Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Unpacking One Night in Idaho

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

CC428: This week, Lindsie and Kail are back from vacation and are tackling realities of co-parenting and back-to-school shopping. Plus, get ready for another edition of Petty Court with a wild tale of an ex-best friend and some truly bizarre dating habits. Kail and Lindsie discuss the new theories about Bryan Kohberger's motives, incel connections to potential second weapons, they dissect the chilling events and unanswered questions. Lastly, Foul Play is a classic cringe teenage story involving hiding in your boyfriend's mom's closet. Thank you to our sponsors!DraftKings: Download the DraftKings Casino app and sign up with promo code COFFEEHoney Love: Start summer off right with Honeylove. Get 20% OFF by going to honeylove.com/CoffeeRoBody: Find out if you’re covered for free at Ro.Co/COFFEECONVOS. Rx only.Rocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/COFFEECONVOSStride K-12: Go to K12.com/COFFEECONVOS today to find a tuition-free K12-powered school near youWayfair: Visit Wayfair.com or get the Wayfair mobile app.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Ontario. I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is coffee convoes with Kail Lowry and Lindsay Crissly. I really want you to be in your feels, Kail. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye. I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning, kitty cat. Good morning, kitty. How was your vacation? Our vacation was good.

Not enough time on the actual beach because you're just doing activities the whole time. But if you guys are going to Myrtle Beach at all, go check out Myrtle Beach water sports. They were a good time. I have to ask you about vacationing because we have talked over the years just how different that we vacationed. Yeah. And the way that you schedule. all of these activities on a vacation sounds like a job. So the thing about it is that it's just, it feels like I could go sit by the pool outside

at my house every day. So if I go out of town, I want to go be a tourist. I just feel like if you're doing all of that and then you have a schedule like while you're on vacation, to me, the point of vacation is having no schedule. And for you, I was like talking to Chris another day and she was like, oh, Kail's going to do Safari and she's going to do go carts and she's going and like this time and that time, no ma'am. It's for the kids.

It's not for me. If I go on a couple's vacation or a solo vacation, like I'll do a couple things, but I want to chill. I would rather have no schedule-ish. I'm still going to do stuff, but I'm going to go do it on my time. time like a walk-in sort of vibe. But with the kids, I will say this though. My kids on this trip were, they would have been perfectly fine just going to the beach every day and not doing anything else. They really, like, they really, really would have been fine with that. So now that I know that, Lux and Creed are good with just the ocean. I do think it's fair to say at their

ages, they're kind of like in that weird phase of they need to be like over entertained almost or they're getting to the place where you can take them to the beach all day and they stay and it's fine. Oh, yeah, because they love the water. They are, I think, like, water calms, Leo's, because Leoes are fiery and both of them are fiery. Quick update on my whole situation. I had planned out with hobby that I was going to bring Lux and Creed for their birthdays to go see Lincoln. So we're vacationing in Virginia next week. And Chris turned around and requested that same exact week for his vacation.

So not only does he get them for their birthdays, but they do not get to come to Virginia to see Lincoln. So it'll just be me, Elliot, and Lincoln, which is fine, but just bummed out because we could have spent a lot of time just at the ocean. That just sucks. There is nothing worse than birthing children going through situations. where you're no longer together and then your child possibly being with the other parent on their birthday, I can't fucking stand it. Well, there's no birthday clause in our parenting plan. So I do have a birthday clause because people are always so interested in like our parenting

plans and stuff, which I think is so interesting. But then if you look at statistics, it's like 51% of the population that have children are in some type of custody situation. mine does have a parenting or a birthday clause and they are not only for jackson's birthdays but our birthdays my other parenting plans have birthday clauses in them and what is what do those say every other year okay so ours is if the if one parent has the child on their birthday the other parent can exercise the next day from their birthday so the day after their birthday for, I think, four or six hours.

Let me back up because I was sending all kinds of TikToks in the coffee combos group chat and sort of related to custody, but not really. Maybe it is. I don't know. These cops pulled over this woman in Baltimore, which is two hours from me. Okay. So it's, and hopefully I'll follow the bouncing ball here because I was going to relate it to child custody because where the fuck was the father's of.

these children. Right. This mom gets pulled over for speeding. And then they noticed that she's like basically living out of her car or whatever. And for whatever reason, they ask her to start pulling this stuff out of her vehicle. And they said there's just like really pungent like gross smell. And so they have her like going through these trash bags in her vehicle. And come to find out they were the decomposing bodies of her old children. Her two children, seven year old, seven year old and five year old. She's 33 years old. And I say all that just like sort of related to custody, but like not is she had actually

been keeping them decomposing for a year. Nobody looked for those kids. Those kids were not reported missing. I don't know if the father's knew. I don't, we don't know anything. But, um, yeah. They were stuffed into suitcases and hidden in a room for over a year. And then when she was moving, like, living out of her car, she had the suitcases with

their bodies in them. You and I have talked a lot about this with true crime. When somebody goes missing or something's happening and then it's like completely unsolved. And it's like, how did it go unsolved for that long? Like, did no one think to report like only one person knows those kids, right? So like in that situation, it's like, where is other family members? members that would have ever had access to those kids. But I do think that it's true that sometimes people just like completely disassociate themselves from their families. And maybe those dads

weren't involved and they didn't know. Yeah. But they must not have been in school either because nobody from school. I mean, five and seven, that's like kindergarten in first grade or kindergarten and second grade. And so all of this was caught on the cop's body cam footage. Someone commented and said that they weren't even her children. Wait, what? They weren't even her own children. The poor mother was trying to get them back, but she never, but never, she never showed up. That is absolutely insane. Also, were those kids ever registered in like the public school system? Because maybe she, they had never been in school.

