Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - The Cost of Estrangement

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

CC439: Kail shares emotional details of her recent visit with her estranged father, uncovering family secrets and confronting the truth about her narcissistic mother. The conversation shifts to the alarming realities of school safety, as Lindsie recounts an incident with Jackson. Finally, the everlasting dilemma on whether to expand the family again, exploring the complexities of being an only child versus having siblings. Lindsie and Kail talk about the importance of social connections for an only-child and the profound impact of sibling bonds, even across age gaps.Thank you to our sponsors!Beam: Go to shopbeam.com today! Limited time pricing of up to 35% off PLUS 2 free gifts when you use the code COFFEE at checkout.Progressive: Visit Progressive.com to learn more!Thrive Causemetics: Save 20% off your first order at Thrivecausemetics.com/COFFEEWayfair: Visit Wayfair.com or get the Wayfair mobile app.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is coffee convoes with Kail Lowry and Lindsay Crissly. I really want you to be in your feels, Kail. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye.

I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning, Sugar Plum. How are you? Good morning. You know how I know you're in Texas? How?

Because you're drinking out of a mason jar. Yeah. I did make it down to Texas last week and it was all came together very quickly. I know because we were talking about it just days before it happened. I wish that we lived closer, you and me, because the amount of shit that I just needed to like unpack since I've been here. Like all my favorite people live in different states, and it's been really, really hard. Like Kristen in Pennsylvania, you and Georgia, and then Sterling in Texas, thankfully, she lives here. But yeah, I wish we lived closer because we would just be, I would just, I think I would be unpacking all of this in a very different way if my friends were closer.

I tend to agree with that. And I say all the time, like, I feel so lonely where I'm at because my closest friends are not here. like regularly and when I say regularly, like once every two weeks, I have like a men TV. No, and I don't we've, I don't think we've ever talked about that. Like obviously our listeners know that are we don't live in the same state. Kristen lives in Pennsylvania. Like listeners know that, but I think that there is something to be said about truly how lonely this life is. Like from like not as a mom because that's its own separate loneliness, but like truly I think I said it to Sterling the other day.

I literally, like, you're in Georgia, Kristen's in Pennsylvania, Alessandra's in New Jersey, my friend Tony's in Vegas. Like, everybody is, no one is close. And there is, it's very lonely. It's very lonely. And the communications over text message just don't hit the same way of being able to go over to your girlfriend's house and just like unpack all your shit. Yep.

1,000%. And I don't think we've ever talked about that on here. And I don't think it's like a unique situation to us even. Like, I'm sure people that don't have a podcast, house feel the same way, like, with their best friends. And, like, I don't think I paid too much attention to it for so long because I would just, like, fly everywhere. Like, Kristen would come see me and very occasionally, I'd go see her. But, like, I, what do we do? Like, what do you do in a situation like that? Well, by the time this episode airs, we will all be together for the second

time in two years at the same time of year. Yes. So I'm like, okay, well, now we're creating a September pattern. I hope that that stays because, so I had your birthday. I should, I, I, I, I, I, saw something and thought of you and I had Rebecca ship it to you. And I completely didn't remember. And then I was like, I texted today and I was like, I need my house cleaned because you're coming to Delaware. And you've never been to Delaware. You're like, I need my house clean because this bitch is a germans. Also, I got a lip flip so that I didn't have to get lip in like filler. I have this little bump from the injection. And then with this being crooked, it's like weird. My mouth is so weird. You're just in a healing state. You're just in a healing

state and you need to remain comfortable in your healing state until you're fully healed. But I want to backtrack a little bit your trip to Texas. I don't know if you're talking about that somewhere else, which is totally fine. But you said that you're like not feeling your best. So is there anything that you can like tell us? Because we have not called up. The part where I feel good was coming here and going to see Raymond. Like that was and I went back in full.

I was like, I don't know if I should do it. And then I was supposed to go see. I came out on Thursday. And then we were supposed to go see him on Friday. And it fell through. My sister and my aunt had a misunderstanding. And I guess I had a misunderstanding too. So then we planned for Monday, which was yesterday when, whatever, the timeline.

So we went yesterday to go see him. And like driving from driving to his house. I was like, I don't, what is the purpose of this? Like, why am I doing this? I have read comments that people are saying that I think I said it to you before. Like, I'm selfish. Why would I wait till his deathbed? Like, things like that.

And no one truly understands until they're in that position. And I didn't know how I was going to feel. Like, no one knows how they're going to feel when they have an estranged family member and you find out they're dying. Like, you don't know how you're going to feel. I could say until I'm blue in the face and I have that I will never go to either one of my parents' funerals. you know what I mean like but you don't really know so I'm I literally we were pulling into his driveway and I was like yeah Chris I was coming up like I shit you not Chris I was coming up with every fucking excuse not to come here so like my aunt called me on Friday on the way home from picking the kids up from school and I'm like okay like I could maybe go next week but really like the week after that is like better for me the kids have like just every fucking excuse under the book under the sun. So then I get here, I'm like, okay, like, I think I can do this. And then we're pulling into his driveway. And my sister, she's in the car with me. And I'm like, thinking

to myself, like, why the fuck are we doing this? Like, this man can kiss my ass. Like, why am I doing this? But we were already there. My aunt had made time. My sister made time. I guess my aunt told my dad we were coming. So like, it needed to happen. So I walk, I'm already crying before the door even opens. And I literally, the last thing I said before I walked in the house was, I'm not going to cry for this. He can kiss my ass. Like, he doesn't deserve my tears. He doesn't deserve.

I cried the whole fucking time. The whole time. But I feel like it's something that you needed to do. And I'm so thankful that you had your sister and your aunt to be able to be like accountability partners in that. Because that was obviously a release that needed to happen. I agree with you. But you know what shocked the shit out of me that really fucking chapped my ass? I don't know if you guys remember me flying there on 16 and pregnant.

I was actually 17 years old. I flew there. My mom shut off my cell phone on the way there. So this, mind you, this was my first time ever flying. I had never flown before. I was 17 years old. I had flown one time to Mexico. Second time flying in my whole life. My mom shut off my cell phone. If it was not for the MTV camera crew, I do not know how I would have gotten from the Philadelphia airport to my dad's physical house, like his actual house, right? Somehow get in touch. I don't know if the, I don't know if the, I don't, I can't remember if the camera crew reached out to Joe's parents, but Joe's dad ended up overnighting me a cell phone on their plan. So my mom shut off my cell phone. Do you know what my dad told me while I was there?

Wait, was this on 16 and pregnant? No. They didn't play any of this on 16 and pregnant. They should have because I feel like that, like, I have come to the conclusion that Susie hates me. Susie has always hated me. Susie resents me. Susie does not. She turned off my cell phone going there.

And my dad told me that he talked to my mom on the phone while I was there. So were you under the impression that your mom and dad, like, didn't have each other's contact information? That's the impression you were under. Every time, from the time I was like around Lincoln's age, like somewhere between, I want to say 12, but it could have been like 10, 11. Somewhere around that age, I really started asking questions about my dad. My mom told me until she was blue in the face, I don't know where he is.

I don't know how to contact him. I don't know where he is. I don't have good a phone number for him. I have no idea. I have no idea. I have no idea. That was a lie the entire time. It was a lie the entire time.

Why would you turn off my cell phone to turn around and call him? And you know what? She said to him. She said, what do you think? So what do you think? Like as if it was a gossip conversation about their daughter. That's foul. And he said to her, well, she's tall.

And I said that was it. Like, that was the conversation. He was like, yeah. Like, you, Susie is textbook narcissist. And I think just by being her daughter, I have picked up some of those traits. But I think I can also recognize what's not okay.

Does that make sense? Like, it's not that you don't do the stuff sometimes, but you recognize when you do it. Correct. Exactly that. So that was really upsetting. What was really cool about the visit, It. My sister, she actually has like memory of him in her life because she had him in her life until she was like five or six. And she brought up the last time she saw him and they both like remembered it. Like they both like had the same sort of like memory. I thought that was pretty cool. And I asked him, I said, did you ever think that you would see my sister and I in the same room? And he said, no, he never thought that would happen.

And I wanted to ask you this because you had said on a previous episode that your sister had memories until she was five or six years old. Is any part of you resentful that she has those, not resentful towards her, but like resentful that she had that and you didn't? Yeah. And I said that. I expressed that to him. I wasn't super cold like I thought I was going to be. I think maybe some of the questions might have come off like my tone might have been cold, but really it was more like for um clarity purposes yeah and i said that i was like why like when did you leave me why did you leave me and then you stayed with her until five or six well it turns out um my mom's family as i've talked about before and my sister's mom's family were both very very

wealthy um and so from my understanding a relationship between them was also blocked and it wasn't Like, in my opinion, the way I see it, Susie simply kept Raymond away because she didn't like him. He was not violent. He was not an alcoholic. He was not on drugs. And the way that it was explained to me yesterday was that he was very blue collar. So like he would do like construction job. Then we're talking about the 80s and the 90s, right? Like if there's a construction job and that job is done, unless the company you're working for has another project for you, you may be out of work for a little bit before you get your next like job site or whatever. And so at that time, it was this was how it was explained to me for anyone listening like if i'm wrong tell me i'm wrong um but like

so we didn't have cell phones it's not like you could go online and apply for a job or we're talking about like you had to pretty much know somebody in that industry to make sure you got the next job site and so my my dad moved from Texas to new jersey or something like that for a job and like the way it was explained to me by my mom was he's a bum he never had a job he like bounces around yeah and but like to be fair like they both neither one of them have ever said like accused my dad of like having addiction or whatever my dad did say that my mom was a party girl she was out until three four in the morning saved milk in the free freezer but he said that one one particular morning morning it was like three or four in the morning he said my mom came home shit faced and tried to breastfeed me

and he had to like stop it and i was like that sounds like susy sounds about right i said did you want to divorce my mom they ended up getting an annulment because he didn't show up for that court date but evidently he showed up for every court date regarding me and was basically thrown to the side. Like, no, you can't see her. You can't see her. You can't see her. You can't see her. So at that point, he had to stop trying. And like, we're talking about the 90s. There's no way, I think I was putting so much emphasis on today's technology. Why didn't we try harder? So sitting there in front of him and really just asking him, like, what did you do to try to see me? Like, he did. He tried to call my grandparents. My mom moved around a lot. It's not like he could

We've, Texas, drive or fly to Pennsylvania. He was blue collar. Maybe didn't have a job sometimes. There was no way for him to pay to get there in the 90s. And like, sure, could he have shown up in Pennsylvania and hoped for the best? Maybe. But there was no. How do you get a hold of someone?

But then you have to play in your mind and think about you being a mom today, right? Mm-hmm. Parents, listen up because I am talking to you. Let's get real for a second. And this really goes for anybody who spends any time taking care of kids, getting kids to eat healthy truly can feel like a daily battle. I don't have to tell you. You already know. Don't even get me started on those so-called healthy kids supplements out there half the time. They're either missing key nutrients or they taste so bad. Your kids spits them out faster than you could save vitamins. Even worse, you find those gummy vitamins that are basically candy masquerading as health food loaded with sugar and not much else. It's so exhausting. Trying to find something that's actually good for them. that they'll actually eat without feeling like you're compromising on their nutrition feels like a full-time job. This is why we are so glad that we found BM Kids all in one super

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Beam kids, you're helping support No Kid Hungry. Go to shopbeam.com today. If it would have just been an in-and-out situation, that probably would have been worse than him just being completely absent. I would agree. I mean, I'm just thinking if... But why couldn't Susie send me here for the summers? Like, my aunt had clearance to actually raise me with her through CPS or whatever people call it. I know it's different in different states, but she had clearance. Why didn't you send me here for the summers then?

And, you know, unfortunately, that's going to have to be. a conversation that eventually I feel like you will have with your mom. Oh, I'm, I texted Kristen yesterday. I said we need to find Susie. I'm going to find Susie because now you have to confront it. I feel like to fully heal from it because you've already opened the door. And this information, you can't just hold on to it and then play questions in your mind for the rest of your life. It feels like misplaced anger my whole life. Like everyone was talking about like what a deadbeat he was. No shit. He was a dead. deadbeat because y'all forced him to be a deadbeat i look at the situation so much differently now because

i'm like okay he told me he tried to send me a necklace like when i was a um a bit like one or two he tried to send me a necklace that he tried to send me or calling my grandparents and they hung up or whatever he went to every court date drove 36 hours from texas to pennsylvania for the court dates to try to see me for about about two years but again we're talking about the fucking 90s like I consider keel in the 90s like it is not like court today in the 90s unless you were deemed pretty much completely incompetent as a mother you were going to get your kid well so then I learned I already knew my mom only ever had temporary custody my whole life and that was for her she had to go to rehab but raymond could never see me couldn't see me go to rehab go to rehab she could get

get temporary custody. Allegedly, and I got to ask, I'm going to confirm with my mom's brother, she never actually went to rehab. I was under the impression she went to rehab and then got full custody, or not full custody, temporary custody. My aunt said that she never actually went. So, and I'm thinking to myself like, okay, my mom's moving around all the time. Yeah, my grandparents always were where they were. Like they had the same house my whole life, the same phone number my whole life. But they're all, they're going to listen to what my mom's saying. Do you know what I mean? So if my mom's saying, oh, he's a piece of shit, whatever, whatever, they're not. going to give him the time of day. Susie has now in this conversation turned from boozy, Susie

to boozy bamboozling, Susie. One thousand percent. And I'm just, I told Sterling yesterday, I said, my mom, she's textbook narcissist. And I say that because, like, she didn't want to ask for help. So why wouldn't you send me here for the summers? Like, to me, you, I went to YMCA camp. I'm with this babysitter, that babysitter. This babysitter had named Melinda doing Coke in front of my face. Like, you could have sent me to my aunt and my dad's in Texas for an entire summer and not paid for child care and not had to worry about anything and you what's the prop like because it meant more to her and you see this all the time and people listening to this will be able to relate sometimes it means more to the other parent to get back at the other one by using the child

as a tool and that appears to me based off of what you're saying she used you as a tool to harm him over a long period of time and that's fucking sick I asked him did you want to divorce my mom and he said no he said but she would not stop drinking

she would not stop partying and at some point I just look at the situation so much differently now like I don't want to say that he gave up but when you're just like presented I mean two full years of roadblocks

roadblocks roadblocks roadblocks and we're talking about someone to this day who does not have any money he has no funds like he has no i mean he's barely scraping by why wouldn't he give up like what what could he do well i think a lot of times you see it where people get themselves and it doesn't just have to be about custody right but they get themselves in situations where they just feel like there's no end in sight and he probably just felt like okay i have tried this i've tried that and over a period of time when you have done that over and over again, you have to get to a point. And most people get to a point

where they're just like, I'm getting nowhere and it's like spinning wheels. So I just have to stop for my own sanity. You have no idea how that probably mentally impacted that man. Truly. No, and I will say that I definitely think that he has a very low emotional intelligence. and my aunt shared with me that he it is possible that he has like a birth injury. I guess he was in the birth canal for a really, he was almost 10 pounds, natural delivery. He's in the birth canal for a really long time. So he's always, and this is not confirmed, like confirmed. This is just something my aunt shared with me.

He really struggled in school and it always has looked like he's looking through you. Like he, I don't say he's not fully there. because he's there. I just think that he doesn't have the same emotional intelligence as someone. Like I asked, I said, were you in love with our moms? Like my mom and Michaela's mom, he goes, yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah. Just like emotionally, not really there. Yeah, but my aunt did say that he was like that his whole life, like even as a small child. So I thought that was kind of like, okay, like, he can't help that. Like, he doesn't, he can't help if he was born that way. And so I just think that I have misplaced so much anger. And now I need to go back to

Susie and so many things are coming together for me about her. And it's sad because I look at my situation with my kids' dads, right? And I told my dad the same thing. I said, I would go to the ends of the earth for my kids. And my kids' dads and I have had so many problems over the years. But if anything ever happened to them, I would make sure that my kids still got to see their siblings. And I said, you adults collectively could not get your shit together enough for my sister and I to have a relationship. And it is so challenging now to have a sister relationship as adults when she was born here, raised here. I was born there, raised there. Like, you guys fucked up collectively as adults, like all of you. Um, but Susie, it is very clear to

me that she hates me. I just feel like you're going to have to do the hard thing and have the conversations with her because I do not feel like you will ever heal until you actually do that. And there's just like a closure to that situation. I do think that her husband will not allow that to, like, I'm going to try, but I don't think her husband's going to allow it. He's very, it's giving hostage situation. It's giving Stockholm situation. So I do think he's going to block it every step of the way, which scares me because I

know that, like, D.D. Blanchard. Yeah. I said that yesterday. I literally said that last night. You and I are like so on the same page about. this situation. It's just insane. To be two girls from two different walks of life and to be able to see something in the exact same way is wild to me. So what was your dad's upbringing? Was he like middle class? Yeah. I would say from my understanding, and if my aunt or my cousins are

listening, like let me know if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, middle class-ish, but I don't if I ever told you this. In ninth grade, I went on like people finder.com. I paid $99. I don't know where I got the money, but I must have saved it. I don't know. Saved it, stole it. Stole it. Stole it. Yeah. Something. And I gave the paperwork to my mom. And it said that Raymond Guy, which is my dad's dad, but it's not actually his dad. And that's a whole other situation. I mean, we're talking like the 1980s was making like $100,000. So that screams like, wealth to me yeah but my aunt my aunt told me that he was not claiming that on the books and never paid child support so my dad and my aunt were raised by a single mom because the dad was

like not great i just do not understand how raymond pretty much got himself in a situation with two women that came from wealth, had two daughters, and then there was just no relationship and no one knew pretty much anything about him. After you went and did the visit on 16 and pregnant with him, did you happen to ask him if he ever followed your story or anything about you from that time forward?

Yes, he has kept up with both my sister and I online since then. Did he have any questions for you? No. And I asked him several times, do you have any questions for me? Do you have any questions for me? And he's like, no. I will say I was a little upset because I showed him a picture, like I showed him pictures of like my kids and stuff. And he didn't make a remark. He didn't blink. He didn't. I was like, you don't have anything to say. And he goes, what do you want me to say? But you've already rents the emotional intelligence. You also have to understand people who have already been through a grieving process. If he grieved the loss of you after fighting for that. of time. I would imagine, but I don't know for sure when I say this, that he grieved anything that was going to come from you. Okay. So he kind of all be detached from it? I would imagine that there would be a sense of detachment. Like, if you had to grieve the loss of your living child, you would

inadvertently grieve anything that came from that person because you're never going to have anything to do with that person and you have to consider too if he had a relationship with you like you're saying he was allowed to like have you for summers at least i don't consider that in and out because at least that is like a pattern of like i know i'm going to go to my dads every summer sort of like linking with hobby like yes right now is like he knows that he's going to his dad's on long weekends and the summers correct and you have to consider he's seeing these pictures of these kids that are of various ages that came from you that he could have nothing to do with I imagine that's probably very difficult yeah I guess I could I guess I could understand where you're

what you're saying um he did ask me how I felt about felt about Elliot being gay which I thought was very interesting that that was towards the end he goes oh I do have one question and I go what and he was like how do you feel he called him Isaac which is fine how do you feel about Isaac? And I looked at him dead in the face and I said, my son is an incredible human. He is fluent in ASL. He's high honor roll.

He's so good to all of his friends. He's a good sibling. He's a good son. Like, who he loves does not matter to me. And he said, oh, he said, I don't care. I was just wondering how you felt about it. So see, to me, if he's asking a question like that, it's not because he's totally disconnected.

And it just felt like that was a weird. Like, one, I didn't think he kept up that in depth. And two, like, what a weird question to ask. I mean, does he know that you're bisexual? That's a great question. Does he know how many dads are involved here? You know what I mean? Like.

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I mean, that was how the last conversation ended was he was hanging up the phone for her because he didn't want her talking to me. It scares me because I know that, like, she bought her house with, like, my grandparents, like, the inheritance that she got from them. And it scares me if she has pictures of me and stuff. Like, I'll never, my aunt was able to call me to tell me about my dad. No one's going to be able to, everyone in my, nobody in my family has contact with my mom. So I feel like this has opened my eyes to that situation.

I need to get in contact with her to make peace with whatever that looks like. And I told my dad, I said, I am so tired of being angry. Like, I'm so mad. I've been mad my whole life. and I'm so tired of that that I'm like, I'm just tired. Like, I've been mad my whole life. Anger and disappointment are some of the heaviest emotions to carry. Yeah.

So I'm glad I did it. He said he was glad he did it. My sister said she feels better. My sister actually said that what she thought versus what she got is night and day difference. But I feel like listening to you is the same. like i i think that whatever michela's mom and whatever my mom experienced you know some of it is the truth and i think some of i think a lot of what my raymond is the type of person like he's very like take me as i am this is what it like he does not give liar to me at all

he does not give exaggerations embellishments um if he doesn't remember he will flat out say i don't remember like he's very like this is what it is is. And so I tend to believe him a little bit more now. And I think that with my mom being under the influence a lot of the time, her perception could be skewed a little bit. But I think what really, really sticks out to me just to like wrap it all up is that, you know, it's my mom kept him away, not because he was violent. You know, like I think that there, if he was violent, by all means. Yeah. If he was an addict or an alcoholic, also understood. He's neither of those things like you just simply didn't like him which is just so disheartening and i'm sure at your age

you're probably like i could have at least had even if it was a more you reference his very like surface emotional availability even if it was just summers you have to think about the trajectory of your life and i'm sure you question would my life look different now If I would have had those summers with him, if you would have had those summers, chances are your kids would have met him at some point. And it's just what? I hope if nothing else, because one of my kids' dads was like, you're just going for content. I told my sister that and we were talking about it. And we actually laughed and we were like, she said to me, I really hope that someone else finds closure.

this or it opens someone else's eyes and I tend to agree like if anyone else is going through the situation I actually know someone that's like in my dad's shoes and I just look at him so differently now. I will always stand by this just because somebody was not a great partner to you doesn't mean that they're a bad dad or they're a bad mom. Agreed. And also my mom could have given me the opportunity to go for the summers and at some point I might have said I don't want to go there anymore. I don't like it. But it would have felt like your choice. Yes.

You feel like my choice. Rob. Yes. 1,000 percent. And we can move on, but it was very healing. If anyone is in the situation similar to this, go see the parent. Go see the parent. Just swallow your pride a little bit.

Hear them out. Let them tell you their side of it. Let them and decide from there. I'm not saying it's going to end up like my situation, but you might end up with with more closure than you thought. I'm so proud of you, Kitty Cat. Thanks, Kitty Cat. I wasn't in contact with you on Friday because I got a call from the school at around 2 o'clock

p.m. obviously p.m. nobody would call me at a.m. I was leaving a lunch meeting and the school was calling me to inform that. that Deering Jackson's during, Deering. Sterling says Deering also. She does? Yes. It ought to be a South thing. It has to be.

So during his first period or block, they were taking a test. And I'm repeating what was said to me from administration at the school. Students were taking a test in this block. They were given some laptop time after said test. to play games on their laptop. From my understanding, they sit at a table of three or four in the social studies class. The teacher had told the class to store the laptops at a certain time because they were going to go to their next period. This one student at the table did not store his laptop and was repeatedly told to store said laptop.

So Jackson says to this classmate, hey, she told her. us a couple of times to store the laptop, log off. The kid then turns around and says, why don't you log off life? Why don't you injureself? I have goosebumps. Do you see the hair standing straight up on my arm? The literal goosebumps? So I'm listening to this narrative of the events. And immediately all the questions as a parent start coming to my mind. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, how did that even transpire? In my opinion, Jackson was just trying to be a good friend of this classmate and be like, hey, you're going to get in trouble if you don't log off the laptop. Yeah. You're going to get behavior points off, right? And then for a student to turn around in such a simple situation,

like logging off of a laptop and to say something like that. So I guess my question for myself is, a parent was, okay, this happened. I know his first block is from 9 a.m. to 9.55 a.m. I'm just getting a call from the school at 2 p.m. and what they are referencing was a threat to my child's safety. Very concerning. They were taking it very seriously. To the point that my child was pulled out of class all the way up until fifth period, multiple different times to go to the principal's office, to go to the counselor's office, to do all of these things. Like, he was pulled out of class in multiple periods after that. There are witness statements backing up what Jackson's version of events were that were all

consistent. So I asked if I was going to get a copy of said report. Right. They said no. and I said, well, then I'll do an open records request for the said report because I know that if I request the report directly from the school and not the district office, then the names will be redacted. And I want to know what student this was that said this to my child because I don't want them remaining in class. Like, I don't feel comfortable with this child remaining in my child's class and now I have to think as a parent forward this other student said this to my son now is he

going to target him for the rest of forever while they're in that middle school based on my experience yes and I say my experience meaning my kids experience so that makes me feel very uncomfortable and I just hate because I feel like when I never went to the principal's office or anything like that whenever I was in school. But I do know, I had a sibling that was regularly in the principal's office and there were just communications between the principal and both sets of parents, right? And then both students. Now, they don't want to give you any information about the other student.

They don't want to give you any information about the other student's parents. I could simply have a conversation with the student's parents. and be like, hey, this is very concerning. And then we move forward. 1,000%. I don't, could someone also, like anyone listening to this podcast, could someone, is it because of social media and like the ability to find out who the other parent is and like a bigger safety concern?

Because I remember growing up, like you, all the parents would go to the office and all the kids with the problem would go to the office. But, I mean, even when somebody mop the floor. or with Elliot a couple years ago. They wouldn't even let me know. Like, he obviously told me who it was, but they wouldn't even say, and I'm like, he assaulted my son and you're telling me you're not going to tell me who it is. Like, that's insane to me.

I got a call from the school. I emailed the school yesterday for an incident that occurred. She also, and I understand, she can't help it, but she also could not tell me she had to say this student, this child, this child. It's infuriating. Yes. So what is the solution? Like, what can you even do?

So I then, when I found out that I wasn't going to get a copy of this report sent home, I contacted the school police officer to find out if I could get a case number so I could do an open records request from the district office. Do you know that at 3.45 in the school days over at 4 o'clock, This incident took place any time between 9 a.m. and 9.55 a.m. that they considered a threat, a safety threat against my child, that this officer did not even have a case number yet because he just found out about it. Lindsay, this, remember when Elliott got beat up two years ago? I heard because my nephew told his dad and his dad texted me and I was at the school before they used. even called me. And in fact, I called them. That is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form. And the way that I would be all over that school, that is not acceptable in any way. What do you, and, and log off.

Log off. The fuck you mean. Well, like, now I'm scared of you. We must be in the same exact boat then, because Kristen called me last night at, like, let me see what time she called. First, she FaceTime me at, uh, um, 6.51 p.m. here. So it was 7.51 over there. I didn't answer. I was on the phone with Lincoln. Finally call her back. 743. Some mom messages me and told me that she told Lincoln, or she told her daughter to put her hands on Lincoln because she swears Lincoln's bothering her. I said, well, in fact, I messaged her back. I said, well, in fact, the school actually called me because your daughter has been bullying my son for three years, four years. And

Your other daughter has been bullying Lux for several years. So it's obviously a family issue. Well, then two of my friends who have kids in the same grades told me that her daughter was picking on them. And one of them was actually moved out of the classroom. So please do not come to me about it. She told me, why I told her to punch? I told her to hit him. Lincoln is the most unpro-like, he's funny and witty, but he's the, when it comes to school,

surprisingly, Lux and Lincoln are the most unproblematic. children that I've ever had in school. I emailed the school probably like 10 p.m. this time last night. They called me first thing this morning and handled the situation. So if your district can't do that, I'm writing letters. I would be writing letters. Last night, well, I received an email from the school principal and by school principal, I mean like the grade level principal.

And she has been super helpful. But she had emailed and said, you can contact the district office to get the report or I can forward an email per your direction to the district office to get the report. So I emailed back and I said forward this email to the district office so that I can get the report because I absolutely am going to contact the parents. Yeah. Like if you're coming to school and not that that should ever be said, there is no situation that warrants that to be said. Never.

But because your child wasn't following instruction and my son says something about it and says log off of the computer because you're going to get behavior points off. I look at that as my child's being a good friend and you're killing him to log off life. I just think that's so highly inappropriate. And like, okay, lesson learned. Jackson, even if you want to be a good friend, don't say anything. that's the lesson but like to say something to that extent like what type of other thoughts is this child having fall is upon us and I just need to know who is with me in bringing out the soft

blankets decorating for fall getting into the warmer tones these are small traditions this time of year for me that mark the changing of the season and make me feel so good and this is about that time when I also start updating my makeup look so I like to do that by changing up products that I use because my skin changes between seasons and also just tones and different colors that I'm using. And when I tell you, Thrive Cosmetics needs to be your go-to for completing any fall look you're going for. I am not kidding. You guys have heard Kail and Lizzie both talk about how much they love Thrive. They turned me onto Thrive Cosmetics a long time ago, and I will never part with them. One of my favorite things is that every product is 100% vegan, cruelty-free, and made with clean

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So complete your fall look. Go to thrive cosmetics.com slash coffee for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics, C-A-U-S-E-M-T-I-C-S dot com slash coffee. So then I proceeded to say, I need to know if said child is in other classes of my child. and if not, then that child needs to be moved from any classes that my child's in. Jackson claims that he's only in that one class. So it shouldn't be that hard if the threat was against my child, but this also happened. I don't know if you remember when Jackson was in fourth grade, those girls that kept adding

him to like the text chat and he kept trying to remove himself. Yeah, I vaguely remember that. And so I said either my child needs to be moved out of that math class because I've, you know, went through his phone and seen all of these things. And it's very clear to me what is transpiring. He's trying to remove himself from the situation and they keep on. Do you know that the school district told me that they cannot remove another child, even if they are in the wrong, they can't remove the other child out of their classroom because of an event that took place. place with against your child that that would have to come from the parents to request for their child to be removed why I'm like what part are you not understanding like I don't want them around my kid that's so interesting how different things work in the south like uh Sterling was telling me telling me about the Texas statewide rules for phones for kids like there's a statewide like mandate, I guess, it's sort of irrelevant, but how different your district is operating

compared with ours. Because when I was dealing with the incident last night, one of the girls who was having a problem with the same child and her son, she said that the school took one of the children out of the classroom and put them in a different classroom, like permanently. So I'm like, she didn't request that. And we were upset because, you know, Lux and him were not in the same class anymore. and we were like, what the heck happened? Well, it turns out it was because of the issues.

Like, whatever the issues may be, I mean, I'm not saying it was just solely that kid. It could have been other things, but it wasn't a parent request. It was just the teachers collectively decided. I told the school, I said, that is just not something that I feel comfortable being said to my child, because to your point, if that child is saying that out loud, what are the other thoughts that child's having? So, you know, at this point now I'm scared. for everybody in the school, not just my kid.

And that child needs to go through some type of mental health evaluation to deem that he is okay to be in a setting like that. It's hard because I'm like, on one hand, it's like kids are kids, kids are going to say things. They're going to hear things. They're going to repeat them, right? But then I think about Lincoln and Jackson are roughly the same age. They're both in sixth grade. Yeah. And like Lincoln doesn't say stuff like that. Like he doesn't, I don't even think he thinks stuff like that. So it's hard for me. And like I read something on Facebook the other day and it was like normalized not keeping your kids around like not allowing your kids to be around other kids who are not parented well or something like that. And like I sort of didn't agree because I'm like I was the kid that wasn't parented well and I just wanted love and I just wanted like to be in a safe place.

And so you, like, wonder about the kids that are saying stuff. Like, I have a little bit of empathy, but, like, what is going on at home that he's saying stuff like that? And, like, maybe some people listening are going to be like, well, it was just a joke or it was just something he heard and he repeat. Like, that's not good enough. In today's climate, you have to treat every single situation like this with the utmost care and respect because we don't know who the next person is to do something violent at school.

So, like, you literally have to treat every single. So, like, how your district is handling this and not having a case number by the end of the school day, I would be so livid and scary. And he created a case number and said that there was actually no report that would be associated with that case number until he did the report. And it had just been reported to him right before I got in touch with him. So, like, you're telling me that that was said during the school day, that early in the school day. And the school officer was just alerted at the end of the school day. Is the school that he goes to like big? Is it possible that there was like so much of a caseload that he couldn't have gotten to it?

Because I'll say for like Lincoln, for example, is only fourth, fifth and six. Not saying that, you know, this incident would have been bigger or more important than any other incidents. But like if there's a ton and it's a huge school, I could see that. but, like, for only three grades at Lincoln School, like, that wouldn't, I wouldn't let that fly. There's only three grades at 6th, 7th, and 8th. And while I understand there might have been a heavy caseload and other stuff going on, that's perfectly fine. But the fact that the school resource officer or school cop, whatever they call themselves, just found out about it. Yeah.

No, that's a huge red flag. Huge red flag. So I just have such an issue with how they handled it. I do appreciate that they were trying to gather all facts before getting me on the phone because maybe it would have come across like more than what it was if I got the initial call without them doing what they needed to do. So I do understand that. But to your point, with the climate, you have to take everything very seriously.

Everything. Every freaking big. Like you have like and it's just the way it goes like you just have to you don't know what like it reminds me of the case where I mean this is obviously extreme but I'm hopefully you guys will understand where I'm coming from is like when we talked about that one case of like the student bringing the gun and like the everyone was telling the principal and the assistant principal and like telling them and telling them and telling them and they ignored it and they ignored it and then boom a teacher gets shot it's like well and it's scary I mean I mean I I have always been a big lover of the clear backpacks, always. Did I tell you what happened to me in middle school with the knife? No. You brought a knife? No.

This, his name was James. I believe I was in seventh grade, possibly eighth, but I think it was seventh. Wanted to, like, take me on a date or, like, go out or whatever. I said no. And I think I said, like, I don't know. know your mom or something like that like something stupid sounds very kale lowrie ask yeah um and he brought a 10 and a half inch butcher knife to school and went into the bathroom and told his name was that one was Zach Whittermore and the other one was Zach something i can't remember

his last name how he was going to stab me and i was called down to the office and of course in true susy fashion everything is over the top and that my daughter and why don't you guys have metal detectors, if there is no budget for metal detectors, I actually never thought of clear backpacks. And I think that that is a fantastic solution and an affordable solution for schools. I think that's, I have never, I'm embarrassed to say I've never thought of that. And I think that is an incredible solution. I think that's an affordable, that could be nationwide. Like, I think that is a great movement. I think it should be a federal law that students carry clear backpacks to school. How do we warrant that move? So if Texas can make a

statewide mandate for cell phone hours, Sterling was telling me about it last night, can we not do the same for clear backpacks? Like, who do we need to speak to to, like, make this a whole movement? Because, like, there are ways to make cute backpacks that are, and I've seen them. They're all over Target. You have to use them for stadiums. You have to use them for certain, like, social events. Like, how do we have to carry a clear backpack into a sporting event? You're telling me that our children should not feel the safety of knowing that everything that is in their backpack or their peers backpack is going to be seen by administration, that that should not be required within a school building? I love that idea so much

And I'm also thinking about I think it was the end of last year Lux, he's a car rider And I walk over actually And I walk over to the little fence To pick him up and he had a watch on And I said Where does this watch come from?

Turns out friend gave it to him My friend Casey works at the school She's like, I know where that came from Let me ask his mom. Nope the little boy took it from his dad's closet or whatever gave it to lux and it was never like it wasn't like an amazon peat like cuty junky little like you could give it to your friends i don't care kind of thing shit like that would even help parents out right like it's it's it's more than just like the violence and gun gun situation like it could help parents out as well when jackson was in

preschool every year of preschool like from the time he was in mother's morning out until and he did transitional kindergarten through the same preschool, it was clear backpacks. It was like a clear backpack policy at the school and the school issued the backpacks. I'm like, why can our federal government not make that a mandate to where there is clear backpacks and all, I mean, public schools? I, maybe it's because I'm spiraling and my meds haven't kicked in, but I want to make this a movement. Let's make it a movement. No, like, I'm not being, like, I'm dead serious. If anyone wants to join us on this movement, please let us now.

While we're talking about school, we had a listener write in saying that her 11-year-old niece came home from school yesterday and someone in her class had cut her hair. See? No. Literally, literally no. And yes, they have, they have scissors at school. I get it. I get it. I get it. But like, we don't know if these were kitchen shears. We don't know if these were meat-cutting scissors from home. I mean, those fisker scissors, if that's the way you call them, like the fiscer scissors that all the teachers ask for, those things are poignant. Well, they do have ones that don't. They have ones, the scissors now for kids now that cannot cut hair. What? Yes.

My friend got them because her daughter cut her on hair. Hold on. Hold up. Hold the phone. Hold the phone. Fisk. scissors no hair yep they literally have fist skirt hold on we'll make sure that we link these up but the only way that that would work is if everybody had them because this story says that this little girl's very specific about her hair so she was hysterical she said that the little girl

got suspended but it doesn't sit right with me that the little girl gets to go back to school after her suspension and laugh and make fun of what she, of what she did, has anyone been in a situation like this and how do you handle it? I mean, ultimately, it doesn't feel safe at school now that she's embarrassed and humiliated and doesn't want to go back. I don't blame her. First of all, if somebody cut my hair in school, I would have also been suspended. It's what I cut my own hair when I was like five or six in my aunt's hair salon on Main Street. I went to the back while my, I think my mom, I don't know if she was working there, just visiting or whatever.

And I took a pair of scissors and I cut my own hair. And then one of my girlfriends, her, one of her daughters, and it was right in the front cut all her bangs all the way up here. But for someone else to cut your hair, like I could not imagine Lux coming home and having someone had cut his locks off. I mean, just a child, I'm just thinking the situation, like a child sitting behind another child and a desk. And it's just like snip, snip.

could you imagine oh and like kids that age well how old was the kid that wrote in or 11 years old 11 I'm like no hell no no because if lincoln came home and told me that he cut someone's hair at 11 years old oh no because I'm thinking this is like kindergarten because now I don't have any tolerance for you no at that point you know better no no the kind of Consequences should be severe. Yeah. Right? But this is the kind of shit that's happening inside of school buildings.

And then we wonder why teachers are worn the hell out. It's because this is what they're doing all day every day. Like I got an email yesterday, timely. Jackson was in his science class. So he was in fourth period. And my son decided that it was a good idea to go with his buddies from the lunchroom into the bathroom. and get soap and slinging a clock across the wall. Jackson's been doing that with his friends for quite some time for years.

And then he got caught this time doing it. And I said, don't worry, I'll deal with it. But so bad, I wanted to respond back to the email and say, thanks for being timely on this. However, you guys weren't timely on a fucking threat. But thank you for letting me know that my son slung soap across the wall. It's weird. I wonder, that's weird. That's really weird. And he lost five behavior points for sling, like, I'm not even responding.

That's another thing, another big difference. I can't speak for all of the Northeast, but where we are, we don't have like a point system, behavioral system. They stopped using Class Dojo app. We don't have that. I think that would be really good. Are you doing to the behavior, just themselves? Yeah. Like, so the way that the behavior things work here, and this is across the board from all of elementary school, and now I'm seeing it in sixth grade, is that they get a certain amount of points, like they start with 100 points. And then once they work themselves down, it meets, like, certain thresholds. So then if you work your way down to a certain amount of points, the first one might be like silent lunch. the next one might be a half day in school suspension. After you've lost a certain amount of point, you get out of school suspension.

Some of the points, if you're down to a certain point, if there is a field trip coming up, even if your parents have paid for said field trip, you now no longer eligible to go on the field trip. I love that. I think it's a great system in theory, but I I would love to know how many points, behavior points, the child lost that threatened to my son. I would also like to know, like, for, I don't, I think they've tried that, like, on the dojo app. I don't know if you've ever used dojo, class dojo, but they have something like that through the app.

But it, the teachers, and obviously, like, I don't know if it creates more work. Like, I don't know. I'm wondering if they don't use it because it's too hard to keep up with, with, like, the moving classes. because I don't know about you for Jackson, but since Lux is in Spanish immersion from kindergarten, they switch classes. Oh, wow. So they do half day English, half day Spanish. So the half day with the Spanish teacher, they have to switch class for that.

So I'm wondering if that's maybe why they'd never really done like a point system because I guess it would be too hard to keep track. There's a lot of kids. I don't know. But in theory it sounds good. I have always had a hard time keeping up with like. tour charts. I'll do it for a couple weeks. And then if we just forget about it, I have a star jar. We forgot it. Like, we just don't keep up with it regularly. But, like, in theory,

it sounds really, I'm actually going to ask Sterling. She works at the school. I'm going to ask her if her kids had that. Well, let me know what she says. Someone else says, and this was actually emailed to us, they say, hi, ladies. I just wanted to quickly say how much I enjoy the podcast. I've been listening for years and I think you're all wonderful. Kristen included. I think you two are going to be able to provide valuable insight into a decision that I'm struggling to make. Long story short, I'd say I'm about 95% sure that I'm done having babies. I have one son who's about to turn two. There are so many reasons I don't want to have another child, but one reason that's holding me back from 100% deciding is the fact that my son will ever

experience a sibling. A little part of me also feel selfish for denying him the opportunity and worry that he will grow up to resent me. But I don't feel like that's the only. But I just don't feel like that only reason is enough for me to try again for a baby. I thought you two could give me opinions from both sides of the fence. I don't know how you find peace with the decision. Any insight would be a big help, signed, confused, kitty gang gal. Well, thank you for writing in. My best advice growing up as an only child and hating it.

I also did not have cousins close to my age. I think if you have nieces and nephews, cousins, anything like that, make sure they grow up together as much as you can, as often as you can. Even if it stresses you out, it will benefit your child. If you don't have nieces and nephews and things like that, making sure that you essentially go out of your way for social opportunities with friends. So if that means driving them to, you know, a friend's house for a play date that you really didn't want to go to, making sure that they have that regularly and consistently, I absolutely. And I know that there are plenty of only children who loved it. I don't know what their cousin situation was like. I don't know what their friend's situation was like, but it was very, very difficult for me. And so shockingly, two of my best friends growing up were also only children. um which is so weird because like when i think back to it i'm like they loved it because one their parents were present and two their parents always made sure they had opportunities to like do things with their friends and they also had cousins and so that i see like a big difference in

how they perceived being an only child um for you you have jackson obviously you sent me videos of him and the friends like dancing in the car like so you are making sure that he has not siblings, but like very close connections with his peers. I do feel like I overcompensate in that area where we always kind of have a friend over or we're inviting a friend to go and do something so that he has somebody that's about his own age to go and be able to experience things with outside of being a parent. But I will say as time has gone on and I've gone back and forth on like, do I want another child, do I not want another child struggling with the idea of a child from two marriages?

Like, I very much mentally struggled with that. I can confidently say that I'm ready to do that. Like, I am ready to have another child because I do think it's so important with, and you've got to think about all factors, right? Like, my child has his grandparents on Will's side. And he has his two cousins on Will's side. So he's very close to his family over there. He doesn't have grandparents on the other side.

And I could see or can see as he's getting older that like when we do family function stuff or when he goes off to college, like, I want him to be able to come home and be like, okay, well, I still have a home at home like with my brother or sister. But the flip side is that Jackson is so old at this point that it would basically be like raising two only children. From the raising standpoint, yes. But I do think that there's a place to where he's still going to feel like that. It's just so much younger, right? You've got to think of Elliot and his age and then your youngest. Like there's still a sibling relationship and bond there regardless of their age. No, I think that's true. I definitely think that. Like, I look at, like, Elliot and his sister at his dad's house. It's like, there's a pretty big age gap there. But, like, he'll still, it's like, I'm going to my dad's, like, with, you know, my family over there. I have a sister over there. Yeah. No, I agree with that. I just, um, I've kind of been thinking of this situation in the way that we talked about your dad. Um, if you have an inkling to do it and you're only nine, your, you're, you're, you're, you're.

95% if there's any percentage that like you want to do it I would say do it because there is a greater chance that you're going to regret than doing it. Okay. So you're saying I should have another daughter then? Kristen, do not kill me. Oh my God. No, because that's so funny. I know Avery Woods got backlash because she said something about the way that she loves her son versus her daughter, whatever. I love all my kids so equally. But I love my sons differently than I love my daughter. And knowing that it's different.

It's the same, but it's different. Does that make, not the same. It's equal, but different. Well, love is equal, but the love is different. Yes. And I think, I think a lot of it is because, like, I'm healing little kale with Valley. And so with that being said, and me not growing up, not growing up with my sister, I have always said I want my daughter to have a sister because I love there is something so

like instinctual about my like how I feel about my like I cried yesterday because I was like my sister is about to be an orphan like her mom passed away like now her dad is not like and it's like weird because I don't know if I ever told you this but I used to carry around this keychain it was like a picture of me I was like in first grade or something and I would be like this is my sister I just knew I had a sister Like I knew I had a fucking sister I didn't find out until seven years later That I actually had a sister

But I would say oh her name's Melissa Oh her name is McKenzie I was pretty close I was pretty fucking close That is crazy So it was a picture of you But you told people That it was your sister

Yes Why? I don't know I was weird I was a very unremarkable weird child And I say all that to say Like to bring this full circle To like the whole like The listener

like and your point is like if you have that inkling just do it so i guess that means i'll have another daughter well christian's going to fire us both from this podcast by the time we get done with foul play hey ladies i finally got around submitting my foul play story queen of procrastination here my sister got married during the height of covid when there was lots of restrictions in place sorry it was trying to think of how many times i told this bit she wasn't done yet um she had a small intimate wedding at her house and only invited close family members to her backyard ceremony and dinner she asked my husband and i to stay after everyone else left for an after party because she wanted to celebrate more my husband never drinks hard liquor but my new brother-in-law

offered him some glasses of an expensive fancy whiskey i don't know where this is going before he knew it my hubby was hammered and went to lay down i was downstairs cleaning up after the dinner after laying down, he got a spin that ran to throw up in the bathroom. However, the bathroom was occupied, so he turned to the next room and puke before he could make it to the trash can. I come upstairs to see this man puking on their brand new freaking marriage license. I didn't want to ruin the new couple's night by telling them, so I snuck downstairs to get paper towels and a hairdryer to attempt to salvage the marriage license. Needless to say, the paper is now crinkly and foul smelling as hell. I put my husband to bed and continued partering. I put my husband to bed and continued

partying with the newlyweds. I had so much anxiety that they were going to be pissed that my husband had desecrated their freshly signed marriage certificate. But lucky for me, they both thought it was hilarious and loved that their tiny COVID wedding got rowdy. My parents had signed it as the witnesses. So when she got a new copy, my sister made up that she dropped the original license in a puddle and that's why they had to sign a new one. She's the real MVP. Love you ladies and hope this made you laugh. For the record, my husband has never drank hard liquor again. Listen, if you ever get sick off of drinking something, you never will look at it the same. Mine's gold slager. Like, my 21st birthday, I drank gold slager and it just makes me kind of like get

the gags when I think about it. I don't know if I've ever had that. Pinnacle whipped is disgusting. Fireball. I love fireball. Fireball's in line, though. with gold flogger and I just I can't do anything cinnamon. I don't even eat cinnamon gum. I'm not a drinker in general and I threw up one or two times from drinking in the handful of times I ever have and I just, it's not for me in general. I don't want to feel like that. I don't want to feel the spins. I don't want to get a headache. I don't want to have a hangover. Like it's just not for me. Man, when the room feels like it's spinning. Are there, can someone answer this question, this last worrying question? Like for anyone who's like a big drink,

drinker, whether you're an alcoholic or you do it regularly for funsies. Um, what did she say? She said kale. But why? I was just going to ask, like, are y'all, like, immune to hangovers? Like, how does that work? Like, how do you get over that part of it? Because, like, I don't, maybe I would drink if I wasn't going to, like, I don't. Hair of the dog. I was going to say, here of the dog. Like, what does that mean?

If you've gone out and you've just had yourself a damn time and you wake up and you're like, oh, I actually can't do it today. Just pop your next drink because you'll be okay. Wait, that like makes it better? Yes. Really? Kristen's like, yes. Really?

Yeah, if you've ever had a hangover, I mean, I would not recommend like drinking like that and just having a good damn time on a Sunday, fun day, and then waking up on Monday morning and being like, oh, I've got to go to my job. So let me just like pop this white claw. but Kristen says if you're extremely nauseous sip of beer not like an IPA but like a Miller light or a white claw like that works too but so like would it like taper it off like could you just drink a tiny bit to like take the edge off and then and then slowly get sober without the hangover effects because like the hangover effects are wild you know the only time

I've ever been hungover was on my 21st birthday and it was it was literally gold flogger so that's why I will never look at it again thank you guys for all always supporting our show. Please subscribe and a review on the Apple Podcast app. Follow and rate on Spotify or listen or listen wherever you get your pods. For our latest merch, visit CoffeeCompospodcast.com to shop. Full video episodes are available on Kail's Patreon at patreon.com slash Kail Lowry. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community. We hope that you guys have a fantastic week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya. Fear is free on Pluto TV

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