Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Tipping Culture

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

CC499: On today's episode, Kail and Lindsie abruptly find out about the death of Dolly Parton, which pivots the conversation to the allegations of Michael Jackson and the bizarre psychology of marrying convicted felons behind bars. Kail opens up about her experience with Prison AND Jail Bae (yes, those are two different people).Lindsie reads a wild hometown gossip story about a cat hoarding heist that ended in a police chase around a small town, plus, they both recount surviving the financial and emotional exhaustion of "Yes Days". Lindsie debates whether rescuing your kid from the other parent's "lazy day" is an overstep, and they break down a viral TikTok perm nightmare that escalated into full-blown internet cancellation.Send in your small-town drama, HOA sagas, diner/local business chaos, and multi-generational family feuds, to [e-mail] for our Small Town Gossip segment! For full videos head to Youtube.com/@KailandtheChaosThank you for checking out our sponsors!Chime: Join the millions who are already banking fee free today at Chime.com/COFFEEQuince: Right now, go to quince.com/coffee for free shipping and 365-day returns.RoBody: Find out if you’re covered for free at ro.com/coffeeconvosRocket Money: Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com/COFFEECONVOSSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is coffee convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsay Crisley. I really want you to be in your feels, Kail. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye.

I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning. And welcome back to another episode of Coffee Convo's podcast. How are we doing? I am medicated and taking, I'm down rabbit holes of my spreadsheets right now and I'm like, now I'm not going to be able to get out of it. Well, we abruptly ended our last podcast episode.

We are in New York together and feel like we have just been going on tangents and realize how long we had recorded. And so we are on a continuation and we left off where Kiel had been in London and Paris. And so I'm just going to continue asking questions. Would you live there for a few months if you could? And then I have a secondary part of that question. Yes, I would. Not specifically Leicester Square, London. I would like to explore other parts.

But I think what people don't understand, they're like, oh, you should go look at other parts, you know, whatever. You should come here. You should come there. I was tied to a soccer schedule. So I had to be where I had to be. Would love to explore other parts of London, other parts of England. and yes, live there for a few months to do those things.

Okay. Second part of that, is there anywhere else in the United States that you would take your kids to live for the months that they're out of school? Yes, I would love that. But where? Everywhere. I'd love to do different countries. And I've talked about that.

I said in the United States. Oh, yeah. Well, different states. Like, I've never been to Utah. That would be cool to go spend a month in Utah. I've never, my kids have never been there. I've never been there at Lake Tahoe. Like, could you imagine if I just was, like, taking them places?

for a month out of every summer. It would be so nice. I have considered bringing Jackson or New York City for an entire summer. It was like a wild hair that I had after I went through divorce. And I was like, oh, we should just get like a little apartment for three months in the summer and just go explore New York City. No. Culture shock for us, for sure.

I would not spend weeks or months in New York City. I would spend months in New York City. I would spend months in Boston. I would spend months in Chicago, would love to go and explore Montana, would love to go to Utah. There's a lot of places I would spend a month, but New York is not one of them.

I think it's because you're so used to coming now. I've been coming to New York since I was a kid. So it's not like a thrill for you. No. Like there was a point right out of high school. I was coming every weekend to New York. You would think that you were a kill if you loved New York and that couldn't be like further from the truth.

You're a Lindsay if you love New York. Breaking news, Dolly Parton died. Wait, what? Wait, are you serious? Yes. Did you make this up? No. I'm devastated.

Oh my God. No. How did this happen today? Is there any like... No specific cause was immediately provided, though she had dealt with undisclosed health challenges and recent health declines in the prior year. Oh, yeah.

Her Instagram posted a video. That's horrendous. And also isn't that Miley Cyrus's like godmother or something? Yes. That's so sad. How do we go from there? Like that is a legend lost. Hayden Penitier and Dolly Parton in the same week is crazy.

Crazy. Crazy. It's a crazy week. Wow. The fact that Kale broke the news about Dolly Parton is crazy. Isn't there an amusement park for her? Yeah. Dollywood.

Yeah. I wonder if it'll like skyrocket and tickets now because people. I mean, I don't think Dollywood's really suffering by any means. I never went. I've never been to Dollywood either, but I'm pretty sure my mom's parents have like season ticket passes to go to Dollywood. And lots of people go.

We should definitely take our kids to Dollywood. I'm down. Damn. Rest in peace for Dolly. So sad. Like no one ever prepares for death. And it makes me so sad because Dolly's in the same age range. My nanny's a couple years older than her.

but in the same age range is that. And like just just thinking about death in that regard with somebody that you're so close to and hold so deeply close to your heart, it's like how do you move on? You don't. I think people are still not over Michael Jackson's death. Yeah, where were you when Michael Jackson died? I don't know where I was when Michael Jackson died. Oh, I remember.

You remember? Michael Jackson died, yeah. Where were you? In high school. 2009, right? Yeah, I was in high school. Oh, I'm also in college then. And that one was rough.

I also wasn't a huge Michael Jackson fan then. I wasn't super privy to like, like I knew some songs. Yeah. But what's crazy is that kids that were not around when he exists, when he was alive, no, like the reason why I know as much as I know now is because of my kids. Yeah. Like Valley. Like a big Michael Jackson fan either.

Even now? Even now. Oh, see now? like we have Michael Jackson on in the house even before the movie came out like Lux and Creed were going out in public in his costumes like I was taking them to Lincoln's football games in Michael Jackson costumes

Oh wow And that was years ago so and then now I mean Valley is Big fan You and then they fight over what song it is And so like it's Michael Jackson is a lot Like he needs to come back from the dead because of my children I don't think he abused those children

I hold a completely different opinion about that It's a hot topic. It is a very hot topic. I genuinely do believe that. Why? Because I think there have been so many things that substantiate those claims. There wasn't, though. What about the multiple victims?

But some of them reneged and said that they were told to say that by their parents. Like they came out publicly and said that they did not get abused. Some of them have come, well, they've all come out as adults. I don't know. I definitely believe in my heart that there was some funny business for sure. Why would you be sleeping in the bed with a kid that's not yours? I think that's odd to me. Well, where were the parents, too? I think a lot of it was for kids that were sick, terminally ill, other childsards. But you have to think of like Michael Jackson's maturity himself. What, like, there are allegedly experts on both sides of the spectrum saying that it is possible that Michael Jackson was on the

spectrum. Not saying that somebody on the spectrum can't be a child predator, but I'm thinking of like where his maturity and maybe stunted maturity sat versus where people expected him to be. I think that he had a very, like he was very in touch with his childlike side. And so he had like the rides and the animals and wanted to do the things and, you know, I don't know. I mean, I get that. And all of his kids said that he was such a good dad. So like to me, I just, I don't know. I'm not saying it's not possible, but based on the kids coming forward saying that they were told by their parents to say this leads me to believe that they saw dollar signs and they wanted to take advantage of the situation.

I mean, I think that's a plausible explanation, but I'm also not buying it. And I think that two things can be true. He could have been very in touch with, you know, his childlike side and maybe maturity. stunted but if that what has been accused actually went on there is no excuse for that regardless of childlike or the the stunting of the maturity like no I agree there's a due diligence as an adult regardless and and the amount of money that he was making and the things that he had access to if if there was any question of stuff like that why weren't there safeguards that were were placed around if that was the case.

Like, why are we having sleepovers with young boys in the same bed? I just find that odd. I don't actually think, if I remember correctly, I don't think that that ended up being true that it was like just him and the child in the beds. I don't think that's actually how it went. Is that not what was reported? I'm pretty sure that's what was reported. Okay, I just asked, I just Googled it.

It says, what we know for certain. Jackson himself publicly acknowledged that he shared a bed with children in his 2003, 60 minutes interview with Ed Bradley. He said that he had slept in bed with children and defended the practice. He also said in the particular 2003 incident involving a 12-year-old boy, he slept on the floor while the boy slept in the bed. There were also multiple children who later testified that they had shared a bed with Jackson. So if the question is, did Michael Jackson ever sleep in the same bed as a child?

The answer is yes. That's not merely an allegation made by an accuser. Jackson himself acknowledged it. But here's where it gets complicated. That doesn't establish that he sexually abused those. children. In fact, some of the children who were closest to him, including McCulley Culkin, Robson, and Barnes, they explicitly denied that Jackson sexually abused them at the time they testified. Jackson was also acquitted of all criminal charges in 2005. At the same time, there were other

allegations from children who said that the relationship did become sexual. Those allegations are a separate question from whether the bed sharing itself happened. And then there's an interesting wrinkle. Jackson sometimes described the arrangement as him giving the child a bed and sleeping on the floor while other testimony described situation where Jackson and the child were actually in the same bed. Both things appeared to have happened at different times. The bottom line is Michael Jackson slept in the same bed as the children. True, every child who slept in his bed was sexually abused, not supported by evidence. And then Michael Jackson never slept in bed with children also false. So if you're asking because you've been watching never leaving Neverland or trying to figure out

the parts of the allegation against Jackson if they were proven versus what was disputed, I can break that down. But there are the kids that were their parents said to do that, they said that he did not abuse them. But do you think that there's a world where there could have been bed sharing and some people could testify that they weren't abused and others could testify that they were? And that doesn't change the fact that potentially the ones that testified that they were actually were. Because an abuser doesn't always abuse everyone. That's true. Whether he abused a child or not, you still may have to, like, even if he was 100% innocent, there is still a chance that you're going to pay somebody out.

So, Wade Robson, do you know who that is? No. Wade Robson was a choreographer, the dancer. I think he was in the movie, you got served maybe. It was a backup dancer and among other things. Originally defended Michael Jackson during trial saying he did not touch me and then later on changed his story and said he did. To me, it would be the opposite.

it. You're saying I was touched because there's a court hearing and he's going to get in trouble for this. Why would you come out after the fact and say, yes, he did? Because you saw that other people got paid out. Is that why? That's why I'm sketchy to believe some of these people. I think also in a courtroom setting and something that sensitive, maybe that there was a fear around the legalities of things and maybe to say one thing and then backtrack it, I don't think that that negates the fact that it could be true. I don't know. Like sometimes I'm not saying you're wrong. I typically want to believe the victim, but I also understand that in with this level of money and fame and the payout potential, there is a higher possibility that the it wasn't true. But Michael Jackson set

the standard for people to even possibly falsely come forward when he did a $23 million dollar payout. Like at what point do you question why you would pay out someone $23 million? Well, because it was doing such damage to the reputation, but it's not true. But also there's the Casillo, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. The Casillo siblings just now in 2026 are saying that several members were sexually assaulted. I also find that hard to believe because you mean to tell me he's been dead for over 15 years. years, or has it been 15 years? I think it's been over 15 years. You're just now coming forward and he abused multiple people in the same family and you guys are just now coming forward.

Says this is where the story gets really complicated. Some of the people who now say Jackson abused them previously said the exact opposite under oath or publicly. What Wade Robson is the most striking example. He testified in 2005 that Jackson had never sexually abused him. He later said that as a child, he had been groomed and that he didn't understand what happened to him until much later. While, meanwhile, McCulley Culkin, Brett Barnes, and several other children who spent significant time with Jackson have continued to deny that Jackson ever abused him, abused them. So there are genuinely two very different groups of firsthand accounts, people who say nothing sexual ever happened and people who say I was abused. So I mean, yeah, you could be right. Two things can be true.

Some people were and some people weren't. And legally, there is another important distinction. Jackson was never convicted of sexually abusing a child. He was acquitted of all charges in the 2005 criminal trial. The 1995 case ended in a civil settlement rather than a criminal conviction. So it's not to say it's true or not true, but like at the end of the day, the payout was done because for me, if that was my child, I'm not settling for any amount of money if you sexually abuse them. So to me, it's like you could get in trouble for this.

You may not have done it, but you could get in trouble for it. So we'll take the payout instead. Do you get what I'm saying? I mean, I get where you're coming from. I'm just saying regardless of reputational damage, I don't think paying somebody out $23 million, even if it is for, you know, reputational damage, it still looks bad to me either way. Yeah, for sure. I mean, ultimately, I get that.

I have my opinion. You have yours. I'm sure the listeners will either be 50-50 or sway one side. I probably could be swayed either way. You could be swayed either way. Probably. with the right, because you know, documentaries always have their angle. If I watched one documentary saying he's innocent and I watched another documentary saying

like why they think he's guilty or that he shouldn't have been acquitted, I could probably be swayed. It's like Lacey Peterson. You watch the right documentary and you think that you know that Scott did it. And then you watch a different one where you're like, hmm, there's reasonable doubt there. Life adds up so fast. A trip here, a dinner there, a couple of concerts, all the fall activities, which had me wondering if I'm getting the most out of my money. And that is where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way people bank. They're not like traditional banks that love to gatekeep the best rewards and pile on hidden fees unless you have a massive balance.

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By the way, completely not new news, but did you see where Chris Watts is apparently getting married or is married? Absolutely not. And I'm like, what in the actual hell? I did not know he was getting married. There was like photos, I guess, of his now wife or soon to be wife. I think there's going to be like a court hearing if he can get married or if he can't. What is the point of that? Like, I guess for me, like, there's a, there's a curiosity around, like, murder and true crime. And we've talked about it before.

But, like, what is the psychology behind wanting to marry or have some crush or obsession with a murderer? Like, what, I have a curiosity in, like, I want to pick your brain, but I do not want to fall in love with a murderer. I'm just wondering if it's people with personalities and this is just like an assumption is it people with personalities that are fixers? Like they think that they can like fix that person through the relationship and that's what feeds them. No, because I'm like that and it has nothing to do with murderers. Is there conjugal visits in state prisons?

Some. Depends on the state. I don't know if there is any. I think so. Because I'm also like obviously I know that there's more to marriage than having. sex, but at that point, why would you do it? Yes. A few U.S. states still allow what are commonly called conjugal visits, although they generally call them extended family visits or family reunion visits. As of 2026, the states generally identified as having some form of overnight or

private family visitations are California, New York, Washington, and Connecticut. Interestingly, California's program isn't technically just sex with your spouse. California's rules. specifically describe these as overnight family visits, and eligible visitors can include a spouse, domestic partner, parents, children, or siblings, not simply just a sexual partner. There are also significant exclusions. For example, California excludes people with sex offense convictions, people on death row, people in reception centers, and people under certain disciplinary restrictions. And federal prisons do not permit conjugal visits. I knew that. So that means that was Chris Watts from California? It was California?

No. No. He was, where was he from? Scott Peterson was Modesto, California. Yes. I don't remember where Scott, where Chris Watts was from. Maybe Colorado. Yeah, Colorado. So, so also, he wouldn't be eligible for conjugal visits anyway. No, you killed your wife and kids. Well, I mean, I get that, but I'm saying the state that he's like incarcerated in, like, doesn't permit. How do they determine whether you're going to go to prison in your own state or another state because I've seen people be transferred out of the state so like what determines that well depends or like if it's state well if it's state or federal so like in the federal system if you are convicted federally of a crime then you go to um like you can be sentenced to anywhere in the southeast region or something and

however many prisons are there based off of the amount of bed space, your attorneys can request through your pre-sentencing report where they would like to see you go, but doesn't always mean that that's granted. I think with state stuff, I think it's this state prison. Like they go to this, I wonder where, let's find out. Because Delaware only has prisons. We don't have jails. Isn't it crazy to say housed? Housed? Where are they housed? Where are they? Oh, in Wisconsin. He was transferred from Colorado to Wisconsin shortly after his 2018 conviction because of security concerns. Yeah, so like I guess.

But he was initially in the Colorado state prison. My friend Kelsey works in one of the prisons in Delaware, and they get out of state transfers. You can if there's a reason for them being transferred. It could be like medical security reasons. It is a mental illness though, circling back. to sidetrack, but I think it's definitely something that needs to be studied on why someone would participate in marrying someone like Chris Watts in prison. Like, what are you gaining out of that, too? Like, I could see myself being a pen pal with somebody that had committed a heinous crime

for the sole fact of wanting to pick their brain to see, like, what they would tell me. Yeah. or doing a prison visit, actually talk to PR about getting me media credentials to go into prisons. That's been our idea for like a year. Susie from Wave used to do that. She's talked to Yolanda. She's talked to VTK. She's talked to all those people. I think it's so fascinating back when Kim Kardashian was heavy doing her prison reform and stuff,

I was so into like her prison outfits. and I know that's so crazy, but like I was so into it. And at that point, I was like, I really want to go in and pick, I'm so into true crime shit. I just want to go in and pick the brains of somebody who has done something absolutely heinous. And I talked to somebody that I was dating a long time ago about this. And he was like, absolutely not. You do not have any place going into a state facility with people on death row. Like, that is dangerous.

Like, that is not okay. I don't think it's dangerous with all the things that they have in place. There's guards. They're in shackles. Yeah. They're handcuffed to a table. My friend Kelsey works at the prison and I'm like, can you please? I want to go like interview these people.

And she's like, no. No. Why? Her positioning on it, I think, is that like, because they're not on death row and they have people on the outside. You don't know when they're going to get out. Like, yes, they're like super heinous crimes. But like she, they're going to bullshit you.

They're going to think that they can one up you. They can like whatever. Like there are certain people. She just doesn't. want me in that prison. Going off a little bit of this conversation, but we're going to like circle back to this part of it, people marry convicted murders due to a mix of psychological drives, a need for control, and a phenomenon known as high bisperiophilia. It says where a person feel sexual or romantic attraction to someone who has committed a violent crime. The psychology behind the

attraction is the need for control. Partners and the relationships often dictate the terms of engagement because the inmate is behind bars and the visiting partner decides when to write, when to visit, and when to cut off communication, offering a sense of total control. The fixer complex, which was my thought, some individuals process an intense desire to nurture or reform. They believe that they can see the true good and they can see true good little boy or the misunderstood soul inside the killer and that their love will cure or change them. I am like that in life, but I could not imagine going as far as being a fixer for a murderer. Yeah.

I mean, I think both of those things can be true. But I could see the psychology behind why somebody with a personality like that could get in a situation with somebody behind bars. I can't. I can't. I am that type of person and I don't understand it. So safety, safety without real risk. an incarcerated partner cannot physically hurt them on a daily basis,

nor can they engage in everyday domestic conflicts or infidelity in the traditional sense. This creates a bizarre illusion of an intense, devoted relationship without the high stakes of conventional day-to-day intimacy. Wow, that part, that part, because you feel so secure. You're like, now my intrusive thoughts are cured. No, because my intrusive, when I dated an inmate who was in a state prison, I did not feel like he was committed to me because if you're doing that with me and calling me six times a day and I'm not answering and you're writing letters and sending me pictures through the app and bullshit like that, you're probably also doing it to several other women. Oh, for sure. Like I'm not fucking stupid. For sure. And then the last one is the allure of notoriety. Associating with a high profile tabloid famous criminal brings instant fame by proxy. Media attention interview requests and public notoriety draw certain.

individuals who crave a spotlight that they could never otherwise achieve. Do you think that was Ryan Anderson in the Gypsy Rose situation? I kind of do feel that way because what other reason? Like it's not it's not safety without real risk. Like if we're looking at these factors and these are the factors alone of why people would marry convicted murderers, the only one that he he falls in, in my opinion, is the allure of notoriety. I felt good about Ryan for some time.

I have been back and forth with Ryan. Now I'm just completely of the belief that that is what it was. Because hearing some of the jail calls and the conversations, I didn't listen to any of them, the ones that were recently released. I didn't need to listen to them. I got the summaries and I, that's concerning. So it's called hybristrophilia. But then also on the flip side, like what causes that inmate to select that person?

So like what stood out to Gypsy to continue conversations with Ryan and then ultimately marry him? What caused Chris Watts to pick that specific woman? What caused the Menendez brothers to pick their wives when they were married at whatever times? Like what stuck out to them through letters? If all of these people are writing to them, what stuck out from those specific ones? I think psychologically, wherever that person, is meeting them to make them feel a certain type of way. But you don't think so many other women are doing the same thing?

I mean, sure. I think that that can be true, but the same thing could be casually dating. There's going to be a reason why somebody sticks out to you more than another. They make you feel something that somebody else doesn't. But from prison, though, it's all letters. It's all telling you what you want to hear. It's all the false level, like the false security. Like, it's all of that.

I don't know if it's this way in the, this. state system, but like you have to be on a list to be able to go visit. So I'm sure, and I do think that you can like add people and remove people and then somebody else can go on, but I know it's like a process of the visiting list. So I'm sure they've got a lot of time sitting in there in prison, right? So are they playing the pros and cons in their head? And they're like, okay, well, this person has a higher potentiality of actually committing to me and coming every visit. like is there that thought process that's going on versus like meeting this person one time like they wrote me a letter but they might not come and see me or like I write them back and then it takes

them three weeks to write me back and then they can't make it work in their schedule to come see me type thing like is it right a selective because they can give me the time and they're willing to to dedicate themselves to me then I'm going to choose that one I don't know I mean not me acting like I'm a prisoner. I chose my inmate because we had mutual people. Because you had mutual friends. Yeah. That's how I met him. Let's deep dive a little bit. That's how I met him.

I know, but like, at what point through this meeting process for you were you like, this is the idea? Like, I really want jail calls. I, was it I don't think that's what I, I don't think I went into it and was like, you know what? I could

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And the answer is always yes. Rowan was on it. And I was able to ask Rowan how I was tracking for the month that it told me that I was spending $200 more on food than I planned for. So you can set up a budget and then follow it. So you won't, in theory, overspend. Try Rowan when you sign up for premium plus at rocketmoney.com slash coffee combos. That's rocketmoney.com slash coffee combos. Rocket money.com slash coffee combos. But walk me through the process of you thinking this. Like, yes, we've established the fact that you had mutuals. When you are in prison, it is so easy.

Well, let me not. I'm speaking as if I've been in prison. I'm assuming that for him, it was very easy for him to tell me anything I wanted to hear and how perfect this was going to be and how he was going to do X, Y, and Z when he got out of prison. And this is how he was going to change his life and this is the way it's going to be. Because it's easy when you're a lot. Like, I'm trying to relate this to try to follow the bouncing ball here. Elliot's dad is not my type in any way, shape, or form. But I was willing to accept crumbs of attention and effect.

from someone because of how I grew up and things like that. Have a baby with him and then quickly get a job and realize, oh my God, there are other people out there. I did not need to commit to this person at this time in my life when there are other fish in the fucking sea and I haven't experienced life. So I meet this inmate who has been in prison since he was a teenager. Where did you meet him? Through our friends.

So then he's in prison since he was 16. 15 or 16 years old. Okay. And he is me when I was with Joe. At that age, at that time in my life, that was the end all be all. I will accept crumbs. I will do this. You just proved the fixer mentality.

Correct. So I get into this relationship. And for him, he was where I was because he's been stunted. So he thinks that I'm, until he gets out of prison and realizes there are so many other people out there. And then he goes right back, he went right back into prison. So you met him on the outside? No.

I met him in prison. So you never, did you go visit him? I'm not comfortable disclosing this information. I'm not comfortable disclosing this information. She went to the prison and visited her prison bay. No. I remember prison bay. Are you thinking of jail bay?

Oh, that, she had a jail bay and a prison bay. Not at the same time. No. And I never, I never hooked up with either of them. Like, let that be known. But jail bay and prison bay is actually crazy. But you debated me when I said I could see psychologically why somebody would do it if they had a mentality of a fixer. And you were like, no, I don't think so.

And then you just proved it when you admitted the fact that you had a prison bay. Yeah, but I wasn't trying to fix him. He was telling me all the family things when he got out. Like that is what he wanted to do all these things to be better and do better and blah, blah, blah, blah, a lot. And then as it got closer to his release time, it freaked me out because I was like, I actually can't help you with this stuff. Like I have a lot of fucking kids I got to take care of. And like what would this look like for my life? Like inviting this man into my life in this way. And so it scared me. And also, he's calling me six, seven, eight times a day. Like using other

people's time to call me. And I'm like, not enough has happened for me to have this phone call. Like, I couldn't do it. And then. What were you all talking about? That's my point. It was. was like, I don't have time to be talking to you this much because I have stuff going on and he had time to talk. And I don't know what he would just tell me all kinds of stuff. But it's like, and I'm like, like I was happy for him. And I really did think he was going to change his life. But it freaked me out because I was like, I actually can't have, I can't be like responsible for you if you were to move to Delaware. Like I couldn't do it. So he ended up going back to prison. Yeah. He got released and then went back. Yes. Which is so interesting to me because the United

States has the highest recidivism rate than. any other country and it's literally because there is no rehabilitation in the prison system at all. I would agree. Okay, we're going to move on to a hometown gossip story and we've changed the name of this segment just a little bit because there are stories that have been coming in from all like different sizes of towns, right? And so small town like doesn't fit the vibes anymore. So we want all the stories no matter what the size of your town is and you can send

small town drama, big city gossip. up HOA sagas, diner and local chaos, or family lore to info at coffeeconvospodcast.com. We will keep you anonymous. And if you don't want to be anonymous, just let us know by request. This was, this story, there is a content warning for animal kidnapping and abuse and mental health struggles. It's called the serial catnapper. A couple lost their cat, so they went knocking door to door in our town and came across their cat crying in a random home's front window. They called the police who arrive and find 50 plus missing cats along with a fucking graveyard of cats in the garden. Some that had been missing for up to seven years, it culminated in the

catnapper, it culminated in the catnapper, a 50-plus-year-old woman stuffing as many cats as she could in her car and going on a police chase through our little town. Most of the cats were identified and taken home. A very small few went to rescue centers and the catnapper is currently going under mental health treatment. Apparently, she just took home any cat she saw while on a walk for the last seven years. This happened a couple years back, but I had to tell the tale. So like a collector of cats, didn't care if they belonged to somebody else or if they were missing, she was just picking them up and never returning them. Like I could see if a cat was out and she was like getting them back to wherever they came from. But she was full on just keeping them. Like this is theft. Yeah, but like what

is the psychology behind that? And like you're keeping all these cats and then you have a graveyard for them. So my first thought was like was she doing experiments on them or it was like she had so many that she had to start the graveyard because they were dying. I'm going to go with that. And possibly maybe they were malnourished because you're feeding 50 cats. I mean, I don't know. I couldn't imagine what the psychological aspect of somebody going on a walk and like collecting cats on a sidewalk and then taking them home. And you know they're missing. So why not return that?

Like there is something wrong, obviously. But that's wild. Like, you know how people used to post like posters all the time for like missing animals? Yes. Now there's websites and somehow someone signed me up for this website. I don't know if it was like supposed to be for a joke or not, but I get emails all the time. And it's like, help me find Lester. And it's like 20 miles from my house and it's a photo of a cat.

And I'm like, number one, I'm never looking for Lester, no offense. But secondly, you're like 20 miles away. And it's called like Petrescuer.com or something. And someone randomly signed my email up for it and I get notifications for like all these missing cats and it's always a fucking missing cat. I have to say my email has also been clogged with like advertisements I did not sign up for. Like what? Urban Outfitters, Five Below.

Kiel, you just went to five below. Yeah, but I opted to not be emailed. Did you type in your email? Yes. And then I said, do not send me promotional emails. Oh my God. Do you know what I mean? Remember that one time that you accidentally signed up for like,

a Victoria Secret credit card. Oh, no, it's Sephora. Or Sephora. Yeah. Or like I'll sign up for emails and then I will physically go in and unsubscribe and they'll stop for a couple weeks. And then a couple weeks later, they'll resub-it'll automatically resubscribe. And I'm like, fuck no.

I know for a fact that I went in here and unsubscribed. Why am I getting these again? Five Below is one of them. Can we talk about kids loving Five Below? Because Five Below is like what the dollar store was. to me when I was a little girl. Yes, but the thing about Five Below, they have like some brand name stuff. And I guess like that's kind of cool.

But like I am not a fan of junk. No, I don't think anybody in this room is a fan of junk. No, but like I don't want to go spend my like a ton of money at a dollar store equivalent for my kids to play with something for a day and then completely not care about it anymore. I agree with that. But what do your kids buy at the Five Below? My kids actually don't go regularly to five below. That's like not a regular stop for us.

But if they're going to five below, Creed got two t-shirts. We'd have like a yes day recently. Okay. He got two t-shirts and a poster to hang on his wall. So I'm like, I could get behind that. And then Lux got some kind of like shield and sword like to play with. And that was a huge mistake because the boys just hit each other with it. But like create stuff I could get behind.

Like that stuff made sense to me. I just hate going in and buying stuff that I know is going to go in the trash in a week from now. Like I feel like that's so wasteful. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Like why are we even producing this junk? I know. I absolutely hate it.

But the reason they produce it is because people like us buy it. Yeah. But then it just ends up in a goddamn landfill. And it's not like it's because there's obviously everyone lives with different price points. And I would love to say, well, okay, if you can't. afford the more expensive toy at this store, then go to five below and get this toy. But that toy is not going to even survive anyway. Correct. So you're better off actually going to Goodwill. So Jackson wanted to go, remember you were texting me the other day and you were like,

whoever came up with yesterday, what did you say, should go to prison? Should go to prison. Okay. So I did a yes day for him and David's daughter last fall. And I was so exhausted. I think I slept for three days afterwards. But it was like we started as, Waffle House for breakfast and then we went to the petting zoo and then we went to the arcade and then we went to dinner and then we did five below and then like all of these places okay number one that's exhausting and I understand like giving your kids a yes day like I get it but I think that there should be boundaries on the yes day you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like three yeses. Okay.

You know, I think that that would just go a little bit better. There's only so much you can do in one day. I know. And I mean, do you know what my kids asked for for their yes day? Lux asked to go to Disneyland and Creed asked to go to Portugal. So also, if we are doing yes days, should there be a financial limit on the yes day? Like each kid gets X amount of dollars for their yes day? I think it all depends what budget you have.

I mean, yeah, I'm not saying like what budget somebody should have. For me, I think yes days could be birthdays. Their one rule that we had was they had to do their chores before we left. But Lux said, could I help him with one chore? Which at the point that it's a yes day, I agreed. And there was a rule that there was no animals, no pets. We're not buying pets. somehow we still ended up with goddamn fish.

On the yes day? Yes. You failed to mention that part of the yesterday. Yeah. Where did you get those? Petsmart. We rescued some fish. Rescued from where?

PetSmart. From a small little tiny beta fish container. Oh, wow. Wow. Do you guys know those pieces in your closet do you find yourself reaching for over and over again? The sweater that somehow just works with everything, the jeans that you know that will always fit just right or the bag that you carry everywhere. Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe and that's exactly what Quince does so well. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials

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reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince. Download the Quince. app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order in 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, please let them know that Coffee Convo's podcast sent you. It is the best way to support the show. Okay, I have something that I need to ask you about, and I don't know if it's ever happened on a weekend that you don't have your kids. But on Saturday morning, I woke up and I needed to go around a couple of errands. So Jackson had FaceTime me.

And it was like, hey, Mom, what are you doing? He was like, I'm bored at dads. And he said, we're going to have a lazy day. And, you know, I hate lazy days. And I said, well, I'm about to go shopping and, like, walk around the outdoor mall. If you want to come, just ask your dad, and I'll come pick you up.

So he asked Will and Will's like, no, it's my time. And I'm like, yeah, but you're not playing with him. You're laying on the couch upstairs, and he's playing in the basement. So, like, let me come and get him, and I'm going to take him to walk with me around the outdoor mall, and I'll drop him back off at home. Like it's no skin off your back. Take a nap.

Do we think that that is overstepping boundaries that I should not have told Jackson that he could come with me, even though I feel like it's not a problem? Do we think that that's overstepping boundaries and to the other parents' time, even though they weren't doing anything? I'm 50-50 on this. I'm 50-50 on this because that's Lincoln. Lincoln does not know how to be bored. Lincoln does not like days where he has to sit down.

If I was to say it's a lazy day, he's not having a good. good time. I'm also of the opinion. So on one hand, it's like, okay, if you're not doing anything, let them go do something with the other parent. But on the flip side of that is everybody should know how to be bored. Everyone needs to use their imagination when they're bored. Everyone should have that downtime. Everybody, and like, yes, it was Will's time. So I'm 50-50 on it. Like, I don't know. Like, there's nothing that bothers me more than when my kids say that they're bored. go use your fucking imagination. Go figure it out.

I do not care if your sibling or your parent does not want to play with you for that little bit of time. You better go figure something out. But I actually don't think Jackson was bored. I think it's because he talked to me and he knew what I was going to go do and he wanted to do that. But then just say that. So then he automatically was bored. Because what he was doing was boring compared to what he thought I was doing. So like should I have not told him what I was doing?

and not offered, but at the same time, I don't mind picking up and dropping off and feeding him and like, you're not doing anything anyway. I don't think that it was wrong, but like if it's a question about should the kids learn how to be bored or if it's a question of, are you overstepping? I mean, it's hard too because the age that Jackson is at and also Lincoln, like, because they're the same age, it's hard because they're almost at the age where they're able to make their own decisions. Like that's how I've been with Elliot for a long time. I've been of the opinion for a couple years now before he got his license. Yeah. That he should have been able to choose.

