Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - True Crime: The Watcher

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

EP253: On this month's true crime bonus episode, we cover the Netflix series The Watcher. The series follows the Brannock family as they move into their new home and suddenly start receiving omnious letters from someone calling themselves "The Watcher" Thank you to our sponsors! Everlywell: Visit everlywell.com/convos for 20% off an at-home lab test Ipsy: Up your makeup game the affordable way and go to Ipsy.com/coffeeconvos

I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say, thank you? This is Coffee Convos with Kale Lowry and Lindsey Chrisley. I really want you to be in your feels, Kale. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship,

family, and life in the public eye. I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kale and Lindsey. All right, Coffee Convos listeners. This is our November bonus true crime episode. Good morning and welcome to true crime. I cannot wait to talk to you about all this, fuck shit.

This one is, today we're covering the Watcher on Netflix, which is based on a true story. And I did not think that Lindsey was gonna like it. So if you guys listened a few episodes back to our regular episodes, she asked me about it. And I was like, I just don't think you're gonna like it. But I think I guess I was wrong. No, I really got invested in it.

I had a weekend that Jackson and I were just like at home. And I regularly like just don't watch TV or unless it's like a recommendation that somebody's recommended, I don't invest my time doing it anymore. And so I started watching it on a Friday afternoon and literally went through the first couple of episodes, just like sat there and binge like three or four episodes

and then finished it that Monday. So I watched it pretty quickly. And I think that I was so invested because I always was so invested in the game Clue as a kid. And I always like wanted to figure out who was in the room, what weapon they use and like all the things. And so this felt very Clue-esque to me.

And like you were just trying to figure out what was going on every episode, every scene. That's part of the reason why I don't know how I feel about it. And I think the ending really just threw me off. I was so confused by the ending. So let's dive into this. I do have a couple articles pulled up for differences.

And we can also link them on the Instagram. But this, if you haven't seen this yet or if you have and you need a refresher, this is a limited series on Netflix by the creator Ryan Murphy. It's based on a true story. And it did just get renewed for a second season, but I'm so confused on how there would be a second season

without making it into, you know, basically just for fun at that point. Like it's no longer like a true story. It also only took me a little bit over a long weekend to watch it. I didn't have my kids that weekend. So I just pushed right through. Okay.

So this starts with the Brennick family who is driving through like a beautiful, seemingly affluent neighborhood and they have gorgeous houses, tennis courts, giving very much like country club vibes, like pristine. When I think of like the area, I think of where the Menendez brothers grew up and in New Jersey, like very wealthy.

I also got those vibes. This is going to be like a higher class area. Everyone has money. It's very country club-esque, probably clicky, like wisteria lane vibes to me. Yes. So the couple goes to an open house for this home that's for sale.

And immediately there's like a man upstairs in the window looking out from inside. And it just is so creepy. And I do wonder if that actual part of it happened in real life. Because immediately it sets the tone for how creepy this is about to get. So there's a strange mother and son duo inside the house

and this is while the family is kind of touring the house. Jasper, and is it his mom actually, or is it his sister? The lady that was with him? Yes. I don't know if it was his mom or his sister, but I can tell you right now that I have a lot of feelings about Jasper and I have a lot of feelings about the house.

I have a lot of feelings about the new owner and him handling the situation the way he handled it, even though it was like such a weird thing. Like anyone ever just like lets himself into someone else's house and it's just there and it's like a normal thing that would be so weird. But to me, it's like historically, this is something that he did for such a long period of time

that I think that maybe being violent with him in the way that he did was just like not okay. Right. So I think it's his sister, I don't know, but she's the president of the local preservation society and they're obsessed, Jasper rather, is obsessed with the dumb waiter in the home, which I don't think I've ever seen a home

with a dumb waiter in it, which is kind of interesting. So it was cool to kind of see like, that was really important to them, I guess. Now, I immediately hate Karen, which is the real estate agent who's showing the house to Nora and her husband. And Nora and Karen evidently know each other from before visiting this house.

