Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 155: True Crime Talk: The Murder of Laci Peterson

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

On this month's true crime bonus episode, Kail and Lindsie are once again joined their friend Summer to discuss the murder of Laci Peterson and the trial of her husband Scott. Kail and Lindsie try to understand Summer's opinion on the case, while Summer provides a different perspective on the evidence. They talk circumstantial evidence, convenient alibis, and the trial itself. This episode was sponsored by: Best Fiends, Kencko, Thrive Causemetics, & Gohenry Have a question you want answered? Want to give Kail and Lindsie a call? Leave them a message at ?(609)-316-0060?. Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

Hey guys, welcome to a bonus episode of Coffee Combo's podcast. Hello, Lindsay. Good morning. Happy weekend. What are you doing? I finished my Duncan before we could record because I didn't want to piss anybody off with my eating. You mean Nancy? Nancy.

Nancy Davis with two S's. Hi. I can't. When I saw that on your Instagram story, I was like, okay, Kill would be the person that would pop up the bad reviews on there. So, um, so sorry. That was, that was good and great. But hey, if you guys want to start putting nice reviews on there, then I'll start putting the nice ones on my story and maybe sprinkle a little bad ones in there too, you know, just for a little. For a little judge.

I can't. So what have you been doing this weekend? Anything fun? Um, no, I went to Lincoln had a football game on Friday and then yesterday, uh, luck started his little T ball, um, practices. So we went to that and then, um, Lincoln has a game after this. So once we're done, I'm going to head to the field again. First of all, you never told me that Lux was going to play T ball because I literally would have passed away and come back alive because I would have been so excited. I didn't know his dad told me last minute and I guess his dad's coaching like other kids.

So I was like, um, it's soccer is on the same days, but soccer was canceled yesterday. So it worked out, but I was like, if Lux in baseball cleats and like a little hat, isn't the cutest thing I've ever seen. I don't know what it is. Like it was so cute. It literally, I mean, when I was watching the videos, the only thing I could think of was the sandlot and like. The braids with the hat and the whole confection was something to live for. And I was so excited to see it and him with a bat. I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't, I, I'm literally dying inside of happiness.

Um, okay. So yesterday, let me tell you, and you can relate baseball game at 130 leave baseball field. Go to a two hour fundraiser at Chipotle, leave the two hour fundraiser and go to uniform fittings. And we're at uniform fittings until eight 30 last night. So I'm just like, what do people do when they have children and multiple children and sports on the weekends? It's like our entire day was basically like at the baseball field or about baseball. Yeah. No, that's like all sports.

So I don't even know, um, actually one of my other friends, well, it's Lux's cousins. Um, they have five kids and they for our boys and she was one of them plays with Lincoln. And so we played, I don't even know at what time, like maybe like one and they had a game before for her other son. And then when we were leaving, we're like, Oh, well, like we'll see you next week. And she's like, we're going to head to the other game because her other son played after that. And I was like, wow, the entire day on the field. I mean, it's so exhausting, the level of commitment for our kids. I'm just like, you know, it's something to be proud of.

And I, I also do love it, but it's also exhausting. Sometimes I'm like, wow, we really have nothing else to do in our lives. I guess. So, um, for the next foreseeable future, I guess we'll be doing this. Um, but anyway, yeah, so we're doing fundraisers and all kinds of stuff cause Jackson's playing all stars over the summer. And it costs a lot of money to, um, run an all star team over the summer. And so they were doing like little fundraising events and, um, I'm working with a graphic designer and stuff to do like sweatshirts, t-shirts, tanks and like all that stuff. Oh, that's cute.

So, um, I'm excited for them and they're very excited. And oh my gosh, Kale, they have for all stars, they have actual walk up music. Like they have like where they announced their name and then like walk up music. I am not even kidding. And it is so cute. That's so cute. It's like a total pump up. I get pumped up.

I'm like, Oh wow, this is fun. I hope my kid doesn't have a song that I don't like. Um, but yeah, he also is going to be number 42 for all stars because that's the number will was. So it's just really cute. So anyway, um, moving on from that. Um, and now that we've talked about, um, you not eating your bagel with cream cheese with bacon on it, people were actually sending us DMs about that kill. Um, I didn't know it was that serious. Well, I'm sorry.

I didn't, you know, when Joe Rogan started podcasting, his dogs were barking in the background and it was fine. Well, I'm more concerned, I'm less concerned about you eating on the podcast and more concerned that you put bacon on your bagel. What? What's wrong with that? I don't know. People were writing in and saying that they have never heard of that. And I was like, you know, I would like to say I have heard of it to take up for her, but like, I haven't also. I, I, I don't know, oh, you know what, because I have a friend that told me that he does it and he worked at a Duncan and that's like one of the things that he did and he was like, just try it.

So I did and it was good. And I mean, I don't eat it all the time. And you kept up with it. You kept going. Yeah, I just, yeah, I mean, I don't eat it all the time, but yes, I do like it. I feel like it's a very, um, it's a different combo, you know, it's like a sweet and savory. Yes, exactly that. Yes.

Okay. So last thing I'm going to ask you before we get into this true crime stuff. Um, how's your toenail doing in the acrylic? Like, is it lasting? Can I tell you that when I went, I went to the normal like place that I go and the guy was like, um, I was like, can you, can you put a fake one on there? And he kind of like laughed and he was like, yeah, and then he basically told me that in order for them to look the same, he has to put a fake one on the other toenail as well. Um, and so they look, they look pretty good. Um, they're a little more square than my like natural toenail, but it's holding up pretty well.

I mean, it is sandal season. So I want to be, you know, I want to be, have cute toes. So it's working out. I just, you know, I can't see you in California on our trip with a busted toenail. Right. Like, could you imagine me? Well, did I ever tell you about what happened when I went to Jamaica? No, you never told me this.

Oh my God. That's a conversation for another podcast because it's just a long story. We'll save it for our regular episode this week. So make sure you guys tune into that on Thursday and we will talk about the Jamaican toenail. All right, you guys, we're going to take a really quick break. I want to talk about the game best fiends. I've been playing this for a long time. You've seen me post about it on my Instagram.

I've talked about it on the podcast before and I'm here to remind you about it again. Um, it is free to download. Um, it's like a match three or a casual mobile puzzle game and I literally can't put it down. It's just fun when you're like in a waiting room or kind of just like not really doing anything. The kids are busy. Um, and I'll play the game. Um, there are 1 million downloads and it just fits into your life. So seamlessly, you can just play it at any time.

