Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Stability is the New Success!

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

In this episode, Kail and Lindsie dive deep into the changing definitions of success, prioritizing peace and stability over chaos. They share on whether a cheater can truly be reformed, the exhausting nature of maintaining fake friendships to avoid conflict, and the emotional struggle of being a twin mom. Plus, they explore the difficulty of maintaining privacy while living in the public eye and navigating an identity crisis after leaving reality TV.Thank you to our sponsors!Chime: Get started at chime.com/coffeeFabletics: Head to Fabletics.com/coffeeconvos and sign up as a VIP to get 80% off everything.Progressive: Visit Progressive.com to learn more!Rocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/COFFEECONVOSRoBody: Find out if you’re covered for free at Ro.Co/COFFEECONVOS. Rx only.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye. I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning and welcome to another episode of Coffee Convo's podcast. How are you, Kitty Cat? I'm doing just fine.

I have all my kitty merch on. Tomorrow, tonight is Hair Wash Day. So I covered it with a hat, to be honest. Last night was Hair Wash Day for me, but I have to tell you something. I will probably never get a Brazilian blowout ever again. Why? I loved it so much, like, when it was fresh and new. Uh-huh.

But do you see how, like, wiry the bottom of my hair is right now? Uh-huh. It's because it's wearing off. So like the texture of my hair in different places is not the same like consistently. And it's driving me fucking insane. I think I've gotten a, when I had hair down to my waist, I had a Brazilian blowout. But I, since I chopped all my hair off, cannot tell you the last time I had like a keratin or Brazilian blowout. People say that like keratin and Brazilian are somewhat the same, but also different.

Because I think one's a protein and like one's not or something. was thinking about possibly chopping my hair off. I wouldn't blame you if you did it. Honestly, we're in the beginning of a new year. If you want to do that, now is the time. Now is the time. I feel like there's just a lot that's been going on. And when I wake up and I realize that it's hair washing day

and I know how long it takes me to dry my hair, why not just chop it? like half of it would be gone. I mean, it's not a bad idea. It'll grow back. Remember when we first, wait, I don't think I had short hair when we first started coffee combos. Did I? No.

I chopped it like after, it was like 2018, I feel like. Like a year after? Yeah. Okay. Like I chopped it off. But then also, no offense to anybody whose name's Karen, like this really doesn't apply. to you, but I don't want to look like a 36-year-old short haircut girl, you know? I had my rebranding shoot and my children told me I looked old.

You think it's because your hair is short? Yeah. So I'm not chopping it then. I haven't seen these photos. I'll show you. Like, I need to see. And I will be honest with you. Okay.

I'm going to send them to you right now. I also had a dream the other night that I was driving with Jackson and this was the night. Do you ever do this like where you'll have a conversation with one of your kids and then you go to bed and so it must be on your mind? So when you go to sleep like you dream about it? Yes. Okay. So that's what happened to me. And I was dreaming that we were driving and I have no idea where we were but it like didn't look like any roads that were around here.

And he was driving on the side of the road like like the ledge of the. of the side of the road. And I was like, please, please, please. And then I woke up and immediately I said, you will not be getting a vehicle or a driver's license at 16 ever. I understand it's just a dream. But it's telling you. It's like your subconscious thoughts and desires come out in your dreams. Yes. It's like it reminded me of those dreams where you dream that like your partner did something. bad to you and then you wake up and you're mad at them for what you dreamed that they didn't do. I had a dream that Ike cheated on me at the college that we both went to, walked in, and he was on a Tinder date. So that was a dream. And I woke up and I was just like,

why would you do that to me? Oh, wait. I've been meaning to ask you about Tinder. Okay, so when you go on TikTok, have you run across the videos where people, they're like videoing and they have a picture printed out of like the Tinder profile. Yes. Like your partner. Yes. And then it's like it's an ad for that app. Okay.

Because I was trying to figure out like how is this happening to all these people? I also, it's not Tinder. It's cheater busters or something like that. And it's like a skit. And then they do the skit to make you think that that's like something that they're really going through. But then it's actually an ad for cheater busters like website. or whatever. Wait, what is cheater busters? I don't actually know. I've never looked at what it is. I've just seen the videos and I fall for

it almost every single time. I'm like, oh, my God, this is so good. And then I, it's like, cheater busters. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I was invested. I have been invested in these videos thinking that they've been real. I had no idea that they were an ad. So like, these people are full blown actors? Have you ever been on Facebook and gone on the Are You Dating the Same Guy Facebook group? Yeah, I'm in one. Yeah, I'm in one too. But what's funny is somebody posted Ike in Are We Dating the Same Guy, like Facebook page?

And I'm thinking to myself, like, literally he has lived in Delaware for X amount of months. And I know for, I have his location. He's never gone back home during that time that I didn't know about. So like you literally, like you did that just to piss somebody off. Like I feel like it was somebody did it that knows that you were in that group that you would see it. Yeah. And also maybe it's someone he used to mess with that was before my time.

And I do not give a single fuck. See, I would care. Wait, you care about who came before you? Yeah. You do? I care in a way that's like I'm nosy. Like I want to, we talked about this. Like I want to know what sort of like traditions you guys had or like whatever.

