Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Sleepovers, Soul Searching & Shit Talk

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

Kail and Lindsie are back on the couch after a sleepover, and this episode gets honest fast. They talk Southern hospitality, feeling out of place, wanting a life they don’t need to escape from, and the reality of motherhood when your “free time” is barely free.Then, Kail and Lindsie finally open up about their friendship and business partnership; how Coffee Convos started, the years they weren’t always close, the fights, the silence, the people who came in between them, and why their bond feels stronger now than ever. They also get into resentment, public narratives, healing from things you can’t fully explain, love languages, gift giving, toxic relationships, and what it means when someone would rather stay mediocre than grow.Plus, a foul play story involving dino nuggets, public bathroom trauma, and one very unfortunate grocery store incident.Get your Fatherless Behavior Tour Tickets herePlease vote for us in the lifestyle category here!For full videos head to patreon.com/kaillowry To send in your Foul Plays email us at [e-mail] you for checking out our sponsors!This episode is brought to you by booking.com. Head over to Booking.com and start your listing today.Fabletics: Shop now at Fabletics.com/coffeeconvos to get 70- 80% off everything when you sign up as a new VIP. Take a quick style quiz and be sure to select coffeeconvos when prompted to unlock this offer.This is a limited-time offer, so don’t wait. Firstleaf: Stop settling for wines that don't quite hit the mark. Head to TryFirstleaf.com/coffee to sign up and you'll get fifty percent off your first box PLUS free shipping for an entire year. RoBody: Find out if you’re covered for free at ro.com/coffeeconvosK12: See why more than 3 million families have chosen K12 find a K12 Powered School near you today! Go to K12.com/COFFEECONVOS to learn more.Progressive: To get your auto insurance quote head to progressive.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is coffee convoes with Kail Lowry and Lindsay Crissly. I really want you to be in your feels, Kail. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye.

I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. I'm ready. Good morning. And welcome back to another episode of Coffee Convo's podcast. We're chilling on the couch. We're on the couch. We had a sleepover last night. And honestly, I have never felt more alive than I do when I'm in the southern states.

Really? Yeah. When we went to Alabama in March, I don't necessarily, like at first I was like, oh, I feel like I could live here. I don't think it's that I could live in Alabama. I think it's the way that the southern states make me feel. So it's funny that you say that because Rebecca texts me yesterday and she was like the Southern Hospital. is real. And I think it's something to do with that. I think so. I also just think it's, I have been in the Northeast for my entire life and then in Delaware specifically for my entire adult life. Do you feel like you belong? No. I feel like I have always been a fish out of water in Delaware. And then also recognizing that my son feels like he's a fish out of water and he's a teenager. Yeah. I think has opened my eyes a lot. And I just,

And I do want to publicly apologize to Hobby because I did privately give him a hard time and maybe a little bit on the episode of when we had him on Barely Famous of like moving. And I was like, well, you could come back to Delaware. Like after this, you can come back to Delaware. And like he was like, but I don't want to. And at the time I and we're just talking about one short year ago. Like one short year ago. Can you believe that it's been a year though? I can because like I can, in some ways I'm like it went by so fast. On the other hand, And I'm like, wow, it just feels like, like it's been a year. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's crazy. And I'm like, why would you want to like, why would you want to do this? And I owe him an apology for giving him a hard time about it because I'm ready to get the fuck out. Like I've spent my entire adult life in Delaware and I don't belong there and I never have. And I've spent so much money living there. But everything that I could be doing would be so much easier if I was somewhere else.

If you could live anywhere, let's take like the kids out of the equation. Live anywhere in the world. No children. Where? No children? Yeah. No children. Like we're thinking like retired us.

Hawaii. I could get behind that. I do they have the most beautiful beaches ever. And they like everybody's on island time. Yeah. I know it's more expensive and I know they don't want us there. But I'm obviously not moving to Hawaii. Right?

But like they don't want us there? No. Why? It like ruins their culture. That's why, you know, I don't blame Puerto Rico for not wanting to be part of the United States because it will do the same thing. What is the word? Is it gentrified? Years ago, I was going to get a beach house there and I had a budget.

Obviously, I know this is out of touch. And it didn't happen anyway. But I'm just speaking on the Hawaii experience. Had spent the three weeks there told Kristen I want to buy a beach house there. I had a budget, $650,000. Couldn't buy anything. I thought I could get something nice there for $6.50. Yeah.

She said I, not Kristen, the real estate agent said, you're not going to find anything near the beach for $650,000 and you might get a two bedroom somewhere miles away. And where are you going to put all your kids? Exactly. And at that time, I had significantly less children, but even still. And then I thought about it, obviously, like, how often am I going to get to a fucking beach house in Hawaii when it's a 15 hour flight?

You know what? I feel like that's like a controversial topic. It's like, okay, if you feel like in life that. you are in a position to where you can buy a secondary home somewhere else. It's like, yes, you could technically do that. But like how much use are you actually going to get out of it? I think if you do it in a way that you can rent it out as a business while you're not there, it could, it makes sense. Oh, like Airbnb or like something like that. Or, you know, you have like regular people who'd go visit it. But I think that when you're talking about Hawaii, which the flight alone

is so expensive. So then I'm like, okay, and then I started looking at Mexico. This was years ago. You guys might have remembered me posting about it because I was looking for agents and stuff like that. I remember the Mexico one. Yeah. So then Mexico would be more doable because the flights kind of fluctuate and you can get good deals on flights. But again, how often would we go where it's not like if we got a house, excuse me, if we got a lake house somewhere where we could drive to, that makes more sense to us. Okay. So I was going to say if you could have a lake house or a beach house, which one would you have? I would choose lake all day because I feel like you would find a lake that was somewhat

like drivable close to you. And you would use it all the time. If I was to stay in Delaware, I would get a beach house because there's the beach an hour away. And a lot of people local to us, they have a beach house that's an hour away, which to me, I'm like, I don't know if I'm getting far enough away from where I am. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, but then also I feel like when you buy secondary homes like at the lake or a beach,

it's like you have put so much investment in that that would it limit you going other places and experiencing other things because you would want to be there all the time because it's already paid for that was something used to I would not go back to the same place I had already visited because I wanted to use that money to explore new place before I make second rounds that has changed a little bit I've been to Mexico several times I've been to Hawaii several times but there was a time where I was like I'm not going anywhere I've already experienced. Mexico is the best bang for your buck. They just put an airport in Tulum.

Oh, really? Before it used to be like a coveted area and you had to like spend extra money and it was exclusive and no kids and like more like bougie, but they just put an airport there, which I think is going to attract more tourists and more of like a less high end experience. But it was supposed to be like a hidden gem. And I feel like everybody talked about it on Instagram for years and it's like, oh, it's like the place to go. It's like off the beaten path. But now putting an airport there, I feel like that's going to change that entire experience. When I went to Thailand, I went to,

oh God, I can't even remember the name of it now. I went to a place in Thai, like I flew into a place where everyone goes and then I flew to another island that was less than 1% of tourists go there. So I went to like a hidden gem portion of Thailand. Yeah. So like I'm all for like off. the beaten path, like the gems and exploring all of that. I am all for staying home. I feel like I have a good life like where I'm at and it almost feels like I vacation at home, you know? I think that that is that is the biggest and highest goal for myself is to be so content with my life that I don't need a vacation from my life. I just need a little peace and quiet at home. Like vacations are great. They're awesome, but I also pay a mortgage and I need to enjoy every fucking cent of it. Yep. I say that all the time. I'm

like, if you're paying a big mortgage, then enjoy your home. No, I love being home. I know that that sounds crazy. And one of the things that I was worried about when Ike and I got together was like, I've known him and I've known him to kind of like be out and about. Yeah. I'm not that way. And I haven't been that way for, I find that the older I get, the more reclusive I am. But I'm okay with it. But then yesterday at the airport, I was thinking to myself, I do these like one week trips every month for work or you guys come to me for a week work trip. Like I don't want to even go socialize with like my friends at home, which I'm thinking is starting to become a problem.