Best fiends is a top rated mobile puzzle adventure. I'm possibly the best puzzle game if I do say so myself. Um, it's a world of fun, lovable characters, thousands of levels and more content gets added all the time. So if you just started playing, um, there will be more stuff added probably as you're playing the game. And, um, I just love it. I have so much fun. There are literally thousands of levels to play and counting and tons of cute characters to collect. So you never get tired of solving puzzles and the good news is with best fiends, the fun never ends.

Don't blame me if you become slightly obsessed, but you can download best fiends for free today on the Apple app store or Google play. That's best fiends. That's friends without the R best fiends. This week on our true crime bonus episode, we are going to be covering the murder of Lacey Peterson and her unborn son Connor. This took place in 2014 and her husband was sentenced to death by lethal injection. Um, we actually have a returning guest on the podcast today and we're super excited about it. Summer is returning. So welcome summer.

We are so slow summer excited. Hi guys, but also, um, your opinion on this case, we just can't get behind. And so I'm really geeking out to be able to have this conversation with you because honestly, I just want to pick your brain really. Honestly, I followed this case so closely when it was happening in real time. So I, and it's so funny because we were messaging on, um, Instagram last night and I was like, save this for the podcast. I'm not arguing with you and a DM. I need to hear your thoughts in real, like on the phone. My texts with summer were literally the last couple of texts.

I'm going to actually read them right now. Um, I said that, um, there is no possible way that you think he's innocent. And then, um, the other one was, let me see, um, pretty much the same thing. Like just, there's no way that this is true. Like there's no way you could possibly think this. So, um, yeah, should we give a little bit of background information on this? I feel like anyone who's listening to this podcast, um, would know about this case. It was heavily followed in the media.

Um, I think they even compared it to, um, they compared it to the likes of OJ Simpson, um, Michael Jackson. When he was covered, obviously not like true crime, but, um, Martha Stewart. Um, that was all in the documentary that I watched on Hulu. I kind of did a catch up on it last night just as a refresher. And there is a, I think it's a three-part documentary on Hulu called missing in Modesto. Um, and the media just literally covered this so much in summer. Do you feel like, um, because I felt like the documentary was going down, um, an avenue, not that he was innocent, but that the media definitely played a role in this case heavily.

Oh, I definitely think that the media played a role in this case. I think the reason the verdicts came out the way it did was because he was tried by public opinion. And I think that's the reason why you had so many jurors excused from this case because they were biased. Even after the verdict, you had jurors come out and say some really inappropriate things. And yeah, the media was a big part of this case. And it was talking about, um, how, and you do see this and Kale and I have actually previously talked about, um, cases and why we wouldn't want to cover some of them because it's glorifying the murderer. And that kind of was an issue mentally with me with covering this because I know that he's guilty and I don't want to give him any airtime.

But at the same time, I feel like so many of our listeners and us followed this case so heavily that it would just be like weird for us not to cover it. But in the documentary, it was talking about how, you know, 24 seven news is entertainment. And that they, um, the news really looks at a series of things. It's like, um, for, for viewers is the person famous, um, is the person is the story riveting is the person attractive. And in this case, um, Lacey was a very attractive, cute, pregnant woman and her husband was very attractive as well. And that's why they think that the media really just like grabbed on to the story so heavily. And that there's a wall over the holiday with, um, the news and how there was news holes to fill with this being on Christmas Eve. And that, um, basically because the audience had nothing else to watch and this was exciting.

The, the closest thing I can think to this was that, um, this past Christmas was the Nashville bombing all day Christmas day. They played that just over and over. Nothing else was on TV. And so I think that's why this case really, uh, picked up and the media really took hold of it and wanted to follow every aspect of it. Right. Absolutely. And I, I agree with everything you said. And yeah, from the outside looking in Scott and Lacey Peterson looked like the all American couple. Yep. They really did. And nobody, I don't think anyone really like close to them had anything to say about, you know, that they didn't really argue.

They were truly like happy according to people that were around them. Right. Absolutely. Everything that I read and I, I dug through the evidence and the witness statements, you guys, because I need to prove my point that he didn't do this. Um, I don't, I can't get behind that theory. I cannot get behind that theory that he didn't do it. Okay. So where, where do we start with this? Because I feel like I'm going to convince you guys. Okay. I, I think I could be convinced. Honestly, I think I could be convinced with maybe because there was like a little bit of a sliver where I recently rethought about it and was like, maybe he didn't do it. But the thing, the thing for me is that there, aside from, aside from the, the, the robbery across the street, you can't, who else would have done it? There's no motive. Right. And to me, understandable. I can't, I've been pregnant multiple times. I can't imagine taking my dog for a walk at nine months pregnant and going across the street to approach, you know, rob, a robbery, like robbers.

I would not be able to, to do that. It wouldn't be a great idea. And how much circumstantial evidence do we need to connect the dots? We're not dumb. You know what I mean? So I know that there's no direct linking evidence, but I mean, to me, the boat with, with the cement weights was a hook line and sinker for me. Like there's just how much circumstance literally was on the same water that his wife was found in. Like you can't convince. And then you're, you're in Paris when your wife's vigil is going on, like the lies and the, I mean, he's a douchebag, right? Like we know this. So I, I don't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe you could change my mind, but I don't know. I don't know. I do want to let me, let me go ahead. I do want to stay back to both of y'all's point that Lacey's family early on thought that Scott was innocent. And the brother, I believe, was the one that was focusing on the burglary. And he, he really wanted an emphasis put on that. So Kale, I think you were the one that said it. Like nobody thought anything bad. Like they thought highly of them.

And, you know, through the documentary, it was talking about how the baby's room was already ready and how, you know, they were both so excited and such a happy couple. And so I think that early on, they definitely were thinking that it, that was not even a possibility, but we have to remember that he was living a double life. So what they were saying was not the Scott that was with Amber Fry, right? Yeah. Absolutely. So before I really start talking about this case, I want to preface this with, I don't know if either of you remember, but when we were texting over a month ago, and one of you mentioned Lacey Peterson, my response was, I don't think I know that case. And I remember Kale, you were like, what, what, what? And I really must have been living under a rock because I was like, okay, I'll watch the documentary. I'll do my own research. And before I watched the documentary, I had listened to another podcast. And when I first listened to that, I'm thinking he killed his wife. I watched the documentary and I still had questions. But by that last episode, I was like, he didn't do this. And so I started combing through all the evidence and especially read his appellate brief when they appealed his conviction and looked through almost all the 500 pages of that.