And I immediately don't like her for the same reason that Lindsay texted me that she doesn't like her, which is her role as Samantha Montgomery's stepmother in a Cinderella story. I immediately am like, no, this is not it. And she just gives like a really weird, I don't know, it's like a weird vibe. And there's creepy neighbors sitting on the lawn chairs

with like binoculars watching the open house literally across the street. I don't know if I would ever buy a house if I saw neighbors with binoculars. Like immediately I'd be like, no. If I was cruising through a neighborhood and I saw that, I immediately would call the real estate agent and be like, for these reasons alone,

I don't care like how great the house is. The fact that I'm gonna like knowingly sign up to deal with neighbors like this, no. No, immediately no. So as the story unfolds, Dean says he wants to make an offer right then and there. And Karen, which is the real estate agent, says that there are two other offers on the table

and they need to, you know, offer asking. They need to go into the offer asking for, or basically offering like a lot of money, dig deep. And Dean meets with the lender who says that given the bankruptcy they had gone through years prior and their income, they don't really qualify for this size of a loan. And Dean says that he wants to cash in everything

that they have for the down payment, their stocks, their IRA, savings, et cetera, and he will do whatever it takes to get the home. That's like highly concerning because, you know, there's no retirement, he's not talking to his wife about this. I don't know if that's like part of the actual story, like the true story because I know in real life

the husband had, he worked for an insurance company. So I don't know if that's like, you know, just part of the Netflix series or if it's real. But at the end of six weeks, they actually move in. So we noticed that Dean takes taxis to and from work because they only have one vehicle. So the daughter, Ellie hears music playing randomly in the house and Dean gets weird

and he sees Ellie wearing lipstick. And it just, it feels very weird for him. Things are kind of changing. I did think it was interesting that they only had one car. Yeah, what was the deal with that? But, you know, I don't know because I think maybe the area that they were moving from,

like, what was the area that they were moving from? Manhattan, I think they were in New York City. Yeah, I think that's pretty common. I mean, y'all can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's pretty common for families who live in the cities. To not even have a car at all. To either not have a car or to have one car

because it is so expensive to one, have the car, or two, if you don't have a garage for you to be able to store it. Right, that's true. And if you need to park it, it's super, super expensive. So I didn't think too much into it because I was under the impression that they had moved from, like, a city

and that would just be, like, a normal thing that a family would just have one car. Yeah, that's true. And I think at some point, one of them says, like, can we get another vehicle or whatever. So we keep watching and Jasper, which, again, is the neighbor. He does display some signs of either mental illness or potentially mentally challenged.

And he appears in the house with the newspaper and scares the shit out of Dean. And it's at this point where the family receives, they start receiving creepy letters from an unknown person. And the writer knows that they have two children and says that this won't be the last message and they call themselves the watcher. So Dean and Nora go to the police with it

and they get told that there's not much that can be done and it's probably just a prank. And Detective Chamberlain also mentions how the family had to dig deep to afford the house, which was weird because it was the exact same verbiage that Karen, the real estate agent used. Next, Dean comes outside to see the neighbors, Mo and Mitch, in his garden.

So Mo and Mitch are the same neighbors that were in the lawn chairs with the binoculars. And they ask him to have his daughter stop playing the piano because they can hear it and it's like a disruption to them, which is also strange because Dean says that they can't get her to play piano at all. And Dean gets annoyed with Mo for being on his property, which upsets Mo and Mitch.

And they say they'll be watching him. Now, again, if I had neighbors that are in my garden, harvesting anything or on my property just like randomly, that is weird. That's not a relationship that we ever established. I don't know you. You don't know me. If it was something where we lived across the street

from each other for years and years, and that was something that we agreed with or didn't mind. But these are very new people to the house. So it's just so weird. I think that what was so weird to me was that there were all of these like historically, or like historical things that had happened over time with the man like going into the house and like the garden

thing. And it was just so weird to me that a group of collective people in this community would know that they were new owners and then have the same expectations with this house and with this property as if the old owner still lived there. Right. Like I could never imagine that.

If I, that's what I'm thinking. Like I'm thinking of Elijah's house like in the driveway that I share with him. I can't imagine like his neighbors across the street just like doing things. It's not like it's like taking care of like the lawn mowing or something that's like practical and actually really helpful.

It's just like weird in the garden, watching, having but not like it's weird things. Part of me was like, OK, maybe this is like not actually how this stuff went down. And this is just like some sinister aspects that they're adding to it to make it like crazier than what it actually was. But I do think the real story was this crazy.

Lindsay, this year I am trying to prioritize what matters most. And the best thing I can do is share the gift of health from every well. I'm having everybody that I love choose from at-home lab tests like food sensitivity, women's health, or men's health, or vitamins, and supplements because love and health are all you need. And I can't wait to gift it to everyone this year.