But like, I'm not even shitting, like, we went, when we were in South Carolina, we went to this place called Grand Prix. And it's like Jackson would have liked it. So if you ever go to South Carolina for any reason, so we're by the go carts outside. Actually, the entire theme of this vacation was, where are the twins? Okay. That was the people on this vacation. Anyone who recognized us asked me, where are the twins? Or they'd be like, one of the people at Grand Prix when we were going on the go carts, looked at Creed and was like, is this one of the twins? And I was like, the twins are not even two yet. No. So I say all that to say, my twins are not even two years old and people are always asking where are the twins. So it's sad to me and obviously not everyone's on TV, but this girl is like, she has a five and a seven year old. That's five years and seven years and nobody's asking where these kids are? That's crazy to me. I feel like even if I go to the grocery store in my local area and Jackson's not with me

because normally he is always with me, if somebody runs into me, they'll be like, oh, where's Jackson? Yeah. Or like, how is Jackson? Yeah. At the very least. So maybe, what are they call those people like nomads or whatever? Oh, yeah.

Like maybe she lived the life of a nomad. Like she just didn't keep really, I don't know. But it's like the people here in Smyrna that they killed the little girl and they buried her in the softball field. But it was figured out because the stepdad's parents kept asking, where is the little girl? Where is the little girl? Yeah. So sure, like you can only get away with that for so long. But moving on, we don't have to talk about this anymore.

I just wanted to briefly touch on that because I will be curious to know if anyone listening know has more details on this. Were they her kids? Were they not her kids? What the fuck is going on? Let me know. Before we do move on, I think that probably more than what we know, there are a lot of children that are out there that have mothers that had them and dads were never on birth certificates or, you know,

maybe never in the children's lives. I think that that's probably way more common than we know. I mean, I would definitely think my guess would be. that if you don't add the other parent on the birth certificate or don't tell them or whatever the case may be definitely will allow the child to fall through the cracks in more than just a way of like child support or child custody, right? Because if somebody doesn't know about their own kid or they're not told or they're not on the birth certificate, they essentially have no legal rights. And unless someone has money to do the filings, the chances of you're getting

your fees waived are slim to none, which I think is actually sad in some cases. It's so sad. It's so sad. Well, my text for the week was from this morning. Will sends this photo to mine and Jackson's group chat. I thought I would look like with frosted chips in the early. Mm-hmm. Okay.

And he said J.T. loading. This was the picture that Jackson sent us last night. night. Look how long his hair is where he's been growing it out. Because he's getting a perm. End of an era is what he put. Oh, wait. Is he not going to be the perm? Oh, my gosh. Today. This afternoon.

He's getting the perm. He's doing it. Yeah. He has sent David his list of what he wants from Chick-fil-A since it's going to be like a two-hour appointment. And he said he's documenting the whole thing. as he should, because he is a trendsetter. Can you imagine? What it looks like on him. Like, can you just imagine? I can picture Jackson with a person.

Like, he actually fits the description of a kid that I would think would get this look. As a parent, you want to empower your child to succeed now and in the future, and K-12 can help your child reach their full potential and give you the support you need to get them there. K-12 powered schools are accredited tuition-free online public schools. for students in kindergarten through 12th grade, designed with an engaging curriculum that supports individual learning styles. With K-12, learning is personalized and provides the flexibility that your family needs. When school can be anywhere, there's internet access, they can learn at their own pace, in their own place. And K-12-powered schools have state-certified teachers, specifically

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That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. I also went back to school shopping. I don't know if you've done that yet. I went through Lux and Creed's closet and decided they are not getting back-to-school clothes because we found clothes from last year with tags on it. The only thing that we got for them was backpacks and shoes. I need to go shopping for Elliot and Lincoln.

Okay, I just want to say anybody who's listening to this, the several people that ran into us at Dick's Sporting Goods, thinking that Will and I are back together. We're absolutely not. We just take our kid back to stool shopping together. That's so sweet. Yeah. No, it's crazy this weekend.

I started going through Jackson's closet, and I don't know if you're like this at all. I'm to the point that I don't want anything in closets that are not being used. Like, we're not holding on to shit that you haven't worn that I know for a fact that you're not going to wear because your uniform is literally black shorts, black socks, various different like Nike Under Armour Adidas T-shirts and hoodies. Like, I'm not keeping dress clothes because you don't wear them. And we don't go anywhere that require dress clothes. Yep. 1,000 percent. We have one, usually one thing every school year for dress clothes, which is Spanish

immersion night that we're supposed to go to you with them in the Spanish program, which is fine. And that's usually black pants and a white shirt. And I made sure that I kept Lincoln's for Lux this year. And then I kept Lux for Creed this year since he's going to kindergarten. um no i did the same and actually chris's mom texted me and asked me she was like hey like next time you go through the boys closets can you send whatever doesn't fit them to me and i was like yeah actually i can so that's what i did when i was going through their closet but i was just dumbfounded

because it's like kids grow over fucking night and i'm thinking to myself going through all their shit lux has three pairs of pajama pants if that left because nothing fit him and we are a pajama set type of family like we just like our sets yep and so everything went to creed for pajama wise and link uh lux was left with nothing but then they both have like day clothes that have tags on them and everything else and i'm like how does this happen like just random shit that they need more of and then i don't know whatever no it's when i was going through the closet over the weekend i started pulling out stuff that had never been worn like it didn't have tags on it because I'm a big like wash before you wear.

Oh, okay. It depends. Okay, but anytime that I go and put something in a closet, like, let's say I do an Amazon hall of like sets or whatever, immediately when they get here, I take them out of the packaging, take the tags off of them, and put them in the laundry. But hear me out. Hear me out. I'm a big poshmark girly.