And I am convinced that this, that there's no evidence to prove that he killed his wife. I think that going back to what you said, Kale with the circumstantial evidence, like, yes, we're not stupid, but none of it is, he did this 100%. I just, it's hard for me to really look at this and think that this man killed his wife based on the evidence presented and also based on the evidence that the judge would not allow to be presented. So you don't think that he did it? Like, you don't think that he could be convicted based on the evidence, but do you think that he killed his wife and there wasn't enough evidence? I don't think that he killed her. I cannot say 100%. I mean, that's between God and him and if he didn't do it, then the person who did. But I'm 99.9% sure he didn't kill her. And even if I was wavering in that, as far as the evidence goes, there's way more than a reasonable doubt in my mind that if I was on that jury, I could not have convicted this man. Well, see that I don't this this case as far as like the circumstantial evidence reminds me of Casey Anthony with the case there. Yes. Yes. 100%. So I feel like if you think that Casey Anthony is guilty, then you have to think Scott Peterson is also guilty. And I think I can see the argument there and I can see why people think that Scott Peterson killed his wife, but I'm not there. I mean, I think it's hard for me to ignore the evidence that was presented. Let's not even talk about wasn't presented. What was presented? That's hard for me to ignore.

However, in this case, it was very different in the fact that there was no biological or forensic evidence, but the murder didn't happen at the house. So, right. I think there's anything really don't know that the prosecution said in their closing statements, we don't know how the murder occurred, we don't know where the murder occurred or when the murder occurred, but we know that he did it. That's from the prosecution's own mouth. So I don't if you don't know any of those things, how can you say 100% that he's the one that killed her? So the only other people with motive would have been the people committing the robbery across the street. So let's go with that. Okay, so let's say, let's say that that is the argument. Okay, well, you I think in the DM last night, you said that she approached the robbers, and they weren't having it. I can't imagine, like I said earlier on here, I don't I can't imagine being nine months pregnant and approaching something that I had no business doing, I would have just went inside and called the police, you know what I mean? I do understand that 100%. And I think if I was pregnant, I also don't know that I would approach burglars. But let me say this. I've been to Modesto, California, my sister lives 15 minutes away from there. One of my best friends lives in Modesto, Lacey Peters Peterson was actually his substitute teacher once upon a time.

And that town is riddled with crime. So maybe it was something that she was used to seeing maybe she had a different feeling about it. Is there I mean there's was there eyewitnesses saying that she approached them or where did that theory come from because I don't think I've read that anywhere. And so I think that mostly that was the defense's point of view that at the time she had allegedly come up missing that this robbery was taking place. And there was a witness, someone who drove through the neighborhood and and this person never testified and maybe because if on cross examination, they probably wouldn't have been able to say 100% what time this occurred. They did see a woman, a woman approach two men outside of a van outside of a home. But is that not circumstantial evidence to it is but then you also have the one of the men who was arrested for the burglary. His first statement to the police is yeah I burglarized that house but I had nothing to do with the pregnant woman. You have the recorded phone call between one of the guys who was involved to his brother, and they were saying that Lacey approached them.

I mean again it's circumstantial because that tape of that recorded phone call went missing, suspiciously. But there were some accounts that she had approached them. But that's all circumstantial to supports 100% it is and I mean if you take out those burglars from that situation, then who else like you said who else would have had the motive but I think that they they were responsible. But okay so even if we went we went with that theory. It was just how Scott was acting he died his hair he tried to flee he like there's just so many things that I just don't someone who's guilty. I don't know I've been I've been through court before I've had to testify before I've you know what I mean and so I just feel like if I have nothing to hide I'm not going to do those things. Right. So the notion that Scott was trying to flee.

I this is something else that I was reading in the appellate brief. And I think it was touched on in the documentary as well. It was. Yeah, it looks suspicious that he died his hair, but he was down in San Diego with his parents. And he was trying to have some sense of normalcy so he died his hair and was wearing sunglasses because of the media no one in that area. Yeah, the hopes that no one would recognize him in that area because Modesto's in Northern California and San Diego's way at the southern part of California so he was hoping that no one would recognize him which is understandable. Was there some shady things in this case after Lacey disappeared for sure the whole amber fry thing like you said makes him a scumbag but I don't think that any of that makes him a murderer. Okay, but what does make him a murderer to me is on December the 9th before Lacey goes missing.

Scott and Amber have a phone conversation where he emotional. He is very emotional. Prior to December 9th, he was seeing amber under the guise of he was not a married man. Lacey basically didn't exist whatsoever. He was just like this single guy. And then on December 9th, he emotionally tells her that he is very upset because this is going to be the first holidays that he is spending with out his wife that passed away. So you cannot convince me from that. That is, you want to talk about circumstantial coincidental. There is no way that he had that conversation with her. All of this happens to Lacey and he didn't do it. Right.

He didn't do it. He knows who the fuck did. Well, and that it reminds me of the Chris Watts case too, because it's just like you think about, okay, he's married. He's living this double life. He's about to have a child. Maybe he doesn't want to live this life. He wants to go back to carefree, you know, and he's just too much of a coward. Coward. That's a better word than I was going to use to cut it off with her. Bastard. Yeah, I mean, all the names under the sun, really, he couldn't just cut it off with her. I can't get behind the robbery thing. I think when they interviewed him and that tape supposedly went missing, was that before or after the media caught wind of it? Because we don't really know the timeline on that either. If he was arrested and he says, oh, we had nothing to do with it, well, the media could have already had that out in the, you know what I mean?

