Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - True Crime: Brooke Skylar Richardson with author Sonia Chopra

Episode Date: September 12, 2022

EP242: On this month's true crime bonus episode, we go back and revisit the Brooke Skylar Richardson case with journalist and author Sonia Chopra.  Sonia is the sole journalist who talked with Skylar and the Richardson family. She talks with Kail and Lindsie about what she learned about Skylar in her interviews, the deeper secrets in the Richardson family, and answers the question we all asked.. is Skylar sorry for the things she did? Check out Sonia's new book Saving Skylar: The Brooke Skylar Richardson Case available now on Amazon! Thank you to our sponsors!Beis: Go to BeisTravel.com/COFFEE for 15% off your first purchaseEverlywell: Visit everlywell.com/convos for 20% off an at-home lab test

I hate gift giving and receiving receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say? Thank you? This is coffee convos with Kale Lowry and Lindsay Chrisley. I really want you to be in your feels Kale That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you a spirited discussion about motherhood friendship Family and life in the public eye. I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kale and Lindsay Hello, Lindsay. Hello. I love seeing your little face. It's nice to see you on camera. I know we never do on-camera stuff And it's a little weird because I don't have like a desk to put my computer on so I'm just kind of sitting at my bed on my bed So I don't know if any of our listeners remember when we first covered Skylar Richardson Brooke Skylar Richardson for the case that she was charged and I believe convicted for

Abuse of a corpse. She was the cheerleader in high school who gave birth at home and then buried her daughter in the backyard Today we have a reporter Sonia Chopra and we are gonna cover The case more in depth with her because she was actually the first Reporter the only reporter to break the story and be the one that Skylar talks to I don't think Skylar ever talked to any other reporter I think that this is so Interesting. I'm still like slightly angry About the entire case and so I would love to be able to get like more insight from someone who's actually Spoken to her to be able to get inside her brain. I want to know if she's angry same or

Does she just remain like completely unbiased? No opinion. This will be very interesting I love how we're both sitting on our beds and Just looking like trolls right now. I'm trying not to move but it's really hard because I just have my computer on a pillow So No, I'm very very interested. She also wrote she so self-published a book called Saving Skylar the Brooks Skylar Richardson case I did watch something on this and I can't remember if it was on Hulu or Netflix or what it was on But I've restarted looking up the case and I started pulling stuff up and I guess the Skylar the the father of Skylar's baby

Held like a candlelight vigil and the his mom was willing to raise this baby had she known but she said she never got the chance And I just feel like myself being someone who got pregnant in high school It's not the end all be all is it ideal? Absolutely not. Is it fun? Absolutely not But there are options and your parents will forgive you I think that there's way more to the story than what we actually know and I'm going to Assume at this point before we talk to this reporter that There's definitely some Play in this situation based off of how she was raised

Right. I did see an interview with the parents. The parents had no idea That's what's so weird to me is like what was that show that used to come on? I don't know who's like TLC or whatever But it was like about how people didn't know that they were pregnant and then I think it was I didn't know I was pregnant Yeah, and they would have like these emergency Deliveries or whatever so I know that there are some weird situations to where people can like disguise this or Not know I just find it to be weird that she was living in her parents home They had no idea that she was pregnant and she was a cheerleader

So like within that nine months was she not wearing a uniform So I actually pulled up pictures and I'm gonna see if I can send it to you really quick of Her in her what looks like a prom dress Obviously, we've been pregnant before so we kind of know like what it looks like But I guess if you didn't know she was pregnant you wouldn't really think of it You know anything like you wouldn't that wouldn't be the first thing that you see or you think of and any photos or any articles or anything like that that we reference will make sure that we post all of the Resources on coffee combos Instagram page as well. Did you send me the photo? Yeah, it's still sending for some reason

Just so interesting. I there there's other options. There's so many other options Literally those safe haven boxes or I don't is it legal to drop your baby off? It's like I know some fire departments have it But I think it's even legal to do like at the church. Like if you leave some churches, I Guess I just don't understand But again, I don't have a high schooler You have a child that just entered middle school, right? He's just entering middle school. Yeah Maybe I'm a little naive because I have a third grader and I know everything about his business

Mm-hmm, but I'm just like how do you go? That long in a pregnancy and you're you're living under the same roof with your parents and they just don't know Like wouldn't she have even had a physical at some point during this time? missed period I don't know because I don't have a daughter so I don't know It's easy to I feel like past judgment on the parents But at the end of the well and also like how did they not hear all of this happening? Like she was completely silent while she gave birth and then went out and dug up a grave Like where did she burn the baby? Like did they not like I I don't know like it's just so and I need to I need answers from I

