Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 169: Vacation Styles, Therapy For All, and Natural Consequences

Episode Date: July 8, 2021

On this week's episode Kail and Lindise are embracing summer and talking about vacation styles! As Kail prepares to leave for a two week vacation she is looking forward to all of the pre-planned activities she has scheduled. But Lindise is the total opposite when she goes on vacation, preferring to just relax and see where the trip takes her. Are you more of a Kail or a Lindsie when it comes to vacationing? And Lindsie and Kail have both been working on themselves in therapy, and they think everyone could benefit from some good therapy. Mental health is for everyone! Plus Kail and Lindsie are continuing to learn about gentle parenting and have been trying to rely more on natural consequences to try and help their kids learn and listen.   This episode was sponsored by: Credit Karma, Title Nine, Paramount+, & HGTV Obsessed Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

Welcome back to Coffee Combo's podcast, Lindsay. It has been literally a week since I've talked to you because you have been MIA. I know. Why do I get like that? Honestly, I think sometimes it's healthy to like just take a step back and not collect other people's energy when you need to like focus on something in your life, even if it's not something specific, but just like needing some space. So I just really didn't want to bother you with a whole lot of shit. Well, actually, that's so true because I was talking to someone yesterday that was like when you need like a couple of moments to yourself and like you're going through like

heavy life stuff. Sometimes it just clouds your judgment when you have opinions coming from all different angles and those opinions might not all be the same that's coming to you. So you're so right. Sometimes it's just, it's just best. I've been watching a lot of lifetime. So you know what, you and lifetime have like a bond, I think, because anytime I think of lifetime, I think of you like you love lifetime. You know what, you're not the first person that's ever told me that and that's an honor actually. Maybe you need your own lifetime special. I don't know. Maybe maybe we'll get one. Remember how you were like, your dream was just that you wanted to be like on an ID life special

or something? Yeah, you said that like a way long time ago. Oh, I even if I die of natural causes, I want a whole 2020 special about how it could have been murder. Like I just stop. I feel like that would be like, I don't know, like let's hear people's conspiracy theories in your little kit that you have of like all the suspected people. Yes, if I go missing file 100%. So tell me about your morning. Oh, okay. So first let me start by saying that I am a little bit heated this morning because I had Natalie's friend has a daughter that was going to braid Lux's hair today. So Chris had asked to keep Lux for the week because we

were going on vacate, we're leaving for vacation on Sunday. I said, cool, I'm just going to make sure that I come get him on Wednesday to take him to his hair appointment. And he was like, all right, so I go drive the 45 minutes to get Lux because he they were at the gym. I drive another 20 minutes to the appointment. And as I'm sitting there, the girl cancels. Oh, wow. So now I'm even more pissed. So I call Chris and I'm like, Hey, I need like, do you know anyone that can braid his hair right now? And I'll take him. If not, like I got to figure this out because I want it. I one, I like to keep it braided for when

he goes to Chris's so that Chris doesn't have to deal with it. Two, I wanted it to be braided for when we leave for vacation so that also it could be just like nice and like put together for when we get there. Yes. He's like, okay, I have someone that can braid it. But can you stop at the store? So here's my thing. And I don't this is not to bash him, but I'm kind of annoyed that if he had somebody that he knows that braids on a regular basis, why is she not doing it already? Why am I setting up another appointment to go take him to someone else when you have him and you know somebody on your time? Do you get what I'm saying? Like, I don't mind taking him to get braided if nobody knows anyone that braids or if it's

on my week, but if you already have him and you know somebody, why are you not setting that up on your own week? Okay, anyway. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, back up. So have you and Chris had the discussion about wanting to have his hair braided on his weeks? Like, does he know that that's something that you would want him to take care of on his weeks and you take care of it on your weeks? Or is it just supposed to be like a understood or I guess for me, I just was thinking that it was understood, understood. Yeah, I don't like, you know what I mean? Like I just, um, yeah, I just thought it would be like understood. I don't know.

Yeah, that's my fault. That's my fault. I'll tell you, that's fine. So that is perfectly fine. So maybe you guys can have a constructive conversation about how he takes care of the braiding on his weeks and you take care of the braiding on your weeks and then there's no further discussion. I guess for me, it was like, if I just have to take care of it, if I just do it, I don't have to, he doesn't have to worry about it because I know like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like it's just like one less thing for him to worry about and I just, I get it. I get it. But yes, you're right. Yes, you're 100% correct. I should have a conversation with him about it. I just, I usually try to make sure that it, his, his

hair is braided before he goes, but this situation, it was braided and then I was like, well, since you're going to take him for the week, I would just come get him for the braid that he was supposed to have because he was supposed to be with me. Right. Right. Okay. Anyway, so moving on. Yes, I should have a, I should have a constructive conversation with him. So I'm going to work on that, um, moving forward. But so he's like, I have someone that can braid his hair right now. Like I just need you, you're going to have to go to the store and get the stuff. And I'm like, okay, fine. So I go to the store, I get the stuff and then he texts me again and he's like, um, I need you to stop and get him lunch too. And

I was like, okay, I knew that I had to be here at 12 o'clock to record with you. So I'm trying to like kind of get shit done. Right. So I'm, I'm at this point, I am an hour away from home and, um, I go through the drive through at Wendy's, which we don't, I don't even go to Wendy's down here. It was a Wendy's up by the, I was just went wherever I could. And I'm in the drive through and I shit you not. I was there for 30 minutes. I was in the fucking drive through. There was not a hundred cars in front of me, Lindsay. It was two cars in front of me. I don't understand why it took, I mean, whatever. It's just like a weird day for me. So anyway,

