Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 134: Scathing Atheist, Cartomancer Edition

Episode Date: January 20, 2014

Cody’s video: Special thanks to for donating 5 shirts!

Want to stream Cognitive Dissonance to your Android or iPhone? Buy the app. Go to DissonancePod.com and click on the link on the right-hand side of the page. Each purchase helps support the show. Hey, Tom. Hey, Cecil. This is Jairus from Chicago Skeptics. You know, we were just wondering why you never come to Skeptic Camp Chicago. And at first we thought it was because, you know, you don't like going to skeptical meetings,

to listening to presentations by skeptics to skeptics, to getting all that kind of information and being around all those kinds of people. But then you raised a bunch of money and you even threatened to drink eggnog just to get people to send you to town. Well, so that can't be it. So then you figured maybe it was you just didn't like the people who were going to be speaking. I mean, Skeptic Camp is not a, you know, a professional thing where we hire speakers. It's Chicago skeptics talking to each other. People from around Chicago and Chicago area who come in just to talk about something you're interested in. People like Aubrey Henry, people like Jeff Swagg, people like Bob Blazkowicz.

Oh, but wait. You had Bob Blazkowicz on your show after you raved so much about how much you enjoyed listening to him speak at camp. So that can't be it. So what is your deal? You just hate Ireland so much that you won't come to the Irish American Heritage Center? Are you just saying I'm washing your hair all day on April 5th? Come on, guys. What's the deal? Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended.

The explicit tag is there for a reason. This is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. To any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political. And there is no welcome mat. This is episode 134 of Cognitive Dissonance. Not to be confused with 133, which was the prior episode, and which, until I changed the notes, I think you were trying to fuck with me again, Cece.

We'd never do that. It's not going to work, my friend. I would never do that. I think you were trying to fuck with me again, CeCe. We'd never do that. It's not going to work, my friend. I would never do that. I'm on your games. That's not what I do. I'm a very, very nice person. I don't know what you're talking about. That is not true.

Yeah. And when Noah did the reading for us, he did not pick out the fool card. So we're going to have Noah Lusions from the Scathing Atheists podcast on, and he's going to do a tarot reading for us later in the show. So the first thing we want to talk about is actually an email that we received from Sarah. Sarah sent us an email going through a whole shit ton of 2013 predictions. And it turns out none of them were right, but all of them were interesting and kind of hilarious. They were kind of funny.

So we thought it would be fun to go through that email and look at some 2014 predictions as well. Yeah, I love this email. Sarah did such a great job on this. She went through, and we talked about this last year, so there was a bunch of different things that were mentioned in a story we put up last year about 2013 predictions. She went through and basically looked through all those different predictions and then decided whether or not they were a pass or a fail. So some of these are great, like Facebook will start a search engine and seriously challenge Google.

Fail. Spain's economy will fall apart. You don't need to be a psychic to predict that. France will want to come out of the Euro. Fail. You know, like in this one, it's like Yvette Cooper will replace Ed Milibrand as the leader of the Labor Party. What?

What? What is happening? What are you talking about? The Duke of Edinburgh dies unexpectedly. The Duke of Edinburgh. That's the Queen's dad or whatever, right? I like her comment, though, because he says, fail. He's been hospitalized several times, but is still going somehow.

Somehow. I like that, yeah. This is great, though. There's so many good ones in here. Kate Middleton will announce her pregnancy in May. She announced it in December of 2012. So the person's like clearly not involved

in it. That's awesome. I like this one. Europe to start an advertisement free search engine called BBC Focus. Fail. And then in parentheses. And why would the EU name something after the BBC?

Second Revolution in China started in June. China breaks into separate nations with Mongolia taking the lead. Fail, quote, or parentheses, epic fail as Mongolia isn't part of China. This is great, though. Thank you, Sarah, for sending in. And it's very funny. She put a huge list of these and went through a lot of time

basically finding out whether or not these things were true or not. There's one in here that says Mylene, and it's spelled M-Y-L-E-E-N-E. I think that's Mylene Kloss announces she's in a new relationship. I thought Mylene Kloss was like a type of plastic. Anyway, Mylene Kloss announces she's in a new relationship. She puts, surprisingly, given her D-list celebrity status, this seems to be a failing too based on my Googling of her.

So she actually went through all this trouble, like find out. I don't even know. Like I would have to Google who that is because I have no idea who she even is. Yeah. No fucking. She's a D list. Like British celebrity. How the fuck would I know who she is?

Oh my God. That that is is we are as far removed. First of all, Americans don't care about anything outside of America. No, we're not allowed to. It's actually in our constitution. So we're not we don't care about anything outside of America. No, absolutely not. We're not allowed to. It's actually in our Constitution. So we don't give a shit. You could have a fucking A-list celebrity in Britain. You could have an A-list celebrity in Britain catch on fire on your news,

and nobody here would notice. Right, right. You know, like Downton Abbey could all catch on fire at the same time. Is that a British show, or that just like people making fun of? It's an American show, I think. It's like Americans making fun of Britons, isn't it? Right. I don't know.

Is it making fun of or is it a drama? No, I don't know that show. That's a comedy. It's got to be a comedy. Is it? No, I don't know. I have no idea. I've never seen it.

It's on PBS, isn't it? I don't know anything about it. It's like on PBS. I have reached by saying the name of it. This is like sports for me, Cecil. Everything is like sports for you. You don't know anything about anything. Don't delve too deeply or I come up short.

That's awesome. Well, by the way, we got a 2014 link as well about world psychic predictions from Sarah. And we're looking through it. And some of these are just awesome. The first one, Dalai Lama will be taken seriously ill. He will announce his next incarnation will be a Westerner. The dude is 78 years old. I think that's a pretty safe bet.

I know, right? Can't you just be like, that dude's old. He may die. You don't have to be a psychic for that. You just have to be a fucking human. And his predictions in 2014, I think, are actually even easier. Like, he's really softballing all of these things. You know, like, most of these are, like, New Orleans will flood again.

Eh, it could happen. Sure. I mean, it's very fucking likely. Yeah, it's under sea level, so it's pretty fucking likely. You know, like, if New Orleans floods, it's a tragedy level so it's so likely you know like if new orleans floods it's a tragedy but it's not a surprising tragedy right right you're just like huh it's like when my basement floods oh my fucking photo albums fuck i totally should have put the new sump pump in your basement smells way better than new orleans that's for sure

some of these though like here's the thing that I don't understand about these things. And maybe there's a listener out there who used to read these and understands these and could actually enlighten me. What the fuck is the purpose of these things?

Because it's not like a specific warning. If he says something like, and he does, gunman rampage in Kansas City, Missouri, USA. There will be a similar attack by gunmen on the London Underground, which is quickly brought under control.

Okay, so there's two locations you're giving for a gunman attack. What, am I just supposed to avoid the London Underground all year? Am I supposed to avoid Kansas City if I live in Kansas City? Or live in Kansas? Am I just going to be like, I can't go there anymore. Because if I do, I might get shot. Is that the best that this thing can offer? Because all the rest of this stuff is useless garbage.

It's like massive fire in Mexico City sees poor areas of the city completely destroyed. Well, my first guess is that the people who are Mexican and live in a poor area are not reading this, so they can't even take this advice. Their internet access is not perfect. They can't even act on this advice. But secondly, it's like, well, what? Okay, I guess I will stay out of the poor areas of Mexico for the rest of this year or something.

Like, what's the purpose of these things? Well, now I can cancel my trip to the poor areas of Mexico City. Right. You know? And now I'm not going to go on that whirlwind tour of Kansas City, Missouri. Yeah. Or New Orleans. Yeah. Right. I was going to take on that whirlwind tour of Kansas City, Missouri. Yeah, yeah. Or New Orleans, yeah. Right.

I was going to take the boat tour of New Orleans. You just bring an inflatable raft when you go. And just wait. And just wait in the middle of the street. Do you have anything? As soon as it starts raining, you just take it out of your backpack and start blowing it up. Start quickly collecting animals, put them in your raft. Right.

It's just rats yeah it's just full of rats it's just rats the alligators will come later and it's like it's like rats and like what do they call those women like bar flies or whatever lounge lizards or whatever this one cracks me up a strange luminous plankton is seen under the sea c is spelled wrong yeah it is the wrong c that cannot be explained by scientists okay this may be linked to a strange cosmic event such as a stella explosion and light in the sky that changes animal behavior patterns i have to admire that one cecil because it's so specific and it contains so many elements it's not just that a plankton photo fucking synthetic plankton or whatever like a bio photo plankton or something is going to appear it's that it can't be explained so if we

just have a big fucking photo plankton event it doesn't count camp if it if it's explained by scientists it's fucked it doesn't count there's so many elements for this to be true and then animal behavior patterns have to be changed which animals what patterns right there's a lot of animals cecil there. There are. Like, are we talking about, like, dung beetles will start, like, rolling the ball backwards? Like, what's the fucking animal behavior pattern? My favorite part of that, though, is

it says, such as a stellar explosion in the sky, and I'm thinking, is it like Marlon Brando going, stellar! Stellar! Like, is that what it is? Because I think what he means to say is a stellar explosion. No, it's a Stella explosion. It's actually going to be like...

Oh, he's just from Jersey. That's a Stella explosion. It's a Stella explosion. No, it's actually just going to be like a pilsner just raining down. It's like, oh, it's kind of refreshing out here. It's a little hoppy. I like that. I like that. That's pretty good. If one animal behavior pattern changes,

Cecil, my vote is for carnivorous zebra. That's my vote. I want... Scare the shit out of the lions, wouldn't it? In the name of Jesus, we speak that. Oh, Ramana. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No NewsOK.com. Oklahoma clergyman says license plate is an affront to his religion. Fuck you, dude. I guess this guy's pissed off because Oklahoma has the Tootsie Pop Indian shooting the arrow at the star. And he's upset he didn't win a free Tootsie Pop, I think.

