Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - True Crime: Lori Vallow

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

EP247: On this month's true crime bonus episode we cover Lori Vallow from the netflix series Sins Of Our Mother.  Thank you to our sponsors! Best Fiends: Download Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play Chime: Get started at chime.com/convos Clare: Go to clare.com/COFFEECONVOS for 10% off your order

I hate gift-giving and receiving receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say? Thank you This is coffee convos with Kale Lowry and Lindsay Chrisley. I really want you to be in your feels Kale That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you a spirited discussion about motherhood friendship Family and life in the public eye. I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here Here's Kale and Lindsay All right kitty gang We're recording. We're on the end. What we're on the air This is me and my recording voice I was talking shit and cussing right before this so

Welcome to a true crime. Yeah, welcome to true crime. This is we are the crime Before we get into the true crime, uh-huh, I know that this is old news But since you said on a previous recording that like you're just like very invested in the Kardashians right now and like Love them so much. Mm-hmm. I forgot to read you this article that I found so I was like now would be the time to do it It says Kim trolling Pete Davidson broke up with Kim Kardashian over these two major red flags Oh, I don't know if this is a legitimate source So this could like literally be gossip like I don't know but it struck my interest

So it says Los Angeles, California Celebrity couple Kim Kardashian and Pete Davidson called it quits on their relationship nearly a month ago while the relationship lasted around nine months Most people believe that it was Kim who must have pulled the plug owing it to Pete's immaturity and lack of seriousness Now sources claim that it was the other way around it has been reported that the 28 year old comedian Who decided to break up with the skims founder owing it to two major red flags that he noticed when he was dating Kim The pressures that accompanied the constant attention on their relationship unnerved Davidson and were too much for him on top of that He was reportedly annoyed by Kim's constant controlling behavior and her tendency to micromanage every aspect of his life According to a sport a source who spoke to heat world Pete went into this relationship with the best of intentions

He feels bad that Kim's upset by his decision to end things but also feels like he was left with no choice However, things escalated to such an extent that he was apparently left with no other choice He felt that his dating life had taken center stage Overshadowing his personal accomplishments It had reached the point where it was all people asked him about like his career was successful But he was Mr. Kim Kardashian Well, I have a lot to say about that. I know you do. That's why I was brought this up. I Completely understand like if that is true because obviously we don't know but

If that is true, I Completely understand where he's coming from and I could see why you know that would it's kind of like James Harden and Chloe Kardashian because allegedly James Harden broke up with her and you know, whatever whatever Um Kim is Kim fucking Kardashian. Like what did you think was gonna happen when you got with her? You know, like I mean, I guess he's been with other stars like Ariana Grande But it's not Kim Kardashian and Kim Kardashian's entire life is a brand like she has to micromanage Every single thing in her life. So as much as I understand

We're just going with the fact that this is true, right? Like we're just gonna assume that these are Legitimate things he knew that everything about Kim Kardashian was publicly followed and that she was a face of the family and also reality TV and so Knowing that there's two sides of it, right? It's like until you're in it. You might not understand it But then also read the room. You're in the industry. So When you know better do better, right, right? Well, and also, you know, maybe and I hope this doesn't come across as rude as Pete because I don't have anything against Pete but

Sometimes you have to be with someone who's on your same playing field and Maybe he just isn't not to say that his accomplishments and his achieves achievements are any less than But he just may not be on her level, you know, like When my therapist told me a year or two ago, my ex needs a two because he is a two, you know and not in terms of looks but in terms of effort in terms of accomplishments in terms of Financial, you know, just like across the board. He's a two. He needs he requires a two anyone who's above that is going to skew Skew the relationship and make it a little more difficult. So maybe Pete is an eight and Kim is a 15 and Kim needs a 15 or higher She might need someone who's not necessarily in the entertainment industry

But maybe someone who makes as much as she does who micromanages their businesses as much as she does so Lots to say off of all of the points that you just made because Kristen and I were actually talking about this on the southern tee like At some point that my parents always told me growing up that you Should be with someone who is equally yoked and that's biblical But in the senses that you're talking about and what your therapist said that has nothing to do with financials Nothing to do with Looks it's literally like a combination of all of the things right a combination

Not I'm not right like I'm not I don't mean to put emphasis on financials I just mean across the board like more evenly yoked like you said but at the same time when he's saying things like she micromanages me and you know Everything is about the public appearance and whatever like didn't you know this? Have you ever read anything about the Kardashians before deciding to date the one who literally created jobs for all of them? Like in a sense, there is a public appearance to keep up But I think that they also privately keep that same appearance. I agree. I agree with you I think they yes, even privately. I think

