Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 404: American Atheists Convention 2018

Episode Date: March 12, 2018

Stories from the week Thank you to David Silverman for being on the show! President of American Atheists, Author of , Creator & Chair of the 2012 Reason Rally.

This episode of Cognitive Dissonance is brought to you by our patrons. You fucking rock. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. recording live from glory hole studios in chic, this is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political.

And there is no welcome mat. This is the lost episode. episode, the error not returned. You know where I was going? So 404, this is not likely to be found. Don't search for it. We're not even going to put any search terms, key terms, hashtags, uh, for this episode, but we are, uh, going to have David Silverman here as our special guest. So David, welcome.

Hey, thanks for having me on the show, guys. I appreciate being here. Absolutely. David Silverman, I think everybody in the community probably knows David Silverman is the president of the American Atheists. Now, he didn't win the general. He didn't actually get more votes. Electoral College got David in. Through the Electoral College, he was able to secure his position.

Big pull in California for David. Gerrymandering is a good thing. Gerrymandering is a real thing. It is in Oklahoma where we're having a convention, I'll tell you that much. Holy shit. Man, I'm just glad you hired all those illegal immigrants to vote. They may not be the atheists that exist, but they're the atheists we need. How does that work?

Just hiring the illegal immigrants to vote is to having them vote several times in multiple different states under assumed names of dead people. Absolutely. All those Catholic Mexicans came in and voted for you. Well, thanks again for agreeing to be on our show. We want to talk to you about the recent death of Billy Graham. It's not, I know we all want to celebrate. Anyway, Billy Graham. No, that's bad.

We don't celebrate when somebody dies. We don't celebrate that, Tom. That's rude. You mourn. You mourn. I don't celebrate and I don't mourn, but I do mourn the legacy that he leaves behind. And I think it's our responsibility to make sure that the legacy that he leaves behind is accurate and that he's not some elevated super martyr of the beautiful Christian American race.

all when he died. But I do hope that people remember the disgrace that he was and the negative force that he was on American politics and American culture. I want to ask about that idea of not, and I know I said it in jest, but not celebrating when someone dies. But if somebody is causing harm, and I think we can argue here, and I think we will in a moment, that Billy Graham was not, he was not a man who did not cause harm. Right. And if somebody is causing harm to people, all jokes aside, like, like, is it, isn't it okay to celebrate? Maybe not celebrate, but certainly, certainly breathe a sigh of relief.

But I mean, but honestly, why not be celebratory? Like, look, that harm is gone. People will be better off now. Right. There will be like this, this guy who is preaching to an incredibly large audience, right? Billy Graham has been called America's preacher. He's one of the best known evangelists in American history. He's got an incredible following.

He's spoken to incredibly influential people. His views matter more than our views. Yeah, but he was already not a threat when he died. I celebrated more when Scalia died than when Billy Graham died. He was already... So we can celebrate. We can celebrate when people... No, I'm being serious. We can celebrate when shitty people die. Yeah. Like, can we do that?

You feel how you feel, folks. You can't... Yeah. Certainly, when people who are doing bad die, there is a sense of relief. And I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling what you feel about that. I think that it's the responsibility of the human who, as far as the legacy that you leave behind, and when people die, people are going to feel relief, people are going to feel happiness and sadness, and that's all a reflection on the individual. And yeah, I certainly felt a certain sense of relief, but not a lot.

I mean, I would have felt more relief if he had died 20 years ago. I would have felt more relief if he had died before doing all the damage that he did to the American fabric. It would have helped if he had died a long time ago. I think if there was a God, he would have died a long time ago. But in reality, it's, it's, it's certainly, you know, you, if you feel what you feel, we have to allow ourselves to feel the authentic feelings that we feel. And, you know, it, there's no shame in however you feel. I think you can do what you want and you can feel what you want. And I think that, yeah, I mean, I can't tell you that I wasn't happy when Scalia died. I can't tell you that. Okay. Cause there was a big part of me that was, I celebrated to a point.

You don't celebrate. Yeah. I was super excited. Gorsuch was going to get in. I was very excited. I was so excited. I was like, man, what we need is Neil Gorsuch. And I can't wait for them to procrastinate to put somebody in the, for nine months. But anyway, yeah, I'm excited. I was like, man, what we need is Neil Gorsuch. And I can't wait for them to procrastinate to put somebody in the for nine for nine months. But anyway, I'm sorry. Interrupted you. Go. No, go ahead. No, go ahead.

That wasn't procrastination, my friend. That was delaying. That was the long game. That was right. That was being that was Mitch McConnell being somebody I won't mourn when he dies either. Yeah, that's for sure. So, Billy Graham, you said, you know, it would have been 20 years ago. It would have been more influential had he passed.

What I want to talk about what you think his legacy is. But I think also, do you think when these guys, you know, when somebody like this passes, is more weight and attention given to the ideas of somebody who has previously sort of faded away from the global stage or the national stage? So in other words, is he going to experience a kind of renaissance in his death in terms of like his ideas or his glorification? Well, there's the the other variable to that is the number of people who are going to profit from it in one way or another. Right. I think Franklin Graham is going going to profit from it in one way or another, right? I think Franklin Graham is going to definitely profit from his father's death. I think Donald Trump is going to definitely profit from Billy Graham's positive legacy and laying in honor in the rotunda.

I think there are a lot of people who are going to profit from this, and so they will take the most positive things that he ever said and blow them up and put them up as a martyr. In doing so, they'll garner all the Christian rights support, and back off of the stuff that he said that really hurt the country. are allowed to have a one-sided legacy. I think it threatens this country when people are called things like America's pastor. I think it threatens freedom. I think it threatens the separation of church and state. I think it threatens the fabric of America when a pastor is elevated to a point of honor simply for being a pastor, simply for being a purveyor of lies that people believed en masse. This is not a good person. Billy Graham was not a good person. He was not a positive force for America. He was a positive force for the worst of America. He was a positive force for the people who are still supporting President Trump. But he is not a positive force for us. He's not a positive force for America. And I really wish Paul Ryan and the other members of Congress had decided differently

with the elevation of this, well, this professional scam artist. So why do you think he was such a bad guy? Like, what is it about his legacy? How do you think he should be remembered? This is a man who had power. This is a man who had the government's ear. This is a man who had the president's ear. And this is a man who spoke against Jews. This is a man who spoke against gays. This is a man who spoke against women. This is a man who spoke against atheists. This is a

man who spoke against everybody who didn't align with his Christian values. This is a man who pushed our presidents in a direction away from the separation of church and state personally, over and over again, and with vigor and with money and with power. This is a man, this is a person who could have been a force for good, but instead chose to be a force for evil, a force against the separation of church and state and religious equality and feminism in favor of a misogynistic, patriarchal lie that made him a lot of money and power. And this is the epitome of somebody using religion for the detriment of their fellow citizen for their personal gain. This is not a good person.

And it's a shame that we're talking about somebody who is now lying in honor with the same honors as Rosa Parks. That's a horrible thing. Crazy. as a black woman activist hero from the civil rights era is, is ridiculous. That's like the opposite of what she was. And he got the same honor. It's ridiculous. And it's insulting. I mean, it's insulting to everybody who,

who, who thought that lying in honor was a great honor for, for Ms. Parks. Now that honor has been sullied. What do you think that this is sort of Trump paying the Christian right back for the evangelical vote?

Of course. That's all this is. And paying in advance for their support in the future as he goes through the Russia investigation and all the other crimes that he's going to be... I know. All the shit he's going to be. I know.

All the shit he's going to do. Everything else that he's done. This is like, this is his indulgences. This is the evangelical format of indulgences. I'm going to buy ahead of time so that I can, I'm going to prepay this credit card. But I mean, think about the way of what he's doing to the school systems, what he's doing to the science system. Everything that he is doing is hurting the separation of church and state. And this man doesn't give a crap about the separation of church and state.

