Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 526: Trans Rights with Callie Wright

Episode Date: June 1, 2020

Thanks to Callie Wright from for joining us! Make sure to drop them a follow     Stories from the Week

This episode of Cognitive Dissonance is brought to you by our patrons. You fucking rock. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. recording live from glory hole studios in pandemic land. This is Cognitive Dissonance. Yes, we are not in Chicago anymore. We are dispersed. Well, one of us is in Chicago. But we are not. Okay, I see.

Right? Unless you're talking about the papal we is in Chicago. Got it, got it. This is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence

to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political. And there is no welcome mat or vaccine, which about 30% of the population wouldn't take anyway. This is episode 526. It's hopeless. And we are joined this episode

by Kelly Wright of the Queersplaining Podcast. Welcome. I thought we were going to have fun on this show. I'm fucking depressed now. We are having fun. This is how fun is had now. Yeah, let's not say true things. Let's avoid.

Here, let's make this pack today before we even start, guys. We're not going to say true things to each other. Let's just skip it. Got it make this pack today before we even start, guys. We're not going to say true things to each other. Let's just get this. Got it. I do want to say, though, interesting serendipitous moment today. On my Facebook memories,

Callie and Ari Stillman visited the studio four years ago today. Jesus. I saw the same thing in my memory. Yeah. That was a great time. That years ago, four years ago, a lot has changed since then, Kelly. Oh, indeed. A lot has changed. Why don't we talk, why don't we start with, you know, you said something recently on a show I was on. So I was on the

Scathing Atheist live stream. And you said something that really, I thought was really great and was one of these moments that I recognize that there are people in the LGBT community that are so welcoming to other people and so willing to explain things to them. You had said, you never care if someone asks a question, as long as you know that question is not in bad faith and that they are very genuinely curious about the answer. And I feel like I want to say that out loud right now, as Tom and I entered this conversation with you, we're the two cis-est dudes you've ever met in your entire life. Like we are the biggest cis dudes. And so we may make a,

not make a comment, but even just ask a question or say something. And so we may make a, not make a comment, but even just ask a question or say something. And I just want to say out the gate that we're just two dudes that are 100% in good faith. And I want to just relay that to the audience before, just so somebody isn't sitting there waiting for it and they hear something and they cringe because we're just too dumb to know what we're talking about. No, if you get it wrong, just remember,

I have a Twitter account. If we get it wrong, we'll know by our Twitter. I mean, maybe even if you get it right. Cause I remember after, I remember after being on the show, there were some, there were some things last time. Gosh. Yeah. Tom, Tom had to yell at somebody on Twitter because they were mean. Everybody's yeah. Tom had to yell at somebody on Twitter because they were mean. Everybody's mean. It's just mean. Why is everybody so mean?

I don't get it. I don't understand. Oh, it's been, but it's been four years. And the last time we had you on, we had a no pandemic. That was number one. Right.

Two, there was a sane person in office at that point. So there wasn't, right now you're literally living in a fucking Game of Thrones novel with fucking Geoffrey on the throne. It's absolutely insane. And one of the things that we wanted to talk to you about, just to frame the conversation, we got some stories we want to talk about, but like when we, when, before we, before Trump took office, right after he won, there was this really, I mean, I specifically remember this video, and it was by one of those idiots

that was at the Mythicist Milwaukee, that came up to Mythicist Milwaukee. It wasn't the most popular one, but it was one of the popular ones. It was a girl. She had made this unbelievably just pandering video that talked about, oh, don't worry, Trump's going to be fine

when he gets in office. It's okay. Sit down here, little LGBT person. Let me show't worry. Trump's going to be fine when he gets in office. It's okay. Sit down here, little LGBT person. Let me show you how good Trump is going to be. And it was so condescending and so shitty. And I remember watching it and thinking, well, I'm going to see if this age is like milk. And so we're at the point now, three years into the Trump presidency and three years into the administration, three years into changing judges, three years into all these things, a Supreme Court that is now heavily conservative, that is on its last legs, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's last legs, waiting for it to maybe be the most conservative court in the history of the United States. Where are we with the way in which we treat that population?

Cecil, can I, can I, I know, Kelly, I want you, I guess another way to frame the question is how far have we come forward? Like, we're far? We're talking about progression. I don't mean to reframe your question, Cecil. You've phrased it so well.

No, you're right, yeah. I just, you know, it was just, I just, I don't know how to put a metric on that kind of distance and progress. How much are we winning is what Tom is asking. Yeah, that's another question. How much are we winning? Are we tired of it yet?

To answer that question, what I actually want to do is like do a bit where I stand back about six feet from the microphone and just scream for an hour. That's how I would like to answer the question, but I live with other people, so I'm not gonna. Oh God. God. So sad. So I think, I think what we have to start with is the understanding that like where we're at now is so bad that where we were seems so great by comparison. And frankly, it wasn't like, things were certainly moving in the right direction. Right. And, uh, and you know,

we got gay marriage, which is great, but I mean, that's fucking, that was five years ago. That's not that long a time. Um, but still, uh, no like explicit, uh, employment discrimination protections, healthcare discrimination protection protections. Um, at least none that were super, super solid in place. Right. Like it was all based on like, well, the department of justice is going to interpret the law this way uh which is like also very easy to undo and so i know that hold on a second to be fair wouldn't they have to then interpret the law a different way which oh no that they they could do that on a fucking whim never mind yeah yeah sorry it's just when you say it out loud it sounds ridiculous i mean sometimes you have to say it out loud to get it right i'm i'm yeah i'm there with you um but yeah but i mean i mean in the middle of a pandemic where uh you know

there's there's not a direct correlation between like being queer trans and extra risk for covid but queer and trans people make up so many of the uh vulnerable populations that are at risk like uh people who are lower income people who work in in jobs that leave them more likely to be in poverty. All of those folks are at higher risk for the worst effects of this. And the administration is like very explicitly working on rolling back the piddling little protections that were built into the Affordable Care Act. and, you know, like explicitly enshrining like a doctor's right to be like, Oh, you're trans. I don't want to treat you. And to be clear, like, we're not talking about like a doctor being forced to give hormones or

surgery. We're talking about like, Oh, you came to my office because you have a broken arm. You're trans fuck off. Like, um, that is, that is the world that they are pursuing. So can I pause real quick and say, holy shit, that happens? Like people like go to the emergency room and you're like, my arm is broken and somebody is turning you away. That is a reality that I find so unbelievably appalling. I'm shocked that that actually happens. Maybe that's very Pollyanna of me. It's not usually that explicit, right? So like there's actually a thing that people say like trans broken arm syndrome. And that comes from a story of someone, a trans woman who,

if I'm remembering the story right, a trans woman who broke her arm playing softball and the insurance company said that because she was playing softball in an LGBTQ league and her health insurance didn't explicitly cover trans related stuff that they weren't going to cover her broken arm because it was related to her being trans because it was a queer and trans softball league. Wait, what? Okay.

Wait, I did. I, I, I, maybe I'm going to rephrase my question. Wait, what?

No part of the words that you just used makes any sense. The insurance company asked like, oh, how'd you hurt your arm? I was playing softball. Well, it wasn't gay softball, was it? Cause we're not covering gay softball. There was another story that I heard where someone was, uh, was fighting their insurance company on getting trans stuff covered. And a result of the stress, like had heart problems. I don't know that it was specifically a heart attack, but like had like stress related heart problems. The insurance company accepted responsibility for being the cause of that stress.