I think that this is an absolutely phenomenal gift idea. And I'm probably going to copy you, to be honest. I have enjoyed so much taking these tests at home. And I've pretty much taken probably, I've probably taken 10 of these at-home lab tests. And for those of you who have never used Everly Well, Everly Well is digital health care that's designed for you with personalized results

and accessible tools for long term health. So they have over 30 at-home lab tests and high quality vitamins and supplements, which is something that I ordered for them probably eight, nine, or so weeks ago. And I think it's great because you'll be able to find the perfect test for you or for your loved one. As Kristin said, women's health tests, food sensitivity,

they have a celiac disease screening test. And that's just a few of the options. And it's super easy. They're going to ship products straight to you or your loved one with everything you need in one package. If you order an at-home lab test, the sample can be collected at home and then shipped back to a certified lab

in the prepaid envelope included with the test. And then digital physician reviewed results are sent straight to your preferred device in just days. And if you order vitamins and supplements, you can start adding them to your daily routine right away. It's so simple. Over 1 million people have trusted Everly Well to support their health and wellness goals.

And now you can help your loved ones do the same. The gift of help has never been so easy to share than it is this holiday. For listeners of the show, Everly Well is offering a discount of 20% off an at-home lab test at everlywell.com slash combos. That's everlywell.com slash combos for 20% off your next at-home lab test, everlywell.com slash combos.

So Nora ends up meeting Karen for lunch. And tells her a little bit about her previous financial trouble, which, like I said earlier, was the bankruptcy that they had gone through years prior. And she also shares that she received the letter and asked Karen to find out who the bidders were on the house because she thinks that maybe it could be the people that they outbid for the home, which I guess

that would be a good guess. The son of the couple is Carter. And he's playing with a ferret, which I thought was funny because it just reminded me of my own kids that would be like, oh, if we get good grades, can you get us a chameleon? If we get good grades, can we get a bird, like shit like that? And I guess the parents had promised him

a creature, which was the ferret, for moving, because they're moving away from their friends and out of their comfort zone. And so Carter's playing with the ferret and the dumbwaiter. And Jasper pops out and it pops out of it. And it scares him, which I think I would end up in an institution if that happened to me. No, I'm not kidding because I don't think I could ever

come back from that tight. I don't know you. And then you just pop out of the dumbwaiter in my new home where I live. I think I would be fucked up for life. No. Let me tell you, as much as I think that this is not normal, I also felt bad for that little man.

Me too. Me too, because that's why I was thinking there's definitely something. I'm not sure, like I said, if it's mental illness or not. But this is what he's used to. But the people who are moving in, they weren't even told about it. So it wasn't even like it was forewarned to them.

You know? So Dean comes up and flips out friends to fuck Jasper up. If he comes back into their house again and Jasper's, I wish I knew it was if it was his mom or his sister. She has two braided pigtails. She was very unhappy and says, all the previous owners, let Jasper do this for the last 60 years. Which again, you can't expect every single couple or person

that owns this house to allow this. Dean says he's going to rip the dumbwaiter out and the trees, which is really upset because Pearl, her name's Pearl, says that she has her eye on the couple and the property. Do you think that these people like, because part of me was like, OK, are they just like sinister and just like all freaking weird and all just like psychotic and controlling? Or is there an aspect of we don't want you

to make these changes because this house and property have been here for so long and it's never been changed and there's no reason to change it mentality? I don't know because I can't honestly say that I would ever have that type of attachment to a house that I've never lived in. I've definitely seen houses and there's houses here that I pass regularly that I'm like,

wow, that's beautiful from the outside. But I've never had an attachment to them in a way where I would watch them or be obsessed with the renovations or even look them up on a real estate website to see the inside and keep up with renovations. I just feel like that would be really weird. So I definitely think there's some kind of sinister thing going on with all the neighbors.

I don't have attachments really to homes or anything like that. So I could never imagine having an attachment as a neighbor or part of a community to a home that didn't belong to me. I wouldn't care if someone was going in there and ripping stuff out and changing it. That wouldn't make any difference. It's not like it was a childhood home. I think the only house that I was slightly concerned about

at one point was when my grandparents passed away and we went and cleaned out their house, my uncle sold it. And that was his prerogative. That's what my grandparents wanted, I guess. And I think about it from time to time. I wonder what it looks like now, but not in a way that it's like I'm going to go stalk them. That's weird.

Correct. OK, so moving on to Dakota. The couple wants to install security cameras in their home because of these letters. And I just want to make a quick note. As I was watching this part, well, let me explain the Dakota and the security system, and then I'll tell my thought.