I told you about that time that I tried to take Jackson to school and I was trying to be nice mom. And I was like, yeah, we'll go get pancakes, all the things. And then there was like construction work, trucks in front of me. I mean, loading up everything that McDonald's had to offer. So yes, I've been there. I have been there. So I'm holding onto the food and he doesn't even eat it yet. And when I tell you the Wendy's is like right around the corner from the gym that I'm taking him back to for Chris. I mean, you could probably walk. I mean, it would be hot, but you could walk. That's how close it is. So I pull into the like development where the gym is, like not into the gym parking

lot, but like into like the industrial park and luck starts projectile vomiting all over my third row, like not even in my backseat. It was in my third row. And you guys know, I'm a little bit heavier than I've been in the past. I can't fit back there. Okay. So I'm calling Chris. He's in the middle of doing whatever he's doing at the gym. And I'm like, I need you to come find me. Like you're gonna, when you leave the gym and you start driving, you're gonna see me. I'm my doors are open. I'm pulled over on the side of the road. I had to take the car seat out to put the take one of the car seats out to put the seat up to get back there. So I could wipe it down. I had like a dirty beach towel back there,

probably Lincoln probably left it from his dads or something. And I'm trying to like wipe down what I can. I have bottles of water. I'm like stripping Lux down. We take luck, all of Lux's clothes off. He's down to his underwear. And I'm pouring water, like bottled water on him to get the throw up off so that we can at least put him in Chris's car to take him home. And I'm like, geez, I don't even think he was sick. I honestly think my driving made him car sick. Yeah, I can almost guarantee you as you're driving. Anyway, so I was like, okay, I'm I what do I do next? I text you and I'm like, okay, I'm going to be 15 minutes late. I still have to go home and like change my shirt because there's throw up on my shirt now because I picked him up.

And I'm filming at two o'clock. So I had to like get myself together so that as soon as I leave podcasting, I can go film. And I'm like, I don't even know like, it's not it's 12 o'clock. Like how did all of this happen? How did all of this transpire? Okay, so a couple of things. You didn't only text me that you couldn't record until like 1215. It was like four long texts. And when that comes through from Kale, you know, there's like something dramatic going on. And it's just like, Oh, God. Okay, yeah, we'll do all the things that you just said. Like, whatever. I knew something was going on, but I didn't want to ask questions. Well, so did the reject album get cleaned up or like, what's happening? I am having my friend who just started a new

company do it for me. I was like, I literally am leaving for two weeks in three days. So I need to when I'm done podcasting and filming and like cleaning my house, I still have to pack. So he's going to clean the car out and I'm going to give him some cash support small businesses. And he's going to clean it out while I pack and do all that because honestly, I needed to be cleaned out anyway, but the throw up just like magnified. Yeah, yeah, I feel you. I feel you. All right, guys, we're going to take a quick break to talk about one of our partners, Credit Karma. And I have a quick question for y'all, who doesn't want instant gratification? If you're looking for satisfaction, there is no need to wait with Credit Karma money,

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still podcast while I'm there. I think that would be kind of fun to podcast from another country. First of all, who goes, probably a lot of people actually, as I'm saying this, who goes to another country for two weeks for vacation? Like two weeks? I would go longer if the dads would let me. I get so homesick. Like you don't even have any idea. After I've been somewhere for like four days, I need to get home. I wonder what that is. I know a lot of people are like that. Like I know, and I know that when we went to slow, you, that was the longest you'd been away from Jackson. Yes. And I was homesick. Like I would have, would it have been different for you if he was with you? Like would you still feel homesick or no? It probably would have been better for me

because it was like the combination of not having him and then also not being at home. Okay. So yes, the short answer of that is yes, but like I just don't do well going places for long periods of time. Like for me, I think, especially for when I went to Hawaii two years ago and I had all the kids and now we're doing Dominican Republic and I have all the kids, it's a lot of work to get all of the kids to the place. So it would be really hard for me if I literally just settled in and say you go somewhere for a week, you lose two of those days for travel. So if I was to take a day of travel, get there and then I have five days there and then I have to turn around and come back with four kids, no matter how many people I have helping me, that's

a lot of work. So I mean, there is 15 or 20 of us going. So it's a lot of people, which is kind of fun. No, no. Yes. No, like I don't, I also don't really like vacationing with people. If I'm going on vacation, then I just want it to be like my family and that's really it. Like if I did a girl's trip or something and it was like specific for that, then that's one thing. But to like vacation. Well, this is kind of like a girl's trip. It's like a mom occasion. So only moms and kids are going like no significant others, no boyfriends, no men, with the exception of Natalie's son, Kaden is coming and he's 16. But with the exception of him, like it's me, all my kids, my best friend, Sterling, her kids, my friend, Sierra, her wife, and their

son. And I'm trying to think who Natalie and Kaden, I say Natalie and Kaden. And then Leah's coming the second week that we're there. So it's all like moms and or their kids. That's insane. I feel like that's very chaotic, but I also feel like you thrive in the chaos. So if you went on a vacation and did things like I did, you would pull your eyeballs out. Oh, 100%. The, the one thing that I will say that's cool about this is like Sterling and I haven't been on a vacation together since I want to say 2015, maybe 2016, we went to Puerto Rico together and that trip was also like 15 people and it was so much fun. This one, I already like, we already planned out every single excursion and like some of us

are doing some excursion, some of us are not, some of us are actually participating, some of us are watching, but like we all mapped that out and every excursion that we planned has up to 24 hour cancellation. So I will say that that kind of minimized the chaos, I think, you know what I mean? Cause it's like kind of already planned out. And then if we get there and we're like, we don't want to do it, we can cancel it. See, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not a thing. Not a thing. People who plan out like their entire vacations before they go, that sounds like a job to me. Well, I got a travel agent for that. Okay. So that is her job. That sounds so chaotic and like not fun to me. I know it's fun for other people who are listening who are just

like Kale, I'm sure like you guys have a great time, but my idea of a vacation is like going to an all inclusive in Mexico and like laying there and eating tacos and drinking a mojito while Jackson plays in the pool. And then we might go to like the water park down the way if we get ready to with no plan. And then we might go swim with the dolphins on the next day, but it's not going to be like pre-planned. And I like to sleep in and have like late breakfast and relax. I feel like you really get like all the experience out of your vacations and you're not relaxing at all. No, absolutely not. But is that a vacation? I guess because I love like, I know I've said it before, but like I love being able to like wake up at six or seven in the morning

in another fricking country and like taking it all in doing all the things and then coming back to my room or the Airbnb or whatever by like 7pm to like relax at night before we go to bed and then do it all over again. Like I love that. So I think part of why I do vacations may be the way that I do when I get homesick like I do is I have like severe social anxiety. And I think that that might be a contributing factor. And I don't like to be around a lot of people all the time. Like when we were in slow, for example, we had a really good time, but we're around a lot of people all day. And it stresses me out not because I'm not enjoying the time. It's just like, it's just like, I feel so tired and emotionally drained after I've been around so many people.