So they could code it as being a trans related problem. That is the craziest, nuttiest shit I have ever heard. You know, it almost, and not quite, but it almost makes me wonder if insurance companies are not the right solution for, I don't want to get too far afield.

I don't, maybe. Okay. Sorry. Let's not get crazy, Tom. I know. I know.

I don't even know why I said that. Like the super, super egregious stuff like that. Honestly, like obviously it happening at all is a problem, but the, the like super like crazy, like egregious stuff like that is a little bit less rare. But like what it is most often is that like trans folks are often just like having to educate people. Like I went to the emergency room because I thought I had a problem with my stomach. Like I was, it was like the worst stomach pain I'd ever, it was some of the worst pain I've

ever felt in my life. I thought something was seriously wrong. And like, as I'm sitting in the emergency room and the nurses are asking me questions, they're like, they start asking me trans questions. Like, you know, they did this training and I just had these questions and I, and I was like, like my stomach feels like it's going to fucking explode. Can we maybe wait? They were just asking you like general trivia about like, Hey, we're kind of curious about this in general. It wasn't like related to your,

it was, it was like specifically stuff about how to like quote unquote treat trans patients. Um, and the reason that they knew is because like they asked for your surgery or surgical history and I've had vaginoplasty and I had my bottom surgery. And so that obviously outs me plus like my hormone prescriptions and stuff. Like people are smart enough to put two and two together and realize what that means. Um, but they're asking about like, well, how do

and I'm just like, it's not even that fucking complicated. Like my name is Callie. My pronouns are they, them, uh, what the fuck else do you want to know? Like I'm here because I think my stomach's going to explode. I'm not sure what that has to do with any of this or like stuff like, you know, have you had a pregnancy test? And I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't actually need one of those. I'm like, are you sure? And I was like, I don't have a fucking uterus. Um, yeah, that's a hell of a magic trick though. Admittedly, that is a hell of a magic trick. When they pull that baby out of there, it is, I mean, just everybody's wowed. Everybody's like, wow, amazing.

It's all rabbits. It turns out you're pregnant with rabbits. It's a whole thing. You look it up, citation needed. Anyway. And in fairness, like the frontline healthcare workers, honestly, like I don't blame them so much as I blame the system that they work for

that just pretends people like me don't really exist. And so the first time they ever hear about a trans person is when they meet one and like, fuck, are you going to do about that? Right. So like, I don't even, you know, I don't want to like drag those particular people through the mud because like they were obviously not handed the tools and they're like, Ooh, opportunity. Right. Um, it's just a really fucking frustrating thing to do. I know that gay people are discriminated against, bi people are discriminated against. It almost seems pretty obvious to me that trans people are discriminated against

on a level that a lot of people don't understand. A lot of people don't get. Do you feel like you are discriminated against on a more regular basis than other groups of people? I don't want it to play Discrimination Olympics either. So don't get me wrong. I don't want to play Discrimination Olympics. All discrimination is bad. I don't want to talk about it in that sense. That's just such an uphill climb for trans people in this country. It feels like that is the new whipping boy that everyone wants to discriminate against. Yeah. Yeah. I guess like on a scale from like one to

a press. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of it in this day and age really depends on how much money you have and where you live. Right. Uh, so like, I don't, I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but it's pretty horrifying how more likely trans folks are to, uh, to experience poverty. Um, and a lot of that comes back to things like employment discrimination. Uh, and that like, even if you're qualified, it's tough to get a good job because people, you know, clock you as being trans and they don't want anything to do with you. Um, so yeah. And I think that has to do with oftentimes the fact that you're trans is more visible than, uh, being queer. Um, you know, that regardless of, of how much you want to like lead with your trans identity,

uh, sometimes there, you literally just don't have a choice. Um, and that like, you know, the way that your body is built, like people are going to always stereotypically read you as something you're not the way that your voice sounds, all of that sort of stuff. And so like, you know, having to stay in the closet is its own kind of hell and i don't want to downplay that um yeah but like i mean in theory like there are ways that you could hide being queer if you wanted to in a lot of ways um and that's a choice a lot of trans folks don't have um yeah and uh and yeah so like i try to stay sensitive like you said about like i don't want to play oppression olympics because yeah no of course not yeah especially during this time when

people are getting their necks leaned on and dying in the street. You know, there's plenty of oppression to go around. Don't get me wrong. I mean, we've got a lot of it and we want to give it out. We want to dole it out. I just wanted to make sure that you got your fair share. That's all, you know?

Yeah. And that's an important thing to point out, right? Like black and brown trans folks bear the worst of all of it, right? Like anything that, you know, basically like anything bad that happens to trans folks happens worse to black and brown trans folks. Uh, and, uh, you know, and you know, that's like intersectionality, right? Like, uh, your, your race matters, your gender matters, being trans matters, being queer matters, uh, in terms of all of that stuff. Uh, so yeah, and it all just kind of stacks one on the other. I mean, we do, you know,

the Transgender Day of Remembrance every year and every year, almost all of the names are names of black trans women or Latinx trans women. So, you know, it's interesting. That actually ties in very closely to something that we sent you. And it's right-wingers lose their mind after Biden pledges to end violence against trans women.

And in his tweet that he tweeted out, he specifically said trans people of color. He said, we cannot be silent in the face of rising violence against transgender people of color. Like the recent tragedies in Missouri and Puerto Rico, it's our moral obligation to end this epidemic to ensure that everyone can live open and proud and free from fear. And LGBTQ nation, this is where we're getting this from. They say right-wingers lose their mind, but I look through that thread and there's plenty of people on the left that are also losing their mind about this stuff too. Absolutely. That's

one of the most annoying things about the discourse about trans stuff is the idea that the right-wing and Republicans are the worst of it. And, um, you know, sometimes people who pretend to be on your side, but aren't are worse than people who are at least honest about how much they hate you. Um, right. At least you know what to expect, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, cause I mean, I've, I've had that experience personally, you know, where people are like nice to my face and then like surreptitiously they're like, yeah, like if you treat your trans kid, like it's an okay thing, you're committing child abuse. And I was like, wait, what the fuck?

Like, and this was like, you know, somebody like I legitimately really, really cared about this guy. And, uh, you know, when it was, he was always really, really nice and, um, you know, said all of the right things, but like when it came really nice and, you know, said all of the right things, but like when it came down to it. You could just say Eli Bosnick. It's okay. You could just say Eli Bosnick. That's fine. Yeah. What do you think about Biden here? Biden feels like, you know, I know that I don't want to get into the whether or not Biden is creepy. Cause you know, that there's a, there's a whole rat's nest there that you could dig into. I don't know that

I even want to get into whether Biden is qualified either, because that's another whole thing. I know that for sure. Yeah, I know for sure that Biden was not my first choice. Biden was literally my last choice. Like of all the people that started on that stage, I was like, Marianne Williamson or Biden? Who's it going to be in the bottom slot?

