Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 165: Friendship Struggles, Trauma and Decisions, and Relationship Judgments

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

Friendships can be difficult for everyone, but they can be especially hard when you have a big following. It can be hard to know who to trust and who is there for the right reasons. Kail and Lindsie open up about their personal struggles with friendships in the past. Plus, following up from a few episodes ago, Lindsie and Kail revisit the Demi Lovato documentary Dancing with the Devil. They share their thoughts on the second episode, and talk about how trauma can have an impact on decision making. And with so many celebrity break-ups in the news lately, Lindsie and Kail discuss how the public passes judgment on celebrities relationships. This episode was sponsored by: Function of Beauty, Thrive Causemetics, Gravity Blankets, & Credit Karma Have a question you want answered? Want to give Kail and Lindsie a call? Leave them a message at ?(609)-316-0060?. Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

All right, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Coffee Combo's podcast. Lindsay, how are we feeling today? Well, oh my gosh. This morning, I woke up to a text from you, a text from Katie, a text from my assistant, a text from Will. And I was like, okay, this is like setting the tone for the day. And all the texts like honestly weren't really like great, you know, right? Like none of them were great news. So it's like, okay, this is how this Wednesday is going to go. So happy hump day. And guess we're just going to hump our way through it.

We're going to hump our way through it. Yesterday, an episode of Teen Mom 2 aired, and I was back at it in the season. Next week, I thought it was this week, but it's next week, I guess, that we it's our episode where we discuss like my diagnosis and stuff. So that'll be good for us to like, I hope that people resonate with it. I hope people understand. I hope people are kinder, not just to me, but in general, I hope that everyone like kind of the takeaway from it is that truly everyone is fighting in a battle that you don't know anything about. So, um, or they could be. So I just wanted to say that really quickly on here.

I actually was watching Leah's Instagram story yesterday. She did like a Q&A or whatever. And one of the things was talking about people attacking the girls, just really any girls that are part of your franchise and, um, you know, people tune in and it's sometimes just like disheartening to see the amount of hate that happens. And people coming from a place of like not understanding, but like strictly judgment. And it's like, I, I can't imagine just because I haven't been judged like that. And I don't know if it's just because I was on a show that the platform was just so different. Um, that I think that some of y'all stuff is just, um, I know you've talked about it before, like sometimes like it's just in the

moment when it happens and you film it and then you regret it. And then, you know, it's like your real life. And so it just sucks. Sometimes I, to that point, there was, um, there's just been so like, I've already filmed like some really humiliating things. Um, you know, I'm not going to name them because you guys know, if you, if you, we don't need to recap, we don't need to recap. Um, but that being said, because I've been on TV for so long, I do pick and choose now, like what I want to film and what I don't want to film. And if they don't want to air it, that's fine. Um, I will say one thing though, that this specific thing that I wasn't in the episode for last week that they wanted, um, I was

told and it's written in the order to not discuss it on any social media or filming. So, um, I just wanted to put that out there. It's, um, not actually what people are led to believe it was. I'm trying to tread lightly because I don't know where, um, I don't want to say too much, but fine line is fine. Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to touch on that, but um, there, I actually wanted to touch on something that, you know, that I've been struggling with and, um, you know, like over the years, I think I've gotten a lot of, um, backlash on my friends and how like I can't keep friends around or whatever that looks like on TV. Um, I actually do have a handful of friends that I've been friends with for a really,

really long time, but most of those friends don't live in Delaware. So like I can't film with them. Um, but I have have had falling outs with a lot of people that were best friends for me and to me and have gotten close with my kids. And, um, I do recognize that, you know, the fallouts that are occurring in my life and with my friends are not normal. I know that I know that, um, you know, people don't have falling outs like I do, but I also will say that, um, I, I do ignore red flags and I think that, um, there's a lot to be said about certain people that have been in my life that will get wrapped up in the identity of Kale's friend and they do like the attention that they get from the show and they develop

a whole, essentially a whole brand off of the publicity that I have for being on Teen Mom too. Um, so I did want to touch on that. I am in therapy and I'm, we're on 18 months or something like that. And I, I do have to undo 28 years of like shitty relationships and that doesn't just go with like family relationships or romantic relationships. That's like redefining how I build a foundation with someone in a friendship, right? Like I, my friendships are not normal because I've had 28 years of, you know, kind of just like rocky foundations and, and I do ignore red flags in almost all of my relationships in life because I want to, I think, okay, if someone comes into my life, I'm like, yeah, I know,

I know when someone is genuine and when someone is not genuine and when they're not genuine, I just think that if I love them enough and if I value the friendship enough that they'll forget about the Teen Mom aspect or the attention aspect or the publicity aspect. I think they'll forget about that enough to be like, wow, like I really love Kale for Kale and I'm sticking around for Kale. So when, when, when people do certain things, I think, you know, I don't ignore it. Like I feel like a normal person would say, Oh, well, you showed me your true colors. So now I'm out. I don't do that. I ignore it and give them another chance because I want that. Like I want to, it's almost like I want to be loved so bad that I will ignore

red flags for them to see like, I'm not what you think. Does that make sense? Yeah. And it's like, I was telling you earlier that I think a lot of your relationships and this isn't a judgment. This is just like a perspective that I've been able to, to have just being involved in your life and being able to see things from the outside looking in on certain things that because of your relationships with your parents or, you know, back there of, I think that when you seek out friendships or you invite people into your life that you're inviting those people in as family and sometimes the things that you're looking for in those friendships are to fill or replace things that you don't have