Maybe not originally when I wanted to him to when he was like nine-ish. Maybe not. But definitely around 13, 14, 15, I feel like at that point, the kid should have more of a say because if you are not doing something with them for several days or for a majority of your time, like, what does it matter? Yeah, I mean, if we're talking about a board day here and there, whatever, but like, if we're talking about you're 13, 14 years old and you want to go hang out with your mom, why is your dad giving you a hard time? And I think on the flip side of that, because I think when people hear this, you're going to be like, well, would you be okay if the roles were reversed? And, like, I absolutely would. I have been flexible if they were reversed. If I'm not doing anything and I don't want to leave the house and you want, for example,

Like it was one Wednesday or Thursday after school recently. And Will was like, hey, I got opportunity for Braves tickets, I guess through like his company. And he was like, I know it's your evening, but can Jackson get off the bus? And he and I just go to the Braves game. And I'm like, yeah, sure. Like we didn't have any plans. There have been instances where we did have plans. And then the other parent said, oh, well, we're doing this.

And then I just ask the kid. Like specifically, Elliot and Lincoln, not so much the younger ones, but there have been, like, Havi emailed me the other day about a weekend in October. And I just emailed back and I said, let me get back to you because we also have plans that weekend. Like I'm not trying to be difficult, but I said, let me get back to you on this because it's my time. He's asking me for it, but I want to see what Lincoln wants.

Because I could see Lincoln wanting to do both. But if there's kids at the other one, he might want to go be with the kids. And that's fine. So whatever. And then there have been times with like, Elliot and Lincoln specifically that they're not doing anything and I'll send them with their dad if they're doing something. Same for Lux and Creed. Their grandma has asked me for days. And I'm like, okay, if we're not doing anything, sure. Yeah, like I'm not going to give up time that I have something

planned. Yeah. But if there is nothing planned and my kid wants to do it, then I'm going to be flexible. Moving on from that, there was a TikTok that I ran across and we can post the link, but I'm just going to kind of like summarize it. So this woman went to the hair salon after saving $200 to get her hair permed for six years. She told the hairstylist that she had been black box dyeing her hair for the past six years. She got a test strand done and the stylist said it looked good. They went ahead, permed her whole head. This hair person was her friend. So whether it was artist or user error, this has now been up in the air on this TikTok. And her hair, and her hair, is now fried. She then tried to get a refund and was ignored by the hairstylist and the salon.

She posted the video to warn people and also in an attempt to get a refund by using like the public on TikTok. So the salon gave her the refund and fired the hairstylist. They then posted the video saying many hair stylists have reached out to help the woman and she is being flown out to L.A. by a hairstylist named Alfredo to fix her hair, although other stylists are saying that there's no fixing this. The woman has blown up on TikTok for this video as well as her response to anyone suggesting that this is not fixable. A hair stylist made a video saying it's not fixable and the only true fix is to shave her head, but the brands and other stylists are reaching out acting like they can fix it in order to get attention and clout.

The woman with the perm lashed out at the artist who said that and got negative backlash. People are now claiming that the woman was not honest with the hairstylist and this is evidence that she had her hair professionally. highlighted in 2021 and that she's just doing this for attention, clout, or money. And this brings us to the wider conversation and the internet, the conversation regarding the internet and how that can ruin people's lives. So the hairstylist was fired based on this video. The woman who here, the woman who here was fried is now being turned against after people decided that she was doing it for clout. First people had, first people had rallied behind her. And then now they're against

her and I just want to know why we see this all the time on social media and why are people so eager to cancel other people's lives and like why is this become normalized? I have, there's just so many things about this. So when you say it's fried, like did it break off and she's almost bald that she has to shave it or like what do we mean? I think just like severely damaged like severely damaged hair. Okay. But they did a test strip. The test strip was fine. So I don't really know who's to blame in that situation. I feel like if you know what the risks are and you still proceed for both of them, the artist and the woman, like the hairstylist and the woman are both to blame. Was it a fireable offense? No, you guys

both took the risk. But like to, I don't know how I feel about that. And then also the- People going to social media to like read the problems, right? So it's like, yes, two things can be true. Like maybe a refund was warranted because of the amount of damage that was done to the hair and you're going to somebody who should be reputable at a salon, right? And you're trusting their professional expertise to get something done. But at the same time, when this person's asking for a refund, contacting the salon, contacting the stylist, and they're not responsive, and then they result to,

going to TikTok to remedy this problem, inviting all the public. At that point, now the hair stylist and the salon want to give the refund, so they issue the refund. The salon also fires the stylus because of the negative backlash, because now the hair salon as a whole has been brought into this. I think that's not a fireable offense. No, that's what I'm saying. That's what I don't think it was, because they both took the risk.

That's not really fair to put it solely on the hairstylist. I mean, yeah, it sucks, but but then I'm also like, you know what, this is giving? Remember that story that we covered here by Krispy? Yeah. Like that's what this is giving. Yes. Um, but as far as the cancel culture aspect of it all, that I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of it, right? Because cancel culture has been around for a long time now. And I feel like it really hit its peak during COVID. Um, and now I feel like people are still doing it. And maybe not to the, the same degree. But it's hard because I feel like I can't even speak freely on this because I don't want to be canceled for it. It's like, yeah, like I'm scared to even speak freely on cancel culture because, I mean, people have tried to cancel me before. I've been canceled. Cancel culture is modern day bullying. Yes. And I think some people will argue that it's warranted. And I would say that. In certain circumstances it is. Yeah, I think it's nuanced. I think that they're, it's layered. I think that there is caveats to everything. I think there are exceptions to rule sometimes. And I think that

like, but to cancel people to for this specifically to have that big of a cancel culture, not cancel, what is it called? To have this big of a reactive, like this big of a reaction to cancel these people or this salon or this stylist or like that just feels like it's got like you're fucking with people's livelihood. So like you don't have. have to agree with what someone does or says or thinks, but to go as far as trying to ruin their livelihood and how they pay their bills over something that does not affect you, to me, is weird. It's very weird. And this story very much sounds like, so the person, this woman, that her here was fried, she's, people were so rallying behind her about this. And then now people are

completely against her saying she was doing it for clout. I'm like, at what point do people also stop stop copying other people's stories because this is very much to me giving what not famous did when it came to here by Chrissy and then she started to go into the Rachel girl and gained this huge massive following over going out and outing a hair salon. Like, I don't know, I think something should just be left off the fucking internet. I know everybody is talking about GLP ones right now and so I want to mention to you guys, Roe body. Roe wants to help people lose sweet, and that's why they have some of the lowest cost GOP1 options out there, whether you're paying with insurance or cash. Roe's free insurance checker makes it easy to see if you're covered

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I don't want to do any extra errands that I don't too. And so if it can come right to my door and it takes the leg workout for me, I'm doing that. If I needed to get on a GOP-P-1, this is absolutely the option that I would go with, and you guys can go to row.comco slash coffee combos to see if you qualify. That's RO.combo slash coffee combos to get started on row. For side effects of GOP1 medications, including box warning, go to row.com slash safety. You know what happens a lot on the internet, too? Oh, here go. Some people will go to the internet with their side of things.