Like did you guys yell at each other when you fought? like what was your work schedules like when did you see each other what kind of dates did you go on like curiosity but never in a way that like would make me upset or mad like I don't care who came before me and I in fact don't even care who came three months before me you know what I mean like that's pretty soon before me I don't give a fuck well I guess it's more of a situation if you have good communication I feel like in a relationship and that person has communicated about things from their past and you see like a pattern of events that have transpired with multiple people. My question at that point is why you ever dated any of those people and why you continued

to create the same habits over and over again with just like a different body. What do you mean? Elaborate a little bit. Okay. So it's like you have deal breakers in a relationship, right? And you make pros and cons list. And let's say you're with somebody who has has been with multiple people before you, right? And there are common things about those people just through conversation. You know, like you're just in your relationship and you're having conversation and like stuff comes up. And it's like, wait, that same thing that you just described to me that you said about that person, you also said. about the person that was before them and the person that was before them. So now I'm concerned because is that a red flag in you? Like it's a red flag in the people. Right. But also you picked,

like your picker picked the same kind of situations with the same issues that you were dealing with that you claim that you don't want to deal with. I think a lot of people think that about me, that all my situations with all my baby dads are all so vastly different. Yes, I am the common denominator, but the issues in each one were so different. But like for Ike's, for example, I don't, not to put his business out there, but people will call him a cheater. And it's like, I don't give a fuck if he cheated on you five years ago. I don't care. Like, I used to be a cheater too and I don't cheat now. So what the fuck difference does it make? I don't care. It's so interesting that you say that because I get so caught up on it.

Ike and I had a conversation in the beginning of our relationship where we, it was multiple conversations where we talked about who we cheated on and that we were in fact recovering cheaters. So for me, that was enough to understand that we're going into this without, one, holding that against each other and two, with the intention that we both don't want to cheat. So I'm familiar with his past and I know who he's been with and who he cheated on and who he didn't cheat on and things like that. And he knows about mine. And so, like, for me, it was more just like clarity and reassurance that both of

us want the same thing moving forward. So I don't, I do not, I used to get hung up on it when I was, I don't want to say younger because I don't think my age had anything to do with it. I think it was just like life experience. Like at this point, I'm about to be 34. I'm very aware that him and I used to cheat on our significant other or others at the time. And moving forward, I don't want that. And I don't, I don't know. I just don't look at things the same anymore. I don't know. I feel like for me, I am truly like a girl's girl. And so if I have been with someone that has cheated on someone else, I'm like, why did you do that to them? Yeah, but I think the self-awareness of like being able to talk about it, Ike and I both talked about that.

Like he told me everything that he did and I told him the things that I did. And we talked about why. And I didn't have an explanation for why I cheated when I've cheated in the past. right? And he sort of didn't either. And so just knowing that is like, we don't know why we did it. It was just something that we did. Do you think that there was commonalities and all of those situations that resulted in the cheating or no? No. I don't think, I think it was just our age, lack of maturity. Would you agree, babe? Yes? No. Just no. I don't think, I think it was like commonality and me doing it and him doing it or him doing it, most.

multiple times. No, like in the various situations that like y'all have been in and it like resulted in cheating out of those situations were any of those situations similar that ended up resulting in the cheating like with each person. Does that make sense? Okay, y'all, chime is changing the way that people bank fee free and smarter banking built for you. This isn't like old school banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. These are built for you not the 1%. Chime isn't just another banking app. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, giving you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Some old banks still don't even do this. You guys can forget the overdraft fees, minimum

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Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Okay, let's say... Like me cheating on Jordan with Joe. Mm-hmm. And then me cheating on Dom or Malik. Neither of those are similar in any, well, I would say like me cheating on Dom and me cheating on

Malik, I did not take those relationships seriously. I did not, I loved the way they loved me, and I did not feel the same and basically was not, I was a very shitty person to them. Versus the Joe and Jordan thing, it was like I was 18 years old, and I didn't want Joe, but I didn't want him to want somebody. I didn't want him to not want me either. Does that make sense? So it was like, I'm a pretty thing. And then, um, like with Joe, you were a pick me. Yeah, I would say so. But then with like Dom and Malik, I was just a shitty fucking person.

Like I did it because I could. There was no other explanation outside of I knew they would stay whether I cheated or not. Do you think that you would do it today? No. I don't want to be a cheater. I have no desire to cheat. I either want to be in a committed loving relationship or I don't want to be in a relationship at all.

I do think that this is somewhat of a controversial topic because I feel like a lot of people are going to have a lot to say about it. I do think that people who have cheated in the past if they find the right partner that is for them, they can be reformed. I agree. I don't necessarily believe that once a cheater, always a cheater. I don't believe that. I think that situations are so unique in relationships that I don't think it's necessarily a fair thing to say. Do I think that, there are some people that just like habitually will do that because they only care about themselves. Yes, I also believe that to be true. 1,000 percent. But to say across the board, once a cheater, always a cheater, I don't believe that. I really don't. Now, in the past, I would have said, okay, in this specific relationship,

if you cheated, there is a higher potentiality that you will cheat on me in the future. It might not be for 10 years, but I do think that the chances would be higher. don't know that to be a fact, but that was just something that I have said and felt in the past. Like, for example, had I stayed with Elijah, it sounds good that he wouldn't cheat again, right? But I'll tell you the same thing I told him was, you might not cheat for the next 10 years, but in 10 years, you don't, you forget what we went through the first time you did it. And I found out in 10 years from now, it's the same way that people have babies and forget the pain that having the baby was.

You know what I mean? Like labor, the delivery, all of the things. you forget you have another one you're in this bliss same thing for cheating on that you know that's how i used to see it but now i i don't know i to that point that's actually a great point because i think that if somebody has cheated on you and you get back with them that likelihood of them cheating on you again is higher than them being with someone else and not cheating yeah and i still think that could be true i do um i had one relationship that the person was just a habitual cheater.

Like, I don't know what was wrong with the person. Maybe some life insecurities, some, I don't know what it was. But habitually cheated, tried to get me back, stupid for me to go back, but went back, and then did it again. Mm-hmm. I have also been with someone who cheated in the past, but never cheated on me. I don't know. I just, but your knowledge of them cheating in the past almost holds them accountable. Yeah.

Because you're aware, they're aware. You've talked about it. And it's like, hey, like I've had this pattern in the past where I've done X, Y, and Z. And moving forward, I don't want to operate that way. And, like, for me, just somebody being comfortable enough to tell you, like, this is what I did in the past. I don't want to be that person anymore. That alone speaks volumes to me. And I do think that people who want to change can. But when you enter a relationship and you're being secretive about your past and your past relationships or you're not being forthcoming about

why they ended sets you up for more failure than success, in my opinion. I would tend to agree. Okay. So we are going to talk about some kind of hot topics. Number one, stability is the new success. I agree with that more than anything that I have heard probably in one month. No, I agree with you. Stability across the board. Stability in your home life, stability in your relationships, financial stability.

Having mental stability, right, going to therapy regularly or whatever that looks like for you, all of those things will lead to happiness and. success, I wholeheartedly believe that. If you were going to give someone advice on how to truly create stability across the board, like whether it be in your home life, your relationship, your work with your children, what would your advice be to someone on how they can get there? I think first, this is going to sound so cliche and dumb, but like literally doing a brain dumb, right?

Like whether that's like writing it down. or typing it out, but it's like, where do you want yourself to be at the end of 2026, for example? It's like, do you have financial goals? Do you have, do you want to eat at the table with your kids more often? Do you want to, you know, get a new job for a change of pace? Like, whatever that is, it could be a thousand things. It can be two things, right?

Writing it down. I will tell you, stability is one of the hardest things to fight for. Mm-hmm. because I do feel like just as human beings, it's hard. There's so much that's like thrown at us every single day. It's like we're bouncing from a work obligation to maybe a conference for your kids or a work obligation to practice to a game,

trying to do stuff for self-care for yourself. Like this morning, first thing I did was went to Plotties, came home, did some stuff around the house, have already done all of my laundry. got on my recordings. Jackson has a basketball game at 6 p.m. It's really hard to balance all of those things and be fully present and what you need to be present for. And for this year, I want to be able to not have the distractions out. And I know it's, it's really hard, but not to have the distractions away from like what I am presently doing. So if I am presently

recording coffee convos or I'm on a trip to Delaware. My full focus needs to be on that and that feels stable to me. What doesn't feel stable is the, I'm recording and having a conversation with you or I might be on the phone with you and I'm doing 12 other shit things, you know, like trying to make. And we all have 24 hours in a day, right? So it's like how you choose, how you choose to use it. Like we have the same 24 hours.

But I just want to be intentional about the time. And I think that that creates a form of stability. I would agree with you. I would agree with it. It's really hard. I just feel like if you get to a place where, and for me, it's my faith. Like, I know that God's got me, right? So whatever's meant to be will be.

I know you believe in like Buddha, right? Yeah. Like manifesting stuff and all those things. I feel like you can find peace and stability while manifesting and slowing down. That's what I hope. One day I hope that I can do the same. The next question is, how has your definition of success changed over the years and I feel like mine has just drastically changed.

I feel like the success that we're all striving for, whether we want to admit it or not, is not in the financial aspect of making millions of dollars. Maybe it's success is being at peace and being content. And I do think that there's a difference between being content and being complacent. Being complacent, you have no goals and aspirations. You're just complacent. No looking at it. into what's next, right? But content is you're happy where you're at. You're content. You feel good

about where you're at. You're not worried about the next move. You're not like maybe you're comfortable financially. You're not making millions, but you're comfortable financially. You don't have any, you know, pressing issues. I feel like to me, that's like success. I feel like you and I both kind of exited reality TV close around the same time. So I think both of our view of success exiting that looks very different than what it looks like today being years removed. The facade of reality TV and yours is way less of facade because y'all were a docu-series. So pretty much, I mean, yes, were there edits and stuff like that that maybe you've disagreed with. I kind of feel like for a very, very long time and I still struggle with it so much of attempting

to like live this life of perfection. And that felt like success to me. Like if I can execute this and what feels like perfection to me, I was successful. I only, I would say this year realized that my success and the level of success does not add in flow with whether or not I'm on TV. I had thought before like I have nothing without being on TV. I am nobody. I have no, nothing to offer. And so I have... Yeah, I have struggled with that since I left in...

2026 will be four years since I left the reality TV. And I just never... I will say to this day, I'm proud of myself for leaving on my own terms. I'm proud of myself for leaving before the ratings dropped completely off. I am proud of myself for living through 13 years of reality TV where we were paid fucking pennies to the millions and millions and millions of dollars that Viacom and MTV made. But I for so long was like, like even now, trying to find my identity outside of reality TV has been really challenging because I don't know. I'm not a content creator.