I think maybe more relaxed but also still have to micromanage. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I mean think of us on our little itty-bitty baby reality TV scale We still have to micromanage when we're not on social media when we're not in the public eye when we're not doing Brand deals and we're not doing this and that we still have to micromanage behind the scenes So does so does the car-gender family. I love that you call them the car-geners because I feel like they it's you got to include the Genres too, you know, I know but then also like the article goes on to talk about how you know the exercise regimen and how Kim's like super into fitness now and how you know He needed to keep up with her weight loss regimen and get in shape stay off the junk food

look the part of her future husband and I think that There's a lot to say about that too because as much as that sounds negative and a negative spin on that I don't think so that when You are trying to make positive life changes and the way that she is that you are Who and what you surround yourself with and so it would be very hard to be on this fitness journey And then have somebody just you know Junking out like all this candy, you know, whatever whatever he was doing

so there's like two sides of that too and then he had referenced about Christianer and you know, basically like her micromanaging everything well I think she's acknowledged that publicly that she you know Manages all of her children and it's over a full-time job, and I don't know why that would be news No, I agree with you also Going back to your point about the just the eat just the eating and healthy aspect in general and I'm

Not holding up my end of the deal When it comes to my appearance, but your partner is supposed to be a reflection of you especially in the entertainment industry so Not only privately would it make it really difficult if he wasn't doing these same things as her Their public image is not gonna be able to be it's not gonna mesh If he's completely not taking care of himself, and she's completely fit dressed to the nines You know just very Kim Kardashian it just does it truly does not work, and I think that you should celebrate

Differences with interrelationship, but if things are just so very different that it doesn't mesh then at that point It's like okay It's time for the ship to sail and to move on as much as I wanted Kim and Pete to like Be a thing and for her to have that edgy guy that was kind of like nonchalant and whatever because I do think there's Something very appealing about that At the same time she did an interview and I think Kristen and I were talking about this too I don't know if it was privately or on the southern tee, but she did an interview About how she felt like in her future that you know

Maybe she would date like a doctor or an attorney or whatever. She was looking outside of the industry Yep, and I had the conversation with suburban dad when we were on a walk yesterday because I remember saying that to myself like Not that Someone outside of the entertainment industry is normal automatically But the sense of normalcy that they can bring to the relationship. I find that very appealing It's kind of like Helps you stay a little bit grounded

And and yeah have some sense of of normalcy on what the society would say is like a normal level, right? But Um, you know, I think maybe it's situational. So someone with the level of Fame and success that she has had I think it would be very hard to have someone who is not So secure in themselves and have their own career path outside of what she's doing, right? No, I definitely agree with that. I agree with your points there So outside of that, um, I have been literally just going nuts trying to get all of my shit together To head to Nashville and I will tell you that I bitch about packing all the time I've bitched about it on coffee combos so much, but truly I feel like I've done nothing

Have you ever been in a situation where you feel like trips just like go back to back and it's like pointless to even unpack Yeah, there was a time where I was traveling once or twice a month and I was like, I'm not even gonna unpack at all I'll wash the dirty clothes keep the clean ones in there and then put the dirty clothes that are washed back in the suitcase and be done. I Am finally adding I don't know if you've seen my stories or my Twitter Lindsay But I'm finally starting to decorate the upstairs You know sometimes when you move into a house It just takes a lot of time to just really get settled in and then put all the finishing touches everywhere Um, yeah, I'm still doing that like over a year later. So I definitely relate. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah

Well, I um, it hasn't been a year for me yet and I'm finally starting to go upstairs and like get things done So I actually found Claire, which is a new online paint brand that makes it just makes paint shopping easier I don't want to go to Lowe's. I don't want to go to Home Depot I don't want to go to retail stores to try to find paint stuff Claire takes the hassle out of paint shopping and it just has um designer curated colors and then mess-free peel and stick paint swatches Which is really nice so you can kind of see what things look like in the room with the lighting with all of that and I just want my house to reflect who I am as a person my style my kids styles if you know what I mean

Well for me, I feel like paint changes everything It's truly like the easiest and most and least expensive way to transform your home and make it feel more like you and I absolutely love that your kids all have different color rooms in your house I think um people are like what the heck because their styles are gonna change so much But honestly Claire will make it easier for me to switch out the colors anyway I also love that it's a female founded company. Yes Their founder and CEO is also an interior designer So she saw firsthand that like traditional paint shopping

Experience was truly like outdated and such a hassle So she decided to create a better brand and a whole new experience. It's easier and more convenient And to me that's super inspiring. Yes. I love that. So guys go to Claire comm slash coffee combos for 10% off your order That's Claire comm slash coffee combos for 10% off your order Speaking of running away I wanted to run away from this documentary that we're about to cover because I was so alarmed watching it We are going to be covering sins of our mother. It is a Netflix