Okay. Yeah. No, I can understand that. I definitely understand that. So then going on a vacation with like 15 or 20 people, forget it. Like, you're like, I'm never doing that. I was never planning to do that. And you can never convince me to do that. Correct. Correct. If you ever want to go on just like a little relaxing vacation for like two or three days, I'm your girl. We can go have brunch and wake up late and go sit by the pool and get a little sun and then drink a little mixed drink. You can find me there, but you, I will probably never find you there. So, No, never. I mean, let me not say never. Cause I think if I was, if you were like,

Hey, Kale, do you want to go to Mexico? Like I really don't like to go to the same place more than once. Um, but if I was to go somewhere more than once, I would not probably explore it the same way that I did the first time, unless it's like Europe or something because Europe has so many things you can't do all of it in one week or two weeks. So if you were like, let's go to Mexico, I actually would do all of those things because I've already been there twice. Oh my gosh. So I need to know how many people who are listening, if you are a Kale or a Lindsay when it comes to vacationing and, um, do you visit same places multiple times? Because I find places that I love and we frequent there like as regulars.

I, you love Mexico. I know you love Mexico. I love Mexico. There's like specific places in Florida like resorts that we go back to like every year. Um, I just don't, I don't like change either. And if I find something that I like, it's like why, why go somewhere and risk the chance of not liking it when I know that this place is like really good and I'm going to have a good time and I'm not going to be stressed. Yeah. No, I think that's part, I think that's makes sense. I think a lot of people are probably like that. Like, I know some people have like that one place that they go every year. Like that's like their vacation spot. Um, and I love that too. I love that idea. Yes. So, um, anyway, well, moving on from that, have you had therapy since I talked to you last?

I did. I had therapy last Thursday. I also have therapy tomorrow morning at 9 30 in the morning. And, um, it's been really, it's been going really well. Like I'm actually applying things to my real life, but it's crazy because I keep saying like 18 months, it's been 18 months, it's been 18 months, but like now I feel like it's been probably 19 months, but I'm finally able to like apply what I'm learning to my real life. Like I feel like in the beginning it's not, you don't, you don't really know how to apply what you're talking about in therapy to real life. And now I'm finally in a place where I can do that. And I know, um, it's funny because like whenever there's like rumors about me online and stuff, like I feel like no matter what I do, I get blamed from like the

trolls. Like they're just never happy. I could literally save the entire planet from global warming and they'll find something wrong with me doing that. Right? Like, yep. But I'm learning how to apply like my therapy and what I'm learning to how I react to things. I know that in the past I've been kind of like explosive and, um, don't really know how to handle my emotions like knee jerk reactions kind of thing. And now I'm learning how to like take a step back, think about it, think about what I want to say and things like that. I think it's really hard when, um, I feel like you're a very passionate person, like your personality and you're passionate about like everything. Like you're convicted about your ways of thinking and you want to be heard. And it's hard. I think

sometimes when you're used to making fast decisions and you're reacting really fast to like not do that, but I think there's so much beauty in being able to just be able to sit back and be like, okay, this is the situation at hand. It's not going to kill me if I don't react right now. Um, I have time. I think that you also get trapped and feeling like you need to defend yourself and you need to be quick to defend yourself. And that's hard too. Yeah, I, I feel like I am constantly, um, immediately going into defense mode or, you know what I mean? Like having those defensive like reactions to things. Um, I will say that I'm getting better at it and I feel like I am taking a step back and taking a few days to like really decide and, um, I know, I want to talk about

something kind of specific, um, in a situation where like you would normally like say something transpires or happens and then you don't know how to navigate the situation. I'm the type of person that sometimes I will, in person, I might cry or out of frustration or be emotional or be angry. Um, I found that like if I write things out and like really outline like what my actual points are, my message comes across better than if I was to like do it face to face and be super emotional because even if I have my thoughts together in my head when I actually come face to face with somebody, my message might get lost in the sauce. And so taking a step back and like typing everything out, talking like talking it over in my head. And then if I was to send a text or something,

it's not out of like disrespect. It's out of like, I don't want my message to be lost. I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I want you to understand my feelings. And so, um, that's something that I haven't talked about in therapy because I do want to get to a place where I don't have to do that. And I want to be able to say things like talk about things in person, you know, but that's something that I need to work on moving forward is like now that I'm learning how to apply things, you know, and, and typing them out and spelling them out and making sure that everything gets across the right way. Yes. You know, because like, I think you have a better, like you're fine to tell somebody face to face without being emotional. Like you can be very matter of fact

and direct. I need to work on that. And it's not, it's, it's truly not something that's maybe trying to be disrespectful or avoiding confrontation. It's just, I don't want my message to ever get lost in the sauce. You know what I mean? I think there's a couple of things to say to this. So I think because of the security of being able to have text messages with technology now that a lot of people communicate way differently and aren't required to have that face to face conversation because they can do it all over a text message. And as much as I think in some situations that's a great asset to have, I think it's a detriment to our society as well because it allows people to have a crutch to be able to hide behind a text message to get their point

across. And they're not having to really communicate. Like, is that really communicating? Yes, you're getting a message across, but, but you personally, like you didn't, you didn't have to verbally communicate that. And I think that that's a big, that's a big issue today with a lot of people. I found myself in that situation. Sometimes it's just in a recent situation that it's just easier to take time and gather your thoughts over a period of time and put it in a like well thought out text message and send it versus having that conversation. And I think it just really depends on what the basis of the conversation is, right? Like are we talking, is this a personal relationship that you're going through something with a significant other? Is this a business

relationship that it might be better that it's in writing and not verbal? That way there's no he said, she said. It just, that's a good point that you just made, the he said, she said thing. And that goes for any relationship, friendship, business partnership, you know, like a romantic relationship. I think it's a double-edged sword. Like you can have it, whether it's an email or text message, you get all your points across through that message, but it takes away the human, I guess like the, I guess human. Yeah. The human aspect of the communication. Right. But then also on the flip side of it, you are taking out the he said, she said with here's the proof. This is the proof. This is what I said. And so sometimes certain situations, I think that's appropriate,

but others, I would agree with you that sometimes it's just not appropriate. It's kind of like, I've actually wanted to talk about it on here before and we just never, it's just never naturally come up in conversation of people breaking up with each other over text message and just like, like, where, where did this life take a turn that like that, that is sufficient? Like you have invested your time with this person. And the only thing you can do is send a text message and be like, we're done. I mean, if it's someone you dated like, maybe not, but if you're in a year long, two year long, or more relationship and you're breaking up over a text, I feel like that's kind of disrespectful. Shut up, Kale. That's something you would do. I probably wouldn't. I don't think

I would break up in a text. No, but back, back to the, to the point that we were talking about, I think that you also fear rejection. And so maybe you wouldn't be as quick. Maybe it's just easier for you to send the text message because you're not going to have to be personally rejected by like looking someone in the face and then them giving you any type of rejection from what you've said. And frankly, I just don't give a shit if somebody rejects me or not. I'm like convicted in my feelings, you know, I'm like, okay, this is how I feel. And this is what it is. And I'm not changing my mind. And this is what it's going to be. And we're going to move on one direction or the other. And I think you just have to get to that place. I'm getting there. I'm

definitely getting there. I will say that I have had a definitely had a problem with rejection. Like, I just, I would rather call myself out or end things before someone else ends them for me or hurts my feelings. But I'm now in a place where I don't take things so personally, like things that people might do or say, or even if, you know, say I was dating someone and they no longer wanted to date me, like I feel like I would do a better job accepting that now versus five years ago. Yes. But not a percent, not every people I hate when people are like, Oh, I'm not the same person I was six months ago. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. And it's like, no, you're not. But like, unless you're doing like actual therapy or the, the, the, the footwork to

like be better, you are the same person as you were last fucking week, like you are. Yeah. I mean, okay, I can, let's say in a hypothetical situation that people have been in this relationship and they break up and they work individually, each, they're each working on themselves. And then a year passes by and they get back together and it's like you're dating a completely different person. I think that that's possible, but people who, who make it like, okay, I changed over last night, like dude, you went to bed. Right. No, seriously though, like when people are like, um, you know, I'm not the same person I was six months ago. And it's like, unless you're doing work to make those changes, I, you are the same person you were six months ago. Like, do you know what I mean?

Yes. Yes. Actually, my friend said that to me yesterday or the day before. And he was like, you know, none of us are the same person we were, you know, whenever. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't agree with that because unless some significant changes have occurred in your life or some, you know, life changing situation or some, you started therapy, I just don't, I'm not buying that. I, I think that people can make small changes over a short period of time, but not drastic life changes. Like you're not a changed person overnight. I just, I don't, I don't believe that. Summer is here and everyone's getting ready for road trips, hauling the kids to activities and camps and spending as much time as possible outside. So luckily,

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After a year of being cooped up at home, it's time to let loose, take some risk and live it up. No one does that better than the singles on Love Island returning with a hot new season, July 7th. Watch as the Islanders head to Hawaii, pair up and try not to get eliminated while facing the ultimate temptation with the return of Casa more and new challenges that will test their relationships and friendships. Who's being genuine? Who's full of it? You decide who's going down and who goes home with love and cash. Plus don't miss Love Island exclusives on Paramount Plus, including live hits behind the scenes, footage and extra episodes. It's shaping up to be a summer of romance, passion and lots of drama. So watch the claws come out and the tears flow

with a new season of Love Island premiering July 7th on CBS and streaming on Paramount Plus. Head to paramountplus.com slash villa to try it for free. So anyway, you said that you were going to be filming. So is there any updates? That's what I was trying to avoid saying because I think I started to say something that would get me in trouble. So I was just going to leave a little cliffhanger for y'all and not get myself into some trouble. Got it. Got it. Um, I was looking on barstool and I saw this one article. It says depraved prison guard pleads guilty to having sex with an inmate in front of other prisoners. It says a California corrections officer convicted of having sex with an inmate

in a full view of other prisoners will spend 210 days in jail and then serve two years of probation. A 27 year old woman admitted to the crimes and her attorney claimed that her marriage was falling apart when she committed the acts. It was never her intention to bring any harm or danger to the employees in the jail or anyone in the jail. In addition to sex, she gave the in brick, the inmate razor blades and a cell phone. And she also tipped him off of cell searches at times communicated sensitive information to the inmate about individuals that were entering the inmates pod as well as times when the pod would be searched, cutting a hole in her pants to make it easier to have sex with an inmate and having intercourse and full view of 11 other

inmates is something only a depraved mind could come up with is what the, um, assistant county sheriff had said. And then she continued to make contact with the inmate for over a year, even after she was caught according to phone logs. It said the fact that she continuously calls has sexual explicit conversations with the inmate in question and even boast about the crimes that she carried out shows that she is incapable of owning up to her mistakes and will undoubtedly continue in the future. No disrespect intended to the prosecutors. Um, because we all know it was a tough time as it has been in law enforcement, but they really could stand to dial back the harsh rhetoric. It says that some might consider the prison guard cutting a hole in her pants

so that she can put on a live sex show for an audience of 11 inmates to be the work of a depraved mind. Um, I, I, I just can't understand. Like how did she cut the hole in her pants? That's not funny, but it's like, I wish you could see the look on my face right now because I'm honestly just blown away. It's not like you like accidentally fell in love with an inmate and like, I try, I really do try not to judge people because I just feel like when things are publicized, like how many of us have fucked up because it has, it was not publicized or on camera or on a TV show or in the news and people don't give a fuck. And then the second it's like publicized and like in the media, it's like we act like we're all innocent people. And so on one hand,

