Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - What We Learned In Jury Duty

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

CC431: On this month's bonus episode... Lindsie got chosen to be part of a jury! She recounts the unexpected experience, including the surprising realities of civil litigation and the importance of legal documents. Kristen picks some viral TikToks with one exposing the shocking costs of sorority life at the University of Alabama, sparking a discussion about finances, fines, and the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality (and Lindsie's own sorority story!). Plus, they also tackle the growing movement for mental health days in schools, and ponder the nuances of Type A vs. Type B personalities. Finally, Kristen provides a much-anticipated and positive update on her MS diagnosis and treatment journey, offering insights and advice for those seeking answers.Thank you to our sponsors!Beams: Go to shopbeam.com/COFFEE and claim your 50% offChime: Get started at chime.com/convosProgressive: Visit Progressive.com to learn more!RoBody: Find out if you’re covered for free at Ro.Co/COFFEECONVOS. Rx only.Thrive Causemetics: Save 20% off your first order at Thrivecausemetics.com/COFFEESee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is Coffee Convo's with Kail Lowry and Lindsay Crissly. I really want you to be in your feels, Kail. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye. I'm just not with a fakery anymore.

There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. Good morning and welcome back to another episode of Coffee Convo's podcast. Coffee Convo's podcast is up for final voting for the people. Choice Podcast Awards. You guys, please check your emails if you voted for us in the Society and Culture category during the nomination round, as some of you will be picked to cast your vote in the final round. Let's take this home, Kitty's. How are you doing, Kristen? I'm doing fantastic. Truly, I'm doing much better than our other head kitty or co-head kitty. Kale is

currently recovering from her procedure. I love that for her. I've been checking in in an hour. of jury duty. So that's been fun and has consumed my entire week. And I just sent someone a text message and said, I truly feel like I'm on a hamster wheel. Can we talk for a second about first the odds that you got selected for jury duty? And then the second odds there that you would actually be put on an actual jury. Yeah. So number one, for those of you who are new to this story, that maybe don't listen to the Southern Tea, but listen to coffee combos. I talked about it a lot over there. I had received a jury summons back like maybe two or three months ago. And because I never changed my address with the Department of Driver's Services, they mailed it to my old

address. And so it got forwarded to my current house. And by the time I received it, it was past the report date. So immediately I was like, I'll just turn myself in, probably have a warrant for my arrest, like, don't know what to do. Kristen ends up emailing the clerk of court and they resummon me for August, which unfortunately, it was after the first week of school starting back. So life obviously changing coming out of summer with a kid. And my entire week was completely fucked. I truly thought that I was going to go report. They were going to ask me some questions and they were going to dismiss me. That was absolutely not the process at all. You go into a room with a couple hundred people. And some people never even like leave the main like assembly room.

And then some people obviously do and they go sit for jury selection. So on the first day, I was there until about noon. And I will say I sat next to a lady that worked in the school system as a speech therapist. And so she was very interesting to talk to her husband also has had his entire career in Krispy Kreme. So I got to ask her a bunch of questions about donuts. And then they dismissed me around some, sometime like around lunchtime on the first day. And I was given instruction that I had to be back there at 9 a.m. So I was like, okay, well, maybe this is just like the process and you come back at 9 a.m. the next day and they're like, okay, you're just like done. Okay, I come back at 9 a.m. and by 10 o'clock, they're pulling me to a courtroom with about

30 to 35 other people. And you go in and you see there is a plaintiff side and a defense side. And they are facing you. And the judge starts giving instructions and starts asking you questions. So the first set of questions was you need to tell us like roughly where you live in your county. You don't have to give us like your address or anything. But, you know, general area of where you live, what you do for work, how long you've done it for work. If you have children, if you do not. And then we will proceed with questions from there. So I stand up and I'm like, oh, for sure. Like, I'm about to be done. I'll be out of here in 30 minutes. I'm going to say that I'm a media personality and a podcaster and they're going to be like, get the fuck out. Okay. Yeah. No. So then they start asking questions. And at this point, I realized that it, because they don't tell you what the actual trial is for while you're doing this. But then the next set of questions was like, have you ever run a business? Are you current? running a business. If so, do you have a business partner? If you do have a business partner, do you have an operating agreement? And I'm like, no, no, I thought that I fucked them, but they're fucking me right now. You literally, all I'm thinking of is immediately coffee convo's podcast with Lindsay and Kaye Lowry. Right. So as they're asking these questions and I get to the point of the operating agreement. I'm thinking to myself, okay, well, that might be

necessary for some. Evidently, we've ran a business for, what, eight years? Yeah. It's going to be eight years in November. Yeah. Without having an operating agreement, we're just both rogue human beings, I guess. Yep. And I'm thinking to myself, like, if I can do that with somebody that I consider one of my best friends, then I know that you can successfully run a business without one. Well, then they got to the next question about loans and investments. And I just had to raise my little paddle because I said, you know, I maybe wouldn't necessarily make somebody that I was married to sign an operating agreement or like a loan agreement if I'm lending to my husband.

Right. I don't know which side at that point chose me, but I was chosen. You were chosen. So I was like, okay. So evidently, like, I'm in this to win this. Also, what I didn't realize was that the trial started that day, which is crazy. So they send all the people that didn't get selected, like God's chosen people.

They send them out. And then you leave and then you end up coming back in and you sit like in the jury box. And I'm like, what are the chances of me getting selected for a civil litigation that's dealing with taxes? Honestly, I'm like, I'm being profiled. Oh, my gosh. And I just want to say that entire process, I feel like we deliberated. So the trial was basically two days, and then we started deliberations on the second day, but only got about 45 minutes into the deliberations. And then the next day was all day deliberating. So roughly about seven hours of deliberation in a civil case between an ex-wife, she was the plaintiff, the ex-husband, and his best friend for 50 years were the defendants. I will just say, never do I ever want to get into a civil litigation in a courtroom with a trial because you are never going to win.

And the constant question in deliberation was, number one, why was this not handled in y'all's divorce? And number two, why did you not mediate? Also that. Because no one won. I'm learning so much through you going through this because I thought once you started deliberating, you cannot leave. So you're technically under oath when you leave. So you can't talk about it until a verdict is read. Okay.

But we were given strict instruction, like once the verdict's read and then he reiterated it when he came back in when we left. He was like, you guys are now free to like publicly talk about this now that there is an actual verdict. And so I'm like, don't worry because I will. Was he talking straight at you? It was my question. Well, the funny thing was, was when the trial started, I was being looked directly at

and he was like, we can't be talking about this on Twitter. We cannot be discussing this on Instagram, but it's fair game once there's a verdict. And I'm like, don't you worry. You're like, I will get the news out. Don't worry. Tune in on Monday. What I will say is that never would I ever do a business deal where I'm lending. money to anybody without having security.