Limited series. It's a three part series 50-minute episodes and It examines the case of a mother Lori Vallow Who apparently was brainwashed by a cult leader and accused of killing two of her children? It's still an ongoing case in the US and has attracted a ton of attention this documentary mainly tells the story through the lens of Vallow's surviving son son Colby and I just have a lot to say about this like I said before I love to cover true crime when

murders happen and Religion is also involved because I think it's like such complex Like it just adds an extra element of yes sinister almost. Yes So Lori Vallow when I saw her I was like, okay She's actually like a really like beautiful person to me like not that you know Not that every serial killer like murder is ugly. I'm just saying like when I looked at her and saw her on this documentary And then like looked up photos and stuff. I'm like, okay. She is like a very normal looking seemingly normal. She actually

Yeah, I mean looking at the pictures of her right now because I googled them. Obviously I saw them on the documentary too, but She seems like an everyday suburban mom that I would see. Yes. Yes Exactly, like you would see like maybe driving like a mini van at the elementary school. Yeah, literally. Yeah So Lori Vallow born Lori Cox brought up in San Bernardino, California and married twice while she was young She had a second marriage and in that marriage They had a son named Colby and that's who is seen in the documentary being interviewed like throughout the entire thing in 1996 That's when he was born and then she divorced two years later. Lori then married Joseph Anthony Ryan, Jr. in 2001

And Ryan adopted Colby as his own son Lori and Ryan gave birth to their daughter Tiley in 2002 and then split in 2005 and a year later She married Charles Charles Vallow and together they adopted his grand nephew Joshua Jackson JJ Vallow Vallow up until that point. Lori was pretty much seen as a picture-perfect mom There's footage that shown in the documentary around this time saying being a good mom and a good wife is very important to her and I think that that can be Very true in her mind like she was

Legitimately thinking this I believe but I think that she also is mentally ill and I do believe that there was a true brainwashing I also agree. I feel like I want I really want to be sensitive about this But it's a little bit difficult because I don't this specific Cult I guess and the beliefs and stuff you'd have to be mentally ill to believe some of the things that were believed totally like When I was watching my first thought was and it isn't sensitive when I say this because my first thought was How could you be so naive to think that this would even be?

Possibly true, right? Like even just a thought because if you came to me and you told me That you met someone who you know has all these beliefs and you're talking about zombies and things or you're suddenly Excluding yourself from like our friendship or our content trips or whatever it may be. I would be highly highly concerned And I would have to say that you're probably mentally ill if you believe that like zombies are out to get you agreed agreed So throughout this documentary it basically just covers like wouldn't you agree that it covers like a trail of death? Led by Lori and Chad Debo. Yes a 100% I think that they were involved in every single death that was spoken spoken about so I had no doubts like Throughout the entire documentary that they did it from the moment that she started communicating with him

I was like, okay Something about this like is just not right does anyone believe weird that they didn't have anything to do with it Well, I don't know. I'm sure there's gonna be people that are listening that's gonna, you know say well It could have been this person or it could have been that person There's so many people that kind of have different opinions, but to me. This is like very very clear-cut I think that It's so true that there was a statement made in the documentary That said that Lori was so deep in her belief that she was hard to reach and lived in a fantasy land

And I believe that to be a hundred percent. Oh, yes. I also believe that I and like I said I Think it was on either Facebook or maybe in our chat. I Was not familiar with this case at all before I watched the whole series I had like vaguely heard about because the name Tiley stuck out to me because my best friend's daughter I know that's who I thought of too. Yeah, and I had never heard that name ever in my life until Sterling So when I heard Tiley that but I never followed the story I didn't know what it was and I actually thought the kids came home

I didn't really know like I didn't follow up, but I agree with you I don't there's just so much to this case and I can't This oldest son who is basically not on his mom's side like just like telling the story So I just feel my heart goes out to him my heart also goes out to him because I do think that He was stuck between a rock in a hard place like Wanting to get through to his mom also

knowing what she was doing was Completely just like insane. Oh a hundred percent. So Lori had two older brothers named Alex and Adam Cox and their mother described them as basically both just like great and Lovers of their family and then Lori was the next child and she described her as a darling little girl And then she had a younger sister who was named summer They were raised in the church and loved the Book of Mormon The mom recalls that Lori took to it right away

she had been in a Miss Texas pageant and was also on Wheel of Fortune and Said that God told her that she was going to be on Wheel of Fortune I mean, I've talked to God and I've never like really been told to like be on Wheel of Fortune or like had any God knows better than to put me on Wheel of Fortune major because I would not win But like major direction in that way like I don't know but like maybe like I I can't you know speak on that I just thought that was a little odd and then

it said that It was talking about her husband Joe and How he was like a very sweet person at the beginning of the relationship and I feel like a lot of people can probably relate to this But then started becoming very annoyed with Colby and Colby said that he would punch him in the back of the head and Lori also admitted that she experienced abuse from Joe a little bit later and the documentary Colby at eight years old

alleges that he was sexually abused by Joe and Felt like that that's what ruined Lori's life and I just want to talk a little bit on that because I couldn't imagine Being eight years old being sexually abused by someone that one your parent has Married and trusted and then trusted that person with your child that was not theirs, right? right, but then also the pressure of knowing that this happened to you and You feel guilty for that happening to you when it wasn't a choice that happened to you And then you're carrying around a burden that does not belong to you because you fear that it's ruined your mother's life That's heavy. That's so heavy. That is so heavy and he seems to be so well put together

so well put together it said that she turned to the temple and It was kind of like a I want to say like a Recalling of you know the moments of these things happening and She decided that she was going to turn to the temple because her husband had raped and it said her children so I don't know if maybe like Colby is just telling his side of it and also Her other child was also raped

