Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - 92: Sperm Donors, Motherhood Struggles, & Postpartum

Episode Date: August 15, 2019

Lindsie reveals how she caught Will w/ his "finsta." They welcome Jen Schwartz from Motherhood Understood to discuss mothers dealing w/ depression, anxiety & mood disorders. Jen talks about her struggle w/ motherhood. Kail discusses getting a donor & having a baby.They talk about the risk factors of postpartum & what can trigger it. Kail reveals she does crystal healing. Jen shares why she likes being a mom, but hates mothering. They give their theory on mom shaming.

Hey guys, welcome to Coffee Combos, Lindsay last week was a great episode. Honestly it was. I felt like that we talked and I felt like it was two minutes but then we realized it was like an hour, ten minutes and sorry about it. No I'm not sorry. So if you guys didn't want to hear us talk that long, I'm sorry, I'm not in advance and Kale's never sorry so that's perfect. One topic that we did not get to talk about last week was something that I uncovered that

we have talked about on the podcast multiple times before and people ask me about this all the time in comments when I post if I have found Will's Finsta yet and this is a whole long thing. Like I'm kind of relieved that I found out that he had a Finsta kind of wait but you backtrack he has a Finsta yeah so it's confirmed he has one yes it is confirmed because people like I feel like people reaching out and saying have you found it yet is assuming that he even has one so because we didn't know for sure from the episodes that we've done like with Will or like because you know what we do okay like I did a individual you know like

how you did the therapy with Katie will and I did like a marriage one with Katie right and so I think somehow it got brought up about will not having social media and so on and so forth and will just like carried this lie with him for since 2017 so in case your brains foggy it's 2019 right so this is quite an extensive lie which is weird because you can literally go to someone's Instagram on the computer but you can't watch their stories from Google oh and you can't see I guess you can't see the likes either probably right like who's liking it right so he probably realized this right but you've had Instagram for so long why only in 2017 is he creating a Finsta well because we went through our

separation and I think 16 so why not just make an Instagram cuz I want me to know that he had one and he doesn't want other people to follow him like he doesn't want to be a part of like the social media okay he wants to be a creep got so I guess I'll just backtrack a little bit about how I uncovered this because will has consistently stuck to the same story that he did not have an Instagram right and does not have a Facebook maybe has a face of Facebook Facebook I don't know maybe he has a Twitter I don't know but curious minds I don't think that you would ever none of us would have ever been able to like type in the search bar and find his Finsta like none of us would have so I have asked him so many

times like will do you have an Instagram like we all know coffee combos podcast listeners and host know that you have an Instagram I believe that he didn't have one he knows too much and I thought maybe from Google like I believed will because no because he knew I would follow him if I if I want I wanted to follow us Finsta well he first off he has no post he has no followers he has I looked he has nothing on there so first off the name doesn't even make sense so I'm like but he did that on purpose to throw everybody off to throw everybody off right so I'm like okay why even lie about it you know like if you just want to creep on me and you're that obsessed with me then just tell me dude like I know

you love me like you should have just done a story on it like hey will I see you watching I see you tweeping well you know how I realized that he had one I've known this for a while but I could never confirm it how did you find out because he knew stuff that we were doing like from our stories that he wouldn't have been able to see on a Google search but his friends could have told him no because his friends are looking that hard if his friends were that obsessed with us then that would be another issue right so okay I'm like how do you know some of this stuff but I would never call it out I would just like let it go let it go but I'm like the bastard has a Finsta and I'm gonna find it but I'm not

gonna say anything so the other night I had cooked dinner cleaned up the kitchen we all know my house is still a wreck going four weeks strong one of the weeks thank you Kale sorry I had you went through his phone I did go through his phone but not before this so I had done a story about the people that we were gonna have on the podcast in Atlanta and I looked ratchet so I obviously use like the big lip filter my favorite one yeah it's like it's coffee combos podcast favorite filter yeah I wish I looked like that in real life it's like a Bratz doll but I had done this video and it's like four stories so I gone upstairs to take a shot I told him I was going upstairs to take a shower I'd cleaned everything

up downstairs and I heard my voice distorted like on that filter so you heard it you heard him playing it but he thought it was in the shower but I had gone upstairs I was going to the shower but I was still in the room so like I heard it and now that I have hardwood floors upstairs everything is echo so it echoes so I'm like yes these hardwood floors are so much better like than just for like cleanliness it's good to like spy spy yeah I hear people coming like everything everything like it's basically all detectives should have it so I'm like who was listening to that so I'm thinking to myself like maybe Jackson has somehow downloaded like Instagram on his tablet or something like because Jackson I knew Jackson was downstairs

so it was like maybe and then I thought I was crazy I was like maybe I listened to my story so many times but you're hearing it myself so I yell down to Will and I'm like Will are you on Instagram he got caught red handed he's like no no he continues this lie he's like no so Jackson comes running upstairs and he's like yes he was he was on Instagram he was looking at your picture with that weird face and I was like I know he was like I heard it with a weird face so the biggest problem for me was not the fact that Will was on Instagram and that he had lied since 2017 but this isn't funny the biggest problem was that he lied in front of Jackson like saying that he wasn't on Instagram and Jackson knew that he was on

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listening to my video well you can go to the app store and you can see that he if he's already not on Android I don't know how to do that Android and see he uses that to my to his advantage because he knows that I don't know how like how to work in Android I literally look like I'm it's literally like one years old yeah like when I'm on Android so he has like he doesn't know the password and I'm like don't sit there and act like you don't know the password like you just were on it like you were just watching my video but the fact that he deleted it all off of his phone sketchy right so sketch so then I'm like that's it I don't even care I'm telling everybody on coffee convis podcast you have a finsta

like I'm I'm calling Kale I'm telling her that you're a liar like you were watching my stories like you're obviously a stalker like he's like you better not tell everybody on the podcast or there will be repercussions and I'm like okay well you have a finsta now everyone's gonna follow you okay fine like if you want there to be repercussions fine you can come on the podcast and defend yourself cool like perfectly fine but I'm gonna tell everybody that you did this and yeah will has a finsta I'm not gonna tell you guys what it is it's possibly deleted by this point cause I told him that he's sketchy he looks at what I do like he literally goes so why lie like why can't you just look at what your

mind does and not he said he was embarrassed that he was that interested and I'm like here I love will so he why is that embarrassing he's like well obviously like I want you to have your own life and stuff but like he like wants to know what you do he wants to know like what I do you know and he's like well the only reason I even went on it today was because you told me that you had to post something so I wanted to see what it was and I'm like okay like stop being in love like he's your biggest fan yeah my biggest fan so shout out to will hey will we love you we love you and you're a liar and a finsta user so anyway that was the story the story that I wanted everybody to know cause people have been asking

for forever if we found it so yes we we have uncovered it but switching gears a little bit we actually have a guest on the podcast today super excited about this one because the Instagram is just super relatable oh yeah for sure I follow it and every time I see her post I'm like relate to it like relate to it like like every single day I almost jumped the gun and started talking about stuff that was supposed to be for this episode on the last episode well that's because we were just like word vomit you know we were just talking and talking and talking so we have motherhood understood from Instagram is that your Instagram name yes motherhood understood okay and do you have your name actually on there it says

by Jen Schwartz the medicated mommy but I try to keep it more about so you're also medicating I am medicated okay good good um I just said on the last podcast that we should all be medicated yeah it really helps welcome to coffee combos thank you I'm so excited to be here how was your drive in it was really good it was long like where are you from so I'm from New York but I live in Charlotte North Carolina okay I like can't say I'm from Charlotte I just I have to practice yeah you know who she reminds me of who she reminds me of your friend um from New York teen mom trash talk Tracy yeah like her like demeanor like oh she's so I love her you would love her she's okay I'll take it as a comment she's so great

I can't help but think of Tracy every time I I love her see her that's a good thing so you drove in yesterday so I drove in I actually moved out of my house yesterday wow same I'm moving we're all okay so we're all we're all on the same boat so we moved moved into my father-in-law's for the week until our apartment's ready because we're building a house and got in the car at about four o'clock got here at nine and just anytime you have a night alone in a hotel room no children no husband no one put the robe on right away order some cookies yeah room service that was like you and I in New York like people kept texting me being like oh what are you doing tonight like that was me last night and I was like

I'm literally I'm not going anywhere not leaving the hotel room no I'm not like you will not see my face ever my friend texting me was like do you want to go to the strip club I said fuck no I don't want to go to the strip club I want to strip myself and lay the hell down do you sleep naked um it depends where I'm at because like here I feel like in a hotel they're always knocking someone is always not you just and I'm like why don't you put on the do not disturb yeah they can't they're like they're not allowed to knock even if you ordered room service they'd have to call you and say you're not disturbed sign is on oh yeah that's good news I'm glad that you learned something you can now officially be

naked in your hotel room with the do not disturb and live your best life great so you didn't go to the strip club no I didn't go to the strip club good um always been curious about those places summer is the time to relax and enjoy the best in life and you can do it right from your own home whether you're throwing a backyard barbecue and ice cream social or a quiet night with the family you want furniture that feels uniquely you joybird empowers you to create the furniture and space that brings you joy and keeps those summer vibes flowing all year long with joybird you get one of a kind furniture crafted for your unique taste turn your ideas into reality with hundreds of styles and options sit on it sleep on it

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slash coffee go to joybird.com slash coffee and receive an exclusive offer for 25% off your first order by using the code coffee so tell us your backstory about how you became like insta famous for being a mom sure so I have an online community and platform called motherhood understood and it's for the one in five moms affected by maternal mental health issues like postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety and all the other mood disorders that are out there that I built out of having really bad postpartum depression and anxiety myself when my son was born six years ago so I was completely blindsided and I'm sure like many moms I thought when I was pregnant I was going to have what I call the Cinderella moment

where I just magically transformed into a domestic goddess and a perfect mother and a Pinterest queen and a breastfeeding champion maker of my own baby food you know taking him everywhere cooing you know just being obsessed with motherhood loving it because I thought that that's what happened I thought you're a woman I think that a nine women out of ten think that way right like you're a woman you're naturally born to be a mom and so when you do become one that's what happens right and what happened instead was I got home from the hospital had thoughts about how I could get hurt so I could go back to the hospital and not have to take care of the baby I made a huge mistake what did

I just do to my life I couldn't stop crying I had this crazy crippling anxiety and none of those things I described happen keep in mind I was nothing like any of those things before I had a baby but somehow a baby was going to turn me into that and what happened instead was I found myself in weekly therapy appointments going on anti-depressants for the first time in my life and quitting breastfeeding after five days because it just was not good for my mental health and I need to take certain medications and barely leaving the house for six months unless I was forced to and feeling completely ashamed and alone helpless and guilty because I didn't know depression and anxiety after having a baby was so common

I literally thought I was unique like I was the only one on the planet did I not just say that right but I thought it was it was just me while everybody else around me was enjoying motherhood and actually doing it really well and so I just felt like I was failing and then the guilt from that like yeah I'm not born with the mom Jean everybody else is what's wrong with me like why can't I be right and I've always been good at things I've done you know like I'm sure we're all very like high functioning type A people we succeed at what we set out to do and what we try and then when you have a baby that stuff doesn't work anymore yeah so you immediately feel like you're failing and and then you're

but like I succeed at life and now I can't hack it as the mom what's going on yeah and that's how motherhood understood was born it started out when my son was three I launched a small blog called the medicated mommy just to share my story because I felt like when I was sick I would Google and I would look for details and stories but really raw intimate details I wanted to know when I was gonna get better that these crazy feelings I had other people were having and I had a really hard time finding things right online it's much better now right I feel like people don't want to admit it right or they don't know how to even share their stories right and they're there just as a shame too so nobody's

talking about it and no one's talking to each other so I started this blog just to share my story that was my old Instagram name the medicated mommy and the messages I got would just flood in about thank you for sharing this happened to me and about two years ago I decided that I didn't want to just be my story or about me anymore I wanted to make it other people a huge platform and community for all moms and it's kind of just almost transitions organically into motherhood understood and has just really grown and taken off tremendously in the last two years so do you have just the one son so I have one son Mason he's almost six and a half years old every time we bring a mom on there always mama boys yes and all

my most of my friends we all have boys yeah really crazy I always wonder like is there like what I have messed up like we all have messed up girls in some way I have messed up a daughter yeah yeah like probably I would have oh I definitely right like there's there has to be reason we're all boy moms have you ever wondered how your bestie could afford to go on that fancy trip or your sister could buy that expensive new bag either they finally won the lottery or their credit cards are getting tapped with lending club you can consolidate your debt or pay off credit cards with one fixed monthly payment since 2007 lending club has helped millions of people regain control of their finances with affordable fixed rate

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not the only thing I have I feel like going for me as far as with the girls before I was a mom I taught middle school okay I taught middle school English and so I feel like having those kids and dealing with them and that's a really tough age and the girls are going through it and they're mean and you know they would come to school and then change their clothes from what their parents dropped them off you know all these things but no actually Jackson tried to do that this morning he thought he was going to put his black panther shirt in his bag and he I was like no that's not how it works like your ziploc bag in your backpack is an extra change of clothes extra change of clothes in case like you get dirty

or something not like an elective change and he's like oh so if this shirt gets dirty like I can change it right so yeah I'm about to yeah right but these girls were like let me take off the big t-shirt and have like you know like maybe just you know something that everything is showing and you know we're in seventh grade we're 11 years old and 12 years old so I think that could have maybe helped but I'm such a boy mom I remember thinking at first I wanted a girl and then so happy was having a boy if I ever did have another one and I'm not I would want to I think I would want just to be a boy mom so you're one and done I'm a one and done I talk a lot about how I just chose to give to give my

son a happy healthy mom instead of a sibling because it can be controversial you know people love to push their opinions on about well how could you not give him a sibling people were just arguing on a post that I made the other day on Instagram a girl had gone on there that was an only child and was posting about because I've always been conflicted you know like do I want to have another one or do I not like I feel full but is it selfish you know and I've got Kale that's got like zoo of kids and I want more and I get it you know and I see that and I see like you know them having fun on vacation and like the brothers being able to do stuff together and I'm like okay well I feel like my little one's missing

out well you can always have them bring a friend but it's just not the same so I get you know the whole it is right it's hard right because I have a sister my husband has a brother and a sister so I get you know the power of having siblings and what it is to have a sibling and of course there's no guarantee that you're going to be close with your sibling I just didn't have siblings right so it was different you right the girl was like probably well she was probably like the exact opposite of you as an only child like the girl that posted on my Instagram she was like talking about how she was an advocate you know for only kids she's like you know all my only friend children yeah my friends that are own were

only children growing up I had three best friends that were also only children and it was always the four of us all the time they all loved it they would not have any other way and I literally hated it like I think part of yours to like I don't know what their situations were growing up but I feel like you hated it more because of your situation yeah they have their they had both their parents all the way up until they were adulthood they went on vacations with friends like they did all that I didn't were always they had cousins that were there saying I didn't so I hated it you know people were like on my thing some girl I mean she was just giving her opinion you know like don't feel guilty if you only

want to have an only child I was an only child I turned out okay family of threes are great you know people went on there like attacking her like don't be encouraging her to only like have one kid like she's had more children and I love your opinions but don't be attacking some girl yeah right nobody right nobody lives your life they don't know and I know I mean I knew for myself very early on that it was going to be the one I just before he was born or after when I was going through the post from the postpartum depression and anxiety I just knew and I even I think was put in an article once that it was asking moms when did you know you were done having kids and for me it was like the week after I got home

from the hospital I just knew because I was thrown into it so quickly that if I had another child I think that mentally it just wouldn't be okay my marriage would probably suffer my relationship with my son would suffer so I think that at some point too it's like okay to be self-aware and just know that your mental health is a priority as a mom you know yes I think about that not giving him a sibling and you know that guilt that I have sometimes from not giving him a sibling but again that was a thing right feeling guilty for having an only child I didn't know that yeah and there is a lot of right you said like you know people were even telling that girl not to encourage you not to have more kids I think

it's a personal decision and you have to do its best for you and again I chose I'm giving my son a happy healthy mom right you know a mom's health and a mom's happiness is just as important right yeah absolutely I think even after my third like you said a week a week after you knew you were done I think I was asking Chris for another one a week after Lux was born right and you know yourself you're like another one like when can we start trying and you're super self-aware you know you want another one and that's wonderful right that's great and I know I don't want anymore right and I think it's I think it's amazing you do you I do me yeah I don't I don't support each other it's the way it's the way it should

be people are wired so different yeah I feel like the more chaotic it is the better kill functions okay and like if there's not chaos like I would have another one by myself if I went if I don't have a father figure whatever okay I would probably go to the bank and have one by myself and see that's very strong to me but then also to some people they're like I could never I would never want to I would never even entertain that you know what I mean like yeah that's me I'm like no yeah I like yeah I'm with you I like my I like my life the way it is I like my routine of my life we call ourselves a lot of times the short team of three like we even joke on a superficial level you we fit perfectly in

an airplane row you know traveling and we do travel a decent amount but yeah I think that you have to know you have to know yourself I don't want to be back in the therapy office and going through the medication right up again and my son is old enough now to know right to know that mommy's sick or mommy can't get out of bed you know I used to worry about that when he was an infant but the fact is when he was an infant and I was going through that he didn't know and he was being loved and taken care of by so I had my husband our you know our parents were super helpful our siblings you know pitched in so it's different okay guys so let me tell you about this great new bra I found from third love third love

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almost maybe it could ruin what they already had right and it's not a guarantee that it will happen again right but she had a bad so bad right and you have it one time you are at a 50% chance of higher risk of having it again and I know people who didn't have it with the first and had it with the second and had it with the first two and didn't have it with the third but that risk that risk does go once you have a history of some type of depression anxiety whether it's you've never had children or now you've had children and then you've had it your risk goes up well I feel like it would be even hard for or harder for the moms who have had like had a first kid and didn't have it and then had a second

kid and had it because they already have one kid yeah and it was like all normal and the second one you know wasn't big they're going through this thing with them that would be hard because it would almost be like is it something with the kid like am I not as connected am I not right that's what I had talked to Lindsay about earlier I was saying how when I was pregnant with my second I had this overwhelming fear that I couldn't love Lincoln I didn't know what I was having but I didn't think I could love this baby I hadn't really no connection and I was like I really think Javi should just raise this baby by himself and you know me and me and Isaac would go off and do our own thing and I'll raise him

by himself but I didn't even want them to like I had a custody agreement with my oldest son's dad and I didn't even want my husband at the time to drive him because I was afraid that he would get into an accident and I would never see him again and then I have this baby that I'm not connected with and like I mean I quickly learned that once I delivered you know love multiplies it doesn't divide but I have this like overwhelming fear I guess of just not being connected. Right and it's so common and anxiety. Exactly and anxiety is common in pregnancy also and I have so many friends that worried

that when their second baby was coming they were not going to feel the same or they didn't feel the same at first and right if you don't have it if you don't have something the first time and you have it the second time I think it's right because you don't know what's going on and a lot of times whether it's your first or your second or your third and it's the first time you're experiencing a mood disorder or any type of those feelings. Would that be a mood disorder you think? No I think that's just common anxiety and like normal like where you know like mom where you're like I'm not going to be connected things like that but then if you don't know

that it's a thing you just feel like you're failing. Yeah oh my gosh I felt more like I would cry and cry and cry about it. So you don't have to have an actual diagnosis to you know like you don't have to sit in a doctor's office and they say you have during pregnancy anxiety right you feel how you feel I think it's so common no matter what. Oh I got attacked for that now they think that he's the evil step child that I never loved what I like. I personally get messages on my Instagram and I'm not even Kale and it'll be like why

doesn't Kale love Lincoln? They think that I don't and it's weird because Lincoln and I have a different bond than I have with Isaac and Lux because I ended up breastfeeding Lincoln for over a year. So I have a completely different bond with him and they think that I don't love him because of how I felt during my pregnancy and it's really sad. And really you should be talking about that stuff. That stuff is so normal and common and we need to normalize it. They're like where's Lincoln?

You don't care about him. Isaac and Lux are your favorites. And that's such a BS because I feel like Kale talks about how funny Lincoln is all the time. All the time. Like she's constantly talking about him. I'm like Kale do you have a favorite child? And she's like no I don't like I don't have a favorite child at all.

Lincoln just we have a different like because I literally didn't leave him for a year like everything I did was with Lincoln so it's just a different bond and they swear I don't love him. Because I said because I've said before that I haven't been connected to the pregnancy with him. Right which isn't okay because it's so common and so normal to not feel connected so you should be allowed to say that and then. Not have backlash for it.

Well and also say it so all the other moms out there going through the same thing are like wow it's not just me. Well I had someone from my show I won't say who it is but she messaged me and when she was pregnant with her second and said the exact same thing and then we both had a third and I didn't I just knew already the third time around that I never had to worry about that connection thing like I never worried because you worried about second time right you've been through it already and I was like well love multiplies it doesn't divide so here we are.

I've never understood this specific thing about Lincoln because I know from like a different perspective you know everyone some well people who know me swear Lincoln's my favorite. I know but I'm like I don't have a favorite. It depends on your behavior that day. No. It just depends on their their behavior that day right at the time right right right exactly the favorite who's the favorite at the moment but Lincoln so funny like he's just like a funny he's all boy he's but he's so funny he's so funny but I think he's wild he seems

like very connected to you though you know what I mean like he's definitely his like if he had to choose between me and hobby he's choosing hobby. Why do you say that because he loves his dad like my other boys love their dads but Lincoln is his like you would really think that hobby made Lincoln by himself himself and looks wise. Oh yeah. I don't think any of my kids look like me but yeah I mean Lincoln you know what when you're like 12 you can make the decision which parent you want to live with yeah Lincoln's

going to pick his dad but I'm like but I breastfed you for a year right like I came out of this family I already told my side I birthed you I carry you around for nine months I birthed you I breastfed you for a year and your dad sat there in basketball shorts and you get to go live with your dad like what that's fine I'll support him whatever whatever that's fine I didn't feel very connected to my son for six months it really was about six months and oh wow yeah you know I'm in love with him right and I know I know I'm an amazing mother you know and we're so connected we do joke that he's literally 95% my DNA and my mini me and he'll do something and my husband will look at me and like shake his head but

even so but I wasn't connected to him for six months it is no bearing on how you feel now yeah or in general you know it's not your fault you felt that way you know what I mean you know your brain is hacked your hormones are crazy there's all these things going on. So are you guys struggling to make sure that five more minutes doesn't end up being five more hours with your kids on their devices use Circle to set limits and end screen time debate with your kids once and for all Circle is the easiest way to manage your family's online time across all their connected devices inside and outside your home. With Circle Home Plus and the Circle app parents can filter what content is allowed set limits

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That's $30 off when you visit meetcircle.com slash coffee and enter coffee at checkout. This is a limited time podcast exclusive offer that's meetcircle.com slash coffee and enter coffee to save $30. It's weird because I talked about it two episodes ago on the podcast. I did an anxiety episode with our resident therapist. She comes on the podcast pretty often whenever we need to talk about serious things. But she's great and I weirdly never felt anxious while I was pregnant. Actually I was probably the most calm when I was carrying him.

And then once I had him I feel like the anxiety really set in. Anxiety about what? Like were there specific things that you were feeling anxiety about? Yeah, like I was afraid that he would get like a germ or something that could kill him or I wanted people to wash their hands several times before they held him or like he was only at our house and I only took him out I think one time in months because he was born in the winter time. I made people come to our house take their shoes off before they came in.

It was weird and I was so afraid that something would happen to him that I didn't want anybody touching him. And I was like I know that I can do it better than all these other people. And it wasn't like a cocky or like confident thing. No, you're just worried. It was like a fight or flight, whatever you call it, you know, like it was so common. And I think when it verges on that then postpartum anxiety or where you decide you're going to go see a therapist or a doctor or take medication, it's just so intense, it becomes so intense.

It's all engrossing like I feel like it consumes your life and you it becomes your sense of normalcy. So you think it's what you're doing is normal. Well, yeah. And I was about to say too, like I feel so I feel for the ones who don't go get help because they think it's like normal to some degree or they don't really know maybe it'll go away or maybe you know what I mean, right? You sit in this thinking it's your new normal and this is just new mom overwhelm this is

how it's supposed to be. And the thing is, is that anxiety, depression, all these things, they're so treatable by whether it's medication, medication and therapy, they're so treatable, they do get better. And you don't put so many moms sit in the suffering because they don't know. Well, also, I think it your support system plays a huge role. You know, I think a lot of partners don't know how to deal with it, or they think that you're just bullshitting or they think that, oh, like I said, go away, right, right. So I was lucky.

So when I had those thoughts about going back to the hospital and wanting to get hurt, my mom was staying with us and she's a therapist by second career, but she's a therapist. And so I promised myself that that night, so as the day after I got home from the hospital, I promised myself that night I would say something to her. I didn't know what was going on with me, but there was a red, right up as a red flag, something was off. And I was about to say something to her and she cornered me and she said, Jen, what's going on?

She already knew. So when something was off, apparently my husband had said something to her too, but she'll tell you to this day that she literally witnessed the light go out behind my eyes. She saw. I have the chills. Right? She saw the change. I know.

Same. She saw the change, you know, that this wasn't my daughter standing here. This was like a ghost of herself. And that for me started this path of how are we going to, what are we going to do to figure out what's going on and get better? And what was wrong with all of that was that I didn't, we didn't know what was happening. So we didn't know the right place to go or where to start. So we went to the OB.

The OB wouldn't diagnose me with anything because it was under two weeks and under two weeks, baby blues, maybe baby blues goes away. Now what is the difference between baby blues and postpartum? So I think it's about 80 something percent of women will have the baby blues and it's just that overwhelm, exhaustion, you cry, you know, your hormones are out of whack, but by about two weeks, it kind of subsides and you find your groove a little bit with the anxiety and depression and the mood disorders. It doesn't.

And also for me, it was the intensity of everything. It was the combination of the intensity of the depression and the anxiety were so high and also just not finding joy in anything, anything that I used to find joy in. I mean, I didn't even want to go shopping, you know, I didn't want to watch TV. I didn't want to do any of this or go to yoga or any of the things that brought me joy before. So that was kind of how we could tell that it was more serious, but the OB just prescribed me with clonopin, which is a very strong anti-anxiety medicine, sent me home and was basically like,

but then how do you even function as a mom on that? Well, right. And I was, and again, I was lucky. We had a baby nurse. So at night there was somebody who came and I got to sleep because I was already supplementing with formula, you know, it would be a few days later that I would just give up breast feeding totally, but the anxiety was so bad, the clonopin stopped working after five days. And then it was like, well, now what?

So I went to my regular doctor, he prescribed a different one. It didn't work. I went to, I, you know, we found a therapist. I went to a therapist and I got to her office and I sit on the couch and she just wants to talk about what I could do to be a good mom, which was not helpful because I didn't even want to be a mom. And I also felt like a horrible mom for feeling that. And then I just happened to Google postpartum depression and therapy, Charlotte, North Carolina,

and a woman popped up, I called her, I left a message. I think it was a Sunday. She saw me the next day and that was just, you know, a relief because she diagnosed me. She gave me a list of risk factors. Who knew that there were risk factors for postpartum depression and anxiety? Now what are those? Do you remember what they were? I mean, there are so many and what's difficult about it is they're different for everyone,

but moving right before your baby could be a risk factor. And I moved into a new house three months before me, so having tons of family and tons of people around right before the baby comes could be a risk factor. And I'm Jewish and my due date was the first thing to pass over. And no joke, everybody came to Charlotte for the holiday and I went into labor at the dinner table in front of 30 of my closest Jewish family members. So all of these things that you don't think about, also I'm a type A high functioning organized, you know, teacher, you know, and I can't have a baby now and like make a to-do

list or organize a closet, right? Totally. And all these things. So this therapist diagnosed me and between her and my regular doctor got me and quickly to a psychiatrist. We found the right combination of medicine, but the first one didn't work. So it was another four weeks. You know, so I think what happens is we're not preparing and educating women in pregnancy

because how great would it be as you had your baby, something was off. You knew exactly who to call and where to go and then you got the help quicker and you got better faster. Right. Right. I really think if I got that help quicker, I would have missed so many less milestones right in that first year. And that's kind of why I'm so glad we're talking about this because that's what needs to change.

I don't remember ever talking like, I don't know why Dr. Ever telling me what that was. And they might have given me a pamphlet on it or something like real simple, but I don't ever remember going over the possibilities of postpartum prior to giving birth. Right. And whether they, they mentioned even specifically postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, like I know what your psychosis, did anybody even tell you that you're going to need to prioritize your mental health over your babies? No, they talk, I remember, well, for one, I remember the six week appointment, they ask

you, are you feeling like you're going to hurt yourself? I was going to say it. Yeah. But postpartum is going to come before that. It can't. Right. And then the other thing was we couldn't be released from the hospital. I don't know how it is here, but in Delaware, you can be released from the hospital without

watching probably two hours worth of car seat installation videos and nothing on postpartum. Right. Do you have a car seat? Do you know how to use it? Did you go to the bathroom? And do you feel, right? Do you feel like you're going home to a safe environment? Yes.

Do you feel like- And no co-sleeping. And no co-sleeping for us. Right. Nothing about- Postpartum. You might not like motherhood at first. You're going to be very tired.

You're going to be tired. You might have anxiety, depression. Do you have health? Right. Nobody ever mentioned mom, take care of her mental health first, which in turn is the best way to take care of her baby. I remember leaving the hospital with Isaac and they filmed me and I was in the backseat riding with Isaac and Janet was driving and she's like, are you ready to go home?

And I was like, no. Oh, wow. Because I was so tired. Yeah. So nobody stayed in the hospital with me and then as soon as I got home, nobody stayed at the house with me. Everyone went back to work. I had nobody.

Right. You're forgotten. It's almost like you're forgotten. Oh, you have the baby now, so you're good. Right. No one mothers the mother. We need some mother the mother. And that just doesn't really happen in our culture.

Like I need to recoup on the 20 hours of labor and delivery that I just went through. Exactly. Yeah. Right. And if like I had a C-section, I mean that was- Oh, wow. Major surgery. Yeah.

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every waking moment with my baby, I couldn't take enough pictures, you know like I couldn't, I just felt like I was trying to be like five people, you know what I mean? Like I was trying so hard, like I didn't want anybody else doing anything, like my husband had never held a baby before so I was like oh god you're clueless, like this is, yeah it's my baby, and I did say that and I feel bad for that, you know, and I'll live with that for the rest of my life, you know, that I made my husband feel like he didn't take him to like make it, you know, I mean, jeez, but yeah I was like this is my baby, everything was like, I was very possessive, you know, like my, my, my, my, yeah well I think too,

you know and it's normal also to love every minute right, just as much many of us hate being pregnant or have hate motherhood at first or whatever, there's the exact same amount of people who love being pregnant, love every minute and the anxiety can also just be a heightened version of that, right, you are so in it and you are so happy in this new position and you are in so in love that now this anxiety right of, but this is mine, I don't want anything to happen to this, right, I don't want anything to happen to my baby, the germs, my husband, you know, all of that. Such a psycho that I, I would fix like six bottles, once I had stopped breastfeeding,

fixed six bottles, put them in the refrigerator, use like the bottle warmer or whatever, but once he emptied them out, I would wash them in the sink with scalding hot water and then I would boil them to make sure that there was no germs on them. Yeah, I think that's the gear, like it's heightened of all those other positive, all those other positive feelings, I really have this theory that from like a lot of us, especially those like type A high functioning women, before we have babies, I really think that most of us probably have some form of generalized anxiety disorder, you know, our whole lives, we just cope, right, we cope with whether we're shopping or we're studying or, right,

I don't like that would drive me nuts, right, you thrive in the chaos, like just give me the fricking bottle, I'm going to wash it, we're going to give it to the baby, like chill out. Right. Not that I'm judging you, but I'm like, you're taking too long, just wash it and hand it to me. We should go on mom's swap. No, because you probably never talk to me again after I handle Jackson.

No, Jackson would probably be like, I love Kale so much. He'd be like, okay, this is not how you do it. He probably would tell you like, that's not my mom does it. My son would be the same way, because we're very routine, because I'm very routine, but I think with that, like having some type of generalized anxiety started, but we've compensated it for our whole lives in whatever ways. And then we have a baby and two things happen, one, we can't, again, like, I can't make a to-do list.

I can't go kick ass to the presentation or organize my closet and, right, raise the baby, or like what you did, you take it the other way, right, and you are overcleaning the bottles. Like, were you tired? Using your hands and legs and making people take off their shoes, but you're, you're so going, going, going. I think that was the thing. I think I was so going, going, going that I think I didn't even realize I was tired.

Right. And then it's like, you hit a point of like a crash. Like it's almost like speed, you know, I definitely got better with my second and third, but my first one, I was so fucking tired. I remember not leaving the room for like six weeks. And you, so maybe you were like depressed. Oh, I definitely was because Joe's dad had to come and be like, you need to leave this room.

I would sleep on the floor in his room. Yeah. But I also just like, I don't know, it was weird. It's weird because I feel like I give Kale anxiety with my organization. Um, yeah. Yeah. And I feel like Kale's like, you're giving me anxiety because you have a planner. I have a planner too, but like if I, but Kale's planner, I feel like you're a little

bit more flex, you're a little bit more flexible. It might be a planner and it might happen or it might not, but it's like supposed to happen, but it could very well not happen. The thing is, if it's in the planner, it's not happening or if it's not on the planner, it's definitely not happening. Right. So, I don't know. You guys are a good balance then.

You balance each other. Yeah. We're like, what is it called? Like yennin, yennin, yennin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what, that's what we are.

Um, we're actually going to the crystal store later. Yeah, that's my place, Kale said that we're going to get me a crystal. I'm going to get her a crystal for what, what do you think? I think she should just have like clear courts because I feel like it's the master of all, She just means that one to start. So wait, clear courts was my first one. Do you, are you into any of this stuff? I like all of them.

Are you religious, are you? I'm not religious, but maybe a little more spiritual. I mean, Jewish. So have you seen a psychic before? Yes, and astrologer, I love all this stuff. Okay, okay, see? So I have a fabulous astrologer that I do readings with. So that would be cool.

Kale's probably gonna hit you up, she's gonna be like, she's literally the most amazing person I'll give you her info. So like, teach me about crystals and what I'm gonna do. No, I'm gonna take you there and I'm hoping that the owner is there and I'm gonna have her talk to you about them

because I don't think that you would be convinced if it was me. Is this like a hypnosis? Like, is something like- It's, they read you. So I've had a crystal reading before. Were they kind of- You have too?

No, look at it though. They read you and they read your energy, right? And then they kind of determine what crystal. Like this is a chakra bracelet. This is a seven-chakras. Right, what crystal is best for you or for whatever, I guess, your energy. Like, I guess that when I have my reading,

she talked a lot about how I break commitments to myself. I don't show up to myself. You know, like I could drive to the gym and sit in the parking lot and then like- I just had this conversation yesterday. Drive away. You know, and keeping promises to other people and showing up for things in work or whatever,

but then not with myself. So she recommended, and they didn't buy it at the time because it was just really expensive, but she recommended a certain crystal. Like for that. To help that. Like I'm most in team with my solar plexus. So like there's certain crystals for that.

And that's like right here, your solar plexus. It's like right here. Right, it's one of your chakras. So Kale is gonna try to make me talk to the owner because she thinks I won't believe you. What makes you think that I won't believe you? I don't think you believe anything I say. What?

I think that you ever take me anything I do seriously. I do. I just feel like you're so nonchalant about everything. Like, you know, kind of like you go into jail. You're like, oh. Whatever, just another example. Like I don't know how I can really take that seriously. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, I might call one day

and if it goes to voicemail, I know I need to call the assistant to find out if Kale is locked up. She just overslept or she's in jail. No, she's not overslept. She's locked up. I'm up at 6.30, but I'm definitely in jail. Yeah.

So I'm excited about this. So do you have crystals like at your house? I don't have any, but I do love all of this stuff. Like I really do love all the woo-woo. I will really try anything once. Yeah, I do. I think there's something, I think there's probably a lot of hacks out there.

This is just like a- Oh, definitely. I think that there's something, I do think that there's something to this stuff for sure. This is just a temporary home for them because I'm moving. Okay. So they're just like on the counter.

Are you gonna get like a case for them? Oh, no, like I'm gonna have like a whole- You know how I had like my Beanie Baby collection with like the protective cases, Kale's got all her crystals and protective cases. There's lots of them. Wow. They're pretty too.

I mean, they're pretty too. So wait, so what if we've been talking about me going through this change and being back on my ADD meds. So what if I'm gonna go through this change where maybe Kale comes back to Atlanta and sees me driving and I'm like, got crystals like on my dashboard. I have one hanging from my rear view mirror. Is that a thing?

Yes, I have- You know how like people put Beanie Babies like in the back of the car? Don't people, don't people do crystal therapy or are they like- Yes, the crystal healing. They put the crystal as well. Leah did it while we were in Hawaii. She did?

Yeah, she literally let it down. Yeah, she's into it. All of our kids have crystals. Now they've never done. I mean, I don't think it's a- I would not imagine anything into it. Addy would not, she was dead set on getting these crystals from the store in Hawaii.

So we took her and her, Lincoln and Isaac all have crystals and Leah went to this crystal healing thing. It was like, she laid down on the table. Did she have it? Yeah, and she said like two of her chakras were blocked. But she was like- What is that? We just, I can't explain it

without just taking you to go do it. I've had an, I've seen an energy healer also. Really? Yeah, and that was really cool. I think, I mean, it's not a replacement for- Real therapy. Our medication. But I do think that if you are into these things

and they help, like it's great. You know, just another outlet of, we need, at least me, I need all the help I can get. You know, like I'll try it all, if it helps, great. So do you still struggle with, I mean, can you struggle with postpartum for like years? Or like- So they say, I want to say after,

I want to say 14 months to even two years now, they keep, you know, they keep pushing it back and back because it can happen later. You know, a mom can get postpartum depression at 12 months, right? Really? Or 10 months, or I was early. Usually it's kind of, it peaks the three to five months.

Oh wow. It's different for everyone, which makes it so hard to, you know, diagnose. Or it's not one test, it's all. Be postpartum or regular depression? So it's postpartum, and I might get this wrong, but it is postpartum from, I want to say, birth through at least 14 months.

Eventually, right, it becomes just every day or regular depression. I mean, I still take my antidepressants, I've been on them for now six years. I don't take the anxiety meds anymore once in the blue moon because the antidepressants have that component. Most of the time they give you the anti-anxiety meds because you have to wait for the antidepressants to kick in.

But yeah, I definitely have days, I wouldn't say I'm depressed, but I definitely have days where I get down and I get, you know, in funks or lulls. I don't typically run anxious, you know, where my heart's racing or, you know, I did this week with moving and, you know, lots of travel and things like that.

I run definitely more depressed, but then I found out that anxiety also can manifest in like working too much or doing all these things. And I'm like, oh, maybe I am anxious too. So I have days, it's not, I can function, and I find joy in the things I used to find joy in, but I have gone down on my meds to really only need to go back up on them.

So it's something for me that I think I will be a medicated mommy for life and I would wear a post, you know, in my forehead that said it, you know, I'm not ashamed. I'm ashamed of it. I'm doing what's best for my health. I think probably more moms and women than we even know are on medication.

We just don't talk about it. And so, yeah, I'm fine, like I'm better, but yeah, I mean, and it's motherhood. So I feel like it's always an ongoing battle. I feel like we have such a large like mom audience, just obviously because we're moms and that's probably why people, I won't say everybody's following us for that reason,

but I think that so many people do deal with these kinds of things and that it's hard. They found an outlet with us like opening up about this kind of stuff that they can come and feel like it's a safe place because, you know, we need to be honest about it and what's going on. And I was talking about it on the last episode that I feel so much better being honest

about having anxiety and, you know, feeling certain types of ways and it's okay to be okay one day and like not okay another day. And I just feel so much more open to be able to share because I feel like we're in a safe place. I feel like we've created a safe community. And of course we're gonna have people that, you know, like say mean things, that's just the reality.

There will always be those people. They're just, it just is the way it is. Do you deal with a lot of, I feel like you posted something one day and I saw like a bunch of people and I forget what it was. It was like, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. So one of the things I'm really proud about my community is we have very little mom shaming.

It's very, you know, it's minimal. There's over 35,000 women and it's very supportive. And I think because right, the same way it's a safe space and people come to hear this uglier, messier, less popular side of motherhood that we're all talking about because we need to and people just want connection and community and to know they're not alone.

It's, so it's World Breastfeeding Week and World Breastfeeding Month and you know, motherhood understood, we're just pro, we're pro mom, right? And pro baby's fed. Right, exactly. Whether you breastfeed or supplement or only pump or don't even try because you don't want to

and just do formula, we support it all. And so I had posted a meme from another mom, I know Kate who runs a brand called Bumble Baby and she, it said breast milk is great but there's no substitute for a mom's mental health. Right, and most comments were very much, thank you for posting this, I needed to see this, I made myself crazy for six months,

you know, going through all these things and there were probably two or three people but breastfeeding is always such a polarizing issue. It is. There were two or three people who are still posting, I think I posted this meme about a week ago who are still posting about how there's no substitute for breast milk, how it helps with mental health,

how a mom should try no matter what, how it's so sad that these moms didn't have the support that they needed to be able to breastfeed. Okay, and that's the reality of it. Right, exactly, and so yes, there are studies that it can help with mental health but for a lot of moms, they don't sleep and then their mental health gets worse.

And so it's really, whatever this article says, this article says the opposite or it's all over the place so that's probably the one that you're thinking about. So every now and then you get a couple of people who either misunderstand the point of the post or chime in without having kind of the education to be talking about what they're talking about. And I don't know, I honestly don't usually respond

to those people, I feel like the community kind of does it for you and takes care of it. But for the most part, it's a very supportive, very open community and I think between the Instagram quotes and then we also are a story sharing platform, we share a story written by a real mom who has struggled with a maternal mental health issue in some way. We share one every week on our website

and on Instagram in a shortened version. I think it just, it really does create this safe community and people come to you, like they come to you guys because you're talking about the real things. You're not pretending that this is all a mean thing and perfect, right, it's hard. It's hard and these expectations that are placed on us and the lack of support we're given makes it harder

and we think that we're supposed to do all the things, do them well, love them all the time and like you said, it's okay to not be okay. It's okay, I say a lot, I love being a mom, I don't like mothering, you know. Yeah, oh wow. Wow, that's interesting. Right, and I feel like it's okay to not be okay

as become a mantra for everything. Whether it's mental health or motherhood or anything in life because we have to show it, we have to be able to show those sides to normalize it so people don't suffer. Well, I feel like our goal has always been to just like be honest, to create a safe space but also I feel like we go through ebbs and flows,

like we'll feel super safe and then we'll do something and then we'll get backlash on it and then it causes us to like pull back a little bit. But with that being said, I just feel like I feel like we just have to be honest because sometimes I'll catch myself being guarded because I've said something in like a previous episode and people have attacked it and it's like,

well, like where is your basis coming from? You know, to attack me on that because it's just generally like how I felt. Right, and you should be allowed to address it and also too, you guys are fairly public figures so I think the backlash is more prevalent but even so, you should say it anyway because it's for all that backlash,

it's helping so many more people than the people that are coming in. And I think we've learned that like over time that more people are being helped by what we're saying. Our goal is never to hurt somebody with what we're saying but it's just like our real life and what's going on. And I think that it was a huge realization for me. It was last week that we were at the beach.

It was our last little hurrah before school starts back. We did a three and a half day vacation. And I feel like there are so many people, I don't know if it was just like a concentrated area of people who listen to the podcast or if we've just grown because literally every person that acknowledged me was listeners of the podcast. And it was like, they had questions like,

oh, how's your dog or whatever. And I guess you don't realize whenever you're doing this how far the reach is. And so I never want to say something that would be harmful to somebody but I also don't want to hold back on what the truth is. You're always, when you talk about controversial things or you're honest or vulnerable,

there are always going to be people that you offend. It's just the nature of it. So it's almost like you have to just kind of put blinders on and not even worry about it. But I really think and it was kind of the core belief I found in motherhood understood on is that really what women and moms want at the end of the day is connection and community

and to feel understood. And that's why they're coming to your podcast, right? That's why they're coming to you and talking to you about your podcast because that's what you're doing for them. And I'm sure you've even found it just with each other, right? Like with connecting with each other

and being able to talk about these things. And I mean, so many of my friends that I have now, I've made it over Instagram. And some of us have not even met in person yet. And now a lot of us have and we work together and we partner together. But I tell them things that I might not tell someone who's known me for 20 years.

And it's that amazing connection that we can all talk about this stuff. That is really what the moms that are listening to your podcast want. Well, and I think too that like Kail and I are from two different walks of life. Like my life wasn't a gravy train by any means. It might appear that way, but it definitely wasn't.

Definitely dealt with some issues with having parents that divorce whenever I was six years old. I feel like that's a super important time in your life. Getting ready to go to kindergarten have parents that are going through a very volatile divorce. So obviously, I've been through stuff, but not to the same level of what she's been through. And the way she parents is totally different

than the way I parent, but we both respect each other. And also it's weird, we'll like agree on stuff, but the way she might handle something would be different than the way I handle something. But we come from a place of like no judgment. And I don't know if it's because we're friends or- No, because I don't know if that's why I think that's a really good point too.

Like you get online and you see all these people like shoving the way that they parent down your throat. That's very true. And I don't understand it because I literally, I've breastfed a child for an entire year. I have not breastfed for an entire year. I've disciplined and I know people spank

and don't spank and all these things. Like I don't judge anyone by the, unless you're just not being a good parent at all. Like you're just not there. Unless you're negligent. Right, like I don't, so I guess I don't understand the sense of like, need to tell people how, I don't get it.

Like I don't get the judgment thing because I just don't judge people for the night. Like I don't know what this mom is dealing with. So how could I judge her or, right, you do you, you do you, right, you can't. I mean, I remember sitting, I was sitting in Temple once and for, it was a concert and there was a family there

and the son was wearing like gym shorts. And for in my head for a minute, I found myself getting like a little judgy. Like how could he be wearing like gym shorts and a hoodie to Temple. And then I'm like, I'm like, you know what, Jen? I'm like, you need to check those judgments because we don't know, maybe he has sensory issues

and he can't wear pants. Maybe she fought with him about 15 things today. She just didn't want to fight with him about the outfit and I just kind of let it go. And maybe you still clothe something on his, you know what I mean. Right on the way and that was in the car. Like, you know, right?

Like, cause we're all girls, right? We all, we're all guilty of it. But I, it's crazy to me, just like what you said, that the fact that we're moms and we've gone through this same thing isn't enough to just make everybody kind of love each other and be a sisterhood. No, I literally don't care how you're feeding your baby.

But like, why can't we just be a sisterhood and like not have, because I would say, I don't know percentages, but I would say like 90% of the people that shame me on social media for whatever reason, it'll be, you'll click on their profile and it's like a mom. Yeah. It's like, okay, Karen, like.

I don't know what it is. I feel like women, I feel like we're taught that we have to compete with each other or there's not enough space for differences. I don't really know. I just, versus the idea that like, we're all here to lift each other up and support each other and high tides,

lift all boats and all of that stuff. So we're our only biggest critic, especially in parenthood. Oh, of course. Especially as a mom, like the mom gill, all of that. So I don't need another mom. Like I literally have blinders on though. And I've talked about this,

I don't know if it's like positive or negative, probably mostly negative. I should probably be more aware of what's going on, but I will literally be out in public. And I won't even be looking at other people and like what they're doing. I'll just have straight blinders on as long as I'm watching my kid.

I don't care what anybody else is doing. Right, you're concerned with yourself. But maybe I should be more concerned with what people are doing because I should be aware of like my surroundings. I found myself also like, there could be something catastrophic going on and I would be like, oh, I didn't see it.

You know, like I'm literally clueless. But people are in competition and I just don't understand that because in order to be in competition, you have to be competing with somebody. And if somebody is not choosing to compete with you, you're not in competition. And I just don't, like I feel like it's just,

I come from more of a collaborative space in competition. I don't understand. I just don't understand it. And I think too, a lot of times that the person who is shaming you or attacking you, it has nothing to do with you. It's about them. Oh, it's always them, always.

It's something that triggered them and now they're going on the attack. But they'll tell you no. They'll say no, no, no, until they're out of that space. And we've talked about it so many times until they're out of that headspace, they won't realize. Cause I went through it myself.

Like when I was going through whatever I was going through and I felt like I was judging my friends or like I was, I guess fighting with my babies, my kids' dads for no reason. And it's like, okay. Do you probably like my baby daddy? Yup. When I come out of that space, I was like, oh.

Right, it's always about the person doing the judging or 20, 20. It's never about you. It's always about the person judging you or doing right. It's never about you. I judge my husband more about like what he does with Jackson than I would about like somebody else what they're doing with another kid.

Yeah. You know, like, I'll be like, why did you think that was a good idea? Like he's, he literally looks like he's about to jump off the top of the house. It's hard. I actually had this conversation with a friend yesterday where it's hard sometimes because we feel like they're ours.

Like we birth them. Like we, no matter what, it's just so different to be a mom than his dad. And obviously both parents are important, but that emotional connection that you have with your child as a mom, that it's so easy to be like, no, like, no. That's not the way.

No, that's not the way or why did you do that? Or it's just, it's easy to do. It really is. Totally. Well, I want to play a fun little game just to have some not serious stuff on this episode. But we're going to play the last. So actually you're only the one playing.

So we're going to ask you the questions and then you just have to be honest. And since you're honest and you don't care, then it's going to be great. Okay, this is the first question. What was the last text message you sent? This morning too, I call them my work wives. They're three other moms who run similar communities,

not safe for mom group totem and hello, my tribe. And I woke up and I said, all right, I'm on my way to the podcast. And they also said, I'm 10 years older than these girls. That's my last. That doesn't matter. I know, I know, I'm like these girls. I have 10 years on these girls.

What are my best friends is almost 10 years older than me. No, I know, I know it doesn't matter. That was my last text. Well, I'm glad that that was your judgment. Do you think we're immature? No, no. I'm just kidding. Not at all.

No, I feel like we're the same age. It was just, you know, in that moment, like I'm almost 40, like I'm old. I didn't even honestly realize that she didn't think about it 10 years older than us. Like I didn't realize that. Okay, so last embarrassing moment that you had? Last embarrassing moment.

I don't know, I probably without the dinner this weekend got like food somewhere, like. Oh, that's me every day. On my shoulder or something like that. I am, I am, like I can eat. So if you eat it, you wear it? Yeah, pretty much. Okay.

I'm sure there's something better and I can't think of it on the top of my head, I know. Okay. Last weird DM? Last weird DM. Do you get DMs like on? I get mostly moms asking for help or questions and things like that.

Most, just the ransom ones from like ransom, like ransom men who are like, hi pretty or, you know. And you're like, I'm married and I have a kid and you see this community. Yeah, and I'm like decline. And you're like, do you not just realize that I just posted about Barf? Right, exactly, exactly.

Like, hi ugly. Right, right, right. Okay, and the last question is, what was your last meal? My last meal was the chocolate chip cookie plate last night in the hotel. Oh, chocolate chip cookie plate? I just, or I got to the hotel at nine o'clock. I had eaten dinner in the car on the way here.

I stopped and got a Chick-fil-A and a Diet Coke because I needed to stay awake. Do you need to tell everybody about your Chick-fil-A find? Chick-fil-A is coming out with mac and cheese. Stop. Really? Do you think it's gonna be good? It has to be.

Oh, it has to be. Everything's good. So I had Chick-fil-A on the way and a Diet Coke because I just needed the caffeine boost. And then when I got to the room, I like put the robe on, put the TV on, like opened my laptop and I ordered the chocolate chip cookie plate. So that was my last meal.

So was that here or? I was sitting at the W down the road. So we don't have that? I usually most, and I get this from my sister because she is like the chocolate chip cookie connoisseur. So am I. If she knows there's a good cookie, she's finding it and most hotels have a chocolate chip cookie plate.

I don't think they do. Really? No. I've never heard of it. And I'm a cookie connoisseur. But that's like our thing. Like we would be in a hotel and it's like we're getting the warm chocolate chip cookies

at least once while we're here and it becomes every day. You should have to look because it's every day. Like door-to-door sight. Do you deliver chocolate cookies? They probably do. You have to look at the room service menu on the desserts. They probably have chocolate chip cookies.

I just probably have never just thought about looking for it. We get in bed. Like my sister normally get in bed and we order the chocolate chip cookies. So I lied. It's not the last question. What is your favorite cookie? My favorite chocolate chip cookie is.

No, just like favorite cookie. It's chocolate chip cookie. Probably Levine chocolate chip cookies. You ever had a Levine chocolate chip cookie? I haven't, but you are missing out. I'm starting to think that you're a more cookie connoisseur than I am. Levine chocolate chip cookies,

just look at them on Instagram. They literally weigh two pounds. Like they are like thick and they ship everywhere. One time? They're from New York City. I can tell you a story about chocolate chip cookies. One time, NBC like did this whole spread for us at my parents' house.

Like we had a promo shoot for, I think it was season two of the show. And they brought in like the best food ever. And they had brought in chocolate chip cookies and they were like scooped out with like an ice cream scoop. So I guess like when they made them, they scooped them out with an ice cream scoop. The top was like really like gooey.

And then like the bottom was like a little bit like crispier on the edge. I was like, okay, good. I'm done. You're done. You're done. I'm not working anymore. A really good chocolate chip cookie is so good.

Favorite cookie? Chocolate chip. Oh, I like a lemon drop from Panera. A lemon. See, I am not a lemon girl. I'm just not a. I eat anything lemon. I don't like fruit.

So will Will. I love it. I like fruit, but my husband and I were both. See, I don't like fruit in my dessert. Like I don't. I don't like fruit. I want chocolate. Like I don't put, don't put a raspberry sauce on it.

Like if it's a cookie, like a chocolate chip, peanut butter, whatever. I'm not a big fruit in dessert. I tried to eat apples and grapes this morning from Starbucks. Like I was like, be healthy. And I was like, I literally took two bites and I was like, I'm done here. Yeah.

I'm not a fruit person, but lemon. I'm a cheetah croissant. I get it. I was like, I get it. I get it. I cancel this idea. Oh my God. I love chocolate chip cookies.

I'm not the best baker. No, I'm not either. I liked it. My husband's the cook in our relationship, like which I'm like so grateful for. I'll do it, but I love to bake, but I don't do it often because I don't want to always. I'm not good at wanting to eat it.

Are you a good baker? Yeah, I'm a good baker. Okay. See, I don't do it mainly because I'm kind of like lazy in that regard, but I also don't do it because I don't want people to have expectations to ask me for something. You know what I mean?

Like if I say, oh, I'm a good baker, somebody might be like, oh, can you bake me chocolate? No. Yeah, but it's okay to say no. Yeah. I feel like I'm in a voider of no, you know? No, I know. I like to please people.

Yeah, but no, I do. I like to bake and I am. I'm good at it, but it's funny because I like it because it's, you can't mess it up if you follow the recipe to a T. Or I can't. But cooking, cooking, like I need a recipe. My husband hates baking because it's science.

Like if you can't eyeball it and he would just eyeball things like with cooking, which is why he's so good at it. My mother-in-law, when I first got with Will, first time I saw her make anything ever, my grandmother is the best cook in the world. And she eyeballs everything. So like there is no recipe. When I would call her in college to like make Will something

to try to like flex on him, I would be like, what's the recipe for that? And she would be like, well, you need a dash of this. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. Really, how much is a dash, how much? So she actually bought me measuring spoons that like said like a dash, a pinch, a smidge. Oh, that's cute.

Yeah, but it was kind of like as a joke, you know what I mean? Right, right. But yeah, she bought me a little measuring spoons that said that, but she's the best cook in the world. I can cook. I don't really, it's weird because whenever I was in college, I liked to cook for Will because I feel like I didn't have anything else to do

other than school. Right, now it's right. My mom is like that growing up. My mom, like when it was chicken night, we were like, oh no, like or chicken. She would make chicken. It was like always dry. It was always not the greatest cook,

but now she's the most amazing cook. And I think it's because she enjoys it. There's no- Not a requirement. It's not rushed. Oh, I literally tell my kids. It's not rushed. When I make dinner, I'm like the hardest part

about being your mom is feeding you because I hate cooking. Right, I like my microwave. I make really good pasta. But they do like my chicken and so. I make really good pasta. You know, I- Same, because it's boiling noodle. Right, exactly.

Boiling, can't mess it up. I like to have things in the fridge that I can put in the microwave. Right. I'm sure when I pick my son up, when I drive back to Charlotte after this, we're probably gonna go to the Chick-fil-A drive-thru. Chick-fil-A drive-thru.

That's the best. I actually love whenever it's baseball season because I know that at least two nights a week, it's gonna be Chick-fil-A. You're gonna get Chick-fil-A. Yeah. You know, because it's like we're gonna go there before the game, so I'm like score.

You don't have to cook. I don't have to cook those nights. There's no cleanup, we're not cooking. You don't have to think about it. And now, with macaroni and cheese involved, I'm like game. But I wonder if it's gonna be more on the drier side or more on the runnier side

or more on like the- Is your son picky about the type of mac and cheese, Ees? Because mine is. Like he definitely is more of the box mac and cheese versus the homey, you know? Or even just like the homemade mac and cheese at a restaurant. Yeah, I think a lot of people are like that.

Actually, I prefer box macaroni and cheese. I like Velvita, but he likes Kraft. So, you know, like- It's funny, my husband grew up on Velvita, I grew up on Kraft. But I like a good restaurant mac and cheese every now and then. It's always Kraft. I like a good gourmet.

You know, like a good gourmet mac and cheese. I don't know. I'm picky about my mac and cheese. But Kraft is definitely, yeah, if there's nothing like a box of Kraft mac and cheese. Well, this has been so much fun. Me too, I had so much fun. Can you tell our listeners

where they can follow you on Instagram? I don't know if you have a Facebook community or- Sure, your website. So my website is motherhood-understood.com. We share stories. There's a place where you can go on the website and submit your story and we will share it. We are on Instagram at motherhood-understood,

no dash, just one word. And we also have a private online support community at maternalmentalhealth.inspire.com. Awesome. All right, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, guys, I think that's all we have time for today.

If you have not subscribed to us, you can do that by searching the purple podcast app on your iPhone, type in coffee combos, click subscribe, click the fifth star and leave us a very nice review. We hope you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya. This podcast is brought to you by Wave Podcast Network.