That's number one. Never would I ever lend large sums of money to anyone, including my partner, without having an attorney draft, a document with terms regarding the lending. Oh, so yes. I've lent a lot of money over the past couple of years. And when I say I was a lender on that money, I was actually a giver because I knew I was never going to get repaid that. And I would have never lent the money knowing that I needed repayment. You were a gifter.

I was a gifter. But when we're talking like $600,000, we're not gifting that. You know, that's just like a point that I'm going to draw the line. and back to civilly litigating, definitely go to mediation because neither party won in that situation. Neither party was right. And it basically felt like Judge Judy's courtroom with the stuff that was like flying in that courtroom. I just want to know, like, at what point did you tell them when you showed up? Like, I don't care what's going on. They're guilty. Like, is that the plan that you went with or? It's so interesting that you say that because I've always said that, but I feel like by the

time I got selected, I was open-minded. Like, there's always two sides to a story, right? And you've got to be the person, you have been the selected person to decipher between the two sides of the story by the exhibits that you've been given and by the testimony. When you guys were deliberating, did you have like anybody that was like not in agreement with each other? Yeah. Everybody was an agreement except three people. Oh, shit. And it's unanimous. So if one person doesn't agree, then you have to sit there until they agree. I mean, seven hours, I don't know if that's long or short in like a civil litigation. The thing is, is there was only two people in there that were actual business people that would have like business background with contracts and stuff like that. And you were one of

I was one of them, and there was this other guy that was in there, which was interesting. There was only one guy on the jury, and he was in mergers and acquisitions. So he had a great deal of knowledge regarding, like, investments and loans, which was super helpful. But he and I were completely aligned pretty much the entire way through. And I don't feel like the word would be try to convince the people that didn't agree with us. But it's like, we have this paper and it says this. And you are not allowed to speculate, but that's what you're doing and you're not reading. Yeah.

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And on that note, your ex-husband and his business partner were the borrower. And you as the wife were listed as the lender. there was a term expiration date for said loan and a penalty for interest past that date if the loan was not paid off in full. Is that a loan or is that an investment? That's absolutely a loan. That was my whole point. Well, then you get to the operating agreement and it says she has percentage in the business. Okay. But the tax documents, the percentage of business changes every tax year.

Okay. What was very interesting was I can tell you what an accountant never wants to come to court. Can promise you. And I say that very gently. I can promise you an accountant never wants to be in that position. This accountant got up testified and then literally. looked at the judge and he goes, am I done? And he was like, yes, you're excused. And he goes,

okay, don't call me back. I have never seen somebody move so fast. Because he's like, I'm not fucking with this. Like, this is a dispute. And I felt so bad for the business partner because it truly is like a dispute between an ex-husband and an ex-wife. And the accountant was like, I'm out. This is not happening. Correct. But the operating agreement did state that she had 49%. But the judge instructed that we were to look at first documents from where the business transaction started, which would have been that promissory note where they are listed as borrower and she's listed as lender. Right. Well, because I'm just going to say it, these three women wanted her to get the business and all the money, which I respect you for that. Like, go, girl, go

off. Like same. Yeah. You're like, I'm trying to be a girl's girl, but I also have to follow the law. Yeah. And that's like the position that you're put in. And it's so interesting because I've always said, like, you made it that far. You're guilty. But now being on the other side of it, it's like you're not. Are you allowed to say, I guess you can, like what exactly were the disputes in the matter? Like, was she not paid back or what happened? Okay, well, everybody involved this is really funny. It's like everybody's shady, right? Yeah. Like you get there and you start looking at documents and it's like everybody doesn't have a brain. Okay. So I think what she was saying was her security on her loan that was being called an investment was the physical property of the

business, like the property that the business sat on. There were two LLC. the one that held the property and then the one that held the business and its operations. Okay. She was a part of the loan for the LLC that held the property, which go off, sis, because, you know what, if I could get real estate collateral, same. Yeah, like, that's her, that's literally her security or collateral, for sure. Same. However, I think because the business, which is in.

insane. So they were talking about COVID and the increase in sales at liquor stores. Honey, it was like reading the obituaries. Like when you were reading these tax documents, it was like the fuck. Like y'all's profit like increased that much over COVID. Like that's insane. So the guy who was the owner of this liquor store was talking about COVID. And he said, you know, some smaller stores did go under. But the larger stores, they rose because everybody was either working from home at one point. And if they were, they were drinking at home. Yep. Because places were closed. So can you believe that a liquor store in the, suburbs gross is $5.6 million a year. Oh, I'm sure. I look at the ones near me and I'm like,

you guys are rolling in the dough. Can I open a liquor store? You said, hey. Because I'm not going to lie. I already have someone looking into it. Oh my God. Because I'm like, if all I have to do is sell white claws and trullies and like malibu like i'm good like that's all i'm stocking come here for those good right that is so funny there was just like literally no winner and and i say all of that to say that if you are getting in business with anyone make sure a lot of people think that they can go on these websites and get these templates for like these agreements and stuff and think they're actually going to hold up in court i can promise you based off of what I saw, you need an attorney.

Yeah, you need a lawyer. There's like a difference between template agreements that you can go off of and things you actually need an attorney for. Right? Big, big, big difference. And it's like, you know what? I'm just so sick of everything. Like, and I said this, the only people in litigations and I say this really funnily right now.

the lawyers win the only way that a plaintiff wins in that situation because they have the burden of proof right so they have to prove the case is if you have a smoking gun I have a lot of smoking guns at home right so do I think that I could win in court I do but do I think that a lot of people take stuff to court like prematurely and don't have enough stuff and pay all of these attorney's fees. It's like just get an attorney and and send a letter and go to a mediation. You also just need a good attorney that will literally look you dead in the face and say you do not have a case. Right. But like I do think that there's like, I don't want to say the word fraud because I think that's the wrong word, but it's kind of like the word that I'm looking for.

there are a lot of people that are in all different types of businesses, whether it be law or whether it be a doctor, whatever, that will just tell you what you want to hear. Yes. And they will take on anything as long as the financial benefit is there. Yeah, exactly. Like, they're just here to collect a paycheck. And I know that we don't operate like that. And I don't want to be involved with anybody who operates like that. But I will say in this situation that I was involved in, I don't believe that either of those attorneys took on the money thinking that, like, I think that her attorney completely believed her and his attorney completely believed him, which is, I mean, you do run into situations like that. And it's just unfortunate, you know, it's just like, you know what, we just need to leave the

courtrooms for for people who literally, I do think that it should be a law that you're required to mediate something before you can litigate it. I feel like in most circumstances, I would agree. Well, you know, in my parenting plan, it's like that. That you have to mediate first, yes, which I like. I think that that makes sense. I think you should because everything that I've ever heard is you never won, especially when it comes to kids, you never want a decision to be made for your children by a judge. Listen, I can promise you in any case that I have ever known of people, that I personally know that have had to have a judge order on custody, nobody's happy. No, I've never seen somebody come out happy ever.

