Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsie Chrisley - Why We Almost Walked Away From Coffee Convos

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

Kail and Lindsie have an honest conversation about the future of Coffee Convos and the moment they questioned whether they could continue. They open up about the personal challenges they’ve faced, the importance of protecting their mental health, and the boundaries they’re putting in place as they move forward. Together, they share what this new chapter means for their friendship, the podcast, and their listeners.Part 2 is available now on The Southern Tea.Get your Fatherless Behavior Tour Tickets hereFor full videos head to patreon.com/kaillowry Thank you for supporting our sponsors!SKIMS: Shop SKIMS Cotton, and all of our favorite pieces at https://skims.com/coffeeShopify: Shopify: Own your customer relationships. Own your revenue. Start with a free trial athttps://shopify.com/coffeeChime: Go to https://Chime.com/COFFEE. It only takes a few minutes tosign up.K12 Schools: See how K12 Powered Schools can help unlock your child’s full potential. Enroll online today at https://K12.com/coffeeconvosSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I hate gift giving and receiving. Receiving gifts is so weird. What do you say thank you? This is coffee convos with Kail Lowry and Lindsay Crisley. I really want you to be in your feels, Kail. That does not interest me whatsoever. I feel very attacked by you. A spirited discussion about motherhood, friendship, family, and life in the public eye.

I'm just not with the fakery anymore. There's a fakery bakery around here. Here's Kail and Lindsay. All right, you guys, we are back together for a long-awaited episode of coffee combos podcast. And it's no secret that I'm sitting next to Miss Lindsay Crisley. And we have a lot to talk about. We have a lot to catch you up on.

And I know that you guys were pretty upset with me last week for another episode without Lindsay. So we're here to address kind of everything from beginning to end. And then we really want to readjust, reformat, restructure coffee combos, you know, moving forward for the rest of the year. I think, well, first of all, good morning. Good morning. We're in Philadelphia.

I would love to come on here with great energy, but I feel like all of the things that we're about to discuss are very heavy topics, and that would just be completely inappropriate to act like it's funny. Oh, it's not funny. Nothing's funny about what's been going on in my life at all. To Kiel's point, we have had many discussions. on and off over the last couple of years on wanting to restructure the show, not really knowing how to do that. I have been completely off of all social media platforms. I am not reading comments.

They are not downloaded on my phone. If people are sending me messages, I'm not getting them. But Kail has shared some of the concerns and comments that you guys have been sending. And while I want to acknowledge the fact that we have truly built a community that I value so much, it has been so good for me to step away from the noise. I recognize that. So after last week's episode, I started commenting back to people as myself because I wanted them to know that you would be coming back on your own time and no amount of upset listeners would bring you back for any reason.

You need to do it on your own time and you need to be able to say everything that you want to say and me as well. I also want to say, I've said this before, but in case you didn't hear me or you weren't listening, I don't think that the things that have transpired this year in 2026 are the reason why we're doing this, right? Like I think it opened our eyes to what was already going on and to Lindsay's point. We've wanted to restructure and we acknowledge that there has been a lot of crossover and there's a lot of things that we wanted to, a lot of changes we wanted to make prior to this. but we weren't fully invested in doing that. We were kind of just kept putting it on the back burner.

And so this opened her eyes. And I think that we all needed this as a wake-up call as well. I also want people to understand while this is a form of entertainment for them, and we genuinely do love doing our job, it is a job and it is a career. And when you share so openly so many things about your personal life and your job, it can cause a lot of problems. And I do think the emotional state that I've been in over the last year, some of that has been from investing in what listeners are saying

or investing in what the Reddit folks are saying online and the conspiracy theories and all of the things. And we're constantly tagged for lack of transparency, for not discussing things timely. And I want people to understand that while again, this is a form of entertainment for you, this is our real lives. And if you're allowed to process things and your real lives, understand that we should be able to have that grace as well.

I would agree. I think that without getting too much into all the hate that we've received over the last few weeks, I was a little bit surprised by the amount of comments on last. week's episode about how you needed to get on and at least give listeners a heads up about if you're coming back, when you're coming back, or, and I, I don't agree. I think that if you don't want to listen and you're sick of hearing me without Lindsay, then don't listen. Like, I think that's okay. Both things can be true. Lindsay can come back on her own time and say what she wants to say in, you know, full context. And you guys also don't have to listen. That's okay, too. But I also,

want to be very clear because I think it's important for people to understand the dynamic of our relationship. You've been through a lot over the last year as well. With that being said, there were conversations about six weeks ago that Kale made a point as a friend to say, you need to take a step back and reevaluate in an emotional. get yourself right. And I think that's so fair and respectable. However, it wasn't a decision that I necessarily wanted to do. It was a decision that needed to be made. And I could not make that decision on my own. Well, I had chills because I also have a really hard time making decisions on my own. So sometimes you need somebody to give you that extra push. And so I do think that it was needed for sure.