He doesn't care about Christianity. This is not a Christian. He was asked what his favorite line from the Bible was, and he couldn't name John 3.16. He couldn't name Genesis 1. He had no idea in his first interview. This man is not a believer. He is totally, my personal opinion, an atheist. And we have to own this, and we have to see this man for what he is, an atheist with no morals. Unfortunately, he's the worst we have to offer. He's an atheist using religion for his personal gain. And here it

is laid out in front of you. You think he, you think Billy Graham ever did anything for Donald Trump, Billy Graham, Donald Trump barely knew to Billy Graham existed. Yeah. Donald Trump didn't give a squat. Billy Donald Trump never listened to a word of Billy Graham and said, wow, I got to do what that guy says. That never happened. It's interesting, though, but Trump has had priests and pastors come to the White House and lay hands on him. They've surrounded him. They've prayed around him. And if you listen to the TV preachers that are now taking the mantle of what Billy Graham was, you know, you listen to Baker, you listen to, I know several others,

and they'll all say he's anointed by God and how holy he is and how, you know, how we need to protect him. That's the, that's the plan. And it's not a new plan. Lots of people, lots of rulers and despots and,

and really bad people in charge have used religion to legitimize themselves and to protect themselves from onslaught. And this is what Trump is doing. He gave Bessie DeVos to the Christian right. He didn't care about the education system. He put in a religious right person. He put in a religious right person everywhere he can. Jeff Sessions, look at him.

Scott Pruitt. Scott Pruitt. This is not something he cares about. He cares about the ramifications. Yeah, right. Look at Pence. Look, I mean, Pence is the most religious right person you can get. That's his vice president.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the scary thing. That's the Donald Trump insurance policy. Because I don't know. You know, the big debate is who would be worse, Trump or Pence? And the answer is, I don't know.

Yeah. God. I feel like I do know though. I feel like, I feel like Trump is worse just because he's so unknown. I just, he's, he's, he's such a bizarre unknown quantity. Like at least Pence is a politician. You know who he is. He's horrible, but you know who he is. You know what he stands for. You can predict to some degree what he wants. Yeah, I feel like he's at least to some point predictable, and people who are predictable are easier to understand and sometimes even easier to control because their motivations are more out there, whereas Trump's only motivation is I want to win.

Whatever winning means in the moment, winning, that version of winning for him constantly evolves and changes. Absolutely. That's the part that, that's the part that freaks me out. I think the real thing that we need to keep our eyes on is the 2018 and the 2020 elections. I think what we really have to understand is that this battle, we just got kicked in the teeth. Okay.

We had eight good years of Obama and everybody was complacent and everybody was confident and we got kicked in the teeth, okay? We had eight good years of Obama, and everybody was complacent, and everybody was confident, and we got kicked in the teeth. And I think instead of saying who would be better, should Trump get impeached, I think we should look at Trump and Pence as a package and say, okay, we have to fight this in four years. We have to fight this in 2020. And I think the atheist population, which is about 27%, undervoted dramatically at about 14% of the voting population.

Is the atheist community that high? Yeah. Well, yes. If you actually put the correct definitions to people, yes, we're 27% of the population. I write about this in my book, Fighting God, where you can actually look at the people. The problem is that 90% of America's atheists don't call themselves atheists. And this is our problem. If you don't have a belief in a God, you're an atheist. If you don't have a belief in a God and you hate the word atheist, you're still an atheist. And you still have the social responsibility to call yourself an atheist.

And I go into this in detail in the book as to why it's important for atheists to call themselves atheists. And one of them is that people look at the charts and they say, oh, we're not 27% atheists. We're 2% atheists and 4% agnostic and 3% secular other and 4% secular rationalistic humanists and 3%. These are all atheists. And we have to understand that. And we have to understand that. And we have to understand and own the fact that when we are atheists and we don't call ourselves atheists, we make the job easier for the Donald Trumps of this world. We need to start calling ourselves what we are. Stop yielding to the bullshit that religion has pushed on us since we were kids. A lot of people don't realize, especially atheists,

that religion heaped on a whole bunch of indoctrination on us as children. And when you dismiss the God, you're not done. The rest of the indoctrination is still in there, and it includes lies such as religion is good, religion has a place, religion has a purpose, religion is worthy of protection. And because of that indoctrination that we don't even know about, we stick to these euphemisms like, oh, well, I'm sure about lots of things, but I'm an agnostic about the man in the sky. I'm a secular rationalistic humanist. I say those words because nobody knows what they are, so I can buy. And folks, you know, the time in our lives when we can just sit back and yield to that pressure, yield to that indoctrination is over. We need to really understand that religion is shit and deserves to die.

It really does. It needs to die. to die. It really does. It needs to die. And good people fight religion to kill it dead, just like good people fight against all other lies and cons and scams that hurt a people and kill it dead. And this is something that we need to understand. And when we say, oh, well, I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic, I'm a secular this, I'm a that, I'm a none, I'm an unbeliever. You are just kowtowing to the religious indoctrination. You're helping religion when you do that. Because let me put the bow on this, okay? 90%, and I'm speaking from statistically valid

quantitative data that I have in my book, Fighting God. I only speak, when I speak quantitatively, I know how to use quantitative data. 90% approximately of Americans know what an atheist is, or at least they have a functional definition of what an atheist is. 90%. That means if you say you're an atheist, 90% of the time, you'll, for the most part, be understood. And I want to make this clear, very, very clear folks, 90% of this country does not have a functional definition of the word free thinker or humanist. That means you have a 90% chance of being misunderstood if you call yourself a humanist or a free thinker. But so many of us do because it's more socially acceptable, but it's more socially acceptable because 90% of the country doesn't know what it

means right you're just going to obfuscate your truth that you know so that nobody calls you out and you don't have that awkward you know and that awkward stuff that awkward stuff is the activism right that's the change i am wearing i don't you can't see it right now but i'm wearing a very atheist shirt right now and i was just out uh shooting some darts, and the waitress came up and took my picture of my shirt and sent it to her friends. Because my shirt is obvious. My shirt doesn't say free thinker on it. My shirt doesn't say humanist on it, okay? People respond to what they understand and what they know, and when you hide behind words, you're pretending you're communicating, right? Oh, well, I fit into the secular rationalistic humanist word, so I'm going to call myself that.

And you're pretending that you're selling the truth, but you're not. You're hiding from the truth. You're pretending to communicate when you're not really communicating, because 90% of the people that you're talking to have no idea what you're saying, and the 10% that do are already inside the movement. So you're just giving an inside joke instead of being an activist. And activism is what we need right now, folks. We need atheists, people who don't have a belief in a God to call themselves atheists. If you don't have a belief in a God, you're an atheist.

If you don't have a belief in a God and are well aware of the fact that you don't know everything in the universe, you are an atheist. If you don't have a belief in a God and like the secular trappings of some of the religion that you were brought in, you are an atheist. If you don't like the word atheist, but you don't have a belief in a God, you're still an atheist and have a social responsibility to say it because that's the word that people understand. What do you say to Neil deGrasse Tyson? Neil deGrasse Tyson has many times said that he is not an atheist. He has pushed back on that term. He has pulled away from it and has reared away from it. What do you say to Neil deGrasse Tyson? He is wrong. He is wrong.

And I love the man and I am a big fan of his, and you can be a bit, and I, you know, nobody is perfect, and Dr. Tyson is a brilliant guy. Dr. Tyson is not an atheist activist. He is a science activist. He is making a call to push science instead of atheism, but in doing so, he is yielding to the people that are pushing against science by trying to legitimize people who are religious. And that's the wrong answer. What he should be doing is saying, this is how cool science is. Religion is holding it back. I am devoid of all the religion and you should be too. And that's how it should be done because that's moral, that's ethical, and that's

communication. And by the way, that's also the truth. And that's communication. And by the way, that's also the truth. Yeah. Can I ask you, I mean, my guess is that that is thought of as being more pragmatic, right? And I agree with you on a principle standpoint. But my feeling is like Neil deGrasse Tyson has become this sort of beloved science figure across a lot of boundaries. I'm not sure he'd be able to cross and purvey his message if he were openly atheist. I understand that, and I see that point, and I acknowledge that point,

and that has not been tested, and it is assuming that Christianity is worse than it is. It's giving away to what is essentially Christian terrorism. Don't tell anybody you're an atheist or you'll lose your career is not a reason to yield to that kind of terrorism. That's wrong for him to do that. He is a famous man. He is a well-established man. But do you think he would have gotten as famous? I'm just playing here.

I don't know the answer. It's a great question. It hasn't stopped Bill Nye. I didn't know Bill Nye was openly atheist. I didn't know. I'm pretty openly atheist. I didn't know. I'm pretty sure he is. He spoke at the Reason Rally. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess you would kind of have to be. You don't get invited to the stage. I'm not pushing on it.

Just like I said, I'm curious. I didn't know. Let me ask you a question, Dave. What do you think about a people who would say, well, look, you know,

religion does do a lot of good in the world. It feeds some hungry children. It helps out and, you know, feeds the homeless. I know that atheists do the same thing, but, you know, religious groups do this sort of thing and do help people out. What do you say to that? And I think that's just great, but that is the indoctrination talking, because the people are doing the food drives, not the religion. The people are helping the poor, not the religion. If religion was helping the poor, not the religion. If religion was helping the poor, there would be no multi-million dollar huge

megachurches everywhere. If religion was helping the poor, we would see no more poor, because religion would help. Religion has that much money. Yes, of course, religion can be used to unite people to do a common cause. But as you said, atheists do it too. So where is the actual value add for religion? They lie. That's what religion does. They lie. That's what religion is.

It is a lie. So if wonderful people can use religion to help the poor, then wonderful people can just help the poor without pushing the lie of God. So let me ask you a question. It's sort of related. There's been a lot going on in the atheist community lately, right? Where some of our sort of more prominent leaders have been embroiled in controversy. There have been some that have committed some, it sounds like some pretty bad actions. You're talking about the responsibility to activism. And I'm curious about your thoughts around if you're a leader in the atheist community,

and you clearly are, right? You're the president of the American Atheist. So you're a leader in this community. What responsibility do we have to call out our own or to comment on our own? We have a big responsibility for that. And we have a big responsibility for us to not protect those who do wrong. We have a big responsibility to, you know, the other side is, you know, don't convict without whatever. But I believe the victims and I believe multiple reports and I don't platform people who don't deserve to be platformed. And I think that's part of my responsibility. I think that we have as a group the responsibility to provide a welcoming atmosphere, an atmosphere free of harassment, an atmosphere free of hostility, an atmosphere that

welcomes all people of all gender expressions and all walks of life, except for those who are bigoted. And I think it's, you know, it's difficult when, it's difficult when people you like and respect do bad things. And, you know, it's still a real thing, though. And, you know, I'm very, very proud of the fact that American Atheists was the first, I believe, the first major organization in American atheism to pass or to create and to use a comprehensive code of conduct and a comprehensive sexual harassment policy with the resources dedicated to protect the convention attendees. And when I instituted that policy, like I said, we were the first to do it. When we instituted that, uh, certain people in the movement, um, didn't like it and certain people were vocal against it. And, um, isn't that crazy that people like push back on that?

And you know, that seems insane and and here's the thing folks uh some of those people don't come to our conventions anymore some of those people won't speak at our conventions and haven't spoken at our conventions since that policy was in vote but it was uh placed on in effect and i'm not a problem i don't have a problem with that can i ask you do you feel like there's like, like that we're in a time in our movement, you know, talking about activism and I, and I think, do you feel like there's a time that we're in a place in our movement where there's a real sharp schism that's, that's occurring? between the sort of folks who are on the side that you're kind of advocating, which is like, hey, there are some real issues. We need to address them. We need to call them out. We need to shine a light. We need to create safe places for people to go and explore ideas and to interact with each other. And then on the other side, there seems to be this

free speech protects the worst speech kind of folks that are like very, very aggressive. There's even like a tremendous number. I'm sure you're seeing it online too, of folks that are, you know, kind of claiming a mantle of atheist alt-right, for lack of a better term or terminology. The movement seems split right now. Do you get that same sense? And if so, so, how do you reconcile it? And it's hard because a lot of this is really reliant on nuance. When we're talking about the free speech argument, I think what I'm trying to do with American atheists is create an environment where speech is honored. do with American atheists is create an environment where speech is honored, but speech which,

frankly, is not productive to community, free speech which is not productive to just being nice. I'm not putting it on the dais. I'm not putting it on, okay? I have, the convention is coming up at the end of this month, March 29th through April 1st. And the unofficial theme for our convention is hearts plus brains minus assholes. And that's what we're doing at American Atheist. We're trying to, I'm not trying to stifle speech, but I am telling people that you should be nice if you come to an American Atheist Convention. You should be welcoming, and you should be good, and you should be not bigoted,

and not a freaking Nazi, and you should have empathy, and you should have compassion for your fellow human. And if you're a person who has done things that are anti-compassion and anti- empathy, well, I hope you get some compassion and get some empathy and then come to our convention. And redemption is a real thing. And it's important that we have redemption in our community because we have such a fractured community. So if somebody says something or does something or has an opinion that's, well, frankly, anti-humanistic or just unethical. They have to be allowed to come to their senses and come and hear the other side and be welcomed back. It is not okay to be a bad person, in my opinion.

It is not okay to help a bad person or to hide a bad person, in my opinion. And what is a bad person? hide a bad person, in my opinion. And what is a bad person? And again, it just comes down to my qualitative opinion, and our qualitative opinion as a collective body of being supportive and being nurturing and being welcoming to women and LGBT folks and LGBTQ folks and people of color. And if you're not welcoming to that, then you're not welcome at an American Atheist Convention. And if you're not a person who supports equality, then we're not going to be putting you up on stage. If you're a person who thinks that it's funny to send a rape tweet to somebody who's experienced sexual assault, we're not going to put you up on stage. And we hope you think about where you are and maybe get some compassion and empathy and then

come back. Because, yeah, we have a lot of schisms in this community. We have a lot of diverse ideas. And we don't have time for those things to break us up. And people are just kind of finding themselves and they're finding their way through their own ethics. And, you know, there's this concept of protection from being offended, which is not real, but how that's affecting other people, it is real. And then in that same argument, conflated with that same argument, is people who are using the free speech idea to be really bad people. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, that's not free. That, that is freedom of speech. And you're allowed to have that speech and you're allowed to say it and freedom of ideas, yada, yada, put it out there

and, and, and be prepared for the, for the backlash. Yep. It's not freedom of conference consequences. That's for sure. It's not freedom of consequence and it's not freedom of judgment, and it's not freedom to get on the American atheist stage and spew it. Yep, yep, absolutely not. So let me ask you this. So in a time that we're going through, there's all this going on, the community's kind of in, at the very best, it's in a place of transition. I think that there's some argument to say that there's some turmoil that's taking place in our community. How does something like the American Atheists fit into that?

