Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 586: V4C 2019 Part 11

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

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Today's show is brought to you by AdamandEve.com. Go to AdamandEve.com right now and you'll get 50% off just about any item. All you have to do is enter the code word GLORY, G-L-O-R-Y, at checkout. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. Recording live from Glur Hole Studios in Chicago, this is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence. Too many topics that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad.

It's skeptical, it's political, and there is no welcome at this episode 586 and i'm so glad that you brought that up on screen just as i got to that point because i had literally no idea what episode it was again thank you cecil are you i have a question for you are you excited for round two of covid because our numbers are up 119% on a 14-day trend. I saw. So I'm just curious, how's your round two feeling, buddy? That Delta variant isn't great, it turns out. Delta variant.

Delta variant in conjunction with people that are stupid and don't want to fucking get vaccinated. I got emails from our schools this week, yesterday. I'm in school with grade school kids, kids who are not eligible for the vaccine. Masks are optional. Wow. In defiance of CDC guidelines.

Wow. In Illinois. Are we trying to make it? Are we daring this thing? I don't even understand it. I don't get it at this point. It feels like a troll disease. For real real it feels like somebody looked at everybody and said you know i'm gonna do i'm gonna make a disease that people will shun a vaccine shun

every way to to to prevent it and uh and and then i'm gonna see what happens to those people and essentially we're just like, I mean, it really feels like, it feels like a practical joke. Yeah. Because it's fucking, this is a pandemic set on easy mode. Yeah.

All day long. And like, we're walking around like, like kick me. I'm COVID signs on our backs. We're fucking punked. It's outrageous. It's outrageous.

It's not going to get any better. And there's places I, it's funny because we talked a couple of weeks ago. We're excited that the numbers were going down. The CDC changed the guidelines. You and I were both wondering what was going to get any better. And there's places I, it's funny because we talked a couple of weeks ago, we're excited that the numbers were going down. The CDC changed the guidelines. You and I were both wondering what was going to happen. And both of us were like, wow, that's great. The numbers seem to be trending down. And we waited a couple of weeks to take a look at those numbers. And then I looked and they still are going down in other places where there's a vaccine. There's a lot of vaccine. They're still going down. They're still at a lower-

Super hyper regional at the moment. But the man, the people that don't have the vaccines and that aren't, that are shunning the vaccines, those curves are turning up fast. Sharply. Turning up fast.

And this, you know, the Delta variant isn't one of those things that you can fuck around with. It basically gives you more COVID quicker. Yeah. It's crazy. And it's, you know, it's great that we happen to live in a pocket of the country that is fairly well vaccinated,

but about 20% of people can't get the vaccine. Can't even get it. So at some point, because none of those boundaries are real, like those people are going to start to get sick. And there's like this narrative that, you know, like, oh, it's less dangerous for kids. It's less dangerous for sure than it is for older people.

But it still kills three times as many kids as the flu does. And we take the flu real seriously. Real seriously, yeah. And now we have a disease that, if the only thing this thing did was kill 300% more kids than the flu did, we would be raising our hands and being like, maybe we don't want our kids to get

it. But because, I think because as a point of contrast, it is so much less dangerous for kids. We're discounting the danger for 20% of our population. And we also have to remember that kids are around other people. Dude, they fucking booger slobber

on each other. Well, they don'toger slobber on each other. Well, and they don't live in isolation. We don't put our kids in a fucking camp and they stay there all summer. They come back to us. Yeah. And then we're adults. And so our immune systems can't handle this as well. And people that are older, grandparents,

their immune systems can't handle it as well. Spread it to immune compromised folks. Go to immune compromised folks. Like everybody who says like, oh, it's not so bad for me, oh, it's not so bad for me or oh, it's not so bad for kids. They forget that other people can get it from those people.

I don't, and like, we're also just creating 20% of the population is vector machines now. Like, or not vector, but not like a variant machine. I don't want the fucking Omega variant. Right, thank you.

It's like they get, so far we haven't had a variant that like hugs and kisses you and tucks you in at night. They just get worse. There hasn't been one that's been, that's been, you get it and it turns you into the sniffles.

There hasn't been one like that yet. We have yet to have a virus that like, well, my dick is 30% longer. What? Amazing. I can't believe it. It's fucking doing little blue pills of COVID. God, it's making me nuts.

It's making me nuts, Cecil. I just, I can't emphasize enough. People just need to get the vaccine. Get the vaccine. They need to convince people to get the vaccine. Anybody you think is vaccine hesitant needs to get the vaccine. I was happy to see that they were starting

to do some of these things that encourage people to get vaccines. But gosh, we're in a position now where it's critical because you got to, the variants that are going to come out of these petri dishes that we're creating are going to be deadlier. Yeah. And then we're going to head into fall and winter, man. And like this thing is so much worse in the fall and winter because everyone goes inside and then they travel for the holidays. Oh, it's going to be awful. It's going to be so, it doesn't have to be like this.

There's literally a free solution to this problem. Well, speaking of awful, the guys from Godawful Movies will be on later. We're going to be doing a vulgarity for charity segment. This is the penultimate one on this show. So we did one on their show on scathing last week. We're doing one on this show in August. We'll have the last two, Tom. The last two from 2019. 22 months. In August, we'll have the last two, Tom. The last two from 2019.

22 months! In August, it will have been, what? 22 months? 22 months. But we had 1,100 some roasts, guys. And there's so many. And so we have them on a show later. It was a lot of fun to record with them, so we hope you enjoy it. It's the second

to last one. So there's going to be one more after this uh and then later on in the show we're also going to do uh we're going to talk about the first chapter do the cog this book club we're going to talk about the first chapter of demon haunted world look i've got your advert here um i printed it out yes i want to cook with you. Oh, no, no, my English is not so good. Oh! You want to cook with me. Using me, you mean.

Oh, yes, yes, you see. I see where the confusion was. I thought this was a cookery course. No, no. But you were looking for someone who would agree to let you kill and eat them. Yeah, yeah. You see were looking for someone who would agree to let you kill and eat them. Yeah, yeah. You see? That is funny.

This story comes from Religion News Service. Amid Catholic opposition, states are legalizing composting of human remains. So I read this article thinking, what the fuck is the opposition? Why in the world? Thinking, what the fuck is the opposition? Why in the world would anybody oppose a environmentally friendly space-saving way to deal with the after effects of life, right? Like the body. Right.

And I read it and I finished the article and I thought, I still don't understand your opposition. I still don't get it. But I will say this, dude. Yeah. 100% want this. Yeah. I 100, this is, my whole life I was like- Is this in your will right now?

My whole life I was always like, cremate me, just cremate me and just fucking throw me away, who cares? But this is so much better. And there's a great bit by Neil deGrasse Tyson where he is on stage and someone asks him about death or something. And there's a great bit by Neil deGrasse Tyson where he is on stage and someone asks him about death or something. And he says,

what I really want is for me to be put in the ground and for the flora and fauna that I feasted off of all my life to feast off me and then spawn more flora. It's a really, he's much more beautiful and much more elegant. Very poetic. And it's poetic and it's gorgeous.