And it's just unfortunate. It's like, can't we just all do? And I know that I'm living in a fictitious world. It's like these rose-colored glasses because I know it's not the case for all people. But I, like, it's not a situation to where I couldn't, in my situation, I'll just call we'll over here and be like, let's get into a knockdown dragout right here in the kitchen. Because if you think that I'm going to the courthouse, I'm not. You're like, it's too expensive.

You know what I mean? It's like we could invest all that money in our kid or we can invest fighting with each other and neither win. Yeah. And you're fucking up someone's whole week. Listen, I can promise you also a judge doesn't want that in their courtroom. Oh, I'm sure. Like they're already pissed off when you enter. yeah okay so after all of that you had said that we were tagged in two different tic talks and

neither of us have reviewed them correct so i would love to see what these tags are this is really going to be a live show okay so let's let's find out live show not a live show Okay. The first one, I don't even have like descriptions. Okay. So this is really rogue. Great. Got very quickly that being in a sorority Alabama was not worth the $1,100 a month. I'm not sure if there's any way to prepare you for the financial burden you take on when you join a sorority. And I went through Bamarrest. One of the first things every house told me was exactly how much their dues were. And I was like, okay. Yeah, like I'll make it work. But what you don't realize is all the extra costs that are going to come with joining a sorority. Just what happens when you're in. organization with nothing but rich wealthy girl. Just want to add here, you don't have to be rich to join Alabama sorority. You can definitely make it work, but it's going to be a struggle. Most sororries aren't like this, but every time there was a day party, I felt like I was actually

about to go to a fashion show. And I don't know why, but I felt pressure to get on revolve and get like a $200, $300 for love and lemon stress every single time we had some type of event. I was like, oh, it's so normal for like all these other girls to have like all that stuff. So I guess I should buy it too. And obviously that added up. And not only that, that there are fees. Basically, in pretty much any sorority, anytime you get like punished, it's going to be with money. So if you miss a chapter, it didn't do something on time, you're going to be fined. I'm a STEM major and I do not have time to always make it to every sorority event. So I kept getting hit with crazy fines for missing things and it would just make my dues even more expensive than

the five grand it already is every semester. Also, every sorority has a philanthropy. And for ours, we would have to raise like $200 each semester. But if you couldn't find people to donate to you, you would have to pay that money out of your pocket and dues never stop you get that bill every month you have to put on a credit or debit card to pay them it's never ending i just realized like the experience i was getting this wasn't worth the money i was paying anymore and i can talk more about that if you guys want me to i've been refraining from it because i just still have so much love and respect for everyone but um basically the main reason i dropped and why most people drop it's really freaking i have so much to say okay so let's give context here we were tagged in this video

The girl's username is Malia Trevino, M-A-L-I-Y-A, T-R-E-V, as in Victor, I-N-O-O. First of all, she's absolutely adorable. She's freaking gorgeous. And I am about to vomit at the amount of money she just said. It costs to be in a sorority. Okay. So I don't think that I've really ever talked. about on any podcast ever about my sorority days?

Very briefly, but like never about like, I don't think dues or anything like that. No, I haven't. And I ended up dropping out of my sorority. No fucking, okay. I need story time. Coffee Convo's podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little money there, and hoping that it all works out? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help you find options within your budget. Try it today at

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schools do rush differently. So ours was the week before school started. Okay. And basically, you do spend a lot of money. So you have to have dresses for dresses and outfits for the different events throughout the week to go to the different themed stuff that they have planned. So like you'll know that in advance. And you go to each of the chapters houses or rooms or however it's organized. And you basically start eliminating from there. Like, they're eliminating and you're eliminating. So I think my school had six sororities.

And at the end, I decided if I didn't get the one that, like, I wanted that I was set on, then it's something called, and I quote, suiciding. Oh. So at the end, you're supposed to put in, like, your number one house and your number two house. Okay. I just put in one house and we were told not to do that. So you said bet. I said bet because I didn't want to be in the other one.

So if I didn't get the one that I wanted, then I just wasn't going to be in one. Okay. And I did love it for the time that I was in it. I was a FIMEU and it's interesting. I dated a guy who was married to a FIMEU as well. So I'm like, so you have a type. Right. Um, however, I met Will shortly after I rushed. So just as a refresh, I had said I was going to

college and I had told my parents, like, I'm not going to be focused on boys. I'm going to be focused like on school and my sorority. And I'm just going to like live my life for four years. Yeah, right. Um, you also said that. Yeah. I met Will sometime at the beginning of September. of my freshman year. And we immediately started dating and he played baseball at the school. So the sororities and fraternities would have parties. And mostly it was the fraternities and the sororities like select sororities would be invited to go to these parties. And then also the athletes would come to these parties. So I actually met a couple of Will's friends before I met

will okay and then me and one of my girlfriends started hanging out with the baseball team and so once I started dating will he had games and it was fun to go to like athletic events so I just wouldn't show up a chapter oh shit well you get fined every time you don't I was going to say so were you also getting the fines that this girl was speaking about absolutely like and at larger schools like University of Alabama, which is essentially the queen of sorority rush, I feel like those dues are so high. But from what I'm understanding, some of those houses are paid off and some of those aren't. So those dues are so high. And like the sorority dues are not the same across all houses. Oh, so it's not like standardized. No. So like one sorority might be like these dues and the house that

sits next to them might be significantly lower because that house might be paid off. Do you know that before, like, went during rush or you don't know that? I don't know. I mean, I would imagine that they would get somewhat of information. I would imagine that girls that are going and, and I would advise anybody going through Alabama sorority rush to do their due diligence and do do a decent amount of research, because that would be a big deal. I mean, it could be like thousands of dollars worth of difference. I mean, that's what I was going to say because like also do you just not, I don't feel like it's fair that like finances should prevent somebody from joining a sorority. So like, do they