So Dakota is the owner of a security system company, and he comes out to install the system. He is newer. He's very young. I think he's 19. He owns his own company. And he ends up giving Nora and Teen a quote for the system that is pretty inexpensive for a security system.

And they immediately hire him because, obviously, they don't have a whole lot of funds left. And Dakota then meets Ellie, their daughter, out by the pool. And Dean kind of sees them through the window. And he's immediately like, that's weird, but he doesn't really say anything at first. I did think it was very strange that they did not place a camera at their mailbox.

I also thought that that was strange. Actually, I have a lot of thoughts about the security system, Dakota, that whole situation. The only thing that I could think of as to why there wasn't a camera on the mailbox was because maybe if someone saw it, it would deter them from putting a letter in there. OK.

So with the other cameras, maybe potentially they could catch it without it being obvious on the mailbox. That's the only thought that I had of that. I mean, I have cameras outside my home, and they're pretty discreet. Even sometimes when I'm pulling out of my driveway, I look for them. Because I feel like they were very well placed

and very well not hidden, but they're pretty discreet. So I feel like, but then again, we're talking about years ago, so that's a good point. Yeah, it would deter them. So maybe it would show up on another camera versus the mailbox one. And then here's another thought, too. I don't know much about wiring or electrical or anything

like that, but would there have been a wiring issue for them to be able to get a camera to be able to work on the mailbox? I think they probably just didn't even think about it. No, I feel like they would have frickin' thought about it. Knowing that these letters were showing up in the frickin' mailbox, I think the most logical thing is we're not going to put a camera on there,

because if they see the camera on there, then they'll like switch up their moves. But I guess either way, it's a win-win. Whether there's a camera there and they catch you, is it? Who it is? Or there's no camera. There's a camera there and they don't put letters in the mailbox anymore.

This is true. OK, so I mean, it's just a thought. I don't know. So in the middle of the night, someone comes, I'm assuming, into the home. It's never really shown and essentially kills Carter's ferret, which is absolutely disturbing, because that's just, and it was not just

like a found in the middle of the hallway kind of thing. It was crushed. So trigger warning, the ferret does get crushed. And they call the police. And again, they're told there's nothing they can do. There's no proof. There's nobody on camera. There's no nothing.

So later on, Nora ends up becoming a member of the country club, despite finances being super tight. And I think even Karen was like, how are you a member here? But Karen's just weird anyway. This is when a second letter shows up, giving more details about the kids in the house. So whoever is watching the home now knows the kids by name

and is watching it thoroughly enough to recognize faces, people, names, et cetera. The letter states, the windows allow them to track the family as they move about their house, among other things, which is so creepy. And I don't know if that was meant to just, if it's true, or if they meant to just scare them. So they go to the police again.

And they're told, again, that not much can be done. But Detective Chamberlain suggests that they list their house for sale. And basically call the person's bluff. And then he also suggests maybe getting a private security or hiring a PI and gives names of PIs to Nora and Dean. I don't know about anyone else that's listening to this podcast, but I have hired PIs in the past,

like two or three of them. It's a waste of money, and they never do their job correctly. So but in this instance, the PI actually does a great job. So Dean meets with a PI named Theodora, who seems desperate to take his case, even though she cuts her rate in half. She says that she has cancer, and she needs to provide for her daughter, who's a single mom,

as long as she can before she passes. And at this point, Nora and Dean are kind of fighting. They're going back and forth about whether to actually list the house for sale and call the person's bluff, or to not and basically say, we're not scared of you. That would be such a hard position to be in, because I could see both sides of those, like wanting answers so bad that you're

willing to put the house for sale, but then at the same time, if you're putting the house for sale, that's letting the watcher know that there's a level of fear that's been instilled there. So then they're being submissive in that way and surrendering. So I see both sides of that. I will say, as a mom with a child,

I don't care if that person knew that I was scared or not. I would hope that they would immediately know that I was terrified. And also, I don't care if they knew that I was so scared that I was going to put the house up for sale. I would absolutely leave that house. No questions asked.

Don't care. It's funny, because as I'm watching it, like in real time, I was just thinking, what would this do to their credit if they sold the house immediately? I wasn't even thinking about, I don't know, because I worked so hard for my credit, and I've never been bankrupt, knock on wood.

But they've already gone through bankruptcy, and now they've sold everything and all their investments, their IRAs, et cetera, to have this home. If they were to actually sell it, what would that do to their credit? So I was very concerned for them. Well, I got my first ipsy bag last week. It's a- It's your first one?