They should have sent a Tyson. And they should have sent a Neil. And it's amazing. And it's like, when I heard it, I was like, fuck, I wish I could do that. But I always heard that there was these issues with, oh, they got to embalm you. And groundwater contamination. Yeah. It was like all this bullshit. And I was like, fuck, but I, but can't I just like, just like these people who say it's my religious exemption not to get vaccinated. Can't I say I have my religious exemption not to get vaccinated. Can't I say I have a religious exemption to getting involved?

Is that possible? I think that you can, actually. I think that there are some religions, and I don't think I'm wrong about this. I'm trying to remember what it is. But there are some relatively mainstream religions that you are buried sans coffin. Yeah.

And you just- Just throw me in the dirt. Yeah, just put me- Just put me in the dirt, man. me put me in the dirt man so this company like this is actually really cool they put you in a thing they fill it full of essentially wood chips wood chips and then after 30 days you're just dirt and i thought like this would also be great to just get this ahead of time because that way if you ever have a pesky body to dispose of i know right you just gotta wait, yeah. And then you're just rock solid.

I didn't know it was so easy. It was wood chips. How are these murderers getting caught all the time? Can't you afford mulch? Wouldn't it be awesome to have a plotted plant with mom on your fucking windowsill?

No, but seriously, this is my dream. This is how I want to go. This is what, when I die, this is what I want done with my body. I'm going to have my dad done this way and I'll put daddy lions. Dandy lions.

Daddy lions. Daddy lions on it. Yeah. It's just, I got rid of the N. I get it. I get it. Can I read the Catholic opposition real quick?

Yeah, sure. Because I just, I just, again, I, if you, if you hear this and you think to yourself,

oh yeah, that's a compelling argument. Joseph Sprague, executive director of the Washington State Catholic Conference, wrote in a letter that disposing human remains in such manner fails to show enough respect for the body of the deceased. How? It's my fucking body. If that's the thing I want to do, the respectful thing is to treat me the way I want to be treated. What is with these people and wanting to do shit with your body? Right.

God, get your hands off my body, man. What the fuck? What the fuck, dude? Oh, it's not respectful. Sorry. What's the thing I want? Well, okay. Well, why don't you go fucking knock

the fucking pint of ice cream out of somebody's hand or whatever? You know, make them work out or, you know, smack the cigarette out of their hand or whatever. You're not doing that. Smack the altar boy off your dick. Smack the fucking Sacramento wine out of your goddamn hand.

You know, I know so many priests that have fucking three fingers of maker's mark before dinner. Right. Fuck off. You know what I mean? Like, like you don't get to fucking pixie choosy what's good and bad for your body. Right. Oh, you're going to fucking ban bacon from the fucking rectory?

Eat it. Fuck off. You know what I mean? It's not bad for me to be composted. No. I don't. Oh, what? You're going to fucking ban bacon from the fucking rectory? Eat a fuck off. You know what I mean? it's not bad for me to be composted. No. I don't, what the fuck?

Respect for your body. Do you not think that we all turn to compost eventually? This just hastens the process. Also, don't you think the fucking, what do you think the fucking soul is in there?

Like, hey guys, let me out. We've got to get out. The only way I can get out is if you shoot formaldehyde in here. Because I guess there was no religion before formaldehyde and embalming.

Yeah, exactly. What? It feels like fish on Fridays because they have a fucking embalming body. Right. I wonder if there's not serious investment in funeral homes. Sure.

Catholic investment. But if I owned a fucking funeral home, the first thing I'd say is like, I want every single way that anybody ever thinks to fucking get rid of a body. Yes, the first thing I'd say is like, I want every single way that anybody ever thinks to fucking get rid of a body. Because I want to be a place where anybody could come. Yep.

If you have any kind of service, any kind of anything, I would want to be a customer service based company. But you sell your, you make your money on coffins, bro. Yeah. You make your money on coffins and graves. No, it's true.

It's true. Yeah. You're right. You're right. It's like having a bar that doesn't sell alcohol. I remember when my mom, when my mom died,

before my mom died, she told us, she said, do not get me a big service. I do not want a big service. She's like, cremate me and put me in a box. She's like,

but do not, I don't want to be laid out for everybody to see in a coffin and then burn. Because when my dad passed away, the cheapest coffin they had that they were going to burn was like $7,000.

Holy fuck, really? Yeah, and so that was the cheapest. That's a burning box? Yeah, it was a burning box. Can you make your own? I can get to Home Depot and fucking knock that out in an afternoon. It genuinely wasn't even

like a nice, good-looking coffin either. It looked like a fucking old box. It didn't look good at all. For seven grand? Seven grand my mom paid for that. I know lumber prices are up, but holy fuck. Yeah, she had to pay that.

And I remember her being so upset because my dad didn't have any. I mean, my parents were, they were poor. So my dad didn't have the money to, my mom didn't have a lot of money after my dad passed away and a very small life insurance policy

through his union or something. And so it basically ate all that up. Like it ate a whole thing up. And so, and she was furious about it because there was not, cause she was saying like, can't you just like fucking empty them out and like throw them in there? Like what do I have to buy a whole coffin for?

Right. Don't you have, I mean, I'm not even being like gross, but like, can't you put the body on the rollers, burn it up? sharer like right you can't is there one like is there a display model like an old shoe that i can use seriously isn't there an open box box i rent fucking bowling shoes i don't have to buy them you know we don't have sanitary issues to deal with with quite like

oh i don't want the corpse to get sick. Yeah, exactly. It's a corpse. But it was really one of those things that pissed her off so much. That's crazy. That she, and when she, she sat us all down and was just,

just told us, don't do this. And I remember when we sat down to talk to the guy who was going to handle the body, he said,

so what coffin? And we said, we don't want a coffin. And they said, well, you got to have a coffin. We're like, we're not taking a coffin.

If you can't do it, then we'll figure out somebody else. And he said, okay, i guess i could do it for 1200 and so we paid like 1200 for her to be be cremated right and then they just gave us a box of mom after it was over but that was but that was it that was the end of it man the first time i ever saw cremains just they just give it to you like in like if you don't buy and earn. Oh, no. It's just like it's in a fucking hat box. It's so disrespectful. Like the funeral industry is really fucking disrespectful because you get a nicer box

that costs nothing. You get a decent like little box to put something like a gift in or something from China for fucking like $9. Yeah. from China for fucking like $9. Yeah. Honestly, for $10 or $12, you could have something that looks halfway decent.

I don't think that's an exaggeration. $10, $15. Yeah. And they give it to you in a fucking cheap, shitty cardboard box lined with a fucking plastic bag. Yeah. Because you don't want to pay extra. You want to pay these insane markups.