I'm like, okay, I can kind of understand like maybe falling in love with an inmate and like having a relationship when they get out, like, okay, like I'm not, you know, can't really judge that. But I mean, you're, you cutting your work pants in the crotch so that you can have sex with the inmate and then doing it in front of a, like I, I can't wrap my head around this one. Part of the article, it said her marriage was having problems. What did you expect her to do? Go to counseling, a couple's retreat, perhaps try some new wrinkles in the bedroom to spice things up. Like half the articles and cosmos suggest she did the only logical thing that she could do. She started having sex with a guy in front of prisoners in the jail where she

worked, gave her boyfriend weapons and a cell phone and tipped him off when his cell was being turned over so that, um, so that he could avoid getting in trouble for contraband, like any rational person would under their circumstances. This is totally understandable. Totally. Absolutely. I, you know what? I, yep. I just wonder how often things like this actually happen in, in prisons, like prison guards falling in love with inmates because I mean, I, I actually know a prison guard. So maybe we should get him on the podcast. Do you think he falls in love with inmates? No, he's married. Well, she was too. I want to see if we can get him on the podcast. I don't know if he will, but that would be really cool. I just would really like, like to know like

what the vibes are and if their personal relationships formed like with the guard and, you know, specific inmates, um, I would imagine a female guard in a male prison would be already like, I'm trying to think of the right words. It would already be like a thing that you would have to navigate because they're not used to seeing women. So, you know, any of them might be interested in her for that, for that reason alone. Um, one time somebody told me that if you ever visited a male, like a male prison that you have to dress like a way that isn't sexual, they can't like sexualize you or whatever because it's just like a cat calling in there. I have never been inside of a prison. So I don't even know. I've only seen it on like

shows and like documentaries and stuff. Um, I, and is it, is it a fair depiction on what you see on documentaries and on shows? You know, like, is that what it's really like? I don't, I think about like sitting in a cell for 23 hours out of the day. I don't even, it has to be what it looks like on TV. Like I don't even, although I do know someone in prison and like he calls me and, and stuff. And I just don't understand. Like what, do you have any details of the inside? I mean, no, I don't, but he can FaceTime me. And that's what's like weird is like, you're in jail. Aren't you supposed to not like, why are you FaceTiming? That's just so bizarre. But it's like through the jail FaceTime program. Jail FaceTime program. Like not like an iPhone. You mean? No, he didn't,

right. Like he didn't smuggle a phone in or anything, but like. I just want to know how people smuggle stuff in jail also. I think I honestly, and I don't know, I'm not speaking for all guards, but I have to guess that though the guards have to be looking the other way, because yeah, I mean, what are they doing, putting it in their asses? Like I don't know where, you know what I mean? Nothing's going up there for me. Nothing's going up there for me either. And I'm not swaddling nothing into prison for anybody. So call someone else. Oh my gosh, I actually got a message from a corrections officer and said, this was my personal Instagram, said, Hey, Kale and Lindsay, I'm a huge fan and listen every week, but never message until now

only because I feel like I can give insight on how inmates are treated. So the facility that she was placed in, this is talking about Glaine Maxwell, her being treated like every other inmate can be true if they believed that she was suicidal. They have two different approaches when they feel that way. One would be considered a constant watch where they are in an empty cell, which only contains a mat for them to sleep, a rip proof blanket and a rip proof gown for them to put on since clothes are removed for their safety. There's a camera on the wall so that the officer at the desk can constantly view them on a monitor and there is an officer placed outside their door as well. And the lights do not get turned off. The second approach is a close

watch where they are in a regular cell with a bed and no camera on the wall. They have all their clothes, the lights can be turned off and when they only check on them in 15 minute intervals, which from the documentary that I watched seemed like that's what they were doing. They were shining a light in her cell every 15 minutes. I'm assuming that's the one she was on, which is obviously a better option than the first one. So she technically is still treated like every other inmate who is considered to be a threat to themselves. Where visits are concerned, inmates are allowed a visit up to three times a week at my facility. Some facilities, it's only once or twice a week. Once you get into a fight or do something that breaks the rules, then you are

placed in a unit where you are not allowed any visits for up to 30 days or until your charge gets seen. Once your charge for fighting or whatever is reviewed, then they can either be cleared from all the charges or go back to the regular unit with visits three times a week or charges are upheld and they go to the hole where you only get to visit through a glass once a month. So I hope that cleared up your questions. If you have any other questions or need me to clarify something, just let me know and please don't mention my name. I don't blame her for not wanting her name mentioned. I do have one comment to that point about the two options for Suicide Watch. I just want to know, I know that prisons are essentially a business and I don't think

a lot of people know that most prisons are privately owned and it's, there's a lot that goes into it. So I am curious to know for like prisons that have like rehabilitation in like implemented into them, if that's like a few and far between and secondly, if someone is on Suicide Watch and they're concerned about their mental health, are they getting appropriate attention and like care for that? Like are they seeing a therapist? Are they seeing a psychologist, a psychiatrist, anything? Like I just would be curious to know if they're like, along with those Suicide Watch watches, are they also being cared for in that way? I also question in this specific situation why she is considered like Suicide Watch.

Is it strictly because of Jeffrey Epstein or is it because of something that we don't know about? Hmm, that's a good question. I think certain circumstances can test people and challenge, you know, where they're at mentally. So I'm wondering if maybe that would be something that she would consider, maybe she would consider that now given the circumstances and the situation. Maybe she hasn't always been, I don't know. It's hard, we can guess all day, but I just would, yes, she did horrible things, but I just, if her or anyone else is on Suicide Watch in prison, like I would just hope that they're also getting mental health help. Remember you and I actually talking about this, we never talked about it on the podcast, but

how mental health in prison seems to kind of just go, not kind of, but just go to the wayside, like it's not something that people that are in prison are really helped with with their mental health and it's concerning because it sets them up for failure whenever they get out. Right, but that's what they want. That's the business part of a prison, like a privately owned prison is like, they know that they're going to come back. And that's just so sad. Oh, I agree. I wholeheartedly agree with that because I do think that there are people who, there are good people who make mistakes and then there just are evil people, but I think they're,

when we, we're not giving, you know, some people who are willing to change and want to change and want to move forward and do those things, we're not giving them the rehabilitation that they need in order to be successful and productive people and citizens outside of prison. So yeah, when it comes to that, I just, it's, I don't understand it. I'll never understand it. And I'm not sleeping at night. If I'm collecting money as a business through other human lives going to prison and I'm thriving off of that. Like, you know what I mean? Like I couldn't sleep at night if that's what I was doing. So I just, I don't know. Like I wonder, I wonder like what kinds of like, I know Kim Kardashian was working on prison reform for

a little while. Wasn't she? Yeah. And I think still, like it's still like a, a thing that she's constantly working at working at. Yeah. I just think that there's definitely got to be a better way than the way that it's done. And like you said, it's for profit. And that's just sad that human lives are jeopardized for a business to be profitable. And really like the whole point of prison should be like a time out for people to be like, okay, these are things that you've done that are like very wrong and you need to pay consequences for these things. But while you're paying these consequences, we want to help you so that when you do get out, you can be successful and you can be a changed person, but it's not set up that way.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I agree with you. And that's just so sad. As you know, Kale and I are absolutely obsessed with home building and home renovation. And that is why we wanted to recommend a new podcast that we recently started listening to and it's HGTV's official podcast and it is called HGTV obsessed. Even if you don't watch HGTV, this is a podcast that has tips on literally everything you need to know about decorating or renovating or just to make your space better. And they have all of these HGTV experts and hosts that give amazing tips on how to make really simple improvements on a budget. They give advice on how to prep a house to go on the market, how to shush up an apartment on a low budget and how to start growing an indoor

vegetable garden, which is amazing. My kids would love that. I personally have learned so much on how to source the best kind of vintage furniture, the little renovations that go a long way when you're selling a home, small design tricks that can really up level your space without spending any money. They just did a wedding episode and if you're in full planning mode, they have all the advice on where to spend, where to save and what to DIY. As you guys all know, decluttering and organizing is something that I love to do and I love to be super organized, but I have a really hard time executing it and they have a way that actually makes sense for you or how to find your own personal organizing style. So I think that that is really great. Ben and Erin Napier were on

there talking about hometown, David Bromstad on Pride and bringing your full authentic self to what you do. Tiffany Brooks host of 50,000 Three Ways on How to Decide What to Renovate in Your Home and the Property Brothers episode which aired July 1st. The podcast is just absolutely amazing. So if you guys are interested, you can listen to HGTV Obsessed on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I have another listener message that I saw and I just wanted to read it. She said, okay, my boyfriend and I lived together and found out that he was cheating on me so I kicked him out. He could also be physically abusive. When I tell you this boy sat outside my apartment door every day, we were together for six years, so he pretty much knew my schedule to a

tea. I would come home late at night for my waitress shifts, exhausted, pull up and see him sitting there. I was afraid of him, so I would just drive off and sleep in my car. One night I got home, he wasn't there, so I went in and I thought, yay, I had a car with a number code to get in if you didn't have your key. He must have used that to get in, stole my registration, my great-grandmother's rosary beads and took a shit on the driver's seat. Please keep my name private if you share this. What the actual fuck? Someone took a shit on the driver's seat of someone else's car? I mean, you have to be, what is the word that you used for the prison guard who cut the hole in her pants, depraved? Yeah, that's what they call her. You have to be a depraved person to think

I'm gonna shit on someone's seat in the car. That's so weird. That's not even just gross. It's freaking weird. Who does that? That's so weird. What did she even do? Could you imagine cleaning an adult shit off of your vehicle seat? That's insane. No. I swear to God, if any of my baby daddies ever did that, I don't even know what I would do. I don't honestly know what I would do. Therapy would be out the fucking window. I would have an explosive reaction 100%. I would hope someone lit my car on fire, honestly. Yeah, I would literally order a whole new seat, like take the seat out and just order, actually throw the whole fucking car away at that point. I just wonder how many situations happen like that in breakups? Shitting on people's seats?

Yeah, just like crazy stuff, like slashing tires, keying cars, shitting on seats. People are crazy. I have not, in any of my breakups, I think, and I don't want to, I mean, I've never damaged someone's property outside of, I broke a laptop that I bought in a breakup. Well, I feel like if you broke a laptop that you bought, it's kind of like, you know, I also, I also replaced it, to be fair, I replaced it. Yeah, so I mean, but like, I bought it and also I replaced it and I, outside of that, I've never like, I've heard like bleaching people's clothes, burning people's clothes. I've seen like cutting sneakers, stuff like that. I've never done any of that. Okay, if anybody mess with my crap like that, I'd lose my damn mind.

I'd absolutely lose my damn mind. Yeah, you know, the best thing to do when someone breaks up with you, or you break up with someone, go to bed, go to bed. I know I wish it was that easy. I honestly wish it was that easy, but I don't know, like breakups, I always get like this feeling in the pit of my stomach, it sucks, it's sad, it's hard to get through. I mean, now I would never even, like, don't even, I would never even, just don't even be with me because I don't have the energy for it, for the breakup either. I want to know for anyone who's listening to this, like, what type of person are you in a breakup? Like, are you the silent, like suffering silence, just going to kind of like do your own thing? Are you the person that shits in the seat of your ex's vehicle? Because

that explains a lot about different personalities. I'm definitely going to be the first one, like, I'm just going to go to bed. So I, in the past, I would, I've never, I would never shit on something, but I've definitely been like the more explosive in the past, but like, today, if I was in a relationship and someone broke up with me, I would literally leave their text message on red because it would probably be done during over a text message, and I would never talk to them again. There would be no bad blood, but like literally when I tell you how much I'm coming to peace with everything in my life and how I deal with things, like, I would not, I would literally, if someone was like, listen, Kale, I don't want to be with you anymore. I'd be like,

okay, like, that's fine. Like, that is fine. And I would move the fuck on. You know, you saying that you've come to peace with stuff. I had therapy yesterday. And you know, one thing about therapy that I really like enjoy is that you can be accountable. I feel like I can, I'm so accountable for my actions and things that I've done or things that I've said to like hurt someone else and just like really own it. And I think that there's so much growth and being able to just like be honest and own your shit. That it just feels so good. Like, even though it like doesn't feel good to talk about the things it does, because it's like, okay, I know I'm getting somewhere. Oh, 100%. 100%. And like things that you're, you know, that maybe you

can't, or you don't want to address like publicly, but you know that you did it in your own personal life or like it transpired at some point in your life and you can go to therapy and talk to like a neutral person about it. And even if it's just between you and your therapist, you know, you're owning your shit and apologizing or you're sorry or whatever that looks like the growth and the progression. Like I feel like that is, that's so personal and so real. And I mean, at the end of the day, like, if you feel guilt about something or you want to like own up to something in therapy is supposed to be where you should be able to do that. And you don't owe anyone else an explanation. And I think that's like, that's me speaking directly to my trolls, like they keep saying that

they want to hold me accountable for things. And like, I'm not acknowledging things, but that's why I'm in therapy, right? Like, I don't owe you an explanation. I owe my therapist an explanation. I need to be able to look at myself in the mirror and say, you know, I fucked up, I said this, I did this, whatever that looks like and say, you know, like, I am accountable and I am going to do better and things like that. So I think you're, that's a really good point. My therapist, I know, I don't know about your therapist, but my therapist gives me homework pretty much weekly and it's always like something that's like thought provoking, right? Like something that makes me think. Yep. And the most recent thing that she told me

yesterday was three goals that I would like to see to come from what I talked to her about. And so I think that that's like really good to kind of give yourself, even if you're not in therapy, if you're going through something and you want to see change to like set goals and to write them down, because if you write them down and you reread them, you're kind of making yourself re-accountable, I guess, if that's a word, you know, like, yeah. And I just, I don't know, it took me a really, really long time to be like, okay, I should go to therapy. And I think when I made that decision, I don't know for whatever reason, I thought like, oh, if I do therapy, that means I'm weak and like I can't handle my problems on my own and like

whatever. It doesn't, it doesn't mean that at all. That's such like a twisted way for me to have, have thought in the past. Like I always thought, oh, like I'm bigger than therapy. Like I'm I'm same mindset of like, I don't, I don't need to be on anxiety medicine or I don't need to be, I think I'm bigger than everything and therapy has been so helpful in that you can have someone to talk about your problems with and it gives you a true sense of peace and accountability. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, I feel the same way that you do. I feel there's just so much relief and like, I think the stigma around going to therapy, I never really cared about that. Like I've tried therapy multiple times. Like I've said before, I've never been

committed like I am now. But I think when I, I so casually and freely talk about going to therapy, but I, I didn't realize that other people are like, think that that's like, there's something wrong with me. Yeah. Like they think there's something wrong that I'm going to therapy. And it's like, no, I just want to learn how to undo what I've done for 28 years. And like, you know, my mom probably didn't raise me to the best. I mean, she raised me to the best of her ability, but there was probably so much trauma that she endured and like my mom's mom, you know what I mean? Like there's just like generational and like familial cycles of trauma or just like toxicity that maybe they didn't even know was toxic, right? So just want, when you know better,

you do better. And it's just crazy that I don't, this is what I keep thinking about every single week is like, I'm going to therapy now so that I can learn how to redo and undo things for the future and like for my kids and stuff. But is there going to like, by the time my kid, like I, what I'm trying to say is like, if I do all most things right, like moving forward, are my kids still going to have to go to therapy and try to like undo stuff? Or do we think that they'll be like healthy by then, not healthy by then? Do you get what I'm saying? Yes, I do. The short answer to that question is yes, they'll need to go to therapy because I think everybody could go to therapy. There's no single person that's listening to this that could say, oh, I had a picture perfect

childhood and like I, my parents did absolutely everything right. And I have no traumas and whatever. That's just part of being a human being and you're going to make mistakes and you're going to do things wrong. And it's, you know, someone told me to get comfortable with apologizing to your kids. Yeah. And I think a lot of people miss the boat on that. Like if I, if I get worked up and I'm like, Jackson, this is like the 19th darn time that I've told you to put your clothes in the laundry. And it's like, you know, I feel like I've harped on him like all day, you know, just telling him the same stuff over and over again. And it's like my tone is not the greatest, but it's okay. I, I'm comfortable with saying I was frustrated and these are things that I tell

you to do all the time. And for whatever reason, you don't listen to me, but that's no reason for me to elevate my tone, you know, and that's, I'm sorry for that. And that's not a proper way to communicate. And to be able to be comfortable to do that and to have that type of relationship with your kids, I think changes anything that you could do wrong, right? Because you're, you're showing them that you did something wrong, but you're accountable. And it goes back to what I said before that kids who see parents who never even have a spat or anything, and then they get 17, 18, 19 years old and all of a sudden the parents are divorcing and those kids are just kind of like, wait, what happened? Like, right, right? They never saw things along the way and

they never saw you kind of like break and pick up the pieces of the puzzle and put it back together together. I think that's healthier than showing your kids that it's like this picture perfect thing. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, I definitely, because I think that goes hand in hand with like conflict resolution. Like if kids, and I'm not saying argue in front of your kids, I'm not saying fight and, you know, divorce your husband so that you can teach your kids about a valuable. Yeah, about conflict resolution. I'm just saying, like, if they never see or hear anything, I think there's a healthy way to do it. But both parties have to be on the same page and know how to do it. I am a member, I guess you could call it of high impact club, which she talks about

like gentle parenting and things like that. And part of that is like, I would get frustrated with my kids if they weren't listening or whatever. And she teaches parents about natural consequences and also about how to communicate. So with your toddler, like your toddler can express their feelings to you. And then you're getting frustrated because you can't understand what your toddler wants. And, you know, what you're doing is not working. I realized for me, I would be raising my voice, my tone would be horrible. And my kids, it wasn't making a difference. My kids would still, you know, make mistakes as all humans do. And I realized, okay, I need to do something because what I'm doing is not working. And that's when I joined high impact club. But it's like learning

how to communicate and truly acknowledging when you're wrong so that your kids can do the same. If you're not modeling those behaviors and feeling sorry, like, not, yeah, like feeling sorry about, you know, talking out of tone to your kids, they're not going to do the same when they get older. Like you have to model those things. So I think you made a really good point. What's an example of natural consequence? Like, so what the one that I like to use is Lux never likes to wear his coat outside. So okay, I'm not going to argue with you and tell you that you're going to get sick again. If you go outside and you don't have a coat on and you're cold, that is your natural consequence. Or that's so hard to do that as a parent. It is really hard because for me, it's like, okay,

if I let my kid go outside and he doesn't have a coat on, not only do I have to worry about, I'm going to have the coat with me. And he might be cold. But now I'm having other parents look at me and be like, you let him outside without a jacket or oh my God, he's freezing. What is wrong with you? And it's like, now you're looking at it from, okay, my kid's cold and I have other people judging me. You know what I mean? But it's a natural consequence. I posted another one on my page. I think it was last night. Let me go pull it up. It's crazy that everything that I posted is coming up today. It is so interesting too that people are really quick to judge and it's like, okay, you don't know what type of parenting style that I'm implementing that might cause my kid to not