But that is very typical in my family. My uncle is like that. My grandfather's like that. My mom has become like that. Like that is like very Irwin-esque. Like when you all age? Yeah. Like as we get older, we become more.

and more reclusive. And I'm starting to find, but like, I like, I like it and I don't want to be fixed. I feel like I've always somewhat been reclusive a bit. Like, I'll go and do stuff with my friends. But then it's like, okay, I'm ready to be home and no one contact me for five business days. No, Lindsay, I don't go out at home at all. Like the week that you guys come, when Alessandra comes to me, that's me, that's me socializing for the month. I do not go out. Lindsay, I don't go out to dinners. I do not go hang out with my girlfriends. I do not go. I ask, like, I literally do not do anything. And I'm, I don't want to do anything. And it's like, I'm like, part of me is like, am I depressed? And then the other part of me is like, is this who I am? Like, I do not go to dinners with my girlfriends.

I do, like, Emily lives in Delaware. Yeah. I do not go out with her. Wow. So do you feel like. I do not leave my house when I'm home. But like, like, what do you do at home? I've run around with the kids, but I don't even take, like, I don't know how to describe it to you without it being like traumatic, but it's like genuinely when you dissect it, like I don't go anywhere. We don't go to dinner. We went to dinner for our anniversary, but we did not, we do not go to dinners during the week. We do not go to dinners on the weekends. We do not go anywhere. Did you feel out of place when you went to dinner? Like you shouldn't be there? Or did you enjoy it? No, I had a good time, but I was, by the time we were done, I wanted to go home. Okay. I don't want to go to the bar and have drinks after. I don't want to do something. I don't want to. We dropped the kids off at the movies, went to dinner down the street, pick the kids up at the movies, go home.

Oh, wow. It takes everything in my body for me to run errands to physical places. If you had a choice and you could get the same amount of stuff done, would you order online? I only order online. But like your errands, like where are we doing errands? Rebecca does them for me now. I swear to God. So you just sit at home.

Well, so the content house has been helpful to get me out of the house. Yeah. And I do appreciate that because I feel more productive. Even though there's downtime at the content house too as any job, any job that anybody has, there's downtime. It gets me out of the house, but then I'm tapped out. And I think part of it is how many kids I have and like my mental exhaustion. But the other part of it, I do wonder, now I did just get diagnosed, not diagnosed, I did just get put on Prozac. So I'm about to start that. So I want to see if that helps maybe how I feel because I don't, like, I don't want to be fixed. Like I'm fine. But like I also wonder if there is a depression element to it.

Is it just me or does something shift the second it starts to feel like spring? Like maybe you suddenly want to be outside all the time, going on long walks, grabbing coffee. because obviously this is CoffeeCombos podcast or maybe saying yes to plans that you would have said no to last month. And every year, that shift makes me realize that I want a whole new wardrobe to match my energy, but refreshing everything for spring can get super expensive, super fast. So I'm telling you guys that when I signed up as a new VIP with Fabletics, I got 70 to 80% off of everything. It made everything so easy to get new activeware sets and lounge pieces without overthinking it. And if you're like me, sometimes you have to go physically into the store and we do have a fabletics store in our mall and we're obsessed with it. I absolutely love all things fabletics.

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This is a limited time offer, so don't wait. Again, that's fabletics.com slash coffee combos for 70 to 80% off everything as a new VIP. You're on 24-7 when you're on, and then when you're off, you want to be completely off? Well, and I am struggling in real life with the fact that, like, you know, I get one day out of the entire month where I have no children. And there are moms that don't have one day. One day. Oh, wow.

One 24-hour period. That's it. So when you have that 24-hour period, how are you using your time? Usually we're getting stuff done around the house, doing, I do my big grocery orders. I try to sleep in, but my body is naturally waking up. And I get it. This sounds like a woe is me. But I think I'm speaking for a lot of moms in general or people in general.

Like, there are moms out there that don't even get the one 24 hour period. You know what I mean? So I am thankful for it. But I'm also, like, I do wonder a little, because I started seeing a new provider for my medication and stuff like that. I had to fill out this survey. One of the questions was, like, do you feel withdrawn at all? And, like, on one hand, I don't feel like it's withdrawal. I feel like it's by choice.

But on the other hand, it's like, like, like I said, I don't want to be fixed. Like I'm fine. But again, like, I'm gone for these days this week for work. You guys are my friends. Like, my friends are like outside of not saying that I don't have, because people are going to listen to this and be like, what the fuck, Kail? Like, we're friends. That's not what I mean.

It's just like, we do this and we're go, go, go. go, go, go, go and on all the time that like when I'm home, I don't, I don't know how to describe it. It's so interesting how, like, we can have the same title as mom, but our lives look so drastically different within being moms. Like, you're a mom to seven. I'm a mom to one. So, when people are like, oh, I never get sleep because I have three little kids running around, for me, I have a 13 year old and we both slept until noon yesterday. I love that. I love that. love that when I met your friend yesterday and he was like, she sleeps for 12 hours a day. I'm like, good for them. Like I love that. I don't get upset or jealous or anything, but I'm like, obviously I don't

live that kind of life, but I love that. And like yesterday we did groceries and kind of like bounced around the house for a little while, like got some stuff done. And then Jackson and I went to lunch. It's one of those things where like I, like I, it's a, what did you say to me last night when you came into the room, you said some mental anguish. Obviously, it's not related to this, but it's the anguish of like, do I try to fix this? Or could, am I okay? But does it even need to be fixed? And I think that's what you need to figure out. Like, is this just who you are? Or is it a phase of life right now? Because right now, I'm in the thick and the trenches of like all the different age groups. So everybody has things going on. So I schedule everything to my kids. So I'm like,

okay, maybe this is just the phase that we're in right now. Yeah. Like, because Lincoln's getting to the age where we might be able to drop him off at practice soon and leave. We're like up until this point we stay at the practice. But it's so funny that you say that because I remember back when you just had Elliot and Lincoln and you're like, no, even if it's not my time, I want to be at every practice. And now you're like, okay, well, I have all this other stuff going on.