But it said that her husband had raped her children and she was going to murder him because she could not take it anymore Again, I don't want to say that I would like ever be a murderer But at the same time, I don't know what I would do if someone Assaulted my child. I don't know that any of us with children that have not had this type of experience Would know what they would do until they were faced with it in that moment. Yeah, I agree also I Probably would kill somebody if they assaulted my child in that way. So I agree. I mean, yes I don't want to say with me or at least I might not do it

But I would definitely I've thought about it because you're you're stealing a child's innocence. So I would first blow your kneecaps out Then I would calling. Yeah, you dick off with a butter knife. Mm-hmm, then I would gouge your eyeballs Yeah, I'm gonna stop there So Colby said that they moved from place to place a lot and from church to church and Then Laurie met Charles and talked about being financially secure in that relationship. So I Don't know if that was the major intent, but I do want to say that I do think that there was financial

Interest or gaze. Yeah throughout multiple parts of the documentary that she she was Motivated by money. I do believe that to be true What's the first thing that you do when you wake up? I'm sure that you because of Kristen One of the first things you do is probably check your credit score every day every single day Do you really do that? No, yeah, I do but I'm a little embarrassed but at time that's what they do So I'm just telling you with their secure online credit builder visa credit card

You can start to build credit with your own money and Kristen helped me She she actually introduced me to time and they report your payments to credit bureaus to help you build your credit over time Because for some reason I was getting mortgages and car loans, but I couldn't get credit cards So and it was really because I didn't have the credit history so She introduced me to this and it was great because all of this came with no annual fees large security deposits or credit checks to apply And so from there on out I really have been checking my credit on a regular basis just because I want to see

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Impact to score may vary and some user scores may not improve out of network ATM withdrawal fees may apply except at money pass ATMs in a 7-eleven or any all-point or visa plus Alliance ATM so JJ who is Reference in the documentary was said to be autistic and really loved Tiley and they had a A very much a bond. It was almost like What I would describe as the bond that I had with chase

I was seven years old whenever he was born and he was like my real-life baby doll I can very much relate to that and I think that Tiley very much took on a More motherly and nurturing type role knowing that JJ had needs that were different that need to be met right Um, so Colby had said that The church had basically started taking over their lives. So he started noticing things like being replaced in the home so like pictures of the church and stuff and that was placed all over the home and

I think that That could probably be said like I could see you like placing Pictures of like post Malone all over your house and like having like weird like maybe a picture of like crocs and like Like I could see you doing something like that. No, ma'am. I don't even have I don't have not one thing hanging on my walls Yeah, you probably have them like all in your camera roll and like weird shit like I could either on my camera roll I could totally see you like to me. This is like a type of person who gets like They get on a trend and then they get like very invested in that and then they like drop off Okay, does that make sense? Yeah, what I'm trying to say. Yes, like hyper fixating on certain things and then

And then it falls off and you get hyper fixated on something else Yes, like I feel like that was kind of like what was going except the fixation just Changed she just like started worshiping different stuff. So they moved to Hawaii in December of 2014 for three years and then end up moving back to Chandler Colby and Kelsey who was described as an emo girl she went to a Christian they went to a Christian church together and That was said to make Lori like really upset about that and so I just want to like say that I could understand that when you're a parent and you raise your kids up in a home where

You're like imprinting things on them And you want them to follow like the way and the things that you're doing and when they Go against that and now Colby's going to this Christian church I could see where She would maybe be like taken back by that and just kind of like well, what did I do wrong because I raised you this way And like you're doing this now, but at the same time I don't believe in imprinting on children so hard that like they can't

Make decisions for themselves when they become grown on what they want to do like they aren't you Yeah, I have I'm actually and I don't know if I've talked about it before on this podcast, but I think challenges a lot of the things that I say or that his dad says and You know, we've talked about really heavy topics and he he puts a lot of thought into them But he sometimes his thoughts are very different than Both me and his his father so to me I'm actually proud of him for challenging what we teach him and what we believe because I want him to be his own person But I do understand what you're saying and that a lot of families they want their kids to believe in