And they're insane. You get fucking garbed. We literally can't even give you something respectful yeah but i mean again you know these are these are people who are highly trained that you have to go to a lot of school for that yeah absolutely and they have to they have to make their money somehow and so i get it i understand it but at the same time i don't it's something i want to kind of opt out of yeah same mainly because not because i don't i want to thwart them it's mainly because for me it's it's it's something I want to kind of opt out of. Yeah, same. Mainly because, not because I want to thwart them. It's mainly because for me, it's not spiritual, but it's something I feel.

You know what I mean? It's one of those things of, it's an emotional thing for me. It's an emotional, I would love that for my corpse to feed the worms. That's what I want. That is, that's- There's something about that.

There's something about that that feels good. That has that poetic nature, like that cycle of life kind of thing. It feels good. Right. The whiteness virus targets healthy, culturally and ethnically specific cells. Italian, Irish, Scandinavian, etc. And what have you.

The albinitis then attacks and destroys any cultural or ethnic specificity using an arsenal of fake holidays, 17th century aristocratic class warfare the one drop rule and Elvis luckily we have a cure right beyond so this story comes from NPR geocaching while black outdoor pastime reveals racism and bias we've gone geocaching we have

I remember years ago it's super fun years ago I remember you introduced me to it yeah and I remember just it was just such a cool experience to go walk into the middle of nowhere. You're out in the middle of the forest

and it was off the beaten path and you had to have that, that little device, the GPS. Get out and do it on your phone. I know. Now it's, now it's a lot more accessible.

We should go geocaching. A lot more accessible now because back in the day, you actually had to buy an actual GPS. Yep. And that was a, a thing. It was an investment.

And I remember I almost bought one. I was close. I almost bought one. And then I decided not to, but I was close. But I did have a lot of fun doing it. But what is interesting about this article, Tom, is that it shows that we have two Americas. And one is a white America and one is a black America. Yep.

two Americas. Absolutely. And one is a white America and one is a black America. Yep. And, you know, when you and I went geocaching, you and I gave it no thought at all

that we would be traipsing around and driving and looking at stuff. And, you know, we have a level as white men, we have a level of freedom

that nobody else has in this country. We own this country. We own it. We own every fucking instrument. We have ownership own this country. We own the whole, we own every fucking ownership over this country. The same exact hobby, which is the most innocent fucking like vanilla outdoorsy hobby you could possibly have.

If you're black, people call the cops on you. This guy talks about like, yeah, I got to carry a clipboard around so that I look official. So that when I'm walking around, looking at my GPS, trying to play this game with my family,

with my kids. With his kids. Trying to just play a game and be out in the neighborhood. And he still gets called. They call the cops on him. I think he said like once a month. So he said he went to a forum and when he's on this forum,

a bunch of people said, you know, I've never been stopped ever doing this. And all these people were saying it. And he started six months prior and he had been stopped seven times. Once a month he was stopped by the police. Because people didn't think he belonged in that area. They were like, oh, you shouldn't be here.

Because he's outside while black, man. You shouldn't be here. You're outside while black. What are you doing here? You must be doing something illegal or something that is nefarious. You're doing something wrong. And geocaching takes you into, now it doesn't go on private property, but you do walk off the beaten path. And sometimes you'll go onto public property. There's a part of this where he talks about, because his goal, sounds like such a cool guy,

by the way, when you hear the story, he sounds like such a cool dude. He says, you know what I want to do? I want to go to every state, every county and get a geocache in every county. And I'm like, what a cool idea, right? It's fun and it's cool. And he said, I had to dig in a Confederate flag because that's where it was.

He had to go to a Confederate flag. There's Confederate flag and it's public. And he had to reach down onto the bottom of this Confederate flag and pull out the geocache and then write his name or whatever, sign the book and put's public. Yeah. And he had to reach down onto the bottom of this Confederate flag and pull out the geocache and then write his name or whatever, sign the book and put it back.

He said he didn't take anything that time. But you know, like how insulting is it for him to go there? It's terribly insulting. I might not even think about it. Right?

I might just go there and be like, oh, this is where my GPS says I need to be. I found my treasure. Oh, I'm taking this blow pop

or whatever. And then go on with my day. And this guy has to deal with not only that, but then also deal with, you know, he's over there mucking around with a Confederate statue. There's, you know, and then he has to take a clipboard with him, like you said, to look like he's a worker. I got to look like I belong here

because I have to look one class lower than you in order for you to accept me in this neighborhood. How fucking insulting is that? I can't look, I can't just be. I don't get to just walk around and just be and enjoy the outdoors and enjoy this harmless, fun, like really like,

and it's been around for 25, 30, like it's really like Americana kind of pastime. It's so wholesome. It's fucking ridiculous how wholesome it is's so wholesome. It's fucking ridiculous how wholesome it is. Super wholesome. And you can't do that. Why?

Because he's got fucking a better tan than me. Yep. You know? That's it. That's it. That's it. How fucking outrageous.

Yeah. How absolutely outrageous. Vernon. Were you by any chance scheduled to turn yourself in at the DOJ this morning? Fuck! Oh, fuck!J this morning. Fuck! Oh, fuck!

Fuck, fuck, fuck! No! God! God damn it! Oh, my fucking life! God damn it! Why, motherfucker? Why, motherfucker?

Okay, so that's just piss poor staff work. Oh, this me smile it's from the huffington post uh alexandria ocasio-cortez slashes lauren bobert for call to end government benefits so we should read her tweets tom so we got to start with the first one and then and then she responds to aoc afterwards so uh Boebert, I'm going to play this audio. This is Boebert at CPAC. We're here to tell government, we don't want your benefits. We don't want your welfare. Don't come knocking on my door with your Fauci outie. You leave us the hell alone. God, I hate that woman. She is a horrible person. Holy shit.

So she's talking at CPAC, basically saying, look, I don't want any of this stuff from the government. I don't want any of your handouts or whatever. And Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez responds. Oh, she says,

tell them loud and proud, girl. GOP will strip your unemployment protections and dismantle any semblance of a public safety net we have left. Then make working people pay way more for everything on low wages while Wall Street gets a meal ticket. Good old conservative values, baby. Ironically, here's what the article says. Ironically, Boebert has talked about her own days on welfare. And this is a previous tweet that she had last year in September, Tom. She said, I'm living the American dream. I came up from welfare, standing in line, waiting for government cheese to now running for Congress. Let's keep radical socialists

out of government so people can be empowered to lift themselves out of poverty rather than wait on government. I don't know. What? You needed welfare and government cheese. The reason you never lifted yourself from your bootstraps. You were relying on a safety net, you stupid. I can't. What the fuck? I'm breathless right now. I know.

It's such a stupid thing to say. And, you know, from personal experience. So I grew up very similarly, right? I had welfare when I was a kid, I had government cheese when I was a kid. And, you know, my parents worked as hard as they could to get off of that as, as quickly as they possibly could. Right. So for a couple of years of my life, when I was like nine and 10, my parents had to be on welfare. And I remember getting food stamps and that sort of thing. And it was right during the Reagan era when nobody had jobs, it was really sucky. And I remember getting food stamps and that sort of thing. And it was right during the Reagan era when nobody had jobs. It was really sucky. And I remember getting those things and not having a lot, right? Not having a lot at all. And I remember my parents diligently

working for many years to get us from an apartment to a bigger apartment, then from an apartment to a house. We finally moved into a house that we rented. My parents rented that house for 10 years. And then when I went to college, my parents bought a house. So they lost their house in the Reagan era, right? They lost it to bankruptcy. And then my parents went on bankruptcy. And this is when this all happened, the government cheese, the food stamps, the, you know, like hand to mouth, but you know, you're surviving. And then after that, they, they, they worked as hard as they could. Granted, that stuff was there to bounce on. Right.

But they worked as hard as they could to get away from it, to stop it and to eventually become homeowners later on in their life, right? Like that's, they did exactly what Lauren Boebert did, which was relying on the government during the very hardest times and then use whatever they could to try to get out of that

situation, which is most of the people on welfare. I was going to say, like, the numbers show overwhelmingly it is overwhelming. It's not a little bit. It's overwhelmingly the number of the people on welfare that they're on it for a short period of time when they need some fucking help to get through a rough spot.

Who doesn't? Fucking Lauren Boebert needed it, right? Your parents needed it. I may at some point in my life need it. You, listener, you may need it. Just because you're in a good space now doesn't mean you're going to be in a good space tomorrow or in five years or in 10 years. It's just not, we don't have that kind of ultimate control over our fates, you know?

And the idea that you would want to support a system which wants to strip that shit away at the same time that you recognize that you yourself needed and relied upon that system. I'm like, what, how mean are you? You're either obtuse at a level that genuinely boggles my imagination you can't be you're so stupid you you it's it's a surprise that you breathe well for real for real that same too i gotta read it again i'm living the american dream i came up from welfare standing in line waiting for government cheese, and now running for Congress. Let's keep radical socialists out of government so people can be empowered to lift themselves out of poverty rather than wait on government.

You just said you were waiting in line for cheese. We were waiting on the government. Every single fucking Republican that I know or anybody that's on the right that I know, if they ever needed help, they're the first in line to ask for it from the government. They're the first in line. They just don from the government. They're the first in line. They just don't want you to have it. They want to have it. They don't want you to have it.

Dude, they're the same fucking way with abortion, right? It's always an exception. Well, for me, it's different, you see, because I worked hard my whole life and I paid into the system. I fucked my mistress and you can see where the problem is, right? I'm not a whore. I just got pregnant. I don't use condoms. That's disgusting. I thought I was covered in the seat of Jesus. So here's the thing.

It keeps that semen at the end. And I don't like semen on my penis. That's gay. That's why I'm giving the semen to you. That's the whole purpose of the thrusting. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's such the, I mean, it's like, it's like you picked out the most hypocritic stance that you possibly could pick out and you chose that path in life. And it's, it's constant. And this is outrageous. The way she walks on that stage and tells people what they should and shouldn't have. Yeah, easy for a lady who makes that much money. Are you going to turn down government benefits? Because you certainly benefit from being in the government.

What are you making? A hundred grand a year plus? Are you going to turn your check down? No, right. Yeah, it amazes me when people get into government in order to say government is shitty. Yeah. Well, it's your paycheck.

That's your health insurance. That's your paycheck. That's your pension. What the fuck? You had to ask people to please give me this job. It's a flat object made from a tree with flexible parts on which are imprinted lots of funny dark squiggles. But one glance at it and you're inside the mind of another person, maybe somebody dead for thousands of years. Across the millennia, an author is speaking clearly and silently inside your head, directly to you. Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people who never knew each other, citizens of distant epochs. Books break the shackles of time.

A book is proof that humans are capable of working magic. And this room is filled with magic. So we read the first chapter, Tom, of Demon Haunted World. This first chapter starts out with Carl Sagan getting off a plane, meets his limo driver or driver, and the driver happens to have a famous name and suspects that Carl Sagan is one of those people who has a famous name and says, are you one of those people who gets mistaken for the famous guy?

And he's like, I am the famous guy. And so they- Happens to both of us all the time. I mean, I can't even. It'd be like, he introduces the guy as William F. Buckley, who was a commentator at the time. And he says, it's not the guy's name, but you understand him. Basically make it, the guy's a famous name. So, but it's not the famous guy.

And so they have a conversation and the conversation basically revolves around pseudoscience. Around this guy's real interest, deep interest in conspiracy, deep interest in pseudoscience and supernatural, and also being very excited to talk to a scientist who might be able to confirm some of these beliefs for him. And Carl Sagan spends the whole ride shooting him down. And then the chapter sort of shifts into talking a little bit about the methods of science and where they were sort of cultivated early on, even specifically talking about medicine and really laying forth an outline that basically says, yeah, science gets things wrong sometimes,

but let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Let's make sure that we pay attention that the most important thing about science is not its findings, but its method. And that's, I think, the main thrust of the first chapter. Man, it's funny because I thought when you said that, the important thing about science is not its findings, but its method. That is so wild, Liz. I was thinking that over and over and over again while I was reading chapter one. And that is so far and away the takeaway. Sure. Because this guy that knew these various pseudoscientific things,

what he knew was the stories that he heard about science. Sure. And I think the truth is that for most of us, I'll raise my hand as a guy who's got a degree in English literature and none of the sciences. Sure.

I don't know the sciences, right? I don't know them in the deep, profound, hands dirty, brain dirty kind of way that a real scientist does. What I know is the stories around science, right? And we learn the stories of science. We learn the narratives of science. We learn a series of scientific facts. And I was thinking about this. That is almost the entirety of my scientific education i took a biology class you learn the story of biology you learn kind of a narrative of biology and then you learn a bunch of biological facts yeah i took chemistry same shit sure i took a lot of physics same shit right but what i did not learn or which maybe i did learn but was not

emphasized in the way that really would have given me a whole lot more tools is the methodology of science as its own class. Yeah. You know? Yeah. The methodology of science is so much more important. The stories will change. The findings will change.

Sure, of course. Yeah, findings are going to change. I could watch a thousand fucking YouTube videos about like, here's some cool octopus facts, right? It doesn't edify me. I am no more capable in the world for knowing those octopus facts. But if I know how science operates operationally, and that's, I think, what Carl was really driving toward here. It's all about the method.