And I wasn't sure she left before I could make that decision. So, you know, so I don't want to talk about it at political, but I do want to say like, like, you know, with this comment that he made, and I don't know if you saw recently, Biden also did this thing where he talked about the hundred thousand people who died. He did a little very heartfelt message to people talking about how, you know, our, our, uh, our thoughts are with you and that sort of thing. We see a level of presidential that, uh, that we just don't see normally, but you know, this is a, this is also a risky take in some ways for him to show that, you know, he stands with people that, you know, even his own side sometime doesn't like.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that was, uh, God, I'm scrolling through. There was the response that, yeah, careful, Joe, you're going to upset a lot of centrists and a lot of Republicans you're yeah well i mean that was uh god i'm scrolling through there was the the response yeah careful joe you're gonna upset a lot of centrists and a lot of republicans you're trying to reach out to you can't make everybody happy and you're shallow pandering to an astronomically marginalized group of people won't be enough to bring the left under the tent yeah oust trump jesus fucking christ uh and that goes back to who was at bill maher uh uh, that would call it a, what was a boot, a boutique issue. Trans rights are a boutique issue. Uh, when he was talking about Hillary Clinton talking about trans folks. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah. He called it a trans folks and bathroom access to bathrooms. He called it a boutique issue. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I

mean, you know, if we're confining our discussion specifically to this tweet, you know, it's something you like to see, right? Yeah. And if you look specifically at the LGBTQ related parts of his platform, it's, it's pretty cool. Like, I mean, it's, it's inclusive of non-binary folks, like giving people access to the X gender marker as part of his policy platform, which I think is pretty rad. What is that? Giving people X, the options to have X the X gender marker as part of his policy platform, which I think is pretty rad. Um, what is that giving people, uh, uh, X, the options to have X as a gender marker on their IDs instead of MRF. Oh, I see. Oh, that's, that's interesting. That's an interesting thing states, but it's not a nationwide thing. And that's part of the reason why like I would hesitate to do it, even if, I mean, I live in Kentucky, so I, this would probably be one of

the last States to do it. Uh, but if I had the option, I'm not sure I would. Right. Because like that's extra attention to the TSA and all of that. But like, if it's nationwide that, you know, that makes a difference. So that changes everything. Yeah. I mean, and it really makes a difference. Like people downplay that, but like having stuff on your identity documents like that really, like that's really important. Where do you stand when, when the, do you stand when the things opened up for the primary and you were thinking about who you're going to vote for, you know, in the Democratic primary, because you're not going to vote in the Republican primary.

So you're going to vote in the Democratic primary. Who is your number one candidate? And who do you think? And they might be different, right? These two answers might be different. Who was the number one candidate? And who do you think was the number might be different, right? These two answers might be different. Who was the number one candidate and who do you think was the number one candidate for LGBTQA issues? And are they, I mean, it might be one in the same, but who do you think was the one

that, you know, cause, cause I mean, you, as a person who's part of that community, that may change everything about how you look at a candidate and not look at a candidate too. I don't know. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and obviously like, I'm not just looking at things through, uh, through the, through that lens, but, um, overall I thought like if I could snap my fingers and implement all the policy dreams of a candidate, Bernie was my guy. Um, but in terms of who I had faith to actually accomplish things that would like get us like boots on the ground, practically closest to where I wanted to be, it would have been Warren. Um, and I, I kind of felt

that way overall and with queer and trans stuff, you know, of all the people up there, there was, there was so many people when Tom and I were going through, um, we had looked through all the, all the talking points and they had the list of all the talking points and where people stood. And we were both really happy with where people stood on LGBTQA issues. They were, they were very, they were, they were all very progressive. And I'm happy that, you know, even though so many of the things that, you know, I wish Biden were farther left on, at least he's, he's this far left on this topic. Yeah. And, but of course my, you know, my, my worry with that is that like, obviously it doesn't take a lot to write a bunch of paragraphs and put it on a website. And the question is like, how hard is he actually going to fight for that stuff when

it comes down to it? Right. It's true. It's true. Yeah. You don't know. Yeah. And so that's, that's the question Mark. And I think, um, I've kind of divested from having a lot of hope in politicians generally. Uh, I think, uh, that's weird. I don't understand why you're not just a brimming well of fucking political optimism. That's hang on. I'm making a lot of notes as we're talking here and I'm going to have to make, so, uh, let's get, let's get into this other piece. Cause this is something we talked about before. You know, we talked about the gay blood ban, which has been something that has happened in this country forever since the AIDS crisis, I think, is when it— I don't know if it started then or if it's always been something that's always been part of it. 1983, I think, is when it started.

Okay. I think it's that before you couldn't even donate if you were gay. Am I correct? So the most recent rule, my understanding was that you had to be abstinent for a year before you could give. Wow. I don't know if it was different when it was originally implemented, but my understanding of the policy as it was until very recently was that you had to be abstinent for a year if you were. And that's no different. That's very different if you're heterosexual, right? You don't even have to talk about your sexual history if you're heterosexual, right?

You know, to be honest, I'm not actually sure. I don't think you do. Cause I've given blood a lot and I don't remember anybody saying that. Maybe they just assume like I go and they're just like that guy. No, that's fine. Let him through.

You know what? Take it all out of there. That's clean as a whistle. Yeah. If you're a walking three's clean as a whistle. Yeah. If you're a walking three, you get it. No problem. Yeah.

There's nobody, nobody's going to be. You give off big bear energy, my friend. I would have very different assumptions if I didn't know you. Oh, man. Yeah.

But, but it was one of those things that, you know, we talked about recently that they've, they've eased it. And we got a lot of messages from people in and out of the community that are familiar with this and said it's not as rosy as people are making out that they did ease the ban. But first, the fact that the ban even exists is abhorrent. ban, but the first, the fact that the ban even exists is abhorrent. And then secondly, the idea that it's eased is not 100% either. And it could also just snap back at a later date.

Right. Because it's a policy thing. It's not something that's written into law. So it's very easy to just move back and forth. No, you would have to reinterpret it. I thought we went through this. You can't just- Oh, yeah, yeah. That's right. I'm sorry. That's outrageous. It's just a mischaracterization. To be fair to everybody involved, when they asked Trump about easing the rule, he said he didn't know

anything about it, but then later his spokespeople still claimed credit for it, which I find... Like, I love the... I love the, like, I so didn't have anything to do with it i didn't even know that it happened but if you liked it that was all me yeah and i did it was

all me what did i do again you like that it's it's it's like not even knowing what you're doing in bed you're like you like that yeah well what was it did you write it down i wasn't fucking paying attention i was just kind of in the zone. I wasn't sure. God damn. I was thinking about this spreadsheet at work. I don't know. That's right.

I'm going to pivot your tables. What the fuck? It's a weird Excel dirty talk. You're very good at it. That's so strange. Okay, but if you're trans, being trans doesn't necessarily mean that you're homosexual. So are there issues giving blood if you're trans?

You're giving them way too much credit for understanding what being trans is. You know, I haven't done research on what this, like this newer policy actually means for trans folks. But the latest understanding that I had is that trans women, for purposes of the policy, were considered to be men and had to follow the same rules in terms of sexual contact. So isn't that funny then? Because then that's a tacit acknowledgement, right? But only when it comes to how we can discriminate. Yeah. That's kind of, it's actually

kind of amazing. And like, it's like, oh, so, so say that again, we're considered, considered what again? No. Well, right. I gotcha. And I even remember looking at, because they did a blood drive at my old work. And I was like, I mean, I want to give blood. I think that's a good thing, generally speaking, for people to do. And I remember going to the website of the organization that was doing the blood drive. And I remember not really understanding what the rules and guidelines were for me specifically. not really understanding what the rules and guidelines were for me specifically. Well, I think it's safe to say that like you'll be discriminated against though. Like I think, I think that's like, if you're trans, just, just put yourself in whatever the most no category, that's probably the safest rule. You're in Kentucky for God's sake. And honestly, like what it came down to is like, I didn't want to walk into an RV with a bunch of my coworkers there with me and have a fucking conversation about like yes i had my penis surgically transformed into a vagina a few years ago i do have sex pretty regularly uh stranger so like can i give you blood

you know what i've got some video on my phone hang on you might like the technique jesus christ yeah um and so honestly it's it it's even like, it's stuff like that. And that's like a lot of people really try to downplay it when there's like threats of policy going bad or like the policy goes bad, but it's not as bad as people think it's going to be. Like it still has this chilling effect. Right. Uh, cause like I go to the website and I don't really understand what the policy is. Uh, but I'm also not gonna have a conversation about my genitals with my coworkers in earshot or with some random fucking asshole on an RV taking my blood, right?