So they could have just been like, oh, we didn't do it. Right. Which makes sense. I mean, the media picked up on this case, you know, the day after he reported her. So, of course, I think that that person who was arrested in the burglary had already heard about it. Right. But I mean, when you go back to obviously the thing he said to Amber Fry, I mean, yeah, that's suspicious to me. I'm not going to discount that at all. But Amber Fry had a young daughter. Are you telling me that Scott killed his wife? Because he didn't want to be a dad to go be with this woman who he had known for less than a month to then be with this woman and try and raise her daughter? That doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think that maybe he really thought that far. It's like love bombing. In the beginning, it's all great and everything like that, but he wouldn't have had any biological ties to Amber Fry's daughter and he could leave her at any time. They weren't married. So I feel like he liked the thrill and like the newness and that honeymoon stage. And so it's easy to say, you know, he could have gone and been with her, but he didn't have any real biological connection to the daughter. Did he ever meet her? I can't remember what the documentary said. He did meet her. From the evidence that I looked at, he had met the daughter at least on one occasion. I think he had only spent time with Amber on five or six occasions. So it's not like they had gone out in several dates over that course of the month that they had known each other. And I will say this, another thing playing up to your guys' opinion is that he did spend a night at Amber's house while they were seeing each other. So again, total scumbag, suspicious in that sense. And I get how what he said could make him look really suspicious. Like you say this and then it ends up happening. But when we're talking about Amber Fry and how when he was unaware that she knew everything that was going on,

why would he then come and admit to her like, listen, I lied to you. This is what's really been going on. I'm still married, but my wife has been missing. I think it was an out of someone just openly say that it was an out of control emotional reaction that he had that he felt like, okay, he's busted and doing this and it's damage control. Like, yes, exactly. And he doesn't want to lose Amber too, because what he did was ultimately to be with her and basically have a clean break without being a total public scumbag with Lacey, her family and everyone else that they personally know that he's walked away from his eight month pregnant wife. And he's going to go and be with this other woman. It's like Kale saying it's a love bombing situation that I don't think that he was rationally thinking I think it was, I don't want to be in this. The way that this woman makes me feel is exciting and riveting and I want to be with her and I'm going to try to get rid of this situation as fast as I possibly can before the baby's born so that I don't have any ties and I can move on with my life. Yeah, I'm 100% there. I think that that's a possibility. But again, I just don't know if there's enough there to really convince me that that's the case. Okay, so you so you you don't you're not 100% set that he didn't do it but okay so I could see why maybe he shouldn't have been convicted because there wasn't enough evidence on either side so that nobody would have been convicted and it was what like an unsolved mystery kind of thing.

That's the biggest point for me like I said I'm 99% sure he didn't do it but if you take that out of it and if I was on that jury I wouldn't have convicted him right because a jury is not to decide if you're guilty or innocent it's guilty or not guilty and that comes by way of the evidence. I mean if he killed his wife when did he do it when did he have the time to do it because the timeline to me. I don't see where he would have had the time to kill her hide her in his truck put her on the boat take her to the marina. His story checks out he never changed his story with police not one time and he was lucky in the sense that there was enough proof that matched his timeline and his story of events. Alright guys we're going to take a quick break to chat about one of our partners Kenco if you are looking for a little help in the healthy eating department you guys should check out Kenco I've talked about how much Jackson absolutely loves them and I take these smoothies on the go all the time. For those of you who have never heard of Kenco Kenco makes seriously nutritious smoothies for seriously busy people expensive store bought smoothies are sugar packed calorie bombs and fresh pressed juices have way less fiber we have all fallen into the trap of going into the grocery store buying the sugar packed calorie bombs thinking that we're doing something healthy when really we're not Kenco's breakfast smoothies are only made from organic whole fruits and vegetables flash frozen and slow dried to lock in all of the fiber and nutrients nothing added and no fiber taken out Kenco smoothies are easy to make which is one of my favorite parts it requires no blender juicer or kitchen needed you just pour the Kenco packet into water or your favorite milk we use almond milk shake it up and take on your day. You can go to Kenco.com take their quick nutrition quiz and fill your flexible monthly order with your choice of 15 functional flavors that match your goals and taste and each Kenco smoothie costs less than three bucks impacts half the daily fruits and vegetables that you need to reduce the risk of type two diabetes heart disease and some

cancers like I said these are so easy I make these in the morning for Jackson he sometimes takes them on the ride to school and I often take them on my ride to the gym and if you guys would like to try them you can start creating healthy habits right now go to Kenco.com slash combos and pick out your flexible monthly plan and the first 100 listeners will get 25% off your first order that's Kenco.com slash combos and get 25% off but only if you're one of the first 100 you love our show and we love you so get this special deal 25% off for the first 100 listeners at Kenco.com slash combos. Alright you guys I want to talk about cosmetics really quickly over the weekend I was talking about how I always get advice from my friends for cosmetic products because I'm just like not super good at it but Lindsay actually told me about thrive cosmetics a while back and then I started using them and then now I'm going to tell you about them on the podcast thrive cosmetics products are made with clean high performance skin loving ingredients they have clinically proven formulas not only that highlight your best features but they also improve your skin over time so as you know I've struggled with skin issues all throughout the years and I love this because all thrive cosmetic products are formulated without parabens sulfates or phthalates so thrive cosmetics never test on animals which is a huge deal for me they're and pita certified as 100% vegan and cruelty free which is absolutely amazing thrive cosmetics has a bold mission that's truly bigger than beauty so for every product purchase thrive cosmetics donates to help women thrive some examples of that are emerging from homelessness women is surviving domestic abuse fighting cancer and so much more so one of their best selling products and one of the things that I love is their liquid lash extensions mascara it is one of their best selling products and I also love their brilliant

products and I love them and Lindsay and I both have and that is another top seller and I did get the bright balance 3-in-1 cleanser just to try it I loved it and so I think these are really good for like gifts to like I know some of us are just have all the products that we need and then we fall in love with the ones that we really really like and then we want to share them right so if you know someone that has a birthday I know Mother's Day is coming up that would be a great gift is thrive cosmetics so I also did get the liquid balm lip balm treatment so if you guys are interested in that I'm big on lip balms I love them again thrive cosmetics bigger than beauty mission for every product purchase their commitment to support nonprofit partners with a donation of funds or products is truly unique and inspiring so support the cause definitely go check them out I love everything about thrive cosmetics their products are the best I've used their bigger than beauty mission is awesome I love it and you're going to love them as much as I do and as much as Lindsay does if you guys visit thrive cosmetics.com you'll get 15% off your first order this is an exclusive offer that you can only get here so that's thrive cause C A U S E medics.com slash combos for 15% off your first order thrive cosmetics.com slash combos. Let's go over his timeline. Okay, let me I'm gonna where do we start like the morning of Christmas Eve. Yes, because I have it I have it all in front of you guys. I'm going to pull it up to that. Okay, so I know that he leaves the house I don't know hours so summer when you get to that you can let me know but I know that he the timeline was he leaves the house he goes to the warehouse. He checks and sends emails. He picks the boat up. He then goes to the lake and then he returns to the warehouse.