Right. driving toward here. Yeah. It's all about the method. And it's all about, you know, what's great is he introduces logical fallacies in this chapter without calling them logical fallacies. And what I really loved was that he just gave you an example of a logical fallacy and he never named it because it's not a boring book of listing logical fallacies. It's not just this big, long, boring ass book to say, well, that's the argument from authority. In the first page of the first chapter, he gives you an example of Occam's razor. The guy comes to him and says,

what do you think of this? And his answer is, the evidence is crummy. He's saying there's better evidence out there. There's more simple explanations for what you have to say. You know, one of the things too that occurred to me was he talks about the medical profession and there is so much pseudoscience and so much pushback against the medical profession

that we talk about all the time on our show. And one of the things that he talks about too is not ascribing some sort of malice to things. And I think that's one thing that we found out very recently. We talk about Haley, right? When she had this C. diff. If you were somebody who wasn't a skeptical person, you might think there was some malice in what happened to your wife. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

But really what happened was just incompetence, bad systems. There's a dozen things that happen. Competing incentives. Yeah, poor insurance and how insurance changes the structure and the landscape of medicine. All those things happened, but none of them were directed at you. They were just, you're just a symptom of the system. But if you were somebody who,

you could feel personally aggrieved by that, right? Oh, absolutely. And I think you would be almost justified in those feelings. It takes a lot to step back. And I think Carl's first chapter really drives that point home again and again, is that you've got to have a method you can use that lets you take that step back from feeling that personal connection. Right, right.

And I feel like, you know, that don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good really feels like a whole second half of this, because he does go out of his way to say there have been missteps. There have been missteps in science. But you can't look at these missteps and say that that's the sum total of what science gives us. And he's making sure you understand how exciting science is too. And I feel like we talked to science communicators, we talked to Cara Santamaria, how difficult their job is. His job was difficult back then. Yeah, 96.

You can hear it and you see it and you read it and you know his job. He was competing with, you know, when you try to compete with conspiracy, when you try to compete with supernatural, people want to believe these things. Dude, it's 1996. He's literally competing with X-Files. Yes. And the cultural zeitgeist that really fed something like X-Files. That was the heyday.

1996 was the heyday of that kind of thinking. And one of the things that he drives home, and it couldn't be more important, you read this now and you're like, oh God, why did we, 27 years, we should have paid attention. You know, you read it and he's like, look, if we're going to solve climate change, if we're going to have these advances

that we know we need to have, and he lists an enormous number of them. Sure, he lists climate change for sure, yeah. They're all only going to get solved with one method. Yeah. There is no other method. There's no other way to do it. Like, whether the discipline comes from biology or microbiology or virology or climate science

or whatever, none of it matters in the sense that the methodology will always be the scientific methodology that solves these problems. The reason your price, it's funny to think, and I thought about this too, while listening to the, reading the book, that I'm only alive personally because of medical science, right? I would have certainly, I'm 43. There's no way I would have made it to 43. And that's because at some point in my life, I know I got strep throat a couple of times. And strep throat, throughout a huge part of history, was often fatal.

It was just fatal. And it's such a fucking non-issue now. I got meningitis. That could have been a problem. And I'm a healthy guy. Like, I'm a very overall healthy guy. When you were younger, you had that asthma that would come by every year.

Oh, I had that terrible asthma. And I had Rye syndrome, but when I was a baby, but that's from aspirin. So who knows? So, you know, column A, column B. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's so funny because if you just pause and take that one step back and look and think,

man, without science and without that method of thinking, I wouldn't be standing around today. I almost certainly wouldn't even exist right now. It just tells you how fucking critical it is for us to try to continue existing tomorrow. Yeah, I think there's a couple of really great passages in here. One that I really enjoyed,

and this is something I think I've quoted in the past, says, for me, it is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. And the ignorance is bliss is, you know, I mean, that idea is sort of written on that. But, you know, there is a comfort in thinking that there's a God who's controlling everything. There is a comfort in thinking that there's a God who's controlling everything. There is a comfort into thinking that you go on after you die. And he mentions these things. This is Carl at the end of his life. Carl's not a young man at this point. Carl may have even been diagnosed with cancer when he wrote this book. I don't know the timeline,

but I know he died relatively soon after this. So I know that he had cancer at the end of his life. And I know he was looking into the face of possible death very soon. And you could tell, he knows it's very comforting to think those things, but I don't think those things. And I'm not going to persist in this delusion, however satisfying it is. And that's something that all atheists, all skeptics have to eventually grapple with is that feeling, right? If you were brought up on lies, if you were brought up on lies, you have to grapple. And I know you might not have ever had to grapple with that in some way. Maybe a little less.

There probably was never anything really that you could think that would change your, you'd be like, no, there's another, I never thought I was a God, so who gives a shit? But I did. And so for me, you know, it's like, wow, there was a, there was a moment in my life where there was a delusion that was satisfying, but it's not satisfying once you know that it's a delusion, you know? Yeah. And just as important to that, I think about that quote, cause I know that quote and it reminds me actually of the Bertrand Russell quote that I carry in my wallet. Like, and it's, you know, something along the lines of, I scorn to shiver at the thought of annihilation. Yeah. You know, and, but you have to,

in order to not find solace in ignorance and not find comfort in delusion, you have to have something meaningful to replace delusions with. And if we don't teach people critical thinking, and if we don't teach people how to use the tools of rational thought, and science is, so what science is, is really just, it is a codification of the tools of rational thought, right? That's really what it is. And if, but if we don't do that, you can't strip people of delusions,

you have nothing to replace it with, right? So it's easy in some sense for someone like Carl Sagan to say, I would rather understand the world as it is because he has the tools to understand it. Sure, sure. And we have to make sure that we give people the tools to understand the world as it is and then work on removing delusions, right?

Because if all we do is try to remove people's delusions without giving them something else to feel wonder and awe and excitement about, that's fucking mean. You know, that's all it is. And it won't work. It won't hold. It won't hold. And one of the things he says,

and this is another great quote, he says, I was dismissing, he's talking about the guy who's giving him a ride. He says, I was dismissing not some errant doctrine, but a precious facet of his inner life. And what that shows us is something that's writ large today. These people that are involved in conspiracy,

these people that are in deep with a lot of these pseudosciences, they're in deep. QAnon, you're in deep. It's a facet of your life. He knew back then that these things grabbed people and held them. And he knew he was going to have a hard time communicating with them because it's emotional. It's an emotional attachment. I can fucking destroy you with facts and logic all

I want, but it's not going to do anything if you're emotionally attached to it. And he knew that back then. And he was trying to tell everyone that we needed these critical thinking skills, but we also had to excite them. We had to make them emotionally feel something about this. And I think those are the tough things to do. Not only just spreading good communication about science and critical thinking, but also exciting people about these things. And what he wrote, he wrote a paragraph in here that was exciting. He's talking about traveling to Mars. He's talking about how this works and how this works. He's talking about all these little pieces of science that you might not know. This is how DNA works. And this is how this works. And this is how that isn't, it's exciting. And it is. And it, but it's,

the problem is, is that the other stuff is the, the conspiracy is easier to tell. There's no, there's no rigor and it's just easy to spread. And those are the problems that we're faced with as a group of critical thinkers. And I think one of the big takeaways for me for this book is how hungry people are to know things. Yes, yes. People are hungry to know things.

