Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 167: True Crime Talk: Kristin Smart

Episode Date: June 26, 2021

On this month's bonus episode Kail and Lindsie are joined once again by friend Summer to talk about the highly requested Kristin Smart case. But before jumping in, they have to talk about the recent developments concerning Brittney Spears and her conservatorship. Summer provides some legal insight to what might be happening. Then as the Kristin Smart case comes back into the news, Lindsie, Kail and Summer discuss theories as well as details from the original investigation. This episode was sponsored by: Title Nine, Dame, KiwiCo, & Hers Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

All right, everyone, it's another bonus episode of Coffee Convos podcast and Lindsey, how are we feeling today? We are feeling, I'm not sure the greatest, but you know, I feel like it's the end of the day. It's it's night. I've already had a bath. I've already had dinner and I'm here with girlfriends. So we're good. Yeah, I'm excited to chat about all the stuff today, but also it's kind of all heavy stuff. So not really really excited about like the heavy stuff, but like you said, girl talk kind of kind of the theme of my life right now. So I'm like, you know what, we can just

like hang with the heaviness. So I'm yeah, I'm good. So you've been sending me all the tick talks about the Britney Spear stuff and our inbox has been blowing up about it personal and podcasts. I don't know if yours, yours personally has, but the amount of messages is insane. And I feel like we just have to talk about it. I don't think that there's a way around talking about it. I know we covered, you know, the Britney stuff a while back, but I her court date, I guess, was today, right? Yes. So this was the first time that she's actually been able to speak in a really, really long

time. And I don't know if you noticed it, but I mean, you can hear in her voice how sad and truly heartbroken she is. Yeah. And I, um, in her voice, I kind of hear someone who is just like completely beat down, who is like pleading for their life. Defeated is a really good word to use for it. Um, I read, actually I'll read the, the posts that I reposted because I actually didn't know that it was as bad as it is. Um, so I want to read what in her own words, like this is not hearsay and Evan Ross, I don't know if it's cats, Evan Ross cats. Um, he, he posted this on his feed and on it. It's a, it's in her own words and Britney's words.

I have a lot to say, so bear with me. They've done a good job at exploiting my life. So I feel like it should be an open court hearing and they should listen to what I have to say. A lot has happened since two years ago. I don't think I was heard on any level when I came to court last time. I just want my life back. It's been 13 years and it's enough. They need to be reminded that they actually work for me. I haven't had anything in the world to deserve. Oh, I haven't done anything in the world to deserve this treatment. It's not okay to force me to do anything I don't want to do. All I want to do is own my money and oh, I guess all I want to do is own my money and for this to end and for my boyfriend

to be able to fucking drive me in his car. And honestly, I want to be able to sue my family. I have an IUD in my body right now that won't let me have a baby and my conservators won't let me go to the doctor to take it out. Um, that's literally appalling to hear. I have, I mean, there's so many different things based off of what you just said, different avenues that we could go down. Um, however, with all of that said, this has been going on for a very, very long time. And to your point, I didn't realize how bad it was. Even though we've talked about this before, I didn't realize until I started seeing the quotes of what she had said herself. Um, the impact that it truly has had on her life. And you

and I have talked about, you know, feeling defeated. If there's like, you know, a bad article or a bad, you know, whatever, and just feeling defeated, but I could not imagine the, um, extent of what she has been through. And I think people really don't understand the impact that, um, being in the public eye has on people's lives. And this speaks to that. Right. I, I just didn't know it was, it was to the point where she can't even get an ID, IUD out. She can't get in her boyfriend's car. Um, there was something profound about when she said, I just want to be able to own my money and the fact that they work for her

and they're hiring all of these people. Um, we can, we're actually going to play the audio where she talks about all these people that were hired to, um, take care of her and be 24 seven care. And these people are all hired on her dime. So I guess I just don't understand how that's been allowed, um, at least to the extent that it has been in her case. I, I, I don't understand that. And she hasn't been able to pick her own attorneys and things like that. So, um, I'm honestly confused by the law on that. Um, I'm honestly confused too. And by the way, guys, we brought Summer back for this episode and she is on here and I want to bring her into this conversation because to me,

this entire thing is a crime in itself. Um, and I, I also don't understand the law on this case and how they have been able to manipulate and, um, maybe this is like, um, a situation how we talked about in OJ Simpson's case about technicalities. Um, does, does that come, are they using the law in a way like they're going around things to be able to do this? Like I just don't understand. Oh, well, gosh, you guys, this stuff yesterday, I think I was crying, reading about all that was to come with Britney Spears and I guess growing up in the nineties and being a huge fan of hers, all this stuff hurts. But now that we know some of the reality of what's happening, I definitely think that her conservators,

and I put that in air quotes, um, have used the law on their side in a way that shouldn't have been allowed, especially when it comes to, like she said, like her money and her body, right? The idea of a conservator is like to have your best interest and to protect you. But what are they protecting her from? I mean, if she can't even use her own money or ride in a car with her boyfriend, like, what's the real reason? We all saw her very public meltdown in the early 2000s, but I don't think by any means that that's reason to like hold her captive in her own home for almost 15 years. Well, especially to your point, Summer, I mean, she had, she's been in the public eye

for so long. Anybody in her shoes would have had a meltdown the way that she did. And I, I don't, why are we still punishing her for, you know what I mean? I just, it's, it's weird to me. I can't imagine like being held essentially captive in my own house with my own money and have all of these people truly hired with, but on my dime to babysit me and make me feel like I'm worthless. I don't know. Like what is the purpose of her dad doing this? I don't get it. I think it's similar to what she said, right? Like he enjoys having the control over her. There's no real reason as to why this has gone on for so long and he's been to allow,

he's been allowed to control her life to this extent. I mean, nobody can make it make sense for me. And I'm hoping that the judge does the right thing in this instance and like ends the conservatorship because there's no need for it. She hasn't shown anybody that she's a harm to herself or to public, or she can't take care of herself or can't take care of her finances. I mean, maybe there was a time period, like you said, but growing up in the public eye, like anybody would have done the same thing. I think we've all reached our breaking points, but it's very different because she reached her as in public, but that doesn't justify these years of, in my opinion, mental abuse by her father.