Great. So he left his house around 930 to 10am. And he was at the warehouse by 1030 because they have him, you know, on his computer, they have the activity and he was active on his computer from 1030 to 1056am. Okay, and for about 20 minutes after that, he was not on the computer. But this is when he claimed he was putting together that woodworking machine. And the evidence showed he had received that woodworking machine on the 20th to his warehouse. And when it was investigated, the instructions for the machine were laid out. The machine was put together. So I think that we could reasonably infer that it took him 20 minutes to put this machine together. Because then a few minutes after that, he was back on the computer before he left at 1118am to go to the marina. His boat, by the way, is at that warehouse and that's where he trailered up and went to the marina. Yeah, I remember that. And the time it takes for him to leave the warehouse and get to the marina, it took him an hour and 36 minutes. And at that time, Yahoo Maps said it takes exactly an hour and 36 minutes. So he didn't stop along the way. I mean, are you telling me that in 20 minutes he loaded his boat up, put her body, or maybe she was still in the truck? I guess that's what people were saying. I don't know. It just to me, I just don't think there leaves any time for error. And if I've just murdered someone, I don't think that you're fitting an exact schedule of the events of the same person who says they didn't murder. I don't know. To me, the time is just not there.

Times there for me. Yeah, it's there for me. I think there's something that's not adding up for me. So I just feel like maybe that things were done. I'm trying to find the actual timeline on the computer. I wish I could have an actual line with what is what, but I can't find that. Peter, Sid McCall talking with his son. Oh, sorry, this was his neighbors who say that they saw her walking the dog after 10am. We knew that he had been gone by 10am. He left the house by 10am. But these people didn't. What about all these neighbors who saw her? Yeah, but they didn't. None of them were confirmed. None of them were confirmed. And these people were going off of rough guesstimate because it wasn't like it was a ring camera or something like that where it would have shown her walking by with a time stamp. I mean, I could say, I mean, if the police came to my house, God forbid something happened. And they knocked on my door and was like, Hey, did you see this person wearing a brown vest? And I would be like, Yeah, I saw them. It might have been around like 12 or one o'clock, but really it might have been at like 10. Right. I don't know. Absolutely. And who's to say totally his what who's to say that Scott didn't like come like get her while she was walking. Do you know what I'm saying?

Correct. Correct. I could. So I understand the whole thing with the witnesses, but there were none of the witnesses who saw her testified because for the reason you just said Lindsay, like you might think that it's 10am, but it could have been 9am. I mean, there's not an exact time as an eyewitness. You can unless you were looking at your watch and have proof right a screenshot a camera or something. No one could say for sure. But there were reports of 24 witnesses within a one mile radius of her home that saw her. And even if there's not an exact time 24 witnesses. I mean, you could be able to infer at some point that some of their stories match up if they're all saying between 10 and 1030, then you have to assume that it's between 10 and 1030. Okay, who's to say, okay, what if he I'm never going to agree. So let's just say that. But who's to say that this psychopath did not tell her to like take the dog for a walk so that people would see her. Then say something to her about like, Hey, do you want to go, you know, to the warehouse with me or do you want to go do this with me, or whatever and she willfully got in the car.

This is true. But what about with the dog? That's the only thing the dog. And then you have the one neighbor who swears up and down at exactly 1018. She finds the dog sees the gate is open puts the dog in the backyard and closes the gate. That's that woman's testimony. Right. But then you have the male man who the defense never got this piece of information because I guess this paper stuck to another paper when they scanned it in the prosecution scanned it into the defense. The male man that day is very familiar with that neighborhood says that this dog barks at him all the time. But when he goes to deliver the Peterson's mail, the dog is not barking. So he doesn't think that the dog is there and the gate is still open. Well, they scan like they have a time sheet that they scan so they have a reference of what time they're on each street.

And let me see. I have it here somewhere. The mailman said that between 1035 and 1050 was when he delivered the Peterson's mail. So if that woman who allegedly put the dog back at 1018 and closed the gate. How was it possible that after that fact, the gate was still open because the mailman his time was clocked. So at 1035. That sounds like it's still out there. But Scott had been gone by today and so you have at least 35 minutes where at some point Lacey was out with the dog. And maybe maybe you're right. Maybe he picked up Lacey and the dog still continued to roam.

But what's the more likelihood here that she was out with the dog. Who's to say that she didn't get in the car. He told Lacey he put the dog in the fence. He didn't close it and they left and the dog was roaming. Like I think we're definitely under playing the fact that this man was living a complete double life. And had already said on December the 9th that his wife was dead like she passed away. That's not a coincidence. Right. Like he knew this was premeditated. This was premeditated. And I mean evidence or no evidence. He did it in my head. That's how I feel. I don't I don't care what timelines the neighbors have like Lindsay said there.

And because I watch so much murder cases like I probably crazily like if I see something like see someone walking like I really do pay attention to like what they look like and stuff and I'll even look at the time because if in the event that something were to happen and I have like OK I know exactly what time where I was blah blah blah. But to that point you can you can be off if you're not looking at a clock. Right. So even if everyone saw her walking no matter who put the dog in the gate at the end of the day. He already said that she was dead is living a double life. I think the manner in which she was murdered was I don't think the robbers are going to take that amount of time. Me either to do that. Like I as sad as it is like I could think like maybe they would shoot her and kind of wash their hands of it. But like to actually go through all of this. And I'm sure they didn't have a boat if they're robbing people. They don't have a boat. So how are they going to get her body out there. So here's the thing. How do we know they didn't have. Well we don't. I guess we don't. But he did. And he also had the cement weights that he made. You're going to. So it's like. So the thing with the cement weights for me. I looked at that photo very carefully of where the markings were on his trailer and it's a pile of dust.

I mean could it have been the concrete from the cement like the dry powder. It could have been. But to me I don't. There was too much circumstantial evidence. I don't know. And he also still had a pile of dust in his yard from the cement where he made the one weight that was found on his boat. Where he admitted yeah I made this weight and it's here. Right. They never found these alleged weights tied to Lacey's body. You know her. They never found her head. It was pretty much just her torso. So they don't know the manner of death. What if these burglars did kill her and they did shoot her. Well and they had access to a boat and and the whole world knew his alibi. Well the whole world here. Here's the thing. He didn't kill her. They knew how to pierce his alibi. I think because it was so premeditated. He had been thinking about this for a very long time. Just that one December the ninth call tells you that this had been going on in his mind for quite some time. And again I think he literally knew that he was going to have to have an alibi. He knew that he was going to have to have a story.

