Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Not Designed For Fractured Families

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

CC392: Kail and Lindsie had a ROUGH holiday break that included therapy, surgery and tears. We start the episode with high emotions! Kail tries to figure out Lindsie's sibling dynamic on BOTH sides. Does anyone else struggle with parenting during their coparent's time? A listener asks if it's weird that their spouse's family is planning a family outing without the spouses and children? Thank you to our sponsor! Calm: Visit Calm.com/CONVOS for 40% off a Calm Premium subscription. Honey Love: Start the new year off right with Honeylove. Get 20% OFF by going to honeylove.com/COFFEE! #honeylovepod IQBar: Get 20% off every IQBar product plus free shipping when you text CONVOS to 64-000. By Texting 64000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from IQBAR. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply, available at IQBAR.com. Reply "STOP" to stop, "HELP" for help Progressive: Visit Progressive.com to learn more! RoBody: Find out if you’re covered at Ro.Co/COFFEECONVOS. Go to Ro.Co/Safety for boxed warning and full safety information. Rocket Money: Manage your expenses the easy way by going to RocketMoney.com/COFFEECONVOS Wayfair: Visit Wayfair.com or get the Wayfair mobile app.

I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is Coffee Convo's with Kale Lowry and Lindsey Chrisley. I really want you to be in your feels Kale. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family and life in the public eye.

I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning and welcome back to another episode of Coffee Combos podcast. I hope that everyone had a wonderful holiday. We're gonna jump right in. Kail, let me tell you that I had to have therapy on freaking Christmas Day. You did? Yeah.

So what happened? Tell me, like, so did you already not have him or did they have plans and you were like, well, I don't have plans with him? Like the custody schedule is like first week of Christmas holiday and then second week of Christmas holiday. And so we've never really done it like that until this year. So I was

just prepared that I wasn't going to see him at all. And then kind of last minute, Will was like, you can have him on Christmas Eve. So I wasn't really planning on it. So I had to get like all of his presents wrapped, like all the stuff, because I was planning on second week. So I got him for most of the day on Christmas Eve and then Will picked him up. And then I kind of like lost my shit. On Christmas Eve, like after or before you gave up? After he left. Like I just wasn't prepared. I also had a really rough Christmas week for like actually two weeks, our Christmas break

and I don't know if it's the same for you as extra long this year with Christmas falling on a Wednesday, it was like a longer Christmas break than it normally is. And I don't do phone calls, I don't call one of the kids dads, just because it's toxic, and I don't want to put it on him. I don't want to put it on the kids. I don't want to put it on anyone. And so that was the longest I had ever gone without even talking to them because it's just for me to put that on them for things

to be said or for things to be overheard. I was just like, it's not worth it. I was going through my own shit with the surgery. It was like, you know what? I did talk to Isaac and Lincoln on Christmas and stuff, but it just felt weird, like this whole Christmas. And I don't celebrate Christmas, so it normally doesn't affect me in this way. But then I don't know why. Did you and Jackson have a good Christmas Eve together, at least? I know you were upset when he left, but what was that like? Yeah, and I feel like other people can probably relate to this, that you want to be so happy in that moment, but at the same time, it's the looming feelings of knowing

that it's going away. Like it's coming to an end. Do have to share, and I want to share, but at the same time, I want him here all the time. Not that I didn't always want him here all the time. And not that I didn't always want him here all the time. I think just the holidays make it so much harder. And I just knew that his life has continued with Will's family as the same as it was

when we were married, but I'm just not involved. And so they all do the same things. It's just like, I'm not there. And then I was just in therapy on Christmas day. And then by Christmas night, at midnight, I woke up with 104 fever and I had 104 fever for 30 something hours. Kristen said that when I finally called her that I sounded like a completely different person. Well, she sounds like a completely different person. I asked her if you all had neurovirus. Well, her I asked her if she had it. I didn't know you were sick, but you all you might

have had neurovirus. Well, the way that I had congestion, a head cold, fever, throwing up, shitting. I wouldn't wish that on somebody that I absolutely hate. Elijah also had that. He went to get tested for everything. When I tell you that man was struggling and he doesn't nap, when he got tested, he had no flu, no strep throat, no rhinovirus, no COVID, nothing. It had to be either

bird flu or neurovirus. And then I, I, I don't know anything about the bird flu thing. But Kristin said it's like a pandemic or something. I don't know what that looks like, but it was actually, I mean, not to like make light of a shitty situation, but I told her I was like, I had bird flu one time. You did? That's what I told her. And she was like, wait, you did? And I was like, yeah, like I had the swine flu, like when it came out. And I didn't realize that like swine was different than bird, like swine is pig. And bird flu is avian. Well, Chris and Ed said something about Alisha getting bird flu because of the chickens, but my chickens aren't sick. So I don't know, and my pigs are not

sick either for swine. But is it something they always carry that humans can get? Or is it something that like they have to be sick with said bird flu, said swine flu for it to be passed to the human? I was not even like I was in college in downtown Atlanta when I got swine flu. So like I was not near a pig. I don't think that's like what it is. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Like wait, now Kristin's sending us a link to the CDC. H5 bird flu current situation. H5 bird flu is widespread in wild birds worldwide and is causing outbreaks in poultry and US

dairy cows with several recent human cases in the US, dairy and poultry and US dairy cows with several recent human cases in the US dairy and poultry workers. While the current public health risk is low, CDC is watching the situation carefully and working with states to monitor people with animal exposures. Maybe it's happening in factories and then the people are contracting it and then spreading it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like a chicken plant or something like that.

Oh, it says age five bird flu detections in US, dairy cattle, wild birds, poultry flocks, mammals, person to person spread is none and current public health risks as well. Well, Kristen, why are you out here lying and saying it's a pandemic? It says probable cases in Delaware. I don't care what's going on in Delaware because I don't leave my house, so it's

fine. Outside of that, I just feel like, I don't know. So I spent Thanksgiving holiday with my mom's parents and then my nanny came and visited me for a couple of days after I got back home. And I think just like the thoughts of not having parents and seeing how old my grandparents are getting, like really being able to notice their age at this point has truly scared me. Because when something happens to my grandparents, what do I have left? Nothing. You have nobody left. And that's the hardest part. I actually thought of you

because I had seen the TikTok of this woman who just had a baby in the hospital. And I was thinking about what you said on Karma and Chaos about the realizations that you were having when you were giving birth to Jackson about like your family and your parents. And in the birth room, she gives birth and she's like, my whole family comes to see the baby. And like, I think it was like five people that walk into the room to like meet the baby in the hospital. And her own mom, like not snubs the baby. That's not I don't want to say snubs it, but like, basically dismisses the baby and goes to check on her own child that gave birth. And I lost it because I was like, one never related to you harder than what you said in Karma and Chaos about like

the whole thing there. And then I was like, like, that's how it felt. Like, it's like what all of these moments are happening in your life, whether it's hard moments, hard holidays, positive things, right? Like, I was just telling Kristen yesterday that 2024 was the hardest and most successful year of my entire life. And for two completely different reasons, and I don't have parents or grandparents to call to talk to you about that. And you're in the same boat. It's like, there is nothing I think, and I don't ever

really get upset about other people because they'll be like, Oh, like, you know, if someone's dad dies and like, Oh, make sure that you like, I don't think of it that way. Like I don't get mad at other people who take them for granted. Um, but I always think of you in that instance, because I know you and I relate so hard right there. But I say all that to say, if you are feeling like you take your parents or your grandparents for granted, don't, because the time is so short.

And I just, I understand the pain. I do. I just feel like so much time has passed and you just get, like in your everyday life, like doing whatever you do regularly and the guilt of feeling like they just want to like hear from you. And I don't pick up the phone. And I have like a really hard time doing that in general. Like I'm a big disassociator. And I don't know why. Like that is I've become way worse since my parents went to prison.

It's just like, okay, well, not that there was a great relationship there anyway, but at least I could pick up the phone and call. And I think I just started disassociating from that point. And like, it's not normal that people won't hear from me for like long periods of time. And it's not just you or it's not normal that people will hear from me for like long periods of time. And it's not just you or it's not just Kristin. Like I won't respond to text messages. Like something is wrong. Well, I don't want to say something is wrong because I don't know that it's wrong. Just like

human nature. We're not built to survive this sort of trauma. We're not built and we're not equipped, I think is the better, you know, description, we're not equipped to deal with this type of trauma. We're not equipped to be by ourselves and be so hyper independent, but we're forced to be this way. And that's not normal. And people are trying to normalize that which is not fair. And like everybody has their own stuff that they're dealing with. And I feel like certain things that wouldn't be hard for me might be hard for you and certain things that might be

hard for you like might not be hard for me, vice versa. But like, it's really hard. And I also slightly envy people who have multiple children because my parents are in prison, my grandparents are getting so old, and then I have to split 50% of the time with the only thing that I have. Yeah. And I know you said that like you don't communicate with one of the dads or I don't know if you're like not communicating with the kids whenever, whoever it is has them. I've recently like been very much struggling with do I need to like enforce no communication

while he's over there because it makes it harder on me, but like is that fair to the child? Coffee Combos podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians, these are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates potential savings will

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also to us. But she basically says, obviously, we love and we miss our kids during their time, but unless Jackson is expressing that he wants to talk to you, and don't take this for the greatest of all, it's not about the parent, it's about the child. So if the child is fine, I wouldn't worry about it. If he's saying like he wants to talk to you while he's over there, I wouldn't cut off the communication. Like for example, on Saturday, I took him and I've been wanting to ask you about this because I'm a big, try to like find like local activities and stuff for him to do like while he's with me because I like to be able to get him out of the house and like socialize him with other people. And I don't think that one way is right and one way is wrong. Will's big on staying at home and like doing things around

the house and playing in the yard. And I do think that there's like a place for that too. But I'm definitely the parent that's like the out and about parent, like take him to like we went to Skyzone on Saturday and he jumped and like met new people that he could play with that he regularly doesn't play with. And I just think it's great for like the socialization aspect and like meeting different types of people from like all over the place. So we went and did that for like three hours and then I took him for a dinner and I had to drop him off at Will's on Saturday evening.

And by the time I got home, Jackson texted me, are you picking me up tomorrow? I am having fun and a good time, but just a question. And like those things break my heart. That one's tough. It's like raising kids for parents to fuck up and not be together. Like, I know that you're not religious, but like, God did not design families to be this way. That's, that is a really, really hard place to be because it's

one of those things where like, you know, they're having a good time. One of my, I mean, one of my kids came home the other day and said that he said that he wanted to stay to play his PS5 or whatever it was. And he didn't, he didn't get to beat his game. And I was like, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, so I don't do I leave him over there for that? Like, do I do I let him because but it's like, there's still a child and then for something like that. It's like it's harmless. But Kristen just said fractured families are not normal just because it's common doesn't make it normal. We aren't built for

that as humans. I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, I've joked in the past that I have the best of both worlds because when things are hard, or I want to get some things done, but emotionally, it's not the best of both worlds. I think, financially speaking, and dividing and conquering in terms of that is the best of both worlds. But emotionally, we're not built for this at all. Coping and co-parenting is rough. It's the hardest thing that I've ever done. Motherhood is nothing compared to coping and co-parenting in my opinion.

And it really, really hurt me over the holiday. I have friends that are married and they have their children at home under the same roof. And it's like when I was sick, it was told to me, well, at least you don't have your child. And it's like, that's- What? Like Eden Mead who chooses not to celebrate Christmas, what the, who would say, oh, at least you don't have your, what?

Yeah. What does that even mean? Comments like that, I think that people like try to make light of certain situations that like, maybe there's not a place to make light of certain situations and we need to be very aware when we're talking to other people who are walking a different life and a different journey than what we are, that we are sensitive to those things. Like everybody's doesn't look the same and we all like I'm glad that you figured it out

in marriage but like we all didn't. I could see if someone said that to me, like, oh, at least you don't have to wrap gifts. That's 100 gifts you don't have to wrap. Okay, maybe that, but to say at least you don't have your kids, no, because whether it's Christmas or not, I still want my kids. I'm just doing the best I can to make the best choices for them. I don't know. One of my custody orders, I'm required to give the entire winter break to dad. I ended up doing the same for the other kids too, because

I was like, okay, obviously if they're going to do all these things over winter break, but it was so sad to come home because I ended up changing my flight to come home early from surgery because I just want to be home. I want to be with my kids. Yeah, it was rough. But what's so interesting about what you just said about, like, well, we both said it not not being designed for this. My mom's, I guess, I guess it was her third husband. It was the first person I called dad. My mom's I guess I guess it was her third husband It was the first person I called dad times. My mom was married like seven times like what?

Yeah, girl I Didn't know about my mom's first marriage until my grandmother died Which my grandmother just died say that again. She married before you Yeah, she was married before my before Raymond like she was and I that's the one that I found out when my grandmother died. My grandma died I think in 2019 2019 or 2020. I can't remember it was when I lived at in Middletown. Go to clean out my grandparent. No, it was when my grand. Somebody died when I

found out and we were cleaning out my grandparents. No, it was when my grand, somebody died when I found out and we were cleaning out my grandparents' house and my uncle was like, we were going through a photo album and my uncle was like, oh, that's so and so. And I said, who the fuck is that? And he was like, your mom's first husband. So my mom's brother and I were cleaning out the house and I had no idea who this person was. Anyway, I, so then she was with my dad, had me,

never met my dad. So then my mom's third husband, his name was Frank. I called him dad because that's all I knew. And so that was the first person I called dad. I what is so interesting about what you just said, like, you know, so happy for you that you made marriage work. I hated when he was home. Like I hated when Frank and Susie were both home together. I wanted Frank to be gone on all his work trips in New Hampshire. When I was a small child, I did not want him there. It's so interesting that when I hear about parents being affected by separations, divorce, things like that, and being upset by it, it's hard

for me to understand because I did not want my mom with any of the people that she was with. It's really interesting that you said about the marriage photos because when my parents divorced, my dad was already with Julie. That was a known thing. My mom was with her husband, Steve, before the divorce ever transpired. He was significantly older than her, had six children. Six? Yeah. So he had had two marriages prior to her. So you have six step siblings?

Yes. Time out. Hold up because I need to do a family tree. Hang on a second. Just don't just stop right there. So we have, we have Lindsey. You're the oldest of all or because he's older, they're old. Okay.

So there's one, two, three, four, five, six, and then there's Kyle. There's Lindsey and Kyle and then separate family you have Don't tell me the birth order Lindsey Kyle Chase Savannah Grayson. Yes. So then we have okay. So then we have Lindsey Kyle Chase Savannah Grayson. Mm-hmm. Wait, but then didn't your-

Then my mom had two boys with him. So in total, he has eight biological children. Oh my God, wait, because now in my- because I've met your birth mother and I've also met two of your brothers, I think both of your younger brothers on your mom's side, or just one? No, just one. Just the one. Okay. So then they had two together. And they're still married, right? Your mom and your stepdad? Here's the other thing, and this is an entirely separate conversation. When one of your parents

gets remarried at a certain age, they're not your step-parent, right? Like that is my dad's husband or sorry, yeah, I guess it could be your dad's husband, my dad's wife or my dad's, my mom's husband, right? So like, if like my mom, for example, if Susie and I were cool, I would not call her husband my stepfather. That is my mom's husband. You're a piece of shit. You're never going to be my stepfather. But do you feel like that because you feel like your mother's not your mother? Like, I'm just wondering if it would be different. Well, like, okay, so say for example, I don't wish this on any of your parents.

Say either of them were to get divorced and to get remarried. Would you consider that person your stepparent or so-and-so as husband or wife? No, I would consider them a stranger because I'm not doing all that. See, that's how I feel, but I don't necessarily think that that is because, like, I don't

think that's because of my relationship with my mom. I think it's because I'm 32. So it's like, that's not my step-parent. That's my mom's husband or that's my dad's wife. You know what I mean? Okay, so- And like, she doesn't want me to be parented anymore. So like, that's just like a useless phrase to use, like step-parent. So in total, there's 13 of you because of-

Marriages, yes. So I have always viewed him as my stepdad because I've known him since I was like six, five or six years old. So that's your stepdad? Yes, and same for Julie. Like I've known her equal amount of time that I've known him, right?

So those are my stepfathers. Okay. So I had no idea that my mom ever married him because I was hell bent as a child. Like my mom was not getting married after my dad. And I don't know why that was because I didn't really struggle as a child. I didn't realize the struggle that I had as a child until I was an adult. I think I masked it very, very well.

And I think it was the small things like you never need to get married to anybody since you were married to my dad. And so I was at my mom's parents and I was just spending time with my mom's parents. And my mom, I found out that my mom was married to Steve, but I had no idea. And my grandmother had a photo album from their wedding. Were you there? No, I wasn't at it. They did an invitation wedding. They went to Cancun and got married and coincidentally, that's where I got married.

Were any of the kids there and how does that make you feel? And I only ask that because Elijah and I have conversations about getting married all the time and I wear my ring, we're engaged, but it wasn't this big grand proposal. We've never really explained it to the kids. I had mentioned it in passing and Lincoln was like, I don't know this for sure, but I think he was very hurt because I know that he was a part of his dad's proposal and stuff. Then I felt really bad. So I had said something to Elijah.

I said, I think that we need to, you might need to do this. Yeah, like with the kids, because I don't, how did you feel finding out? Blindsided, honestly, and not worthy enough to be told. Um, not worthy enough to be told. It kind of felt, it kind of felt like it was done in secret because the way some of us children might've felt. Were the older step-siblings there?

No, nobody was there. So they just, they eloped and just did it with each other. Um, which is totally fine. If that's what you decided to do and decided not to have any of your children and you and Elijah just go off and get married and come back and you're married people, I think that that's okay. But I also think that there's a proper way to prepare children for those next phases of life and seeing something in a photo album just seemed very like blindsided.

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and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash coffee combos today. That's rocketmoney.com slash coffee combos, rocketmoney.com slash coffee combos. Well, I mean, I was shook when I found out my mom was married before my sperm donor because it, and then that's a whole other conversation because it's like, am I owed that explanation before I was born? Like does she owe me any type of explanation about who she was before she had me? Like I don't know.

I mean, I feel like my parents have always been somewhat like kind of open. My dad's been super open about his whole life and like things that transpired and people that he dated, like we would go back to our hometown and he'd be like, oh, I dated that girl in high school or like whatever. And so I think because I had one parent that was very much like that and then I look back now that I've had therapy and I'm like, I think that my mom was probably trying to protect me from the feelings that she knew I was going to have knowing that she had gotten married, knowing that I would not have been good with that. But at the same

time as a child, you don't really have the right or the authority to tell your parent like you can't get married. But I was saying stuff like that. Okay. So then that leads me to my next question is because you were the oldest, I'll say, because I'm not including the step kids who are much older, right? And there were several of you, it was you, Kyle, at the very least, and then you had your future siblings, right? If one of you was saying, I don't want you guys to get married versus a bunch of kids not liking your significant other, because I think they're different, right?

I have seven kids. If I was to get married to Elijah and four of my kids are like, no, don't. At that point, I am going to listen to my kids, right? Because I think that there's a fine line where with kids where it's like, I will take your feelings into consideration, but at the end of the day, you are a child and I'm the adult. So sort of like the Christmas break thing. I love that you wanted to stay over there.

When I found out what the reasoning was, you wanted to play your game versus you know, something else. It's like, I'm glad that I listened to my gut, I made the adult decision for him. Because at the end of the day, like that is not a reason to stay. But in terms of like a marriage, if two or three of my kids even were like, No, I don't want you to marry, marry Elijah at that point, because it's not just one child. And that's, it's sort of tricky for me because I have more than one kid. It's like, I can't just, if one of my kids doesn't like my significant

other, I don't know that I would, maybe I would stay with them, but I wouldn't marry them. But if multiple of my children are like, Oh, I don't want you to marry him. I probably wouldn't. I think that I just want to play devil's advocate here because if you're staying, very experiencing the same thing as if you were to just marry them. And so-

Okay, fair. You know, so I don't know how you would handle that situation. And because I only have one, I can't relate, but I do think that there's power in numbers, right? So if you've got four kids that are identifying the same thing, I think that is something to somewhat listen to. And I think as a child, I was very close to my dad as a little girl.

And I know that parents talk about each other when they get divorced and I think that's like very commonplace. Will and I try very, very hard not to do that and we try to have our conversations that are very like contentious when Jackson's during school hours and or not waking hours. My parents did not successfully do that. They definitely shared grievances that they had with each other with their children. And so I think because they were things that I would hear about my stepdad that my dad would say like she needs to be very cautious of that. He's been married twice before. He has four kids

from a first marriage, two kids from a second marriage. He's significantly older, like their children being involved in this. You know, I think that there is some like validity to that. And I did not like the fact that he had six children. There's validity to it, but I don't know that it should have been said to you, right? Like Probably not, because it's not a conversation that an adult should be having with a child. Like the same can be said about me, right?

Like, and I'll speak to it and I'm very aware of it. All of my kids' dads, they could say the same, like, oh, you know, and tell their significant others, like they need to watch out for Kale, like she clearly has, you know, multiple, like, but I don't think it needs to be said to the child or where the child can see or hear it or whatever. Right. So unfortunately, I've made the mistake with all three of my baby dads of like putting things out there. I have made it a very, very conscious effort to not do that. And even

not even defend myself when I feel like it is necessary for that reason, because I just, I don't want my kids to grow up and like, you know, as an adult now, right? Like you shouldn't have heard those things as a child. So that's cool. I definitely have become much more aware like over time and maybe through like depressive states where there's like great self-reflection during that time, that there are certain things that are just better left for adult conversations and children should not be involved

regardless of how you might be feeling in the moment. It's just best to bite your tongue and have those conversations with the appropriate parties. I never loved the idea of, and I think that it made it a lot easier, Julie came with no children. And she had those children with my dad and have remained married, never separated, nothing.

Those children were a part of me because they were a part of my dad. And so I think that blending was a lot easier than blending with people who have no genetic tie. Okay. So now that being said, what about the siblings on your mom's side that are genetically tied because you weren't raised with her? Obviously, you feel just by nature, some sort of genetic, I don't know if it's genetic or just like you love them. Obviously, they're your siblings. But is it different because you weren't really raised with them?

Yeah. And I think that her youngest, so my parents, both my dad and Julie and my mom and Steve had their last children at the same time. So my mom's youngest and my dad's youngest are the same age. So the same as Javi and me. Like Lincoln had three siblings in one year. Yes. So with that big age gap, that's already like, uh, I was going to college by that point, you know? Okay.

So I think between like, I'll use Lincoln as an example, just because it's the same situation. There's only 10 years and I know 10 years right now is a big deal, but 10 years in your 20s, 30s, 40s is not that big of a deal. So but it's less of an issue. Like, college age, you're almost 20. I know. So I was I was 17 when the youngest to from both sides were born. I was gearing up to go to college. So then I'm out

of the house at that point. So that does change the dynamic drastically. On top of not being raised together, which is no fault of anybody's. It's just like, sometimes things don't work out. Wow. I did not realize there was 17, so sibling on sibling, youngest sibling on mom's side. And then just because I know who your family is on your dad's I that would be Grayson. Yeah. Wow. I'm 35 and have a 12 year old and Grayson is starting his first semester of college. So just think about like dynamically the life that happens that looks so different in those ages. So Isaac will graduate high school before Versa and Valley go to kindergarten.

Yes. He'll graduate high school and be in his first year of college and they'll be entering kindergarten. So his relationship with them, just based off of my personal experience will probably be less sibling-like and more authoritative. Okay. Well, for him, like, well, no, Isaac is definitely more authoritative with like, Lincoln's more like the fun brother. So he's going to be like the fun one.

Isaac is definitely more authoritative. Isaac does not fuck with these kids talking to me crazy. And I don't know if it's cause I'm a different mom when I had him and Lincoln versus when I've had the rest of them. Isaac does not mess, he does not like kids. He told me the other day, he's like, I don't want kids mom. He's like, but I, my siblings better have children because I wanna be the fun uncle.

And I was like, okay, how does that work? He's like, I'm really excited to be able to have them and then give them back. I was like, oh, that's okay. He's like a germaphobe. He's like, I'll wait till they're five so I can do fun stuff but they're not sticky. I was cracking up. What? I said that's so funny, but it's also cool.

I respect people so much more like the Isaacs of the world that identify those things. And they're like, I'm not cut out to do that versus seeing like a shitty parent who's having kids because they're trying to fit into whatever type of societal norms or like they've mapped out I need to go to college, find my life partner, get married, have children. I respect people that identify that that's not for them and never walk that journey versus people just having kids to have kids to say that they did it, to mark it off of their bucket list and shitty parents. I'm curious to see how that goes because I have a cousin, there are six of them and three

out of six had kids. So out of six, and they're all girls. So six girls, only three of them had children. And I brought that up to Isaac. I was like, there are seven of you. Like, obviously I don't give a shit whether they have kids or not, but I just with the younger generations as we know, and like statistically speaking, they're less likely to have kids already. I'll be curious to see how it goes. And I'm good either way. Like y'all want to have kids? Great. Y'all don't want to have kids? I'm fine. Like whatever y'all want to do. You have enough kids that we know you're at least going to have a couple of grandkids.

Just based off of like, statistically alone, you're going to have some grandkids. Well, I told them I want to be called KK. I don't want to be grandma, GD, Nana. I don't want to be none of that. Because you want to be a young grandma. I mean, I love it. Jackson, I am so worried because I only have one child. So if he does not have a child, like who will be, I will have to like adopt some of your grandkids to be mine.

We'll be the fun, what are they gonna call you? I don't know, but like we'll come up with it. We'll be LC and KK. We're going to, cause we're gonna have a beach house and it's like, well, the grand, like my grandkids, we'll just, you'll just adopt them and then we'll have a beach house and it's like, where are we going? We'll go into LC and cake is beach house

and like, we're the fun ones will be the fun weekends, you know, all of that. And you know what's great, I get to take Isaac's mentality on that because then they're actually your grandkids and I'll be like, you need to get your damn grandkids come get them get my house. They were they wore their fucking shoes of my house. They have worn their shoes in here. They wore their fucking shoes in this house. Get them out. And I'm like, all right. All right. With the start of every new year, we talk a lot about resolutions and those

ideas just start to creep into our life. Goals of healthy but realistic resolutions has been very important to me. And one thing that I have been using is Calm. I have tried so hard over the past couple of weeks to get into a better sleep routine. And if you guys have not heard of Calm, Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation, giving you the power to calm your mind and change your life. I've truly tried so hard over the last three weeks to like slow my

scroll and just be focused and meditated on the great sleep that I'm about to get. I have been on such a wild ride with sleep since my surgery because I'm in pain and I have to wake up in the middle of the night to take meds. So as soon as I'm off and recovered, I cannot wait to get back to calm. I'm super excited. Calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation, giving you the power to calm your mind and change your life. And I promise you this works. There's a reason why things like this work for babies because we as adults should also use things like calm and they have meditation, sleep stories, sleep meditations, calming music, grounding exercises, and expert led talks, which I absolutely love. Stress less, sleep more, and live better with Calm.

For listeners of our show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at Calm.com slash Combos. Go to CALM.com slash Combos for 40% off unlimited access to Calm's entire library. That's Calm.com slash combos. I actually had talked to Kristin the other day and I said, I want to have a conversation with Kale about the mental load of being a parent when you are co-parenting. I still feel like I have such a great mental load even when I do not have Jackson because I am the parent that's making sure the meetings are made with

the school and I don't know, pictures for sports and birthday parties and all of those things. I'm still a parent full time, even though I only have him half the time. And it's like a really weird feeling. No, it's really weird because I do envy. I know a mom here in Delaware that literally when her child is with dad, she's off the clock. Don't call me for shit. And I cannot not understand it and i understand everybody's different everyone has their own stuff like. As a mom i cannot picture like. Up until recently i was still going every fucking practice on hobbies time you know what i mean i just cannot and i told just little things i I'm thinking about like the mental load, right? Like, and then it gets confusing too, when you don't have your kids, because I just went

through it with one of them on, you know, online, because I'm like, I thought that I had them this weekend, but I guess I didn't, but I already paid for this tournament. But like, if you're not going to take them, let me know so I can try to get my money back. And it's just like stuff like that, that I'm like, I'm to me, whether I have them or not, mentally, I still have them. Like, they're still with me. I still have to act accordingly. Like I'm still their mom full time.

I'm still his mom full time, regardless whether he is under this roof or he's under Will's roof. Something that really helped put things into perspective for me on missing out on some of the stuff is I had to look back at the time that we were married and I'm like, well, would I have necessarily gone to that baseball practice or would I have been home cooking dinner? See, when I think back, I think we overcompensate when we don't have our kids because we want to be involved.

Even though we know we have 50% of the time, we're selfish in the fact that we want to be involved, even though we know we have 50% of the time, we're selfish in the fact that we want to be involved during that 50% of the time that we don't have them because it's something extracurricular that they're doing. I hate to bring this up. Javi, if you're listening, I'm sorry. This is truly not to talk. I have tried so hard not to talk about it, but just because you said that, I'm pretty sure I still went to everything when we were married. You did? Yeah.

I remember being at everything still, because Isaac and Lincoln played baseball at one point, or Isaac was playing baseball and then they both played soccer and both of us went. But I think that's overcompensating for me not having a parent. So I didn't get to do any of that stuff. You know what I mean? And out of my entire lacrosse career in high school, my mom went to one game and she left early. So to me, I'm overcompensating for that even when I was in a relationship.

And even now, Elijah would take Lux and you know, Lux and Creed specifically, you know, to sports or Lincoln to sports, but I don't really give him a chance to, unless I don't have another choice, it's me. And it's purely out of, I think, what you said overcompensation. Cause my kids know I'm gonna show up for them, right? Like just big picture, grand scheme of things.

My kids know my mom is my biggest fan and she will show up for me. Showing up doesn't mean that you're at every single practice. It doesn't mean that you can't miss a game here and there, but I'm still showing up if that makes sense, but I still overcompensate. So when I was married and I had to like dive back in, like you forget stuff, right? It's like time passes and you're just like, wait, how did I do that? But we'll coach Jackson for pretty much everything he did up until we divorced. And so the baseball was like a big thing.

They had multiple practices a week. So during that time, we'll obviously coaching, he had to be there. He would take him to practice and Jackson just did so much better with me not being there watching practice because he would try to be like dicking around and stuff with me. So I would sit out and like make dinner or catch up on laundry or whatever. And so as far as like the practices and stuff is concerned, post-divorce has been okay for me because with football, I know the dreaded practice

schedule, it's like three days a week and it's so much. The way that our custody schedule is set up, Will took him two days and I took him one day. And then basketball, for whatever reason, every year I have had him on practice day. So I take him. Sometimes Will shows like on occasion, sometimes he doesn't. But I don't really feel like we're missing out if that makes sense. No, totally, totally. I get that.

In that mind frame, like you can't because of your situation with your mom. I feel like this is a trauma response. Because I don't write like I was talking about the one mom that like is off the clock when her kids not with her, like whatever. I do judge that situation a little bit, but I think, you know, other moms that like are not at every single game, I don't think twice about it, right?

Like I'm not judging you. I understand that people work. They need to fill their cups somehow. Maybe they have another obligate. Like I don't judge them in any way, shape or form. I really don't. So it has to be overcompensation. Because if you told me, oh, I'm not going to go to Jackson's football game this weekend because I need to get some stuff done around the house, I don't think that you're not showing up for Jackson. I think that you have other obligations, but big picture, you're showing

up for Jackson. Does that make sense? 100%. And anytime that I'm home, there was one time, I think we were in New York, that he had a football game or something. And I felt so guilty, even though knowing that I was working and also it wasn't my time that I had him. The level of mom guilt that I had not being there, and Will probably wanted to straight up off me because the amount of text messages that I was sending, like, I need a play by play. No, 100%.

We were in Philly the time that Lincoln had a football game that I couldn't be at. And I was like, that was before I went, you know, when I was at every single practice and you know, whatever, but that was, that's rough. Like that is a rough. Speaking of New York City, look what I went and did yesterday. I went and got my tattoos touched up and then I got a clover, a flower and a star. It still has like the patches on them. Well, okay, so I actually love that you did that I need to get mine touched up a little bit. I was worried you were gonna

regret them. So the fact that you added more and got them touched up, I'm obviously proud. I was talking to somebody yesterday because I went and had dinner after I got this done. And he was like, are you going to get a full sleeve? Yep. And I said a full sleeve of sticker tattoos. Absolutely.

Sign me up. You're like, I'm going to get them on my hands and my neck next. No, you're the only neck tattoo girlie. I forget I have it sometimes. It does need to be touched up because people are like, what is it? I'm like, it's a paper plane. Just go and get them touched up. You'll feel so much better.

I will post the onesie. So people ask me, like, what is it for? And it's for I fell in love with this onesie that has paper planes and clouds. It's just so cute for Valley. And I don't know why I just associate paper planes with Valley and bees for verse. I don't know why. just associate paper planes with Valley and B's for verse. I don't know why. I think it's the onesies and little items. And I also know that they're

like my last. So the paper plane is for Valley. It does need to be touched up a little bit. Just go get that thing touched up. A listener wrote in, and I want to know how you feel about this. I'm scared. How do you feel if your in-laws plan to get together with just your spouse and his siblings with his parents and you and your children along with the other spouses and grandkids were not invited? Earlier this year, my in-law suggested this exact scenario to celebrate my husband's

first father's day and his birthday. He declined then because it was his first father's day with our daughter, but for Christmas, his sisters gifted the parents with a get together for just the three siblings and their parents, no spouses, no children. I can't help but feel extremely offended by this when my husband brings it up. I just feel as though when we get married, same with his sisters and their husbands, that we become a part of the family and started our own. I also believe that our children are a part of the family as well, and the idea of excluding all spouses and children feels really icky to me. I feel like we aren't seen as part of the family. My husband thinks I'm crazy.

I asked my sisters and they think my in-laws are crazy because my parents would never suggest something like this since they feel that the guys and the kids are extension of the family. Am I crazy? And this is really interesting because it always gives me the ick when you go to a family function and it's like, okay, people are taking pictures and because everybody's getting together for the year, right? And it's like, okay, the originals take a picture. You know, and then it's like, they start like adding in people to the photo. And it's like, yeah, but now we're all one. So like, why do we need the original photo? Because technically if we're talking original,

then it should just be me and my dad. Just me and my dad. Just me and my dad. I think both can be true. All right, y'all. After the holiday hustle, there's nothing like giving your home some TLC. Yesterday Elijah and I were tearing this house apart, trying to go through everything. So whether you're tidying up, clearing out, or just want some new looks to start the new year, Wayfair's got everything you need all within your budget.

Some of the things that I was looking for were storage bins and storage units, like little shelvings. I did need a new end table for my office because of where I record book club, and so that's something that I ordered off of Wayfair. I absolutely love it. I love Wayfair so much. It takes so much of my money, and just I love shopping Wayfair and I have been very much into doing my organization and I don't know what got

into me but I feel like I need all storage bins that match and look cohesive. I shopped Wayfair for that and they also have great kitchen essentials, bed and bathroom stuff, just the hugest selection of home items, and they make it so easy for you to be able to find exactly what's right for you. There is something for every style and every home, no matter your space or budget. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your New Year's home goals. With endless inspiration for every space and budget, whether you need a light refresh or an organization overhaul, free and easy delivery even on the big stuff and they can even help you set it up. Give your home the refresh it needs with Wayfair. Head to wayfair.com

right now. That's w-a-y-f-a-i-r.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack sponsor. We love IQ Bar. I actually just went through my pantry over the weekend to reorganize a couple things and one of the things was IQ Mix and Elisha was like, what is this? Do I need to try it? And immediately I was like, yeah, especially working out here shoveling in the snow, you need to get some IQ Mix in you. You guys need to start the new year off right with IQ Bar's brain and body boosting bars,

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more fiber, less sugar and carbs, and then alternatives. They have nine satisfying flavors of the IQ bar. My personal favorite is the banana nut or the peanut butter chip. And they also have seven different refreshing flavors for the IQ mix. And right now IQ bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ bar products plus get free shipping. To get your 20% off, just text COMVOES to 64,000. Text COMVOES to 64,000. That's COMVOES to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. Her feelings are somewhat valid. I don't have a right to tell someone their feelings are not valid, right? Like that being said, I, both can be true, you can be an extension of the

family. But why does it have to be icky? Because two parents want to spend time with their biological children. Yes, that doesn't mean that they don't respect you. It doesn't mean that they don't love you. It just means that they want to have a time with just their children. Because once you grow up, everything changes. Like, but at the end of the day, those are still their parents' babies, right? Like, if, if Elijah ever in his life was offended when it's not meant to be offensive, if I was like, hey, like, I want to take all seven of my kids on, you know, a weekend

getaway, I miss them, I love them. Like, you're on grandpa duty, you got, you know, the grandkids and whatever. If he was offended by that, I would be I would be curious to know what is offensive about that. Those are my babies. Those are my I birth those children. And while yes, I understand they have families, and I hope to love all of their significant others and all of their children as my own, but I think they're still like both can be true. It doesn't have to be icky. I am surprised that you and I are in agreement. Oh, you agree? I'm in complete agreement with this. I I'm just gonna play devil's advocate here. I feel like it's the same thing as

like a corporate like Christmas party or something where you might get plus one but like children aren't included in like said corporate or wedding or yeah, like whatever. I feel like you should not look at it any differently than that. And I do think that the dynamics of social gatherings, whether it be parents and biological children versus parents, biological children and spouses, I feel like that changes the entire dynamic of how people even do things. I can think of trips that I've been on with my parents and just my siblings, and that is a completely different dynamic than one of us bringing

or multiple of us bringing significant others. Kristen said, but would you get offended if your child chose not to attend if their significant others slash children were not included? No, because that is their personal choice. Obviously it might suck because you're like, okay, for me, I'll use my example, I have seven kids.

If I'm going on an outing with all seven of my kids and one or two of them choose not to come and then I only have five of them, I'm sad that we're missing the two, but am I offended? No, that's your personal choice. However, it was never meant to be offensive. And I think what happens here is that there is resentment or animosity or unspoken feelings. And that is why

they're choosing not to come if they're not included. Because I think if the intentions are very clear and the relationships are very clear, there's no ambiguity surrounding whether or not this is offensive or why are we not included. This person writing in, there is underlying feelings here about where she stands in their relationship and in the family, because or, you know, why are we not included? Like, this person writing in, there is underlying feelings here about where she stands in their relationship and in the family. Because for me, for example, I'm, you know, I'm thinking of when my grandparents were alive, right? If my grandparents were like, we just want to take the three grandkids, nobody else, nobody would bat an eye, right? And you know, that just is what it

is. Now, if my grandparents were like, oh, I want to take, because my grandparents had four kids, I'm going to take all four of the kids with none of the spouses. Like as a child, like as a grandchild, I'm not, I'm like, oh damn, I can't come. But like, I'm just thinking, okay, that's just for like my, my parents, my aunts and uncles with the grandparents. So like, it's not meant to be offensive. And I just, now I'm starting to think like there were plenty of times growing up that my grandparents would like want the grandkids

but like not the parents involved, right? And so I think that there's just a time and a place for everything. And I think that that's so cool. Like I would love to be able to like one day. I mean, it's not gonna happen. But to have like a sleepover with just the OGs 100% like how fun would it be for siblings, right? Like I'm like, my kids are grown all seven of them. And I'm like,

hey, leave your spouses and your significant, your significant others and your kids at home. Like you're coming over to my house, we're having like a throwback sleepover. Can we talk briefly before we go about the Ruby Frank, how are you say her name, Frankie documentary? Yes. Did you watch it? I didn't watch it,

but I did see that Sherry Frankie's book came out and she, it's the house of my mother, I think it's called. And she talks about, you know, child influencers and things like that. And that all family vlogs are done. Well, this was a deadline article and it says that there is a streamer has ordered Devil in the Family, the Fall of Ruby. Is it Frankie? I think it's Frankie. Frankie, Frank, whatever.

The series will premiere on February the 27th. And I'm excited to be able to watch it because I don't know if you remember, but this was like very much covered all over TikTok. Like a couple of- We talked about it. I know, but like, I don't, sometimes you don't remember stuff. No, I remember that. I can't actually, I've never watched on TikTok. I haven't been able to watch, since we last talked about it, any of the TikToks that talk about what she's doing, any that, let me re-say that. Since we last talked about Ruby, I have not been able to

watch all the TikToks because all of the things came out about what she was doing to her children. I have not been able to watch those or even hear them because the thought of hurting children that are, it makes me sick to my stomach and to just know that there's a person who was capable of doing those things and was basically conspiring with somebody else who wasn't, I just can't bring my, I can't bring- This was the one that would deprive her children of food and stuff? Yeah, I think she even removed one of their beds

at one point. Yeah. I personally- Could you imagine depriving your child of food? No, if anything, I'm like, here, eat more. You know what I mean? What's so wild to me is like, I have heard, and I'm not going to say like who, but I have heard people say that they deprived their kids of food as a punishment.

That's wild. Like if you think that that is going to work. It's a basic necessity. It's a basic necessity. It's also something that it's going to cause. It's a basic necessity. It's a basic necessity. It's also something that it's going to cause... Sorry, my dog's in here. It's also going to cause long-term effects and there are going to be ramifications for that when the child is an adult.

I feel like that is not something that should be used as a punishment because I also feel like it's creating an unhealthy relationship with food. People already struggle with that enough without having an added something. I was talking to somebody the other day and I said, in my house, there is no permission that needs to be given for food or a snack. Jackson just knows it stays in the kitchen. Like we're not walking and roaming around all over the house eating. But if you want a snack, like go and get yourself a snack or ask me to make you something. Like you can have something

at any time. I don't care what time of day it is. If you wake up in the night and you're starving, like get me up. If there is a problem with like what your kids are consuming as snacks, I'll give this suggestion, not that I'm an expert because I'm absolutely not. When I hired someone to organize my pantry with me, one of their suggestions was to put healthy options within reach of the child. So if you have toddlers or I don't what like what Lux's age group is considered you know, seven year olds where he can only reach certain shelves without climbing or hurting

himself. Like string cheese in the fridge, he can reach that apples and bananas on you know, at arm's reach. One thing that we always have that I don't know how healthy they are. But like whatever it sounds good. granola bars and z bars are within a region of z bars. Oh my god, especially the oatmeal cookie. That's what he likes. Rio will eat the other ones. But my favorite and then the other kids favorites are the oatmeal cookies, z bars. I think it's called iced oatmeal cookie. And within arm's reach. So like I

know for a fact Creed specifically and Rio specifically because they're on the shorter side. Can go get any of those things at any time. So that is an option. Like if you're like, okay, I want my kids to have access to food at any freaking point, but I don't know how to go about this. Just put healthier options on the bottom. And so like, you know, always have like fresh fruit in the house. I always have yogurts. I always have string cheeses. I always have some type of protein bar. It's so crazy that you said about the Z bars because he just got into those recently. He also likes the macadamia nut cliff bars. Oh, okay. That sounds good. They've got like white chocolate chip pieces in them. So he likes those. And then I try to have like healthier alternatives

of things that kids like, like veggie straws instead of other bags of chips and stuff like that. And they're just accessible, like in little bins for him to go and be able to pull out. But like, I don't understand the like depriving kids of food. I'll never understand that. That's not something... I mean, people will be pulling out gift baskets trying to eat the Ferrero Rocher. So my suggestion is don't deprive your kids of food. And I actually just recently started following creators who are using their food banks. Obviously, these are creators that need it. So don't go abuse resources that other people need.

But if that's something that you need to figure out, I suggest following some of them because they actually have a lot of snack options for how they make it work. If it's like a financial thing that you're like depriving your kids of food, I'll repost a creator that I started following because she might have ideas for people that are depriving for financial reasons. Well, I actually want to see that. Is it like on TikTok or? Yeah, I'll send it to you. Okay. Yeah, please send it to me. And on that note, that's all we have time for today. Thank

you guys for always supporting our show. Please subscribe and review on the Apple Podcast app. Follow in right on Spotify or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community. We hope that you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya. This thing on. I'm Caitlin Bristow, host of Off the Vine podcast where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor franchise and beyond.

I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Nikki Glaser, Wells Adams, Elise Myers. Just like in this like business jacket, like I would love some tacos. Heidi D'Amelio, Big Brothers Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're going to get through it. And so many more.

So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions, and get a little vulnerable because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together. Follow, rate, and review Off the Vine Podcasts wherever you listen to your podcasts.