be wearing a coat when it's 32 degrees outside because he's choosing. I'm not going to fight him every single day because when he is 15 years old, I'm not going to be able to fight him every single day for him to put on the jacket. So I want him to learn what the consequences of not wearing one is when he's four years old. Exactly. So the other one that I that high impact club her name's Marcella. She's the sweetest lady I've ever known. She has twins, but she posted I think it was her on her or it might have been feeding littles. I don't remember which account I follow a lot of gentle parenting one just because I'm trying to pick up more of those types of parenting styles and what I've done in the past, but it was telling your toddler or your small child to not put your

put their iPad on the ground, right? Like they're not listening. They're still putting it on the ground and you know, instead of screaming, raising your voice, why are you not listening? It literally says on the post to not be little them basically, like don't make them feel shameful. Let me read it verbatim so that you guys can understand. I reposted it on my story. I can repost on the podcast page. So teach your kids real consequences that don't damage self worth or trust in your relationship by using related consequences as a result that is related to the behavior. So she gives the example, communicate a clear boundary. Please do not put the iPad on the ground. It could break. So clear expectations and reminders at this age are crucial are crucial. And then it says

step two, accept and acknowledge the boundary being crossed. It looks like you're having a hard time keeping the iPad off the ground. So you're acknowledging the behavior without shaming or attacking their character with comments like, how come you can't listen? What you're being bad? Do you want to get in trouble? Like things like that. And I think we set our kids up for failure sometimes. Like Isaac, I think you lied about having food in his room one time and I was like, why would you lie? So now I'm setting up, I'm setting up setting him up for failure for him to like basically justify the lie. But then I'm also belittling him. Correct. So again, like I'm learning how to not. So then it says step three, own the situation. I'm going to put

the iPad away for now so it doesn't get broken. We can try again tomorrow. The consequence of unsafe use is that the object goes away out of sight, out of reach. There's no negotiating, pleading or scolding. You know, you'll try again tomorrow. That's a natural consequence. You're not listening. I'm going to put it away, but I'm not going to scream at you. I'm not going to yell at you. And then next time, if you do the same thing and it breaks, the natural consequence would be that it's broken and now you can't use it. See, that's, that's what I do with Jackson. I think I like that a lot better. Yeah, that's, yeah. I hope everybody does that because kids are just like sponges and everything that you say and do to them, they just absorb and it is so

hard whenever you're parenting and you know, you're frustrated and you're also trying to work and you're trying to like do all of the things to not just have that natural reaction to just like want to just be like, do you have a brain? Like are you, are you thinking, but you have to just like pause and be like, okay, this is just a little human. They are going to make mistakes and there's a better way to handle the situation. And I think the natural consequences is so beneficial. Yeah, I agree. And I actually like, I mean, I remember one time, the only time my mom has ever apologized to me. I was probably Isaac's age and we were going into Walmart and I did something or I said something I don't even remember what it was. My mom hit me so fast on my head, but her

ring was flipped around. So the, like the ring part of it hit my head and I was so upset and I was like that really hurt. Like I was so upset, I was crying. That was the only time my mom ever apologized to me was like, oh, I didn't mean for my ring to be on, you know, the other side or whatever. But I meant to hit you. I just didn't mean for my ring to hit you. Literally, literally that. And I was just like, Oh my God, like talk about trauma bonding. But I really want my kids to like anytime I've snapped with them. And usually it's very, very like immediate. Like I know, okay, if I lost my shit and my tone went out the fucking window, I'm like, Oh wow, I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have. It's like, it's pretty immediate. Like I have apologized

so much for things that I, it's pretty immediate for me when I apologize to my kids and I hope, I hope they forgive me. I mean, I don't ever mean to like snap at them, but sometimes my work comes home with me. I'm still on calls. I'm still doing whatever or I, someone calls me and I'm in the car and you know, it's just, you know, how it goes. Yes, I do. And actually you said trauma bonding. I think that that's where we should pick up next week because it's something that we've had, have had written down for several weeks now and we just haven't talked about it. And I know it relates to both of us and I'm sure plenty of people who are listening that just don't even realize. I also wanted to mention, I don't know if you remember my friend, Carly.

Yes, I follow her on Instagram. Yeah. So I actually recorded with her yesterday for the Southern Tee. She shared her NICU story and literally all morning this morning, I've just been like a basket case of emotions. Like I don't know what it's, what it is like to have a NICU baby, but I know that there's probably a ton of people who are listening, who have had that and her story is the sweetest, like most precious, most tender story ever. And just to see her like on the other side of it now is so special. So for anybody who's listening, who has had a NICU baby or know someone who has had a NICU baby, then I did drop that episode this week on the Southern Tee. So you guys can go and take a listen. And then also,

do you have any shirts left for the fundraiser that you guys did with Leah for baby mamas? Yes. So there is a, we're doing a fundraiser for Ali and Leah and all of the proceeds go to the Cure Rare Disease Foundation. The pre-orders are only open until July 15th. That way we can get all the orders shipped out on July 30th and making sure that everyone gets their stuff and, you know, at the same time. There are, we did do a full restock so that we shouldn't run out again. But the, like I said, the pre-orders until July 15th and then all orders will be shipped out on July 30th. So if you can't wear a shirt, you can't purchase a shirt, that's fine. There's also a link for a direct donation to the Cure Rare Disease Foundation. And all of the research that they

do there goes to research and hopefully finding cures to rare diseases. So it's not just for Leah and Ali, but I know that Leah is working directly with the Cure Rare Disease Foundation. And I believe, and I hope I'm not misspeaking on this, but I think that they're helping with Ali's like research and stuff. So that's why they partnered up. I love that so much. And if you guys have not subscribed to all of our shows, we have tons of new things coming that just can't be discussed right now. So make sure if you haven't followed our shows, Baby Mama's No Drama. Obviously you're probably subscribed to Coffee Convos or the Southern Tea. Make sure that you subscribe to all of our shows for all updates and notifications. And if you have not followed us on Instagram,

you can do that by just searching our handle Coffee Convos podcast. And you can subscribe to our show on Apple or Spotify or any other podcast app that you choose. So we hope you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya.