Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 161: Bob Blaskiewicz

Episode Date: July 4, 2014

  Special thanks to Bob Blaskiewicz for joining us. Send him email at:   Like the facebook page: Skeptics For the Protection of Cancer Patients Visit the website:

Want to stream Cognitive Dissonance to your Android or iPhone? Buy the app! Go to DissonancePod.com and click on the link on the right-hand side of the page. Each purchase helps support the show. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. I'm out. makes it big or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political. And there is no welcome at. This is episode 161 of Cognitive Dissonance.

And we have Bob Blazkowicz. Did I pronounce that even remotely close to right? Oh, yeah, that was spot on. Rock and roll. Boom. It's like the first thing you've done right on this show, Tom. I know. That's amazing. I should fucking drop the mic and walk out the door right now. Like's it it's 161 episodes i finally got something right that's amazing and

incidentally when i was reading the intro that i've read 161 times um i read the word topic and almost said logic instead so 161 times still you're awesome at this, man. Still get it wrong. You're very good at this. I'm fucking amazing at this. So Bob Blazkowicz, you're going to hang out with us for a little while. We're going to talk about a couple of stories. The first story I want to talk to you about is kind of an area of expertise of yours. This is a story coming out of USA Today.

FDA gives controversial doc greenlight to restart work. The Food and Drug Administration has given Houston doctor Berzinski the Greenlight to resume administering the experimental cancer treatments, the anti-neoplaston, basically the urine treatments. And he's back in the game, Stanislaw Berzinski. He was for a while put on a partial hold, barring him from enrolling new patients in his clinical trial. Bob, how long has his clinical trial been going on now? At this point, I think it's about 15 years or so, 15 or 16, something like that.

But he's been administering this as a cancer treatment for a lot longer than that. The clinical trials are just the loophole that he has been using that allows him to administer the drugs. So what was he doing prior to that? So he's been doing the clinical trials for 15, but it looks like he's been doing this nonsense for almost 40 years. Yeah. Before that, he was facing an indictment on 75 charges. He was administering these drugs, treating primarily in Texas. The patients come to him and he wasn't shipping the drugs across state lines. And that was the point where it would come under the authority of the FDA. I see. So if you keep everything in a single state, the FDA doesn't get involved. Right. Well, that's the thing. You know, if it's intrastate commerce, it's not a big deal. The charges were that there was interstate commerce, that it was being shipped.

And so that was actually the basis of some of the federal actions against him. But he has been largely unimpeded distributing this drug for 40 years. So fill me in a little bit on kind of some of the more recent efforts to stop Brzezinski, because the anti-neoplaston therapies have no proven track record of success. Is that right? That's exactly right. And he's not published any of this research. Well, it's published, but it's not the gold standard complete clinical trial in a reputable journal that we'd expect and actually demand as the bare minimum amount of evidence that we would need. Instead, we get case series. We get anecdotes and patient reports.

We get anecdotes and patient reports. And these little smaller sample size articles that really are drawing attention to the outliers in the statistical noise. And as is the practice among quacks, he relies heavily on testimony to sell his product. And when you look at these cases more closely, they often fall apart and are veridically worthless, honestly. So he did actually just publish two articles that his supporters were saying were peer-reviewed. We followed up with the first editor, and they said that none of the reviewers had actually gotten back to them. And so he didn't have a basis for rejecting the paper. Oh, really? Lower the bar even more.

Wow. I know. It's stunning. What's the name of this journal? I kind of want to send something in just to get it published at this point. Yeah. What is it? Child Neurology or something?

Wow. Child's Nervous Systems, think, is what it is. However, I did stay in touch with him and he wanted it. It seems like there was some outcry once that was announced. And he's getting people to respond in the journal in the same issue when it comes out. We saw it in pre-release online. And I'm pretty sure that I'm going to have a note appended to the article itself. And they can't retract to the fucking article if it hasn't been printed yet at this point. They can't say, hey, peer review is the standard and nobody did the review portion. Like we sent it to peers, but we did not get the review. I would think that's an essential component. We emailed this guy. We told him this is as bad as Andrew Wakefield. You know, He's still going

forward with it. So what can you do? It actually just kind of destroys the journal's reputation. But the other journal was on something called Beal's List, which is an authoritative list of possible scam, pay to play, unethical journals. And one of one of those purported to be a completed phase two clinical trial, but it's published in a garbage journal. So, you know, that that doesn't quite meet the muster. What was it that got Brzezinski shut down for a little while? They made him suspend the clinical trials for a little while. What was what was the cause of that, and why did that sort of suspension get lifted? Do you know? I can answer the first part, but the second part's a little bit more murky.

The reason they were shut down is because a child had died, a kid by the name of Josiah Cotto. I believe he was in Pittsburgh. he was in Pittsburgh. He died and they took a sample of his blood and he had a blood sodium level of 205. The average sodium is 135 to 145. And high blood sodium is a known side effect of sodium phenylbutyrate and the compounds, the antineoplastin compounds. It's a urea cycle drug. So people are drinking lots and lots of water and passing a lot of water. I have a lot of information about that case that was published online. And my guess is that he wasn't able to keep up with the water requirements because it was in his brain stem. That's where swallowing is involved. That seems reasonable to me. And doctors don't see patients recovering from sodium levels like that. They put a partial clinical hold on the trials. Then they investigated early last year, early

2013, and they found nightmarish conditions. The FDA's inspectors found nightmarish conditions, including over 100 overdoses and no documentation that, you know, despite these overd that they that his results were inflated two thirds of the time. And it wasn't like sometimes somebody had a response and he didn't. You know, he said there was no response. It was always inflated. So there are all sorts of shenanigans. The IRB didn't have a list of the people on the IRB and their qualifications, for instance. And when the warning letter came in December, yeah, it was in December of this year, of this past year, of 2013, they found that Josiah Cotto's records, one version was acquired at the clinic and the IRB, I think it was, sent them a different record. And so it looked like the records had been altered. And they asked for clarification about that because, hey, what the hell? I cannot imagine

a worse review of a site. And it's not the only time that this has happened. We have documentation of the FDA going in there year after year after year, finding conditions that would get any university that accepted any federal funding shut down. And yet the clinic has been allowed to continue. The trials were shut down. The warning letter was issued. Brzezinski was called in front of the Texas Medical Board again, and I believe that process is still ongoing, but they don't talk about that. which is the BBC oversight group, rejected. He had been portrayed in an honest light and in a Panorama documentary. Panorama is the BBC's 60 Minutes earlier last year.

And he objected to how he was portrayed and he was denied. They said that he was accurately or fairly portrayed. So he really seemed to be down for the count at the beginning of the year. And then the FDA blinked. The first thing that they did was say that patients could get antineoplastin treatment if they were able to get an independent IRB to sign off on the treatment and get an independent doctor, somebody who's not Brzezinski, let's put it that way, somebody who's not Brzezinski, to oversee the trials. And that was kind of a stunner.

That was, I think, technically the lifting of the trials, the ban, I mean, on the trials. of the trials, the banamine on the trials. And then just a couple of days ago, we got word that Brzezinski is back in the good graces of the FDA somehow. And we don't understand how that happened. Considering his track record, you know, you give the guy an inch, he takes Poland. We don't understand why they're doing business with this guy. And this is the really interesting thing. One of the first patients to get approval is a preteen by the name of Mackenzie Lowe. So they got a doctor in New Hampshire and they apparently got everything settled. I'm not sure who the IRB is who signed off on it, but they got a doctor who's willing to administer it. And the doctor has gone public saying he feels misled. Yeah, the treatment, the antineoplastin is free,

but all of the office visits and calls and all this other stuff that's associated, all the care surrounding the antineoplastins is costing a hefty penny. I think the most recent figure is $30,000 to start up with and like $14,000 a month thereafter. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and he said in – he went on the record and said that he felt like the bag man for this and that it had all the characteristics of a bait and switch. Already, that first decision by the FDA is having a negative impact on patients. Skeptics could have told them this. You know, this is how it always turns out. It's just very disheartening and very

perplexing to see the FDA behaving like this. Can you help me understand? And if the answer is I don't know, that's okay. But is the FDA typically this powerless? Because it seems like he's got photos of somebody's fucking mother at this point. You know what I mean? Like what kind of crazy – I just – I simply can't think of anything else. I mean, short of just shooting the patients in the face when they walk in the door you know what what does this guy need to do to get shut down and if you can't get shut down does the fda can we just at this point like throw our hands up and say the fda is a meaningless oversight committee that doesn't actually accomplish or have any teeth why is the fda

so reluctant do you think to just shut this fucking guy down well i think there are a couple reasons i would never say that the fda doesn't have teeth they in fact do have authority to regulate clinical trials they just happen to be doing it very badly right now in this case and the thing about brzezinski that that kind of makes him a little bit different than other practitioners, is that he apparently has no problem seeing his patients, you know, offer themselves as human shields. So the patients are the public face of the clinic. They're desperate. They are generally people who have brain stem tumors, which are really hard to treat. They don't respond well to chemotherapy. They are in a very valuable bit of real estate that you can't resect them with surgery.

And radiation, especially in children, can be quite bad for brain development. So it's an especially horrible and nearly, but not entirely fatal. And so they have no hope. And he offers a sliver of hope. But isn't the FDA's role in this transaction to be impartially reviewing the evidence? I mean, if they're not, if they're subject to the, you know, sort of quasi political lobbying of patient groups, um, that strikes me as, as a really shitty position for them to be put in, um, and to respond to, you know, this is the thing. Uh, last time Brzezinski got off from, uh,zinski got off and received his trials, his patients testified

in front of Joe Barton's committee, his oversight committee, and they're responsible for overseeing the FDA. And Barton dragged the chairman of the FDA in front of his committee four times asking, why are you persecuting this doctor? That's intense pressure. I understand that, but they should be insulated from that type of stuff. They should be allowed to do their jobs professionally and without political interference. However, that's just not the case. We are learning this as we go along. The only thing is, last time that this was happening, there weren't skeptics getting in the way. There weren't skeptics following up, challenging the clinic's points, challenging the patient's points with compassion. I think that the playing field has changed somewhat. I think that the playing field has changed somewhat.

If we can, we can put those horrible inspection, site inspection reports into the hands of our senators and representatives and say, oh, my God, this has been going on for over a decade. And so we're not completely powerless. And hopefully we'll be able to use the political system for the forces of good. What exactly can our listeners do to get involved? They can write to their representatives, drawing attention to the recent USA Today article. They can get in contact with me at skepticsprotect at gmail.com. We have a Facebook group, the Skeptics for the Protection of Cancer Patients, that is working very hard on this topic. And we stay abreast of developments at the clinic through the patients' writings primarily.

And yeah, check us out on Facebook, the Skeptics for the Protection of Cancer Patients. And you could also get in touch with us through the HoustonCancerQuack.com. I want, this is just a call out to all our listeners. The Skeptics for Protection of Cancer Patients right now needs your help. So go over, like their page and follow what they're doing on Facebook.

I think that that's absolutely necessary. This is an awful thing that's happened, and it's a step back just for cancer patients in general. It's a step back. We were doing such a good job over the last year. Brzezinski was on the ropes, and uh, and, and his, his treatment, uh, which has not been proven to be effective at all in the 40 years he's been doing it was almost completely wiped out, but now, um, it's back. So people need to do stuff. And this is a,

this is one of those opportunities where you have a chance to really make a difference. So, uh, hopefully you'll contact Bob and, uh, and you'll, you'll like this page on Facebook and follow what they're doing and get involved in this because they really need your help. Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness Monster, and the theory of Atlantis? If there's a steady paycheck in it i'll believe anything you say so this story comes from the uh illustrious cryptozoologynews.com illustrious because when you're thinking about a credible source cecil yeah um one only has to turn to the folks over at cryptozoology news you know know, it's funny because when I first saw that, I thought, like, shouldn't this just be a blank page? You know, like if you were really giving...

If they publish a newsletter, it would just be like, no news today. What they need is they need some images or some sort of video of like, you know, like a Bigfoot using Pantene, you know, and like how he shakes and his hair goes back and forth. Like that's what they need, I think, on Cryptozoology News. Actually, if you scroll down, scroll down, and there's a picture of a pink-eyed albino Bigfoot of Kentucky that kind of looks like he used Pantene. Kind of looks a little like Ozzie, actually.

He's not eating that off a bat, though. He's a little more intelligible when he speaks, though. You can understand what he says. So when you go to cryptozoologynews.com, it's funny because this story says Virginia, Virginian, sorry, shares Bigfoot photograph. And then above that, just so that you know how credible this source is going to be, there is a link to a story called The Child Who Befriended a Bigfoot Family. Yeah, that's called Harry and the Hendersons. No, that's the other way around. Oh, you're right. It is the other

way around. It's like a bizarro Harry. It's like the Hendersons and Harry. Hendersons. No, that's the other way around. Oh, you're right. It is the other way around. It's like a bizarro Harry. It's like the Hendersons and Harry. Hendersons and Harry. That's it. Yeah. But a man in Virginia, Cecil says his dad and a friend took a series of photographs. Series. A whole series.

A whole series as evidenced by the one in the video. He took a whole series of photographs that he believes could contain, could contain. Could. They're not making any positive statements here. A Bigfoot creature hanging out at a certain location along the intercoastal waterway. Probably the intercoastal waterway's local Bigfoot glory hole. They just didn't want to name it. Bigfoot glory hole.

What do the squatches do when they're coming? They're just like... Then they bang on the log. They bang on the log. It's awesome. It's like when they're taking a dump, they do the equivalent of the foot underneath the stall next to them

to get some attention. Tapping on the stall. Yeah, they're just... Tapping underneath the stall next to them to get some attention. Tapping under the stall. Yeah, they're just... Tapping on the stall. Yeah, they're walloping on Bigfoot hunters is what they're doing. And the best part is Randy O'Neal, who states that Microsoft and Google are his bread and butter. I don't even know what that means. What does that even mean?

I don't know. I have no idea what that means. I'm panicking. I don't even know what that means. But he uploaded the pictures to YouTube for the world to see. And he says, and this is my favorite, finally, a photo that is not blurry, nor hidden behind a tree. A clear photo of Bigfoot standing out in the wide open. You be the judge.

Yeah, I don't know, man, because this picture was taken from about, I don't know, four or five hundred miles away, it looks like. Four hundred miles away. It's like taken with like a submarine periscope. Like it's a fucking Hubble Space Telescope. They would have taken this fucking photo. It looks like a log to me. It looks like a shadow of a log. Like a log, imagine if a broken tree.

Like it looks like the shadow of a log more than it looks like anything else. The other thing that drives me fucking crazy is there's a four minute video at the bottom and there's one photo and then just a fucking million lines of scrolling text telling their story. What fucking phone or camera out there

cannot take video now like i know because because you know clearly this looks like a nothing but if i could see it walking or if i could see it move you know i mean like that's a something that's something that you get a chance to actually look at every fucking camera phone every fucking camera has a video mode on it why are you snapping photographs unless you fucking are clearly trying to deceive people? I don't know. His story is pretty fucking credible. Oh, yeah. So when you read his story, it was about 9 p.m.

They'd spent the whole day camping, fishing, and shooting at beer cans. Their words. So, you know, certainly the sort of day where you're not hallucinating at all because you're not drunk in the fucking woods. So they settled down for a night on a remote creek side in Virginia. And then a 15-year-old, his dad and a friend, gathered around the fire pit when the teenager reportedly noticed a pair of red eyes observing them. Went on for about 20 minutes. And eventually my dad, this is my favorite part of the story,

eventually my dad handed me this shotgun. This is after 20 minutes of red eyes staring at them. And he said, shoot the damn thing. I said, Daddy, I only see it when the fire flickers a certain way. And then dad says, then just shoot it where you think it is. Why don't you just shoot it where you don't think it is? Well, just aim that there gun into the woods and start pulling the trigger until something dies.

Yeah. So then he says, this irresponsible action led to a series of blood-curdling screams. The animal supposedly ran through the woods and into the water, causing a big splash. They do not have a Bigfoot body. They may have killed

somebody in the woods. Well, can't you just get a Bigfoot blood? Can't you just be like, well, I shot it. There was blood-curdling screams, so chances are there was a blood-letting at some point, right? If it's screaming. Right. Unless they have body armor that they wear.

Bigfoot Kevlar? There's a Kevlar that they wear. I mean, you could clearly, that's the thing that just drives me nuts is like, just find a piece of evidence, a hair, a fucking tooth, a,

a Bigfoot carcass, a, a Bigfoot poop, whatever it is, bring it in other than the fucking Bigfoot, um, the Bigfoot feet that they've carved out of wood that they walk around. The stompers

the big foot snowshoes other than that i want to just just bring one of those in and you know like the thing is is like i'm agnostic when it comes to big foot like i don't care enough to care if there's a big foot i don't think there is but i'm agnostic to the idea if there is a big foot i mean it's a big world what the the fuck? But just give me some evidence, man. Do you solemnly swear to tell truth, all truth, and nothing but the truth? Why don't you answer him? He's talking big right now. I don't know what he's saying. He's asking you if you swear. No, but I know all the words. He's asking you if you will swear to tell the truth. Truth is stranger than fiction, He's asking you if you'll swear to tell the truth.

Truth is stranger than fiction, Judge Woody. So this story is kind of everywhere. It's coming from thewire.com here, but you just find it by owning a computer at this point. But Justice Ginsburg's passionate 35th dissent of the Hobby Lobby decision has kind of gone viral. It's all over the place. Anybody that doesn't know, on Monday, the Supreme Court sided with Hobby Lobby on the company's challenge to the Affordable Care Act's contraceptive mandate, ruling that the mandate has applied to closely held businesses, which incidentally I had to look up. That's businesses where the majority of the shares are owned by five or less people. Closely held businesses violates the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

It's a five to four decision, and it's a controversial decision to say the least. One of the things that I hadn't really known is how much birth control actually costs, right? Like when Sarah and I were using birth control before I was snipped, for many years Sarah was going to the Planned Parenthood because they have like relatively inexpensive birth control. Sure. But like they were saying like an IUD is like very expensive. You know, yeah, it could, you know, it lasts a long time, but it's, it's very expensive. These companies are not willing to pay, you know, specifically Hobby Lobby is not willing

to pay for the contraception. Um, but they are going to give a greatly discounted rate on all their decorative coat hangers to all their employees though. So that's a bonus, right? I mean, it's like six of one, half dozen of the other's a bonus right i mean you know it's like six of one half dozen of the other you know actually you know six of one half dozen in the dumpster i guess it's more like it but even worse it gets worse i think that's worse yeah and you know after i think i think you know that this is a controversial decision but right after

this decision there was a six three decision to to grant the Hobby Lobby owner Prima Nocta. So he gets to do that, too. He's getting away with murder, that guy, I'll tell you. I personally think that it's a bad call to allow a corporation to, you know, get this loophole behind this, uh, this religious, it's a religious exemption. It's something we were talking about last week when we were, uh, we were talking to, uh, we were talking to Jake and we were having a conversation about religious exemption for vet, for, for vaccinations. And it's the same thing here. It's a religious exemption. That's I think going to cause some harm and it's the same thing here it's a religious exemption that's i

think going to cause some harm and it's clearly going to cause some harm for the people who work there and it's not just one place i mean there was a story somebody posted on our website where there's there's like over 90 companies that are in that want this sort of thing to go through so that they can do it now some of them are christian, but some of them are not. I mean, I used to shop at Hobby Lobby all the time. They really do have a very cheap frames. They have cheap frames. My wife's an artist and we frame her work all the time. And so it's cheap to go there and buy a frame

and buy some mat board and mat her own drawings, but now we're not doing it anymore. You know, for me, this just calls to mind how absurd it is that we treat corporations as people. Right. So this case boils down in part to the idea that all people's religious liberties must be protected. And I think that that's a very good thing for the Constitution to enshrine and to protect. However, this is not people. This is a corporation.

But unfortunately, the Citizens United case decided that corporations are people in the eyes of the law. And so now all of a sudden corporations have religious feelings, which is absurd. How could a corporation have a religiously held belief? A corporation can't have a religiously held belief. The individuals can have a religiously held belief. But, you know, is it reasonable that the five people who own a corporation can have a religiously held belief that dictates how the thousands of people that those five, you know, because that's a closely held corporation, that those five people can dictate for thousands of people that they employ?

To me, that's an unreasonable extension of the idea that corporations are people. Corporations simply are not people. of the idea that corporations are people. Corporations simply are not people. And I think this is moving down that same path in a way that will continue to offer protections to corporations that were designed for individuals. And I can't see any good coming of that. You know what they say, fool once strike one but fool me twice strike three so the story comes from the raw story and is fucking nuts uh loser in oklahoma primary claims victory because the gop opponent is dead and replaced by an android. This guy made it all the way as a primary candidate in Oklahoma.

The loser in recent Republican primaries claiming his opponent, Oklahoma Representative Frank Lewis, is unqualified for office because he has been replaced by a robot. Not only was Cecil replaced by a robot, but he says that he was executed by the world court on or about January 11th, 2011 in southern Ukraine on television. They were depicted as being executed by hanging on the neck, hanging about the neck until death on a white stage in front of witnesses. hanging about the neck until death on a white stage in front of witnesses, and that basically the individual is now an artificial or man-made replacement and therefore ineligible to serve for office. I watch those hangings every week. I actually DVR those hangings, those ones on TV.

I watch them all the time. I love those things. People just fall, and then they just hang and sort of swing. It's very relaxing to watch. I like them. It's actually the Ukrainian version of Wipeout. Yeah. It's a very short course.

It turns out it's just one obstacle. You know, the thing is they have the full obstacle course and then they've got the noose. And just as you're about to fall into the mud, bing, it snaps back. So if you can make it all the way across, then you win your freedom. No, I'm just kidding. Freedom! Freedom! It's basically like Running Man.

I mean, that's basically like Southern Ukraine is like Running Man is what I'm saying. You know, I wonder if at this point, if even his family is embarrassed that they voted for him. You know what I mean? Like, I wonder, you know, I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be somebody who thought this guy was going to run and then he starts talking about, like, this stuff like this and you're like, oh, great, I voted for that guy. Man, do I feel like a douchebag.

Well, you know, I don't know why you would feel bad. Even his press release was addressed to news person. So when Timothy Ray Murray posted a press release, he addressed it to news person. He carefully did not address it to news Android, as you'll notice. Well, if he was replaced by an Android, we'd just have to wait for the next UI release, and it'll be glitchy, and we'll start fucking up. Well, it's clearly glitchy enough for him to notice, because he was replaced by an Android, we'd just have to wait for the next UI release and it'll be glitchy. Yeah, exactly. And we'll start fucking up.

Well, it's clearly glitchy enough for him to notice because he knows. Yeah, he knows. That's because he tried to install fucking apps on him. He went to the Play Store on the opponent. You've got to tweak the nipple and then the thing comes up. They did say, though, the author of this did say his claims, while outlandish, are similar to those made by people suffering from capgrass delusion. I've never heard of that. A neurological disorder that causes individuals to believe that people in their lives have been replaced by body doubles. What a horrifying neurological disorder that would be.

Man, that would be the fucking worst, man. You're just fucking crazy. Like, you're just fucking delusional. Everywhere around you, you're, I mean, can you imagine the fear, the paranoia, the isolation and alienation? It'd be fucking, it'd be monstrous. Yeah. But how did he run for, I mean, how did he run for office with this, though?

Yeah. You know, the only thing I can think is that, you know, maybe something happened afterwards because it clearly, you know, I mean, if somebody's thinking that that stuff all the time, how do you even have a debate? I don't have it. I mean, you saw the crazy debate. And oh, God, what was it? Idaho or Montana?

I think it was in Idaho. Were they? Oh, God. He's clearly utterly insane. What was it, Idaho or Montana? I think it was in Idaho. He's clearly, utterly insane. And, you know, he's the biker guy and the old man reading the Bible during the debate. Oh, Jesus. It's clear that in some of these states, the primary contention is not. You're just going to walk through if you're a normal person. Like, you're just going to walk right through.

Like, I sell insurance, and I'm not insane. Like, what? Yeah. You're fucking super hired for this job right now. You're overqualified. Who's that guy on the other side of the glory hole? It's Jesus. So the story comes from the progressive secular humanist blog Apatheos. A slut-shaming Christian motivational speaker arrested while covered in his own vomit. Justin Lukadu, a popular Christian hedgehog and motivational speaker.

Was recently arrested. When he vomits, he spits out coins. Like little rings. It's actually little rings. He vomits out those little rings. He tried to run away. He was very, very fast. Very quick. He's very quick, yeah. He can run like loop-de-loops. He's so fast. He's ranting on and on about his buddy tails the whole time while he's in booking.

It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Nobody believes him. Oh, man. So this fucking idiot, this is the same guy, you know, we've covered him in the past, where he basically travels around and humiliates women. And he has got that whole, like, list of dateable girls. Yeah.

As long as the dateable girls know how to shut the fuck up. Right. Right. He's got, yeah. And then he talks about how, like, a good Christian man is, like, wild and can't be tamed or fucking domesticated or whatever. And so clearly he cannot be tamed or hold his alcohol or style his hair in a reasonable way i love it when people like this are like yeah man you gotta be uh with the holy spirit and then they just like fucking down the sacramental wine and sit in their car all depressed

and vomit on themselves i can't get enough of this shit i really can't it's funny because like you know okay clearly he hasn't been charged okay so like i want to make this very clear we were making fun of a guy last week who was only allegedly a kitty diddler even though they found like handcuffs and like bondage equipment in a storage cell of his he's still allegedly kiddie diddler, so we need to apologize for that. And this guy, he hasn't been... Was the bondage equipment miniaturized or was it full-sized? Yeah, and they put... For kids, you've got to make sure you have the

fluffy handcuffs. You don't want to give them the straight-up metal at that age. Yeah, there's age restrictions on those. Yeah, well, you don't want to be mean. You don't want to be mean, yeah. But in any case, this guy was only arrested on charges of public intoxication. He's not guilty yet, but he was found in his car with vomit all over himself and he failed a sobriety test and he recorded blood alcohol content of point oh seven.

But we definitely don't want to say that he was publicly intoxicated until he was actually charged so you know the good news here is he missed his next appointment because he was supposed to speak at a good news for those kids good news for those kids right the best thing you know you know you have fucked up and scheduled the wrong speaker when the best thing that speaker can do is pass out covered in his own vomit miles away from your location? Like when that is the fucking upside. You might as well get a hobo to speak. You know what I mean?

We need to go out and get a hobo. They're going to be more reliable than look-a-do. And that, kids, is how you ride the rails from St. Louis all the way. What the fuck is going on here? Who did we hire? So, kids, I'm going to show you how to give a blowjob for crack. So here we go. So we're going to take a break and give you all the information that you need to become a patron of the show.

And we're going to return in a few moments with a few more stories that will certainly depress you. And more information from Robert Blazkowicz regarding chemtrails. Want to contact the guys? Go to DissonancePod.com to get links to their Google+, Facebook, and Twitter accounts. If you want to contact them directly, send an email to dissonance.podcast at gmail.com. Or you can call and leave a message at 740-74-DOUBT. That's 740-743-6828. Do you want to support the show? Go to patreon.com. That's p-a-t-r-E-O-N dot com forward slash DissonancePod. Or click the link on the podcast homepage,

and you can donate to the production of Cognitive Dissonance on a per-episode basis. If you can't spare any money, take a second to give us a five-star review on iTunes or Stitcher, or spread the word about the show. We want to send a big heartfelt glory hole to all the patrons and people who rate us. You fucking rock. So this story is from WBTV.com. North Carolina lawmaker, pedophilia is like homosexuality.

In that it is not at all like homosexuality. I think this is like one of those SAT questions, like pedophilia is to homosexuality as apples are to tugboats or something. Right. The test self-destructs when you try to write that question up. That's the problem. It's just you're like looking at it, you're trying to do a little like process of elimination,

like this is not going to work. Just walk right out of the SAT. Fuck this. I'm going to junior college. It depends on where you're at and where you're taking it because if you're in Alabama, you better pick the right fucking answer. That's all I'm saying. If you're in Alabama, you're not taking the SATs.

What are you crapping? If you're in Alabama and you can take the SATs, you're first taking a fucking bus out of Alabama because if you're smart enough to take the SATs, you're first taking a fucking bus out of Alabama. Because if you're smart enough to take the SATs, you're smart enough to get the fuck out of Alabama. Oh, man. That was terrible. Fucking now all of our Alabama listener is going to be mad at us.

Yeah, he's going to be furious. He's going to be so mad. This lawmaker, Skip, Representative Paul, stam stam really skip i like that um they were debating skip and is like a 60 year old guy i knew a guy who went by skip and he was probably the most repugnant human being i've ever met in person. It wasn't this guy? It was not this guy. I thankfully never met this fuckwit in person. But the only person I've known named Skip was seriously like, I mean, there's no other word.

He was simply repugnant. I would rather fucking, I would rather dry hump that little golem from Lord of the Rings than spend five minutes with that guy. He was a horror show. You hump that golem, you get to be his precious. And I think that that's super important. As soon as he lays eyes on all this, I'll be his precious. Anyway, they were debating a proposal to prevent charter schools from discriminating against applicants based on sexual orientation. Because you should have to debate that.

Right. Like, that's the first thing. It's like, well, we got to hear the pros and cons against discriminating against kids. What the fuck? It's just fucking ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's just fucking ridiculous. Yeah.

When when Skippy here decided that he was going to suggest that adult sexual attraction to children is a sexual orientation. So that's what he was focusing on. Cecil is the idea of orientation, which, again, rejects the idea of consent. And, you know, like part of me wonders, like, you know, I think that there's a there's a there's a thread in the Republican Party and in the sort of far right in this this sort of idea. Because they're all there's a lot of people over there, too, that want to, you know, slut shame women and say like they're, you know, the rape is is not, you know, they they they get fuzzy on the idea of rape and consent. And they also get the fuzzy on the idea of like bestiality and they also get fuzzy on the idea of bestiality and consent, pedophilia and consent. They don't understand it. They think that it is equal. cannot make a fucking contract or sexual, you know, have sexual encounters with a youngster and have that be legal. Yeah. And I don't understand what is so difficult about that idea that like, like the key elements to a relationship, you know, are that, that all parties must be

adults, right? We establish that pretty readily. That's why, you know, that that that all parties must be adults. Right. We establish that pretty readily. That's why, you know, that's why it's considered rape if somebody is having sex with a minor, if a grown man or woman is having sex with a minor, you know, because we understand that a sexual relationship with someone who's not a grown individual is not consensual. Right. That so so that the individuals must be adults and they must be able to consent. And so those two pieces of the puzzle have to be in play in order for a sexual act to be basically irrelevant in the eyes of the law, right? As most sexual acts should be irrelevant in the eyes of the law. But somehow I agree you i agree with you but i don't understand what's hard

it only contains two elements yeah it's it's not like this is not a terribly nuanced argument that requires a tremendous amount of you know diligence and research no it doesn't it doesn't even require intelligence i mean we understand it that's true good I mean, like, as soon as you said that, it's like, fucking, I mean, once you scrape the bottom of that particular barrel... You're all dead! Oh, be nice! Oh? My son doesn't stand a chance!

The whole world's gone gay! Oh my God, what's happening now? We work hard. We play hard. happening now we work hard we play hard so this story comes to the new civil rights movement.com fox news contributor slams absurdity and insanity of homosexuality and transgenderism fox news contributor and far right-wing tea party conservative punditit Eric Erickson is attacking what he calls the absurdity and insanity of modern day homosexuality and transgenderism, claiming that people of faith will be left to pick up the pieces, Cecil, when the rest of us are dead. So they're going to outlive us.

That's that's what they're saying. No, because they can plan. They can procreate. That's what he was saying, because they can proc new plan. They can procreate. That's what he was saying. Because they can procreate and gays can't, I guess. Yeah, and they procreate, like the religious procreate at a faster rate than secularists, too. I think is also what he's suggesting. And when you grow up religious, you are never a secularist afterwards. And when you grow up in a family that dislikes gays,

you never either grow up gay or accepting gays. That just doesn't happen. Right, no. You know, it's funny because it's a little known fact that the only way to produce a gay child is to have gay sex. Oh, wow. You wouldn't think that that was biologically possible because it's not, but they seem to be.

Right. But the devil allows it. Oh, yeah. You know, that's the problem is like, you know, the devil just lets these things happen. There's another part of this, too, where he says those who practice acceptance and tolerance cannot accept that there are those because of their faith and values who refuse to conform to the secular world um you know your faith and values are great and you can have those and as long as you know you're not having the gay sex because you think that's a bad thing then i don't what's the big deal they again this is another one of those arguments that

happens all the time where people say like you're forcing this gay stuff down my throat. No, nobody's doing that unless you're in like the glory hole. Nobody's forcing any gay stuff down your throat. Essentially, what you're doing is you're saying that I'm not allowed to have my freedom to love who I want to love and, you know, be with who I want to be with. You know, I like your solution before when we were talking about this issue several weeks ago. And you said we should just get rid of the institution of marriage entirely. You know, as a legal construct, we should just have civil unions. And, you know, if you want to get married, leave marriage to the religious idiots.

They can do whatever the fuck they want with it. So if you want to go get married, then you can go to a church. You can go to a whatever. It doesn't matter. Go get your marriage and let the rest of everybody else gain all the same benefits through the benefits of a civil union and leave marriage to become sort of the outmoded religious nuts sort of secondary activity. It's the after party, you know, to the real thing, which is, you know, what garners, you know, all the rights and responsibilities and benefits. Sure.

There's plenty of religious ceremonies that are not, you know, you don't need a fucking license for. You can get your kid baptized. That's a big deal. Going to communion or what is it? First communion or whatever. Confirmation as a Catholic. Big deal, right? It's like a party and all that stuff. Yeah, well, you know, you don't need a license to do that. Go to a bar mitzvah, you know, whatever that stuff is. You know, you don't need a license for any of that stuff. So there's those, there's these sorts of religious things, these religious type parties

and things happen already. Why not just relegate marriage to that and just leave it all as civil unions? That way nobody can say, you know, the thing is, is they'll look at it from their point of view. They'll be like, man, this is a downfall of society. We can't be married by the government. Yeah, I know, because they would just be like, you're you know, you're, you know, taking away the sacred institution of marriage. And it would never, you know, the problem is that it's too practical. It would never happen. Right.

Because the reaction would be violently emotional rather than pragmatic to that solution, unfortunately. But I think it's actually a pretty good solution to the problem. But to me, like, gay marriage is like, it's one of those things that's like, you know, I'm for gay marriage, but I pretty good solution to the problem. You know, but to me, like, gay marriage is, like, it's one of those things. It's like, you know, I'm for gay marriage, but I'm never going to get one. You know? If you are opposed to gay marriage, like, the solution is just don't get a gay marriage. Just don't marry a dude. Like, if you're a dude, don't marry a dude.

I don't think I would like having sex with a man, so I'm not going to try that. Yeah. Like, the solution, like, my life goes on. Like, everything is fine. I wake up. I would like having sex with a man, so I'm not going to try that. Yeah. Like the solution, like my life goes on. Like everything is fine. I wake up. I go to work. You know, nothing changes out of my life.

I don't even think about it. But I think what they're really upset with is that they're being marginalized because their bigotry is being exposed for what it is. And as they're pushed to the, as this bigotry is pushed to the sideline, they feel the squeeze. They feel the social pressure of, of being, you know, basically like the last seven clan members in town, you know? And like you used to have,

you used to have like 150 dudes at your fucking local meeting, you know, as everybody from the butcher to the baker to the candlestick maker. And now it's just, you know, it was everybody from the butcher to the baker to the candlestick maker. And now it's just, you know, three rednecks sitting around a couple of tree stumps in the woods. And, you know, they're all bemoaning their lack of relevance in the world. Pentecostal chaplain John Kaufman came out and said this, marriage is the combat multiplier that, and that it gives married troops hope and a reason to fight well, defending one's country,

of which marriage and families are the foundation. But homosexuality is a combat divider, dividing one's reason to live while taking breaks on the combat field to change diapers, all because the treacherous sin causes them to lose control of their bowels? Right-wing watch. Uh, wow gordon klingenschmidt the demon obsessed anti-gay exorcist wins cecil the gop

primary in colorado so if you know i wouldn't have been surprised if he was running right if he was running in it just because we've seen crazy people run, the saddening thing here is he won. He did win. So we should stress that this is just the primary. So he didn't win the general election. He's not a representative yet. But good God, he is the Republican nominee. Enough people looked at this guy and said, that's my pony.

I'm betting on that one. On this guy who performed an exorcist on a lesbian soldier. How do you do that? Do you know how you do that? I don't know, but it sounds kind of hot. So I'd give it a roll. Yeah, maybe they, you know. I've seen part of that movie.

I've not seen the whole, I've never made it to the end. But I'll tell you what, it had a roll. Yeah, maybe they, you know. I've seen part of that movie. I've not seen the whole, I've never made it to the end. But I'll tell you what, it had a conclusion. Yeah. I want to play just a clip of him. I mean, this is a possible representative in that district. And, you know, the thing is, it's a Republican district. So if he wins the primary, does that mean he's on the ticket and then he's like going against the Democrat then? Yeah, that's what's happening, man.

He might get elected. Here's Gordon Klingenschmitt from Courtesy of Right Wing Watch. Where are the spirits in all this? What is the Holy Spirit saying and what would the demonic spirit say? And what would the demonic spirit say uh and what would the angels even say if there if there were a four-dimensional view of the spiritual realm and those four spirits including human where are they influencing the people to make their decisions what the fuck does that even mean what does that even mean what does that mean even mean? What does that mean? The fourth dimensional, like what would all the fucking angels and demons and gods and fucking biscuits say about the fourth dimension?

Who fucking cares? What are you talking about? Do you have any idea what he's talking about? voter in that district, I would be terrified that this man is getting his fucking decision making like cues from angels and demons. And I say there is a demonic spirit that is influencing some of the lawmakers, not just the gay couple from Massachusetts. Of course, they want to parade and celebrate their sodomy, but they also want to force a Christian to do that.

They want to force a Christian of sodomy. I they also want to force a Christian to do that. They want to force a Christian to have sodomy? I don't think that that's the case. Like, how would the government do that? Like, the government, like, knocks on your door and is like, hey, did you do sodomy yet this week? Because you've got, like, your sodomy quota. You tell me, we've got to punch your ticket. Do you have your ticket?

Here's your government-issued lube. Your lube. And the worst part is it's probably like the government cheese, which is terrible. So the lube only stays lubricated for like a half a second, and then you just tear your ass apart. It's just the worst. It's the worst. All right, so there's more. Now, Jack Phillips, God bless him, I discern the Holy Spirit of God upon him

because he is listening to the voice of God who is saying, do not bow your knee to a false god. Do not bow your knee or compromise and participate in their sin. Don't endorse their sin because ultimately that is harmful to them. And Jack Phillips, because he's a man of love, because he's a man of peace, he wants to show compassion even to the sinner and by endorsing their sin he would not be showing compassion to them he would be showing cruelty so the ultimate hate speech is to endorse homosexuality because you give them the impression that it's okay and that deceives them and ultimately trips them into hell. Fair enough. Oh, my God. This man might become a representative.

All I can hope is that Colorado, like, that the Democrat, I don't know this district in Colorado. I hope that this district in Colorado is one of those districts that, like, always goes Democrat. You know, that, like, District 15 is fucking always, you know, and this guy is just voted by a bunch of fucking lunatics. Oh, well, let's check, Tom. I'm looking right now. It's currently represented by a Republican.

No. He's going to be. Yes, he is. No, I can't. No. Yes. Yes. No.

Oh, man. Oh, God. Election results from prior races. Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney. List of representatives. Republican, Republican, Republican. They don't have any Democrats. Oh, Tom.

Oh, no. They don't have a Democrat from 1973 forward. Oh, no. This is extravagantly bad news for America. Yeah, even though it's only Colorado, I'm still terrified of such a thing. I am, too. Man, Colorado's a fucking weird state, man. Like, they're like blue-red.

Like, they've got some fucking pockets O-red that are fucking deep and true. And Colorado Springs is one of them. And the idea that this guy, somebody's looking at this guy and being like, Klingenschmitt, I want to disgrace former Navy chaplain. That's my pony. That's the guy. I want a guy who thinks that fucking angels pick things for him. I can't.

It's so depressing that hearing that doesn't automatically disqualify this person. I know. Not legally disqualify this person. I know. Not like you would think it would qualify him, but in the eyes of voters, Tom, how much more crazy is it to think androids replace somebody as it is to think that fucking demons tell people what to do. It's the same crazy. I think it's the same level of crazy.

I don't, I don't think that there's a fucking, there's really not. It's a fucking, it's the same level of nuts. Yeah't i don't think that there's a fucking there's really not it's a fucking it's the same level of nuts yeah one is more popular right like one is clearly a more popular delusion but they're both clearly fucking delusions i mean who maybe the other guy would be a better governor i'm maybe who who knows klingenschmidt, I don't think. This guy doesn't have a fucking chance in hell at being a reasonable and responsible lawmaker, though. This is somebody who believes, in his heart of hearts, believes that demons and angels are the forces that are driving the decisions of the people in the world, not people. Right.

So how is he going to evaluate conflict? He's going to evaluate conflict on this fucking weird, made up, imaginary, metaphysical level that he has no evidence for. So he's just making, he's fucking literally just making it up in his head as he goes. And the very worst part about that is he can demonize whoever he wants then. Anybody who's against him, anybody who has a different viewpoint, he can then say, no, they're clearly demonic. They clearly have some demon problems with them

that are fucking demons are speaking in their ears and telling them what to do. So, you know, I just think it's awful. I mean, I just think it's awful that somebody like that can get elected. You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers! I want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

So this story comes from International Business Times, and it is ludicrous. What are chemtrails? Furious Arizona residents demand answers, despite not having any good questions, on popular conspiracy theory. This is kind of crazy. Small communities throughout western Arizona are pressing for a state investigation into the nutjob conspiracy theory that there are such things as chemtrails. as chemtrails. And in fact, they've gotten so much attention that the chemtrails was the subject of a meeting convened by Republican State Senator Kelly Ward

of Lake Havasaw City, in which she called on members of the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality to address the audience. That went about as well as you think it would have from the article. Basically, a bunch of people stood up, dismissed the evidence

and yelled about being sprayed like bugs yeah what i okay so you're a conspiracy guy bob you like conspiracies fill us in what are chemtrails well chemtrails it depends on who you're talking They are essentially a misinterpretation of airplane contrails. So water vapor that is produced in combustion of jet fuel, it forms clouds under the right conditions. It forms ice crystals that can linger in the sky for hours. And also, under proper conditions, if it's humid enough, just the circulation of air across wing tips can cause them. But for people who don't understand that, these streaks in the sky are scary and kind of look like what you'd expect spraying to look like, I guess, and weren't aware of usually spraying is done very close to the ground on purpose.

Right. Right. Right. So basically what you have is you have this kind of blank canvas upon which people are allowed to project their fears. When I was in Atlanta a couple of years ago, this was very strange. The local, it was like the CBS affiliate in Atlanta, ran a story about chemtrails. And I was curious to see what the response was. My day job is actually studying conspiracy theories. And so I wrote to

the station and they said, we had such a huge response, like people from all over the world were praising us for taking on this big conspiracy. And so they wanted to do like a seriesists who are often derided in popular culture, actually seeing someone take them kind of seriously, that was – it was like the second coming for them. It was great. Now, there are a couple of ideas about what's going on with these chemtrails. Sometimes they're thought to be poisoning us. Poisoning us? Poisoning us, yeah. So they're spraying, you know, things that'll, I don't know,

sterilize people. But we're not sterile. Can't we just, like, look at the evidence? You seriously underestimate the power of the slow kill. It works every time, but it takes 100 years to take effect. It takes 100 years at least. Exactly. I know.

You would think. You know what? It's a poison that gives people either heart disease, cancer, or obesity. Right. Yeah. One of those three things. But it works almost every time. Sometimes it just takes longer.

What I wonder, too, is, OK, so when they do the crop dusting, when they like actually dust a crop, you said that they're close to the ground, but they're also releasing a lot of stuff into the air there. of how much stuff could possibly be released from that high up. Because when you release something from that high up, it really dissipates over a much larger area. You know what? At some point I saw calculations about that, and it was basically impossible for someone on the ground to actually be affected by something that in fact was dispersed that high up. I mean, it could be like fucking sarin gas up there. I know.

It could be like nuclear waste. Right. It wouldn't matter. That's like my favorite sarin gas, and you fucking wasted it. That was a good vintage. It's really diffuse, and there's really nothing to fear. There's one where they think that they're using these chemtrails. One where they think that they're using these chemtrails.

They're being sprayed to become like a screen upon to project like a fake alien invasion. They're all sorts of – Oh, what the fuck? That sounds awesome. I would watch that movie. That sounds so great. That sounds the greatest screen ever. Oh, man. It's like a real IMAX.

You know what I mean? Like you're literally there. It's like a real IMAX. You know what I mean? You're literally there. It's amazing. So you said that conspiracies is your day job. What is your favorite conspiracy? There's something about David Icke and his conspiracy theories. So what he says is that the human race is controlled by reptiles. This is the reptile guy.

I love the reptile guy. Do people believe this earnestly? It depends. Some people take him seriously at face value as I think he wants to be understood. And other people use it as kind of a metaphor so that there are reptiles. So it's like the Bible. Some people call them Jews. Oh, no. But there are reptiles. So it's like the Bible. Some people call them Jews.

Oh, no. And it's weird because Ike has had this kind of cozy relationship with the racist right. I don't think he's racist. what he calls the reptilians, you know, people who are part of, say, the Christian identity movement would say that he's actually talking about Jews who are the product of a union between Eve and the serpent in the Garden of Eden. I seriously can't even hear what you're saying.

Like, that's so fucking crazy. My fucking ears shut down listening to that. That's amazing. That's amazing. And the thing that's so fucking crazy. My fucking ears shut down listening to that. That's amazing. That's amazing. The thing that's so great about David Icke is just as his claims like kind of top out, you know, he was saying that these aliens are, you know, wearing Queen of England suits and posing as our politicians. And basically it's the plot of V. Right, right. And you think, well, that's pretty out there.

What will he do next? And he delivered. They are mind controlling, shape shifting, interdimensional reptilians wearing queen outfits that are monitoring us from the moon, which is a space station. Wow. I don't. I know. I didn't even know where to start with all that. I don't know what to do with that. There's so many ways that that can't be falsified, you know, because they're controlling your mind.

And also they're shapeshifting. And also they're interdimensional. And also they're inaccessible in the middle of the moon. You have to wonder, like, the people who earnestly, like, believe this, they have to hear this. So clearly there's no evidence for them. So somebody out there is, like, exposed to this idea. And it clicks. And they're like, oh, finally, it all makes sense. Like, I don't even understand what set of questions these are the answers to.

Yeah. Does he think you're a reptile? Me? No, I'm I'm I'm just a guy. OK, so clearly you're just but like, how do you to, I mean, because I kind of want to level up. I'm just curious like how I get to be a reptile. I don't know that you can be. That's a good question. Oh, man.

I mean, in the weird universe we occupy, that's a good question. How do you become a reptile? How would they take me? Like, at what point do they decide to take over Cecil and put a reptile in my place or whatever? Or, like, are you born a reptile? Like, there's so many questions. This just opens up, like. Well, they are bloodlines. So your kids could be part reptile.

So are the reptiles in this worldview cold-blooded? Couldn't they just be defeated by winter? Or, like, you could just pacify them with a nice warm rock yeah all right yeah you think so wouldn't you if somebody if somebody plays like an oboe they're immediately like like completely you know i guess that's not that's more like a cobra but still right still kind of the same animal kingdom right yeah yeah no did it he often makes references to the ancientness of serpent worship. So yeah. Wow. I do a lot of serpent worship myself, so I kind of know where he's coming from.

So we want to thank Bob Blazkowicz for joining us and talking about Brzezinski. We want to urge you guys to please go check out the webp pages and send emails. We have on this episode show notes, we have both the skeptics for the protection of cancer patients, and we have his email skepticsprotectatgmail.com. So you want to send emails and you also want to get involved in this Facebook group. See if there's some stuff you can do. See if you can write people. There's going to be a, hopefully there's going to be a form letter for people to send out to their congressperson. It's really important that this sort of thing stops. I mean, they're preying on human suffering and there's no greater cause than to stop human suffering. And we can't say it loud enough that this is a great call to action. So if you run into Bob at TAM, talk to him.

He's a great guy. He's really approachable. And he'll sit down and have a beer with you in the lounge there. And you can talk to him about all this different stuff. He's a great activist, so you should definitely look him up. This is one of those few times as skeptics where there is something tangible that you can do. So many times we can't do anything very tangible to stop harm, active harm that's taking place. This is something where there are tangible actions.

You can contact your representatives. You can make your voice heard. You can gather attention. And this guy has been stopped before. He can be stopped again. So please do take the five minutes out of your day to make this an issue. I don't want to cover any other email except for one this week. So there's a gentleman by the name of Winslow we've been in contact with. He asked if we were going to Tam. I said no, but I said, you know what? If you're going, I can send you a shirt. And he's like, eh, I don't know.

And then he comes back with, he bought several shirts, several shirts, and he's just going to give them away at Tam. And he says, this is not our money. He just bought a bunch of shirts. We actually offered to send him some money. And he's like, no, no, that's not the point. I'm going to read his letter. He says it's nice you to offer and i appreciate it but that sort of misses the point i have clothes i'm buying the shirts to support the show and promote

tam uh keep the good work and try not to burn out there's huge difference between doing something you you do when you like it and something you do out of obligation ask any hooker if you don't believe me i like that and then he says at the bottom, he's like, my description of the show when people ask is two fat guys from Chicago laughing about dead children. That seems to cover about 80% of the content. And he's absolutely right. So if you run into Winslow at TAM, he may have a shirt for you. So you may just want to walk in and be like, where's Winslow? Because he may have a TAM shirt to give you. He bought like several of them. So thank where's Winslow? Because he may have a Tam shirt to give you. He

bought like several of them. So thank you, Winslow, for doing that. I think it's awesome. You know, you clearly are giving us money when you buy the shirts, but you're also promoting the podcast. And we can't thank you enough. We really think that that's just a really super cool thing to do. That's incredibly kind of you, Winslow, to promote our show like that and to support us. We really do appreciate it. Have a great time at TAM. There's some really nice people. Cecil and I had a very positive experience when we went there.

Met some really interesting and awesome human beings there. So enjoy yourself and thank you. So that wraps it up for this week. If you want to find any information on Bob Laskowitz, please check out the show notes. It's episode 161. But until next time, we're going to leave you as always with the Skeptic's Creed. Credulity is not a virtue.

It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo quasi alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead, pan, sales pitch, late night info-docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls, Bigfoot, Yeti, aliens, churches, mosques and synagogues, temples, dragons, giant worms, Atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches, wizards, vaccine nuts, shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, doublespeak, stigmata, nonsense.

stigmata, nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands. Bloody, evidential, conclusive. Doubt even this. or that of the hosts only. Our poorly formed and expressed notions do not represent those of our wives, employers, friends, families, or of the local dairy council. I'm out.