Yes. It was my first one. And I have to tell you how impressed I am. The little makeup bag that everything comes in is so cute. It's perfect for the car, on the go. You want to throw it in a diaper bag, whatever, and you want to put your essentials. I have a really bad habit of taking makeup from my bathroom

and taking it on the go with me and then not replacing it. So I just created a little car bag. And they had a Tatcha cleanser inside of it that I had never tried before. OK, well, I got my bag too, but I've been ordering this for a while, so I didn't know that you weren't doing it. But I got an eyeshadow palette from Smashbox.

It was like a beautiful blush in there from NARS and a mascara from Tarte. And I honestly would have probably never found these products on my own. And I just thank ipsy so much for introducing me to so many different brands and different products. Yeah, I'm absolutely thrilled with what I got. It's an over $50 value, but you only pay $13 a month for ipsy.

And you get five new products every month. You just have to go to ipsy.com slash coffee combos and take their short free beauty quiz ipsy.com slash coffee combos. And they'll send you five products that are picked just for you from five different brands. You guys can up your beauty game the affordable way and go to ipsy.com slash coffee combos to join.

That's ipsy.com slash coffee combos. ipsy the best kept secret and beauty. Hey, Friday Night Lights fans. It's not only football Friday Night Lights and Beyond is an episode by episode discussion of the hit TV series Friday Night Lights. Hosted by yours truly Scott Porter who played Jason Street on the show.

And my two wonderful co-hosts. Me, Zach Goldford aka Matt Saracen. And me, Mae Whitman aka someone who wasn't on the show but really, really loves it a lot. We will also bring on some special guests, answer your questions and tell you about what's going on in our lives today. It's not only football, Friday Night Lights and Beyond

coming soon wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Clear eyes, full hearts, can't move. So Nora ultimately says that maybe they should list the house but Dean disagrees and she decides that her and her kids are gonna go stay in a motel for a few weeks while construction is getting done. And Dean can stay at the house by himself

and kind of figure it out. So he wants to catch whoever's doing this and he at one point goes to bed and someone rings the doorbell. He immediately goes outside and hears on the way out. He hears the music playing inside the house which is super creepy. And at the motel at the same time, the phone rings

and there's just heavy breathing and no, it wasn't me on the other end. And she has the receptionist call the number back and it actually rings to the Brannick's house. So someone was inside the house or my other thought was maybe Dean was delusional and it was him. That's what I thought when I was watching it

but I don't know how I feel now. I don't know. I didn't really have that thought. You didn't? Uh-uh. I thought because he was just being so weird about the things his daughter was wearing, her lipstick, like kind of keeping his eye on her and Dakota.

I kind of felt like he was losing himself a little bit. And so I thought maybe it was like a, there was a movie I watched years ago and I wanna say it was by Stephen King. Maybe it was called like hide and seek or something like that. Don't quote me on the name or who it was by but it was essentially like that

and it ended up being that person. Like it was delusional. To me, it would have been too obvious. True, that's true. You know? Yeah. So I was like, there's no way that it's actually him. And I think that the part about him being so overbearing

about his daughter, I think maybe that's just like the type of man that he was. Like as she was growing up, you know, feeling like maybe like a loss of some control and just like wanting to maintain that control and not to have like any issues with having a teenager. I think a lot of parents maybe like struggle with like what's too much and what's not enough.

But then I think with the situation that's going on with the watcher, I think he literally just like essentially started losing it a little bit and it could have potentially been, he is being so overbearing in that way because he couldn't control anything else. That's the way I took it.

Okay, that does make, that actually makes a really good, you make a really good point there. So I guess they go forward with the listing it or they list it and don't put it on like a website. I can't really remember. Karen says that she has an offer but it's a really low ball offer. Now this is confusing because in the beginning

she said that there were two offers when Nora and Dean were trying to sell by the house and they needed to bid over asking price but she said that the bid was under an LLC. So Karen tries to convince Nora to sell the house and take $500,000 off due to the letters but Nora's not having it. She absolutely is not having it

and I don't blame her because again, credit and working really hard and no, absolutely not. It's like not only are like have you invested everything that you essentially don't even have to like have this home but now you're gonna do a price cut so you're gonna lose money already like not in the greatest financial position

and you're terrified at this point. So yeah, I'm not doing that either. Agreed. I mean at this point it's just to lose, lose all the way around. Dean meets up with the Adora which is the private investigator that the detective gave and says that he needs to support Nora

with her wanting to move but the Adora convinces him that he still needs to know what's going on. So Nora decides that she doesn't wanna give up yet and they decide to hold off on selling. Dakota, if you remember, is the security owner, the security camera owner. He offers to sit outside the motel all night long

