Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 205: True Crime Talk: Jodi Arias

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

Kail and Lindsie discuss the scandal and media sensation surrounding the murder of Travis Alexander by his girlfriend Jodi Ann Arias in Mesa, Arizona in 2008.

I hate gift giving and receiving receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say? Thank you? This is coffee convos with kale Lowry and Lindsay Chrisley. I really want you to be in your feels kale That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you a spirited discussion about motherhood friendship family and life in the public eye I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's kale and Lindsay Good morning everyone. Welcome to coffee convos podcast I was kind of secretly but like not secretly hoping that you were gonna sing that and then you did I've had a really weird morning I feel

Not to like go off on like a super deep tangent But I cried for the first time in a long time because I felt so overwhelmed with like things because I'm having a really hard time with like Time management and they're all good things. So like I don't I'm not saying this to like complain because there are all things that I Should be very happy about but just like not having structure because we have talked about on the podcast so many times Our work follows us everywhere. We go and like no disrespect to anyone who works in nine to five This is not shade. This is not me judging. This is just I personally could never go back to a nine to five with four kids and everything You know that they're involved in and so when I am saying that I would I'll do social media Tiktok Instagram podcast like everything that I do

Follows me throughout the day and into the night and into the early mornings and just like whatever And so I'm having a really hard time because when I'm trying to spend time with either myself or with my friends I'm also working and so I feel like I'm just my mind is in a hundred places at once and I can never just Have set structured hours for certain things and so this morning I felt like I was being pulled in a hundred directions and I just didn't know what was what you know What I mean, so maybe next week I can sing sing the intro, but today was a little off for me You know, we all have those very off days last night. It was for me and I actually You guys all hear this after the fact and have already seen my Instagram stories

but I'm gonna talk about it just really quickly of The shift in the new year and I feel that I can say this for you, too That I have such a desire to change up so many things and I think it started with the rebranding of coffee combos podcast and a Potential future project that we're gonna work on together. I'm completely rebranding the southern tea I have almost completely wiped my Instagram kill wait your personal Instagram Yeah, wait time out time out time out for the rebrand of the southern tea

Would you just keep the same branding but remove Katie from the picture? No. No, okay completely I am Completely rebranding in the same way that we rebranded coffee combos and you know that that is extensive it's a lot of work and it's a lot of stress and With people like us who are very I won't say that I'm a creative person in the sense of like I can't draw or do anything like that, but my mind truly never stops when it comes to creative ideas so settling on something is something that I have like a really hard time with and really showing that level of diversity because

coffee combos is Such like a vibe in itself and then I feel like baby Mamas is such a vibe in itself and I have a whole different identity on this other and tea and this is actually something that I Wanted to talk about because we have gotten collective comments about both of us and being different on Both of our shows and I think that people don't realize that you and I have been doing coffee combos together since 2017 yeah, it's been what four five years and so that's a long time to work with someone and to be able to build a

Rapport with that other person. It's almost like I could podcast with Keel in my sleep literally like we just know what's what and so Yes, the vibes are gonna be very different but you also have to realize that when Kale's podcasting with V that vibes very different because that dynamics very different right and when I'm Podcasting with someone else that dynamics very different and I haven't podcast with someone else for like four or five years So, um, I don't know. There's just like so much change that's going on But also it's like welcomed change as well and also often do stress. Yeah, no, I I totally agree with that I wasn't I wasn't trying to come off as complaining

I completely understand what you're saying like good stuff positive things But also, I mean stress is stress at the end of the day like good bad in between Whatever it's still stress. So it still takes a toll. So I was just saying you were in a slumpy slump and we're gonna We're gonna get you out of this lump and also I would like to have a private conversation with you on our own time and dime That's something that I've been regularly saying like on my own time my own dime about Scheduling and How to like reel it all in because it took me forever to figure out the system that I currently have and it's Works pretty good, but I feel like kill you're gonna have to get to a point where you have to start saying no

And you don't do that a lot. Yeah, no a hundred percent Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with that like there's just certain things that I have to say I need to get it together Or what is this saying like nothing changes if nothing changes, right? Like I can't expect for my schedule and my time management to just magically be better if I'm not willing to make the changes To make it better. It's like going to the gym I can't keep complaining about not losing weight or not feeling good And then I'm not going to the gym and not making my health a priority You know what I mean? Like so it's like that so I agree with you and people say to about

Priorities it's like is it a priority if you're not prioritizing it So like if it's not something that you're willing to prioritize take it off your priority list This is true. And this is very true. This is very very true. I'm like, we're having literally like a come to Jesus Yeah, um, okay, so I Know that you are not super excited about this and like we're not very thrilled Some of my true crime pics um, I wasn't thrilled thrilled about the Black Dahlia But I truly got invested in it and I still like as of last night was still looking at stuff

So I think that um, that says you shouldn't always like Judge a book by its cover. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this case that we are covering today is Jodi Arias and I feel like everyone who would potentially be listening to this podcast and bullshit has heard about Jodi Arias and All of the stuff that like I found I don't want to like sound like a crazy person But this might sound a little crazy I think one of the reasons that I got so invested in this when it was going on But like also through the research process was because to me

Um as insane as all of the stuff was that transpired It also wasn't very far-fetched to me which part wasn't very far-fetched that it could have been somebody else No, no, no, like no, it definitely was her. Yeah um The story wasn't very far-fetched like I feel like this is something that people who have been in a toxic relationship, um, even though it like didn't get to this degree that there are elements of This story that people could like very easily relate to oh a hundred percent I will I will 100 agree with that because I mean

I maybe I shouldn't say this but like I speak for myself but I probably speak for a lot of other people who are in like A situation ship or a relationship where one person is more invested than the other Or they're involved with someone who is like a narcissist or something where they it makes them feel crazy because they start like I'm a perfect example like I started going through the phone and like doing this and doing that because they were always Gaslighting me and making me feel crazy So then I was acting crazy because I was I needed to prove that what I was saying was true and I'm not crazy Do you get what I'm saying 100% and I think that because of the level of

