Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 190: True Crime Talk: Casey Anthony

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

On this month's true crime bonus episode, Kail and Lindsie are talking about the Casey Anthony trial. They discuss their personal experiences watching the trial unfold back in 2011. They break down the timeline of events leading up to the disappearance of Casey's daughter, the confusion about where she was and who had her, and the ultimate discovery of Caylee's body. Kail and Lindsie discuss possible theories, how the trial proceeded, and what happened after. This episode was sponsored by: Upstart, Ring, Everly Well, & BetterHelp Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to a bonus episode of coffee combos podcast. Hello, Kalen. I have been sleeping all day. I had no kids today. I canceled my nail appointment. I was so tired and I just needed to just catch up on myself. I feel like that's been you for the past two days, like tired weather. Why don't sleep at night? So I think that's a huge part of it. Speaking of sleeping, I haven't been sleeping all week because I have been diving into all of this Casey Anthony stuff and like I can't wait to talk about it. When I tell you I've literally watched anything that I could. I even paid 599 subscription to I guess it's called like Fox something. It was like Nancy Grace has a special because Kaylee Anthony

is turning 16 this year or next year it's coming up. I don't I'm trying to think if she was born in she was she was born in 2005. Yeah, so 16 this year. Yeah. So Nancy Grace had like a she was she was doing a special on it. But I don't know if it like wasn't available on my TV, but I paid the 599 subscription. So as soon as it's available to me, I will be watching it. I love that. I have also just been going down a million rabbit holes with this case more so than any other case that we have ever covered. And so I also want to say that this is a case that when it was going on that I watched absolutely everything play by play. So did I I remember watching it live and then repeating on all the news outlets

like I was sitting in my little one bedroom apartment and I remember watching the whole thing and going through all of this and rewatching things reading things re infuriated me. I think I was triggered differently watching it now because I have a son. Well also when we're young I mean this this all started happening when I was still a teenager. So I didn't even really look at all the actual facts the way that I am now and also to your point. Well I had Isaac when all of this was going on. So I believe that it started in 2008. So I was graduating high school that year. But I just feel like I had to stop watching. I had to take the entire week to watch everything because I had to stop watching because I was

so triggered by some of the footage and some of the like the 911 call. There was just so much there and then her demeanor about everything was just so off to me. So let's chat about it. I did want to mention before we get started that in my opinion, if you're looking for a good series on Casey Anthony and the entire case, I personally preferred the ID investigation discovery. I think it was called an American murder mystery. Yeah, it was three parts three parts and I was able to get it on YouTube TV for free but I do think that there was other streams that you had to pay for it like specifically I think Hulu I would have had to unlock it by paying a fee or whatever. So if you do have YouTube TV, you can watch it for free.

I also watched that three part I watched sell me secrets. I watched a YouTube video with Bailey. I don't know how to pronounce her last name. I watched so many things I've read so many things and then I had I had posted something on my Instagram story about it and I have to say one person messaged me and I was a little annoyed with her passion I guess for a person that she thinks was involved that I personally don't think was involved and just like her conviction in her in her theory. Her theory pissed you off. It was just the the the certainty and it's just like I didn't get that from everything that I've seen and I've watched and I've heard so I don't it was just like you're gonna get off

of this recording with me and you're also gonna be pissed off at me with my certainty. Ma'am, I'm I'm concerned. I'm a little concerned. I would also like to say say that it's interesting to cover something that was so media driven and that literally I don't know of a single person while this was going on that did not hate Casey Anthony. She was the most hated mother in America. Most hated woman. Period. Yeah. Yeah. And I would I would go on a limb to say that she still is. Correct. When I found out that she was writing a book and then that she was doing like a documentary or whatever she plans to do. I was so triggered by that because one I just think that she's such a fucking liar that I can't deal with

the fact that she would have enough balls to go out and write a book and do a documentary unless she's going to acknowledge what she did. I agree. So where do you want to start? Okay, I'm gonna start out. I'll do the first like little bit because I feel like I have a bomb. I want to drop on you because there's no way that you know this. Okay. I have some bombs for you too, sis. Okay. Casey Anthony Casey Anthony is born March 16 1986 and she's one of two children to George and Cindy. She's born in Ohio and the family eventually moves to Orlando, Florida. So Casey does have an older brother named Lee who is four years older than her. And Casey has been described by pretty much everyone who knows her as energetic

and bubbly like bubbly was the number one description of Casey Anthony. Her father George is a cop and her mom is a nurse and does home care. So this was news to me that she even had a brother because I have never seen him in any interviews. I don't even know what the man looks like. So that was new. So I in my investigating my own discovery, Casey Anthony is known to be a liar. So in high school, she really pushes her parents away. Nobody knows that she lives with her parents and her brother, but nobody really knows Casey outside of she lies about the dumbest things and people don't really understand it. So it comes to a point where she is about to graduate high school and her parents start planning her graduation party.

And Casey won't tell her parents where her graduation is. And so they call the school to find out information. And that's when they learn that Casey is actually not going to graduate high school because she's failing almost all of her classes. Did you know this? I did not know this. I did not know she had a brother. So right. So they find this is all one day before the graduation party. And Casey doesn't graduate and she then decides that she's going to drop out of high school. And she gets a job at Universal, which some sources said that she never worked at Universal, but I do think that she actually worked there for a brief period until she was fired. But at this time, so she has a job at Universal

and she meets this man named Jesse Grund and that's around 2005. So she is also said to never be able to be single. She always has a boyfriend. She's always in a relationship. And so she's in this relationship with Jesse Grund. And again, later in 2005, she finds out that she is pregnant. She finds out she's pregnant and she tells her friend that she doesn't really want to have the baby. She wants to give it up for adoption. And you know, I, you don't think really much of that. I feel like that's for someone who's 19 years old. So many, so many things go through your mind, right? Like, we were both young and very pregnant. So you just, maybe that is a possibility. So she takes this idea and she

sits on it for a while, but her parents are in like extreme denial. Like they don't, how are you seven, eight months pregnant in your house that you live in with your parents and they don't know that you're pregnant or they just want to ignore the fact that you're pregnant. So at seven months, she comes out and she says, like, I am pregnant. Like if you don't have to be in denial, like I am pregnant. And she tells her mom, she wants to put the baby up for adoption. But the mom says, absolutely not. You will not put this baby up for adoption. So at first she says that this guy, Jesse Grund is the father of Kaylee, who was born August 9th, 2005. But there's been like a lot of different stories from Casey about

who the dad is. There's been speculation, but nonetheless, the parents don't really press this issue, probably because they know that their daughter is a pathological liar, but that is just a personal opinion. I agree. I did just want to say at 19 years old, to get pregnant, I also have thought about the possibility that maybe she was sleeping around. And so does she know who the father is? That could be a possibility. And I just find it to be very odd that you live with your parents, everything's kind of done with your parents, but you just refuse to give a name of the father to your parents who are going to help you raise your child. Like something

about that to me just seems really, really off. Well, it seems off to me that if she doesn't want to raise this baby, she wants to get this baby up for adoption. Why are George and Cindy not just adopting the baby? Like if they're so adamant about keeping this baby, but Casey doesn't want to be a mom. Why are they just not taking full responsibility? Yeah, I don't know if it maybe was a situation that they knew that she was so troubled. So this would maybe force her into growing up in a sense, not to say that that's right, but maybe from a parent's standpoint, maybe they thought this would be the situation that

would force her to do that. And I found it to be very odd that the Anthony's were okay, like the documentary that I watched that I loved on the ID channel, I felt like they were totally okay with the unknown, but it makes me go back to think, were they so okay with the unknown because they knew that their daughter never told the truth? So it didn't matter what she said. Well, so they keep a lot of secrets and they did not tell Casey's brother, Lee, that she was pregnant until just a few days before she gave birth to Kay Lee. Really?