to keep an eye out for any trouble and he gives them a good price so Nora and Dean hire him to do that and basically keep an eye on the motel while Dean's at the house and I don't know why he wasn't hired to sit outside the home versus the motel. I mean, I think because the kids

and I think it was more of like a protection thing less than like a, right? Like just wanna be protected, like to have that peace of mind to be able to sleep and know that like someone's watching and... But nobody's worried about the motel, they're all worried about the house. Yeah, I know, but I think at that point,

like when you're in that situation, I'm just saying like if it was me and I was staying at the hotel, quite frankly, I know that like we wanna catch the watcher, right? But am I gonna hire someone to sit outside of the hotel where I'm at knowing that I am literally scared shitless?

I'm not sleeping. I essentially have been driven crazy at this point. I'm having just the wildest, most outlandish thoughts knowing that someone has been hired to sit outside and like watch while I am sleeping at night. To me, I would find security in that, even if they weren't finding the watcher. Okay, I mean, that's fair.

So Dean finds out, I think through Fiodora who previously owned the home. And his name was Andrew. He's a former talent agent. He lived in the house before them and he tells Dean if he cares about his family, he needs to leave the house. He says that Mitch and Moe came into their lives.

Andrew's wife would wake up in the middle of the night and say that she was hearing music. She started seeing things. And this couple, Andrew and his wife, they would have their son stay with Mitch and Moe while he worked. So that was like their childcare. And the son told Andrew that there was old people

standing in a circle in long red robes, chanting in the middle of the circle where there was a baby on an altar and they had slid its throat and they were drinking its blood in Mitch and Moe's living room. So now this is the little boy telling the dad that, which I don't know how many little kids would come up

with an elaborate story like that. And a few days later, Andrew sees an article about a missing three-month-old baby. So then he got a letter like he had been getting letters like Dean is describing. And he accused Mitch and Moe of sending them. So more and more letters came and they were getting more violent.

And Andrew said that he started taking pills basically to cope with this. He said that he came home one day and his wife is out of her mind. She told him that their son had cut himself one day and Moe appeared out of a secret tunnel suddenly. So Andrew looked and couldn't find a tunnel. They left the house that night

and his wife never fully recovered from this. I actually think that she ended up committing suicide, I believe. So bad. But he did also mention that Jasper was a good guy and that Mitch and Moe were the ones that were responsible for this. So Dean asks Andrew who he sold the house to

and he said it was some sort of LLC. Moving on, the couple across the street, Mitch and Moe, are very upset that the family is renovating the kitchen. I think the house had like some sort of marble countertops but Dean wanted to have a butcher block because he likes to cook. And this is when Dean starts to keep secrets from his wife, including the fact that he was being passed over

for partner at his job. And this is kind of what he was banking on in order to continue affording the house. And so he's very upset because he needed the money but he does not end up telling Nora. From here, the family goes outside and he's like paramedics, police, and everything at Mitch and Moe's house

and they see bodies with sheets on them come out of the house. They have a son, Mitch and Moe do, and comes over and yells at Dean and accuses him of threatening his parents and say that his dad shot his mom and then killed himself. He said that Moe had cancer and he didn't want to live without her

and says that all that they wanted was some family quiet time but Dean and Nora ruined it with their construction and all of these things. And he had a note in his hand that says, Dean threatened him for them. So weeks have gone by and Nora and the kids are still in the motel and Dean is still in the house by himself

and at one point in the night, the alarm just starts going off while Dean is there and he runs around the house trying to find what could have possibly set the alarm off but nothing is there but he does see Jasper standing outside. What the fuck, I would have shit myself. First of all, I also would have majorly shit myself.

No, literally I would have. Because I don't do well with like, like this type of stuff like freaks me out more than like gory, like, I don't know why. Yeah, because I feel like this is like more realistic and more like needs to happen, so it's scarier. And it's not like a like one time thing, like this is like a...

Recurring. Yeah, like an overtime type thing with just like very weird activity just like gives you the heebie-jeebies, like you feel like you have to like watch your back. They're just like, it's like playing chess, like you make a move and then they like sneakily make a move,

like I don't like this kind of stuff. Yeah, I agree. This is definitely scarier to me than like the gory stuff. So later on Theodora says that Andrew is a pathological liar. I don't know how the two know each other and that he shouldn't believe anything that Andrew says.