You know how they were how were they were raised whether it be Catholic Methodist non-denominational, whatever it is like Another a lot of families like that. And so I do understand her being a little upset by that I mean, I don't want to say it's like common in the South But it's because I've always lived in the South that I've heard plenty of parents say to their kids before like my friends parents Say to their kids like I raised you better or like you know better In this sense, I think that he was dating a girl who went to a Christian church and I think that he saw some red flags with his mom and There was like a curiosity there and also maybe like a support because he was in love with this girl So with the combination of the curiosity and then, you know, maybe wanting to explore things for himself that

You know, that's why this decision was made and I don't think that that's wrong Kelsey described Laurie as a meddler and Claimed that she would say like very off-the-wall things Like Jesus loves you but loves me most And I just think as a believer to say something like that is just like completely wrong and off the wall I don't believe that Jesus loves me more than he loves anybody else And so I think that that's just like a very off-the-wall statement and to me that that just screams that she's not well When Colby and Kelsey got married, Tylee was missing said to be on a ski trip

She's not missing her brother's wedding when they said that Mm-hmm. I know First of all, if if my Well, let me not say my siblings because I don't really have any Um, if one of my sons was to get married and then one of his brothers couldn't be there No, like you're canceling your plans. You're going to your brother's wedding Like it's like I don't care if you have a ski trip like a ski trip can be literally scheduled at any time So no, you're gonna go to the wedding, especially with how close the siblings did seem to be like Colby called his sister regularly

Wanted to talk to his siblings regularly Was very concerned about them very early on Um, so I definitely don't think that that was normal or made any sense So to me when it got to this situation Immediate flags went off because I was like, okay, Laurie has an issue with control That's what it said to me I know that it was said that she had an issue with Kelsey being the woman in Colby's life and I could totally see that Um, I think as a mom of a boy that that's probably a

hard thing to experience, um, I Couldn't even imagine. I know that like when I first started dating will His mom was kind of like standoffish and stuff But I was really like the first serious girl that any of the boys had dated and so I think I got the most pushback And then it was like a little bit more lax with the second one and then like way more lax with the third one I think it's probably like a natural thing for a mom with a son and also with it being your first child that

you know, that could that could happen, but I think that there has to be a way to Handle that without it becoming unhealthy. I think that there is a healthy level of Jealousy and feeling like oh, this is being taken from me because I know that my dad felt that way when I started dating will and like Will took me away But it has to be healthy. It has to be healthy. I I Feel like I've heard so many Momster in law stories that I feel like I don't want to be that but I guess I could understand, you know, especially

the first one Who gets married in the family or has a serious relationship and it it changes the dynamic a little bit. So I could see that so we're gonna get into the background of when Laurie started reading literature published by Chad Daybell. So this was in 2015 and Chad Daybell believed that the apocalypse was coming and also believed that humans could be graded from light to dark and The dark individuals were possessed by the devil while those who were light were followers of Jesus Christ And this is where I think like I know that this sounds insensitive

but like for anyone to Believe this and to believe that like there is a number scale That you know, basically like it's a mathematical equation and like you're a 4.1 or you're out, you know, whatever That to me just sounds insane That's literally It's like don't I don't mean to be ignorant

the LDS community like the more children you have the closer you are to God. Oh, yeah I mean, I I don't know where That really that idea like makes sense to me, but also I'm not LDS. So like I know Jehovah's Witnesses believe only a certain number of people are going to heaven And I mean, I don't want to say that like anybody's beliefs are Right or right, right? My beliefs are just my beliefs, but at the same time. I just also disagree with that I

Started thinking of What what's crazy girl who killed the boy in the shower? What? Crazy girl killed the boy in the shower areas. Yeah. Okay, so Immediately when it got to the part where it said that they met for the first time in 2008 and a preparing the people event in Arizona I immediately was like fuck Jodi areas like this is gonna be bad like she's immediately a murderer Like they met in an event and it just like all went south so Chad had shared with Lori that they had been married multiple times before and

Said seven lifetimes not on Like Earthside but in other life How could anyone believe that I Don't know how anyone could believe that like I don't believe I was married to anybody before in any past life No, because if I was I wouldn't have done it again in this lifetime Agreed or else you just like really didn't learn any lessons, right? Or I would have had a very success Sorry Lux just left the room Or it would have been a very successful marriage in this lifetime had I been married in in a past life time. It's just wild

So a few months later Well, they so they met in 20 or 2015 is when she started reading like his literature met in 2018 and then a few months later February 2019 Lori started growing distant from her family and according to JJ's grandparents Larry Woodcock and K. Valo Woodcock She simply just vanished for 58 days. She was completely gone is their recollection so in February 2019 Charles Valo filed for divorce and claimed that Lori had threatened to murder him took

$35,000 from their bank account and if you notice like money keeps coming up, right? So there's a motive so so there's a motive and also She had said that she decided to turn to the temple because she was gonna murder Joe as well So I'm like, okay. I believe Charles because she's also said this before Mm-hmm. So then they bring on a forensic psychologist and he's talking about how Chad is a missionary and Set all kinds of baptism records and I just want to like speak on that for a little bit because as much as I would

love for everybody to be baptized and to be able to Enter the kingdom of heaven. I don't really necessarily believe like personally that it should be like a record that you're trying to set to lead people to Christ because if they're not ready to go it is For possibly like the wrong reasons or like a lack of understanding. So Again, is it like really for the right reason? I Don't have anything to say about that