It would be okay to just drop off at practice. Wait, this actually reminds me of a conversation. would love to get your thoughts on. So you and I have talked about kids in sports. We've talked about commitments to a team. And if you sign up for a sport, you got to finish it out. What is your take on a child? We'll use Jackson as an example. If Jackson is on a basketball team, travel, specifically travel. So it's not local. And he gets injured. You've sunk in the money into it. And then there is obviously the team aspect and then you know you should support your team if he's injured and he can't play and there is a game that's two or three hours away it's just one it's not a tournament

would you be driving him no i would not for the sole fact of he's injured so if he's injured he's got to warm the bench he's going to be upset because he can't play so then i've got to deal with the emotional side of that. I get that I get being there for the team, but is every game three hours away or this is just like a one off? Because it's travel. This specific one just happens to be around the injury and it's two and a half hours away. Yeah, I would just say no. If it was local. If it was local, then yes. I do get being dedicated to your team. However, think about how many children that you have also think about the fact that you're in the car for that long, you're in the car all the time anyway. So it's like...

Here's the thing. If I was on a team, I was on a team. I played lacrosse in high school. And if someone was injured and couldn't be there, I would feel the same amount of support if they texted me and said, hey, good look at the game. That's what I was going to say. That would not change a fucking thing for me. Well, collegiate or like even high school when you're like on the bus with the team if you're injured. Yeah.

But yeah, I just wanted to get your thoughts on that because, yeah, I mean, there were times where actually, funny story, in high school when I was on the lacrosse team, I had to get an abortion while I was on the team. Oh, wow. And I lied to my coach. And I was like, hey, I'm actually, I'm going to have something, a procedure done on my stomach. They're like, I have like an ulcer that they need to look at or whatever. And he's like, oh, you're not pregnant, are you? And I was like, no. I don't know why you said that.

But when I was healing, I still went on the bus to the game. games afterwards, but I didn't tell anybody what it was. I was just. How old were you at that time? I got on my 16th birthday. So I was a sophomore. So this was before you had Elliott. A year before. Wow. Wow. So yeah, I say all that to say, I still went that week after I was like recovering. I didn't participate in the game, but because it was a busing system, it wasn't asking the individual parents to drive. Yeah. I have known somebody, but again, in high school, to be injured and the mom provided like snacks for the team and dropped it off in advance just as like a hey we're thinking of you but like he didn't go to the game see but like even that's great yeah

I just wanted to get your thoughts because I think different people would have different takes on it but I think if it was local I would have absolutely been like yes I would I would tend to agree with that the right thing to do yeah for sure it is um so people have been asking us for quite some time for us to discuss our friendship. And we've been meaning to do it literally the last two times that we've been together. We were going to do it in Dallas and then we didn't. And then we were going to do it at the content house and then we didn't. Okay, but I'm warning you. I might get emotional. You're going to cry? I might. I mean, you're emotional anyway all the time. Because I think that I think my tears don't work. Yeah, that's possible. Is that a thing? Alessandra says she believes that I'm

emotionally repressed for a reason. Yeah, I would say, and we talked about on one of the other episodes we did recently about like who is more emotional and I put me and you were like, this might be worse that I'm not. I do want to, I would love to do a full episode or like a semi full episode on our friendship because I think that our dynamic is really unique. But I also would like to call some things out in the event that anyone ever wanted to potentially try to leak stuff about us. If we speak at first, we spoke it first. We spoke it first. You heard it from us first. Lindsay and I have not always gotten along.

We've been business partners for over eight years now, and we have not always been friends. I mean, I wouldn't take it as far to say enemies. No. But I would say there has definitely been times through our friendship that we didn't even talk. We didn't like each other. Yeah, just recording the podcast. Or we had different business ideas that I'm like, I want this and you want that. Whenever Alessandra was telling us about, because I had brought up canceled podcast.

Yeah. And Alessandra had said that like Brooke did interviews where she talked about her and Tanna like hated each other during some periods. And I never hated you. I've never hated you. But there were definitely, there have been periods, ebbs and flows in this dynamic over the past. Because if in case anyone listening didn't know this, Lindsay and I signed business contracts to do this podcast before we had ever met in person. And we met on Twitter, met on Twitter. So we started talking on Twitter and then signed these contracts.

And we didn't know really what to expect. Which is just really wild if you think about it. Like, who just signs business? I think podcasting was so new at that time. Yeah. That maybe a part of it was like, this isn't really that big of a risk. Because if it doesn't do anything, then we just like go our separate ways. But then when coffee convo's grew the fan.

base that it did. It's like, wow, we, we actually have a business. Like, when we went into it, I don't think we were really, yes, like it was a business contract, but like, what did we really have? We had nothing to lose. I mean, I distinctly remember where I was. I distinctly remember how everything went down. We had an agent, which we didn't need. So he was taking a cut from both of us that we didn't need to give. There was like all kinds of. And I just remember my my booking agent at the time told me not to do it. Everybody in, I was in the communications major in school. They told me that there was no money in podcasting. And I was like, well, like you said, I don't have anything to lose. I'll just agree to do it. And if it doesn't go anywhere, oh well. Oh, well. And at that time,

I was not really making good on a lot of my words. Like this, I've talked about this too. Like I would accept brand deals and then like not take them seriously or like, I regret that now. We know Lindsay does love a good wine at the end of the day. And I never really know what to buy. And Lindsay told me about First Leaf because they deliver premium wine straight to your door every single month. And all I had to do was fill out a quick quiz about my preferences. And I literally got it delivered straight to my door. And there was, I think it was like nine bottles. I love First Leaf so much. And I love to just have those bottles of wine at home whenever I'm entertaining on my porch. For those of you who have not heard of First Leaf. leaf, every box comes with easy to follow tasting notes and pairing suggestions right on the box. So it makes it so easy. So whether you're making pasta on a Tuesday or putting together a cheeseboard for you and your friends, you know exactly what to pour. It's like having a cheat sheet that actually makes you look like you know what you're doing. First Leaf works directly with wineries, which means that you're going to get access to award-winning bottles, including wines that you can't always find at

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Try firstleaf.com slash coffee. Throughout this whole journey, there have definitely been periods of time where we did not get along. We didn't like each other, shit-talked each other. And then whenever Kristen got involved like years down the line, she didn't start with us either. That's another thing that I think that people don't realize. Like, I see a lot of stuff, like, almost like people think that she was a third party to coffee combos. And I want that to be very clear that Kristen did not start coffee combos with us. No, and we, in fact, were a top 1% podcast before she joined.

Correct. And so not to, not to like poo on her at all and, like, thankful for what she did in the time that she was with us. us, however, it wasn't because of her. No, it wasn't. We had this for years before she got here, but I didn't bring that up to shit talk or anything like that. I just say that to say, like, if we're going to talk about it, let's talk about it. Yeah. Like, that's kind of where I'm at with it. And like, there were times where, you know, we talk shit about each other. And Lindsay and I would, we have gotten in actual knockdown, drag out fights where we were cussing each other out in text messages and threatening to quit the podcast and, you know, all kind of, like, and Lindsay and I,

Lindsay and I would say mean things to each other. Yeah, it wasn't like. It wasn't like a, we're saying this to so and so, and then they're running back and telling us, we would say it to each other. So it never bothered me if somebody was like, oh, Lindsay said this about you. Okay, she said that to my face three days ago. I don't give a fuck. You're like, okay, dumb bitch.

Or actually recently, we weren't even in a fight. And it wasn't like, I'm looking directly at the camera, for anyone listening. There was something came up and it wasn't like we were fighting or anything, but I was like so-and-so said this and you were like, yeah, it was me. And I was like, oh, like we don't give a fuck. Like we have fought like sisters. We've not talked.