Well, I think abuse in general for sure. Because I think you at some point through all of these years, she's lost even more of herself. If being in the public, I didn't do that enough where you have to be guarded. You don't know who to trust and things like that. But now I mean, I'm sure she's lost more of herself. She says in the audio that she is depressed and I, she has to sit in basically in her house for in a chair for 10 hours a day. She's still working, I guess. We have the audio, we're going to play it, but I don't, I think I agree with you in that you nobody can make it make sense for me. I cried on the phone for an hour and he loved every minute of it. The control he had over

someone as powerful as me as he loved the control to hurt his own daughter 100,000 percent. He loved it. I packed my bags and went to that place. I worked seven days a week, no days off, which in California, the only similar thing to this is called sex trafficking, making anyone work, work against their will, taking all their possessions away, credit card, cash, phone, passport, cart, and placing them in a home where they, they work with the people who live with them. They offer, they all lived in the house with me, the nurses, the 24 or seven security. There was one chef that came there and cooked for me daily on the, during the weekdays. They watched me changed every day, naked, morning, noon, and

my body. I had no privacy door for my, for my room. I gave eight gals of blood a week. If I didn't do any of my meetings and work from 10, eight to six at night, which is 10 hours a day, seven days a week, no days off. I wouldn't be able to see my kids or my boyfriend. I never had a say in my schedule. They always told me I had to do this. And ma'am, I will tell you, sitting in a chair, 10 hours a day, seven days a week, it ain't fun. And especially when you can't walk out the front door. And that's why I'm telling you this again, two years later, after I've lied and told the whole world, I'm okay. And I'm happy. It's a lie. I thought I just maybe I said that enough. Maybe I might become happy because

I've been in denial. I've been in shock. I am traumatized, you know, fake it till you make it. But now I'm telling you the truth. Okay. I'm not happy. I can't sleep. I'm so angry. It's insane. And I'm depressed. I cry every day. And the reason I'm telling you this is because I don't think how the state of California can have all this written in the court documents from the time I showed up and do absolutely nothing, just hired with my money, another person to keep and keep my dad on board. Ma'am, my dad and anyone involved in this conservatorship and my management who played a huge role in punishing at me when I said, no, ma'am, they should be in jail. They're cool tactics working for Miley

Cyrus as she smokes on joints and stage at the VMAs. Nothing is ever done to this generation for doing wrong things. But my precious body who has worked for my dad for the past fucking 13 years, trying to be so good and pretty, so perfect when he worked me so hard. When I do everything I'm told in the state of California allowed my father, ignorant father to take his own daughter, who only has a role with me if I work with him. They set back the hocus and allowed him to do that to me. That's given these people I've worked for way too much control. The New York Times actually reported where she had said that she had been drugged and

compelled to work against her will and prevented from removing her birth control device, as you were saying, over the past 13 years. And this is in quotes. I've been in denial. I've been in shock. I am traumatized. She said in an emotional 23 minute address by phone that was broadcast in the courtroom and she insisted to the public, I just want my life back. I don't understand, to me, the thing about the IUD, there's so many things wrong with that. Regardless, I mean, people are out here having kids every single day and we can say, you know, certain life circumstances, maybe people shouldn't be having children or, you know, whatever. But at the end of the day, they are. And someone who can, that

has the resources as she does, to be able to provide for that child and to have help. I just don't think it should be up to a conservatorship or a conservator to determine whether she can or cannot have a child if that's what she desires. It's her body. Well, does anyone know what the relationship is to, or what it's like between her and her current two sons? Because I think that she, based on the audio, she's saying like, if she doesn't do what she's told to do, and I think she said she's like working 10 hours a day and seven days a week, no days off, she can't go see her kids. Oh, like it's a punishment. Is that what you're saying, Kale? Like she's punished?

Yeah, like she, she, they won't let her see her kids if she doesn't do what she needs to do. That's abuse. Absolutely. How are you guys? We're going to take a quick break to talk about one of our newest partners, Title Nine, and I have a quick question for you. Does it ever feel like the shorts that you're wearing just weren't made for you? And if the answer is yes, it is time to try Title Nine. They've got shorts built to keep up and made to move with you no matter what you might get into. Title Nine gear is made by women for women and their clamber shorts

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I think I know like a while ago, you know, when her and Kevin Federline split forever and ever ago, I know that in the middle of all that, you know, he was granted custody of the children. I imagine that's still the case now. I know a lot about it isn't talked about, which I understand because, you know, I'm sure they want to keep them out of the public eye as much as possible. But I'm sure that her dad and the conservatorship and all of this also plays a part in that too, just like she's saying, if she doesn't obey then basically she doesn't get to see her kids. And I'm sure already her time is limited with her children based on, you know, custody arrangements and things of that nature.

I just hope the judge does the right thing. I hope he does do. I was amazed. It said that Miss Spears nearly $60 million fortune. Like, Where is the rest of the family during this time? I think that was the question that I had during the last episode that we covered this. Like, where has her sister and her brother and her mom been this entire time? Summer, do you think that they're all like under NDA where they can't speak to the media or something like that? Because that's the only explanation that I could possibly think of as to why these others wouldn't step forward, you know, speak.