Yes. And they are so committed to their side of things that when the other side comes forward, they flip the script. So now it's like, oh, they won't stop picking on me. Oh, they won't stop talking about me. Oh, they're trying to cancel me. You started this. You did this.

So whoever went to the internet first, now people are trying to cancel you, but you brought it to the internet in the first place. So then who's that fault? Because I don't agree with cancel culture, but it took her going to the internet to get the refund. Right. So my question is then who is to blame as far as that goes? because I don't necessarily think that whether she did it for clout or didn't do it for clout,

like, canceling somebody for that is like, just move on. I mean, couldn't you-croll? Couldn't you file a complaint with the BBV? Probably. Instead of taking it to, like, TikTok? Like, I mean, I don't know. And to that point, like, we've seen me do this. I'm typically not one to start something on the internet, but if I see something that has started that even remotely

involves me in any way, shape, or form, I'm going to finish it. And I understand that, and I have done that myself. That is also frustrating because I don't want this on the internet, but now I feel like I don't have a choice but to defend myself. Didn't start it, but I'll finish it. So I don't know what to hear. I would love to actually hear from Taylor on that. Also, Meg and Gabby are my guests in Pittsburgh, and Meg's a hairstylist, like a really

well-known hairstylist. I'd be curious to see what she has to say about that. I just think TikTok has made it so easy to say whatever the fuck you want to say. Yeah, but like she tried to go to the stylist and the salon and nothing was done. Like what were we doing before TikTok? Being Karen. Well, a lot of people on TikTok because of behavior like this is a Karen. So if there's a student at school that has an issue with the teacher, are they going to make a TikTok about it?

Maybe. They might, but is that appropriate, in my opinion, no. No, I would say no. I would agree. Like if my child made a TikTok about a teacher, I would be livid. I have absolutely done like Google reviews. I've also done like, for example, I think it was a Mariah, I believe it was. shower cut off in the middle of my shower during tour when I had to be at a venue by 2 o'clock

and nobody notified me that the water would be getting cut off at a certain time. So when I call the front desk and I'm really upset, why didn't you call the people who would be affected? You should have called their rooms. Well, we didn't find out until this morning. Great. It's 1 o'clock. So you had four hours to call me to let me know that water was being cut off and that I wasn't

going to be able to shower. And I said, I would like a refund for today because I can't shower here. And she said, no, because you're not going to be affected for the rest of your stay. I said, but I am because I have to be on, I'm on tour right now and I need to be at the venue. So like, it affects today, which I'm asking for a refund for. So then I posted, I didn't, couldn't get to anybody. She hung up on me. Because I cost to, I was like, are you fucking kidding. Or I said, like, are you? Or like, I'm not going to fucking accept that because my day is affected. So now what is the plane? I was mid-s shave. had soap on my legs and the water cut off not even cold water it just cut off so I post I had she hung up

up on me I tried calling back no answer posted on Facebook and they gave me points on my account for that day like okay fine like let's rectify this but it took me posting it on Facebook for them to do something about it I've had to I mean I say I've had to but like airlines flew Delta something happened and they came up to us and like oh this didn't happen so we added points to your account love that thank you so much. I didn't have to call anyone, didn't have to file a complaint, didn't have to reach out to customer service. American Airlines kept us on a flight without giving us any water. It was delayed on the tarmac for like over an hour. We were promised meals in first class, did not get those once we

were in the air and did not hear from them for seven to ten days after I think it was two follow-ups before I heard from them. So like it's all about how they handle their customer service as well. So it's funny that you say that about the water because I didn't know that that I'd ever have and anybody else except me. At a hotel? Yeah, so remember when David and I went to Mexico back in January? Vaguely. And we had missed our flight.

Yes. And then we had to get on another flight so we didn't get there until like super late. Finally get checked into our room. I go to turn the shower on and I'm like, oh, maybe it just like needs to take a little time to heat up. No. No hot water. And one whole tower of this resort, no hot water.

water. So David starts calling. And he's like, nope, this is not acceptable. We're not taking cold showers. Like, we need to be moved to another tower, blah, blah, blah. They were like, well, it'll be fixed. It's inconveniencing everybody else too. And he's like, to his point, he's like, I don't really care. I'd hear about inconveniencing us. And we should be refunded for this. Like, we're not coming to take a cold shower. Did they notify you? No, we were not notified. been in hotels where there is a notice on the door or in the room that says water will be cut off for maintenance on X, you know, on X date for this time. Respectable. Thank you. I can plan my shower around that. Yeah, that makes sense to me. But there was no notification or anything. So after arguing for like 30 minutes, they tell us they can pack our stuff up and then, you know, we'll go to another room. So we go to another room in another tower. We have hot water. He was so upset. But it's just so funny how different consumers feel different ways about stuff. because I'm like, oh, I'll just like get in there and take a cold shower and get in the bed and warm up.

For him, absolutely not. Like, we are not taking a cold shower. We are getting moved. We're going somewhere else. I have never written a bad review on any company website or, like, airline or anything. But I've also never written a good review. Like, I've never written a review on anything. I found myself getting in the house.

If, like, something was not good, I was, like, only doing bad review. and then I realized I was doing that, so then I started doing good reviews also. Because, like, we shouldn't only talk about the bad. Make sure we talk about the good stuff, too. Speaking of the cold shower thing, that also happened to me, didn't it? At the one shower where the maintenance had to Phoenix.

Yeah, no, there are two tour dates. One of them was in Phoenix. There was no hot water, and I took a freezing ice cold shower. Freezing ice cold. Maintenance had to come. They fixed the hot water. That one.

And then there was the one in, the one that I just talked about where it cut off mid-shave. and there was no water at all. Like, it cut off mid-shower. So I was like, again, like, just post. And then I've also booked at a hotel that said on the website when I went to go book, it said that it would be under construction.

And so they were discounting the rooms if you chose to book during those construction days. It's all about just being honest and having notices. Yeah. Like, I don't understand, like, why are we not just handling it? I mean, I don't know. I'm probably just, I'm going to complain and you guys are going to hear about it. But like the company is probably not going to hear about it. And I'm never leaving a bad or good review for that matter. Like it could be the best meal that I've ever had. And I'm probably not leaving a review. Do you tip 20% or more on every single meal no matter how good or bad it is? Yes. Same. Because I always tip 20%. Like some people feel strongly that they don't give out tips freely. I don't care if it's the worst food and worst service I've ever had. I'm paying. I'm tipping 20%.