We've had breakups and still podcasted. Like we've shown up as business partners. We have had very different creative ideas. But through it all like somehow, what do you think it is? Because like obviously Tanna and Brooke knew each other. for a long time and we're friends before their podcast. What do you think is different about ours versus theirs? I think it's exactly what I said this morning when we were in here and makeup, that it worked because we didn't know each other on such a personal level whenever we started. It was more like,

okay, this is a business arrangement. And then I think the friendship built because of the business. What's so funny, too, and I don't know if people would ever expect this, but like Lindsay and I can sometimes speak for each other in terms of like, business right like one time i don't know if you remember this but it was when i didn't have a i had even less of a backbone than i have now and i didn't know how to tell like hair and makeup like what i like and what i don't like and we were getting ready for some kind of shoot it wasn't just podcast it was like content as well and lindsay just like walked right up to the makeup artist and she was like kale likes this this this this and don't do this because she likes this and this is what

we're going for. And she, like, spoke for me because I wouldn't have, it's something so simple and so, like, I should have been able to speak for myself, but I never, I've always been a people pleaser. So, like, when you kind of got my vibe of what I liked, and it actually, I still think about it all the time because I'm like, no matter how much we have disagreed, fought like sisters, didn't like each out. Hey, it is a strong word, but, like, didn't like each other during sometimes. Like, we've always had that, like, working relationship. Yep. And I have always appreciated that. Or, and this one is like a little bit different. If I, because I have gotten to know you over the past almost nine years, and you've gotten

way more, I'll say flexible. Yeah. You used to be very rigid. Yes. And so I kind of still hold on to that because I don't know if like, you just go through phases of life. Like if the flexibility will go away at some point. Yeah.

Or like maybe like it's a phase where you're like going back to like a little bit more rigid. Like we wanted to do a color change for coffee combos. And I went to Alessandra and I was like, I don't want to, or was it the color change? Yeah. Was it the color change? And I was like, I don't want to put this on Lindsay's plate. Like I know she's overwhelmed. She has a lot going on right now.

I want to simplify this and take her to these options. That's way more simpler. Do you know what I'm saying? And so like normally I don't want to take someone's options away from them, but I just have feel, I feel like I know how your brain works sometimes. And so I was like, I don't want to overwhelm her. If I simplify it and then bring it to her. I get six different color options, that might be what sends me over the edge.

You know, that one color change. I am one strand away from a grippy sock vacation right now. Or even like this trip alone, I'm like, I don't want you to have to worry about going to Delaware or going to L.A. with me. Like, I will just take that off your plate and I'll come to you because I'm already, I already blocked my week out anyway. I'll come to Atlanta. So like just making those decisions has to me shows the evolution of our relationship. That's not to say we won't fight next week. I want to preface before saying this, this is no shade to anybody involved in the entire situation with us. But we've been pitted against each other.

I feel like we were definitely pitted against each other by one party. And I feel like Keel and I lost our business touch with each other for a period of time because communication was kind of stopped for us communicating directly with each other. And I feel like people have noticed a shift really since like January with our stuff. And I think that's because we are so in communication at this point. And that was lost for such a long period of time with the podcast. Like over the last three years, I feel like that was lost. And I'm just like, okay, well, whatever's on my calendar.

I'll just do it. And we don't really need to communicate about it. It's like, no. We weren't even having, I don't have to tell you, but I'm more so telling the listeners, like we weren't even having a basic conversation about what we were going to podcast about, you know, literally anything. It was going through one person and then that person was doing the communications. Lindsay and I wouldn't talk.

Like, we just did not speak to each other. We didn't hate each other. I'm sure at that time we were shit talking. But outside of that. You're like, I never hear from her. No. We weren't hearing from each other at all. Which is just, it's crazy looking back on it.

I feel like when I was living it, it didn't feel crazy. But now looking back on it, I'm like, how did we sustain a business for those, and I'm going to say three years, could have been longer, don't know. How did we sustain a business with no communication? Yeah. So I don't know if you guys can hear Alessandra. She said, I don't think it started off that way. It was slow.

It was like a gradual. shift and I wholeheartedly agree with that. I think it was around the time that I got pregnant with Creed, in my opinion. Creed was born in 2020 and that was the first time I took maternity leave, which I'm putting that in air quotes for anyone listening because it's not really maternity leave, but it's basically where we were pre-recording so I could have a little bit of time off with a newborn. I would say that that was the period of time where I started like looking back, right? Hindsight is 2020 and that's where I started to where I think there was like a gradual shift of like like you noticed it yeah um and then does everyone remember when we took a six month hiatus the six months

it was six months right 20 around 2020 the same time I feel like it was close to six months if it wasn't six months I feel like it was close um I don't think it was 2020 though and and I think that was a really hard time for you in your life from an emotional standpoint and like where you were. But then also for me at that time, I was getting ready to file for divorce. And we had a lawsuit with the podcast. And we had a lawsuit and we were needing to deal with attorneys and there was a lot of money that was going out the door. We didn't know what was going to happen. Like, were we going to have a podcast anymore? Were we going to have to start from scratch? Like, what was going to happen? And I think that was that was a really scary part of our business and I don't I appreciate everything that

everyone has done for us collectively for the podcast and I want that to be clear but also people taking credit for things and and this is not a single person this is collectively collectively people taking credit for things that they should not be taking credit for trying to steal our podcast from us it felt just very icky. The lawsuit, I feel like so much time has been removed at this point. So basically what happened with our lawsuit and I can't remember that year. I thought it was around 2020, but maybe it wasn't. 2019, maybe.

Essentially the situation at that time from what I can remember was the contract that we were with was they could get rid of us as hosts and keep our episode. So there's this thing, it's like an IP situation, intellectual property. And they could have coffee combos podcast, but with two different hosts. Or they could replace Lindsay and it would be me and somebody else. Or it would be Lindsay and somebody else. However, they saw fit. And so Lindsay actually was doing the spreadsheets. This was before Kristen was involved, if I remember correctly.

Yep. And she was just your personal assistant at that point. She wasn't working for coffee combos. The spreadsheet thing was crazy because, again, that was, I don't think really necessarily your personality type changes, right? But like, maybe I've just become more adaptable. I would say I am probably a type B, but sometimes present as an A. Like in terms of scheduling and stuff like that? Yeah. Like certain, but I think that I have become so much more flexible. But at that time of my life, I feel like I was just like trying to grasp

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when I noticed that money was missing the amount of spreadsheets and the hours and all the stuff that went into the behind the scenes of everything. And I'm like, okay, well, we're working and we're not seeing this money and we are partnering with these brands and we're putting them on and we're getting nothing out of it. Like we're essentially working for free. Like this is a hobby. And at that time, too, I don't know if everybody in this room remembers, but, there was a trademark filing on the name of our podcast. I forgot about that. And I literally lost my mind.

I'm like, somebody else filed the trademark for our podcast. As if they owned or created the podcast. And so that was a really, like, weird time. But I think that was a time that you and I band together. Yeah, we did band together on that. We really did.