I'm not an influencer. I'm literally just a girl who was on TV. Success to me today, I feel like would be very similar to success for people. who are listening to this. Like, it's a small thing, right? Being able to have a home cooked meal with your family at home, being able to get into a clean bed,

being able to take your kids to do stuff that doesn't really cost that much, like a petting zoo or pup putt or stuff like that, watching movies, not having communication with a lot of people. I communicate with maybe four people, and that honestly,

feels like success to me. No, truly, like the less people that I'm in contact with, the happier I am. And that's no shot at anyone in particular. Like, truly, I don't mean it to hurt anyone's feelings. But the less people I talk to, the less drama there is literally. Like, Ike is in the background nodding his head. And I literally cannot express that enough. Like the days that I, for example, on Sunday when the babies went to Elijah's house, it was just me like three kids. And they're all self-sufficient. And so they were all doing an activity, whatever they were doing. I sat down, I read. I did not. I don't think I texted. I maybe texted two people that whole day. And it was just one of those things where it's like, okay, nothing, I can't, nothing could have

happened. Nobody did anything. There was no drama. There was no nothing. And so I felt so at peace. That felt like success to me. The other day, we also. I had all seven of my children at the dinner table together. That felt like success to me. And so just I don't know if it's the age. I don't know if it's realizing things are shifting. I don't know what it is. I don't know.

I think it's really stepping into your own. And I feel like I've watched you do that over the last year. I feel like it's been a very hard year. But I've watched the shift. And I think that you think that you don't have peace. but there's sometimes that I see you and I will be having a bad day and I'm like, I wish I could do that. Like, I know you're just like reading your Kindle.

Less is more. Less is more. Less is so much more. All right. So you guys know that killer sports is opening soon and I'm so excited about all the things I got from Fabletics. When I signed up as a new VIP with Fabletics, I got 80% off everything and I thought I was going to be one of those too good to be true kind of things.

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And we've got an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Get 80% off everything when you sign up as a VIP. Just head to fabletics.com slash coffee combos to take a quick style quiz and be sure you select coffee combos. when prompted to unlock your 80% off. That's fabletics.com slash coffee combos. Okay, the next question is, what used to feel exciting that now feels exhausting? Going out, going out, going out in any way, shape, or form. Going outside of my house is not a fun time for me ever.

What used to feel exciting but now feels exhausting? Fake friendships. I think friendships in general. I feel like I used to, have you ever been like in friendships with people that you know, like, it's not genuine? Yep. And like they don't love you. Yeah. But you still hang out with them.

Yes. And I don't know why I have done that. And I'll be honest with you, I still do. In so many ways, I want them to prove me wrong. Like I want it to be like, okay, no, this is genuine. And, Kail, you were wrong for once. but I know in my heart of hearts what their intentions are and I also like it's exhausting to continue to be friends with them but like I have to learn the hard way.

Why do you do it? Why have you done it? I genuinely think it is to avoid conflict. Yeah. Literally to avoid conflict because it's better to fake the friendship than for them to be a troll and hate your guts all over the internet. But then that's also conflict. You know what I mean?

I had this conversation with my therapist literally last, sometime either last December or January. It's been almost a year. And I was telling her, you know, like I stay in these friendships with these people, but it's not really friendships because it's more of like an acquaintance, but I kind of make them feel like they're my friend, but like I don't really view them as a friend. And why? And she's like, why don't you remove yourself from that situation? If that's how you feel, remove yourself from that situation. Okay, yeah, but if I do that, I know the conflict that's going to come along with that.

So I just don't do it. I'm avoiding it like the plague. But she made a good point. And she was like, well, by you staying in it, that's causing internal conflict with yourself. I have struggled with this for so long. And the only person that I really feel like I've been able to talk to about it is Kristen because she knows who and she knows what. I have stayed friends with people because they are the type of people that if I remove myself

and maybe I didn't do anything to them or anything. super negative, but they will be the T-page trolls that, like, say horrible things about me, they will become one of them. And to me, I didn't do you that dirty. I don't, I didn't do you dirty at all. And I don't think that this is ever going to make sense to people who are not in our position. I don't know for sure, but like. I feel like other people can relate because I feel like other people probably operate the same way regardless of like what their job is. I mean, it could be with a colleague at work. I don't know, babe.

Do you operate like that? No. I don't know other people that operate like that, Lindsay. I really don't. You operate the same as me, right? Yes. Like, I would rather keep a friendship that I know is not good for me than to deal with the conflict of the fallout.

Because you've seen firsthand people that I fall out with. It's always me leaving them, but somehow they get to the internet and people think those friends dropped me. every single time I have dropped somebody else a relationship or a friendship, they all of a sudden I was this horrible person. I was never good to them. I, you know, they stopped being friends with me. So for me, it's like just keep them around so I don't have to deal with the lies.

What I found to be the easiest way to eliminate that to remain authentic within your own self is to slowly distance. Yes. I would say slowly distancing so that it's like a more growing apart than completely dropping them. Yeah. Because the second you completely drop them, they will go on the internet and make up, they will spin it so that the narrative suits them. Like for example, I can give you an example of someone that I have so much love for this person as a human being. I don't like a lot of like the life decisions, but like to the core, I know this person.

has a very good heart. And it just became a situation that I didn't feel like it was healthy for me to remain in that friendship because I no longer aligned with the things that these people do. And it was over a period of time, right? Like, I was, when I was more aware of myself, I kind of started watching habits and things I was kind of like picking up on. And I'm like, you know what? That just like no longer alliance with me. So I ran into this person the other day and I was with David. And she sends a text and says, sorry I was such a wreck when I saw you yesterday.

I've been in my, I've been in my feels. I didn't respond. Then I get a text that says, happy for you that you and David are working things out. I sent a text back and said, thank you. Like, I'm not completely cutting you off. I'm always going to be nice whenever I see you in person. I genuinely love you as a human being. I don't align with your life choices and I don't condone them, frankly. But I can love you from a distance and I'm just going to keep my space. Why is it that, okay, so, but did you fall out with them at any point? No. No. I just slowly kind of started distancing. Because I'm just wondering why people always feel the need to like go flip the script for me.

but they don't do that. Not that I wish that on you. I don't wish that on you. But like, I don't see it happen to other people. I think it's because you love, like, so hard and you invite people in your life in such a different way. And I think it genuinely has to do with the fact that you didn't grow up with siblings. And you don't really have family. I mean, like, yes, you have your sister and your niece. And, um, but I think that just for my observation, from what I've seen, like, with your friends that are around home. People are always like in your house and it's very family-like. And so I think because of that, the fallouts are so much worse.

My situations are never like that because, yes, I will go and hang out with whoever it is, but it kind of like stops there. And then I go home. Like you're inviting these people into your home on a regular basis. That saying keep your friends close, but your enemy's closer. So are they my friends or are they my enemies? Because I think the only ones that can really hurt you are people that you've loved and lost. Like, I don't-

I think genuinely loved all those people at some point. I just, like, when I think about you and like we have a friendship and more business partners, like if we were to fall out and you and I have fought like siblings before, never once did I think about going to the internet and talking about it. Never. Would never do that. probably cry for days because I've done that. Well, someone said that to me.

They were like, Kail, when you fall out, why don't you just respond and talk about it? And I'm like, because the other thing is that a lot of the people that do it to me don't have a huge following or it's my following that follows them. It doesn't hold the same way. You guys can literally ruin my life and take away brand deals or ways for me to make money. Me going on the internet and talking about them doesn't change their livelihood. It doesn't change the income they bring in. doesn't talk like it's not the same well and then there's also a risk like anybody can talk and say pretty much whatever they want to about a public figure but if a public figure was doing it

to somebody who's not a public figure the implications for us would be far greater than the implications on them no doubt no fucking doubt okay the next one is are you choosing consistency over chaos right now and i feel like you're choosing both i'm choosing choosing both because chaos is my brand unfortunately that's just who I am um I think at the big age of almost 34 I'm not I am who I am right but um consistency in the chaos right and being chaotic so both I feel like um consistency and and definitely an attempt for peace but not afraid for the chaos right like if it comes it comes and I'm going to be honest about it okay it's to be is something that you had to learn to appreciate.

Yes. And I have talked to Dr. Drew. I've talked to my therapist. And the chaos in my life at times has been sort of like chasing the dragon, that term that they use for people who have been on drugs is like you're chasing that feeling from the first high. And so the highs and lows of my life always was it's like all of the excitement, good or bad, because my body doesn't know.

difference of something happening and then, you know, the down and then the backup and then the, like the excitement of all of that. And so when everything sort of just levels out, I'm like, wait, what's going on? Yeah. Like, I don't have anything to look forward to. I'm not anxiously checking my phone. If there's drama online internet, shit like that. And so like now I, that's all I want. Is it just to be like this? I feel like, um, if you have been through highs and lows in your life, which most people have at some point, you've been, you've had highs and you've had lows. Sometimes when the highs last, like the, sometimes when the lows last like really long, it's almost like a negative adrenaline, but then once you get like leveled back out,

you don't know how to exist like on that level field because it's been so low for so long. It's like, okay, well, when's the next low coming? because I operate actually better in that situation. And you have to do a lot of therapy to get out of that. Well, so then do we think chaotic and controversial kale coming back is actually me chasing the high of being chaotic again? No, I don't. I think that a lot of that is just truly who you are at your core. You're almost like in an identity crisis right now.

I am absolutely in an identity crisis. I mean, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just saying like it is an identity crisis. because you are chaotic. Even when I take my meds, I'm chaotic. I know. But I think it's just who you truly are to your core. Like, that is your being.

I'll take it. This is who I am. If you take it or leave it. And I think you're going to have a chaotic daughter as well. Valley is. I think she is kale 2.0 brewing. She, but she's like the, she's going to be the more stable of us, you know what I mean? Because she was all the traumatic childhood that made me so chaotic.

She'll just be chaotic by choice and by having me as a mom, right? Like not the instability type of chaotic. The way she will respond will be so different because you are giving her things that you never had and almost like somewhat vicariously like living through her little world. Wait, can I, can we talk about the twins for a second? Because I want to, ask other moms of twins for help. I took verse to a pediatric ophthalmologist for his eyes. And it was a two hour drive there and a two hour drive back. And the appointment was just, it was like a small appointment. But anyways, it ended up being like almost an entire like daytime day. That was the first and longest time that Valley and Verse have ever been separated.

I'm having a really, I'm going to cry thinking about it. it's not emotional. I don't know why I'm upset. Other twin moms, how to separate their twins. Like, I'm so scared of them not having a twin bond and relationship if I separate them. So, like, when is a good time? Like, I don't know why that's so emotional for me. Like, I could not wait to get back from that appointment because I was together. Yeah, it was like, Verges has never been away from his twin.

for this long. And I was like, so Kristen was in the, in the hospital at that time. It was like an hour from where we were. And so it's like, about halfway closer to from like how far we are now. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to try to come see you if I can. But by the end of the appointment, I was like, I just need to get the twins back together. Like it was, am I like putting my own trauma on them? Like, I don't know. Coffee Convo's podcast is brought to you by progressive insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some Cash. Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it

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set it and it's like the set and forget approach. You guys can let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com slash coffee combos. That's RocketMoney.com slash coffee Combos, RocketMoney.com slash coffee combos. I mean, people have actually written into us because you and I talked about, you know, separating them from class and stuff and other twin parents have written in saying, like, you'll know because the school will tell you, you know. They should be separated? Yeah.

You know, I don't know. If I was a twin mom and I sent my little babies off to kindergarten and they, had been together for that long of their life and they couldn't be in the same class, I would be devastated. They're still in the same room. And like the kids last night when I was putting everybody to bed, we were talking about switching rooms again because as siblings, I don't know. This is just what I'm experiencing right now.

I obviously have no experience of my own. But like with there being as many boys as there is, at different times in their lives, they're going to be closer to different brothers. So right now, while we're living in. a house that doesn't necessarily suit us anymore, there has to be room sharing. And so we're going through like, who's going to share and whatever. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, Rio and Verse, you know, once they get to a certain age, they will probably share because they're the closest in age. And Verse and Valley are boy girl. And I do believe that they should not share a room

past a certain age. But right now, they're two and they share Valley's room still. And I'm like, I like, I just can't imagine a world where they're in their, they're set. separated. Like it just, and I think part of it is when the, when I did the first parent teacher conference for them, their teacher told me that like, because Valley is so, uh, we'll say strong-willed and verse is more Elijah and very quiet into himself. She said that Valley fiercely protects him. And ever since then, it's been in my head that I can't separate them that like, it's almost like, well, verse can't stick up for himself. But I literally watch him stick up to Rio every single day. But then I'm sure in your mind, you're like, am I setting verse back by having her be

his protector, his whole life too, you know? Yeah. And so I'm just like struggling with that. And I don't know. I need a. And I don't know if there's a difference too for like same sex twins versus opposite. Like Elijah's mom is a twin, an identical twin to a girl, obviously. His first cousins, identical twin boys, identical twin girls, Ike's brother and sister are twins. So like there's lots of twins. And then Taylor, my hairstylist and friend, she's a twin to a boy. But it's like, I don't know. Maybe I should just ask all the twins. Yeah, I think you should definitely ask all the twins. And I bet you anything based off of like the boy girl situation will be different than like the girl, girl and the boy boy. Babe, did Jules and Jasmine do every?

everything together? No. No. Do you ever remember them sharing a room? Never. She had her own room. And then you and Jules together. And they're not close, though.

See, that makes... They have that... Twin bond. Yeah, but other than that, I mean... He said that his twin brother and sister are not... And I know, too, because Jules told me they're not close. But, like, that freaks me out. And then I have Taylor, who's a twin with a boy, and her and her brother are like this.

That's so great. Do you think that they play with the same people at school? Or is the teacher already noticing, like, friend group differences? There's friend group differences. Really? Yeah. So what type of kids does she play with versus who he plays with? Verse is so much like Elijah in personality.

I know verse doesn't look like anybody. It's so weird because, like, Valley and VIII. Rio are literally identical. Yeah. Verse is Elijah's personality through and through. So vary to himself. He'll play next to somebody, but he doesn't want to play with somebody. Yeah, he'll like parallel play where like Valley is like in it.

And she's, but Valley is also the teacher said she's like a little assistant. Like that's the teacher's assistant. Like she's a teacher's pet. Mm-hmm. I could see that. I could see that. A mess. I don't know.

I would have. have such a hard time separating them. But I also feel like all of your kids are so close. Yeah. Oh, my God. When I, my kids get so upset because sometimes we'll be at soccer or something. They'll be like, are the twins home? Do the twins go to beds? Are the babies asleep? Did they go to sleep yet? Oh, mom, why are they asleep already? I didn't get to see them. And they're like, get so upset. And I'm like, honestly, I could get used to this. I'm not ready for when they're all of age to fight with each other. And then there's seven of them fighting versus just two of them at a time, I'm not ready. Two of your kids fight. Yeah, Lux and Creed fight every day.

Yeah. Oh, my God. They probably would beat each other up if I wasn't supervising. Knocked down, drag out. Okay, so next one is, do you believe that privacy is a form of peace? Yes. The less people know, the better. And it's really hard, though, with our jobs. Yes. It is so difficult because it's like, what's the secret versus what's private? And then what do you owe the public versus what you don't owe them and you want to keep it private? Do you want it to be known but private? Okay, but if you give somebody an inch of your life, now they are full-blown expecting all of your privacy and business to be put out there. So it's, for us, it's very different. That's why when I got back with David,

I let people know immediately. I talked about it on the Southern Tea because I'm like, I am tired of seeing these comments of people being like, oh, well, she's not being transparent. When I finally said that I broke up with him, or I guess he and I mutually broke up, I don't really know what happened. But when I finally said that, it had already been like months whenever I said it. And so sometimes I think that people don't realize that we also are human beings and like we need to process stuff before we talk about it. And it's not that we are trying to necessarily be private or secretive about it. It just might not be at the top of our mind to divulge to the general public yet. The next one is, do you think social media creates pressure to explain yourself?

And I feel like, yes. Yes. It absolutely does. But is it social media or is it the way that we consume social media? Both. It's both because subconsciously or consciously when you're consuming other people's content, whether you want to admit it or not, you're thinking about the ways you relate to this person or don't relate to this person. So that creates pressure. Well, should it be this way or that way

instead of what I'm already doing? And then for me, it's been, you know, I'll use Avery Woods as an example. I think she became big on TikTok, right? Like she wasn't big before that. She wasn't on TV. So I'm like, okay, well, I was on TV. I already had this following. Why am I not moving to California and doing X, Y, and Z? I don't want to move to California. It was just like, an example, right? But looking at the way that certain creators create content or do this or have this and have that, it's like, how are they doing all of that? And I'm over here. Like, how do I get that? But I think it goes back to the conversation we're having about stability and giving all to one avenue, right? So when you're comparing yourself, because that's essentially what it is. Like,

it's a comparison game against someone else. And what you are minimizing about yourself is that you have all of these things going on. So you're giving a little to this and a little to that and a little to that. And then that person is just creating TikToks all day. So their entire world in regards to a business. But I mean, I would venture out to say TikTokers, like, that's their life. Yes, or doing, you know, not only for a job and a paycheck, but they're documenting everything that they're doing every single day. That's one avenue.

So when you're seeing that and you're comparing yourself to that, you also have to take a step back and say, okay, well, I have three shows. I have seven kids. I am just a girl that was on TV that likes to make TikToks. So, like, that's another thing. You want to have a home life. you have a book club. So all of those things and you're comparing yourself to someone who's doing one of those things. And that's not discrediting them at all. No, at all. I don't mean, I don't mean that that way. I have the same 24 hours, the same energy will say, and I have to

spread it across all of these things where they have this, they have the same 24 hours and the same energy and it's going to their kids and creating content, two things. True. So I just think that sometimes it's easy to get in a comparison game being like, okay, well, I have all of these things, but like I also want that one. And you are minimizing what you're doing by comparing yourself to someone. And I'm not discrediting whoever you're comparing yourself to by saying, oh, well, they're only doing the one thing. No, they're just putting all their eggs in that one basket. Right. Right. So I think that you have to get to a point where you're like, okay, if I want to put all my eggs in one basket, you can and you would be doing that same thing. Okay, so I saw something on TikTok

yesterday and it said, if you had an opportunity to make $120,000 a year and you're fully remote, or $240,000 a year and you go to the office every day, what are you choosing? The comments were wild. and it's based off of truly, like, people making the decision of the 120,000 and the stay-at-home job, they're choosing that to travel less because they don't want to commute to a job and probably to protect their peace to some degree, but they're cutting their income in half. More people chose the 120? 120. Interesting.

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I have always felt that I'm more fulfilled when I'm physically working somewhere else and I'm more stressed out when I work at home. However, in the last eight years, not including MTV, just including the podcast, I have had, I have been, had the privilege to work outside of the home with the flexibility of working in home. So for me, it would be the, the latter, the 240 for going to the work. Because if it's fairly local, I'm going to choose that not because of the money, but because I feel like I operate better outside of the home. So the girl in video said that most of the people she suspected that would choose the 120 working. working in the home fully remote were likely Gen Ziers. Oh.

Mm-hmm. I believe that. I actually, and did you know, first of all, I want to expand on the fact that I think I'm a dad. I think I'm a provider. I think that I'm not nurturing the same way that like, like, I'm the provider. I'm the sole financial provider. I am all of, I'm the man. So I have lived in a masculine energy for my entire life, survival, work, TV, relationships, all of the things.

And so that's why I think that I just thrive better outside of the home. But second to that, you said, Gen Zier's. Oh, I only have one Gen Zer. I have, Elliot is Gen Z. And that very much I could picture him having like a remote job and being totally fulfilled. the rest of my kids, Lincoln, Lux, Creed, Rio and the twins are all Gen Alpha. I just wonder what that generation is going to become. Like, as we grow up, you know.

I'm fascinated because we see the difference, the stark contrast between boomers, millennials, and then millennials to Gen Z, right? So like those three. But what the fuck is Gen Alpha going to look like? And I have six of them. I'm scared for you. I want to know what the characteristic. and like the, because like they say COVID babies are all, they sort of have like this sort of,

and Creed is a COVID baby. Creed is one of my most challenging children and it's a blessing and a curse because I think it could take him very far in life. And I also think it could go the opposite way if it wanted to. I would be very, very curious to see what Gen Alpha, what the plan is there. Wait, what is Jackson. Jackson is Gen Alpha. Oh, God.

Well, that generation. is unhinged. I just wonder what that's going to look like because like Gen Z, the difference between millennial and Gen Z is so funny to me because a lot of it is because they grew up in like tech worlds and having technology at their fingertips everywhere they go. Like I watched a TikTok yesterday and it was two girls talking about like their school experience from middle school to high school and all of like we had a cow cart where it was like computers on wheels or whatever.

It went from classroom with classroom. We went to a computer lab. We had to write notes. We had to write five paragraph essays by hand. You weren't typing them. What does that look like for Jen Alpha? I don't know because part of me, I love like some old school mentality, right? Like bringing cursive back to the classroom, handwriting papers, focusing on penmanship,

like stuff like that. I feel like it's so important because if you look. at, I could probably pull school papers from myself and I was meticulous when it came to penmanship. Like where my letters went, if it touched the top of the paper to the bottom of the, you know, line. If you saw some of Jackson's papers, it's because they are on technology 24-7 that they are not really required to write. Not only that. It's not even just like the fact that they can't write. It's that, but it's also their attention span. It's like we're creating a crisis of attention span being short into seconds and sometimes less than a minute.

Right. Like that's terrifying to think about. And my kids recently did a tour at a private school. And Lincoln, I was so impressed with Lincoln after just one shadow day. And he got in the car and he's telling me what he learned and he looked at us and he said, the difference in the education where I am and where I was, like where he, where he is currently going versus where he could go, he noticed it in one shadow day. That's crazy.

And I was just like, that's insane. Like, because they just, you have to put your phones in a box. You can't have, you don't have Chromebooks at your fingertips at that school where in the public. And I'm not saying one's better than the other. I'm just saying like the difference. It's fascinating, truly. I do not and cannot and will not get behind doing test, multiple choice test on a computer. I don't want to do any tests on a computer.

I don't think any test should be done on a computer, but all tests. But like what is at this point for Gen Z, Gen Alpha, Gen fucking Beta. what is the point of a test because they're going to be able to Google stuff on chat GPT, on their watches, on the computer. Like, why do we need to AI is taking over? So what is the purpose of them even taking a test? If they don't have to memorize anything, they can use a computer and technology at all. They'll get a job one day and not need to know this information.

They can just Google it. Well, that's some people's argument for saying that, you know, school just needs to be phased out because of AI. And I mean, I disagree with that. Of course. But like, I understand why they have gotten to that. The point. Yes.

I get the point is like, what, okay, let's educate. But why are we even having them take tests? Because at one point, y'all were saying we can't use calculators because we won't have them in the real world. And here we are. And we are beyond calculators at this point. We have cars driving themselves and, you know, AI all over the place and, you know, whatever.

And there's a whole controversy on book talk right now. now with authors using AI to write their books. Oh, really? Yes, it's this huge controversy because some authors are getting accused of using AI when they don't use AI, but some authors are fully using AI to write their entire manuscripts. And then the reader community is like, we don't want to pay for AI. And then some of the readers are like, well, we don't really give a fuck. If we don't know, we don't care.

And then other authors are, like I said, getting accused when they didn't do it. And so it's like there's no winning here, but like tests at the, this point? Like, why are we even taking them? But is it that kind of like, like in the workplace, if you're not a good author, like you should not be releasing these novels. Like, if anybody can do it and we're using AI to do it, not everybody's meant to be an author. So I feel like it's taking away from the ones who are actually doing it and their credentials. Personally, if I was an author, I would be pissed off if I knew that somebody released a book and it was a bestseller and it was AI? I think using AI as a tool and not as this complete solution, the end-all, be-all, I think is one thing.

It's sort of like college degrees today. It's like if everyone has them, they're not super useful and there's no real point. So it's kind of a catch-22. It's like it can be helpful in so many ways, but it's also horrible for the environment. It's terrible for our brain. Like I just, but it makes life easier. So it's like six-seed. Not 6-7. The kids were reading at the weekend, and I was like, could you not? Oh, that's Creed's favorite thing, a 6-7. Yesterday on the football game, it was at the bottom of, I don't know if it was ESPN or whatever it was, but at the bottom of the screen, it was like this game score and this game score, and then it was a separate game on the TV. And it said the score was 6-7, and then the next one on the bottom was 7-6.

And so Creed was like, six, seven, six, seven. And I'm like, oh, my God. But it is really cute, like the little ones that are doing it. But once you get past like a certain age and you're doing it, I'm like, can you all just stop? Like, I don't want to hear Elliott say six, seven. Yeah, like, please don't. And on that note, we have foul play. What up, kitty gang.

Let me get straight to it. After being laid off and unemployed for a year, I finally landed a job. On my first day, I showed up 30 minutes early. So I sat in the parking lot on my phone with my husband for about 15 minutes, telling him I was excited but a little nervous and needed to fart. We've all, we've all finished out of a little nervous and needed to fart. Well, I walked in and the receptionist calls my new manager to come down into the lobby. As I'm waiting, I decided to run to the restroom before I get my day started. I went into the stall and got ready to empty my bladder. I pulled the I pulled down the undies and realized it

definitely wasn't a fart. I literally sharded and didn't realize. I panicked and didn't know what to do, so I pulled them off, grabbed a bunch of toilet seat covers, rolled the shitty panties in and threw them in the trash. I grabbed a bunch of paper towels, clean myself up and went about my day, Commando. I immediately called my husband to tell him what happened. I was so embarrassed and wanted to walk out. But here I am, still here, and nobody knows what happened. Hope you enjoyed the story. Well, if you're like me, you would have just sharded your pants because I don't wear underwear. A shart is truly like one of the most diabolical things that I can think of in life. I can't say that I've ever sharded. I've definitely sharded. Remember that time that I told you that I think

I was like in kindergarten or first grade and I had like stomach bug and I sharded in my mom's backseat of her Honda. No, I don't remember that story, but like stomach bug sharding is not the same as just everyday sharding. I've never sharded myself. I've either full blown shit myself or just farted. I'm never sharded. Wait, somebody texts me the other day and was like I shit myself in the car and I so bad wanted to be like, that is my friend Kail. She's just like about you. I did not want to tell your business like that. I tell my own business, Lindsay. If you ever need to call me the way that I called Becky,

to ask her about disimpacting herself and you're like, hey, can you tell us what to do if you shit yourself? Like, I will be honest. Oh, my God. All right, guys, that's all we have time for today. Thank you for always supporting our show. Please subscribe and review on the Apple Podcast app, follow and rate on Spotify, or listen wherever you get your pods.

For our latest merch, visit coffeeconvospodcast.com to shop. Full video episodes are available on Kail's Patreon at Patreon. on.com slash kale Lowry. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community. We hope that you guys have a fantastic week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya. Thousands of free movies and TV shows.

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