It's part of us as an animal, as a species. It's so endemic to who we are. We want to know, We want to understand. There is a crossroads that we are presented with at some points in our lives where we can choose to fulfill that desire to know with bullshit. Or we can choose to know it with, or fill that desire to know with this other methodology. The thing is that you've got to do the work of teaching people the method. Yes, yes. And we have not,

we have just not done a great job of teaching it. Yeah. And so I don't blame people and neither does Carl Sagan. I don't blame that limo driver. Right. For being voracious in his consumption of information.

Yeah. The thing is that he just, he lacks the tools to differentiate the kinds of information coming at him. And how much worse is that now? Yeah. And we're feeding him stuff from the internet and we're feeding, and this was the internet before anything back then. I'm saying we're not feeding him that stuff, but nowadays you're feeding him from the internet. You're feeding them from their newsfeed. You're feeding them from lowest common denominator programming, which is something he

will talk about in this book multiple times. So we are going to be skipping a week of Demon Haunted World because we have a guest on, fingers crossed. We have a guest on for next week. And so we probably don't want to spend a lot of time with a guest and then possibly a lot of time on a book and then not cover anything that happened that week. So we will skip it next week. But on the following week, we'll be doing chapter two,

Science and Hope. I'm looking forward to it. I gotta say, so far, Cecil, I'm loving this project. I know. It's such a great... I don't miss David Icke. It's so refreshing. Hey there, everybody.

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stuff, okay? Oh, it's getting bumpy. Where the hell am I? Okay, goodbye. Oh, and if you want to see this video, I need 30 likes on Patreon. Okay, oh, it's getting bumpy. Where the hell am I? Okay, goodbye. Oh, and if you want to see this video, I need 30 likes on Patreon. Okay. So it's our penultimate roast session on this show. We plan to do one more in August. It's been a hell of a run, and we did a hell of a lot of work to get here, but to finish these out, we need

the help of the dirtiest mouths in podcasting, Eli, Heath, and Noah. Welcome back to Cognitive Distance. Aw, you're just saying that because you saw how much shit Eli ate before we started recording, but it was still nice. Heath upper-deckered their toilet.

What was I supposed to do? That's free shit. That's free shit. That's nasty. I'm not... Come on. I'm not... That's not at all what you expected

when you asked us on. Sure, Cecil, whatever you say. I really... So, let's get started with a special request for Tom. I don't even know what that means, upper deck. Dr. Bullhammer would like you to roast me for enabling your sloth. So go ahead and roast me, Tom. Oh, yeah.

That's smart. Let me just go ahead and jump right on that. Oh, look at me. I'm Tom. My mouth is full of the hands that feed me. Nom, nom, nom. I only work three jobs with four kids. I'm so lazy.

Whatever. For real though, let me tell you what. I fucking owe Cecil. I own fucking everything. We never would have started a podcast if he hadn't suggested it and later actually planned on the doing of it. We never would have created Cog Dis from Everyone's a Critic without

Cecil. Because of Cecil, I've traveled, I've met more people and made friends I never would have imagined. I met my wife from this podcast, which I wouldn't have without Cecil. Cecil's bailed me out and helped me through the hardest times of my life without batting an eye. He's made the best times of my life so much better. Because of Cecil, I learned to appreciate good food, to cook a decent meal, to be a better thinker. I'm genuinely a better man with a better life than I would ever have deserved on my own because of

Cecil. And I didn't have to lift a fucking finger! Oh, and happy birthday, Cecil! Please make me a cake. We're breaking up, Tom. We're breaking up. That's it. We're breaking up. Okay, Heath. This next one's for Dev.

They want you to roast Gemma O'Doherty, conspiracy theorist, racist, and anti-vaxxer. I think that's it. Oh, yes. The Irish lady. She's the fucking worst.

And she looks like exactly every mom from my hometown. So I guess all those details track. She's like a dusty albino Koopa Troopa somehow.

That's Jemma O'Doherty. Cecil, back to you. You're up next. Aaron wants you to roast Joanna Bischoff. So this is a special request roast here, and I have to read this because I'm not smart enough to understand it. Quote,

please tell Joanna Bischoff that her cross-eyed zombie space worms couldn't grow a second head even if she hand-fed them Kobe beef liver and bathed them in Avion. I have no idea what that means, but they wanted me to say it. I just want to add that Joanna looks like the lady at the college writing

center that asked me in the most patronizing way possible if I really, really needed to put that comma there. Do you really need that there? Really? You're like a human math pun, Johanna. Okay. Noah, this next one really calls out for your delicate touch. David wants you to roast, and I'm just going to quote him here, quote, future Noah Lusions from 2025 who still gets lung cancer anyway after quitting smoking. What the fuck?

Fun, David. Cool. That's great. Fun, fun, fun for our roast charity fucking thing. Oh, good. Can I just roast the twisted demons David has rolling through his head? No kidding, right? David, your imagination is darker than my lung lining.

But yeah, okay. Eli, roast your son at your funeral in a couple of years. Hey, future Noah. The fact that your response to the news was, so I might as well start smoking again now really underscores the degree to which you had that shit coming. But on the right

side, just think about all the environmental consequences of your lifestyle you get to miss out on now. Anyway, have fun spending your last remaining days hacking more often than teenage Heath trying to figure out how to unscramble the porn channels. I spent so much time trying to continue. Bending those antennas around. No.

Next up, Eli, we need someone to step up and roast Baby Jesus for Richard. Thank you. All right. Baby Jesus fucking sucks. First of all, worst Messiah entrance ever. I mean, Forgotten Realms has nine cooler God entrances than you, and they're not even the only one in their

universe. Queen of Chaos, literally born from the first lost child. Tiamat, badass, mask ceremony, but you, oh, I was born in a farm because my parents didn't make reservations in advance like it was their first time at Burning Man. Grow up, Jesus! I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Heath, Marty would like a roast of their ex-co-worker Marchin or Marcin? No idea. Roast away. Okay. He looks like I'm about to get an alert to endorse him on LinkedIn for white stuff.

And he, more than anybody I've ever seen, 100% has holsters going over his shoulders for multiple cell phones. Like a Blackberry or a PDA. Oh, Tom, a total gift from Thomas. Roast multi-level marketing Kangen alkaline water. Oh, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ.

You know what's worse than an MLM that purports to sell knives or cleaning supplies or makeup? An MLM that sells alkaline water ionizers for $4,000. Jesus Christ. What the fuck is wrong with the world? The people who don't understand the goddamn pH scale are being sold alkalinity and then being turned into alkalinity sales

people. Look, if you could drink your way healthy, Heath would win the Boston Marathon, but you cannot. No matter the pH value of the fucking water and if you have to resort to selling shit through your customers

that means you don't have a product anyone wants or needs like seriously imagine if anything else ever that was really any good was sold this way I mean fuck me Pet Rock sold out but they sold out in stores if you have to leverage broke housewives And fuck me, Pet Rock sold out, but they sold out in stores.