I'm not, I don't mean because of the affording, though. Like I'm talking about the people who, yeah, they're not tipping based on, like they are tipping based on service. And I get that, but I feel like the standard now is 20%.

I thought that was always. No. On tour, the merch tables, don't get me started. Okay, so on tour for merch tables, there are certain venues that take, 20% of your sales.

There are also some that you're paying the sellers. So like say the venue has two sellers that will run your tables for you. They get their flat rate of, we'll call it 200 for a whole number's sake. They get 200 plus all the tips. So when people are paying up my machines that are mine, we own them, our point of sale system, there's like a thing that you can put like tips. Again, I don't think that somebody who's selling merch at a merch table. needs to have tips.

But the contract say the venue could take 20%, depending on what venue it is. The sellers are their flat rate plus the tips. We are required to give them our tips that are on the machine that we own, the merch that we own, and you're already getting a flat rate for, if my shows are only 70 to 90 minutes.

So I'm paying you, we'll call it 200. Why should you get the tips on top of that when I, it's my machines, my merch, you're getting a flat rate, What do you need the tips for? I mean, I understand that. I want to know if you are basing the 20% off of, like, let's say you take your family out to eat. Are you basing the 20% off of the price of the food or are you is the 20% to you the quality of the service?

Because for me, I'm not tipping off of the 20% off of the quality of service. I am tipping the 20% off of what it cost. Does that make sense? I look at the total bill and I tip 20%. Yeah, I know, but I'm saying in your mind... Oh, it's based on the bill. It's based off of what you ordered. Yeah.

I'm still tipping 20%. I'm still tipping 20%, even if the server sucks. But like local restaurants to me, for example, that Jackson and I visit very regularly. I know tons of those servers on a purse. personal level. And so the standard is 20%. If they had provided me exceptional service on that day, I might tip them 25%. Right. Fair. And I think that's like I'm aligned with you on that. I also, when we went to Chinatown in London, one of the things the server asked as soon as we got there,

it was me, Ike, Becky, and Elliott. Lincoln had soccer training, which no parents were allowed at. she asked are these on separate checks or the same check? And I was just like, just put it on the same check. And she's like, oh, thank you. So easy. It's really hard for them to like divvy up the different checks. And that just is annoying. So but then we, we've talked about it on coffee combos before like the splitting the check or like I didn't pay for the drinks or I didn't get the steak.

So why should I have to like just don't go out to eat with your friends then. If you're going to make it complicated, just don't go out to eat with your friends. Oh yeah. And in London, they don't do tipping. Wait, what do you mean? Like it's not. standard practice to tip. They get paid normal.

So like tipping as a whole, like you can, but like it's not expected. But that's the issue that I have with American people is that servers are paid minimum wage. I think it's less than minimum wage. Or less. Or less. Or less. $3. Yeah.

Like two or $3, which is less than minimum wage. Okay. So if they're choosing to do that job, because some people's argument is, yeah, but that's a choice. That's a choice. And then they should have to perform to be able to get the 20% if they want a 20% tip. I somewhat disagree with that. I understand that, like, that's the job that they chose or that might be the job that they could do that fits their schedule. They might be a single mom.

They might be, you know, whatever the circumstances are. I'm paying 20% on whatever I order, regardless. of what that is. Yeah. Like, I don't care what their circumstances are. Like that, because you also have to,

to me, they could go into an eight hour shift as a server and be tipped out and barely, like once that eight hour shift is over, maybe only made minimum wage with like their tips and what they would get hourly, maybe only come out to minimum wage. Yeah. So I, and they may have performed perfectly fine,

performed and done great service, accessible to their tables, and still only make out as minimum wage per hour. And that's not like, okay, that's the nature of the beast. Like, I don't agree. But people don't understand that if it was like a servers were paid the way they are in London, for example, it's going to come out somewhere on the consumer. So if the restaurant's having to pay them, like, whatever that fee is. Then their prices have to go up. Then their prices are going to go up. So you're paying the percentage regardless of whichever way you cut the cookie.

True. True. I know this one guy locally, he's such a, such a nice guy and such a good dad. I think he's in, like, close to 60 years old. And I see him around all the time. And every time I see him pay his bill, he always is so diligent about carrying cash so that they don't have to, they don't have to. claim it on tax? Yeah. So diligent about it. And I'm like, I wish that was me. Like, I wish I was a cash carry in girly. Oh, I dread even going to an ATM. I don't carry cash.

I don't think I've carried cash in maybe five years. Like, there's a, there are random times where I might have a $20 bill on me for whatever reason, but that might only be because my nail salon prefers cash tips or something is cash. But I don't even know. Obviously, we can get into semantics, but I don't want to see a cashless society. I don't think there are, I think there are more cons than pros, but I also don't carry cash very often. So typically during football season, because Jackson likes to go to the high school football games, if he's out like throwing his football and stuff with his friends, I do try to carry a little bit more, or I try to carry cash because I don't carry cash any other time of the year. But I try to carry cash during that season mostly,

because if he wants like concessions or something, I'm not going to send him off with my credit card or debit card. Oh, really? Yeah. I always send my kids off with my card. Well, it depends on where it is. But like if he's out throwing a football and chasing his friends and they're doing whatever, you're not going off with my credit card or debit card. I would have sent Lincoln to camp with my card. What?

Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely not. Elliot, too. It depends on the kid. Another, another thing that I do for Jackson sometimes is I'll just put money in his Apple pay. Lincoln's been trying to get set up with that. I don't know how to do it. Oh, it's so easy.

It's so easy. Oh, well, that's what I need to do for him because he's always out. And then you don't exchange your card and then you can just put his money on his Apple Pay. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, you just tap. But does he need a bank account? No. It's with your Apple ID.

Oh. Yeah. Why didn't we set that up for him? Do you have anything else that you would like to say this week? The last thing I'll say is the holidays are coming up quick. I can't believe it. I'm ready for. for downtime, as down as down as it can get with seven kids, but I'm ready for less frequent travel

and some downtime this fall. I'm going to be seeing you shortly in Atlanta when this episode airs at the Falcons game. Falcons versus Ravens. I'm excited. I promised Lux and Creed I would take them to that game, so I got to make that happen. And I think that that'll be Jackson's first time meeting two of your kids. Oh my gosh. They'll have fun, though.

They'll have so much fun. So if you guys have not followed us on at Coffee Convo's podcast, you can do that on Instagram. If you have not subscribed with the show, you can do that anywhere you get your pods always first at Podcasts. Also, video episodes are available on YouTube. Anything else? Join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community. And we hope that you guys have a fantastic week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya.

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