like in family relationships. And so I think because there is so much emotion involved and you do put so much into those friendships and allow those people so close to you that maybe that's why the fallouts are so big. And then there is this unique aspect, right? Of having friendships, relationships that are played out in front of the public for them to see and be witness to that normal. And I use that word loosely because what it really is normal that normal people don't have that aspect to it, right? Like if there's a friend falling out, now people, you know, normal people might have petty fallouts, you know, on Facebook, I've seen that before. But to the caliber that you've had fallouts

publicly with things going back and forth on Instagram, Twitter, you know, whatever, it's just totally unnecessary. And you know, there is this whole other aspect that you have to think about when you invite people into your life. Are they there for real genuine reasons, you know, like, no, I can't, I can't honestly say that the people that I've had falling out with, I can't honestly say when I look back that any of them were genuine, I was just ignore, I was truly ignoring the red flags because I just wanted, I wanted that like family, like I wanted that bond, like I wanted that. What is the like relationship not like a romantic relationship with that relationship, that friendship to work out

so bad, but I do feel like more than anyone else on the show and more than anyone that I know that is on reality TV that I do feel the constant constant need to defend myself and defend. And the crazy part is that like, if I was to tell my side of things, nobody would believe me. They only would believe they only believe the other person. And I, I keep thinking back to, well, the last two weeks, I keep thinking back to when I got divorced. And I kept like, he was just saying all these things about me. And I knew I knew if I spoke, it was just going to bite me in the ass. It wasn't going to help my case. It wasn't going to get people to believe me. I just knew in my heart of hearts, if I stayed

quiet long enough, the truth would, it would reveal itself. And, and I wholeheartedly believe that when we did marriage bootcamp, things did come out, you know what I mean? Like things did come to light. And then, you know, later on, even more things came to light. And so, and I'm not saying this to bash him. I'm just saying that in terms of like my own story and my own truth, it's one of those things where, I mean, even in this situation and over the last two weeks with a couple people I have in mind, I could, I could honestly bring receipts. I have proof. I have voice notes. I have text messages. I have all of that. I have, I could defend myself. But when I talked to my therapist about it, she basically

was like, it's not about proving who's right and who's wrong. Because at the end of the day, you're never going to see their side. They're never going to see your side. So you have to ask yourself, is it necessary? And I think my answer to that is no, because I'm not going to waste my breath. I'm not going to sit here and try to defend, like, try to defend myself for what? To people who at the end of the day, when the show is done, they're not going to, they're no longer going to be invested. Do you know what I mean? And so these people are going to these huge lengths to tell their side when I have the proof. I have all of that is, I know, I just know in my heart of hearts, if I'm quiet long enough,

the truth will come out and I don't have to say anything. So that's on therapy. That's on, you know, choosing my own piece over drama at the end of the day. All right, guys, we're going to take a quick break to chat about one of our partners, function of beauty. We have talked about them so many times before. And you guys know that I absolutely love function of beauty, but I have a quick question. What is your favorite mango rose pear or eucalyptus? These are just some of the amazing scents available with function of beauty's customized shampoo and conditioner. And for those of you who have not heard about function of beauty, function of beauty is the world leader and fully customized hair

care. They create your unique formula based on a short but thorough quiz to give your hair everything that it needs to look and feel its best. And every product is sulfate and paraben free vegan cruelty free. And there are over 60,000 real five star customer reviews and function of beauty fans are absolutely wild about the fragrances. And for good reason, your hair never smelled so amazing. You can try the tropical mango, like I said, sweet peach, crisp pear or subtler scents such as lavender, rose and eucalyptus. And if fragrance is not for you, that's totally okay. You can get unscented as well. And I have tried all of these scents. I really love rose and eucalyptus and the pear is really, really good scent for

summer. So if you guys would like to turn your beauty routine into a Roma therapy session, a tropical getaway, even you can go to function of beauty.com slash convos to take your quiz and save 20% on your first order that applies to their full range of customized hair, skin and body products. That's function of beauty.com slash convos to let them know that you heard about it here and to get 20% off your order function of beauty.com slash convos. One, I think two, with that being said, you said, you know, people won't be invested once the show is over. And to a degree, I agree with that statement. And then to a degree, I don't because I feel like you do have loyal followers that will follow you through each project that you take

on and what's to come after the show. And that happened for me, you know, like I'm that happened for me. And so I know that there are a lot of loyal and genuine followers that are out there that are following, you know, for the right reasons and because they want to be there and they want to support. But with all of that being said, I think that there are certain aspects of your life that should not play, you know, on the green screen for social media or for, you know, whether that be the network or whatever it is, there are certain things that you should be able to go through privately. And I think when you, you have fallouts with friends and stuff, you should be able to communicate with those people and not have to worry about if they're going to,

you know, a tabloid or if they're going to Instagram or they're ganging up on you with, you know, other people you've had falling outs with and it's like, well, that's so to your point right there, I think that there are two things that are screaming at me right now that you just said when you have people that mutually don't like you. Yes, I was the common denominator, but that right there says more about them when they gang up on the person that they don't like. Then it does about me. You're literally seeking out other people that don't like me, you're a fucking troll. Secondly, the only the only people that have actually done like gone and talked to reporters or gone on Instagram and said things are the same

people that would not sign NDAs, which speaks volumes, right. And again, it's one of those things where it's like, I'm going to choose my battle. You've already done it. Now I know specifically one person when I asked you to sign an NDA and you blatantly say, why would you ever question my loyalty? Like truly angry. Yes. And then this, all of this stuff comes about. It's like, okay. Yeah, I mean, I think that again, it speaks volumes, like you said, and you have to be the bigger person and realize that hurt people hurt people, you know, and if that's what, you know, validates somebody at the end of the day, because you know, I've dealt with it too. And I, I sent you a message yesterday that I got on