Need answers looking at this prom dress photo and I feel like it's a bamboozle a little bit because it is a front-facing Prom dress photo and I almost feel like Some women from the front or the back don't look pregnant But like if she was turned to the side, I feel like you might be able to tell she's pregnant. I agree. Yeah Okay. No, there's no Do we believe that the parents didn't know I don't think they did I mean they both cried the mom and the dad both cried they seem to be kind of

very much on the same page not like Remember when we covered Jambani Ramsey and they both got different attorneys and I don't know like I just got the feeling that they necessary They weren't necessarily aligned. Mm-hmm, but when I watched the interviews of Skyler's parents, they seemed very much aligned first thing that's coming to my mind right now is Freakin Brian laundry and his parents and like you can't convince me that they didn't know stuff Like it makes me wonder a hundred percent Based off of the actions and the crime that Skyler committed that like are they

Claiming that they had no idea because they don't want to be an accessory to a crime like or didn't report something Or whatever like I don't know. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I don't here's the thing I know you can't we can't all say like oh, this is what I would do. This is what I wouldn't do until you're in that actual situation Sit, but sitting here right now and having my kids I'm not helping them burn a body a baby's body. We're gonna handle this situation We're gonna raise the baby and or give it up for adoption like whatever that looks like I'm gonna help them figure it out and I'm not gonna help my kids burn a baby's body

Well, I think the solution is you help them figure out a solution to the problem without Committing crimes, right? Like I'm not gonna help you commit a crime. No, like I'll help you lawyer up if you commit one But like that's it. I Don't know and I when I was reading what she got as a sentence I believe it was and we can just double-check obviously with The reporter, but I believe she ended up only getting like a fifth degree felony and so she didn't actually serve What the hell's a fifth degree felony Like you went through so many degrees of felonies like you went through the first four. What what's a fifth degree?

I gotta abuse of a corpse and That's what that's what she was ultimately chart like convicted of was abuse of a corpse because in the interrogation videos there was Conflicting I think there was conflicting evidence on whether or not this baby was born stillborn or the baby made sounds I was alive because when I watched the videos she was Skyler was dead set on the baby was a stillborn but then the investigators slash interrogators were like did she whimper did she make noise and then the story changed to well She might have made some noise So that is also confusing for me because I don't feel like I mean not that I can remember I don't remember there ever being like a definitive answer

I think I don't know. I don't know much about this other than what we initially discussed so Very interested to know all the deets, but these parents just by us having this Conversation feels us to me like you're not gonna convince me otherwise like there's no way that a girl who is a dedicated cheerleader Which means that her mom probably well, that's a generalization That is like very involved because that's not always the case, but like just judging by the pictures of her I feel like her mom would be like an in the no mom I feel like I don't know if it was her case or I might be confused. I hope I'm not confusing it with another one She didn't always tell her mom everything that was going on. Hmm. It says

Skyler Brook Skyler Richardson was sentenced to three years probation for burying the baby girls corpse and her parents Carlisle backyard in May of 2017 She was released on Tuesday after serving 14 months and then she was sentenced to three years probation 14 months for burning a body to me is Not enough time, but at the same time you and I've had so many conversations about like what Possible mental health issues could have been going on with this girl and then I was just in therapy right before we

Got on here and we were talking about parenting styles and like how I am a natural consequence Parenthood and I give choices and How strict parents I believe create sneaky children I also agree with that and so I'm wondering if her parents were like so strict that she feared so much What the outcome was going to be that she felt like that there was no other choice Yeah, I mean I do think about that because I mean if you put yourself back to a time where I mean I don't know if you ever feel fearful of your parents, but I was scared of my mom sometimes and

Like my mom's gonna kill me or so and so is gonna kill me kind of thing But now as a mom myself, I mean I would love my kids through it all You know what I mean? Obviously would be disappointed or whatever the case may be but I'm not really sure. I don't know Lindsay and I talk about everly well all the time and Everly well is the digital health care designed for you at an affordable and transparent price with over 30 at-home lab tests You'll be able to choose the test that makes the most sense for you and to get the answers that you guys need So Lindsay and I have both done women's health tests and also food sensitivity tests