Oh, now you're just being sensitive. Who doesn't like to... I talk to every stranger I can about my genitals. It's so crazy when you say that out loud because I think to myself, I think, you know, how... The only conversations I have about my genitals are on this show.

But the idea that you would have to go into a situation where someone would be like, yeah, but I want to know about your genitals. And you say, what the fuck did you just say to me? Like, those are almost fighting words anywhere else. But it seems like that's like a daily occurrence. On the inside of every suit I wear, I do have it labeled, you know, Tom asked me about my genitals. So I guess I'm giving him like a little bit of an out there. Yeah, no, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And it's,

I mean, even in just like regular conversation, like if I try to join into a conversation about sex with people that I don't know, like, you know, cause like, my name is Callie. That's a pretty stereotypically feminine name uh but like i've not really done any voice training i have a pretty stereotypically masculine voice and so i just get those looks like people look at me like wondering like okay so like they're talking about sex but like what is that for this person is there is there a penis is there a vagina is there a barbed stinger of some kind? Wait, I didn't know that was an option. I want to, I want the Swiss army knife option. Like if I could switch into something, it'd be like, no,

I'm going to, I'm going to choose the right tool for every job. That's what I'm going to do. I just, I, I apologize. I just let out very confidential information. You only get that if you go to the meetings. It's an expensive operation already. They call that the stinger. You're not allowed to use it anymore. It's a whole thing. I had to crowdfund for it. Insurance never covers it. Okay, so I'm going to ask you two questions that I may cut from the show because they may

be insensitive, but I'm going to do it anyway. I will preface, I will, I will preface your questions by saying that, uh, I am comfortable answering almost any question. And in fact, I am more likely to make folks uncomfortable by answering the questions than you are by asking, because I know you too. And I love you too. And I know that you're coming at this from a good place. It is very important to recognize that that is not a universal thing for trans folks. And the questions I'm about to be asked, you should probably not randomly ask your trans friends.

I will not. Okay. Good, good disclaimer. Okay. All right. A little late telling me that. I was on the live stream with you and you said your pronouns are they and them.

Yes. On this show, you have revealed that you've had vaginoplasty. You have, you have, and I don't, is it sex change? Did that,

it's not, that's not the wording anymore, is it? Not really. Okay, what's the wording? Gender reassignment? I just say bottom surgery.

Bottom surgery. Okay, so you've had bottom surgery. You are, you have, you have transitioned from where you were before to where you are now.

And I'm not going to make any assumptions about any of the other stuff, And I'm not going to make any assumptions about any of the other stuff, but I'm just going to say, and you chose your pronouns as they and them. Why they and them and not she and her? And I'm going to say this and I don't mean it in a way that's flippant,

but don't you think you earned she and her? No. Because I don't believe that anyone should have to earn the the the terminology or anything that that feels right to them okay um that's fair that's totally fair um because like you know if she and her were my pronouns and i still had a penis that would just be that would be just as valid absolutely a hundred percent hundred percent you're absolutely right and um so it's the the the non-binary figuring out thing is kind of a really long story, but I'll give you the cliff notes version. Um, so, you know, when I

initially started having trans feels, uh, I didn't know that non-binary people existed. And so we didn't either. And so you introduced us to one four years ago. So I'm still trying to figure that out. I just, I remember the, the look on your face, Tom, when we were, oh, it was so great. It's the same look. It hasn't changed. I've walked around with that look for four years. It's glad to, I'm glad to know that you've taken that time to grow. But like, you know, I still had a very binary understanding of gender. And so if one box

feels uncomfortable, the other box seems like the obvious choice. I see. I see. And you know, there's like, there's so much societal programming that goes into gender. Right. And so like, I liked a lot of very, very stereotypically feminine things. And at the time I felt like that was truly a sign of what my identity actually was. Um, and so that's kind of what I went with and it, and, you know, and it felt right for a time. Um, but I honestly think a lot of it had to do with the fact that I was so unhappy with the way that my body was arranged. Um, and so like, you know, I was on hormones for a couple of years and that was awesome. But, uh, having bottom surgery really, really was a turning point for me. And, you know, in the six to eight to 10 months or so after bottom surgery, I really, really started kind of

rethinking how I actually felt about my identity. And I really stopped caring so much about a lot of the more like, I don't want to use the word superficial because it's not superficial to some people, but it seemed superficial to me to like be obsessing about, uh, you know, clothes and shoes and hair and makeup and, and, and fingernails and that kind of stuff. Like that stuff's very important to people. And I honor and respect that, but I was learning that it really was not to me and really was not, uh, any sign of who I actually was. Um, and I had a couple of experiences and those are like the long stories that would take forever to tell. But, and I had a couple of experiences and those are like the long stories that would take forever to tell. But like, I had a couple of experiences that were kind of like,

gosh, like the, the label of like woman or trans woman kind of started to feel like a t-shirt that didn't fit is kind of like the best way to describe it. Like it wasn't entirely wrong, but it wasn't super comfortable either. Um, and so I just did a lot of thinking about it. And I just asked a really close group of friends, like, want to try out they them uh because you know the the term non-binary feels actually a lot more like it's an accurate description of how i feel about myself and um and i like there are non-binary folks who use she her and he him and that's yeah that's all fine sure um but i was like you know I was just kind of like talking out loud to myself about myself and just like seeing what sounded the best to me. And I was like, you know,

I actually think I like that. And so, uh, I had a talk with, uh, Celeste, my wife, and I asked her, uh, and I asked some of my, uh, some of my teammates who are the folks that I spend the most time around pre pandemic, of course. Um, like, Hey, I just like want to try this on for like a month and see how it fits. Um, and it just feels so much more comfortable to me. Uh, and so I'm like, well, that's, that's where I'm at now. I see, you know, and it occurs to me just as we just had this conversation that somebody's pronouns per certainly could evolve as they change as a human being. Like it never really occurred to me until just this moment that we had the conversation that you could change your perspective on your pronouns and that's perfectly fine. And how you define yourself today might not be how you define yourself tomorrow.