Instagram and I'm not going to read it out loud just because it would require an energy from me that would be negative towards someone else. And that's just not, it's not in me. It's not who I am. I don't, I don't care to go back and forth with anyone and pass that at this point in my life. And I think that you, you made a good point. You choose peace over the drama. You stand in your truth. You know, you know, what is true. You and I more than any person that I know can bring receipts to everything. We do not delete anything. So it's just, it's really, I can't, I, I, you're right to your point. Like I, I don't want to go back and forth. This is not, and that's why I'm speaking so vaguely because this could apply to so many different situations. It doesn't just

apply to like one thing. But yeah, no, to your point, I absolutely don't want to go back and forth. I don't have the energy to try to convince these people, you know, my side and what really happened, the sequence of events I don't have, I'm not going to do it. It's not worth it. If other people want to do that, that's on them. That's their time and hurt people do hurt people. And that is a quote that Russ says in one of his songs. And you know how much I love Russ. So I really love and respect that you said that. Kale loves, Kale might love Russ as much as she loves Post Malone or more. You know what? Yes. Yes, you're right. You're absolutely correct because both of them, I just respect the hustle in both of them. They both have their hands in everything

and Russ will literally like create, produce, do all of that stuff, like songs on his own, like completely, I think like his debut album was like completely done by himself, no features. I think there were, maybe there was features, but he produced it all on his own, all of that. And then like Post Malone has his hands and everything, like people are like, oh, you're, you, those are your celebrity crushes. And I'm like, no, I literally just respect the hustle, like always working, always grinding, like respect it. And also like, I want to be on a track, like let's all get on a song together. This is my proposal. I love this so much, but also hate it so much. Can we talk about something on a much, much, much lighter note? Did you see the jelly

shoes that I ordered? I did. And I was cracking up, but also was fully like living in the 90s. Yesterday on your stories. Well, so my friend was like, my aunt has these in every color. These are definitely old lady vibes. I said, don't ever disrespect my jellies. I said, these are 90s vibes. Like we're not going to go there. I almost wore them to the office today just to record the podcast in them, but I didn't know how long I would be here because I have to get some other work done. And I didn't, I just like didn't know how I would feel. But I definitely recommend sizing up if you want to get them as an adult, like definitely recommend sizing up. I have two colors. I got the clear glitter ones, which is the ones that I always wanted as a child.

And then I also got like the clear, like it looks like a, like a mauve or like a dusty rose color. And those don't have glitter in them, but I haven't worn them yet. And I just love them. I love that you are living your best 90s. Jelly shoes life. Life. I love that so much. And, you know, it really just like speaks to, to everything that we have been talking about over the last couple of weeks, just like reliving your childhood, kind of putting everything into perspective, getting rid of trash in your life, you know, just, I don't know. It's just like, I feel such good vibes for our future that it just makes me feel good inside, even though I woke up to a shit storm on text this morning. I still didn't get stressed out. And I don't know where

that level of confidence is coming from in my life to be perfectly honest. That's fine. Just keep it, keep that same like confidence at all times. And maybe, you know, the stress levels will just like slowly fade out over time. Let me tell you, tomorrow of like a real estate photographer is coming over to my house to like take pictures and stuff for it to be listed. And since I got back from California, I feel like my stuff is just all over everywhere being gone for like, it didn't even, it wasn't even that long that we were gone. But I guess I don't realize how many packages that I actually get. And so by the time I got back, there was like stacks of packages. My office looks like FedEx blew up. And I just can't get caught up.

No, I know, I have, I guess I ordered, will I say a guess? I know I did. I just forgot about it. Like a table and chairs for outside, like a patio stuff. And it came in a box. And then it's like in the house, like right in the front door when you walk in. So it's kind of just like, I need to do something with this. And also, I mean, my jelly shoes were there when I got home. So that's amazing. I love that for you. The one thing that I do remember about jellies, when I saw you wearing them, it made me like, I don't know why it made me think of this. But I remember they were like a very sweaty shoe. Like even though they were eerie, my feet still sweat. Totally. I definitely, I definitely could see that. But I'm going to wear

mine with socks, I think you are. Yeah, I just feel like you wear socks with everything though, like even things that you shouldn't wear socks with, like socks with crocs, socks with Birkenstocks. Oh my God, socks with crocs, socks with Birkenstocks. I just honestly, if anyone tries to steal my taglines, like please don't, I, you're right. I love socks. I just think they're great. I would, I feel like I could start a trend with socks with jellies. And I, I don't know, I feel like it could do really well because they're clear. And if you have cool socks on with the jellies, like that could be a whole vibe. Okay. Well, I'm going to need you to take a picture and send it to me. And I'll tell you if it's post appropriate. Okay, fine. Deal. But don't post it until I see it.