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That's everly. Well comm slash combos for 20% off your next at-home lab test everly. Well comm slash combos Okay, Sonia. Welcome to coffee combos podcast. Thank you. I'm honored to be here. Yeah, we're happy to have you We were just discussing kind of catching listeners up on the case and where we kind of left off with the Brooks Skyler Richardson case and I was letting our listeners know that you were the first person to break the case and this has kind of been your story since day one Yes, it has. So how did you get in touch with Skyler? I Just went to the family home and I talked to them and at first they wouldn't talk to me

so then I went to the uncle and aunt and then I went to the grandparents and I kept coming back and Slowly they started talking to me, but it took two months for them to be ready for a story to be You know published. Mm-hmm And did her story ever change from what she originally told you to eventually what she told in court? No, right from the time when she spoke to the police to the time that she spoke to me to court It was always the same. She never moved from what she had said So for our listeners and honestly for Lindsay and I I'm I'm a little Unsure of the details. Did she in fact burn her daughter's body and because I know there was like some conflicting

Evidence on that or difference of opinions and then I also wasn't sure Was the baby breathing or was the baby not breathing? Do you want me to go through the events of the night or just answer the question? No, definitely go through walk us through everything Okay, so Skyler always had amnesia and insomnia So she would she would not be she would be awake till three in the morning four in the morning She would stay up the whole night either on social media or reading and that night She did her best to sleep, but she couldn't because her stomach hurts so much and And she finally gets up and says she's gonna go get some relief

She walks seven steps from her room to the stairs and then she stops and sits down her legs She can't the leg her legs cannot support her and she goes to the bathroom thinking that she needs to pee And when she sits on the toilet the baby comes out and she tries to catch the baby But the baby's head hits the toilet and when she pulls the baby out and wraps the towel The baby's white not moving and she tries to press on her heart She tries to open her eyes tries to everything but the baby never opened eyes never took a breath. It's just white and She just holds the baby and she cries and cries. She says to me that it's all my fault. I should have done something I should have called somebody I should have

Told the doctor did something and then she doesn't know what to do So she wraps the baby up in a towel and walks downstairs. She's still half naked She's just wearing a pajama top and she walks downstairs, but walks the backyard and She goes as far as her property line is next to a dollhouse and she just gets like her mother's little spade and and makes a small hole and puts the baby in the hole is so tiny and So shallow that when the police came to recover the bones all they did was use a paintbrush The bones were there. Oh, wow. And how long after she had buried the body?

Did the police actually uncover the body? She buried the baby on on March on on May 7th And then she goes back to the doctor's office for an appointment on July 13th Her first appointment was April 26th when she had gone for birth control calls birth control pills with her mother her mother had stayed In the waiting room and she had gone to the doctor and the doctor said before I can prescribe them I need to do a pregnancy test The test was done

It came back positive and the doctor said that he needs to do an ultrasound So they did an ultrasound and the doctor came up with the conclusion that she was 32 weeks pregnant He was wrong She was full-term and he told her that she had 10 weeks more to tell her mother and the way he calculated the You know the advancing pregnancy was doing a fundal height Okay, instead of tracking by the last period the first day of the last period Okay, so typically I mean when you I've been pregnant before several times And one in high school also was you know, I vaguely remembered, you know, the first day of my last period

So it was a more accurate Right Estimated due date. Wait, but I have a question. So Did she go to the doctor because she thought something was wrong or was this just like a routine? Thing like what was the reasoning why she was at the doctor that just sounds suspicious to me a little bit So she had a Two-week relationship with the baby's father Trey Johnson and that was back in August and in January She met this boy a young boy named Brendon sailor and she was very happy and the mother

Kim saw them getting very physical like they were hugging a lot and kissing and she was getting concerned So she told Skyler if you're going to do adult things then you're going to need Adult stuff to go with it. So she made the appointment Then that was Skyler's first OBGY appointment of her life Okay, and she didn't want to go. She kept telling her mother. I don't want to go I don't want to be examined by a boy doctor. I think at some level even though Skyler was in denial I believe that she had a suspicion that she was pregnant. Yeah Yeah, I agree. I definitely agree with that. So

her Parents never heard anything during the birth after the birth. She never went and got her parents And you said that she was in a just her pajama top I'm not sure if you have kids of your own. I do and I I bled after my children. So Was there a trail of blood? You know as she's walking through the house in just her pajama top No, there wasn't there was a lot of blood in the bathroom Mm-hmm at that point. I don't whether she wrapped a towel around her or