And how does your convention help bring people together? Well, that's a great question because, again, we have a nice comprehensive sexual harassment policy. You know, and it's a shame that members of our community have done things which would forbid them from coming. And it's unfortunate. But we have a convention which is positive and harassment negative and welcoming. And that's something that's one of the things that we're trying to build is that community a community of compassion people don't really understand that firebrand atheism is built around compassion it's built around love it's built around respect for your fellow person right and that's what the american how is that missed can i can i interrupt you real quick how

the fuck did that get missed you know if you look at like the writings of, of, of, of the, any of like the big firebrand atheists, like whether you agree with all the things they said or didn't say, or whether they've become problematic since I don't even guess I care, but like, you look at a guy like let's take hitch cause he's fucking dead and he can't defend himself. But you take a guy like hitch, a quintessential firebrand atheist. And that guy was mad because people were hurt. He was mad because like that at the bottom, at what underlie all of that, like wonderful vitriol and firebrand,

like at the bottom of all of that was this deep seated love of other people, of empathy and like, and really like a fury at those who would oppress and hurt other people. And somehow like, like really like a fury at those who would oppress and hurt other people. And somehow like, like there is a huge group of people who just see, like, look at him say things that are mean.

Isn't that fun? Let's be mean too. And they miss the whole empathy, compassion, love. Like I miss all of it. They miss what underlies the whole thing. And I don't understand how that could even be the case, but it just is the case. You've got two forces going there.

First, you've got religion saying that atheism is angry. Okay. And you've got him saying things that are anti-religious, that are anti what religion says is good. And so religion says that he's angry. And so religion says that it's all about anger. And then the other side is that these people who are just fresh off from religion, who legitimately are angry about religion, angry at religion, and they latch onto him and they're still angry at religion. They don't see the passion. They don't see the love underneath.

And I think that's one of the things that firebrand atheism really needs to highlight. And that is that being a firebrand atheist is an act of compassion. It is an act of love. It is an act of caring because you're talking to somebody who is injured. You're talking to somebody who is hurt. You're talking to somebody who believes literally in an invisible man in the sky, not because they're stupid, not because they're moron, but because they're victims of the indoctrination that all of our parents were subjected to. And we were subjected to for the most part too. And there but for dumb luck go we. So we're not talking about stupid people. We're talking about people who need our help. And if we don't stand in front of them and say, no, talking about people who need our help. And if we don't stand in front of them and say, no,

your truth is not your truth. Your truth is false. My truth is actually truth. Let's talk about the difference between truth and falsehood, because I'm not going to tell you that your religion is good. I'm not going to tell you that your religion is valid. It is not good. It is not valid. It is a lie. It is a scam. And you're a victim. And if you don't say that to them, a lie, it is a scam, and you're a victim. And if you don't say that to them, nobody will. And that's important because it's our job to deliver this information. It is our job as good people. And yes, I know it sounds religion-y when I say it like that. It's still true because we do have the truth. The word truth has meaning. And the way religion uses it is not meaningful. The word truth has meaning, and that meaning is that it conforms with everything else that we know in the world to be true. And yes, it's a bit of a tautology, but it is what it is.

That which is true conforms to everything that we know to be true. And religion is not. There is nothing in what we know to be true that supports a being that is never born and never dies and can create matter and energy with his brain. It's not a real thing. So I have another question sort of related. So we have the social responsibility as atheists. As atheists with a voice. So if you've got a podcast or a blog,

do you have a responsibility then as a leader? At what point does your atheism translate into a responsibility toward activism? If you have the ability, you have the responsibility, as far as I'm concerned. If you're a person who is in the place where you can call yourself an atheist and not get hurt by it much, you have the responsibility.

Everybody has a responsibility to a point, okay? And we all have different levels of privilege, and we all have different layers of privilege. like myself, who is not under any sort of threat at all, if I come out as an atheist, if like, I mean, even before when I was a professional inventor at Bell Labs, I was in a point of privilege. I was well employed. I was well solid. I was well locked down. Nobody was going to hurt me. I wasn't going to face any sort of backlash, societal, familial, or professional, if I came out as an atheist, if you're in that position, you've got a responsibility to the people who don't have those privileges to come out as an atheist. And the people who don't have those privileges,

the people who are in, who are locked in a place where they cannot come out, they're the beneficiaries of our activism. We're going to make it easier for them eventually. And then there's this people in the middle. And I want to just speak to those people in the middle there. Those people in the middle are people who don't really consider it. The people who think, oh, I can't come out because everybody will kill me. But then when you think about it, no, they won't. There's a whole bunch of people out there who are stuck in this middle ground of, I can't call myself an atheist because my mother will clutch her

chest and fall to the ground like Fred Stanford. But when you probe, you say, do you have anybody, does that fragile mother of yours have anybody else in their family who's an atheist? Oh yeah, my sister's an atheist too. And she knows. No, you're not in that position. You're stuck. Okay. And so I asked the vast majority of people, I believe who are atheists, who don't call themselves atheists are in fact in a position to call themselves atheists publicly. And they don't because they're afraid. And I think they have to go over that fear because there's people in this world, in this country, who are less privileged by far, who cannot come out, who if they came out would

lose their jobs, who if they came out would lose their family, who if they came out would lose their entire circle of friends for real. And the reason that all those things would happen is because the people who can come out today are not in droves. And the people who do come out, people like you and I who are coming out as atheists, yes, we're helping, but we are too few. And we need the rest of the 90% of America's atheists to come out and call ourselves atheists for the people who can't, and of course for the political system itself. Is there going to be a way that you're going to be able to tell if the people who show up at your conference are recent, like people who recently came out?

Are you going to be able to do a test at all? Is there going to be a survey at all for those people just to sort of see? I always ask people to raise their hands when I come out. Because at the American Atheist National Convention, it's great. And by the way, this convention is going to be a real special thing. And I'll talk about that in a second. But yes, I usually ask people to raise their hands. And it's a fun thing to see because you say, okay, raise your hand if this is your first time. And easily a third of the people raise their hand. And then you can go, okay, raise your hand if you've been doing this for a year. Okay, five years. Okay, 10 years. Okay, 20 years. Okay, 30 years. Okay, 40 years. And you've got people raising your hand every time, right? And people are seeing the breadth of this movement. And I love that. I love people are seeing the longevity of this movement.

And so it's and one of the things that we're doing at this convention is specifically for first timers because we're putting billboards up in the city of Oklahoma City and we're putting our guest speaker, our keynote speaker front and center on the front of the billboard. And I'll tell you about that in a second. And we're offering really cheap admission for Oklahoma City people, Oklahoma residents. Okay? So get into this event. And I'm talking, and folks, I'm not kidding here. If you're an Oklahoma resident, you can come to the American Atheist National Convention for $50 for the weekend. Wow. Wow, that's a great deal. $50 for the weekend.

I'd almost consider becoming an Oklahoma resident. Don't talk like that. Okay, that's true. That's Wow. That's a great deal. $50 for the weekend. I'd almost consider becoming an Oklahoma resident. Don't talk like that. That's true. That's true. I wouldn't do that. If you're a student, you can come for $50. If you're a veteran or you're simply on low income, you can come for $99 for the weekend. And if you're not a veteran or low income or a student, the full price hasn't gone up in two years. We are doing this for a very specific reason. I'm keeping the cost low by far, way below market value for a very, very specific reason. I'll tell you that in a second. Let me tell you about the lineup of this thing, because not only are we having the lowest prices, lowest conceivable prices for everybody.

We're having our headline speaker is Mr. Hugh Laurie himself. An actual A-list celebrity is coming to our convention and going to speak from the stage. This is Dr. House. If people don't know who he is, that's House from the series House.

And from Fry and Laurie and from Blackadder. And we're talking about one of the most famous actors in the country, in the world. And he's coming to our convention. He is going to be flanked on one side by Mr.

By this inner Shevchenko from the founder and president of FEMIN, which is the topless jihadi protesters from Europe and Asia. Oh, yeah. And Reverend Barry Lynn on the other side. And if you Barry Lynn, of course, the president of the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State for 25 years. He is as close as you can getChadra, who is the founder of the Jordanian atheists, who is now moving to America because his life is in danger. And the managing director of Scopes, Brooks Benkowski, is also going to be there. So this is going to be a lineup full of people that most people have not heard, most people have not seen. Hugh Laurie, Brooke Binkowski, the managing editor of Snopes, the former president of Americans United for the Separation of Churches State, the leader of FAMEN and the founder

of the Jordanian Atheists, plus Anthony Magdabosco, plus Yvette D'Entremont, plus, plus, plus a whole bunch of other people who are going to bring in some fun and some really fantastic speakers to this. But of course, what we're doing here is reiterating the love behind firebrand atheism. So we will be doing a charity food packing event for 25,000 meals packing at this event. event for 25,000 meals packing at this event. And we're going to be raising money for Muhammad Al-Chadra. And we're going to be raising money for a local charity inside Oklahoma City. And the discounted pricing. Why? Here's the big picture. I want to make a big event. I want to make an event that sells out. I want to make an event that is so big That we remember what it's like

To be an American Atheist Convention I want to remind people What it's like to walk into a room Full of a thousand atheists Not a hundred Can I give you just a little bit of advice Invite Sargon of Akkad He's a big YouTuber.

I don't know if you've heard of him. That's a joke, Dave. Thank you so much for that advice. I'll take it under consideration. We do those around here. And if Sargon would like to come, he can get some empathy and get some... Oh, we're going to get some great YouTube comments on this one.

Redemption is a real thing. And when that happens, that's redemption is a real thing. In the meantime, no, he won't be up on our stage. But, but seriously, we are going to create, I'm going to, we, American Atheists is going to create an event that is really, really memorable. And this is not, this is, it's not like an anniversary year, it's our 55th anniversary, but it's not like a huge anniversary year, but it's turning out to be a really huge special event.

We're going to have, I mean, right now the billboards just went up. We're already two thirds of the way sold out. Oh, that's awesome. That's great. Yeah, of the way sold out. Oh, that's awesome. That's great. Yeah, this convention will sell out. And folks, if you've gone to a convention that has had 150 or 200 people, it is not the same as going to a convention with 600, 800, 1,000 atheists or more. It is a very different feeling when you walk into it and you feel that sense of community, that sense of community,

that sense of support and everybody's welcoming and the atmosphere is deliberately welcoming and the atmosphere is deliberately anti-sexual harassment, anti-negativity. And we just get around and we stew in our positivity and we create charity. We're going to be so goddamn happy, you won't believe it. It's a really, it's a beautiful experience. I remember in the Salt Lake City event back in 2013 or 14, we had people, and this is true, people who were there. We had people standing in the hallways crying because they had never been able to just speak their views out loud. And this is what we're going to be doing in Oklahoma City

because there's not only a lot of Christians in Oklahoma City, there's a lot of atheists, and they're alone. And we put Hugh Laurie's picture on a billboard, and we said, come to this convention. It's 50 bucks for the weekend. We are going to meet a whole lot of brand-new atheists this weekend. We are going to meet a whole bunch of brand- atheists this weekend. We are going to meet a whole bunch of brand new atheists, and we are going to energize them, and we are going to impress them,

and we are going to unify them, and we are going to leave behind an Oklahoma City atheist contingent that is large and of critical mass and self-sufficient so that when we leave behind, we're going to leave behind an atheist community that is strong and loving and positive and supportive. If people were going to go to this conference, how would they do it? All right. So that's the good stuff. The website is atheists.org, A-T-H-E-I-S-T-S.org. atheists.org, A-T-H-E-I-S-T-S.org. And the actual website is atheists.org slash convention 2018. If you go to atheists.org slash convention 2018, you can register for the convention. You can join as American Atheist. In fact, if you join as American Atheist and get a membership at the same time, you get a discount. Please do that because we need your membership and we need your

donations. Oh, and by the way, yes, we ask for money. And let me make sure that's something because people say, oh, you ask for money. It sounds like a religion. Over and over again, we get that. But folks, let me tell you what you won't get, what you will get from American atheists that you won't get from any sort of religion. We get our financials audited every year voluntarily by an independent accounting firm, and we publish them on the web. American Atheist tells you. Yeah. Yeah.

The Catholic Church doesn't do that. Yeah, that's for sure. No church does that. Right? No church does that. Right. Because we're not a religion. We're an activist organization.

We have seven employees. We have a whole bunch of wonderful volunteers. We have a building with no debt, no mortgage. We have solar panels on the roof. Your donations buy activism. That's what your membership does. And that's why we need you to help us and support us. Because this convention, while it's going to be huge, is not going to be very profitable. Please help us. Please see what we're doing here and join American Atheists and come and have a wonderful time

at the American Atheist National Convention. It's in Oklahoma City. The Sheraton downtown is where we are. The room block is almost full, but it's not full yet. But the billboards just went up. And so if you have any chance of coming, well, if you can, please come. It's March 29th to April 1st in Oklahoma City. That's Easter weekend.

That's Easter weekend. And because atheists have nothing better to do, right? Of course. And the rooms are cheap and the hotels are cheap. And we can all get together and we can have a spectacular event, low cost. And that's the objective here. High volume, low cost, high empathy, high compassion, high charity, high redemption, and low to zero tolerance for anything negative or has been or negativity or any of that crap. Yes.

Low on the assholes. That's it. High on the hearts, high on the brains, low on the assholes. That's great, Dave. Dave, we hope to have you on after this event so we can hear how great it was. One of us may be attending. We'll see.

We're still trying to figure out, shake that out. But we hope that it goes off as well as it does. Dave, if people were going to find you on the internet, where would they look? So that's a great question as well. My Twitter handle is at MrAtheistPants, M-R-AtheistPants, which was a handle that Stephen Colbert called me on his show.

And, of course, my Facebook page is slash Dave Silverman. And you can get us at American Atheist at American Atheist on Twitter and Facebook.com at American Atheist online. And one more mention of my book. My book is called Fighting God. It is now out on paperback. It is an atheist manifesto for a religious world. It is basically the best review. I've gotten a lot of fantastic reviews

and thank you so much to everybody who has given me a positive review on this. The most apt review, I think, in my book comes from Tom Flynn, who said that reading Fighting God is like getting stuck in an elevator with David Silverman for seven hours. Dave, you have a great time at your event. Sounds amazing.

We hope it turns out wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me on. It's been a great time, and I'll talk to you all very soon. Obama will destroy this nation, too. He is a man of destruction, darkness, and evil. There may be a year remaining in which you can get out and save your family. This story is also from Right Wing Watch.

Far-right radio host claims Barack Obama is forming a private army to assassinate government leaders. So this is Dave Hodges, host of the Right Wing Radio program, The Common Sense Show. And he appeared on Sheila Zielinski's Weekend Vigilante podcast. We should have Sheila in studio. Oh my God. God, how great would that be? That would be, we should have like a whole day where the fucking lunatics show up. Do you know what I miss, by the way? I miss Glenn Beck.

Yeah. You know, Glenn Beck used to be real crazy. I don't know what happened. I don't know what, if he's just like not appearing on the radar anymore. He was super nuts for a while. He was. He was, and he was fun. He was like unwell nuts, and he was great. He was that guy. He was Howard Beale from fucking Network for a while. He was amazing. He was fucking

crazy. Yeah. I think I can sympathize with him, though, because there came a moment with Trump where he like came to his senses like legitimately and then said as much like, oh my god, I was wrong. I fucking conflated these things and now I see how we're conflating.

He had a whole sort of self-reflective revelatory moment. It was kind of awesome to watch and to have him admit it on air and now he's just like not on the crazy train. Yeah, he's not. He's certainly not being watched as hardly watched as

stringently by these people the right wing watch people. Right. Because I haven't seen his stuff come up on there at all. I think if he said something crazy, he'd pop up. Absolutely. I don't think that they would. It's not like they said nothing, but I wonder you know, I know that they have staffers that that's what they do, right?

Like, so the staffers will just watch. And then also they probably just take tips, right? If somebody finds something, right. You gotta check this out. But,

uh, but I wonder if they, if they monitor his stuff anymore, if they, if like after a certain point of you not being as fucking shithouse as you were, because once in a while, there'll be a Rush Limbaugh clip.

That's true. But I wonder if they monitor Rush every day or if they just wait for the tipsters to send them a message. We should have somebody from Right Wing Watch. We should actually ask somebody from Right Wing Watch to come on the show and talk about how they do it. Because God, who would want to sit through?

Dave Daubenmayer's show. The Dave Daubenmayer show every day. Holy shit. That's a fucking saint. Oh my gosh. And by the way, where is our little pal Barry Satoru? He's been strangely silent.

He's not president anymore! He's not strangely, hold on, why is he strangely silent? You guys are upset that he's like in the background pulling the fucking strings like a fucking, you know, moving everything around like marionettes. You guys are upset when he's thinking he does that. And then when he's quiet, he's just like, I'm just not

the president. I'm just kind of hanging out on the beach. Like, look at him. He's quiet. He's gone dark. He's gone dark. He's already been dark, Tom. He's been dark for a long time. He's gone dark. Pulling together his SES, his private army,

and his private army. I would join that army. I would join the Barry Sotero army. Let me put it out there. Barack Obama. If you want to form a Barry Sotero or whatever, however it's fucking pronounced, army, and it's your

fucking private army, I will join your... You know why I can make that? And I have no intention of joining any armies, by the way, because there's no way it's going to happen ever. I will say this. If Barry Satoro, if you do form your own private army,

I'm only going to join. If you have a giant BS patch, I can wear. What is his bootcamp? Like, you have to go be a community organizer. Oh my God. I got to,. You gotta go sit through a bunch of Jeremiah Wright preacher

sessions. Just fucking Bill Ayers as the sergeant yelling at you. Bill Ayers is teaching you how to do weather underground bombings. I have intelligence information. I wasn't going to release this, but you brought it up in such a timely way. I love this guy when he says I have intelligence information. You wasn't going to release this, but you brought it up in such a timely way. I love this guy. Like when he says, I have intelligence information,

you've never had anything intelligent in your head, but he makes it sound like he's some kind of like, like fucking guy who's plugged into some sort of top secret security shit. You don't have any intelligence information. He is very likely the heir to the budding fortune. I'm just saying that this is part of that nonsense. Throw a football over the mountain. Exactly, right? In a second. I love because this is like, this is how easy he gives up this

classified information. Somebody's like, and whatever happened to Barack Obama? Well, now that you brought it up, you really twisted my arm and the cat's out of the bag. I normally am very tight lipped about these things. But hang on, on your radio program. The intelligence community can trust me. I got this classified information, and as long as nobody says the word,

hi, I'm going to keep this under my belt, I can't be held responsible if somebody greets me. Right here and right now, I have sources, and I think one or two of them may go on the record eventually, where Obama's secret military forces, a lot of times we label them the SES, is now partnering with MS-13. Hey, hope and change, Vato. MS-13 is driving around and they're polling door to door asking people to vote for their

Democratic congressman. They're helping some old lady in with their groceries. I'll tell you what, man. People would sign that fucking petition. It's like that movie Napoleon Dynamite where they all roll up and vote for whatever that guy, Pedro. Look at him and he's like,

Okay, I got it. I got it. Whatever you want. I won't take his vote for whatever that guy, Pedro. Look at him and he's like, okay, I got it. I got it. Whatever you want. I won't take his bike or beat him up or whatever. Yeah. What the best part is, is Barack Obama.

Cholo fight. That's my favorite part. When they make his eyebrows all big and shit. I want, what would Trump look like? Cholo fight. Oh, Trump.

You know, if you're out there and you're a Cholifier, give us a Barry Satoro Cholify and give us a Trump Cholify. Oh, send those to us. And we're going to pick the best one and put it in the show. Who wore it best? It's the cognitive dissonance.

Cholification. Our previous leaders. And I'm saying previous for Trump. Can we throw Kim Jong-un in the mix? I think a Cholified Kim Jong-un would be pretty money. They are going to serve as the fifth column when the United States is involved in war. And we will see politicals. Yeah, the fucking MS-13 is going to be the fifth column in a war.

What war are we? Aren't we at war with them? They're not serving. They're serving against us in a seditious. We're talking about the things. I mean, in their world, this is a seditious act of treason. Right. And so but they're served.

Okay. I'm going to kill myself. Moving on. Why would they do that? Anyway, they're from fucking El Salvador. Assassinations of law enforcement, of political opposition people. It'll be the same kind of purge

that Hitler put upon the communists when he burned down the Reichstag. This is what is coming. And this is what people... It'd be so hilarious to see the MS-13 like banging on politicians' doors and dragging them out of their house. And not hilarious in a way that it would be funny to see someone hurt.

Hilarious in the way that it's not going to fucking happen. It's not going to happen because those guys couldn't drive into the neighborhoods that politicians live without getting stopped by the police. Those guys show up. Yeah. Like they couldn't get, they couldn't get two blocks into these fucking communities. Yeah.

The gated neighborhoods. Yeah. Are you kidding me? They're going to show up. They're just going to push right past the secret service outside too these fucking communities. Yeah, the gated neighborhoods. Are you kidding me? They're just going to push right past the Secret Service outside, too. No problem. When you're a cholo, they just let you through. Just right in there. People who are close to this tell me is coming, and Obama is at the center of it.

Now, what he hopes will happen, and this is something that I've also been told, is that if the United States goes under the United Nations as a protector because we're in chaos and they take us over in a martial law move. What the fuck are you talking about? How the fuck does that even happen? The United Nations has never done that once ever, even in places it should. That's so true. The United Nations is an impotent group of letter writers. They don't give a shit about anybody that can't accomplish anything. They show up. They write a letter.

They all fucking build a new headquarters once in a while. They piss and moan about things. They don't ever do anything. And there have been country after country. There are countries right now. There are countries, there are nations right now that are in such incredible turmoil. Their people are dying by the hundreds and thousands. There are people starving to death all over the world.

We don't care. The United Nations doesn't swoop in and take them under their fucking gentle wing as a black helicopter owning protectorate. We don't do this more than we don't do anything else. We don't do this with 100% likelihood and accuracy. We don't do this always. Well, you don't do it in places where there's a crazy religious faction that is overrunning the nation and

slaughtering people by the hundreds, like they were throughout the entire Middle East, like ISIS was throughout the entire Middle East. They don't do that anywhere. We didn't do it in Rwanda. We didn't do it in Liberia. We're not doing this in Yemen right now. We're not doing this anywhere. Yep.

They didn't. And so like this idea that you're just like, oh, they'll just come right into the United States and just be like, yeah, hey, guys, we're just going to take you over. Oh, hi, I'm the United Nations. I'm here to take over the United States. Really? Because we're the biggest contributor to that. Yeah. And also, how did we overcome the nuclear missiles again?

How did MS-13 do that? What we'll see is Obama installed as the leader of the United States under UN protectorate laws. God, you're scared. They are so afraid of Obama still. Can you imagine? That guy could die and they would be afraid of zombie Obama. Like, you know, he's got a zombie. Zombie Obama is a crazy thing.

Zombie Sotero or whatever. I got to say, do you think, Tom, that after a certain point, you're saying this Obama boogeyman over and over and over again, and he clearly isn't doing anything. He's not been in power. He's not doing anything. Once in a while,

he'll put out a tweet about gun control. You know, nothing. I mean, nothing. He's not doing a lot of... It's the opinion of a private citizen at this point. He's not doing anything. Is there a moment where somebody in their audience stops and says, this sounds a lot like the boy who cried wolf? No.

Do you don't think so? Never. That will never happen for this audience. Never. They want this to be true. Right. That's the problem is they don't think that this is true. They're not afraid that this might be true.

They want these things to be true. Do you think that, that like, so Trump hasn't done anything so far that has been, that I've been like, woohoo. Right. So recently he had a talk where he said he was going to remove bump stocks and he was going to also maybe change laws on how old you could be to buy certain types of weapons and things like that in my opinion my personal opinion that's feel-good legislation i don't think that's going to change body counts in the very least i think it's i think it's feel good legislation make us all feel like we're doing something but it's really not going to yield any real results unless we get rid of handguns that's that's almost all the fucking

violence most of the violence is done with handguns. And to be perfectly honest, you know, like when people are talking about, you know, the assault weapon that happened, the assault weapon shoot-em-ups that happened recently,

just remember the Virginia Tech guy because he had pistols. He had double pistols and walked in and shot the shit out of a bunch of people, killed a ton of people with double pistols.

Now, granted, I feel like you probably have to spend a lot more time at the range, but it's not like these people don't spend time at the range, right? So, I mean, it's like, this is a time that they're going to be willing to spend. So I don't feel like any of that legislation is a big deal. So I'm not going to be like throwing up pom poms for Trump for something I don't think is that great. I don't think it's that big a deal to be perfectly honest. The only legislation that I've seen float, and I think he made a comment in this direction, which people got like,

I kind of couldn't believe he made a comment in this direction, which was the, there are a certain number of states that have laws that enable the authorities to take your guns if they think that there's a credible reason to take your guns. He said do it first and then- Do it first, ask questions later. Yeah, and like, that is the closest, what's funny about that is that's the closest thing to a gun ban or gun confiscation that has been floated. Ever said, ever said. Right. And it got floated by this guy. And I, and the thing is, I actually think that's more than feel good legislation. I think if there was a federal law that enabled federal authorities or gave the authority to state authorities to take guns away from people that

were reported as being potentially violent, who had not yet created or committed an act of violence, that could be a lot more. If you could serve a warrant on somebody because like this, like the guy who just committed the most recent mass shooting, right? There were lots of indicators

that he was going to do that. Sure, absolutely. Many, many. Yeah, and they ignored a lot of those, yeah. They ignored them. So if somebody had been able to knock on his door, go into his house and take all his guns and ammo yeah that's a big deal sure if you know the drug dealer down the street has you know you have reason to believe that guy's fucking armed all

the time and you can call somebody and they will show up and take all his fucking guns away that could save some lives if you know that you're you know uh that somebody is uncle depressed uncle or that somebody's abusing their wife and has guns in the house. That's how lives could be saved. That could be much more than feel-good legislation. The Secret Service did a survey after

Columbine, and they found that most of the time, there are ways to see ahead of time that gun violence is going to happen. There are things that you can see that basically ways to see ahead of time that gun violence is going to happen. There are, uh, there are things that you can see that, that basically let us know that in the future, there's very high likely of gun violence. And so if we were to follow up on those things more often, the problem is, is you

have the people on the other side, the freedom people who are going to be the, you know, the, the gun free people who are going to be screaming, what's the, you know, what's the, the freedom people who are going to be, you know, the gun free people who are going to be screaming. What's the, you know, what's the thing that stops somebody from falsely reporting you? And, you know, like there's all these people that will say that sort of thing. And, you know, it's interesting because if you say anything bad about guns in this country, if you say anything about any kind of regulations on guns, you're immediately thrown into the pot of people who think guns are not something that, you know, we should have here in this country at all. You know, like, and then if you, if you say anything pro about guns, you're also thrown again in that pot of people that are like super pro gun ones. I do feel, you know, just like Australia has, there's probably some reasons why someone legitimately could own a gun. I genuinely feel that.

I also feel in this country that there's never ever going to be a way that we're going to be able to take guns away from citizens, period. I don't think that that's ever going to become a thing where we can just say, no guns can be had unless you have, you know, this amount of training and whatever.

Because when we talked to people in Australia, we went to Skepticon down there. There was a bunch of people that came up to talk to us. And I talked to three or four people, and they said they had guns. They owned guns. Now, they were for like varmints and shit like that. They couldn't, you know, they're not like... And these people live very rarely.

But they do have guns. Those people do exist, and they do have guns. So, you know, I feel like, too, out here in the States, there's people who live, it's 50 minutes to an hour before a police officer can get to you. Should that person have access to a firearm in their home? I think so. If it makes you feel better,

it makes you sleep at night, it makes you, you also probably should understand that you're probably more likely to kill yourself with that gun than you are to shoot somebody else. But it's still, I mean, do I think that we should be

going into people's homes and taking these guns? Maybe not, maybe not, right? But why don't we do, why don't we even move to like a gun system like Canada, where you can't leave the house with a gun, period, with it loaded. You know what I mean? You can't walk around with a loaded gun. We have places in the United States

where you can walk around with an AR-15 on your back, loaded, ready to fire, one in the chamber. You can walk around in many, many places in this country with a gun on your hip as if you were old timey fucking cowboy. Yep. There are places in this country where you don't, you need no licensing or certification

to do that either. Yeah. You just, you just walk into a store, buy it, give them a money. Yeah. They hand you a gun. You put it in your pocket. That's the whole transaction. Everything's legal.

And so I feel like, you know, there it's been the, the, the, the, the comparison has been made many times to cars. We regulate cars. Well, much more than we do guns. We, you know, require licensing and insurance on cars. You know, it's, it's a privilege. It's not a right. You know what I mean? And those sorts of things, uh, you can get that, that privilege revoked from you. Um, or you can get the, you know, that, that privilege revoked from you. or you can get that privilege revoked from you if you're a drunk driver many times, those sorts of things. So, you know, I feel like we need to be, there needs to be some sort of something there that stops people from owning these guns and just like en masse, just having guns around.

I know. I like the, at the very least to start, I like the thing where you can take someone's gun if you have a credible reason to believe. Like it has to be investigated. They could get a warrant. They could seize your guns. I think you could put mechanisms into place to say this is credible and here's how we established the credibility of the claim

that there may be a clear and present danger that's forthcoming or imminent. I think that that's a reasonable... Because what we do is we have this narrative. It's a government-started narrative. They say, if you's a government started narrative. And they say like, if you see something, say something. And that sounds great.

But if I see something and say something and you don't do anything. Nobody does anything. Then there's no point in me saying anything. It requires that third action. And very quickly what will happen is people in mass will get the idea. They'll get the message

that I saw something, said something, nothing was done. I'm never going to say anything again because it's pointless, right? We don't do things that are pointless. Those things actually are counter-effective over the long term. So we got to have laws. We got to, if you're going to tell me, if you see something, say something, you see something, say something, you see something, say something, then you got to fucking do something. I got to tell you an anecdotal version of that in my own experience, I've been behind people driving that I clearly look like they were drunk. Yeah. They, they were weaving and I've called nine one one,

maybe four times. Yeah. I've never had a single thing happen from that. I followed them dozens of miles. And I said, I'm right behind this person. And I've had people on the phone with me be incredulous. So I'd be like, how do you know he's drunk? And I'm like, well, I don't know he's drunk, but I do know he's weaving all over the road and a danger to other drivers. That's what I do know. Right. And you should get an officer here to take care of it. Cause if I was doing this, I guarantee I'd be pulled over. And they, you know, like, like you, you just have this, like nothing is being done. Nobody cares. Well, I don't do it anymore. I just pass up. I just speed up and just go away from the person. I protect me because I, but like, like we can, you know, the problem is like, we have a system in place

that waits for the crime to happen. Yeah. And then, you know, we punish the person who committed the crime. We find who did it and we punish them. And that's, and then we still, we should have that system. But I think like there are reasons to believe, and I'm not talking about jailing people, but I'm saying like, let's take the tools of violence away from people if we have a credible reason to think that they're an imminent danger to their

community or their family or whatever. Like, you can do that. And I understand why there would be pushback against that idea. And I think you just refine the law to make it, try to work as best you can. You can't make everything work perfectly. You know what I mean? Like, people always will be like, well, what about this? It's like, yeah, of course

certain things are going to scrape through and that happens but make the law as good as you can but we're not even talking and the thing is like I don't think that the punitive issue here is that is that egregious right we're not talking about sending the wrong person to jail no what you're doing is you're saying we're taking away their guns and what if they appeal

and they get them back right and then it'd be a system to retrieve your weapon so all it is is you just temporarily were without a gun. Yeah. You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers!

I want the truth! You can't handle the truth! So the story comes from Gizmodo. National Geographic just sent me a crystal healing water bottle. This is pretty much what it sounds like.

This is a bottle, just like a refillable bottle that has some rocks in the bottom of it. Yeah, there's some rocks. But they're not... Now, let's not just say that the rocks are just dropped in there, Tom. No, that would be haphazard.

That would be. These rocks are placed in the bottle. And may I mention about these rocks very quickly that the bottle has carefully selected and ethically sourced gemstones representing the building blocks of earth including quote unquote wood quote unquote water quote unquote earth quote unquote metal quote unquote fire you got earth metal and fire well earth they didn't have wind they left wind out that makes sense if they got earth uh metal and fire in there,

Earth, wind, and fire in there, that makes sense. They didn't get wind in there. They didn't get wind in there? There's no wind. Well, I guess... It's just Earth and fire. Wind quit the band.

I was going to say, because they warn you not to drink it if the stones get in touch because it'll make it funky. Because they're current... It will be funky, absolutely. It's currently in a little bubble. Well, they have several different iterations

of this thing. So they have, because look at the brochure. On the brochure, they've got like a giant, like, I'm in a hotel. It's a carafe. Like dispenser. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So like that's like malt. Oh, yeah. They got a spigot dispenser, a carafe, and then an actual water bottle. Now the carafe appears to have

a butt plug of rocks in it. That is a very shapey, shapey thing of rocks. That is absolutely ribbed for her pleasure. I'll tell you what, that does not appear to be the starter model, though. That's like a varsity level plug.

That is absolutely the plug that you get when the other one is falling out. I'll say this too. Same rule applies. If the glass breaks, do not touch the stones. And if the glass breaks, that is an emergency. Do not drink the water.

You don't actually have to break the glass in a case of an emergency. You know it's an emergency. You just know. You just inherently know it's an emergency. Is this broken glass in my rectum? You said nobody ever. Yes. So the pamphlet, I think it'd be fun to read some of the claims. Yeah, for sure.

So the pamphlet with this fucking piece of shit says that everything in nature vibrates. Gems naturally act like a source of subtle vibrations. Unlike earthquakes, I guess, which act as a form of really overt vibrations. That's vigorous vibrations. Unlike earthquakes, I guess, which act as a form of really overt vibrations. That's vigorous vibrations.

I love this next sentence. These vibrations inspirit water. That is a verb I have never heard before. Inspirit? To put more spirit within, I guess. Inspirit. How much spirit's in here? Well, it hasn't been in spirits.

It's not been in spirits for a while. Inspiration. That's close. These vibrations in spirit water, making it more lively and enjoyable. I want my water to chill the fuck out. I don't ever want

my water to be... There's a goldfish in your water! I want my water to be... That's like going to goldfish in your water. I want my water ice cube cold. You're drinking the aquarium if your water is lively. You just gotta... There's like those little sea monkeys

in there. Drinking away. Lively. Has this ever happened to you? This water isn't enjoyable at all. Did anybody rub a crystal on it? Is there any way I can get a life straw? There's not even any vibrations in here. You know, and the thing, the reason why this is

interesting is because recently the National Geographic has undergone a change in ownership. The company that owns Fox bought National Geographic and they I recently, I have in my hand, I bought this at the, uh, at the supermarket I was going through and the National

Geographic, I'm going to read the titles, 50 most influential figures of the Bible. It was interesting. And you work your way through and there's, you know, and some people did when I posted this on my Facebook page, a couple of people had said, yeah, you know, I think that there could be people who you could argue could be influential from the Bible. And I understand the argument. I understand what they're saying. Academically, I understand.

But at the same time, you're like, look, it's all made up. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? It's all, that's like being like the 50 most influential wands from Harry Potter. Like, like that's, it's all made up. Like, it's just what a person thought of.

Like, I understand that there are real people that were, you know, littered throughout biblical history, but there's also a lot of made up people in biblical history too. And, and the same thing is true with this. This is interesting because on one hand they're reaching toward a very conservative audience, National Geographic is, but on the other hand, we own the woo. I mean, the left and the people that are mostly liberal, they own the woo. I mean, the woo is... The woo, I think, does cross all...

There's a cross-contamination, but there's a lot more in the liberal camp. By and large, when we're talking about numbers, the fucking psychic healings and crystal balls guys, those tend to be the fucking crunchy granola far left bullshit nonsense. And this appeals to them. Right.

And it's an interesting, you know, back and forth that's going on, but it's clearly not scientific. It's clearly not something that I think that everybody sort of understood National Geographic to stand for. Both of these things seem to fly in the face of that. Well, and it's particularly egregious because it uses language. It's like, you know,

scientists all agree that you can, you know, rub rocks on the water, and then they quote that fucking Japanese guy who screams at the water. He screams at rice or whatever. He yells at water to see that it changes molecular shape. Yeah, exactly. Like, this is anger water. And then it changes color and whatever.

And that is so discredited. He's the guy from that What the Bleep Do We Know movie. That's where I heard about him. I didn't know about him beforehand. It's utter tripe. It's garbage. Did that lady sign language

really angrily at the water in there? Is that how she did it? I don't remember. She just shook it. That's how you sign language angry? You just shake the shit out of whatever. I am angry with you! I am reading your body.

Yeah, but like, it's problematic that something like National Geographic lends it credibility, right? Right. That is. It's problematic, but it's equally problematic that National Geographic, knowing that print medium is dying, has probably done market studies and market share research to know that this is the kind of shit their people want. Yeah.

Because they don't send this garbage out for no reason. It wasn't like, well, guys, it could be this or a Sexton. Yeah. You know, like they picked this for a reason because this is the kind of shit the audience wants. like they picked this for a reason because this is the kind of shit the audience wants. You know, one thing they did was they reached out to National Geographic to see if there was, if they would respond and do anything like that. And this article has been updated and I want to read the update out loud. Update 445 PM. I followed the directions and the water tastes exactly the same.

So that's going to wrap it up for today. We don't have an email section because we wound up recording this on a weekend. We had to schedule with Dave on a weekend. So we don't have an email section right now. We're going to have email when we come back next week. If you want to find out any information on American Atheists, or if you want to find out how to go to the conference, check this week's show notes. That's episode 404. And you can find out all the information to find Dave and all the stuff that he had mentioned, all the conference

stuff that he had mentioned. We will link to it in this week's show notes. But that's going to wrap it up for this week. We want to thank David Silverman from American Atheist for coming on and joining us. He's a wonderful guest and a great guy to talk to. But we are going to leave you like we always do with the Skeptic's Creed. Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno-Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative,

acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead pan, sales pitch, late night info-docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, Late Night Infodocutainment Leo Pisces Cancer Cures Detox Reflex Foot Massage Death in Towers Tarot Cards

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