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gravity blankets.com and check out the weighted blankets, weighted sleep mask and weighted robes use promo code COMBOs to get 20% off of your purchase. That's gravity blankets.com and use code COMBOs to get 20% off of the blanket that everyone's talking about. Speaking of just all of the stuff, do you know how many messages that we got from people talking about how they loved that we covered the Demi Lovato doc? They did. They loved it. And they were like, are you going to cover episode two? Because we had Ashley on the podcast between the episode. And so people were like, wait, but you didn't cover episode two. And I was like, yeah, I know, but it's hard because whenever you have a guest and then you and I have talked about following up and staying

on what we say we're going to do, it's hard sometimes whenever you have a guest. And so I was like, yeah, you know, I actually took detailed notes on episode two. So we'll go ahead and do it today. Okay, down. I'm so down. So I don't know if you remember because you said that you watched it like a way long time ago. And for those of you who are tuning into this episode that didn't tune into not last week, but the week before, we covered the first episode of the Demi Lovato documentary dancing with the devil. And the second episode was basically covering the her getting to the point of the overdose and how close people around her were just so confused. And like, like we were talking a couple of weeks ago that, you know, she has a whole team of people

that are hired to take care of like various things for her. And probably because of that, it allowed her to have flexibility within her schedule, right? So she's not taking care of like normal tasks that most people would be taking care of every day. And so that's probably what led to some of, I don't want to say like sneakiness because I don't necessarily know if it's like sneaky behavior, but just like able to do things under the radar, maybe. Yeah, I was definitely gonna say it provides like more free time to do other other things, honestly, extracurricular things. Yeah, exactly. And so it had said on the documentary on the second episode that she had had three strokes, a heart attack and multiple organ failure.

And she was found naked and blue left for dead after being sexually taken advantage of. And that it covered, you know, how sexual trauma doesn't just like go away overnight and how that was is definitely a big part of the the decision making. And I know that you can relate to that to a degree of the sexual trauma just like not going away overnight. And that to me was like this episode to me was very profound because it brought a different level of understanding to me. So I think that for people who who just don't really understand decision making that people who have gone through sexual trauma that they make that it's something that that's a really eye opening episode that I think that people should tune

into because like we've talked about before, unless you've been through it, you can't understand it, right? And like the decision making might not make sense to you. But someone who has been through it or if you're seeing this and someone talk through the process of it, you reach a different level of understanding. Right. No, I'm with you on all of those points. I definitely agree. I that also goes back to kind of loops back into what I said in the beginning of the episode, which is unrelated that you don't know the internal battle that someone could be facing and sexual trauma could very well be one of those things and they're not talking about it. So you can never understand the decisions and the internal conflict that is happening, you know, within somebody.

And I'm not saying that that's ever an excuse, but I totally understand. And then it talked about how she had lost her virginity and a rape. And so to me, that is something that is would be so traumatic. And I actually talked about, I think it was last week or something on the Southern T that I saved myself for will. And so though I couldn't imagine losing my virginity in a way that like wasn't in my control and what that would have done to me psychologically. And even though I can't understand decisions of drug use and whatever, I do understand now why some decisions were made specifically by her because of the trauma that she had been through. And it's just so sad that this kind of goes back to what

we were talking about a little bit ago, that there are certain things that people face in their lives, but they're, you know, thrown into this spotlight and have this following and whatever and, you know, feel the need to be on all the time, but then they're dealing with all of these traumas and people just don't understand, you know? Well, I don't think they ever, I don't think people ever try to understand. I don't think that that's ever something that, you know, and I can only relate on, you know, where I'm at. I can't relate to her level of fame or, or or anything, but I don't think that there has ever been a time where I felt like the audience and the target audience and the followers and things like that, they don't ever,

they, I guess just assume, I'm trying not to set her because I'm trying to get my, my thoughts together, but if you have fame and if you have money and if you have popularity, you don't have any problems at all. So I don't think there's ever, like nobody looks behind the brand. Nobody ever looks beyond what is being seen in the public. Nobody ever looks past like what the media is saying. Nobody ever is looking at the childhood and the trauma and the, you know, family dynamic growing up. Nobody is ever looking at those things. And so it's really hard, I think for, for viewers to, to see it now because it's all coming to light. And it's like, these are the things that have directly impacted my decisions today. Right. And the same goes for her. Like all

of these things that she's gone through as a young woman, as a young child are just now, like the, the consequences and repercussions that she's facing because of some of the things are just coming out now as an adult. Right. So there's a lot to be said there. And I just wish that, you know, we, as people, as viewers, as consumers, we know this. So why are we not trying to do a better job? Um, I actually was talking to one of my friends the other day about how I think a lot of people tune in to shows, um, you know, maybe even podcast at this point, um, various, various different entertainment channels to, um, feel better maybe about themselves. I'm also trying not to stutter to, to be able to come across clear of what I'm trying to say. But sometimes I think

people tune in to see someone else's downfall so that they feel better about that their life isn't so, so bad. And they're not trying to understand. They're just using it as a way to feel better about themselves versus understanding what they're actually watching or listening to. And, um, you know, that's really sad. That's a really sad part of, I guess, consumerism, right? Like, yeah, you're tuning in to watch someone's downfall and even worse, the people that are close to you almost want that. And that again, all of this circles back to what we talked about in the beginning, like there are people in your corner, people in your everyday life that are literally hoping for your downfall. I was actually talking about that on the Southern T2 that it's sad that