If you have to leverage broke housewives and desperate people to be your warehouse, sales, and distribution force, that's because it's a fucking scam. Seriously, just ask one, one of these sales guys, just one time, ask them, what is an ION? Just ask once. All right, Cecil. Dustin has a coworker that needs a paddling. Roast Ryan for him. Ryan looks like someone shaved hoggle from the lab. I'm not even kidding.

Looks like an anthropomorphic version of, can I borrow 20 bucks until payday? All right. Up next, Wesley donated $100 to hear someone roast Noah's six. Eli, you're up. Oh, all right. Up next, Wesley donated $100 to hear someone roast Noah's cigs. Eli, you're up. Oh, all right. You know, quite a few folks asked us to roast Noah's cigarettes

when the goal was to get him to quit. But did anyone ask me and Heath what we thought about Noah's cigarettes? Those cigarettes were angling for Heath and I to get a 15% raise, you know. Oh, Jesus Christ. It's true. 15%.

It was so obvious. It's not how it works. It's fine. He tries to say numbers sometimes. But, no, it's true. They did have their downside. They were the reason why

every live show ended with a sad, still line of people hoping for pictures while we all had to pretend not to know where Noah was. They were the reason why Noah almost murdered me to death in an Irish airport

and also a Japanese airport and one in Seattle. Not the only reason. It wasn't the cigarettes. Maybe the cigarettes weren't the issue there. But look, cigarettes, you tried to kill one of my best friends in the world. And by fast and furious law,

that means I need to use magnets to launch your car into an active volcano. So watch your back, cigarettes. Watch your back. Jesus Christ. Noah, this is the night of gifts. Rom would like a roast of, and I'm using air quotes here, historian David Burt. Oh, thank you, Rob.

You remember Miss Prissy on the Looney Toons? The old chicken lady who Foghorn Leghorn always wanted as a sugar mama? I don't remember the plot of that as much as you do. Now imagine she's a dude instead of a chicken lady. Boom, you are picturing David Barton. You are picturing David Barton, it's true.

Another thing he has in common with Miss Prissy, both have an equal claim to the title historian, actually. They both have the same number of bestsellers that weren't retracted by their publishers for flagrant inaccuracies. But there is one category where he bests a fictional chicken lady, and it's the only one I'm aware of. His book, The Jefferson Lies, has been voted, and I'm not making this up, the least

credible history book in print. Holy shit. The Bible is in print. Wow. And another gift, this one for Heath. Heathath we need a toast not a roast for heidi's fur babies uh heidi and greg's fur babies okay we got a picture of the cats they are seething with anger about getting photographed they hate this person whoever's taking the picture so much all three

of them very clearly have thought bubbles quietly mumbling, I'm going to fucking murder you in a fire as soon as you're done. No questions. Okay, it's a in a good way. In a good way, I mean that. So, like, if it's fun and your butthole's very attractive,

everyone likes it when you show them. Nobody wanted all their stuff on that table nobody ever wants nobody puts things on tables that leave them there

this must be Christmas Tom look inside your stocking Josh got you a wonderful request roast incels incels are the

boring dangerous and inevitable monstrous personification of the cross pollination of male privilege laziness sexual frustration and internet. Any group of people who identifies themselves as being part of a club based on how undesirable they are should take a fucking hard look at what they desire. It's a stupid fucking thing to be. It's not an identity that was thrust

upon you. There is, by definition, no thrusting involved. I am involuntarily not rich. That's not something that society has done to me. That's just something I don't have when I fucking want it. I'm not an in rich. Get the fuck out of here. There's no social hierarchy conspiring to keep you out of the gym or out of the shower or preventing you from holding open a fucking door and then getting to know someone in a spirit of genuine human connection? No one is stopping you, asshole. You're undesirable because every day you're lazy about who you are and you see other people as objects rather than as possible connections. Getting laid is really, really not hard to do. Take a shower every day. Take good care of your body you want someone to touch.

Cultivate a desirable personality and be interested in who other people are. That's the whole thing. I shower every day. I go to the gym. Desirable personality. You don't need any of those things. Those help, but you don't need. That's just what greases the wheels.

Like the fucking comes pretty easy, actually. Women aren't some monolith or puzzle, you dim-witted, useless cretins. They're just people who want to be treated

like people. They're not a hole for your slobbering, stupid cock. Especially not your slobbering, stupid cock. Definitely not yours. Right.

But they are for mine. That's how easy it is, folks. Okay, Cecil, we need you to roast author Orson Scott Card for Xavier. Card is the great-grandson of Brigham Young. So he is. Wow, really? I cannot think of an insult greater than your own genealogy, man. It says here you're known for LDS fiction,

which according to my estimation is fan fiction of fan fiction of fiction. So that's great. All the photos of you smirking make you look like John McAfee after you killed your neighbor's dog and had someone shit in your face. He just died, right? He did in a Spanish prison. Yeah, Spanish prison. I thought Orson Scott Card died.

I was like, ah. It's been a while since you did a good book anyways. He wrote one good book. That's the ultimate roast. And then he just kept one good book. And then he had to keep being alive. Every morning he wakes up and he's like, what?

That was his mistake right there. He needed to die in a Spanish prison. Here's another top shelf pick here. Ala wants a roast of health insurance executives. Noah, you're up. Oh, well, I'd love to, Cecil, but I can't because those motherfuckers defy analogy. Right? And that's kind of what we do.

Their literal job is to profit off the misery of others. Their daily goal is to see how much of other people's health they can trade for dollars. So I can't say, you know, you're like X because thankfully you're not. X is better than you. It's always, it has to be. You are uniquely awful in a way that

renders comparison and indeed language itself useless. Roasting you would be like trying to set fire on fire. I pass. Okay, now we're going to get a little oddly specific. Heath, Josh wants a roast of people who don't trigger the

automatic flush in restrooms. Okay, listen, Josh. Some people like to hover and some people like to nest. You're being a bigot. You're being a bigot right now. That's bigoted. When tall people hover, it doesn't always trigger the sensor. And then you try to press the button with your foot, but the button's too small. So you're, I don't have to explain myself to you.

I don't have to explain myself. Whatever. Bigot. Tom, another direct request here. This is from Tom and he would like you to roast his family. You're upset because your family rejected you, Tom. but holy dumpster fire, look at that family. And think to yourself, what do you want to do with them in the first place? I mean, sure, it hurts to get rejected, but come on, Tom.

You didn't get kicked out of the Nobel Prize winners club here. These guys all look like they have to be told to wear shoes inside the 7-Eleven. I know sometimes you get dealt a shit hand when it comes to family, but these guys, they already did all the heavy lifting for you. They cut the cord which is good because you don't want to be tethered to a groveling pack of perpetual

losers. Seriously, look at this for what it is. A sudden and jarring cutting of the shackles the human stink anchors represent. Oh, Jesus Christ. They were ugly. They were ugly. They sound ugly.