She was covered in towels I think she put one around her waist and then she had the baby in a towel and there is there was a lot of blood She went back and cleaned it with bleach and when the police came back They use luminol a chemical that detects the presence of blood and there was blood all over the place but just in the bathroom nowhere else I I watched interviews of Skyler's parents and I was telling Lindsay before you came on that to me they did seem very aligned in the story and they seemed Very sincere in their interviews and that they didn't know and that they you know, they really had no idea But Lindsay and I were saying as parents ourselves. I mean I have four children. I can't imagine

Not knowing, you know, I don't I don't have a I don't have any daughters I only have boys, but if I had a daughter, I'm so invested in my kids lives that I can't imagine not knowing But to Lindsay's point what she was saying earlier was you know as they get older, you know in their late middle school high school They could potentially be more secretive It's just interesting because I looked at her prom picture and if you turn if you turned her to the side I think that you could tell that maybe she did have a little bit of a belly. Yes, she did and To be fair her parents noticed but Skyler had these severe eating disorders and she would put on weight and lose it It seemed like in minutes. She fluctuated from 90 pounds to 150 pounds. Oh wow within weeks and

The mother posted a lot of pictures of her prior to her pregnancy in which she was looking beautiful She was looking slim. I could send some pictures to you if you like right now Yeah, absolutely, and you will see that you will see them and The pulley said that prior to prior to birth She had a lot of pictures But during the time she was pregnant and the mother didn't post any pictures on her social media and that is true Her mother was pretty disgusted by the way. She looked she said that in a text to her mother. She said Skyler has let herself go to pot. I cannot motivate her anymore and the father asked the mother like what's with the tummy?

Like she's right getting fat But they thought if they'd say anything to her and which is true She'll stop eating because usually people said Skyler is this dress too tight. She would stop eating She will need for three or four days. Okay, so they very very sensitive, you know, okay I do remember that from the interview also because right also because Skyler Had these eating disorders her body is is very small and she couldn't have periods She had periods in high school and she could go a year without having periods. Okay, and when she I think she had this Relationship betray in August

She missed a September period and then she had that freak out feeling that we all familiar with oh my god My period hasn't come but then She got this brown discharge and that happened every month, which is old blood brown is old blood Yeah, she she didn't know the difference of that time. Right, right, right? I want to say two things go ahead Lindsay one I think that there is a huge difference between a girl and I think it would even be not more noticeable a Girl that had previously struggled with eating disorders or whatever. I think it would be very noticeable a

pregnant belly over Letting herself go according to her mother so I think that that's one thing and Then the other thing is that if she was full term when she delivered the baby I also find it hard to believe that she was sitting on the toilet and a baby just fell out like I've given birth before and My baby didn't just fall out. It took 45 minutes of intense pushing for him to get out. So That's strange to me as well. Right. It was strange to everybody and I think everybody It believed that she was guilty

But they had an expert dr. John white who is an OBGYN who specialized in instill births And he explained to the jury what happened what happens in these situations is The umbilical cord of a normal baby is rich and thick the umbilical cord of a baby that is Is growth restricted because Skyler's baby was probably growth-restricted because a doctor put her at 32 weeks instead of 40 weeks That means the baby was small and they checked with her school physicals and her weight at the doctor's appointments she had only gained 15 pounds for a pregnancy and What happens is when I believe she was in labor for two days But you know, nobody knew that she was in labor the umbilical cord snapped because it's thin and weak and once the umbilical cord

Detaches the baby's skull collapses It kind of goes in and then it just plunks out of you And I think that was dr. White's first indication that she's telling the truth because he says he has he has women Patients who say they want to go to the bathroom They go to the bathroom and they deliver the baby on the toilet and when you have dead babies They do plunk out of you when he was first given this assessment You know, he didn't know what to make of it. He didn't want the case because there was so much of notoriety attached to it Right, and but when he read all the notes and he you know read everything. He believed her

He said I he called attorney and said I think she's telling the truth it is hard to believe, you know, we've had kids, you know ourselves and I Definitely there has to be some degree of mental illness here, right? Because yes, absolutely after you give birth Whether you know, you're pregnant or not. I don't think that most people their first thought is to bury a baby

Was it ever determined, you know, definitely that the baby was burned burned or not burned? Yes, it was definite So what happened was after she goes to the first police interview on July 14 She tells the police what happens and then they come to take the bones She shows them where she had buried the baby and they take the bones back to this state anthropologist Who takes one look at the bones because they are black and she buried the baby without any clothes She's put the baby in the soil and the soil in the in the village that she lives car is black And the sun was shining down on those bones so that the combination of the soil and the heat

