Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Therapy, Tears & Tough Decisions

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

CC:471 Kail and Lindsie are back for a very real conversation about what it looks like to keep showing up when life feels anything but steady. From starting trauma therapy and recognizing unhealthy patterns to trying to make hard decisions when your head and heart are nowhere near the same page, this episode is a reminder that healing is rarely neat, simple, or convenient.They also get into the pressure of parenting through personal struggles, the weight of co-parenting logistics, and why sometimes the strongest thing you can do is pause instead of forcing an answer. And because this is Coffee Convos, the episode also takes a turn into pop culture drama, parenting debates, and the kind of honest conversation that feels like catching up with friends who say the quiet part out loud.Get your Fatherless Behavior Tour Tickets hereFor full videos head to patreon.com/kaillowry To send in your Foul Plays email us at [e-mail] you for checking out our sponsors!Better Help: This episode is brought to you by Better Help. Visit betterhealth.com/coffee today to get 10% off,K12: See why more than 3 million families have chosen K12 find a K12 Powered School near you today! Go to K12.com/COFFEECONVOS to learn more.Fabletics: Get 80% off everything, including the Khloe Collection when you sign up as a new VIP at Fabletics.com/coffeeconvos, take a quick style quiz, and be sure to select coffeeconvos when prompted to unlock your 80% off.Skims: Shop our favorite bras and underwear at SKIMS.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you! Select "podcast" in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.Leesa: Go to Leesa.com for 20% off mattresses PLUS get an extra $50 off with promo code COFFEE, exclusive for our listeners.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour, 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kaleowry.com. And if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else. I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is coffee convoes with kale Lowry and Lindsay Christ. I really want you to be in your fields, Kail.

That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye. I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning and welcome back to another episode of Coffee Convo's podcast. I have been crying and look like absolute hell.

So how are we? Mostly good. I feel like a good. it like I feel positive today. I feel like things are starting to look up and I feel like I'm not getting that same reciprocation from you. So what's wrong? I feel like I'm just going through it.

I start trauma therapy. Did I tell you about this on? No. Yeah. So I have been on the hunt for a new therapist. Okay. After my last therapy situation and her basically like very last minute before a session telling me that I don't know if it was like a losing of license or like what actually happened. And it's like,

well, that makes sense and maybe is what's wrong with me because I've been in this therapy with you and now you're potentially losing your license. After that, I kind of just like sat out of therapy because I was very, very overwhelmed with all the things that were going on in life. And I don't know if you've ever felt like this in therapy before, but it can be so triggering to go to therapy and feel like you don't have enough time to process. anything until you go back to the next session. That's why at one point I was going twice a week because that is exactly what was happening. Like so much was going on that like I couldn't wait the all the days in between.

Like I needed to have this one to decompress the last week and then I needed two days or three days later to do the next one. And I've completely, I completely understand. It just sucks. And so I, when I hired Hunter, obviously we all know elephant in the room that shit has been wild since December. And when I hired him, like one of my first things that I wanted to do was to find a trauma therapist that also specializes in EMDR. And I don't know if you've ever heard anything about EMDR. It's supposedly like a very, very successful type of therapy.

Dr. Drew told me about it. Unfortunately, I don't think we have that in Delaware. Like the resources here are limited, but he suggested someone in L.A. I just, just don't go out to LA as often as I used to. So just with all of the things that have been going on on my life within, I would say really since around December, knowing that I'm like starting that therapy on Saturday. And I don't know if you've ever had this experience either. But it's like, I want to do a clearing of things that I know are not well for me prior to going to that session. because also it's like you're financially spending for this, then you're spending your time and then your emotional energy.

And if there are certain things that you need to clear out of your life ahead of that, I'm like, let me just clear it out. Yeah. No, I mean, that's a good mindset to have. Like you're kind of going into it with trying to go into it with a clear mind and a clear, like, head space. I think that makes the most sense because otherwise you're just, that's just going to be all surface stuff that you're going to have to dig through anyway.

So it's like get rid of those initial, layers and then kind of be able to dig deep. You'll have to let me know how it goes because I would love to do that type of therapy. I haven't also, I was seeing, I was seeing my therapist again in November, I think it was. And then my schedule just, there's no available, like I'm mostly available on Mondays. My therapist is off on Mondays. So like there was just, it's, I miss her and I need her, but like I have not had a chance since November.

So I'm a little bit further behind then. but you'll have to let me know how it goes. That's also like such a point to make too because we need to prioritize the things in our lives that make us the healthiest us. And if everything's a priority, nothing is. And I've said that before. Also getting a new therapist. And when I did my intake with this therapist, I told her she was like, what are your

reservations about being back in therapy? And I said, mainly my reservation is that you create a relationship with your therapist. and it's like you go through somewhat of like a phase of breakup when you're finding a new therapist and it's like you're now dating a new therapist. Yeah. I mean, we talk about that all the time, especially with better help. I mean, it's hard. It's so hard.

It's so, so hard. And so I'm starting that on Saturday, but I kind of set my Saturday up so that I could go do a massage and red light therapy. And then I'm going to actual therapy. And then I am doing an entire. rebranding, obviously, you know this. And I'm going shopping afterwards and I'm going to take myself to lunch. But I also wanted to address some stuff regarding David and those things that are going on. I do plan to do an entire episode kind of like breaking down the timeline of our

relationship, what happened on the night of February the 13th. But I am really, really struggling because I feel like when you love someone and you have a level of forgiveness in your heart and you want to give someone grace, but then there are so many people that are around me and my personal life that will not accept that. And I don't know how you get past that part in a relationship because I can't one of those people is my son. And that's something that you can't, that's not something that you can look past. You can't look past. You can't beyond that. You know what I mean? Like that your son is the most important. Like, are you having concerns about David? Are you having concerns about Jackson while you're with David? Like,

are you like concerned about that whole thing? Is that kind of what you were getting at or not really? I had a full-blown conversation with Hunter. And for those of you who don't know who Hunter is, he is my new assistant, but he's also been a friend for quite some time. And I felt like I was crashing out on the way home from school drop off this morning because it's very hard to love two people like him and then my son and also have to make decisions that might not be the best thing for me but would be the best thing for him. And I just don't know. Unfortunately, when things go to the internet, we all know that that's never erased.

and anybody can see it. And unfortunately, my child is at an age where he sees stuff and his friends see stuff. And so there's conversations going on within their 13, 12, and 13 year old friend group that I have a due diligence as a parent and how I need to raise him to make certain decisions that might not necessarily align with where my heart is at. And that just sucks. I've told you this before and I'll say it again because it's the truest thing. Like leaving the person that you're still in love with is one of the hardest things that you'll ever have to do.

And nobody can understand it until you have to go through it, right? Like it's not something you want to do. But if you know that that is the best thing for your son, I mean, I'm not saying that's what you're choosing to do. So, and I have a good relationship with David, you know, him and I talk sometimes. And that's not to say, like, I agreed with anything from that was on the internet. You know, I know some of it was AI, whatever that is. But until you're in a situation where you have to choose between yourself and your child for whatever, for whatever reason, nobody could prepare you for it. And I never fully understood it until I had been in that position before.

Like the position that you're in right now, I was in it not that, not that long ago. And I didn't understand when other people would be like, oh, like it just didn't work out or like I, you know, I had to do like I, I didn't understand it until I faced it head on. And so there's nothing I can say that's going to make this easier, whatever you decide. And I do think that based on my experience, time does help. And so that's not to say that if you were to break up with David or not be with him anymore, whatever that looks like, I don't know what the situation is currently. but like that's not to say that in a year or two things don't come back together. I just think that because so much has happened in the amount of time that we have been together, that if I make the decision that is on my heart to make, there would be no coming back from that

because I'm not putting myself through therapy to fix some of the things that are broken in me to potentially open a door back up that could break me again. I'm actually wearing a Skims triangle braulet right now as I'm recording this. And we absolutely love Skims. Everything Skims. I just gifted a sweater to Rebecca from Skims. And she had been asking me about it because I have a zip up and she loved it. So she has one now.

And before skims, underwear was always an afterthought for both me and Lindsay. We would focus more about what's on the outside versus what's on the inside. And now that I've had skims, I am absolutely obsessed. There are two products from skims that I will always regularly order. And every order when I order from them, and that is the cotton jersey dip thong. It is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to underwear when they stretch out or lose their shape throughout the day. And you do not experience this with skims at all. I have washed my underwear so many times and they are absolutely perfect just as the day that I bought them.

And I am also wearing the fits everybody triangle braulette. That is a go-to that I wear mostly every day. I reach for that fits everybody triangle brawlet so much. I do have bigger boobs and I don't know that a lot of people know that and Kiel, I know that you're pretty busty too. So I don't regularly go brawless and this this bra is actually so, so, so good. So you guys can shop our favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you.

Select podcast in the survey. And please be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. I understand that also. Like you're not going to put just like you said, you started the episode by saying like you're investing your time. You're investing your money. You're investing your emotional energy, all of those things. And I would agree. I mean, that would be really challenging because typically people that go to therapy are going.

because of people who should be going to therapy, right? And the people that should be going to therapy are not in it. And I'm not saying that David's not in it. I'm not saying he's doing anything wrong. But I say that to say, if you're going to therapy and he's not, I think that there is a lot to be said. If you all are both going separately and then you go together, that's one thing. But if it's just you that's doing it, I mean, you can't really,

what else can you do? I mean, I don't know. I hate to see you going through this. I really do. And then it also sucks. And I don't know if you feel like or have felt like this. But I've said that Will and I only did one therapy session prior to us going through the divorce. And that was not successful.

And I do think sometimes with divorce, people choose to go to therapy as like a last-ditch effort to try to hold on to something that is already gone. I think that can be true. I would agree. I think that a lot of times couples are going to therapy when they should have been going way before. Like go before there's a problem so you know how to handle the problem. Yeah. And so I don't know how I feel about being in a relationship and even being open to doing therapy with someone that I'm not married to. I'm struggling with that a little bit because is that a sign or is that healthy?

I don't know. And so prior to me getting on this recording, obviously I'm crying right now. I was already crying, but I had to send a hard text message and say, you know, like, I need some time and I need some space. And it's not being reciprocated. And I don't know if you went through this at all, but, you know, for me to be told, well, you're allowing a 13-year-old, an ex-husband and friends dictate your decision-making. it's not true, but I also value people who have been in my life for a very long time. And at the end of the day, I have a child to raise.

I definitely have been in that situation, like, where people around me feel like they, and I do value how they feel. But at the same time, I will say the only, because you only have one child, I do think that that would, however he's feeling does hold weight. But I also feel like, and again, I'm just reiterating the fact that I don't understand the full dynamic. I don't know the full details. But you also, like, you need to consider Jackson's feelings, obviously, you know, his comfortability, his safety, his trust, all of that, but also in mind, keep in mind that a 13-year-old cannot make adult decisions for you. So you're going to choose

whatever you think is best for his well-being, for your well-being. But ultimately, like, obviously you can't let a teenager dictate your adult decisions, but all that. ultimately you know, and your head and your heart might not align, but you know what's best for. Yeah. No, I have definitely been there. Do not align at all. And I was saying this morning that it's such a hard position to be in because, and I know that you do this too, you take so much of your kids' feelings into consideration when you're making adult decisions. And so it's a really hard place to be to know that he has been very vocal. about how he feels and what he thinks is best for me,

and we just have that type of relationship. And while I am taking everything that he is saying into consideration and heavily into consideration, I think it's probably best for me to just take a pause, take a beat, start therapy, and make the actual decisions that need to be made maybe later down the road and just kind of, hey, I need to be a little.

on pause for a second. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Like that's, I mean, that's the other thing. And I have talked to my kids about plenty of things over the years. That's one of the things that I've said to my kids, not just in regards to relationships, but just in life is like some things do not have to be decided right this second. And some things, it doesn't matter what you say or what you do. Whatever is going to be will be.

And whatever we force right now or we force ourselves to make a decision right now will end up being whatever it's going to be regardless. And that goes for so many things. But trying to actually apply that to your life is way harder. It's easier said than done. It's easier to say it to somebody than apply it yourself. Yeah. I just think I have recognized a pattern in myself of allowing unhealthy things.

And this goes across the board, whether it be former employees or relationships or past relationships. I have allowed a pattern of unhealthy things and have recognized those things were unhealthy and still allowed them. And I have to figure out how to get out of the pattern of allowing unhealthy things and responding in an unhealthy way. Yeah, I mean, you can't do better until you know better. And sometimes the rewiring and things like that of your brain will help. I don't know. I might be in Atlanta getting an EDMR or EMDR, whatever. it's called. I might be in there doing that right after you. Girl, me and you with our rapid eye movement and that theory.

I'm not seeing Tyice Gibson on your podcast on the Southern Tea? I don't know. Am I? I think you are. I think you're having, her name's Tyase Gibson and she does, she talks about the four, the attachment theory and like the different types of attachment. And that'll be really good for you too, because once you can identify which one you are, not to label yourself, but like to heal. certain aspects of that. Like when I had her on the other day,

and she gave me a lot of information about, like, what type of attachment style I have. And like, once you know, you'll be able to fix some of the things. Obviously, I'm not saying it's going to be easy to fix, but she gives you tools to fix it. It's so interesting that you even said that because when I was in Dallas and also want to address this as well, I saw rumblings on the internet of theories of who our special guests were in Dallas,

like our live audience. And I just think if I'm going to be fully transparent, then I just need to do that. It was David. And it was Ike. Well, they weren't going to be on stage with us. No, I'm saying when we were in Dallas, recently. Oh, oh, oh.

Who were the live audience? Oh, and there were other, for those of you listening and not watching, it wasn't just David and Ike. There were other people as well, but David and Ike were there in the recording studio with us and just supporting us.

So it's really interesting. I just, I wanted to address that part, but while we were there, obviously that was so quick. after what had transpired on February the 13th, that I think I was in a state of shock, truly still, and just trying to get through every day at that point. I don't think anyone blames you for that, Lindsay.

So I don't want you to be too hard on yourself. It just sucks because also, and this is so relevant to anybody, whether you're running a 9 to 5 or you know, you're a stay at home mom or you're a podcast girly. like us, like real life shit is happening and you still have to show up. And that sucks. I said if I could just take a month to just like go to therapy, work on myself, figure my stuff out, but like life doesn't work like that.

And that's like not to bring up Elijah, obviously, because people can watch all of that on Patreon. But truly like when I was going through, it's very similar to what you're dealing with right now. of the hardest fucking things was I had to pick myself up regardless and I still have to make sound decisions for my kids, which if anyone, you know, is human that's listening to this, knows that it doesn't even have to be your partner cheating or, you know, a relationship thing, just like hard things in life unrelated to your kids. You still have to parent through every single one of them. And that aspect of it is not talked about enough.

So while we were there, um, after some of our recordings, we went back to the hotel room and I just, I kind of just wanted to be left alone and be quiet. But then I went on the attachment project because I wanted to know what my attachment style was. And it's so interesting because it says that I have a secure attachment style, but in my romantic attachment style, because it breaks it down like your attachment style with your mother, your attachment style with your father. In my romantic attachment style, I am anxious preoccupied. Oh, she didn't tell me about anxious preoccupied.

She told me about, and she'll probably talk to you about it. I like literally wrote it down. The three, the four, secured attached attachment, anxious attachment, dismissive avoidant, and fearful avoidant. Those were the four. And then there's like, when you talk to her, if you end up having her on, you're going to be like, what in the world? Gonna rock my world. Every student learns differently, and that's something to celebrate. So if you're looking for something different, maybe not a traditional classroom setting for your child, we want to share K-12 powered schools.

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That's better. So like I said, it breaks it down. So we can post the link on how to go on and like do this quiz or whatever for anybody who's interested. But it says your romantic attachment style is anxious preoccupied. With an anxious preoccupied style, you are likely to be someone who is sensitive to the needs of romantic partners so much that it may lead you to feel insecure or doubt their commitment to you. You may need more reassurance from your partner to feel safe in the relationship and may require greater clarity and emotional availability from those you enter into relationships. romantic connections with. It is important that you learn to build a stable sense of security within yourself in order to reduce dependency that you may have on others to build healthier

patterns of relating to others and romance. And I just thought that that was very interesting to me. And maybe your attachment style, and I don't know, when I have her on, then I can go through this. But is your attachment style based off of past history of things? Your attachment style is from your childhood and your parents. Okay. So where how basically, and she'll explain it way better than me, but it's basically like what I wrote down is like how your parents handled the relationship with you. So for example, securely attached means that your parents were most likely very attuned with your with the child. They approached the child.

They were soothing to the child. They met all their needs, all the things. That is, and what she said was that half of America, I think she said, is like securely attached, which is so fascinating to me because I have yet meet half of the people in my life are not securely attached. And so usually people with securely attached relationships, they do not, they do not ignore red flags. They have boundaries. They have certain standards, which clearly I don't have. Anxious attachment is more of like inconsistency growing up. up. So there's specific wounds, perceived abandonment, right? So like one example she gave was like,

if a, if a parent is working all the time. And I got really nervous about this because I'm thinking of myself working and my kids and things like that. And so they're really good with their kids. And they have, you know, they're attuned when they're there, when they're home, but then they go away to work. So that, so the child is sometimes. And I brought up the point too. I was like, well, in today's society, we don't have one parent staying home. We have both parents working. Both parents working overtime, both parents working more than one job. And so there's big stressors now. And I'm like, I don't understand. And she said, well, that would be anxious attachment. And so yikes. And so this sort of starts like the child will adapt to this. But this is where

people pleasing comes in. So sometimes though people please, because you don't want the love taken away. And it's nobody's fault. People have to work. You know what I mean? And then obviously you can be inconsistent and it not be related to work. The next one is dismissive avoidant. There's a lot of childhood emotional neglect here. This is what I thought I was until I got to the last one. This one is the child grows up feeling like they're broken. They want connection. They feel weak. They feel powerless. They don't want to be vulnerable around people. Maybe their parents didn't meet their food needs or maybe their parents weren't really home. There's a lot of emotional neglect. And so these kids grow up to have hyper-independence. They have difficulty with

feelings. They don't want to show their feelings. They have unintentional stonewalling. So it's not intentional. It's not intentional. But they feel a lot, they feel good with a lot of validation and appreciation. And then the last one, which is me, is fearful avoidant. So this is big T trauma, very turbulent childhoods, fear in childhood, trigger warning stuff, abuse, neglect, all the things. Sometimes the parents are narcissistic, alcoholics, drug addicts. And then they have extreme opposites with parental behavior. So that's confusing to the child. So like for me, small, small, small glimpses of Susie, right? But like, I don't know what your parents were to you. But for this, this is like, we don't know if love is good or bad. So when love is good, it's like,

okay, great, but we've talked about you and I have talked about in the past. Like, we basically self-sabotage our relationships for the fear of getting hurt. Well, if I hurt them before they hurt me, then I'm protecting myself. Like, that's more like fearful avoidant. And a lot of times, fearful avoidance end up with other fearful avoidance, but sometimes like it depends which way you lean. Like I'm fearful avoidant, but I lean towards anxious. So all, but these, all of these things can, you can apply them to Jackson. So like you can think about that with like therapy and things. Like you'll be able to decide like, okay, you want to create this secure attachment with Jackson. And then you can also look at your dynamic with him and see like where he's at and you can correct it.

She said that you can heal it. Like if no matter which one you are, you can heal them. It just you have to know which one you are in order to heal it. Well, it's so interesting that you're saying that now, too, because I told him, like, hey, and this was just yesterday before dinner, I said, hey, you need to learn to outwardly express some of your emotions because I know that you're feeling and thinking things and it's okay to say them, but let's remember to be respectful whenever you're delivering whatever the message is. And so there's just like a lot.

of stuff going on and I have said all of this not to make coffee convo's podcast today a trauma dump but at the same time I feel like it's important to address these things to publicly acknowledge these things and to also acknowledge that I don't even know we're mentally and emotionally that I am and I'm going to take everything day by day and I hate that mentality because I like an answer, and I think a lot of people are like that. They just want a solid answer to be able to move forward, and I don't have that. That's the hardest thing, too, like, the hardest. Everything's the hardest thing.

Wanting answers, but like also power in the pause. It's like kind of what I was saying a few minutes ago is like, it doesn't matter what answer we get. That might not be what it is. If we're forcing it and we're just trying to like solve it just to say it solves so that it feels like it's, you have to sit with this discomfort. Like we don't need to have answers all the time. And that's kind of what like before we were going to Dallas and you weren't sure if you were going to bring David or not.

Like I'll be honest, I with everybody here like listening, I told Lindsay that if she wanted to have David there, that was more than okay with me. I would not judge her for it. I also told her she didn't have to give him an answer. She didn't have to give us an answer. We don't need an explanation for whatever it is that you decide. I want to support you and whatever that looks like. And I know, you know, especially in one of my most. toxic relationships I've ever been in, you were somebody who constantly supported me and didn't

say one way or the other. And like, we could know what we think is best for you. Like, we could be like, okay, we know that that's not going to work out. Or we know that is going to work out. Or we know they'll get back together, you know, whatever. But ultimately, that is for you to decide. And so I just want to support your decision, whatever that looks like. Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to say I don't care, but like, it's not my business. Like, my job is only to support you. I'm just like so thankful for the people that genuinely have been the same issue, because ultimately as adults, we have to make our own decisions. And when you have friends in your life that are trying to make decisions for you, even though it's coming from a good place,

it might not be where you are in that moment. And people also have to remember if they're not romantically tied to somebody, their decision making would look, very different than you being romantically tied to that person. Right. They can make a decision based off of just logic. Yeah. No, I mean, I would agree with you. I mean, if it was all this easy, we would just do whatever we need to do and we wouldn't

need therapy. It's not, it's not always as easy as everyone wants to say it is. So I'm not even kidding. I felt like a full-blown crash out this morning. And I was just trying to get my kid to school. and like single moms can probably very much relate to this that like you're going through stuff and you still have to get your kids up and you still have to pack the lunchbox and you still have to drive them to school or put them on the bus or whatever that looks like and it's like then you're

allowed to cry whenever they get out of the car and I was like oh my god I have a Pilates class at nine o'clock but guess who's not going me because I don't have the emotional availability to show up and even be able to do that so I'm like I'm just going to book look a nail appointment after coffee convos because now that's going to be a therapy session and I'm going to go get my nails done and then I'm going to go to a stretch class at 5 p.m. because I have nothing else to do and then tomorrow looks like a self-care day and therapy is self-care. Well, I mean, that's all you that's all it can. I mean, therapy is self-care and there's no way to get through this without it. It sounds like so I support it. I fully support your healing journey and I'm actually

curious to see how it all goes for you because I want to do the same. I think that you need to go on your insurance and possibly find a therapist that specializes in trauma because everything that I have read, the talk therapy just was not doing enough. It's just a slow. I think I said this to you last episode. And if I didn't, I'm going to say it again. My childhood was so tumultuous.

and I know that you had some struggles to talk therapy is great. I think everybody should do it, but I also think that sometimes it's not enough and we have to do a little bit more. Yeah, and that's what led me to find a therapist that like specializes in the areas that I need. And so whether that be you've been divorced or you came from a divorced household or you have relationships with your parents that like don't look the greatest and you're having to make hard decisions. and then you've had trauma in your adult life, just find the right type of therapist.

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Her collection tends to sell out pretty quickly. So if there's something that catches your eye, please do not wait too long to grab it. I did several trions with Fabletics. You guys can go over to the Coffee Combos Instagram to see any of the trions. Lindsay has also posted pictures and hers. Fabletics already has incredible deals. And we've got an exclusive offer just for our listeners. get 80% off of everything, including the Chloe Collection, when you sign up as a new VIP.

Just head to fabletics.com slash coffee combos and take a quick style quiz. Be sure to select coffee combos when prompted to unlock your 80% off. That's fabletics.com slash coffee combos. I just need to talk to you about the drama that's coming out of freaking Utah because I have been so invested after last episode, we talked about Taylor, Frankie Paul and that entire situation. But then I get on social media last night and see where one of the other girls was just on caller daddy.

Jesse. First of all, I'm going to reiterate. I do not watch the show. I did not know who these girls were except for Taylor, Frankie Paul. I did learn who Miranda Hope was from your podcast. And then I found out who Jesse Draper is. I've never seen them on the show. I've never seen Jesse on TikTok, but she is gorgeous.

I don't know who she is. I don't know what her story is, but she is stunning. She is absolutely gorgeous. And I saw a couple of the clips from the Caller Daddy episode that she did. And she said that basically her ex-husband had ran to the courthouse and filed for divorce after she had let him know that that was like her final decision and that that's what they were going to do. And then basically sold that information to TMZ. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. wait. Jessie Draper found out through the internet that she was getting divorced.

That's what it said on caller or daddy. That is disgusting to me. I, that is so fucking disgusting to me. The men, you, like, what is going between Taylor Frankie Paul's ex or whatever the fuck he is to her, Dakota? And now Jesse Draper's man, like, that is so disgusting and disturbing. And truly they need to be far, far away. So I was actually watching a. TikTok of Jordy. And he was like, we need production boots on the ground in Utah right now.

Like not filming this is not going to go well for any of us because they have literally broken the internet essentially for two solid weeks. It is crazy. So I was saying the Jesse Draper stuff because the allegations that she has made or it has been alleged that he had hired escorts and she had found out that information. And then allegedly she had had an affair while in the marriage as well and that he would hold stuff over her, like he would hold stuff over her head regarding her alleged affair and had it like in a TikTok draft. So when they would get an argument, he would be like, I'm going to post it. I'm going to

post it. And so. extortion. That is literally abuse. So allegedly he was doing that. And she finally said that she had just had enough and had made a decision and she's been sleeping at a hotel. She was the purchaser of the house. He is remaining in the house with the minor children. And she's leaving the house? And she is staying at a hotel. Okay. So all of this transpires. She's been on caller daddy. The divorce stuff is like now all public. And then as of this morning, I saw that she, Jessie was at a birthday party for some friends and Miranda. Like an adult birthday party? What? Like an adult birthday party? Yeah, an adult birthday party. And Miranda Hope, husband, or ex-husband, Chase was also at said party.

supposedly they were seen being like cuddly and flirting and whatever and then the next report came out that someone had video of them kissing Jesse and Chase who is Miranda Hope's ex-husband. So I'm like what the actual hell is in a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me follow the bouncing ball and Lisa just sent in the chat. Okay. So Jesse goes on call her daddy. Yes. Jesse's husband is the one that was publicly divorcing her, whatever, whatever. Are Jesse and Miranda friends? Yes. But now Jesse was allegedly seen kissing Miranda's ex-husband.

Yes. And so the drama is like all unfolding all over TikTok, Instagram, like everywhere. And allegedly Miranda's ex-husband, Chase has hooked up with Taylor, another girl in the show. I can't remember what her name is. There's been like at this point for girls. And I'm not saying that a kiss is a hookup. But I'm just like, where is the loyalty here?

And I also want to ask, are ex-husbands off limits to friend group? Wait, time out. So were any of these girls, Jesse and Miranda, were they also involved in the swinging, the soft swinging or whatever it was? I don't think that Jesse was, but I know that Miranda and Taylor and Taylor's ex-husband and Miranda's ex-husband were all involved in that. I'm going to say this right now. The picture, I only saw one picture of whoever Chase is, right? Chase is not that cute to be getting all these girls. Like I'm just going to say that. Like, again, I only saw one. I only saw one picture, but he's not that good looking. So, and it's, If it didn't work out with your friend, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it probably

won't work out with you. So then as I'm following all of this stuff this morning with just tears rolling down my eyes and it's not that I want to like get invested in somebody else's downfall in their trauma, but I see on Miranda's Instagram where she posts flowers where Jesse had sent her flowers as an apology after this news came out that she had kissed her ex-husband and Liz is in the chat saying

Chase is the Utah mattress, I'm sorry. She's not cute. And it's just like, okay, you guys now are all co-workers to some degree, you know, on a reality show. You're a friend group. You already know the amount of trauma that transpired with the whole swinging situation.

and now we're just out here kissing ex-husbands. Like, I'm sorry, but ex-husband should just be off limits to the friend group. Lindsay, if you, if you kissed Hobby or if I kissed Will, there would be no business. There would be no, like, you and I would not have a, like, I don't care. And I don't want to be with hobby. I have no romantic feelings. I know at all. But it's just like, that's just not something that we know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Miranda is my Fave Mormon wife and most of my friends favorites. She deserves much better. That's from Lissa. She just said, I haven't watched it. I know who they are now. And like I said, I still stand down on the fact that it's a flex that I've never seen this show and I know who these people are. Like for them, it's a flex for them. Um, Jesse, first of all, I think she's so gorgeous and Chase is not even up to her standards, um, at all. It's got to be his personality. And I, I have watched his TikTok. And I'm like, okay, I can kind of see like the chase lore. However, how many times does this girl, and when I say this girl, Miranda, how many times do these other women get to hook up with her ex-husband and she just continues to take the high road? Because I can tell you right now, if I was a Mormon and I was on secret lives of Mormon wives and somebody, four different people had hooked up with my ex-husband,

there would be no show. There would be done. And I'm just like, if Taylor, Frankie Paul, she repaired that relationship. Miranda repaired that relationship with Taylor. Okay. Then she is kind of best friends with another girl that had previously dated Chase

conducts herself in a way that, I don't even, I don't even know how she does it. Because like you said, truly, like you said, if I kissed Javi or you kissed Will, there is no coffee combos podcast. No, coffee combo. I would not handle myself with grace. I would be, I mean, I don't know. Like, now that I'm like, say, I'm like, ah, if you kissed Javi.

And, like, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to Lauren, you know, like by having that conversation. But, like, if you did, like at this big eight, I, I'm like, I don't know. I would be like, what the fuck? But like, are we ending an entire podcast? I don't, we have a good business here. You know, like, I don't know. Like, now that I'm sitting with it, it's like, Miranda, I hope she's sitting pretty,

like, I hope that it's worth it for her to take the high road because I think so often, like, just in life, people will take the high road and it actually doesn't benefit them the way that they, I've done it myself. So I hope for Miranda's sake that it's worth it for her, that she's taking the high road. Or maybe she's just a better fucking person than me. You know, I've always said, like, when I get into sticky situations, what is the actual high road, right? What is it?

Well, because that's the thing, though, it's just like, in this life at this age, like, what is the high road? Like, is it is the high road putting your truth out there and defending yourself? Or is the high road putting them on blast? Or is the high road keeping your mouth shut and you just know what you know and you keep it moving? Like, what is the high road? I think it might look different for everybody because I mean... That is the answer.

The high road looks different for everybody based on what you determine the high road is. Yeah. I can tell you right now, there has been multiple situations that I'm just like, I am going to be messy as fuck about this. No, at this point, I'm no longer, like, I'm not going to clear up stupid fucking rumors that are like not really touching me too much. but the bigger ones, I'll clear those up just for, like, clarity. Taking the high road is hit or miss for me. And I, that is like, it basically varies by situation. Because there are certain things where I'm like, the high road clearly hasn't worked here, right?

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Lisa.com promo code coffee. I also just need to know outside of that what you, what breaking news you had for me when we started this podcast that we have not gotten to. You're like, I've got something to tell you. Did I? Yes, that's what you said. did I say I don't remember and you're playing with a needo that I am I finally found an ice cube

needo I want the ice cube ones like not the ice cube I like this texture we have the other squishy ones that is not the vibe it's this texture specifically that I want so if anyone has a plug please let me know because I am not I don't care about the squishy ones at all um and this so Valley had to go get blood work. I don't know if I told you she's allergic to peanuts, which is this. You had told me that, but then I saw it on your Instagram story. So I've never in all my parenthood that this is why it's like you're a first, I'm just a parent for the first time. Yes, I have a 16 year old, but I'm still a parent for the first time. And so six kids before her never had a peanut allergy. We give her a chocolate covered peanut and all of a sudden she's

having an allergic reaction. So Elijah took her to the doctor. Um, I think the allergist when I was in Alabama, I believe. And so we went to go take her for blood work today to do like a full allergy panel. I don't remember the last time. I think the last time my kids got blood work was when we had that lead scare a couple years ago. Oh, I remember that. Yeah.

And so, and I don't think the twins got it at that time. I don't even know that they were born yet. So this was the first time Valley had gotten blood work. And I almost didn't go because I already knew how I was going to react to. it and Elijah was like, like, Elijah is a fucking rock star when it comes to that stuff and his mom's a nurse. So he knows exactly what to do because he's seen it and stuff like that. So funny enough, I knew the lobotomous. Lobotomist. A lobotomist. I knew the phlobotomist. I knew her son. And so she's like, oh, like, you know my son or whatever. And so we were talking a little bit.

And then they stick Valley and they can't find like they work. And so they were like, And this is not their fault. I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm not blaming them. So if anyone hears this and goes and tells her, like I'm not talking shit at all. And so they start moving it inside her skin. And then this lady that I know her son,

she's like, I don't want to keep putting her through that. We're going to have to take it out and put it back in. And I go, okay. So Elijah is like having that and all of a sudden Valley is like, mommy help help me, mommy. And I'm like, oh, I can't do this. I literally cannot do this. Like I cannot do it.

And so they end up getting it on the second which thank God. And then there's a little pharmacy in the lab, the lab core that we were at. There's a pharmacy right next to it in the same building. And so we go there and we're going to get her a push pop for her pain and suffering. Before she even got one for herself, she go, EO, I get one for EO and Versi. And so she just comes out of a traumatizing situation for her. And the first thing she's thinking about is her brothers and making sure they have a lollipop. That is absolutely so sweet. But you said that she's very, like she's very nurturing as a personality and very motherly.

Yes, she's so nurturing, so motherly, and she's so, like, we'll do anything for her siblings and I guess in her classroom too, but it just broke my heart. And she needed the blood work, but I was so close to being like, maybe we'll just sedate her, we'll like make sure that she's not, like, but that would have been even more traumatizing, I think. Like I thought maybe if we put her under so that she didn't have to feel the pain,

but you know Jackson has never he has never had labs done. Yeah, I don't. We had this conversation years ago. Some people's doctors get their labs every year or every other year. Our doctors don't do it unless we like request it and push for it. Yeah. Which I think it's very strange to me because I'm like you could catch so many things if you just did lab work every year. Like routine lab.

At what point do they actually start doing labs? in pediatric care because we've never even had a conversation or never even been approached about it at all. Only if there's a problem? Like, I don't know. And they do do a urine sample like every one of his physicals, but that really only started, I want to say maybe around like 11 or 12, they started doing the urine samples to check for like proteins or any type of irregularities, whatever in the urine.

I can tell you because I was high risk when I was pregnant with Jackson, I had to have my labs done every single time that I went to the doctor. And I had to go to the doctor way more than just like a normal pregnancy. And so now it doesn't bother me at all. Like a needle cannot scare me. Oh, see, I hate them. I can get tattooed all day, but I cannot do needles for like blood work. It just freaks me out. And I think when I was getting like labs regularly, I even am more turned off because I'm just so tired of being stuck.

But Rebecca said she thought that urine sample for sports physicals, but my kids have never had urine samples done. Really? No. Because that's what Jackson had to have it done for was for, I guess, for him to play, like within the county or whatever, they have to have a specific type of physical specifically for that. And that's when he had his. But then when he went back for his regular physical this year, they didn't ask for urine sample at all. Interesting. I don't know. I wonder if it just varies by like state or county or doc. I don't know. That's so weird. Isn't that so crazy? I want to ask you about something and I don't know that you've seen it or not. But have you heard about Gen Zers bringing parents to job interviews? No, but why? Why are they doing that? I don't know. Apparently it's like a Gen Z thing.

And Lisa, where are you? You're Gen Z. Where are you? She didn't bring, Lisa and Madison did not bring their parents to interviews with Killer Network. No, wait. Lisa, you would be fine with your mom joining in on like an adult job interview. I'm like, I'm over here like, yeah, I want Elliot to bring me to a job interview.

Come on. Let me ask him. I'm going to text him and say, would you ever bring me to a job interview? So there was an article on Newsweek that I ran across, and it says based on a survey conducted by ZETI using polefish of roughly 1,000 Gen Z workers, 20% said that a parent joined them during a job interview. It included 15% who said that this happened in person and 5% virtually. I could kind of see it virtually, right? like maybe like mom or dad is sitting like on the other side of a Zoom. But is it is it like emotional support?

Like they're just there. They're not on camera. Are they on camera? Are they being asked questions? Like I need more details. So it says why this matters. The data that one of the five Gen Z workers say that a parent has joined them and a job interview could signal a shift and how adulthood and professionalism is being

negotiated at the start of careers. Because interviews have traditionally been hard boundary between family life and professional life, hiring managers may have to rethink applicants' judgment and readiness to operate without supervision in the younger generation. Interesting. I wonder how many, like, I don't think I would judge someone. Like, if we were hiring for killer and someone was like, I'm going to my mom, this is my mom, they'd be like, okay. Kill. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I even be comfortable. Let's say my child decides that like his first job is going to be Chick-fil-A. And I'm not saying that's what it is. Right. But if that was going to be it, I would not feel comfortable sitting with my child in a job interview because shouldn't I be parenting him in a way

if he's old enough to get a job that he can conduct that on his own? I mean, yes, Lissa said I would judge someone. That's coming from someone who's Gen Z. I did text Elliott. He is a half day today, so he's not in school right now, and I just texted him and said, would you ever bring me to a job interview? Do you think as parents that this is helping or hurting Gen Z career prospects? I don't think it makes a difference. Because at the end of the day, when you look at the trajectory of Gen Z and like the type of like world and society that they're growing up in, I don't think this is helping or hurting them at all. I think that they're going to have a very unique perspective. They're just going to have unique perspective on life regardless. And then also just like their job

options are so different than even millennials, I feel, that I don't think this is going to help them or hurt them. I think it's just going to be a moot point. I think it also probably we would need to look at the parenting styles of these parents that went to these interviews, right? Because they're probably millennials. Like the parent, like, that's why, like, I'm a millennial and I'm saying, I don't give a fuck if a Gen Z person brings their parent with me to an interview. Like, I feel like my kids have kind of given me the perspective that like anything goes. And as long as this person is capable of the job, like, I don't really care how it gets done as long as it gets done and it's legal. And so for me, I don't, I would be, I'm really curious to see what the kids of Gen Zier

parents will be like. So it says, um, wait, Lisa says, that's in insane. I would judge someone. In my opinion, this is giving arrested development. Like, you need to grow up and get a job and live successfully without parents. I'm kind of like in the middle of it. I'm not, would I go to an interview for like Chick-fil-A or something like that? Absolutely not. Would I want to give my child professional guidance if I could steer them in a direction that maybe it was a decision that they couldn't make on their own? Also, yes. Yeah. I, Elliot hasn't, oh. He answered me. Let's see what he said. He said yes.

Yes, that he would bring you to a job interview? Yeah. I feel like Jackson would say no. I'm texting. There's a trend of Gen Z people bringing their parents to job interviews. I'll tell you what? Some of my kids' dads don't need to be included in those job interviews. Look at my phone notifications. Are you okay? No, I am absolutely not okay. I also wanted to kind of touch on a little bit of co-parenting, too, if we have a little bit of time. So I know that you've kind of dealt with it a little bit, and it's you have dealt with it with you having to travel for work.

Will took an outside sales job when we divorced. I remember we talked about that a little bit. And he was inside sales, and to his defense, they kind of closed one department and moved him somewhere else. I was under the impression when he did that, and it wasn't my place to even ask because we're not married anymore, right? So what he does for his income, we don't do child support and alimony and spousal support, like, whatever it is, we don't do that. So it was not my business. but I did start having questions when I realized that he was traveling so much for work. And so every time the same time of year, I know to expect it, right?

Like same time of year, it's like sales conferences. He goes out and meets clients and sometimes it falls on his parenting days. And so I tried to have a conversation with him. And I think that's why I'm also emotional today. I tried to have a conversation with him over text last night because, we just are not as great communicators as I think that maybe the public would think based off of the co-parenting relationship. We both are somewhat semi-avoidance with each other. And it's like we're just not trying to address it because we don't want to fight. We don't

want to argue. Just sweep it under the rug until somebody gets their belly too full. And then it's like explosion. Right. So Jackson very much struggles this time of year. And I've consistently tracked it since fourth grade, since Will moved, you know, to a different position and had to start traveling more. And so I just want to know your thoughts. Do you think that I am overstepping by asking Will in the future at this time next year to just let me have Jackson Monday through Friday and he can make up all of his time if he has to make up weekend time or whatever that looks like because I just need the consistency for Jackson Monday through Friday while he is in his heavy travel time.

No, I feel like that's completely reasonable. I feel like that's preparing ahead. It's anticipating needs. And it's like obviously don't have the exact dates nailed down, but it's like, hey, you know, based on the past two years or however many years, this is around the time. Like, this is what makes sense. And I think that's completely reasonable and honestly logical.

I think that he's not maybe seeing my side of it, because he doesn't want to acknowledge that he does travel a lot this time of year. And I know it's probably really hard to be like, okay, well, she's trying to take time away for me. I think that is probably because I would think that. Yeah, but if you're offering to make it, letting him make it up, I feel like if you include that, it would lessen the blow, but it's honestly not a blow at all. Like, I feel like hobby has definitely emailed me and said, hey, like, I have a conference at this time or whatever and like I don't ever hold that stuff against my kids dads like I don't care about that stuff so it's like but they'll they hold it

against me so I understand how it feels like an attack because it's like and it's not intended no for sure not um I'm going to read the text that I sent I said can we agree this time of year of travel that he just knows he will be with me on school days and you can pick him up whenever you can I'm not saying this to slight anything and I support you and your job I have just seen the same pattern and I don't want that in the future. It will also help with any type of arguing. He said no and there is no pattern. I said, will you have travel? It's not unknown. I have the records of this from fourth to sixth grade and it's the same time of year. It's healthy for all of us involved. You should know your heavy travel and you're not. And if you cannot, I need him all of the school days. I would never try to rob you of anything and you know that. Yeah. I mean, that sounds perfectly fun. So you and Will both have lived in the general area of his school so you guys can both get

Jackson to school in a timely manner. Yes. So I feel like to me that's completely reasonable. And if you end up traveling more like for example when we're on tour like you're going to some of the tour dates, if any of them fell on your time, he would be making like you could give them to him ahead of his next busy travel season. Does that make sense? So we have first right or refusal in our custody paperwork. And when he travels, he has to ask me first. And if I can't, then at that point, he can ask his parents. Right.

Same rules applied to me. I just don't have anybody else that could help. So, I mean, fortunately, but also unfortunately, my options would be Will or Will's parents also, which is also great for Jackson because it is somewhat consistent. and like familiar, I'm not trying to take any time away from him. It's just we need the consistency because it's also hard to schedule my work things around the unknown and then getting a phone call on a Friday being like, hey, I need to be out of town on a Monday.

And sales does kind of work like that. And that's just like unfortunate and the nature of the beast. But if I already have stuff scheduled on Monday, I also have to like drive to pick up from school and then drive to drop off at school. And so it cuts in to some of my work days. And so I'm just like if I just knew and that's what it was. And I'm not saying I would take away like if I had him Monday through Friday of that week and he couldn't, I would be like, yes, you can pick him up Friday after school or Saturday and have him for the weekend. Like I just don't understand why everything has to be an argument. And now this is making me think of me telling Becky on the Southern

T that you and I were going to come up with a business. that we were going to sell co-parenting plans. And she was like, essentially we're diabolical. No, I mean, we have been through enough that I think that we could at least offer a template on where to start. It's not to say that they're going to end up like us or like whatever, but like a place to start because I recently got a new family attorney. And that was one of the things that I brought up to her.

I said, you know, my friend has a co-parenting plan where, each category that is listed in, you know, I think in Georgia, it's eight. I think in Delaware, it's like six, but something along the lines of like the tiebreakers, when especially in a high, a high conflict situation, you need tiebreakers. I can't Chris and I don't even agree on, you know, what the order says, right? Like how. Like what are we supposed to do at the point that like him and I don't agree with like medical decisions or school decisions.

Like, there's no tiebreaker. So we're back in court, but you can't get a court date unless it's an emergency for six to eight months. So explain to me, you know, we actually could have a good fucking template going and a business going if we did that because we could, you know, prepare people. Jesus, I don't even, that's frustrating. I love that you guys have tiebreakers. And I want, I want to do that for my next time in court. The tiebreakers just is crazy, though. to tell you the truth, I love that it's in there. I will say that. But also, it's like,

the way that it's written is, so for me, I have education and medical, and we split religion because we're the same. And then he has the final say on extracurricular, but he has a cap that he can only enroll him in one extracurricular activity per season. So, that's just it. With the medical, I have to discuss with him and make him privy to all of the stuff, but I am the decision maker on that, and then I'm also the tiebreaker on that.

So you know what I mean? It's not really a tiebreaker when I'm already the decision maker. I see what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? Like, yes, I have to have the conversation with him. I would have to prove that I had the conversation with him, all of those things. But ultimately, I would be making the decision on that.

Right. Okay. I see what you're saying. Listen, I. We're going to come up with a business, honey. We are. We are. I said, I text you yesterday for very different reasons than this and said,

Lowry and Chris Lee and Sons. I'm going to write that down, actually. Poor Valley girl, but she's a Lowry, so it's fine. We love it. Okay, well, on that note, we need to do foul play. Oh, right. And you did just text me a foul play. So I can't wait to read it.

It's a long one. It is a long one. I'm excited. Okay. Hello, ladies. I want to be anonymous. I love the podcast and I'll go straight to the point. I really don't know how to put it in words.

I had a son in 2016 with the manager of my job I used to work out. The whole situation was toxic because he lied to me saying he was separated, but I found out he was living with his baby mama when I was pregnant. He ghosted me my whole pregnancy. When I was at the hospital, he called because I told him I was in labor. hoping he would want to come. And he said he would, but he never showed up. Oh, no.

I was one month post-sesection when I went back to work. He never found out, suspected, even brought me to a meeting to discuss the complaints, but I denied it all. And then, oh, and let me tell y'all, he was a total dog after me. He made it so obvious he was into me and even cock blocked by intimidating guys, literally telling them to stop harassing me. Oh, my God. We eventually gave in and hooked up.

Oh, I eventually gave in and hooked up with him continuously. After about a year, I started to talk to other guys to try to detach from him. And it was working until December of 2019. He passed away from COVID and sepsis. I was a total wreck. I had found out I was pregnant in his death. I had found out I was pregnant in his deathbed. I made the difficult decision to have an abortion because I knew I was going to be alone

throughout the whole pregnancy. I just couldn't go through that situation again. I went ahead and got myself into a serious relationship with one of the guys I was also talking to at that time because he had done me, he had done for me a lot like paying bills rent without asking. At times I feel bad because I miss him. He was the love of my life at some point, but now my husband is everything. It's been hard coping lately because my son is now nine and he has an older brother, 11 years old from his dad's side that he just started having a relationship with. They play Roblox and talk on the phone almost every day, but he is sometimes rude as fuck and screams at him when I hear. hear that, I tell my son to hang up because no way in hell is that acceptable. Me and his mom cannot have a decent conversation because she is petty and is currently mad that I got

survivor benefits for my son when she has been getting my son's share for five years. When I applied, they denied me and Social Security asked if he had any other kids. So I know she denied my son being his. I should have fought for his share, but I was just tired. It took a lot from me to ask his family to write letters saying that was his son. I'm glad I did it. It was very prideful about having been able, it was very prideful about having been able to take care of him without him. Can y'all give me any advice about handling her rude-ass son or is that something I have to talk to her about, which I wouldn't want to because she will automatically go into fight mode. Any advice is appreciated. This is such a sad, sad situation.

Well, my first thought is to find. out if there's a way for both children to get survivors benefits, even if that means splitting, because I don't care what the situation is between the parents. Like, both of those children deserve that. And so I'm not trying to be an asshole when I say that, but like, if anything happened to Chris and I got survivors benefits for Lux and Creed, you better believe that I would be doing whatever I need to do for Chris's other son, because ultimately that is my kid's sibling. same for the other dads obviously. I was just using that one because it's the most tumultuous.

I don't necessarily think that there's anything you can really do about someone else's son being rude. I think you just teaching your son boundaries like you did. Okay, if he's screaming at you or if he's being rude to you, you need to hang up. That is it. I don't think that you can let the mom know, but to your point, everything would feel like an attack at that point. And I don't know if that would be helpful or not. Like you can mention it. But I think ultimately just teaching your son to set boundaries.

is the way to start. I also think a lot of times kids pick up on behaviors of their parents, and it very much sounds like based off of this entire dynamic that the one child that's being rude is overhearing or being told certain things that would cause those actions. Yeah, I definitely would agree with that. I also just like, I think we've all been in a toxic, situation or relationship. And that's very much what this sounds like it was.

And to be in that, to be back with that person for them to die, that is a whole, like, that is a whole handful of trauma. Yeah, because grief is complicated enough once you add a toxic relationship into that. It's like, okay, that doesn't mean there's no grief, right? Like, there's still grief there. there's still like and probably even more confusing grief because you're like, okay, I loved this person, but I also recognized how toxic it was. Why do I love this person? Why am I grieving this person? They were not good to me. But that just goes to show that like life truly isn't black

and white. It's not cut and dry the way that people wish it was and sometimes I wish it was. That type of grief is the type of grief that makes you question yourself and your whole existence. and that just sucks because I have definitely been there. Actually, I'm currently there. So understood. Understood. With that being said, it was such a great therapy session with you today. I love you so much.

I love you so much. And y'all don't forget to go book your tour tickets. There's no password. Presale is over. So they're open to everyone. And you can go to kale-laugree.com and click the tour button. And there is all 20 cities. There is Canada and London.

London. Lindsay is joining me on some of the tour dates. So you will be able to see her as well. And so you guys can go check those out. And let us know if you have any questions. Thank you guys for always supporting our show. Please subscribe and review on the Apple Podcast app. Follow and rate on Spotify or listen wherever you get your pods. For our latest merch, visit coffee combos podcast.com to shop. Full video episodes are available on Kail's Patreon at patreon.com slash Kale Lowry. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community. We are so thankful for you guys and we'll talk to you next week. See ya. Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour.

We're super excited for the fatherless behavior tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kale.lawery.com. And if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else. Hey, quick question. Why do you keep thinking you can change that man? I mean, you are not his mother. Let someone else change that poopy diaper and focus on yourself. Hi, everyone. I'm Vila Benson, your Russian vix sister and an almost adulting Vila Benson. I give you that tough love, dating advice, and reality checks that you didn't ask for, but you absolutely

need. We talk relationships, confidence, mental health, boundaries, and how to finally stop settling for crumbs. You deserve better, babe, and it starts with me. So new episodes, every Thursday, come hang out with me, follow rate and review, almost adulting, wherever you get your podcasts. Thousands of free movies and TV shows. We're coming at you with everything we got.

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