He covered all of his tracks. He called his wife from the marina when he was leaving knowing that she wasn't going to pick up. He went home. The dog and the leash were there. Lacey was gone before he did anything. He didn't start looking for his wife. Nothing. He washed his clothes. He eats then he calls and checks with Lacey's mom. So there is no he knew exactly right. And that's why he had the alibi of what he was doing. He was doing his computer work all of that because he knew that he needed to have a solid alibi with evidence. Being active on a computer can you just send an email or two or you know what I mean. I don't know. I feel like this was definitely premeditated. There's too much circumstance. Not like a fingerprint at the crime scene and you can't convict someone on a fingerprint. I don't know. I just feel like it's so much circumstantial evidence and there seems to be an extra explanation for every single thing. And I just I'm not buying it. I'm not buying it.

So you're telling me this is what I don't understand that he had this plan and he's so good at making everything match up. But he puts her body in the one place where his alibi is. That doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me. There is no D. There's no blood. There's I don't think he did it at the house. I don't either think he did it at the house because there would have been so much of a mess and the neighbors would have like seen him doing suspicious things. Like I really think he picked her up somehow some way from the walk that she was on from with the dog. Me too. That's what I think happened to. So if if again if that's the case so then you're saying that he had to have killed her at the warehouse because that's the only place it could have happened. There is only a 20 minute time frame where he could have killed her wrapped up her body. By the way, I did find this in the brief to I don't know if this was talked about in the documentary. His where this warehouse is there's nowhere for him to pull the truck in.

So even if it was just a matter of a few feet and he killed her in the warehouse he would have had to have taken her body out in the daylight to put her in the truck with the boat. Yeah, so the boat. I think he like can back up to that but there's still a few feet of outside open area where people would have seen him with a body. If he did it at the warehouse. But again in the 20 minutes that he was inactive on his computer his story matches up that he was putting this machine together. The amount of time it takes him to load up the boat and drive to the marina all that timing checks out well since he was so calculated with the relationship with Amber. I'm convinced that he would be calculated with creating an alibi to kill his wife that he was trying to get rid of so that he could live that other life. And the amount of cooperation and then his just complete aloofness if that is a word says everything to me then the fact that he basically he one wouldn't speak at her vigil but then he was acting like he was in Paris with foreigners to Amber and talking to her like at his wife is his deceased wife's candlelight vigil. Like this is a person that to me that says everything about his character that he is completely emotionally disconnected from her and could do anything to her path. Yes. Alright guys we're going to take a quick break to chat about one of our newest partners go Henry for those of you who are not familiar with go Henry it is a kids debit card and app.

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Well, we forgot to cover the fact that on this website that Lindsay sent me last night. Lacey had never seen the boat while she was alive and they found her hair on a pair of pliers that were on the boat. Let's let's talk about that. The one of the forensic investigators who testified for the prosecution admitted that those pliers were so rusted over that there's no way that they could have been used like around the time frame that she was gone and again it's one hair and a piece of pliers. Also, two days before Lacey went missing, there is a witness who tells the investigators that he saw Lacey at the warehouse two days before she went missing. And that officer admitted to leaving that part out of his investigative report because it didn't match their theory that she had never been to the warehouse. Oh, I didn't know that she had never been to the warehouse. I thought it was just that he kept his boat. So she had been there two days prior. She definitely had been near that boat. But what was she in the warehouse? Do we have a picture of the warehouse because I don't know. I never found anything of like the exact size of it to me based on like the one picture I saw of the boat backed in there and like a work table. It didn't seem to be very big in my mind. I'm picturing it to be more like closer to the size of like a storage unit type, you know, like big enough to put a computer in a workstation, but not huge.

I would probably estimate that it was maybe 300 square feet less than that. But there was nothing that I found that gave us an exact. Was there any explanation as to why she was at the warehouse two days prior? No, because the only information that we have was that witness saying that he did see her there. To me, that just sounds like another aspect of Scott's premeditation. Yeah. Like he would have had her there and then maybe told her that they were going to go out on the boat or they were going to go do something there. So that he didn't have to kill her prior to going there. I really think that is a.

I mean, there's a possibility, but. Explain the bleach smell in the home. He says that he that there was like a bucket and some mops and he had like put the water out. I don't know. But again, there was never any. There was no blood evidence. There was no sign of a struggle. Because there was a one. I mean, exactly. So why would the bleach even come into play if we think that the murder didn't occur in the house? His clothes, clothes on to the carpet. I think he was being extra careful.

Yeah. He had just come from fishing. I used to fish a lot with my parents as a child. And the first thing we did when we were done fishing is we would go into our hotel room. We would take a shower and change our clothes. So that's what we think that Scott did. Exactly. Because he had just come from fishing. I don't think that he took a shower and changed his clothes because he was dirty from a murder.

I think he had done that because he had just been fishing for a few hours. You're going to tell me that I guess it could go either way. It could go either way, but you're going to tell me summer. You're going to tell me that he went through all that work to go get the freaking bow and do all of that. And then he just went out for 90 minutes and then drove it back an hour or however long they said it took him to get back. He was on the boat less time than it took him to do all of the stuff to get out on the water. Absolutely. Because just from me and my own personal experience when I'm fishing, if I'm out there 20, 30, 45 minutes and I'm getting no bites, nothing's happening.

If it's windy, if the water's choppy and I'm just not having success, this is no fun. I want to go home. No, he did what he needed to do. He created an alibi for himself and then he got back on the road. If he threw her off that tiny little fishing boat, how does he do that without flipping the boat over? He could have flipped it over. Who's to say he didn't? There would have been evidence of that. I mean, the boat would have, flipping a boat over, there was no way that if it flipped over that he was going to be able by himself to then flip it back over.

I mean, yes, it was a small fishing boat, but I flipped over a kayak once and I couldn't even get that back over by myself. Like a one person tiny kayak, I couldn't even get that back over. So I don't think that this man flips over a boat with this big engine on the end. And I think if he flipped it over that there would have been water damage to that engine. Not a forensic expert don't know, but there would have been, I don't know, a struggle. It would have taken a lot longer than 90 minutes to flip a boat over and flip it back over. And the fact that the judge wouldn't allow the evidence of the people who tried to reenact that where every single time they tried it, they flipped the boat over. I don't know. I just, I think if a jury would have seen that evidence, the outcome could have been different.

I think the bottom line for me is he still did it. I still think he did it, but I don't think to your point, Summer, I don't think that there was evidence to convict him. So if Casey Anthony got off, OJ Simpson got off, you know, but letting the evidence speak, I don't know that Scott should have been convicted on circumstantial evidence, but I still think he did it. I can totally understand why people think he did it. I polled my friends on Instagram and everyone who answered 100% of them say that he did it. Yeah, I did the same. I totally understand people's point of view. I can understand it. But for me, and I guess maybe this is just where I differ from a lot of people, because like I said, I didn't know about this case two months ago. So I really came into this with a very different opinion, right? Like an open opinion. I was objective. And in the beginning, I thought, oh, I think that this guy did it. But the more I saw and the more I researched, and it for me, it comes back to the evidence. It's all circumstantial. But there, in my opinion, is more evidence showing that he didn't do it versus evidence showing that he did. Did you ever take a, I don't know if I,

The polygraph, If this was covered, the polygraph, right? Yeah, they actually, He refused to take one. Well, not initially. Initially, when he was asked by the investigator, or whatever, he said that he would be willing to do it. But then he backtracked from that. And then that's when he was trying to do damage control with his legal counsel publicly, because they were saying at that point, because he wouldn't, then he was being, he wasn't being cooperative with law enforcement. And he wanted it to be publicly known that he was being cooperative. But I will say that in a recorded call from, I think it might have been from the jail that Scott had had, that he claims that he had overheard an officer that said that the, that the husband was suspect like very early on. And so, I think that he, everything to me says he did it, his body language, the pre pre meditated thoughts that he had had to discuss with Amber, all of those things and just the way that he kind of, to me,

the things that he did seem so pre meditated track covering to me that he almost had an alibi for absolutely everything. Right. It just doesn't, it doesn't add up. What about, what about a theory that he had someone like he had an alibi completely airtight sealed locked in? Who's to say he didn't have someone do it for him to like, Okay, I'm going to be here at this time with this, this, this, this and this, she's going to take the dog for a walk at this time. I know she'll be walking the neighbors will see her. I'll have this alibi over here, and you'll do this that in the third over there. Like, I don't know. I feel like, if you're not willing to take an, I've taken a lie detector test, I think on, I think I've only taken one. I was telling the truth, and I was so, it was so scary, but and I thought, oh my gosh, like they all they're asking me is what day is today and I'm saying they said is today Tuesday and my heart is beating out of the chest, my chest, like I know that this is going to come out wrong, but there's ways for them to tell, you know, even with that fluctuation of like being nervous, how to tell if you're lying, I just I feel like for me, if I swear I did not do a murder and I didn't murder my partner,

I'm taking the fucking lie detector test. Me too. Because I have nothing to hide. I mean, I can understand that if anyone ever asked to give me a lie detector test personally, I'm not taking one. Number one, they're not admissible in court and number two, they're not admissible for the fact that they cannot conclusively prove whether or not you're being deceptive. Right, it's just this machine that monitors certain rhythms, your heart rate, whether or not you're sweating. I mean, if someone was accusing me of killing someone else, even if I didn't do it, I'm going to be nervous. And it could come out that I'm that I looked deceptive. So I will never take a lie detector test. Based on my experience taking one, I feel like, even though I was so nervous, it was still able to tell that I was telling the truth. Do you get what I mean? So I think based on my experience taking one, I would take one even though I, you know, because if my story matches up, everything is airtight and I take a lie detector test on top of it. It may not be admissible in court, but at least I know it's going to go in my favor. Do you know what I mean? Because I know that even through the nerves and through whatever, it's still going to back me up. Like they, I sometimes I wonder like how they're not admissible in court because I feel like then what's the who what's the point of them?

It's because people there, it's been shown before that people can lie right and get away with it and you have to be a special kind of person deceptive. I mean, usually those are those like psycho people. Yeah, like a sociopath. Right. But because they're, you can't prove one way or the other with them, I think that that's why they're not admissible because they can vary in so many ways. I don't know. I don't know. I probably wouldn't have taken a lie detector test either. Honestly, Lindsay, we should take lie detector tests for the podcast. Yes, we definitely should. But I want to go back to the point of summer saying that she wasn't really familiar with this case and how it's allowed her to

have a different perspective on it because she didn't, you know, watch the stuff real time. I think I was in seventh grade maybe so a middle school girl and was following this. It was all over the news and like it was really the only thing that was being covered that was of interest to me at that time. And so I did watch all of that and it was, you know, moment by moment coverage and in the documentary actually it was talking about how the moment by moment coverage can be a train wreck for the family of a victim because it's just like a high all the time. Like with the media, you're in interviews, you're, you know, you're doing all of these things. And I just do think that the media played some part in this because again, they take the the whole aspect out there, they're entertaining people right and so they want that moment by moment coverage for the viewership and sadly, in cases like this, it's just really, really sad that there's a woman victim that was pregnant with eight months pregnant and you have this monster man that is getting all of this coverage and the family is literally pleading on TV with, you know, what was it $500,000 reward for her return and all of these things and I do agree that the media, you know, did play it apart. Yeah, apart. But in the same sense, I don't think that the majority of people some are you're literally the only person I've ever had a conversation with about this case that thinks that he didn't do it and I don't know if that's the legal side of you talking because you're looking at it from a completely

different way like Kale said early on, maybe not enough evidence to convict him. But is he guilty? Fucking yes, he is. Yeah, same as Casey Anthony. I don't know. I just I think, based on the reactions that I've seen to in like interviews and the court hearings and everything, he doesn't ever, to me, present to me as a grieving husband either and so that puts up my red flags with all the therapy that I've done right like there's no motion and he raises red flags for anybody. So is he so is he without the without the emotion and and and all of that. I mean, even someone that would have done it could have put on a better show than than what you know what I mean like if we knew for a fact that someone did it they could cry and be emotional and and and all of that and he just never did like he never I think they even talked about in the documentary and one of the documentaries I watched that he really didn't even help in the search for her. Yeah, actually, I saw that as well. It was talking about how he didn't seem interested in the investigation as other people in that situation. Well, other people in that same situation historically like Scott just didn't match the, you know, like other people that he just didn't seem interested at all people were searching calling I think it said that there was over to 850 leads within like a 24 hour period or something. Yes. And then there was so much love and closeness and that community and Scott was It didn't come from him. Yeah, and he was just like completely aloof and then another thing that we have to talk about before we go was just that in the documentary they were talking about how really they needed to prove the case against Scott like the media wanted to prove the case against Scott so they started digging into his college years and there was a woman that went missing and her disappearance was never solved and they talked about him possibly being like a Ted Bundy and like he was linked to this woman so