I think that's the whole. Once in all many licks it takes. Yeah. Got to get to the center of that fucking anger there, big guy. If that's an affront to this guy's religion, what isn't an affront to this guy's religion? Is he mad that like a Mercedes symbol looks like a peace symbol too? Right. This is a guy who only smiles sideways.

Yeah. So he clearly can't be trusted. Look at that picture. It is awesome picture. His smile is perfectly horizontal. It's like a level. You could put a level on that thing. it's like a level you could put a level on that thing well this is i i think too you know that if he's mad at that then he must really be pissed off at the jeep grand cherokee

he must hate that yeah he actually couldn't he turned down a scholarship to the university of illinois because of the chief yeah because yeah yeah absolutely because you're fighting illini and how dare this guy say this in Oklahoma? Yeah, no kidding. Of all places, right? Like, Oklahoma is where, like, the federal government, like, said, oh, this is the worst land in America. This is the shittiest place we could send you. It's like, it basically is populated with snakes and rocks.

Like, that's it. And tornadoes. like tornadoes and tornadoes like do you have anything in the way of a dust bowl i might be able to enjoy oh yeah welcome to oklahoma it's ruined it's fucking ridiculous and he's upset because uh this image of the indian he just decided the ind is praying. The Indian's a picture. It's not a real Indian. If you don't see it doing something, it's not doing that thing. It's true. You cannot intuit the thoughts of a thing with no brain.

It is altogether right to discriminate against homosexual behavior. I'm arguing that it's time that we as conservatives, that we rehabilitate the word discriminate, that we reclaim it, that we dust it off, and that we use it, and that we use it unapologetically. And I believe we need to begin to say, look, it is altogether right for a rational culture to discriminate against homosexual behavior.

So this story comes from rightwingwatch.org. U.S. conservative groups supported Nigerian anti-gay law that led to wave of arrests. This is actually kind of a follow-up to a story that we covered previously. And Cecil, one of the things that we were asking about was how do they figure out, how do they determine who the homosexuals are? They're going to be subject to these draconian laws. And this asks and answers that question. Yeah. It says police working off a list of 168 purported suspects obtained through torture are arresting dozens of gay men in Nigeria's northern Bauchi. I don't know if that's the right way to say.

State human rights activists said Tuesday. So that means that they are specifically beating it out of people. So, you know, that's a great way to get information. Now, the validity of that information may or may not be true, but it's a good way to get information. Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Yeah.

I mean, look, you, you can be out of somebody, a fucking unified theory. Yeah. It'll be wrong. Sure.

They will come up with one. Like, I'll tell you what, like you hook up the electrodes to my testicles and all of a sudden I start doing calculus. I don't get any of the numbers right, but I start doing it. Like we are going to get this done, motherfucker.

It's fine. Like, you want me to come up with a perpetual motion machine? No problem. Waterboard me for three minutes. I will fucking tell you that I have one in my garage. Exactly. Yeah, I think that this is exactly what is wrong with something like that, is that first off, you're making something illegal that shouldn't be illegal. It's a human rights violation.

I would say in every civilized country, it's a human rights violation. But beyond that, you're basically saying that these people are less than human. But beyond that, you're basically saying that these people are less than human. You're allowing them to be tortured because you don't care. You clearly don't care about them. You were going to put them to death until the world said, hey, that's really fucking repulsive. And they're like, OK, fine, we'll just put them in jail forever then. But they're still repulsive enough where we can beat them and torture them and get information out of them. And the worst part about this is the end of this article, Tom, where they're talking about what happened when our government started standing up for the rights of homosexuals in other countries. It says the religious right exploded in anger. Pat Robertson called the policy appalling and warned of God's wrath in response. Radio host Janet Murford, Murford, Murford, whatever her name is. I think you had it. I think I nailed it. I think you were right there. I nailed it. Murford, Murford, Murford, Murford, whatever her name is. I think you had it. I think I nailed it.

I think you were right there. I nailed it. Murford. She cited Nigeria's anti-gay laws in a rant against Obama administration policy saying, I don't see this. I don't see that this is something that the United States has to jump on because it's such a huge global tragedy. It's crazy.

United States has to jump on because it's such a huge global tragedy. It's crazy. So that specifically these people are mad that people in this current administration are looking down on this and think this is a bad idea. When people want to wash their hands of this and say, oh, well, it's another country. It's their choice. Not only is it fucking awful because it's just awful in general to do this to people, but also it's being influenced by people in this country where it is a problem where we should be. You know, we shouldn't be over there meddling, first of all, but then also we shouldn't be exporting our hate over there either. And you can't discriminate. The government can't say you're a good religion. You're a good religion you're a bad religion and i don't know if you know what the difference is here please educate is that not intended to be seated your feet and i think that's not anti-christian that's how this whole movement started with with this attack who decides what religion is only one really in some of our out there being anti-semitic and

they had a religion and they called it whatever and they want to put their statue up it's got a bit but either you have all religions are not you No, no, because it's against another religion. Christianity isn't against another religion. They're not out to get a cross. The chemicals aren't promoting anything. That's why you should not have religious artifacts on public property.

We don't need conflations. All right, Bernie, what do you think? He's making a moral equivalence between Satanism and evil. No, I'm saying Satanism and evil. lot of people have a business cell which is a good religion and a difficult to hear what the line has to say if you have a lot of your own top of the fact that i'll stop and then you can clarify well you're making a moral equivalence between uh... say

christianity promotes things good for the most part and i know all the religions and say to the which which is is promotes the most part, and all other religions, and Satanism, which promotes evil. Not a good role model. They should be able to put the statue up, and then they should be shot right next to it, and then we take it down. So violence is a way of dealing with it. You're advocating violence against people with religious beliefs

that you don't agree with. Can't slip anything past Alan Combs. I'm advocating violence. We can start there with violence. So this next story isn't so much a story as it is a clip. And this is from YouTube. But it's actually from Fox News. It's one of their crazy shows, evidently led entirely by Beethoven's ghost.

I thought it was Phyllis Diller. Beethoven's ghost. I thought it was Phyllis Diller. As soon as they switched the camera over to that guy, I was like, holy shit, I'm watching Amadeus. What's going on? He has one of those huge, his hair is the craziest shit. We're talking about Don Imus, by the way, who at this point looks like, he kind of has a Mick Jagger face, which means he looks like Italian luggage. He's kind of got these crazy – he's got a droop face. Not so finely crafted, my friend.

He has a droop face. I mean, everything on his face at this point is subject to the laws of gravity, and his hair is somehow not subject to those same laws. That hair is fucking epic. And I'll tell you what, if I had had that hair i wouldn't cut and people still hired me yeah people still took me seriously i i don't understand how you can show up for work as a public personality looking like that i don't know somebody doesn't say oh no he's gonna have a lot of yes men around him you would think somebody would just give him a sandwich and send him back outside.

Oh, man, he looks great. Here you go. Go on now. He looks great. Get out. Not in here. The thrust of this you've already heard because I played the audio for you, but specifically this guy, Alan Combs is the only one in this entire group that is making any sense. Basically his argument is if you put up a statue, we talked

about this before, if you put up a statue for one religion, you have to allow statues for every religion. The argument on the other side, there's two arguments that I could parse out. One is, well, that's not true because Satanism is actually against Christianity, so you can't have a religion. Evidently, I didn't realize this until this blonde woman spoke up. You can't have a religion that's against another religion. It's just not allowed. So anybody who thought at one point that the Muslims and the Christians didn't get along, that's not true. Just not a true statement. And the other statement that I think we could parse out of this is what they need to do is take the Satanists, let them take a picture with their statue, and then we need to shoot them and kill them. Yeah, well, that's because that's a Christian charitable sort of a thing to do.

Right. What the fuck? Why would you say that out loud? You know, like at some point somebody just has to reign this guy in and be like, and then Alan Combs calls him on it and is like, he's like, so you're advocating violence. And the guy's like, yes, I am advocating violence. I'm glad that you caught what I was doing.

What I am doing is advocating violence. Like, he fucking did not shy away from his comment. He didn't say like, oh, it was a little bit of hyperbole. You know, I was just exaggerating for a fact. Oh, hum, hum, hum. Instead, he was like, yes, I would like to fucking shoot people. I would like to fucking shoot people. I would like to murder people. And the thing is, none of these people on the show, Tom, and we've been chastised and

castigated about this constantly, about how we don't understand what Satanism is. We do understand what Satanism is. We know that it's not just anti-Christian. We know that there are people who don't believe in God that want to have a free life. I mean, there's a hedonist track, and then there's just like a live your life carpe diem sort of track. We understand the concept barely, enough to casually know what it is. But the thing is, these people think that Satan is sacrifice babies. Like that's what these people think. Yeah.

They think that it's actually the war. Like they think of it like in the Norwegian death metal. Sure. Or like fucking the movie, like Rosemary's baby or something. Right. Right. Because they think there's really Satan. Because they think there's really Rosemary's baby.

The thing is like Satanists by and large don't think there's really rosemary's baby the thing is like satanists by and large don't think there's really like a really a satan like satan has become like a symbolic thing for most of this made up fucking jib jab but i mean these guys are upset they're like well this is an opposition i just want to be like all monotheistic religions are necessarily and definitionally mutually exclusive of all other monotheistic religions nobody fucking hell are you talking nobody gets that i'm always shocked it's like you know i but the thing is is like we had this conversation and you could go back all the way to episode eight i think it is where we had the conversation about the sex goddess i don't know if you remember but there was like a fire goddess or whatever.

Yeah. And we were just baffled. We're like, how the fuck do you sit and tell your congregation that China or Japan or whatever had sex with a sun goddess or a fire goddess? Because nobody there really cares about what's really in that book. They're just there. You know what that book. They're just there. You know what I mean? They're just there because everybody else is there.

There's not a moment where, and I think you said something like, they're not there to have a thoughtful moment. It's so true. It's like nobody's going to be like, wait a minute, pastor. I thought we believed in one God. Wait a minute. Did you just say goddess? I don't think there's a such thing as a goddess.

You know what I mean? Nobody's going to say that from the answer. They're going to be like, yeah, those Japanese, they love their goddesses. And you'd say goddess? I don't think there's a such thing as a goddess. You know what I mean? Nobody's going to say that from the audience. They're going to be like, yeah, those Japanese, they love their goddesses. And you'd be like, wait, what? Did you guys all miss the memo about the Jehovah up there, the dude? He's like the single guy. Like it's like one guy, mono. It's in the title.

But, you know, that's because part of it is that they think that – I think I really do believe this, That's because part of it is that they think that – I think – I really do believe this, that people are upset when other people believe in different gods because there's an idea sort of embedded that if they believe in a god, it gives life to that god. That that god exists somehow. Like the belief – like in an American god sort of Neil Gaiman sense. Sure, yeah. That the belief in a God is what forms it and although they would say like, I don't worship that God, I think they're worried that other people

do because it makes that other God real, because if it didn't make the other God real, it wouldn't make any difference it would be like if somebody said like, yeah well I believe I've got a Volvo on my head and you'd be like well you don't have a Volvo on your head. You don't have a Volvo on your head. I would only be worried about that if I was like, fuck, you can't think that or a Volvo will crush you.

So we're going to take a break and then we're going to come back. Want to get in touch with the show? Send an email to dissonance.podcast at gmail.com. Be sure to follow the show on Twitter. Our Twitter handle is at dissonance underscore pod. Like the podcast page on Facebook at facebook.com forward slash dissonance pod, or just type cognitive dissonance into the Facebook search bar. Want your voice featured on our show? Leave a short message on our Google Voice at 740-74-DOUBT. That's 740-743-6828. Visit DissonancePod.com to see the news stories featured

in the show, buy apps and merchandise, or just leave a comment. And to everyone who helps spread the word about the show by sharing it, tweeting it, and rating it on iTunes, Glory Hole, you fucking rock. This story is from RichardDawkins.net. X-ray reveals hundreds of gold needles in woman's knees. This is pretty much what it sounds like. There is an X-ray which reveals hundreds of acupuncture needles intentionally left in a 65-year-old South Korean woman who had been diagnosed with osteoarthritis. She wasn't getting any relief from the standard regimen of anti-inflammatory drugs and pain relievers. She went to an acupuncturist who put a whole bunch of needles

in her and just left them there. What the fuck? Just left them there, man. Like fucking gold worms under your skin. Yeah. It's gotta be hell for her to travel. Could you imagine? They just keep on waving the goddamn fucking wand over her knees and it keeps going off.

God damn it. Lady, do you have a fucking metal knee no i didn't have any knee replacement surgery this sucks though because i mean you look here it just looks like basically somebody took a bunch of staples and put them in somebody's leg you know and the thing is like i'm sure these needles are i mean just look at it like they look hair thin like they look super super thin which is nice because that way they'll be really hard to get out yeah like really really really hard to get out and at least there's fucking so many of them and they're gold so they're non-magnetic so

what the fuck like how these are just fucking forever there now like she now has forever i wonder if forever needles i wonder if like every time she walks they're like re-tearing the area there oh you know the the body is just gonna like start to wall these things off that's what the body i mean the body tends to do that with foreign objects it's like fuck what's that fucking wall it off it's just gonna like create scar tissue and like microscarring around the area. But if they're sharp little needles, they could puncture shit. They could migrate. They could fucking move around.

There's no therapeutic benefit to hundreds of skinny little needles in an old lady's leg. I do believe that atheists are parasites in the sense they're benefiting from everything that religious culture is built in America, but they're doing nothing to add energy into the system. So this story comes from the raw story. Catholic publisher fights militant atheism with book blaming disbelief on bad fathers. Well, Cecil, the reason that people become atheists is in large part due to the psychology of atheism, according to Catholic psychologist Paul C. Witts. And one of his arguments in here is that we basically all have daddy issues. You know, we have poor relationships with our fathers that make it difficult for us to form relationships with God. make it difficult for us to form relationships with God. Well, he's right because he says absentee fathers are blamed for turning their kids an atheist.

My dad is definitively an absentee father. Definitively. Oh, shit. So, I mean, I can't disagree with the guy. My dad's an absentee. He's been an absentee at this point since 2008. So, I mean, that's a, you know, I've been seeing the guy and geez, what is that, Tom? We're 2014 now. Gosh, it's been six years.

I haven't seen him. Absentee father. How unbelievable. And that's what turned you into an atheist. It is. It is. Although I could just go open the box with his ashes in it and look at him. But I don't know if that's the same thing.

Well, actually, are the ashes with you? Like, where are the ashes at? They're at my mom's house. Oh, well, I mean, does he ever call? She never puts the phone up to the box. No, she doesn't. Well, how would you know if she did? Maybe he's always on the other line.

Hold on, Dan wants to talk to you, and she, like, shakes the box. Maybe he's always on the other line. Dan wants to talk to you, and she shakes the box. She sends you the most depressing homemade snow globe. It looks like the road. That's awesome. This guy is great. One of the things he says in this is so funny because he's like, the rise of evangelical militant fundamentalist atheism. Evangelical means according to the Christian religion. Don't you understand what atheism is?

No, he does not. Words are not his strong suit here. No, he does not. Words are not his strong suit here. You know, I thought psychology has long past moved on the blame it on mom and dad. Like, that's some fucking antiquated shit, but I guess antiquated thinking is kind of to be expected from a Catholic. You got a point there. You know, like, I was first thinking, I was like, God, man, I mean, fucking psychology has moved on. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe it hasn't.

Maybe it hasn't. We're still fucking, we're still talking about a goddamn North Star coming down out of the sky and a fucking, giving somebody frankincense and myrrh for crying out loud. Go to your store. Go to 7-Eleven and pick up some myrrh. Yeah, what do you have in myrrh over? Is there like a myrrh aisle?

Do you have the latest brands of frankincense? I'd love to get some frankincense. Yeah. You can get Frankenberry, but it's not the same. It's not the same. I'm going to bring. It tastes better, though. That's for sure.

I want to say, I want to read what this atheist blogger wrote because I think it's very funny. Atheist blogger JT Eberhard recently reviewed the book and noted how strange it was for me to learn since I have a spectacular relationship with my father and consider him the most admirable man I've ever known, or at least thought I did. Who knew that moral commandments like killing everybody who works on a particular day, Exodus 35, 2, and stories of someone living inside the belly of a fish for three days were perfectly reasonable, which I would see if only my relationship with my father were better. Or maybe Paul Vitz is a sham looking to cash in on confirming the prejudice of other Christians. And I love the line, that last line. And it's so true, right?

I mean, there's this, you know, we are the other to them at this point. Vocal atheists at this point, and David Silverman is one of those people out there in the forefront. Sam Harris is one of those people out in the forefront. Christopher Hitchens, before he died, was one of those people out in the forefront. Christopher Hitchens, before he died, was one of those people out in the forefront. And they're getting notoriety for the atheist movement, saying there's more atheists out there than you think. These people, they want to cash in on that because, you know, as Neil deGrasse Tyson said, even if he's not saying it, even if it's taken out of context, religion is an ever-decreasing pocket of scientific ignorance. And they are just at this point, you know, huddling around their Bibles,

hoping someone will come by and chase the scary atheists away. Well, right, man. And every movement has a counter-movement, and they're just cashing in on that. Yeah. I mean, that's all. It's book sales, man. It's fucking book sales.

Atheism is a sexy topic right now. It is. Which is why we're part of it. Yeah, oh yeah sexy you want answers i think i'm entitled you want answers i want the truth you can't handle the truth so the story comes from the daily mail chin chin why chin chin why it says chin chin i don't know you're in drinking hindu cult but who? I'm going to pause. Hold on. Who writes?

Who fucking who at the Daily Mail writes the headlines? Because this headline is like 25 word headline. It's pretty long. It's crazy. It's the whole article. The headline is not the article. You just fucking bolded everything. Fucking control B.

Chin Chin. You just fucking bolded everything. Fucking Control-B. Chin Chin. Urine-drinking Hindu cult believes a warm cup before sunrise straight from a virgin cow heals cancer and followers are queuing up to try it. That was the fucking headline of that story. That's a pretty long headline. You pretty much described the entire article. pretty much describe the entire article and then in case you're like fucking clinically stupid underneath it there are two bullet points which i will read for you hindu believers regard the cow

as a holy animal and say her urine has divine healing properties in the north indian city of agra dozens gather at the cow shelter of didi, whatever, to have a fresh glass of cow urine. And my first thought was, well, I'm glad it's a fresh glass. It's got to be a fresh glass. It's got to be warm. It's got to be warm. God. If it's not warm, it's not fresh.

Wait a minute. This doesn't taste like virgin cow. This tastes like Red Bull. I'll take like virgin cow this tastes like red bull how do we i'll take the virgin cow so uh fucking a virgin cow really like we're worried about like if the cow gets fucked now yeah oh yeah like we're that concerned like that's gonna sully the cow and then your cancer cells will be like fuck fuck, we have to die. There's fucking cow urine. And then be like, no, the cow got fucked.

So carry on, my wayward sons. If the cow got fucked, you're fucked. Yeah, right? That's the way it works. What is this exactly? This is like just basically getting a wheatgrass shot and cutting out the barista. Oh, God. I will say the photos are not safe for life.

They are something. You know, when I saw this, first off, bravo for using glass around this. You know what I mean? Because this seems like a dangerous place to put a glass, especially because almost certainly somebody's going to try to drink this and drop it. But then, wouldn't you think you'd have to be kind of, I don't know, a little bit nimble on your feet just in case they start pissing? Because it's not like you lift up their tail and that's the tapper. You know what I mean? It's like, you've got to wait for them to go. So you're just standing around with a cup, waiting for them to piss, and then you're like,

oh, they're going! And then you got to kind of dive in there and get the urine. Cecil, you got to pump the tail. That's how it works. It's like a keg. But if you pump it too much, it gets real frothy. Yeah, no, you get the brownie then, though, too. I got to tell you, man, and I don't

think I'm, I don't value my life that much. I just don't value my life that much. I just don't. You would rather die. I don't – like if somebody was like, yeah, here you go. Got to hang out by this cow and wait for it to piss. Here's your glass. And when that warm fucking body temperature fucking animal urine exits, you got to fucking pound that thing. I'd be like, I'm good with it.

I will take my chances. Yeah. I'll just, everyone's got to die. And I'm not going out with fucking cow urine breath. I'm just not. I don't value my life that much. You could just tell. I mean, it's like pouring right out of the goddamn cow.

And the dude's like filling it up like he's got a face filling up of goddamn Stella. You know what I mean? He's just like, here we go. Bud light. It's on tap. Oh, I think I'd rather have the cow urine. So we're here with Noah Lutions from the Scathing Atheist podcast. Noah was gracious enough to contact us after our, I don't know if it was a bashing,

but we certainly talked a little bit about tarot cards one time. And Noah said, hey, I could give you guys a tarot card reading. And we thought it would be fun to have Noah come on and give us about tarot cards one time and Noah said, hey, I could give you guys a tarot card reading. And we thought it would be fun to have Noah come on and give us a tarot card reading because I have no idea what to expect. So Noah, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming back. Hey, thanks for having me again. I thought after that first time I'd burn the bridge.

I thought the poem did it. You know, the hard part about having Noah on to do this is we had to shuffle the cards and then fly back and then, you know, that's what takes so fucking long to plan these things. That's what listeners don't appreciate. Right. You know, is you got to lay your hands on those cards to get your shuffle energy into them.

Absolutely. I could have mailed them to you, but we did it and we did it in person. Yeah. Well, you got to get a reach around in there, too, while you're at it. No, I'll tell you what. Now, you joke about it, but yes, the magic shuffling energy I don't think is going to affect the reading. But doing it over Skype does affect it. A ton of reading tarot, I don't care what anybody tells you, is reading the body language, reading the expression on the other guy's face, et cetera.

And not having that to cue in on is actually going to make it a little bit more difficult. I'm no Miss Cleo. I can't do it over the phone necessarily. Well, wait a minute. What about if you lay your hands on your screen and we turn on the video thing and then we can connect like televangelists? That's just an excuse for you

to put your penis in the camera, Tom. I don't need an excuse. My penis starts in the camera and it stays in the camera. Alright, Noah, so my pants are on my ankles. I'm ready to go when you are. Read this out. Body language.

That is not what she said, but... No, I'll tell you what, we can do it audially. It is a shame to miss out on some of the artwork on these cards. That is the reason I still have them after all these years, because the artwork is absolutely beautiful on them. But like I said, I can try to miss Cleo it here for you guys. So wait a minute, you said you have them after all these years, because they are, the artwork is absolutely beautiful on them. But like I said, I can, I can try to miss Cleo at here for you guys. So wait a minute. You said you have them after all the, while you still have them after all these years.

Is this something you used to be into like before, like you didn't buy them as a joke. Like this was something that you, that you know how to do because why? Because you took an interest in it. What was, what's the story behind your knowing to do that, knowing how to do this? You know, I was mired in, I was never really religious, but I was mired in woo for quite a while. I got my first deck of tarot cards when I was 14 years old and started reading them really honestly as a way to meet chicks. Yeah. Like a great way to open up there.

But, you know, it's one of these things where, you know, look, I never read a book called How to Fake People into Thinking You're Psychic, How to Pretend that You're Reading Tarot, How to Do Cold Reading. I read books that claimed that the tarot were mystical portals into another spiritual dimension of symbology. And even reading that crap, I managed to sort of teach myself the tricks of cold reading. You know, I managed to, mostly because I think whoever you're reading for Tarot 4 wants so much for it to be magic, wants so much for you to be magic, wants so much for you to be right, that they just pump your ego up

and they make you think you're doing something you're not doing. So it becomes this sort of self-reinforcing feedback loop of bullshit. Yeah, well, they're not telling you when you get it wrong. They're just kind of going, eh, they probably won't say anything. But if you get something right, then they're really excited and you're really excited. And so they're remembering the hits, forgetting the misses.

And everybody, well, I don't know. I don't want to say that everybody benefits, but everybody at least feels good about it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's important to realize that when people say that they're reading tarot, it's not necessarily that you're dealing with a charlatan. It's just as easy to fool yourself as it is to fool the guy across the table. Sure.

Yeah, man. Everybody wants it to work, right? Like, if I can trick myself into thinking, and I'm not fucking around, if I can trick myself into thinking that I have magic powers, I would take all of the magic powers. I mean, I would trick myself into thinking, because why not? Like, if I really think that I am a guy who is one of the few chosen to have this special ability to read people's minds, I mean, that sounds badass. That sounds feckin' fantastic. Who doesn't want that? Everybody wants that. And by extension, you also want me to have those magic powers, because even if it doesn't mean that you have them, it means that you could. It means that they're there. I can validate this spiritual world that you would prefer to live in.

But can you validate parking? You know, Tarot don't really help much with that. Honestly, they don't help much with anything. I guess they're as good for validating parking as anything else. But like I say, it's something that I did for years and years, occasionally for money, but mostly just for my friends. And for a long time, I think, for years, I tried to convince myself that there was something there. And eventually, my skepticism just got the better of me. I started to try to quantify it, you know, see how much am I

really getting right? How much am I really getting wrong? And boy, when you start to measure it, the illusion falls apart in a hurry. So I want to tell our listeners so that they're not mixed up at all, that we are not doing this for money. This is purely for sexual favors. So there's no money involved. There is a lot of lubrication, however. That's why I didn't just mail the cards to you. Alright, so now normally what I would do here, I have a whole little bullshit thing where the shuffle, like I show you the cards all really quick and I tell you

that they're now registered in your subconscious memory and you mix them up, but you're kind of subconsciously putting the ones you like the most to the top. But that's bullshit and you would have known that anyway, so we can skip through that. I've actually already selected the cards here. But here, I'll tell you what.

We'll give a shuffle sound here. Oh, I love that. Shuffle sound. I like that. It sounds like a shuffle. I actually felt a little jolt of magic. Awesome, awesome. We'll do it again, see if you feel another jolt.

Actually, I think that's Noah goosing you from afar. I think that's what that is. Just a penis. Yes, but I was shuffling the penis. It was a complete rock. Alright, so now, again, like I said, you definitely suffer from not being able to look the person in the eye that you're reading tarot for, but I'm just

going to stereotype you guys. If I was in a position where I'm going to do a tarot reading, and two guys of about your age came in, regardless of what I read on your faces, if you didn't have dreadlocks, I would assume you were going to be pretty skeptical of this whole thing. If we didn't have dreadlocks. So I would give you my skeptical preamble to tarot, where I completely divorce myself from any kind of expectation or outcome. So I can't possibly lose. What I'll say is something along the lines of, you know, at first I'll downplay your expectations. I'll say, you know, hey,

I'm not Miss Cleo. I'm not going to be able to tell you that the fat man only wants you for your money. I'm not going to be able to tell you how many grandkids you're going to have or, you know, what day you're going to die in of what. What I am going to be able to do, and here's where I lay on the Deepak Chopra level bullshit, is help you reflect on your own life and look deeply enough at the present that maybe we can glimpse the future. I love that. That's great. I love that. I feel like buying stocks and bonds from you right now. Now, if you saw this sort of skeptical look on either of our faces, would you say something like, I know you guys probably don't think this is real and you probably aren't in touch with this, but if you guys really do give this your best effort, this will be the best reading you can get or something. Would you try to pump it up like that, like put the onus on me? Absolutely.

And the way I'm going to do that is I'm going to make it a partnership between the two of us. I'm going to tell you, you know, look, these, these are just cards. These are just ink on paper. There's no magic here. What they are is they're, they're universal symbols. They're symbols of archetypes that we all deal with. And what the symbols mean to you might not be what they mean to me.

So I want you to engage. I want this to be a conversation. If there's a symbol on the card that stands out to you, let me know. If there's a question you have as you look at the image, let me know. And now, yeah, exactly. I've put the onus on you. If the reading's not good, it's because you fucked it up. Because you suck.

You're also saying, like, feed me cold reading material. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Because rule number one is they want you to be right. Rule number two is get them talking because people will tell you everything. And then you just turn around and tell it back to them and they think you're psychic. I mean, and I'm not talking about like Sherlock Holmes-ing out the details or anything.

I'm saying they'll tell you they have two kids and be surprised later when you know they have two kids. You know, they completely forget what they tell you. Oh, absolutely. Happens constantly. I've heard psychics say that or skeptics that have played psychics say that before. I would love to see a tape of somebody mention, yeah, I got two kids and a wife, whatever. And then later on, somebody's like, yeah, you got two kids and a wife. And they'll be like, holy shit, that's amazing.

I'll tell you what, what's really fun, and I've actually gotten a chance to see this a couple of times, watch somebody, like you send somebody to a tarot card reader or a psychic and have them tape it surreptitiously. Then before they've listened to the tape, ask them how it went. And they'll say, oh, it was amazing, it was amazing. And then they play the tape back for them, and then they start to see it. Oh my God, I told him that. That's awesome. I'll tell you what, that's one of the greatest expressions

the human face can make right there. All right. So I've peeled off the top nine cards here. Now, I actually did select these randomly, but I did it earlier in the day. So I know exactly what's coming. I'm still going to act like I don't though. All right. That's cool. Yeah. I'm acting like I'm impressed. So go ahead. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. This will work out well. Symbiotic relationship after all. Now, we're going to do, this is kind of probably the most common tarot spread. It's called the Celtic Cross Spread. Anyone who's seen a tarot spread done has probably seen this one. Five cards arranged in sort of a plus sign.

Four cards along one side. Now, I'm going to go through it a lot quicker than I would normally go through it, because let's face it, when you know it's all bullshit, it's nowhere near as fun. It's not fun anymore. You've sucked the fun out of it. Exactly, exactly. Is this reading for Cecil or for both of us? This is going to be a reading for both you guys. I thought about doing just a reading for cognitive dissonance in general, but I'm going to do a reading kind of for both you guys, kind of for cognitive dissonance.

The less specific I am going in, the easier it's going to be. The first step in a tarot reading is choosing a card for the person you're reading called your querent. That's not just a gay joke, by the way. That's really the term they use. It sounds like one, though. Well, our podcast does feature a glory hole, so I think that that totally fits. Yeah, well, unfortunately, I was looking for an image that has sort of a glory hole image

to use as your querent card, the card to represent you guys. Couldn't find it. So instead, I chose two cards, one to represent each of you. So Cecil, you're going to be the Prince of Disks. Princes represent air, discs represent earth. So this is sort of like the intellectual affirmation that hard work will pay off even if it isn't paying off now. That's sort of the theme of that card. It's an image of a naked dude. Pretty much everybody in this deck is naked, riding a chariot behind a bull. There's seed all around him, so there's a lot of gay jokes available here as well. I think you're pronouncing dicks wrong, Noah.

That's the Prince of Dicks, right? Yeah, I think he is too. He's got a lisp. Wait until we get to a card that's a wand. Seriously, there's going to be 10 cards in this reading. If we don't see an actual phallic symbol in the deck, I'll be surprised. By the way, if anybody's playing along at home, I'm using the Alistair Crowley Thoth deck. And I would strongly encourage your listeners, if they're near a computer, to actually take a look at some of the images on Google.

Just Google the Thoth deck, T-H-O-T-H. Because, like I said, it is absolutely beautiful artwork. And maybe you can kind of get your bearings on some of these cards as I described. So Cecil, you're the Prince of Disks. Tom, you're going to be the Prince of Swords. This is actually probably my favorite card in the entire deck. Shows a green and black silhouette of a dude. And his chariot is sort of like a tetrahedron riding along on cross sections of watermelons.

Trust me, it looks cool. Watermelons? You got watermelons. Trust me, it looks cool. Watermelons? You got watermelons on your shoes. It's awesome. Yeah, it's a little bit weird. And in front of his chariot, pulling his chariot, he has three little miniature versions of himself. They're tied to the chariot but not reined in.

So the symbol here is a psychic that's being torn in a number of directions and therefore having trouble going in any one direction. All right. Not trying going in any one direction. All right. Not trying to make any comments here. These are the querent cards. These cards aren't actually interpreted as part of the reading. We just use them later to refer back to

if we run out of bullshit in the cards that actually come from the reading. It's like reserve bullshit. Yeah, exactly. It's like your reserve chute. It also doesn't work, and you're still fucked. Now, here's another place where I usually get a little cold reading material, too. Normally, I'll choose like three or four cards and hand them to you and say, which one of these would you like to represent you?

And that's going to say a little bit about yourself there as well. Another way of getting a little bit of pre-information. another way of getting a little bit of pre-information. And before we start, I want to kind of nip this in the bud, because I know there's going to be people listening to this episode that feel differently about tarot than me. Their first line of defense is going to be to say, he's doing it wrong. If you've got a real tarot card reader out there,

he would do it right, the results would be different. That's bullshit. Until you can show me some like objective metric by which you can measure the efficacy of tarot and you can show me that it's you know repeatable in a independent laboratories that yes they're 84 more effective if you read inversions and cards you know just shut up about talking doing it right or doing it wrong there's no right way to do it it's all bullshit it's like feng shui it's like there's no fucking way that you can quantify feng shui it's just some guy saying that fucking dresser looks better in the corner right exactly it's interior yeah it's like when you send the guy the the same guy to 14 different

astrologers and they all say different stuff you know well exactly stars in the same position so at any rate let's say we going to go through these cards pretty quickly because, like I said, it's not too much fun when you know it's bullshit. So the first card is the crossing card. This card's going to represent the nemesis in this reading. Nemesis. Yeah, it sounds cool. Is it Pat Robertson?

No, the devil card is in here somewhere, but it didn't come out for that one. So we've got the nine of discs, actually. This is the card of gain. So while you guys do a podcast, gain is definitely your nemesis. Normally... So weight gain is definitely your nemesis. So normally the discs represent wealth, or at least some material object. But since we're doing sort of a reading for cognitive dissonance,

we're going to let them represent the goal of the show, to bring about a more rational world. So We're going to let them represent, you know, the goal of the show. It's to bring about a more rational world. So we're going to let discs represent rationality, sort of the currency of the skeptical world. And that's our nemesis for this. You guys are battling against irrational thought. Now we move on to the past influences card. Now this is a favorite tactic of mine.

By the second card, you have to start to build a narrative and you don't know what cards are coming most of the time. So you have to be able to throw out a little bit of bullshit while you're thinking about it. So allow me to give you a lot of no information real quick as I turn over the Emperor. This is a major Arcana card. There are 22 of these in the deck.

This is the fifth one, but it's numbered four because there is a number zero, and it's the first card in the deck that is completely influenced by the element of fire. This is on first. Sounds like something was said there, doesn't it?

This feels legitimate. Alright, so basically the image that I want to draw of the emperor, the main image is an emperor. They're not too creative with their names here, but there's in the background here we've got two mountain goats. That's going to be you two guys. And the mountain goats, when you think of these mountain goats, these guys look like they're bouncing from one little tiny ledge to another, fighting over little scraps of food, being brave,

being bold. But in the foreground, you have a domesticated goat, and he's kind of holding a flag of surrender here. So basically, the emperor represents those things that kowtow us, those things that reduce us, those things that we give up to make things easier. Now, again, if we're going to call the discs that we saw in Gain, if we're going to call those the currency of skepticism, then this is going to represent those things that lead us down that path of irrationality. It's going to represent religion, bad education, pseudoscience, those things that stand against reason because they're easier. It's easier to just spread the Facebook meme rather than checking to see if it's true. So that's the past influence. That's sort of what brought us to the point of the nemesis. Now we go to the future influences card.

Oh, this is the one I'm interested in. Come on. Yeah. All right. I'll take a fuck about the past. I'll tell you the past. I don't need you. There are some dick joke potential, a little bit of dick joke potential on this one.

This is the Six of Wands. This one is also represented or also controlled by the element of fire, and it represents a perfect balance. In each of the numeric cards, going one to ten, each suit represents an element. The wands represent fire, the discs represent earth, the swords air, the cups water. And each one sort of tells a story from one to ten. One being sort of the first manifestation of that element. Ten being the corruption of that element. What happens when you have too much of it. The six always represents sort of the perfection of it. The balance of that element. For the Kabbalists out there, this is the Tifereth position. Again, it's bullshit. It's real

bullshit. You can look it up. It just doesn't mean anything to you now. It makes me sound like I know what I'm doing. But so this is going to be our goal. Our future influence is the concept of a complete victory, a balanced victory in this war against irrationality. I'm guessing that maybe that's an impossible goal. The fact that terrorist cards still exist and are sold is kind of backing me up on it. But we're going to call that our goal. Our future influence is the promise of victory. Again, remember.

I'll settle for a Stitcher Award. How's that? Oh, you know, I meant to congratulate you guys on me not getting nominated for a Stitcher Award. You got this cold. Who the fuck ever heard of fresh air? Yeah, no one will hurry. No one will possibly vote for that. Oh my God.

Noah, we looked at her page. She has like 112,000 likes on Facebook. Jesus Christ. That's like getting prison raped by Terry Gross. I'm expecting her concession speech at any moment. If you're going to get prison raped, let's face it, Terry Gross. You could do worse than Terry Gross. She'd be asking too many questions during it.

So tell me, just get on with the prison raping, please. I don't want to talk about it. Is this the first time you've done a prison nude scene? Yeah, yeah. All right, so we're going on to the crowning card here. Don't worry, the root card is next. Much more dick joke potential in that one. The crowning card in this reading is going to be the Prince of Cups.

Again, some naked dude riding a chariot. There's a lot of Homer erotic card in this reading is going to be the Prince of Cups. Again, some naked dude riding a chariot. There's a lot of Homer eroticism in this. And this is our first influence of the element of water. This is the element of self-reflection. And the image here, we got this guy. He's kind of looking into a cup. There's a snake coming out of the cup. And he's got this look on his face like, yes, I've won, but at what cost?

And the root card here is actually going to kind of balance right out with that one. That's going to be the five of discs known as the card of worry. So basically, the crown and root of the problem, the reason why the nemesis is still the nemesis, is because of a concern over what has to be sacrificed to achieve the victory, to achieve the goal that we've set out. All right. So that's like the first half of the reading. You know what this feels like? Believe it or not.

I don't know if you can detect it, but I just rolled my eyes on Skype. I don't know if you could. This feels like an English class led by a really bad TA, you know, like where you're just like going through and you're just, they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about and you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but you're talking about. But you're desperately deciding that everything is a fucking symbol for something and just fucking making it up.

Just make it up. That's exactly what it is. Honestly, the use that I still have for tarots, they're great for storytelling. They're great if I'm trying to write something, if I'm trying to write fiction. I love to just turn one over and get a new idea because I do know the archetypal stories that they represent. But the beauty of that is, believe it or not, what I just gave you, a lot of people would look at that in their own lives. They would fill in the blanks. Of course. Sure.

Of course they would. Of course, I know we're talking about cognitive dissonance. I know a little bit about the podcast. But by the time I got this far into the reading, they would be telling me what it is that I'm telling them about. They would be telling me, oh, this must be about my real... But keep in mind, the narrative that I'm setting up could apply to anything. So even if you didn't give me any feedback, if you came in here with questions about your relationship, well, everything I said is perfectly applicable. Oh, well, you've been kowtowed, you won a game. You're looking for a victory,

but you're worried about what it'll cost. This could be about a business venture. This could be about your dream of raping llamas in Tijuana. Whatever you're thinking. It's not going to be a dream for long. See, I told you. I told you there's power in these cards.

So, but at this point in the reading, this is usually where I, this is sort of the halfway point. There's four cards to go, though. We're more than halfway through, but this is the where I, this is sort of the halfway point. There's four cards to go, though. We're more than halfway through. But this is the point where I sort of reassess my querent. At this point, I know, are you still skeptical and standoffish, or are you hanging on my every word? Are you filling in the blanks for me?

So my level of specificity in the second half of the reading is going to be dependent entirely on how you've reacted to the first half of the reading. I'm going to continue to be just as broad and meaningless and Deepak Chopra as humanly possible if you still seem skeptical so that I don't give you anything to argue with. But if you're buying in 100%, I'm going to start getting specific. I'm going to start telling you, oh, there's a woman in your family and she's ill and all of this other crap because I know you're going to buy that at this point. You know, the thing that occurs to me too, while we're doing this is, you know, a lot of what would motivate, like I know myself and I know a lot of what would motivate me

is my, just my desire to be a good sport about things too. You know, like if you're, if we're sitting across from each other and you seem like a nice guy and I don't want to offend you, you know, like we're, I'm in your home or in your place of business and you're being kind and you're asking me questions about my life and appearing to take genuine concern. My desire just to be polite and civil and to be a good sport and play along would play into this whole thing. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Absolutely. And there's a lot of people that come in and you can tell they come in with the intention of just knocking you down and making fun of the whole thing. And they're expecting somebody to, you know, be talking to a crystal

in the corner and wearing flamboyant gypsy clothes and whatnot. And when you give them the, well, you know, this is just, it's, think of it as a spiritual Rorschach test. It doesn't matter what I see in the inkblot. You start giving them that bullshit. They're like, well, you know, doesn't sound like any more or less a bullshit than half the things people are trying to sell me. And let's face it, it's not. All right. So we're going to go through the last four cards pretty quickly. Complete the narrative here. We've got this first card here. And you can tell these are the more important ones, by the way, because they're sitting off to the side and kind of diagonal.

That's that's one of the things that drives me nuts about it. If there was anything to it at all, couldn't you just lay them all out in a line? You know, couldn't you play go fish with out in a line? Right. Couldn't you play Go Fish with them? Do you have any Grim Reapers? Alright, so the first card we're going here is, this is the card of what you see in others. This is the 10 of discs.

That's the card of wealth. Now normally that would be you being jealous of other people's stuff, but don't worry. Rule number three of tarot reading is never tell anybody something they don't want to hear. Oh, nice. This one is going to represent, again, we said that the discs were representing sort of rationality or a more rational world. So what we're seeing here is we're seeing people, or you're seeing rather, people that have the intellect, that have the intelligence and choose not to speak up. You may even have seen that in yourself, maybe as the impetus to start this show, that you're sitting in a room where

there's four people, three of them are relatively intelligent, but yet the guy who's talking about how great his acupuncturist is, is dominating the conversation and no one's speaking up. So what you're seeing in others is this wealth of intellect that maybe isn't being used. Because again, this is the 10. This is the corruption of the element. Six would be the perfection of it. Ten is less like the wealth that allows you to take care of your family and more like the hoarding, greedy, Scrooge McDuck-type wealth. Scrooge McDuck. Now we move on to the what others see in you.

That's the ace of swords. That's the first issuance of intellect. It's like a proto-intelligence that people see when they see you guys. Again, I would never say that. I don't want to tell you anything that you don't want to know. So what I would say is it's a pure form of intellect that exists for its own sake. I love this. I fucking love this.

I know. It's great because they're just like, he doesn't want to say, it's okay. They think you have a 65 IQ. Right. Right. Exactly. I've got a way of saying that that makes you feel like I just complimented you. okay, they think you have a 65 IQ. Right. Right, exactly. I've got a way of saying that that makes you feel like I just complimented you.

You have a very primal intelligence. It's got to be exhausting to be a fucking fluffer like this, you know, like to keep me hard during the whole reading. I know. Absolutely. And now we've got to tie it back to our overall narrative so that we're telling one solid story. So, you know, look, like we said before, there's no money in podcasting. Starting a podcast is like a conscious decision not to make money with your spare time. And it's not like you got the ladies running up asking you to sign their tits, sign your tits. That was a Freudian slip.

It's more accurate for us, though. Bigger than a lot of the ladies I've met. Sign my boobs, baby. Sign my moves. You got to have one of those thick-ass pens. It takes so long, you're getting high in the process. Oh, man. Oh, I wish I was getting high in this process.

Anyway, so moving right along. So I believe when we last left off, I was telling you guys that there was a nobility and a purity in what you do since there's no financial reward. The only reward is knowing that you're trying to make the world a better place. So in other words, I was busy with a fluffer job there. Now we move on to card number eight. Normally this is done with ten cards, but I'm reducing it to nine for brevity's sake. This is the card of the environment. Kind of tells you what stage this is being played out on. And isn't it perfect that this card is the ten of swords, the card of ruin?

But this one is, this represents, again, this is sort of the corruption of the air element. Air represents imagination, intellect, etc. But this is sort of the point where you're overthinking things to the point where you can't actually act on them, because by the time you've thought it all the way through, you've already decided why it's going to fail. What is it that Kipling said? To think, but let thought not be your goal. That's the card of ruin right here. The image is nine swords turned in against the tenth sword. The tenth sword in the Tifereth position in that sixth perfection of the element position is broken into three pieces and has been utterly destroyed.

This is like, think Animal Farm. This is when everything starts turning against him in Animal Farm. Anywho, I'm getting a little bit literary on it. It was honest before it's over. And finally, and it's finally for all of us, I think, at this point, the final outcome card. Normally the 10th card, and I always tell everybody beforehand, this card is a bit of a warning. This is fantastic. I love how ominous it is. It's like, this could be a warning.

The best part is, like, I perked up hearing that. Like, I know this is a fucking warning. Like, my fucking reptile brain's like, well, I listen to warnings. And I'm like, ah, reptile brain, go back to sleep. Control my breathing, please. Exactly. And it gives it this kind of this air of climax. And let's face it, we're all about faking the climax here.

So finally the fluffer can relax. Exactly. And good, it's all about fake in the climax here. Yeah. Finally, the fluffer can relax. Yeah. Exactly. And good, it's another good phallic card here. This is the five of wands. This is the card of strife. That's the final outcome of your chosen path. Now, our future influence was the consecutive, the next consecutive card, the six of wands, the victory.

What this is telling us ultimately is absolutely nothing. But if it was telling us something, what it would be telling us is that there is no victory in this fight, that this is an unwinnable fight, that there will forever have to be a stalwart standing against the pseudoscience and the religion and the bullshit. And the best you can hope to do is keep your finger in the dike until somebody else comes along to finger that dike. Nicely done. Thank you, thank you. And this is usually the point where I remind you that, you know,

that the $20 you paid was just a minimum suggested donation. Noah, you learned to do this to get girls, right? Originally, but eventually, you know, like I said, I started to buy into it. I've read, you know, at least a dozen books on how to read tarot interestingly enough none of them agree i i'm gonna guess this was this was a successful venture to get the ladies though because there is a certain patchouli scented individual who would fall for this like i mean you you could basically go to virtually any fish concert with this these skills and just rip that in half. No, I disagree. I think it could be anybody.

Here's the thing. A girl that I don't find hideously unattractive looks across the table and says, I'd like to talk to you for 30 minutes and exclusively talk to you and be really intimate with you. Why wouldn't I fall for that? I would immediately be like, fucking talk to me. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing.

We're going to talk about you. That's everyone's favorite subject. Right. Right. We're all narcissists. We want to hear about ourselves. Absolutely. And that leads a lot of people.

You know, I wrote a blog when Cecil and I were first talking about doing this. I wrote a blog about, you know, kind of dusting off my old tarot and taking that trip down memory lane. And I got a lot of feedback from people who are saying like, oh, but tarot aren't about fortune-telling. They're about storytelling. There's a value to it, et cetera, et cetera. And a lot of people might look at what I just did and say, well, what's wrong with that? If the person you're reading for is buying in, the message was good. There was a little bit of a humility shot in there, but by and large, all I did was pump you up and say, keep at it, and it's all worthwhile,

and it'll all pay off in the end. So a lot of people say, what's wrong with that? And I can tell you exactly what's wrong with it. There's plenty wrong with it. But the big thing is there are people whose job it is to do that. These are psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors, people who are, first of all, educated in what to say and what not to say, but more importantly, regulated and licensed. It is remarkably easy to take advantage of someone through tarot. You know, every hundredth person that you give a tarot reading to, or if you're good at it, every 15th, every 20th, really, really buys into it. And no matter what you tell them about how,

no, no, it's just a, you know, it's just a storytelling, it's just a spiritual Rorschach test, they are convinced that it's magic and you just don't know it yet. And the temptation to take advantage of that person is overwhelming. Now, even if you can overcome that temptation, you're just priming the person for the next charlatan that can't. That's the big part that I think is like you're priming the pump for the next bit. You know, it's just another brick in the wall, right? You know, I mean, if you're putting up this, it's this another piece that you're allowing people to be like, you know, now they may go to the acupuncturist.

Now they may see the astrologer. Now they may spend some money and call Sylvia Brown's carcass on the phone for a little while or something. She's probably getting a better hit right now that she's dead. Or at the very least, the next time somebody busts out a Decatero and and doesn't have their best interest in mind, you've certainly primed them for that. You know, the thing is, stories are powerful things. People underestimate the power of narratives and stories like stories are the are the tools that we use to know ourselves and to know the people around us and to develop like a mythos that we exist within. And if, if that, if part of that story that we're telling about ourselves and that story that we're using to understand our world is built on the back of bullshit, it all rests on an uneasy foundation. Yeah, absolutely. And there's another thing I

kind of buried in the point you were just making there. You're, you're giving people when you do what I just did, which is sort of the more honest version of a tarot reading, you're giving people what you think is good advice. You have no way of knowing if it is. Right. You know, like I'm telling you guys, keep your chin up and keep marching forward. You're doing a good thing. But, you know, and I know a little bit about what you're doing going into it, obviously. But I may have given that same message to just random person who walks in on the street and who knows what how they're going to take that

i may mean it in a very general term but they might start plugging in the blanks and say you know what he's telling me that i don't i shouldn't give up on my ex-wife yet restraining order or no he's telling me to keep at it i am gonna shoot up that middle school damn it absolutely yeah exactly exactly i am gonna rape that llama in Tijuana. So, you know, you're giving people advice, and you have no way, like I said, there's no certificate for this. There's no class that you had to pass before they'd give you these fucking cards. So you may think that you're doing a good thing.

Right. But to do that is an insult to anyone who's ever studied psychology or psychiatry. To think that you can just step in and play psychologist without, you wouldn't do this with an engineer's job. Yeah. Why the hell would you do it

when you're working with the human psyche? We had DJ Grothy on the show and he was talking about this. He said, at best, you're getting someone's aw shucks advice is what he said. Absolutely. And I was like, and that's, I mean, that's totally true. It's at best, you're getting someone's aw shucks advice, is what he said. Absolutely. And I was like, I mean, that's totally true.

It's at best, you're getting aw shucks advice. At worst, you're getting conned. Absolutely. Well, Noah, really quickly, we're going to test your prediction capabilities here. Who's in the Super Bowl? All right, we're going to go, ah, shit. All right, so the last three times Manning and Brady met together, the winner of that game was the

home team, and they went on to win the Super Bowl. So I'm going to say Denver beat in Seattle. Wow. All right. Well, that's probably the favorites anyway. Well, I'm not saying that's the rule of the tarot. You always play the odds. Nicely done. Nicely done. Noah, if people wanted to find your podcast,

where would they look? Just, you know, that Google thing works pretty good. Just type in The Scathing Atheist there. It'll whisk you away to our archives, I'm sure. Yeah, Noah puts on a great podcast. If you haven't checked it out, Scathing Atheist with Heath and Lucinda. It's a great show, very funny, and it's totally worth your time, so you should check it out. Noah, thanks for joining us. Thanks a lot, Noah. This was a hoot. My pleasure. So we got some email this time.

I want to talk about a few emails that we got. We got an email from Kate. And Kate says, she said, from Kate. And Kate says, she said, basically what she said is, you guys remind me a lot of car talk, where you guys laugh a lot, laugh at your own jokes,

but you guys make each other laugh and you laugh a lot. And the topic sometimes comes second. And I think that really does sort of match our show. We were compared to an atheist car talk years ago, Tom, when we first started doing this show. And we like it because we both of us like Car Talk and we think Car Talk was a fun show to listen to. And we hope that our show is a fun show to listen to.

Yeah, I think that's a high bar to climb over to be compared to Car Talk. I'm terribly amused that the fight actually, according to her email, the fight actually went all the way to the Wisconsin State Legislature. Yeah, there's a whole This American Life about it, too. I don't know if you've ever heard it. I have not. 50 people testified that they weren't funny? Yeah.

What the fuck? I love that. People just show up and they're just like, we have different tastes. And you'd be like, that's how taste works. Yeah, it's funny because we just got a couple of iTunes ratings. And by the way, if you're interested, we love to get iTunes ratings. We think iTunes ratings are great. So we wanted to mention a couple of them.

One of them was for two stars recently, Tom. We got one. And this person listened to two of our shows. Actually, they didn't listen to two entire shows. They listened to the better part of two shows. Well, that's giving it the old call of trying. To be honest, none of them are the better part. Yeah, right.

It really doesn't matter. It's hard to fault them. Yeah. Well, essentially, of them are the better part. Yeah, right? It really doesn't matter. It's hard to fault them. Yeah. Well, essentially, they listened to the better part of two episodes. And the reason we got two stars is because we didn't fit with their idea of what the title of our podcast, Cognitive Dissonance, should be. So they were expecting a more skeptical-based, exploring-two-sides-of-the-issue podcast and found that they stumbled upon a podcast where the two guys already decided what they believed on the things, and so they didn't like it, and they gave us two stars.

I love that. It's like, I wanted your show to be a thing, and then it was a different thing, so your show is bad. Like, wait, what? Yeah, and the other thing, too, is the only other thing they ever rated was a country-western album. Like, that's the only other thing too is the only other thing they ever rated was a country western album like that's the only other thing you're rated you they were so mad that that we didn't live up to the term cognitive distance that they took the time out of their day to put a two-star fucking rating on there

we also got a four-star rating or five-star rating from someone who said that they really didn't like all the swearing uh but they still rated us we want to thank you obviously for uh for for giving us a five-star rating even if you don't like the swearing, but they still rated us. We want to thank you, obviously, for giving us a five-star rating, even if you don't like the swearing. I just wanted everybody to know, again, as well as not laughing to our own jokes, I think, because that two-star person said we laugh. There's a laugh track on our thing. There's no fucking laugh track. It's not like I have a fucking recorded Tom's laugh and a recorded Cecil laugh,

and I put them on whenever we make a joke that doesn't happen. All the laughing is organic, dumb fuck. But then the other thing too, is like the swearing is also organic. I don't pay attention to how I talk when I talk to Tom. It just so happens that a lot of F-bombs wind up in that conversation. That's just, that's just is what it is. We put an explicit tag. We try to give it to everybody, let them know ahead of time that that's just going to be what it's going to be. We just want to be comfortable. We are genuinely friends.

This is not like a business venture that we're on where we're just like, I can tolerate that guy. We'll just chit chat. We're genuinely friends. We're just having a friendly conversation. That really is what this show started off as and is and will continue forever to be so and it's funny because people analyze it all the time by saying like well you guys are just forcing it like i'm not forcing i'm not forcing a call to a friend of mine that i've had for the better part of 20 years like that's not a thing i need to force yeah right like oh

man i gotta fucking spend a couple hours talking to Cecil. I know shit, right? Man, what good is that? All that does is maintain and reinforce a friendship. Who would want to do that? Who wants to do that shit? Ridiculous. That's awesome. We got an email from Cody, and Cody sent us a

link to his website. He also sent us a link to a website. He also sent us a link to a video. And this video is basically he he says it's a PSA about anti-gay assault in Russia and wanted to share it with us. So this is I'm going to post this video for this episode. Episode 134. It's five minutes long and it's kind of it's a I mean, I watched it and I'll be honest, I was squirming a little while I was watching it. I was like, oh man.

So it's, it's, it's visceral. So, uh, so give it a shot. Take a look at it, Cody, to put a lot of work into it. And I think it turned out really good. Um, it's, uh, it's a very good video. I don't want to, I don't want to spoil any of it. I don't even want to tell you what the premise is. Just go take a look at it.

I think he put a lot of work into it and, work into it, and I think it's great. So thank you, Cody, for sending that in. Thank you very much for sending it. Last episode, we just had that awful story about rape, Tom, and we got a couple of messages that thanked us for it, but they also said that they weren't sure that they could actually listen to the show. They thanked us for talking about the story. They saw that the story was one of those stories that we should have talked about, but they didn't sure that they could actually listen to the show. They thanked us for talking about the story. They saw that the story was one of those stories that we should have talked about, but they didn't think that they could listen to the show. And, you know, you got to respect that.

Yeah, I appreciate that. And somebody also put a Twitter tag out there, you know, hey, there's a trigger warning at the front of the next dissonance pod. You know, please don't hesitate to do that. If we don't catch, if there's something that you think, hey pot you know please don't hesitate to do that if we don't catch if there's something that that you think hey you know this might be a bit of a trigger for other people who have you know a sensitivity to certain subjects um i appreciate that i certainly wouldn't want you know if i had a a trigger uh topic i certainly wouldn't want to be uh you know blindsided or surprised i don't think it occurs to ceil and I, cause we're terrible people. Um, I just think, I just think, you know, it really doesn't.

And I don't think, I think the reason why it doesn't occur to us is because neither of us have PTSD. Right. Yeah. I mean, we just don't, we don't have any triggering events in our lives. Thankfully. We're grateful for that. We're fortunate in that regard. Um, but it makes it easy to forget about those things. Uh, so if there is something, please don't hesitate. Throw it out there. Let people know. We don't want to drive people away from an episode, but we also don't want to make people uncomfortable or what have you.

We tried to make that portion of the episode as quick as possible and as nondescript as possible. Just try to burn through it. But we understand, too, if you just don't want to listen to it, hey, we understand. But there's a whole other podcast there, so you could just keep hitting fast-forward 30 seconds until you get past that piece. And if you want time codes, I will go through the trouble to time code it, too.

So if there's a story that's a particular trigger and you're like, gosh, I can't get through it, is there anybody who can time code it for me? I'll time code it for you. The Lemonade Mystery. A bunch of people sent us a message about this. Here's the thing, and thank you very much. So here's what we asked last week.

We were puzzled because he's like, we hope they don't serve lemonade at the gay marriage floats that was going on in the Rose Bowl parade. Well, we had, when we read it, we were reading the transcript. The thing is, is I go and capture the audio and play that audio for the audience. However, when Tom and I are recording, oftentimes we never hear that audio because we have already listened to it prior and we don't bother to listen to it again because we're in the, we're sort of in a role when we're doing the stories. We go from story to story to story and we don't, we don't stop to listen to this brand new piece, especially if all the dialogue's already there. So we'll just pay attention to that dialogue and say, okay, well, we know he says this.

Well, what the heck is this about? So we don't bother listening. Clearly he's saying they don't want to serve lemonades, but it doesn't come off like that in the transcript. So we missed it last week. The guy was saying lemonades, not lemonade. And so that's why the guy was trying to make another joke, clearly unfunny joke. He is like our writer.

He makes all of our unfunny jokes. He's just making terrible puns the whole time. Guy's fucking awful. I'll be honest, guys. I don't even watch most of these videos. I mean, because a lot of times when I'm hunting for stories, I just go off the transcripts. guys fucking awful i'll be honest guys i don't even watch most of these videos like i i mean because a lot of times when i'm hunting for stories i just go off the transcripts i just read them um because if i'm looking for stuff at work or what have you you know or on my phone or

you know sitting next to my wife while she's watching tv i don't want to play some fucking hate-filled vitriolic bullshit where everybody can hear it and look over at me like I'm some right-wing nutjob. I will read the transcript. We got an email about the Google search bubble from Eric. And Eric says that the phenomenon you were discussing about Google giving batshit results is called bubbling. Unfortunately, this search personalization happens even when you aren't logged into Google. And it talks about it basically. And he says, I've avoided Google and search for 18 months now for this exact reason. As a skeptic, I want to expose myself

to information that challenges my opinions and assumptions. And I don't feel like Google will do that. What I want to ask you, Eric, is what search engine do you use? Because nobody uses Bing. I mean, let's be honest here. Nobody's Bing in anything. So let me know what you use? Because nobody uses Bing. I mean, let's be honest here. Nobody's Bing in anything. So let me know what you use, because I'm just kind of curious what search engine you use. Also, a couple of people this week had said, hey, I live in the area. If you're ever interested in getting together, that's great. Thank you very much for an invite out. If Tom and I ever do anything in the area, if we're ever going anywhere, we'll let people know so we can all hang out and just sort of grab a beer together. It's not something that happens all that often, but if it does, we'll let you know. Thank you for the invites, though. They were very generous.

Tom, we got an interesting email from Bart. We did. And it's regarding the botched circumcision story that we covered previously. And what I thought was particularly interesting in his email was that it should be noted, this is reading a quote from his email, it should be noted that the main reason to opt for infant circumcision in the U.S. is that around 1% of male intact are required to prevent one UTI, a condition easily treated with antibiotics. However, if Peretti et al., which is a study that he was previously citing, are to be believed, the rate of complications is 2 to 10 times higher than UTI incidence. So the rate of complications for a circumcision procedure is two to 10 times higher than UTI incidence. And if UTI is the reason to get the circumcision, it doesn't, I mean, it's just numerically, even if you're just going off of the numbers, it just doesn't make any sense. And then he goes on to say it should also be noted that the UTI rate is 2% to 5% in female infants,

and we're not circumcising them for any reason here. Man, that's not a thing you should do to somebody. No, man, I don't get it. I really don't. I mean, I'm a snipped individual. I don't know why they did it, but they did it. I am too, man. It fucking is what it is.

It is what it is now, but you don't have to to do that to people anymore it's just not a thing right it's like you know it's there's no point to it i know i love getting the data like that though that's so awesome thank you for sending that in got an email from paul here tom i don't know about the horror that is the picture in this. I cannot even imagine. This is a photo of a Ghirardelli eggnog square. Is it with white chocolate? Because if it is, then it's just fucking

an abomination. I didn't even click on it because I was afraid. It is an abomination if it's... No, it's fucking... It doesn't say. It just says eggnog chocolate. It doesn't say white chocolate. I don't know if it's chocolate because it just says Ghirardelli chocolate, but I think that's the name of the company. Yeah, maybe you're right.

Maybe that is part of the logo. It's just fucking eggnog flavor, man. No chocolate involved. Just raw shit fucking pressed eggnog chunks. Who would do that? I'd rather drink cow urine. Can you imagine if you had to chew it?

Oh my god. Fucking, it's like a collab collage. I think I would rather just knock my fucking teeth out. I think I'd rather just hit myself in the face with a fucking belt sander. We got a good belt sander.

Bang your face off a table saw. All right, so we got an email about the food stamp diet. Tom, you just started the Snap Challenge this week. Yeah, it's a glory hole, gentlemen. Just a note to remind people about another detail regarding the food stamp diet. Kudos to you for trying it. To those who have tried it, aced it,

and see it as a mere inconvenience, I say, sure, it can be done. Some people have lived on even less. A huge point to make, aced it, and see it as a mere inconvenience, I say. Sure, it can be done. Some people have lived on even less. A huge point to make, in my opinion, is that for those of us trying it out, it's optional. We can return to our comfort at any point and almost certainly will choose to do so. The reality of dealing with that budget long-term or in a permanent way must leave one feeling hopeless. On top of that, we can't simulate the other factors associated with long-term poverty scenarios. When a person or family is financially forced to survive on the minimum amount of caloric and, if lucky, nutritional requirements, there is no room for extra expenses

in other areas. Medicine is a luxury. Injury could be a ticket to homelessness. Employment options are severely limited by physical proximity to workplaces. The list goes on and on. Just having enough to eat doesn't necessarily mean you are leading the good life. Yeah. Yeah, man.

And then he makes a great comparison. He says, a comparison perhaps? Roughing it can be fun and or challenging for the ordinary outdoors person, but nobody wants to be stranded helplessly in isolation. And I think that is a terrific analogy to the difference between doing something because you want to and doing something because you have to. And we talked about it earlier, Tom.

You're having problems as it is just forgetting that you have food that you have bought before, just having spices in the house that you had before i've cheated um i'm not i'm just i'm lazy and stupid and both of those things are conspiring against me so as usual um but i i'm i'm giving it a whirl uh but i have cheated i drank a beer i wouldn't be able to afford beer but i had beer in the house and i just drank a beer. When I cooked food, I used a lot of spices because the food that I bought was bland and unappealing. And so I used a bunch of spices, but I could not afford those spices.

So, I mean, I just, I have cheated without even, I mean, you just, I cheated casually. Like I got hungry and just went and grabbed a yogurt because I have yogurt in my house. So it's really difficult actually to simulate this in a meaningful way. But even, but even you had even said it still sucks even though I'm cheating. Oh yeah. I think it's horrible. There's, there's a lot of things that, you know, I things that I personally take for granted in my diet that are not options. I eat a lot of fruit, so I usually have apples and bananas on my desk at work.

I can't do that on $32 a week. $32 for 21 meals, a dollar and change a meal. You don't get to have apples on your desk for when you're just, you know, feeling peckish in the afternoon, you want a snack and you don't want it to be something bad. Just reach over and grab it. It's not a fucking option. You can't do that. Um, I thought initially I would just buy a chicken and make some chickens, but you know, like chicken, even like a cheap whole chicken, five or six bucks out of $32. I'm a fucking big guy. Like I'm going to eat, I'm going to eat a lot of that chicken. I mean,

a half a chicken and a sitting. That's one, I get two meals and I only get the protein portion for two meals. It's, it's very difficult to do. Uh, it's bland. It's unappealing. It's repetitive. It's just not a lot of a dollar and change a meal. It's not enough money, man. So we got an email from Donna and Donna. I already said your name, but she says she just wanted to say hello from down under. She's she's got a lot of she had a lot of things here she was talking about. She says, I was just listening to your latest podcast and there were a few gay related news items. I felt like putting in my two cents, Worth is a gay woman who ends up in the homo debates all the time with people. And she talks about a bunch of things she noticed. One of these things

that I think is really important is that a lot of people think it's still a sickness. And I think that that's really true. And she says it's been removed by the DSM. And I think that's really true. And also she says they think that pedophiles who molest boys, they're gay. And that's, again, that's something that really gets equated in there. There's all these struggles that homosexuals have to deal with. And there's all this misinformation that's still out there. It's this urban legend that sort of follows them around, that they have – that they are the propagators of AIDS, that they're the people who are – they're sick and that they – it's a choice. All these things that are not true that keep on getting propagated. So I think that this is a great list. At the bottom she says, P.S., I love the way you guys say my name.

Say it! And she puts it in all caps. Donna, if you say that to me that way, I think we're going steady. I don't know. I mean, I think you and I, I think we're an item now, Donna. Well, Donna, we appreciate the email and the opportunity to say Donna. Donna.

How would they say? I can't even imagine how an Australian, what would they say? Dona. Doner? It's Dona. They'd say like Doner or something. Wouldn't they put like the R at the end? I can't even imagine how an Australian, what would they say? Donor. Donor? It's donor. They'd say like donor or something. Wouldn't they put like the R at the end? I think it's pronounced koala. Koala. It's Boston.

Well, we want to thank No Illusions for coming on our show. Noah runs a great podcast with his co-host Heath and Lucinda, and it's called The Scathing Atheist. If you haven't checked it out, it's a much funnier show than this show. If you do go become huge fans of them, please at least come back and visit us once in a while. But really, truly, they do put on a great show, so you should check it out. That's going to be it for this week, Tom. We're going to leave people, as always, with the skeptic's creed. Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno-Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative,

acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead pan, sales pitch, late night info docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls, Bigfoot, Yeti, aliens, churches, mosques, and synagogues, temples, dragons, giant worms, Atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches, wizards, vaccine nuts, shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, doublespeak, stigmata, nonsense. Expose your signs. Thrust your hands. Bloody, evidential, conclusive.

Doubt even this. Doubt even this. The opinions and views expressed in this show are that of the hosts only. Our poorly formed and expressed notions do not represent those of our wives, employers, friends, families, or of the local Dairy Council. Thank you. you