Yeah. Like stuff is fluid sometimes and that's okay. Like, um, cause it, like, you know, if I'm looking back at, you know, me four years ago, like, I don't think I was diluting myself. Like I, I was reporting my feelings very honestly at that time about who I was. Um, and I don't know if it's like I've uncovered stuff that was there all along or if my feelings actually changed. Like, I don't really know. Um, but like, I think it's okay that that stuff is fluid sometimes. Uh, and, um, I mean, we all like learn shit about ourselves and change like as time goes on and like that can happen with gender and sexuality too. Uh, and honestly, like, I think that's, I've come to a point where I think that's kind of exciting, honestly, because like when,

when I hear people say like, Oh, like I'm, you know, I'm trying on a new set of pronouns, I'm trying on a new name. Like I'm really excited for that person. Cause that means that they're like doing that self exploration and figuring things out about themselves. And I think that's fucking rad. Cause it's been, and obviously like I'm speaking from a position of privilege, right? Because I don't, um, you know, I'm not rich, but I don't have money problems. I'm pretty comfortable. I've got a comfortable place to stay, all of that kind of stuff. And so there's a lot of oppression that trans folks experience that I'm exempt from because of my class. Um, and, and so like there's a little bit of, you know, opportunity to do those things and be happy about those things that I'm exempt from because of my class. Um, and, and so like, there's a little bit of, you know, opportunity to do those things and be happy about those things that I have that other

folks don't. Um, but, but I, for me, it is an exciting process because it's constantly, it's constant self-exploration and just like figuring out what feels good in terms of like the way people talk about you and to you. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's been a very happy process for me. I wanted to follow up a little bit. I'm curious, like with he, her, like there's all these signals, there's all these social cues, there's all these social signals and we've kind of generally agreed upon them. And so certain assumptions are made and whether they're good assumptions or bad is sort of immaterial. But like, what is the way around that? You know what I mean? Like, I don't think it's immaterial. I think it's very material because the, I mean, it is extremely easy

to not make those assumptions about people if you decide that it's a priority. Um, because, um, Um, because, um, I, gosh, probably for the last year or so, uh, I've almost never gendered a person, uh, without like hearing someone who knows them do it first or having them introduce themselves that way. It's, it's really not that difficult, honestly. Like, um, should that be to be kind? Should that be the standard? Do you think? Yeah, absolutely. I think so. Yeah. Um, I try to do it in email. If I don't recognize the name is

masculine or feminine, I try to do it in email, but I guess maybe I should just do it in general. Yeah. I was going to say, cause that I should just do it in general for everybody because it seems like, it seems like that's the one that, that will be the one that's easy, most easily accepted. What I normally do is like, so first of all, you can use positive identifiers, right? Like you talk about like the hat someone's wearing or the shirt they're wearing. Like I do that at conferences, right? Like if I'm calling on someone and I'm trying to like point out the person that I'm talking to, it's like, Oh, my friend in the blue shirt, you know, my friend with the red hat, like that kind of stuff. And you know, and if you use

somebody's name, it's really easy to use someone's name instead of their pronouns. And like, it might feel a little bit awkward at first. Um, but like I, you know, address a room full of people as friends or comrades, uh, instead of guys or, uh, ladies and gentlemen, I had a, I had a professor used to call everybody gang. He'd come in the room and be like, Hey gang. He would just say gang all the time. And at first I didn't understand why he did it. And then he did it because I recognized that he did it because he didn't want to gender the room, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's not, you know, I recognize that like, because this is the world that I live in and certain ways that I think my brain is just

sort of innately wired. It's very, very easy for me to shift language. And I know it's not for everyone. Um, but I think it's, I think it's a worthwhile effort. Uh, if you want to, if you want to really be inclusive of folks, um, because like, I mean, even if there were a tiny, tiny, tiny number of us, it would still matter, but there's also not a tiny number of us. Like you just don't realize that we're among you. We are among you. Let me ask you a more awkward question. All right. you ready? Yes, let's do it. You ready for the more awkward? So there are women. Seven inches. Seven inches.

These are. There are women who are, who do not accept trans people as in sort of the feminist circles. So women say that those women did not experience the same kind of discrimination that those other, that the women who were born as women experienced their whole life. What do you think about that type of an

argument? I know that that's a tension, and part of me understands the tension, but I'm just curious where you stand on it. It's so incredibly reductive, right? Because by using that argument, I could argue that rich women aren't really women. How so? How so? A rich woman. They're just, they're just, they're just incredibly privileged. For example, for example, a rich woman will literally never lose the right to an abortion, right? Because they can afford to go where they might still be afraid in a parking garage. Right. Sure. Sure. Sure.

But I mean, maybe like if they're rich enough that they don't have to work, you know what I mean? Like you can in the same way that those folks are trying to carve out pieces of the experience that trans women may not experience. There are other ways that you can carve out those experiences to exclude them from the experience of women as a whole as well. I see. It's kind of the point that I'm getting at. So the foundational thing is that there's a really,

really important difference between growing up as a man and growing up as a closeted trans woman. Those are very, very different experiences. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. And so like, you know, if you're going to draw the line there, like we've got to draw lines other places too. Right. Because, uh, because black women and white women certainly do not walk through the world in the same way because of the society that we live in. Right. Um, and like, and there are meaningful differences that need to be talked about there. Right. Um, and so like, sure, there are meaningful differences, uh, sometimes between the experiences of cis women and trans women for sure um but so much that like they're not allowed to be accepted under that umbrella like i don't i don't accept that um and and i mean i can speak from my own personal experience even as a relatively privileged person like it took me a fucking week to experience misogyny for the first time. You know what I mean? And it's also like ironically reducing women to their

biology, which is something that feminists are not supposed to be about. Right. You know, if you don't have a uterus and a vagina, you can't be oppressed like a woman is oppressed. Therefore, you're not one. Um, and it's like, I mean, women are supposed to be more than their biology in the first place. Right. So tell us about, uh, I know that you're, you're, you're doing work as, as a, as a professional now as a sound editor, and you also have a podcast queer explaining. If no one has heard this podcast, tell our audience about it. Yeah. So, uh, as, as we've kind of discussed, like mainstream reporting and storytelling about queer and trans folks is often terrible. Uh, it's usually not told by people who are members of the community. Uh, and the audience is almost never people in the community. Um,

you know, queer and trans experiences often very, very much reduced to, um, you know, I struggled with myself and then I came out and it was happy or, uh, I hated myself until I had bottom surgery and now everything's great. Like it's, it's a very reductive conversation that gets had. And, um, and like I said, they're, those stories are not often written with us as their actual intended audience. And so, you know, I used to do the gay theist manifesto, which is like, you know, LGBTQ plus atheism and that kind of stuff. And I got more interested in more strictly storytelling kind of stuff. And so what I do now is generally I will find a person with a story to tell. So like, for example, a recent episode I did with a trans man who was a

singer, uh, very into theater. And, uh, when he started taking testosterone, it kind of messed up a singing voice and he had to work really hard to get a singing voice back. And there's a great story behind it. Um, and so it's stuff like that, like sort of intimate portraits of, you know, a moment in someone's life that illustrates some larger point about the lives of queer trans folks. Um, and so it's, it's not like a, like, you know, this show, it's like an interview and it's people in conversation. It's more like public radio storytelling stuff. Sure. And so this person tells their story, I'll interview them for an hour, sometimes two or three hours and, uh, you know, cut the best stuff out, write narration, do scoring, sometimes sound design and put together a story.

So it's more like, I don't know. I don't know that I would call every episode art necessarily, but it's a little bit more artistic. Sure, I get it. I understand. Like this show is art. Yeah, okay. Oh, sure, sure.

Okay, okay. Not a lot of takers on that one. Nope, nope, nope. So if people were going to find you, Callie, if they're going to find your podcast Callie, if they're going to find your, your, your podcast and your, uh, where would they look? Uh, any podcast app, you should be able to find it. I, uh, I did a redirect and fucking nail biting to make sure that it didn't screw things up. And it seems like it doesn't. So whatever app you listen to podcasts in, you should be able to

find Queersplaining and also queersplaining.com. Callie, it was absolutely enlightening talking today. Thank you so much for joining us and for being so open. And so, I mean, just, it's wonderful to talk to somebody who's willing to train two dumb cis guys. So thank you so much.

Thank you. I'm going to go cry now. Thanks. Okay. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I love you both. Thank you very much for having me.

Thanks for coming on. Now, Pramila, I know it's scary in that there witness box, but ain't no need to fear me. I'm sorry. I thought you was corn. So, this story comes from BBC.com. I saw this story like in five places,

and I grabbed it from BBC because it seems obviously more reputable, but it's fucking ridiculous. Pakistani villager urges india to return spy pigeon spy here is in quotes and here's why it's in quotes i'm just gonna go and read part of this a pakistani villager has urged indian prime minister narendra modi to return his pigeon currently being held in India on charges of spying. So they're holding the pigeon on charges of spying.

You have to charge a pigeon when you hold it? Does it help? We can't. Can you see some like hard-bitten fucking detective like, Johnson, we can't hold a pigeon over 24 hours past questioning

without charging him. Have we got enough to hold the pigeon? God damn. Get me some. What? It's a pigeon. I think that they didn't get anywhere with their questioning

because it's not a stool pigeon, Tom. I mean, let's be honest. You questioned that thing for a long time. It's not good. for a long time. It's not good. The pigeon has been charged. What?

His attorney just shows up. He's like, well, I'm just a simple country chicken. When they take the pigeon, do they put it in like the general lockup with the other people? This guy across the cell, what are you in here for? You don't want to know.

I'd like to call as my first character witness, General So. Oh, man. It's so good. What is even happening? You have to ask the fucking Indian prime minister, like some fucking villagers, like, can I have my pet back?

It's weird. Yeah, sorry. We don't know where he is. We had to put out an APB, an all pigeon bulletin, to see if we could find him. We're not sure if we can. You know, you'd think he'd be a little more upset, but he was unflappable about the whole thing.

Oh, man. Oh, God. He's never getting out. He doesn't have a fucking wing and a prayer to get out of it. You know, Tom, this is for the birds. I mean, literally. Oh, God. Let's not squabble though I mean let's not

everybody's like fuck you and your dad jokes everyone's turned this thing off at this point so the police they said the pigeon had a ring on one of its legs inscribed with a code and they were trying to decipher it you know what it was though Tom know what it was, Tom? It was glory at checkout.

That was what the code was. AdamandEve.com was on the other leg. They didn't look there. I love because the villager's like, that's my phone number. You would think

they would check that like, oh, again, let me call it. Beep, beep, beep, beep beep beep beep beep beep and then his phone rings you're like all right we don't want to look stupid having arrested a pigeon when he answers the phone do you think he answers the pigeon's name he's like harold is that you it'd be great you know it's like it's like writing the fucking address on a fucking kid's backpack. You know?

If found, keep him. You know, the level of distrust between two countries is high when they're arresting each other's fault. Yeah, exactly. And the foul play. It was foul play the whole time. Okay, so we're outside the ladies' locker room here, and we're going to do something that we do every year. It's the deputy panty raid.

It's just for fun. It's more for them than for us. It really is. It boosts up their morale. Yeah, these are older ladies. We don't really care what their panties look like, but it puts a spring in their step. It makes them feel better.

Yeah, it does. So here we go with the deputy panty raid ready three two one Panty raid! Oh hey gang. Oh god. Is panty raid time again? Oh no. Go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go Can someone help me check my Just straight comes from Metro.co.uk A woman takes off knickers and uses Them as face masks so she can get Served. Knickers sounds so naughty It sounds so

Naughty. This is Fucking amazing. There's video There's video of this. Oh yeah. This woman is like I think she's at the post office in The Ukraine in Kiev And she goes to the counter and she's not wearing a face mask. And they're like, no, no shoes, no shirt, no face mask, no service. And they're like, well, you didn't say no pants.

So she takes off her leggings and takes off her underwear. She's wearing a long coat. It looks like she's wearing a long coat that covers what she needs to cover. And so she just drops trowel right there, pulls her fucking underwear off and puts them over her head and walks up to the counter. It's the most outstanding video I've ever seen. You know that there's a bunch of fucking

panty sniffer fetishists right now that are like, oh my God. I got to go to the post office so bad. I got all these letters to mail. They're just standing at that little kiosk, slowly filling them out, waiting for the one person to come in

and put their knickers on their head. It's going to happen to me today. Today's my lucky day. You can't win if you don't play. I'm never leaving. Oh, man. But it's, I mean, literally, cold as shit just stands

right in the middle of the room. And the funny thing is, is it's on a tape where it's clearly a CCV camera and it's being recorded with a cell phone. The CCV is recording, being recorded, because it's on someone's computer screen. So they're recording it with a cell phone. The CCV is recording, being recorded because it's on someone's computer screen.

So they're recording it with a cell phone and you could hear this couple of people talking and you can hear them and they're speaking clearly in a different language and they're just laughing their ass off watching this lady- Because it's amazing. Drop her leggings and put panties over her own panties.

She huffs her own panties. She didn't even get them out of a fucking vending machine in Japan and she huffed her own panties. She's like, I'm getting fucking served. Lady, with that kind of attitude, you're not going to have a hard time getting served. You know, the funniest thing is she was at the post office. She was a mail order bride. All right. Well, that was.

All right. Well, what was the name on the order? Spider-Man. That's very clever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dennis, ask him how it's possible for him to talk to you through a cut phone wire. How is it possible for you to talk to me through a cut phone? I cut it when I found the pizza.

Holy shit. Dennis is Spider-Man. No one is Spider-Man. So stories from the New York Post. Boys let Black Widow bite them in hopes of turning them into Spider-Man. Three young Bolivian brothers were hospitalized after getting Black Widow spiders to bite them thinking

it would turn them into Spider-Man, according to officials. So I have a story about this. So I lived when I was a kid from about, I don't know, garbage age to garbage age. I was little. I was before, I was somewhere before first grade. I was a fucking huge Spider-Man fan. Like I fucking loved Spider-Man, thought it was great. Don't know why I didn't read the comic books. I have no idea why that got in my head. Lived in Florida. I used to go around in my property. We had like an acre or so of property. Some of it was kind of wooded. And I would no shit stick my hands into piles of like brush and leaves and under rocks, trying to get bitten by shit. And I would get bitten by shit.

And then I would run over to the house and try to lift up the house because I thought I was going to get super power. I literally did the same thing. I just was lucky enough to get bitten by things that didn't kill me or make me spectacular. I would see. So I ran around. I remember doing it.

I ran around sticking my hand in the like. I can't believe that. I was a fucking five-year-old. So I thought I was going to get fucking spider powers. Wow. So I was like, I just, all I need to do is like endure getting bit by something or stung. And I would get stung and bit by whatever was in the crevice, man. In Florida, where like all of Florida is poisonous and covered in urine.

It's one or the other. That's it. It's covered in fucking urine or poisonous. That's the only options in Florida. And then I would immediately run to the house and grab the house and try to lift up the house. I'm like, oh, that's insane. It didn't work. That's insane. Yeah. When I read the story, when I read the story, did it all the time. When I read the story, it never occurred to me that that would have been a problematic story

for children to hear until I read it and thought, you know what? As a kid, you are pretty stupid. And so you would think, and so immediately when I heard it today,

I thought, oh, that's a pretty, that's actually a really kind of a dumb origin story to have to make people think that that's what's going to, you know. I mean, you know, the Hulk's origin story is that he gets irradiated

by a nuclear bomb or he gets irradiated in the lab, but that's a lot harder to come by than a spider, you know? Yeah, I figure like if you figure that out, like you earned it. Yeah. It's alright. Like if you're a little kid and you like break into a fucking gamma radiation

lab or some shit. At that point, yeah. Yeah, you've earned that. But for the most part, most of the origin stories that I can think of

are not based on anything that a child could possibly do. But that one is, you know, it's a radioactive spider, but it doesn't matter in a kid's mind, you know?

So that's interesting. Yeah, you have no idea which spiders are radioactive. So like, you're just hoping to's interesting. Yeah, you have no idea which spiders are radioactive. So like, you're just hoping to find one. Like, oh, maybe I'll get it. As if like the fucking spider being radioactive would help spiders at all.

That would help. That probably wouldn't help very much, yeah. Yeah. This story just cracked me up because I was like, oh, I literally did this. I used to do this. Oh, thank you, sir. And don't you worry.

Why, we'll make Rockridge think it's a chicken Oh, thank you, sir. And don't you worry. Why, we'll make Rockridge think it's a chicken that got caught in a tractor's nuts. Blended! That's all right. Shh. It's all right, Taggart. Just a man and a horse being hung out there. Shh.

Do, do, do, do, do, do. This story comes from the mirror.co.uk parrot who heard victims last words to give evidence in rape and murder trial so like what yeah

I read this and I was like like were they like oh man it's so weird that her last words were, I want a cracker. It was very unexpected. Oh, come on. Yes, she was a pretty bird. No, but you know, one of the things that, and I'm dead serious. What the last, what the thing that they're saying is, and this is an English translation, is no, please let me go.

And I'm thinking, and they're saying they're going to use that as evidence. Like, evidence of what? That the rape didn't happen by natural causes? What are we talking about here? I thought the same thing, because one of the other things the parrot supposedly said is,

why did you beat me? And it's like, okay, I think we can establish without the parrot that this woman did not want to be raped and murdered. Like, I think, like, that's just definitional to rape and kind of a big part of murder. I'm not sure what the parrot adds other than a little color to the story.

Exactly, right? I don't know why the parrot's even there. And then could you imagine them bringing that parrot onto the stands? Having to, like, coax it out of them? And also... I would need you to put one wing on this Bible. I mean, none of this can be true because seriously,

you could have just taught the parrot to do that an hour ago. It's not... There's no... What are you... It doesn't even make any sense. None of the story, it doesn't make any sense at all. I didn't even think of that. Like,

it'd be amazing if like the defense side also gets some time with the parent. They're just like, Alex did it. Rob didn't fit. Must've quit. What is happening? Like how desperate is your fucking case that you're like, I now call crackers to the stand.

Like, what are you lying? Yeah. It's not like they're going to be able to ask a question and the parent can then answer the question, right? It's not that your honor. I object.

Parent. It's just sitting there. No. What's your next question, sir? Yeah, no, sure.

Absolutely. He's not just sitting there. No, what's your next question, sir? Yeah, no, sure. He's not fucking Toucan Sam. He's a fucking parrot, man. Objection leading the witness. He's parroting everything you say, sir. Fucking Froot Loops, this thing. Flying through. Follow your nose.

It's so fucking stupid. I don't believe a word of it. I don't believe a word of it. I don't believe a word of it i don't believe a word of it either but i like my favorite part of the story is like what the parrot is supposed to have overheard is like immaterial like i would just if i was the defense i would just grant to be like yeah all right so when she was murdered she was like i would prefer i wasn't murdered is this a fake newspaper though like is it a fake newspaper though? Like, is it a fake paper? The mirror,

the mirror is legit. Not legitimate, but it's a real. It doesn't make any sense at all. None of this story makes any sense. I fucking love this. Amazing. I love it.

They call, they called her cat as a character witness. There's like fucking golden retrievers showing up with like piles of letters from Santa just expert witnesses

Ace Ventura pet detective what is happening can you imagine like you're too little he's just talking to all the animals

and everybody's saying but how do I know you're not lying to me I can't understand that the parrot just said blah blah, but how do I know you're not lying to me? I can't understand that. The parrot just said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It didn't say anything. You're saying the parrot said,

no, and then he held her down and beat the shit out of her. But I don't believe you, Dr. Doolittle. So I want to thank our patrons. Of course, we want to thank all our patrons. We want to thank our patrons. Of course, we want to thank all our patrons. We want to thank our newest patrons, of course, people who just signed up.

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Got a few emails. We want to start with Disfigured Peacock. He sends us a message and he said, hey, I just want to let you guys know that you're wrong about Trump being severely obese by the standards of the CDC. that his own mission is true, that how much he weighs is true. He is 80 pounds, according to this person, 80 pounds too light to be considered morbidly obese. So we don't know, to be perfectly frank, we don't know. But when you think about how big that has to be for his supposed height, he's supposed to be 6'3". Supposedly with his height, he'd need to be over three bills, 311 pounds, I thought I read. So he'd have to be pretty heavy. Point taken, if that's the case, maybe he's not morbidly obese.

Yeah. And if we were wrong about that, I'm sorry for being wrong. Yeah. I think we were just mistaken. Got a message about the RFID chips we were talking about last time. Jacob sends a message and he says, the funniest thing about these conspiracy theorists worrying about RFID chips we were talking about last time. Jacob sends a message and he says, the funniest thing about these conspiracy theorists worrying about RFID is that it doesn't have its own power source. Like, what are you going to do? You just inject a chip and it doesn't do anything. Just floats around in your body.

It's like microchipping your dog or cat. They're RFID chips, right? Like, it's just chipping your dog or cat. You got to pass the fucking wand over it. You can't like fucking, where's my cell phone, your dog. You got to pass the fucking wand over it. You can't like fucking where's my cell phone your dog. We got a message

from Brian and Brian said he was talking about Soul Worlds and he said in Seattle they had a bridge a 520 bridge that was built

and they placed tolls to help pay for it. 16 years later it was discovered that 90% of the tolls collected went to paying for the private company costs

to collect the tolls while the rest went to paying off the loan and the state quickly ended the toll when collected went to paying for the private company costs to collect the tolls, while the rest went to paying off the loan. And the state quickly ended the toll when it became public knowledge. Gosh, what happened when government could feel shame, Tom? What was that like? I was just thinking the same thing. When you could find out that there was a scandal, and then people would be like, well, we should stop the scandal. Now we're just like, well, so what? There was never a scandal you're a scandal your mom's a scandal everybody's doing the jedi mind trick that didn't happen they just keep waving their

hand in your face that didn't happen here's an executive order saying that was not it's not a scandal anymore except well you did you see this week and i i know we talked a little bit about it but trump uh trump went after twitter because they fact-checked him? Yeah, he tweeted some shit about how mail-in ballots would increase fraud. And Twitter was like, all right, fucking enough is enough with this shit. And so then they fact-checked him. And now he signed a fucking totally meaningless, toothless, bullshit executive order basically removing the carve-out that social media companies have. Yeah, it's not even that it's, it's where they're,

he's saying that the FCC could maybe investigate that carve out. That's all it was. Yeah. It's even more toothless than you thought. Yeah. So like social media companies would then be liable for the content that lives on their site. And the best part of that is like, even if that executive order, which has no effect, but even if that executive order, which has no effect, but even if that executive order, like, went into place, all that would mean is that if you're Twitter or Facebook, you would do more policing of content, which means you do more fact checking of assholes like Trump. It would have the opposite effect. It would have the exact opposite effect.

Well, I saw somebody comment recently about this. They're saying, look at how fast Trump reacted to the Twitter thing versus how quickly he reacted to the COVID thing. That tells you everything you need to know about how he treats the world. If it's about him, he's 100% on it and doing something about it. You know, we've seen such a corruption

of government under him. It's unbelievable. Look, I know government was corrupted before. And I know that that's the whataboutism that everybody always screams, right? It's like, well, government's always been corrupt. Look at the blatant corruption that's coming out. Recently, those people had their investigations

by the SEC and other places that were investigating the stock sale because of COVID. These people in this briefing, they're all senators. They find out about this briefing that COVID's a big deal and it's going to maybe cause some real problems. And they all fucking dump

all their stock. And they stopped investigating all of them except for the one that said that Trump, that there was a connection to Russia in the last election. That guy who came out and headed a team of Republicans

that actually came out on the side that said there was something to do with the election in Russia. Yeah, he's still under investigation. The rest of them are all dropped. It's like we have the least trustworthy government, I think. Nixon is vastly more trustworthy. Nixon was vast. Like, did you see the tweets about Joe Scarborough? Yeah.

Or he could just say that out loud. He's like he's he's like tweeting like maybe fucking Joe Scarborough from Morning Joe killed somebody. And like that guy was like 800 miles away when that woman died. Like the woman, the staffer fucking died. She died of a fucking heart attack. Yeah. She was not murdered at all. She died of a heart heart attack. Yeah. She was not murdered at all. She died of a heart attack.

She fell. She hit her head. She died. Fucking Joe, fucking morning Joe was like 800 miles away when it happened. And our president's like, I don't know, maybe killed her. Maybe it was an affair. He was killing her. Did you see the tweet of God this week when the tweet of God basically came out on Twitter

and said, made up a story about Trump killing somebody? Did you see the tweet of God this week when the tweet of God basically came out on Twitter and said, made up a story about Trump killing somebody? Did you see this? Hold on a second. I'll read it. So the tweet of God came out to prove a point, tweeted, Donald Trump killed his personal assistant, Carolyn Gombel, in October 2000. He strangled her because he had gotten her pregnant and was threatening to tell the press. He bribed the NYPD chief, Bernie Carrick, to cover it up. It's time to investigate justice for Carolyn. And then started tweeting a big long tweet storm about it. And it's all made up.

A hundred percent. None of it is true. It's a hundred percent made up, but they're doing it to prove a point that Twitter isn't, if they're not going to take down Trump's, they sure as fuck won't take down God's. God, I think, even has more people

that follow them on Twitter than Trump. They're making a point of saying, okay, fine, if it's the Wild West, then it's just the Wild West about what we could say about people then. If that's how it is, then that's how it is. We live in a country where the President of the United States

just made a baseless claim about one of its citizens because he doesn't like what he says about it. A claim about murder. Yeah. A murder. The guy killed somebody else. Like, doesn't this call into question, like, the utility of a platform like Twitter? Yeah.

Like, if I'm a Twitter user, wouldn't I be like, all right, that's not for this. Like, that's just not. Like, I just. Like, this is not. This is for cat memes. You know, the internet is just for cat memes now it's for cat memes. And so I can remember how to tie a fucking tie every now and again when I just inexplicably forget. Yeah. That's the whole utility of the internet and to do my banking. Yeah. Well, uh, I want to post a picture this week about this story, about the

Twitter story. Um, this is from Aaron. We're going to post it on this week's show notes. Um, it's a Donald Trump image. We're going to post it this week. Um, this episode is from Aaron. We're going to post it on this week's show notes. It's a Donald Trump image. We're going to post it this week. This episode is 526. Got a message from Sarah. And Sarah, it looks like Sarah sent a picture of their Starbucks open with giant sheets of paper spelling open on the window, which is what you would need for your Starbucks, Tom. I saw. It's so funny that she sent that because I was driving to work today.

I was actually talking to Ian when I was doing it. I was driving to work today. I was actually talking to Ian when I was doing it. I was driving to work today. The roads are empty and I saw a Starbucks literally with the same thing. Sheets of paper in the windows that said, I crossed two lanes of traffic.

I was like, there was nobody on the road. So it was fine. Also, Sarah said that she lives in Northern California. In Northern California, when the power goes out, they don't have any Wi-Fi.

They don't have any cell signal. And since they don't have electricity, they also don't have any water because it's like well water. Jesus! Get out of wherever you live. Live a place where civilized humans... Get out of your cave dwelling. I will say this, though.

The best part about going is when your power goes out, you go back in time and Trump wasn't president then. So that's great. Worth it. Got a message from Will from Oregon and he just wanted to point out that the QAnon nominee in Oregon is just the Republican nominee.

I thought we mentioned that last time, but we want to make it clear that they were just the nominee. Same thing when I mentioned the Nazi that ran here in Illinois, they were just the nominees. Same thing when I mentioned the Nazi that ran here in Illinois. They were running against a guy here whose seat was not going to be taken over by a Nazi. The Nazi just stood outside a jewel and didn't tell people about their platform, how much they hated other people, and had people sign it.

They only needed 500 signatures. So I get it. I understand that that's why. But what makes me crazy is if you should care more about your party, that someone in your party is that person, right? So if they're on the ballot, if you find out that some QAnon person or some Nazi is on the ballot, you should beat the bushes in your area.

Even if you know you're going to get your ass handed to you in the fucking regular election, you should beat the bushes in your area so you're not so fucking embarrassed that some asshole who's like, yeah, man, I just fucking, I don't know. It could be the aliens. Let's get rid of that guy. He shouldn't be a, he shouldn't be the democratic nominee. That's what I'm saying. There shouldn't be a Democrat. That's like, well, I don't know. Do black people deserve human rights? That guy shouldn't be on the list. Like, wouldn't the Republican Party reject this guy?

Like, if you would reject him from the dinner party, wouldn't you like reject them from your political party? Exactly, yeah. We want to thank Callie Wright for joining us today. We had a great time talking to them.

They have a podcast called The Queersplaining Podcast. You can check that out on this week's show notes. If you go to 526, you can get a link directly called the Queer Explaining Podcast. You can check that out on this week's show notes. If you go to 526, you can get a link directly to the Queer Explaining Podcast. We want to thank Kelly again.

Wonderful guest. Very happy they could come on. That is going to wrap it up for this week. Be sure to check out our live stream next week. We're going to be 9 p.m. live, so come check it out and hang out with us live. We had just an impromptu conversation this week about what's going on in Minnesota.

So go check it out. If you're a patron, you can get that directly to your feed, your audio feed. But if you're not a patron, you can go check out the video on YouTube. I think it's on Facebook too. And you can watch the video. We talked a little bit about what's going on in Minnesota.

So you can go watch that and listen to that. We also covered a couple of stories. There are a lot of fun to do. So if you miss it afterwards, show up, watch the video, comment, like, share it, let people know that they're happening. We'd love it if people would go interact with some of this video content we're creating

because we think it's really good content and we think you really enjoy it. So go check it out. The links are on our website and on our social media. Thank you so much for joining us. We're going to wrap it up like we always do with the Skeptic's Creed. Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo quasi alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramician, Double Bubble, Toil and Trouble, Pseudo-Quasi-Alternative, Acupunctuating, Pressurized, Stereogram, Pyramidal, Free Energy, Healing, Water, Downward Spiral, Brain Dead, Pan, Sales Pitch, Late Night Info-Docutainment. Death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls, Bigfoot, Yeti, aliens, churches, mosques, and synagogues.

Temples, dragons, giant worms, Atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches, wizards, vaccine nuts. Shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, doublespeak, stigmata, nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands. Bloody. Evidential. Conclusive. Doubt even this. The opinions and information provided on this podcast are intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions are solely that of Glory Hole Studios, LLC. Cognitive dissonance makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information and will not be liable for any errors, damages, or butthurt arising from consumption. All information is provided on an as-is basis.

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