Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 306.5: Concealed Carry Breakfast Club

Episode Date: July 21, 2016

No stories - just us talking.

Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. I don't even know how to start this. How do you start a show that's not a show? It's not really a show. You know how you start it? Like this? Like this, my friend. It's like awkwardly initiating sex and you're both kind of not into it.

You know, it's like, you know, like you sort of feel. Wait, hold on. You can be into it? Well, I've heard rumors, you know, but you're like, maybe this? Like maybe I'll twiddle that thing or fiddle around. I don't know. Like we both feel sort of obligated. That's this, right?

So the outer thigh is not an androgynous thing. I'll just like sort of rub at your shoulder area a bit. See if that is that working. Hold on. I need to watch a couple of videos just to see if I can get this to work. I just sort of. And not like sexy videos either. We're talking like instructional videos from YouTube from like a doctor on how to do this.

Like a Dr. Ruth. Oh, that lady that lady went ass to mouth come on you know like i gotta say dr ruth has fucking done stuff right like oh that's that's a woman who's fucking been there done that oh yeah yeah absolutely she's one of those ladies that that when she said like the what the way she talked about sex and the way she went about it was just so not clinical. You know what I mean? Like whatever that word is, whatever that anti-clinical is, like just fucking so just normal speak. She was so matter-of-fact.

She could have been talking about like, yeah, I mean you make an omelet by putting your dick in her butt. That's how you do it. Like wait wait that's and and she's got to be into it too you know sure she clenches then that's right well if not into it at least not aggressively not into it all right so there we go there we go there we go so we're we're this is you know what that was that was the foreplay of the show all right we are warmed up dr ruth approves we're all lubed and ready to go so uh we got a bunch of email tom we didn't and uh and a couple of facebook comments i want to read a couple of these um uh specifically from one idiot uh and i want to talk a little bit about because we got messages about the boomba

that's terrible dude and we got messages about sort of the police shootings that have been happening and things like that and it's something we want to talk about and I think we want to kind of not be distracted by other stuff at this point and it might be 10 minutes long it might be 30 minutes long

you and I have had at this point four or five conversations about this off the air. And so hopefully our conversations, we can pick and choose the best stuff from those conversations. Why would we pick and choose the best stuff and put it in this show? I don't even understand. You're fucking, again, you're making an omelet by sticking a dick in a butt. That's not how any of this is done. Chicken butt? So let's get started and talk about –

Sure. We just got – went through the concealed carry classes in Illinois. Right. What a fucking shit show. And we want to start there, right? What a fucking shit show. And we want to start there, right? I think we want to start there because that is – that leads to a lot of this other stuff, a lot of the other stuff that's going on.

So we are – we did these concealed carry classes together. We decided we wanted to do them together. And there is a really – in my opinion, one of the reasons why I did it was the deep curiosity to see what is it that the government looks at and says this is the highest level of bar that we can put out there for a civilian to have a firearm on them concealed at all times. Right. Not at all times because clearly there's many buildings and places and festivals and things. In Illinois, it's like you can't bring that gun fucking anywhere. It's actually unbelievably restrictive. It is. It's very restrictive, right? And in some ways for a good reason, I think.

Oh, yeah. I think it's great. Specifically for a very good reason. I would not want to go to a Lollapalooza, let's say. And know that fucking a bunch of drunk idiots are packing. A bunch of drunk people have a possibility they could have a firearm. But we did these classes and this was the highest level of rigor that Illinois looks at. And Illinois, one of the latest, the latest, last concealed carry state.

The latest. The latest. It was the last one. Last concealed carry state. They fucking held their ass clenched as tight as they could for years and years and years, held on to laws that they had to get overturned up on much higher levels of court to get the handgun ban repealed and things like that. So there's been a lot of pushback in Illinois specifically against against handguns concealed carry it's not been a thing right we are a very restrictive state absolutely by but but when i say that i mean that like only in comparison with other states yeah because and we'll get to this but sure i don't feel like this is a very restrictive yeah the restriction the most restrictive state and we

just went through it and it's just like that. That was it. That was it. And so let's start from the beginning. Okay. Play the scene out for me of the students, Tom, in this classroom. Okay. So the words lowest common denominator are the first words that leap to mind.

So there were, I don don't know nine or ten people in this class right so it was you and i and then and then a bunch of other folks in this class it was not a fucking packed house first of all yeah um but there was we'll go through them one by one like there was a dude there uh who the very first exercise we had we had to simulate taking a weapon from somebody that was handing it to us with the purpose of handing it to us. We're not talking about like – we were not simulating like a combat scenario with a series of complex moves. No, no, no. You'd have to train your – like you'd take a gun and then check and see if it was loaded.

You were essentially unloading the dishwasher. Right. Right? Yeah. Right? Yes. Not even that complicated because the dishwasher might have more than one kind of dishes and be like unloading the dishwasher the dishwasher has

one plate yeah and all of your cabinets are marked plates go here right it's that fucking simple it's that fucking simple and this motherfucker he goes to like get this plastic gun from the instructor and he's like doing every like it was actually astonishing to see one person perform that many wrong things in a row in a row then he gets all fucking panicky panicky the difference though is he got panicky but then i was watching him and i was nervous i was thinking to myself because what was going through i was nervous i was thinking to myself because what was going through my mind is i'm going to be at a shooting range with this man tomorrow right and i do not trust him with a firearm i didn't trust him with the plastic

firearm it was a it was a plastic gun that had a laser pointer essentially right as a laser pointer shaped like a gun right and like he was holding it i was just kind of like he was pointing it in every direction yeah like swinging it wildly around somebody sam i thought he was holding it and i was just kind of like he was pointing it in every direction yeah like swinging it wildly around yosemite sam i thought he was gonna like like fucking like be like pew pew pew pew pew and shoot himself off the ground with it he was sweating at one point and all he had to do i just want to tell everybody all he had to do was take the gun from the instructor in a safe way and then check and see if it was loaded. Mimic to see that it was loaded and then hand the instructor back the firearm. Right.

And he was like – he started panicking and sweating. And I'm like, why do you want this? Why do you want this? Yeah. You seem – you're terrified of a toy. And he's like – at one point he starts yelling, it's a toy. It's just a toy. It's just a toy.

And the instructor was like, whoa, calm down. Like we're in this classroom. We're going to behave as if these guns are real guns for the purposes of simulation. So it's not a toy for this simulation. He's just like, I don't want to do it anymore. I thought he was going to fucking try to put it to his temple and fucking kill himself. Shoot himself with a very low powered laser. Get out of the situation.

He has to spend there for, he has to sit there until he dies for it to actually kill him. Can you imagine that there is going to be a date? First of all, with that guy where he is walking around with a gun on his hip. If there is ever a scenario where he has to use it. Yeah. walking around with a gun on his hip if there is ever a scenario where he has to use it yeah he will pull that gun out and shoot literally every object other than the assailant like if there was somebody who's like i'm gonna murder you he'd be like hang on i'm gonna fucking go crazy fucking shooting gallery style shoot fucking like he's like shoot the wash tub it'll be like a fucking

old grandpa that pops out i want to i want to mention though in the class we were supposed to practice uh trigger discipline in the class right throughout the entire class whenever we held the gun up we had to hold our finger above the trigger on the frame of the pistol so we had to do this throughout the entire class. Every time we had the gun in our hand, the gun should be pointed down. Your hand should be above the trigger on the frame. When we held the gun up to start to shoot,

we had to have our hand above the trigger on the frame. Then we were allowed to put, basically it's just good trigger discipline, right? The guy four times in the class yesterday had to get told by the instructor get your finger off the trigger he's going to shoot himself when he was mimicking to me today outside in the fucking area where there were no guns he specifically mimicked with his finger on the trigger there's not even a trigger there's not even a gun in his hand he's just like what about my pew pew pew this guy was the most dangerous human being yeah no absolutely like you you would be you would be safer giving a

classroom full of toddlers live hand this that this was the first person then the next person down uh you know the next couple people down as we worked our way across the room right uh they all like one of them didn't have any experience one of them was a prepper that crazy that was crazy it was crazy he he scored guns mcgee he scored on his test today all nines every single shot was a nine at every different position except for one that was an eight yeah he he he was terrifying yeah he kept asking questions like like the rule in illinois is like you get one gun yeah you get a gun you get a gun you don't need to carry fucking you don't need to bristle with guns at all times you don't need guns strapped to your guns to make them bigger fucking fancier guns yeah

and he was just like so what about if i had a gun on me and then another gun just out of arm's reach but i could like lean over quick and get it and like what if one of the guns was like nestled gently in a bazooka's vagina like and you had to massage it slowly in order to have the gun emerge that guy wanted fucking every gun i'm gonna say the exact question he said so he said how many bullets can i carry and then instructor said well i don't think there's any rule he's like i'm thinking about carrying three clips 40 bullets does that seem you know and then he was like is that okay is that okay and the instructor was like i yeah i guess you know like But what do you need that many for? And this is a guy I think that is expecting that when he has to use his concealed carry firearm, he's going to be in a prolonged shootout with masked assailants.

He has a wet dream fantasy. At least that's what it seemed like, right? But look, man, that's the thing is that a lot of these guys I think have a wet dream fantasy where they get the firearm and they want to use it. They're hoping someday that they get to use that gun. I fucking hope that thing fucking disintegrates from dust and disuse. Never use it. Other than range time, right? I hope that gun never fucking leaves my side one time except for to fucking take it off and put it back in my safe, fucking disconnected with fucking tubes and rods and chains and locks all over it. Exactly.

That's what I hope. Yeah. But those guys, they're just like, well, what if I need more than 40 bullets? When do you ever need more than 40 bullets? What are you? You're not the police. You're not sieging a place. Right. What do you need 40 bullets for anyway? you're not the police you're not sieging a place right what do

you need 40 bullets for anyway you fucking going to fallujah like what the fuck like if you need more than 40 bullets you need a fucking battering ram and a catapult like so another another couple people in the class uh were that guy was now of the people in the class with a gun i still don't trust that guy. Because his level of proficiency, fine. He was very proficient with the weapon. That's fine. But he had like – that dude is fucking bloodlusty.

Yeah, and the question you're saying, can I have a gun in my car? He specifically asked – we're making jokes about it, but he said, can I have a gun that I carry and keep in my car for protection and also have on my person my concealed carry gun? And then when I leave the car, I would have the concealed carry gun with me and leave my protection gun, my specific, I guess, car-specific gun in the car. I don't know what it is. What is that? And the instructor had to go out of his way to tell him, no, you can't do that. You can't have more than a gun on you at the same time. You can't walk in and two gun it.

You can't two gun it fucking, you know, fucking Sam Elliott. Right. You can't do it. And so there's that guy again, another guy, you know, the thing is, is at the end of the day, I looked at everybody in the class, including me, and I thought, I don't trust anybody in here with a gun. Right. There's a couple guys in there that were overzealous three guys in there that i think were pretty overzealous two guys in there that were flat fucking clueless yep another guy in there that was uh that was i

don't even like you said i don't even think you came i think you came to the wrong class i'm not sure if he understood his his english skills were at a fucking bare minimum. I'm not sure he was in the right place. I think he just was too shy to leave. Yeah, and then there was another guy who was – it felt like he was constantly playing with the laser pointer. The Asian kid in front of us would not put his fucking fake gun down. He had it taken away. He had it taken away from him in the class. This is the class we took. This is the breakfast club of fucking concealed carry this is a random

sample of illinois concealed carry in chicago right in a place where you know a lot of people across the country seem to point to and say this is a place that needs more concealed carry right we just took it with a bunch of people that i am actually actively afraid they're going to have guns yes they none of them they all should have failed something like the instructor should have just been like oh not you and then then let's talk about the hours right yeah so it's supposed to be 16 hours of training like eight hours of classroom and then eight hours of qualifying on the range. That's what the government asked them to do.

Right. And the eight hours of qualifying is the NRA's gun safety fucking hoedown that they do or whatever. And then there's some concealed carry stuff but very little. Yeah, right. Basically like some basic stuff about the state laws. and then we're supposed to have range time the second day right and then a qualifying test now the test is that after you take the written test there is which we'll talk about the written test in the future i'm just telling them what the what the thing is for this particular class now I don't know what the actual restrictions are for Illinois, but 16 hours is required to get your concealed carry.

You can get a waived out of it if you are military. You can get waived out of part of it. I think some of those people that are like active duty something or another can get waived out of part of it. But if you're just a civilian like us and don't have any other experience, it's 16 hours, and then you have to take a shooting test, and our particular one required a written test. So the shooting test is the max. It's 10 rounds at three different locations. The farthest away from you is 30 feet. The closest from you is essentially – Like you could spit at it.

Yeah, like if you missed at the closest one, they should shoot you. They shouldn't shoot you. No. If you missed the closest one, you shot yourself. So actually nobody has to do it. That's actually true. Because if you miss that, the target is so close. It is so close for the first one.

The only way to miss it would be to reverse the gun into your own chest. And the guys who were running this were not watching me shoot. No. So if I could have put a bunch of holes in the center, made it, punched it out at the beginning, and then just missed all the actual outer. And just come like, I'm done. I could have just shot it off into the distance. Yeah. And been like, yeah, I got it all through all the holes in the center.

That's, yeah, that little punched out area is where I shot them all through. That's where I did it. Right. Because they didn't pay attention. They didn't even look at me. They can't even count. Yeah. You know, they didn't even look at they can't even count yeah you know they didn't even they didn't even look they just you wheel your targety thing back in and you're like yeah i fucking killed that plastic man or that paper man fucking super man that i could take 30 minutes shooting this

test because there's no time limit right right that's it yeah so that was the rigorous shooting test which i thought was going to be a lot worse and was not bad at all it turns out that was actually very easy the take-home test that you had to take from this take home it was a take-home it was a take-home test literally a take-home test um i don't i'm not sure again if this is a test that the illinois requires or not they did ask for it right so i don't know but the take-home test was it was as easy as the david ike quizzes we give every week it was it was as easy there was there Ike quizzes we give every week. It was as easy. There was three really, really, really, really not fucking true answers for most of them.

Right. And one that you're like, yeah, that has to be it. Or like something that's all the above. And it's like if it's not all – it's so blatantly all of the above. If there was any all of the above, that's what it was for every question. Because any, all of the above, that's what it was for every question. And then if the standard – it's a 50-question test that took fucking like seven minutes to fucking fill out and it was like nothing. And if you got that – and we don't know what the pass-fail standard of that was.

But the pass-fail standard on the fucking shooting test was 70 percent. So let's assume it was fucking 70 percent. Dude, I fucking – you could get 15 wrong yeah on that you got 15 wrong you if you got you can't read if you got 15 wrong you just skipped the whole class that he taught earlier in the day right and you've never touched a firearm or thought about what firearms could do to other people if you got 15 wrong you would fucking it could be fucking wheel of fortune and it could be the fucking the word is gun and it could have fucking g u and vanna's turning it over so you can see the end a little bit and you'd be like uh gut is it gus gum golly guy oh no that's not it sorry jesus fucking christ that shit was fucking yeah it fucking easy. It is fail at life easy.

So we did this thing that is lowest common denominator in every single – Oh my. Yes. And we learned a little – I did learn a little bit. I have to admit that in this class, I learned a little bit. I learned about – When he finally got around to instructing us. Yeah.

It was clearing. I'm not going to talk about any of the other stuff that takes forever or whatever, blah, blah, blah, paperwork bullshit. But we were talking about 16-hour rigor, 16 hours worth of tests. We spent five hours in the classroom yesterday that was not filling out paperwork and 25 minutes on the range today. Tops. Tops, dude. So six total hours, think on this and it's 18 hours required by law yeah and we spent six hours doing this yeah and it was it was seriously like

when i say lowest common denominator like if you apply all you have to do is give them a lot of money yeah it's it's just like it's just it's just cost prohibitive that's all it is and it is expensive as fuck yeah like because we showed up and it's like yeah okay here's my money this is like you need to keep giving me yeah subsequent sums there's there's money there's biometric print scans there's there's a background check there's you know there's all this extra stuff there There's the permit itself. There's the permit itself. The class that we paid for costs a quarter.

A couple million dollars. A million dollars. Everything was extra. Everything cost something. It's cost prohibitive. The gate is cost prohibitive. It's a lot of money. money spend a lot of money doing it

the rigor i just don't think is there and and and yes this is anecdotal guys this is fucking this is maybe your last experience was anecdotal um i can't stress that enough but this is it doesn't matter if it's anecdotal or not because my license is the exact same license as yours. Dude, a goldfish could have gotten that license. If a goldfish had about $900, a fucking goldfish could have gotten that license. It could have shot that test with flipper hands, and it would have been fine. One of the guys in the class never shot a gun in his life and qualified today. Right. and is going to be allowed to take a gun and put it on his fucking hip and tuck his shirt over it and just walk around as a dude in the street that you meet.

Like this guy couldn't fucking rub two brain cells together. He was a stupid person. He was scared and stupid. That is exactly it. He was scared and stupid. And you do this because you're scared. You have to look around the room at all the other people and be like, yeah, we're all afraid. We're all afraid.

Everybody in this room is afraid. This is a fear-driven thing. Nobody in this room is here because they're super-duper brave. Everybody in this room is here to get a gun to hold on with them at some point because they're afraid. Right. Well, I remember when you and I had a conversation initially about whether we were going to do this. is here to get a gun to hold on with them at some point because they're afraid right well i remember i remember when you and i had a conversation initially about whether we were going to do this you know and i and i was like absolutely not like you know i remember i remember saying in a different conversation with a friend of mine like this is a concession to fear i won't live a life

with concessions to fear guns make me like handguns as a means of personal protection piss me off because they make little men feel big. Yeah. And I don't like that. And I don't – I will not be a little man who feels big because he fucking carries a pistol in his hand. I agree with you. I still did it. Yeah.

Because there were other considerations as part of that conversation that outweighed my revulsion at having to do this. Sure. But yeah, this is fear-driven, right? sure um but yeah this is fear driven right we and and i i know that we i know that we've talked about this in the past but you know the more this becomes a norm because this is new in illinois yeah this is relatively new in illinois but the more this becomes a norm you know like the more fucking fucking yokel the more fucking cletus the slack-jawed yokel gets a fucking gun and you're just gonna fucking walk around and that fucking instructor was telling us, and I don't know how true this is, that the likelihood is as this law continues forward that it will be revised to make it less restrictive in terms of the places you can carry a firearm in Illinois. And I do think that's probably the case.

I think that – As he said, when he wrote his slides up, you could not carry him on public transportation, and now you can. So as time goes on, that will just be – those restrictions will come out. Pretty soon, Harold Washington Library will have to scrape the sticker off. I don't know if that's the case. I'm not saying – I don't know where they – I don't know what the other states have. But there's – I mean pretty much every single government building, every place where they serve alcohol, every place where there's a festival, every place where there's kids around, every place – I mean all places that I'm like kind of like, yep, all right, public building. Yep, sounds good.

Yep, it's a – government owns it. Nope, that's not a good place to have guns. You know, like there's all these places and I'm like, yeah, I kind of agree with all those places. That's great. Let's presume that there will be no guns there. I kind of wish they would just expand that to America. Yeah. You know, like, okay. But if they're know like okay but if they're not going to if they're not going to then fucking

that yokel motherfucker yep is gonna walk around do that guy will fucking drop that gun fucking juggle it fucking throw it at somebody another thing that we got a chance to see was things that they showed us as videos yesterday so we got a chance to see several videos. And in this video, you have a guy who's standing in front of a fucking target, this fat fucking yokel. He's standing in front of a target, and he's giving this fucking talk about how he's not putting this video up there

so that he could fucking get sympathy or something, I'm thinking. And both Tom and I were like, we have no sympathy for you. I couldn't fucking import sympathy. Nothing I could do to get it. And I will say, he pulls his gun out of his holster. He's practicing with a loaded weapon in his holster, which I suspect you would have to do.

We didn't really learn about this at all in class. So I have no idea like how to pull properly or anything. We didn't learn anything. We just essentially learned how to make sure a gun wouldn't hurt you if you were cleaning it and things like that. a gun you know wouldn't hurt you if you were cleaning it and things like that and so here we are in this in this in this class watching this video and this guy pulls this gun out while he's standing in front of it and he fucking shoots his fucking leg he fucking slides the safety off as he's pulling up the fucking his hand pulls on the trigger and whap fucking shoots himself right in the leg looks at the camera he's like fuck it's the funniest thing i've seen i've never laughed

so hard at a guy shooting himself and he walks off and he fucking blows his own leg off and that's you know shoots himself in the fucking leg there's a bullet hole the entry and exit wound we saw another guy cleaning a fucking gun oh okay he's just sitting there he's got himself his gun out and he's talking and he's like yeah i need to move this slide you just gotta and he fucking pulls the trigger and the gun goes off and then he's just sitting there and he's got his finger on the trigger and the gun goes off and then he's just sitting there and he's got his finger on the trigger and the gun goes off and it and his hand kind of slowly goes down and at 20 seconds nothing happens and finally in the class i just scream out like is he dead what the fuck happened and then because all you can see in this video is just a picture of his hand and then a second later he drops the gun and kind of walks away but he shot his table he was cleaning his gun

right well there were there were two more well there was this fucking kid who's got this shotgun and he's fucking trying to give a review i think i think what he was trying to do was a youtube review of an ithaca shotgun he had just purchased yeah and the guy couldn't get a fact right oh no like he was like he's talking about trench warfare in world war ii he's like yeah this gun was invented in the war i don't know which one, the trench one. You can stick it in the mud and ram it up a Jap's ass or something. He was horrible. Everything he said was horrible and just wrong.

And he's moving his gun around with his finger constantly on the trigger and pointing at everything. And then he's like, here's how you load it. He loads the gun and he racks the shell and he's like fucking shoots his ceiling yeah he's like oh and then he shuts the video off and then another has got his shotgun and he's shooting water bottles on the ground he's not he's not because he misses it okay so he misses water bottles that are 10 feet away from him with a shotgun. I have no idea how you do this. Misses water bottles, and then he has what they call a hanging fire round where you shoot the gun, the primer goes off, and then nothing happens, right?

So then you're waiting for the gun to actually go off, but you don't know. You think maybe it's a bad load. So he immediately takes the gun and points it at his own face to look inside the barrel. What the fuck are you doing? I don't even know what your endgame is. I don't even know what the...

What is the fucking point of that? You can't see down the barrel. I don't know what your endgame is. And it shoots his fucking hat right off his head. It shoots his hat. He got so lucky. And I hope it cut half his forehead off, but I don't know.

It just – it shot his fucking – it shot his hat right off his own head. Oh, God. It's the funniest fucking video. I'm sorry, but that video, I laughed so hard when he – he like – he turns that gun in his own face and he's like, I'm going to watch, man. And our instructor, by the way, he shows that gun in his own face. And he's like, I'm going to watch, man. And our instructor, by the way, he shows us all these videos.

And this guy couldn't find a fuck in a forest of fucks to give. Because he's not like, oh, it's going to be graphic. Or you're about to see someone die. Or like, whatever. He's just like, click, click. And you're like, you're watching. And you're like, this guy's going to shoot his face. He's going to shoot himself right in his own face.

He doesn't. He lives through it. He lives. He's okay. But several videos we watched. People died. People died. Yeah. He showed one where two police officers were not only shot, but a guy walked up to him

right to their face and shot him while they were on the ground. It's terrible. And you're just like, this is wow. Why would you show me this? One, I'm not a police officer i'm never going to use this stuff none of that stuff i was ever going to use i don't know what the purpose of that video even i don't i just don't get it scary right like because the instructors like see how he you know allowed too much distance between himself and the suspect i'm like i'm not

arresting people i don't have this gun because i want to run around be like see the scenes of race see the scenes of race I'm not doing that shit. I'm like a fucking – like if I have that fucking gun on my hip and somebody is looting the fucking jewelry store, I'm running away. Exactly. I'm running as fast as I can. I'm going to be like – if they looked at me and be like, you're not running anywhere, I'd be like, okay, can I help you to your car? I know, right? Is there anything I can – can I shine your fucking shoes, man?

Whatever you need. I don't care. Like it's just ridiculous. This guy is like, yeah. And they showed a video of this active shooter situation that I was super uncomfortable with the whole time. Oh, yeah. Well, like a shooter comes in to your office building. And like all they need, like the video did not have to have the graphic depictions of fucking somebody slaughtering dude, like helpless in their office or the music the soundtrack right came with it the swelling of the music when they attack

the attacker i'm just like no yeah no they're what they should play is the fucking scene from saving private ryan when you attack the attacker exactly yeah that scene the end one where they're all dead right yeah like arlington cemetery jesus christ i couldn't i mean but it's like it's like it encourages vigilante but i really feel like i really feel like there's a lot of these guys and he used a lot of the language the same language bad guys bad guys he kept talking about bad guys bad guys bad guys and and you know like like look i know when i'm in a situation if i'm ever in a situation where that gun has to come out, I'm not thinking of good and bad. All I'm thinking about is my life and trying to get away from the situation with it intact.

That's all I'm thinking about. I'm not thinking about, you know, there's no moral fucking dilemma that that's a good or a bad guy. I don't have to fucking pretend that this is a bad guy or a good guy. or a bad guy. I don't have to fucking pretend that this is a bad guy or a good guy. All I have to worry about is this fucking person going to give me grievous bodily harm or death.

And I can't get away. And I can't get away. Because my first thing is like, I got to leave. I'm going to go away. I don't want to die or get grievously bodily injured. Those are things I don't look forward to. I don't want to kill someone. There's no way where I fucking kill somebody and then i wake up the next day and feel good about myself

sure like even if they fucking had it coming even if they had a fucking shirt that i put a hole in that said i'm shooting tom today i fucking if i kill somebody that's gonna be like i'm gonna be like i'll just go to therapy now yeah because i'm gonna fucking feel real not good is there any way i could put a tent in your lobby because i'm probably gonna stay here for a bit you know honestly like i'm not a guy who wants to fucking kill people think about that even if it's okay for me to do even if i can get intellectually behind the act of the necessity of of doing it like i have no interest or desire to kill somebody to be responsible for somebody else's demise. That concept gives me nothing but fucking revulsion.

But they're fucking – they're like answering questions in class like, well, can you kill him like just a little bit? Like can we kill him and drag the body back into the house? The guy said that as a – maybe as a joke. Is it maybe as a joke? But again, like what I worry about is that the presence of a gun on somebody's hip gives people like some kind of like quasi-police authority or they think it does. Or like I said, like it makes little men feel big, right? So it's like, oh, I can fucking intervene. Well, maybe you could run away.

Like that's – let's de-escalate, de-escalate. Always fucking de-escalate. So while we talk about that and we finish that, what comes into our feed a lot today, specifically on the way back from this place, we found out that there was a shooting in Baton Rouge this morning of police officers. The Dallas police officers were shot. And specifically, I want to read a couple of comments that we got on our Facebook wall. And then I also want to talk about some of the emails that we got specifically from police officers. We received emails from police officers and people supporting the police officers that were – that sounded like a couple of them said they were frustrated. And so we want to address those, but we definitely want to talk about what was on our Facebook wall really quickly. So a person posted on our wall and said that you guys are poisoning the well when you compare

the Dallas shootings to the Boston bombings or Aurora shootings. Micah Johnson was only targeting police officers, whereas the other attacks were indiscriminate. Talking about how the threat was to the general public is misleading because he wasn't targeting the general public. The thing is wasn't targeting the general public. The thing is, is that in that shooting, two civilians were injured, right? So the shooting, I'm looking at Wikipedia here. Five officers were killed, nine others, and two civilians were injured. Well, I don't think that's poisoning the well to talk about.

I don't understand how it's poisoning the well, I guess. So this guy is aiming just for the police. Are we supposed to assume, oh, he's just aiming for the police. There's no threat to the general public? Why would I assume that? Because clearly he's hit other people. He could miss and hit. Even if he was – even if his full intention was only to shoot at the police, which is a fucking despicable thing to do.

Let me get that right out there. Throw that out there. Let me just make sure so that I cannot possibly be misunderstood. That is 100% fucking extravagantly not okay. So that's just so that's sad. Yeah, yeah. But even if that were somehow changed the considerations of the event, and I don't think that it does,

but even if that did change the considerations of the event, the general public is safe when a sniper from an elevated position chooses targets that aren't me yeah when is that a good idea yeah when is that good i don't understand maybe i'm misunderstanding the no poisoning well no because i think he's an idiot so let me read his second his second statement because the person is an idiot and i just want to i just want to read his second bit he said and by the way all cops are bastards five less pigs out there perpetuating class oppression one was a white supremacist and the other four complicit to working with one what are the odds you throw five rocks at random cops and one happens to be a white supremacist how many more racists are there on

the police force and i want to read another thing that he wrote in a second, but let's go through line by line. Five less pigs out there perpetuating class oppression. When you sign up to be a police officer, you don't have to check a box that says, I want to fucking perpetuate class oppression. You fucking retard. Okay. That's not something that they do.

Okay. The idea that you think that, that you think that that you that you think that they somehow go out every day thinking they're going to perpetuate class oppression is putting a motivation on them and giving you justification to kill them right that's a fucking stupid thing to say and then uh when you say uh what's the chances of you throwing a rock and hitting a white supremacist five five rocks and hitting a white supremacist in Texas? I don't know. Pretty good, I guess. Fucking, I don't know, man.

Fair to Midland, buddy. Yeah. You know, when you say how many more racists are there on the police force, I don't know. Give me some stats. I don't know. I don't know. I will say that there are some times that I see a shooting, like the one in Chicago. Let's talk about the one in Chicago. That kid who's walking

away. He's just fucking walking down the street and the guy gets out of his car and he just fucking shoots a million bullets into him. And then he falls down and he shoots a million more bullets. He's fucking dead already. And they shot him more times than you would need to shoot like fucking like, you know, I don't even know, like a fucking charging

rhinoceros. And they shot him more times. And they just fucking kept shooting him. He's on the ground. Oh, fucking, I thought I saw him twitch. That is fucking awful, awful thing to do. Do I think that that one leads to racism? Maybe that one links to racism, right?

But I think that there's a lot of poor fucking training out there. We talked about this last time. The amount of killings in the United States that happen are probably mostly because of firearms. They're mostly, in my opinion, probably because they don't know that they have a gun. In Canada, they don't do this sort of thing. They don't carry guns around with them the same way. So there's probably not a chance

they have a gun. Look at the other killings in the other countries we talked about. Those places don't have guns readily available to the public. So when a fucking Italian police officer pulls me up and goes hey forget about it he's fucking he doesn't think his life is in danger yeah not in the same way as not in the same way everybody can have a gun every person can have a gun i want to speak to that real quick because i want to tie it back to our previous conversation about the concealed carry class one of the things that was of most concern to me

in that class, and this is being taught by a former police officer, was how to behave with a gun on your hip if you get stopped by a cop. Because it changes the whole equation. It changes the entire equation. And all of a sudden,

I'm scared, and he's scared, and everybody's scared. You take a fucking routine traffic stop and you take it from a one to at least a three or a four because somebody has a gun on their on their on their hip or on their person. And that cop walking up to my door or my window of my car or seeing me on the street or what or engaging me in any way throughout the course of his day. He cannot reasonably assume I'm unarmed. And that is problematic. And that requires tremendous training. And I think that what happens more – look, I don't know the exact reason why people are killing other people, why cops are killing civilians, why that's happening. why that's happening.

But I will say that what the data points to when you look at that particular line of data, that fucking, that amount of people in comparison to other countries, what's that factor that's between us and them? And it's the guns, man. It's the chance to have guns. Now, is it training? Possibly.

There's a good chance it could be training. The officer, the ex-officer that was teaching our class yesterday said most of these things are training problems. And one of the major things – and I have no idea if this is true. This is just what he said. But he said the first thing that gets cut in any place when they need to cut budgets is they cut the training out. And so these people, they go to the range and they shoot a few things to qualify. The cops shoot to qualify, but they're not talking about anything else they're not talking about any other anything else that you know that goes into police work or you know

stopping somebody the suspects all that you know all the stuff that right you know that you need to know as a police officer so you know i think that there's it's a really complex issue do i think it's a fucking it's the capitalist oligarchy that's doing this you're a fucking idiot dude you know there was a time i was going to be a cop there was a time where i considered it when i was between i was never between jobs but i my jobs were meaningless and i hated them and i was like you know i want to do something that makes a difference every day like i want to do something that feels like something and i considered being a cop yeah and you know that's the other thing too fuck this fucking guy who's fucking writing this garbage out there pigs are dead you know how many people get into law enforcement because they

fucking want to help other human beings that's a real consideration degenerate yeah what the fuck is wrong with you you know i mean like five pigs are dead get never listen to our show uninstall from your pod go listen to somebody else but you know there's so many people on you and i hear it with fucking doctors too and they're like oh the doctors are just out for money like fucking there's so many people who get in the fucking medical profession specifically because they're good people want to help out somebody else i know there's cops out there that do the same thing now do i think that there's cops out there that want to fucking break a couple heads and want to have some fucking a there are yeah absolutely don't pay with that brush. But yeah, when you say,

are all cops out there to break a couple fucking heads? I don't think that's the case. I think you're stupid when you say that's the case. I know there's a lot of good people out there that become police officers. I don't have badge envy. I don't have fucking police blowjob syndrome here where I'm treating them like the military.

Yeah, it's a job that has to get done. It's a job they signed up for, whatever. not gonna i'm not gonna right you know say that all cops are heroes i'm not saying that but but i i just want to say like fucking to paint them with the other side of that broad brush is stupid as fuck now let's talk about some of this some of the emails we got we had a moral quandary right with the boomba okay we did both of us we did i still both of us sat back and said i don't know yeah i don't know how i feel about that like that's a that's my position on this yeah i don't know yeah and i i still feel like i don't know either um i feel like i'm a little farther toward the boomba than you are.

I feel like I'm – I think we are. We talked this morning. I'm willing to let the boomba go a little farther than you are. Yes, yes. And I think the reason I'm willing to do that is because I don't want to think that – we talked about slippery slope, right? And one of the things that you're worried about and that I am less worried about is, is this going to be a precedent now? Is this going to be a thing where – what if fucking the chief of police has tickets to the opera and wants to get there a little faster?

It doesn't want – he wants this thing to get over quicker. Whatever it is. They don't want to – they just want to make sure it gets over faster and they have an opportunity to use this way of – and I don't want to call it detaining somebody – a way of diffusing a situation. And they're able to do it. They're able to do it by sending plastic explosive in and exploding a person. I think in this particular case, I don't know that there's anything else. We had people saying, why don't they put gas or something in there? I don't know that there's anything else. And we had people saying, you know, why don't they put like gas or something in there? And, you know, I don't know that that's a thing.

This guy said he was going to blow some shit up and, you know, that sort of thing. So I don't know. You know, I mean, I don't know what the what the what the. Yeah, I don't protocol is, you know. Right. And I'm not I don't want a Monday morning quarterback and I want to come off this way either. a monday morning quarterback and i don't want to come off this way either i don't want to be the monday morning quarterback of a situation that volatile that i'm not involved in that my life isn't on the line for but as a person who doesn't have to make the decisions in the moment i have an

opportunity to try to be objective about how comfortable i am with this kind of thing happening so the dallas event to me is sort of like okay I put that off in this corner and it lives in a box. But how comfortable am I with this as a concept? How comfortable am I with this as a concept that the police now have? Would I be comfortable with the police having custom-built suspect-killing robots? Yeah. And I don't feel very comfortable with that concept. killing robots yeah and i don't feel very comfortable with that concept um it's you know do i want them flying around in with predator drones yeah you know i don't i don't want that i

do you want them to have a police bulldozer that just bulldozes houses over you even said that earlier yeah and that's not even that's not a robot that's just a device that even a person can be in and your example like well okay so you got you know a drug. That's just a device that even a person can be in. In your example, like, well, okay, so you got a drug dealer who's killed six people, we think. Yeah. Right? We don't know because he hasn't been tried. Yeah.

Right? But we think – the police totally think it's him and he's in the house and we're pretty sure he's there by himself. So why not just set it on fire? Yeah. I mean, why not? I mean, and I ask that not rhetorically. Why not just set that house on fire if you feel like you really know, right? But the problem that I have is that the police are not – their job is not to say that's a bad guy. We're going to kill him.

That's not your actual job. Your job is different than that. And I don't know how comfortable I am with having a level of murder-related – not murder but killing-related technologies that are so divorced from the person so that people don't have to put themselves in it. If I have to put myself in danger in order to accomplish killing somebody, maybe that gives me pause in how I engage a situation. But if I never have to find myself in danger and I can kill that guy, I get to be the one without the benefit of a judge and a jury of deciding that guy deserves to die and it costs me literally nothing to do it. And that makes me very uncomfortable you said something this morning that i think really does define the whole thing for me you said you know we talked about this yesterday in the class you're not allowed to use your your

firearm unless you're in you're in great bodily danger unless you're in danger of losing your life or great bodily harm unless it's imminent it's imminent danger it's worded very specifically imminent danger uh to your person in a in a very big way not in a fucking small way when they say like great bodily harm they don't mean you know somebody cholesterol somebody's got a bb gun you know what i mean like they mean specifically imminent danger and death. Those are the two major things, right? When that happens, you're allowed to act with deadly force. And it's not deadly force.

He even told us it's stopping the threat. You're there to stop the threat. And so the thing that I think you said this morning that really resonates is there's a level of premeditation to what the what the officers are doing in this particular case they are premeditating to go in and and stop this particular thing it's not that they're in danger now because everybody's out of the line of sight etc they are in a mild level of danger not the oh fuck i think i just soiled my pants because i'm about ready to get shot level of danger right right it's a moderate level of danger because the guy's threatening bombs the guy's threatening to shoot other people etc but he's not at this point you know everybody that can get shot i think is

probably in the cover or out of the way you know what i mean like there's not going to be a shooting right now because you're clearly talking to him so there's there was some talking back and forth in order for that to be danger like what we we talked about earlier, danger like you're in a jewelry store trying to stop a shooting and a guy pulls a gun on you and then you pull your gun and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and there's a shooting, right? It's not like that. It's sitting back like you said and saying, I can send this in and kill this guy. And you feel uneasy with it. I do. And I recognize that. I don't know that I feel uneasy with this particular instance because I realize that somebody saying that they have bombs all over the place when they've already proven that they can kill five people pretty easily and they probably have military training.

You don't know that, I guess, at the time, but you know it after the fact. It's one of those things that I'm like, man, that guy's dead and i don't care but here i don't care as as kind of a quasi business person my very second thought was someone is going to custom make police suspect killing robots sure because what they did is they use an improvised robot right they used uh they used a bomb what they use is the kind of robot that the bomb squad uses to defuse bombs in a safe way. They don't defuse. They fucking blow up what they think is a bomb with a smaller bomb, right? Yeah.

So that's what they used, and they just improvised on it. And my very first thought was, man, if I was a technologies company, I would see this and say, here's an opportunity for me to begin selling and marketing suspect-killing robots. Well, I'm super fucking uncomfortable. Like that's not a pipe because it's fucking – it's like my second thought. Yeah. If I'm the manufacturer of the bomb disposal robot, I'd be like, wow, guys, this is a market opportunity. Let's build a better robot. It's a mousetraps issue.

So yeah, I'm uncomfortable with these technologies. They're so military in nature. Now, I'm not uncomfortable with the military having these. I'm very comfortable with the military having drones. I think that's fine. With the military having fucking seek and destroy type robots, I think that's totally fine. It's the military. Your actual seek and destroy type robots i think that's totally fine it's the military your actual job is killing people the police's actual job is not killing people that's not your job that is an unfortunate byproduct of keeping the civilian population safe yeah

i am very uncomfortable when the level of technology to use to kill our own citizens ratchets up to that level. It just gives me so much pause. It makes me uneasy. I think you've explained your position well enough, right? I think we've – I mean I still am a little bit farther in. I'm like – I feel like – I still feel uncomfortable about the house thing. And we did get a message about Waco, by the way.

Yeah. Someone else sent a message about Waco. Whoop-de-doodle. So there's some things that I'm a little uncomfortable with. I do want to reach out to all the police officers that we talked about this particular thing. I don't want those people to die. No. And I don't want to trade one of their lives for this guy's life. No. And I don't want to trade one of their lives for this guy's life.

No. I think this guy, say what you will about whatever, this guy's a terrorist. This guy's a person who I wouldn't want to trade one of their lives for. Now, would I be happier if they could catch him and try him? Yes, I would be much happier if that was the case. I would be much happier if that man sat trial. I would be much happier if that man sat trial. I would be much happier if that man had a jury of his peers. I would be much happier if he spent the rest of his life in jail.

That would make me more happy. But in this situation, I'm not willing to trade one of their lives for his. I'm not willing to do that. All right. Well, that's going to wrap it up, right? I guess so. I think we're done yelling about stuff. We're done yelling for a little while. So take this as will it's just i don't know what this is it's a

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