have anything where it's like you can sponsor a sorority girl or we don't know? You know, I don't know. And I have regularly thought about this. If I had a daughter, like, would I encourage her to go through rush and it was always said by the athletes oh like sororities and fraternities like they pay for their friends and it's like you play with your friends so shut the fuck up and also i mean unless you're on full ride scholarship like you're still paying something to be there also so yeah but i just feel like i don't know if i had a daughter and she was adamant about doing it and it was like her dream. I would support the dream, but I would also give insight to the reality of it because it got down to the point. So I believe this was like my, maybe I was a

junior when I dropped my sorority. It was a while like after I was already in it. But Will was starting pitching against Georgia Tech on TV. And it was a night that I had chapter. Oh, you got caught. I already see where this is going. Yeah. Someone told that I was at the fucking Georgia Tech game. Were you on the TV? Yes. Oh, shit. So somehow I got figured out that like I was at Georgia Tech and I'm like, how do you like tell someone? I feel like that should be an excuse. Like the same is like a doctor's note, right? Like, your boyfriend is pitching on TV. And in fact, I'm glad that I did it because number one, I dropped my sorority the next day. And I said, I'm not paying any more dues. Like, I'm not doing this shit. And we'll also pitch to shut out game. So I'm like, you know,

we're good. Win, win. I mean, for, I'm thinking about what we just watched. And that girl's saying, like, she's in STEM. Yeah. So she's missing it for school. And I, just feel like that's crazy that there's no, like that's almost saying that you can't do high level academics and also be a part of a sorority. I know. And I do think that both things can exist, but just as an incoming freshman, trying to balance all of that and balance being away from their parents and figuring out like their own schedules and stuff like that, I feel like that is very hard. And I also think that, you know, the amount of money outside of just the dues, like it is, it really makes me feel like it's keeping up with the Joneses mentality. And there

are a lot of people that go to the University of Alabama that come from a significant amount of wealth. I definitely could tell because like obviously we've talked about Rush Talk for what two years now. Yeah. Three years now. So it's funny that we got tagged in this because I feel like that's what's like either, I think it just passed, if I'm not mistaken. It's either happening right now or just passed, but I think it's actually bid day as we're recording this today. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you're all, we always hear about University of Alabama for sure. And you could, I mean, I can tell you would assume that like there's a lot of money involved. There's just a lot of money involved. And I was watching this one guy who was kind of like making fun of the outfits of the day on TikTok. And while I,

I thought it was somewhat like comical at the same time. I was like, stop trying to be a douchebag. Like these girls are out here. They are growing TikTok followings off of this rush talk situation. Like, don't be a damper on their day because they're out here saying that this outfit is all aloe. And my bracelets are E. Newton. and my shoes are golden goose and my bag is a long champ bag and this scarf is amaz and the outfits are crazy and like some of these TikToks there are people on there that

literally live their entire week to see these girls outfits and to tag them on their Amazon storefronts they go and find dupes for these girls' outfits. outfits and put it on their Amazon storefronts and they're linking. And it's like, can we please stop talking about them and making fun of them? Because you're also monetizing off of them. I was going to say, like, they're out here, like doing all kinds of things. But like the girls who do it all, like that's really smart because they're kind of like starting businesses, whether people want to believe it or not, influencer marketing, huge money, huge money making business. So if you can break into it any way that you can, that's actually

very, very smart of people to attempt to do that. If that's something that they want to pursue. So I don't, I don't love that. I also was wondering, like, do they have, I've never seen it, but like, what is the rush process for fraternities? Because, like, we're not seeing that type of shit. And I really want to. I'm like very curious. So I also was a little sister of a fraternity. What the fuck does that mean? Basically, like, they, they adopt you? Like, the fraternities basically, I can just tell you about like my process. Like, They basically like rush you and you are being selected without knowing that you're being selected. And then you become an official little sister of a fraternity.

Okay. So you can be a sorority sister and a little sister. You can be a sorority sister and a little sister of a fraternity. Okay. Their rush does look very different. Okay. I don't know a ton about it. I know it's way more rogue than like.

like sorority rush for sure like difference between guys and girls right 100% I'm like look who's planning it they're they're out at kegger seeing how much beer like these guys can drink okay and seeing like what their limit is and a lot of times like you know what fraternities like it's kind of pretty cool because if you think back to like the Idaho four right when they were talking about the James Patterson book about having like these designated DEDs through the fraternities that sorority girls could like tap into and the freshmen of the fraternities would have to be sober for a night to be the designated DED for who called. I did like that concept. I felt like that was good. It's good. Except a lot of times with certain fraternities, nobody's an actual D.D.

because they're all blackout because they drank punch punch out of a bathtub. Their immune systems are strong as hell. You know what? It's so crazy. I think because I don't drink punch punch anymore, I never got sick in college, like ever, except the one time that I got the swine flu, which was like detrimental to my soul. Yeah. But outside of that, I really never got sick in college and I swear it was ever clear. Honestly, nothing.

It burned out my insides. I was going to say nothing was growing inside of us. with that. Not a damn thing. There was nothing happening. Correct. I don't know about you, but sometimes insurance can be so confusing, whether you're trying to figure out what is covered, what's not, where you even start with that process. Our next sponsor, Roe, is making that so easy with their free insurance checker. They break it all down. They make it so easy for you to get the care that you may already qualify for. And Roe gives you the info you need to feel confident in your decision to start treatment. I absolutely love that. Roe's insurance checker led you

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Twelve states officially recognize mental health as a valid reason for a school absence, just like a sick day. These include Washington, California, Illinois, Maine, Virginia, Colorado, Oregon, Connecticut, Connecticut, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Kentucky. In these states, absences for mental or behavioral health are excused, though policies may vary and some require a note. Some limit the number of days per year and some only require parent notification. What about other states? Bills have been proposed but have not yet passed in places like New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, New Jersey and Delaware.

Keep fighting parents and advocates. We've made progress, but there's more to do. Okay. Wow. Initial thought as a parent, you know, I have said before that I allow Jackson a certain amount of mental health days, kind of like you have a ticket and you can turn it in. Yeah. But if you're just trying to fuck around and I know you're fucking around, you're not using. it. But if you immediately get in the car from the bus and you're like, mom, I can't go to school

tomorrow and we have a conversation about it, you're going to be able to use one of those tickets. The only state that I am surprised that has that, like, excuse for absence is Kentucky. That also shocked the shit out of me, too. It did. I believe that that should be a federal law, personally. If I do think that mental health is a huge issue across the world, definitely our country. And I think just as adults that sometimes we need a mental health day, think about how we're sending our kids to school and they're sitting in classrooms for that amount of hours a day and we're saying just because they're kids, they don't need a mental health day.

