Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 361: Recovering from Religion

Episode Date: May 29, 2017

Thanks to Gayle and Darrel from Recovering From Religion for coming on the show. You can find their work here:  Stories covered in episode:  *     

This episode of Cognitive Dissonance is brought to you by our patrons. You fucking rock. Glory hole, guys. Hey, listen, I was just listening to episode 360 and hearing them whining about how Disney, a liberal company, canceled a Christian show or a show from a Christian actor. Christian show or a show from a Christian actor and it just occurred to me that they're not

whining that Fox, a very conservative company, is renewing a show where Satan is the good guy. Anyway, I'm going to finish this. Sorry all guys. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended.

The explicit tag is there for a reason. recording live from glory hole studios in Chicago, this is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical, it's political. And there is no welcome at this is episode 362. Let's go with that. Let's just do that. Of cognitive dissonance. I don't actually know if that's accurate. I don't know if it's accurate either.

This is an episode for certain of cognitive dissonance that we are recording today. Edit point. recording today. Edit point. And we are fortunate enough to be joined this evening by Gail and Daryl from the Recovering from Religion

Foundation Institute Center. What is it? Foundation. Let's go with foundation. All right. I like institute though. Can we make it an institute?

You'd have to have a What do you have to do? Like a journal or something. I'm going to say Recovering from Religion Institute. You've got to change your name because I like it better. It's like the Dharma initiative. It should be an initiative. From the Recovering from Religion initiative.

If it was an institute, then you guys could be institutionalized. We should be. We certainly should be. We absolutely, we absolutely. Well, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time out this evening to come on. Thanks for having us. Of course. So I guess, you know, for our listeners who may not be aware,

tell us a little bit about what Recovering From Religion is as an organization. Sure, sure. So you know that Recovering From Religion was founded by Daryl right here with me in 2009 because Daryl had the vision and the foresight to see that there was a need for folks as they begin their journey of doubting and questioning and working their way through this. Oftentimes that's accompanied by a lot of baggage, and it needs a little bit of time, and space, and freedom to process through, and Daryl saw the need for that. So when he established Recovering From Religion, and he could speak for himself, but when he established it, I don't know that he had

exactly an idea of what we needed, what we could provide, but we have grown over these last years to what we are today. And so I can let Daryl tell his part of it since he's actually here on with us. Well, that's pretty much the way it works. So what was your vision for what Recovering From Religion was going to be when you started it? I know, you know, obviously nobody can see what it's going to eventually morph into, but I'm curious, what was the vision in 2009? I announced a meeting at the back room of the IHOP here in Kansas City, Kansas. Wait a minute.

Why does your IHOP have a back room? What the hell is going on in your IHOP? Because I know what the back room of the video store has. Wait, I mean, I've heard rumors. I don't know. I haven't verified that. Well, you just showed your A's because there hadn't been any videos. I mean, I've heard rumors. I don't know. I haven't verified that. Well, you just showed your A's because there hadn't been any videos. I know, right?

All the kids are like, wait, there's a backroom at iTunes? What are you talking about? Anyway, with the weeks, I just put it on Meetup and a week ahead of time and 11 people showed up. And I didn't know 10 of those 11 people.

And I only asked two questions that evening. I asked, how has religion hurt you and how have you benefited from leaving? And three hours later, the restaurant manager was kicking us out because they were closing the restaurant. And I thought, I have got a tiger by the tail. People need to tell their stories and they need somebody to listen to them. They need strategies for dealing with this because we had ex-Catholics, ex-Mormons, ex-Baptists. We even had ex-Mooney in the room. We don't see any of those, but yeah. So these 11 people all shared their stories. And about halfway through, you could see the light bulbs started coming on in people's minds and said, oh, you were an ex-Baptist and you experienced the same thing I did. I'm an ex-Catholic, for example, or I'm leaving the Catholic church or whatever.

And then a lot of issues that came up during that first meeting was my wife's still religious. We raised our kids religious. What do I do? And it quickly showed me that there was a huge need and there's nobody out there to listen to them or talk to them or give them resource. And from that, we just started building. I thought initially it would be local meetings, meeting around the nation and the world. We got 20 meetings going up within two or three months. Holy cow. Wow. That's incredible. That told me there was a real need for it, but it's also a hell of a lot of work.

So it's slowly, but surely we've been able to pull together all the people we needed. We've got a great number of five, one C three. We've got a extremely good board. We've got, I don't know how many 50, 60,

70 volunteers now working with us. We've got, we've got activities and people in from Norway to United Kingdom to South Africa to Australia. Literally, we have people all over the world helping us on the chat line or on the hotline. So tell me about that. So you guys are launching the new Recovering from Religion hotline, and that's part of what we want to talk about today. So what is that? Tell me all about it.

I want to know what it is and what need is this filling? Sure, sure. So the hotline has actually been in existence for a couple of years, and the hotline is literal. I mean, it's a telephone number, 184-I-DOUBT-IT. See what we did there? Clever girl. eight four. I doubt it. See what we did there? It's an actual hotline. And we started that a couple of years ago. And then last year we incorporated a chat line, which just as you would talk to your bank or your telephone company in a chat bubble on the website. So that opened it up. Really in the beginning, we were trying to come up with an additional option, sometimes in order to create some space to have a telephone call.

Our clients have to, you know, they're worried about a coworker walking in or a child or a spouse walking in. And so the chat gave them one more option to be able to reach out to us without having to have the privacy of the phone call. And that's awesome. to reach out to us without having to have the privacy of the phone call. And that's awesome. But what happened was when we switched and added the chat, we went from a phone-based system to an internet-based system, and that opened us up to the world.

And so the chat, that's been in the last year. And so we've had the hotline and the chat line for the last couple of years. Now we've expanded even more. We. What we have always tried to do at Recovering From Religion, and Daryl did such a good job explaining what his vision was and how it started, but we've always tried to be, we recognize that folks need, as Daryl said, to tell their story. They need to be able to articulate what they're going through. They're troubled. Sometimes for some of us who have been in religion for a number of years and we've based our whole lives on it, it's a seismic shift in how we view the world. You all know that.

And so when folks, especially folks who are a little bit more isolated, you know, people that are in religious areas and they don't have any, they don't know anybody who doesn't believe in religion. They don't know anybody to talk to. And we provide that resource for them to have a place. Sometimes they're on the very beginning of it and they just want to ask some questions. They feel guilty because they're having these doubts and they don't want to be judged just because they're asking the questions. And sometimes they're much farther along in their journey and they do just want to be judged just because they're asking the questions. And sometimes they're much farther along in their journey, and they do just want to tell their stories. And sometimes they're burdened with some of the peripheral stuff.

They've got a spouse who's remaining religious. They don't know how to come out to their parents. They're in a relationship with a believer. Everything that can accompany this enormous journey of doubting and leaving the faith is a place, that's what the hotline is, and the chat line is a place where they can come and talk about it. We had a chat literally just today, correct me if I'm wrong, Gail. This person chatted in with us. He says, I don't think I'm an atheist. I don't know what I am, but I've got lots of questions, and I'm really scared, and I'm really scared about life and about death and about,

and I, oh, by the way, I just got a diagnosis that could be bad. Pretty serious. Wow. Yeah. Serious stuff. We have had kids call in with us, hiding in their closet, 12, 13 year old kids saying my parents are forcing me to go to church. They're going to beat me if I don't. That's the kind of stuff that we have gotten in the past. We get a lot of people saying, I'm becoming an atheist or I'm leaving my religion and I don't know what to do with my family. I don't want to tell anybody. I'm afraid I'll get

divorced. My wife or husband would divorce me. In Alabama, where do you go to find somebody to talk to? Or in Vancouver? I just feel like the thing you do first is leave Alabama, right? Just, I don't know. Like, I can't even imagine a world so bleak it's in Alabama. I'm trying to, like, you're hypothetical. I can't, I just can't get there, you know? So who's on the inside of recovering from religion

and be a part of those kinds of things, we're very cautious about that. We're very protective of the clients who call in. So we have a volunteer vetting process. So once you pass that hurdle, and it's reasonable. As I said, it's an interview process. Yeah, but you don't want any Manchurian volunteers, right? Right, right, right. So once they're inside, then we have to go through training because you don't just answer a call and know what to say to these folks. Sometimes you have folks that are in crisis, and sometimes, you know, what do you say?

And so we have some boundaries in place because we are a hotline. There are some restrictions on what we want our volunteers to do. We're not trying to establish deep personal relationships. We're trying to give folks a place to ask their questions. You know, there's so much value to talking through and articulating your fears and your doubts. And we encourage a lot of that. We ask leading questions. We try to kind of pick apart what it is they're actually saying. So we don't disclose about ourselves.

Obviously, the client is disclosing, but it's not about the volunteer. And so we're real careful not to make it about the volunteer. The volunteer is not free to say, well, now this is how I dealt with it whenever I came out to my parents or whatever. It's not about that. It's about listening to them. It's about helping them articulate what they see as their options. It's about helping them through and having them come up with maybe some conclusions about what they want. We don't.

It's also not a deconversion process. We are not in the business of that. We are trying to help them on their journey at their own pace with their own questions. Whatever conclusion they come to, we want them to do that. So we're not trying to say, okay, well, take the next step. You know that this isn't real or anything like that. That is not't, we're not trying to say, okay, well, take the next step. You know that this isn't real or anything like that. That is not what we're about. We're about helping them and assisting them, helping them think, helping them develop their critical thinking skills, helping them examine

where they are, giving them. And the other thing that we have is Recovering From Religion has a vast collection of resources. We've curated these resources over the years. And so we're able, because part of the training for our volunteers is becoming familiar with those resources, when we hear certain buzzwords, for example, how am I going to raise my children? I want to raise secular children. We have a resource for that. Or how am I going to come out to my parents? We have a resource for that. Or how am I going to come out to my parents? We have a resource for that. So that's also part of the process is this vast array of resources that we're able to provide to them. Blogs, podcasts, books, websites, anything that we can offer to give them a help. And our resource tab is actually open on our website. You can certainly visit it, but because our volunteers are trained with specifics,

we're able to specifically give them the resources that will help them where they are. Anybody could look at our resource. And we've got a lot of other resources that we haven't mentioned yet. For example, we've got a podcast and we've got a blog and we've got a kick-ass podcast. It's better than Cognitive Distance. That's a low bar. Yeah. Pretty much everybody's doing that these days.

It's really not that hard to do. First and still the worst. It's cleverly named the Recovering From Religion podcast. Yeah, right. it's cleverly named the recovering from religion podcast yeah right so now you're you're you're a charity so clearly keeping those resources open for everybody and gaining more resources is where some of that that money goes but what's the what's the charity like when people donate what does their money go to? Sure, sure. Well, it's important for you to know that Recovering From Religion, from top to bottom, is an entirely volunteer organization.

So we don't have salaries. Our admin fees are minimal. So all of the donations, all of our contributions go toward furthering the program. Everything goes outward. It goes toward marketing to try to get the hotline, which we'll talk about the expansion of the hotline in just a few minutes. But it's so many of us, the volunteers, those of us in the secular world, our social media universes tend to be secular people, especially over time. You know, people drop out, religious people, they unfriend us and they leave

and they go away. And so, so many of our personal communities are secular people. And so, it takes money and time and effort to try to market our organization to put it in front of the eyes of the folks who need it, which is religious people, whether that's advertising in magazines or whether that's doing a social media blast or whatever it is. So our resources are specifically designated to reach the folks who need recovering from religion. We have trimmed our administrative costs down to minimal, and our resources go toward trying to help as many people as we possibly can. So as I said, as agents, and we call our trained volunteers agents who field our phone calls and who field our chats, I mentioned before that we have certain restrictions. We don't have any self-disclosure. We're not a deconversion process. We don't give a lot of advice and counsel. We're trying to lead the clients toward that. But we have found over time when we have our calls and our chats,

there's still a piece that's missing, particularly for our isolated folks, and that is to be a part of a community. And there are some folks who are fortunate enough to live in areas we have, as Daryl mentioned, we have recovering from religion support groups. That's another prong of our programs, so to speak. And so in many cities, we have a Recovering From Religion, a real-time support group that meets once a month, real-time at Starbucks or wherever it is that they meet, and they talk and they get their stories out. And if you're fortunate enough to live in one of those cities, awesome. But if it's not in your city and you may be in a rural area or you're just in an area where you don't have access to a support group, because now we're including community. And it's not just a collection of folks.

When a client joins our online community, they are able to request either a religion-specific or an experience-specific group of folks who will have dealt with, yes, dealt with and processed the same or similar situation as the person coming in. For example, maybe it's Baptist, maybe it's LGBT, maybe it's Muslim, maybe it's Mormon. And so our community, inside those communities then that they can share their stories, and then that's where they can hear, well, this is the way I handled it, and this is what I didn't do so well, and this is what I did. And so that seemed to be the one missing piece of the puzzle. We did an awesome job of fielding their questions and helping them along, but then they desperately wanted to be able to talk to other folks who have been there.

So we have expanded. Now we're calling it the helpline because the helpline is the resources. It's the hotline. It's the chatline. It's the online communities. It's everything we can possibly do to help you in your journey of recovering from religion or questioning and doubting your religion. You know, our mission statement is to offer hope, healing, and support to those folks who are experiencing doubt or leaving their faith. And that's exactly been our focus on how we expand the helpline to do exactly that. How can we provide hope, help, and support? And so let me, how many calls do you think you get in a week? I mean, do you guys track that? I mean, how big is the, is the need for this? And I'm curious also just from just, just curious, like, do you track where

these calls come from in order for you guys to market to, and I guess the reason I ask is, you know, I'm fortunate enough to live in, in Chicago, you know, so it's a being secular here in Chicago is not terribly difficult to be honest with you. You know, I'm certain it is for some people in some families, right. But I'm talking more generally from a community-based perspective. But, but as you discussed, you know, like if you were unfortunate enough to live in Alabama, you know, like I would think that there would be just so much more need for that in certain areas. So do you guys do research to track this, to make sure that your marketing efforts are aimed at those more vulnerable communities? We do. And that's an insightful question.

Yes, we do. aimed at those more vulnerable communities? We do, and that's an insightful question. Yes, we do. We're able to see when their call comes in because of the technical platform that we're using. When the call comes in, we have a general idea of the location. We're very protective of the identity of the folks who call in. After our initial call or chat, if it leads to us having a perception that they might benefit from being in the community, they are asked to provide an email. But even that one, if they're a little bit apprehensive about that, if they're so protective of it, they can just create an entire email address, which we have had people have to do because of the privacy of all of that. But they do have to provide that.

They don't have to provide their real name. They can use an alias if they choose to do that. So, yes, we're able to track where they come in. Yes, we do have multiple calls going on, often calls and chats going on at the same time. We've just transitioned from one, and I'm not a tech person, so I may not be using the correct lingo, from one platform to another platform. So we're just reintegrating and getting all of our volunteers into there so that we can handle all of the calls and the chats that come in at the same time.

If you go to recoveringfromreligion.org, that's our landing page. There is a little chat bubble in the corner, just like you would when you find chat at any of a commercial website or something like that. And if that little green bubble is on, there's an agent available to take your chat. And the number is 184-I-DOUBT-IT. And that you can call from a phone. You don't even have to be near a computer to do that. And if nobody answers, you can just say, I'd like somebody to call me back. And we will literally schedule somebody for you to call them back.

That's yet another option that we've tried to offer. As I said, our foremost thought is how can we help these folks? So, yes, returning a call and scheduling a call to be returned is yet another option they can take advantage of. Within the last week or two, we've had chats from South Africa, England, among many others. I'm just saying, you're starting to really get international participation. People are learning about us. How they learn about us, I'm not sure sometimes. Wow.

So when you first started, you were in an IHOP. Have you guys upgraded to, say, an Olive Garden where you can get limited breadsticks or something? Is that an upgrade? No, I don't think it is actually is that an upgrade as i said it i sort of threw up in my mouth so i mean i don't think it is aren't you just choosing like when to have a stomach exactly yeah you're just like oh i don't really care how the carbs get in right yeah uh should i shit my brains out after breakfast or after dinner it really doesn't matter right yeah i'm gonna spend the next four hours reading a book on the shitter. So if people were going to find this, I know you mentioned it

earlier, but mention it again. How would someone, if they wanted to connect with you, how would they do it? Sure. It's real simple. The phone number is 1-8-4, I doubt it. And the website is recoveringfromreligion.org. And I want to mention, I don't know if we've said this, and we've implied it, but we haven't said it. All of these services are completely free. We do offer professional counseling through our secular therapy project. And that's a whole other program that we have that connects folks to secular therapists that are professionals. This peer support, the phone calls, the chats, the resources, all of that is zero cost to the client. In 2012, we started the secular therapy project because you may not realize it,

but in Oklahoma City or Birmingham, Alabama, it's almost impossible to find a truly secular therapist. Isn't it impossible to find somebody that can read in most of those communities? I'm sorry. I'm not nice as a person. Yeah, it is. But we did. We created like a match.com and you can make all the fun you want there between therapists and clients. Clients are looking for secular

therapists in Oklahoma City. Well, there's no secular therapist can raise their hand and say, I'm a secular therapist. I'm an atheist. They would lose their entire practice because no hospital would refer to them. No doctor would refer to them. That's terrible.

So just raising your hand and say, I'm an atheist in Oklahoma City, you will lose your entire practice. So we have to be careful to protect their immunity. On the other side, clients are seeking therapists. They can't go online and say, I want a secular therapist

in Oklahoma City. Everybody you look at will say, I'm a Christian therapist or I'm a spiritual therapist. They can't find these people. That's just crazy to me, though. I don't mean to interrupt, and I know that that's the way

the world works south of the Mason-Dixon or whatever, but that's terrible. That's just terrible you would be surprised at how many christian counselors there are in chicago illinois oh i'm sure oh yeah i'm sure there are but like finding secular would not be terribly hard i don't think it it can be you can end up with a woo-woo new age yeah they're right it's not it's not just religion it's it's getting your third chakra aligned or making sure that hurt that's not just religion. It's getting your third chakra aligned

or making sure that Mercury's not retrograde or whatever it is. Weird. Dry needling. You call it whatever you want. When you go online, I've done online dating

in my past. Yesterday is your past. Really? Well, within the last month. And when you get online, you don't know who you're connecting with and they can't see you and you can't see you don't mean there may be a photograph or whatever.

Right. Text the anonymity of both sides until you decide you're ready to move forward and have your coffee or your date. But isn't it really depressing when the therapist swipes left on you, though? No, I'm not going to do that. I can say yes. So once you've established, you go online, you register as a therapist, you register as a client, and then you go in and search and find, show me all the therapists within 50 miles of me.

And then you connect, you send an email through our system to the therapist you select. That's awesome. It'll show you all their specialties. It has a description of their practice and what kind of practice they, you know, maybe their marriage and family or maybe children. And then you can find somebody that is guaranteed secular because I, along with four other secular atheist therapists, vet every person who comes into our system. And it's not just a superficial vetting. It's a comprehensive vetting process just to ascertain that that person does provide evidence-based therapy because you, as we were joking about, you'd be surprised at what creeps in. And so Daryl and the other professionals, it's a comprehensive vetting process.

Right. And it takes us several weeks to vet a new, people apply, a psychologist or social worker apply to become a therapist with us and we vet them. We do reject somewhere around 30% of all applicants because they don't meet... Yeah, they don't meet our criteria. They have to prove to us they're secular and they have to prove they use evidence-based sector. And they're not hot enough. So what is that process?

What's your favorite Carl Sagan quote? How do you prove it? Which of the four horsemen do you most identify with? It was like a Facebook quiz. Oh, I got talking. Oh man, man, I got hitched again. That sucks.

Oh, that's a good one. Just look at the website. And so that's, that, that would give you an indication, but you also might, um, and Daryl can tell you more about it. You might check, um, you know, Yelp reviews. You might, you know, there's an interview process with the, with the, with the therapist himself. What else? There's an interview process with the therapist himself. What else, Daryl? There's a sorting hat.

If they can show us that on their Facebook page that they've made secular references, or they belong to a meetup site that's secular, that'll satisfy us. They can't always send us that, and it would be dangerous sometimes because they don't want to be outed. That's crazy. How we're going to use that information. So that's just crazy. And you have this secure email system that keeps everybody anonymous in that whole process, right? Right. Exactly. Wow. Can you contact John Podesta and set something up there? And we also cooperate really closely with other groups like the Clergy Project.

We actually help clergy with therapy sometimes because getting out of being a minister can be a pretty traumatic thing. We refer people to other groups like Grief Beyond Belief. I was just going to mention Grief Beyond Belief

because we had interviewed someone from Grief Beyond Belief a I was just going to mention Grief Beyond Belief because we had interviewed... They do great work too. We interviewed someone from Grief Beyond Belief a while back and when we started talking about the secular therapy, that immediately brought that back. Rebecca Hensler has done a great job there and we want to support all those kinds of groups. We think we're going to get a lot of people.

We're not going to. We get a lot of people coming to us because we're the first point of contact. But then we need to send them to the places where they can get help. So one more time, where would they find you? Sure. The website is recoveringfromreligion.org. And the phone number is 184-I-DOUBT-IT. And of course, we have social media. We have Twitter. We have Facebook. You can find us all over the place. All you have to do is look. and we always, always embrace new volunteers. We depend upon the donations, the generous contributions of folks who share our vision. released or when we have a new blog come out, if you can give us that. And then the most,

one of the most important things is to put, is to help us find the people who need us. So if you can make a recommendation or a reference to someone who's seeking and who's needing what we provide, that's the other thing that we can ask for. So all of that helps us out. We're going to put all this information on this episode, show notes is episode 361. Thanks so much for joining us. We really do. Your work is amazing and keep it up. Thank you for having us. Put them up.

Put them up. Which one of you fights? I'll fight you both together if you want. I'll fight you with one poor tie behind my back. I'll fight you standing on one foot. I'll fight you with my eyes closed. See, so this story, which is, by the way, on episode 361. Cognitive distance.

I didn't get that wrong earlier. Don't worry about that. 361. You never heard me say 362. I edited in 361. These are not the 362s you're looking for. I didn't edit it in. I'm not telling you.

362 earlier. This story is from right wing watch Sandy Rios defends Greg Gianforte's I may have mispronounced it I'm sorry assault on girly man reporter doesn't Gianforte mean strength anyway Forte

it's just giant fort it's Greg giant fort It's just Giant Fort. It's just Giant Fort. It's Greg Giant Fort. Giant Fort Day. So just if anybody hasn't seen this, that Greg Gianforte guy fucked up Ben Jacobs.

He fucking chokeslammed him. He fucking Undertaker'd him. Is that the guy? Yeah, it's Undertaker. Did I get that right? There's a couple of different guys, but Undertaker's one of them. Yes! So here's the thing. Wrestling is real. It is. I know. Right.

So here's the, here's what, so there's been a couple of different reports. What you have is audio of the incident and the audio of the incident basically has a guy say, ask a question. That's the guardian reporter. Right.

Ask a question. The guy says he doesn't want to answer it right now. And he says, yeah, but I won't get a chance to ask it later. Is there any way? And he's pushed. He's badgering. He's clearly badgering him. That's what reporters do to public individuals.

Sure. That's what happens. If you're in the news and you're a newsworthy individual, you should expect that you're going to be badgered by reporters. If not, then you need to sequester yourself in a place that you're away from reporters. You chose to be in politics. Nobody held a gun to your head and said you had to be in politics. So this guy, every reporter should have,

every politician should have, they should know this is going to happen. So he gets asked twice. Then there's a moment where you hear a rustling and he says something like, get the hell away from me or whatever. And then there's a rustling. You hear the thing fly across the room. It bounces whatever it flies across the room the recorder and then there's a there's rustling sounds and he says

you know he says you guys always do this or something and then there's there's a moment where the guy says you just body slam me and and the the guy doesn't deny it the person gianforte doesn't deny it he says something else to the effect of stop pestering me or stop bothering me. And then this guy turns and asks these people who Fox News that is there and said, hey, can I have your names? They're dumbfounded. They don't even speak. And then he says, well, I'm not going to leave. I'm going to call the cops because he gets told to leave by one of the security guards.

And that's the end of the tape. The Fox News guys corroborate. So the Fox News guys corroborate this story. They say he was he wasn't body slammed. He was choked slammed, which is a totally different finishing maneuver. And then this guy's camp before Fox News corroborates it, though, comes out with a version of the story that he shoved the recorder in the face of the guy, the politician. The politician then grabs

his arm to push it away. This guy then pulls, pulls so hard that they both fall on the ground. So the reporter basically pulled him to the ground is what they're trying to say happened. He wasn't supposed to be there. He wasn't supposed to be in this restricted area, which is, again, blaming the victim,

right, of your choke slam you're basically like oh I fucking body slammed that guy on the ground or choke slammed that guy on the ground but it's his fault because he shouldn't have been there to be fair he was wearing a choker and if you don't want to get choked don't wear a choker and in his leotard

and those are all indicators that you need to be choke slammed I actually do think if somebody shows up dressed as a wrestler you do get to wrestle them right? I feel like if somebody just busts in a wrestler, you do get to wrestle them, right? I feel like if somebody just busts in and is like, dude, they got the fucking mask and everything. You're allowed to go off the top rope. You can do the people's elbow. I feel like it's more than that.

You're expected to. It's not just allowed. Exactly, right? It's like, I don't know, like you're at a wedding, you got to dance, right? So anyway, so that's what happened. That's the backstory on this reporter being assaulted by this guy. And it was assault because he got charged with misdemeanor assault. Why is that misdemeanor? I don't know.

I don't know. You're in Montana, and I think you actually have to shoot someone and fuck their mouth in Montana in order for it to be actually like a felon assault. I think one of the things that was suggested is that it might have been a misdemeanor assault charge because the sheriff is a known contributor to Gianforte's campaign. He's his wrestling manager. He's the Don King for Greg Gianforte. He's Undertaker's like guy, the pallbearer or whatever he used to follow around. Pallbearer was his name, I think. It's a great pun.

It's really funny. I don't know if that's his name or not, but to follow around. Paul Bearer was his name, I think. It's a great pun. It was really funny. I don't know if that's his name or not, but that's funny. Anyway, so Sandy Rios then came out with this tape about this particular incident that we're going to listen to right now. This is from Right Wing Watch. He's probably delighted about what he caused to happen.

And you wonder, I mean, how do you handle that? If the press is so aggressive with you and rude, which they are, do you have no rights at all to fight back? I don't know. No, you don't have a right to fight the press is so aggressive with you uh and rude which they are do you have no rights at all to fight back i don't know no no you don't have a right to fight the press if somebody's rude to you if somebody calls you a cocksucker on the street you don't get on the right to shank them right that's a stupid society you're thinking yeah right like i don't know i went to a starbucks and the barista got my drink wrong so i fucked her you know like what what no you can't do that like you can't respond to perceived slights of etiquette or even or even aggressive breaches of etiquette with physical

violence like you can't we can never do that we've sort of come a long way baby since then are we are we really to the point where it's like, Dems fight warriors. Yeah, we're not throwing gauntlets down at people's feet. That's ridiculous. I say, I say, I say. I say. Concern it. Maybe you shouldn't be knocking them over if he did that, but what else are you to do? Suck it up, buttercup. You're a

fucking politician. You're supposed to answer questions that the public ask you. But even beyond that, it's like, what else? She says, maybe you shouldn't knock them over. What else are you supposed to answer questions that the public ask you. But even beyond that, it's like, what else? She says, like, maybe you shouldn't knock him over. What else are you supposed to do? Well, not knock him over. Leave the room. Right? Leave the room. Talk to him.

Just leave the room. Don't talk to him. The guy's in your way. Walk around him. You know, it seems to me like it'd be an easy thing to do. Like, I understand getting frustrated by it, right? I do, too. Absolutely. Like, I would get frustrated if somebody's up in my fucking grill, right? But I'd also i also be like well i guess i fucking was asked for this and i'll what i'll do is i'll make his fucking i'll make him i will bore that man into submission i'll stand there and just drop my face into stoicism just like and just quiet it up there's

nothing for him to do yeah he asked all the questions i wouldn't even respond if i'm not going to answer that question i'll just be be fucking dead silent until you leave. Your recorder will run out of batteries. That's it. I'll sit fucking Indian style. It's crisscross applesauce or Taylor sitting, sir. I'm going to sit Indian style because I kick it old school. Yeah, I'll just

wait you out or I'll just leave. I'll just go somewhere else. There's plenty of other solutions to this. There's a hundred other solutions than grab the guy by the throat and do your finishing move. Right. Yeah. Was he heard to utter, get over here before I get over here? And, you know, I was watching last night.

I was watching a Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy movie because I told you sometimes I was. Because I like the past. Oh, my God. The past. I got out my reel to past. Oh, my God. The past. I got out my reel to reel. Oh, my God. I was watching a Clark Gables or Spencer. These are those old timey people, though, that are like, America used to be great when you used to be able to grab a handful of woman ass.

Right. Whatever you wanted. And just. Again, that was a time. Date rape, whoever you like. Old movies just to cleanse my brain I was in so many meetings yesterday and they were good friends and yet

they fought it was the wild west and they were getting fights with each other because they get angry it's a fictional fucking time also it's a different time if somebody laid their hands on me and they said they were my friend I would never talk to him again can you imagine fist fighting?

I couldn't. I literally can't. When was the last time, Tom, when was the last time you balled up your fist and punched someone with it? When was the last time? Junior year of high school. Summer between junior and senior year.

I genuinely don't remember the last time I did it. We've given up on this. We've evolved past where you have to fucking fight the next jerk for berries. We don't do this anymore, right? You just don't do it. Now, fucking Wild West times are different times.

You know, and again, like you said, it's fictional anyway. Right? It's already fiction. It's like, well, I remember when we used to be able to solve the problem by carrying around a 44 Magnum

and asking people if they felt lucky. Yeah, exactly. No, that didn't happen. That's a fucking imaginary vengeance bullshit. And I'm thinking, you know, I remember when men used to actually settle things between themselves, exactly yeah no that didn't happen that's a fucking imaginary vengeance bullshit and i'm thinking you know i remember when men used to actually settle things between themselves um not killing each other but you know just settling and so uh but now in this culture you man you you that's whatever if you respond in any way with any kind of anger uh that's a terrible

thing it is yes absolutely yeah i know you're being sarcastic you fucking twat but that's a terrible thing. It is. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I know you're being sarcastic, you fucking twat, but that's a fucking real thing. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody should be. No, nobody should be settling things like men between themselves through physical violence. That's actually not settling things like men. That's settling things like children on the schoolyard. Absolutely.

And I feel like she's mansplaining to me right now. I don't even know how to ask this, except I described, you know, watching that old movie with Clark Gable and Spencer Tracy and how many fights there were between the guys and they honor, like they settled their differences. I'm not saying we should be the wild West,

but it has something been lost in us becoming maybe over the line in terms of every touch, every glance, every, uh, it's not a glance. It's not a glance. And it's not just a touch. It's a fucking physically violent act against another human being.

Like I couldn't like, here's the thing. Like, even if the guy just like kept walking in the same direction and this guy got shouldered by him, I wouldn't be as nearly as worked up about this. But this guy physically attacked the other guy. The thing is, too, we should settle things like, we want the arbiter of who's right and wrong to be settled by who's stronger

or better in combat. It's not a trial by combat. Exactly. Because maybe I'm younger or stronger than somebody, it means I'm more right about the subject we're disagreeing about? Well, and think about it this way. The converse. If you think this is how this should be solved, then I guess that reporter should be allowed to tackle you and hold you on the ground until you answer the fucking question, right? Let's think about the converse then.

Let's think about, okay, well, if that's the world you want to live in, then fucking fat ass chumpy Donald Trump is going to get fucking held down and he's going to piss himself because there's going to be one big, strong, the rock motherfucker who's going to hold him on the ground and make him tell him the fucking what he wants to hear. You know, if that's the case, if that's the world you want to live in, why do people have secret service then? Why are they constantly surrounded by bodyguards? If the world you want to live in is put up your dukes that don't have a secret service. Attempt at sort of settling a circumstance is punishable by law. You know, it all sounds very

grade school. Assault is punishable by law. That's how it works. That's how laws work. Even in fucking Mad Max style Montana. Right. They still have laws. Yeah, one. They just happen to be a misdemeanor instead of a felony everywhere else.

Playgroundy, doesn't it? Like the kids that go, he hit me. That's what he sounded like to me. I'm sorry. I know I'm tough on him. I am. Because you're a cunt. That's why.

Because you're a giant fucking puls Because you're a cunt. That's why. Because you're a giant fucking pulsating, oozing cunt. I hate to say this, but it's also because nobody's going to beat her up if she's wrong. Absolutely. Because she doesn't have to face... It's really easy to say when you don't think that you're going to be the subject of a beating. Yep.

But if you think like, oh, well, I guess we should just settle our agreements by beating the shit out of each other. Well, you know, hope you like getting the shit beat out of you. You're never going to get challenged to combat. Right. Yeah. There's a big difference between a frail old woman and somebody else who's going to try to defend themselves.

Exactly. He's already printed so many bad things about this GN-40. And I imagine GN-40 was pretty, pretty angry. Well, that's fucking too bad. You can be as angry as you want. Be super fucking angry. Hey, man, have you been angry? I'm angry right now.

I am too. You're going to beat up Sandy Rios? Jesus. I'm not going to ever beat up Sandy Rios. To begin with, especially when he came in. So I realize I'm presenting it with the facts that I know. Maybe we'll hear more today and I'll go, oh, Gianforte is a terrible person. You presented a single fact. All you presented

is an opinion. Well, her facts are, I don't really know what happened. That's not a fact. That's just admitting ignorance. Sure. I don't know how space shuttles work. That's not a fact about space shuttles. The difference is you don't

know how space shuttles work. She doesn't know how laws work. I'm glad he didn't win, but I don't think so. How are you to respond if someone is, I mean, there is a natural anger that comes when someone invades your space and abuses really their ability to do what it is that they're doing. They're abusing their ability to do what it is they're doing. It doesn't make any sense. I don't know what the fuck that means. I'm going to abuse my ability to do what I do.

Like, what? What? I feel like that's just masturbating. It feels like you should be shaking your head back and forth when you say it. What you're saying here is that you think that that guy got up in his grill and invaded his space well again so what yeah just being in someone's space if you

you're supposed you have to put your hands on someone else first and even in the fucking released statement that gianforte's fucking camp released statement is he put his hand on the reporter right he is at fault that's why he was charged with even a misdemeanor right it's because he put his hands on the other guy you can't do that we don't let people do that. Because the excuse can't be, I beat him up because I was angry. Because he was in my space. That's implied. It's implied that that's why I like that. Well, I beat that guy up.

Well, were you angry? Yes, we'll let him go. He was angry. What else was he supposed to do? Control his temper like a big boy? Well, was he a Nazi and were you Dan Errol? Because then we'll let you off. Gone across a line.

And it seems to me like this may have been what happened with Gianforte and this Ben Jacobs. But, William, what do you think about men fighting? Do you think that we've lost some ability to settle things on our own by having this kind of girly man response and this litigation and calling the police instead of just settling it? When have you, I mean, isn't that insulting to women to call somebody a girly man? I think it is.

You're saying like that if I am girly, that that makes me less than? Yeah. Isn't that like, oh, you don't want someone to be like my gender. Ugh, I'm weak and shitty.

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Or tell your buddies in the drunk tank about the show. We want to send a big sloppy glory hole to all the patrons and people who rate us. You fucking rock. So season of the story is from Right Wing Watch. This is our least favorite shoe. Theodore Shoebat. Victims of Manchester bombing were pro sodomite sluts and whores. What's worse, a shoe bat or a shoe spider? Which is worse?

Because the bat, you know, for sure is in there because it squishes. Right. That's true. That's true. You know, it's hard to tell because once you've got the spider in there, then you have to swallow the shoe bird to catch the spider. The fly is always assumed. Yeah, the fly is assumed. My stomach is essentially a fly strip.

I just fly in there. I just keep my mouth open all the time. What I do is I make sure to eat an entire food chain in sequence. Repository for dead flies. It's essentially my stomach. You're like the Amityville horror if you get opened up. What the fuck was he doing?

Is that a plague of locusts I hear? Is that Cecil coming by? All right. So the shoe ban is just mean to little kids. Remember, like, the youngest kid to die at that concert, at the Ariana Grande concert, was an eight-year-old girl.

Eight-year-old, yeah. She was about to call her a pro-sodomite slut. Yeah. I want to say, too, and I'm being in an all-serious now, we visited Manchester.

It's a beautiful city. We had a wonderful time. We had a wonderful time. It's a beautiful city. The people were incredible. And they were nice. They were good, nice people. We had a great time there It's a beautiful city. The people were incredible. And they were nice. They were good, nice people. We had a great time there.

We not only got a chance to meet people from Manchester itself, but people from all over England when we went, and all over the world when we went to QED. And we had a wonderful time. And it wasn't just people from Manchester, but every time we ventured out, every time we traveled somewhere inside that area, I never felt like anybody was ever rude or mean.

Oh my God, no. I had just a wonderful time there. It's a beautiful city. It is. It is a beautiful city. And I was absolutely moved by how many people came out for that vigil. There was just, the street was packed.

You could not fit another human being on that street. And I just, I was, you're struck, you're just so saddened by this turn of events clearly perpetrated by somebody who is linking themselves to islamic extremism to awful shitty terrible ideas that deserve no quarter in the in the marketplace side of ideas there's they're awful shitty ideas and the religions that propagate them are awful, terrible things that have twisted people's minds and the blowing themselves up to hurt other people. Any,

any set of motivations that can encourage you to attend a concert primarily full of preteen girls and set off a bomb designed to do them. I designed set of a bomb period, but specifically a bomb designed to do the maximum amount of bomb period but specifically a bomb designed to do the maximum amount of carnage and damage to fucking children I mean what kind of a fucking horrifying monster of an

and any set of ideas that would encourage or condone in any way in any way even in the slightest way any set of ideas that could possibly allow for that to be anything other than an evil. Yeah. Just have no place in the world.

Those ideas have no place in the civilized world. They should never be considered, respected, tolerated. Absolutely. I'm 100% with you. clearly a calculated attack to hurt the morale of the people of that country to further divide that country behind pro and anti-immigration to further cause a grift among the people there so that it destabilizes that country that's what they're trying to do that's their goal their goal is to destabilize their goal is intention of these kind of acts. Their goal is to destabilize. Their goal is to make you afraid of the other.

Their goal is to make you live in fear, to constantly be checking. That's what they want. That's the goal of all these people. That's how they want this world to work. They want you to be afraid. And those people who stood out there at that vigil. Not afraid. Basically said, fuck off. I'm not afraid of you.

You can't scare us. And so, bravo, Manchester is just, I Basically, he said, fuck off. I'm not afraid of you. You can't scare us. And so, bravo, Manchester is just, I mean, it's a beautiful place, beautiful people, and they handled this in an amazing way. I mean, hats off to them. But I want to talk about this horrible, despicable, shitty human being who would attack the victims of this. In regards to this attack, I must say, I really have no sympathy for these people. The people who died, the people who were injured. An eight-year-old girl. I don't care what

any eight-year-old girl has ever said or done. She's below the age of reason. She literally cannot be responsible. What would an eight-year-old girl do that could possibly be that could possibly warrant this kind of to be the death penalty a suicide bomber that's confusing to me

you scanners no even still like even still it's not her fault she's manipulated into that yeah of course we're kidding but but yeah it's like even then it's not her fault she's manipulated into that she's manipulated her whole life yeah of course we're kidding but but yeah it's like even then it's not their fault they're too young to make that choice even catholics even idiots like you who have your cross that you probably stick up your ass every night this guy sits under like you know this this guy sits under this cross every night even the catholics have a moment that they still say that you come to the age of reason. It's not eight. It's not eight. Who were scared out of their minds and who ran away. I really don't care. You don't care that people ran away from a scene of carnage and devastation.

What I like about this is that he's saying that people who are afraid that someone blew themselves up and killed people ran away screaming. It's like, yeah, everybody does that. Like, that's a silly thing. Your body does that. I freaked out when I ate a bad licorice. Yeah. Your body's just like, oh, bomb. Yeah.

Oh, I got a cold body massage machine. Go. Like, it just go. Right. This guy, this is the kind of guy, though, that loves to, you know, he loves to yap. Jabbers. He loves to yap. that loves to you know he loves jabbers he loves to yap he loves to talk but if this guy ever saw anything that approached something that could be threatening or dangerous

right this guy fills his pants so fast you know how dogs in in in a pack will like pee on themselves to show submission like this is the kind of guy who would scoop the shit out of his pants right and rub it on his face to say how how submissive he is like he's that kind of guy who would scoop the shit out of his pants and rub it on his face to say how submissive he is. Like he's that kind of person. This is a guy who clearly lives with so much fear that he can't even pluck his own eyebrows. Like he's afraid of the most. Eyebrow, Tom. Eyebrow.

Let's not give him more eyebrows than he has. All right. You've got me there. Cyclop, bro. The types of people that go to these concerts are the same types of people who are responsible for the degeneracy that you see in society. The moral decay, the decay of nations.

These people are responsible. That little eight-year-old girl is responsible for the degeneracy of society. She wrote a strongly worded letter to the UN once. What? In all caps? Like she had to use that paper that has like the dash line through the center of it because she's eight.

Because she's eight. Yeah. Which is a second grader. That's outrageous. I mean, there's the idea. You know what he's saying is, though, is that and he's going to show a picture. We have to describe later, but he's going to show a picture of what he thinks are gay people. And that's what makes it that's what makes it OK.

They killed gay people. Now, he's not going to say that it's OK that they died, that they were killed, but he's going to think it's OK that they died. There's a difference there. It's very subtle. A guy like this. Can you imagine if he met the dad of that 8 year old girl or the mom for that matter whatever doesn't matter

you think he would talk like this in front of them in front of the grieving parent real easy right real easy when you're not faced and I'm not even talking about the threat of violence I'm talking about when you're faced with somebody's real grief when you are faced with somebody's real genuine grief when somebody's heart has. When you are faced with somebody's real, genuine grief, when

somebody's heart has actually broken and you can see that and you're forced to face the fact of somebody's raw humanity, do you think he would talk like that? No, I don't think so. I also think though too, and this is something I was thinking about today, And this was, this was at the Sandy Rio story earlier. You know, we have this, and this, this could be just a total tangent and I, and I apologize, but I,

it's something I was thinking about. So we have this, when we talk, you and I talk, and when I talk to other people, at least people I know, we're all sort of wowed by an underdog story. We're all like,

Oh yeah, the underdog story, the underdog story. We all kind of, we, we root for the underdog. We root for the underdog. Why do we root for the underdog? Because We're all like, oh yeah, the underdog story. We all kind of, we root for the underdog. We root for the underdog. Why do we root for the underdog?

Because we have empathy, right? Because that's what causes people to think, I want the underdog to win, is that they're empathetic to the position that they're in. That, you know, to be in that position would suck. You know, nobody believes in you.

You don't believe in yourself, et cetera. And then you wind up, you know, overcoming that. Come from behind. Overcoming all that. Right? It's one of the best ways to come. you know, nobody believes in you, you don't believe in yourself, et cetera, and then you wind up, you know, overcoming the odds. Right? It's one of the best ways to come. Well, okay. Sure, like, I like the sprinkler, but however you want to do it is fine.

Am I selecting a group of people to surround myself that agree with me? Because look at Trump, right? I know Trump played the underdog card, but he's also a bully. And he's an overt bully, right? He's a bully of a human being.

We watched today how he bullied one of the guys out of the way just to get his picture taken, right? You know, and if you're a Trump supporter, I don't know how you defend that set of actions that he did today as not him trying to be a dominant shitty asshole. Right. That's the only thing you can. I don't know how you how you look at what he did today.

I did read some comment threads about that out of curiosity. And people are like, good America first. Well, yeah. OK. And exactly that that that echoes my point. Exactly. Which is which is if if they if they did try to defend it as like, oh, it was a joke, it's clearly not a joke. You can see his face crinkles, his old fucking shitty, gross, bully face crinkles when he tries to grab the guy.

He's clenching his teeth and he's trying to use force. You can see it happen. So that's all bullshit. But the other option is the good, right? Good. I'm glad he did that. I'm glad he pushed someone else around. I'm glad the leader of our nation is pushing other people around physically, right?

That's a populace of people that don't have that level of empathy that I have or that other people have. They don't care about universal health care. It would never occur to them and it would never occur to them because they only care about people that came out of their vaginas and out of their dicks. Right. That is the only people that they care about. I have a question about this. Could we then realistically use cool runnings as a litmus test? Like if you watch cool runnings and you're like,

or do we have to use the mighty ducks? I would stay away from cool runnings because can a racist be empathy? That's true. We got to get rid of the black. What about Bad News Bears? Bad News Bears. Could you predict somebody's political leanings

by their reaction to Bad News Bears? I say you do Brian's song. Or what's that movie where Hilary Swank breaks her neck? Oh. Million Dollar Baby.

Million Dollar Baby. Do that one. There you go. Sorry, spoiler alert. In Million Dollar Baby, Hillary Swank breaks her neck. It's kind of the whole plot of the movie, actually. Whoopsie. Rosebud is the sled, too.

But it occurred to me when I was thinking about that bullying. Like, because she's like Sandy Rios in the previous story is clearly talking about bullying other people. Right. She's saying that's OK, that it's OK if you have to fist fight to get your way through it. You know, this guy clearly has no empathy. Right. There's no empathy. And is there a connection? Right. Is there a connection between these people that have no empathy, that are rooting for the bully, that don't care about other people? Is there some connection there? Do you think, and I don't know, we're just speculating, but I'm curious, like, honestly, like, do you think this guy has no empathy because he has the benefit of distance? Distance erodes empathy. It does. I think you're right. Yeah. So do you think,

do you think people like this have less empathy because they have greater distance and they're able to maintain distance through, you know, by engaging the world sort of through distance-related media. Almost voyeuristically. You know what I mean? He's not participating in the world. He's commenting on the world. He's seeing stories and...

I don't like this train of thought we're going down. Burn them. Burn them all. They go to these concerts dressed up as whores, dressed up as sluts. They're pro-sodomite. They're pro-divorce.

They're pro-infidelity. Check, check, check. That's the thing. How on earth could an 8-year-old be any of those? An 8-year-old is pro-divorce. An 8-year-old is dressed like a whore? Yeah, an eight-year-old is pro-divorce. An eight-year-old is dressed like a whore? Right.

An eight-year-old is pro-sodomy? I mean, maybe if you're in one of those countries with trafficking. Andy Wilson lives over there, doesn't he? How does an eight-year-old relate to any of that stuff? She doesn't, right? She can't. Pro-divorce? An eight-year-old is pro-divorce?

Man. His daddy lives across town. That's awful. daddy lives across town. That's awful. They are they are they have no interest to defending the culture and the morality and the tradition

and the faith that Europe once had. They have no interest at all. Well, they're not European. First of all. Yeah, I mean, they're definitively not European. No, they Brexited the fuck out of it. Yeah, well well and also does that fall on an eight-year-old show i don't know does keeping the faith fall on an eight-year-old show like everything you're saying is ridiculous right at its face period but it's even more ridiculous when you think about the victims of this crime

right it's a silly thing to even think about adults having to keep this same weird stormtrooper culture you have going through your fucking head. In his mind, like a preteen girl has to defend the honors of a traditional society? They want evil. They want decay. They want sodomy. They want Sodom and Gomorrah. Nobody wants Sodom and Gomorrah. Nobody wants evil and decay.

Some people do want sodomy. Who cares? As long as everybody involved in that transaction is pro-sodomy, then fucking who cares? And if you're totally into it, go to our sponsor, AdamEve.com. There's all kinds of things that you can put in your butt you're gonna need some lube or help you to get in the butt or make sure that the butt feels good you know there's lots of things that you can do just go to adam eve.com enter gloria checkout gloria checkout get a free gift 50 off almost any order you'll get a swing get a sex swing get a sex

swing i mean there's a lot You have a lot going for you here. Right. And you could have a lot going into you as well. Let me show you guys some examples of what I am talking about here. Alright, so let's look at some of the people who went

to the concert. So he's going to show a picture of victims. So there's two victims on the screen right now and I'm going to describe what we're seeing. We're seeing a boobie, what do they call those? Bobbies? Two bobbies? That's what you call police officers over there? Oh, they have different names?

They don't call them coppers? And then they have a woman, a young girl. I don't know how old she is. She's in a tank top. She's a teen plus and she's in a tank top. Maybe in teen. She's a teen plus. And she is in a tank top. And you can see the shape of her right boobie a little bit. No matter how indecently she were dressed.

It doesn't matter. So I just want to be very clear that we're not on them. But I also want to say, like, there's nothing indecent about the way she's dressed. Pretty average looking top. She's just a woman in a tank top. In a, in a society that does not care mostly unless you're a crazy uptight Christian. Right.

There's another picture on the guy on the right. He's got his arm. Oh, there's a guy in all black with glasses. There's a guy in white with a black shirt. It looks like they took his pants off inside to work on him. And he's walking out with bandages on his leg in his boxers. Right.

So he probably did not go to the concert in his tight white. He probably had his pants removed inside so that they could quickly bandage his legs, which are clearly injured in this in this photo. He's being helped out by a couple of individuals, one of which has a shaved hair cut with a pair of glasses. They're both a little overweight. The victims of the bombing. I'm not saying bombing is good. I don't agree with it. All right.

I don't agree with it. So let's get that clear. But I'm totally cool with is good. I don't agree with it. All right? I don't agree with it. So let's get that clear. But I'm totally cool with the results of the bombing. So I don't agree with the bombing itself, but I'm super happy about how these people reacted, how they were killed, and I'm not sympathetic to any of them. And I feel like you're pro-bombing. Yeah, I mean, I think...

Right? Like, how do you not agree with it when you agree with what happened as a result of it? All the stuff that happened afterwards. Right? I don't... It's a distinction without a difference. But let's look at the people here. This is why I really have no sympathy. How do you not agree with it when you agree with what happened as a result of it? All the stuff that happened after it. It's a distinction without a difference. Let's look at the people here. This is why I really have no sympathy.

He's pointing to one of the guys helping another victim out. He's just a guy wearing glasses and a black shirt. I have glasses on the picture on the right. Look at his hair. Shaved on the side. Looks like a freaking sodomite. Some sodomite. Is he suggesting that he's got a gay haircut? I guess so.

Is he suggesting that the man who is helping an injured person is less of a person who deserves to have tragedy and horror inflicted upon him? Using the photo of him helping an injured person, he deserves that because his haircut might be gay?

Because he used a number four on the sides. Yes. Look at the woman on the left. You can tell just by looking at them what kind of people these are. They're all... Yeah, they're concert goers. That's what they are.

They're concert goers. They're human beings that enjoy live music. Oh, yeah, I love gay people. Oh, yeah. I got a lot of guy friends. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Let's look at this article here. Ariana Grande goes on a split of filled rant about homophobia. Look at this picture. You just tell by looking at the picture, looking at the face, looking at the eyes of this girl, that she is a nasty, evil woman.

She's supposed to be a nasty, evil woman. How fucking what? She's 23, 23. I don't know about Ariana Grande, but Ariana Kelly. Yeah.

She does not look like an evil person. Thelot of babylon here's the thing man like what does an evil person look like that's that is your shoe bat okay you got me yeah yeah yeah but like a unibrow dipshit sitting in his fucking mom's room wearing a fucking cheap polo i would never look at theodore shoe bat and say you look evil but i would listen to a two minute rant and say you're evil yeah right because all you had to do is open your mouth all you had to do was say your shitty garbage useless outdated beliefs and i immediately knew you were an awful human being something is genuinely wrong with you right you're you're somebody who is someone who needs help more than anything else.

Or you're just a provocateur who doesn't actually believe this stuff. You just want views. Yeah. Or he's just so afraid of his own sexuality. Doesn't matter. Both of those things, whether you're a provocateur saying this shit

just to get views or you believe it. Equally responsible for your hate-filled bigotry. Shitty, shitty thing that you said. It's not human intelligence! Tom, I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. I just want to do a little to Alex Jones here. Alright, this is from Right Wing Watch. Alex Jones retracts

comments accusing Chobani of hiring migrant rapists. It's a big claim. I want to read a little bit. Chobani's a yogurt company. They are. What do you use the rapists for? Forget it. What do you use the migrants for? It's yogurt. What are they they out picking the yogurts

well it is greek yogurt oh that explains all the hair in that swarthy yogurt so what we have is a la times report that says that uh he was going to he's going to settle a defamation lawsuit i want to read a little bit of what happened. So Jones, it says in this article, Jones has a YouTube channel of more than two million subscribers. And he he published a video and promoted on Twitter with a headline that read Idaho yogurt maker caught importing migrant rapists. The target he targeted Chobani when a five year old girl was assaulted. The story spread through right wing media that the attackers were 14, 10 and seven and were from refugee families.

This false narrative pushed by Jones included the involvement of Syrians, rape and urinating in the victim's mouth. Did they rape the mouth and then urinate? I don't understand. Jones linked it along with some unrelated cases of tuberculosis to Chobani. All of it was untrue. A few weeks ago, Jones had dug in his heels when Chobani filed the lawsuit. And this is a quote from him. You just ran into a Texan, Jones.

Hold on. You just ran into a Texan, Jones said. So get ready because we are never backing down and our audience is never backing down. And this is Jones from InfoWars. I just want to play this little clip for you. During the week of April 10th, 2017, certain statements were made on the InfoWars Twitter feed and YouTube channel regarding Shabani LLC that I now understand to be wrong. The tweets and video have now been retracted and will not be reposted. On behalf of Infowars, I regret that we mischaracterized Shabani, its employees, and the people of Twin Falls, Idaho the way we did.

I will never back down. Here is a complete backing. What I mean to say is I dug my heels in and my lawyers told me to read this. We'll never back down here is a uh complete backing what i what i mean to say is i dug my heels in and my lawyers told me to read this we'll never back down wait a minute what's that money talks i just love i you know i don't have a lot to say about it other than i love that he has to roll shit back but i'm also kind of appalled that he can say shit like this and then get away with it. Because he, I mean,

essentially got away with it. And then, of course, Were they dropping a lawsuit? I think so. One of the things, one of the things, too, that you can't erase from the jury's mind

they heard something. I know, right? And isn't this just another example of Big Yogurt just steamrolling the little guy? Steamrolling him in their mouth. I'm pro-truth, not probiotics. God damn it.

You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers. I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. I love this story. I love this story, Cecil. This is from churchandstate.org.uk. I don this story. I love this story, Cecil. This is from churchandstate.com or.org.uk.

I don't know. Zimbabwean pastor claims to have God's direct phone number. Here's why I love this story. I love the word direct in it. I love the idea that, like, I love the idea that, like, oh, when I call, I don't get God's secretary. I don't get God's voicemail. God doesn't just text me. We're not on some fucking messaging system.

Uh-uh, motherfucker. I got his direct line, not his indirect line. Because God is a telephone. What did God do before the invention of the telephone? I was just waiting for somebody to build one. I had to make Alexander Graham Bell. I got an iPhone 11 and a half up here. If you'd like to talk to God in English.

Oh, who am I kidding? It's only English. It's only English. If you press any other keys right now, you'll be struck by lightning. Bar continuo en espanol, go to hell. I think the worst part is when God drunk texts you. Right? Why don't you come back?

I miss you. You're right. You miss so much to me. You remember when you read the Lord's Prayer? This goes back, though, I think, to one of the things. Who was it that said it?

When George Bush talks to God, nobody cares, but if he talked to God through his hair dryer, there would be a big deal. Was it Hitch? Yeah, I think so, right? This is a hair dryer. This is a hair dryer. I mean, nobody cares, but if he talked to God through his hair dryer, there would be a big deal. Was it Hitch? Yeah, I think so, right? This is a hair dryer, man.

I mean, this is, I mean, when you everybody, it's not crazy that he talks to God. It's not crazy, right? Like, we live in a world, Tom, where if he were to say I talk to God, no one would even blink an eye at the story. Right. Zimbabwean pastor says he talks

to God is not a story. That's not a story. It's not a story. It's because he uses a device. I know. And because everybody else has the Bluetooth. And somehow the more plausible way to talk to people across a long distance makes it less plausible. That's the best part of it. Like who assigned him the number?

Like the phone company is like the phone company give you a number? I want 000-0001. I don't want an area code. I was going to say, what is his area code? I don't know. He's rocking the 845, motherfucker. Exactly.

He's got his own. I'm in the 001 up here, bitches. It's actually a 976 number. You have to pay $2.99 a minute to talk to him. Wait a minute. Maybe his number is 8675309. I'll tell you what. You call me a

976. God's hot. I'll tell you what I'm wearing. And it's always a toga. You know what it is? For a good time call. And then that's the number. Sometimes I just go into the bathroom accident and I just feel a little horny

right on the wall. I feel like there's a lot of lonely people that could use a helping hand if you know what I mean. Yeah. It's got to be a regular phone though because a Bluetooth in Zimbabwe

is like a literal Bluetooth. It's like your tooth is blue and it's going to fall out. Like that's what it is in Zimbabwe. Is he trying to call? He's like, hang on, it's on the charger. Hang on. You think you can get a better battery out of Jesus phone? I gotta take it away from my ear so I can look at the

calendar. Give me a second. It keeps slipping through Jesus' hand. He's just like, fuck. Fuck, it keeps dropping this fucking thing. Actually, Jesus has it in his hand and the cord runs through his hand. He could have it plugged in the whole time. So we'd like to thank

our most current patrons. Of course, we want to thank all our patrons for their generous support, but we want to thank our most current patrons, Emma, Benjamin, Carly, Tov, Christy Ann,

John, JT, and Ben. Thanks so very much for your generous support. We did have another goal on there, and it's for me to quit my job. It's a pie-in-the-sky goal. I like this goal, though, guys. Let's get Cecil to that goal. I mean, he works really hard,

and I don't. I would quit my job if we made it to a dollar amount that's on there so you want to check it out and if you've been holding off and you think that that is your motivating factor that's one thing that might motivate you to donate we do appreciate of course all the donations

that come in that you guys make Glitter Hill Studios possible you make this show possible so thank you very much absolutely we got a message from Ernesto all the donations that come in that you guys make Glitter Hill Studios possible. You make this show possible. So thank you very much. Absolutely. We got a message from Ernesto and Ernesto has been going through the backlog and sent us a nice message about his, uh, his travels through there and wanted to let us know that, that, uh, that we make it so it feels like he's not alone. And so we want to thank you Ernesto for listening. And you know, he mentions too, that, you know, he lives in Chicago and wants to do another meetup.

We do too. We got to get what we're hoping to do is do a meetup and try to plan it with one of the people, one of the big atheist groups here. Maybe see if we can fly someone else in to give a talk and do a meetup as well at Lagunitas. Cause we had a great time at that Lagunitas thing. And that's such a cool place to go.

It's a really neat venue. It's a cool venue. So we're going to try to go to the Lagunitas tap. And that's such a cool place to go. It's a really neat venue. It's a cool venue. So we're going to try to go to the Lagunitas taproom, but they won't let us do it. They won't let like just jokers do it. You got to be kind of a non-profit. But we might be able to tack on to the coattails of one of those atheist groups or the humanist group here in Chicago.

And if we can sweeten the deal by helping facilitate a speaker to come to town, maybe we can sort of bundle it all together. Yeah. I think, you know, last time we did something, we did something, you know, at a public park outside and, uh, you know, that's, that's a weather thing in Chicago. You don't count on the weather. You don't, it was cold as shit. We had a lot of people, we had a lot of people, but it was still cold and cold and shitty. So we want to, we definitely want to do something.

We'll let you know. We got a message from Crystal and Crystal sent in this story from the Washington Post. Anthony Weiner pleaded guilty to sexting a teen girl when then his estranged wife filed for divorce, like she should,

when he's texting a 15-year-old. What the fuck? What the, like, this guy clearly, like, it was all? What the, like this guy clearly like, it was all fun and games. Like when it was just like his mistress or whatever. When it's just him texting a dick, a dick pic to all a Twitter or whatever.

I think it's a wiener pic. Yeah. I mean, how is it not? I guess it is because you, you know, when you talk about the size of it, it's either a cock or it's a wiener.

I feel like it certainly has a first name. Yeah. or it's a wiener. I feel like it certainly has a first name. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great to set up a GoFundMe to buy him an Oscar Mayer wienermobile and deliver it to his home as a gift? That would be amazing.

Of course, he'd have to notify all his neighbors about himself in that wienermobile. You'd have to knock on all the doors. Do you have any young people here? I have to notify on all the doors. Do you have any young people here? I have to notify everyone in the neighborhood that I'm fucking a potential sex offender. If he had that,

would it just be the mobile? Someone should make him batarangs that are just bent dicks that he feels. This guy's a twat. He's a twat. And he throws at them. This guy's a, he's a twat. He's a piece of shit. He's a twat, and he fucking, he bowed out because he's a fucking, he doesn't even know how to use Twitter, so he shouldn't be in government.

Get out of here. And you're a horrible person. You're a horrible person. You fucking, you're texting a, you're sexting a 15-year-old. Get the fuck out of here. Why does that grown man even have a 15-year-old's fucking phone number? Exactly. This is an interesting message from Javier.

He says, people like Kevin Swanson think that the end state of socialism is Soviet communism, and the end state of homosexuality is sexual reassignment. That's interesting. I mean, I don't know if that's what he thinks, but I'm sure that there are some people out there that think that homosexuality and being gay is a stepping stone to eventually becoming trans or something right which is which is bizarre and belies a total lack of understanding of both homosexuality and transgender yeah because when you're when you're when you when you level up as a gay person you become a cleric that That's how this works. And trans people are wizards when they level up. We're warlocks?

Is there a difference? What's the difference between a wizard and a warlock? It's how they want to be perceived, Tom. It's whatever they decide. It's whatever pronoun you use. It's their pronoun. They get to decide. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend Zay. We got a message from Dawn, and Dawn says that she's a lifelong atheist but could have spent

years at the vatican i guess there's a the basilica she said is 30 minutes of action well geez dawn what are you doing in there man 30 minutes 30 minutes she's i'll tell you what that's i feel like i got 27 extra minutes i I'm just saying. 30 minutes. But I guess the Vatican Museum, which I missed. I was on a tour, right? I did the thing that you do when you're an American and you don't know shit about shit. You take a tour.

And that's what I did. I took a tour. Oh, I thought you were going to say eat a lot and criticize. I did do that too. Okay. All right. They're not mutually exclusive. No, they're not. I did a tour that went to a bunch of different places in Rome in a single day. One of them happened to be the Vatican. Tom, we got a message about demons from someone with a lot of letters and numbers and dashes in their name. Yeah.

I think that's super fancy. My guess is it's military because it's all just fucking acronyms. It says, during my deconversion, I looked through a lot of the Apocrypha. And it turns out the Abrahamics, Abrahamics? There's hammocks involved? I'm much more interested. I love Abrahamics. They're so comfortable.

They're made out of beards. It's so great. They're made out of Jew beards? An Abrahamic is made out of Jew beards. So it turns out the Abrahamics Christians and Jews in particular developed separate fields of study angeology and more relevant here demonology

one of the classification systems they use for demons sets it up like a nation with Satan as the king of hell there are dukes of hell earls of hell etc and these are all command and they all command legions of lesser demons so yes they are supposedly demons with different amounts of

power and many have powers different from the others that shit is crazy it is crazy people who believe that are fucking nuts that's fucking that's that fucking CW show supernatural that's what that is

fucking vampire the Masquerade. God, anyone that believes that shit is a fucking idiot. Personally. We got a message from Julie and Julie says that the College of the Ozarks, and this is what Julie says, I didn't research this at all,

so I don't know if any of this is true, but Julie says that the College of the Ozarks, there's no tuition and you work for the school to get your education. However, if you're caught doing anything of sexual nature, they'll kick you out. It's free? College without sex? It's free? You just work? You just work

for the college? What do you do? Like, just, like, fucking, like, mop or something? Like, I don't know. Do you teach? Strip mine a mountain? Do you teach? Like, how can it be free if you're, like... Like, how much... Like, what kind of jobs are they making you do where they can afford to give you a free education? Blow jobs. Prostitution.

I'm just saying you're given a massage. Yeah. Right. And you... The A. Yeah. Easy A. That's a happy ending.

So we got a message from Dan, and Dan was talking about the Turkish embassy and their attack on the people of the United States. He says, you will see guns under the jackets of some people that cross the street from the embassy and no shots fired against the armed folks, assaulting unarmed people. Well, you got to admit the arms being armed is a deterrent to shooting right just ask north korea yeah right yeah but but i i your point was is well taken dan that that you know these were not just regular just anti-protesters these were these were thugs

with guns these were you know right and like you'd point out like if these have been just black dudes with guns beating up people be a big it'd be a big deal. Yeah, come on. We got a great image. I love this. A great image. And this is from Goat Skull who said, I saw this and immediately thought of politics over in the USA right now. This was making the rounds this week. I saw this in a couple of places, but it's hilarious.

We're going to put it on this episode show. It's episode 361. We got a message from Kyle and Kyle sent us an image of a Cocoa Puffs Neapolitan. It says, he says his question now it's Cocoa Puffs Neapolitan as strawberry, chocolate, and vanilla Cocoa Puffs. So gross.

And it says, now my question is, do you eat each puff individually? Do you try to spoon each flavor or, or scoop your spoon across the bowl? I think this is really easy. You just throw it in the garbage. Like, like you don't try to spoon each flavor or scoop your spoon across the bowl? I think this is really easy. You just throw it in the garbage. Like you don't try to eat it.

That's your mistake. That's a rookie mistake. I get it. I understand. You think Cocoa Puffs equals food. It's not food. It's a trick. Think of it like decon.

It's like a rat poison that you're not supposed to eat. It's a trick. I can't imagine a world so bleak I eat Cocoa Puffs ice cream scoops. That's a bucket reality. That's what I mean. It's like it's walking dead times and like you get

into that fucking convenience store and it's fucking destroyed. Shit everywhere. The only thing still faced on the shelving is the Cocoa Puffs ice cream scoops. Is the Cocoa Puffs. Yeah. Nobody has touched them.

And you have to eat them with sour milk out of a bowl made out of a zombie stomach. You have to like scoop a zombie stomach out, pour the cereal in there and eat them while they lay down on the ground. It's the only way to improve the flavor. To be honest. Yeah. We got an M. We got a message. Oh, this is great.

This is from Jake. and Jake sent in... There's a guy who does these Jim Baker videos on YouTube. It's a YouTube station called Super Deluxe. It's got like 700,000 people that know who it is, so I'm sure people

have seen these before. He just edits these things like a Lynch film and they're fucking amazing. So we'll put an app, we'll put on this episode, this video, if you want to, it's like five minutes long, but it's fucking hilarious. It's great. It's laugh out loud. And it's weird. It's fucking super weird. Like it's like crazy weird and it's great stuff. We got a song from Null. And this is something that he made. He said, I hear an old hymn called Oh, for a thousand tongues to sing.

Oh, for a thousand tongues to be The member in my job The glory of holy seven state For my rigid long black car. Somewhat rigid. I mean, let's be... That's great, Noel. Thanks so much.

That's funny. So we, again, encourage people to check out our other show, Citation Needed, that we do with the scathing atheist guys. Where would we find that? We find that at citationpod.com. You can also find it at iTunes. We would appreciate if you are somebody who likes this show and you want to check that show out,

we would, of course, encourage you to check it out. We think it's a great show. Go, especially if you're an iTunes user, go on iTunes, subscribe to the show, and then if you can, give us a rating. We really appreciate it. It helps us raise the visibility of that show to a new audience, and we'd really appreciate it. It helps us raise the visibility of that show to new audience, and we'd really appreciate it. Also, if

you'd like to rate us, Cognitive Dissonance, we would appreciate a rating as well. So if you like the show, if you're fans of the show, and you want to rate us, we of course encourage that. If you don't like the show, I have no idea how you just made through an hour plus of this show. Thanks so much for all

the ratings that we've gotten. And we appreciate, of course, everybody who's tuned in to Citation Needed. So that's going to wrap it up for this week. We're going to leave you like we always do with the Skeptic's Creed. Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubblebubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead, pan, sales pitch,

late night info-docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls, Bigfoot, Yeti, aliens, churches, mosques and synagogues, temples, dragons, giant worms, Atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches, wizards, vaccine nuts, shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, doublespeak, stigmata, nonsense. conspiracy, double-speak stigmata nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands. Bloody, evidential, conclusive. Doubt even this. The opinions and information provided on this podcast are intended for entertainment purposes only.

All opinions are solely that of Glory Hole Studios, LLC. Cognitive dissonance makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information and will not be liable for any errors, damages, or butthurt arising from consumption. All information is provided on an as-is basis. No refunds. Produced in association with the local dairy council and viewers like you. we had a listener lee sent us two two two containers of liquor two i think one for each of us oh i think i. I gotta tell you. I don't know what it's called. Like, DeJarling

Limited or something. Let me look. Hold on a second. It's a terrible movie. It's called Jungle Vrvravel. Like, DeJungle Viral. I can't pronounce this. There's a D and a J. They need to fucking contact Pat Sajak and buy a bottle. It's in Swedish, and it is a...

It's described on Google as a super salty licorice. Let that sink in for a second. I love licorice. I know that I'm in the minority. I like black licorice. A lot of people don't like it. I know. I like that shit.

It just reminds me of being a kid. This is covered with a weird salt powder. I spat it out. I never behaved like this in my life. I got to describe this. Tom opens up this licorice thing, and he pops one in his mouth, and then he literally convulsed,

screeched, and then he spit in the studio, with a carpeted studio. He spit his wet, gross licorice out of his mouth onto the floor. Then he started licking the backs of his hands to try to get rid of the stuff. Drank two swigs of beer, screeched again, then licked his hands. I thought he was going to start cleaning himself like a cat.

Like, you know, when a cat licks the back of its paw and wipes down its head. Like, I totally thought he was going to start doing that. He screeched, ran around the partition, grabbed another thing. I think it was a piece of chocolate. Hastily ate it the whole time screaming, yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck.

Seriously, it is so bad. It elicited a genuine panic response. It was a panic response. It was. Your face. I fell over laughing. I was laughing.. I could, I fell over laughing. I was laughing. Tom was like, imagine somebody like,

like burned their genitals and like this running back and forth. Like that's the face he made was just like this. It's, you know, your first year in shock, then there's horror, then there's disbelief. Then there's bargaining. Like you went through all the stages of grief.

Like, it's so bad. I had, I, Elizabeth Kubler Ross, that shit. It is, it is so bad i had elizabeth kubler ross that shit it is it is that bad like there was it was like being a kid like you ever remember when you were a kid and then you did something like shitty happened and your mind just shut the fuck off and you're like and you just panic i remember i remember when i was a kid i was climbing was climbing up a ladder to go on like a water slide that we had in our pool.

And I got stung by a wasp on my hand. And I just fucking lost it because I was a little kid. I was like four or five. And I let go of the ladder and I fell off the thing. And I ran twice around the swimming pool. Just like because your body's like, I don't know what to do. Just run. Just panic.

It is seriously. Yeah. This was the worst thing that's ever happened to my face. It shut my mind down. It's a panic-inducing food. It is the worst. I can't overstate how bad it is. I am not fucking around.

I would drink a container of eggnog. Yeah. Before I would consume one of those. I had one right after Tom did. Chew and swallow? Can you imagine chewing and swallowing that?

So Tom had one and then I was ready for a horrible experience. Tom was shocked by it. I was so shocked. Tom was shocked and awed by this candy. I tried it afterwards, and it was disgusting. Like, it was genuinely disgusting, but not shockingly so, because I saw how badly Tom reacted to it.

So I tasted it. I was like, this is really awful. And I chewed it, and I didn't swallow it, but I tasted it. I got all of the outer coating of salt powder off of it. So I tasted it. I was like, this is really awful. And I chewed it and I didn't swallow it, but I tasted it. I got all of the outer coating of salt powder off of it. Touched the inner part with mine. I was like, this is not tasty or good or worthwhile or

actually it's scarring. And then I spit it out. It tastes like hobo ass. And then you gave me chaser chocolate right afterwards. You need something. It's not even good chocolate, but it's like you're gonna right afterwards. You need something. Yeah. Yeah. It's not even good chocolate, but it's like, you're going to, you're going to need that.

That was bad. That was genuinely bad. That's a challenge food. It is. I, you know, it's one of those things that you would, that we should save just to have people try it. Yeah. Well, it'll never go bad because it's a, it's a, it's a sugar food coated in a salt.

Yeah. It's an apocalypse food. That will last. That's Jim Baker. But can you imagine opening one of the buckets and it's just that? Yeah, that's a Ragnarok food. That's what that is.