Kind of made the bones look very dark very black So the state forensic anthropologist took one look at them and said this this is burned and then she just eyeballed it She didn't do any tests and she said she has to leave for Europe She'll come back in two weeks and then she'll do more testing So now the prosecutor tells the the detectives on the case this This this baby's bones were burned go get Skyler and go get her to admit that she did that and under that for our Examination when they did their best to break her and they told her she'll be in no trouble at all they did this technique which is called the read technique which was used at trial and

She tells them yes, I killed the baby. Yes. I burnt the baby. Yes. I did everything whatever she wanted them I mean at one point she says I want my mommy I want to go home and they tell her that you know, they just want to finish the interview so that they can give her daughter the burial she deserves and she you know, they play on her guilt and She tells them everything then the anthropologist comes back two weeks later And she looks as she examines the bones and says she was wrong The bones are not burned and the state prosecutors officers really really upset And they hide that from the defense till till November and then the defense subpoenas all the emails and they showed them in court

She tells the other anthropologist that I think the prosecutor's office is very upset with me I've seemed to have Appended the apple cart because I said the baby's bones were burned and they are not but it is what it is I'm not going to lie To them. I ain't gonna lie for them. So she made a mistake But Skyler acknowledged the fact that she burned the body Yes, she said she took a lighter and the flames went up to the chest Yeah, so which is probably not realistic. You can't just light somebody on fire without an accelerant

Yeah, and she said whatever they wanted her to say I I'm from India and my my mother's Hindu and they bury they're dead and I can tell you that stench of that burning body It doesn't leave your clothes or all the surrounding area, which is why they do cremations at You know away from the city near the ocean because the stench is so bad if she had burnt the baby Those early morning joggers who are out there for in the morning, but they would have smelted. Her parents would have woken up Okay, burning a body is really hard How how do you remain?

unbiased Do you feel like she was guilty? Do you feel like she got how do you keep your personal feelings out of this case? I went in I went in believing she was a monster I went in believing that she she disgusted Me the idea of somebody burning her baby really made me throw up. It sickened me I did not believe she was not guilty going in And I fully went into her house fully went into the aunt and uncle's house believing that Okay, let me see what they're going to say. But when they talked about her and when they showed me all the pictures and they showed me

her eating disorder I I started to believe it and then I start talked about I think it's we're gonna 300 people in her village before I wrote the book before The research and they all said it is impossible that she would do that And what came out of it was that she loved and feared her mother equally She was terrified of her mother and she could not tell her at all. She want to disappoint her And it makes sense when I go back to the rest of her life She was raped on a 14th birthday It took her two years to tell her mother and that's only because she had to

Because the person began stalking her He came with his motorcycle and knocked off their mailbox and she didn't have a choice But it took her nine months to come to the come to terms with the fact that she was assaulted And took her six months to tell her friends and another almost another year to tell her mother She would not tell her mother anything. What was what was the fear? What was the reason for the fear of her mom? Do you know she could be very mean she could be very sharp and she could be very cruel And that's what her mother said to me that I wasn't a good mother before

Oh, she said she admitted that to you. Yeah, she said she had she was very sharp very rude very mean She could almost be cruel sometimes Being a scholar's eating disorders just drove her insane They had screaming fights and banging doors every single evening in the house While outside they looked like the perfect family weld rare sweet girls sweet together. Yeah Inside the house. It was just a different story. It was just horrible So you feel like it's true to say that Parents who are strict create sneaky children because that is exactly what this sounds like to me that she feared her mother

So much and that anything that she did That her mother might shame her for she was going to hide it from her for as long as she possibly could Yes, because her friends told me that after she told her mother She was sexually she was sexually assaulted When she wanted to go to parties her mother would throw that in her face and said You think you can judge what it's like to go to a party. You think you're gonna know who you're gonna mix with You're the girl who got sexually assaulted and that hurt a lot So Skylar felt that if she did tell her mother the truth

It would later be used against her and she could not get past the fact that I mean at that moment when she gave birth and she was holding the dead baby I mean She knew that her mother will never get past this and the angst would follow her for the rest of her life And she really didn't know what to do with it at that time. She thought this is the best she can do Of course looking back now There are hundred different ways To handle the situation right, but what about the text messages about her body after the fact she

Didn't really seem to be Remorseful, you know when she's talking, you know in terms of her body and how happy she is that she got her body back She doesn't mention, you know a baby I feel like she says something along the lines of I had the worst night ever Um, but I'm better now How do we make sense of those text messages because I feel like that was It almost made it feel premeditated like I'm I'm not gonna have this baby I'm not gonna this baby will never exist kind of thing