I am a firm believer that everybody, I don't care what age you are, needs mental health days. Agreed. We never know the burden that people are carrying. We're quick as a society to say when somebody harms themselves or something happens. What is the first thing you always hear? I had no idea. I wish I would have known. I think part of the problem of people not speaking about it isn't even necessarily the stigma anymore of like surrounding it.

because I feel like we have made progress there. I'm hoping that there's more. But I think the other part of it is, great. So I'm going to tell somebody and then fucking what. Nothing changes. Nothing changes. You can't catch a break. You can't immediately change your circumstances.

Like, it's, you know, I just think that it goes beyond just talking about it. It's like what can, what support can we offer people? And that goes as far as, and like, yeah, do I think that it needs to be a controlled situation. Like I'm not advocating for people who are, you know, working jobs. Obviously, the world wouldn't go around if everyone decided we're all taking a mental health day today. So I definitely think there's a lot of planning and like strategic rollout that would have to go into that. But I just think that it should just be part of society. Well, it's like, for example, just before this recording, you know, because you heard me, I was on the phone trying to get in touch with the

orthodontist office because Jackson missed fifth and six period because school here starts in middle school at 9 a.m. and the bus does not let the kids off until roughly 4.45 p.m. As a parent, I don't feel like I owe the public school system an excuse to take my child to the orthodontist because by the time he gets off the bus, that office is closed. Right. So if I go into the school and I check him out and I write excuse ortho, which I understand, like some people are out here just fucking lying. Like, I get it. But do you really think that I'm coming to check my kid out for the ortho just to miss fifth and sixth period? Like, come on. Absolutely not. No, I'm not. But I, and I'm going to say this, you're probably not going to like this comment, Kristen. From a co-parenting perspective, Will does not believe in mental health days, and I do. Will and I also socially and politically lie on completely different spectrums. Right. Okay. If my kid wants a mental health day, I don't care if it is your day or if it is my day and I know that he is struggling and your ass has dropped him off at that schoolhouse, I'm checking him out. I don't, I don't disagree. Catch me outside. How about that? I don't disagree because I just think

that it's super important. Like, I think that if honestly, if every adult could get like a mental health day, a quarter, which I still don't think is enough, but like I think that's pretty realistic to be able to do. I think that that would change a lot for people. And I mean, I guess Will's argument with it is our kids and this is not everywhere, right? So this is, specifically pertaining to us roughly every six weeks our kids have somewhat of a break so will's argument would be we have to build our child so that he can be resilient and he can take a break when everybody else takes a break at six weeks but i do feel like i agree with it to some extent but to some extent i don't because every kid and every person is different

And so for those reasons alone, what if Tommy goes home crying because somebody made fun of his shoes and he doesn't want to go back to school and his mom's like, I have to go to work tomorrow, but I'll go and buy you new shoes. But we can't go until after I get off work tomorrow. Well, if Tommy's so upset that he came home crying, then guess what? Tommy gets to stay home. Yeah. And I know a lot of people wouldn't agree, right? They're like, oh, well, you're coddling kids and that's how we raise like generations and whatever. But I also think that we're a part of of a generation who was taught to take everything on the chin and keep it moving and we're so desensitized to stuff that we don't know how to have sympathy and empathy for other people's situations. And I think that there is a huge reason too why we are a generation full of a ton of health issues at very young ages. I agree with that wholeheartedly, but I also agree people that are a part of our generation, the kids that we are raising, I think you're one of two ways. I think you either fall the way that Will does that's like, I had to do it and I was okay, so you're going to do it, or you fall on the other side where it's like me, I had to do it

and I'm not getting away with faking sick or I'm not, you know, so I can have a minty be. I'm not getting away with it, so I'm going to make him do it. No, I look at things differently now and I say, if I am not. not the one to change my one child and their perspective, then it's going, that, that is generationally going to be an issue. And, and that's just a small part of the issue. Because I only have one that's going to be an adult, right? Like, I believe that everybody should have freaking mental health days. Yeah. I think, too, it takes, it's a lot to realize when we all say, like, well, we had X, Y, and Z and we turned out fine. Are we really fine? Like, let's do some self-revement.

reflection. No, we have convinced ourselves that we are fine. Let's not lie. If we're going to, if we're going to come on the podcast and talk some real shit, let's not lie about me feeling like I was going to have a minty be this morning. No, literally, like that's, you know, I, it's life is freaking lifing. Life is hard. I don't know a single person that is not, excuse my French, getting fucked in the ass right now in my life. Like, I really don't. Y'all, fucked in the ass for four days worth of my work. And I am no better than any fucking other person, whether you're listening to this or

whether you were a person at that courthouse that was with me this week, four days of my time, I made $140. And people can't just say they can't afford it, right? like there's just so many problems there's just so many problems with life right now and the world and just all the things that like somebody not being able to go to work for four days could make could mean the difference between having a roof over their head food in their stomach clothes on their back getting a prescription that they need to get like there it just the ramifications of even the smallest things are the things that I might take for granted that somebody else

doesn't have that luxury to or that, you know, like, it's just the way that life affects every single person. I don't know if you don't start realizing it until you get older. I don't really know what it is. But like, I think about that shit all the time. And it's like, I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, I don't really feel like it's necessarily my civic duty to sit here and listen to ex-spouse's fight. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know of itself is a luxury. Them being in that courtroom to fight about it and pay attorneys is a luxury. Do you know that they both roughly had spent $200,000 in litigation fees? Like, think about just anybody out here in the world, right? Like, such a small percentage of people could afford to be able to do that. If you could afford to be able to do that,

then you should be able to afford to fucking let it go. Because there are bigger issues in the world than y'all having a pissing match in a courtroom. It's, it's, it's, literally insane um there was a man there was a man that was there that had been pulled for the jury and i felt so bad truck driver don't make me cry right now owned his own truck so he has to and i'm just basing this off of what he said and i fully believe it it cost him fourteen hundred dollars a week to run his operation by him being summoned for jury duty to sit there there, he still has to pay that $1,400. Yeah. And he made $140. That's if, that's if he was selected. Right. Right. Like, that kind of stuff breaks my heart because that's a person that's probably

providing for a fucking family. And $1,400 is going out the door and he's making nothing. Like, he's in the negative. He is in the negative because of the jury process. in the United States of America. It's truly a shit show. Lindsay, I don't know about Georgia, but Pennsylvania has been hot, sticky, muggy, all of the things. So I really have had to change up my makeup routine so I can look refreshed. I don't want to do full glam. I don't want to do any of those things. But, you know, I'm using all of my Thrive Cosmetics products. I love Thrive Cosmetics so much. It is a go-to for

simple, clean, radiant summer look. So minimal effort, maximum impact. Every product is 100% vegan, cruelty-free, and made with clean skin-loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. I am a big, big advocate for the brilliant eye brightener. I actually just ran out. So this gives me a reminder that I need to go and order it. It is a waterproof eye shadow highlighter stick made to brighten and open your eyes. I also use this on my lid. It is so, so, so good. And you know that Kail and I have been a lover of the liquid lash extension's mascara for years. If you've never heard about it, it is a vegan tubing mascara with over 40,000 five-star reviews. It truly makes your lashes look extra long by wrapping around each

lash from root to tip. And the removal process is also my in Kail's favorite. It slides right off with warm water without yanking your natural lashes. I love these products so much. And with over $150 million in product and cash donations to 600 plus giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact, and that's beauty with purpose. Maximize your look with minimal effort. Go to thrivecosmetics.com slash coffee for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics, C-A-U-S-E-M-T-I-C-S.com slash coffee. Moving on from that, I would love to get into the conversation about type B personalities because if one more person, one more, tells me that I'm a type B personality, I'll kiss you.

Okay. So I saw this article come up and it says laid back unreliable, free spirited, the type B personality is having a moment. Videos celebrating the personality type are getting thousands of views on social media, but what is type B and why is it going viral? Eileen Rutledge, a health care executive and entrepreneur, has one type A friend. She counts herself as one two, one hybrid, and another who is a massive type B. That friend is the kind you might hesitate to buy an expensive ticket for because there's a chance she might not show up. She'll do something amazing, says Rutledge. Like the time her daughter was setting up a new apartment out of the blue, the type B friend showed up with a full set of dishes and a

kitchen aid mixer. We appreciate her ability to be completely spontaneous, Rutledge says, of her friend, she inspires us to be more free-spirited. The type B personality is having a moment on TikTok. Videos on being and celebrating type B have thousands of views. Plenty also poke fun at it. The virality of the virality has given some a label for how they operate. Maybe you're type B at work or navigating type A spaces, but it is not scientifically valid way to understand personality. Over the last 50 years, it has become clear that there are no personality types explains Colin DeYoung, the lab director of the DeYoung personality lab at the University of Minnesota. Instead, personality is more like a spectrum of traits. Categories may be comforting,

but they can also be limiting. So why do we keep returning to them? Experts say they can help us understand human behavior and contemporary culture, but digging deeper into how personality works offers its own sort of satisfaction and an honesty that goes beyond typology. So it goes on to talk about what does it mean to be type B. It says they were interesting. introduced in the late 1950s by cardiologists linking personality to heart attack risk. Type A behavior was characterized as competitive and work-driven while type B emerged as a less aggressive laid-back opposite, essentially the anti-thesis of type A. The tobacco industry funded much of this research as part of a strategy to blame something other than cigarettes for poor health. This is really going downhill fast.

They go on and talk about, is the type B personality real? I mean, I can identify type A, type B, but maybe it's like just identifying the traits and knowing like what I'm talking like what I mean by that. But it says high anxiety correlated with health issues, but being conscientious and diligent, we're actually linked to better health. It's evident that most people don't fit neatly into either type. Today, most personality researchers like a trait based rather than type based perspective. I agree with like the trait based. verse type because I am exactly both. Yeah, you are. Like I, what do I tell you all the time? You appear as type A, but you are a closet type B. I am. Like, I, I don't like a lot of like sporadic moments in my life, but I feel like I do a lot of sporadic things. Yes. And then you crash the fuck out. Yeah, because I'm like, I need to go back to my routine. My routine. And I, I just. do not do well off of a routine like literally in my crash out and I'm not even going to say crash out. It was like a mini like five second crash out where I was like I'm going to lose my

fucking mind. I feel like I needed like my schedule to be normal. Yeah. But then like on the weekends I like absolutely no schedule. Like if there is anything on my schedule, it's not because I ignored it. Exactly. Right. And that's the type B. me. But then there is type A in me where I'm like, okay, everything needs to be scheduled. I need to operate off of a schedule. I need like my workouts on my schedule. I need my work on my schedule. I need the meetings on the schedule. I need stuff with Jackson on a schedule. I need my house and order on a schedule. Yes. Anything outside of those things, we don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, you never, we never know. Like I might, I might be at something.

fancy place getting oysters? You could be on a boat. We never know. Like, we just don't know. And that's the type B. 100%. So they go on to talk about in this article how it's, you know, can be easy to identify. But they're saying, like, it's not harmful, but personality typologies can be misused. Companies sometimes overvalue certain types and use flawed tests to match hires. There's also the issue of self-criticism if you don't fit the ideal. So I guess a lot of people have issues with, you know, feeling down on themselves because they're not type A. And now they laugh about it and they kind of hold each other accountable talking about how like, we're all type B. So we need to put some controls in place to get here on time and stuff. So I really think that it's

really just trait matching in my opinion where it's like, I look at traits in myself and I'm like, this is type A, this is type B. Same thing with you. Right. I'm like, everyone thinks like stick up her ass like has to operate on a schedule all these things type a but like type b you like buck the system i buck the system everywhere there is a potential to buck yeah you sign up and then you're like i didn't want to be here it's like that correct i'm like you my entire week has been in shambles and because of that i'm like okay there has been no type a part of this week so i can't operate as a full type b no you can't and you cannot operate as a full type a because then you like, really.

Well, then I'm just like, okay, well, now it's like a robotic life. And if everything is predictable, then count me out. Like, I'm just not doing it. I have to be, because of all the hats that I wear, I have to be type A in all, like, working hours, capacities, et cetera. Remember how I said, like, we're going to start being real honest? Yeah. What you were really saying just now,

is I have to be type A because Lindsay and Kale aren't. I mean, just that, but also just like the hats that I wear and the jobs that I have to get done. But my type B comes out, the minute that I shut that laptop, my type B is like, we could have a dinner planned, right? Like dinner could be thawed out on the counter, like stuff to make it. And Corey would like, all right, I'm going to start dinner. And I'm like, no, the fuck, we're not eating that. like we're just going rogue i don't really care i don't want to hear about plans i am the one that's canceling i am signing up because i want to see you and i am also thinking in my head about

how i can get out of doing the thing that's the actual reason my marriage failed now come to think of it because if you want to talk about type type a do you think okay let me ask you this do you think that there is a world where two type A's can exist in the same home? Absolutely the fuck not, because their type A's are different type A's, in my opinion. Do you think that two type Bs can exist in the same home? Also no, because who the hell is holding it together? I think the best scenario is you have a type A and you have a type B. Yeah, for sure. Like the A, B combo, that's where you really, you really thrive and love that's that's cori and i i'm a all day i'm b at night time his a comes out when my b is like real strong when you have two type a's in a house and a marriage

it's when you start looking at your kitchen knives you know what i mean yeah meanwhile keel and Lowry is blowing up the group chat like the okay hold on let me give you guys some context wait i just saw it let me give you all some context okay number one she has sent a side-by-side a brian co-coberger with ted bundy i will admit when i saw this originally before she decided that it was a good idea to send this to us and scare what the fuck out of me um i will admit that I was terrified. And I was like, okay, maybe, maybe killers do have like this distinctive look. That's number one. Number two, she has sent a video of Brian Coburger in prison leaked. Are we shocked? No, we are not. She then has sent Brian Coburger had only 18 contacts saved in his

phone and somewhere identified as girl I ran with and second girl I ran with and third person was saved as a note with hair. Then she decided that she was going to send the princess Diana to beanie baby. And now we see her in a vehicle. In a vehicle pulling up at home so she can rest and recover. I feel like she's missing us and she's missing the kitties. She's missing so, so hard.

I do want to talk about one last thing though before we go. What? So a ton of people have been messaging me. and asking me for updates on my health. But I also got pinged in a question. I said we would talk about it on this episode that airs Monday. For someone from the kitty gang in our Facebook group said, this is a question for Kristen or any other MS Warriors. Can you tell me how long it took you to get your diagnosis? And if there was a specific test that finally gave you answers, my mom has been to so many doctors and nobody can give her any answers. I feel like they're just guessing

and trying to treat symptoms. She's ready to just give up. She's 70 years old. I would love for her to get an accurate diagnosis and be able to enjoy her retirement a little thanks in advance. First, I want to say thank you guys for always checking on me and asking how I'm doing and asking for updates and all the things. I am just not a socially active individuals. So I don't really like update. But I will say that I went to the neurologist last week and I got my first good report in two years, which was super exciting for me. We love it. I have not had a good doctors report literally in two years. So that was really exciting for me. I did do my first full treatment of Okravis, which is the DMT therapy that my doctors and I sat down and chose for me

to try. I made it through that process with little to no complaints, seems to be doing well. I don't like to talk about it too much because I don't want to jinx it, but I'm doing pretty well. no complaints um and right now it's kind of just wait and see i get my next treatment in December um and this summer with it being super super hot in Pennsylvania i've really been trying to manage symptoms because just be i don't know how to really explain it easily but they don't have treatments for MS outside of trying to prevent you from having more attacks and having further disinilities. Yeah, just like for, exactly. So there are some remaining things that happen to me when it gets super hot, something with people with MS. And also I take medication for

migrains. That's an SSRI. If you do not know and you're on an SSRI, you might have heat intolerance. MS also gives you heat intolerance or temperature intolerance. A lot of people's is heat. Some people have issues with cold. If I'm outside and I get too overheated, I can experience numbness tingling things going numb not feeling great all the things however after the first time that happened to me and I absolutely crashed out because I thought I was having a relapse by the next day once I cooled down everything was fine this is evidently normal so just things like that that I have to pay attention to so I don't go outside now unless I'm inside the pool so catch me on my weekends literally in the pool because I can be out in the sunshine getting the vitamin D I need

and also staying cool in the water. So that's been super helpful for me. But other than that, I'm doing really, really great. And that makes me happy. I want to circle back to where this person had asked if there was a specific test that gave you answers. And just from observing and being involved, like on an observatory friend side, I feel like that was such a long process for the actual.

actual diagnosis? So it really depends. Mine was a little bit more difficult because I ended up in the hospital. My first situation with MS, my first flare, my first relapse, whatever they want to call it, I had optic neuritis in my left eye, but I also had COVID at the same time. So I thought it was something that was going on with COVID, had no idea, like I would have never assumed that I had MS at all. So I waited a significant amount of time before getting checked out and ending up in the hospital,

getting an MRI, all those things. At that time, they found one lesion on my brain. Unfortunately, that does not meet the qualifications for diagnosis. So I was sent for a second opinion. By the time I got in there, got scans done, I had already gone through like two more relapses. so my doctor like knew that this was 99.9% what it was, but we couldn't diagnose me to get me on medication because I did not meet the criteria of diagnosis. So like that's like an argument that I don't want to get into like too far on this, but like I don't agree with having to basically wait for things to get worse before getting a diagnosis. I don't like that method. I think that early detection and early treatments are the best options and that's just my personal opinion.

But I feel like that is such a miss just like medically in general because I feel like anybody who's ever been through anything trying to get a diagnosis, that is the typical response that you get from medical. It's almost like it gets worse before you get a diagnosis and sometimes it's too far. I mean, I look at myself and I'm privileged and so glad that I was able to go to the doctors that I was able to go to because not everybody has that ability. I've been with my neurologist because of other issues that I had since I was 20. So I started with him and he referred me to a top specialist in the MS field and I went to them. And he had told me point blank at my consultation. This is most likely what it is.

So if you're coming here hoping I tell you something different, I'm probably not going to, but we cannot confirm your diagnosis because you didn't have. have X, Y, and Z going on yet. So went to him. Got my scans done, got the report back, knew that I had more lesions at that time. I knew that, like, I met the criteria for the diagnosis. And then I was able to take myself to Mayo Clinic in Arizona and meet with a top doctor at the MS Institute there. And all three of the doctors agreed with each other. And that's how we formulated what the plan was going to be, because for some reason, unbeknownst to me, I have a more aggressive form of relapsing remitting MS. So it was very important that I got on a DMT

as quick as possible. And, you know, to my knowledge, it's crazy how much progress has happened in such a short amount of time because I was talking to someone who was in their 60s that had have MS since they were about 25. And back then, there was like maybe three medications to choose from, if not less. And now the medication that I'm on, it's only been out since 2018. So. So wild. And I mean, so thankful for advancements, right? Like, but it is so sad to hear from people who have dealt with the same thing, but like didn't have access to that. So for that, like, I'm so grateful that you have had that experience. I did want to like, brief.

to just discuss the Mayo Clinic. Yeah. I know that you had such a great experience there. And I'm a big advocate regardless for any diagnosis, whether we're talking about MS or whether we're talking about for the ADHD, for example, if you have a child, like I had Jackson double diagnosed and I do think that it is better, you know, it's kind of like having attorneys, like two is better than one. um getting a doctor's opinion and then getting a second opinion like i think that's so important

and i know that you were i know that you were having second thoughts and i don't know if it was just like the fear that you were going through of getting it solidified through the mayo clinic or if it was just the stress of travel or if it was like a combination of all of that but it was combo it was definitely combo because obviously i'm in pennsylvania getting to Arizona, not cheap, right? Like, not cheap. I don't like spending money. I also have just internal issues of like spending money on myself that I don't feel like that's like a valid thing to do, which, you know, whatever. We all have our shit. So I was struggling with that. I was struggling with the travel. I was struggling with like missing work stuff. Like I just didn't

like any of it. And I think ultimately deep down, I knew from the day that my first MRIs were done and I read my MRIs and I googled everything that night and I'm talking like literally two years ago now, I knew I had MS. Like it was so clear as day making sense to me. So like knowing it and then like not really being able to do anything about it, that was really difficult. But then at the same time, knowing it, but having it confirmed by a medical professional, you just don't want to hear that something's wrong with you. You don't want to hear it. And you also don't want to hear it especially and I can only speak from my experience of when you know that there is no actual cure. I didn't want to hear it. That I did not want those words said to me. It was fine for me to say them to

myself, but I did not want those words said to me because I was terrified. I didn't, I didn't know that there were so many people out there who can live a very full life. And my instant reaction was like, holy shit, I'm either going to die or end up a paraplegic in a wheelchair. And that scared me, right, as being an able-bodied individual up until now, that scared the shit out of me. And now that I know that that is not always the trajectory for everybody. Is it a possibility? Sure. But is me walking outside and getting nailed by a car leaving my driveway also possible? Yeah. Like anything is possible. So it makes me feel better that there are still so much research is still being done into things to maybe even repair the damage that was done. Like that's not an option right now

for people with MS. There's no repairing. So you're just basically trying to control the damage, make it less frequent, make it not happen so that it prolongs your spans between your relapses and things like that and you don't have further progression, which is what causes like disability and symptoms and all those things. But, you know, hearing that there are studies being done on MS is a demyelinating disease. There's studies being done on remilination, which is like fixing the main issue of what's occurring in our bodies. So like just hearing those things makes me hopeful that, okay, like maybe in five years, 10 years, they might have something where something else to try in case this fails. And I just love the fact that you're like

optimistic for a future hope. I think that's so good. But I also think that there's a grief process through any type of diagnosis, right? Like you're walking through that grief and that fear and I think that I watched you do that and for anybody who is walking through any journey of any type of diagnosis like it is so important to have a support system around you that is cheering you on and telling you like and it's easy it's easier to say like Kristen don't be scared like just go to Mayo Clinic don't cancel your trip like it's easy for me to say that because I'm not facing it. Yeah.

But you're also logical, right? And like, that's what I appreciate from people because it's like a logical situation that's going on where someone who is not in the scenario is looking at the bigger picture and able to not have themselves inside of it to be like, okay, this makes sense. That makes sense. Maybe look into this. Like, that is super helpful. And that's, it's very interesting.

This experience has been crazy to me because I'm typically that person for everybody else i've never actually needed someone to be like anybody to be that for me so having that that was hard right like that role reversal was freaking hard and acknowledging that you needed like i needed help or i needed like just someone to talk to or things like that like that was a hard realization and like i am not superwoman i am not like it it doesn't it just anything can happen to you at any time and truly like the regrets that I have are like taking my health for granted before. But I think it was so hard to sit back and watch what I felt like was like a long process. It felt like it drug on from like day to day for a long period of time before you

got the diagnosis and just watching somebody with a personality. And I'm not saying that it like negate somebody else with like a different personality. So before anybody says that, I don't want it to come across that way. But to watch somebody who is such like a fixer and a doer to need to be fixed and be done for like was even harder. Yes. And it's it's like a hard realization to admit. My biggest thing is I don't ever want to be a burden to anybody. So feeling nobody made me feel that way, but feeling like I was a burden in any way, shape, or form and me accepting help to me was me being a burden. Now, I don't feel that way, but it just takes time is like the biggest thing that I can say as far as this individual about your mom, I would highly recommend looking up a neurologist

or an MS specialist in your area or reaching out to Mayo Clinic or all of the above for MS diagnosis. The only two ways to be diagnosed to my knowledge, I'm not a medical professional, but this is just what I've learned, are an MRI of your brain, neck, spine, and also and or a spinal tap because they check for something called O bands. The O stands for a long word. And they check for something like that. But my biggest issue was, and I'm grateful for it, I have a huge, huge, huge issue with needles. My neurologists knew that. Procedures scare me. I did not have to do the spinal tap for confirmation. So I was able to get the full set of MRIs done with and without contrast. They found the one singular lesion. A year later, I went in and they found many more lesions between my brain

and my spine. So that's my recommendation is get with a neurologist. It can take a bit of time. Look up MS. list in your area. If you can put in a request to go see Mayo Clinic, I had such a great experience there. I truly recommend them to anybody. That's what I would do. I know for a fact, Mayo Clinic has assistance, like financial assistance, if that is an issue, I was lucky enough that my insurance, I literally only had to pay a $40 co-pay to go to Mayo Clinic. I was blessed in that sense. I know that Kail and I have told you privately that we love you so much, but like, publicly I love you so much and I stand with you. I'm so thankful that you're willing to share your story for other people who have loved ones that are either walking through it or they're

waiting for a diagnosis or they are diagnosed. I think that really sharing your knowledge in all situations of life, like no matter what it is, I feel like that is so important because I do think that it resonates with a lot of people like when you share your experience. Definitely. And like I'm always down to answer questions. I know I'm not the most active on social media, but I, when I see it, I do respond. I don't claim to be medical professional by any means. I can just speak to my experience that the symptoms that I was having didn't make sense at the time. And then now it all makes sense. Like now it kind of all puts the pieces together. And all I can say is like outside of MS, just like don't take your health for granted. And I know

it's easier said than done. I also know that it's easy for life to get in the way. I know it's easy to put yourself last. But I promise you, it is absolutely not fucking worth it. Well, I love you so much. And on that note, thank you guys for always supporting our show. Please subscribe and review on the Apple Podcast app, follow and rate on Spotify, or listen wherever you get your pods. For our latest merch, visit www.comfospodcast.com to shop. Full video episodes are available on Kail's Patreon at www.com slash Kail Lowry. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and join our Facebook group to connect with us and our community.

We hope that you guys have the best week and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. This thing on? I'm Katelyn Bristow, host of Off the Vine podcast where I get real. Maybe a little too real sometimes with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor Franchise and Beyond. I'm talking guests like Jonathan Van Ness. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, and we're gonna get through it.

And so many more. So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions, and get a little vulnerable. because you know what we're all just floating on this weird little planet together follow rate and review off the vine podcast wherever you listen to your podcast