My personal opinion, and this is all based on theory. Number one, there probably are NDAs, right? Because why else would they come forward and try to help her? But also when they see what her father's doing to her, maybe they're afraid that he might try to exercise some sort of control over them as well. I don't know. I feel like there's something shady about the family. I mean, NDAs are not. They recorded and the press got all of the audio from Britney. So if other people are testifying or having something to do with it or not having something to do with it, I mean, it speaks volumes. I feel like that they're not.

Silence is, in my opinion, you know, just as loud as like admitting to something. So when you stay quiet on something and you don't come forward and speak about something, especially like Britney's mother or Britney's sister, like people who we know through the public as well, the fact that they're not coming forward and saying anything about any of this, to me, it looks sketchy. It looks like they know more than they're letting on. And maybe they, it appears like they don't seem to care to help her. At least that's what I'm gathering from it. Their silence is louder at this point than any words that they could say. Right. I agree. I agree with that.

Actually Yahoo News did an article and they're both of her parents have spoken out since the hearing. And it said that Lynn's lawyer said that, let's see, it said that basically the mother is requesting that they not leave the court without having a plan. And that she was a very concerned mother. But why are we waiting until we get to court? What is it, 13 years later, that you become very concerned and want to plan now? Like why didn't this happen before? That's my whole point is like, you can't tell me that for these 13 years that none of these, that any of these people could not do something about it.

And no one can convince me that the reason they want her under this conservatorship is to control the money because I think that they would be fearful that they wouldn't have access to anything. And I just think that they think that maybe she would blow it and be like irresponsible. But at the end of the day, somebody's personal finances, just because she became like this pop sensation doesn't necessarily mean that that was her job to keep up her parents or family for the rest of their lives. So I just, I can't help but think that there's got to be some type of financial incentive for them to have her under this.

Well, I guess they get to, yeah, yeah, I guess that's what they get to do is just get her money. They have control of it. I just wonder if it ever dawned on Jamie Spears that when you are spending these amount, this amount of money for salaries for people that she doesn't maybe need, that's going to make the money go away a lot faster than probably Brittany spending it on her own. Correct. Correct. I will be interested to see how this all plays out. And like both of you said, I really do hope and pray that the judge in this case, what are they, what is it called summer like where they just like do away the day do away with the conservatorship.

Like, I think it should just be gone completely. I think so too. I don't see how they can provide any evidence to a judge that she needs someone to make decisions for both her like her medical decisions as well as like the decision decisions of her state. Like I really don't see how they could prove that at this point. I mean, she hasn't made me bad decisions considering she's been locked up for 13 years. Another point that I want to make before we move on from this, I felt like her voice sounded completely different and the audio than what is from videos on Instagram. So I'm also confused about that.

I was going to say, I mean, I think her, her voice is very different from like the Brittany that we know and remember from prior to the conservatorship. But yes, I definitely noticed the difference in her voice on the record versus Instagram. Yeah. So I'm just, I was a little shocked by that because I actually felt like she sounded very, I say normal. I always say normal is relative, right? But like she's, she sounded very normal to me. She just sounded very defeated. Like you said, I think that's exactly right. I think she's hurt by all of this, which was very clear by her words. And I think she needed people to understand that. And I think her emotions

kind of came through in the way that she spoke. Yeah, definitely. But hearing the way that she's speaking to the court and like the pain that she has gone through and endured during this time, the thing, the way that she's talking and the things that she's saying does not leave me to believe that she's incapable of making decisions for herself. I mean, she still seems to have her mind enough to talk about what she's been going through. And I don't feel like anything that she said was questionable or anything like that. So when you're looking at a judge in their face and you're saying, I am hurt and depressed and you know, all of the I'm in pain because of

all of this, but I am capable of making my own decisions. I don't know. She's not incompetent. So I guess it makes me angry to even think about the fact that there's a question at hand here. Right. Absolutely. I think one thing that I remember her saying too was that she didn't know that she had the power to contest this conservative conservatorship, which also could she have though? I don't know that she could have. Yes, she might not have known that she could have contested it, but how would she have if she has 24 seven, like security and surveillance access, she can't have her phone at all times. So or her computer at all times.

So when would she have been able to file it? Also, also very true. I mean, she, you know what I mean? So it was like a double edged sword or catch 22 is like, had I known, maybe I could have snuck it, but I don't know that she would have had the resources. Had she known anyway, because she says in the audio that she doesn't have access to her phone at all times. She doesn't have her credit card. Like she wouldn't be able to pay filing fees. She wouldn't be able to do any of that because of her father. That's so, so sad. He does. He doesn't have her best interest in mind by any means. No, not at all. The question that I want to ask every single person that is listening

to this, could you imagine, close your eyes and could you imagine being a prisoner, you're paying to be a prisoner? No, that would be enough to make me lose my mind so that I would need a conservator, conservatorship. So the fact that she's as strong as she is right now and able to look at a judge in the face and tell what, tell the judge what, what is what is honestly impressive because I probably would have lost my mind. That's what I'm saying. Like imagine you financially supporting to be a prisoner. Nope. Makes no sense. And then people wonder why she posts the kind of stuff that she posts on her Instagram. It's probably the only outlet that she has to like express herself in any way for the

small amount of time that she probably has her phone. Absolutely. But I wonder if they even like check all of that as well. Oh, I'm sure. I feel certain that they check that stuff. It's so, it's so sad. Dame's mission is cultivating pleasure to enrich well being. Dame Products is a woman founded company making toys for sex that close the pleasure gap. They're developing tested by real people with volvas and team labs. They're engineered to bring your solo and coupled play to new heights. So they're making the world a happier place, one vagina at a time. And you all know that I got to do things by myself these days, which is completely fine.