So I'm going to put things on poshmark. Mm-hmm. I'm going to get more money if I have new with tags. So I leave it with the tags on until I decide to try it on and actually wear it. And if I try it on and it doesn't fit, that shit's going right on Poshmark with the tags. Okay. I mean, I think that's fair. But back to the kids' clothes with tags on them in the closet, there was literally probably 50 shirts that were in his closet that he did not touch.

you can also sell those on poshmark i actually let's talk about saving some coin for a minute because you know what i did for creed's birthday which is on wednesday so this episode airs creed's birthday will have been yesterday his birthday list was entirely close okay which is fine my happy ass went right at postmark wait creed asked for clothes for his birthday yes he wanted so impressed creed it will surprise you he's mean but he's funny and he's smart like he's definitely going places in life. Not sure where, but he's going places. Um, so he specifically asked for Pikachu pajamas, Pikachu pajamas. Um, and then like jerseys, hoodies, like clothes. Cool. Love that. The second I heard jerseys, I knew it was getting expensive. So I went on Poshmark

and I ordered new with tags jerseys. So he got like a Dolphins jersey, actually, New Dolphins jersey, a falcons hoodie, and then soccer jerseys, like soccer sets. They all were new with tags on Posh Mart. Listen, you're out here just like saving, doing the most. I will tell you, I have purchased jerseys for Jackson, like, off eBay and stuff. I mean, basically brand new jerseys and they're a fraction of the cost. Jackson has a huge jersey collection. I would be so interested to find out how many jerseys that we have collectively, like, with our kids.

Okay. Can I get first dibs when he grows out of those for my children? Yes. Because those hand-me-downs from Jackson's jerseys could literally work for the next three generations of my children. Absolutely. I will take a picture of, like, his jersey collection. They're all basketball jerseys, mostly. That's perfect.

I mean, he has a couple, like, I don't know if. if y'all are baseball fans or not, but he's an Atlanta Braves fan. So he has a couple of different colorways of the Atlanta Braves jerseys with the same players on the back. But it's just like, just do a bundle deal. I'll Venmo you. And I can, those jerseys would last. It would go like probably Lux, then Creed, then Rio.

I mean, we're talking like almost every NBA team. Oh, we need those. So when Jackson doesn't fit in those anymore, please send them my way. I know where, I know where they're going. I want to talk to you about the documentary that I told you to watch on Amazon Prime. Then did. You did do it? Okay.

Well, what were your thoughts? We're talking about one night in Idaho. Yeah. My thoughts were, how stupid could I have been to not realize that this was probably an in-sell situation? And that is the first time I had ever heard of Insel, which is involuntarily celibate. And people like this, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Valentine when you were like younger. It's like, I want to say from like the 80s or the 90s. And it's this kid who was made fun of and bullied like essentially his whole life and didn't really get much attention from women and girls.

And so one rejection will just send them over the edge. No shit. That's what was going on here. Here's my theory. Because I have a completely new theory now. Do you? Yeah. Like, after the intel information came out, because I knew nothing about that until this documentary, the prime documentary.

Oh, also, before I forget, I'm just adding this to circle back to how Brian got to be named a suspect. I saw information on that. So my thoughts are, maybe his intention was to go into the house. and kill one person. I now am starting to believe that he got enraged when he went to the bedroom thinking only one of the girls was going to be there and maybe the intention was to rape her and kill her. And then he got so angry and I think it was Maddie. And he got so angry because Kaylee was there.

I thought the target was Kaylee and Maddie was. there. I know. Like you thought Kaylee was the target and now you think it was Maddie that was a target? Yeah. Why is that? Why do you think that Maddie? It was Maddie's bedroom. But maybe he went into Kaylee's room. No. I don't, I don't think so. Kaylee had already moved out of that house and was living somewhere else. So she was having a sleepover with Maddie. So I think he went to the house, went directly to that room. And I And I believe that he had a motive that we probably will never know because we will never be able to trust him, even if he comes out with, you know, this was my motive.

We don't know if that's actually true, right? But I think he went into that room thinking that she was going to be there alone and Kaylee was there. And I think that explains so much of why Kaylee was disfigured in the way that she was. I think they said that she had like 34, I've seen some reports that said 34 stab wounds and then other reports that said that she had 50 stab wounds like her teeth were knocked out. Her face was completely. Kaylee. Kaylee.

The dad said it, he believes it was over 50, but wasn't Kaylee the one that said she thought she had a stalker? Yes, Kaylee did say that she thought she had a stalker, but do we think? that maybe he was stalking Kaylee and her and Maddie were together so much. Maybe Maddie just didn't realize that she was also being stalked. The whole thing is so fascinating to me and it's frustrating because I don't know. What is his? To Kristen's point, she said that Kaylee said that someone was watching the house. She also was the only one with a dog. So maybe she she would have noticed that more than any of the other people there because she would be taking Murphy out.

Right. That's true. And could have been like, okay, I've seen that car here, whatever. I thought it was really interesting how Brian Koberger became a suspect because I always say, like, even with CCTV and things like that, like why, how do people get caught? Like, how do you get caught? I don't think that you can get away with murder the same way that you used to be able to get away with murder because of CCTV, ring cameras, this, that and the third.

Brian Coburger almost did a good job. He almost did. I don't think so. I mean, to Kaylee's big sister's point, he was a little sloppy and all it took was the knife sheath. If it wasn't for the knife sheath, I think it would have taken a little bit longer to catch him. But the way that the detective said that they caught Brian Coburger was that they, I guess, subpoenaed Google for records on who was searching on Google. this type of crime before it was ever released. And so the only person that would have been able to search something like that looking for it

would have been the person who did it himself. And so I guess that the dates that the detective gave to Google were too broad. And so they turned around and had to refine the search essentially and then narrowed down the time frame. And Brian Koeberger was searching all of these things. And so he didn't. And then then the Papa Rogers Facebook. account was really weird to me.