Realness and relatable factors in this like entire case I think that's why I have been able to get so So fully invested But we're going to go ahead and jump into it for those of you who don't know much about jody areas I'm going to give you guys a little bit of background on her childhood and her early life She was born on july 9 1980 in selenus, california to william angelo and sandy s areas She has one older half sister and one younger sister and two younger brothers And according to areas her childhood days starting from seven years

Old were marked with child abuse and we're gonna like really touch on a lot of that as you know We have this conversation But she claimed that her parents used to beat her with a belt and wooden spoons She actually dropped out of high school in the 11th grade and later earned her gd And she had then developed this knack for photography at the age of 10 and The interests actually continued leading her to pursue it as a profession and take up several part-time jobs As a professional photographer

That's also important later in the conversation. She also took server jobs at a california restaurant located in I think it's called ventana at the ventana in um and spa and That is where she met the restaurants food and beverage manager daryl brewer and they started dating in 2003 areas and brewer together bought a house in california's palm desert and

Decided to pay $2,800 each per month as a mortgage payment Um and to me, I think like $2,800 a month. I'm like, okay. Well, that's so california And then I also think this was like a while ago. So It must have been like a nice place, right? I mean, I definitely think it was probably nice like really nice I watched

The american murder mystery. I streamed it on hulu. I also watched this. I actually loved it Um, I thought they did a really good job With the coverage, but then I also Got even further invested I purchased a book off of amazon and it's called Conviction the untold story of putting jody areas behind bars and although I am not Completely finished with it. I'm pretty far and I think it's a really good book So if you guys are very invested in this case, it would definitely be a recommendation and we'll post all of the resources

Um, but it was dubbed as one of the most outrageous Tales in history. Um, and this case had all the elements passion. Can I stop you right there? I I don't agree that it was that outrageous Like I totally don't kill someone don't murder your boyfriend or your former boyfriend But like I don't feel like it was that fucking crazy So I think that goes back to what I was saying earlier that there are so many elements of this that could Be like very relatable to Couples who have been through toxic relationships. Yeah

However, I do find it to be outrageous because her behaviors were so outrageous and unhinged that um It it truly is troublesome and this case compared to some others Literally had all of the elements That you're like, okay. I understand like how this happened passionless betrayal They dubbed it as a real life fatal attraction and this story did captivate the nation

30-year-old Travis Alexander was found murdered in his home um And they said that the person would have had to have had the physical Strength to be able to overpower him um something that I found interesting And this was you know people talked about that were interviewed talked about how you know good of a friend He was like how smart he was um, how good of a person he was but I found him to be a little

sus because What he was trying to be and trying to display. I don't think was who he truly was Um and the documentary it talked about how he was just like this perfect young man He was very developed religiously had lots of friends super successful attractive guy and he and jody had this fast romance and within two months Jody had decided to become Mormon and to me

just with my Journey and my faith. I think that that is it's been like a life Long journey for me and it's always been prevalent in my life, but not something that I chose to Get saved until way later And did that with Jackson and so I can't imagine just like having this fast romance with someone and then

Adopting their religion within a two month period of time And I think anyone else who does have any type of religious background would tend to agree with me on that even I don't have a religious background whatsoever, but even for me that sounds more like something I would do Based on what I do know about the relationship and how fast it was and how like it's more probably less than love um, it sounds like something that would happen for Approval or validation from the other person versus actually wanting to convert or be religious in that way correct so

that to me was like a major key factor in this when I was kind of pulling apart her personality and For someone to make a decision like that to me told me that she was impulsive I am Lola Blanc post of trust me pulse extreme belief and the abuse of power right here on podcast one Do you think someone in your life is a narcissist find out on our recent episode with dr. Romani Dervisola every narcissistic relationship is a two-person cult all the grooming characteristics

Everything that happens to a member of a cult is exactly what happens to somebody who gets into and gets stuck in a narcissistic relationship Get new episodes of trust me every wednesday on podcast one apple podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts June 10 2008 Mesa, Arizona detective flores and martinez are investigating this brutal murder This is where the camera comes in and I found this to be so crazy but also When they found the camera out it almost made me think that She thought that she was like too smart for her own good because any person that's going to brutally murder someone in this way

But then like actually leave a camera behind That would be like leaving a cell phone behind or um Like yeah, she washed it But also there's like a cavity in the camera that holds an sd card that could potentially be retrievable Like why would you take that risk? Like if you're getting in the mind of somebody who's murdering like was that an actual accident or was she so confident in her Murder that she just thought oh, I'll never get caught. Why not just take it with you and like do dispose of it?

I don't know. So just don't I don't understand They find this digital camera And it's mixed in in the wash and it was travis's camera and it was a new camera And they knew at that point whoever put it in the washing machine put it there to destroy it Obviously with the camera being completely waterlogged And the memory the memory card wasn't destroyed though. So at this point they have questioned and

the roommates and I mean, I'm trying to think if I was a guy, you know, um guys are probably used to like smelling like foul odors, you know You know I'm saying like yeah, I'm trying to put myself like in a college situation or like a young 20 situation I'm roommates with these guys You know, there's probably like smells going on in the house No, totally definitely stinky smelly. I'm tracking. I'm tracking. Yeah, but um The description that the detectives gave of like this foul odor was of a decaying body and although we could not

Really know what that smelled like unless we had smelled one before Wouldn't you like think to like think something's wrong? Like no, totally You know, I feel like what people describe of like a body Feels like the putrid smell like you can't Relate it to anything else. So like I don't know why anyone would think Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just really weird. So I want to backtrack a little bit. Um on June 9th of 2008 just the day before He was found on June 10th. This girl Mimi Hall. She's 28 years old

She had been excited about going on this trip to Cancun Um, she and Travis had actually met at this Mormon church event the previous year and they had plans travel to Mexico to his work retreat and Mimi had said that she just wanted to be friends with him But it was said that Travis had a crush on her and thought that she could potentially be the one But she had not heard from him for days. So she just started reaching out to friends and family and no one else had heard from him either And it was weird because he had a close group of friends like within the church community within his work community So for Travis to go dark for like five days it was said to be super unusual and concerning

So at this point Mimi goes to the house and no one answers So then she calls her friend and her friend's boyfriend and they just start looking around And the only thing they see is Travis's dog But no other movement in the house. So they somehow get the garage code And all three of them Mimi her friend and her friend's boyfriend go in together and then they start noticing the odor So I'm like, okay, they enter the home and they start noticing the odor But the roommates that live there with him Didn't notice the odor. So I'm like, okay, if you are in the moment of this, you're thinking, okay

Maybe the roommates had something to do with it because how would they just like not notice? Well, so I also want to comment on the dogs. So like I have dogs. You have dogs Um, I've also had periods of time where like, you know, my friend Rachel needed to stay with me for you know While she was moving between states and then I've also like bone has stayed with me They're not gonna just like take care of my dog unless I say something, right? So like you have you had to have known like my friends would know if something was up If I'm just suddenly not taking care of my dog anymore So

That whole idea crossed my mind as well. But then I thought, okay We're thinking like roommate situation Did they just kind of like all take care of the dog and like whoever took care of it Whoever fed it fed it like I don't know That situation but then also it led me to believe that maybe Travis lived way more of a secretive life And his roommates and stuff knew about it and it wasn't odd for him to truly be gone for a couple of days I mean, I guess that's fair. I guess that's fair to say. I just I don't know. I'm if it was me I I just don't expect other people to take care of my dogs

Even if they're staying with me But that being said if it was the other way around like if I was at your house Like staying with you for a month or two or something to get off my feet or to get on my feet And you were not taking care of your dog. I just feel like it's in my Like it's just who I am to just naturally do it without being asked But I don't expect other people to be the same way. Do you know what I'm saying? So For sure. Yeah. No, I get you so then they find Travis's room locked and

Then they go and knock on the roommate's door and a guy by the name Zach Billings comes out And He gets the spear key to Travis's bedroom the second that he opens it up. He sees blood everywhere So at this point flag. Yeah, like yeah, super red flags. So at this point Detective Flores who was actually Mormon himself Was joined by Juan Martinez who was a deputy attorney for Maricopa County? they get involved and

Immediately start talking about how shocked they were about how clean and orderly the crime scene was And that there was like a lot of blood on the mirror and on the sink. There was blood on the blinds on the floor um They remove the body and then they find a 25 caliber casing but they find no weapons or no ammo and They knew At that point the room had been cleaned to a degree because the sheets were off the bed And his body had been it seemed to like have been placed in the shower in the way that it was

and It almost was like his body had been Rinsed off And they knew that there were no signs of forced entry which led them to believe that it was an inside job So at that point that's when they're probably like, okay red flag roommates um And they knew also that the person with it being an inside job that the person would have had to have been Very comfortable

So they start questioning the roommates and are like, how do you live in a home? With that foul of a smell for five days and not know something that's going on Immediately like if I that would be the first thing that I'm looking at is the roommates Like you had to have smelled that and known something was wrong There's no way this is stinky men smelly men living in a house. Like there's just no way Well, and I'm like, I mean how stinky could they have been, you know, then I'm like, okay Are these people just like dirty as fuck like why? Why is it that stinky all the time?

I Don't know. Um, I have four boys and I don't yeah, I joke about like smelly socks I'm like the bath or everyone someone is always shitting but like outside of that I can't honestly say I mean even with I have three dogs four boys and I can honestly say that I cannot Relate the smell of anything in my house between the dogs and the kids to a dead body like there's no way No way and I mean, I don't know what a dead body smells like but I feel like I'm immediately going to Like I have the nose of a bloodhound. So like I am going to be alerted immediately So I still find that to be a little bit odd. Um, so

That's where we get to june 10th. That's where they find The sheets and the wash with the digital camera and immediately with her background after, you know, I Research and find out that, you know, like she's into photography and stuff I'm like, okay. Well that because once they do get into the camera They see that these photos are like pretty artsy fartsy. Um, I'm like, okay, definitely She was the one taking the photos, but it's weird because she is in photos on the camera But then tries to be like, oh, well, you know, like that kind of looks like me

It's just weird to even have camera like a camera present during this time because From what I know, I'm pretty sure it was pre-meditated So like well at least the way home was pre-meditated But um, it's just a very weird time to have like a camera going at all let alone putting it in the washer for sure so Just to get into A little bit of his childhood

um He had a really horrific childhood like he grew up very poor in southern california his mom and dad were drug addicts and His mom would go on these binges and leave the kids without food He was like beaten and neglected in horrific ways and when he was 10 years old He was rescued and went to live with his grandmother and that's when he was introduced to the Mormon church Um by her and his whole life was turned around by Him being introduced to the Mormon church. So

At the age of 18, he had chosen to go on a mission to each other's about christ And this was like a seven day a week job So he did this mission for two years in Denver and then returned to southern california and then that's where he finds his work with prepaid legal services and Just to give a little bit of background on prepaid legal services it was like a multi-level marketing company that was very popular with Mormons and um in 2004 is when he relocated to messa, arizona and

That area is known for having one of the largest Mormon communities outside of salt lake city, utah It was said that travis was a very highly sexual man And was harboring a secret and in the Mormon church You are not to have sex outside of marriage and he was Pretty much juggling this double life like double life like harboring a secret as in he's had sex outside of like Yeah outside of marriage and things like that or harboring a secret like potentially gay well, so So harboring a secret that he was having sex outside of marriage, but as we Later get into this

Some of the allegations from jody are pretty pretty wild about him um And I don't want to talk about it yet, but like it's it's a lot I'm the Leblanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth and we are the hosts of trust me Are you prone to mental shortcuts and errors in your judgment? Find out on our recent episode with Amanda Knox and christopher robinson Those are the most closely examined three seconds of my life in order to show me as someone who didn't care That her roommate had been murdered prior to all that is the media selection bias Which little chunks of reality get looped and handed to you get new episodes of trust me every wednesday on podcast one

Or wherever you get your podcasts So He was you know kind of juggling this double life Wanted to date do fun things while also wanted to be a good Mormon and so many girls like really liked him and that is How he met jody is they had worked for prepaid legal services like she

Went and met him At this like retreat type thing. I would consider it more of like a kickoff Tight meeting or whatever. So I've never I've never I I am a sucker for mlm Companies like I don't think that they have like a super So I get it like they're they have a bad rap like they're predatory whatever whatever But like I've never heard of this one specifically so He was like this

Um, I mean he was considered a salesman, but also, you know, like he did motivational speaking for prepaid legal services um, and they had this conference in los vegas and That's where jody met him and according to her which don't really believe much of what she says They developed a sexual relationship following a week of their meeting. So at this meeting they immediately

um, developed this attraction toward each other and Then like started traveling to all these states together while not really with each other or you know, like a said relationship They would keep in touch through daily phone calls and email exchanges and then in november of 2006 she gets baptized in the Mormon church and That was like a step for her to be closer to him. So in february of 2007 She relocates To and and it's so weird like she she met him had a serious boyfriend that she had been with for a long time

and goes home and like basically breaks up with her boyfriend after Meeting him at this conference. That's too much too soon. This is like a very long time long time boyfriend So it was you know said that after Obviously his body has been you know found Jody reaches out. This is this is where it gets crazy to me jody reaches out to steve flores and offers assistance

So this is a common theme for people who kill someone They think that it's either going to give them like some type of like not ego Like trip, but they insert themselves in the investigation. I think for it could be one of many reasons or multiple reasons Um to give them attention and ego trip But also to maybe deflect and not be a suspect but also ultimately I think it backfires. So it's just It's so weird to me because the first person that I thought of when I Watched this was that Christopher Watts like how yeah, he was on camera and it made me like think of the common traits that they have

um, but She you know reaches out to him to offer any assistance gives the background on their relationship that began in 2007 They dated allegedly for like six months supposedly broke it off mutually But remained very good friends and she had lived in mesa for um all the way up until like april of 2008 and then that's when she relocated to northern california and Jody claims that that was the last time that she had seen him in person And that she had told travis that she did not have the same feelings Or travis had told her that he did not have the same feelings for her

As she did for him and she felt like he was seeing other women So I feel like this is where that conversation could potentially be true And maybe that's where like the jealousy and control Issues start coming in that he was seeing other women And she didn't want to be a part of that so she relocates to live with her grandparents And eight days after his murder floris asked several of travis's friends for their assistance and travis's friends Immediately think that jody might be involved

jody remains that Same story that their relationship came to an end because at first she said that it was because of a mutual You know like they they just decided not to be together and they were better friends But then you know as it goes on She says that she breaks it off and the story from travis's friends is that he broke it off Because he began to see a bit of crazy in her and it was kind of odd because

She was definitely the type of person that could fool you like in a group of friends Also, I feel it. I feel like in this type of relationship. And again, I'm speaking for myself I've been in a relationship where I felt like I knew the other person was Doing some questionable things and or crazy things but then I forgave them and so like I would tell my friends Oh, I'm done with him. I'm done with him. I'm done with her. I'm done with her And then get back with them and then I would have to lie about it. And so I will play I don't I'm not victim-shaming by any means

But I do wonder how much he actually told his friend versus what he told her Do you get what I'm saying? Like I'm sure they were on and off But like maybe he never really did call it off completely with her Well, and I'm just like what he told his friends Well, I'm also kind of like it made me think of Will and I in this situation and like Everybody that listens to either of the podcast knows that you know, we were still like together But like not really together publicly his family all thought probably one whole story

But the actual reality Of you something totally different and I'm sure, you know, I'm like a crazy person and I'm this and I'm that I'm sure that's the stories, but it's like that's actually not the reality and so You know Allegedly all of his friends were super impressed by Jodi in the beginning But they had like this rollercoaster love-hate relationship

And Some of his friends said that they knew that there was something about her that they just didn't like but they couldn't quite put their finger on it and You know when police started interviewing friends There were a few that just like quickly suggested that jodi could have done it So as I was saying 2006 when she meets travis She had been living with an older boyfriend in southern california And how she got involved with prepaid legal was because she had ran into some financial problems

And that's how she learned about it. I feel like she's kind of like a free spirit type person Like she sees an opportunity and she just takes it like whether that's waitressing or photography or you know like this She felt like that's this is where like life was taking her so that's when she goes to this convention in los vegas with a friend of hers and She set up on this blind date with travis Um buying each other irresistible um goes back to this long time boyfriend and with a couple of days

She breaks up with him and when I say a long time boyfriend I'm talking like four years, but still like that's a four-year investment You go to this like little conference meet someone and then break it off like that's a little weird to me and like you said a little too soon um and she you know immediately became so intrigued with being mormon and and she very much latched on to that and um she said she always felt like she was searching for herself and

What she saw in travis was somebody that she felt like could help her and so I don't know because he seemed to kind of like have it semi-together other than living what we would deem a double life and he grew up and had like a Childhood that you would be like okay. Well now I could understand if he was kind of living a wayward life like his childhood would Just I don't want to say justify that but like kind of but she Lived in a stable home in california growing up

Uh was said to be like super quiet good student very artistic very but she also claims that her parents beat her correct So was it stable or was it not because also i'm not again Not victim shaming not blaming but like during this time because she's older than you and I I think I'm pretty sure she's older than us 80 um she was born in 88 you said no in 80 80 so Like 41 I think it was very common during this time to Borderline abuse your children as punishment. So I'm not saying that it was okay But I think that this was something that they I don't know

was it like the Like the spoons or whatever was that like the punish. Do you guys get what I'm trying to say? I'm not trying to say that I'm like I'm not agreeing with the abuse. I'm just saying like I think Many many many many people during this time period their parents like whipped them or used the belt or the spoon or whatever Like that was common. I don't think that that was like. Oh, this is trauma or like I'm abusing you it was Like a common thing. I do think it was pretty common. Um, I've heard what I'm trying to say like I don't I'm not sounding educated On what I'm trying to say, but like I hope that you guys are getting like I'm not I'm not okaying it Well, and although

It's not okay. I do feel like it was probably rather common practice during this time to you And nobody else went around and killed their boyfriends because they claim that they're they were abused by parent their parents Correct. So supposedly, you know, she always from the time she was a teenager She always had a boyfriend And she was one of those that went from one boyfriend to another and this is where really like issues More so began because Men became a weakness

To her. Okay. So fast forward February 2017 That's when she and travis made it official that they were dating Their relationship was no longer long distance. Like I said before they would meet up in different cities They would go on trips together. I'm sure this was, you know fun. Like this is a fun lively relationship probably very little stress they were having lots of sex and

It was said that it was purely like this physical relationship and it ended in june 2007 shortly after they break up Jodi moves closer to travis and miss that arizona, which is major red flag because it's like you break up You have nothing else that holds you there except him because That's who's there. That's like why you're there and then you're gonna move closer so He gets super upset when he finds out about her relocating And then finds it very difficult to cut the cord and this is where I'm talking about like I do think that a lot of this story

Is is like very real life because I think that this really does happen And I think that when you live close to an ex it it does make it really hard to be able to like get over it because you're probably visiting Going to same places that you went when you were like together you would have to be super intentional about Like forging your own life, you know, I think too especially I can relate to this because I feel like Delaware You can drive through the entire state in three hours. So

Um, thankfully for me the only person I ever run into his hobby But you know, it would make it very easy to run into Your ex or people a new person that they're dating if this is a small town Like you said going to the same restaurants or places that you guys would like frequent or whatever So I agree. I think that would be very like frustrating if you're trying to move on from someone or getting over someone And they are now Super close going to all the places and like running into me. So at this point It tells me that she

is a super possessive impulsive type personality, but also outside of that She didn't want this to be over which is why she relocated and so that because she knew you know, a lot of times when people get in and relationships that are purely physical And it's mostly based off of a physical

relationship with someone else I think that it is really hard to cut the cord and with you kind of, you know, the convenience factor that's there um, and You know, Travis was telling people that he wanted her out of his life But at the same time he was also still having sex with her And jody knew how to lure him in it that way. And so Again, I think it was a situation of they knew it was toxic knew, you know, he knew he shouldn't be doing it She knew she shouldn't be doing it. She moved closer so that it could more frequently happen

and It was like an addiction Well, what do you do in a situation where it is super toxic and you're trying to set boundaries, but the person and again I'm guilty of this. So like you said, this is relatable um For example, if you are you find out this is a toxic relationship It's not really working But you and you're saying these boundaries are saying that it's over

But you're still what you're doing doesn't match what you say So what is that supposed to mean for the other person if the other person already has a lack of boundaries and can't set them themselves And is still in this toxic cycle and they're going off of what you do instead of what you say She probably was like, okay, he's saying this but he's still having sex with me And I've dealt with this in my personal life And I'm sure that you have dealt with it a couple of different times in your personal life as well and just as a woman um

I think men view sexual relationships on for the majority um Men view sexual relationships very differently than a woman And I know for me like I'm not giving myself in that way unless there is An emotional reason for me to give myself in that way. And so you know, maybe

What you're saying she was reading into things that it was purely physical for him and it was physical and emotional for her and She wasn't reading the room in the way that he was laying it out Well, it sounds like she's already invested and like you said she doesn't want it to end. So she's not gonna see Clearly with rose color colored glasses on she's already in this toxic cycle. She doesn't want it to end She doesn't see it like it's more emotional for her Where like men are able to compartmentalize like, okay, I really don't like her in that I don't love her enough to be with her

But I'm still gonna get you know, get a nut out. Oh, that's kind of For this episode, but you know what I'm trying to say for sure, so Everyone's probably wondering like how does jody fit in you're probably not wondering how she fits in because it's you know pretty obvious but She claims that she spoke to travis Monday morning and claims that it was a good 45 minutes that morning that they talked Um, and he was guilting her because she wasn't going to arizona

she was going to utah claims that she was going to meet someone there and They weren't fully open and and I think this is also relatable They weren't fully open with each other about their dating lives due to their past history You know, like she might be seeing someone he might be seeing someone They might communicate, but they weren't communicating about this Um, so she says that she leaves northern california on june 2nd 2008 heads to southern california to visit friends And she arrived in salt lake on june 5th 2008 the day after travis was killed

Um supposedly she has this new love interest his name's ryan burns. Um, and he Verifies that she arrived about 11 a.m. On june 5th 2008 She appeared to be completely happy and nothing wrong, but he does mention This ryan guy mentions one thing and this grabs detective flores attention Her hair was a different color than he had last remembered. She was now a brunette Um, and she had all of these cuts on her fingers that she claimed that she got from bartending um Very was she in fact a bartender? We don't know what jody was doing. So she's giving very kasey anthony

Yes, she very kasey anthony vibes here. Okay, so fast forward july 15th 2008 jody and flores finally meet face to face and um, She claims she went to santa cruz first She stayed the night in monorail like literally this story of the details that she gives is terrifying And the way she thought things out is terrifying. So she claims that she stayed the night in monorail The next day she drives to pasadena Then she claims that she got lost and off the 15. She slept in her car uh, this trip took a little over 48 hours and

flores then lets her know that she had plenty of time to go to mesa kill travis make it to salt lake city um, and he lets her know like We have your blood at the scene your hair is at the scene you left a palm print at the scene There's pictures of your sexual encounter from the sd card that they were able to to extract um and Like I said, it goes back to Her interest in photography that the shots that were on the sd card that were recovered were more like these model shots And all of the photos were date and time stamped around 5 30 on

june 4th 2008 and one photo jody is naked. She's in braids um, and the camera had actually taken photos on accident while the murder was taking place um, which is just crazy like I would love to know how that happened and then at this point He places her under arrest for the murder of travis alexander. This is july 15 2008 um flores also spoke to Her parents on this day. Um, and you know, they state jody grew up very middle class She's the oldest of her siblings father owned a restaurant grew up christian had a tumultuous relationship with her parents um when she was in eighth grade she actually got busted for growing marijuana and

And since that incident jody had always hidden everything from her parents um sounds like kasey anthony and That kasey anthony Whole trial situation happened around the same time and they're giving very much the same vibes right now They were probably best friends. Um, so she moves out after her junior year of high school because she you know wanted this freedom um, and it was so weird because

She did a lot of things that i'm like, okay That was like actually smart that she did that. Um, there's gonna be something that I tell you about gas cans in a few minutes but then there are other things that i'm like, okay, you are dumb because days after Travis's death she sits down with her parents and tells them that she has to leave because she might be blamed for something But then she wouldn't tell them what she might be blamed for but now Obviously his body's found like our parents are being questioned by this investigator It's just very odd and her behavior and the interrogation room

Truly will go down as the most bizarre behavior And a defendant like in history wait Which one is the one that does the headstand? Was it her or was that kasey anthony her and she was it's just insane She was so concerned about her makeup before Booking after she gets arrested. She's doing uh a headstand. She's singing. Oh holy night um, it's just very odd behavior for someone who has just been charged with first-degree murder and um a female detective actually tried to talk to her and Turns out which i'm not shocked by this. She communicates better with men than she does women

She then confessed that she went to travis's around 3 a.m. She claims that Uh, they woke up an afternoon to have sex and then claims there was this guy and this girl there and they were the ones who killed travis and that she was taking pictures of travis in the shower and Two white americans wearing ski masks held a gun to her head told her not to go anywhere The other guy told the girl to finish it and then claimed that they had an argument because she wanted to kill jody and the guy didn't and jody claims that Um, he got her registration out of her wallet and threatened her instead of she ever said anything

They would do to her family the same way that they did to travis and got her address i'm just like Literally Literally no like who who can make up that big of a lie like on the spot No, I and no because literally no i've seen what i needed to see And this isn't it like she's had ample time at this point after she killed travis to come up with a believable Reliable alibi and she's just completely dropping the ball. So 27 stab wounds

almost Shot in the head photos on the camera of jody were claimed to be some of the most pornographic triple x-rated photos Um, and what was so hard with this was they had to show premeditated murder to be able to convict and When we're talking about premeditation um, something that I didn't know is that it could be weeks or months of planning to just a couple of minutes um

and you know, it was going to be hard to prove was this premeditated or was this heat of passion Um, and the arrest of jody is what made this a national story because Her mugshot is one for history books. It was almost like a glamour shot um and anytime a beautiful woman and I think we saw this in You know casey anthony's case too, but anytime a beautiful woman is facing death penalty. It really seems to capture the nation's attention

And the crazy thing is is jody did not um, like shy away from media, which is just crazy Like she's telling like all of these wild lies which makes me think that like mental health definitely plays Apart in this because she's telling all of these wild lies. She's trying to cover up all of this stuff But yet she's also like taking the risk speaking to media and she decides that she's going to tell her story on inside edition Um, so where is what where is her lawyer and her parents at this point? Because I don't remember ever hearing about any of them Well, she actually had a public defender like public defense attorney, but you know, obviously she's going on inside edition

This is the defense lawyer's worst nightmare. Um Just because she could not stay away from the media and she was basically holding press conferences in jail um and it was said that she likely felt like in her mind that she could flirt her way through this trial and um Are her and kasey anthony related in any way because i'm just i'm feeling like they're fraternal twins right now well and agreed and

She had this court appointed attorney, but the behavior with her attorney was so bizarre So like she had phone calls with him every day But it was so casual like you are facing what you're facing But the conversations are so casual as if it was just like you're having a coffee talk with a girlfriend um she asked him to watch her cat and um It became very clear to him that the intruder story like didn't make much sense, you know after Conversations conversations. He's like right right sense

um and she claimed that Travis was a violent sexually abusive Person and a pedophile and then changes her whole story About the intruder story and said it was all lies. She did kill him, but then she decided that it was for self defense So maybe start with that if that's what your defense is and that's your story and you're sticking to it Maybe you should have started with that So almost five years after travis's death is when the trial starts january 2nd 2013

They show me me hall She testifies that she felt very safe with travis that he never tried anything sexual with her that he confided in her That he had a stalker in the final months of his life and that he had slashed um tire several times broken into his email accounts bank accounts would sneak into his house through the doggy door and sleep on his couch at night without him knowing that she was even there and That's where I feel like like she truly was like mentally unhinged Like there's no possible way that she was in a right mind to be doing this kind of stuff

Like this is literally like psychopath stuff. Didn't she like hide behind a christmas tree one time and travis came home Or a friend came home and she like popped out. I think I did hear something about that That is freaking weird and like he would wake up and she would be on the couch or she Don't quote me on this, but i'm pretty sure in one of the shows There was a there was something said about her crawling through a doggy door or like a sliding glass door And like being at the house and stuff and she would like crawl into bed with him. Yeah, so that that's what i'm talking about No one normal and when I say normal I say that very loosely always, but that's just not like that's unhinged Wait, can I tell you?

One time I was dating this guy and like I always felt like he was at the house and at one point It was just like I was kind of tired of it And so he never had a key to my house and I locked every single door and I know for a fact that I locked every single door Because I did it with the intention to like you're not coming to my house when i'm not home kind of thing right and This was not hobby because I know there was a similar situation with hobby This man went through my basement No, and then told me that I left the back door unlocked and I know for a fact that I did not leave the back door unlocked Because I intentionally locked every single door, but I guess I didn't have the basement one locked. I don't know

That's literally terrifying and I would shit my pants and then pass away Um I would just like to say any person who is listening to this Who would ever even like? Think murder was a good idea Everything comes out at trial and like nothing is missed and you're going to get caught and I say this all the time with technology The way it is today. You're getting away with nothing They look at you know the wounds

Um and talk about defensive wounds and if you have injuries to the backs of your forearms or the palms or backs of your hands it's consistent with like someone trying to grab a knife and How though like I don't understand. I don't really know. I mean they bring in experts like Literally you go to trial like you're gonna get busted on stuff. So oh, no, no, no I just meant like the marks and like where they are because I'm thinking about like If I'm trying to do I guess the forearms. I could see yeah, yeah the backs of the hands

I'm not sure you're probably following common pattern of how someone would defend themselves and like the way that they're Their hands and arms would be in a state of defense. Right, right, right? Okay. So On may 28th 2008. This is one week before travis's murder um the alans are introduced and and as the police are interviewing them a car pulls up and it's jody and They reveal that that is their granddaughter and she had recently moved in with her grandparents and

supposedly there was this burglary that happened and they claimed that a dvd player was stolen cds A little bit of cash and a 25 caliber gun, which was what was used to shoot travis um and in my opinion I think that she Same opinion as the prosecution has is that she stages the burglary to get the gun and then she gets on this road trip for the revenge killing and Again, this is purely my opinion, but I think that it was a situation of You and I aren't going to be together and I don't necessarily want to be with you

And you don't necessarily want to be with me, but I don't want you to be with anyone else So i'm just going to let it off you and move on with my life and that That's truly like what I think At the trial daryl brewer Was introduced and you know said to be a super handsome built guy. He was two decades older than jody Um, and this was the guy that she had dated between 2002 and 2006 and she had broken up with him after Meeting travis. So this is that guy. He'd actually requested for his image not to be shown on anything televised and it was granted He claims that on june 3rd of 2008

jody went by his house for two gas cans and And that would be super important because If she had two gas cans She would know that that would allow for her not to have any record of any stops in arizona Right So Lisa andrews which is travis's ex-girlfriend. She was also mormon It was claimed that he was cheating. This is all happening at trial. He was cheating on her with jody

and she claims that he was very sexual and jody testifies at the trial that after her baptism she and travis were in her room He bent her over the bed and started having anal sex with her And at this point, you know, they start talking about how it's combining sexuality and religion and Emotional abuse factors get brought in here Um, where it was alleged that sex was used as power and a weapon jody claims that she had walked in on him masturbating to child pornography and had an interest in young boys

jody had a recording of she and travis and In this recording. She's masturbating. So is he in this recording He says it sounds like a 12 year old girl having her first orgasm And this recording was so sexually graphic After the first month of this trial the viewership just like really started to increase because there was it was so graphic in nature so wild so She quickly became the most hated woman at the time

People wanted to see her attacked and the prosecution was going to deliver on this And during the trial um jody's attorney really wanted them to solely focus on the evidence and Nine he claims at the trial, which I felt was very interesting And a definite way to try to to persuade the jury He says that nine out of ten days. He doesn't even like his own client And this was a very memorable statement at the trial He says that this was you know heat of passion

And crime of manslaughter and nothing more the jury deliberated for four days and On may 8th 2013. She was found guilty of first degree murder and minutes After before even being sentenced jody gives like this on camera interview to this local fox reporter in phoenix Um that she was just like very overwhelmed um

It was unexpected and she would rather get death over life because she felt like that was Her ultimate freedom Two weeks after she was sentenced They would vote if she would live or die This takes three days and then deliberations come to an end eight voted for death four voted for life Um the judge had no choice but to declare a mistrial and you know, this is completely shocking That they have to do all of this over again. So october 2014 hung jury

a year and a half later the Penalty phase trial february 25th 2014 after six days of deliberation another mistrial 11 voted for death one voted for life and under arizona state law prosecution Only has two tries for the death penalty It had been said that like justice truly should be blind And that in this case because she was beautiful. They felt that like definitely played a part in this april 13th 2015 Uh 2015 natural life in prison with no chance for parole which i agree

She should not have had any opportunity for parole So to me it was like very interesting that she was I mean it really speaks to like who she is as a person that she Does all of this she Feels like you know, potentially she could get off She doesn't get off. So then she immediately like just wants to die like I don't want to suffer. So Go ahead and kill me now. I mean, I don't I think that's that's a cop out You don't get to kill somebody and then just say oh kill me. So I don't have to suffer. No, you took someone's life

So you should be in prison and miserable like that is how I feel because she did it in cold blood But I also have very mixed feelings on that just like in general because as taxpayers We also have to pay for the people that Have done these things that have you know, in this case, it was very obvious, you know, right? But I think to your point there like if we're talking about taxpayer dollars And making sure because I don't know about everyone else here, but I pay 30 percent of my income to taxes. So agree with you there, but she Is clearly unhinged and a little bit psychotic. So therefore

jail Yes, I want her to be miserable because she took someone's life, but she also needs actual rehabilitation And again, we've had this conversation so many times. I don't think that there is enough of that in actual prisons because prisons are a business Well, and then you have to look at what would she be being rehabilitated for because she's never getting out like there's no possibility for parole She sentenced to natural life in prison So, I mean, I guess to the sense of like to be in a humane type situation And you know regardless of her life circumstances, whether that be in jail for you know prison for the rest of her life

Or whatever, you know resources should be provided for her to be able to Better herself and not be in that mental state for the rest Of her existence, but also in the same sense that would take more funding to be able To do that. So like what is the right answer here? I think the right answer here is for her to get natural life in prison With no chance of parole strictly because she wanted death. Right Like I don't think that you should be able like to have an opinion like you you took someone's life So, you know, it was so gruesome and then for you to even be so callous to think that you have an opinion about like What should happen to you at that point? What should happen to you is what the government deems?

Right to be appropriate. What the jury decides How does that that whole situation work too? Like when a jury decides something can the judge ever overrule that or like change it? Or how does that work? You know, I'm not sure but I don't believe so I believe, you know the crazy thing with all of these mistrials too like It has to be I think for For death Don't they all have to like it can't be because it was the last time that they deliberated

It was 11 voted for death and only one voted for life But like it wasn't what is it called like unanimous or whatever like right? Yeah, unanimous when everyone agrees with the same Yeah, so, um, I don't know. I think it definitely depends on the jury I don't think that it comes down to like the judge overruling on something like that But I could be totally wrong, but I would love to know what other People's opinions are on this if there are any outliers that think that there could have been Someone else involved in this is no way she had any assistance No way like I think it is so clear cut of exactly what happened

um The camera thing really backs everything up because again it was time stamped so I think it really paints the picture of what actually happened the things that are in question are um Things that we just wouldn't know only the two would know like travis and jody like the amount of Emails and stuff that went back and forth between them. It was crazy like 80 to thousand emails and g chat g chats and text messages

Um over the period of their relationship. They were never out of touch. So I feel that's why I believe that even though He may have said to her this wasn't gonna be a thing I do think that there was some more like, you know actions didn't really meet the words Um, it's also crazy to me because I don't do it. Um Like when couples in situations like this or just in general like I don't email my partner Like that's just not something I do. So it's always fascinating to me that like couple like people that are dating email but like maybe

I'm thinking what is g chat like why why not just text or just call Someone know that like works in an office setting that's on email all day long like okay That's why they would be communicating over email. I mean I could be totally totally wrong Um, I know that I've heard girlfriends say oh well, you know, I blocked him So the only way he could communicate with me was through email or you know a guy saying that Um, first of all, I'm not gonna go to those links to email you like I do email in regards to like Custy exchanges and stuff like that. Right. That's like for formality purposes But I'm not emailing to like get in communication with someone over email like if I don't get you on text

Like I don't need to talk to you It kind of pisses me off between like because of the similarities between her and kasey anthony. I do I'm a little bit frustrated with um, even though jody areas like admitted it the the the very odd behaviors The lies the like manipulation Things like that were very similar to kasey anthony and I just felt like it infuriates me Again, re-inferiates re-inferiates me that kasey got off and then jody areas did not Well, yeah, I mean and then also I would love to know Back to the we're just gonna say it was a staged burglary

Um, does anyone have any questions? I think that her grandparents 25 caliber gun was what was used to shoot him Because like there's no question to me. So nobody heard the gunshot allegedly That that's very off. Does he have like two or three roommates? Yeah, he had multiple roommates. I'm like, how did they not Know that any of this was going on. Like yeah, I don't know Were they not Like there's no way that a gunshot goes off in a house with just from the documentary if their rooms were The way they were depicted in the show like with in that close of quarters There's no possible way that a gun could have gone off in the house and no one heard it

Well, also just like the struggle too and like the just everything that's going on like you have to be able to hear I know for me In my house right now where I'm at and even the new house like you will be able to hear a struggle Yeah, like we I you would be able to hear it I mean you might not be able to like make out words or whatever, but you know something is going on Same for a gunshot and then also just like outside of that if you live in a situation that had like you have roommates At what point does a roommate? file

Some type of restraining order because it's like okay. It's one thing for Her to be coming into the home because of travis But if she is making travis feel uncomfortable by sneaking into the bed in the middle of the night sneaking in through The dog door coming in through the sliding glass door the garage door Whatever hiding behind christmas trees at what point is a roommate able to file a restraining order or something? Like harassment or breaking an enter like things like that like that is so strange to me because I feel like At that point when you're hiding and you're crawling into spaces that you should not be getting into like that is Now you're putting the roommates safety, you know at risk. I will say

Um just again goes back to the flawed system But I do feel like there's so many root holes with restraining orders and stuff that you know, maybe it could have been hard for someone that They even though it was like breaking into their home or whatever It wasn't directly Targeted at them and so You know, she posed no risk to them personally maybe so but we can't I

I don't know if you're if you're like sneaking into someone's home and clearly she was capable of murdering travis Why wouldn't she have hurt a roommate to to get to travis like you've you've already breaking breaking and entering Um, do you know what I'm saying and like This is true too. Um, I didn't I did just want to touch on before we go um about the mixed messages in the relationship because I do feel like that that is probably very common um, and It going back to him wanting to still sleep with her but not want to be in a relationship with her

um, I had written down You need to have a clean break because this does not work and it causes turmoil long term um, and I can only say that from experience doing this like If I had to go back And change things from the day I moved out Uh, when I felt for divorce I would have had a completely clean break because the level of Uh

psychosis it almost feels like that you live in when You don't know like what you're doing. Are we working towards a relationship? Are we Just doing this because it's just comfortable Um, are we just too toxic people? I think when you break it off Everything should be broken off and it's so much easier said than done. Um, but Shit like this gets out of hand so quick

And she obviously had one of those types of personalities that not to say that He didn't fuel some because I think when you have two people um When their personalities mesh it like creates Creates like certain personality traits in certain people that they might not have with another person So who knows what he was actually Doing that was causing her to get to this level not that that's an excuse But obviously enough that she became so unhinged to the point that it took his life and it's just

Crazy like they were actually in a sexual encounter and then this happens She the whole situation for me is to your to your point about Like loot poles and things like there's just so many red flags that could have been avoided But I think people just like don't really expect I'm gonna guess you know what I like you can't expect someone go from zero from a hundred zero to a hundred

But at this point I feel like that's what we should expect and so we should be able to protect ourselves and See the red flags and like the roommate should have been able to like call authorities or like file something or Travis should have been I don't know. I don't I don't know doing all of this sneaking in sneaking through the dog door sleeping on the couch He knew of this but like he's still sleeping with her and still entertaining that situation I'm like what actually was going on like there's way more to the story than what what we know Yeah, yeah, because no one's just like someone's sneaking in my house coming through my dog door and sleeping on my couch and like I am aware of what's going on and they're continuously doing this like psychotic behavior And I'm still sleeping with them like I'm crazy then agreed. I mean, I'm guilty of it

I've done it with my my ex my ex is before like oh, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done And then I can't tell my friends that I'm back on so then my friends think one version and I'm out here like still Entertaining this person. Yeah, like it's it's insane. So I would love to know people's thoughts on this case Definitely will be posting resources for you guys to be able to read on your own And if you have not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on instagram Make sure you follow us over there and make sure you subscribe to our show By searching the purple podcast app. We're on spotify

Um podcast one where else kill everywhere everywhere. We are Son google play the stitcher pretty much anywhere you can listen to your podcast And also you can listen on coffee combos podcast.com and I hope you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. See you