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New in-game events are added all of the time thousands of levels like keel said I truly think I'm around like the 2000 level and there's always more to play So go ahead and let enough is never enough be your mantra and download best fiends for free from the app store or Google Play Plus earn even more with a five dollars worth of in-game rewards when you reach level five That's friends without the R best fiends. I Feel like I love to see in church when I'm sitting in church and you know at the end of the sermon It's like if you've never invited Jesus to be in your life, you know, like if you would like to come forward or whatever There's like

Preachers at every aisle or whatever and they'll pray with you and I believe if you feel compelled To do that on your own without being encouraged by someone who's trying to set records Who also is said to be a very easily approachable quiet and a gentle person? I feel like based off of his Thinking that a lot of this stuff was self-serving and not for the right reasons time out So just question because I was I'm a little confused So the at the end of the sermon when they say that there's preachers at the end of every aisle You're saying that's for records or you think that no

Had was doing what he was doing for records. Yeah, like got it Okay That's I think that is set in church for like everybody that like wants to come forward and they feel Like they want to invite Jesus into their heart that there's someone there to listen to them And they will pray with them and whatever like I feel like that is the right reasons and I don't necessarily think that anybody there is trying to set any type of record I think with this, you know him being a missionary and setting all types of bad things And records and talking about how he was just like so approachable um to me

an approachable person that is in This type of work like missionary work could also be very Uh could get someone to do what they want them to do Even if it's not what they want to do does that make sense? Yes, it does. Um, so Tammy, um chad was actually married to a woman named Tammy And um, he was married to the first woman that he ever really dated which kind of makes sense to me just based off of his beliefs. Um, it really does make sense to me

and What he was trying to do was create a religion off the back of Mormonism So like using some of their principles and then his own His own thoughts to like create his own religion. Wait, can I just say to Every time I hear about a cult, I know what you're about to say I know why is it that they all seem to be off the back of Mormonism? LDS don't know. Okay. So Charles said that he thought um that

Lori thought that she was above him like a resurrected being and um, She had said that he had been cheating on her and like his account was she had threatened to murder him Um, and was calling him Nick Schneider. She said I will kill you. You're not Charles. You're Nick Schneider So at this point, I'm like, okay. Um, she's like brainwashed at this point And then Charles just tried to get her picked up on like this mandatory pickup to get her help

So I'm like totally team Charles because I'm like, she does need help and she's had Like a mental snap or brainwashing if she's literally calling him something that's not his name Right and calling him fucking Nick Schneider. I'm like, he's not Nick Schneider. He's Charles Valo I want to say I want to say the next part What that they ended up thinking that he was the crazy one? Yes That Lori was essentially the victim and she was able to like charm her way through These interrogations by the police officers. And I think that's that's literal Susie vibes. Like my mom

Like literally this happens all the time though. I feel like in these types of situations for real No, I swear to God in my mom's prime. She could convince anyone of any fucking thing like My mom was so pretty. She any like it didn't matter what it was. I swear to God Like my mom will pick me up drunk. They'd call her down to call us down to the office And she'd have some excuse and they'd let it go like it would be That is like narcissism, but like charming but like mentally ill but also it's just like a compilation of is that a word compilation? compilation compilation of things but it's also like two of my

Exes who you just like forget that you hate and you forget that they're crazy when you're next to them But then you take a step back and you're like, oh fuck like they're not safe or well It's called like master manipulation and also There's a mental illness aspect, but also I'm not trying to diagnose anybody I'm just saying like general mental illness like that does play a part in this because any person that told me you're not like That told me you're not Lindsay you're Nick Schneider. I'm gonna be like bitch. I'm calling 9-1-1 Like 5150 immediately immediately

And then the fact that she goes through the psychological evaluation does not get committed They interview Charles and then they decide that Charles is more nutty than Lori I felt so bad for Charles when I when I watched that part. I was like, oh my heart breaks for him because You you love someone at least to a degree where you want them to get help So he at least loved her enough that he through all the bullshit He wanted someone to listen to him so that she could get help And nobody listened Well, and I would just like to say outside of this case

I believe that this happens very often and oftentimes the victim goes on heard And the person who is the perpetrator in the situation Is so deranged and such master manipulators a lot of times That they manipulate their way out of the situation and then people end up dead Like Casey Anthony Yes So July 11th, 2019 This is in Chandler, Arizona

Alex cock which Alex cock cock cock. No Cox Cox Got in a fight with Charles shoots him and what he claims a self-defense Mind you, this is five months after filing an order of protection against Lori Charles allegedly hit him with a baseball bat Alex grabs his gun says that he shot him to stop him from hitting him with the bat And then the police did not pursue the matter any further and alleged that the argument all stemmed from things about Lori So I'm going to stop you right there

If a grown man hit me with a bat I'm going to be injured I'm going to be severely injured Most likely Unconscious Not be able to pick up a gun and shoot somebody not once but multiple times at point blank range Even like all my Joe's probably not smaller than me now But Chris and Javi are both much skinnier than me

They still would be able to severely injure me if they hit me in the head with a bat So we're talking about a grown man hitting another grown man You're going to be he was able to talk tell the story Everything And I don't remember correct me if I'm wrong but he didn't it didn't look like he was hit in the head with a bat So it said that he did have like a laceration or whatever but it wasn't significant And my thoughts are if another if it's two grown men and a grown man took a bat and was swinging on the other one One he's like you said he's not going to be able to do what he did

Right So I don't believe it to be self-defense at all But what was so alarming was the fact that Lori takes a rental car Takes JJ to Burger King and then to school Takes Tiley to Walgreens for herself and Tiley to get like flip flops or something I said I think is what they said And then she returns to the home Lori claims that she saw some things on Charles' phone that really upset her

And that's when she and Charles got in an argument And that's when Tiley woke up got the bat and then that's what woke Alex up In July of 2019, Phoenix, Arizona, an investigative reporter Only one that really takes an interest in the case It starts, you know, investigating And he says that Lori never asked if Charles was okay And her husband had just died He said that Lori seemed very ready for this and it's kind of like expected for it to happen

So almost like a premeditation type situation And Alex didn't call the police until 43 minutes after he had called Lori And he claimed in the 911 call, I don't know if you remember this But he claimed that he was like attempting CPR But based off of all of the reports It showed that he had never really given any type of medical attention to Charles Because he fucking knew that he was dead And also he was shot while he was laying on the ground

So if he was laying on the ground, you wouldn't be shooting someone laying on the ground in self-defense Agreed, I agree That's like overkill So Lori tells JJ's school that Charles committed suicide And throughout this documentary, it says that she had three different stories She also told Colby and Kelsey that he had had a heart attack And then within days, Lori files a claim with Charles' life insurance policy Again, money finds out that she is no longer the beneficiary of his $1 million life insurance policy

So wouldn't that be a bitch? Like, karma's real I understand so many, like I have literally been homeless and slept with a child in a homeless shelter And couldn't pay to go to school, I've been on food, like I've done it all I do not understand the motive behind the insurance policies as if they are not going to look into it I've watched so much true crime, like they clearly didn't watch any true crime No, they were just literally like, to me it almost seems like a brainwashed person or people But also impulsive in nature

Yeah Like the thoughts were there and like probably mostly premeditated But also I do think that she was kind of like an impulsive being So fast forward to September 2019 Lori had told JJ's school that she would be withdrawing him from homeschooling And he was never seen from September 23rd of 2019 And Tyler was last seen in public on September 8th of 2019 At that point Colby had been texting Tyler and she would respond

But he had not talked to her on the phone and he said that the text didn't feel right And he ended up calling it out to his mom And at that point Lori shut Tyler's phone off Kelsey then started her own investigation She found family history email with Chad Debelle And list of family and friends that were listed as light and dark spirits on this email So a list of who is good and who is evil Based off of the scientific system that very clearly was not scientific

Chad said that there was I can't help but laugh Because there was 20,000 zombies and the goal was believed to eradicate all of them And if you wanted to know who the zombies are, you have to go to Chad Insane, who the fuck would believe that? Maybe I should start my own cult No, that's going to be in the next headline, Kill Lori Starts Cult So if the zombies were there, they needed to be eliminated

And that's how they justified the murders that they were involved in Mentally, that's how they were justifying it These were zombies and they needed to be eliminated And this was like their calling And so that's why they could murder So on October 19, 2019, that is the date of death of Chad Debelle's wife, Tammy Was said that she died in a highly suspicious circumstances 10 days after calling a police and telling them that a mask intruder had tried to shoot her

It was said that she died of natural causes according to Chad And there was no autopsy done, but her body was exhumed and an investigation was carried out But results were never made public, but the case was reopened At that time, Chad had made $430,000 from Tammy's life insurance policy after her death And one of the most alarming beliefs out of this entire thing is that he believed that the world would end July 22nd, 2020 And all of these couples that were around them and his following were trying to get married to meet this deadline Because they had to get married on Earth's side, which is just insane And they didn't even necessarily know each other, I think they met after two weeks

Yeah, literally So then we're in Idaho by November 26, 2019 And the Rexburg police detective was asked to do a welfare check from Gilbert Police Department on JJ So they make contact with Alex Cox and Chad Debelle and ask if JJ was home And he was told that he was with his grandma Kay in Louisiana Which obviously is not true because grandma Kay and the granddad were the one who called to do a welfare check So Lori then talks to the detective and she claims that he's with one of her friends in Arizona, Melanie Gibb So the next day they have to get a search warrant and they find the house is empty, everyone's gone

And then November 27, 2019, Kelsey said the police came looking for Tyler and JJ The case quickly becomes a national story Media basically had to play catch up from everything that had been happening months prior And in December of 2019, Tammy's body was exhumed December 12, 2019, Alex dies at his house, blood clots in his lungs Allegedly Allegedly, the mom did say that that ran in the family But who's to say that like Lori didn't know that that did run in the family

And she was like so premeditated that it's just like made up Like it's weird I don't know, it just seems too coincidental for me So then what was really weird was like the fleeing, like them fleeing to Hawaii Get married without JJ and Tyler 13 days after the memorial of Chad's first wife Tammy Which definitely gave off like Chris Watts vibes 1000%

666 photos, which that number you guys can look it up Not gonna get like too deep into that But that's the photos of Chad and Lori getting married That number is a biblical number Colby said that like when she gets arrested and she goes into the courtroom That it was like her actions were just like very, very strange And like her makeup was really strange And when I was watching that, if that's like actually like the footage and stuff of what was going on

She looked deranged She definitely looked deranged She won, I don't even want to say 100% one more time, but she did look deranged So her bail was at $1 million At this point they get access to her iCloud account and a picture of JJ and Tyler And Alex at Yellowstone National Park on September the 8th And that was the last known photo of Tyler So that's where they got that date from

By June 9th of 2020 They head to the Daybell residence to serve a search warrant At that point Chad was arrested because human remains were found on the property Backing up a little bit, September 22nd of 2019 Lori said that JJ had been being a zombie And because of his autism, it was said that he would say things like on repeat And Lori had asked Alex to come and get him David remembers seeing him with Alex in his head like peacefully on his shoulder

But that was the last time that he was seen and the photo was found on Lori's iCloud the day that he was killed So, yeah It's all so bizarre to me and I just want to know like in terms of the human remains that were on the property Is there a way because I am familiar with other cases who have also burned Jeffrey Dahmer is an example of one Can you burn them to the point where you can no longer identify them or is that not a thing? I don't know Not even identify them as human remains

Because clearly these people don't know what the fuck they're doing Basically what you're saying is they aren't professional murderers No, they do a terrible job I don't know the answer to that Actually, I'm gonna look that up because that would be very interesting to know What was crazy was that they were basically killed within a month of moving to Idaho and were in Chad's backyard like that whole time Or could they have been That's true

Could they have been killed before the move and then move I don't know because it really didn't go into detail about like the hypotheticals of you know like other things that could have happened So Chad then pleads not guilty, pushes the case forward to trial Grand jury issued indictment on Lori and Chad and Lori was in a medical facility after being deemed incompetent after not understanding the charges that she was facing To me, I'm like, okay, how fucked up is the system because literally if she would have been deemed not competent when she had the first evaluation Charles probably wouldn't have ended up dead And now she's able to go to a medical facility because she's now deemed incompetent because she doesn't understand the charges that she was facing But do we think that she understands the actions that she was doing when she was doing them?

Because I believe that she was but I believe that she was doing those actions under brainwashing I don't know this one's hard for me because I feel like I don't know she seemed competent There's no way that someone to raise these children for years and years and years Yeah, but think about this like think about how long Susie had you and My mom's smart though like she's she's an addict but she's not incompetent I don't think she was either though No, I'm saying I don't think that Lori was incompetent. I think she was fully competent I think that she was literally like brainwashed but she was brainwashed and like knowingly doing what she was doing when she was doing it

Because she thought that that was like the right thing to do She was working off of this scientific system that Chad Daybell set up that like wasn't a scientific system Like I think she believed I think that she fully believed all of that stuff I think she fully believed it too, but I don't understand how So the causes of death for Tylee and JJ and Tammy were not released to the public and still not released Lori was found competent to stand trial April 11th of 2022 and Chad and Lori are scheduled to have a joint trial in 2023 in Ada County, Idaho And prosecutors are pursuing the death penalty in both cases and I think that's fair The crazy part of that is the lack of remorse and understanding of reality when she gets convicted and she's having conversations with Colby on the phone

She still just does not she's it's like she has no idea the magnitude of what she did Yeah, because I think I again I will say I think she knows what she did But I think that she fully is so brainwashed that she thinks that what she did was like appropriate Yes, yes, I just have such a problem with that I will be if this is televised or like obviously they'll be updating us on everything that's going on via the news then I will be following this and keep everybody called up in the new year Also same because I would like to know what the cause of death was if they end up releasing it Same if you guys have not followed us on at coffee convo's podcast make sure you follow us over there

If you have not subscribed to the show you can do that from any podcast app You can also find us on podcast one we hope that you guys all have a great week and we'll talk to you soon See ya