some of these, um, things on Instagram, um, you know, reporters or whatever you want to call them that have these like troll pages, I guess, is the best way to describe it, that some of the tips that they're, that people are writing in and giving them are people in your, your life that you think are in your corner. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Um, I, it's weird because it's weird when, for me, especially, I know this isn't related to the Demi doc, but, um, to think, okay, I know the people that I ignored red flags for, right? Like I have, I have them off the top of my head, like I know who they are, I know what, what flags I ignored, I know why, et cetera, et cetera, but it's always crazy when you didn't see the one person that does that, that will report, that will run back,

that will, is truly a troll and you don't even know it. Those are the worst ones. The, well, because it's like the sneakiness, right? Like the, um, the display, I guess, of, you know, they put on like this big mask, right? Like I am loyal and I am your friend and I'm ride or die and I'm this or that, but like really behind the scenes, they're doing all of the opposite, all of the opposite things. And so I think that those situations, it's like, when you know what you're dealing with, you can handle it a lot better, but when you don't know what you're dealing with, it's a lot harder pill to swallow, right? And so I think that a lot of this ties back into, when I, when I watch this, I, I can't help but to think of you because, okay, for example,

she talks about how she was a part of this Disney crowd that she was waiting for marriage to lose her virginity and how, um, ultimately because of what happened to her, she stopped eating, she started cutting, she started throwing up. Um, and those were all reactions to, to what happened to her. And then I think about you starting this journey with 16 and pregnant at 16 years old and the impact that some of the things that you have gone through has had on your life and all of those traumas and being so young and having to navigate this public platform, but all of these real serious hard things that have happened. Right. And I don't think that at 16, 17, 18, 19, even 20 years old, I don't think that I had the

tools or the guidance to go through those things even privately. Right. And so I think a lot of people would argue, well, then get out of the public eye again. I mean, I was, I think my first real paycheck from the beginning of all of this was $5,000 and that was before taxes and I needed a car because I didn't have a car to get my son somewhere. And so it was a really hard situation where I, and I don't think that I felt the same consequences that I feel now looking back and seeing what, what it looked like on, you know, a 16 through 20 year old mom. I don't think I really recognized what that was going to do, but like looking back, it's like, wow, what was, what the fuck? Yes. And I, I think that when you are in your situation at that time, it was more of a

desperate decision making, right? You saw quick access to, in the grand scheme of things, that's not a lot of money, right? Like, no, but you saw quick access to something that you had never had access to before. And so the decision making process that you went through during that time of what I guess I would call need, you made those decisions. And I don't think you would make those decisions today, but at the same time, where would you be today if you didn't make those decisions? You know, so it's like a double-edged sword, you know? I will say that I could definitely, I mean, I saw myself a lot in the documentary with Demi and just hiding all of the trauma and pain and trying to navigate it in a public way. And then I'm sure she gets the same comments,

but on even, wow, why am I stuttering so much? I'm sure she gets the same comments, but on an even bigger scale of like, well, then just quit, just get out of the public eye, just give up, just, you know, leave the industry, things like that. And I think for, for her, that Justin Bieber's manager, I guess it's his manager, Scooter, was actually in the documentary on this episode too, and was talking about how, as an artist that, you know, Demi was, was this liability, but like he wanted to help her. And, you know, that's just sad in itself, like trying to navigate your personal life, but having all of this talent, but being held back because you're this liability,

because of the drug use and the decision making that ultimately is being made because of the trauma that has been experienced. I just, there, people need to open their eyes and we're all guilty of it, right? Like people need to open their eyes and try to look at other human beings as human beings. We are all hurt humans, right? Like every person has experienced hurt and the decision making that every person goes through is not all the same. But I think if we opened our eyes and started looking at people in a more kinder way, versus in a judgmental way, that this world would be such a better place. Agreed. 1000% agreed. And, and then something else that was said on this second episode that I think all of us can relate to is the growth through quarantine. And as hard

of a time as the pandemic has been, and all of the challenges that everyone has had to face, whether it be, you know, anything really. I think I personally can say I know that I grew a lot as a person through those challenges. And I don't know if the growth came from the amount of change that we had to face over that amount of time, or if we kind of went into survival mode, or maybe a combo of both. Yeah, I don't know. But like I feel like you grew a ton through quarantine too. Wow, I really can talk today. I also started therapy right, I guess, right before the pandemic. Yeah. So I feel like that has, that helped a lot. I never, I've never stopped going. So that's crazy. That's a really good point, because I never thought of it that way. Like,