She says that she does not believe Mitch and Mo have anything to do with this and that they're basically barking up the wrong tree. And Dean points out how odd it is that she said that because those are the exact same words that the detective had used. So at this point, everything feels like all of these people are connected somehow, some way,

which Karen knows the detective used the words dig deep and now Theodora is using the same words that the detective is using. And she starts pivoting the conversation towards Jasper and they come to the conclusion that something had to have happened to him. I don't know that I believe that because I feel like he's harmless

but also needs, someone needs to set boundaries specifically Pearl because she seems to be his caretaker, just needs to set boundaries for him and keep a better eye on him. Okay, so Karen and Nora- Wait, can we go back to the set boundaries and like keep a better eye on him? I do agree with that, but also I don't know

like why I feel so bad and feel like if this is something that's been going on for what did you say, like 60 years? Yeah, 60 years. And let's say that he is dealing with some type of like mental health issues or you know, various other things that it could be. I feel like it's node what I want him to be in my home and like doing the things that he was doing.

No, absolutely not. But like I do have such a little soft spot in my heart for him that I'm just like, okay, well like maybe like he just like really does not know any better. And this is something that he's done for such a long period of time. Like I wonder like what type of trauma that's going to do to him now that he's being cut off

and like all this craziness is going on because like in his mind maybe what he was doing wasn't wrong. Well, that's pearls, Pearl should have, you know stopped the behavior a long, long, long time ago. Yes. You know, if it wasn't her home or if she didn't have ownership of it

in any way she performed then I don't think that she should have allowed it to continue this far because even though neighbors have been, you know allowing it to happen it's still just not something that you should allow. So Karen and Nora go to the country club and Nora starts talking about Dean's behavior towards Ellie kind of what I mentioned before about, you know

he's making a big deal about lipstick and just being a little bit harder on her than normal. And Karen suggests that maybe Dean is having an affair and she asked Nora, have they gotten any more letters? And Nora was like, you know what? I think this is just a prank. I don't even know if she acknowledges the affair thing but she does Karen says no way they should, you know

basically finish the construction and get the fuck out and says that everyone will find out about the letters and the house won't be worth anything. And so basically cut your losses and get the hell out. So Karen takes her to see another house and is really just like pressuring her to buy it. But if you buy a house that you have sold everything for and then you turn around like months later

and like sell it and try to get a new house. I don't know because I've never done it but that probably wouldn't have gone well anyway because they wouldn't have had anything to be able to move. Correct. And I just have a really bad feeling about excuse me Karen at this point because why are you pressuring? So I know that she makes commission off selling the house

so if she sold it to them once and then she's listing it for sale she's gonna sell it again. I guess she would make that commission again. Like do we think that's the motive? Well, I'll tell you the whole time like literally the whole time I thought it was like various different people.

The watcher was various different people throughout the episodes but consistently I thought it was the real estate agent. Yes, that was definitely a recurring thought for me as well. And I thought that she was just like a bit uppity with like the country club like vibes. I thought she was very motivated to like want to sell, want them to like drop the price.

Like her involvement to me seemed more than just a real estate agents involvement would be. And so for those reasons alone, I was like, okay I think it's her. I definitely thought she was in co-hoops with whoever may have been doing this and kind of making her money's worth of it because every time the house buys and sells

if she's the listing agent or the selling agent she's gonna make the money regardless. So I definitely thought that she was involved somehow some way. Now at this point, there is a scene where Dean is in the home and he goes into the kitchen to find and I put it quotes like a building inspector in his fridge making himself a sandwich. And he kind of freaks out a little bit

which I would as well because yeah, I want to be nice to people who work on my house and doing inspections and things. But like when you offer and you say help yourself make yourself at home, like I think it's just like you're not really telling someone to actually make themselves at home and make a sandwich. Yeah, it's more like meant to be nice

but to turn around and then like make yourself a sandwich. Like that is so weird if I came in here and like my builder or I'm having my pool installed in a couple of weeks and if I really came in my house to make a sandwich or something I would be kind of weirded out. Like I would make someone a sandwich but like to make your own sandwich in my kitchen like that's just weird.

Right, yes, agreed. Like I definitely offered them water brought them water ordered pizzas before for workers, things like that. But I've never like them to make themselves like that. That just takes it a little too far. So he introduces, the guy introduces his name as John as the inspector and he says that Nora said to help himself but she wasn't even home.

So that's weird. And at this point when I was watching I was like is this like a ghost? Like who like is Dean seeing somebody that's not actually there? Like I didn't know if this was, I didn't know what was going on. I was very confused.

So he starts asking strange questions like are they a Christian family? Talk about the fourth turning, saying something is about to happen and asking about Ellie and very personal questions about Ellie and Dakota. So he must have seen Ellie and Dakota together which he says that he did.

And I just feel like that's so personal and very strange and just like get the fuck out. Like who are you? Yeah, that was weird to me too. But wait, can we talk about Dakota for a second? Because he was one of the people that I never got vibes that it was him. Me neither.

I never, never, never got vibes from Dakota at all. And I don't know if that's like the point. Like maybe it's like everybody else is so obvious but Dakota is just not, I don't have any bad vibes from him at all. I literally had no bad vibes about him. He was actually like my favorite person in the entire series.

And I didn't hate the fact that he was like. With Ellie. Yeah, I didn't. I liked it. It didn't bother me at all. I thought it was actually really cute and like. Me too. What better person to be with

than like the security person. But I know that the family is kind of questioning his character and like could he be involved because he does have access to the security cameras. And I don't wanna go too far into this just because I feel like there's a lot more to the series. But I think we can talk about like our points and then we do a part two

to kind of finish the coverage of this. So at the end of this episode, who at this point do you think is the watcher? At the end of this episode, I still think it's a real estate agent. I think I felt like everyone was kind of in cahoots and working together. You want me to tell you like the long drawn out version

of like what I thought it was? Yeah. I thought that the lead person was the real estate agent and that she had manipulated like all of these other people that were involved into like doing other things and that she was just like going around and like manipulating every part of the situation. And she was like the lead person.

Like she was the ringleader. Okay. I guess I could see that. I definitely, I think I could see that. I truly thought that the detective was involved and I highly, highly thought that Pearl was involved. Pearl gives me, she's the one with the braids either. I'm pretty sure it's Jasper's sister or brother

or sister or mom. She just gives me the weirdest fucking vibes and I don't like her at all. At all. No. So I don't know where, I don't know where this is gonna go in season two. I'm very curious to find out

but on part two of this episode, we will finish the watcher and then we will also at some point cover, I guess, season two or we'll maybe mention it on regular episodes. Wait, can I tell you something that my dad said? Yeah, of course. Cause I made him watch it and my sister watch it and my dad actually ended up finishing watching it.

I started it before him but he finished it before me. And so he is like the king of spoiling every show. Like he did it with Virgin River and I told him, I was like, do not text me and like tell me who the watcher is. And he was like, you're literally not even gonna believe it. So I'm trying to like speed up and watch the rest of the watcher

so that I can find out who it is cause I'm trying to like go against the clock. He keeps texting me being like, did you find out yet? Did you find out yet? And I'm like, no, like I can only watch it so fast. And so I get to the end and I text him and I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like-

Cause it's like a cliffhanger. It's literally a cliffhanger. And he then calls me and he's laughing and he goes, that's literally the most annoying ending ever. I was so pissed. I was so pissed. I even saw like posts on Facebook and stuff of other people being pissed.

And I was just like, where is, where are the answers? We don't have them. That's why we're sitting here talking about this. But he said, I'm so pissed off that like I invested that much time into this to get to the end and like still not have an answer. Although like I'm not mad that I watched it. I'm just like mad that it ended that way.

Right. That's why I thought that you weren't gonna like it cause that's how I felt. That's exactly how I felt. And I was like, I don't even know if Lindsay is gonna like this. Like, I don't think she's gonna be okay with this. Well, then he goes, since you're gonna talk

about this on your true crime on coffee combos, you need to tell everyone that I said that the actual true crime was when they put the real estate agent and the pink coat with the belt around it. That was Cinderella story vibes. She was typecasted because that was a definite Cinderella story vibes right there.

Totally. I was like, oh my God. Like, okay, I'll make sure that I tell everybody about it. Shout out to Todd. We love that. Okay, so we will let us know who you guys think the watcher is.

Let us know your theories. And then next episode, I do wanna do a little bit of a compare and contrast because I have articles pulled up where certain, it's based on a true story, but they do have to change a couple of details. So I do wanna go over those in the next episode. So let us know who you think. And if you've gone to the house,

if you have any information, like send it to us, we would love to read it on the podcast. If you guys have not subscribed to the show, you can do that by searching the purple podcast app, typing coffee combos, click subscribe, click the fifth star and leave us a written review. And if you also listen on Spotify, you can find us on there, podcast one,

and pretty much any other podcast app. I hope that you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya. I'll see you guys next time.