I just think the the amount of things that have transpired in such a short period of time, if you really think about a, I mean, from January to now and we're in July. And the amount of things that have unfolded is just crazy. And it feels like it was just one thing after the next thing, after the next thing. And I feel like I could never truly get caught up. and I have taken the last five weeks to reflect on a lot of things. But none of it, you know, if we're going to talk about transparency too, like people were coming at my neck about all of this.

And I didn't have answers because truthfully, Lindsay and I didn't think this podcast would continue. We really, really considered not moving forward with Coffee Combos podcast at all. And that didn't have anything to do with the friendship. I think that there have just been so many things that have happened and listening to the noise and knowing that we want to make a change and knowing that we're not in the same place that we were 10 years ago when we started this podcast. How do you develop something like the community that we have developed over the last 10 years? it feels very scary to walk into another phase of life, to know, hey, guess what, it might not work out. But it's a change that we have to do. And I don't think either of us would have done it. If it would have been just you making the decision or just me, I don't, I think coffee convo's would be done.

It almost felt like over the last five weeks, and I'll say six weeks, maybe even longer, truly, not just since the most recent events, but just kind of over the last year. It was starting to feel like a complicated breakup. Those talks, like when you're going back and, like you don't want to let go, but it's not healthy to stay. And so we either have to make these changes or we don't move forward. And I did tell Lindsay last week because we were going to try to record this episode last week. And then it didn't pan out the way that we wanted it to. And no, we should be transparent about it.

Kale and I were in disagreement. I know that people saw, I don't think that Kail was paying attention. There was so much that was going on in the moment that people saw on your TikTok story or Facebook story that I was in Anaheim. And I think it's fair to acknowledge the fact that I was. I was at the venue for the date of that tour date.

However, I did not see any fans. I did not interact with any fans. They saw you. There was no intention of me doing that. I landed in Anaheim and agreed to meet Kail at the venue to have some conversations regarding the direction of this episode. And with other people that are now involved, we have somebody kind of on the back and now that is walking us through a lot of different things and helping us make the hard decisions

that we need to make. We were not completely aligned on the creative direction on how we wanted to address or what we wanted to do. And so because of that, there were very hard conversations, some nice words not shared, not the proudest moment for me, for sure. But I don't think that we would be sitting in this room now or if possibly ever if that didn't happen. I would agree with that. I would agree. I mean, it sucks. One of us was stone-faced and one of us was crying. Guess which one? Guess which one was which? Yeah. Cry baby kale. Cry baby kale was out here crying. Let's talk about skims for a second because I am exclusively only wearing skin. Bres and Pannies. Okay, I'm not joking. I'm not lying when I say it. You can check my LTC. You can check all the things. I'm obsessed with skims. But I want to specifically talk about skim's cotton pieces right now.

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But you can feel effortless but also put together depending on how you wear them. And I like to wear them with tanks, especially right now. I'm living in tanks this summer, especially in this Texas heat all week. So I'm obsessed. I brought every single skims cotton tank I have with me and I absolutely love them. So if this sounds like something that you would wear or you want to feel a part of, shop skims, cotton, and all of our favorite pieces at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you,

select podcast in the survey, and pick coffee combos in the drop-down menu that follows. I have taken probably the last four and a half weeks to sit down and write a statement. And I want to read it because I don't want anything to be missed or misinterpreted. So here we go. Over the last five years, I have experienced some of the most challenging, traumatic, and transformative moments of my life from family estrangement, from family estrangement, divorce, navigating legal matters to deeply personal challenges. Much of the last several years of my life have unfolded in ways that I could have never predicted and all under intense and ongoing scrutiny through a very public lens. I have faced

circumstances that have tested my strength, my relationships with people that I love and respect, and with God. My sense of self, my mental health, and well-being have been challenged in ways that cannot be measured. Through those experiences and unique challenges, I have learned that I can no longer do this alone or in silence. I've learned that I do not have to put on a brave face and pretend like all of these things aren't a giant weight that I carry. I sit back and reflect on everything that has happened and the choices that have brought me to today and know that I am committed to personal growth with the help and support system, even when the path at this point is unclear. While many people have seen headlines, public narratives, the reality is that

the last several years have been lived at a level of stress and uncertainty that most people do not live in a lifetime. Those experiences had led me to where I am now. I'm determined to be a stronger, more self-aware, resilient, accountable, and authentic person for those around me, my loved ones, and my child. As I move into this next chapter, my focus is not on revisiting what has brought me to this point, but on embracing what I have learned from it. I am grateful for the lessons, committed to continued growth, and looking forward to what lies ahead. I want to be clear that that statement is not about the DUI less safe alone. So I don't want somebody to hear that statement and say that that was too deep for a DUI less safe.

Okay? We're talking about collectively leading up to the moment of that. There have been things going on behind the scenes. obviously people know some of the tumultuous things that you've been through with David. Everything that you've been through has been publicized in ways that people can't imagine. And while people are going to say, well, you live your life in the public eye, I want to acknowledge the fact that we grew up in the public eye. And so it's really hard, even if we wanted to step away from it, people would still be,

well, where are they now? And so people would still dig. It wouldn't matter if we removed ourselves from the entirety of the, internet right now, people would still dig. In my situation, I've thought, and you know that I've had conversations about this many times that even if I stepped away, people still follow my family in the last name, and that's just the reality of the situation. So why would I do that to myself? Because I love what I do. No, I mean, I understand it. It's a complex juxtaposition that is very hard, think for people to understand or resonate with. And so I think that I just want to be clear that

people listening to this need to give you some grace because if they don't, if they've never lived it, they can't understand it. So to them, it might be like all of this is, you know, dramatic for the situation, but it's not because they have not lived in the public eye in this way. And while some people can understand certain parts of the story that we plan to dive into today that could have impacted their personal lives, they didn't have to experience it in a public forum. And we're allowed the grace and privacy to be able to navigate those things before speaking. And I think I've had to learn, and we've talked a little. lot about there's so much power and pausing. We've talked about that so many times. So it's

frustrating for me to, we preach that on the podcast, but when we do it, there's backlash. So we want to acknowledge that, you know, we understand that you guys wanted answers and you wanted answers before you got them, but it's not fair to expect her to give them. And it wasn't fair to expect me to give them because I wasn't there. I, it was, it's been frustrating. for me to watch because on one hand I'm like, come on Lindsay, we got to figure this out. But on the other side, it's like people can wait. And I think before we really get into the nitty gritty, I had decided to take Jackson on a beach trip during my time off.

And you and Becky, I believe it might have been, was it your first show? Yeah. face-time me. And I was at dinner eating oysters. Jackson was playing in the bay, catching fish. We were having a great time. And I want people to understand that by no means am I trying to escape reality of things that have transpired, but also I'm allowed to take the time to do the things that I need to do to heal. Also, that's your child. And it's the summertime. and y'all should have been, I am very confused by the backlash of you being at the beach with your son. I don't understand it.

And the fact that I answered a FaceTime from Becky at any given moment regardless of what I'm going through, chances are if you FaceTime me or Becky FaceTime me, I would immediately answer. And I was just sitting eating oysters. And the next thing I know, it's, you know, potentially she's, you know, potentially she's, in our rehab or, you know, I mean, you should have seen some of the theories that were going on about where I was because I just disappeared off of the face of the earth. And it's like, no, I am taking time to make changes in my life that need to be made and to positively direct myself and reflect. If I would have thought that that was a bad idea or even thought about the backlash,

I would have told her not to call you, but I genuinely didn't know that there would have been anything wrong with that. And I know that you had announced, you know, that I wasn't going to be on tour. And I think that that needs to be addressed a little bit too because I think your words were spun from a solo episode that you released that, you know, I was no longer going to be going on tour. and then you see headlines of Lindsay fired from tour. If I would have gone on any tour dates prior to addressing this audience in this way or coming back to either of the podcast, right, people would say, oh, well, she's just screwing off. She's screwing around. She's having a good time.

She's not taking anything seriously. How do you win? You can't. But I will also say every single tour date that I've had to this point, people ask about you. Is Lindsay coming back? How is she doing? Is she okay? Send us, send her love.

Send our love to Lindsay. I have chills because every single show, there are, I don't want to make this whole episode about all the trolls and the haters that are talking shit regardless because I don't want them as listeners if they're just going to talk shit anyways. So I want to address the people who have shown love and grace and support through all of this because they understand that you're human. They understand that two things can be true. You can take time off from work in the podcast and you can go live your life with your son and be a mom and be Lindsay Christley outside of the podcast as well.

So I don't want to make this all about the trolls. I don't. You have had more support at every single tour stop that I have had than all these people talking shit on Reddit. And I can assure you of that. So this is for all of the people who have shown love at every tour stop and every person who has sent me messages and comments about. about, you know, just checking in, I hope Lindsay's okay. We'll be listening and ready when she comes back. We're going to stick this through.

We can't wait to hear from Lindsay. So those are the people that I want to give our energy to. Those are the people that I want to explain things to. Everybody else on Reddit, y'all can go fuck yourselves. Y'all can go fuck yourselves because life, lives. And like I said, both things can be true. You can have fucked up moments in your life and also go to the fucking beach. Not me crying and giggling at the same time.

It's funny, but it's not. but it's like it's frustrating because you what would everybody else do right like you live your life in a in a public setting and in a public way and this is all we know so it's easy to say oh then quit it but this is our livelihood this is not just a side gig right like this isn't and so some people clock in nine to five and some people do a podcast and some people don't live off alimony and child support right like everybody's different respect it move on if you don't like it don't fucking listen and the people who want to rock with us and want to rock with you will stay through the restructure, reformat and everything that we have planned for this podcast. Okay. So if you haven't been on

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you're about to do. And I'm telling you, it is so easy for us to just get on there, do what we have to do. And I think I can speak for you guys in the audience, too. If you've ever purchased something from CoffeeCombos Podcast.com. you know it's super easy to just buy. And there's less abandoned carts in Shopify. Okay, I know that firsthand because some of the websites that I purchased from are through Shopify, and I absolutely love that. So if this sounds like something that you're about to do, maybe you're going to take a risk and start a business or you want to do a new website or maybe your platform isn't working for you and you're ready to switch over. Check out Shopify. And you guys can start your free trial at

Shopify.com slash coffee. Again, that's a free trial at Shopify.com. dot com slash coffee. Don't miss this. Go start your free trial at shopify.com slash coffee. So Kiel and I have someone new in our life who's helping us navigate some of, we're in a thruple. We're in a thruffle now. Helping us navigate some of these changes. And these changes are kind of simultaneously coming along with my absence, which has been a little bit challenging, but I don't know if we would have made the decision to make the changes if I wouldn't have been, if one of us wouldn't have been absent, I don't know that we would have, I think we would have continued to rock the same way that we were rocking. Yeah, and it can't continue. Like I said in the

beginning, this opened our eyes to deeper issues. And we do want to make the majority of our listeners happy because I think most of our listenership supports us, right? We hear you, we're reading the constructive criticism. We are thankful for the constructive criticism. And we, we, want to, you know, all of this in 2026 has opened our eyes to the progress and the elevation that we need to execute this for coffee combos to make it continue to be successful and to continue to move forward and not to go back. We don't want to do the breadcrumbing anymore. We don't want to talk about something and then it's kind of, you know, we're not being fully honest about it. We want to talk about topics in real time. We don't want to have stale content and everyone

and get frustrated about what we're saying and talk about toxic things and baby daddies and ex-husbands. We want to talk about the father of our children in respectful ways and when it's relevant and healthy and maybe helpful to somebody that's listening, right? We want to make good choices, but along the way, you have to understand that we are still human and we're going to probably make mistakes still, even with a new structure and a new format. I really loved what was said to us that, you know, thanks for riding with us to this point. If you don't like it, get off. That's okay.

It's okay. I don't think that it is constructive for a community, for someone or some people to constantly breed negativity. We all don't have to like each other. You don't have to like me. If you like Kiel and you don't like, like me. She has a solo show. It's called Barely Famous. Check it out. If you don't like me and you like Lindsay, go to Southern Tea. Like there are options here. And that's not to say we're not grateful

for our listenership, but I think the ones that are so hateful about the criticism is we don't need that. You can be respectful and you can give feedback. And I have seen a lot of good constructive feedback where it's like, hey, long time supporter, here's what I like, here's what I don't like. And they're super respectful about it. And those are the people I want to listen to because they're the people that are truly wanting to see us elevate ourselves. And I think over the years of the show, there's been many times that Keel and I have been at odds or disagreement regarding direction, right? And I think we both finally have come to the same place to say, hey, yes, these are the changes that we need to make. These are the things that we

need to let go because they no longer serve us. These are the things that really worked that people loved, that we need to heed that warning and get back to it. Those are the things that I want to focus on moving forward. I don't think it serves us to your point to continue to give in to anything that is negative. No. I think for the last, probably over a year, we have continuously, and probably every week at some point

addressed the trolls, the haters, the negativity, but we never acknowledge the positive. And I think that I want this recording today will be coffee combos and the Southern Tea, so part one, part two situation, right? And then secondarily to that, everything that's stated on this podcast and part one, part two, I never want to address it again.

I also feel like sometimes, and I had this conversation when we were in Anaheim, that regardless of what we do, right, like we could go out and say the truth and post documents, and we've done it before, right? And people are still going to find a hole somewhere in there. And so sometimes you have to get to a point that it's not, worthy of certain addressing because we know what the truth is. Right. You know, and we have to, we have to rock with knowing that that is the truth.

And I also want to be very clear that we're not coming and sitting down on this podcast today in a fake manner because Kail and I have had many disagreements over the last five weeks. It kind of reached ahead last week and made a, what I would say is split second decision to come and do this recording in Philly with the intent of knowing that we are going to be doing a full rebrand and a full restructure, but we also had several episodes from when Kale was in Atlanta, several episodes when we were at the Webbies. We've been together a lot over the past couple of months, and all of those things were banked. There was also a two-part series, if you will, that we recorded the last time that I was in Delaware that we've held on to regarding my relationship post the cheating or the attempt to cheat, I guess.

We held on to that because I didn't know where I mentally was and then events happened after that that I said, hey, we just need to like press pause on this. And so sometimes there are things that we are recording that you guys don't even know that we're recording and that we're holding on to them so that it's authentic in that moment of time. And then we hold onto it and then we can release it. And that is that is the plan. So in a nutshell, we have five episodes for Coffee Convo's podcast that were recorded prior to Memorial Day weekend in May. So the nature of the business is that Lindsay and I. paid for these episodes to be recorded. I flew to Atlanta. She flew to New York. So money was spent.

Lots of money was spent on those episodes. We hope that you'll listen to them because I think you and I were in a good place for all those episodes. So I think that those should still be aired. But just know that they are, they were pre-recorded in May, all five of them. And we're going to still release them. After those five episodes release, we, the sixth episode will be a completely new format of Coffee Combos Podcast. Coffee Cobbo's podcast may not even be called CoffeeCombos podcast. We are still not fully aligned on whether or not we're renaming the podcast itself or not. We don't drink coffee. I mean, I do. She doesn't. And so far up until this point, we have not been safe for work. And I don't think that these are really coffee conversations. So we'll see.

That's to be decided. But like I said, after those five episodes that were pre-recorded, we will have the sixth new, fresh format for you guys. I mean, I'm excited for it to come, but I think anytime that there's change, some people deal with change better than others, right? And for sure. I am very much a creature of habit. So change is scary, and I think people can apply this to their real lives. Like sometimes change is the scariest thing that you can do, but the most necessary thing that you can do for your life. And I think, too, just as like a disclaimer, maybe.

with the changes, stick with it for a little bit. And if you decide it's not for you, that's okay. But give us a chance to make those changes execute them before you give up on us. I think that's my only request here is that, you know, with the changes and the new structure and the new format, that you just give us a chance before you decide it's not for you. Because it will be new to us, too. Like everything that we're doing moving forward, it will be new for us. And so it'll take us a little while to get into the swing of things. If you guys remember when Lindsay and I first started podcast, podcasting in 2017, it was awkward at first. We didn't know how to read ads and we didn't know how to, we didn't even know each other before we signed those business contracts. So I think if you could,

if you could stick with us through that, you can stick with us through this. I agree. I'm excited for it, honestly. But you and I also had a conversation that this podcast is no longer for us to come on here and just, you know, I guess the word I use. is just pussy foot, like, pussy foot around stuff. Like, if we're going to do something, then we need to come with our whole chest to do it. And if not, then we need to leave it at home. I agree. I don't want to breadcrum.

I don't want to bring up things we can't talk about. I want to only talk about things that I can talk about in full, you know, context and disclosure, anything else. And if I'm not ready, I'm not breadcrumming. I'm not doing that. We're getting closer and closer to back to school. And a new school year means a fresh start for families that are looking for a new path to help their child succeed, K-12 could be the perfect fit. K-12-powered schools offer tuition-free,

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Enroll online today at k-12.com slash coffee combos. That's the letter K, the number 12.com slash coffee combos. K-12.com slash coffee combos. As you guys all know, Kristen was a very deep part of my life for probably 11, 12 years. I mean, people around me started questioning behaviors and questioning decisions to the point that I started digging. I sent an email to Kristen on January 16, 2026, with questions and information to her directly to her. questioning certain things and did not get a response. I did not get a reply. And three days later, January 19th, 2026, Lindsay, actually, you got an email before I did, or before I saw my inbox.

Lindsay got an email with a resignation. I got a personal email with a resignation. And Coffee Combo's email got a letter of resignation. No questions in my previous. email from January 16th, which Lindsay was not C-Ced on. I wasn't privy to that. No, because it was personal to me. It was information related to my life and my businesses and things like that. I did not get a response to any of the questions that were asked. You and I were in communication about things that were going on, but I also didn't have a

Rebecca. Like you already had somebody that was kind of like. in place to help you pick up the pieces or, you know, put things back together, really. Put things back together, essentially. I didn't have that. So I had to take time to hire somebody. So I was a little behind where you were. And truly it has taken from January until literally last week for me to get into a place that I feel comfortable.

and stable might not be the right word, but somewhat stable. Like, I know I can stand on my two feet now. And I don't think that people necessarily, I think they have an idea of what our relationships looked like with her, but I don't think that they understand how deep those relationships went. This was not like a business surface relationship. This was not just a surface friendship. this was what, and I'm going to say it for myself, this is what felt like a lifeline to me.

I would agree with you. I mean, and I want to address one comment, and I've seen it a couple times, but somewhere along the same lines of how we probably treat her was, treated her was awful, we probably overworked her and underpaid her. Kristen was paid very, very well. And in fact, to your point about Rebecca, I hired Rebecca as an assistant to my assistant. assistant. Rebecca was originally hired for Kristen and working directly with Kristen for Kristen for extra tasks, for extra work that Kristen was had. And at any point and on multiple points over the last

four or five years, I kept telling, it was like pulling teeth for me to hire somebody for Kristen because she kept taking things. She would not say no. She would not say, I can't do this. I'm overwhelmed. She wouldn't say it. And I would constantly tell her, I have to hire someone because things are falling through the cracks. You're, you can't do it all. You're one person. So I want that to be said. From January until now, I recovered the email that I was paying for her to use for kaleowry.com and discovered that she was working with Lindsay's parents behind our backs. And I found emails of that in her, in her email. And so if that tells you any type of betrayal on the friendship part, but also on the business part because what do you mean you're using hours that we pay you for

either personally for our individual brands or coffee combos podcast but you're emailing lindsay's parents or not lindsay's parents you're emailing you're emailing on business hours to assist lindsay's parents um for whatever reason that may be and while we don't know the intricacies i guess of that relationship, it is not speculation that there was, in fact, some type of relationship. Absolutely. I just hate the situation because I really loved her. I still struggle with that. Some of the girls that work with me, and I don't like to say for me because that makes me feel

weird. Gives me the ick. Some of the girls that work with me have. shared screenshots of conversations that they would have about me. And some of the things that Kristen would say about me while smiling in my face and acting like everything was fine and acting like she had my back. And one of the last things I texted her and I'll read it. Just so you guys can understand, on March 9th, 2026, I said, Kristen, some of the things

you've said about me over the years in text, I'm sick to my stomach. understand why did you hate me like these texts are so aggressive I just want to know why no response i'll share something that I sent on January the 28th hey I'm really struggling I just want to know why for everything this greatly hurts my heart and I need to know the reasoning from everything that I've found um I was introduced to Kristen um she she was assisting Kale when we started coffee convo's podcast, and that's the first time I met Kristen. She was still filming for teen mom,

and it took a little bit of time for me to hire her after that. I think it was several years, and I remember it's kind of weird because the conversation that you and I had about hiring Kristen for coffee convo's was in Philadelphia. Really? Yeah. See, I don't remember that.

I don't have any memory of that. In a hotel room. The Ritz? Were we staying at the Ritz? No, I literally don't remember. It's so weird how I remember certain things and not others. And I took Kiel to my room because Kristen was in hers because they would regularly share hotels. And I was kind of like the odd ball out.

I said, can we have a conversation in my room? And that was the discussion that we had about hiring her on. and it was hard for me because I think Kail was probably ready for somebody to come on sooner than I was, but I didn't want to relinquish any type of control. And I thought that, you know, she had the best interest. When she started working with me, I was just going through divorce. My parents had just been indicted. she was working with me through their federal trial, through their sentencing, through the

prison stint, through multiple breakups, through arguments with my ex-husband. If there was any reason for her to leave and not work for us anymore, that was always okay. And in fact, I had asked her several times over the years, hey, like, should I find somebody else? You know, I don't want this to affect our friendship. So maybe I need to find somebody else. Hey, do you think we should hire somebody else so that we can take things off your plate? And so I'm not saying that I'm innocent, but I will say that, you know, people quit their jobs all the time. People quit their jobs all the time.

I will say this. I'm ready to move on from the Kristen of it all, but I want to say this. One silver lining that I have, I've looked at it as a silver lining. Some people may not agree, and in fact, several people in my life don't agree. The Kristen of it all and her leaving and resigning, and we're not only affected by that. Alessandra and Kayla have been affected by that. Rebecca has been immensely affected by that. But I pray for Rebecca every day.

Rebecca is an anomaly of a human. But I say that to say, I'm sure there was some level of weight off of Alessandra and Kayla's shoulders to come to me and to come clean about all of the conversations that they participated in about me because of the dynamic that was set up. And you and I have shared information with each other about things that we've said. And so all of that has kind of come to light. And I appreciate that. That's similar to when Becky and I became friends again. She came to me with, here's what I said. I don't want you to hear it from anyone else. I want you to hear it from me. And if we're going to move forward with this friendship and this

relationship, then you need to know what was said so you're not surprised later. Does that mean it didn't hurt? No. But at least we know. But at least it's honest. Oh, I'm sorry. At least it's honest. And I'm going to wrap this up and we're going to move on to another topic. But I I want people to understand that there's always a silver line in everything. And while we're struggling, I also feel like we're deeply healing. And I hope Kristen is too, to be honest. I hope whatever piece that she was apparently looking for, I hope she got it. I do.

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No minimum balance required. For more information on APY rates, My pay, SpotMe, and Travel perks. Go to chime.com slash disclosures. Moving on from that, we're going to kind of walk down memory lane because if I am correct in my thinking, I think after this episode, it will be the two part of what we recorded in Delaware based off of the order of the way we recorded everything. And that was regarding my relationship with David.

Kail and I sat down and walked through a lot of things, and I very much was struggling at that time because this was shortly after the alleged cheating allegations, right? And so, you know, similar to the situation with Kristen, it's very hard for me to just cut people off. and I've said that on, you know, the podcast for years, that I have a really, really hard time of just letting something go. When I've invested time, I've invested energy, I've invested emotions. So I wasn't ready to let that relationship go at that time of that recording, but I also didn't know what to do.

And I also was so focused on, oh, my gosh, the public knows about this and how will we ever recover from this? And if we do try to recover from it, will anyone respect me because I've gone back to somebody who on a video and photo attempted to cheat on me? There were concerns that were brought up regarding my son and what was the best thing for him. And, you know, am I being a good mother because he's being involved? I want it to be very clear before I address anything. further from this. My son has not been involved and was not involved with that person for many, many months when all of these things were going on. So they had not had a relationship at that time?

Correct. So you were kind of going back and forth, but he was not involved. Correct. I essentially had a relationship on a 2-25 parenting plan is essentially what it was. So when I didn't have him, then I was, you know, hanging out with him and when I did, I wasn't. Okay. Okay. I mean, I didn't know that, so that cleared the air for me. It's hurtful when people question your ability to parent based off of human decisions that you're making. And these decisions that I made did not come lightly. And I've very much self-reflected and know that some of the decisions that I made were not the right ones. I feel like they felt right.

to me in that moment. I was afraid to let go because I didn't know what would happen if I did. I want to be very clear that I recorded these two episodes with Kiel in Delaware and came home and immediately went to him. I had a hard time with that. What you guys don't know about, and maybe we talked about it in the episodes, I don't remember because so much has transpired, but I had asked you to please extend your trip in Delaware. I didn't want you to go home.

And so literally, I think it was the next day. It was. The next day. And I walk into the content house and Alessandra is there. I think Rebecca was there. I think I was recording barely famous all day. So I think I had like three or four recordings that day. And I was devastated.

like was trying to get a flight to Atlanta to come like what help was I don't know if I was going to be it but I just was trying to get to you and um I carry a lot of guilt for that too because I'm like fuck like if you would have just fucking listened to me if you would but but if it wasn't then it would have been a different time and I think that's also scary to me to think about and I I look back on it too with self-reflecting, and I've shared with Alessandra that I should have just stayed. If I would have stayed in Delaware, then that event wouldn't have happened,

but then also I probably should listen to my closest friends and heed the warnings that they're putting out without coming directly to me and saying, I don't feel good about this. It's hard for me in the position that I'm in because I've been in it. I've been in a situation in a relationship on and off for five years just, you know, in similar ways. And unless you've been in an abusive relationship, whether it is, you know, you have succumbed to reactive abuse or just one-sided, whatever it looks like. It is so much easier said than done to get out of it.

And it's so much easier. The comments that I have read about, well, you kept going back, meaning you, or you put yourself in this position, or you're not a good mom because of this, we're sickening to me because it's more mental and emotional than it is the physical side of it. And if you could just get out, you would. And so it's upsetting to me that, I mean, I don't want anyone else to experience any amount of abuse. I mean, I have been on both sides of it, right? And it's not okay, but you can't speak on it. But for me, it's like I wanted to support you through it, but I knew no matter what I said,

you were going to do what you were going to do. No amount of begging you to stay in Delaware, no amount of me trying to get to Atlanta, no amount of anything was going to change whatever it is that you want. Because when you are in a toxic relationship, in order to get out of it, you have to hit a wall, and you have to be the one to do that. It can't be somebody else telling you.

That's just the way it goes. You have to learn the hard way, unfortunately, and it's sad that it's that way, but I haven't figured out another way yet. The sad reality, and I've shared this with you privately, is that, and it's embarrassing for me to say this, but I don't know if I would have ever called to a child, attempt to get help or to do anything.

If he didn't? Yeah. And I think that maybe a lot of people don't know that I wasn't the caller. I was the runner. I ran and I went home and I took a shower and I wanted to go to bed because I thought to myself, I will be okay and I'll wake up and it'll be a new day. And little did I know things were going to unfold in the manner that they unfolded. I did not freely give information to anybody until I was directly asked and examined.

Even though I was in such a fragile state in that moment, I still defended him. and I don't regret that because I don't think that that's a character issue for me. I think the loyalty that was there, I'm proud of myself for the loyalty, but disappointed in myself for not defending myself. You did defend yourself. No, in regards to the actual action, yes, I defended myself in that. But the fact that I somewhat was willing to halfway fall on that. the sword so that he didn't have to go through what he was about to go through alone,

disappoints me. You can't. I mean, my ex did what he did to me. I called the police and then I turned around and hired him attorney to get out of it. That is the cycle of abusive relationships. That is, you are not, you know, the only person that, yes, I understand the feelings of that, but you have to understand that this is not, these are the types of relationships. Nobody can understand them, right?

Like, I don't even know that experts can explain them. So you have to give yourself some grace. Unless you have been in a similar situation, and I don't want anybody to have to understand, but unless you have been in a similar situation, you will not understand. After those events transpired, my dog was taken from me. I attempted to get him back, actually, the night of the arrest.

I was told that I could get him back. And then David said that it was a civil issue and, you know, I could file something. And so he stated it was a civil issue. And I want to be careful with the word abuse. But when you are in any situation relationally that someone feels like they are going. to lose a sense of control over you. They will find a way to control you. And that's what the dog was for me.

And it felt like it was still like a little part of me that he still could control. It wasn't necessarily about the dog. It just felt like a part of me was lingering out there that he had access to that I no longer wanted him to have access to. Can I also just say too that it's incredibly complex because just because of the cheating scandal or the DV or the dog or any, that doesn't mean that you just stop loving somebody. That doesn't mean that those feelings just go away. That's not how that works. And it's extremely complex because you're also working through that part of it, right?

And a level of conditioning. 1,000 percent, but I think that that is something that, you know, again, we have to give you some grace in that because while I do think that the relationship itself was toxic at times, regardless of any DV or abuse on any end, whatever that looked like, there was love there. Definitely. And I do think both of those things can be true. I just wanted the dog back because it felt like that was like the loose end that needed to close that chapter. Like, hey, you actually have zero access to any part of me anymore.

And so you don't have any access to any part of me anymore. And for whatever reason, that's what I needed to just close the door. and so you know there was a court hearing the date after you left Atlanta that was one of the hardest things that I think that

that I've ever done and I shared a little piece of that on the Southern Tea that how do you go from going on dates with someone being in constant communication with them

sleeping with them every night to sitting across a courtroom from them and it feeling that cold. It's like it's a stranger that you never knew. And so, you know, I know a lot of people had questions as well regarding this situation of, you know, I filed a protective order. I did do that on the civil front. However, when... Wait, what does that mean? What does it mean on the civil front?

So because there was an arrest, with an arrest, you would have bond conditions. Those bond conditions actually act as a restraining order or protective order. Civilly to protect myself because those bond conditions did not include certain aspects of things that I wanted to be included. I filed that civilly. Not until the day before court was my attorney served with a counter protection order. It was just very interesting to me and honestly helped heal a little part of me because I'm like, you know, you've been out of jail for weeks at this point and you wait until the day before you go to court and now you need a protection order. you've been out of jail for weeks.

I immediately followed mine prior to him ever being released. That feels, I'm sorry. I don't want to speak out of turn, but I do think that feels, that feels from my end, a little retaliatory. Very much so. And so, like, whether that was an attorney tactic,

whatever it was, it didn't move the needle for me. Because I know what, It's true. And I know for a fact that if I was scared of somebody and it had gone as far as what it went, I wouldn't wait for three weeks to file something. All right, y'all, we're going to pause our conversation here, but this is not the end of it. The rest of the conversation will continue over on the Southern Tea, where we pick up right where we left off from our time together in Philly. Please be sure to head over there and listen to Part 2.

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