Okay, but they did say, I believe it was said somewhere in court or after interviews about the Papa Roger account. I think they did say that there was no link to Koberger with that account, which is absolutely insane because remember me telling you last time we recorded that there were things said from that Facebook account into group. trying to solve the crime about the knife sheath way before anybody knew anything about the sheath? Yep. Yeah. I also, as much as it pains me to say this, I know that I have said in the past that I thought that maybe there was another person working with Brian Coburger. I don't think there was at this point

because of all the information that's come out from one night in Idaho and then also this book that we're reading. I don't think that he worked with anyone else. But I do still, like, I I cannot believe he killed that amount of people stabbing them, which is like, you have to, you're not exhausted. Like, you're not so fucking tired after the first one or two. Like, what the fuck? He was superhuman in those moments. I still, it pains me to say that I think he worked alone because at this point, somebody would have told. Somebody would have come forward.

I really think that he went into that house and went to Maddie's bedroom and was surprised that Kaylee was there. And I believe in that moment, he got enraged. And I think the rage is what caused him to carry out in the way that he did. I would just love to know, and I'm sure everyone would love to know, was your intent to go in there and kill the four people that got killed? Or was your intent to go in there and do whatever you were going to do to Maddie and then kill her? like what was the actual target and what was your intent? And I don't think that we will ever know. We'll never know.

We'll also never know if he was casing out the place for months and months and planning this and doing all of the planning. He knew there was two other roommates. Why did you leave those two roommates alive when you already killed everybody else? Join the Fun on Draft King's Casino ranked the number one online casino experience. They've got everything you've been searching for. Thousands of exciting games, huge jackpots, exclusive offers, and more. New players get a 10-day welcome offer, 500 spins on huff and more puff when you play, just five bucks to start.

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That's RO. dot CO slash coffee combos to see if your insurance covers GLP1. for free. Go to road.co slash safety for blackbox warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. Also, why did you go back to the scene of the crime five hours later? Like, I don't understand why did you go back to the scene of the crime five hours later? Because you realize the knife sheath was gone or because you were trying to see like what was what? I think that maybe he did, by that amount of time, he probably did realize that the knife sheath was gone.

But also, I can't remember where I heard it if it was, because I've been following this coverage for like days at this point, but somewhere it was said that the investigation was kind of like very hush, hush. And so there was nothing, the only people that were really aware were law enforcement by the time they got dispatched out. and then the people that were in the home. And so somebody that has issues like co-burgers of the world, I would imagine he probably started growing like this anxiety of, okay, there's been nothing reported. And I went and did this last night. I want to go back and see if anything's going on or if anybody knows yet.

Yeah. Kristen just said they say perpetrators like this usually revisit the crime, the scene of their crime, he truly probably got off on it and then his phone never pinged there ever again. So it was pinging near your house for a while before the crime. But the other, well, he had turned the phone off and then stupidly turned it back on. And so that's how they were able to like trace his route and stuff like that. But I also am curious because he took a selfie the morning of the like after he committed those crimes. And then they were trying to figure out it was the selfie before or after he talked to his parents on the phone around 6 in the morning,

what was he calling his parents about? Were his parents aware that he was unhinged? Were his parents aware that he was socially? Because I think so many times parents are in denial about who their kids are. And I feel bad for them that they raised this type of person because it's truly not their fault. But like also, what was that conversation? Was it a conversation like Brian Laundrie's parents where Brian Laundrie's parents knew what

the fuck was going on? or was he just so unhinged because also Kaylee's big sister talked about Brian Koeberger being tweaked out on heroin. So where did the heroin, when did the heroin addiction come in? Why? How? I think that was all the way back from high school because early reports reported that he had had drug issues from back in high school when he lived in Pennsylvania. also Albrightville where his parents are from we drive through our Albright'sville to go to the lake house every year it's insane I also did not know that he was a twin what to a girl yeah the sister that was in court that's his twin I read somewhere that said that he was that was

his twin sister and people have been doing like deep dives on this on TikTok like all the true crimeers and looking at the eyes and his sister has the exact same eyes as he has and they were like hopefully this is not like a genetic thing and she gets any ideas which I think that's a little bit far fetched yeah but like if you look at them and her pictures from court they look I mean it's like copy paste boy girl I wonder why one sister was there was the was the other one not there I'm wondering if the sister that was there if she was the one that was suspicious or if both of

the sisters were suspicious or if the one that did not show up the one that checked his vehicle when he got to Pennsylvania. Oh, Kristen said... Kristen goes, okay, not a twin. I don't, I saw that all over TikTok and I was like

maybe, but maybe they're saying they look alike. They look alike. That's like Rio and Valley look like twins. Like, yeah. They click on valleys, people. folder in my phone, pictures of Rio show up in her album. That's so crazy. It's so weird because I'm like, they're literally not twins, but they look like twins.

I just am so, like, what about this case? Like, this case will haunt me the same way John Bonnet Ramsey and Lacey Peterson. Like, we know who did it, obviously, or we have like an idea of who did it. And what's crazy is that everything that Kaylee's big sister said is true. Like, he was sloppy. He is painfully average. Like, but I just wonder. And I, this is the empathetic side of kale.

If one girl had been nice to Coburger in high school, college, two girls had been nice to him. Would that have changed the trajectory of his actions, his life, or would he have become obsessed with the one or two girls that were nice to him and he would have killed them anyway? Do you know what I think he was, I think if I had to guess, he was always painfully weird. And I believe that he was so invested in like this in-cell thing and became so obsessed with that other killer that he kind of like followed that it became an obsession. No, but that's what I'm saying. So like if one or two people, a handful of people throughout his life were actually paid real attention to him and like were nice to him, would that have changed his mind? would that have changed the way that he thought?

Like, would that have changed anything? Because the girl that went on the Tinder date with him said that he was asking her about like murders and stuff. And like, we have wild ass conversations here on this podcast. So, I mean, in private, I'll ask, you know, oh, let's see. Call me crazy, but I will literally be dead weight and ask my boyfriend, every single boyfriend I've ever had. Hey, lift me, see if you could lift his dead body.

You know what I mean? Like, I literally would be able to just lay on the ground. So, like, we do weird shit and people have weird conversations. So, like, to me, it didn't sound absolutely crazy that he's like, what do you think is the most painful way to die? You know what I'm saying? But the crazy shit is, is the girl came out that he was communicating with on Tinder and has said, I guess they were talking about, like, scary movies or something.

