Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 204: Demonic Miranda Rights

Episode Date: January 29, 2015

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is episode 204. And for this episode, we are actually for the first time ever, Cecil, we have a guest on our show a little later to talk about a story that is actually the subject of the story. I know it's crazy, isn't it? It's not just another commentator to yamber on and on about, but it's actually an involved and, dare I say, informed party. This might be a first. This might be the most credible cognitive dissonance episode we have ever released. If for only the six or seven minutes that the person's on, but yes. Yeah, right.

Don't get me wrong. I mean, I'm not blowing this out of proportion here. Yeah, no, you kind of are, actually. All right, I've totally blown this out. I needed an intro. All right? I needed something. God damn, what do you want me to do?

Just launch right into this first story from the Friendly Atheist blog? Let's try that and see where it goes. Jehovah's Witness leader rants against higher education, saying it'll lead to spiritual disaster. That's awesome. I'm going to play a couple clips from this. I had to take this from their Jehovah Witness YouTube.

It's not a YouTube thing. It's on their page. But it's their Jehovah Witness YouTube. It's not a YouTube thing. It's like on their page. But it's their Jehovah Witness sort of program. I don't know. It's like a full long, maybe hour long thing. But luckily, a friendly atheist gave us time codes. So I didn't have to listen to the whole thing. Oh, that is glorious. So I got a couple of clips.

Having said that, it does not change the fact that all too often our young people have met with spiritual disaster, especially after leaving home and living on a university campus. So parents and children, you need to have a goal and you need to have a plan. If you're missing either one, Satan will provide it for you. So wait, so Satan will declare my major? Liberal arts. No, no, no. What he doesn't know is that the Quiznos team is actually also an architect.

So he will provide you with a, here's your floor plan. I redesigned your kitchen area so it's more efficient. And it looks a lot like Quiznos. You got an oven for toasting sandwiches. You got a pepper bar. You got everything you need. Oh, that's awesome. I love that. You got to have a goal. You got to pepper bar. You got everything you need. Oh, that's awesome. I love that. You got to have a goal.

You got to have a plan. Or Satan will provide one for you. It's like you go to Satan as the guidance counselor. And Satan's sitting behind a desk in a fucking dress shirt with short sleeves. You know, like the quintessential sign that you've just given up on your life. Like the quintessential sign that you've just given up on your life. He's got like an old coffee cup with like a chip in it that says like world's best demon. You know?

And he's just sitting there. He's just counting the seconds until retirement. You walk in. He doesn't even look up as you sit in like the shitty fucking folding chair across the desk from him and he's like what do you need what do you yeah i've got some questions about my major major in demonology next have you tried shop class i hear there's a lot of need for welders this is uh you know this is a liberal arts campus. That doesn't seem... Next!

Okay. Worst guidance counselor ever. That is awesome. I love that he'll just provide one for you. Like, oh man, I totally left home without a plan. What was I thinking? It's like getting your Jehovah's Miranda rights read to you. If you don't have a guidance counselor and you cannot afford one, a demonic guidance counselor will be appointed for you.

Satan's like putting everybody in the philosophy class from that guy in that God is not dead movie or whatever. Satan's just like, I have this atheist professor that you're going to love. Everybody takes Bogosian's class. That's what. Yeah, mom, I brought home my syllabus. It's basically just Bogosian and Dawkins. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Put them in Dawkins' class and be like,

this guy's really great. His name's Richard Dawkins. Yeah, so I'm taking physics with Tyson. I've got biology with Dawkins. Philosophy with Boghossian. Astrophysics with Krauss. I'm very likely to come out of this still a Jehovah's fucking witness. I'm taking neurobiology with Sam Harris.

And necromancy with Hitchens. Oh. It's awesome. It's because he's dead. Oh, that's why it's funny. All right. There's more of this idiot talking. Young people, ask yourself,

why am I considering additional education? Because I don't want to be a dumbass? Because I'd like a job that doesn't involve fries with that? Right, right. Is it because I'm pursuing a specific skill or trade

to support my service to Jehovah? Or have I been pressured by the system into believing that higher education will somehow make me a more respected person or lead me to a better life? Man. Will it make me a more respected person? Well, let's put it this way. me a more respected person well let's let's put it this way if you are uh an asshole knocking on people's doors asking if they've heard the good news how much respect do you get compared to i don't know a trauma surgeon right like i think that the fucking asshole knocking on your door is going to be slightly less respected than the trauma surgeon or like will it lead me to a

better life i don't know doesn't education generally lead to a better life i think it usually does that's why people are really keen to get them all right so there's another clip of this guy i have long said the better the university the greater the danger the worse the university, the greater the danger. The worse the university, the safer it is then? Right. Right. No, like if you go to like Compton Community College, it's super safe, man. You know, at those good universities, you'll actually learn something.

Wow. Yeah, right. The better the university, like Harvard, the more the danger. Danger of what? Getting a good job? I think that's accurate from his standpoint, though. I would guess that there's not a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses walking out of Yale. That's true. That's true.

I could be wrong on that, but I'm also not wrong on that. The most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous. One mom, I recall, asked me to try and help her son who was attending a prestigious named university in Rhode Island. After visiting him, I later had to inform her that her son now believed in evolution. She refused to believe

it until he finally told her himself. How sad. It's one of those moments where you're like, there's no way this is real. There's no fucking way that this is real. This guy's actually having a heart-to-heart.

Like, I'm so sorry to tell you. Your son, it's like, is he dead? Oh, my God. He believes in evolution. Oh, no. Why couldn't he just be dead? Or maimed or blinded? Why couldn't he have been run over by a thresher at the farm oh my god not evolution

this guy is great though like there's a whole bunch of stuff in this in this article that is just it all it is is it reminds me of the guy who punched that kid in the face as hard as he could who said oh man he's a smart kid and that was his problem like this reminds me of that guy because he's basically saying oh you know you don't have to be you want to make sure that they're that they're as dumb as possible because if they do get smarter if they are clever they're gonna find out you've been lying to him their whole life in the name of jesus we speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that.

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We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. We speak that. I'm high on the leaving. So this story comes from Right Wing Watch. Mike Huckabee, chapel services in public schools will end school shootings. This is some fun stuff, man. Like, that's what this is. This is some fucking good old days fun stuff. Oh, yeah, it is. Yours and mine.

Happy days. All right, so here we go. I just keep expecting him to, like, he's just standing at the podium to, like, walk up to him and be like, hey, and hit the podium and have it like play music. Like while he's standing there. He looks at the audience. He's like, one, two, three o'clock, four o'clock. All right. So this is Mike Huckabee talking about school violence.

And he's just giving a fucking speech somewhere. And he's just giving a fucking speech somewhere. As a kid, I remember we would have people come to our school and do assemblies and chapel services in a public school. And they would talk to us about Jesus. The Gideons would give us Bibles. And nobody got arrested. Nobody got sued. And by the way, nobody got hurt either.

Because we were bringing Bibles to school people weren't bringing guns to school except for the deer hunters who left them in their trucks bullshit right I looked up like there's a list of fucking Wikipedia school shootings and it goes back to 1790.

Yeah, but they were probably not just like mass shootings, right? It's idiots who brought their gun to school and shot themselves in a leg or shot a classmate because they had a gun. School shootings fucking been happening for since there has been school and or guns. Yeah, I mean, if it's going back to the 1700s, that's literally the beginning of school and guns. Right. That's it.

And before that, it was probably hatchetings. And before that, it was probably clubbings with stones. Somebody accidentally hit their, like, they had their stone tablet and their chisel, and they accidentally put their chisel in somebody's back or something. Yeah. No, it clearly, and mass shootings you know while we think they're mostly a recent phenomenon of like the 90s or something there was there was a big mass shooting in the 60s

and at a school where this guy like got on his fucking tower and fucking snipered a bunch of people so this isn't it's not like this is just a brand new thing that just sort of popped up because we suddenly forgot about God or something. What is with the weird deer hunter rifle truck thing that he's talking about? Because he doesn't want to, the thing is, okay, so you got to couch your statements.

This is a really clever way he does this, I think, politically, is that he says, we didn't bring guns to school. We brought Bibles to school. But I want you to know that I'm not against guns. Right. I'm just saying we didn't bring them to school because we fucking learned about Jesus and stuff. Like we didn't bring him to school, except sometimes we did.

But then we left him in the car. Right. But and that's because we really like guns and we like shooting things. So the NRA will still lobby. Yeah, exactly. It's just so it's just such a weird goofball thing to say. And also like that doesn't it doesn't even remotely reflect the reality of today's world. No, no. You know, like this is like this is like this is a rural America. This is like a rural America. Yeah, but you've got to understand that the Republican Party is built on all these tiny little rural areas.

That's true. Look at Illinois. Illinois is a section of Will County, all of Cook County, and the rest of it. And that's the only blues part. The rest of it is all red. It's all red. It's true. And it's all these little spots. And I was talking to to somebody this weekend and they had a really interesting comment that they

said they said you know go to montana go to wyoming go to these places that are these really desolate out of the way places and you'll understand why people want to keep their guns why they want to keep those things because there's it's not like there's going to be a first responder there sometime today. It's not going to happen. These people have to take care of themselves. And they see that as a as a threat. If you're going to take away these means of protection that they have to help protect themselves from whether it's a bear or it's a fucking it's a human being just some weirdo i don't particularly think that there's a ton of

crime that happens in wyoming where there's just some roving band of like fucking mad max like people who strobe between strive between different farms and slaughter people but you've got to understand that there's a level of self-sufficiency yeah exactly and and it's and it's just it's just it's just a level of okay i want to be ready for this and and i understand that viewpoint right i understand that somebody in the that is living rurally is going to have a totally different viewpoint than you or i because we are surrounded by people where you know you call 9-1-1 tom four minutes max they're going to be at your, you know, you call 911, Tom, four minutes max, they're going to be at your house. You know, I call 911 five minutes.

I live in downtown Chicago and there's a lot of 911 calls. So I'm a little, probably a little slower than you, even though I probably have more police than you, but it's still, there's a, you know, there's a level of safety that we have that they might not have. So they, I understand where they come from. I just can't get there from where I am. You know, I wonder about this message, though, you know, because numerically, this is not a message that you can take to the streets like you can take this to the rural communities. And I know that's who he's pitching it to.

I get that. But in order for you to be a viable candidate, you know, the rural let's let's be brutally honest. The rural communities don't fucking matter. You've got to sell this to, you know, you've got to sell. You've got to pitch this to your cities, your major suburbs, your you know, we all know like he can say whatever he wants in Montana. Right. You can show up to Montana and be like,'m buck-ass naked, but you're not voting liberal, so who cares? I mean he doesn't have to say anything he wants. He doesn't even go to Montana. Let's be honest.

Yeah. So like the strength of this message, it's such a niche message, and it only plays to a – it plays to a base that's already turning out. You know what I mean? Like it's almost like, it's like, it is preaching to the choir. It's cognitive dissonance, the political message. Yeah. You know, there's more of this. We prayed at my school. We prayed the first thing every day. We said Pledge of Allegiance. We had a Bible reading. We had a prayer. And then we prayed again on the way to the cafeteria for lunch. Now, if you'd seen what they were serving in our cafeteria, you would have prayed, too, again. Ha, ha, ha. Cafeteria food is gross.

Hey, you know, what's with the airlines? Fucking really, man, such material. Mike Huckabee sure is edgy. They definitely clapped for that one. So what has happened to our culture? What's happened is that we've lost our landmarks. When we reject the Bible as the objective word of truth, when we say that the Bible is no longer the standard by which we live

and we make it whatever we feel, what we think, what we believe, then we have no landmark at all because the landmark is always being moved to accommodate our lifestyle rather than make our lifestyle accommodate the word of the living God and the power of the Holy Spirit. That guy is wearing two types of cloth right now. Right now. Right now he is. I mean, like, he's saying you can't get you. I don't know how the fuck you say this without your head exploding. Right. He's saying you've got to accommodate your life to look at this word of God.

Yet they throw out over half the word of God in the Old Testament, except for the stuff about the gays. Yeah, it's like, you know, I'm reminded of that book by A.J. Jacobs, The Year of Living Biblically, where he tries to live totally biblically and it nearly ruins every part of his life because it's a book that you can't even actually live by anymore. It's I mean, you can't even actually live by anymore. I mean, you can't work. You can't maintain relationships.

The Bible is not a book. It's a book that was written thousands and thousands of years ago, also over the course of hundreds of years. Right. So it's not like it was even written as a single book 2,000 years ago. single book 2,000 years ago. It was written as a series of books over the course of hundreds of years that spanned a time and a culture that is no longer even remotely relevant to the way we live. It's like saying we need to live our lives by the epic of Gilgamesh. Sure. It's crazy. It's a crazy thing to say. Like, I'm not worried about that.

And what would you do? Like, how would you change your life? It's to say, like, I need to adjust my lifestyle to accommodate the word of the living God and the power of the Holy Spirit. Which one, man? Like, yours? Is yours the right Christianity to follow? Or is it the Pope's? Or is it the Southern Baptists? Or is it the Presbyterians, or is it the Anglicans?

I don't even know. I honestly – you couldn't even begin to start down that road and do it honestly. Yeah, you can't live your life by ancient texts. I mean I learned that last week when I brought a large wooden horse into my boss's office and hid in it. At the time of the judges, it was said that every man did what was right in his own eyes. By the way, it was not a good time in the world because everybody made up his or her own rules. It's always a disaster when we do that. But I would say like, but that's not what we do.

Everybody just doesn't make up their own rules. We live by a social fucking contract. That's not the same thing as everybody makes up their own rules. That's collectively we get together and, you know, decide what kind of society we want to live in. Right. It's not like you can just make up your own rules and be like, well, I'm just fucking going to drive as fast as I can. Right. Sorry. Can't do that. I'm just I'm just going to fucking murder babies like nobody like that's not the society we live in. Just like we don't live in a society that, you know, supports slavery anymore. allowed our government to become a secular government. When we stopped realizing that

God created this nation, that he wrote the Constitution, that it's based on biblical principles, and we allowed those that don't believe in those things to keep pushing us, pushing us, and pushing us away from the government. So we got Huckabee back again. and pushing us away from the government. So we got Huckabee back again. This story from the Raw story. Mike Huckabee, God's blessing will make me the president to stop the atheist secular theocracy. What, the what? The atheist secular theocracy, Cecil.

What that means. That seems like a contradiction. Let's see if he can expand on that. So I am looking at it again. And it's not just because I have some nutty ambition to say, wouldn't I like to be president? Let me correct you. That is a nutty ambition. That's actually exactly why you're doing this, too. And the idea that you would be president is pretty nutty, I think. But I really think, James, our country is in real trouble. And a lot of it is because we've just divorced ourselves from common sense.

We've divorced ourselves from an understanding that we cannot survive as a republic if we do not become, once again, a God-centered nation that understands that our laws do not come from man. They come from God. It's the natural law of God. Our founders really understood that and believed it. Now, I'm not saying that a person should run and say, let's have a theocracy, because I don't think we should. Ridiculous. No, that's not what even our founders want.

We have a theocracy right now. That's a secular theocracy. It's a humanistic, secular, atheistic, even antagonistic toward Christian faith. Oh, my gosh. Do you see that fucking, I mean, he is just covering himself in underdog sauce right now. Man. God damn. We already have a theocracy.

We have a theocracy with no theocrats. With no theology. No theology. That's the other part of it that we don't have and it's being forced on us yeah everywhere you go it's somebody's being secular at me it's terrible i was like like they don't understand how much that protects them they just don't get it they say we don't want to live in a theocracy well the only other fucking option is is a secular world because the moment

you say there's no it's not going to be secular you're in a theocracy it just happens to be the religion you were a part of but what happens to all those people in this in the country that happen to be uh religions of a different persuasion all the all the muslims all the all the catholics all the whatever you know you start hindus buddhists wicc, all the whatever, you start Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, Satanists, whatever, you start naming off all these different groups, they're all going to be fucking marginalized because you're going to have the theocracy that you want in particular. When you take away a secular worldview, you have to replace it with something. No, you don't.

No, no. What you replace it with is not a theocracy and not a secular worldview, you have to replace it with something. No, you don't. No, no. What you replace it with is not a theocracy and not a secular worldview. You replace it with a huckocracy. And that's where Mike Huckabee decides. It's an ad hococracy. And that's what we need to understand. Our basic fundamental rights are being robbed from us, taken from us piece by piece. What fundamental rights are being robbed from you?

Yeah, no, there's that time that you can't be a discriminatory asshole. Is that I mean, that's it, right? I think I'm trying to think of another right. Like what what really has changed? I mean, like, let's actually talk about this. Like what really has changed? What really has changed? I mean, let's actually talk about this. What really has changed? I honestly can't think of anything.

There's the birth control mandate, but that's – I mean, they lost that in the Supreme Court. Yeah, I mean, I guess fundamental rights – but the thing is the fundamental rights don't apply to any – I guess they apply to – they think they're babies. So I guess that that's a fundamental right. But that's not new's been i mean that's 50 60 years old don't ask don't tell yeah so is but so is the fundamental right to kick people out of the military i mean when i think about my fundamental rights i think about the bill of rights right i mean what do you think of i think about like, you know, the the the Bill of Rights. I'm thinking about like my my freedom to assemble my freedom to of speech. But I know that they're talking mostly about freedom of religion. And I'm trying to think of of how their freedom to religion has genuinely been impinged upon in the last.

And I know they're talking about Obama. Right. So it's just limited to the last six years. In the last six years, the only thing I can come up with is the individual mandate, although I don't know how that impinges on anything, from a religious rights standpoint, unless you have some kind of religious right not to have health insurance. I mean, I don't know what fundamental rights are disappearing. Well, are you still allowed to go to church? Yeah. Can you still go to church? Yeah. Can you still go to church? Did they cancel all the churches? I think so. I don't go, so I don't know.

I mean, maybe they did. Did Obama use eminent domain to buy up all the church land and turn it into, like, abortion centers or something? Abortion centers? Abortion mosques? Abortion! Oh, my God! It's like they're all built with five pillars right you know and and then and all they do is is the only two functions they have is abortion and gay marriage and free community college yeah you show up you show up you can take

english 102 right and in the middle of it you you can have an abortion. Yeah, and be gay married. While facing Mecca and sucking a dick. Like it's the perfect... I think, yeah, I saw that bill pass last week, so that's what he's talking about. That must be it. Huckabee's got me on this one. And you would like for whoever runs and whoever is our president to keep God in the center of their focal point. Do you agree with that?

Absolutely, I do. And whether it's me or someone else, and I do ask people to pray, because for me, James, this is not just a political or financial decision. It is a spiritual decision. You know, the only thing worse than not being elected president would be to be elected president without God's blessing. I can't think of a worse place in the world to be than in the Oval Office without God's hand upon you.

I'd rather not get near the place. But if that's a purpose, then so be it, and that's my prayer. That's a little jab against Obama, don't you think? Right? Yeah. Yeah, take that. I want to make sure that God's hand is upon me, so that's actually why I have Catholic priests around at all times. Because I know they're real handsy. Take that. I want to make sure that God's hand is upon me. So that's actually why I have Catholic priests around at all times because I know they're real handsy.

They do. They put their hands on you. So that's for sure. Yeah. They like a stick shift. Fans of that. And, you know, remember that if you are actually chosen by God, as most of the Republican candidates last time around said they were, and then they all lost. Yeah.

So if you are chosen by God, so far your track record is to lose. Yeah, it's not very good, it turns out. It's not a – so I would actually like – I would turn that endorsement down. Like God endorses you, like, pass. Can I get the Teamsters instead can i get any let me get the teachers right i'll take virtually like i get the fucking steel workers pipe fitters or something like just pick somebody i don't care the problem is that god only gets one vote too yeah that's the problem man so he shows up and he's like, I'm voting for, you know, and then the fucking Quiznos demon cancels him out.

Yeah. I mean, it's like a huge novelty vote, though. It's like a big check. It's like a huge. Enormous. Yeah. Right. And he's confused by the ballot.

He's like, I'm undecided on referendum 213. It takes like a really long time. Sucks. Yeah. And if they put him on like a regular size one, he can't actually touch the touch pad because his finger just covers the whole thing. He shorts out the electric ones with the lightning fingers, too. He's like, boss.

Sorry, guys. I don't know why today he sounds like the Quiznos demon, but at the moment he does. Well, maybe he should say, well, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. There we go. Want to contact the guys? Go to DissonancePod.com to get links to their Google+, Facebook and Twitter accounts.

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That's p-a-t-r-e-o-n.com forward slash dissonancepod. Or click the link on the podcast homepage, and you can donate to the production of cognitive dissonance on a per episode basis if you can't spare any money take a second to give us a five star review on itunes or stitcher or spread the word about the show we want to send a big heartfelt glory hole to all the patrons and people who rate us you fucking rock so uh for this story i want to say say that I made some really special concessions. I want to start off before I even introduce the story.

Sure, go ahead, Tom. Because sometimes, Cecil, you have to give some fucking credit where credit is due. Right, absolutely. No, I get it. So, for this story, you know, a lot of times we talk about all the sacrifices you make for the show, right? So you do all the editing. Okay. So just most of the work, actually.

You know, the stuff that has to actually be accomplished in order for us to have a show. Yes. And a lot of times I get shit for not doing stuff or things or knowing anything or doing any of the stuff. But today I think I went above and beyond. So I'm going to reach around here and give myself a little pat on the back, a little reach around courtesy love, if you will. Okay. Because I managed to rearrange my schedule to record an hour, an hour earlier than we

normally record. It is technically 55 minutes but yeah right yeah who's picking a knit now motherfucker listen it is it is 8 p.m oh it's 8 10 actually 8 10 okay well i don't clock that well so as it turns out um and uh and and i'm a little tired a little little beat sure a little wiped out you needed that hour to rest to do the podcast because here's the thing normally when I go down a whole flight of steps

I need some sitting time to recover from that you actually go downstairs at 6.30 take a nap on the desk and then wake up to do the podcast well, to be fair fair i have a landing yeah you know so i break up the journey you know what i mean i don't want to what do you think i'm a fucking triathlete

oh that's awesome uh but we are we are actually joined at the moment by anonymous Steve from SkeptiCule. Now, I don't really know the conversions between things, but Steve, I'm to understand that it is not 8 p.m. your time. It's a fucking ridiculous time of day. I can't believe. But it's an hour earlier than it was going to be. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So it's about, what, 2 o'clock in the morning give or take well it was

yeah he started ranting for about 10 minutes now oh yeah no no keep ranting time keep him up for until like 3 30 4 in the morning sure no problem i look at it this way it's not my time i'm wasting you know such a prick man but uh anonymous steve you were kind enough to join us all the way from across the the great gulf of time and space to discuss this story from the friendly atheist also from your fucking life as it turns out. Judge tells divorced atheist he has to attend church services with his children as part of settlement. Now, before I turn you loose to kind of give us some information about this, my favorite part of the story I want to say is that your ex-wife didn't petition the courts to accomplish this. The judge, it sounds like, made this motion all on his own regard.

So tell us exactly what, you know, kind of what's going on here. What's the story and how did this all come to be? Yeah, for once, I can't criticize my ex-wife or anything. It's a rare treat. She didn't ask for this. The judge came up with it. ask for this um the judge came up with it he regaled us with a couple of i'll spare you the phrases anecdotes about his um catholicism and then dictated that i would well he for first of all he stopped me having the children at weekends when of course there are catholic masses um and

then said i had to take the the boys to uh Mass at Christmas. Because, again, unbelievable for me to say this, but my ex-wife is more conducive than the judge. I do have the boys every other weekend. What we don't know is whether he would not like that because I don't take them to Mass. So we're not really clear about that. But yes, that's right. The judge decided that I would take the boys to Mass.

It's gone through all the appeals processes we could do. And, here's the problem the judge fucks up yeah big whoop the trouble is the system didn't self-correct the system didn't kick in and make it right so effectively we have a precedent in the uk whereby any judge can send anyone to any religious establishment and is not that far short of an apostasy law so so help me understand because i don't know anything about uh well i don't know anything about most things actually but particularly i am uninformed about british law so when this when this ruling came down and he said okay your new divorce settlement it includes this provision what What are the – and your wife doesn't give a shit, right? She didn't push for this.

So what is the real teeth behind this thing? Is there an enforcement mechanism? Yes, it's a two-year prison sentence. What? Up to two-year prison sentence for contempt of court if I were disobeyed. Well, it's not good. I'd like to even try it, not good. I'd like to see them try it. Not just because I've got an underground bunker, but also because – mostly.

Partly because I'm obviously anonymous. Partly because I think all they'll do is draw more attention to their own fuck-up. And so you said you went through the appeals process. Did the appeals court actually take up the case and hear out the ruling or do they dismiss it without a hearing? Well, you start with odd and then you get to bizarre, don't you? Because in order to launch an appeal, you've got to have a judgment, you know, a explanation for the decision. You can't, I've got the court order, but I didn't have a judgment. So I have to, I'll wait for the judgment to come from the court, which is normal. And I'll wait and I contact have to i'll wait for the judgment to come from the court which is normal

and i'll wait and i contact them and i'll wait and i contact them um and they wouldn't the judge would not put his reasons down so i couldn't appeal the appeal court said not having a judgment is great grounds for an appeal and as soon as you get a judgment you're entitled to have one sort of mad cat 22 situation doesn't make any sense at all welcome to british law what the fuck is that so what do your attorneys say or or i don't know big people i don't know what you call them the problem i had to act for myself um and probably that's where the much the problem lies not in me i don't think but because judges kick you around i think if you well they think you're a nobody, and they ever kick you around and end up winding themselves into knots.

So because I didn't have a judgment, I had to sue the judge in the high court to force him to give me a judgment. And from then on, in the appeals process, in two separate, three in the end separate versions of the appeal, the appeal judges didn't refer didn't answer the question because we don't have your constitution i wish we did i'm glad we don't have your crazies but we don't have a constitution either um so uh what we have is article 9 of european convention of human rights which of course enshrines your right to freedom of belief and freedom of thought well we thought over here that that meant that you could not be ordered to go to uh well for example go to church um

and so i in my appeals i referred to i tried to enforce my rights under article 9 and the judges just wouldn't respond to that item in my appeal, they just wouldn't comment on it. And finally, just at the end of last year, after years in this process, I appealed, I had what we call a judicial review, which is in the High Court where you challenge the judicial procedure. And because that didn't answer it either I appealed that and to the appeal judge I said I'm in I very openly said I'm entitled to a decision is this a breach of article 9 or not and that's where the we had the precedent set which we think is precedent which was this is too small an infringement of freedom of thought and belief to amount to a breach of article 9 which means really that

there may be a line in the sand which would be a breach but this isn't it now unless you're going to tell me the qualities difference between a jewish person and a atheist person and a catholic and a muslim unless you're going to try and explain to me the qualities of the difference that means a jew can be sent to a mosque uh or anything it's not a slippery slope it's one way or the other either you know unless you're going to tell me that my beliefs are less than a catholic's beliefs really it's open season really for religious churches wow that's amazing and so how has catholic mass been i well i'd love to tell you so you haven't gone is what you're saying i haven't gone okay and uh to be clear if my oldest son is old enough to make his own mind up about his belief and he is clear to me that he doesn't believe in, which gives me a nice warm glow inside. But if he did, if he did choose to, I would respect his views.

If it was Catholic, I'd say fine, I'd take it to Catholic Mass. If he converted to Islam, I would take him to the mosque. I think that part of this is about their beliefs. And, of course, they are not allowed to leave the faith of Catholicism by this law. Because if they say, and these kids are going to be bigger than me, trust me, when these kids are towering over me, if I can't force them into the car and force them to mass, I could be put in prison. So do you have like do you have access to something similar to the Freedom From Our Religion Foundation or some other foundation that can get you like really high quality representation to make a big fucking deal about this? Because I'll tell you what, like here in the States, like ACLU would be on top of that. FFRF would be on top of that ffrf would be on top of that we have resources we could avail

ourselves of tom i've been snotty about americans for most of my life but that's gone out the window now isn't it i mean there's no chance is there we have a couple of organizations that are talking to me at the moment we think that there's nowhere else to go which is why now I'm in the court of public opinion, which is why there's a change.org petition out there, which, you know, I'd be delighted if your listeners went to. I don't think it's even an atheist thing. I think that theists should be equally worried by this. Right. Oh, absolutely.

Even more so. Well, possibly, because, yes, well, only if you say that our views aren't as important as theirs. But, yes, I take the point. Yes, because a Catholic could be told to go to a mosque or whatever. You know, I think, yeah, absolutely. If you are religious, if you really want to go to the church and you can't go because you're being forced to go to a different one, then I think you've got a real concern here.

And it's no different to my concern. Well, you know, when I say even more so, I guess what I mean is that I can go and just daydream. You know what I mean? Like I'm not missing out on my other religious observance. Oh, I see. And an afterlife. There's no conflict. I can go and daydream and i like i could i could play fucking video games on my phone you know like i it's it's inconvenient but it is not antithetical it's just a location i can make that just a location as an atheist i can be like that's just a weird thing i have to do like well you're right of course you're right but i do resist it

i resist what you're saying oh i would too because i i want to say that our views are as valid as anybody else's but i'll take your point because we for us it would not put us in hell to go to the wrong religion right right that's and i guess that's more what i mean is that when i say even more so this as as a scary precedent you know this is annoying to an atheist, right? It's a waste of your time and energy. And it's an infringement on your rights. And it's an immortal soul if you're an atheist. Yeah. If I happen to be like, man, I missed this really important religious observance that I kind of feel is necessary to go to heaven or whatever because a judge made me go to the mosque instead or the synagogue instead or what have you.

I mean, that's even more of a now all of a sudden you've made up additional conflicts because you've agreed with this other. I don't know. It's just it's crazy. It's a it's a president. You should get behind. Tom, are you saying that this could create a state of cognitive dissonance? So so you said you you are part of the skeptical podcast uh where can people find that a skeptical yes it's skeptic ule um well it's on all normal podcatchers behind skeptical um but if anyone wants to sign this petition if they go to the skeptical web page the facebook page skeptical facebook page at the top the very first item is permanently at the moment the link to the petition that's the best way to go there and i've got to say skeptical i'm going

to plug them ruthlessly because um on their 50th anniversary their 50th episode they invited anyone to send in a piece and i sent in a piece about this and they were they said you know why don't you contribute every episode and that was you know well over a year ago now um which I do they give me a nice solid base from which to launch this uh PR thing really this public relations thing public awareness thing um so that the world can do something because I'm trying to make the following statement true don't piss off an atheist with a keyboard if he knows other atheists with a keyboard. I'm trying to make that a fact. And, you know, all together we can make that a fact.

But this is important. This is not far short of an apostasy law. And it matters. And in England, we sleep through a lot of stuff, you know. We kind of let things slide and we would you know we tend to be a bit less we take things much more calmly maybe than a lot of other people do and i think it's a mistake and i think this is a real problem and i urge people to sign the petition not for me not for my sons but for all of us because we're all entitled to

freedom of thought and we have to make the system understand that. They can find the petition, too. We're going to put a link to it on this episode, show notes episode 204. And you can find that at DissonancePod.com. Steve, thank you so much for joining us. And good luck in this. We hope that you are able to overturn this and actually not be forced to go to jail for not taking your children to Catholic church. Well, obviously that's an unlikely risk, but on principle

that's absolutely right. We must stop this now, not allow it to get worse. It's open door for the wrong sort of people to make the wrong sort of decisions. I've got to thank you so much for letting me come on and to tell you all about Skeptical and the petition and I appreciate your time.

Patty, don't you realize what will happen to you if you refuse to receive Christ? Don't you think I know that? Then you've got to do it now. So this next story also comes from Right Wing Watch. Bobby Jindal's prayer rally advocates putting Christians, unsurprisingly, in control of government and all aspects of society wait what yeah all aspects of society literally no other parts of society okay be governed by non-christians fair so even like you know uh the muslims in our society or the Jews.

Or like, I don't know, people who run ice cream counters. Right. They got to be Christian ice cream counters. You know, I would say that even this show with Bobby Jindal in charge, we would have to have a Christian in charge of cognitive dissonance. Fair enough. Fair enough. So either that means you or I need to become Christian or we just need to take a back seat. Yeah, well, we could take a back maybe to this guy, this guy here.

His name is Gene Mills, and he's talking at Bobby Jindal's little conference here. So there's a couple of minutes of this. The seven spheres of influence, often referred to as seven mountains, represent the big areas of culture that shape nations. They direct and affect public opinion. represent the big areas of culture that shape nations. They direct and affect public opinion. They mold people's minds and it influences people. Those areas were the area of religion, the mountain or the influence of family, the sphere of influence around civil government,

the sphere of influence or mountain around business and economics. The influence that was granted in the area of media. How many of you know these belong to God? It's not coincidental that these seven spheres of influence are under enemy occupation

right now. It's not coincidental. This is D&D, dude. Yeah. I mean, this is fucking he's gonna tell you he's got like a plus six mace of smiting underneath his desk i'm telling you man this is fucking crazy talk you listen to this this is that this is obviously that dominion is it is it's dominionist yeah and and this is this um i think this is this really sort of frightening – how is this any different than a caliphate? This is a Christian caliphate. That's what they're proposing here.

They are proposing a world that is quite literally run by and dictated by the religious influence of a select group, select sectarian group of people within a certain major religion. This is – it's a horrifying thing and the idea that influential political people are dominionists is – I mean this should be a source of scandal. We should look at this as a nation be like that dude dominionist like it should become a fucking buzzword yeah you know he's talking about like pedophile like like god controlling little areas of the government you might as well have a a police force that goes after fucking witchcraft at that point yeah it's no different it's it is it's exactly like the um uh you know the the islamic uh morality police right you know what he's saying is we need to have we need to have christian and specific christian dominionist christian control over uh media this is some big brother shit right over this is some serious like 1984 kind of top-down control where power is asserted not by trickling up from the people but by being dictated down from on high from a select group of people.

This is legitimately kind of some scary stuff. Yeah. There's more. Let me play some more. That you are here today to reclaim territory that rightfully belongs to God right now. It's not coincidental that we have declared war against the principalities and the enemies of the cross. And by the way, those enemies are not flesh and blood. Their power is in spiritual wickedness in heavenly places.

And they're pulled down by the force that operates in you through Christ and his spirit. It's not coincidental that you're here to give a response for a nation that has neglected these boundaries, abandoned these territories, and to ask God to help us to rediscover the ancient landmarks again. rediscover the ancient landmarks again. It's not coincidental that these property lines belong to the sovereign one, and he has an original intent for each of these areas of influence.

It's not coincidental that on December 2013, the 200th anniversary of Louisiana, we knelt in prayer with our governor, the one who called this prayer meeting, and a number of the men who helped to sponsor it and tarried for over an hour, asking God to break unholy alliances and to craft and to forge as we begin the third century of our existence. Wait, what do you mean that's not coincidental? Who cares if it's coincidental?

It's intentional. Yeah, you planned it specifically using a calendar. That's like saying, like, it's not coincidental that I have a conference call at 9 a.m. Exactly. It's not coincidental I have one every week. Right. It's not coincidental that the sales meeting will be on Thursday. Yeah.

That's just stupid. Okay. And all the rest of that is just some fucking Chopra-ism, like garbage. I mean, you listen to that and it's like the boundaries and the blah, blah, blah. None of it means anything at all. It's deep-isms. That's what that is. Holy and righteous alliances.

Father, we cry out for the seven mountains of influence today. We pray that you will give us government, arts and entertainment, education, the church, and the family. I would like to win Trivial Pursuit. I know. I was going to say that. Fucking tell me how many fucking years Babe Ruth was a pitcher. Arts and entertainment?

That's the pink pie, right? That is. And the brown is the history one. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, is he playing the genus edition? No, no, no. They're clearly playing the children's edition.

That our ambassadors would occupy the high places. That you would bring us into a place of understanding that they need to be occupied by the body of Christ because it's rightfully his. Join me as we enter into a time of prayer and worship as we entreat the leadership of the Lord to show us how we occupy these seven mountaintops. Oh, my God.

Fucking terrifying. That is fucking crazy as shit dude that is that is crazy that is fucking cuckoo nuts yeah i can't how do you sit in the audience and hear a guy talk about the seven goddamn mountain tops and how nothing is coincidental and shit these deep isms out at you and not walk away and be like, I love fuck. Like, look around at people and just with your mouth wide open being like, how the fuck do you believe this shit? Well, I just went at some point when you want God to just do something. Yeah.

Like all this time, like people are constantly like, oh, come on, let's all pray to God. We'll ask him to do this shit. Motherfucking God. He's not done anything ever at all. Like he's done like fucking zero things have ever been accomplished. It would be one thing, Cecil, if they fucking prayed and something fucking happened. Right. Right? If the fucking, you know, if he popped up on the projector and like conversed with these but the thing is

like they they go through all these motions and nothing ever happens and it doesn't dissuade them one iota you know what they do is they they wind up taking uh a look at what happened in the world and then just attributing things right yeah exactly natural causes and, exactly. You know, natural causes and natural happenings, and they say, oh, it's like those, remember there was that woman who was saying, you know, we prayed and prayed and prayed, and we pushed the hurricane away from this area, and you're like, yeah, well,

and then it fucking landed on fucking Louisiana. It hit somebody else. Yeah, it didn't hit you, but it hit somebody else, but to them, that's a win. Yeah, no, that's true. It's selfish. You know, 2,700 people died in the World Trade Centers, but God made a little cross, so it's true it's selfish you know 2700 people died in the world trade centers but god made a little cross so it's okay yeah exactly or the or you know the airline went down

but i wasn't on it because my flight was delayed or whatever it's like yeah man god you're a fucking you are really selfish yeah narcissistic fuck bag i think you have to be super narcissistic though to believe in a personal god i think that's a that's an absolute 100 necessity i think you have to be super narcissistic, though, to believe in a personal God. I think so, too. I think that's an absolute 100% necessity. I think you have to think that the universe revolves around you to think that the creator of the universe gives a fuck about you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, the concern, obviously, is if this isn't bottled up in San Francisco, this kind of nonsense, then it's going to be spreading across the entire fruited plain, and you're going to be going to your Burger King in Des Moines, Iowa, and you're going to have a rainbow-colored wrapper for your Whopper.

This story also comes from Right Wing Watch, and it's Brian Fisher time. You'll never find a more directly demonic energy than when you deal with a homosexual agenda. I think you ruined this clip. Let's see what happens. Oh, I hope not. Oh, let's see. But I don't think you will ever find a more directly demonic energy than when you deal

with the homosexual agenda. You know, I've counseled friends who have taken positions that are going to put them kind of in the middle of the culture war on the issue of homosexuality. And I said, you know, you better buckle up because you have no idea. You better buckle yourself in because that giant cock that's going to go in your ass is going to push you forward. How intense the forces of opposition, how spiritually intense the forces that animate the homosexual lobby are. They're vicious.

They are mean. You literally are staring into virtually the unvarnished energy of Satan himself when you come up against the forces that are pushing the homosexual agenda forward. Unvarnished energy? This is

what we were talking about earlier. Satan sends you to shop class to varnish his energy. Look, you gotta varnish my energy. Varnish my... Look, you gotta varnish my energy. My energy's not shiny and protected from water-based stains. Okay, wait a minute. This sentence actually

says, you literally are staring into virtually. Which fucking... Which is it? Hold on, I want to hear it again now that you said that. You literally are staring into virtually the. What is that? You're literally virtually.

You're literally virtually staring into the actual figurative energy. You're figuratively, literally, virtually? What are you talking about? You can't even work. It's awesome. Basically. It's like all the filler words in one thing.

That's decidedly great. Actually, the forces that are pushing the homosexual agenda forward are the hips of homosexuals and their agenda is to have sex with other homosexuals yeah yeah exactly that's the entire agenda like unless you're unless you're like hey wait a minute can we make this a threesome you're pretty much uninvolved in the homosexual agenda. This is all that bullshit, though, of like, we've got to demonize this other group because we just don't have any good arguments.

I just don't have any way to say live and let live. I don't have any way to say that what they're doing doesn't affect me. All I get to say is they're really evil. And if you go up against them and they use their things like fucking logic against you you'll suddenly see that you're staring at the unvarnished fucking penis of satan or whatever right right i love too that like they are vicious they are mean you see we're trying to be vicious and mean and they they don't like it. And they won't let us do it. Right.

It's like if you were like, well, I tried picking on that kid over there, and he beat me up. Do you believe that? He beat me up. Right. Man, I went over to steal that kid's lunch money, and he punched me right in the eye. The dick? Okay, nobody feels sorry for you, massive majority of people. You want answers?

I think I'm entitled to them. You want answers? I want the truth! You can't handle the truth! This story comes from the Raw story. I love this guy's face! I love Todd Starnes' big... Todd Starnes!

Todd Starnes' big toe-in-head. He's suffering from both Waldo hair, Waldo glasses, actually all three, Waldo glasses, Waldo hair, and shrinking face disease. It does look like his features are collapsing inward, like his head is like a black hole that's sucking his features in toward it nose is like pulling everything toward it maybe his face is just gonna end up as just a sphincter yeah it's just gonna pull it together i mean if you look at how his lips are like sort of pursed right now i think i think that they is kind of a sphincter i guess what i'm saying is i'd face fuck him i would not that That's horrifying. I'd slap him flaccid.

That's the best I could do. Man, that hair is aggressively straight and parted. But anyway, Fox radio host, Jesus would thank American sniper for sending godless Muslims to the lake of fire. And my first thought is it doesn't have to be would thank. Yeah. It can be can thank. Yeah. But doesn't thank.

Well, let's listen to him go off. This is Todd Starnes. It's on Fox News and it's like his fucking Fox Minute or something. I'm Todd Starnes with this American Dispatch. It was another jaw-dropping weekend for American Sniper. More than $200 million in ticket sales, routing the competition and driving liberals bonkers. The New York Times dismissed the massive crowds as southern and midwestern. Former DNC Chief Howard Dean called all you folks who saw the movie very angry men, tea party types.

And consider the latest Twitter tantrum from that tweeting twit Michael Moore, asking, what would Jesus do? Oh, I know what he'd do, hide on top of a roof and shoot people in the back. What would Jesus do if he could be a sniper and save soldiers' lives by shooting savages in the back? What would Jesus do if he could be a sniper and save soldiers' lives by shooting savages in the back? Well, I'm no theologian, but I suspect Jesus would tell that God-fearing, red-blooded American sniper, well done, thou good and faithful servant, for dispatching another godless jihadist to the lake of fire. But then again, I'm no theologian.

Wow! fire but then again i'm no theologian wow that's decidedly great i love that he's godless like how are you a godless jihadist it's not the same god but it's not godless yeah no i mean he's clearly got a god i mean yeah i mean he's probably more faithful than you are yeah Yeah, that's... You're a godless jihadist with your religious beliefs. Wait, what? To your god? To your god that shares the same Abrahamic tradition? Fuck!

Right, right. It's very confusing. There was a time when Hollywood and Democrats stood in solidarity with our fighting men and women, folks like Jimmy Stewart and Bob Hope

and John Wayne, American heroes. Those days are long gone. And our sweet land of liberty has been soiled by the stinking stench of Michael Moore and Howard Dean and their liberal minions. Oh, my God. What did he even say in that? Like a bunch of people saw a movie and people didn't like it. Like a bunch of people saw a movie and people didn't like it.

Yeah. And America used to be better back when everybody agreed that the military was good and thinking was bad. That was the good old days. It's totally a there's a good old days thing there. Yeah, man. What the fuck? Okay. Throwing out, I guess, all of the ideas. What the fuck?

Like, OK, throwing out, I guess, all of the ideas. I mean, I know that like we've in recent weeks we've been talking about different people saying that fucking Jesus would fucking lay the terrorists down and Jesus shoot people and call them godless or whatever. But I always thought that Jesus was a little more pacifistic than that. Yeah, I know. It turns out that if Jesus had had access to a.50 caliber sniper rifle, he definitely would have shot the godless rather than try to convince them. Would he have shot that table over

you think instead of flipping it? The only reason that this was really a technology issue the whole time. Yeah, you know. And it's a good thing it's a it's it's really it's a good thing that we not have a national dialogue or debate on the morality of certain actions and warfare um it's much better that we have a single-minded sort of view

that's how you're definitely going to yield the best society when everybody just agrees to get behind whatever the government's doing. It works in North Korea. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. You know, I think you're right about that with the technology thing, though. I think, you know, Jesus would have shot the fig, I think. Shot all those pigs. He shot all the figs off the tree.

Or there wouldn't have been. He just shot the shit out of the tree because there was no figs on the tree. Right, yeah. That's the story, right? He probably would have shot some fish and fed people with it. True. He would have shot that whale that swallowed somebody else the whale that swallowed jonah yeah okay yeah he just shot john the baptist on accident just that was an accidental discharge right that's what i tell

the one it's not his fault yeah um he just shot that fucker judas yeah well come on yeah you know 30 pieces of silver. And shoot that motherfucker. Shoot right through that bag of silver. Really? I mean, like, you shoot Pontius Pilate, right? Oh, yeah, fuck that dude up. You're like, yeah, you're going to be crucified.

Be like, fuck that. I got my nine. I'm just shooting him off. Could you imagine them trying to scourge him while he's just like, guh-guh-duh-guh-guh-guh-guh-guh-guh. He's kicking him in the chest rambo style and they're flying backwards you know what man i'll tell you what if that had happened i'd be a christian because at least there'd be some evidence that there was like some power manifest right if he was like yeah i got a weapon from you know 2 000 years in the future i'd be like wow that's fucking compelling i gotta

tell you that's super compelling as opposed got to tell you, that's super compelling. As opposed to the no action taken whatsoever. Yeah, and just getting crucified. Right, that was much less compelling as it turns out. I could do that. Yeah, and, you know, I mean, to be honest, somebody who's being crucified is a super easy shot for a sniper. I mean. So we want to thank Steve for joining us today and talking about the case that he's involved in right now.

Like we said before, we're going to post the link to to the change.org petition. So if you want to sign that, that's going to be on this episode. Show notes episode 204. We also would like uh if you would like you can uh also go to the skeptical podcast we'll have a link to both their podcast and to their facebook page uh on this episode show notes so uh if you want to go check out their podcast uh we want to thank steve again for coming on uh it was great of him to to stay up super late i mean two in the morning stayed up. I mean, two in the morning, he stayed up till like two,

two 30 in the morning or whatever to talk to us. So we want to thank him for doing that. It was very nice of him to do on such short notice. So we want to thank him. So that wraps it up for this short show this week. We are going to leave you as we always do with the skeptics. Creed credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter. Mommy issue, hypno-Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative, acupunctuating,

pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water downward spiral, brain dead pan, sales pitch, late night info-docutainment. brain dead pan sales pitch late night info docutainment leo pisces cancer cures detox reflex foot massage death and towers tarot cards psychic healing crystal balls bigfoot yeti aliens churches mosques and synagogues temples dragons giant worms atlantis dolphins truthers birthers witches wizards vaccine nuts shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, double-speak stigmata, nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands. Bloody, evidential, conclusive.

Doubt even this. The opinions and views expressed in this show are that of the hosts only. Our poorly formed and expressed notions do not represent those of our wives, employers, friends, families, or of the local Dairy Council. Thank you. you