I mean, has he had he done it before Lacey and like got away with it and was that why he was so smooth. In regard to that woman though they ended up I mean the evidence in that case. There was no way that Scott could have done that I know it talked about it a little bit in the documentary and I read something. The other day something similar about how that they had suspects, they just have never been able to arrest the suspects for that girl's murder, but the evidence against those suspects is a lot more concrete than just the fact that Scott went to the same school as her. But I want to touch on something too. Before it like leaves my mind going back to why I think the burglars did like they were the one that killed her. Lacey had this really expensive croton watch that she inherited from her grandmother and it was never found after she disappeared. But on December 31 of that year that watch was ponded upon shop. And if Scott was at her vigil and with her family that day, it couldn't have been him and who else would have done that. Like that's a huge piece of evidence to me that I'm like okay, if burglars killed her and took her watch and pond it because that's what they do is burglars they're out for money. I don't know to me that's the biggest piece of like exculpatory evidence.

You said that it appeared in the pawn shop when on December 31 the day of her vigil. So who's to say he didn't do it before that same day. Yeah, it was pond on the 31st or first thing in the morning, or maybe it was pond the 30th and they put it clean it up and put it out on the 31st with all that media coverage that was happening. Someone would have followed that man or seen that man at a pawn shop. I mean that's that's one of the biggest exculpatory pieces of evidence that you don't hear about. Wait, isn't can can we just talk about currently I mean that is suspect I'll give you that but yeah I mean still that's not enough to change my mind on anything. Can we talk about like where he is today what's coming for him. I know that we talked about previously on another episode about how he gets like love letters and jail and stuff and I just think that's insane what kind of women could send letters to a man.

That killed his that lived it not not only just lived a double life but like was convicted of killing his wife and his unborn son. What would this goes back to like the media and our our as consumers of the media but also as all of us are so obsessed with true crime. I feel like these women are notification. Yes, it's like Chris Watts and I don't know I don't I don't understand it. I think for me like we've talked about me writing to inmates all the time and you know I got a letter from someone who is convicted of murder. There's a curiosity element I don't have I don't want to you know be in a relationship or send love letters. I just want to know the psychology behind it like I want to pick their brain but to take it to the level of like actual love letters to a potential murderer is not something that I can really wrap my head around me either. I think it's a thrill. Interesting yeah there are interesting people out there whose minds work in ways that I'll never understand and I mean because we see that here. There were women who wrote love letters to the night stalker people who showed up at his trial like saying how much they left him like this crazy psychos killer.

You know I mean women who are interested in murderers I don't know is there a complex out there for them. That's a whole nother level of crazy for me. Yeah, agreed. Is he is Scott like and a part of an appeals process currently like isn't he going back. I thought you're getting retried. Yes, so there is a new trial that has been granted I don't think the date has been set because of COVID it was supposed to be last year and they've changed the date. He's being retried as to the sentencing part the state has not determined whether or not they will retry the guilt part of the case. And the reason that these new trials were granted was based on that 500 page brief that I spent too much time reading last week. Partially because of the evidence but mostly because of the issues with the jury. Okay, well what do they think that enough time has passed for them to get new jurors because everyone knows this case.

I don't think it has to do as much with knowing the case is the fact that jurors were just committing juror misconduct right they were talking about the case outside of the courtroom. What's weird to me is the fact that they didn't sequester these jurors I mean OJ Simpson happened at the same state and they sequestered those jurors for eight months. The Scott Peterson trial was what three or four months long, and they didn't sequester those jurors. Maybe they didn't have this trial. Maybe they didn't realize that it was going to be as covered as it was because I always wonder this to like. I think Lindsay and I have discussed it before like, how does the media decide what what cases get so blown up and so covered so highly tracked like I'm just curious to know that it was talking about that on the documentary and how in this case, it was more of a timing thing like it happening on Christmas Eve that that's why this case got so blown up and people just latched on to it because you know it's think about the facts that Modesto California seemingly picture perfect life. Right.

She's so beautiful. She's beautiful. Totally. That was this situation you're talking about OJ Simpson that's more of like a celebrity type situation and that's why it gets the coverage but in this case, it was just different. It's been, it'll be 20 years next year. Which is insane. Like this was like I feel like it's still so new like I still feel like I follow and I was young I was I was probably in middle school when this was going on and I followed it like I remember like my mom had it on the TV or something like I remember the house and it being on and it was just so shocking and devastating and and there wasn't a big situation for social media at the time but it was still so highly covered.

Kale, you were in fifth grade. I think I was in seventh when this was going on. So I think you would have been fifth. Okay, so yeah. And yeah, I mean, obviously as a, you know, preteen girl, you're watching the news around Christmas time. You're on Christmas break and you see, you know, this beautiful woman like I just remember thinking she was so beautiful and like how. Yes, I thought that to her. And it was just insane to me. I mean, I'm not going to say that the media definitely didn't play. I think in any cases like this, the media definitely has a role that they play in an aspect that it just adds to the case that kind of blurs lines for things. But again, I'm going to end on this that no way that he didn't do it. I hope that everything goes exactly the same way that through his appeals process. I hope everything goes exactly the same way as it did in court for him. The first time he is guilty. He killed her. He's a scumbag. He lived a double life. He sucks. He sucks.

Yes. He's a scumbag, but I need to know what after hearing all of this and hearing summer's perspective on this, I want to know what our listeners think. Me too. I think this is going to be such an interesting drop and I can't wait to see the comments. Honestly, because I'm so the level of investment that I have in this case is probably, you know, maybe toxic to my life. But anyhow, well, we hope that you guys enjoyed this bonus episode of coffee combos. We hope that you guys have a great week. If you have not subscribed to us, make sure you do that on the purple podcast app or Spotify or any other podcast app that you choose to listen from and follow us on at coffee combos podcast on Instagram. We hope you all have a fantastic week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya.