Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 195: True Crime Talk: Natalee Holloway

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

We here at Coffee Convos apologize for the audio issues on this episode. We are working to fix the problem and will be back to our regular audio quality on the next episode! On this month's true crime bonus episode Kail and Lindsie discuss the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. In 2005, 18 year old Natalee went missing while on an end of year school trip to Aruba. Unfortunately the investigation into her disappearance never resulted in her discovery. Lindsie and Kail break down the timeline of events leading up to Natalee's disappearance, as well as all possible theories as to what happened to her. They chat investigation, suspects, and the impact this case had on society. This episode was sponsored by: Skylight Frames, Story Worth, & Canva Pro Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

that is not how we start true crime it is probably roughly 9 13 a.m we are eating Toll House cookie dough for breakfast and I'm drinking on a Lonnie I'm actually really excited to be here because I wanted to do cover this case for a long time and Kale gave so much pushback about it she didn't want to do it this case Kale you never wanted to cover Natalie hallway I mentioned it who is Natalie wood well that's a good one now that you don't know Natalie would now I'm gonna use one of those I'm gonna cover her for one of them who is Natalie wood God the way that we're doing this now for true crime is 2022 Lindsay's

picking six cases to cover and we're gonna go every other month so I ordered all these books for my cases I was sitting on the plane on the way here like reading the books and I'm talking like big chapter books and I was like covering the book cover because I didn't want the people next to me to be like what the fuck are you reading like that's a literal serial killer right there I'm going to school for criminal law because I didn't want them to be like why are you why do you have six books with you for at Kemper why do you have three books for the lap dog oh my god so tell me how you didn't know who Natalie

Holloway was I I I don't know I didn't know I do I do know now I remember like so I went down a rabbit hole with this case once you picked it and I got here I was like okay let me get what I can done I remember seeing her the flyer but I never knew what the case was I never knew and I remember like maybe I was in high school or middle school like pieces of the interview of you're on or drawn or whatever yeah I've all the videos pronounced yeah but I never knew who she was like I never knew the story I'm just wondering if geographically maybe I followed it so much more because she's from Alabama and like geographically

it's so close to where I'm at so maybe that's it but when I tell you my parents were absolute psychopaths when this went down I think I was a freshman in high school and I was allowed to do nothing and it was like you can't do anything do you want to turn into a Natalie Holloway situation which is crazy because I lived in Pennsylvania and well first of all I wasn't going anywhere like nobody was sending me on vacation so I don't know that they're the only thing that I remember when I did go to vacation I was like 14 they told me this oh Jason was staying at the same hotel I remember you telling me that but other than that like

I don't remember anyone ever talking about Natalie Holloway or the situation or vacation I think it's just like really relatable to because she was close to our age or a little bit you know in the same proximity of age and a 5 foot 4 blue eyed blonde-haired girl like an American dream girl you know and I think I related that so much actually when I was listening to a podcast on Natalie Holloway Jackson was listening I guess with me and I didn't realize and he said mom is this story about you you know they got a lot of backlash for that really because it was blonde hair blue eyed American dream girl like the would they

have invested that many resources if it was a person of color a woman of color would they have exhausted all funds to fight somebody that went missing on an island there they got a lot of backlash for that I think also I can understand that but I think also the parents were from or had money so you think that was part of yes because the mom when the mom and her husband I believe took a private plane to Aruba so like every person is not gonna have resources like that to be able to do that so we're gonna get into this but I just wanted to say that this episode contains content that may be alarming to some listeners so

please check the show notes for more detailed description I am going to start with the case file podcast because I feel like that gave the most in my opinion accurate information and as much as I like to watch the documentaries and stuff on TV I feel like if you really want to get into this and have two solid hours of information and it follows it's a great timeline and it doesn't bounce around I don't feel like sometimes I feel like there was a one YouTube video that I watched that was very and it had a lot of and Kristen was there when I watched it like in after it the video I love the girl who does the

videos but it was she says you're on got like arrested over five times which is not what I found in other sources sources yeah so this happened on Thursday May 26 2005 it was that's not the date that the actual disappearance happened but where it all started the whole idea of going to Aruba was for 124 students from Mountain Brook High School and they had decided to leave their hometown of Birmingham, Alabama to travel to Aruba which is a tropical island in the southern Caribbean Sea for five days. I'm going to pause right there because I also know so many people and I don't know if they still do this but when I was

in high school it was like the popular thing to do to go on these senior trips is like last two rows. I would venture to say that these kids probably yeah so this was a senior class trip and it had become somewhat of a rite of passage for the seniors of Mountain Brook High School. They viewed this as one final bonding experience before they parted ways to head off to college and other endeavors and if you guys are not familiar with where Aruba is it is located 18 miles north of Venezuela. It's warm sunny weather all year round and it was just appealing because of the beautiful beaches and nightlife and just a short

flight from the United States. I found it to be very interesting that Americans accounted for 72% of the visitors on the island. Can I say that I just booked a trip to Aruba? Like that's our family vacation miscarriage so it's crazy that we're covering miscarriages. Any time I hear about Aruba I always think of Natalie Holloway and how I would never go. But it could happen anywhere. Yeah could happen anywhere. I'm actually the most excited out of all the places they're taking my kids. I am the most excited about going to Aruba. They also said that and my findings that it was just very appealing to Americans

because Aruba is very Americanized and so you would recognize like local fast food chains and hotels and it's relatively small so it's only 20 miles long and six miles wide making it extremely easy to navigate and the local population is around a hundred thousand. 20 miles long, that's it? Yeah. It's very... 100,000 people? Yeah, it's very small. Yeah. 124 students, seven chaperones for the 124 students arrive at the Aruba and

Capitol. Only about a 15-minute drive from the airport to Palm Beach for them to be able to check in to the holiday and resort. It was located directly on the ocean front and was one of many major hotels that lined the beach. Downtown was just a short 10-minute drive away providing easy access to the bars and the nightclubs. The Mountain Brook High School trip was all inclusive so all of the food, alcohol, everything was already paid for before they got there and the loosely enforced minimum age in Aruba

for drinking was 18 and for many of the visiting students it was their first experience drinking and their first time ever overseas. The job of the chaperones was to do a role called daily and to be available only if like an issue arose. So this left them pretty free to enjoy their time however they really pleased. I want to pause right here because for 124 high school seniors to be going to Aruba had really never been out of the country.

Seven is not enough. 124. No I feel like that's a lot of 124 by seven. And then I think about just my life I remember in like seventh or eighth grade or something we went to South Georgia on a trip and it was like a history trip and we had chaperones and they taped the outside of our doors so they would know if we left. So if we if the tape was broken or whatever they would know if we left but it seemed more like

these were the types of chaperones that were this just there to be like hey I see you I saw you today do whatever you want like just kind of like an accountability person for your existence. I will say though like based on the information given so far like Aruba sounds like the safer one of the safer options to go with 124 students and only seven chaperones like we're talking 20 miles long and six miles wide like where are you really gonna go? Right I guess because of the close

proximity of everything it didn't seem very dangerous because it's like you know you can be at the beach the pool but within 10 minutes you could be at the clubs and just live in this big life. I as a parent could not imagine allowing my 18 year old to go to Aruba just knowing what I know without me to go and party and drink. I wouldn't that's just my personal because they don't know how to handle themselves. I don't think I would allow it. Yeah definitely not.

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months her divorced parents had conflicting views on whether she should attend and Natalie had always been a dedicated student trustworthy independent extremely bright and involved her efforts had earned her a full scholarship to the University of Alabama's School of Medicine where she intended to become a doctor she was also a part of the National Honor Society which i thought was interesting just a very just a very smart and well-rounded girl

um her stepbrother had taken the trip years prior and had remembered it fondly and two of her step cousins were also attending with the class of 2005 although this did comfort her mother she wanted to be extra cautious um on the island and to not let her guard down so her mother was way more hesitant about her rolling with her dad and i mean i guess can try to put your mind all my kids dads would be less hesitant well i don't think chris or hubby would care like they would allow

our kids to go i think joe would be the one that'd be like me i i would be the one that would be like absolutely not but i don't even think that will would agree to something like this um i think it's interesting that custody or you know like co-parenting comes up i guess and this doesn't really matter because she's 18 years old but for the mom to be hesitant to allow her to go the dad be full force you know she can go this is going to be fun for her whatever can you imagine the guilt

that the dad felt after this happened knowing that he was the advocate for her for her to go and then how the mom felt knowing that she had this feeling before allowing her to go but still allowed her to go i couldn't imagine that as a parent so natalie was assigned a room with three of her closest friends ruth lee and catherine and they spent the first few days of their trip alternating from the hotel pool and the beaches taking advantage of the free drinks um her drink of choice

was a diet coke and bakardi um did they say one five one or one or 151 i don't know anything about bakardi i don't even know what that is in the evenings they would go to dinner and then party at local bars and nightclubs until the morning may 29th natalie joined a group to go snorkeling the evening she went bar hopping with her classmates and had a little bit too much to drink as i said before she was five four weighing 110 pounds and her tolerance for alcohol wasn't as strong as some of the others

and one of her friends had to walk her back to the hotel the next day was the final day of the trip natalie woke up early and had her first cocktail right away um and wanted to enjoy their last night out after dinner they went to the casino located on the second floor of the holiday in and they sat at a blackjack table where natalie's friend friend ruth struck up a conversation with how do you say his name i don't know um conflicting stories i've heard yoan yoran joran don't know i think it's yoran

yeah yoran banderslute he was approximately six foot four inches tall athletic build with short sandy hair he spoke english with an accent and said that he was a 19 year old student on vacation from holland they played all lie um they played for a while until ruth was up 100 after losing money over the last couple of days and around 9 45 p.m yoran joined um them around the poolside bar as they ordered drinks he had to leave five minutes later but the girls told him to meet them later this specific place had

become a fast favorite where they decided to meet for the alabama students and about 60 of them had arranged to meet there for one last hurrah just after 10 p.m natalie and her friends attempted to board a bus but they had drinks with them that would not allow them to get on so they got a taxi instead um and arriving in downtown 10 minutes later around midnight yoran arrived accompanied by two friends and then he eventually started dancing and drinking with natalie it closed um around 1 a.m and natalie was nowhere to

be seen lee returned to the holiday and sat in the hotel lobby until about 3 a.m before going to bed and she expected natalie to make her way back with others but i couldn't imagine being a friend going somewhere with one of my girlfriends the place closing not being able to find her going back and sitting in a hotel lobby until that late um or that early seeing people come and go seeing other classmates arrive back and natalie like not showing up

that would freak me out the videos i watched said that her friends saw her leave with yoran so i do believe that someone i can't remember which friend said this but someone said that they did see her leave the bar and she like um said what type of car that she was in a silver honda civic and that she was in the back seat that they said that they said like i think there are multiple accounts there was they the holiday inn has the footage of natalie and

the friends and i think yoran is there in the casino yeah that was on the footage and then they went to carlos and charlie yep downtown and that's where the friends saw natalie in the silver honda civic but the silver honda civic did not belong to yoran who did the honda civic belong to to the calpo brothers depop and satish got it got it yoran's friends so on may 30th at 8 a.m roughly lee and ruth woke up and realized that natalie had never come back

they assumed that she must have slept in another room and um it did say that the last time anyone had seen her was outside of carlos and charlie's like the people who came forward and said that's where they said that they saw her last and um natalie had told several classmates that she was going for a ride with yoran and his two friends um she stated that she would meet them back the holiday in and she was getting into the silver honda civic the honda supposedly pulled up to a close group of friends and natalie was in

said to be in the back and was yelling out aruba one student said that they had been sitting by the pool until around five a.m and saw several students return through the night but she was not one of them um her passport and belongings and phone were left untouched they had been scheduled to fly home at 3 p.m that day but there was still no signs of her and one of the chaperones decided to stay behind until natalie was located i didn't know about the phone she left her phone in the hotel

yeah like her phone passport like all of those things her luggage was packed in the videos that i watched it was saying like her bags were packed and her passport was on this little room uh i didn't know about the why would she leave her phone there maybe they have service in another country because you could that's a separate thing and i mean was wi-fi even a thing back then i don't know i don't think it was um i'm just so maybe the phone was just strictly like

for emergencies in case she needed to call home but she wouldn't have had it i mean you still have to have an international plan now to even go but i'm just thinking like and i didn't know that the strap the chaperone actually stood behind yeah like stay behind i thought that they just called natalie's parents no so one chaperone did stay behind i can tell you just from traveling to mexico i've been going to mexico since i was like in middle school

and wouldn't take my phone out of the room so i don't feel like that's an odd thing and especially the fact that she had accountability partners with her when they were leaving there wouldn't really be isn't that weird i couldn't imagine seeing my friend get in a car with three guys and not try to stop them but also do people think the same way as we think i don't know you've got to think like um if you and i went to a foreign country and you got in a car with multiple men i

i'm not letting you go alone i might not want to go but i'm not letting you go alone yeah you're not going alone either i i couldn't imagine that um the local arubin police informed that they could not launch a missing persons investigation until she had been missing for 24 hours and i want to comment on that because i do feel like that is a hole that is in the system because after 24 hours that's so much time for stuff to happen or to be covered up or

um i just think to file a missing persons report they should really look at the situation as a whole and not have this one standard that it has to be yeah like i'm gonna believe if if someone comes to me and tells me that's not in their nature to run away yes because they know that person it shouldn't be oh well the cops you know think that she's a teenager to run away like why would you automatically assume that that's weird well and i think because it is just common

practice that any missing person is not considered a missing person until they have been missing for more than 24 hours it's like you said you have fringe you're in this foreign like you're in another country you are 18 years old she was lasting by herself with these guys wouldn't you think that they would take into consideration all of the entire situation i guess not

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given the proximity to venezuela aruba was known for transporting narcotics from south america to the u.s which meant the island was no stranger to criminal activity so although to us as we're reading and digesting all of this um i don't live in an area that is crime-ridden but evidently aruba has a decent amount of crime that goes on so from the police perspective i could imagine that people go to them with it being so small people probably go to them and

maybe it's a common thing that friends get or family gets which is surprising to me that surprises me because it is so small and people probably know each other and like where you couldn't go you're on a six by 20 mile islands like where you're gonna go with your criminal activity you're not gonna be you're gonna you know get the other thing i guess you're going straight through that venezuela where it's attached to other countries right you could go from country to country

that you don't get on a plane or a boat to aruba correct so it said that beth twitty which was natalie holloway's mom was able to charter a private jet and arrive in aruba around 10 p.m along with her husband who was a prominent alabama businessman um and they had chartered this jet with other friends and um when beth asked the hotel about your on they immediately knew who he was and revealed that he was not a guest nor was he a tourist and that he lived there and was known to

frequent casinos and poker rooms he loved to gamble and hit on foreign women um a local teenager actually had accepted a hundred dollars and gave urans full name and address and said that he was a 17 year old high school student also in some findings that i did it was said that two months prior him and the calpo brothers right to the room at the mill hotel on aruba i have not heard any of this no okay so um they brought back three women i believe it was two american

and one coloman girl or sex oh wow and the fbi burned conversations that occurred via chat like chat message not like transmission um of uran asking one of the brothers for the pictures that he had taken so they were video recording and taking pictures of their sexual relations with women but nobody ever found the actual content they're only the conversations about the content really yes well to me that's very telling information like i don't want to say my thought yet but

um okay so uran denied knowing natalie but then later admitted that he had been flirting the night prior and they had kissed he said that natalie wanted to see sharks before she left so he and his friends had driven her to california lighthouse which was a snorkeling spot and then around 2am they dropped her off at holiday and hadn't seen her since uran said natalie was so intoxicated that she fell over and hit her head while getting out of the car um and a security guard in black had come over

to help to help her and that the security guard had a walkie talkie and his friends also confirmed this entire story um the mother immediately was convinced that they were lying and um you also have to remember that if this actually did happen her friend was in the lobby at that time and they never seen any of this stuff going on and you also have to remember that there was another student that was out by the pool until 5am and saw nothing like this so this is one of uran's stories

yeah that's that's his story too his first story that's his first story to the police there are several um i'm gonna let you get into the other ones but the security guard what i found to be really interesting was that employees of all kinds for the holiday in whether it be housekeeping groundskeeper like whatever they wore green pants and gray shirts not black and no person that worked there could

had had any type of reports or could confirm that any of this had actually taken place so to me i feel like this is immediately if there weren't other red flags prior to this this is immediately a major red flag because you not only are lying about the situation but you are lying in detail about the situation like yes when you have extra details that weren't asked for that alone is a red flag so on may 31st he was taken to uran was taken to the police station to provide

an official statement what was your findings about all of his statements so once the police got uran's information they show up to his house yes uran and i believe it was depot was in the home with him they start questioning uran on the situation and natalie holloway and he says he doesn't know what happened he doesn't know her name immediately very sketchy and depot was like correcting uran's story so uran is talking to the police in the house and depot is like no remember she wanted to go see the shark

to remember like right like kind of coaching him kind of so depot says we took her to see sharks and dropped her off at the hotel at 2am so like you said there's no video for surveillance or anybody to corroborate the story so when natalie and uran are in the casino like prior that's on tape right she would be on tape at some point between 2am and 5am being at the hotel right um so he claims when he dropped her off he looked back and he saw the guy in the black shirt talking to her around 2am that looked like a security guard but that changes several times right uran's story never is consistent

in aruba you can arrest somebody based on suspicion alone you don't have to have any type of proof so you basically can be kept it well at this time you could be kept in aruba just based on suspicion and then you have x amount of time before you have to let go for lack of proof i guess for me not only did we identify that he was just a flat out liar from the jump because he was dishonest about his i'm surprised he was even honest about his actual name because right he was dishonest about his age

the fact that he was from another country like they're visiting was it couldn't i i didn't find the information was he a rubin a rubin is that the right way to say it no he was not a rubin so he lived in aruba but was not actually but was he actually from holland um i don't know the answer to that question um but i know that he i believe that i don't believe he lived there his whole life okay i believe they and i wanted to ask you because i couldn't find a ton of information on it about his dad and

hit and um his pool socially in aruba um wasn't his dad like uh what did he do for he was the da right okay so there was like some type of connection so uran's dad is an attorney potentially the da or has connections to the da of aruba yeah which it could explain a lot of cover-up okay so confirmed uran is from the netherlands he's not he's not a rubin and he moved to aruba okay so i guess

from that information immediate if this was my daughter and i had found out that she was with some guy that said he was 19 years old gave all of this false information like he was from another uh another place that he was just there visiting but then to find out that he actually was several years younger and a local to me at that point all eyes point to him yeah and i mean maybe i'm wrong and maybe that's jumping the gun but all all eyes would point to him at that point

there was something that i found interesting to whenever i was looking at videos and things like that they said that when they questioned uran's dad he sweat profusely to the point where even the um the interviewer along with i believe it was natalie holloway's mom both noticed it how it makes me and it also was said that he often gambled with his dad he just wasn't allowed to place bets or something because he wasn't old enough to because he was 17 years old

and he had actually been at the casino with his dad that night and his dad had left to go home and he stayed there and he was staying out because his mom wasn't there to be able to check on him because she was somewhere else i i never saw anything about his mom in any of the stuff that i looked up so um basically after this the search for her was extensive and i do believe back to your point earlier in the episode that due to her parents social standing and access to resources that that is why

it got so much coverage could be because she was a five four a hundred and ten pound blonde haired blue-eyed white girl like that that could be very true um but the arubin the arubin authorities gave the marines there the day off the dutch marines and the servants the day off to help search for her like i don't know any other any other person that that would have occurred for i mean we're on reality tv and i don't think people would have made that big of a deal

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that's canva c a n v a dot m e slash combos canva.me slash combos so during the first few days of the search the arubian government like you said gave several thousands of arubian civil servants the day off to help with the search efforts 50 dutch marines were also deployed to the island to sweep shorelines for natalie the dutch f 16s were specifically fitted with infrared imaging devices to scan the land for freshly dug graves despite their efforts and over three million spent

on the investigation which is over 40 of the arubian police operational budget natalie's body was never recovered um beth had criticized the investigation um and has been accused of alleged bribery cover-ups and corruption and she continued to keep the hope for the return of her daughter i could so i could understand as a parent like you are that naturally you're gonna go there and be like they're covering up they have answers they don't want to give me answers like naturally they're

you're going to as a parent do that like yes you're you are in distress you are this is your child this is you get what i'm saying yes i can understand where that is coming from um however i don't think with all of the funding that they put into it i don't necessarily know if i believe that aruba is corrupt as a whole like i don't sure there are corrupt people in every government there are corrupt people in general but um i did know she also raised 170 she was putting up a 175 thousand dollar reward for information and then donors

like even united states donors raised an extra 50 thousand dollars to add to the reward for information which again is like how do you that's a 225 thousand dollars that's yeah that's a lot of money people have that laying around i think just as a parent um or if this has happened to maybe a sibling or someone that i knew i think it's you're very you're gonna be very quick to start accusing of things because you're looking for answers that you're

not getting so yes um i thought that it was interesting that the men that had been with natalie the three were questioned but then they were like let they were released um because there was not enough concrete so they all got arrested uh-huh um they were arrested alone on suspicion but then they also wiretapped their phone calls and their emails and they were let go i did think that was very weird because nobody's story was the same but like

i they had ever-changing stories and eyewitness testimonies also debunked the stories that they had so june 5th six days missing two arrests were made and then by june 13th they were released um i don't know where you're going next but what happened next was a little weird go so june 11th a spokesman for aruba confirmed that authorities knew where her body was and they had information but then turned around and said that he was a victim of misinformation and that

that wasn't true imagine having a missing child and several days later saying that there's a body and then hearing that they recanted that to me i would miss or how are you missing more for that information but like was there ever a body or was it just like never i mean what what was it we don't know we need investigators tell press that one of the boys claims something that happened to natalie on the beach and would take them to the scene of crime so this makes headlines and people go crazy they're like what the fuck

but in other findings it has never been confirmed that natalie halloween was ever on the beach that uran and the twins say or the Republicans uran and the brothers say that they like to it has never been confirmed because that was like a fisherman's hut and there were three fishermen on the their boats at that time and they said that there was no way that natalie halloween and uran were on that beach without being seen by those three men like the fisherman but that's consistent with there's no way they could

have taken her back to holiday in without being seen by somebody somebody yeah so the so the three fishermen say that they never saw or heard anything or anyone and then the police also say at this time that they also think that there is a high probability that she never actually went to that beach so i believe that it said that he and the brothers their had many stories but one of their stories was they drop off at the hotel

but then he was later recorded saying that he and natalie spent some time on the beach where he left her alone um by her own will but then in a later interview um uran claimed to have sold hallway into slavery and then recanted his testimony again how would she have gotten into slavery slavery without any without anyone knowing anything because if you can't even go to the beach at two three four a.m without being seen by fishermen how are they getting her off the island i know why without anyone seeing her

and boating even seems to be sketched because they it's six mile and six by twenty mile island so again unless that she got on a private boat which june 17th a party boat DJ named steve is arrested for a link to her disappearance wait you had a whole theory about that i do have a theory about that before we get into our theories another thing that i found was interesting and just very off-putting was in march of 2010 uran extorted to uh 25 000 from natalie's

mother demanding that she wire the money to his account and exchange for natalie's remains and after receiving the money he revealed the location but investigators found nothing there and then almost immediately after that may 30th um 2010 he was arrested in peru for the murder of a woman named stephanie flores who was found strangled in his hotel room after confessing to the crime he was sentenced to 28 years in prison and then he potentially faced extradition to the us

for an indictment on the extortion charges which is true he'll get out of peru in 2038 and then he's going to be immediately coming here to serve a sentence for that which i guess i'm just frustrated because i feel like he has been able my favorite word these days is bamboozle but like he he has been able to bamboozle this entire investigation disappearance like the entire thing and it and there is very much proof of his lies and obviously what he's done to someone

else which would be consistent in my opinion with what he probably did to her it's i don't know that her body is anywhere on the island um i think there's a higher possibility that she was sold into sex slavery than than her body being on aruba so you think that there is a potential that she could be alive i think that there is a connection between heron and steve which is the party vote dj because he inserted

himself into the investigation and so wait give me the details about steve the party dj and your theory on that okay so because i don't have a theory on that okay so steve the party vote dj and he inserts himself into the investigation but there is supposedly allegedly a link between youron and the party vote dj steve okay steve his alibi is not rock solid and he has no he claims that he was sleeping on a boat between the hours of two and four a.m which the only way to remove madeline

from aruba without any dna leftover or blood or anything would be on a boat and he has access to that if there is a true connection between youron and steve why couldn't steve have taken her and i hate to say it but like there was a theory about him dumping her in the panama canal and then nobody would have found her body did it nobody they they arrested him and released him they never thoroughly investigated that entire situation they arrested him on suspicion and then

released there was nothing said about them scoping out his boat testing for dna that's what i was gonna say they never they never investigated that they kind of just like oh that's kind of sketch and then he also says that he says something about like he saw youron or there was something about he he was kind of trying to corroborate jordan uh youron's story yeah um but he was on a boat right so how do you on the boat from two and two to four a

so how do you corroborate anything you can't but then they have nothing to prove so like could they have dumped her body in the ocean somewhere then that's why they haven't been found any of the remains because i mean think about like animals yeah what is it called the current my question for that would be if he truly was a suspect or a link in the case and there was a potential that she could have been on his boat why was it not searched and why did they not try to get dna

off of the boat if she potentially could have been on there like what what would they have had to have had to be able to search his boat like that so do we know i don't even know what they ever searched it wasn't in any of my findings so youron also says um one of his other stories was the depoc the depoc attorney so the calpher brothers depoc and satish their attorney said that youron called um to say that he was leaving um natalie holloway at the beach that he claims that they were at

and that he would walk home but then texted the depoc the calpher brothers 40 minutes 40 minutes later um youron says that that never happened that he was dropped off at home and the calpher brothers with were in the car with natalie at that time so he's like trying to point the blame at the brothers that was another one of the stories that's interesting um at this time natalie holloway's biological dad he writes a book yes um they have been searching for two months

and increased the reward for information and to find the remains to one million dollars people come forward saying all different things but this is all dead ends and then at one point some man comes forward saying he thinks he saw some the brothers like burying a dead body in a landfill so they like exhaust their resources to search the landfill which is like um i don't know if i saw someone burying a body i would probably call immediately not wait until there's a one million dollar reward i don't know

um so the calpher brothers get or they get arrested again because they're guilty by association for another sketchy friend that they have that is not youron um unrelated again no new information from the brothers because they think okay well now they're arrested for a connection to a different friend that's not youron maybe we can also get information about natalie holloway no new leads um two months in natalie holloway's mom leaves aruba she hadn't been there for two months no i was just about to say could you imagine

knowing that you've where you think that your daughter is where she disappeared from but then have to leave how are you like not only are you not working back where you're from so you have no you're not having you're not creating any type of income but now you're in a foreign country and you have to spend your money there and then you have to um youron was caught on tape confessing to yes the murder yes some guy named patrick that he had befriended do we know what the tape

yes said he confesses but then we can't um and that's when he says that he was actually selling sex slavery um so some guy named patrick that it was like a setup wow and but then he recants that i actually believe nothing that he says like if he said that he killed her i still wouldn't believe his story like do i believe that he did it yes but do also faked a phone call with his dad corroborating the sex slavery theory situation about why but it ended up actually being youron pretending to

be his dad oh my god like he is a scam yes like a straight up scam i do think that back to the cell phone thing i don't believe that natalie's parents got her the international phone plan so there would have been no reason for her to take for her to take her phone and it wasn't like iphone today where you want to take it for pictures yeah like flip bones and the razors and stuff but pictures were not with it so i could understand that like back then i think that that's when

digital cameras were so popular so if she had anything with her it was probably a digital camera i would imagine the thing that i don't understand is you're on all those stories and all of the if the calco brothers knew something and they didn't do it why not tell them their friends because for me if i have information and i'm getting blamed for something i'm sorry but you're going down because i didn't have anything to do with this and i'm not going to jail because you want to do but i think they did have

something to do with it yeah yeah i don't think that they helped kill her i think that they helped either hide her or once i don't really know exactly what i don't have like a strong conviction on this is what happened to her but i do think that it was probably a lot more black and white situation than what anyone yeah he also says niran also says that he the remains were in a foundation of a home

that was being built but the investigators went back and the house was actually the house that he claimed that her body was in the foundation was not actually being built during that time so it was like another lie but i agree with you i think that all of our theories are like conspiracy theories and i think that they are making the situation more complicated i think it whatever happened was very distinct and matter because look at stephanie florida's murder and that also he thought or claims that he

thought that she was a spy essentially like an investigator and trying to get information and they looked at the tabs that were pulled up on the computer he thought it was like an evasion of privacy but she was actually looking up allegedly poker stuff it was like poker websites so i think uran was looking up his own cases though yeah halloween he was looking up his own information which is kind of weird in and of itself because it's like kind of like

newspaper clippings yeah like keep newspaper stuff yeah either he was trying to keep like a like a tabs i guess on on the timeline or where they were out with the investigation or he was looking up how he got away with it you know and then he accused her going through like invading his privacy kind of thing well why was that up on your computer well right he said that she tried to get away and that's when he beat her up and strangled her which this is just pure speculation but i feel like

it probably was a similar situation with natalie i think it's way more just black and white than what we're talking about like i think that she probably went out to have a good time with him she was intoxicated having a really good time things started getting weird she maybe realized at that time possibly decided i just want to go back to the hotel and like go to bed probably asked if she could go back or if they could take her back

and he probably started getting forceful and i think one thing led to the next thing and she ended up dead and his friends helped him cover it that is what i think happened i do not believe that she is alive in 2012 a petition requested by natalie's dad to to declare her legally dead was approved and signed by judge king and beth twitty opposed the petition and as a mother i think that that is in my opinion like a state of denial

like she doesn't want her to be declared dead because that allows her to have some hope like that's closure to a situation like she's dead she's gone there's no more looking there's no more it's it's over yeah and you said that the dad like went broke yeah he exaught he literally went exausted all financial resources until he didn't have any more money to search he hired a private investigator

and they that was okay my my sister uh natalie's dad yeah he hires a pi his name's tim and they go searching for things but again nothing is found and natalie's dad has no more money to keep looking and that is around february 2008 now mind you this is years later right mm-hmm why i don't i don't know that i could justify looking in the ocean like off the coast of a rewrite with years later it's like weird yeah what

are you gonna find and i did think that was a little weird about the whole investigation was like they were going back to question you're on like years later and they even invaded the home of uran and the calco brothers years later what are you going to find did like i don't that i don't understand nothing i found said anything about like defense wounds did did she defend to herself did they have any defense wounds um i do want to say that back to the stephanie

murder the because i don't know if everyone heard to hear christin the time stamps on the things that were searched on uran's computer did not fit the time frame that stephanie was looking was in the room with uran so she couldn't have been the one that was looking up the disappearance of natalie holloway and to that point they also found uran was looking up the relationship between peru and chili and who doesn't extradite in latin america so he was always planning to flee so he was trying to go from

aruba to peru to chili well i guess for me i think that it's very clear that this entire investigation was botched i feel like long for yeah i do i feel like the things that you hear about other cases like um there was marks on his hands or there was marks like a scratch on his neck or there was like you didn't hear anything like that a part of this

like where she had maybe posed a fight or like there was no i don't feel like they investigated in that way like you're talking about dj steve or whatever his name is why was the they didn't explore like 10 people were arrested during the investigation but they were all later released and no one had formally been charged but i don't feel like they went the extra step to and maybe there's some type of reason why they didn't or legally that they couldn't but let's say that you know this

steve guy comes forward and he inserts himself there's a potential that his boat could have been used why was his boat not searched for dna no i agree with that i wholeheartedly agree with that i it's weird that they would have spent the money that they spent on the investigation to then not thoroughly investigate other things yes they're actively spending all this money to search for the body but not putting any type of effort into actually looking at like i said i don't know if they ever looked at defense rooms on anybody um

invading the houses right away probably would have been a better option i know they interviewed the dad and he supposedly in one of the they said that he was arrested at one point and released on suspicion i definitely think the dad knows a lot of information so steve this like i said this was not a theory that was investigated he stepped forward as a witness he claimed that he saw Natalie get dropped off like i said he claimed that he saw that um no videotape he lied about his alibi on the night of

disappearance it's all lies um and one of the investigators said like you lie about little things in your alibi and investigation you're a lie about the big thing so he thinks that he's either covering for himself or for other people he had access to the boat he could take her body to the ocean they potentially said maybe the Panama Canal um why but why not question him more go through a more thorough that's what i'm saying like why was the boat never searched

nope and he said he slept on the boat from two to four why what a weird and where where was the boat where did you sleep on the boat who were you with who can corroborate the story that's what's so weird to me and all of the stories that or um lies that all the people collectively involved during this cover-up the lies that they tell a lot of the things i think they thought oh well if we tell this lie and you go along with this lie as if you saw this too then we're never going to get caught up in it but it's just like