Right and the prosecution opened with that to text message. They said omg my belly is back And I'm never ever going to let it look like this again You're going to see me looking freaking better than I've ever looked before And there is I think that when you as a reporter cover crime And you see charges against a young person It is almost always some kind of dysfunctionality in the home and some kind of mental illness in Skyler's case there were both those factors and The dysfunctionality that she had with her mother was her mother

She wanted her to be absolutely perfect And she would sign her up for exercise classes and try to do a diet for her She wanted her to look good She wanted her to be the center of attention and people have explained it to me by saying that when kim was in high school She wasn't pretty or popular and she needed braces I think at that time friends now looking back say that maybe at that time she decided her daughter was going to be completely different And you know when you have a final something girls typically turn up in sweats with their hair done up in a bun Skyler was never like that. Skyler's makeup wasn't point her lipstick matched

She looked perfect because that's how her mother wanted her to look And she her mother had made so so many comments about her You know looking not good letting herself go to part and stuff like that. So when she She did that in an attempt to please her mother. She said look, I'm all good now. Look how great I look Hoping that now she's got her mother's approval. It's a very odd dynamic Which even in in five years. I have not been able to completely understand it and I spoke to a psychologist Who told me you're not going to understand because you're not in that situation and when they had

a psychologist who she had seen who tested her and he found her to be um, you know anxious and and having a lot of issues he said that She was in denial and shock at that time. She pretended nothing happened This was just a normal day and her job She fell in any cost was to please her mother and say that yes, my body's back I look great and she got a text message back from mother saying that's fantastic Can you tell us did they release any information about her? mental health

Through the trial. Yes. They said she has a personality disorder and she Is unable to stand up for herself She gives into authority figures. She cannot handle confrontation and they got her teacher some teachers and her friends in school who would who told The court how she would run away from bullies how she did she did anything to avoid confrontation In the final year of high school. She ate lunch in a teacher's room Where she was a student date because she could not she could not stand up to the police anymore

And so she she was a people pleaser. She was having any friends. Did she have like a group of friends? You know, here's another part of it She had friends but her mother monitored her friends and if somebody had a tattoo or was from like Uh, you know what they call a broken family like a single parent or they weren't like wealthy enough Scala wasn't allowed to go out with them. Scala couldn't hear certain music at home. She would hear it in her car And so she would want to be friends with everybody, but her circle was very controlled She basically had one best friend But she was in a sense friends with everybody because she was very well liked and popular but extremely lonely at times

So she's created these layers and shells to hide from people and she always has this perfect smile no matter how she's feeling I want to talk about the base bag real quick because we are on vacation And I have my weekender bag with me. I absolutely love it people always say it's about the journey Not the destination and the right getting there effortlessly is what base luggage and bags were made for I love my weekender bag I have it in like the beige color and I have my crocs on the bottom So they're not touching any other of anything else to my stuff. I absolutely love it And I I bet you would just wish that your luggage did not scream. I'm on a business trip, you know I saw your video

Um on instagram about this bag and this bag actually arrived at my house So my grandmother was here and she was raving about how pretty she thought the bag was I got the neutral one So I don't know if we have the same one but y'all know about how I am about shoes and Them touching things like my floor or just like my clothes anything and so I love that I'm able to put my shoes on the bottom of that bag also same I love it and it's cool because base was created by actress Shea Mitchell

Which I'm a huge I'm a huge fan of her So I love that and she has designed sleek affordable bags luggage and accessories If you guys want to try this right now base is offering our listeners 15 percent off your first purchase by visiting base travel comm slash coffee go to base travel comm slash coffee for 15 percent off your first purchase That's b e is travel comm slash coffee What is your relationship with skylar and her family now have because I know that you released the book This has been your case since day one. So have they had any Feelings on it. Are they upset with you? Are you guys okay? Like what does that look like for you guys now?

um, they're fine, but um But skylar feels a little bit like an object in a circus She felt that everybody had forgotten her now. Everybody's looking at her again And on september 27th. She has this hearing in court to seal her records. Right. I did read that So what what is her reasoning to seal the records? I mean at this point everyone already knows them everyone is Like what would be what is her end goal? What is her end game and is she still talking to you like is are you still covering all of it? Yes, um, she's not talking that much to me. I'm trying to give her a lot of space because it's too overwhelming for her right now

But the ceiling got very little oppressed Her reasoning is that um, she would be able to get financial aid to go to grad school law school and It would be easier in terms of housing And employment has been a huge issue. They hire her and then everybody, uh, you know The co-workers find out and they pull up all the cold documents and then they're really nasty to her She's had to leave a lot of jobs And now she only works in attorney's office because that's a safe environment for her. They love her. They care for her and