And then Casey and Lee, the names put together are Kay Lee. Oh, wow. So he was so upset that he wasn't told. He never went to the hospital to visit Casey and Kay Lee in the hospital after the birth. So Cindy was obviously one of those moms that wanted her children and grandchildren, I guess, to have the C names, Cindy, Kay Lee, Casey. That's like my family in Texas were Marlon, Carly, Kay Lee, Kay Lynn, Makayla. Yes.

Yeah. They were very, like, matched names. I kind of feel like I would do that too, so I'm not making fun of that. I'm just saying she obviously was one of those. And I did want to say that after Kay Lee was born, Cindy had said that she reminded her so much of Casey as a child that it made her bond with Kay Lee even stronger than a normal bond with a grandchild. Oh, that's interesting. I did not hear that. What would you do if you didn't have high interest loans or credit card debt? With Upstart, you

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slash combos. That's upstart.com slash combos. Don't forget to use our URL to let them know that we sent you loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application, upstart.com slash combos. So Casey is still in a relationship with Jesse Grund, and Jesse Grund thinks that he is the father of Kaylee Anthony. So she's born August 9, 2005. And just months later on New Year's Eve, he proposes to Casey Anthony, asks for her hand in marriage. And, you know, Casey says yes. And it was around that time that the first was around the first times that Casey started saying that she had a nanny named Zanny. So it was not, I was under the

impression that she made up Zanny the nanny like around the time of the investigation after Kaylee went missing. But evidently, Casey had been saying that Zanny the nanny was around since she was engaged and was with Jesse, who thought that he was the father. So Casey says that Zanny was introduced to her by a coworker at Universal Studios where she claims that she worked and that this coworker pays Zanny the nanny to watch both his own son and Casey's son daughter Kaylee, which I thought was interesting because if I could get someone to pay for my childcare, that would be nice. Well, and then it just makes me, I don't want to just like speculate anything, but it also

makes me think of the accusations with Casey and her attorney. Does she do sexual favors so people do things for her that benefit her? Like, I don't know of any, I don't know of any person that's just going to be like, yeah, I'm, you know, I've got this nanny named Zanny and she's taking care of my son to let me pay for your child too. And there's like nothing going on. That's weird to me. Here's my thing though. And this, this stuck out at me for the entire, for the entire case. Whether Zanny the nanny was real or not, well, no, if she was not real, and Casey is constantly saying that she is with Zanny the nanny, where is case, where is Kaylee actually? Because

if she's not with the dad, Jesse, the quote unquote dad, and she's not with Cindy and George, and there's nobody else that would have Kaylee, where is Kaylee when she says that she's with quote unquote Zanny the nanny? That was always odd to me. And the only thing that I could come up without a human existing to be doing that is if Casey was drugging her so hard and putting her where I don't know, like was she, because then it makes you think, okay, if that was the case, someone else would have had to have known about this for her to be drugged in somewhere because she lived with her parents, you know,

and even with Jesse and Jesse's involvement, where is she when she's not, she's drugging her and putting her in the trunk of the car. And then what happens if she wakes up, you only stay drugged for so long, right? Like it just that whole thing is like, how do you not have tabs on Kaylee? Like I just, I don't understand it for anyone to not know where she is when Casey claims that she's with Zanny the nanny. Okay. So at this point, nobody has ever met Zanny the nanny. Jesse is breaking the engagement at this point. He, they do a DNA test and it comes out that he is not Kaylee's father. So even though he does want to work it out with her initially, he eventually breaks off the engagement because he says

that Casey is becoming more erratic and doesn't, he doesn't want to be with her. She's a different person. So months later, Casey is going out all the time and she meets Tony Lazaro or Anthony Lazaro, um, who is a DJ in the area and he becomes her boyfriend. You know what I find to be so odd too is that I think that no one, and this could be possible that it's common with people with multiple, multiple personality disorder that seems as if no one really knew exactly what they were dealing with with Casey and she was showing up as a different human being to each person that she was involved with. 1000%. Although many reports and like people who knew her said that after Casey had Kaylee, she actually

was a good mom. I read that too. But if your kid is always drugged and away somewhere, you're only dealing with your kid minimally. They're only seeing what you want them to see. Correct. So fast forward at this point, we are now, so Kaylee's born in 2005. Um, the DNA proves that Jesse's not the dad. Jesse breaks the engagement shortly after. Um, there was a time that Casey then told her mom that Kaylee's actual dad was allegedly in a really bad car accident and passed away. Again, you can't believe anything that comes out of this woman's mouth. So I'm sure that Cindy, Anthony took that with a grain of salt. I also would have June 15th, 2008. Casey claims that she's leaving for a work trip and she leaves the

house June 16th, 2008. This is the last day that Kaylee Anthony was seen alive at Casey's boyfriend, Anthony Lazaros apartment where he also had multiple roommates. I think he had two or three roommates. So between leaving her parents house June 15th and getting to her boyfriend's apartment June 16th, Kaylee is not, she doesn't, she doesn't go to Tony's house, Tony's apartment with Casey. She's not there from this point forward. Casey stays with Tony for a month and every time that Cindy tries to get a hold of Casey and wants to talk to Kaylee or get in touch with Kaylee, she has excuse, Casey has excuses saying that she's either napping, you know, she's sleeping, or she's with Xanny the nanny. But all the

while she's posting to Myspace, she goes and gets the infamous Bella Vita tattoo. And Cindy Anthony is growing increasingly concerned about where Kaylee is. I just, I guess for me, there's only so much that parents can do that are not the parent of the child, right? Right. However, I feel like if your daughter and your granddaughter are living with you, and they're missing or your granddaughter is missing for this long period of time, you keep trying to contact to make contact with her. Seems as if they had a hunch that something was wrong. Why wouldn't they have maybe called the police earlier?

Yeah, if I haven't, if my granddaughter lives with me, and it's always easy to say what we would do if we were in a situation, but you know, I have panicked when my kids are outside playing and I can't find them for five minutes. So I, you know, I would be lying if I said I didn't think about calling the police, like my kid is missing and really he's playing hide and seek with his brothers. I also don't understand why. And so part of me actually thought that maybe there was some involvement with them and they were like, they knew, and this is just me being familiar with like decomposition and like knowing that maybe if the body was decomposed, there would be less evidence. A part of me did think,

okay, the parents are waiting 30 days, 31 days because they had some involvement and they wanted to let time go on before they called. So I will say that. But this is where the twists and turns start to come about. So at this time, Casey is using one of her parents' cars. It's a white Pontiac Sunfire and it runs out of gas. So she's going to this like check cashing place, which also was a red flag to me. Like, why doesn't Casey have like a bank account to go deposit a check at the bank? She has to go to a place that caches checks. The car runs out of gas and like any, you know, normal person, she's like, fuck it, I'll just leave it. I don't know how she gets anywhere if she calls Tony or

what what occurs, but she abandons the car, she leaves it at the check cashing place. And it sits there for a while until they have the car towed. And when it gets to the impound lot, they, you know, run the tags or whatever they call George. And he goes to the impound lot to get the car, you know, they have to pay all these fees to get the car. And when the employee at the impound lot takes George to the vehicle, they get in front of it or in the back of it rather. And the employee says it smells like a dead body. So George does also smell the smell, but I don't think he had any comments on it. I think it was just like this like really heavy pungent smell. So George takes the car home and Cindy smells

it and they immediately she's like, it smells like a dead body. They open the trunk and there is a black trash bag, which I did see photos and like video on the things that I've watched of a trash bag in, I guess it might have been like a recreation, but long story short, there's a trash bag in the trunk. And George and Cindy both say that they did not open this bag, which is weird. Why are you not opening if the body, if the car smells rotten, like a rotten, I kind of feel like that too. Like, wouldn't your natural instinct to be like, what the hell is that? So either they did look in the bag and they didn't want to admit that, or they're so much in denial for what is actually occurring that they don't

and they throw it away. I think it's the latter. You do. Okay. So you think they didn't actually look in the bag? I think no, I think that they are in such a state of denial, shock. They know at this point that Kaylee's been missing for however long, however many days 31 days. And obviously the car shows up. It smells what Cindy also identifies as a smell of a dead body. And evidently it's a very distinct smell. Like if you smelled it, you would know. Yeah, like I've never smelled one. I've never smelled even like an animal body or anything, but that that impound lot employee referred to it as a dead body. So it must be very distinct. And I just, I feel like Cindy was in such a state of denial.

There was signs of that to me from the time she made the 911 call on July 15th of 2008. That's when she calls 911 reporting Casey for stealing the car. Well, first she uses a full bottle. She says that she used a full bottle of, of Febreze in that car because of the smell, which is to me that also more so verifies it was that her way of trying to cover up something, but then she's on this recorded 911 call. And they said that it was a very unusual call because she wants her own 22 year old daughter arrested. But then they also report that not only had the car been stolen, but their granddaughter was missing. And it was pretty clear to me through all of the events that Cindy was pretty much running

the show in the house and in this family. And it was very quickly clear that the report about the stolen car was not the issue that it had been roughly a month since anyone had seen Kaylee and moments before the officers arrived from that call. Cindy had made another 911 call saying that it smelled like a dead body had been in the car. And that was call number two. And she then goes on to say that she had only been pretty dramatic about that because she wanted them to respond like she was looking for a way for law enforcement to respond. But to me, I think after she was able to kind of get her bearings about herself and realize like what she had called and reported that she was then trying to backtrack, she

did that in a state of like she was freaking out. Yes. Are you guys we're going to take a quick break to talk about one of our partners ring and I am so excited about this partnership. I love ring so much. And in all seriousness, if you don't have a ring alarm security system, you definitely have to check it out. I'm not talking about the ring doorbell, which is great. I also have that too, but they also make a whole security system. I recently added the ring alarm security system at my new house. Just because I am now a single mama and it's just me and Jackson here. And a lot of times, you know, I'm here by myself. So I no longer feel terrified at night from every little noise that I hear. I feel so safe because

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ring alarm. Go to ring.com forward slash combos to get a great deal on the ring alarm security kit today. That's ring.com forward slash combos. Okay, so she does the bottle of Febreze and then she goes and she tries to find Casey because Casey is like MIA. Remember, she's living with her boyfriend for the past 31 days since the last time that Kaylee was seen alive and it was during it was in the morning. Cindy finds Casey at the boyfriend's apartment Tony Lazaro and she walks in and there's drugs everywhere. She said there's drug paraphernalia everywhere around the boyfriend's apartment and it's not even lunchtime. So Cindy is like questioning Casey in front of, you know, the boyfriend and the roommates and Casey is like

what the fuck mom. So that's, they go back to the family house, the family home and that's when Cindy calls the three times, but I don't know what the third call was because there was three 911 calls. One was someone in the home needs to be arrested for stealing the car and money. And also a note that I did get on one of one of the things I watched was between call number one and call number two, Cindy overhears Casey tell her brother Lee that she met Zanaida, Zanny the nanny in the park to exchange Kaylee and Zanny pushed Casey off of her and like held on to Kaylee and was like, you're not getting Kaylee back. So then that's when call number two, it was like a kidnapping situation is what Cindy

was reporting, but I don't know what the third call was. I did not get information on that. I did not either, but I did have written down that there were three 911 calls that took place from Cindy. So the cops ask they come and they ask Casey to take her take them to the last place that they saw Zanny the nanny with Kaylee. And Casey takes them to the Shawgrass apartments in Orlando and describes Zanny the nanny. And the description that she gives is that Zanny is black and Puerto Rican. She is from New York and she moved here to go to college. She's 25 about 140 pounds. She's five seven. And she says quote unquote that she is a 10 that she what that she's a 10.

So at this point, at the point that the investigators started focusing in on the missing child. And Casey tells them that she dropped Kaylee off at the babysitters like a month ago. To me right there, if there was no red flags prior to that, what mother drops their child off at a nanny's plate residence 30 days ago, and has not reported anything not to her, not to her friends, not to her parents, not to law enforcement, nothing. I also thought it was weird. Okay, so let me say this and then I want to tell you what I thought was weird. So they go to the apartments, they knock on the door on the door, nobody answers, they go downstairs, they talk to the landlord and the landlord says nobody

has lived in that apartment since March. So it's now July, it's been vacant for months. The police get video surveillance of the apartments where they would have seen people coming in and out. They don't see anyone that fits the description of Zanny the nanny. They don't see Casey and they definitely don't see Kaylee on any of the video surveillance. I was a little bit alarmed by all of the things that I watched and read. Nothing ever says that they checked phone records about who Casey was calling at the time. So I feel like very much in other cases, like that's one thing that they do is check phone records. And that was not in any of my like looking, I didn't see them or, or have them acknowledge the

fact that they did they look at her phone records? Did she actually call these people? Did she because she says when the police initially come to the house, Casey says that Zanny let her talk to Kaylee that day. Casey also said that she kept trying to call Zanny's phone and that the number was out of service. Right. So would that not have shown on phone records? Like obviously that was all a lie. I mean, obviously everything that she says is a lie, but I'm kind of with you. Was that a part, I feel like the documentaries really didn't cover that part of evidence and you

know, who was she in communication with during this time? Like wouldn't the phone records have also shown where Cindy and George were trying to get in touch with her to speak to Kaylee? And just the fact that she was so detailed in her lies, but also so committed to her lies. So like, but then she couldn't keep up with them either. Right. Which is obviously she's a pathological liar, but to be so committed, like she was going to die on that lie. Like Oh, and she will, and she will. I agree. Like the fact that she told detectives that she was an event planner at Universal

Studios claims she dropped Kaylee off with the nanny before she went to work that morning, then returned the same day at the apartment and the nanny had disappeared with her daughter. They then go with, uh, Casey goes with the detectives to track down these two coworkers that she mentions meet with a supervisor and then all the way up until that point, she's going along and riding with this lie until she's really like faced with like you have not worked here in at least two years. Yeah, she, it takes, she, baby, they're basically going on a wild goose chase and it takes, it takes her all the way up until they get into a dead end of office, offices in a hallway

at Universal and she turns, she stops and she turns around and she's like, I don't work here. Like what the actual fuck, she was going to ride that lie out though until, until she didn't have a choice. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what's so terrifying. That brings us to her arrest on July 16th and she is arrested for neglect of a child, obstruction of justice and making false statements, um, which is kind of irritating because, um, at this point, Cindy is now trying to take back her dead body statements and saying that there's rotting food in the vehicle and that's what the smell

was. But I think that prosecution was, you know, calling her bluff because she is a nurse. She knows what a dead body smells like and as a cop, George also would, would be aware of what that smells like. I did just want to mention too that she obviously was a troubled child and they were, um, in a complete state of denial. I mean, they had very Cindy was, Cindy was in a complete state of denial, but I don't know that George was. I think that he was, um, he personally was self aware, but I think that a lot of times

when you're in a marriage with someone that doesn't see things the same way as you in order to be able to coexist and, um, have peace that maybe he was kind of catering to the fact of like, I know what I know, but you know, Cindy is stuck on this narrative. So I'm just going to like keep my mouth shut, but they had very respectable careers to me. Like he was a former cop. She was a registered nurse and you know, seemingly like this picture perfect working American family. And then they have Casey with all of these problems, which I feel like so many families can, can relate to that, you know, having a troubled child.

But the fact is, is that I see a lot of similarities and Cindy with Casey agreed. I agree with that. I do agree with that. So, and I also thought that, um, Kaley or Casey had claimed that she had kind of hung around to see at the apartments to see if they would come back. And then claims that she checked places that she knew that the nanny took, took Kaley. So like the park, local shopping mall, I think she referenced, but the fact is, is like, it's all these detailed lies.

And I think that she maybe was adding details just as she was talking and then that's why she got trapped in these lies because she couldn't remember what she said. So like you said, the detectives, you know, continue searching and then speak to this apartment manager and see that apartment that she pointed them to had been vacant for months and buy video cameras and stuff that they had not been there. Like it's one thing to tell a lie and just be like, Oh, you know, she lives at this apartment complex. I don't know which unit she, you know, blah, blah, blah.

But to be so specific in your life. It's really scary. The name itself, the name itself, Zanita Fernandez Gonzalez is a real person. I know. Which is insane. But where did you see that name, like what, and then, but that's a real person. But I, I really do think that Zanita Nanny was actually Xanax, like earlier on, okay. So at this point, we are, Cindy is trying to take back her dead body statements.

And meanwhile, the cadaver dog is alerting to decomposition at the trunk of the vehicle, the Pontiac Sunfire, which I also had when I was a young mom, I had a T01, but so they opened the trunk and there is staining inside the trunk. Could be the size of a body, you know, a two year old is pretty small. And the carpet tests inside the trunk do test positive for decomposition and chloroform. So I don't know about too much about chloroform. I know just based on like shows and stuff, you can use it to knock people out. In one of the interviews I watched, they were saying that like chloroform is in everything.

I don't know how true that is. I don't know what chemicals are. I know like there's a ton of chemicals in like clothing and stuff at like the stores. That's why they say to like wash them because like formaldehyde and things like that will keep them like fresh looking and like crisp. So I don't know about chloroform, but they also find hair strands in the trunk and these hair strands are either Cindy's, Kasey's or Kaley's, but they know that the hair is longer than Kasey's at the time and it's untreated, which leads them to believe that it would

likely be Kaley's and this hair does have decomposition bands in it. So that's something that happens to your hair when your body is starting to decompose. So what I had written down about the hair stuff was that a hair analyst actually takes a hair and they determined that, and this is where I feel like because there was so much unknown and the defense was able to really strike back on technicalities type stuff, that's why the outcome was the way that it was because this hair analyst says that the hair had either had to be Cindy's or like one of her female offspring, I guess. So the band on the hair showed that, like you said, the decomposition, but the chloroform

much more than just from the decomposition can render someone unconscious. However, the interesting thing to me was that the computer of the Anthony's home, they find the searches of how to make the chloroform, which as they said was an indication of the premeditation, but during the trial, Cindy states that she was the one who looked that up. Yeah. She said that her dogs were getting into bamboo in the backyard and so she was looking up chlorophyll, but here's what I'm going to call out here.

If my dogs, which I have dogs are getting into something that might be poisonous, I'm just going to Google like is bamboo poisonous to dogs? I'm not going to look up chlorophyll because chlorophyll, I believe, don't quote me on this. I'm not a plant expert, although I wish I was, is what makes the plants green. So that's like not a thing. That's, I mean, it doesn't even make sense. And they confirmed that Cindy was actually clocked into work during those hours of those

searches. Yeah. That's what the prosecution said and that she completely had pretty much like made up the fact that, that she was at home and it was kind of like, that's where I saw some consistencies between Casey's behavior and Cindy's behavior because it seemed so calculated and manipulated and committed. And it was talking about how they actually had timestamps from the computer when that was searched, but then also timestamps from like where she 100% was at work.

And she still tried to lie through it. I saw, I saw that on like she was on the stand and she was like, they asked her, so you're telling us, you know, you were, that you were home, even though we have timestamps of you at work. And she's like, yes, if, if I may, if those searches were during that time, then yes, I was home. She rested on, she rested on the lies and the defense said that the chloroform was far from noteworthy because it was found in so many cleaning compounds and that alone was enough

to raise reasonable doubt. I'm pissed off by the whole thing because I don't think that it's circum, I don't think any of it is circumstantial and I understand that it's, you know, guilty without reasonable doubt. And that's why the whole thing kind of blew up because it was the prosecution's theory and then all Jose Baez had to do was just literally throw darts at the balloon. All right, you guys, we're going to take a quick break to talk about one of our partners everly well.

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stress test and got so much information. I'm so glad I did it and the process is just so simple and I would truly recommend this to anyone. So, if you guys are interested for the listeners of our show, everly well is offering a special discount of 20% off of an at-home lab test at everlywell.com slash convos. That's everlywell.com slash convos for 20% off your at-home lab test, everlywell.com slash convos. So Cindy at this point, so Casey's in jail still for those charges from July 16th and

Cindy goes and visits Casey in jail and asks what Xanny looks like so that if she needed to pick her out in a lineup that she would do that. Again, very questionable thing for Cindy to do because if you've never met this woman, why are you then going to commit to picking her out in a lineup? I'm not, I have kids and I'm not defending my kids if they murder somebody. I'm just not. Like I'm not going to be that person. Don't call me to cover it up because I'm not going to do it.

So Nita Gonzalez, like I said, is a real person. So I think Cindy or one of the prosecutors says like Casey, you couldn't even point out Xanny in a lineup. So again, just very weird, all of it's very weird. And so detailed, like the lies are so detailed. How does someone come up with someone's name that's like a three part name? It's not like you're saying like Sue or like Ashley or Brittany or, you know, this was like a very detailed specific name to me.

At this point, she's retained the attorney Jose bias, which he's pretty new to the game. He writes a letter to I'm assuming the district attorney or whoever's handling the case and basically gets Casey out of jail because of her good behavior. And she is essentially on house arrest during this time. Can we talk about him for just like a quick second? Yeah, I actually wanted to hear what you wanted to say about him. Okay. So he has a very interesting background.

He dropped out of high school, got his GED, went in the Navy became an intelligence became an intelligence officer with top secret clearance, then goes to FSU, St. Thomas Law School. The bar wouldn't clear him at first because of some type of like shady debt or something. And he's represented other huge names. Aaron Hernandez is probably the one that everyone knows about that's followed the Casey Anthony case, but other huge names like hedge fund managers, Harvey Weinstein. And if you dig far enough down the rabbit holes that I went to, there is a link to the mafia in Miami.

So I feel like he just has a very, very interesting background and is known for representing people who are of like horrible moral character. And we've talked about that before. I personally cannot, I would never be able to sleep at night knowing you cannot look. I mean, we're talking like Rob Kardashian literally knew that OJ Simpson was guilty kind of thing. You cannot be an attorney and look at your client in the face and not realize that their story is bullshit and know that they're guilty.

And then you go to sleep at night. He actually, according to the detective that he had hired in the case. He had actually said something to the detective about how basically, I don't know if it was exactly that he knew that Casey had done something to Kaylee, but he was trying to locate the body. That is what the detective that he hired statements were. So it's like he knew what he was dealing with. And I think that what really, really helped them in court was the fact that he was so

on board with acknowledging the fact that she's just like a blatant liar that it almost made it seem like, okay, well, he's acknowledging the fact that she is a big fat liar, but she's not a murderer. I just can't with these kinds of lies. I can't. I literally can't. She Casey gets arrested again. So she gets out, but then goes right back in pretty quickly thereafter.

So she gets out. She's arrested July 16. She goes to jail. He writes the letter gets her out. But then just a little over a month later, August 29, she's arrested again for writing checks without permission from the person. But her parents posted the $500,000 bond. Like I don't know about you, but if I was George, I'm now divorcing my wife because

the answer is no. Yeah, it's like seriously, like when is enough enough? It's like you're already facing all of this, you know this, and you just can't stop. It's like she's got a sickness. Like she's ill. Also Jose Baez shut down contact with law enforcement immediately. And so they were not cooperating with anything with law enforcement and he holds this press conference stating that charges mean nothing and that basically does all of these press

things like as many that he possibly can. Like a press tour. Yeah, almost. And it's like, how is that even necessary? He was so committed to swaying the public's opinion and having a voice publicly. And I think it was tactical because there was no one, you could not pull a jury from that Orlando area that had not heard about it. Well, so that was interesting because in one of the interviews that I watched, they said

that instead of moving the actual case, they decided to pull jurors from other places and then like how is them? But that didn't stop the jurors from talking. They actually were talking about the case, which is not really even legal. And wonder was even selling information to a blogger. Another thing is, is that you're going to pull a jury from another location, you're going to house them in Orlando. Were they housing them in a place that had TVs?

Right. You know, I mean, like drop the ball big time there. Yeah, I feel like it was a major drop the ball. I remember there was a hot car death case in Atlanta years and years ago. I believe it was like right before Jackson was born. And they actually moved that trial to another area because it was such big news. And I feel like that's really where things really went wrong in this situation. Right.

So, so she gets arrested again for writing back checks. But she gets, she's back in jail somewhere at some point because it's recorded. Let me just say too, I watched cellmate secrets. The entire show was kind of annoying because I thought they were going to drop major bombs. But Casey made friends with a woman in prison who was serving 10 years for marijuana related marijuana and gun related crime. So in the letters back and forth, which I got to rewatch it, but it didn't really make sense.

The woman says that she knew about the poo blanket, the Winnie the Pooh blanket before it was ever released to the media. I'm not really sure about that whole thing, but they're writing letters back and forth and like some of the cellmates were trying to tell the cellmate like, listen, like she's a baby killer and she didn't want to hear it. But now that she did the interview, like she does believe that Casey Anthony did kill her daughter. So the, a meter reader, a utility meter reader, December 11th, he calls, he's about 20 feet

off the road. He said he's going pee in the woods, calls 911 and he claims that he actually tried to report the bones in the woods three times, but nobody took it seriously. And this last time they finally, you know, take it seriously and they find the remains. When Casey's parents go to the prison to tell Casey that they have found Kaylee's body, Casey says surprise, surprise. When I saw that, when I heard that, when I saw that just put her on the, put her on the death, death, death row right now.

I felt like when she said that it was such confirmation to me, like surprise, surprise. She's been dead this whole time. I, that is heartbreaking and infuriating and to sit there, surprise, surprise. That's your daughter. You birthed her and you cared for her for two years. I also don't have words for it, but I am going to say that, you know, in one of the documentaries that I watched, I was talking about how typically when a child goes missing, parents report it

right away and that in this case, you know, obviously that wasn't the case, but the longer that it, you know, time goes on and missing children cases, the less faith they have in the recovery. Like, I feel like law enforcement knew that she was dead. I think that they just didn't know where to look. Yeah. That's kind of the vibe that I got and Casey's, um, the surprise, surprise. The comment to me was so, there was almost no emotion there.

It was sinister. Sinister. Yes. Like that's like evil. That's the vibe I got. It's kind of made me feel like, wow, it took you guys long enough. But I feel like a normal human being would have broke down in tears. For sure.

She said, surprise, surprise, no emotion. But Casey Anthony's mom asked her where, what is your gut telling you right now? And Casey kept saying, my gut's telling me that she's close. She's close. That freaked me out. Because Casey knew where she, yes, she was basically given a shallow grave across the fucking street from her, her family's home. Um, so December 11th, you know, the, the utility meter reader reports it.

They go out there. They find the human remains. They know right away that this is a small child. The skull still has duct tape, um, on its mouth and there's a, a canvas bag, um, which has bones. And on one of the interviews, it did say, they did say that, um, they do think that animals also were got to the body, um, because some of the bones were dragged around. Um, and then there was some in the, in the bag as well.

And then there was a blanket that had the faded outline of Winnie the Pooh and Piglet. So that was December 11th, December 19th, Casey Anthony's body. It is announced that it was her body and they issue a search warrant for the Anthony family home, which is where they discover that the, you know, Kaylee's room at Cindy and George's house is in Winnie the Pooh theme and they find the twin matching laundry basket that is sold only in pairs at a very specific retailer. Um, so one, the canvas bag is missing out of one of them. So I had that December 19th, 2008.

That's when the press conference was confirming the remains and the manner of death is homicide. Um, they had to bring in a forensic anthropologist to look at the bones, um, the two plastic bags with the bones and then the skull, um, supposedly this utility worker from the way I understood it had kind of like seen it when he was going to the bathroom and grabbed a stick and kind of put it through the eye socket to lift it up, to see what it was. And that's how he determined that it was, you know, human remains, um, it was like a human skull. And so that was dissent.

Did you say that was December 11th of 2008? Yes, ma'am. Yeah. And what really, really triggered me was the fact that like, not that it makes any of it okay whatsoever, like this is absolutely disgusting, but the fact that you leave her with her baby blanket and then the, the canvas bag, like was that something that was already in the car or was this something that she, um, like took from the house knowing that she was going to use it for that?

I think that she, this all occurred in the house. You do think it occurred in the house? Yeah. Okay. So that all is happening the last month in December of 2008 in 2009, um, George is going through it at this point. He I think he really does know that his daughter, his daughter did this and he has to live with the fact that he raised somebody who ultimately killed their daughter.

He's going through it. The media is ripping this part, this family apart, like truly shredding them. But at this point, we still have not even heard from Casey's brother, which is so weird to me. Um, I'm going to have to like look him up or whatever. George starts staying in a hotel and this is where he attempts suicide. He said that he took, I think he said 60 or 70 pills and drinks as much beer as he could, hoping that he could, he would pass away and he leaves a lengthy suicide note where at

the end, um, you know, he says he's going to go be with Kaylee. Yes. May, so Casey is in prison at this point and we are moving along to May 24th, 2011. This is when the trial starts. So I want to note, uh, put extra emphasis on the fact that George and Cindy are technically witnesses in this case, but they are also Casey's grandparents. And so they're given permission to be in the courtroom because they're the grandparents, but typically this is not allowed, um, and they're instructed to not show emotion through

any of the trial. And if they do, they need to be removed because it could be, um, what is it called like interference with? Well, they were just instructed to show no reaction or zero emotion because I feel like the judge, um, felt that that would have had some type of interference with the jury. Before I even get into the actual trial, I want to note this because I was paying attention to George and Cindy a lot and despite their differences and how different I feel about each of them, they have the same attorney.

And I know I texted you Lindsay and I said, you know, thinking back to John Bonnet Ramsey, um, they did not have the same attorney. I think they were conflicted and they had different stories and different, you know, feelings on how they wanted to go about it. But George and Cindy state, like they remained having a pretty united front and they only hired one attorney. The other thing I did watch one show that was Casey Anthony's friend speak. And I noticed that throughout every single interview, no women came forward as Casey's

friend outside of the cellmate in cellmate secrets. There was no women who came forward as Casey's friend and described Casey or talked about her as a mom or described, you know, what it was like being friends with her or anything. So I did think that was a little weird. Um, and then to have no female friends, but to have so many friends who are males. Um, and there's one thing, like I have a lot of male friends, right? Like a lot of men, but I also have women that are friends. And I know that there are plenty of women that are like, Oh, I'm only friends with

guys, but it's like, okay, but yes, you still have some woman would be able to come for whether it's a sister and on a cousin, a woman would be able to tell about your friendship or your relationship. You know what I mean? Correct. Not one single woman came forward, not even the women in the pictures from the hot body contest. Right.

Which is so, so odd to me. But then I also thought, um, would the women from the hot body contest or whatever have just been peers that, um, or more like on an acquaintance level, like they knew who she was, but didn't know her well enough to like involve themselves to this degree. Like you have to consider if you're talking to law enforcement, this is a case that widely is media covered. Do you want to put yourself in a situation where you're giving information that could potentially, um, you don't know enough to really be giving information, maybe.

I also feel like the Kaylee's dad situation, like you said, she very well may not have known who the dad was, but the men who slept with her know that they slept with Casey. Why did none of the men come forward and say, because I on Casey Anthony's friend speak, it was only men. And there was one that denied sleeping with her and said that, you know, we were just, it was strictly platonic. Like I did not sleep with her. Where are the men that did sleep with her?

I know it's, why didn't they come forward? Because if it was me, if I, if something happened to me, I know there would be people who would come forward and be like, yep, I was with her. Right. You know what I mean? Like that's just like weird. This podcast is sponsored by better help. If there's something interfering with your happiness or that's preventing you from achieving

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Yes, she's charged with first degree premeditated murder. I did also want to mention because we've mentioned this about other cases about the media and how much play that it has in some of these cases, the media literally explodes. And something that I found interesting is that Florida law is obligated to provide the media with document reports and other things pertaining to the case. So this is a sensational, no brainer of a story because every day was something new. So it was like this real life soap opera that people were getting to tune in to every day. It was dubbed as a Shakespearean tragedy, national story almost immediately.

And again, in this case, you've got a beautiful mother, all American family. The media really just latched onto it and her casey's attorney was having endless press conferences every day proclaiming her innocence and also it was said that he was reading responses from the public, like whether it be Twitter or wherever else to know kind of like to create his defense around what people were saying. Yes, which I found to be very tactical from a legal perspective. And back to how they had to bring in a jury from somewhere else. The biggest obstacle in selecting the jury was the media attention because like I said

before, finding someone who did not know about the case was nearly impossible. And the people in the area where they would pull, it wouldn't possibly be fair. So they select this jury from elsewhere, house them in Orlando. And then it shows outside of the courthouse. I don't even remember watching this media coverage that there were fistfights outside of the courthouse or people trying to get inside to get seats. And you know, it really was an insane people were so invested. But I feel like the amount of investment with social media today with the Brian Laundrie

situation that this was like prior kind of to bloggers being able to cover this kind of stuff really. I couldn't imagine a case like this going on today with Instagram. I can't imagine what that would be like. I couldn't, especially with like Instagram live, Facebook live, all of that. No fucking way. So the trial begins on May 24th, 2011. I did want to note that the duct tape is the one piece of evidence that no theory other

than murder can explain Kaley's remains were in the most obvious place. I'm going back to the statement that you mentioned that Casey had made to her parents or to her mother about how she felt like Kaley was very close by. I believe that she was so sinister that she could make a statement like that knowing that she was in this wooded area that was so close by. Yeah, I agree with you. I definitely agree with you. I know there was some theories that she was saying that so that the parents would like

look and move the body. But I personally don't agree with that because they were under such heavy scrutiny and they were basically under a microscope that they would never have been able to get away with moving the body at that point. They were being so heavily watched and so the media was on their lawn and they were putting no trespassing signs in their lawn. I don't believe that. I was blown away because I don't remember this from like once I watched it, I remembered

you know after I was like my memory was refreshed, Jose's bias and dropping this like bomb that nobody fricking expected, I was like re blown away because I had completely forgot about the defense. So Jose bias claims that Casey learned to lie because she started being molested by her father George at the age of eight. And then he, Jose bias also tried to use George's suicide in 2009 against him in the same trial. Basically saying that it was a sign of guilt that he, you know, was part of this murder cover up or or negligence and cover up.

And he says that Kaylee was home and in bed, this is all what Jose biases defenses that Casey is home in bed. She goes to back to sleep and Cindy leaves for work and when Casey wakes up, they go look for Kaylee and George finds Kaylee in the pool drowned and he basically threatens Casey and it's like your mom will never forgive you and look what you've done, but then proceeds to help her cover up this and you know, puts her in a bag because that's what he had done with former family pets when they passed away. I could not believe this was just like not something, these are not things that anyone

had ever heard before. So and there's even recorded phone calls between Casey and her dad while she's in prison where she is telling her dad that he was such a good dad to her and she loves him and she feels like they've been disconnected and you know, she loves him so much. I would be curious to know from Casey's brother Lee what their family dynamic was, but it also gives me very John Bonnet Ramsey vibes where, you know, the brother Burke was never allowed to talk. Like, was that the same situation?

That's almost the vibe that I got and I'm like, okay, is he under some type of gag order under, you know, some NDA is there. I wouldn't put anything past her attorney legal team just in general outside of Jose Bayez. I also thought that it was just so disgusting that it let me know when he brought in Georgia suicide attempt into this trial that nothing was off limits and they didn't care who they impacted their mental health, nothing that it was strictly about protecting Casey and you know, did not care about the parents whatsoever.

He Jose Bayez says that, you know, his client is a liar and explains, you know, like she lies because of this deep dark family secret states that she was eight years old and that's when George began to touch her inappropriately and then 13 years old with her father's penis in his mouth in her mouth and then she would go to school and act like a regular child. George however says he never touched Casey inappropriately and also stated that he was not at home when Kaylee died. So the fact that that was brought into the situation I think was to cast doubt. I don't think it really had anything to do with the actual act.

I think it was more to cast doubt on George's character to kind of make it look like, you know, all of these people are troubled people and it just allows for Jose to convince the jury that we don't really know what happened. There's so many secrets here in this family that it could have been anyone. I am just remembering one of the things that was in the letters that Casey wrote to the one cellmate. She said in there and I don't know if this was part of like Jose Bayez's like plan or Casey's like plot to like start planting seeds for their defense.

But Casey writes in the letters to the cellmate that her dad and her like she writes that her brother sexually assaulted her and abused her and that she's pretty sure that her father did too. Pretty sure. Those are big allegations to be pretty sure about something. I did just Google, I know that our listeners hate when we look like we don't know what we're talking about, but this was about Casey and less about Lee. I did Google him and he testified against Lacey during her trial in 2008.

He says on the stand that the stains that were in the trunk like the actual stains themselves were already there. When he drove the car because he also drove the Pontiac Sunfire. He also says that Lee claimed Casey had kept her daughter Kaylee from the family because she was a spiteful bitch and that's in quotes. He also described the smell in Casey's car as offensive on the witness and Lee was not at the hospital like I had said and he was angry. He didn't want to be there and they didn't want to include him.

Lee originally owned the car that Kaylee's body was allegedly placed in and he denied the allegations claiming that the stains were there when he purchased when the car was purchased in 2000 and then it says Lee was accused of sexually abusing Casey in Jose Baez's opening statement so it wasn't just George, it was also Lee. I did want to say too that part of the defense was that they come up with this theory that George finds her in the pool June 16, 2008 when she drowns and then Casey is begging for him to help her and George disposed of the body and that's when it comes into play that the jury is told that George used to do the stupets of the earth that died.

So this is an entire cover up of Kaylee's death. However, I then found information that stated that this investigator that Jose Baez had hired basically states that this was his idea that he goes out to investigate and he sees that this ladder is in the pool and he tells Jose about this ladder in the pool and they come up with this theory about the pool like the investigator that was hired came up with the idea of the pool and he has said this. That's so disturbing to me, that is so disturbing, but is that how normal defense trials go? Like they literally make something up that could that could work.

I think to cast out. But then okay, so casting doubt fair enough, understood, but this, this is something that is so obvious. So what happens if you're not convinced that what the prosecution is saying, which personally I can't see how you don't see it that way. You're not convinced that the prosecution does a good does a good storytelling and you're not convinced that Jose Baez is either than what I guess it would be like a hung jury, but this jury took on July 5 took 11 hours to deliberate and came back with with a not

guilty verdict and she's acquitted on everything except for I think making false statements or something along those lines and she already served three years so she doesn't have to do anything and she gets a thousand dollars in fines. I think that in this case, there's certain things that we just have to remember and how the law works that it's infuriating, it is broken. It's a broken system and that's what it boils down to the prosecution proves she's a liar. That's, that's just the facts, but they then have to prove she's a murderer. I feel like we did.

I feel like it was proven and all of America felt the same way and how do you find a random selection of jurors? These random ones just happen to think that she's like, you just, I don't buy it. Like I, all these high profile cases, OJ Simpson, you know, this one, why are they getting acquitted? I don't under and you cannot tell me that there's, there's still no doubt for me, but I feel like I'm, I'm being logical. What is your theory?

What do you actually think happened? Because I personally, I do not think the dad was involved. I really don't. I don't think the dad was involved either. I did want to say that, you know, Jose Baez did a really good job of basically, I mean, not basically, he did make a mockery of the scientists saying that it was junk science and that it hadn't, that type of science had never been brought into a courtroom, that it was chemistry, that the, you know, guy on the stand that had dedicated so much time

and pretty much his life into what he does, that he was this, this case was based off of chemistry and that he was not a chemist and they go through the whole part about the carpet and how the carpet from the trunk is cut and put into a paint can and then sealed. And then it talks about the vapor that comes off of the, the carpet and it's collected in a can and then they remove a sample of that vapor and force it in this device that separates the chemicals individually to identify and it was a very like tedious process. It seemed like to me, right, but you know, Jose goes into the courtroom and he's like, this is, this is junk science, like you're, you're not a chemist.

This has never been brought into court anywhere, but he was still brilliant and he was still a scientist. So he spent his time and his own life and his own funds to develop this. So I do, while I understand, I also don't get it. They challenge, you know, the forensics. We have to remember that in a trial, there is burden of proof. So defense will tell you that the defense does not have to prove anything. And like you said, the defense throws darts of reasonable doubt.

And the fact is, is that most jurors do not understand forensics and you've got a defense calling this fictional science and challenging that it has everything to do with chemistry. But the guy on the stand that has done all of this work is not a chemist. And I mean, it's just, it's insane to me. I personally think what happened, I don't, I don't believe that she died at home. I believe that she, I think Casey is solely responsible for the death of her. I think that she, it's one of two things. She either died at home, Casey freaks out.

She grabs, you know, these trash bags, the laundry basket, puts Kaley in the trunk, tries to go to this check cashing place possibly, and the body's there, the car breaks down. I'm just trying to figure out how, at what point, I can't pinpoint at what point she took the body to the wooded area. So the prosecution claims that she puts the baby in the, in the trunk, goes to the boyfriend's house overnight and then removes the body. So that Casey is, Kaley is in the trunk for one to two days before she's removed. Like she goes and stays the night at her boyfriend's house with basically between July 15th and

July 16th, where she shows up at her boyfriend's case, Kaley is in the trunk. She stays the night with the boyfriend and then removes the body. So they also said that the duct tape was considered the murder weapon by prosecution. And that allowed her to die in her sleep and that she wraps her up in this blanket, puts her in the laundry bag, puts that in the garbage bags, puts her in the trunk. Like you said, goes to the boyfriend's house. Next night walks in the woods and puts her there. I just don't see, honestly, Kale, how the car would have smelled like that.

How long does it take for a car to start having that type of smell if the body had only been in there for like overnight? Well, you had to think this is Florida heat. And as soon as the body, as soon as you die, I'm pretty sure like rigor mortis and all of that, like that all happens really quickly. So I'm pretty, and as soon as you die, your body starts like releasing gases and like things. So I think it would have seeped into, I'm scared to Google it because if me to look

up, because if I look shit up, like for these cases, like I do get really nervous. I'm like, if something happens to me and then they Google, look up my phone records, they're going to see that I Googled how long does it take for a body to start decomposing and then I'm going to jail. Like, all right, I'm going to Google it, but y'all heard it first from the podcast. How Oh my God, I'm scared. How long does it take literally freaks me out? Body to start.

Oh my God. This is awful. Actually, we could get my aunt on the podcast, she is a pathologist. So she, her job is to determine what, how someone passed away. Okay. How long does it take for a body to start decomposing 24 to 72 hours after death, the internal organs decompose three to five days after death, the body starts to blow and blood containing, containing foam leaks from the mouth and the nose eight to 10 days after

death, the body turns from green to red as the, as the blood decomposes and the organs in the abdomen accumulate gas. So if we're talking 24 to 72 hours and we're talking in the trunk, in Florida heat, in the middle of summer, that's why yeah. So you think, okay, go through your theory again. You said you don't think that she does it in the house. I just. So where did she do it then?

Cause I don't know her, but also it goes back to the same thing that we don't know about this nanny. Like where was Kaylee all of this, these times like, right, right, right. You know, there's so much left that is unknown. It's a very possible that she used some type of chloroform, like whether she made it, you know, whatever, um, knocks her out or used, you know, uh, with the amount of drugs that she evidently, you know, was, was around. Maybe she used a Xanax, um, that was super powerful, puts the duct tape over her mouth.

I just can't put my finger on like, was she dead when she put her in the trunk? If she wasn't dead, she was unconscious. Can you, I don't even want to say this, but like, can you imagine that poor child if she wasn't and she was unconscious and she came to some type of consciousness and had. Like Chris Watts, like yeah, when he killed his daughters for the second time and one of them knew and they had their blankets and one of them tried, no, absolutely the fuck not like I literally, so this is going to sound crazy and I hope it doesn't sound crazy.

But, um, before I came to the office to record this episode, I had to stop by Javi's house to grab, um, he, we have a championship game tomorrow and I was thinking, I was literally thinking of how little Lux and Eli are, like they're little, they're toddlers. I could not, they speak full sentences. They have conversations, they run around like they are little tiny humans and they're so funny and just like all toddlers, like as frustrating as it can be to raise toddlers sometimes, like I could not imagine anything happening to these like little people. I know, like also I wanted to say that the defense focuses so much on the discovery of

the remains and the, um, this, you know, whatever type of worker that puts the stick into the eye socket of the skull and lifts it up to confirm what it is. They then call upon a veteran pathologist and, you know, say if there was a firm connection of the tape to the child and the DNA would have been on it, but there was no DNA. However, it then talks about like what you're saying, the body was in Florida heat and under water for some time, so, um, they try to challenge that Kaylee's death should not be ruled as a homicide and, um, then the defense goes into asking witnesses about how Casey was with her daughter and turns the entire prosecution and their theory on its head because then

these people talk about how great of a mother Casey was. So I just think that in this case that it is truly technicality, um, and it shouldn't be able to be like that because I think we all can say that it's very clear who did it. I think the question still remains was how was it done and why and why? Like there, we don't know the motive, um, we can only speculate, you know, motive. She didn't, she, she seemed, and I don't want to say that she didn't want the child from the beginning because I think a lot of mothers who are listening to this, um, that have had children very young that they have, uh, or an unexpected pregnancy that they've possibly

had thoughts like, do I put this child up for adoption? Like what do I do? So I don't want to say that like maybe her mind didn't change at some point, but also it seemed that she wanted to live like this fast and free life and the only way to do that. And it's almost like her parents had this expectation for her to be a mother. And so, um, maybe in her sick and twisted mind, the only way to get away from being a mother is for her literally to no longer be a mother.

And on July 5th, 2011, that's when the jury really, uh, reaches the verdict after deliberating for 11 hours, which that is a very quick deliberation in a case like this. And, um, she was not guilty of first degree murder. She was found not guilty of aggravated manslaughter, not guilty of aggravated child abuse. She was guilty of four misdemeanors. Um, and I think people were so infuriated that what she was guilty of was like lying to the police. Each charge, each of those misdemeanors carried a year and she was sentenced to serve consecutively,

but she had already been in jail for over three years and you get time off for good behavior. So she only served 10 more days. Um, and it's also just, it's infuriating because. Is the body was in such a state of decomposition that there will never be or would never be enough evidence from the autopsy to show how she died. Same situation with Brian laundry, like. I looked up where KC Anthony, KC Anthony is now and it said that she actually lives and works with the lead, the lead detective on her defense.

Like she lives with him and she works with him. That's insane. Like, um, she stays off social media. She lays low. Although at one point I had heard rumors that she was pregnant with twins. I heard that documentary and that she was going to do a book, um, which is crazy because it would be one of those things where we would all not want to support her because we wouldn't want her to make money from it, but we would have to watch.

She did an interview, um, pretty recently, um, I guess it would have been when Kaylee would, what is turning 12, she went on, um, like a week long worth of interviews and she says in the interview that this is again another change in her story that her dad, she doesn't know what happened at all, but her dad had Kaylee the last time that anyone saw her alive. Um, before we wrap up, there was just like a few things that I had to mention and I can just like list these kind of as facts. The private investigator that part was just like fascinating to me because he unleashed a bombshell of documents about the behavior that he witnessed about Jose and KC.

And, um, he alleged that he had complete control over Casey and that she was completely compliant with him, um, which you have to consider if you are facing these types of charges, I think most people would be compliant with, with their legal, um, but he concealed, um, he, he canceled an interview for Casey that she had had booked and this was a cancellation at her request and it said that the repayment was you owe me three blow jobs and that this investigator witnessed Casey running out of Jose's office naked giggling and he confronted her and she confessed that she was paying off her legal surfaces and sexual favors. And, um, supposedly, according to this investigator, Jose had also told him, like I said, that

Casey had murdered Kaylee and that he needed all the help that he could find to get to the body before someone else did, um, the investigator claims that he came up with a whole idea of the pool, um, and some other things that happened after the case, um, and they reached a verdict, Casey filed bankruptcy because she had been sued by the search company and then Zanie, the nanny for the use of her name and then the court filings in the bankruptcy case revealed information, um, another thing that I found interesting was that George reveals that it's crazy to think that Kaylee drowned in the pool. Um, George believes that the truth lies in unusual behavior from Kaylee months before

she died and talked about how she would sleep for like 10, 12, 13 hours at a time. And George believed that she was being given something to make her sleep and that the meds could have been coming from Casey's friends. Um, he believed it to be Xanax and, you know, Zanie is a slang term for that, um, George remains, I believe to this day that he wants nothing to do with Casey, but Cindy was not done and that really speaks to, um, the behavior the entire time. I think the mom and Casey have lots in common. I'm just so blown away.

So I would just love to hear your guys's thoughts, um, what you think happened, um, we don't need to be getting in fights over, you know, what we, what we think did or did not happen, but would love to have an open conversation with you guys on Instagram about it. And we have literally talked so long, I think we're in an hour and 30 something minutes. So we are going to sign off. Um, and of course, when you guys write in questions, we can answer on, uh, you know, regular episode as well. So if you guys have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on Instagram, make sure

you follow us over there and you can also subscribe to our show so that you never miss a notification. You can do that by searching the purple podcast app on any Apple device, Spotify or any other podcast app that you choose to listen from. We hope you guys have a good rest of the week and we will catch you guys on our regular Thursday episode. I hope you guys have a great week and we'll chat soon.