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on this case. And one thing that I want to say about this before we even start talking about it is a lot of people, it was in the YouTube video that you sent me, but also a lot of people have the same confusion with this case with the Elizabeth Smart case. And in the YouTube video that you sent me, it said that there, you know, obviously no relation between Kristin and Elizabeth other than the fact that they share the same last name. But I think for whatever reason, media-wise, anytime I had ever heard Kristin Smart, I don't know why I just like assumed that that was Elizabeth Smart. Yeah, same. I didn't even, but like I know, I know the name is not Elizabeth and like

they're not the same name, but any, anytime someone has said Kristin Smart, I immediately went to the Elizabeth Smart stuff. So I don't, I was a little bit shocked by this whole story because once, as soon as I found out about it was like, boom, it hit me in all the facts, all the details, all the everything. And I was like, Oh wow, okay. So this has been going on for a long time. And a lot of people do know about this, but maybe other people are also confused. People had written in and asked us for, for quite some time since we've been covering true crime stuff for us to talk about the Kristin Smart case. And I just kept thinking,

okay, we'll get to it. Like it's Elizabeth Smart. Everyone knows about it already. Like we'll get to it. It's on the list. And then we go to slow like a couple of weeks ago. And when I get picked up from the airport, sitting in the drive through and in and out and the girls that picked us up, we're talking about the Kristin Smart case and asked if we had covered it on the podcast. And we're telling me like all about it. And by the time Kale got to the hotel, she and I were talking about it. We're like, we have to cover it. So here we are. And just to add to that, I saw the billboard with the reward with my own two eyes while

we were there. Where was I? You were in the car also. I know you had to have seen it unless I was on the way back from, I don't know, maybe you had to have been in the car. Literally didn't see it. Why didn't you tell me? Like that's, I don't know, that's literally evidence that you didn't tell me about. Okay, well, we wouldn't make a good lawyer team then. No, we wouldn't.

So Summer, have you heard of this case before we asked you to cover this with us or you hadn't? So I had heard of this case, but I didn't know a lot of details, right? I just knew the gist of it, that this girl went missing from college and was never found. And then more recently, when, you know, Paul Flores and his father were arrested, what in April, that's when I started to find out more about it because I was thinking why after 25 years is this case finally getting traction? I didn't even know, I didn't hear about any arrests or anything like that. When I tell

you that I just found out about this case last, what, two, three weeks ago, I'm not kidding. I didn't know who Paul Flores was or anything like that, but like Lindsay, I've gone down some rabbit holes. So this happened in 1996. Kristen and two other students on campus were walking back to their dorm. It was Memorial Day weekend. She was 19 years old at the time. And this was at Cal Poly University from everything that I have looked up and anything that has been covered about this case stated that Cal Poly was known to be like a super safe school and area. And that stuff like this just really didn't happen. And Kristen was a very kind,

funny driven, like smart girl and that she had aspirations to like be an architect. And then I think there was some stuff talking about how she really enjoyed traveling and you know, thought maybe she wanted to be a reporter or something like traveling the world. And one thing that I found very upsetting about this case is I tried to think about like if I had a child that was in college and something God forbid something like this happened that the campus police were so just aloof and unconcerned about anything. But then everything that I kept watching kept saying that it was such a super safe area that this just wasn't something that would have happened. So it wasn't something that

they were used to so maybe that plays a part of it. And weirdly, it really upset me that Paul Flores was wasn't a suspect from like day one. Oh, I thought he was a suspect from day one. No. They didn't interview him. What was it summer like they didn't interview him for like a while. It was it was a day or so if I recall, it was almost two weeks like 1213 days somewhere around there was a while. Yes, they had initially interviewed him just because they interviewed everyone who saw her that will that walk home with her that night. But they didn't really have any suspicion after that.

I just also want to add on to Lindsay's narrating, which I love by the way, that Kristen Smart came from a really good family. It said that her parents were super supportive and her she was close with her siblings. And so that also is just like, I mean, as from what we saw, it was a close knit, like slow is pretty close knit, everyone knows everyone. It's really homie there. And I don't I don't really like California that much. But that area, the central coast is super nice. And I think just knowing that she came from a really good family to adds to, you know, that point. Yeah. And I know that it said that she was a pretty independent individual and that she

was free spirited. And I think that it said on between the Paramount plus the 48 hours is where Kale and I saw it. And if you guys want to watch it, it's on Paramount plus 48 hours, season 33 episodes 16 and 40. But it might have been on one of the YouTube links that you sent me Kale that she talked to her parents every Sunday. And the reason that it wasn't a red flag to her mom was because it was a holiday Sunday was like within that holiday weekend. So that she thought that maybe she would call on Monday. And because her personality was kind of like independent and free spirited, it wasn't really a red as much of a red flag is what some people may think. But she wanted a party and her

friend didn't want to go to, you know, any type of party or anything. She said that she was tired and Kristen didn't have a purse. She didn't have money. She didn't have like her ID. She didn't have keys. I think it said that she had actually lost like her key to get into the building. And so the next morning she goes out, she, she parties and we can get into that a little bit later. But the next morning her roommate waited to hear from her and didn't. And by the time they called Cal Poly Campus police, Kristen had been missing for already more than 48 hours by the time anybody ever called. So I think that's also so insane. I, I feel bad because her friend, Margarita, um, on the interview that I watched

um, was saying how she had felt super guilty for leaving her friend. And um, I can't imagine like what that would have felt like, but she said she knew right away in the morning that she had never actually come home. Oh, she did say that. Yeah. She said that everything was still there untouched. So she had left all of that stuff in the dorm from, from the night before. So I guess that's how, how she knew that like she hadn't been back. Is that, is that right? Yeah. She was saying that she thought that she would go in the room. This is what Margarita was saying that she thought she would go in the room and Kristen would be there and give her her key back. Um, because she had borrowed Margarita's key for the dorm

and she went over there and it was, everything was the same. And um, so that's how she knew that she wouldn't, that she hadn't been back at all. Um, but I, I don't understand some of the laws when it comes to like reporting a missing person. Um, because some other cases I've also heard that if it's been less than 48 hours, they can't report a missing person. And if they're an adult, I think in summer, you might know better than I do, but um, I've heard like an adult, they won't put a missing report out for a long time because again, it's like they could take their things and you know, disappear essentially by choice. Um, and so they won't do anything about it. I think that is weird though, because the police

in any given place are not going to know a person the way that a person's family knows them. And so I don't, it's weird that they wouldn't have done anything even if they aren't used to this and they thought that maybe she was, you know, a college girl looking to party or maybe she was out with friends or whatever. Like I just, I do find it a little weird that they didn't even try. Right. I mean that rule to me those first 48 hours before declaring someone as a missing person is the most ridiculous rule in law enforcement and my personal belief, because if you've ever watched the show, the first 48, you know, has to deal with murders. They

say if you don't really solve the case in the first 48 hours, you really have no chance of solving it after that. Like you have a very slim chance. So why doesn't that same idea apply to missing people? I get they might come back and I get that police resources are limited, but if a family or friends are saying this is completely unusual, why not declare it a missing person then and start looking into it. Right. Right. I think there's a lot of things that come into play here because, okay, so the mom gets her names, Denise, she gets called from the campus police, um, trying to locate Kristen and then at that point, the parents, she's been missing for 48 hours at this point.

The parents try to file missing persons report with the police, but we're told that it was like you're saying too early and that the F and the FBI also told them that the campus police were in charge. So I think a lot of this has to do with jurisdictional stuff like who's in charge of this investigation. And I think maybe it might have been different had the local police or the FBI been involved in the campus police didn't have jurisdiction. Well, okay. So to that point, I'm thinking back to an incident that I had at my college and the same thing, same, same type of situation was the, the Dover police could not get involved in campus police had to deal with it. But if you ask me, I feel like, and please nobody

wipe my head off for this, but I feel like there is absolutely 1000% not enough resources for any college police to actually have the resources to investigate something like this. So I could understand if they like brought it to like the city or the town's police department, but you can't expect a college campus police situation to like solve a missing persons case. So that should have never, that should not be a thing in a missing person on campus situation, it should be handed over directly to the city or the town or whatever that looks like. Absolutely. I completely agree with that. I mean, at my university for undergrad, our

campus police were only good for writing parking tickets. So literally, literally. Well, and in this case, the campus police didn't didn't even act right away. It was four days later. And they again did not focus on Paul Flores and they didn't seal his dorm room with this being a holiday weekend. The the room, I guess it was like people, what was it summer like moving out of the dorms. And the rooms were being sanitized by cleaning crew and campus police basically just because of how they handled this, they botched the entire case in my opinion. And then to make matters worse, they implied that Kristen's behavior contributed to the disappearance. It was a whole victim shaming issue. And I

just I don't see how if a young girl at 19 years old goes missing and whoever her accountability partners are on campus, whether that be her roommate, her, you know, close friend, whatever, or her parents didn't hear from her on the normal time that they would have heard from her weekly, I feel like that's enough to know something's wrong, right? I mean, that's how I feel. I mean, I'm thinking back to the 90s, they probably didn't have cell phones, maybe a pager, if that right, I just this was it was so frustrating to me that the way that they handled everything, I think had they handled it differently from the jump that it could have been solved. Yeah, agreed. I do think it I did think it was a

little bit interesting, though, that if there was any evidence in Paul Flores's dorm room, any type of blood or things that he might have gotten off of her, like whether it be clothes, jewelry, anything items that she might have had with her, there must have not been anything super significant. Otherwise, I don't know if I'm a part of a cleaning crew and I see blood or things that just seem weird, I feel like I would report it and not clean, continue cleaning. So I just don't like I'm not sure how I feel about that. Okay, so in the 48 hours documentary, I can't remember which episode it was, but it was saying how when Paul Flores was interviewed by the campus police, he was asked how he got a

black eye and he insisted that he got it while playing basketball with friends. And then his friend was interviewed and his friend said that he had already had it. And Paul had told his friends that he had woken up with it, but then later admitted to lying. And so if you would lie about something so small, and there was multiple lies that he told that he got caught telling, I just don't understand why you would need to lie about those little things, like obviously you did it. Like no one just wakes up with a black eye or, you know, and then you're gonna lie, maybe he maybe he lied thinking that they wouldn't interview the friends. I don't know, like I'm not somebody who does stuff like this. So I can't get in the mind of, you know, this

person. But what also was interesting was that they brought in the cadaver dogs, is that what they're called? Yeah. Yeah. And the dogs had no reaction until they got to Paul Flores' room. And then they brought in three more dogs that confirmed the same, the same pattern, like went to the same part of the map, the end of the mattress in Paul Flores' room. So that's why they were suggesting that, you know, it happened there. Oh, I'm not, I'm not saying that it didn't happen there. I guess I'm just, it's more of like a question of the cleaning crew's character. If they saw things, which I'm sure they did, why they didn't report it. And I mean, surely they, if they saw a significant amount of blood, surely they wouldn't have just cleaned it up.

Well, I want to know, at least I would hope not. And maybe, maybe he, he cleaned it up as best he could. And then, you know, I mean, I'm just trying to think like if, you know, there was blood on there, maybe they thought that like somebody had a busted lip or a busted nose or something like that. If everything else was cleaned up, I mean, I don't know, I don't want to speculate. But what else was interesting to me was that Paul's roommate, Derek, claimed that Paul admitted to killing her and bringing her back to his mom's house. Well, okay, can we talk about the mom's house for a second summer? I don't know if you, if you watched any of the documentaries or anything, but I'm pretty sure it was a renter. I hope that wasn't, I hope that's not me miss, me miss speaking.

But I think it was a renter that ultimately like rents out Paul Flores' mom's house, or is it his mom the whole time? And then the renter like hears the beeping from her watch every single morning. Yeah, I heard that. And that to me is like, that was so chilling when I heard them talk about that. So the renter said that every say, I don't know if it was every night or every morning, but she would hear this beeping. So Kristen Smart was a lifeguard. And so she had an alarm on her watch that would go off at the same time. And the renter said that she would go out in the pitch dark looking for where the sound was coming from so that she could like get it and turn it off, which is absolutely chilling. Because if I rent a house or stay in an Airbnb or something and I

hear something like that, and I have like this feeling that there's a body under the ground, I feel like I would lose my mind. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so they were saying that around between 4.20 and 4.30 every morning, they would hear that beeping. And Kristen's parents had said that she would wake up around 4.30 every morning because she had to go pretty early to be able to be a lifeguard. You know, she would have to go to the pool super early to. And so when they when they started connecting those pieces, I was like, Oh, wow, this, this is crazy. And the renter, you guys also like hear about the earring that they found in the yard that matched the necklace that Kristen Smart had, but cops misplaced that earring and then tried to say it didn't look

anything like the way the renter was describing it, which makes absolutely no sense. They also, I feel like when they went to dig up the, I don't remember what the mom's name was, Paul's mom, they went to dig in the back and I just don't feel like they did like a thorough job. And then I think it was like several months later or several weeks later, they went to dig again. And again, I don't feel like based on the documentary, the 48 hours episode that I watched, I don't feel like they did a very good job or a thorough job doing that. And so obviously, there would be enough time and for them to pick up any pieces that they missed or hide the, re hide the body somewhere else. I don't feel like they did a thorough job at all. Okay, so back on these confessions, I guess,

another thing that I found interesting was that Paul's dad had told an acquaintance that Kristen was rolled up in carpet and concrete poured on top of her. And then an eyewitness across from Paul's mom's house said that two men were digging holes, filling them with concrete and that the object that they were moving was so heavy that it took two people to lift it. And then he didn't report it until he saw Paul's mugshot one week later. And then another neighbor said that construction was going on over there. So I just feel like there's so many different things in this case had things been handled differently and reported on timely that this would have been a solved case. I don't know how the parents are that deranged that they are willing and helping

their son hide a body. I don't know about you guys, but if one of my kids came to me and told me that they did something like that, so frickin heinous, I would be like, great, you're going to jail because I'm turning you in. I can never like, I don't know what the fuck went on in that household or what Paul's childhood looked like. But if and their his parents were separated or divorced, they were not together. So now you have both of your parents who are not even together essentially helping you cover up a murder. And then you sleep on it for what 25 years and act like it never happened. Right. Well, they waited two months, they waited two months to even search the family home. Right. I think so. There's a little confusion for me since the parents were

divorced and lived in separate homes, but close ish to each other, I guess. Didn't they search one person? I don't know who. And then yeah, it was like several months later than they searched the other parents home. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what I got from it, too. And I just odd to me. Why wouldn't you search both at the same time? I don't know. Well, and maybe do it thoroughly so you don't have to go back. The fact that they went back to re dig up a yard and concrete and things like that, like obviously, after the first time, they're going to make sure that they're on their P's and Q's and clean up any other evidence, you know, that they may or may not have left. I actually never do you guys know like what was the deciding factor that they were

going to arrest Paul Flores and his father because I didn't get to that. So I was actually just reading about this earlier. And they haven't come out and said anything directly. And I think that's all for a good reason, right? Because we see what happens when the media gets a hold of really important evidence and what that does to cases. And so they have a preliminary hearing next month, which is going to take 12 days. And the judge has decided that it cannot be like, audio passed it or webcasted because of the importance and how confidential the evidence needs to remain in order for it to be a fair trial. Okay, so I love that. I mean, that's I love that. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, maybe this judge has actually learned something from all of these high

profile cases that they, you know, that the media gets a hold of. So honestly, I think that's a good decision. Right. So I think eventually we will know. But I think obviously it's going to not be until the trial that we actually find out, which in my opinion, if you're arresting someone after 25 years, there has to be something there that's really compelling, right? Because if you've had suspicions about this person for 25 years, and you're just now able to arrest them, they found something, right? Like something has to be there. Some sort of concrete evidence in my mind that's like, Oh, they really had something to do with her murder, because they arrested them for murder,

right? It wasn't any, well, and I guess I heard about this too, is that realistically, any other crimes, the statute of limitations have run. So the only thing they could arrest for was murder. Okay, so I, I did hear from someone that I talked to in San, is it San Louis or San Louis? San Louis, but I also San Louis of this well, in slow, I heard that they arrested one person told me that they arrested Paul Flores on like sexual assault charges, or like he was like sexual harassment, like multiple women had come forward. And then someone else told me that they arrested him because they had enough evidence that he like there was enough evidence that a body was in his mom's yard. So I got two different stories from like people in slow.

