Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 203: Five Pillars, Four Interceptions

Episode Date: January 26, 2015

   

This episode of Cognitive Dissonance is brought to you by our patrons. You fucking rock. I've been saying it for years. Obama is a dangerous, Marxist, arsonist, narrowest, communist, Maoist, Leninist, socialist, fascist, anarchist, kleptarchist, Islamist, jihadist, Satanist, monarchist, imperialist, galactic imperialist, Sithist, Darth Vaderist, cognitive dissonantist, glory holist piece of shit. Hey there, Tom and Cecil, Cecil and Tom. This is James from Arkansas, and I was going to elucidate for you the process in becoming a Muslim cleric.

You know, there seems to be some confusion about this. Let me just clear, I've done some extensive research. All right. First, your alignment has to match with that of Allah. In this case, it's got to be chaotic evil. You have to have

Allah's favor, of course, or else your divine spellcasting won't work. And, yeah, bada-boom, bada-bing, you've got simple weapon proficiencies and several different spell slots depending on your

level you'll also want to have a high charisma modifier or else you won't be able to turn the undead anyway, I hope this clears things up glory hole and have a lovely day hey it's big rob out of Texarkana baby Let's clear things up, glory hole, and have a lovely day. Hey, Cecil, hey, Tom. Big Rob out of Texarkana, baby.

So I just had a funny story that happened. I thought y'all might like it. I'm married to this born-again Christian. She's just all about Jesus, and, you know, obviously I'm an atheist. I was listening to your show. And so one of these days she goes over and just starts looking through my phone obviously I'm an atheist, I listen to your show. And, uh, so one of these days she goes over and just starts looking through my phone while I'm in the shower and she starts playing Cognitivist.

Man, was she pissed off when I came out of the shower. She's like, I can't believe this junk you have on your phone. You know? And it wasn't so much the Cognitivist that made her mad, it was all the German gay porn. So go figure. Uh, we got some stuff to talk about.

Thanks, glory hole. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. Recording from Glory Hole Studios in Chicago, this is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political. And there is no welcome mat.

This is episode number Untitled Document. Or 203, if you happen. I like Untitled Document. To be counting. Yeah. You know, I want to say that cecil that's fucking lazy you know like i mean when i put the notes together i expect you to title that for me you know i i messed up last episode i have to change it but you may still be able to download

it last episode isn't called episode 202 it's called notes 202 but admittedly i was putting that show together the night before I left for fucking vacation at like two in the morning. So, yeah. So I think I'm forgiven on that count. That's horrible. That sounds like a it's I got to tell you. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart. It sounds like so much work to do a podcast.

Like so much work. Hello? Is this thing on? Oh, man. I mean, that's what I hear, at least. So let's start off with this first story. We have a nice – when we were putting the notes together, we built this nice like – really like pyramid of shit at the top where we've got all the fucking dead, injured or fucked children. Oh, God. Right at the very tippy top. This is to make sure that new listeners run screaming out the door. This story comes from CBC News.

Micaiah Salt, girl who refused chemo for leukemia. Can you guess? Can you guess? Wait. I will say she's probably fucked, but not in the traditional sense. I would actually say that in some sense, all the children from the first three stories we cover get fucked. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, no. Well, it's not spontaneously recovers. It's dies. Terribly sad story for all the joking we're doing. We covered this when this became kind of an issue in the courts um 11 year old girl from ontario first nation it's like a you know like the uh canadian version of of the uh american indians right the canadian indians do they call them indians maybe yeah we probably don't call them indians either unless you're like rude um anyway she refused this show this show is out to a fucking great start

it's good we're killing it i feel like we're killing this well anyway she uh refused chemotherapy and the courts upheld her decision even though she's fucking 11 right and can't really make decisions well anyway the courts upheld her decision to refuse chemotherapy and instead cecil she pursued traditional indigenous methods, alternative treatments. She did it, though, because she had a vision of Jesus. And so she died. Yeah. Because it turns out that's all bullshit.

I guess visions of Jesus are not ways in which to spontaneous recover spontaneously recover from leukemia yeah you know it's pretty sad because um she had a 75 survival right chance um when she was diagnosed initially with acute lymphoblastic leukemia in march um and uh that's them's fucking fighting chances like 75 if you got to get a cancer yeah that's a pretty good percentage chance that you're gonna that you're gonna go through that um and get through the other side so um the the fact that this this 11 year old girl was even able to make a decision and that the courts were like oh we should definitely do what a fucking sixth grader wants. I mean, you can't even sign up for the fucking Columbia House DVD Club. Do they still have that?

I don't know, but I thought it was funny. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you can't even become like a mouseketeer without a parental guardian. You think you're going to be able to fucking just decide, Oh, you know what? I don't want to get cancer treatment. And it says here, it says, surrounded by the love and support of her family and her community and her nation, Michaela completed her course. Her course?

It's like the worst 5K ever. They put the bib on her and they just track her like, she's not going very quickly. I tell you what, other people compete in an Ironman. She tried to compete in the Iron Lung, I think. Oh, nice. Oh, well, she's not competing anymore. She fucking wins. No.

It says here, it says, I am writing this letter to tell you that chemo is killing my body. Now, this is what the little girl is saying. Chemo is killing my body and i cannot take it anymore and you know maybe it might have been killing your body but the leukemia was definitely killing your body i you know that's the thing that like people are like yeah you know chemotherapy is super fucking awful and it's and like like i don't think anybody would disagree right chemotherapy like really sucks there's no disagreement about that but it's fighting cancer right right that's like saying like like if you have like a fucking chimpanzee attacking you right and like the only way to fight

the chimpanzee is to like stab yourself in the leg like stabbing yourself in the leg. Like stabbing yourself in the leg sucks, but you're fighting a chimpanzee. Yeah. You know, like there's no – you're not coming out of this unscathed. Right. We don't have a pill that's like the unscathed cancer treatment pill. And like that really sucks that we don't have that pill. And it sucks that we're not at the end point of medical history where we can all clap our hands together and say jolly good job, old chap. But like this is the point in history where we can all you know clap our hands together and say you know jolly good job old chap but like this is the point in history we are where history where we are these

are the treatments we have available they're less than perfect but they're better than rubbing some fucking dirt on it which is what the indigenous treatments are yeah and that's that's what it that's what that's what it feels like right is like, rub some dirt on it, you'll get better. Like, fucking, that's never helped anyone. And, you know, maybe a better analogy would be, Tom, if you were standing on a high dive, and a really high dive, where, you know, let's say, I don't even know how high high dives go, but let's say a very high dive, and you were doused with gasoline and lit on fire, the way down's going to suck, because it's going to add some oxygen probably going to suck but it's going to put the fire out

right you know it's going to hurt it's not going to be comfortable but it's going to put the fire out and that's what this is it's the fucking idea is you you know it's not like it's it's going to come in and fucking sing kumbaya with the cancer it's going to fix that shit it's not like it's it's going to come in and fucking sing Kumbaya with the cancer. It's going to fix that shit. It's going to it's going to eradicate. It's also going to debilitate you. But 75 percent is way better than zero percent, which is what you gave yourself. And, you know, the parents, dumb fucks that they are listening to what they say.

Listen to what they say. She was on her way to wellness, bravely fighting toward holistic well-being after the harsh side effects of the 12-week chemotherapy inflicted on her body, the family statement read. Chemotherapy did irreversible damage to her heart and major organs. This was the cause of the stroke. Glad you were able to fucking come up with it. Yeah, right. And that's the thing, too, is like people just get it. They just decide. They just like these things happen and they're just like oh well i fucking know what caused it and then those tell you what caused it and what's their evidence they have no

fucking evidence they have no causal link between the chemotherapy and the stroke that ultimately ended this person's life you know it maybe it was the i I don't know, fucking leukemia. Who knows? Who fucking, who really knows, like, what the causal link was from one event to the other event? Or if there even was a causal link from one event to the other event. But they just decide. Like, they decide that chemotherapy is evil. They decide that it's fucking debilitating and destructive. And so it's like, well, let's just like, we should just just we should let 11 year olds make all their decisions if you let 11 year olds make all their fucking decisions about their lives they would eat nothing but ice cream and pizza and none of them would go to school right you know like

we don't do that for a reason because it's a goddamn terrible idea at some point grown-ass men and women need to step in and look at an 11 year old child and say, you're in fucking fifth or sixth grade. You know nothing about the world. I have to guide you through this difficult and navigate you through this difficult period in your life. You're going to come out the other side. I'll hold your hand through it.

Let's do this thing together. But you're not going to be the goddamn decision maker. You're fucking 11. The number of things you can't do when you're not going to be the goddamn decision maker you're fucking 11 you the the number of things you can't do when you're 11 i don't even know if you're tall enough to ride this ride at 11 no how do you like that my own mother falling for that stuff well you don't know larry maybe dr kaha can help her doctor that guy's no doctor. He's a quack. So this story comes from the Raw story. Seven kids removed from Arkansas prepper family's home after use of bogus miracle cure. I love this story because the miracle cure is basically bleach.

If you read through the story, they've got, you know, 18 million kids or something, seven homeschooled kids, unsurprisingly from the South, a bunch of nutty preppers. And they're using this miracle mineral solution. And it's touted as a cure for cancer, AIDS, malaria, and possibly Ebola. That's true. No, that's true. That's true. Because if you ingest it, you die from bleach poisoning. So you'll never get the Ebola.

You'll never get Ebola. It's 100% effective so that you get none of the other diseases, no matter how much bubonic plague you rub on their corpses. You could drink this and then dive into Ebola infested blood. And be fine. And I'd be fine. And you'd be fine because you'd be dead from the bleach in a couple hours. My favorite part of this is the FDA is saying the product, and this is my favorite line in the sentence, when used as directed, not even when abused, but when used as directed,

produces an industrial bleach. when used as directed, produces an industrial bleach. The product instructs consumers to mix the 28% sodium chloride solution with an acid such as citrus juice. This mixture produces chlorine dioxide, a potent bleach used for stripping textiles and industrial water treatment. High doses of this bleach, such as those recommended in the label can cause nausea vomiting diarrhea and symptoms of severe dehydration and then later on it says like that later on the company says yeah that's how you know it's working what if you could strip your textiles yeah look

strip your textiles yeah look oh i'm feeling like maybe i have malaria in arkansas that's not possible oh no shut up here have this miracle cure oh god i'm super sick oh fuck oh that's how it's working i was sick if i'm sick before i don't even understand that that thought process like oh man you know it's working when you're extravagantly more sick. Have you ever heard the pool nutters, the people who are like, you can't have bleach in your pool because it'll get into your skin. You can't have chlorine. Like, there's no chlorine allowed in your pool. You should find something else because chlorine is bad for your skin. It'll get inside you and it'll poison you from the inside.

Yeah. You ever hear any of those people? No, but it's awesome. Yeah, no, there's people like that. It's so funny because in this case you,

you could, this is, this is like a whole lifetime of pools for thousands of people, right? The amount of, of chlorine you're getting in your system it's hilarious but this is one of the thing is is that it doesn't matter what it is they're either trying to tell you that something normal is harmful or that something weird is helpful and the things that that they

made up out of nothing clearly have fucking citrus juice and some weird thing to make fucking chlorine bleach that you could use in a textile factory. I haven't even heard those words together since the 1900s. Pretty soon we're going to have children that are five years old getting their heads caught in sewing machines. Please, sir. It's Sunday afternoon. I've been working ever so hard. Can I take a day? No!

Get back to the textile factory! But I would like to go to the funeral for my other brother and sister and brother and sister and brother. And my mother has leukemia. All of my family is quite dead sir my textiles spray them i'm feeling so sick here drink some bleach that'll wipe it right out of you gosh clean you right out you love yourself some preppers though don't you i i gotta admit man i fucking not only do i kind of love the prepper show um and i watch do you ever watch that doomsday prepper show no i don't you i i gotta admit man i fucking not only do i kind of love the prepper show um and i want do you ever watch that doomsday prepper show no i don't i i i'm kind of i kind of love that show i don't watch it because first of all my wife loads it um because it's fucking

stupid and all the people on it are fucking stupid but like part of me i i want to i want to prep not because i think anything weird is going to happen i have like i have i just think building really cool forts is super awesome and i'm like i watch that show and i'm like oh man i totally want to build an underground bunker and i don't kind of want to do it cecil like i kind of thinking like if i watch enough of that show after a while i'm like yeah we got enough room back there. Maybe I could, like, I start planning it out. Like, I start getting a little off the rail there because it's awesome.

Like, all they're doing is building fucking tree houses and fucking underground forts. The rest of it, like the whole like, oh, the world's going to blow up and we got to protect our family. That's just this weird neuroses. That's the rationale for I'm a grown up with money and I want to build an awesome tree house. Well, you kind of already do have a tree house, like an underground doomsday sound studio. I know. And it's like my favorite room in my house because it's like my weird little nugget room. It's not even a proper room.

The door is a curtain. Right. But there's a part of me that's like, man, I totally want to buy a tanker truck or something and bury it underground and put bunk beds in it. I really, truly do too like like i'm the guy that like looks at like a converted like school bus and it's like that's super neat i want to do that what do i want to fucking school first of all if i want a fucking camper i'll just go buy a camper like i don't need to like buy a school bus then make it a camper like i just buy the camper but but part of me is just like that's super cool and i want it real bad i just don't want to drink bleach like this is like going down a road that

i recognize like leads to madness like i look down that road i'm like then i become like a weird gun hoarding redneck and i don't want to be a weird gun hoarding redneck. I just want to bury a fucking septic tank in my backyard and like fill it full of Oreos or whatever these crazy people do because it's hilarious. A long black cock, long black cock. Well, at the outset, we promised you some kid fucking. Oh, God. And we hate to disappoint.

I really want to disappoint. This story comes from the New York Post. Islamic cleric. Shocking. Wow. Which one? Advocates marriage between kids and adults. A Turkish cleric, which actually I thought that part was interesting because Turkey is often cited as one of the more moderate Muslim nations.

A Turkish cleric supports marriages between children and adults and basically says, children can marry even before puberty. They can be marriages between children or between a child and adult. For example, a marriage between a 7-year-old girl and a 25-year-old man or a 7-year-old boy with a 25-year-old woman.

There are no inconveniences preventing their marriage. I think there's at least one because you what you got to do is you've got to convert the baby room into a new baby room and that's an inconvenience i think having a seven-year-old uh spouse presents a host of inconveniences um first of all you got to help them with their homework, which super sucks. Yeah.

And then, you know, with a 7-year-old and a 25-year-old, the lube costs alone will drive you to the fucking poorhouse. That's a lot of money. Although those are oil-rich nations. I got to admit, when I made that joke, I was planning that joke, and I'm like, maybe I won't say it. Maybe that's pushing it too far. Yes.

Yes. I got you to go along with it. It's terrible. That's just fucking horrible. Well, you know, the other thing you don't have to worry, too, is you don't have to vet the preschool. You know, if she's already married, nobody's going to touch her. There you go. You know?

It'd be very conflicting on your anniversary like like you get the first anniversary you want to do something special but she wants pony rides because she's fucking seven she wants you to brush her dolly's hair and you're 39 before you can take her out for her first drink. Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine? You're like, it's so fucking annoying. You want to go out for a drink, hon? No, you can't because you're fucking seven. What are you going to do, cry about it? Yeah, you get to say that for another 15 years. I know.

You know, after that first decade of marriage and she can finally drive? Oh, no. Because she's not from a country that lets women drive. It says here, though, we're playing this up where he's actually going to have sex with the young girl. And I don't think that that's right because it says it here it says after the backlash this guy tweeted that he did not mean that six-year-olds can consummate a marriage only that their marriage can be arranged with their parents approval so it's kind of like big brothers big sisters with the promise of eventual sex there you go well that's good because that way the parents can you can sell your children

you know on layaway. That's nothing. Yeah. Selling your child into future slavery is really so much better than fucking a six year old. Look, it's future slavery. It's not present day. Gosh, you fucking paint everything with a broad brush. Like who would want somebody like who would be like man i want a girl who's

seven that's what i'm that's what i'm looking for i'm looking for a first grader that's there are no inconveniences how about the fact that it's just generally inconvenient to marry children. Oh, man. But I think that the thing we're overlooking, though, is that there are probably some benefits. Like when you go to the movies, there's one adult and one child ticket. That's true. You know what I mean? So you're saving a little bit of money. I mean, that's very convenient.

I mean, ordering off the kids menu. She may be able to sit on your lap when you fly. Hey, I thought you weren't consummating the marriage. Want to contact the guys? Go to DissonancePod.com to get links to their Google+, Facebook, and Twitter accounts. If you want to contact them directly, send an email to Dissonance.Podcast at gmail.com. Or you can call and leave a message at 740-74-DOUBT. That's 740-743-6828.

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all the patrons and people who rate us. You fucking rock. So this story comes from the Raw story, and this story is actually a reaction to something Pope Francis had said the other day, particularly in regard to the Hebdo thing. British Prime Minister rebuts Pope Francis. In a free society, we have a right to insult religion. So after the Pope's recent comments about how, you know,

religion is kind of off the table as far as criticism is concerned, especially as far as, you know, vocal, aggressive criticism and ridicule is concerned. British Prime Minister David Cameron defended the right to free speech, saying that in a free society, there is a right to cause offense about someone's religion. I'm a Christian. If someone says something offensive about Jesus, I might find that offensive. But in a free society, I don't have a right to wreak my vengeance upon them. And I thought, man, fucking bravo. Push back on that shit.

I actually think that the current pope is a breath of fresh air in many ways. He's much more progressive, but he got this one wrong. Oh, God, did he ever. That's the dumbest shit he's ever said. Yeah. You can't protect people from being offended. Someone's always going to be offended by something. You can't walk through your life with an offense cushion around you, like an offense force field where you'll never be offended.

You're going to be offended a lot in your life. And to shelter people from that is a disservice to those people because they need to be able to be able to experience that because somebody is not going to care about them enough to always care how they feel about something and when they finally wind up with somebody who doesn't care and they say something like this it could really make them snap so what what you've got to do is you just got to buffer yourself you got to be willing to be able to walk through the world and have people say shitty stuff and just learn to take it and be like you know what that's a stupid fucking thing you said or I don't agree with that or whatever it is and just move through and just deal with it.

There shouldn't be any coddling, especially of ideas. There's no privileged ideas. You don't get to coddle ideas. Ideas should be able to stand on their own merit whether or not they're true or not. Not whether or not they make you feel good yeah you know and what's the end like where does where does that end is it end with religion or does it end with all forms of offense you know so like if we give religion this this sort of like free pass that oh well you know you have freedom of speech but you can't offend people well you can't offend people based only on religion, or you can't offend people in general.

So then all of a sudden, all of a sudden, we're living in a world where we have to constantly worry. If you were to take that tack and really run with it, you'd be living in a world where you constantly have to worry about, you know, whether or not something you said was offensive and whether or not somebody now has a right to wreak some kind of physical vengeance for the words that you used you know so if i walked in and i told a dirty joke and somebody was offended by my dirty joke um and they said hey man i don't fucking appreciate that joke and i'd be like oh well sorry you know and we didn't have a fucking spirited debate about it if i walk in and i tell a dirty joke and somebody's like that fucking offended me and they pull out a fucking gun and shoot me and all of a sudden i'm living in a world where it's like well

you did offend them yeah no fuck how can i you know so why would religion get a privileged stance if we're going to be fair about this conceptually and we're going to say that like ideas can't offend well then we all need to walk. We just need to lose the ability to convey ideas with language then. Because at some point, someone's going to be offended by every goddamn thing you say. So this story comes from Right Wing Watch. How the no-go zones myth traveled.

It's impossible for me to say properly. No-go zones sounds like a filled pastry of some kind. It does. To me, it's like one of those weird, awkward words that sounds like a food, but a food you don't want, like gogurt. Yeah. You know? Like, hey, may I have some gogurt? Like, I know it's yogurt, but I just don't want it now.

Yeah. I actually really like yogurt, but if it's gogurt, it just sounds like somebody peed in it or something. Yeah, it sounds like somebody went it, and you're just not interested. Like, oh, yeah, I want a no-go zone. Is that like a calzone? Yeah. I don't know. If there's a no-go zone in Italy, it's a calzone.

How the no-go zone's myth traveled from the anti-Muslim fringe to the mouths of GOP politicians. So this was hilarious because these fucking goofballs talking about the Islamification of Europe and they're talking about these no-go zones, these zones. They're saying there's over 700 of them where the authorities have allowed Sharia law to be imposed and that that's spreading across Europe like that exists. And in fact, there was one person who said like that all of Birmingham is a no-go zone, that basically all of Birmingham is a Muslim-controlled area where non-Muslims fear to tread and that these no-go zones are spreading to the states. And it's all made up like it's all made up. Like we know that there are some areas we've covered areas. We covered stories where there's some isolated pocket neighborhoods where like these Muslim patrols, like these guys who fucking take it upon themselves to walk around and harass people that drink or smoke or wear tight clothes.

But they're talking about like huge swaths of countries like France and entire major cities like Birmingham that are no-go zones and that the authorities have legitimately allowed these areas to be governed by Sharia law. And it's just horseshit. And Fox News, of course, picked up on it and ran. Yeah, they ran with it. A bunch of other people started talking about it. There was some clips on here on this particular story. They've been taken down.

But, you know, they're talking about how there's 700 no-go zones where the authorities uh have allowed sharia law to be imposed and it's going to be happening in the united states and you're thinking that will never happen in the united states right that's just not going to happen where you have a a community of people unless you're like fucking in the middle of fucking appalachia or something right where nobody can get to you unless you're in fucking airwolf or something like the only way to get to you is like a helicopter from the early 90s dude that was the knight rider of helicopters that's what that was holy shit how do you pull airwolf out of here but that's the only way that you could like you like you can only get there

by either airwolf or trebuchet like those that you could like you like you can only get there by either airwolf or trebuchet like those are the only two ways that you can actually get like if it was if it was connected at all to any type of major road there's no way anybody would allow sharia law to go unchecked and just say oh well this village elder is the person who arbitrates the laws. That doesn't work that way. It doesn't work in a country that has an established system of rules and laws. Right. That only would work in an area where they like Saudi Arabia.

Right. Like where there are no laws, like where there's no codified laws, where the laws are just like Sharia law. Here's a book and here's some judges and the morality police are just going to pick you up. You know, civilized fucking Western nations actually have a codified system of laws and that's what they use. There is saying in this that World Net Daily talked about this and an anti-Muslim activist, Pamela Geller, she talked about in WND World Net Daily, she said that it can be very frightening, the no-go zones, the Sharia zones, where firefighters and police cannot go. They are many times lured by particular criminal activity into these zones, only to be ambushed. We see it in the UK, increasingly the imposition of Sharia law,

and people think it can't happen here but it is happening here and it's like this is like the most base and bland kind of fear-mongering that you can possibly come up with it's like this idea that like they're coming to get you barbara like all right all right yeah the fucking scary muslims are coming to get us all we're all we're all gonna die of sharia law i'm fucking super fucking afraid of that of the things you know that happen in other countries i think sharia law is is horrible i think it's a horrifying oh absolutely where it's real yeah yeah it's horrifying right but the idea that there's that's somehow going to be a threat on our democratic nations. No fucking way.

Are you high? And, you know, like the difference is like you. We don't you don't have to. If you want to criticize Sharia law, let's do that. It's a bad idea. Right. Like basing your laws on an old book with nothing important or interesting to say is a bad idea. Like, I think we can, we can all, all listeners to this show can probably agree on that.

But this idea that like Sharia law is going to spread like some kind of, you know, virus and infect our nation. And then, you know, we're all of a sudden, you know, oh my God, Ohio has fell to the Muslims. You know, it's's not that's just such bullshit it's not gonna happen it's it's part of this um fucking apocalyptic wet dream that these christian fundamentalist nut jobs have and that they use to motivate people out of fear um and it's based in nothing even remotely approaching reality it's fucking time cube crazy

you know there there is nothing normal about being a sodomite there is no life that will come out of a rectum you cannot produce life it's only death every time there's nothing in a rectum except waste refuse and death this story also comes from right-wing watch liberty council christians who discriminate against gays are living out martin luther king's legacy what are you talking about i thought it was rosa parks oh my gosh let me let me just read a piece of this fucking garbage. This is a press release which was sent out to celebrate, I guess, or desecrate more accurately, Martin Luther King Day. It said, as we remember today the life and legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., we are inspired by his courage to combat injustice that had become

embedded in our culture and law. Hmm. Has become, I think. Anyway, writing from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama, Dr. King said, I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to obey just laws conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws i would agree with saint augustine that an unjust law is no law at all

marriage and then that's the end of dr king let's be super fucking abundantly clear right i don't want to i don't want there to be even the remotest possibility that I'd be unclear here. Then the next paragraph begins the nuttery. Marriage, as the union of one man and one woman, was not created by government or religion. It is rooted in natural law, said Matt Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Council. Same-sex marriage is contrary to the natural created order of God Almighty. Thought it wasn't created by religion. Anyway, laws... He just said that in the prior sentence.

Laws deconstructing natural marriage and which compel people to affirm sinful sexual behavior or unions are unjust. Today, the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King is being lived out by bakers, photographers, florists, candlestick makers, ministers, court county clerks, and owners of wedding venues who have lost their businesses, been forced to pay exorbitant fines, been threatened with jail, and made to choose between the natural created order of marriage between one man and one woman and judges who side with same-sex couples. between one man and one woman and judges who side with same-sex couples. Because if there's anything we can take from Martin Luther King, it's the great legacy of discrimination against minorities.

It's passing on that discrimination to other generations. You're absolutely right. When you're reading this and you're reading through it it's it ends with the one paragraph ends with a quote from dr king and then the the next paragraph starts with a quote but then you have to read through and it says oh that was said by this other douchebag who's fucking the chairman of the liberty council or whatever right the idea that you're that you're going to disobey unjust laws, what's the unjust law? Where is the injustice? That's the thing.

There's no one there that is saying the injustice is directed at me. Who's the person who's saying the injustice is directed at me that two guys get to get married? Who's the person on the outside of that marriage who is saying that there is an injustice to where's the law i don't even know which law like is there a law that forces you to get a gay marriage that would be an injustice no one's no one's asking you to marry a dude there is no law saying you have to do this thing the only thing the law is saying you have to do is not or that you cannot do is discriminate so so is that the law he's proposing that we break i don't know discrimination and then you're gonna cite martin luther king jr to promote discrimination

it's it's co-opting underdogs so that you could sound like you're an underdog but i mean it's like it's like citing elvis to be like i hate rock and roll, said Elvis. Like, what are you talking about? What are you... It's like citing Hitler and being like, I love Jews. I know, it's so antithetical to their fucking message. It's like citing Stalin being like, I like feeding people.

We believe we're moving into a supernatural season where if needed god will multiply food i have seen god multiply food more than one time when i was cooking i mean when my kids were little they were always bringing their friends into the house and i remember you know spooning out spaghetti or whatever just praying and the spirit over that and God just made more and more and more. You know, I've seen oil multiply as I was praying for the sick. I've seen bottles of oil just fill up about a cup at a time of oil. I'm so proud of this story, Cecil.

I found a sports. I literally laughed out loud when I read this. Oh, what a great, great story. This one comes from the Huffington Post. Seahawks' Russell Wilson suggests God made him throw four interceptions to set up a dramatic comeback.

God hates boring football games. I'll tell you what, I was watching this game, and it was a pretty boring game. The Packers looked like they had sort of set this one up. It was 19 to 7. It looked like there was very little chance that the Packers were going to lose it. The Seahawks were fucking up like crazy.

Russell Wilson, like I said, through four interceptions. It wasn't a fun game to watch. It was boring. Then out of nowhere, they just start coming back with all these different things that happened, but none of them really had to do except for the very last play had to do with Russell Wilson. I mean, Marshawn Lynch ran for a really long, a bunch of really long runs and then scored a touchdown. They, they, they got an onside kick, which is something that's rare in football and they wound up recovering their own onside kick.

So like none of these things had anything to do with russell wilson and then you know here's the thing he says that's god setting it up to make it so dramatic so rewarding so special you don't need god's help to throw interceptions those are easy to throw you could just throw them you don't even need god's help to make it exciting just start every game by throwing the first four balls away. And what happens if they lose the Super Bowl? Is he going to – because clearly he blames the bad shit on God too. At least he's being somewhat logically consistent when he's saying that God made him throw the interceptions. Because if God made him win, God also was played up,

played a hand in him throwing interceptions too, which is, you know, is the most consistent I've ever heard of any sports player ever saying, but what happens when, you know, if they lose the Superbowl, which could happen, right? They could lose the Superbowl to the Patriots. What happens then? Is he going to say, well, God just wants to make it more dramatic for when we come back next year? No, I think the answer is God's a Patriot. I mean, God loves America, man.

Do you think God is actually going to allow some fucking pinko commie city like Seattle to defeat the fucking Patriots? I think you're right. And I think the reason why is the score against the Packers was only like 28-22. Fucking the Patriots detonated the Colts. It was like fucking 44-7 at the end of the game.

So clearly God loves them way more. I'm actually a little surprised if God's intervening in football that just Texas doesn't always win. Like wouldn't the Cowboys just win everything? Or the Texans. Well, I didn't even know there was a Texans. There's a Texans. I was actually very pleased with myself for remembering the Cowboys. I actually almost said the Oilers, but then I remembered that they don't exist anymore.

I think so. Yeah, you need to go back in the Wayback Machine for the Oilers. I haven't watched a football game since I lived with my dad. So it's awesome. It's been a long time. Right wing watch is where this next story comes from. Todd Starnes says some awesome shit that you just have to hear to believe. And I like that.

I think that's exactly it. I was going gonna introduce the story but just reading the title of it so ruins the delight the sheer i know because you you're just waiting for this tubby little jerk to say some stupid shit all right here's todd todd starnes and his todd starnes fucking minute of shame. By now we all know that President Obama wants universal community college. Free tuition for every person in America. How can you make that sound bad? Right?

Like, ah, fucking the president wants people to be educated. What are we, some kind of competitive global economy where education is key to our future success? Oh, what kind of dream world do you live in, President Obama? Well, looks like Obama wants everybody to be Mr. Thinky Pants. Oh, Obama doesn't want young people to be crippled by debt. Oh, look at us. Here we are starting our lives not underneath the yoke of crushing depression.

Oh, that's awesome. There's a lot more of this. But I'm having a hard time finding where the Constitution mandates that every American is entitled to an associate's degree. Wait, the Constitution doesn't mandate nearly anything that happens with the government. Yeah, we do lots of things in the Constitution. Like like the constitution doesn't mandate that the government build expressways you know but we fucking the constitution doesn't mandate that we send a man to the moon right like yeah we still just like we still do stuff yeah like we're not like reading the constitution like oh should we feed the poor i don't know if it says nothing about that in here so fuck them yeah we are now six years into the obama presidency and they have a reputation for being less than truthful take for example this notion of free

community college it turns out that free education is going to cost American taxpayers $60 billion over the next decade. That's a pretty good deal. Yeah, I'm willing to pay that. $60 billion over the next decade? That's $6 billion a year. That's a really, really good deal. For half of a bachelor's degree? So let me just think about this as a parent of two children.

So let me just think about this as a parent of two children. So if I were to send kids to my local university, like University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, that's a pretty good university. It's downstate. The tuition for that in-state, room and board, each year, roughly $20,000 to $30,000. So if I sent my kids there for four years and I've got two kids, and let's call it $20,000 to $30,000. So if I sent my kids there for four years and I've got two kids and let's call it $20,000, I'm spending $80,000 to educate each kid. I'm spending $160,000.

I get to knock half of that off. I get to save personally, personally, Cecil, $80,000. That's a lot of money. I'm super willing to save $80,000. And you know what? Here's the thing. I don't have any children and I'm still willing to pay that for other people. Because it's generally a good idea.

Like, like, isn't, isn't that how you build a better society by building a more educated workforce? Like if the, if you, cause don't we, don't we think that by doing that that there's going to be kids who are saying man i can't afford college or parents who are saying man i can't afford a four-year university degree who can say but now if you cut the goddamn price in half right now i can because i can go two years to the to the, two years to the university, walk out with my degree, and now we have a more educated society. How is that a bad thing? Isn't that a society you'd rather live in? We spend, I just did a quick little search here,

we spend about $10 million an hour in taxpayer money for afghanistan 10 million dollars an hour it get you you get 60 billion which is going to be 10 years to put everybody through college you get to that in 250 days yeah you know i actually did a similar search just to take a look and see how much just the F-35 cost. And costs for the F-35 could reach as high as $300 billion. Right. For an airplane. Right. So that's 50 years of kids going to school.

Yeah. Like, which builds us a better world? You like which is the better world which one do you want to live in the one where people are educated or the one where we have a handful of really sweet airplanes i kind of don't want to choose don I know. Don't worry, Cecil. You won't have to. And that doesn't even include all the free condoms and cell phones and medicinal marijuana bongs. What? And there are these kids with their rap music and their jello pudding pops. And they're smoking all the reefers.

Kids these days hopped up on the goofballs. What are you talking about? With your medical marijuana bongs. Oh, gosh. It's like that line came right out of a 1950s movie called Glue Sniffing Madness or something. Give me a break. You know, back when I was growing up, college

kids were expected to work their way through school. It was considered shameful to ask for a handout. But this is Obama's America. And the entitlement crowd thinks they're entitled to our money. I'm Todd Starnes. Wait, nobody's asking for a hand.

Nobody's asking for anything hand Nobody's asking for anything Nobody's clamoring and being like Please, please give me a handout The government's just going to be like Hey man, we got this Why is that? That's not a handout Nobody's getting a handout

Because the taxpayers pay for it And once these people become productive members of society After they graduate from college They will continue to pay it So it's not like anybody's getting a handout since we're all fucking shouldering the burden and the other thing i want to talk about too is like well back in my day we had to work through college well let me tell you something i put myself through college working through college it was a less than ideal scenario like there were plenty and i'm sure many other people did too, but there were

plenty of opportunities that I could not avail myself of because I had to work full time and go to school full time. And I'm not bitching about it, but I am saying that it's a less than ideal scenario. Don't we want to create more opportunity for young people? Isn't that, isn't that people isn't that isn't that isn't that what's going to build a better world for for me to live in as i age like even if i'm just looking at this from the most selfish possible perspective when i'm 65 i want to look around and have an awesome world to live in i don't want to look around and be like man fucking young people turned out stupid we're sort of fucked now you know that's not a world i want to live in i want to look around and be like man those educated youngsters fucking killed this world we live in now is great

i'm selfish so i enjoy that for the next 20, 25 years. He wants to keep creating this pushback, this pushback between the baby boomers and the rest of everybody. Because the baby boomers want to seem like they're the ones running the show. And they had it so hard and had to walk fucking uphill two goddamn ways to school. And it snowed every day in the middle of fucking July. And it sucked. And the world was covered with cinders and fucking they were all chimney sweeps and they asked for some more and they couldn't get some more it's like fuck off you know everybody had it fucking tough growing up go fucking suck a dick

todd starnes what it's like it's also part of that like that myth where um and i don't know if this is human nature ceaseless or what but there there's like this prevailing idea that like well I mean I had to do it and it was horrible so you should have to do it too it's like you know I actually don't want people to like I want to look at the parts of my life that sucked and be like geez I would like to not have people go through

that and I'd like to look at the parts of my life that were filled with opportunity and awesomeness and be like let's have more of that in the world rather than less but there's this this thing where people are like yeah well when i was you know in my residency i had to work a hundred consecutive hours you know up to my fucking elbows and fucking human organ transplants and that's how we should train all doctors and it's like really because that the ideal way like all all these professions seem to have their own their own version of the same thing you know like well i'd uh you got to

put in your time you gotta you gotta suffer you gotta you know crawl through the shit before you get to the shinola or you know whatever it fucking is i don't know those fucking folksy bullshit sayings but you know what i mean they all have the same kind of nonsense and i and you got to look at and be like but it sucks where's the value in things just sucking i don't see it you want answers i think i'm entitled you want answers i want the truth you can't handle the truth so this story comes from right wing watch sandy rios obama used islamic subliminal messages in the State of the Union. Pretty compelling argument, Cecil. I think we should let the listeners decide for themselves.

Sure, yeah. I don't know. I mean, is that really what she's saying here? Because it doesn't feel, maybe it is. Let's listen to it. He mentioned Annapolis, you know, for the different academies. Okay, okay. And then when he mentioned the Colorado Springs, Fort Collins is Air Force Academy,

not Colorado Springs. Okay, all right. Well, somebody will pick that up today. Maybe you're the first one, Kevin. You know, the other thing he said that I caught, he has done this before. You know, there are five pillars of Islam. And he used the term pillars again in his speech last night. I'd forgotten about it, and I don't even know where it is. I've got so many pages in my hand here. But it's just really interesting.

Language can actually give us some insight, choices of words. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for that catch. Yeah, I think that is what she's saying. I think she's saying, like, that he's using the word pillars to try to insert some kind of, you know, or that he's subconsciously using the word pillars and tipping his hand, you know, that he's really a secret Muslim or something. I don't know, man. Like, I don't know.

I'm trying to get on her crazy train. Secret Muslim. something. I don't know, man. Like, I don't know. I'm trying to get on her crazy train. Secret Muslim. Yeah. And OK, so he mentioned pillars. Like, what is it? Are we all the Manchurian candidate? Are we all just going to immediately when he says pillars be like, oh, I must worship Islam.

Which way is Mecca? Which way is Mecca? I like the idea that we don't even have to fully elucidate what we're actually trying to get across. If we just use the wrong noun occasionally, like pillar. Oh, my God. What? I mean, are you kidding me? Like, you're in Washington, D.C.

There's fucking pillars literally everywhere. Like, every building. Or maybe if you're a Republican, they're columns. I don't know. But I mean, still, are you fucking kidding me? There's fucking pillars. You're surrounded at all times by pillars. Like Islam does not have a fucking toehold on pillars like everybody oh if you say if you use pillars you're as long fuck we were going to build

this thing what were you going to hold it up with well we were going to use pillars but they're out of the fucking question or it's like some engineer somewhere is sitting around like blueprints like well how many uh how many pillars do we need to hold this building up oh it looks like the load will hold with five better add a six so we don't become islamic it's like it's like uh go into the go into the get your change and it comes back at 666 you're like no i'll just you just keep the change right you just drop it out of your fucking house it's the same thing it's the same thing if anything comes up five pillars you just gotta fucking run screaming

like your goddamn hair's on fire it's like how much does it cost uh 387 fuck i only have four i'll get 13 cents that's unlucky you know what i'll i i don't want it anymore i gotta go and just like run out the door i mean how crazy are we at this point you just gotta build a building with five pillars and it's got its address is 666 and it's 13th floor i'd be the most luckiest islamic-iest building ever building ever so we want to thank our patrons our most our newest patrons of course we want to thank sean liam atul mario paul zaid jerry tim frazier and robert thank you all so very much for your generous donations uh your generous your donations go a long way into making sure the show happens. So we thank you all so much for giving us your hard-earned dollars.

So we got a lot of great comments about the episode we did on the Charlie Hebdo cartoons and sort of what happened over there. We got a lot of great commentary. A lot of people said that they really enjoyed the show. There was a couple of pieces of contention though that we wanted to talk about um one is the first one here is from david and david talks a little bit about sort of giving us the perspective uh that we were sort of searching for when we were talking at the end of the program when we weren't sure sort of if Muslims over there were sort of systematically disenfranchised. Yeah. And David says that it sounds like you might be open to someone who

grew up in France giving a bit of perspective. And we appreciate this. He says, so to keep things in order, let's talk about the Berkha band first. The band was introduced as a right-wing political trick to galvanize the French political masses. The last French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, was sort of the George Bush of French politics and figured out that the best way to keep getting elected wasn't to pitch to his own audience but to stir up a storm. There's a huge problem with ghettoization of North Africans, Algerians and Moroccans primarily, in big French cities. They're discriminated against when they apply for jobs, university programs, and the French government responds by saying that it is blind to race and ethnicity, so it's not racist.

So we say we're not racist, so of course we're not racist, right? Result is huge numbers of Arabic-speaking French people living in shithole ghettos outside of Paris, Marseille, Grenoble, and other cities. I'm sorry, I mispronounced all of those. And are very pissed off about never really being considered French. Rather than do the hard work to integrate these people, Sarkozy introduced the Burka ban to throw fuel on the fire and get his electorate, largely the Jewish and Catholic right wing, out to vote him back in.

And second piece of background needed, France is one of the few countries which has actually criminalized anti-Semitic speech and writing. It's against the law to write or say, for instance, the Holocaust didn't happen. So instead of ridiculing and proving wrong the idiots who have said and written these things, French authorities have jailed them.

This has caused the same French Muslims of North African descent, whose grandparents' villages in Algeria were colonized by French armies, to say that there's a double standard. Charlie Hebdo can lampoon Islam, but a comedian called Diodon, I'm sorry, who satirized the Jewish faith, was served court orders and barely bailed out of a long jail sentence. So really, David, I just want to say thank you, because this is information. We're not French. This is very specific information on the political and cultural life of the French people and kind of what's going on with regard to the plight, I guess I should say, of North African Muslims. And this is information I certainly was not privy to. So while it in no way abdicates responsibility or mitigates the damage or changes our thoughts

or feelings about the EBDO attacks, it is nice to have a little bit of context to the situation to better understand it. And also, Cecil, I think to better understand another listener's email that we got a lot of feedback on with regard to the black Panthers and the jihadists. Yeah, there was, we, we read an email last time where somebody had said that,

that the jihadists are like today's black Panthers. And then they were talking about Martin Luther King and we got, we're going to read an email here specifically about that. This is from Erica. Erica says, One thing I enjoy about your show is that you seem to understand your privilege, and to the best of your ability, you understand and explain the points of view of those who are marginalized in this society. Therefore, I was truly confused and disheartened that you did not reject the ridiculous premise

of the email that the listener sent comparing religious atrocities to the fight of civil rights and the way it manifests the United States several decades ago. Although you did come down, you didn't come down on his side. You hemmed and hawed to the tune of it's not exactly like that argument he presented. And the argument he presented was inaccurate and racist to its very core since i tend to go off on tangents i want to avoid it here i will condense my issues into three main points it is the very height of white majority privilege to dictate uh to a marginalized group how they should protest their perceived oppression we see malcolm x show us your martin

luther king what the fuck is that bullshit? Both of these leaders fought for civil rights for people who were literally being oppressed via death and incarceration, manufactured poverty and police violence by a government and fellow citizens alike. asshole didn't didn't like Marshall Malcolm X's harsh words and he was doing it wrong please show me an instance where Malcolm X was directly or indirectly responsible for the loss of life in his fight for freedom for himself and others and then she says killing people over cartoons is not the same as taking up arms in response to repeated and relentless episodes of beating maiming and killing by the police forces sworn to protect and serve everyone except those dark people over there and then she finally says malcolm x was not a black panther i know we all look alike in our history in america isn't all that important or relative to the majority but fucking a at least get your facts straight before you sit down and write this

bullshit fellow listener okay so uh she was upset by, and we actually got tweeted at, and a couple people said that we totally fucked that up. I think people were mad that we didn't say that we disagreed with it fast enough, but I re-listened to that segment, and I think people are hearing what they want to hear rather than what those actually said. We disagreed with what the person said so that's let's just lay that out there we didn't we didn't hem and haw about that particular thing neither tom nor i think that it is in any way comparable that the black panthers are the same thing as jihadist shooting cartoonists tom and i actually weren't thinking that that email was really about cartoonists at all. In fact, we were thinking that the email was about systematic disenfranchisement of the Muslim people in other countries. That's how we were approaching it.

We were not approaching it, and that might have been a fault of ours in our own interpretation of that email. And that might have been a fault of ours in our own interpretation of that email. But I know Tom and I, when we talked about it beforehand, we didn't even – it never even entered my mind to think about the cartoons. So that's the first thing. I did not think that the cartoons was what that person was really getting at. That was, is there anything comparable between the civil rights movement here and some sort of systematic disenfranchisement that is happening inside of Paris or inside of France or inside of European countries to the Muslim people? And that's where Tom and I started talking about how we didn't know that. So if that didn't come across, that's our failing, that we didn't explain that correctly. If that didn't come across, that's our failing, that we didn't explain that correctly. But I don't think Tom or I would ever consider the Black Panthers on the same level as the jihadists that are shooting cartoonists in the face. No. And if we didn't make that abundantly clear, if we – you know, one thing that bothers me, though, is this idea that we considered the idea and that that's somehow a failing of ours.

I think that we should entertain ideas. That's a thing that we have this show to do. Now, it's true that Cecil and I a lot of times will kind of vet things ahead of time and get on the same page and kind of plan things out and then do the story. But, you know, every now and again, we'll just talk it out together. And that gets recorded and that gets put on the show. And I'm not going to apologize for entertaining an idea or for not having enough information to robustly reject or robustly embrace an idea.

If I don't have the information, I'm comfortable with saying, you know, I don't know. I don't know enough about that. It's an interesting, we still thought it was an interesting enough email. It's not an email we agreed with, but we thought it was interesting. And that's why it made its way into the show, because it was interesting. And evidently you guys thought it was interesting too because it riled people. It got people – got your blood up. And so that's why it made it to the program.

When you say in your email here, Erica, you say, you know, that we don't know enough about black history. I agree. I think you're right. I don't think I know enough about black history. I think you're absolutely right. I think that's a failing of our country and our educational system that I don't know enough about black history because I really don't. And and I apologize for not. And that is something I'm sorry I don't know enough about, but I don't know enough about it.

So we got an email from Pricey. Hello, godless hellbound heathens. I only recently discovered your show and I'm making my way through your back episodes. I just want to say I love it. I was brought up while living with my grandparents and father, Catholic, and all seemed to be going well. And this is why I wanted to read this one until i set a girl on fire at my holy communion i took this as a sign that there isn't a god i will point out that she was unhurt keep up

the good work um wow i i'm trying to think of how cracker your only responsibility at communion is to eat a cracker how did fire even enter into this equation as the person getting the communion i i'm trying to imagine this chain of events i'm also trying to imagine a chain of events where someone's on fire and yet remains unhurt. Perhaps that truly was a miracle. The reason to believe. We got a message. This is from Duff. And Duff says, of course he finds snowmen create erotic and lustful thoughts.

They look like women in burkas. If the burka were white, of course, which I've never seen. I love the idea that snowmen are just women in burkas. I think that's great. From now on, every time I see a snowman, I'm just going to be like, maybe it's a burka.

That's awesome. We got a message from Big Chesticles. And Big Chesticles sent us uh just a picture uh of the gay agenda so i'm going to put uh an image for this on this episode this is episode 203 i'm going to put the image that that that big chesticles sent in thank you very much for sending i think it's very fun it's awesome so i could totally fucking ruin my nerd cred tom last episode yeah when i was talking about fucking baphomet and i confused it with bahamut i can't believe i did that what kind of a fucking mistake is that rookie oh lord man take

away my fucking star trek phaser jesus fuck you're gonna have to move out of your mom's basement and like smell a girl you know what i'm gonna have to do is i'm gonna have to give up my my cyclops sunglasses that i wear everywhere uh i got a message from uh this is from nicole and nicole's curious if uh actually it's a question for our wives and i'm gonna answer for my wife but uh um she says i would be incredibly uneasy if my husband was saying the shit you guys did over the internet and even more worried about him attending atheist events like you guys do. Do you – like, are your wives worried about your well-being? And one, I kind of use an alias, although it's not really an alias, but it kind of is. So I kind of use an alias. And we try to avoid saying Tom's last name but we don't sometimes forget but uh for the most part we try

to like not worry about stuff like that because i you know i guess the feeling is is that uh you know if i lived in fucking saudi arabia i wouldn't do the show uh but i live in united states and i feel like i'm pretty safe, relatively safe. I feel like there's much more. There's people out there, policymakers out there who make it a lot fucking harder on the Islamic world than I do. So I think they're a better target. Yeah, well, I'll speak to that. My wife has occasionally expressed some very mild concern, like maybe a little discomfort that occasionally will say things on the show that might get us into some trouble down the road. But I think it's such a – it would be such a weird freak occurrence for a show like this to make the attention of somebody who's radicalized.

for a show like this to make the attention of somebody who's radicalized. And then they'd have to go through the work of, and I think you could do it pretty quickly, but they'd have to go through the work of finding us and hunting us down. It's just, of all the targets, wouldn't you go after Sam Harris or something? Wouldn't you go after somebody that's really going to splash the news, not just a couple of dudes with a show. It just doesn't strike me as terribly likely.

And I also just don't want to live my life like that. We have honest conversations on this show that are sort of sprinkled with humor. And I think that I want to have those honest conversations. I don't want to pretend like I'm somebody else. Yeah, I wouldn't do the show. Yeah. I just wouldn't be interested in doing the show if I had to watch my every word. Tom, we got an interesting email from B-Man,

and he's talking about being an atheist apologist. Yeah, so B-Man says, Hey, Tom and Cecil, someone who would consider himself as an apologist atheist, I initially disliked the way you talked about some of the controversial issues. But that was in the past, and now I'm an ardent fan of your hysterical way of dissing on some of the things that are terribly wrong with this world. Regardless, I still consider myself an apologist, and I'd like to point out why. As an apologist, I'm looking at a solution for a given problem. to point out why. As an apologist, I'm looking at a solution for a given problem. When I'm apologizing for something like the massacre at Charlie Hebdo, I am not doing it because I condone the actions of these terrorists. On the contrary, I believe that them and their religion and most

other religions are insane. However, I do not believe that we can put some sense into these people by caustically criticizing them, at least on a global level. There are currently about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and that number is likely to increase faster than any other religion and faster than atheists. On one of your recent episodes, you pointed out that treating these people as nine-year-olds is insulting, but that is essentially the case when it comes to their blind adherence to their religion.

A lot of these people grew up in families or societies that do not allow for a similar level of intellectual development as the rest of us. And I'm not talking about just Muslims. So I think the best way to get our point across is to cajole them like you would a nine-year-old. And try to make them think without rousing their instinct to lash out. Am I being dishonest when I do this? Yes. But I think it's the best way to address the issue

without being a target to a crazy person with a bomb strapped to his chest. Maybe I'm completely missing a point here. And if so, I'd like to hear your opinions. Yeah, I think I think I kind of agree with you. I mean, I don't I I don't think when you say here, you say, I don't believe we can put some sense into these people by caustically criticizing them. I don't think so either. But that's not, I mean, I'm sure you know this, but that's not what this show is about. This show is not about conversion. This show is not about converting people. We created a show that was going to be a preaching to the choir show when we thought that there really wasn't a lot of preaching to the choir shows out there. We thought that there was a lot of them. The market was saturated in tons of people who were not preaching to the choir, who were looking to

convert other human beings to their way of thinking. Tom and I didn't think that that was a worthwhile endeavor because we're not smart enough to convert people. So we didn't think that that was useful. We just thought we could have a fun conversation. Tom and I are on the same sort of level when we think about our own belief structure, and we thought it would be great to make jokes and kid around and have a fun conversation. We never thought that any of this would be used to convert people. So I agree with you that caustically criticizing people is not going to get them to convert. I think you need a gentle hand, especially early that are useful, and in ways that help the person feel like their mind has merit and their thoughts have merit and that their ideas are worth something. And I think that there's lots of great ways to convert people. I don't think that this show is one of them. And I think when we're talking about being caustic, I think there's a difference

between how we treat ideas and how we treat people. And I think that this is a really, really important distinction. So I think it's totally fun and fair to be absolutely caustic and aggressive with ideas. I'm more than happy to do that. And I'll do that probably until my dying day. I certainly would not treat people the same way. So when we're having a conversation, when Cecil and I are having a conversation about other people, other people's actions or ideas, I think it's totally reasonable to be caustic. However, if I'm having a conversation with a believer, I'm going to behave in a very different way because I want to behave in a way that's respectful. That doesn't mean that I won't be honest with that person. I'll be honest, but I would not be caustic or aggressive because I don't see the merit in being caustic and

aggressive. So the way we treat people and the way we treat ideas, we need to differentiate those. And we need to understand that those things are going to have different boundaries in the way that we go about addressing them. So we got a message. This is from Bob. And this message says that there was 800,000 people who marched in Chechnya against the Charlie Hebdo publication in support of the actions of the murderers. Now, I read the link you sent, Bob, and I don't think it says it supports the actions of the murderers so much as it condemns the cartoons. And I think that there's a very important distinction there.

Yeah, you know, we talked about this before the show, and I think it's totally reasonable for people to take to the streets and condemn an idea they don't agree with, right? You can protest ideas. We can protest artistic expression we don't like. We can take to the streets and say, you know, we want to be treated. We can do these things because that's a peaceful protest. And even though I don't agree with it, you it, I don't know anything about Charlie Hebdo.

I don't know if I would like it if I read it or not like it. We talked about it sort of more in the abstract in terms of its free speech implications on our show. But I think it's reasonable and fair and honest and just and socially desirable for people to take to the streets and protest the things that they don't like. And, you know, that's good. That's a good thing. We should encourage that. We should. I would I would. Would I like it better if they were protesting something else? Yeah, maybe. But great. Get together. Protest. It's not the same thing as shooting people and it's not the same thing as supporting the shooters. Yeah, I just don't – I mean, at least from the article that you sent, I don't see that the support for the shooters is there.

They say, you know, like, we love Mohammed. We don't love Charlie. That doesn't necessarily mean that they support the shooters. That just means that they didn't agree with the cartoons and they love Mohammed. I mean, I don't want to read too much into it, but I, and I'm with you, Tom, I think, you know, that people should be able to protest, especially protest things that offend you, right? That's what, that's what that avenue is there for.

Right. I mean, what else, what better way to express your, uh, your, your thoughts and feelings in a democratically viable way than to gather? I mean, that's, that's why it's enshrined in our own bill of rights is the right to assemble. I'm fine with people assembling and saying like, that idea sucks. We like different ideas. And that's really what's happening here. But if they were all holding up signs that said, I think it's awesome they shot that

dude, that would be a totally different story. I would not be behind that. You cannot condone and support violence because that's not supporting an idea or protesting another idea. That's supporting the elimination of human beings for no reason. So that wraps it up for this episode. We will be back with a midweek episode this week, but we are going to leave you, as we always do, with the Skeptic's Creed. Alternative acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead, pan, sales pitch, late night info docutainment.

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