I think the most growth that I've ever, that I've ever experienced was during this last year and a half, two years. I was thinking, I was like, wow, during quarantine, I really like, maybe it was because we just weren't doing a lot of things that made our minds busy, because I think we do get in this rat race of life, right, where we do things to keep our minds busy. And it's just like, we do one thing for the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And you never have time to just like sit and think in your thoughts. And I think through quarantine, because we couldn't do stuff, that maybe that's where the growth came from. And you started realizing things like, you know, oh, well, maybe, you know, I should go to therapy and work on that, because it's not like I have

anything else to do. But like, isn't it kind of sad that we had to go through a pandemic to like realize that? It's sad, but I'm also like, in an odd, a really odd way, I'm thankful for it. Me too. Because I don't think that I would have had this same focus had we not gone through all of that, you know what I mean? Like I now it's almost like, if we if we didn't have all of that, like would I still have gone through therapy, sometimes twice a week, sometimes double sessions, like what I have done all of that, I don't know, like what I, I feel like I've been doing a really good job, like trying not to react to certain things that don't deserve my energy. I feel like if we didn't go through all of that, would I would I be where I'm at now? Or would I still

be lashing out like, kill from two or three years ago? Would I still be talking shit for free online like kill two or three years ago? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. So I'm in an odd way, like super thankful for it. I'm super thankful for it too. I mean, obviously, not the best circumstances don't want to be on here preaching and being like, Oh, yeah, like, to, you know, the silver lining, I guess of it is that it did cause a reason to pause and to be able to think about things that were important. I think it kind of redefined priorities, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely agree with that. But also to your point, not preaching that we love the pandemic, you know, that'll be the next headline will be like, Kale loves pandemic.

You're like, no, that's not what I said. You took one little clip and then made it your own. All right, all right, all right, all right. Let's talk about money. As you guys know, I've said it multiple times on both podcasts. Budgeting is my word of the year. I just want to make smart decisions. I want to get my finances under control. I have a financial advisor and I also check credit karma pretty much every single week and that is no exaggeration. So credit karma has always been there to help me make financial decisions and kind of see like where my money is at, where my loans are at, what I'm looking at, what credit cards I can get pre-approved for and things like that. So with a credit karma money spend account, you can actually be rewarded

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Exclusions in terms of apply, C rules, banking services provided by MVB Bank Inc, member FDIC, maximum balance and transfer limits apply. Okay, gotta tell you something that I've been super invested in though. Let's hear it. And that is the Kim Kardashian and Kanye West divorce. And I've just been like following it and following it and following it. And Kanye West and his new girlfriend, which is Bradley Cooper's, he's a girlfriend. Yeah, it's Bradley Cooper's ex. What? No, slow down. Yeah, he has a daughter with I'm telling you, like I'm like knee deep sis in this. And they had gone to they had flown to like France or somewhere and then

went on a private plane and flew into New York and then got pictures coming off this private plane and then we're spotted together in New Jersey. And I mean, this woman is beautiful. She's a model. Let me look her up. I've never, I didn't even know he was in a relationship. And I don't know again, it's just like the media is so weird because it feels like their divorce is happening in real time. And so is this relationship like, are they even legally divorced yet or no? No, they're not legally divorced. Okay, so noted, it's okay for Kim and Kanye to do it, but it's not okay for me and Javi to do it. Got it noted, written down, understood. Okay, so to that point, actually. So I had seen this thing and I was like, okay, we have to talk about this because

it's kind of being advertised like this is an okay thing if Kanye is doing it, but would it have been okay if Kim, let's say just for shits and gigs that she went on her Instagram and posted a picture with Drake, because that had been a rumor, you know, that like Kim was, you know, seeing Drake, I think it's been a rumor for a really long time. Would people, would the headlines be the same if it was Kim doing it versus Kanye doing it? And then I guess that gets into the argument, it's okay for a man to do it, but not for a woman to do it, right? Like, I just want to say speaking from my own experience, I was obviously not legally divorced yet, but I had been filed and I, you know, was with somebody else. Wow, everything comes full circle. When we went to

marriage boot camp, you know, Javi took the lie detector test and it, you know, was said that he was having relations before we were legally divorced. I did not consider that cheating because we were going through the process of divorce. So the fact that the public is having is like, since basically my question is like, since when did the public get to decide what was right and what was wrong? Like for me and Javi, but also for Kim and Kanye, like, I do agree. I don't think I don't think that Kim would have had the same, like, I think people would have came at her for it. I think they would have, they would attack her for it if it was her. I agree. And then I guess that goes into the court of public opinion, right? Like, everybody has an opinion, just like we all

have assholes, you know, so it's like, I don't know. I just, part of me is like, okay, the Kardashians are such business transactional people that maybe this divorce has been stewing for quite some time and that it's reaching settlement and maybe emotionally they had been moved on for quite some time. So this might, when the public seeing something, right, this might not be as new as what people might be perceiving things to be. Right, right. I'm looking up the girlfriend now and she's absolutely stunning. She's so pretty. I will say in some of the pictures though, she looks like Kim. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a type. Yeah. I mean, that is, I mean, this, when they show Kanye in the middle and then Kim on one side and is it Irina? Yeah, I think that's how you say her name.

On the other side. She's stunning. She is absolutely stunning. But yes, there is a resemblance to Kim. Absolutely. So then it led me to another Kardashian topic is Kourtney and Scott and there was something that was posted on Instagram that, you know, one of them either Kourtney or Scott had said that they believed that they would still be together if it wasn't for keeping up with Kardashians. Javi is going to kill us. But definitely he's going to text me tomorrow and be like cussing me out for sure. But it led me to think about relationships within reality TV and how much the filming and I guess just like the whole vibe of what's surrounding you while you are participating in reality TV, how that affects relationships again, whether it be

with friends, romantic marriages, blah, blah, blah, how that affects it and would things be different if things didn't publicly play out? Again, speaking from a lower, a lower place, but definitely same concept. I think that it would be very different if it wasn't publicized, if things weren't publicized, if things weren't on TV, I'm not saying I'm going to give up TV forever. I'm not saying I would never do TV again. I'm just saying that that public element of so many things and all the relationships and the ins and outs and all of that 100% affected by the TV, the media, all of that. And then it just makes you think like because I've thought about this too and my situation with Will and filming Chris Lee knows best like my dad didn't get along with