And that was hard for me because I really liked them. Like I really, I have to, I always give everybody their, you know, their flowers. And I think that I sometimes the audience of Coffee Combos podcast has fallen in love with people that I put up on a pedestal. And they don't know the full backstory. And they don't know, you guys fall in love with people that we put on a pedestal. So I think that and I put them on a pedestal because I don't want anyone to say, Kale never gave credit where credit is due. right? And so when it comes to stuff like that, I get really frustrated because this was a top 1% podcast before anyone got involved. Well, I think giving credit is one thing. But even as far as the

trademark goes, you deserve the credit for that because I remember being at 51 Thornhill Court in my bed. Chris was next to me and you texted me and said, how do you feel about the name Coffee Convo's podcast? Because we were trying to decide what the name was. Lindsay asked me, did I want to start a podcast? Lindsay picked the name of the podcast. So that was you. Why would anyone else file a trademark on that? And it's like if anybody was filing a trademark, it should have been us.

And now looking back on it, like hindsight's 2020, make sure you protect your businesses, you know, to the fullest extent. Make sure that you read the fine print of a contract. Make sure that nobody is taking credit or ownership. Going back to the conversation about like the maternity leave situation, I was told at that time that, and we didn't talk about it. at that time. Yeah. So I don't think we've even talked about it. I was told that, um, you were very upset with me about all my pregnancies because I wasn't putting them on coffee combos podcast.

I wasn't talking about enough like personal stuff. And it's not fair to you for me to like put it everywhere else and not dedicate it to the podcast. That's not true. Um, as far as me being pissed off when you went on maternity leave with Creed, we don't get maternity leave in our, business, right? Like, we can choose it if we want to give it to each other. If I got pregnant, I feel like you would give it to me. If you got pregnant again, I would give it to you. I was the one who said, give her the six weeks so that she can enjoy being off with her baby. She can take time to heal and let's pre-record all of this stuff. I believe you. Why would I ever say otherwise? And like, what does it matter where you put something? Because it's all,

it's all interconnected. Everything is interconnected. So if you're putting something out there about a pregnancy somewhere else, they're probably going to go and now listen to Coffee Convo's podcast because you put it somewhere else. To see if there's anything. There's anything there. Yeah. So that just, that mentally just doesn't make sense. I will say another really hard time and our friendship was the baby mama's situation. Looking back, I still see both sides. I see how I did it and I see why you were upset. But to your point, Lindsay and I started CoffeeCombo's podcast. It was Lindsay's idea and it became very successful. And I think that when V approached me was in 2020, I know that for a fact, because I remember where I was when she texted me at 208 Bohemia Milpon Drive. And I was in my living room

and she texted me and said, let's do a podcast called Baby Mama's No Drama and we could talk about our co-parenting. At this point, I go to Kristen and I say, hey, I'm going to start this other podcast. I'm not going to tell Lindsay about it because at this point, we are now. pitted against each other and I say I'm not going to tell Lindsay about it because she's not going to like it whether she knows now or she doesn't now looking back I would have rather told you and you be upset than for you to not know and be upset because I found out about baby mama's when it was announced right the trailer like when you all dropped the trailer for that show and so I just kind of felt um slighted in a way and again I don't want anything to be

taken out of context. I don't hate anybody. I don't want to be ugly to anybody. Like, it's so far in the past that who cares. But I just feel like when we built coffee combos and not really knowing what we were doing, but we kind of had to figure it out on our own. And then for someone else, a third party to be able to come in and kind of like piggyback off of audience that was already built and established. That was just a little icky to me. You should have been upset with I was so greedy at that time. To me at that time, I did not care as long as I was making money. I did not give a fuck. I saw what we were bringing in for coffee combos and I was like, I don't give a fuck if Lindsay's upset. I need to make this money. And I allowed that and I was so greedy at that time

that I was, I let myself get jaded. And I think, you know, we should all as friends support you. each other's other ventures, right? Yes. But when someone comes to you and says, hey, we should do a podcast talking about co-parenting when that was a big part of coffee combos, it almost felt like it was ripping it away from our show to put it somewhere else. And you guys didn't talk about co-parenting. Well, that's what I, we started it.

It was when we started Baby Mama's podcast, it was. It was meant to be strictly about our situation and then sprinkling in other people's stories. And I think that that could have been such a successful show, honestly. It was successful. I mean, it was successful regardless. But then it was like you guys weren't talking about what the intent that the show was supposed to be about. Right. And then it turned into kind of like, we're going to talk about pop culture and we're going to talk about like things that are relevant in the media.

And it's literally like copy paste. do you think that you could have stayed in that business and continued to run that show had it gone the way that it was initially intended? No. Not with everything that transpired personally in real life for us. That was separate from the podcast. It would have ended regardless because when you really break it down, V and I have never co-parented.

We never have from the beginning of time. I remember recently, semi recently, I saw a clip of me crying on stage on like a reunion saying I couldn't wish for a better stepmom for Elliot. And I'm thinking back like, why did I say that when I know what I know? It could have been where you were. That was the knowledge that I had at the time. Yeah. I would agree with that. The last three years have been eye opening and I have been trying really hard not to be resentful because.

I am the villain for Joe. I am the villain for V. I am the villain for Hobby. I am the villain for Chris. And I am the villain. And one of the last things that I said to V was you said to me that you did not want me to be the villain anymore because you know the truth and you've never spoken up. So to me, I'm resentful. I try not to be. It's hard not to be, but I am. Resentment can eat at you in such a bad way and impact your mental health so bad. And you don't even realize, like, the amount of resentment once it, like, starts seeping in, it can control multiple aspects of your life. Yeah, it's like mental anguish.

And then you don't really know if you're making decisions out of, from a clear mind or if it's coming from resentment. Yeah. Surviving the BS. Surviving the bullshit. Okay. So we have some questions. When do you think that we've been the closest?

I would say we've been the closest this year. in 2026. I would agree. But I think also sometimes people bond together over mutual trauma. When we first met the first time I came, like the first couple of times I was coming to Atlanta, we bonded a lot over some traumas that we've never really discussed on the podcast just for privacy and things like that. And I think that we bonded over that. And I'll never forget those like early moments, those like early days. But I think in terms of like full alignment, more so now. And that doesn't mean that we agree with everything, like on everything.

I'm just saying like in terms of like we're having constant conversations. We're always on the phone. We're texting. We're keeping each other updated. We're sending each other thoughts. There's no. There can be disagreements without an argument. Prior to this year, Kale and I never cold called each other.

Never. Ever. Ever. And now it's like, now it's like I look down and Kail's calling and I'm like, some shit's happened. I'm like, I know this ain't good. I know this ain't. Like, or she's calling to talk shit about somebody that we don't like.

Hey, uh, did you see that fucking post? Like, uh, yeah, I actually saw it. You're listening to this podcast. So I know that you've got a curious mind. And here's a helpful fact that you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. They make it super simple. Popover to progressive.com.

