Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 81: Therapy With Javi, Childhood Consequences, & People Pleasing,

Episode Date: May 30, 2019

This week Kail talks w/ therapist Kati Morton. Kail talks about getting therapy w/ her ex-husband, Javi, why her relationships haven't worked, & how your childhood can affect you as an adult. Kail discusses the balance between her personal life, Teen Mom 2 & social media. She explains why she's misunderstood & a people pleaser. Kail talks about her first experience going to church. Kati explains why Kail is comfortable in unhealthy relationships.

Hey guys, welcome to Coffee Combos. This is my first episode ever without Lindsay. So bear with us here. I have a special guest today, Katie Morton, who has been on our podcast before, but this is more to like dive into more one-on-one stuff. So welcome to the podcast again. Yeah, thanks for having me. So last time we kind of talked about everything. I feel like our conversation never stopped. It went for like 90 minutes. It's like from relationship stuff to like first time having sex. Really everything in

between. Yeah, no, but it was good because I felt like it was like natural. We didn't have to, you know, like we never had to worry about what we're going to talk about next. So that was kind of nice. Sometimes we have interviews and it's like, what, where do we go from here? Oh, yeah. And they're like, they give us one more to answer. So we're like, okay, this isn't where we saw this going.

Therapist. Yeah. So tell me about that. And they're like, not today. No. You're like, mmm. Do people say that? Oh, yeah. But you're like, but that's why you're here.

Totally. But they, it's like, they think they want to get better, but it's hard. Yeah. Therapy is hard work. It is. I have struggled with it myself. I've tried to like go to therapy and I don't know. I just find it really hard to connect with therapists. And then it's like, how many times do I have to go through this story again and again and again to find the person that I like connect with. And so I just like gave up. I feel like.

And it is hard to find someone, but when you find someone, it's like amazing. Yeah. I mean, I went through probably three therapists after my first therapist who I loved, Rebecca, she retired. Oh, wow. And I was like devastated. I've been seeing her for like two years when I was in high school or in a high school college and like into grad school. Yeah.

And then it took me about three or four like therapists where they weren't bad. It was just like, one was way too expensive and I was like, hello and broke. And then the other one was like a dude. Yeah. No. No, Vince dudes. I just, I need to talk to a girl. Yeah. And then the last one I tried just didn't get me.

Yeah. I can see why that would be hard. Yeah. My one. That's normal. Like take your time. My one friend, she just started going to therapy and she said she saw like, she was going through it. And so she said that she saw three therapists in a week to like try to figure it out just so that she could find someone that she connected with, but also

to like figure it out quickly because she wanted to deal with what she was going through. And then she ended up going back to the one that she met first. And now they are still going strong. Yeah. Because you might see others and then you realize like, oh, I kind of did like this. Right. Because the thing about therapy that honestly the reason I have my YouTube channel in general is people don't talk about what the process is like enough.

Yeah. And we have no idea what to expect. Yeah. Like when you're going for that first appointment, you're like terrified. You like flip on the switch to turn on their light and you're like, oh my God, I don't even know what they're going to ask me. Oh, well, I've definitely cried at the first appointment because I'm like, what am I supposed to do? Where do I even start?

Yes. You know what I mean? And it's funny. I cry every time too. So don't worry. Okay, good. Well, no, not good, but you get what I'm saying. No, but yeah, it's like I'm just a crier. Yeah. But it's almost like the permission to talk about things like makes me cry. Yeah.

Because I'm like, oh my God, I've been holding onto this for so long. Yeah. Yeah. But where, how do you know kind of like where to start in a session? Like when someone walks in to you and they want to talk about something and how do you even know where to start? Usually I just start by asking like, you know, so I know it's hard to make an appointment. I personally know. Yeah.

So what prompted you? Yeah. Like what's going on? Okay. And that's kind of where I start. Yeah. A therapist almost always will ask some version of that. Like what brought you in today or some kind of thing like that?

Any therapist out there listening? Yeah. Probably like, oh my God, yes. That's how we usually start it. Unless there's something like, because I do have people fill out like the basic paperwork. If there's something on that where I'm like, okay, so you've been to two other therapists. Like how did that go? What was that like? Yeah. What did you like or not like? And that kind of takes the like pressure off of them to

share their story and for them to share like what their process has been like. So it's almost like a softer way in. I remember the last time I went to therapy was with my ex-husband. It was supposed to be like couples counseling and I ended up going by myself because he wasn't coming. Which is like such an indicator. Yes. Sorry to say that way.

And then he went to one and she'd had us do the exact same exercise as I had done the week prior. And I don't know, like some of the exercises that she was giving me, I feel giving us, I felt like we're not compatible, I guess is the word I'm looking for. Like for you guys? Yeah. For us. Like she wanted us to like pull out our feeling sheet in the middle of an argument. And I was just like, this isn't not practical for us. For anybody in the middle of an argument?

Yeah. How about like later? Or before. Like later. But I do, obviously that marriage didn't work out, probably not because of counseling, but other reasons. But I do want to go back to therapy, I just, it's hard to find the time when there's like kids and jobs and everything else, but I do need to get back into it. It's hard, trust me.

I'm no better. Yeah. I've been seeing my therapist, Jana, off and on for seven years. And it took me a year this last time, yes, a year. From when I knew I needed to go back before I made an appointment. Yeah. And I know better. Like get your shit together, KPG.

That's so funny. I think there's like a huge misconception too. Like people think that you go to therapy and because you're, you have issues, but I think everyone could benefit from therapy and therapists go to therapy, so that's funny that you mentioned that. It's more to gain perspective for me. Right. Okay.

And to get a safe place for me to talk about things. Right. Even though I'm a therapist, I can't like, therapize myself. Right. You know. Right. You need someone to help you. That's like, I'm a surgeon.

I can't do surgery on myself. Right. Oh, that's a good point. That is a good point. I have actually a list of things that I wanted to talk about today because I feel like I know that there was a podcast episode where Lindsay and Will kind of got to dive into their relationship. And so we talked about last time, like, why am I still single? But like, moving forward in a relationship, I guess, what would be, what creates healthy

functional relationships? That's like the first thing I have on my list because I don't want to make the same mistakes moving forward. Yeah. But I have. Of course. And we all have been there. Right.

Like, if anybody says they haven't been in an unhealthy relationship. They're probably liar. Yeah. I might not say it to your face, but I'm thinking. No, I think there's a couple of things. The first component is recognizing your pattern, and that was really hard for me personally because I used to date unavailable men. Like, they were taken?

No, like, emotionally unavailable. Got it. I'm sorry. Good distinction. I didn't. Like, married men? Katie? No.

No. But I do have a funny story about that. Oh, good. We could talk a little later. Okay. So, emotionally unavailable men. So it was almost like I was setting myself up to not be fulfilled. Okay.

If that makes sense. Because they weren't there for me. No, I think that my last relationship was very much like that. But what if you don't, you can't identify your patterns. Like, I don't know what my pattern is. That's where therapy helps. Okay. So they can help you identify those patterns.

Okay. Because sometimes they can see, because we're in it, so we can't see it. But if we get an outside perspective, then we can see it. Yeah. I mean, always when I come out of the relationship, I feel like I, hindsight is always 2020. But I mean, just now sitting here with you, like, looking back to all my kids' dads. Like, I don't, there's no pattern. Like it's not one thing that was the same in all three.

Like they were completely different. Then it could be, not to put like oneness on you, but it takes two people in relationships. So it could be something about you and your relationship with yourself. Oh, 100%. So that's the second component. So if it's not like a pattern of people that we seek out because we're like fulfilling some kind of past trauma or past issue. Because for me, my dad was never that emotionally available.

So I would go and seek that out. Like that same pattern. That's definitely where it started. Just like dating, well, I wouldn't even call it dating, but like, because I was in middle school and high school, but like having a boyfriend was definitely like a tension that I didn't get from like my dad or something like that, maybe. But that's the other thing that I have on here that I wanted to bring up, like how, how does a dysfunctional childhood affect someone in adulthood?

Like, because Dr. Drew, you know who that is, I'm sure, we've talked about it before and he always tells me how your childhood affects your adulthood. But like for me, I'm like, that's just an excuse. People are just using that as an excuse. But how would it affect? I mean, it can affect us in a lot of ways. The thing that's cool and the reason I do what I do is because we can change and we can break out of that pattern.

But a lot of the time, the holes that we have from childhood, let's say like our mom or dad wasn't emotionally available for us. So we didn't get what we needed. We weren't nurtured in the way that we wanted. We'll go outside of ourselves and our family to try to fill those holes, for better, for worse. So honestly, sometimes anybody who gives us attention, we're like, yes, this is what I need.

Anybody who says I love you, even if we're like, you're kind of a creeper, you're kind of a loser, and I don't really like you, we're like, yes, because it like fills that voice and we'll take any version of it. Because the thing that usually happens from childhood to adulthood is like some part of our, not to get like totally psychobabbly, but like our psyche isn't built. So like the confidence of like, I am who I am, and I'm proud of that, and I'm a good person and people like me. We haven't had that from our parents, like no one's telling us, you're amazing.

We love you unconditionally. You're doing great things. Like we're not building this like solid foundation of who I am and my worth. And so if we go out with these holes and we don't feel confident, we can let anybody fill them. Does that make sense? Yes. No, I think my first son's dad, when I got pregnant in high school, I think that's a

very much what that was. Like, do I think we were compatible? Absolutely not. But I was willing, whatever he was willing to give me, I was willing to take probably for those reasons. Yeah. Because you wanted anything, right? Because you probably didn't have that attention or that affection.

So it's weird because I think, you know, 16 year old me was in love with him, right? And after I got pregnant and had the baby, it was like, I fought so hard for him to want me in the same way that I wanted him at that point, and then I had Isaac and I wanted nothing to do with him anymore. Not Isaac. I wanted nothing to do with his dad. Yeah. I was like, I want to break up.

I want to move on. I want to get the hell out of this. Like, so what happens then? Because I guess I can't figure out why I felt that way. Like why the switch from like wanting it so bad and like wanting us to be a family with our son to, okay, now he's born, now I want to go back to work and I don't want anything to do with you. I'm going to go see what else is out there.

Well, I think sometimes, and this is just hypothesized and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Sure. But I've heard from a lot of my viewers and my patients alike that when you have a child, it becomes bigger than you. And like, for instance, I had a patient for many years who was in an abusive relationship and she just couldn't get out. And then when she had her daughter, it was like, oh, it's not about me anymore.

We got to get the hell out of here because I don't want you to be hurt like my child. See, but I don't know if I felt like that because I knew that he was going to be a good dad. Yeah, he wasn't abusive. Right. And he didn't want me. So I just didn't want him anymore. Maybe you saw the world as bigger or maybe you're growing up also.

Okay. One of my best friends had this, it was like her first love. Okay. And we all remember, like, take a minute. Oh, I was in love. I was a teenager. I thought nothing else existed but this person. And I remember, it's funny because she was like a late bloomer in this.

And so we were in college and she was like, I don't know, just so devastated by the breakup. He'd broken up with her. I remember her crying. I was like, am I ever going to love like that again? And I thought about it for a minute and I was like, no. And thank God. Yeah. That shit's crazy.

Yeah. That makes us all lunatics. Right. And she was so upset with my answer. But I was like, no, because that's not like thoughtful, healthy love. That's like hormones and infatuation. It's not sustainable. You know, like think of your longest friendships.

Yeah. It's like built over time. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's like built over loyalty. Right. And trustworthiness.

All the things that like you slowly gain. Right. Those teenage love things are like, it's hormones. It's the first time probably we've ever had sex with someone. So we're super excited about that. And then we think, oh, I was supposed to, I was raised in a Christian household. So it's like, you save that for marriage. So I was like, well, I have to marry you.

This is awesome. This is awesome. I decided at the right age of 16. Right. Perfect. And so I think that like, once we get out of that and we realize things are bigger, we grow up a little more. Usually women, we tend to mature faster.

Sure. You probably were more mature. And also you were a mother and you were like, I can do better. But then I didn't do better. And then I didn't do any better. I think that I also settled for the next person that was seemed like a good idea. Because you're still wanting the love and attention, like since when you were a kid. I don't really know where, no, because I think I've come to terms and accepted how my childhood

was and I forgive my parents and I don't think about them in the same way that I did when I was younger. I do think that what you're saying makes sense for, you know, my first son's dad. But like at this point, like I think I've had my closure. But do you feel good about yourself? Like in relationships, do you know what I mean? I feel with my last relationship, I feel like it taught me it was horrible and let me not say it was horrible.

It was not healthy and it was very toxic, but it taught me that I'm capable of being in love and truly what I am capable of when I love somebody. But I feel like my middle son's dad, I still didn't have that. It was more like, you know, like the first like six months to a year when you can't keep your hands off each other and everything is so great. But then it's like the honeymoon stage wears off and you're like, wow, am I even compatible with this person? Yeah.

That's what it was. It was like, as soon as it was too late, I was already married at that time. Like we got married at 11 months. So it was like, well, now it's too late and I have to try to make it work. But I wasn't that honeymoon first year completely wore off. So I don't know, I don't think that I was still searching for what I was looking for as a child. But like, I don't, I guess I don't know, I don't have an explanation for that.

Maybe, maybe instead of like having an explanation, it's like the permission to take your time. You know, cause like if you, if you met someone, you love them, even if you want to have a child with them, that doesn't mean you have to marry them. And I think a lot of times we feel pressured to like rush into decisions and we're infatuated, right? We're super excited. We can't get our hands off of them. It can't get better than this.

It's almost like back to that like teenage of us where we're like, oh my God, you're so wonderful. But like, wonderful and exciting, like can only like not to say, it only lasts so long. Like I always joke with my husband cause we dated for five years before we got married. And that's a little extreme. Like Sean, you should have hurried the hell up, but I think that there is like a nice, I always think like by the time you get married, you should be together about two years. Because I always joke with my patients, my viewers and my friends.

I'm like, you can only hide your crazy for so long. Right. That's true. And like, I can only pretend that I don't fart and I don't burp for so long cause I'm a human too. And like, so you have to give yourself the time to like be you and then look at the other person and be like, do you get me now? You know?

Cause like friendships are like that too. Like you have to feel like they really can be there when it's not pretty. When it's not sexy. Right. When it's not fun. Yeah. I think that the pressure of society played a big factor, played a big part of that too because it was like, okay, I have a child with somebody else.

So now I need to do a make good. I need to figure this out and get married and do things the right way. And then it was like, here we are, pregnant, married, moving into a house, first time homeowners all within the same year. And so like those things are kind of things that you typically do over time. And so like it keeps things new and exciting throughout, you know, the relationship. But I kind of just was like, here we are all done. Yeah.

We've done it all. Yeah. Within the first year and a half. Yeah. So I don't want to make the same mistakes again, moving forward. So I guess I identifying my pattern because they're not, like I said, they're not really the same. Yeah.

And I mean, I don't know what the middle one, so we're talking about like your ex husband situation. I think like when you were talking about that, my first thought was like, who says it has to go in that order? I think it was just me being young because I was at this point 20 to 21. And then the pressure of like being on the show and society and the viewers and like everyone's in my ear telling me what I should and shouldn't do. And I'm trying to make good choices and then they ultimately like bite me in the ass because

I didn't give them time. Yeah. And I mean, it is hard to be under this in the spotlight, be under a microscope. Because anyone's life under a microscope is not going to look so good. So giving yourself permission to be like, I'm going to mess up. It's okay. Yeah. And defining what it is, like there's a couple of things.

So the first thing, my first bit of homework, sorry, I'm that type of therapist, but my first bit of homework would be like, I'd like you to wake up every day and say something that you love about yourself, not your children, not your lifestyle, not anything else. Just about you. Right. Like I have great hair. My eyes are really pretty. And I have beautiful skin.

Right. Those are just ones that I'm noticing right now. Oh, thanks. My hair isn't great right now. And last time you had it all done and true. So I know. Thank you. I also follow Instagram.

So I've seen it. But I saw, I think that they're like doing that every day could kind of help you find yourself now because we grow and change like one of my favorite quotes and something that I try to like remember when I'm having a hard time or I'm going through transitions is like I forget who said it, but it says I've already lost touch with a few past selves of mine. And I like to think like we shed skins of past selves so much so that if I saw my first high school boyfriend, he wouldn't even recognize me. I don't.

I just actually looked at my first high school boyfriend not that long ago. Actually on the last trip that I was with you, my friend Mark and I were like kicking through because we went to middle school and high school together and we were like going to like look at people on Instagram and stuff and I was like, yikes, like what was I thinking? Yeah, but it gives you perspective and you're so different now. Oh, so different. You don't even look at it the same way. And so just remembering that that we can shed the skin of a past self.

We can be totally new and different. I think it's hard though. I know that and I want to believe that and I want to live in that, but I think it's hard when like other people don't let me feel that way, like people that that I can't change or that things haven't gotten better or you know what I mean, basically social media and give them too much power. Right. How do I that's the other thing.

I have so many so many questions like how do I get through that and like not not give people that power? I think part of it because people are always going to say stuff like trust me, I get trolls and shit talkers too. But I think it's part of how we talk to ourselves and what we accept. Like this sounds weird. I'm really, I'm too, I have really thin skin, so I get hurt really easy, but something I've been doing, I go for walks to like, I don't know, yeah, just like be sane.

Sometimes I'll say to myself like that comment is not important. That person's not important. They don't know who I am. I don't know them in real life. Like I kind of like battle it out in my head and I'll even be like, would they say that to my face? I dare them. Like there's no way they'd say that to my face and I know that that like doesn't stop

the hurt necessarily, but it puts me in more of a like, I'm in control. And then I force my brain out of that thought pattern of like, things can't change. I can't get better. I can't make a mistake or whatever. And I go into like, no, I work hard. I'm a good person. I have friends. Like you have to like try to talk yourself into, okay, so like stop that like downward

spiral of like, yeah, once you once I go in and I read like one bad comment and then I'm looking for the next bad comment and then I'm looking for the, and I don't know why I do that. Because everybody does, this is like, I hate this fact about our brains, but our brains seek out threat because it keeps us safe, but now with social media, doesn't keep us so safe. No. But it's like a way essentially that we're programmed so that we can see threat and we

can run away or we can protect ourselves, but with social media and the fact that anybody has a voice and anybody can tear us down, then we take that threat in as like viable. Even though there's like, trust me, how many of the, are there good comments? There's way more good comments than bad comments. So like try to read those and let yourself absorb them and your head be like, thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yes.

You know. Yeah. It's just hard because sometimes I feel like the negative ones stick out so much more than the positive ones and then we get shit for that because it's like, you acknowledge all the mean ones and we're like, oh, I'm sorry. Try not acknowledging those and try only acknowledging the positive. Let's take a second to talk about something that people really struggle with credit card debt.

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Go to lendingclub.com slash combos, check your rate in minutes and borrow up to $40,000. That's lendingclub.com slash combos. Lendingclub.com slash combos, all loans made by Web Bank member FDIC equal housing lender. I just also too don't want social media and the show to affect my next relationship because I feel like that's the one thing that I haven't tried yet is having a private relationship. And I mean, I guess I kind of tried with my last son's dad, but it was more because he wanted it that way. Not because I was wanting to show him off and be proud of that relationship and nothing

could tear us apart and he didn't feel the same way. And so I guess moving forward, how do I balance the two, like my show and social media presence and a new relationship? Yeah, I think deciding what's best for you, like if you're able to and your brain separate like what the show might want, because the thing about social media and being in the public eye in general, they'll take it all if you'll give it. And so I've always held really like sacred my own personal life and like who I really am and my real friends and what I really do.

I'll show little clips and glimpses, almost think of it as like teasers. You know, like maybe you show like the back of his head, but nobody knows who he is. You don't tag him. You know what I mean? Like the picture, you kind of see him in your sense of story because they can know you're in a relationship. But until I guess until you feel until you want to share and you feel like it's safe to hear feedback, I don't want to hear feedback.

Then you don't share. You know what I mean? Because you can't control other people. We can only control ourselves. And so in order to stop the feedback, we'd have to stop sharing that portion. This is all so crazy to think about. And I think about how my last relationship, even after eight months, we didn't have any contact.

We still got back together. Like what is the likelihood of that happening? And I guess that goes back to the pattern and identifying, you know, the patterns that I have. And that doesn't, I'm afraid that that'll affect a future relationship or moving forward. And what is the pattern there? Why can't I stop going back? You know what I mean?

Yeah. And we have to kind of be a detective to like what the pattern is. Is it like something we need emotionally? Is it something we need physically? A lot of us don't like to be alone. That's not a, that's like. I'm okay with it. Okay.

I don't feel lonely. Like there are times where my kids are gone and I'm home by myself and I don't really feel like going out and it would be nice to have somebody. But like overall, I think that I'm okay with it. Okay. That's good. Because a lot of people aren't. And that's totally normal either way.

Like for any listeners out there, it's normal to be either. So then it's not that. So then. That came with time though. Okay. And that also came with feeling alone in the relationship. So I was in a relationship and, you know, he wasn't coming to the house. He would be at his house.

I'd be at my house and I wasn't having that. So it was, I almost felt like I was single in the relationship. Oh wow. Yeah. So I can't kind of came. It was not really a huge transition for me when we broke up for me to be by myself. Yeah. Actually, like you already weren't really in my life.

Right. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. I guess. And then it's like, okay, moving forward in a relationship. Now it's like I'm so used to being by myself. How could I let somebody in?

Yes. Yeah. Physically and like figuratively. Of course. Yeah. Because I don't want you in my space. Now I've, I sleep how I sleep. I sleep in the middle of the bed.

I burp and fart to like all of the things. And now you're coming in and I have to like hide that. Like I have to like. You don't necessarily know, but maybe just like my guess is I think that you just have like, you need to have the permission to take your time. What does that even mean? I think in a lot of, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, but based on like what you've told me, I think a lot of times you feel rushed in a lot of aspects of relationship.

You feel rushed to share them with the world. You feel rushed to decide even if you're dating or if you're just seeing each other, right? Because there's this nice period where you can be like, I'm going on dates with a few different people. Yeah. I don't know. Right. I can do what I want.

And so like there can be a six month period where you're just going on dates. Imagine that. You're looking at me like. I'm like, no, that's never happened. I've never done that. And I think that might be good. Just to give you, I know I'm sorry, but just we're breaking a pattern because I don't, I think the pattern of view might just be speed.

Yeah. Like I move quick. Because yes, I do move quick. I mean, obviously I've got three kids by three people in 10 years. So clearly that's a problem, but because now I feel pressure because okay, my oldest son is 10. I want more kids, but my youngest son is still in diapers. So now I want to have more kids and make sure they're all in diapers and out of diapers

pretty much at the same time. But like obviously. You're already talking fast. Do you get me? Like why is this happening? Why do I feel like this? Like I feel like my life is on. I don't want a 15 year age gap between my oldest and my youngest, but would that be the worst

thing? Yes. Why? Because I want them to be close. Who says they're not close? Well, 15 years is a long time. Well, I'll give you an example, even in my family. My grandma was 18 when her mom had an oops, a baby son.

So my grandma became kind of like his surrogate mom a little like almost like he had two moms and they're still super close to this day at 18 years apart. She'd be 80. Sorry, grandma. Not that she's listening to this. She's like, what are podcasts? Right. She'd be 84 this year.

And so that would make him what I'm not a mathematician 60 something and they talk every week. They go get breakfast every week. What? So they can be close. I think it's just like changing your perception of what a close family is or what a close sibling could be. You know what I mean?

I didn't have siblings growing up and so I grew up an only child very alone and my parents weren't great. That makes sense why you want a lot of kids and you want them to be really close. And I know that. And I know all their dads have huge families that are so close and that's what I would want from my side. But now I'm like, okay, I still want like two or three more kids. So what the hell am I going to do now?

I'm not in a relationship. I don't have, you know, the means I guess to have more children right this moment. So like, why do I feel rushed that I need to do it now? I think it's kind of part of what you've defined as family and what you've wanted. And it's like a very rigid definition. Right. Like I need to have all like, like I wish I could just pump them out right now. Which is fine.

I understand that, but I think reframing it to be like the children can still be close to one another. They're still part of the family. We're all a family. If your oldest is 18 when you have your last one, that's completely fine. They can still have a relationship. It's just a different type of relationship, you know, like consider that like with my grandma and her brother, they're, they're still siblings and they're still really close.

She was just more of a mothering figure than like a pull your hair, snap your bra. Stop it! But I love that chaos. Like I know it sounds crazy, but I love that. And I'm like, I literally don't know what I'm going to do. I told Lindsay the other day I texted her, I'm like, I'm scared of getting old. What is my life going to look like? I won't have my kids to like live for anymore.

Like what does that look like? Like why am I so crazy? You're not crazy. I think it's a little crazy. Well, okay. So it's not healthy, but it's normal. Okay. And I think you're in it now.

You have kids. You're busy. They are your life. Right. Which, lucky for them. But then like when I don't have them anymore, then I'm like, then what? That's why we have to start with the like, what are the things I love about myself? Giving yourself permission to take it slow.

Right. To know that you'll have your beautiful family and it will grow when it's supposed to grow. And it will all work out because each child is going to have a different relationship with the other child. Right. And all these different children are going to have different dynamics, no matter what. And you can't control like, oh, I want them all to be close. That doesn't mean close in age.

That just means close emotionally. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. And if they all live together, it's not like they're moving out anytime soon. I just pictured your little one in diapers. With this little curly hair. Oh my God.

I'm going. Yep. See you later. No. So you have plenty of time. And trust me, like as someone who's 35 years old, it only gets better. Like if I could, I mean, my 20s were great, but it was also just like chaos. So in your 30s, you're like, oh, you start to feel better about who you are, your body,

what you're doing. I feel confident to tell people like, no, I'm not interested in that. I'm sorry, but really not sorry. But you know, like you start to feel a little bit, or at least for me, there's definitely a transition between like 25 and 35 where I start to feel more confident. Okay. So it comes with time, but right now you're in it with your kids, but we need to build up that like, who is Kale?

What does she like to do? Oh my God. I'm such a people pleaser. It's horrible. Like I will do things that I don't want to do to make sure that everyone else is like, that's one thing I would say that most people don't know about me. Like for example, I'm actually going through it with a friend right now. She invited me to this concert and I do not listen to this person at all.

But I was like, I'm going to go because she wants to go. Those are the worst concerts, by the way. Like I don't know any lyrics and all of the music is terrible. I don't. And I told her, I was like, I guess I'm going to have to like download this album and like try to learn the words. But also I don't, you know what I mean? So long story short, it ended up getting rescheduled for four months later when I like had my

kids and like I told her I wasn't going to go because I don't have a babysitter. I'm not giving up my kids and now I'm a horrible friend and I can't keep my commitments. So it's like, I wouldn't even like this person to begin with four months ago and I was going to go and now I'm a horrible friend. What do I, I don't know how to change that either is like being a people pleaser. It's hard and I'm the same. I do the same. But one of my, I'm a quote person as you'll learn quickly, I love the quote, you can't

light yourself on fire to keep others warm. And it's like, you're not responsible for how she reacts to the fact that four months makes a big difference to you. And also that you have other commitments. You have children. Like. So does she? She should understand.

She has a husband and I don't. So her husband was going to stay with the kids and I'm not going to ask my kids dads to watch them on a school night. No. And you already had them. That was your time with them. And right. But if they split time between parents, you like really love that time.

Yeah. I mean, it's 1550. So you don't know this artist. No. I mean, I know him. I just don't care. You don't care. Right.

It's so she should like, it would be, I can understand her saying, oh, I'm disappointed, but I understand. No, it wasn't like that was like, um, how much do you want for your ticket of my thing? My friends and my husband's going to go, I said, great, well, I would want what I paid for it or close to it. And then I was even shittier friend for saying that. What? Yeah.

I swear to you, that can't be. I'm going to ask how much she wanted then. She should have just said, do you mind if I just give it to my husband? Right. There you go. Let's take a second to talk about birth control. It's something most women have to think about at some point, and it's usually a pain to make a doctor's appointment, answer a lot of personal questions, and then wait in line

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combos or entering code coffee combos at checkout. This service is not a replacement for routine evaluations by your primary care physician or gynecologist. So I need to work on people pleasing, I need to work on breaking things like I have so many things to work on, but what do I do to work on them? I think it all comes down to self-confidence, which I don't think people talk enough about. It's something that I'm always working on because I'm talking about 30s being better and everything, but it's not if we don't work on ourselves and we're all under construction,

we're all working, works in progress. But I think it comes back to the conversation that we have with ourselves each and every day because people have these passive conversations that we don't even recognize. I was running late here because I went to the wrong place and I was like, God, so stupid blonde moment, but then I'm telling myself that I'm stupid and that I can't get anything right. Which is not true. Right.

But you'll say those things without realizing it, instead then I was like, no, I'm doing my best, they were running late too, it's okay, I'm going to get there, it's more important to get there safely and not frazzled than, you know. So I think it's just being aware because I have a hard time too, obviously, I was like 40 minutes ago, I was cussing myself out. So I think just noticing the conversation that you have and then choosing to make a positive, which is hard, but if you start your day with things you love about yourself and end your day with things that you're grateful for that happened that day.

Mm-hmm. Oh, I ask my kids that every night at dinner. I'm like, so what are we? Do you do it too? I'm like, what are you grateful for? And a lot of times it's very much the same thing, but I'm like, then I try to like help them think of other things, but I always ask my kids, but I don't do it myself. You should participate.

I don't. My mom is excited because blah, blah, blah, or like, I felt good today. I got outside or, you know, I got all the things I'm like to do list on and that was amazing. Yeah. Whatever. My kids will say the same generic stuff. I'm thankful for my brother every day and I'm like, okay, let's try, you know, are you

thankful for, you know, you worked hard and you got a good grade on your tests or like whatever. And I struggle with that too and I don't want my, I guess, insecurities to like boil over onto my kids. Like I don't want them to see that and then start thinking about themselves that way. Yeah. Of course. And kudos to you because parents don't always pay attention to this.

Oh, no, I definitely, when I'm having a bad day or, you know, I feel some type of way I can feel my kids like pick up the energy or if I've cried over a relationship, like they know. Of course. They know. And children, the thing that's cool about children, I think we talked about this a little bit before on the other podcast was just like that they don't have any real judgment about things.

We can be honest and be like, mom's sad, you know, I was in a relationship and then I don't, I'm not anymore and I miss them and it's sad. And they're like, okay. Like they don't, they're like, I'm, I'm sad too. Or, you know, they're like, there's, when we get older, we have all this judgment and nasty stuff that we say to ourselves, but children are beautiful because they just like, they're all for it. They're like, okay.

Yeah. Me too. Or whatever. I'll lay with you. They're so simple. And I think we need to like, you know, relish that time and enjoy it. And be more like that. I feel like.

Yeah. But you could do like, I don't know, a lot of people do like peaks and pits of the day. Like what's the best thing and the worst thing of the day. That might get them a little more engaged, but you should definitely play along with your own thing. Can you give me an example of peaks and pits? Why would I want to talk about the worst thing that happened? Usually you start with the pit because you're like, oh, today was hard.

It's like a way to see the positive and negative. Yeah. And to let children have an opportunity to express upset and to know it's okay. So you could be like, oh, I was really disappointed. Like, for instance, you came here the other day and you were really late and it was crazy and getting here. You're like, oh my God. You could have been like, today was, the pit was the, it took me forever to get to LA.

And it was, I was really stressed and I was super tired. Yeah. And you'd be like, but the peak was that I got my teeth cleaned and I'm feeling good and that's part of me taking care of my health. So I feel good. Okay. Or I got to talk to a friend or, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And then, you know, it kind of teaches kids to be like, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to be mad. Yeah. But there's also good. It's not all bad. Right.

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he's getting older too and trying to like, I guess find him, I don't know if find himself, he's nine, so I don't know about that, but like, I think decipher what emotions come from where and like, I don't want him to internalize anything and he doesn't really know how to express it. I feel like that's like a weird age, you know? Yeah.

So, but if I work on myself too, I think that would be helpful for him. Yeah, and if you communicate like your peak and pit, or like, oh, I was having a hard time today, it's so good to have dinner with you guys or something. I know that sounds really weird, because people are like, but they're your kids and like, you should, what are you doing?

But it's like opening communication about emotions and good and bad is helpful for everybody. Well, so one huge one that's horrible for me is like, and I think with my kids too, like if I feel like I'm not, if they're not listening or I'm not being respected, like I just shut down and I'm like, okay, we're not even gonna do this. Or in a relationship, if I'm not being heard,

I just walk away. Like I won't even finish the conversation. Like how do we address that issue? And how can we solve that? I do that too. I call it puffer fishing. It's so annoying. I annoy myself by doing it and people think,

I hate when people point it out to me, because especially I do it on the show too. Like I'm aware of it. I know I do it and I wanna fix it and I don't know how. But you're a people pleaser, right? Yes. So that's why, that's why I call it puffer fishing, because it's like we're actually really squishy,

soft on the inside. But then somebody doesn't get, they like give us a poke and we're like, and we shoot our spines out. We're like, no, no, no. I can't do this. No, no, no. It's because you can't like fix that conversation.

Because we can't control other people. And that's something that I would encourage you, this really helped me to say that over and over. I can't control other people. My therapist always says, you can only clean your side of the street. But I always like remind myself, I can't control other people.

But how do I be heard then and get my point across without storming out? You can just say, I don't feel like I'm being listened to or heard. So we'll talk about this later. And then we never talk about it. You might have to be the one to bring it up. I know, I'm sorry.

This is way harder than I thought, you know? Because we can't make other people do anything. Right. I'm sorry. If we could control other people, trust me, my job would be a hell of a life. I'd be like, your mom is crazy. Your sister's a jerk.

And you should probably break up with that person. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we're done. You're 50 minutes is up. Okay, bye. That's the hardest thing. Especially with my, on the show,

I will literally just, even Dr. Drew, he'll be trying to have a casual conversation with me. And I'm like, I'm done here. And I will just leave. Is it because you feel too vulnerable or too hurt? Well, so I have a really hard time with like, when I'm mad, I cry. When I'm frustrated, I cry.

Like if I'm not being heard, I cry. Like you're not listening and I'm not getting my point across. So now I'm just gonna cry. Yeah, me too. And sometimes it's frustrating because I'm like, I'm really angry. Don't let the tears fool you.

Right, like I'm not a cry baby. No. I'm not sad. I don't wanna kill you when I don't know how to. Right. So, but how do I fix stuff like that? I think it's giving yourself, like I'm just hypothesizing here

based on my own experience. When we cry, no matter what emotion, it's because we're just full. Like our tears are usually a release of our body, like the hormones. If you look up like what we released through tears, it's really interesting. And I don't wanna totally geek out,

but it's super cool. You should all Google it. Well, no wonder, because like after I cry, sometimes I won't cry for a long time. And then once I cry, one, I feel better. And it's like, okay, how did that happen? And two, then I'm really tired. Yeah, yeah.

But it's like, all I did was let tears fall. Like I wasn't like ugly crying. No, you just like released it. That's so crazy. And it's emotionally exhausting. But they're hormones. It releases a lot of different things like hormones. And it's like the actual action of your body doing it

is just like a physical and emotional release. So you're feeling not only it's like these hormones that cause it to happen, but your body's, it's like, it's like a physical expression of emotion that we've been harboring. So it makes us tired. Yeah.

That's so crazy. So it's like finding time to cry. Or like something that I do and this is like, if I'm angry, because anger is my hardest emotion to allow myself to feel, which I think is pretty common, I'll like write angry letters to people and then tear them up. Oh, I did that.

I did this show called Marriage Bootcamp. And they had us like write like the worst thing that we could possibly think to our significant other. They said it wasn't gonna go to them, but it did. That's cause those shows are like. Of course. But we wrote it and then they put it in the shredder. So you think that it wasn't gonna go,

but really they made a copy. And. That's so terrible. Sorry. It was, it was really terrible. That's not really therapeutic. But also everything that I wrote, I didn't feel bad about it

cause it was stuff that I had said to him. So it wasn't anything new. It wasn't like horrible. I mean, no. But I think I said this before, like there have been times where like someone will comment on something or like tweet me something horrible and like, I'll type it out like my response back.

And then if I erase it, I feel better. But I can actually send it out. I mean, every now and then I do send out a response. But like I pick a good one to respond to. But the other ones I'll like type it out. And then I'm like, you know what? This isn't even worth it because I can't change their mind anyway.

So just forget it. Yeah. But sometimes it just feels good to get it out. That's why journaling is great. Or even like screaming in your car. I'm a big fan of screaming in my car. Okay. Which I mean, we're in LA.

So probably a lot of people think I'm totally nuts. That's fine. But. Can't control how they feel. Can't control them. I can only do what's best for me. Right, right, right. So you put on like an angry song or something

and just like vent it, you know? Yeah. So kind of just picking what works for you. Some people exercise as a way to get it out. But like, I don't like to run and I prefer yoga. So like, I don't know. Yoga is probably a good one. Yeah, it helps me like clear my mind.

Okay. But I know people like, you know, go running and stuff. Like I'm only running if someone chases me. So that's not gonna work. But I actually just started running. I feel like the first time I just ran last week, I did two miles, which is not really impressive. That's a lot to me.

But it was good for me because I can run a mile and then I walk the rest, you know? But I completely cut myself off from like social, I didn't bring my phone. I didn't even bring headphones to listen to music. Because I was like, let me just see what this is about. And if I can even talk myself into, yeah. So I did it and it made me feel good.

And then obviously came back to my phone with a bunch of bullshit. So I'm like, at this point, maybe I should just get a pager and then screw social media. I'll page you 143 all the time just to remind you. That you're loved. Yeah.

I mean, because I'm like, maybe I should just cut off all social media. Well, I think notifications are something you can turn off. Yeah. Because we do know, I learned this last week and it blew my mind. It takes us roughly 23 minutes to refocus after being distracted by notification.

Like sweet Jesus, how are we getting anything done, right? So like turn those notifications off. Like just phone notifications. Because it pings, you hear it, you look, you're distracted. From whatever you're doing, whether it's like spending time with your children, whether it's like getting work done. So turning those off can at least,

then you get to make the conscious choice to engage in social media. Like it can feel really powerful. I don't know, I did it. You have to let me know. But like, I don't have any notifications on. So when I click on Twitter, which is like a dumpster fire anyways, everybody knows,

I'm like, okay, here we go. Like I'm ready. Okay, here we go. And I know, like I'm going into it. You know what you're going into, yeah. And I'm already feeling good and I only have like 10 minutes or whatever. And I'm just gonna do it and then I'm out.

And the same for Instagram, the same. Just because while my community's like 99% positive, that one negative will like. Stick in your mind and just linger all day. Exactly. Like giving yourself the opportunity to choose, I think could be really helpful. Okay, I could do that.

So you don't feel like, oh, I finally cleared my head. Oh, shit. Right. All my hard work just down the drain. Yeah, cause I kind of feel like even now, like looking to think about looking at my phone and what the fuck is probably in it right now and who's texting me.

I'm like, I don't want to think about it. But if I'm disconnected completely and I don't have the option to be like, oh, my phone's going off. If I don't know, it's not gonna bother me. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So you get to choose.

Yeah. So when you're like, okay, I've been feeling good. Okay, I'm showered. Okay, I got like 20 minutes. I'm just gonna look and check things out and then get back out. I'm just gonna get the heck off of this. Okay, I think I could do that.

Yeah. So see if I like clears out your head space a little more from like all the negativity. Yeah, cause I feel like I'm, I have been trying to be more positive, but I feel like for whatever reason, every time I try to be more positive about things, it's like the negativity is trying to get in.

And I'm like, no, I'm being positive. Leave me alone. Yeah, I don't wanna hear it. I'm not a religious person at all, but I'm like, I want to commit to being like better and healthier and like the best version of myself. That I was like, my friend invited me to church. Mind you, I've been to church like one time in my whole life.

And I don't go there, but I was like, okay, like I'll come. Like I'm gonna try to like be positive and be good and try something new. And I was like, just don't get it. And I don't know, like I'm trying to do all these things and like try to be positive and it's not working. Well, it's just one little thing at a time because I bet if you look back,

like since you've been trying to do this and you compared that past self with the current self, you'd be like, oh, I guess I am doing better. Cause I think we expected to be like a radical change. We're like, oh my God, I am just like luminous. Everybody loves me. My life is amazing. And it's more like, oh, I don't like talk shit in my head

about myself and others as much. Yeah. Well, I know that's like one thing. Like I don't want to say negative things about my friends or like be annoyed. Like if something annoys me, just let it annoy me and let it go. Like I don't have to talk to, you know,

talk to anybody about it. Or like, like I was saying, how my friend and I had a falling out. Like I'm trying to be positive and then my friendship is falling apart. Or I try to be positive and something else is going crazy. Like I don't know how to find the balance. Well, something interesting happens

when we try to make positive changes in our life. People who were actually toxic and we couldn't see it tend to not, it's like, it's almost like you're putting too much salt in the water that they used to live in. And they're like, I can't live in here anymore. And so they start to like revolt. Like I've had that happen a lot in my life.

And in my like patient's lives where they'll try to like empower themselves, feel better and like old toxic shitty people will be like, how dare you? Like you're so rude. And they kind of come out. That's exactly what happened. Like it's like.

It's like they can't see you feeling better. Right. It's like how I see are falling out. My intentions were not to do for this to happen. It just happened this way. And I never, it's not like I agreed to go to the concert to intentionally screw her over. You know what I mean? It was like, I was trying to be a good friend

by even going to someone I don't listen to. And then, you know, you wanted to go. And I was like, all right, like I'll go, you know? And then it fell through or whatever. And now I'm a shitty friend. And just a lot of things were said that kind of crossed the line. And it was just kind of like, well,

if you felt this way the whole time, were we even friends? And to be truthful, they're just feeling so nasty themselves. But why? It's like. It's all about them. It actually has nothing to do with you.

Okay. I know that's hard to accept, but a lot of like misery loves company. We've heard that all the time. And we know that when we're feeling shitty, we don't want to hang out with that friend. That's like, life is great. And oh my God, I worked out this morning

and then I had a green juice and things are just so good. You're like, no. You're like, I haven't left my bed in two days. And like I'm really pissed. And I don't, you know, you're not going to reach out to that person. So if we've been in the shitty space, we're going to seek other people in shitty spaces.

Sure. But then you're trying to feel better. So that shitty friend is like, I got to bring you back down to where I am. But that's the thing, I don't even feel like it was a shitty friend. I feel like it was, I don't even know.

Was it all about them? No. Do you have to please them a lot? Do they do stuff that's nice for you too? They do stuff that was nice for me too. So that's why I'm like, but you had all these feelings that are now coming out that you,

do you know what I'm saying? So like I didn't think that you were. You were like blindsided by this. Yes. And I couldn't, I actually can't believe it, but I'm like, this is sad because I'm trying to be positive. And obviously this is someone

that I would have wanted to be in my life. But like if this is how it's going to be, you know, I want to maintain healthy relationships. I don't want to talk about people. I want to eventually be like settled down and like a healthy committed relationship. But that happened. You know what I mean?

But people can be going through it too. She could just be having a hard time. And that's fair. And relationships like even if we distance ourselves from people and we're like, oh, you know, I don't think this is working. And we just like don't have relationship with them for a while. It doesn't mean they can't come back.

Right. It doesn't mean we can't repair it. But sometimes it's just like best to just distance for a while. When is it, okay. So when is it a flaw versus like a red flag in relationships and in friendships, right? So like in dating, you know, you go out with somebody

and I feel like a flaw would be like maybe they, I don't know, they have a weird habit and you're like, wow, this is like, is it a red flag or is it a flaw? Like when is it, well, what is the difference? I don't know if you get what I'm asking. No, I think, let me answer. Like in friendships and in relationships.

Yeah. So I think it kind of is the same because I like to think of all our relationships as the same. Right. And if we all get a oops, meaning I can like be a jerk or do something that people are like, oh, you know, or say something I didn't mean

or just be a bad version of myself. We all get bad days. We all have that oops option. But when there's a pattern, that's when it becomes a red flag. So like, let's say I'm talking to a friend. I'm just having a bad day. I'm being a bad person, but that's okay.

We all have those bad moments. No one's perfect. And I'm like, oh, and it's mainly because I'm jealous or something, let's say. I say something shitty and my other friend's like, you know, it's like a new friend. She's like, I don't know if I, but then everything else is fine.

I never really do it again because that was just that one day. Like I had a really bad week and I should be a negative. Then that's oops. That's like a do like an a flaw. Maybe you're like an accident. Yeah. And like we all, no one's perfect. But if it's like repetitive,

and so I'd say it's almost like the once shame on you, twice shame on me kind of thing. Like if it keeps happening, then it's like definite red flag and something you should consider, whether it's like worth being in the relationship or not. Okay. So the friendship, like every time we argue, it's harboring feelings and crossing the lines when we argue.

So that would be like a red flag. Got it. Okay. And so if it continues to happen and every fight feels like really, like they're just really digging into you. It's not really about what happened. It's about like them. I hate like laundry lists, keeping track.

That's never a healthy thing in a relationship. In a friendship or a relationship. Any kind of relationship. Cause you can't be, I can't go to my husband, for instance, romantic relationship and be like, so for like six months, only twice have you taken the dishes out of the dish.

Like why am I keeping track? Like also I have better things to remember. Let's be honest, like where I parked my car and stuff. Cause I have trouble with that. I just said on the last podcast, cause I'm on, I'm on Accutane. And I said,

I hope my memory comes back. Cause like I can't remember anything. Yeah. Well, you have mom brain too. Yeah. Like there's a bunch of things. Yeah. Yeah.

We're doing a lot. So like there, I don't want to take up the space in my brain with keeping track of wrongs. Right. And so if you notice that every time you have a fight with a friend, they bring up this whole like treasure trove of like,

back in 2017, you tweeted this and I was really offended. You know, you're like, dude, I can't. Right. Okay. So there's certain things like that. If they use always,

never's, can't, hate, like extreme language a lot. Always, never can't hate. Yeah. Like you always do that.

You never think of me. Like these are all like kind of red flags and communication blunders that we, that ruin our relationships. I'm writing these down. Okay. I'll bring you one of my books. This isn't my book.

I have it all right now. I need that. Because, okay. So that's definitely something. I'm going to talk to her about this, my friend that I'm having issues with. Cause I just,

you know, my intentions weren't to screw her over. Of course not. But that actually goes into like the last relationship thing. Cause moving forward, I don't want to make the same mistakes. But I think that, a lot of these words where I have always been used

in all my relationships, never can't hate always. And every time I went back to my ex, he cheated. So that's a pattern, right? Yeah. How do I break a cycle like that? Like the,

the language that you use in relationships. No, like accepting it and going back. I think that's, Confidence back to, I'm like, hate to be a broken record. But you need to be at this point. But I think it's like something we all need to work on.

Like it's again that silent, like, or not silent, but like unknowing conversation we're having with ourselves. Because I'd assume it's something that you told yourself about that. Like, Won't they always come back with sorry? Of course.

He didn't mean to. This was a one time only. He's so sorry. But like, no enough about him. What about you? What do you want? Are you okay with the fact that this happened?

Does that make you feel good about your relationship? No. Do you think you can trust them again? Really? If you think about it? And not taking in anyone else's feedback. Cause people love to get feedback about that. Oh, they do love it.

They do. And you can overcome like infidelity in a relationship. Oh, I've seen it happen. Yeah. But it just takes work from both partners. So you have to consider like, are they really in it with me?

Because they're going to have to be completely. Or is it comfort? Mm-hmm. Cause I think that's what it was. Oh yeah. Cause probably whoever they screwed around with isn't interested anymore. And they're like, oh, shit.

I'm gonna go back to. And you're like, no. I'm not sloppy second. I need to be your first choice and only choice. Especially if that's the nature of your relationship. Like some people have open relationships. I'm not one of those people. But, and if that was never an agreement.

No, uh-uh. Oh, I'm not, dude. I wasn't doing that. Yeah. So. In an open relationship. No. Well, I told you last time like I was kind of

shitty to someone who loved me for someone who I loved. And I mean, I love them both differently, very differently. But it was shitty to one person for someone who wasn't really good to me. And I don't wanna do that again. Like I don't want to be in a good, healthy relationship. And then ultimately leave them or treat them like shit to go back to something the same person.

Yeah. So I'm scared. Well, I think it's, this is gonna sound weird. But you're really comfortable in unhealthy relationships. Why is that? Because it's familiar. Like it's weird. So, um, I was, when I, any time I've dated someone

that was healthy, I was like. It's boring. Yeah. You're probably really bored. And I don't know how to accept the nice things that they do. So it made me very uncomfortable. But you're like, do you cheat? Is something else happening?

You try like pretty drama. And it was just like, how do I even, so sabotage. Like, how do I even accept this or like say thank you? Like, what do you say? You say like, thanks. Yeah, like thanks for thinking to me. That was so sweet. But again, it's back to that confidence.

That's weird. You have to believe that you, you like, you, what's the word I'm looking for? You have to like believe that that's a relationship that you're worthy of. Like it's like, I have to talk myself into wanting it. That's not healthy, is it? No, it's actually okay.

I like something my therapist told me after I had that really shitty relationship in high school that like seemed to never end. Yeah. She was like, I want you to be really uncomfortable in your next relationship. I want it to be kind of difficult for you because you won't be able to move fast,

which is going to be really uncomfortable for you. Oh wow. Okay, so. Because you're going to have to warm up slowly. You're going to have to get to know them slowly. It's not going to be so exciting because there won't be any drama. You won't be like running on high all the time

being like, this is so amazing. Oh my God. You'll just be like, cool. Like, okay, is this going anywhere? Like what's happening? I mean, it is, it's going to the, to healthy town. I don't know if I could do that. Like what, like.

It might take practice. That's why I should date some people. What do you mean? Like dating people? Like dating someone casually, getting to know them means like not saying, I love you right away. Maybe not having sex right away,

but that doesn't really matter to me. You do whatever you want to do. Okay. I'm like very weird. Despite having three baby dads, like I do not give yourself permission to not, but then maybe I need to try that. Maybe.

I mean, you can do whatever you want, but it's more about emotional connectivity because it sounds like you, but what happens if there's no, like what if the emotional connectivity is there and the sexual connectivity is horrible? You'll figure that out. Then what do you do?

What if the relationship is great and the sex is horrible? What do you do? You maybe don't have that relationship. Sex is important. It's a huge component of a relationship. People don't talk about that enough. Like if you aren't,

if you don't have sexual chemistry with your partner, I mean, not to say it's like, horrible and it can never get better, but you're really going to have to work at it. And I feel like sex should be one of those things that just does work. So sex can be a deal breaker. Yeah.

I mean, obviously like learning how to please your partner can take time and it takes education on both of your parts and education about your own body and what you like and what you don't like and communicating about it. Oh, I'm very aware of that. So that's good. Okay.

Perfect. I think it was Lindsay that said she hadn't masturbated and we're like, what? Yeah, it's my willing to mean, Yeah, me too. But so I think that that component, you can work on like pleasing each other, but you should still feel sexually attracted to them

and the sex should be enjoyable. As enjoyable as like first time sex can be, which is just kind of awkward and weird. My friend, I love her to death. She told me like, when you first are with somebody, you know, give them, I want to say it was five. I could be wrong. Don't quote me on this.

Three or five times because like the first or the second time there's like nerves and like you don't know what's going to happen. It's kind of awkward. By the third time you should start to be comfortable. And if not, then it's probably not. I think that's fair. Three to five, yeah.

Okay. I think that's a good window. Okay. Because we all are a little nervous the first time or second time, you know, but that could definitely be a deal breaker. But I would just encourage you to go on a few dates. You're not going out with anybody.

You're not like dating one person, going on a few dates and you can slowly get to know them. So you're not on this like ride all the time. I know. I kind of like the ride. I know, but like you can have fun rides that are like healthy where you can take like cool trips. And you can, if you're an adrenaline junkie,

you can make that for me too. So like, I don't know, take up some sports, go skydiving. I don't care, but don't do it in your relationship. Oh, see, I did that with my ex. Like we went skydiving. That's awesome. Oh, okay.

I meant, you can do those things with them. I just thought your relationship shouldn't be the adrenaline rush. Oh, yeah, I definitely had that too. So, yeah, we feel like it's highs and lows and like all over the place. But like I can't help it. Like that's, like I said, with the relationship,

we didn't speak for eight months and I was still ready to go back when he was ready. Why? It's part of that like excitement. It's almost like a cat and mouse. Like it was like that with, you know, Joe when I had Isaac, like as soon as I knew, I had my son and he was ready to like be a family.

And we gave Isaac his last name because one day we're gonna get married. It was like, we got home and I was like, okay, I don't wanna do this anymore. I had him right where I wanted him the whole time. And then I didn't want him anymore. There's a couple of things. It's back to that confidence,

like feeling that you deserve that stability. Also, if you're growing up, your life wasn't stable. That's uncomfortable. It doesn't feel like family. It doesn't feel like life. It's weird. You're like, what? But like not to, this is gonna sound terrible.

You're like, but I really would like you to be bored. In your next relationship. Because that would actually be good. And then find excitement in other ways. Like, you know. Like go skydiving or do, okay. Take fun trips. Go with your girlfriends

to this thing that you've been wanting to do. I don't know. Take a class on something, whatever you wanna do. But you should really be bored. Because the thing that happens with those highs and lows, I'm gonna geek out for just a minute. No dude, no, that's fine. Is it when we are on these rides,

it releases dopamine and serotonin in our brain? It's like the reward center? Yeah. So our brain's like, ooh, this feels good. Right. Ooh, I like this. And then we get really low. And then it shoots back up and we release more of that.

And it's like, it starts a cycle. It's the same as like gambling. People who are like gamblers and addicted to it. Like an addiction. It's like an addiction. Because that's my last relationship was that. But the two before that weren't. Because I didn't feel that way about them.

You didn't have the highs and lows like that. No, like the one it was like I told you was like, we rushed into it and we already had a baby and did all the things, but then the less we're off. So it was like, oh. And you just weren't compatible anymore. Right. Which is like a healthy reason to split.

And then the first one was just that we were young, I would say. And it was like, okay, now I have them and I don't want them anymore. Yeah. And also I'm young and like, I don't know what I really want. But the third one was like, I was in love. Like in love.

And then it was highs and lows. So that makes sense. Why? I would keep going back. Because it's more of like an addiction. Yeah, your brain is actually like wired to like it, which I know sounds terrible. Dr. Drew told me about something,

it's kind of like therapy, but it's like this clicker. Oh, EMDR? I want to say that's what it is. Does it go like click, click, click buzzers? And it like rewires your brain or something. Yes, yes. Is that a thing? Does that work?

Should I try this? It can work. Yeah, you should, you could totally try. I have some referrals in LA if you're interested. Yeah, he did too. He told me about, I should try that. They should film that. It can help.

It's not very, it may not be exciting to watch because it's just like buzzers and I'm talking you through some tough times. Oh. But it can really help. So you think it works? Okay, so I'm going to give EMDR a try. I'm going to work on that

because I think that will be kind of cool. Yeah, it can be really helpful. It's kind of a, not new AG because that sounds crazy. It's been out for a while, but it's a new way to kind of form new pathways, which is kind of what we're trying to do for you. It's like heal from the past and form new healthy pathways so that if you're bored in a relationship,

you're like, this is okay. Yeah, like this is healthy and it's okay. You don't feel like the need to jump into that dopamine rush anymore. Even though I like it. We all do. I'm an adrenaline junkie too. That's why I do a lot of sports.

I don't want to mess up a good thing for something that is an addiction. Exactly. Yeah, because we've already been there. We know where that gets us. Yeah, I already know. So we'll try something new. Okay, well thank you so much

for being a part of the podcast. Where can people follow you again? I know we've mentioned it before, but. Yeah, I have a YouTube channel. It's just my name, Katie Morton, K-A-T-I-M-O-R-T-O-N. Awesome, thank you. Thank you. And we'll talk to you guys next week.

See ya. This podcast is brought to you by Weave Podcast Network. Check out all of our shows, including the Brain Can You podcast. I don't get it. We have coffee combos and let's talk about it.