Will. That's publicly known. Will didn't get along with him publicly known. Both are equally, I would say to blame because I don't think either of them put forth any type of effort to like try to make it work or try to get to know each other on a deeper level. And so I think that a lot of me doing the show and Will not wanting to be a participant of that definitely led to my first divorce filing. And even though, and I think I talked about this on the Southern T that I didn't even have social media like going into doing the show, my siblings had to make my Instagram for me. And I didn't even have Twitter or Facebook, like I was literally social media lists and had the best what I felt was the best relationship

up until going on reality TV and then the social media aspect. So I just wonder how many people that are in the industry that would say things might be different in their romantic relationships if TV, social media, et cetera, didn't play a part. Oh, I moving forward. I think I've talked about it on on here. Like any relationship moving forward, nobody will know about it except for the people like near me. Like I will never like there better be a ring on my finger. And even then, I may not even post it. You know what I mean? Like, no, no, no, no, like I will keep my my romantic relationship completely like I, I would probably do like a dating show or like have like funny, like, because I'm so fucking awkward, like I would probably let MTV like film me dating,

but not like one exclusive person that I truly believe like a relationship would come from like would never happen. I wouldn't I would never allow that to occur again. I think that if the mindset is the same with both people and there is just knowing what I know now, right? Like, this is just a perspective that I have after going through it, that if the mindset is the same, and you have an open line of communication, and there is like no sneakiness involved in the relationship whatsoever. And the end goal is the same for both people. I think that it's okay and can be healthy. But I okay, I can see that. But I think that when you have two people, I'll just use will and I for an example, like I wanted to do it and he

didn't want to do it. Initially, neither of us wanted to do it. And then I was like, well, you know, I'll do it. And then he didn't want to do it. That would that never works, right? Because you have two different agendas, right? And then there's no support there, you know. Yeah. No, I hear you. I hear you loud and clear. I think that I think maybe two to your point, it would depend on it would depend on the show, the network, the audience, the mindset, you know, I think there are a lot of factors. I'm just speaking because I do feel like a little bit pigeonholed. I do feel like I it's almost like I'm not an actress, but typecasted. So I don't know that I could. I don't like no other like, I don't think he is going to pick me up

and show this like glamorous, like, super fun, lighthearted, like version of me. And so I don't think it would ever open that door to show or showcase a relationship in that light. I think that I'm pigeonholed to certain. Yes. Yes. You get what I'm saying. Yes. So I don't think that I would ever have the opportunity to showcase a different, a different narrative. And I did want to just bring this up because I get asked this all the time to kill, to kill and you ever fight. And since we've talked so much about friendships on this, I feel like it's a valid thing to bring up. I think it's funny that people have to ask that. And again, that speaks to the friendship because the fact that people have to ask means that it's not being displayed. So have Kale and I got in

arguments about stuff. Yeah, but it's weird because I don't really feel like we fight like friends. It's more like sister like fighting and it's more like petty, like almost like she went in my closet and took my shirt or something. Yeah. No, but seriously, yes, we've definitely, we've definitely had our, I wouldn't say that we fight like that's not like a, we don't fight. We have like arguments or disagreements, but nothing is like, I can't think of a time where we like fought. And I also, no, yeah, it's literally like sisters, like she went in my closet and took my fucking shirt. And here's all the reasons why I hate her guts. No, I'm just kidding. Here's all the reasons why she's wrong. But no, I don't, I wouldn't say we've ever fought. It's just like disagreements or

arguments. And then we move on. Like there's never been like a, like a falling out. We've never had like a falling out where we didn't talk. Yeah. And it's just weird. And I never felt like the need to be like, okay, that bitch stole my shirt. So I'm going to go on Instagram and I'm going to tell everybody about how she's a thief. Like, could you imagine if I did that to you? What would you do? What would you do if like the first fight we ever got into, I went and like told the media, like, never talked to you again. Okay. Just checking. But again, I think that goes to back to personalities, right? Because I feel like you allow people to do bad stuff and then you just like keep bringing them back. It's like

recycling. And then you, it takes a while to learn the lesson, right? But I feel like that's something that you've talked about with me and therapy that, you know, you eventually have to learn the lesson. Yeah. Well, now the problem is that I've, this has happened so often and it's something that I am learning to undo. But now, like, when I tell you, I want to go on Instagram and Facebook, I know this sounds so trivial, but like, I want to remove every single person that I have not had communication with in the last two weeks, like removed, delete, not that I don't care about you or what you're doing in your life, which is that like, for my own peace of mind, I don't want to take the risk of having these people get close to me. And then like, I don't

want people around me now. Like, I don't, like, don't ask me to hang out. You're not coming to my house. Don't ask me for anything. Like we are hardly friends. Now we're acquaintances. Like, I want to retract because that's the only way that I have some sense of like control, I guess. But I literally like don't want people around me because I, and I've said it so many times too, like, I don't want anyone to take away from this podcast that I'm not taking accountability for my own actions because I do, I do believe that that's one thing that I can do. And then I, that I do frequently is like, take accountability where I, where I fuck up. But in this situation, like the last two weeks, and I can't honestly say that I feel like I did wrong. Do you know what