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searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking. I would agree that I think that we've been the closest this year again over some joint traumas. I would also say that there have been things that I have been through most recently that you very much can relate to in a way that I had never really experienced some of that stuff before in my life. And I feel like not that I'm glad that it happened to you, but I'm glad that like I can go to somebody that really understands the complexities of those things. And like I feel like we relate to each other as moms of boys. Now you have a girl. But I feel like we've always kind of related in that way. I think being divorced.

we've related to each other. Public eye, reality TV. Yeah, there's a lot of relating there. But with the stuff that I've currently been going through and stuff that you're currently going through, I don't know where I would be if I didn't have somebody that I could have those conversations with. Because it's one thing to not go through it and listen. But it's another thing when you can talk to someone who has experienced it already and the

complexities of I know how this will look to other people. unfortunately some of the recent things that have transpired like I've been through it all publicly privately um and yeah I mean you can listen to someone and and not have gone through it and it's just no offense to anyone that you know you've talked to that hasn't gone through it's just not the same it's not the same and I just think like the other day I woke up I had taken a nap and I woke up and I text Kiel and I was like I just had this dream and I'm not going to detail what the dream was. But she was like, I actually used to have those dreams during that point of my life as well. And sometimes you might miss something that feels very toxic, you know, and it's a normal

feeling. And I'm like, will these dreams ever go away? They just started subsiding over the last year. And it's been. That's a long time. Five years. That's a long time. I'm like, I don't know if I have five years in me. How can you heal from something that is constantly thrown in your face? Well, certain people, certain abusers will find new ways to manipulate you and get into your head, which is just a different form of abuse. The problem with that is that you cannot prove that in court. That side of it does not hold up in court no matter what. Even if you have a psychiatrist, psychologist, experts, that's just testimony. It's most likely not going to sway either way. So, you can't do anything about the mental and emotional abuse.

Mental and emotional abuse is a really hard thing to prove. That's what I'm saying, because you're always going to have the, on the defense and the prosecution, you'll have experts saying one way or the other. So it's incredibly difficult. And so you just, that's the silent battle, like the part that you battle silently. Silently, yeah. And it sucks. And last night, I went and sat on the beach.

bed with Kail and Ike and kind of disclose some things that I've been going through and really been going through over the last year. And I'm just like the mental anguish of going through something so heavy. And not being able to tell anyone. And like to feel like you can't tell anybody about something. And if you do, are they going to judge you for what you're telling that, Like, it is really difficult. And I told her this, it wasn't related to any recent events. It was something separate. And I told her a story about how I went through that in high school as like, obviously

different time frames. But I went through the exact same thing and I had nobody to talk to. Like, I had no. Who do you tell when it's something so heavy and so private and you can't tell a single fucking soul? It's one of the heaviest things I think that I've ever. gone through in my life. Like divorce didn't even touch that. No. No. Like when you're talking about your health, my divorce didn't touch it. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Next question.

Do you think that the podcast works when you aren't close or is the content better when you are close or just business partners? Oh, that's a good question. I think it depends on the friendship. I think the podcast is obviously way better when number one we're together. Yes, in person. I think Kail and I both have whatever that disease is where it's like... I have a disease. Like where the person is like not like out of sight, out of mind, but it's like X, Y and Z going on now. Like I'm going to put that on the back burner for a little bit.

Lindsay, that's not a disease. That's object permanence. Oh. well what's that a disease everything is a disease object permanence like yeah what's that it's not in front of my face yeah it does not exist to me like I cannot tell you how many things I have like

re-bought and re-bought and re-bought and re-bought because I it's not in front of my face I think for us it's that same way like it does make it a little challenging because we don't live in the same state but like yeah to your point I do agree with you but I do I think the podcast could work Well, we've proven that the podcast can work even in hardships or private fallouts or whatever. Do I think that it drastically changes the content? Yes.

Do I think that it drastically changes the vibe of the podcast? Absolutely yes. Can I ask the listeners to either write a review or leave a comment telling us, have you guys ever picked up on when the vibes are off? Have you picked up when the vibe or have you thought that the vibes were off? Maybe they weren't. We were acting fine, but you were like something's not right. Do you guys as audience members pick up on it?

I also think that it's fair to say that sometimes the vibes can be off, even if we're not in a fallout or we're not in an argument. It could just be what somebody is individually, personally going through in their life, too. I also would like to say that you and I have not fought in a long time, probably years. A long time. But we wouldn't fight, but we also wouldn't. speak at all. Yeah, it's just kind of... It's my business partner.

What the fuck do I have to say? You know, it's like if I've got something to say, I'll just talk about the fucking topics on the podcast. Fuck off. Fuck off. I do tell Becky sometimes don't update me on things until we talk on the podcast. So I actually used to be like that. And I think that it's fair to say I used to not like to talk a lot because I'm like, okay,

well, we're going to talk about all of this over text. and then we're going to get on the podcast, it's going to be the second time that we talk about it. You know? And so I kind of liked the, we don't really talk so that we can talk on the podcast. But now I'm so fucking past that. I need a fucking friend. I need a fucking friend.

I'm so past it. I'm like, I don't care what it changes. Okay. So the next segment we're going to talk about is love languages and we're going to deep dive into that. You said we took a quiz and we'll post the link to the question. whiz, but I am not shocked at my results. I'm not shocked at my results at all.

But I also kind of feel better about myself as a human being after reading my results, because I'm like, wow, I'm pretty well-rounded, I feel like. I am mostly well-rounded. It closed out for some reason, but I was acts of service, which I've always known. I've always been an acts of service, girly. Is that how you give or receive? It was how you receive love. I receive love by acts of service.

service. Okay. What was yours? What do you think mine is? Quality time. Yeah, by 36%. Oh, that's a landslide. Yeah. Physical touch coming in, close second, 27%. Acts of service, 20. Words of affirmation, 17, and receiving gifts, zero. Mine closed out, so I can't tell you my percentages, but it was my top one was acts of service and my second one was quality time. I just feel like when someone gives you their undivided attention and time, like nothing can compete with that. I want all of it. I want to crawl into Ike's skin. You want to live on him. I want to be around him. Even if he's not talking to me, I also send him links to all the stuff I want him to buy me. I send him links to all the stuff I want him to buy me. I want him to kiss my face all day. I want him to touch me all the time. I want him to. spend time with me. I want him to fill my gas tank and clean out my car. I want him,

I want all of the things. See, I have had to learn. And I don't know if this could be like a oldest child thing with the combination of having to learn to just like be by myself. I really enjoy doing things on my own if I have the time to do them. But then I also really enjoy like everybody knows that I love everything pressure wash and pristine. Okay. And if somebody wants to come over and get out that pressure washer and go just like hit the driveway. Yep. You know, yes. Love that.

Is that an act of service? Yes. Or is that a gift? It's both. It's both. I would say both. I would say both. Okay.

So it says which love language were you raised with versus which one you actually need? Neglect. Neglect is crazy. Starvation. Neglect and starvation. is crazy. Lindsay doesn't know I ate mud pies. Kiel. Like, was it because you were hungry?

Like, what did you think the dirt was going to do? Fill me up. Honey. That was at 9 Wood Street in Honesdale, Pennsylvania. She remembers every address that she's ever been to. Well, I also get called a liar every single day in my life. So you're not about to call me a liar when I can remember specific details about my trauma. Here, like, this is exactly where I was when I was being traumatized.

You can't. I'm not making this up. up, like, I can pull out the facts. You know what I'm saying? I will say the love language that I was raised with was gifts. And it's the thing that I hate most. My parents were always pretty good about, like, with as many kids as they have, I feel like they were pretty good about giving us individual time. Um, was it quality in the sense that like, do I really want to go and look at houses with Todd, no. Do, will I get in the car to go look at houses with him because I know we're going to lunch? Yes. Fair. So like they would do stuff like that, but also with as many kids,

and you get this, like, it's hard to like divide your time with that many kids. And my parents are really good gift givers. It's just, I think that I stopped, I think that I stopped liking luxury things because it was attached to like a stigma. A stigma or like a... Maybe stigma's not the word. I think what you're saying, like it came with it. Like it wasn't no strings attached. It was like, yeah.