And he had, and I'm assuming this is through, like, the chat on Tinder. I don't know how that kind of stuff works. but he was talking with her and asked her about scary movies and what would be the worst way to die. And he referenced the K-bar knife to her and she got freaked out and stopped communicating with him. So like, would that have been the victim if they continued communicating? No, that's what I'm saying. Like, would it have made a difference if someone actually like fell in love with him or like was really kind to him or he had like a real friend to confide in? because it doesn't sound like from everything that's come out,

we have not heard from anyone that was Brian Coburger's friend, Brian Coburger's best friend, Brian Coburger's, you know what I mean? Like it's random classmates that went to school with him, but nobody was really his friend. I also think that it's really weird. So from that documentary that we watched, it said that the way that Brian packed his car and left with his dad,

was almost like he had zero intentions to come back to that apartment at his school yeah like at his school when he left with his dad to go home for i guess like holiday break it said that he basically cleared out the apartment as if he had no intentions of ever going back had he graduated no like he was he still had a job and like everything to my knowledge and i just think that something about that is so weird, like, did he start getting cold feet as if he knew he was going to get caught at any point? Like, maybe he was just covering all his bases, like, in case he got caught. Yeah. But wouldn't that be a red flag? I mean, I'm just thinking back to, you know, that age of life. If I called my parents and were like, hey, can you come and, you know, take this trip with me to drive

back home? And one of my parents showed up. And I had all my fucking shit in the car, they would start questioning me then. Like, why are you bringing all this stuff home? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what it would be like to live in an apartment. But maybe he was just saying, like, because you have to think about the timing too. Usually, I'm trying to remember, isn't like Thanksgiving break?

And then do you come back for finals after Thanksgiving break? Or are you done until January? I like, don't remember when I was in college. Or is Christmas? No, I want to say, I want to say we took finals before Thanksgiving break and then, no, we took finals. So you had Thanksgiving break and I think that was like over a week. And then you had your finals and then you were out from like the end of November or the first week of December all the way for January. Yes.

I vaguely remember that like the first week of December coming back for finals. And then. Yeah. And then you're on break until like January. or whatever. So it is possible that he told his parents, like, that's all, like, just coming home for break. I would just love to know, not from him, but from his family, I would love for them to speak and also get inside of the sisters' brains. Both sisters? Yeah. Like, I want to know about the, like, all of them, the parents, the sisters, like the other, like extended relatives. Like,

when you grow up and have your own family and you sort of start separating yourself from like your extended family like cousins aunts uncles yeah like what that looks like because if you look at cases like the menendez brothers you have extended family speaking in um like on the menendez brother's side like looking out for them but i would be curious for brian coberger what that looks like did everyone in the family think he was weird was he always weird was he not weird at home. Like maybe he was comfortable at home and he wasn't coming off as weird. I did read somewhere that before the sentencing, he had received a visit to the jail from his mom and his sister. So there were photos of them like coming out of the jail. So I do know

that. And then also his ex like cellmate from that jail had come out and said that he had the weirdest habits. Like he would be up all hours of the night and basically sleep all day and that he washed his hands for an extended period of time and took over hour long showers. He also washed his hands a lot. That's so fascinating. Fascinating. I don't know. Can we study his brain? I have so many questions. Also, I hope that they, I hope that the family like donates his brain. I just need to know what everybody thinks. I want to know what he, I want to talk to him so bad. Like, I just need, I, just like the rest of America. Like, obviously we don't want to continue giving him a platform, but also things like, like, like we'll just never understand. And it's the unknown that I can't sit

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in bras with honey love i did find it very interesting that they have confirmed or or have said that there had to have been a second weapon based off of the way that cayley's face looked that there had to have been a second something used and they could never find what that was the amount of trauma to her face from what has been described. Maddie or Kaylee? Kaylee's face. It said that like all of her teeth were knocked out and stuff. I do understand that people that are, um, have like an adrenaline rush or rate, like enraged.

I do think that they can have more force in moments like that than a lot of people would think. I've seen Jackson, you know, be mad as a little kid. And when they get enraged, you're like, where the fuck did that come from? So, you know, think about a grown adult, right? I don't believe that he would have had enough strength. I mean, look at him to do what was done to her face without another weapon being used. I still just can't understand how you stab four people that many times. I think they call it overkill. Basically,

it's usually seen in crimes of passion or enraged. Yeah, no, for sure. I never doubted that, but I mean, even still four people. And he did all that to Maddie and Kaylee

after Zana fought for her life. Like, it wasn't an easy just stabbing her to death while she's in her bed. Like, she fought for her life. No, it was before. What do you mean?

I thought Zana was, Zana and Ethan were the first people killed. No. Kaylee and Maddie were the first people. Like, he went directly to Maddie's room. And no. Everything that I've seen was that Zana was killed first. No. So it was Maddie and Kaylee. And then they believe that somewhere he encountered Zana, whether it was they know that there was something in the hallway due to blood and things like that led back to her room, fought for her life in her room. Ethan was also killed in the room. They said, said that he was asleep and they believe that the only reason that Dylan was left alive was because he literally was completely spent he there is it's proven that he sat down in Zana's room they think out of exhaustion because he just killed four people so they think he just genuinely didn't have it in him to kill anybody else but see this like you had time to sit down

I thought all of this happened in under 20 minutes that's what we can't wrap our brain around What the fuck do you mean that he committed four murders with one fighting for her fucking life in under 20 minutes and he still sat down? The timeline isn't adding up for me. I think that Zana fought so hard because what had come out was that she had the most offensive wounds, indicating that she was literally fighting for her life. I personally believe she had ordered that doordash around like four or something, and I think that she was probably still up, possibly scrolling on her phone, like Jess had had food, and she heard the commotion going on upstairs. Personally, I think that she probably went to see what the noise was and encountered him somewhere between her room and their room. And I think she put up the biggest fight for her life. And that is what caused the extreme exhaustion on his part to where he had to sit down in her room to collect himself to be able to get out of the house.

And I think when he saw Dylan, I mean, the level of exhaustion after killing four people in that small amount of time is insane. Why do they think he sat down? Where was the time for him to sit down? Also, why didn't Zana answer then if Dylan called? If Dylan was calling everybody, Zana didn't answer for Dylan or whoever called. I think she was already dead. I think that they were already passed away. She said that she heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog.

And that's when she started calling. So Zana would not have been dead by that. No, she didn't start calling until, if I'm not mistaken, she saw the soul him is what I am led to believe. when she opened her door the third time saw this masked figure. Okay, so Zana and Ethan were not collateral damage. It was, I thought that because their room was first, like, in the sequence of, like, I thought that he got to them so that they wouldn't stop him from going to the other two. Nope, he came through the sliding glass door and went right upstairs to Maddie's room.

Which indicates that... Was killed first? Yeah, that indicates to me that that, that she... she was the actual target and i do kind of believe that they were somewhat collateral damage i think he went there to do what he did to one person and then i think he was shocked that kaley was in the room so then he did it to her and then i think he knew he was going to get caught because he heard zana but if he was stalking kaley and not mattie he would have known that kaley had moved out and that she was going to stay in Maddie's room. So it's possible that she still was the target.

Kristen, who do you think was the target? I personally think that it was Maddie. Just for the fact of, I think he was just watching the house. I mean, that's in some of these documents that have been released over 300 pages that are currently out. They're like four weeks prior to the murder. It was said that Kaylee, when she would go outside to let Murphy out, he was going into the tree line and going in and they were hearing noises in the wood. And they were hearing noises in the wood. woods, she physically saw someone watching the house, standing there watching the home. So I think that it could have been either one of them, truly. It truly could have been either one of them. I think it was just females in general. I, you know, that that's truly what I think. And then I

think that my theory is that because in the crime scene photos that did come out, you can see Zana's door dash bag or what's assumed to be her door dash bag in the kitchen. I was wondering if she went to go put her bag in the kitchen came out and like they unfortunately met like he was coming down the steps she was coming out of the kitchen i did read something about that um well where was she killed because i thought she was killed in her room well there was some type of something going on in the hallway that they said i don't really have all the information for there but there was definitely her blood was in the hallway um so then it seems to me like she ran back to her room he chased her. Then the struggle ensued in her room, killed her, then killed Ethan. Then I think the

sitting down is because there's blood in a print on a chair. From what I'm recalling is how they knew that he sat. Because they said the crime scene was like horrifically bloody. So there's blood everywhere. I mean, yeah, the crime scene of four killings would stabbing would definitely. But then there There was no blood on Coburger's clothes or in his car? They never found his clothes or the murder weapon or the possible second weapon that was used. And there was no blood in Coburger's car. If I'm not mistaken, he cleaned it. He cleaned it.

I thought blood shows up. No, not if you clean it correctly. And see, he would have had all of that information to know how to do it from. the way that he studied. And also you've got to consider if he is like such an OCD type person, but also a killer and also studied that stuff, I could see where he could properly clean the vehicle. And who's to say that he did not have like, okay, he gets in the car after he does this. He drives away. what if he would have put like plastic wrapping or something on the seats and maybe the steering wheel for that reason but also wasn't first of all his idea i think was he almost he would have

almost got away with it but he didn't think about getting caught stalking the house weeks and months leading up to it he didn't think about um like those things that he thought he was smarter than everybody else, but he, like, really missed the mark there because surely people were going to notice that you were stalking the house and, like, casing the joint out. But maybe think about this. Maybe was it the mentality of, I am so smart as a person that I'm essentially hiding in plain sight. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think because he had been pulled over before, like, if you watch that footage of where he had been pulled over prior to any of this happening, it almost like gives um just i'm smarter than everybody wasn't he wearing gloves or something

at his own house like his parents house i wonder what is putting stuff into a zip lock bag but like i wonder were his parents not thrown off by this because they knew how he was and he was like very ocd or did they not or did they think anything of it were they not home like what I need to know what they thought of that because surely that if I saw my, if I saw my, we'll use Elliot as an example with rubber gloves on, I'd probably question him a little bit, but he has OCD and he is very meticulous and very like, I don't want to say strategic, but like he doesn't like textures. He doesn't like dirty things. He doesn't like things on his hands. So like, I would be like, what are you, what are you doing? And he'd probably tell me. But like, I wouldn't

think it was so out of his character. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I mean, my child is literally the farthest thing from OCD. So I think it's, it would be fair for me to say if I came home and my son was wearing fucking gloves, I would be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. But for you who have, you have experienced somebody with OCD, maybe his parents were just like so conditioned because that he was that way that they didn't think anything of it. Like, Elijah wears rubber gloves multiple days out of the week. Doing what? Just everything. Yard work, working on the cars, just working on everything. Like, he keeps rubber gloves in the house. And I always, he cleans with rubber gloves on.

Like, if he's going to wash the walls, he'll have the kids wear them. Wash the walls. Yeah. Like, if there's handprints on them, they have to wash the walls. So he wears rubber gloves doing all of this stuff. Yes. I'm calling him. Call him.

Call him and say, why do you wear rubber gloves? Because it's not so far-fetched. Like, it's far-fetched when I think about, like, obviously, someone being accused of murder. Like, why the fuck are you wearing gloves? But, like, when I really boil it down, Elijah and Elliot are both rubber glove wearers. Kristen said, actually, my mother is a rubber glove wearer for all cleaning shit. But I'm not talking about the rubber gloves that go to your elbows. that are like you're talking about like uh latex latex gloves i'm talking about latex gloves that is what

eliza wears no i'm going to need to call him and we get done recording because i need to know why the fuck any person would do that yeah and are we dealing with more co-burners well no i'm you know well um now we're on the subject hold on the subject of this subject of this I just want to briefly mention the foundations that are in memory of the Idaho for, the Ethan Smile Foundation, and then Made with Kindness Foundation. And we will make sure that we post links so that you guys can read up on those foundations. We love Rocket Money over here at CoffeeCommos podcast. And we're here to tell you about it again because we love it so much.

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you can also get alerts if your bills increase and price. If there's unusual activity in your account or if you're close to going over budget and even when you're doing a good job, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of 500 million and canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the apps premium features, which I think is a huge savings over the year. You guys can cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket money go to rocket money.com slash coffee combos today that's rocket money.com slash coffee combos rocket money.com slash coffee combos yesterday um we announced that coffee combos podcast is crossing over

with chapter seven book club and we will be doing a live book club on August the 11th and I can't even believe that I'm at the place where I'm joining book club and like I'm no longer a fraudulent reader. No, you got your book first and started reading it, but we're reading the Idaho for an American Tragedy by James Patterson and Vicki Ward. And this obviously fits it right into what we were talking about in this episode. And so we will be covering this book. It is a hefty read. So I'll just preface this by that. It's about 430 pages. And you might be able to listen to it on audio if you're not a physical copy person. You might go to listen to this on audio. I'm not entirely sure. We'll link this on our story if you want to order it. It's also at Target. And I'm really excited

to have you as part of Book Club. I am actually really excited. I know we've been trying to do this for quite some time. So for anybody who wants to join Chapter 7 with us both being on it, it will be August 11th at 7 p.m. Eastern time. And we're going to be. be discussing this book in its entirety. I don't know how much you've read so far, Kiel, but I think I'm roughly around chapter 30. Oh, good. Okay. I haven't started it actually. You're like, I have, it brings such real life to the situation in the same way that I felt like the documentary on crime did with the parents being on there and the siblings. You just really get a good look at what these kids' lives were like prior to what happened to them.

And I think it's so far, it's been a great read. And to be perfectly honest, I can't put it down. I've been reading it every single time I can get a chance. Yeah. I am looking forward to starting it. And we'll see you guys on the live on August 11th. Like you guys said, you guys can join Patreon.com slash kale Lowry. There's a telegram group chat for it.

And there is also, we have an Instagram chapter 7 book club. so we'll be posting on there and we hope that you guys want to read along and then we will also post the links to the foundations of the Idaho for um to our social media stories and I'll make sure that it goes on chapter seven as well perfect um we do have a new little segment called petty court listener submission edition this person says I'm writing in my own wild ass story about an ex best friend. My brother's girlfriend, baby mama and I used to be super close to the point that even when they split up, I would still invite her over for dinner with my boyfriend and I even introduced her to all of my friends since she was new to the area and I wanted her to feel included.

The weird part was that she basically started hanging out with them without me and would purposely make plans with my friends when I was unavailable. I thought it was annoying, but I moved on and didn't think too much of it. Fast forward to the next summer and I broke up with my boyfriend, spent the summer being a little wild and dating several guys. Tell me why this girl started dating the same guys right after me. I thought at first it was just a coincidence because it's a smaller town and a lot of them were mutual friends, but it was four different guys in the same order. I also found out that she had sent my ex-boyfriend nude videos of herself just a week after we broke up and then she then started talking to my new boyfriend and added him on Facebook, but I just asked him to delete her

and I've cut all ties with her unless it involves my niece and brother. I have no idea why she was so insistent on trying to live my life, but it was so shady and still fucks with my head. No, that's the type of shit that you're like, why, how can you not look at this and be like, no, this is fucking weird. Okay, so I'm going to bring like a real life story to you that was kind of similar to this. Remember pickleball girl? Yes.

Okay. So not only, not only did pickleball girl try to hook up with one of my ex-boyfriends. She also did it with my ex-husband. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. And it's like, you know what? There are some people that they either want to be you so bad or they feel like you've got it like all going on. So there are bitches out there in the world that would only do. date someone because you did. I know someone like that. And it's fucking weird. No, it's very weird. No, when I saw, I don't even know how I saw it. But when I saw that these people were like friends on Facebook, I called Will and I said, um, Mr. Sir, how do you know that person?

And he said, oh, I don't know. She just like outed me on Facebook. See, people are trifling. I'm not adding anyone I don't know on my personal Facebook. Like Facebook, my personal Facebook feels like a safe, mostly safe space. So I am not having people on there, one that I'm not interacting with, but two, that I don't know. What do you need to know about my personal stuff for? Oh, and I told him, he and I had like a two-hour phone conversation about this because he was like, I need all the tea about like what's happened.

And so- Well, men fool you. They love the tea. They just don't want to admit that they love the tea. They do. And so I was telling him about like all the things that had transpired and I was like to follow the bouncing ball. This is like how it happened and whatever. And he was like, dude, that's fucking weird. He was like, I ain't talking to that girl. That's so strange. Why are people so weird? I don't know. But some, I'm not even kidding. Like I feel like that's also. more common than what people would realize to your personal Facebook is as safe as the house in Idaho okay you know what I wasn't going to call you out and be like I know for a fact there have been things posted on your personal Facebook that have gotten out that you've posted nowhere else so the fact that you feel like that is a safe space I was just going to let you think it

I think I've removed I'll I'm going to post something on my personal Facebook that I'm not going to post anywhere else. And it's going to be a lie. And I'm going to post it and see if it gets out. But mostly people think that they're spreading tea from my personal Facebook and they're not. So I don't know. We'll see. I think I've removed everybody that could have been the wrap. I think you need to pull the two truths and a lie. True. That's a good one. You know? Yes. And then see what gets out and what doesn't. Or it could possibly be all of it gets out true true and then make sure make sure that when you do this be smart about it and post it on your facebook story because then you can see who saw it so smart okay it's coming right up go ahead girl

and on that note we have foul play honestly i'll shit a brick if you read this and repeat this story because i never have told anyone but here it is the summer i graduated high school i was really into this guy. We had actually been really good friends for a long time throughout school. I never saw him as much more than a friend until our senior year. Things started to heat up, but we kept finding ourselves in trouble together. Needless to say, his mom didn't care for me much. Why is that needless to say, I want to know. Why is his mom like you? Why is that needless to say, his mom didn't care for me much and my parents were completely oblivious and had way too much trusted me. One day, we decided to hang out while his mom was at work and we went to his house. He takes me to his mom's bedroom.

Now it's really weird that I think about it, but we were 17 and 18, so it's not too surprising. We start to make out and get things going. Then later we hear the front door open. It was his mom. I was not supposed to be there. So he tells me to hurry and get in the closet like a scene out of a movie. First of all, the mom's closet is not a good idea. I'm half dressed hiding in his mom's closet while she's scrambling around her bedroom looking for God knows what and asking him a hundred questions.

As soon as she walked out of the. room into the front of the house, still questioning him, I slipped out the back door and ran as fast as I could out of there. Fast forward a few years later, I see his mom at a mutual friend's baby shower, and she tells me she knew that I was there the entire time. She put two and two together after she saw my truck parked two streets over. She laughed about it, but I was mortified even almost eight years later. I'm so glad she didn't rip me out of the closet by my hair on my head that day. I'm now a mom of three and pray these kids don't put me through hell as payback. Your show gets me through my thank you ladies for always keeping me sane ma'am hiding in a closet because you were fucking

they were just making out sure sure hon first of all why isn't that boys like teenage boys take girls to the parents bedroom like that is not that that's not a unique experience right there i've heard that so many times and i'm like thinking back to like my first encounter that happened to you yes You fucked in somebody's parents' bedroom? We didn't fuck. But if it would have went further, we would have. And I was just like, why are we in a parent's room? Kristen said, if I ever got taken to a parent's bedroom, I will gag.

Like, why does that happen? Absolutely. But, like, just how demeaning is it to be doing something like that? And then being made to hide in a closet. Remember that time that I got cheated on by that person that I was dating and, like, I went full FBI, CIA, and, like, confronted them. Please tell me why. Like, that man told her to hide in his closet.

What? And she was like, yes. So when I really did you do it? No. So she ran down the stairs, butt-ass naked, and answered the door with her little Yorkie dog. And I was the person that was at the door. So she's butt-ass naked.

and later I find out from her that she told him when they started hearing the doorbell ring for her to hide in his closet. And it's like the way if I dropped my panties for a man and his doorbell ring and he told me to hide in the closet, I would have done the same shit she did. Hell yeah. I would have been like, what the fuck am I hiding in the closet for her? I'm not even getting dressed to go see what the fuck is going on. Exactly.

But is that not fucking crazy? And you're grown. Like too grown to be hiding people in the fucking closet. I mean, this person was so grown that they had like a big fucking job, had big fucking bills and not a big dick. No. Kail is calling the police immediately. I'm cackling.

No, literally, because I'm like, we're too old for this. So now you're going to get arrested while you're naked. Okay. Not arrested while naked. Like, I cannot. just I'm traumatized from still seeing that like to this day it will always live in my fucking mind no truly how could you move on from that you can't like that's always going to pop up red free and it's also like if I'm coming in to investigate the house like in my

situation do you think I'm not looking in your fucking closet like where do you think I'm looking grown people like grown in your 30s adults hiding in closets is like you need to be committed. For sure. You guys, Coffee Convo's podcast is up for nomination in the society and culture category for the People's Choice Podcast Awards. Today is the last day to vote in the nomination round. To vote, you guys can click the link in the description of this episode or y'all can visit our Instagram, Facebook, or official Facebook group. We really appreciate you. Yesterday, we announced that Coffee Convo's podcast is crossing over with Chapter 7 book club. We will be doing a live book club on August 11th at 7 p.m. Eastern Time to discuss

the Idaho for an American tragedy by James Patterson and Vicki Ward. Make sure to sign up for access at patreon.com slash kill Lowry. All of your favorite podcasts have also teamed up to clear the list this year. It is important for us to show our support and appreciation for our teachers. Head to our socials for information on how to enter applications close on Sunday, August the 3rd. Thank you guys for always supporting our show. Please subscribe and review on the Apple Podcast app, follow and rate on Spotify, or listen wherever you get your pods. For our latest merch, visit www.comfospodcast.com to shop. For full video episodes, they are available on Kiel's Patreon at www.com slash Kail Lowry. Don't forget to follow us on

Instagram and join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community. We hope you guys have the best week and we'll talk to you soon. See ya. Just when you thought summer couldn't get any hotter, Pluto TV is turning up the heat with thousands of free movies. Presenting Summer of Cinema. Stream your favorite blockbuster films like Gladiator. I will have my vengeance.

Good Burger. This is what I do fast fit. Beverly Hills Cop, the girl with a dragon tattoo, and Julie and Julia. Bon Appetit. All for free on your favorite devices. This is Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Hi, guys, my name is Hayden, and a lot of you have been asking me to start a podcast.

Okay, I'm totally kidding. Nobody asked me to start a podcast. The world did absolutely not need another podcast, but I wanted to because there's no place on the internet where I can yap for 30 to 45 minutes straight with my best friends, you guys, and just shoot the shit. Talk about all of my favorite things like social media, pop culture, reality, TV influencers. We all know I love a good influencer. And that's what you can expect from my new podcast. A lot of you have been asking.

This is a space for some real conversations with some of my favorite creators, reality stars, maybe even a celebrity or two if they answer my DM. This is all about the world behind the curtain that I really want to share with you guys. Allow me to ask the questions that you've been dying to know the answers to. And allow me to tell my guests that a lot of you have been asking. You guys can listen to, follow, rate and review. A lot of you have been asking with me, Hayden Cohen, wherever you get podcasts.