I'm saying? I'm setting boundaries. I'm doing what I talk to my therapist about. If I tell you, I don't want to do something, I don't actually owe you an explanation for why I don't want to do it. So whatever you, whatever your narrative is, and whatever you, whatever you, I guess deduce on your own is on you, that is your perception, that is your opinion, that is your business, that is not my business. If I tell you, no, the answer is no, I don't owe you shit after that. So I think that the people that have always been like fucked up are the only ones that are truly upset about my boundaries. So that's where I'm at. Well, and to your point about the boundaries thing, I think, and I don't know if it just comes with life experience, age, if it's a combination

of both, but I think that you do get to a point in your life that you have to set proper boundaries with all relationships. That's even with your children, you know, that there has to be proper boundary setting, because if you don't have boundaries, I feel like you don't have anything. It's kind of like trust, right? Like if you don't have trust in a relationship, you don't have anything. If you don't have boundaries, you also don't have anything because there is no respect there. And so if you want people to respect you, you have to respect yourself by setting boundaries and by properly putting relationships in the proper perspective in the place that where they belong in your life. And again, what you just said, if you say no to someone, no means no, and there

no, and there doesn't need to be an explanation as to why you don't want to do something. Right. So whatever you come up with for why I'm saying no is on you. I'm not going to explain it to you, because nine times out of 10, you're either not going to believe me or going to go with whatever narrative you have in your head anyway. But really quickly, just want to touch on the fact that my 11-year-old is going through this with his friends. And like towards the end of the school year, something happened with like trust and like whatever. And he, you know, it was really upset because he thought he could trust his friend. And I cried so hard last night because I literally said, I cannot believe that at 29 years old, I'm going through the exact same

thing as my 11-year-old and I'm trying to teach my son, you know, do not trust everybody. And once someone shows you who they are the first fucking time, do not give them a second chance because they will do the same thing again. I cannot believe, like I couldn't even wrap my head around that. And that, that was really hurtful for me because it's just like when you think you can trust someone, think twice. Well, and it's so hard too, because I feel when you just said that to me because of what you've shared with your relation about your relationship with your mom that maybe you didn't have that guidance at 11. Absolutely not. Absolutely did not. And so what you're experiencing at 29 and you're able to teach Isaac at 11 is just hard, you know, because

you're experiencing life lessons that maybe you should have learned from a parent early on. And you didn't have the luxury of having that. And I'm not, you know, making excuses for you because I don't want people to say, Oh, well, you know, you just make excuses for Kale because I do get DMs like that. It's not an excuse. Oh, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. It's not an excuse. It's, you know, there are certain things that you're able to do for your children that were not done for you. And so the lessons come a little bit later. But the silver lining of that is that you, you are able to teach your kids the lessons so that the cycle isn't repeated and they don't have to have hopefully the same struggles at 29. I hope to hell they don't have these fucking

struggles at 29 years old because this is not normal. This is absolutely not acceptable, normal, none of it. I don't, I would never want to see what I'm going through now. My kids go through it. There's no reason for it. I mean, I'm the prime example of what not to do and what to do and therapy and, um, you know, how I'm learning to react to certain things. Like I, there are a lot of things that I want to be there to guide my kids in this so that they don't have to do this, like when they're 25, 26, 27 years old, like no way. That makes me so sad to hear that about Isaac though, because 11 years old is just like a hard age in general. Yeah. And then to have to feel like, um, a friend that you thought was a friend, like, isn't your friend and it's like

all these different developments that you're going through and puberty and all the things, that's just like a really hard age. And I, I'm glad that, that Jackson's just eight and not 11 yet. Um, because honestly, um, I said today, I said, uh, we're finding a camp for you because I can't do you at home, do both the podcast, do all the other things that are going on and deal with him. He, he's talking a hundred miles a minute and I mean, at least, at least everybody's still kind of like friends at eight, right? Like I think that they, they haven't really established that like they don't like each other yet. So I'm glad that we're not dealing with that. Well, it comes quick. So enjoy the moments now because I literally didn't even see this coming.

It hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, what the fifth grade? Are we literally just talked about fifth grade? Not that long ago in middle school years. And I'm just like over here, like, wow, like there's really clicks in my son's fifth grade class. Like I don't even know. Like where do clicks even come from? Like where do they start? How does it begin? I need them to not, I need them to not, I need everyone to just be fucking accepting of each other and like my kid included, just like accept everybody for who they are and let's just be nice. Like you don't have to like somebody, but let's just fucking be nice. Okay. I feel like that's the whole theme of this episode, right? Like be fucking nice. Just be nice and kind

human beings and be understanding of other people, where they come from, that everybody doesn't have the same walk in life and that some people have harder knocks. Like my lord, I mean today, be fucking nice. Today, I feel like we're on a soap box and we're like preaching, you know. Thank you for attending my Ted Talk. Thank you for attending. Well, actually, on that note, we are out of time. I'm going to try to make it to the gym, definitely make it to baseball practice and all of the things. And I know you have a million things going on too with all of the children's. So yeah, if you guys have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on Instagram, make sure you follow us over there. And if you have not subscribed to our show,

make sure you do that on the purple podcast app. You can search coffee combos, click subscribe, click the fifth star and leave us a written review. You can also find us on Spotify or any other podcast app of your choosing. We hope you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya.