Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 140: Atheistically Speaking

Episode Date: March 3, 2014

Thanks to Thomas 1/2 of Atheistically Speaking:     Free thought festival:   Atheist meetups in IL:  

What day of the week do you look forward to most? Well, it should be Wednesday. Ahem, Wednesday. Why, you wonder? Whopper Wednesday, of course. When you can get a great deal on a whopper. Flame grilled and made your way. And you won't want to miss it.

So make every Wednesday a whopper Wednesday. Only at Burger King, where you rule. Want to stream Cognitive Dissonance to your Android or iPhone? Buy the app. Go to DissonancePod.com and click on the link on the right-hand side of the page. Each purchase helps support the show. Hey, Tom and Susie, it's Mike from the Irreverent Skeptics Podcast. I heard your story about how Tom DeLay apparently thinks that God wrote the Constitution,

which you thought sounded a little too literal to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, there actually is a pseudoscience belief that the Israelites got the Constitution from God, through Moses, and they moved and founded the common law of England based on the laws of Moses, and that American Constitution is literally based on something given to Moses by God.

So, he might have been referring to that. He may literally believe that the Constitution was written by God. And if so, well, fuck that guy. Uh, glory to the Lord. You guys rock. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. this is cognitive dissonance every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical, it's political, and there is no welcome mat.

This is episode 140. And we have Thomas from Atheistically Speaking and from Thomas and the Bible on to join us today. So thank you, Thomas, for being on the show. Hey, thank you so much for having me. You've put out 140 episodes of this bullshit. Wow. I know. That's what I said. I can't believe the FCC hasn't stepped in by now. We've put it out, but nobody's listening to any of it. That's why the FCC hasn't stepped in. They don't even know you exist. They fly under the radar.

I don't know. I think you're on their radar. I think they're like, oh, man, if they get to 150, we're fucking taking these guys off. There's no way. Yeah, we're going to do it. They're going to start regulating podcasts. There's got to be some regulation we can use. Pull this dribble off you.

Indecency regulation. They actually come out with a little known like your quality is shite yeah regulation like so the story we want to talk to you about thomas comes from npr uh ardent atheists spread their reverence for disbelief um this is a uh story discussing um basically the the the evangelical atheist movement or at least the idea of evangelical atheism which i kind of take exception to the evangelical atheist movement, or at least the idea of evangelical atheism, which I kind of take exception to the evangelical, the use of evangelical and atheism. Doesn't evangelical mean like according to Christianity?

Yeah, I mean, it's not a word that you can actually throw out there in relation to atheism. That's right up there with them calling any gathering atheists have an atheist mega church like what the fuck yeah we're about 90 zillion trillion billion dollars away from a mega church like mega churches have so much goddamn money we have folding chairs okay exactly that's uh that's how the balance sheet looks, like the balance sheet of the nonprofit. It's like, well, four folding chairs. It's about $29.95. And that's it.

That's all we got. And that's pretty much all of it. Yeah. That's it. We actually had to get together in a church basement because we have so little resources. We couldn't even afford dignity. That's how it looks. resources even afford dignity that's how yeah it's so funny because like evangelism is a protestant movement like that's what evangelism is so like the idea that you can be evangelical um like that

you can be an evangelical atheist that is not a truism like you, you just can't do it. And I think it's like, the thing that struck me about this story that I think I wanted to talk to you about, Thomas, is if atheists talk about being atheists, if there's a discussion to be had about faith, and part of that discussion includes the possibility of no faith, suddenly that is proselytizing rather than a discussion. And that's not, I mean, that's not, it's just not honest. Like, it's not evangelical atheism. If you have a conversation about faith, it just doesn't strike me as comparable. But I wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Well, exactly. And I watched, I don't think it's in the text of the story, but I watched a little video that's on there. I assume you link them obviously somewhere so they can. Yeah, yeah, on our notes. are they out here preaching? And it's like, just compare that to like, say racism. Like, okay, if a bunch of people have a bunch of racist, horrible beliefs, like, oh, this race is inferior, this race is inferior. And then someone comes out and says like, hey, none of that's true. And they're like, what are you out here preaching for? You don't, you don't believe in any race or all inferiority. What are you doing? Why are you even here? Why are you talking? It's like, you have to have some bullshit belief in order to talk. Like it's so ridiculous.

When I think that's funny too. It's like, well, what are you preaching? Well, actually we're not, nobody's preaching. Yeah. We're trying to preach going on. We're trying to de-preach this place. Is that, is that legitimate? Like, is that a legitimate thing to do to go out and try to deconvert? You know, cause this story talks about, you know, the guy says, you know, we've had deconversions happen. Is that like what do you think about the idea of atheists deconverting people? Like, is that is that something people should be obligated to do as atheists? Is that part of the. I do not think that's that's a really good question.

And it's I think that's why I asked it. Yeah, I knew it was a great well and it's stuff like that honestly i fucking nailed it i appreciate you letting me know to try to get all serious with you fuckers um it's no that is exactly kind of why i wanted to do this show that i'm doing because it's those kind of questions like because a lot of atheists well pretty much every atheist has some different belief on some level about atheism and about what we should be doing. Like, it's insane. I mean, I don't mean that in a bad way. It's like, it's just crazy how many, because everybody, most atheists are just independent thinkers and they have their own.

They're not looking to tow party lines most of the time. I mean, sometimes you could say they are, but so. Wait, wait, wait. Is there a party line? Because I want to tow it. Is it? I didn't even know we had one. Well, we don't tell you about it.

It's an exclusive party line. I would have to say that, I guess by that I mean, okay, I'm just going to hear what Richard Dawkins or some other leader says and just defend it no matter what. Like, there are those people who just defend what a prominent atheist says no matter what. But there are also a ton of people who have differing views, and maybe they agree with a horseman on one thing or a horse person on another. A horse individual, a centaur, if you will.

That's actually all I pay attention to when I'm, you know, just as an aside, I take all of my religious cues from centaurs or other mythical beasts. Well, that's completely reasonable. Like a psi. Whatever. Whatever is good. Whatever is a horse. Basically, whatever is a horse. If it's a hoven animal, a Hoven animal, then you're fine.

We only listen to Pan flute music here as a result. It's exclusive. You might be able to give me some advice. Yeah, Pan's Labyrinth must be your favorite goddamn movie. Just watch it over and over. I didn't even know there were other movies. There's other movies? More than one?

Yeah. I actually just watched Pan's Labyrinth and then Labyrinth. Those are the only two movies that I allow in the house. Until they make another Labyrinth-related movie, those are the only two. Well, I haven't seen enough of the outline of David Bowie's cock in a pair of pantaloons.

All you gotta do is watch that on the big screen, my friend. Oh god, I love that movie so much. His junk magic junk is right there. I'm not even going to for a second apologize for the fact that I fucking love that movie so much. It's such a good movie. Mainly for

David Bowie's cock. But anyway. Really, you get a healthy dose of that weird. The question was whether or not we feel obligated to, or atheists should be obligated to, try to deconvert. And I would probably not be able to go so far as to say any atheist is obligated to do that because people, you know, people have lives. People have, you know, to differing extents, people have lives. Some people don't like me. I don't have a life.

So I go around trying to do podcasts and maybe deconvert somebody. But I'm never going to say you have to. But I think that it would be foolish and really quite annoying to say that you don't have a right to try to convert as many people to non-belief as you can. Because like I said, it's not an exactly perfect analogy with the racism thing, but it's just like any ridiculous belief. I mean, there are people who just believe ridiculous things. All the other groups in this article that are out there preaching are not just like liberal, super washy, wishy-washy Christians. They're like burn in hell if you don't believe, that kind of thing. Why would we not try to get rid of that and to try to tell people like relax.

You don't have to feel like you're going to burn in hell because there is no hell. We know it's sort of like taken for granted, right, that religious groups have an obligation. Like they have a responsibility and an obligation. And as a result, they have a right to preach their religion, right? I mean that's like – that's taken for granted. Nobody ever questions that. It would never make NPR. Another thing too, and before you go, Thomas, another thing too is that people don't ever question that it could be harmful to nobody ever says i mean it's always

assumed that it's a benefit that's always assumed that preaching christianity is a benefit it's never that you know you know growing up and learning about hell might give you a complex nobody says that everybody's always just like yeah well you know you got to learn about hell yeah in this big fucking park where a bunch of people are trying to give you Mormon pamphlets. Yeah, I agree. And I think one opinion I have that could be different than other atheists is that I don't – I think that if you truly believe – and I don't know if I've said this here or not. But if you truly believe that someone's going to go to hell, like if you legitimately believe that, I would a hundred percent want you to be trying to do everything you could to stop that. I mean, wouldn't you like, if I really believed you're going to die and then be tortured for eternity,

like I'd be really trying to save you because I'm a decent person. So I think in some ways it's almost worse if you're incredibly religious and you really believe that to just sit back and say like, those people are going to hell.'s like the most the least compassionate thing that i could even think of and so honestly like i i have a problem with atheists who think preaching religion is is the problem like as long if they were just quiet like if everyone just was you know just it wouldn't wouldn't bother me then would be OK. That's not the issue. I think the issue is that it's harmful and it's wrong and it can lead to certain – it can lead to ignoring certain facts about the world and it can sometimes lead to homophobia. It can lead to lots of things that are bad. It would almost be better if everyone was out there with their beliefs all the time. Because like with politics, what happens is people polarize and they almost cannot even talk to the other side.

Like they if you get an extreme conservative, extreme liberal, like in your family, if you've ever had that awkward time where, you know, someone brings up like one. Yeah. Someone will bring up like one. Someone will say like Obama. And it's like all fucking hell breaks loose. Global warming. Yeah. Global warming is awesome. polite company or something like that. Because what happens is you don't discuss it. And then you just go on thinking your idiot thoughts in your head and listening to whoever your choice idiot is who exaggerates all those thoughts. But I wonder if you guys would agree with that or not. I mean, I think that I don't really mind the fact that religious people want to convert people. I

honestly would feel more comfortable if they were constantly trying to engage in the conversation. so cecil this story comes from the patheos blog site this is from the uh ww jtd what would jt do portion of patheos teen dies at the hands of islamic priest performing an exorcism. A Palestinian teen has died. One Islamic priest has attempted to exorcise demons from the girl. This is a 17-year-old girl, Cecil. And I guess the way that you get rid of a priest, get rid of a demon if you are Islamic, it's a little different. It's a little different than the Catholic rites. With the Catholic rites, they show up. They tie you to a bed.

You puke out some soup. They throw some water on you and they press a cross on your face. If you're Islamic, it's worse, like most things, actually. So if you're an Islamic teen girl, there's no winning if you're an Islamic teen girl. At no point are you like, oh man, I'm so glad I was born anlamic teen girl this has worked out for me so well worst teen girl squad ever ever right i can count to being whipped like what it's terrible it's fucking awful um so anyway her uh her therapists um decided that the way to get rid of the demon was to force a liter of salt water down her gullet. Sounds legit.

The article that they actually link to, right? So this, what would JT do? Links to an article where they talk about it. And I'm going to read a little bit from that article. And the article that they link to is from El Monitor, I guess. That's what you would call it. I don't know. But I'm going to read it says he placed a recording device next to her head that played quranic

verses while her mother and brother stood next to her then abu harith uh asked the jinn to leave gada's body through one of her of the toes on her left foot This little piggy went to hell. Indeed, her finger moved through, moved though, and Abu Haram insisted that Gado was not the one moving her finger, but rather the jinn controlling her body. The girl was still conscious, and when she

got out of bed, she was asked if she was okay and she nodded. And the woman, the mother, says, I brought my daughter here because she has been constantly hearing words of apostasy and strange noises. If your daughter is having a psychotic episode, you do not take her to a priest. And that's the problem, right, is that is that clearly this girl was having problems. She was hearing fucking voices and they decided oh well that's obviously demonic well the only place that that would ever pop in your head is in a culture that is so steeped in

religion that they neglect psychology and and psychotherapy for religion man like you've got a situation where this poor girl needs medical help. That's what she needed. She needed medical intervention. She needed a mental health professional. She needed fucking medical help. It'd be like if you said, oh, well, somebody lapsed into a diabetic coma, so we have to get the fucking sugar demons out of them. Yeah.

Yep. Time to get the sugar demons out of them yeah yep time to get the sugar demons out like you know the the problem is because the symptoms are because the symptoms even for for for mental illness are so poorly understood by so much of the world you know mental illness is one of those things that can still be sort of looked on with this sort of mythical understanding with the sort of mystic worldview and so instead of looking at it and being like, well, you know, they've clearly got, you know, a disease and it needs to be treated as a disease and they need to be, you know, taken to a medical professional for treatment. Instead, it's like, well, fucking medical, like mental problems, dems be demons.

And then like, can you imagine the horror of taking your child to somebody who's supposed to help and they murder your kid in front of you? Because that's what fucking happened. They just murdered this kid. It's like inviting over the electrician and he burns your house down. Right. It's like, thanks, bro. Thanks for lighting my house on fire. But you got to ask yourself, like, is this something that's worked for him before?

Or did he make it up on the spot? Because I can't think that it worked before Cecil. I can't think he's like, oh, yeah, standard day at the office. You know, 17 year old girl, saltwater. I think saltwater actually just goes right through you. I think your body just like like shoots it right through you. I don't think you can. I mean, you can clearly get fucked up by it.

But I actually think he drowned her like the way it sounds from the reading of that article, he fucking choked her. He basically waterboarded her with salt water, forced her to drink it. She couldn't drink it. She choked on it and died because they talk about her turning blue and dying. So I actually think he fucking asphyxiated her.

You know, I'm not a fucking whatever. What are those guys? An autopsy people with a coroner? I'm not an autopsy bacon. That's what it says on their cars like when they get the car it's a really long you know it's funny because they put their name and their car their business card actually has to be longer than normal because it says autopsy person right after you can trust me i'm the autopsy person wait a minute i don't think that's the official title my work uh business cards a computer person i'm just the computer person i'm just like the old people like person like the old people at

work who like instead of calling it they're like can you get the computer guy over here computer guy i love that it is like a guy made a computer that's always what i picture it's like somebody like watch like like walks like a transformer this story comes from NBC News dot com. Twenty nine boys killed as Boko Haram attacks a boarding school in Nigeria. Yeah. Fuck. Yep.

Yeah. This story is just a fucking horror show. Gunman from Islamic Islamist. I'm sorry. Group Boko Haram stormed a boarding school in Nigeria overnight, killed 29 pupils. From the story, some of the students' bodies were burned to ashes. Fuck. You look at, you read through this story, Cecil, and I think the part of it that is particularly telling, at least to me,

is that the militant group whose name means Western education is sinful. Now, we've had stories, we've looked at stories, and we've decided not to cover them in the past when shit would go down because the political situation over there is so complex. Right, right. But, I mean, really, when the name of your militant group

is Western education is sinful. Right. Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, there's there's not a lot of mixed messages. It's not like this is a complex political situation. No, it's a I mean, they're clearly they have a stance. And what what it strikes me the most is, is Western education so sinful that the only punishment is death? That if you learn, like there's no way to take that person and say, okay, well, they learned a little bit of Western stuff and that's really sinful. Let's see if we can fix them in some way, in some weird fucking crazy Islamic way that we're going to do it.

Instead, it's like that person is lost forever i'm just gonna fucking murder them that's what you do that's your choice that's fucking column a in this right yeah at some point i mean look at this picture cecil like this is he levitating that gun is that gun levitating it's actually pretty funny because it looks like the guy in charge is like okay okay calm down calm down i know we just killed 29 people and the guy over the right has his head in his hands he's like i can't believe i joined this cult man like what was i thinking this is the worst boy scout troop ever they give badges for really weird stuff yeah i got my merit badge and burning a school down oh no like it's just but the badge is But the badge is actually really clever.

It's like a little burning school and these little flaming pupils running out of it. You've got to start the fire without any matches. It's difficult. It's difficult to get that badge. It is tough. It's tough. Because it takes a long time with that primitive bow thing. Yeah, man.

You've just got to stand there. You've got all your buddies around you blowing on it, blowing on the embers. Kids come out like, what you doing? No, no, go back inside the school. This is going to take some time. It should say Western education is effective, and that's why we don't like it. Yeah. Because really, what's the problem with Western education?

Because there's a problem here. There's a problem in their minds that it's so great. Like Western education is so dangerous. You would not murder 29 children. Oh, my God. You wouldn't murder 29 children anyway. Like just nobody would do that except for a horrible, evil human being. But nobody would do that if they did not think that there was something larger at stake something something sure just a vital fucking importance and the thing that's a vital importance here is that

you know it's what their group says like western education is sinful western education threatens to destabilize and depose their entire way of life you can you simply can't have. They are incompatible. They're right, Cecil. They are absolutely right. Western what is really interesting is that this man in a small, poor country was willing to stand up to the powers of the earth and go along with the will of his people to say, we are not going to allow this homosexual agenda to proceed in our country. But almost everywhere else, you're seeing people running scared at these terrible bullies that operate under the guise of victims in the LGBT community. They're the worst bullies in the world. And everybody is afraid of them except a few of us who are willing to take the slings and arrows because we feel responsible for standing for the truth. So this story comes from Right Wing Watch.

for standing for the truth. So this story comes from Right Wing Watch. Scott Lively, anti-gay revolution needed to stop demonic conspiracy to homosexualize the world. Scott Lively said yesterday that a global satanic conspiracy is homosexualizing the world, and only a revolution of gay rights opponents can stop it um yeah i mean i think that that's accurate actually i think you know the four to seven percent of the population that's homosexual that's that's it i mean it's fucking done like it's that is the home the world

has been homosexualized except for 93 to 96 percent 96 percent right all those people are still straight but they're going to be straight and they're going to continue being straight yes except for those people that are homosexual right who have taken over clearly taken over the world you know it's funny because talking about demonic conspiracy that would mean that that hell is gay would would hell be like completely immaculate and like smell of cocoa butter and lavender like i mean what would hell be like that well decorated like everybody's super buff right you go down to hell their shirts off you're like wow i don't know if you couldn't see me when i did that but i sort of straightened up and stuck my arms out a little when i walked i

was pretending to walk there you got the buff the buff i did that's but I sort of straightened up and stuck my arms out a little when I walked. I was pretending to walk there. You got the buff, the buff walk. That's my buff walk, which is totally different than my slouched sitting position. Right. Mine isn't any different. My fat bulbous, like blobby sitting position that I normally sit in is very different than my buff walk. I just pour myself into the nearest chair and hope for the best. That's all I can do. Right. The chair eventually just melts right off me. Like it just like, into the nearest chair and hope for the best. That's all I can do. The chair eventually just melts right off me. Like, it just, like, eventually the chair will disintegrate and I'll need a new chair. They'll have to hella lift me onto the, because any one of those helicopters with the two blades that actually lift me up, like, big giant straps. It's like they're putting, you know, one of those fucking 60-ton air conditioners in a high-rise downtown.

That's what they have to do to put me in a chair. I'm like growing into my chair, actually. Like I'm melding. You need like a complex winch system. It's a series of winches and pulleys. What would a homosexual hell be like? And I think a homosexual hell would be this guy's ideal world, right? His ideal world is Uganda.

If you listen to what this guy has to say, and as you go down these SoundCloud files, they're only about a minute long, so work your way down the page. And as you get to the last one, he starts praising the people from Uganda for their strong stance against homosexuality. He's like, oh, I don't agree with everything from that bill. Oh, like the fucking murdering or fucking imprisoning of homosexuals. But I think they're really taking a strong stance against homosexuals.

You're a fucking jagoff is what you are. If you think Ugandan's law about what they're doing to homosexuals has any merit whatsoever, you're an asshole. You're an asshole and you're not just a regular asshole. You're a dangerous asshole. You know, I read

this and one of the things that occurs to me,cil is like these people can't really believe in actual heaven or hell i really i like part of me thinks that this is the case because if you really believed in actual heaven and hell and i really believed cecil that that somebody who's performing an act that has no effect on me so it's not hurting hurting me. It's not hurting my kids. But it's against God's law, and they're going to go to hell. There's no incentive for me to punish them now. Right? Like, that shit's like, that's one thing to me I would be like,

I don't have to worry about that. God's going to take care of it. It's fucking, at this point, it's like, I'm going to put that in the none of my business pile. Right. It's none of my business. I believe in hell. They're going to go go to hell god will take care of it i just don't need to worry about this one like this is like this should be like if you really are like if you really are a devout religious believer i i actually think homosexuality would be like one of those things

that you could that you could wipe your brow about and be like, oh, God, that I don't need to sweat. That's covered. Like there's all these other issues that I that I need to worry about these other things that that have an impact on the life of myself in this world that affect my ability to live a righteous life. And that's the only thing that matters if you believe in heaven or hell, I would think is like I have to lead a righteous life. And that's the only thing that matters if you believe in heaven or hell, I would think. It's like, I have to lead a righteous life because, you know, eternity and so forth. But if you really think that, it'd be like saying, like,

Dad's coming home in an hour and he's going to punish you for breaking that vase. But before he gets here, I'm going to punch you in the face. Well, why? Dad's going to punish me in an hour when I get home. Yeah, well, I still feel the need to punch you in the face. Well, why? Dad's going to punish me in an hour when I get home. Yeah, well, I still feel the need to punch you in the face. I still feel the need to punch you in the face because I'm really gay.

I know, right? And I hate myself. That's it. It's amazing, though, the kind of vitriol that you can still spout about homosexuality. I want to read part of the transcript here. still spout about homosexuality. I want to read part of the transcript here. This guy, he says that gay rights is a demonic push to bring about the last days.

This is a moral issue of the end times. It's clearly a spiritual phenomenon. In the space of just 50 years, this movement has gone from being illegal, sodomy uh was illegal in every country in the world except sweden legalized it in 1938 and now a tiny group of people he says one to two percent of the population has the power and in the legislate legislatures and the courtrooms of the world more than the christian church does and i think to myself i'm like man we went from homosexual homosexuality being illegal and all over the world to where we're at now. And I'm thinking, fucking win.

That's fucking awesome. That's great. That's something you should be fucking proud of. Be like, yeah, you know what? You don't get to fucking go to jail for it anymore. That's awesome. Because how the fuck were you? How in the world was that law even enforced before?

How could you possibly enforce that law other than invading someone's privacy? It doesn't even make any sense. It's like, yeah, we went from the world of Big Brother, like paying attention to what you did in your bedroom to not paying attention. How is that not a win for all of the people? Yeah, well, I mean, I think clearly like the idea here is that people don't deserve privacy like they don't deserve to have private sexual lives that the sexual lives and i think that the the way to police this cecil is that all people should be videotaped having sex at all times right and then it should just be posted to like this guy's web page so he can watch it and decide if you're fucking your wife or your spouse or you know

whatever like if you're as long as you're doing it you know the way he likes to see it they say that i make the contention that gays caused the holocaust this is wrong i've been very clear in my writings and everything i've said that the nazi party is responsible for the hol. But how did the Nazi Party come into being? The Nazi Party, ladies and gentlemen, was formed in a gay bar in Munich. And historians agree that Hitler's earliest enforcers, the stormtroopers, the brown shirts, were almost without exception homosexuals. So it was homosexual thugs that helped Hitler to form the Nazi Party. In other words, no homosexual thugs, no homosexual brown shirts,

no homosexual stormtroopers, no Nazi Party. So this next story comes from the Progressive Secular Humanist blog, also at Patheos. Ugandan Minister for Ethics and Integr integrity says men raping girls is natural the right reverend father simon lokodu the current state minister for ethics and integrity in uganda the irony title claims men raping girls is natural and seems to imply heterosexual rape is morally preferable to consensual homosexual activity he doesn't seem to imply that that's exactly what is being said like that is it um you know it the fuck what yeah i don't i just don't see so i just can't like how do you say this like how do you say like it's the right kind of child rape?

Is it is it that hard to get a minister for ethics and integrity to go on the record as condemning child rape? I guess it is. Like, if there's ever a time in your job where you're like, I got this one. I've got this one. Wait a minute. Somebody somebody lobbed me a softball like it's fucking tuesday afternoon and somebody asked me a question about when you can rape children like somebody somebody in the room said is there a doctor in the room and you stood up right i am the fucking doctor yes i can save

this person i have got this shit i do this fucking all day no problem it's somebody like ah but it is the right kind of child you are all the fired like how can this how what okay like his boss is just like myself out and like how does your performance review next year go like um okay so as far as ethics and integrity is concerned uh those are the two principles we're going to go ahead and uh base this review on this was 95 of your your uh your workload because the other five percent was other duties as assigned right right yeah some some light admin some clerical yeah you had to do something to answer the phone right so you got uh let's talk about the ethics side. I'm going to go ahead and say you don't appear to have any.

You know, you were doing really well until you talked about the child rape last year. I don't know if you remember that with Stephen Fry. There was a child rape. You remember that? You said right kind. Yeah, you said right kind of child rape. Yeah, you're fired. Yeah.

Well, yeah, I know that you qualified it to identify the right. But what you have to understand is that you can't use those words together. That's not. It's like saying there's a right kind of genocide. I'm right. Exactly. Yeah, but it's the right kind of genocide. It's the one where we're killing Jews.

So it's the totally right kind of genocide. It's the one where we're killing Jews. So that's, it's the totally right kind of genocide. It's the good kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is Cecil, like it's the right kind. Like you see, like I'm trying to,

like, as we're talking, like I'm trying to make a joke by like adding hyperbole to it. Like it's the right kind of, but the, because the worst thing I can think of is like, it's like, what's the right kind of fuck what is actually

worse everything else is like everything else is like it's just sort of like on par it's like what's the right kind of comparison oh it all pales in comparison and i think you know this sort of goes back to i think the previous story right because clearly the guy in the previous story was talking about uganda and how uganda sort of is this group of people that are standing up to the homosexuals, standing up against homosexuals. And I feel like if you're going to be that guy, if you're going to be that guy who says Uganda is doing the right thing, then you've got to be OK with child rape. Yep. doing the right thing, then you've got to be okay with child rape. Yep.

Then I think you've got to be on board and say, well, as long as it's a guy raping a girl, then that's natural. Then that's okay. That's a thing that, you know, hey, look, it's a man and a woman and that's what God wants. And, you know, look, that's just the way things are going to be. I think you've got to be on board with it if you're cool with Uganda. And I think that, you know, more than anything, this is a telling way to say, you know, look, this is what Ugandans believe, because this is the guy. This is the guy who's

shaping their ethics and integrity. And, you know, this is the direct result of Christian missionary work of evangelical Christian missionary work. Like that's where this comes from. Like this is all this is a fucking export. That's what this is. This mindset is the result of the export of this hateful fucking worldview. I mean, that really is, like, where this comes from. It doesn't come from anywhere else. That is specifically where this comes from.

It's like, you know, the evangelicals are recognizing that they're losing the cultural battle, the larger cultural battle here in the States and across Western Europe and really across like the Western educated world, for example. Like they're losing the cultural battle and they're going to continue to lose. Like there's not going to be, we're never going to roll back our rights. We're never going to say like, oh yeah, we're going to continue to lose. Like, there's not going to be, we're never going to roll back our rights. We're never going to say, like, oh, yeah, we're going to start discriminating again. Like, that's not going to happen. That's just not how this shit works. So you have to find new places to try to evangelize to because they're trying to build a utopia.

Well, nice fucking utopia you built. When the ethics dude is like, it's natural for men to rape girls. It's fucking not natural for people to rape any people. Like there is no natural, like there's no natural pecking order to raping people. The only thing Uganda has in common with utopia is they both start with you. Right. That's as close as you get. You're all dead.

Oh, be nice. Oh, my son doesn't stand a chance. The whole world's gone gay. Oh, my God. What's happening now? We work hard. We play hard. Everybody dance now.

So this next story comes from The Telegraph. Arizona passes law allowing shopkeepers to refuse to serve gay people now um this law was actually vetoed um by the uh governor uh jan brewer she vetoed the law the law passed so it passed the house it passed the senate in arizona went to the governor the governor vetoed it um fucking good i'm glad the governor vetoed it like that's a you know but the reason that the most of the reasons that i heard cited incidentally for the veto were economic reasons yeah you know a lot of people were concerned that they were going to lose like the super bowl i think i think they're up for the super bowl yeah next year and mccain was talking about tourism yeah and you know i mean and rightfully

so because like people will look at that and say like well this is not a state like and arizona's like that that's a state that people retire to like that's yeah that's a that's a move to arizona state you know that's that's just one of those places like florida like it's just it's a state people eventually move to and that's that's part of how their economy works is betting on that like well and then they also would have had to supply state-provided shirts with the red letter LGBTQ on it, and it was really hard to get all those embroidered on one shirt. And it costs a lot of money. That embroidery is not cheap. Well, and nobody was willing to do it.

Everybody just refused service. Essentially, there was just no way to go around this bill. They couldn't force those people to wear those shirts. But see, so it's an interesting law that – and I think you and I kind of wanted to talk that, you know, the problem is not solved. It's a good thing. Don't get me wrong. It's a good thing that this law was vetoed. I wish they had been vetoed because it was abhorrent and, you know, morally despicable. But I'm also, I have to say that I'm kind of glad that the economics are clearly pointing out that laws like this are not beneficial. You know, if you can't stop bigotry through ethics, you know, like if you can't get your fucking Ugandan ethics minister on board, then maybe money will talk.

Maybe this shit, eventually people will just say, look, this is a fucking losing proposition. We are going to lose money. Maybe people who care so little about the rights of other people will fucking care about their checkbook instead. Because if you can't get them to give a shit about humans, maybe you can get them to give a shit about their bank account. So we're going to take a short break, give you some information on how to contact and donate to the show, and we'll be back right after this. on how to contact and donate to the show, and we'll be back right after this. If you would like to contact the show, visit the website for the links to the Facebook, Twitter, Google+, and email accounts. You can also call and leave a message at

That's Did you know that you can become a patron of the show? Go to Did you know that you can become a patron of the show? Go to patreon.com. That's p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com forward slash dissonance pod. And you can donate to the production of Cognitive Dissonance on a per episode basis. If you don't want to donate money, please take a moment to give us a good review on iTunes or Stitcher. Or tell a like-minded friend about the show. So to everyone who supports the show, glory hole. You fucking rock.

So this story comes from the Raw Story. Pro-life Virginia senator values rights of fetus over those of host, which some refer to as mothers. Virginia State Senator Steve Martin declared that mothers are merely a child's host on Facebook. He did take that down and revise it, incidentally. God, people are so stupid with their Facebook accounts. These people need to learn how to use Facebook. I'm always in shock at these people. I would not be surprised if this guy tweeted a pic of his genitals. Like I would just be like,

yeah, that's just, that's just, he just does not understand social media. And he's going to be like, I took it down. I took it down. I don't know why it just didn't go away.

Like, right. Yeah. What he actually said. So I just want to read it so that it's not out of context. He said, great. However,

once a child does exist in your wound, in your womb, I'm not going to assume a right to kill it just because the child's host, and then in parentheses, some refer to them as mothers, doesn't want it. So it's not like anybody's taking this out of context.

Right, right. He is the one specifically devaluing. You know, I want to talk about the language I think that he's using here because I think the language is the most important part. And the language I think does matter. I think when you refer to a woman as the host for a child rather than an expectant mother, for example, or just a woman, just using the word woman, like, cause that would have also fit just fine. Um, instead of child's host, what you're, what you're doing is, is basically calling women factories. You're saying that the reason that you exist as a human being, the reason that you exist is to produce progeny you are a housing unit you are a biological factory you are a a host

for this developing human and that's all that you exist for you don't exist you exist as a breeding machine and you as an individual you're so unimportant that you no longer have agency you no longer even get to be named independently you are now named as a subordinate to the child that you are gestating fuck that is that is a worldview that is impossibly misogynistic. You got, you wind up getting a lot of shit because of, uh, you said is a woman, a host,

you know, and then a bunch of people were like, yeah, she is. And you know, there are a couple of definitions out there that say a parasite is a, um, an organism that feeds off another organism.

And then there's other ones that say that it's a species, different species has to be different species, et cetera. But people were kind of saying, yeah, semantically, yes. And that's, I think, missing the point. I think the point here is that he's clearly, like you say, devaluing women by saying that they're hosts. But the weird thing, I think the weirdest thing for me, Tom, is that if he considers women hosts and babies parasites, why is he not OK with abortion? Like part of me thinks if you're going to talk about it in a scientific sense like that, why wouldn't we be – why would you suddenly have such a – I don't know, want to protect the parasite in that situation? It feels like you're not only devaluing the mother.

You're devaluing the baby too you're devaluing the thing that's inside of her as well with the language that you're choosing to use which is clearly the wrong kind of dumb language to use in the first place but you're you you don't even understand your own your own devaluing. Yeah, right? I mean, I totally agree with that, man. Like, by choosing this language, I mean, you're purposely creating a false remove as if you were not born of a mother as well, like as if you were not a parasite. I mean, just because a parasite emerges

from its fucking host doesn't mean it's not a parasite anymore. It's just a parasite that is no longer within its host. So he's a fucking parasite. Right. I mean, we all are by the same crazy, cracked, lunatic logic. We are all vagina bursters. Right.

Exactly. This is not it's just not a useful way to have a conversation about like what it means to be human. And like if that's – if the abortion conversation is not a conversation about what does it mean to be human, when does our humanity begin? When is it important to call ourselves human? When do we have this conversation about what is the value of, of humanity? What is the value of life? If that's not,

if that's not part of the conversation, if instead we're going to create this sort of false remove and we're going to say like some call them mothers. Yeah. You know who calls them mothers? All people across the world. All the people. Yeah.

You know, cause that's nobody here didn't come from one. Like it's a fucking stupid thing to say like would this guy would this guy honestly would he like would he say like hey host when he goes home for fucking thanksgiving dinner and his fucking mom is there and she's like oh and she not just because she's the host of thanksgiving dinner though no i mean like totally different yeah i say it's at aunt suzy's house right there you go well i i thought that the that the point of the church was to worship god and the boy fucking was just incidental no it's just the other way around the point of the church

is the boy fucking all the other stuff is just busy work so this story comes from the raw story church officials blame minnesota mom for not protecting sons from priests who abused them. Minnesota mother says the Catholic Church officials are blaming her for not protecting her two sons from the priest who abused them. This priest, by the way, clearly looks crazy in this picture. Yeah, he looks like he's intently staring at the person who's taking his mugshot that's for sure he looks like he's sizing that person up to see

how much of that person will fit in his freezer later no he's looking he's like there's a paper clip on the desk I think I could take I know so this is fucking ridiculous like the response to her lawsuit the response the archdiocese response was she was aware of the time spent with mr uh weimer and she knew that

such interaction was contrary to established archdiocese policy that can't be fucking real man that's crazy to me that somebody would say it's we are basically saying look you know what the snake was right are you serious are we serious that we're basically gonna have to put a fucking surgeon general warning on priests from now on do not allow near children like priests are suddenly more dangerous than x-rays to children you know they're just like you know but instead of wearing like a lead fucking vest you gotta wear locking pants around the place right like that's like the fucking fda has got to come up be like okay we've got to figure out a way to okay so we wear lead vests for x-rays let's see what can we do for ah we'll just put them in fucking like locking diapers until they're fucking 20

when they're around priests are you serious what are they fucking wild animals like what do you i think it's like a fucking Do you have to keep them in a cage when they're not given the sermon? These are human beings that you entrust with dozens, if not hundreds of other people. I think the way to do this, Cecil, is to put them in giant hamster balls.

Like, as soon as they get there. They have to roll around all the time. They roll down the aisle in a big hamster ball. It's a pain in the ass to get the communion then because they have to do the communion with those big rubber gloves sticking out. And they're just like, here you go, body of Christ. They roll down the aisle of the church in a little hamster ball. The parsonage has just got like cedar chips instead of

and the thing is the communion is just like a little pellet like it's like a little tiny like little just like a little hard green and then the water has like the ball bearing in it so this is like the communal wine it's like you have to get it from one of those like clickety clickety click. And you have to like press your face up against the ball player and you get the dribble water in there. The worst part of the job is when you have to swing that incense thing because it's really. Oh, yeah. It just fills the whole ball full of smoke. Yeah, it's smoke.

And it just like rolls around. You're like, I can't see anything. God, I'm choking in here. We lose more priests this way. I will say that he gets a good sound out of that i mean like it reverberates around the whole audience you just picture like all the kids like lining up and like bouncing a priest back and forth hey stop that he's rolling around the only other thing i can think of is if you put them in shock collar right right so they come near a child by themselves. The collar just goes off to incapacitate them until somebody else can come

around. It sets up an alarm. It's like a car alarm and a shock collar. So it basically puts them completely on the ground shaking and an alarm goes off until another adult is nearby. Right? Yeah. It's like,

it doesn't sense like somebody over the age of 18 yeah it just goes off it just immediately goes off uh we have a priest in the building that's uh we have a priest in the building you just like put everything on lockdown all the time i mean seriously if this is your fucking defense then these things are not fucking that far off. I know. I mean, really, because you're basically saying, like, priests are fucking, they're contestants in the running man. Yeah.

Right? Right? I mean, it's just ridiculous. Like, oh, man, you know, like, every priest is, like, an escaped convict. Well, like, how does the conversation work? It's like, hey, lady, you let your kids be alone the conversation work it's like hey lady you let your kids be alone with them it's like the counter argument is that is yes but i didn't think he was

going to rape them you know like yeah i let i mean i leave i leave my son in the care of other people from time to time with the assumption that nobody's going to rape him right right like that's a pretty rational assumption what the fuck you can't just be like well come on lady he's a priest what'd you think he was gonna do and and you know how absurd is this fucking idea right we look at this and we're like are you fucking kidding me that you're gonna say this out loud but this is a common defense that people use all the time in rape cases i mean constantly they're just like oh on, you knew the guy was a guy and he had a penis.

I mean, come on, you know? So constantly this sort of logic is touted all the time when it comes to, you know, a rape case. So this is just no different. It's just saying, well, come on, you knew he was a priest. You knew those guys just play those kids like the fucking banjo.

Well, you know, it's based on that like that that fucking really obnoxious and offensive assumption that all men are sexual predators at heart like that there's nothing that like that it's only opportunity right because this only speaks to opportunity oh god right this speaks to one thing and it's opportunity so they're basically saying like, hey, you gave him the opportunity. So it really is saying like all men are all men are sexual predators. And if you give them the opportunity, they're going to prey on whoever they can prey on. And that's it. You know what sucks about this?

I think the most is like is like because of this sort of stigma that exists. I can't take my nephews with me camping alone. Yeah. No, that's true. You know what I mean? Because it would be weird. People would be like, whoa, what the fuck? Like, you're taking your nephews out alone?

Your fucking four and eight-year-old nephew are going to go, what's going on there? Yeah. I'm taking them camping. Right. But instead, it's like like because this stigma exists we i mean it's that is a fucking that's a no-brainer there's no way i would do that yeah i know i know i mean it's not worth it it's not worth like the the weird looks that you would get or the you know the potential i mean what you know i i mean i'll be honest like i've

got a seven-year-old but like if i saw a strange kid in the mall or something run up to me, I would help that kid, but I won't touch him. In fact, there was a time here in my neighborhood when I moved in, and I know I told you this story. There was a little kid who, like, fucking pulled some Houdini shit and, like, got out of his house. Got out of the house. Yeah, I remember.

It was a pre-verbal kid in a diaper walking down the sidewalk there was no adult around and i got out of my car and i stood around and i made sure the kid didn't walk into the street and i looked for an adult you know that would own the kid yep and but i did there's no way i was going to pick that kid up there's no way and it would have been totally different for a woman to do that. Like a woman would have picked that kid up, swoop him right up, walk him somewhere. A woman with two young boys somewhere camping, again, not an issue. Sure, those people would probably think I'm the boy's father if they didn't know any better. And clearly people probably thought the same thing with here. Like this is the boy's father.

He was their father but in a different way. Same thing with here. Right. Like this is the boy's father. He was their father, but in a different way. Right. You know, clearly, you know, there's there's a you either have to be related, I think, or, you know, you just wouldn't have because I certainly wouldn't ask my sister in law if I could take their boys camping. You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers? I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. So this story comes from opposing views.com representative Paul Brown vows to vote only for biblical laws. Um, representative Paul Brown, a Republican from Georgia, uh, is running for the U S Senate promise voters last Saturday. He will only vote for laws based on Judeo Christian biblical principles. If somebody can explain to me what that means. Oh, I got you, Tom. I got you. Okay. I can. Yes. So I found on Wikipedia, there's 613 commandments in the Old Testament. And I want to

read a couple if you don't mind. Do it. So now a couple of these are okay. I mean, I think some of these are okay. Like not to embarrass others. Leviticus 19, 17 is not to embarrass others. Leviticus 1917 is not to embarrass others. Not to oppress the weak is one. Exodus 22 21. Not to speak derogatorily of others. Leviticus 19 16. Not to take revenge. 1918. Not to bear a grudge. 1918.

And then they start getting a little weird. Like, here's one. It's like, not to erect a pillar in a public place of worship. 16 22. Not to bow down before a smooth stone. Leviticus Here's one. It's like, not to erect a pillar in a public place of worship. Dudo 2016-22. Not to bow down before a smooth stone. Leviticus 26-1. Wait, wait, wait, slow down, slow down. Because I was with you for the first half dozen there.

Yeah, no, yeah, they were pretty good, weren't they? Yeah, no, the erect a pillar, dude, you can't do that in a public place of worship. So the Washington Monument is no good? Clearly not a good idea. And you can't bow down before it because it's smooth. So you can't, no matter what you do. And also, you can't plant a tree in a temple courtyard

according to Deuteronomy 1621. You also can't mutter incantations. Deuteronomy. I can't pronounce that. I want to say Deuteronomy. Just say it, Deuteronomy. I like it. I like it better that way. 1811. Now we get a little weird when we start getting near the end here. Well, not near the end, because I still have hundreds to go, but I only went up to

150. So here's one. A widow must not remarry until the ties with her brother-in-law are removed. until the ties with her brother-in-law are removed. Another one is the rapist must marry the victim if unwed, that's Deuteronomy 22, 29. But then there's a whole bunch in a row and I'm not going to read where they're from. A lot of them are from Leviticus, actually. I think all of these are from Leviticus. I'm going to read them right in a row.

Not to have sexual relations with your mother. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife, which I thought was your mother. Not to have sexual relations with your sister. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's which I thought was your mother. Not to have sexual relations with your sister. Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter, which again, I think is your sister. Not to have relations with your son's daughter, which I think is your granddaughter. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter. Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter.

Again, your granddaughter. Not to have sexual relations with your woman and her daughter. You can't do that. I've seen so many porns with that. Come on. Not to have sexual relations with the woman and her daughter. You can't do that. I've seen so many porns with that. Come on. Not to have sexual relations with the woman and her son's daughter. Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter. Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister, your mother's sister, your father's

brother's wife, your son's wife, your brother's wife, your wife's sister. Not to have sexual relations with an animal. Not to have sexual relations. A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal. A man can't have sexual relations with an animal. Not to have sexual relations. A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal. A man can't have sexual relations with another man. Not to have sexual relations with your father, your father's brother, somebody else's wife, or a mentally impure woman. That's all in a row. Wow.

You can't fuck anything. You literally can't fuck anything. I love that they have to list. They're like, it's not just your mother. It's your father's wife. So those hot stepmom porns, that's totally wrong. Against Leviticus 8, 18-8, like mad. Man.

You know, like when it says you can't have sex with your daughter. It's like, did you have to write that down? Did somebody have to write that shit down? Like somebody says like, oh man, that's a good one, Bob. Write that one down. You know, clearly priests need to know that, though. Oh, man. We got to get that.

Get him out of his hamster wheel. We're going to let him. Whatever you get him out of his hamster wheel. Actually, leave him in his hamster wheel. Just press a, I don't know, just press a porn up against the cover or whatever. It's so funny. And there's so many more I mean there's a there's a bunch of these not to eat uh ripened grains from the new grain before the omer I don't even know what why are you saying those words there's 613 they're all crazy and this guy would vote for every one of these yes and the funny

thing is is it's like it's like this is thing is, it's like, this is a commandment, right? This is a commandment not to have sexual relations with a menstrually impure woman. That's a command. Is that something this dipshit would sign into law? Be like, oh, well, it passes the fucking three C's or four C's. Right. Also the four C's that describe who I am. Are you a fucking, are you like a student in Mrs. Johnson's 10th grade speech class?

I know. I mean, seriously. The four C's that describe who I am. I love when people do stuff like that because it's like, you know what? I'm so simple minded I can be boiled down into four words. Wow. Hey, way to go there. Cunt.

Cocksucker. Yeah. Well done. Way not to be complex that's great yeah yeah that's that's phenomenal um you know it's funny because it's like i read this and i'm like well what would you do about the farm bill you know like if there's not you just he's not even like allowed to vote for it he can't vote yay or nay he's fucking strong yeah because there's no gun there's clearly no guns in the Bible. Right.

And the Bible is really contradictory about violence and about like weaponry. Right. What this means is this guy is basically saying, you know, I mean,

obviously we're fucking playing around here, but what this guy is basically saying is I am a, I understand the Bible and can interpret it to vote how I see fit. Yes. Vote for your.

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, that's what he said, because, you know, clearly there's nothing in there about whether or not, you know, you know, some of these crazy bills that are going on with a budget for the fucking government or something. You know, right. Clearly, that's not a thing you're going to vote on fucking with your Christian ideals. You're just going to be like okay well it

fits my constituents that's what should be one of your c's actually is yeah right why is that never anybody sees like people are like yeah well here's some shit about me it's like well really maybe you could pay attention to me so we're back uh at the end of the show here we're talking to thomas from atheistically speaking and from Thomas in the Bible. Now, Thomas, I got to ask, like, do you get these sort of like late night phone calls from the Bible now being like, Thomas, I know you're seeing David. I know you're seeing him behind my back. I know. Will he go down on you in the theater, Thomas? Will he go down on you in a theater? Did you forget about me

i i fucking love elance more said i'm not gonna laugh okay yeah um i don't know if you know this or maybe listeners of your show um of which there are so many who might check out my my bible Bible show or think that because I have this new show that I'm doing my show less. Au contraire. I've been doubling the fuck down on Thomas and the Bible, and I've laid down like 50 goddamn episodes. Yeah, I saw. You're just pumping them out like crazy.

Yeah, no one's listening to them or anything, but they just go right into the air. Everyone's like, ugh. I listened to it back when he did like crazy. Yeah, no one's listening to them or anything, but they just go right into the air. Everyone's like, ugh. I listened to it back when he did like one a month, but I'm not going to listen to this. No, I looked at my schedule and realized I had fallen so far behind, so I picked the target date

that was supposed to be the end date the whole time, which is next May, like May 2015. Whoa. And what is it, like an apocalyptic uh prediction um geez and i prediction if you fucking finish the bible by your end date exactly it's not gonna fucking happen yeah i know i i laid out the whole schedule and i realized i have to do about one every three days in order to get that done so i've been doing it shit yeah i've been doing that's a lot of bibling i mean i can't that's a lot of bible i. That's a lot of bibling, my friend.

I can't do it exactly one every three days, but if I get behind, I put out two and catch up just because of schedule-wise. Let me ask you, are you into it at this point? Sometimes it takes a while to get into a book. Oh, yeah. I like to give the first three, four hundred pages. Are you into it? pages yeah are you really like are you into it like do you just find like you're like reading through the bible and like you do that thing where you're reading a really great book and you look up and like a couple of hours have passed and you're sort of disoriented like wow i'm all curled up

just with the right yeah like your fucking cup of chamomile tea like covered in like nine caps i'll tell you it's about the opposite because i just had i just read what was supposedly what some famous poet i forget who called the bet you know some of the greatest writing of all time well in the book of job which was the shittiest thing of all time where um it explained how uh shittiest thing of all time pretty much no now it's not quite as bad as all the arc talk like that's the that's the building of the arc stuff low bar but job was close because it's not quite as bad as all the Ark talk. Like that's the low bar. The building of the Ark stuff is good. The low bar. But Job was close because it's so repetitive and it masqueraded under the idea that it was going to be like this complex theological thought.

But basically the conclusion that I believe you're supposed to come to is that good things don't always happen to good people. And bad things can sometimes happen to good people and bad things can sometimes happen to good people because you need to be able to love God. Like even if he just treats you like shit and kills your family, you still need to be able to love him. Like the devil comes in or Satan, who actually, it's curious. It's a curious fact. They don't do much introduction on Satan. They just say like, oh, and then Satan came by and he tends to roam the earth and God's like, oh, hey, Satan. There's no

backstory. It's really weird. I had no idea. You just haven't gotten to the prequel yet. That's the thing. The prequel often comes after. If it has Jar Jar Binks in it, I'm done. That's Satan. Me's a fuck with Job.

Yeah. Oh, what the hell was I talking about? Oh, yeah. So, and then right when you smash, you finish that book of Job, which you almost can say like, hmm, maybe there was some kind of thought happening here. And then you get to Psalms. And every single fucking Psalm I've read read so far i've read about 30 um because they're pretty short is oh god please punish my enemies and reward me because i'm so

good it's like what what did i just read i just read a bunch of stuff about how good things bad things sometimes happen to good people and now i have to read a bunch of prayers where you're like please kill all my enemies because they're assholes and they're not me. It's like, what am I reading? What is the point of this? It's horrifying. But anyway, I want to talk about my other podcast more. Yeah, I want you to talk about your other podcast too. Yes.

Yes. Atheistically speaking, we are really trying to talk about in a very fair and detailed and... Nope. Stop. What? Who's we? David and I, who's on the show.

Yeah. Okay. David's an old friend of mine from college who I contacted to do this show. Incredibly smart guy. He has actual knowledge. I have bullshit knowledge, but he has actual knowledge of philosophy and a degree in physics and philosophy. And he's a very smart guy and, and, uh, I, I really wanted to do the show with him because I knew that, you know, he'd actually pinned down like my weird, crazy thoughts that may or may not be right. And I could actually be able to tell me like, that's stupid and that's not stupid pretty much. Um, cause otherwise I'm just left to a spiral out of control.

And, uh, yeah. Um, yeah, we noticed that like, yeah. Wow. Uh, but, uh, so it's a perfect balance because I can tend to make things pretty funny, I think. But still, we can both have a really – conversations I think need to have within atheism because there's so much infighting. It's not that we all necessarily need to be united on every single thing, but we just want to get to the bottom of a lot of the issues that atheists have with one another.

You know, there are just so many differences, like the ones we kind of talked about already. You know what? On one of your first episodes, you said, and I'm going to paraphrase, but you said something like, there's plenty of shows that say, hey, look at this kid who got herpes from a rabbi. Ha, ha, ha. That makes me mad. What exactly do you mean by that, Thomas? What do you mean by that thomas what do you mean by that is uh oh don't tell me in this very show you had a story about like some kid getting herpes i bet you had like thomas we've done that that's not a joke that gets old it turns out yeah yeah um yeah i honestly this is awesome this is awesome he's so uncomfortable

right now if like if you could hear somebody be flustered and blushing right now that's not you give me too much credit i have no shame no honestly i i just don't i was kind of cracking a joke about it because I always crack jokes. But I don't – I mean you guys in like Noah's show, you know, like you got that covered. I don't think I could do any better job of making fun of – and just the sheer volume of religious news you're able to find. Like I don't think I – I had no interest in competing with that, if you know what I mean. You guys have it covered. I'm not really – I don't want to get into that line of business. I don't even want competing with that, if you know what I mean. You guys have it covered. I'm not really – I don't want to get into that line of business. We don't even want to read that religious news.

Are you kidding me? No, but also just your resourcefulness. You always have so many – I just – I don't think I could do that. So I really wanted to – I was, of course, cracking a joke about it. But I really didn't want to be that kind of show because I think there are plenty of people doing a very good job at that. And I, you know, I, we wanted to sort of be doing something different. I think, I think we are, I hope we are. So what's the, give us a, like a couple of show topics, like a couple of things you talked

about. Okay. Like, uh, for one, oh, we, we did cover the atheist churches topic. Uh, that was a quick one. Um, like I alluded to in this episode, I mean, whether or not atheists should gather. There are so many atheists who think like, oh, you can't gather, then you're just as bad as the religious. And it's like, well, no, not really. I don't really think that's true. Yeah, I mean, taking community, I mean, the idea that community is somehow

inherently religious is ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, it doesn't have to be religious. It can be a community can be sort of formed around anything. And just so happens that we all have this commonality that we want to form a community on. What's the big deal? Exactly. I've said it a million times. The problem with religion is not church. And if you think it's church, then I think you're kind of missing the point. Like you're, there are people who might just be so antisocial that they think the problem with religion is like, oh, they all get together or something. I don't, I don't know what it is. I don't know how they talk to each other. Yeah. Why, if you replaced all the religious nonsense, you, you just have a club, you know, like, I don't, I mean, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't, I would never fucking go.

Yeah. I was going to ask you, would you go to an atheist church? Is that something that you'd be interested in? Or do you find community elsewhere? Well, first off, I think we gave some very long answers to that in the episode that I probably definitely won't have time to pollute your show with. So check that. I think that was episode five. You guys want to,

if your listeners might want to check that out. Um, but the short answer is, um, I might, I started off the episode thinking I, I'm not interested mainly because football's on during church time. That's the main,

that's the main drawback of, that's actually the only problem with religion. I'm, I'm totally changing my tune. It's completely, it's totally fine. Except, except they have church during football. like what the fuck are they thinking there was like a saturday

night church yeah no problem as long as there's no saturday game sure sure it's true and you're not into college ball yeah that's fine problem is is that problem is is that nfl now is like monday thursday sometimes saturday and sunday so really you don't you don't have a lot of choice it's the greatest problem that there could ever be it It needs to be every fucking day. But anyway, no, I'm just I think that it should not be during football. So that would be step one if it wasn't during football. And I could see going, especially if they had like an interesting speaker. I like that. That's my favorite thing about the the little gatherings that I've seen, you know, just in the news. I haven't actually been to one, but they usually have like a scientist or somebody to do almost

a TED type talk, you know, and that's really fascinating. I might be inclined to go. I'm not a very, I'm not a very social person. I'm kind of an introvert. I like to kind of hang out and do my, just with my Bible, you know, curled up with tea, cats, Bible. Lots of cats. I'm really, I'm really, I read the word. I'm Bible, you know, curled up with tea, cats, Bible, lots of cats. I'm really, I'm really, uh, I read the word.

I'm really, you know, I'm all about the word in my life. No. Um, so just a single word, you crack it open. You're like, there's more than one in here. This is going to take much longer than I thought. They always call it the word here. I thought I could lose. Nice.

Um, yeah. I saw the word. Here I thought I could read it. It's a ruse. Nice. Yeah. So, but I ended up that episode thinking like, well, maybe I would want to go to this. I might have to check it out sometime if there are any in my area. But then I'm too lazy and I forget. So, but another episode, actually one that was really popular was discussing someone wrote an article about atheism being a privilege for the wealthy. And that was highly freaking frustrating. But, and I think that's maybe why the episode was so popular is a lot of people maybe saw that and thought like, yeah, this must be bullshit somehow. And our goal is to try to, I mean, we discuss it, we research and we think a lot on these things and maybe we'll be able to find, you know, we discuss it, we, we research and we, we think a lot on these things

and maybe we'll be able to find, you know, maybe you'll disagree with us. And we also read a lot of comments where people might disagree or have different points on stuff. Uh, we just want to, we just want to have a really, the best discussion we can have, you know, and, and we're not, we're not, we don't have like a singular agenda per se, but sometimes we tend to agree on things. And there, there are a few things that I do emphasize that I wish more atheists did believe. Like, for example, the church not being the problem with the religion thing. Like I very much disagree with atheists who think that's true. And I but I don't there aren't many things where I like go into it.

I have an agenda. I want to try to like convince other people of it. You know, have you guys thought about doing a show about atheism and homosexuality and how they seem to be sort of allies right now? Yeah, that's an interesting one. Um, I, we've alluded to that definitely, but that could, I mean, I think that would be one where I'd, I'd, I'd want to find someone, maybe a guest to come on and, and who, who could speak more about it than I could. I don't have tons of experience with that. But yeah, that's definitely the kind of stuff. Well, you could just be gay for a little while. I mean, you could just try that. Oh, I'll do that.

It's a choice. I'm just saying. I mean, not forever. The other Republicans say that all the time. They say that you could just be gay. Sometimes journalists really need to get, you know, they need to go undercover. They need to get into their story. You know, so is that what you're saying? I'll tell you. I'll tell you. You know, a great guest for that would be Greta Christina.

Sure. Hook me up. Don't you think, Tom? Yeah, I think she would do a killer job. I think she would be really interesting. She's a very thoughtful person. Absolutely. I'm not trying to exclude.

I mean, we're still building the show, and I think it's growing really fast. Yeah, I think any guest who would be willing to come on, I pretty much would have, as long as they have something interesting to say. Well, that precludes us, Cecil. You've got to have something interesting to say. I sent you a... Not only did I not

invite you guys, I sent you a non-invitation. Like, this is... You're not invited to come on my show. Yeah, I got that. I RSVP'd. Thanks. Please RSVP. Please confirm you will not be attending what you have not been invited to.

No, I'd love to have you guys on any time, man. I'll definitely not be there. That sounds not great. Yeah, we had Noah on. We had Jake on. I think you guys have both done stuff with them. Yeah, we've done stuff with them for sure. Mostly gay sex.

No, that's what I meant. You know, it's funny. It's like that pastor. Did you read about that pastor who's trying out atheism for a year? Yeah, I did see that. That strikes me as like trying out the gay for a year. Or just for a short time. You just try out – how do you try out – what are your thoughts on that?

How do you try out atheism? How can you be a religious person who just tries it out? I saw that headline. I didn't read the detail of it, so I don't know how much he said about it. But I imagine it would be very difficult to do so earnestly. Like if you really – I mean, if you really believe something, I don't know how you can just, okay,

I'm going to not believe that for arbitrary length of time. That's, I don't, I don't think I have that ability to like, okay, I'm going to fundamentally change a belief just because I want to like, yeah, I can change my mind if I,

you know, read something or whatever. But the idea that you can just flip a switch and that, that you're, and that you're really going to be living as an atheist, you know, like I don't, I I'm skeptical, but I don't know. I didn't, I also didn't hear him explain it. Maybe he explained it really well or something. I don't know.

No, he didn't. He's just like, I'm just not going to pray. Yeah. Pretty much. He's like, I'm not going to go through the motions. Oh, he just sounds lazy then. I know, right? I read the same thing and I was like, that sounds kind of great.

That sounds like a guy who just wants to watch football to me. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of religious people. Right. Yeah. And you're not good at any of the effort for a year. Yeah. It'd be like if you went to work and you're like, I'm trying out homelessness for a week.

I'm going to try. I'm trying out masturbating at work for a week. Keep paying me. I need my paycheck still. But I'm just going to not... I'm not working for a year. I'm doing a social experiment in not working here anymore. I've got to ask a question now.

I've listened to several of your shows. Thomas and the Bible is a very different show because it's a one-man show and you are trying to be funny. What about this show? What's the level of humor that people can expect? Is it going to be a different level?

It's definitely a different level. We mainly have serious discussions, to be honest. I cannot help but inject humor into things. It's in a different level. I mean, we mainly have serious discussions, to be honest. I cannot help but inject humor into things. It's just kind of how I, you know, it's in my hard wiring. And I'm actually, I think both me and David are pretty pleased with it because he's very much not funny. He will freely admit it. Oh, no!

No, I don't mean it in any bad way. Like, he honestly, he's one of those guys that's just like, yeah, I'm not funny. I don't really, he just't mean it in any bad way. Like, he honestly, he's one of those guys that's just like, yeah, I'm not funny. I don't really. He just comes by it honestly. But he's probably exaggerating. I mean, he's had some funny lines in the show occasionally, but he's not looking to do that. And it's not really his job in the show.

But hey, if someone wants to do my job occasionally, go ahead. my job occasionally go ahead uh but no there's i i think there's a a level of humor that's um sort of like when you see almost any serious talk there's there are some level of jokes in there like i mean uh hitchens will make you laugh constantly but he's still talking about serious stuff not i'm saying i'm that good i'm better no I'm not even close to that good. But that... You're still alive. That's true. You got that going for you. You got a game set and match. Boom!

There is that. I'd say that's the one thing I have over Hitchens. I mean, you're way within there. I'd say that's the only point on which I may be beating Hitchens. Maybe. So yeah, to finish that answer, I mean, I definitely make jokes. And I think we're very happy with the balance of, you know, serious discussion and it's, but it's, it's not boring. It's very, it's interesting questions. I mean, it's the both of us as atheists view life. And, and, um, it was, it was very honest. Like I, I find life pretty depressing sometimes. And,

um, I, we honestly got into it, stuff like that. I don't know. I find it fascinating. I think that you have a very interesting take on this because there's plenty of, like you said, you know, when you were joking around, like there's plenty of ha ha ha this baby died sort of podcast that's hilarious there are i don't really have and then there's there's also i think a lot of podcasts that are uh that are fighting against religion and that are taking apart the religious thought so they're going after saying yeah this bible thought is this and this is wrong and this and this. You guys have a very fresh look, I think, on atheism because you are specifically talking about atheism. You're not talking about it in relation – I mean you are talking about it in relation to other things, but that's not an overarching theme. Right.

The theme itself is atheism, and then it branches out from there. And I think it's a very fresh look at what, I mean, I guess at the thought, because there's a lot of different takes on what it means to be atheist. And you guys are sort of tackling the sort of, it's sort of almost like a meta podcast. Yeah, it is. I mean, I think that in some ways we do bill it as that sort of meta atheism. That's not to say, I mean, I do like to bring up certain apologetics, kind of this argument is bad for the following reasons sometimes because I think it's important. And I think that no matter how much there are a lot of atheists who honestly don't even want to argue with religious people because they think it's not worth it or they think that

they're above it or maybe, or I don't know why they, I think to some, on some level, you need to do that and you need to be able to engage religious people if you want. I mean we need to change the system at some point. I mean something has got to give. Eventually we need to be able to elect someone who doesn't believe in a sky fairy. Like at some point as president, as leader of the most powerful country. At some point, as president, as leader of the most powerful country. So I think on some level, OK, I guess I'll say to sum it up, what we're doing with this show is definitely, like I mentioned earlier, we're not doing it as though no other podcast is important. I don't ever want to imply like, OK, if you're an apologetics podcast.

No, I got that impression. Actually, that's in my notes right here. So I should revise that? You misunderstood me. Your podcast isn't important. Oh, good, good. But not every other podcast. And that's enough for Thomas for this week. I think that there's a certain level that there can be futility, especially... And I speak as someone who does a podcast where I'm going through the Bible.

I don't pretend like I'm being above all all other atheists who are making fun of religion. I do that in the Bible a lot. And I don't know that my podcast is ever going to convert anyone. I would highly doubt it. But I think podcasts like mine and probably your guys, I think you would probably agree that it's mainly just almost like a relief for atheists. It's a source of just kind of like, yeah, I'm glad to have someone who agrees with me and it's kind of relaxing because every day you're faced with so many religious people in your life all around in this country. Your boss will be religious, your co-workers will be religious. It stresses you out sometimes. And I think,

I'll just speak for my Bible show. I think that I'm not under the illusion that that's going to convert anybody. I mean, I would highly doubt it, but that's, I don't think that's the point. So I think it's good to have all different kinds of podcasts that are doing whatever. And I've said that in a show, in one of our episodes. I think that atheists tend to infight a lot and criticize each other, like whenever there's a billboard that comes out, there's a thousand criticisms on it. And after we did a podcast where we talked about an atheist billboard, I sort of was drawn to the conclusion. Oh, that was the one with Noah, actually. So check that one out. I was drawn to the conclusion that, you know, maybe this isn't that important to be criticizing how everyone is presenting their atheism. Maybe as long as they're making a good faith effort and they're not out there saying like, hey, fuck all you religious people. Like that's probably not going to help anything.

But as long as they're... I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you know, whatever, if you think that's your approach. But as long as they're making a good faith or good not faith effort... Not faith effort. To try to advance the movement,

maybe we need to stop jumping down each other's throats so much, you know? But I know it's very kumbaya i'm feeling a lot of love like a lot of i feel like doing a drum circle again i don't mean to include you guys in this i hate it trying to say that everybody but yours is good okay Okay, do you not get this? So if they wanted to find, Thomas, if they wanted to find a good podcast about atheism, like Atheistically Speaking, where would they look? They would have to just search iTunes or Stitcher for Atheistically Speaking. And the Twitter is at SpeakAtheism. And the Facebook is Facebook.com slash Atheistically Speaking.

And we're trying to get that page to be more and more active. We get a lot of good comments on it. And a lot of people, there are so many smart atheists out there that I'm sure there are a ton listening to me right now. And we want to hear your thoughts on things. I mean, maybe you'll disagree. Maybe you'll change our minds or we'll change your mind on a given thing. Well, Thomas, thank you so much for joining us today and give our best to David. And we hope to have you guys both on again in the future.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. So we want to thank all the people who have donated money to us on Patreon. We have 40 patrons now, and I'm going to read off all their names because I don't remember who I read off last time. So if you donated last time, you get it again this time. Here we go. David, Benjamin, Terry, Ian,

William, Johan, Liam, Tom, Lynn, Michael, Thomas, Gene, Jennifer, Tate, Taisha? I didn't get corrected last time so i'm gonna go with taisha just gotta roll with it you just gotta go that was one of them randall kathleen nicholas sam mike vincent jeffrey lindsey peter mary ellett alex tom christian scott hannah david gregory Christian Scott Hannah David Gregory Mark Stephen Michael Emily Stephen Richard Anderson and Louise

thank you all very very much you are all phenomenal human beings thank you for donating to Patreon we have uh we are going to and I did this last week I'm going to keep on doing this when I finish the podcast whenever that is if I finish it on on Saturday or on Sunday, or if it's sometimes we record as early as Thursday and I can get it done Friday, sometimes Friday afternoon, whenever I get it done, I'm going to post it to Patreon. So you if you have a are a patron of the podcast, you will get it early whenever it's done. if it's early. I'm not going to make that promise that it's done early, but I'm going to say if it is done early, you will get it the day before or the couple days before, whenever it's finished. I'll load it to

Patreon as a post, and then you will get the MP3 file. You'll have to go to the website and download it, unlike the normal ways in which you'd get it, which was through Stitcher or through libsyn or through all the other ways in which you can get the podcast this way you'd have to go there directly and download it but you do get it early so we will be giving it out to people early if you're a patron we're also going to be giving people some you know little extras probably the the uh the easter eggs we normally used to put in the show those will go on patreon exclusively just so we can give some people some extra stuff if they're involved in giving to the show. Yeah, we want to give back. I mean, the idea people are kind enough to donate to Patreon and we genuinely and truly appreciate it.

The patronage helps to support the show. The show isn't free for us to do. We have to spend a lot of time we are monetary cost involved in doing the show for uh various technical things i don't understand um but i do write checks for so yeah you know it's like very true right you know and then you know we want to actually get cecil a microphone uh so he doesn't have to borrow one anymore for example you know minor things little things yeah minor things and we've got some other projects in the wings too that we would like to do

um and the patronage helps it legitimately helps uh to support the show we want to give back though um and patreon is great because it gives us an avenue to give you stuff um rather than just take so and speak speaking of giving back, next month, not this month, but next month, we're actually going to be donating all the money we get on Patreon to a charity, and we're going to let the patrons

decide what charity that is. So if you're a patron of the show, send us a message on where you think what secular charity would be a good charity. I know Doctors Without Borders is a good one. American Atheist is a good one. JREF is a good charity. I know Doctors Without Borders is a good one. American Atheist

is a good one. JREF is a good one. There's also Foundation Beyond Belief. There's plenty out there. The Red Cross. There's plenty out there that you could suggest. If you are a patron of the show and you want to suggest where your money is going to go next month, and we're talking about the money from

April, is going to go to a uh a charity of your choice so we wanted that we're going to use that money to thank people for uh for giving us money and we're going to give it away uh because we think it's the right thing to do so we got an email from uh from cindy and she says she says hi tom and cecil my husband and i wanted to let you know about an upcoming event nearby that you and your listeners might like to attend. We have gone to this the last two years, and it's a great time. We love the show. Keep the great work.

And this is Cindy and Steven. And this is FTF3. This is the Free Thought Festival. This is happening in Madison, Wisconsin. You do not need to be a University of Madison student to attend the conference, but I guess it's taking place on the university grounds. I will put together a website so you can check it out at episode 140. If you go to our website, episode 140, there will be a link to this conference. I'll find it somewhere.

I don't know that it's in this email, but I will find it somewhere. And it's the Free though, because Madison, Wisconsin is a couple hour drive for us. And I know Tom and I would be be really interested in going there. So thank you, Cindy, for letting us know. And we'll post this, like I say, on this episode's show notes. Yeah, thanks so much. This is a cool event. It looks like great speakers, too. Yeah.

Dan Savage. I saw that. Yeah. I mean, it seems like a great event. So anyone who's local should consider attending if your schedule allows. We got a message from Art, too. And Art had said that there's an Atheist meetup nearby. Yeah, there's an Atheist meetup.

It's actually not terribly far from where I work. So it's a meetup that I would consider attending if I have an opportunity after work one day. We'll definitely post a link. And by we, I mean Cecil. We'll post a link to that so you can check that out. Way ahead of you. Way ahead of you, Tom. I know.

Like, anybody really thought I was going to do it. But, you know, it appears to be a pretty good meetup group. You know, it's 208 Atheists Strong. That's huge. And it's in Wheaton, Illinois. So it sounds like a pretty cool event. And if I can make it out to one, I'm definitely going to do it. It looks like they have quite a lot of stuff, too.

They've got things going on three, four, five, five or six things going on in March. So it looks like a very active group. So we'll definitely post a link. We got an email from from Jennifer. We got a bunch of comments on this, actually. And this was about the baby who died from rickets. We got a ton of comments on this actually and this was about the baby who died from rickets we got a ton of comments on this about uh from people and we had talked a little bit about breast milk and breast nutrition the nutrition that the woman needs in order to feed the baby and uh and she says that

there's some studies out there that show that doesn't matter the woman's going to make the right stuff no matter what she puts in her body so the idea that the the vegan diet or that special over i think was an ovo it was an ovo lacto which which to me i mean that sounds like i mean that's a diet an ovo lacto vegetarian diet is really i mean what are you giving up i mean you're right you're just giving up muscle tissue i know it's just i mean really you're doing all the things yeah i mean it is so it's for that's a really not a strict vegetarian diet at all i mean like a vegan diet is clearly much more strict than than that would be uh so you know and we recognize that being a vegetarian doesn't you're not going to have any malnutrition issues really if you're

a vegetarian i know that you can have some if you're you know if you're like a super strict one and you're not getting any kind of there's like some sort of amino acids and things and certain nutrition stuff you have to plan out. But for the most part, being a vegetarian is I mean, it's probably more healthy than being a meatitarian. I'm certain. I mean, like the crazy like fruititarian people like they're going to die. That's fine. There's like the gruelitarians, too. They eat like a little slop or whatever.

Right. I like the fruit ones that'll only eat shit that's fallen off the tree. They won't even pick the fruit. Oh my gosh. They'll only eat shit that has fallen naturally. Just from a quantity standpoint, there's just... Because it's not like you can go to the grocery store

and be like, did this fall? Of course not. You gotta knock over the display. Right. Oh, it fell naturally. Fell on the floor. I'm just going to hang out in Southern California and wait for an earthquake with my mouth open. That's – Actually, you're going to do that anyway.

Yeah, right? What's the difference between that and my usual means of feeding? Yeah, but clearly we're not trying to bag on vegetarians in that thing. We were just saying that this was what they reported in the story. It could have been any, I mean, they could have been chewing up fucking meat and sticking it in the baby's mouth, and it wouldn't matter.

Right. You know what I mean? Not a good. Because the baby can't digest that shit anyway. It doesn't matter what it was. Could have been feeding the baby a fucking liquefied bacon, and it wouldn't matter. The kid was like five months old like that's not a chewing kid yeah like that's not a food eating i mean it's like breast milk and or some kind of formula she does mention in here incidentally that uh there are some fucking nut jobs um in the business

of selling kits to make your own homemade baby formula out of organic unpasteurized goat's milk and having consumed a tremendous amount of goat's milk in my life which is the most disgusting possible liquid i just don't know what else you'd feed kids though what you see there's a joke there the kids and the goat you see, yeah. Oh, I missed it. Damn. Yeah, it works for... Somebody's out there like, kids? Kids. Ding.

Like the light bulb goes off. Oh, God. I think we're done for this. I'm fucking done. This has been a marathon session. We want to thank Thomas for coming on the show. Thomas from Thomas and the Bible. And atheistically speaking, he has a co-host by the name of David. He could not make it this week.

We wanted to get him on, but he couldn't make it. But we still want you guys to go check their show out. There is going to be a link in this episode, episode 140 to Atheistically Speaking. Go check out that show. There are a couple of smart guys. And actually, there's some really good discussions on there. And they encourage audience participation. So if you're interested in talking to them about some of these issues, I know that they'd be totally down with getting messages on their Facebook page and things. So so definitely go check it out. So that wraps it up for this week. We're hoping next week we're going to be on Incredulous, although I don't know how long it's going to take for that show to come out. But we are hoping to be on Incredulous.

We're going to probably try to plan on recording that next Sunday. So that's going to be exciting. But until next time, we're going to leave you, as always, with the Skeptic's Creed. Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter mommy issue hypno-Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician double bubble toil and trouble pseudo-quasi

alternative acupunctuating pressurized stereogram pyramidal free energy healing water downward spiral brain dead pan sales pitch late night info docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures detox, reflex, foot massage

death in towers, tarot cards psychic healing, crystal balls Bigfoot, Yeti, aliens churches, mosques and synagogues temples, dragons, giant worms Atlantis, dolphins, truthers birthers, witches, wizards vaccine nuts

shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, double-speak stigmata, nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands. Bloody, evidential, conclusive. Doubt even this. The opinions and views expressed in this show are that of the hosts only. Our poorly formed and expressed notions do not represent those of our wives, employers, friends, families, or of the local dairy council. They would check out Cognitive Dissonance, baby. That's what they do. To bring it, to come back, to make a comeback. They would check out your fucking show.

Uh-oh. Did that shitty audio? What the hell was that? I don't know. Something just took a dump. It was awesome. A hushing, like a hissing sound. That's whatever the fuck is going on with my setup. There was like an airlock opened? Are you doing

this from space? I'm filming a remake of the movie Gravity. I'm sure you'll do much better. If you're in your underwear, I don't want to see it. That's all I'm saying. I don't wear underwear. What are you, crazy? I don't wear clothes ever. Are you still recording? I'm recording wear underwear. What are you crazy? I'm just,

I don't wear clothes ever. No, I'm actually still recording. I'm actually very, I'm recording. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

No, I just let it, Oh, we were going to record this. I thought this was a test run. This is not.