the small little lies like the security people wearing black whatever and knowing that the holiday and people wore a gray and yeah like i think that they thought were so smart and then it makes me think what type of crimes were they involved in together before this well like i said the the calpo brothers and uran are known for frequenting casinos to pick up foreign women and it's said that uran is used to picking up american women because he speaks english fluently so that was something that they did

and that's why he always frequenting frequenting the casinos but i do think like even something as little as depot correcting uran and saying oh no remember we took her to see the sharks remember we took her like that's such like a specific lie to talk about like i just feel like it was like a really weird you know what i mean yep like you're adding so many like very specific details i don't know i definitely think that uran did it i think that you could be right and the depot brothers

helped him cover it up but like where is the body i think that the body is somewhere in the ocean i'm sorry but i am not going to be the friend ever that if some shit like this happened and i wasn't involved but i was present during this time you're getting told on like i'm not covering for you like which i don't think it was i'm just saying like his version at one point he said that they one of his confessions that he later recanted was that uran did have sex with Natalie Holloway and that her body started convulsing

and he didn't know what to do so he called the calico brothers or he called one of his friends and they said that leave the body go home leave the body there will disclose it that was one of the confessions again i could potentially believe that confession i could potentially believe that sure but again if there is an accident i am calling 911 yeah i'm not trying to cover up something like if it was a consensual situation i'm not covering that up like i'm literally calling the ambulance but based on the fact alone that they went

and had women at the hotel and were like there's conversations about getting videos and photos of like naked women or sexual relations like your fucking sketch as hell and i don't trust you you have something to do with murders was christin looking at me like she texted me something about it okay depop cowpo had a different version when an investigator asked if she had sex with all three he responded she did you'd be surprised how easy of course i guess one of the investigators asked him if he

drugged like date rape drug her drink and depop said i've never drugged someone i believe that she from other information that i gathered she started drinking very early that day just knowing that she was a five foot four hundred and ten pound girl if she had been drinking all day long i don't think it would have taken her to be drugged to be out of her mind if that makes sense like the decisions that she potentially would be making that late at night after been drinking all of those

hours she probably didn't even have to be drugged because she was probably so intoxicated she might not even have known where she was so what is your we need to go investigate what is your theory like what what do you rest on whatever did it i do think that you're on depop and satish i think they're all involved and i think potentially steve could be involved because he's not involved

so i think that it's very very possible that whatever transpired did not end well and steve could have very well taken her body off i think where was he during two and four a.m he said he was sleeping on the boat no you weren't sleeping on a boat you were dumping a body on the boat that's what you were doing i mean that's just like such specific hours so specific and also why are you inserting yourself into an investigation like a normal person would not put themselves that was not part of an investigation would put themselves

in an investigation unless their conscience wasn't clear but also where are the bloody clothes are there anybody bloody clothes where would they have been there would have been some type of dna found somewhere there would have been defense wounds there would have been something where is all of that there's nothing there's nothing so that's i mean maybe there's an expert on the case i don't know we need to contact them because i'm invested i'm i'm also going to aruba so i literally will go to the beach where he

claims he was and see what i was see what you see yeah because the fishermen it was the fishermen's hut like there was three fishermen that would have seen them he said that they said that unless they were deaf this is their like almost verbatim unless they were deaf deaf deaf or blind they would have seen them or heard them just like people would have seen if she returned to the holiday in at any point um i had asked people to send me messages if this affected their childhood or

raising or whatever in any way and i'm going to give some of them over to christin so that she can post them in stories on our instagram page but one girl had sent me a message and said that her parents would never let her go on a girls trip ever and that she was 28 engaged with a baby and they said they still say no to girls trips and um that she totally remembered them becoming way more strict and that she was younger than me but still remembers it

and that it totally impacted her and other people that she knows as well so i think there's a lot to be said about just men in general and how they view women right like so now you're going to a foreign place where potentially there are language barriers you don't know how men in other countries look at women you don't know what they're how they were raised or anything like that christin just sent me this quote from depot cowpo to tell you what quote to tell you quite frankly dress like a slut and talks

like one too he said would go into a car with three strange guys and her mother claiming her conditions enough with this bs already that doesn't give you a reason regardless of the circumstance that doesn't give you a reason you you literally have this girl that's missing dead unconfirmed but i believe she is and then those are the types of statements that you're out here making like that speaks volumes about your character and almost like a justification of well this happened to her because she was

a slut or because you know that's not okay so i would love to know what other people think um just like i said on instagram and if you don't follow me over there then um i would love to have you guys write into us on dms and or you know comments on the page to just let us know what your thoughts are on this um if it impacted you in any way and you're raising um if your parents became more strict um this is probably more applicable to girls than guys but you know i don't

know um what did you say we would love to hear both and if you guys have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on instagram make sure that you follow us over there you can also subscribe to our show um by using the purple podcast app on any apple device type coffee combos click subscribe click the fist star and leave us a written review we're also on spotify and i believe pretty much any other podcast app that you could get um i hope that you guys have a great

week and we'll chat soon