So I did read, and this was by a court document that was like accidentally leaked, whoever leaked it probably did it on purpose, that whatever like imaging technology they used to look under the ground, I guess had identified some part of human remains or something to connect then to the murder of Christian smart. But from what I understood, it wasn't like they dug up and found it. It was like they said it was just like imaging technology. And like, I mean, I don't really know what that all entails. But it sounded like they had something pretty solid to go on. And I guess at the hearing next month, that's what the judge is going to decide is this evidence, evidence strong enough to hold them and move forward with the murder trial. I wholeheartedly hope that this

has eaten at Paul Flores and both of his parents for 25 years. Like I like that they have it has to have like I just based on like the clips I would see of like when people would try to talk to him or his parents and they're demeanor about it. I mean, to me, it looks like somebody who was like riddled with just anxiety and like nerves and on edge all the time. And why would you be that way if you didn't have anything to do with her disappearance? Right. Like or even just being like angry and mean, because you know, that would harden somebody, right? Like if you're living with the guilt and on the edge of your seat at all times, and you're always looking over your shoulder because you might get caught and things like that, that would harden somebody and make

them angry and mean. And I don't feel like they had any emotion. Like, again, if I put myself in those shoes where, you know, my kid, my son is being accused of something that they didn't do, and I'm being interviewed for it, I'm going to be crying. I'm going to be emotional. I'm going to be, you know, sympathizing with, you know, the other family. I wouldn't be hardened and rude and cruel and kind of have that weird demeanor that they, you know, I don't know. Right. My instinct would to be, would be to be as helpful as I possibly could be if my child had nothing to do with it. Agreed. I do want to take a quick second to talk about my skin really quickly. You guys have been on this

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who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply, see website for full details and important safety information. To Summer's point when she said that it must be something substantial in the YouTube video, the YouTuber's name is Kendall Ray, that covered this. She was talking about how because there was no body, no weapon found that it made it very hard to make an arrest. So it has to be something that is very, very compelling evidence for them to be able to do this after 25 years. I wonder though if could it be like an OJ Simpson situation where OJ is now in jail for something else? Like could it have been the other women coming forward for sexual assault? Actually, I don't know. I don't think so. I think that there's definitely evidence of

something. Obviously we won't know what it is and Summer, how does that work? Like they have court, will we find out like after court or they'll keep everything sealed or what? My best guess is they're going to try to keep everything sealed. Something else that I read was part of the judge's reasoning for that is because he didn't want to taint the jury pool, which is an issue we saw with Scott Peterson and the reason that Scott Peterson's case is having all these issues because of the jury pool. And I think that this judge in this case for Paul and Ruben Flora is like he wants to make sure that that doesn't happen. Because everyone, if you didn't know about this case, you know about it now. Like it's pretty prevalent in the media right now, I think, because it's been 25 years.

And so I think they're doing the right thing by keeping things under wraps so that way they can choose an unbiased jury, which makes sense to me. But I think, you know, obviously, once the trial comes around, I think we're definitely going to hear about the evidence. But I'm sure something will be leaked at this hearing next month. Something is always leaked, right? Like you just really can't get around that these days. So I think and maybe I hope for my own selfish reasons like that we get something. Yeah, I hope so too. I did want to speak on Paul Flora's character. There was just a couple of things that not that this is any excuse to, you know, be a participant or a murderer by any means. But he had a reputation that of being a creeper. And yeah, people often

called him Chester the molester and were scared of him. And that he had previously been accused of like stalking another student. And I believe at the party that they were at the night that she went missing, that he had been hitting on other girls as well, and that they turned him down. So I just, I wonder like, if this was, we talk about crimes of passion and was, did he do this out of frustration? Like what was the motive behind why this happened? Summer, is there, because I feel like that's a question in a lot of cases is like, what is the motive? And if there is no motive, that they don't necessarily put somebody up on. Like maybe if they don't have a motive, they can't truly be a suspect. But like in a case like this, to Lindsay's point, what would be the motive and

can they still put him and essentially convict him if there was no motive? I think a motive typically makes it easier to convict someone, right? Like in certain cases, if you don't have a motive, it just makes it harder to prove, right? And if there's a lack of motive, it kind of goes to like casting doubt in a jury's mind. You can definitely still convict someone even without proving a motive, Ian Scott Peterson, again, but which is also weird just for the record, Scott Peterson also into Cal Poly. And for a brief time what people had considered if he had anything to do with Kristen Smart. I remember this, yeah. But like going back to his motive, my opinion is because he was super creepy and he had been

hitting on all these girls and he was always turned down by girls. And one of his ex-girlfriends, who like kind of remained anonymous, you know, even she said that like he got abusive with her after a certain point. And so I think he saw Kristen as an easy target because she was drunk. People were saying she could barely hold herself up and walk that night. I think he finally found an outlet to, this is really sick to say, but like get what he wanted out of her. And I think that maybe in his mind, because to me, it seems like he's a sick person based on all the reports by all these women over the years of his demeanor, I guess he just took it too far, you know? He got what he wanted and he just kept going. And I think that that just ended in murder. Like he

couldn't be satisfied until he had taken her life. Like that's sort of where my mind goes when I think of this. Because why else would you not have killed her, do all these things? It said that he actually like hardly even knew Kristen. And so I don't necessarily know if it had as much to do with Kristen as it had to do with the power of getting what he wanted. Because in that YouTube video that I watched, it was talking about how he was hitting on all these girls at this party and that he was denied repeatedly and would not take no for an answer. And that Paul Flores was standing outside of the bathroom when this guy Trevor was coming out and Paul started interrogating him. And then it mentioned in this YouTube

that all the guys at this frat house were seemed to be interested in Kristen because she was an athlete, she was tall, she was beautiful. And maybe he just saw how intoxicated she was, how interested these other guys were in her. And then he gained interest. And it seems to me like he had a very possessive type personality. And maybe this was just like a straw that broke the camel's back after being denied, denied, denied, denied. And then he finally snapped. I think that that's what happened. I mean, he definitely saw something he wanted and he took advantage of the opportunity. And based on how everyone else was saying she was and how drunk she was, when her and the other students first started walking back towards the dorm, they found

her passed out in the neighbor's yard because she was so drunk. And I think that he saw in his mind finally someone who didn't have the ability to really say no. Right, which is even more disgusting. Absolutely terrible. And these types of stories of men who prey on drunk girls, it's not new, right? Like I have had friends that that has also happened to you hear it all the time. So I definitely think that that's what started it. But this man just went full psycho, not that he wasn't already psycho, but he just exhibited and executed his psycho behavior. Well, immediately when they started walking back, he kept telling the other friend that and mind you, he hardly knew Kristen from what this YouTube said. So hardly knew her, but kept trying to convince her friend to go ahead and

walk ahead. And he was already trying to make advances to her, like he was hugging on her and stuff saying that she was freezing and he was like giving her hugs. And he, I think at that point, he had our he saw some vulnerable a girl in a vulnerable situation and took advantage of that. And I just wonder if there was any type of like date rape drug that was involved in this that caused her to she was passed out on a lawn. So and the party didn't end until 2am. So it just makes me wonder if there was any type of like date rape and she wasn't all there. And then maybe when this altercation started happening that she, you know, was like coming to obviously somehow his eye got black at some point. So she obviously put up some type of fight.

Right. You know, I didn't think about that. I didn't think about the possibility of some other substance being involved. I mean, I think that that is a very real possibility. And the unfortunate thing is that we will never know because even if they do ever recover her, it's been too long for them to be able to test anything to know, but I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be shocked if we ever found out that that was the case. And then what was really weird too, I mentioned earlier that he lied just like about stupid stuff like his black eye. I mean, obviously he's trying not to get caught in this. But to me, it's very obvious what went down and how this happened. But he also lied about calling his sister and the phone record shows that he called her at 8.59 PM.

So why would you lie about that? Yeah, I don't see it. That's just where it just people who lie and can't get their story straight and do so for a reason, right? We don't know what the exact reason is, but in their mind, they try to make it make sense because they're trying to make themselves look innocent, right? But anytime you lie about something, your story doesn't add up or you change your story, like it always gets found out. I've never seen that work out for anybody. I mean, it just, I don't know, he lied or he would have pulled information. I mean, did you guys, so did you know about like his deposition that he gave in the civil suit? Yes, yes. Were he pled the fifth every single thing? Even when they asked what his mother's name was, what his father's

he was invoking 26 times, 26. Okay, I was close. I thought it was 27 times. Yeah, which was psycho to me. I mean, and in civil cases, I mean, you can definitely leave the fifth in civil cases, right? Because that stuff does go on the record and because it's on the record, it can be used against you in a criminal proceeding. But it doesn't necessarily have the same effect. If there was never any criminal proceedings against you pleading the fifth in a civil case, doesn't really do much. But at least in Texas, a jury can make inferences when you plead the fifth. So I'm almost positive that during his trial, this is going to get brought up into evidence and the jury can make their own inferences. So if they want to think that he's guilty based on the fact he pled the

fifth on every question, they can think that. What would be someone's reasoning for pleading the fifth on asking for like date of birth or parents' names or things like that? Like why would an attorney advise that? Maybe because he was afraid. Maybe in my opinion, I think that he was afraid that he would say too much on any question that was asked. So he probably advised him to go in there. He or she, I don't know, probably advised him to go in there and just plead the fifth to everything because legally he can. And then he, he's not at jeopardy for anything. So my thought in the reason is that because his lawyer, who was his lawyer in the civil case also, he's actually a criminal lawyer. And so I think that there was a reasoning behind that because

if this lawyer knew that he did have something to do with her disappearance, obviously he can't disclose that. So he's just going to get him to shut up the entire time. And other than saying his name was Paul Flores, he's not saying anything else to anybody, which again, to me points to guilt. I 100% agree. 100, 1000% agree. I think there was two takeaways from, well, lots of takeaways, but like two of the main takeaways from this case for me is that anyone who's listening, young girls that are in college, any, any woman really is the importance of using the buddy system. I think what we see here is that this could have ended very differently had she been with her friend and not been left alone. I hate to say this, but like not been left alone with a guy that they

really didn't know. And then I think that even though this is so horrible and that a family lost a loved one, that the Kristen Smart Campus Safety Act became a California law in 1998. And that requires campus and local police departments to have a joint plan to handle investigations of violent crime on campuses. And it's so horrible to say that it takes something like this for these laws to be created. But I think that's a great thing. Yeah, for sure. I think to your point about the takeaway is like, the buddy system is not just for like swimming and kids, it's, it should actually apply to adults too, for sure. Yes. Absolutely. You just never know, you know, who's around you or, you know, who's praying on you.

And I always say this to everyone be extremely aware, especially as women. And it really sucks that as women, we have to, you know, send your friend a text, let them know you made it home or ride home together, even if it means someone's going out of their way. It really sucks that we have to do that. But it is all, in my opinion, for a good reason, because I would never want anything to happen to anyone that I know, because we weren't using the buddy system or letting someone know your whereabouts. Right. And I hate, you know, I hate to say like this case would, this would have ended completely differently had they used the buddy system. Who's to say that this didn't end differently. And, you know, both of them end up compromised

or something. But I think it's just always safer when you're with someone that you know, and even though, you know, you might not want to be dealing with your drunk friend and you might not want to be, you know, dealing with that and you might just want to be going to bed. But I think it's so much safer when you just have somebody that you know, no matter how frustrated you are and just really, I can't stress the importance of the buddy system enough. Yeah, 100%. I agree. Well, this was fun guys. Yes, it was. Thank you guys. If you guys have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast, make sure you follow us there on Instagram. And if you have not subscribed to us, you can do that by searching the purple podcast app on any Apple

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