It came with expectations. Yeah. My mom was the queen. Shout out to boozy, Susie, Suzy. Queen of I picked you up from school drunk. Now you're mad at me. I'll take you to the store and buy you something. Yeah.

See. that is not healthy gift giving. Like I remember in sixth grade I wore this pink outfit. It was Adidas. I got it from Sneaker King in Honsdale, Pennsylvania. She drove me there fucked up. Like, fucked up. She was so fucked up.

And it was pink Adidas shorts with the three white stripes. And then a pink Adidas shirt. I wore it for Picture Day. And it said Adidas across right here. And it was like a holographic. You know those holographic stickers? It was like that. She bought me that because she was.

fucked up and she's like, oh, I feel bad I'm fucked up. But do you feel like when you were getting it at that time? I was mad, but accepting the gift. Okay. I get that. And see, I, when I got married, I told Will, I was like, I am really just like not into gifts. Like, I want to lay on the couch and I want to snuggle or I want to go on a walk or like those types of things I wanted to do. And I'm not necessarily saying my parents didn't give me some of that stuff because they did. I just learn to hate gifts because, yeah, strings attached. And I've been in other relationships where strings have been attached to gifts. I can't really remember other people giving me gifts. I will say that if you give me a gift that I hate, it shows, people will say, oh, it's the

thought that counts. You didn't think of me because you don't know me. The thought. thought behind a gift. It is not the thought that counts that you thought about buying me something. Do you guys already know the diamond tennis bracelet story. Do not get me a diamond tennis bracelet. The fact that any person would buy Kaelin Ray Lowry, a diamond tennis bracelet is insane. I wanted Justin Bieber tickets. No, someone. Kesha. And now I embarrassed you in front of your whole fucking family because you saw it all over my face. I literally asked for Justin Bieber tickets. Like I was so excited. I thought I was getting them. And I opened this shit and I'm like, first of all, you think I'd wear this shit?

I love a diamond bracelet. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, that sounds like something that you would like. Yeah, I'm like, I would like that gift. Oh, I got me a, I wanted. So do you put your butter in the fridge or like a stick of butter? Do you put it in the fridge or do you put it on this counter? Yeah, but I know that that is like a weird thing because I go to a lot of people's houses and they'll just be like sitting out by the stove.

So I was putting, because I like it soft. So I was putting the stick of butter in the cabinet. And then like Tata and Popop would open the thing or Ike would open the thing and be like, why is there butter in here? I'm like, because I want it soft. And they were like, kill, you need a butter container for this. Like get a butter container. Yeah. And then you can put it on the counter so it's covered.

Because like if you sneeze in the room, the butter's out. Who is sneezing in your cabinet? No, in the kitchen. I'm saying if it was out. Oh. So it's like a butter container with a lid. And so I got me a butter container and I was so excited. Does butter rot?

Wait, are you not supposed to leave butter out? No. I think that this is a myth, okay? I leave butter out now because I have a container. That's why you're a shitting yourself. Wait, what? How much butter do you eat? Not a lot.

Salted butter can safely be left out on the counter for one to two days or up to a week. Well, unfortunately, I'm eating it after two weeks. Yeah, it says, you can leave. butter on the counter, but it depends on how you store it and how long you plan to keep it there. Short answer is it safe at room temp for a few days to a week for most households, not ideal for long-term storage. Butter is mostly fat with very little water, which makes it less friendly to bacteria than other dairy products.

Salted butter lasts longer than unsalted because the salt helps slow the spoilage. So I guess that's like a preservative. Oh, Ike said we run through a stick of butter every two to three days. That's unbeknownst to me. Somebody must be refilling it because I thought... What are you all putting that much butter on? When we cook? Like in the pots and pans?

Yeah. Like you're putting it in there? Noodles, toast. Why am I today years old realizing that butter is dairy? I actually didn't know that also. I'm churning butter. Like... I just thought it was like lard.

Like that, the fact that I am just now knowing that today is literally insane. Wait, why don't you get fresh? butter from like the Amish. Lindsay, I don't leave my house. We, we have established. Yes, we have Amish markets and I do love the Amish markets, but that would require me to go to the Amish market. Wait, okay.

So where have you felt the most starved in past relationships? Oh, um, the one with my mom. Kiel, in regards to love languages. Um, I think is, what, what love language and past relationships were you starved? All of them. I also wasn't contributing. So let's start there. I'm not the only victim here. We were not contributing to each other. I would say that when I was in a five-year toxic relationship and my therapist told me that I romanticized the sex, it was not as good as I thought it was because I was starved everywhere else in the relationship that I would. I was like, well, sex is the only way that he's

showing me that he loves me so much. So it must be so good. It's, I have to give it to him as much as he wants, et cetera, et cetera. But it's more like in a situation like that. And if you've ever been in a situation like that, it's because that's all you can attach to because everything else is non-existent. Like the quality time's not there. The acts of service. The what else is there? Words of affirmation. Oh, yeah. No, none of it was there. But the physical touch was. I can tell you, I look back on it today and I'm like nothing about that was good. Have you ever been in a situation where your friend is experiencing the same thing that you already went through with someone?

And obviously when you're out of it and you look back, you're like, I was so fucking stupid. And your friend is like justifying, making excuses. Oh, this is how he is. Like, no, he literally doesn't like you. Yeah, it's called me and you right now. What do you mean? I just am like, how do you not see it? But like I also didn't see it.

Like I would cling to every little tiny positive thing and be like, he loves me. And people around would be like, no, the fuck he doesn't. Like you're talking about this man like he's God's gift to earth and he doesn't even like you. Yeah. I think that you have been in a situation that was very similar to a situation that I've been in. and you could tell me until you're blue in the face, what are you doing? Stop doing it.

Walk away from it. And until you experience it yourself, like there's some lessons, you just got to learn the hard way. Have you ever been in a situation to where you're solely in it because you think you can fix that person? And you're like, I'm not even fixed myself, but I can fix the things that are wrong with that person.

I've identified what's wrong with them. Like, you can love them so much that they see that they realize, their attention. Yeah. Yeah. But you can't want something more than they want it. My therapist said two's need twos, water seeks its own level. So what you're accepted.

I love that analogy. I do too. And it wasn't until she said that to me that I was fully able to move on. And it was, it's something that I tell people now because it's something that I really, it really changed my perspective on everything. It's like, what does she have that I don't have? Nothing. It's that she doesn't hold him accountable.

You do. and he needs to be with someone who will not hold him accountable because that's what they're good for each other. So when you have higher standards, even if you raise them up slightly, you're still pulling yourself down. Yeah. So you can't, twos can't, twos need to be with twos. So Alessandra just sent something that she saw, what is this on threads? And it says for some men, losing an incredible woman is a relief because now they can keep being mediocre without the pressure to become better. And I absolutely agree with that. I think sometimes you get into situations where you're like, okay, we're kind of aligned in like all of these ways. But then there's parts where you're not

aligned and the parts where you need to be aligned like you're not being served in that relationship, right? And so when you get out of it, they probably feel a sense of relief on their end because the standards that you have are so high for that person that they can't meet those standards. So it's easier for them to at that point, and this sounds bad, but I don't mean it to sound bad. It's easier for them to downgrade. Yes. It's the same thing about water seeking its own level. Because they're not being constantly, it's the same. It's, I'll use men as an example, unfortunately, but it's like the men that are like, she's nagging, she's nagging, she's nagging, she's nagging, she's nagging. Well, because she sees something in you that she thinks that you can raise the bar to

and you're not doing it. It's not nagging. It's that we see more potential in you than you're really capable of. Correct. And I think sometimes until you're in that situation, you don't realize it until, well, for me, what could have been almost too late. But I feel like that, the situation that I'm referencing, I will be very interested to see what that person ends up with. I have another hot take. I feel like there is a healthy level of fighting in a relationship. Like, if you aren't fighting, it's because there is nothing to fight over or for. And I think sometimes when you're wrapped up in a relationship with somebody and there is no fighting, you're like, oh, everything's going swimmingly. Like, we're just making it from one day to the next. And we never fight. And it's so good.

until you get out of it and you're like, we actually should have been fighting over a lot. There has to be a healthy level of communication within a relationship. And that doesn't mean a fight. It could mean a disagreement. It doesn't make either person wrong. No. Yeah. That's the other thing.

I think so often couples are in like this very surface level dynamic. But I don't think that you might necessarily know that you're in a surface level dynamic until you're out of it and you look back on it and you're like, wow, that was really so surface. And sometimes it happens when you get into the next relationship and you're like, wow, this is nothing like that one. And this was everything that one was missing. Agreed. Love the insight.

I want to soak up to sun. I wanted to. Did you read the first one? No. I read the second one. Okay. The first one's kind of long. Okay.

All right, foul play. Okay. Do we have sound effects for foul play? No, but we can make fun. Let's do sound. Let's do meow. meo. Can we okay?

No. About a month ago, I was out for pizza with my husband and our two toddlers. Well, ma'am, that was your first mistake. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. As we were leaving, I felt that familiar, ominous rumble in my gut. I was already halfway out the door, wrangling a two-year-old, and decided it was too much of a production to turn back and use the pizzeria's restroom.

I've also been there. We live less than five minutes away, so I took a deep breath and figured I could white knuckle at home. White knuckle is crazy. I just shit on the side of the highway last week. And then stepped in it. You're back to that? I thought we expired that. I thought

so too. And then life insurance told me they wouldn't cover me until I went to the GI doctor. But I digress. By the time the kids were buckled, Lindsay's like I'm not ready to move on from that. By the time the kids were buckled in, the feeling had miraculously passed. Feeling bold, I asked my husband to swing by

King Cullen so I could grab dino nuggets and snacks from my daughter's play date the next day. Big mistake. The second I stepped into the store, it hit me again full force. I froze in my tracks, terrified that any sudden movement would cause an immediate breach. After a few deep breaths and some very concerned looks from fellow shoppers, the waves subsided just enough for me to shuffle toward the meat department. I was walking with jerky stiff. I was walking with a jerky stiff. I was walking with a jerky, stiff legged gate of a woman fighting for her life. I reached for the dino nuggets on the top shelf, and that's when it happened. Mid-reach, the floodgates opened. I froze, trying to convince myself it wasn't real until I felt the warmth trickling down my leg. Mortified doesn't even cover it. I dropped

everything and waddled toward the single-use restroom. It was a disaster zone. My underwear was a lost cause. It was all over my pants and the smell was lethal. As I'm standing there half-naked frantically trying to salvage my dignity with industrial paper towel. towels. Someone knocks on the door. Of course, of all times for a high traffic bathroom, for a high traffic bathroom moment is when I'm disposing of how biohazardous undergarments. Is this child? Chp.T. Because this is crazy. Like biohazard? No, like, truly, because it's like human defecation. Is it defecate? Yeah, right? Deficate. I cleaned up as best as I could, ditch the evidence in the trash and bolted. I made zero eye contact with the man waiting outside,

but I wasn't fast enough to miss his reaction. To miss his reaction. As the door closed behind him, I heard a violent gagging cough, followed by a horrified, holy shit. I retreated in the car, empty-handed. When I explained to my husband why I was nuggetless and commando, he absolutely lost it. To this day, my four-year-old loves to remind me, mommy, remember when you pooped your pants? That's what babies do.

Love you both. I've honestly been there. Okay, but I feel like you either have to be like one of two women. You either are a constipated bitch like me or you're a pant shitter like you. Yeah. Here's the thing. Knock on fucking wood. I've only shit myself in the car.

I've never shit myself when I am. Like in a public place. In a store or a restaurant or something like that. But what's the feel like it just like comes over you? For me. Like what is they describe the feeling like? I've had I drive over medians to get to a bathroom on the other side of the highway because when I tell you it doesn't hurt my stomach. My stomach doesn't hurt. I just know my asshole is about to open and it will not clench shut no matter how tight I squeeze. But is it like a sudden, like you feel it coming on or it's like a sudden. It's a sudden. Holy fuck I'm about to shit myself. Oh. I just got tested for celiac disease. Okay, do we think that it's normal?

No, I need pelvic floor therapy. Kiel, that's your asshole, not your pelvic floor. No, it's for your asshole as well. The insurance told me. Pelvic floor for your asshole? Yes. Maybe that's why my bowels are going to because of Pilates. It does not matter if it's solid or diarrhea.

When I have to go, I cannot hold it for five minutes. I can barely hold it for 30 seconds. It's shitting out. my ass. That's wild. Do you ever shit on a schedule? No. I am a scheduled shitter. Like, I will wake up in the morning. If I have Jackson on a school day, I will take him to school, go to Pilates, and by the time I come home, that's going to be my bathroom time. And that's like regular, like, every other day occurrence. I don't poop every day. Why are you looking at me like that? I'm just trying to figure my life out. I think you got to. You got to.

tested for celiac, so I think that's a good start. Yeah, they want a stool sample. How do you do that? Shit in a cup. I said, do I have to do that at the lab? But like, how do you get it in the cup? She was like, no, do it at home. How do you get it in the cup? I don't know. I'm not entirely sure. Is it a, are they like big cups or like urine cups? Yurring cups? Oh, you're going to have shit everywhere. Bro. That's foul. And on that note, that's all we have for you guys today. That was all she wrote. If you have not followed us on Coffee Convo's podcast on Instagram, please make sure you follow us there and join our Facebook group to connect with us

in our community. If you have not checked out Kale's tour tickets, you can find those on Kail Lowry.com. Don't forget to get your tickets. And Lindsay's going to make a pop-up at some of these shows. So stay tuned. Can't wait to see you guys. And we'll talk soon. See ya.

Hey, guys. We're back. You asked for it and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour, 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates

and see if we're coming to a city near you on kaleowry.com. And if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place.

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loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Hi there, it's Becca Tobin. I am currently the mother of a four-year-old, which means I have been through it, but I still have questions and maybe even a few answers. from surrogacy to toddler chaos, I have learned a lot and also not nearly enough. That's why I decided to launch Baby Gang, a six-part series from the Lady Gang, where I'm

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