It's easy. She got hired at an attorney's office Her own attorney's office her own attorney. Okay. Okay. I mean that she's been working there since before trial Okay, so so she's still in carlyle. Yes That's so interesting. I mean, I say all the time the internet never sleeps and It's permanent, right? So To seal records that are already out there, you know, if someone wants to find them They're gonna get them whether they're sealed or whether they're not it's just going to prevent Future people from being able to get in and pull the documents themselves

But if people want to search the internet hard enough, they can probably find them Oh, she yeah, she's very unlucky in that sense, especially choosing to live locally Um, you know, there's no place that she can go to where she's not recognized People don't usually give away the fact that they recognize her So she has some sense of peace with people who are like, you know, grown ups and don't want to upset her But other people are not like that. They stare at her. They still point and And you know people can when people who do have the record seal do have a degree of peace and anonymity and they can go on But in her case, that's not going to happen. But what is going to change?

I think in terms of financial aid because she can tell, uh, you know, financial aid advisor that I don't have that felony conviction anymore is removed from my record and, um, In terms of getting housing so far Charlie her her attorney had to write letters for her to get housing Like for rentals rentals. Yeah, that's a problem if you have a felony conviction So once all that is removed, she'll be able to get student loans and employment and I mean Housing employment is still a huge challenge. I think in many ways Yeah, if she moved somewhere else, it'd be much easier

Are her plans to go to law school? Yes. I don't know. She's very fragile though very fragile and not doing well anything triggers off all the memories all the You know the nightmares of being in the police interrogation room Being held in jail while she was awaiting bond Being shackled in the courtroom and and they paraded her all over the courtroom with all the media of the world staring I mean during trial she had, um, you know, everybody looking at her It is so hard those memories. It's such a dark time That anything triggers off the the memory and she tries to keep buried

It's hard as a mom to have empathy even though I do understand Um, the trauma that she probably had at home and the eating disorder the mental illness I understand all of that, but it is very difficult to not be angry, um and I don't have sometimes I believe in second opinion second, um, You know chances second chances. Thank you Lindsay And sometimes I don't and I I'm having a hard time with this one

Um, I would be lying if I sat here and said, you know, I don't think that People should talk about her whisper about it. I mean, this is these are real decisions that she made and You know, I don't know I don't know because I in an interrogation videos that I watched in the interviews And this could have been, you know, the police just trying to get her to admit to things, you know, she Like you said she would say whatever she wanted what they wanted Um, they said, you know, did the baby make any noise and at first it was no But then it turned it changed to well, she might have whimpered. She might have made some noises

Yeah, they fed her that word and I've noticed that with Skylo when I talk to her and I see something like so You're your upbeat. You're you're going to get through this. You're resilient a few sentences later. She spit that back at me Yes, I'm resilient. I can get over it and she repeats things that you tell her Okay, Skylo's mental capacity. She may be 23 now, but she is still at that 1718 level She's grown up a lot since then but she was I mean, she was so controlled and so sheltered She was only able to go to school and come back from school. That's it and she stayed home She had very little contact with anybody

Would that be considered like an adverse childhood experience that She had that, you know Also shaped her into who she is. Yes. Yeah, she um, stunted Herman Lee Yeah Skylo had a lot of issues and this I mean what she did was was kind of I mean not expected but if you have so much of So much of anxiety these eating disorders and then you have this problem with your mother this dysfunctionality

It was bound to explode sooner or later, but not like this. Nobody expected this But everybody expected that one day she'll storm out of the house or something would happen I'm with Kale. Um, I think it's really hard to have empathy for someone just coming from a place of of being a mother and Knowing what that is like It's hard for me to Be empathetic in this situation Um, I get it. I think that she chose to fight violence with violence when she chose what she did like

Her mom was Whether you want to deem it violent In my opinion Abusing someone mentally and emotionally in the way that she probably was is a violent act Um, but then choosing to do what Skyler did that's not an excuse To make those decisions. Um, I think that there is definitely some major mental things that are going on that would Right be involved with someone birthing a baby in a bathroom

Wrapping it in a towel, taking it outside Attempting to bury it whether it be a shallow grave or not The attempt was to to bury the baby for it to be hidden And then to go and use a chemical to clean up the mess Bleach. Yeah, she used bleach. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I absolutely agree with you But what I do want to say in Skyler's defense was is that she was 12 years old when she started exhibiting um these You know these

This I don't even I don't know how to describe it when it was obvious that she was suffering from depression She had anxiety. She had OCD. She had these eating disorders. She started to cut herself started to starve herself And at that point they took her to the doctor and the doctor said that she needs therapy She needs to go to psychologists and they didn't want to take her because parents were better or worse Have the child's best interests at heart and they just thought that if they take her to a professional She'll get much worse Right like the stigma with going to therapy and mental health and all of that Had she gotten that help? I don't know whether we would be here today

And you're absolutely right about everything you're saying about the birth about I know it looks callous I know how indifferent it looks and how it's sickens people that the baby never had a chance at all I mean if she had call 911 if the ambulance had come I mean, maybe if the baby was put into an incubator, maybe there was a chance and I understand everybody's haunted by that But I want you to know the person who beats herself up every day and is most haunted by that is kyla She doesn't sleep well. She I mean she cries every night She wakes up with a pillow wet She goes and she lays her head down on toilet and apologizes to her daughter and she says I'm so sorry

I would give anything for you to be here and she's getting worse and worse and worse I mean she makes two steps forward one step back then two steps forward I mean it is difficult to deal with the death of a baby But I mean the feeling that she had holding that dead baby that shock Two two points that I would like to make here is I think that When you make big life decisions like she did there's big life consequences for the things that you do And so that's one. So You know, I

I feel like because of what she did she should have to suffer the consequences for those things because these are the consequences for what she did outside of that I think that her parents You know that opens up the whole argument of negligence And if she was experiencing mental illness

and You know these eating disorders and whatever as early as 12 years old And her parents didn't get the help that she needed at that point Then you look back on the parenting and say Okay, the parents have a part to play in this as well. Right. Absolutely. I agree with that They definitely need to look in the mirror hard and and I don't know. Maybe they have because like I said when I saw the interviews, you know, they They seemed very sincere Yes, they are

The father especially is yeah Is sad and struggling. He struggles every day into his horror. He took his daughter When he took his daughter and to the door of the police station He was opening the door for her to possibly be going to prison for the rest of his life and that has created so much trauma for him That it's almost unbearable to live with right. I mean, I can't imagine being a parent um, especially like the dad and if he he wasn't as much on board with The abuse that skyler was experiencing from the mother that that would be hard because he has to live with

The mother every day, right? And then also knowing what his daughter's done And then also living with the regret of not getting her help when they probably should have gotten her help And then knowing that she deals with this every single day of her life. That would be very hard as a parent right He wasn't aware of what was going on with kim and skyler. He thought this was just girl stuff So he didn't interfere but kim was buying her laxatives and water pills and and she would surround wrap her waist and then put this Spannix cincher and then make her wear and scott wasn't aware of any of it

He didn't know what was going on and he didn't talk to skyler so much He basically talked to skyler through her mother. Her mother would text the father and say Skyler wants to do this can't she and he would text back at that point He didn't have much of a relationship with skyler. He does now now. He talks to her a lot and See, I do believe his whole side and I could see where all of The disconnect could come

Right on his part, you know, if the mom was Doing all of this stuff and it was behind his back and he had no idea and skyler wasn't sharing those things because of the lack Of the relationship that to me is a very believable aspect of the story Right, but skyler is aware of the consequences. She's aware and she does say she did tell me that I understand why people hate me. I understand why they judge me. I deserve it because I've lost my daughter I've lost a child I could have had And she's so sorry. She says I'm forever. Sorry. I'm really sorry, but I mean, I know it's done now She has to live. She lives the rest of her life with it every day. She lives with them, right?

Where where can people find your book and is there anything else that you want to share with us before we go? It's on amazon and I know when I talked to you guys you guys are very worldly very smart mothers And I know it's hard, but I would just like to ask for compassion for skyler I mean, I understand she made really bad choices But I just hope that people will move on and say, okay, you know, it was a bad thing to do But maybe she deserves a second chance. I'm definitely going to think about it. I need to I'm going to read the book I'm gonna I'll definitely give it some thought. I'm not going to promise you anything because I do not have any empathy

for her, but what I will say is that I will be committed to diving into your book reading more about it and holding further judgment until we do so, um, we will make sure that we link your book on our instagram account and for everyone who has not followed us on at coffee combos podcast on instagram Please make sure you follow us over there and if you have not subscribed to our show You can find us on any podcast app and as always podcast one will be released in the episode first Um, and I hope that you guys all have a great week and we'll talk to you soon