They went and left out of the rose and nailed it. Sound ugly. Okay, Cecil, here's a great one for you. Seiki wants a rose to people who find joy in herding animals because this isn't dark at all. Have you ever noticed that these people never try to herd an animal that hasn't been domesticated over tens of thousands of years

and trained to be docile? None of these assholes are out there trying to fist fight a bear. It's always animals less than half their size trained through breeding not to fucking attack humans. I hope you do this to the wrong dog. Get bit, get infected, lose your hand, and then your prosthetic

is the meanest fucking chihuahua in history. And every time you try to sleep, it bites your balls. That's what I hope happens to you. This next one is for fabulous French accent guy, Janet. Janet would like a roast of her vacation in the Loire Valley. Oh, this is lovely. She said pictures looked amazing. Sorry, sorry.

Hello, sorry. Hello, Jeanne. You think you enjoyed the Loire Valley with its beautiful statues and its gorgeous jardins, but you did not. How you say, watch Heath Enright strike out with a girl who is explaining

how she makes wine using moon magic. It was a very confusing day. Did you get to watch Heath decide, no, this sex is not worth it and then stop talking to her? Did you perhaps watch Tommy Smith eat McDonald's for three years in a row?

What a fucker. What a fucker. Fuck him. Fuck him. Because if you did not, Jeanne, you did not experience France. Fuck him.

That's so repulsive seriously you guys had to watch the the the wanting to get laid and Heath died the fourth time so

beautiful beautiful French woman with the accent and then she was like and then the moon carries the grapes and I was like fuck

please that's amazing I can't fuck your face I can't fuck your face. I can't. Come on, Thomas. Let's go back to McDonald's. Grossest thing I've ever heard. This is a little niche.

This one. Carrie Boo would like a roast of people who sung their butt. That was a euphemism for one of those weird sex things that only Eli knows about and I pretend to know about so he won't keep asking me to Google it. But no, it is exactly what it sounds like. It's trying to get a tan inside your asshole.

And do you know why? Of course you do. It's because some goddamn guru had a thing for widespread assholes and therefore it's healthy now. Because this is the internet. And that's how it works now. So to be clear, bullshit hippie health crisis have reached a point where literally blowing smoke up your ass would be more substantive. Another great one we save for later.

Heath, Karen would like a roast of the typical good guy with a gun. Oh my God. Fuck all of you. Okay. So if you think you're a good guy with a gun, here's what you're picturing. You're picturing a gunfight that happens like a karate teacher being like, what if I came at you like this as a gunfight after they told you what this means. That's so true. Also, you're an adult who takes karate

in this scenario. Here's what I like to do with these people. When they're talking about their artisanal mead and wrist control, whatever, you very calmly, very discreetly, take out a rubber band and shoot them in the neck and you walk away.

What happened? Are you diving over a table and pushing it up and blocking the rest of the shot? No, no, you got shot in the neck. You're dead. Tom, another direct request for your services. This one is a roast of Eileen for her sister, Susie. I'm not going to lie. I've read a lot of these roast requests, but I don't know that I've ever read one and thought,

oh yeah, psychopath. Got it. Quite as quickly as this one. Really? Fuck. Look, here's the thing about Eileen. You know that thing that most of us are born with that makes us human and decent? Eileen doesn't have that. I'm not saying she's not human. I'm sure like biologically she is. I'm just saying it doesn't count. Like the part of most of us that doesn't need to be told not to laugh at others' pain and misfortune because we inherently see in others some part of us. Eileen does not have that. I think you're making it confusing.

She is incomplete, Susan. She is poorly formed. She is not in all the ways that count fully human. And no matter what anyone does or says to her or about her, no one can reach back inside of her and install that missing something. So all you can do is look at her from afar, limit the damage, and see her for the broken fucking curiosity that she is. Jesus. You got her like under glass in a museum of eight.

Yeah, I like it. It's amazing. Better for everybody. Cecil, Ben wants you to roast his former Army recruiting command sergeant, Sergeant Major Williams. Sergeant Major Williams looks like someone took it

as a personal challenge and wanted to make the Guinness Book of World Records for inbreeding. He looks like someone drew a crude face on their tummy and they were planning on wearing a top hat covering the upper half. He looks like an animated movie man.

It's insane. Oh, Eli, this might require you to unleash both barrels here. Jason wants a roast of the Republican House Intel Committee. Great pick, Jason. Oh, man. That's an oxymoron

if we've ever heard one, isn't it? No need for a Russian investigation. No need for looking into January 6th. But hey, let's drag Andy Ngo down here to tell us about the time he got Dairy Queen in his hair again. I would compare them to McCarthyism, except we got our fucking answer

when McCarthyism ended. After all this time, they have no decency. Well done. I have two in a row here for Noah. The first is a roast of Margarita Simonyan. I don't know if I'm saying that right. For Igor in Russia.

And the second is the UK's David Cameron for Michael. So yeah, Margarita Simonyan or whatever is a Russian propagandist who looks like the substitute gym teacher who starts off by showing you how to choke out a protester. She's also a fucking vicious racist who did a blackface interview segment

making fun of Barack Obama last year. Oh, that's classy. Yeah, after this roast was requested. Yeah. So she's just getting worse as we speak. It's a good thing I got to her now. Jesus Christ. Making fun of Obama. What?

I missed the moment. The comedy is almost as insulting as the racism. It's so fucking stupid and awful. David Cameron, of course, now he's the former prime minister of the UK who famously looked at the Brexit referendum and said, fuck, what's the worst that could happen, right? A man so ignominious he was replaced by Theresa May. That's going to be the most embarrassing thing to ever have on your Wikipedia.

Replaced by, yeah. What great insult there. Oh, and apparently, by the way, Cameron is now, and since 2017, has been the president of the Alzheimer's Research UK. But from what we know of him, he's probably, it's like at least as likely as not that he's on Alzheimer's side there, that he's like being hated by Alzheimer's. So we don't want to give any credit for that yet.

Another person that's forgotten my presidency. This is all going to plan. Keith, this is an interesting request. Chris raised $95 on Facebook and donated that for a roast of people who thank veterans for their service. Yeah. Okay. So Chris is a

veteran and apparently... Yeah. That's better. Chris is a veteran. Apparently it feels gross to Chris when people do that. And Chris isn't the only one who feels that way. This is new veteran. Apparently, it feels gross to Chris when people do that. And Chris isn't the only one who feels that way. This is new to me. But, you know, now that I think about it, thanks for maybe shooting people in the face for being from another country.

It's kind of a weird thing to say. It is. It's a weird thing for you to say. Yeah, it's a little weird. Maybe some veterans do want to hear that. But those are exactly the veterans you don't want to thank for do want to hear that, but those are exactly the veterans you don't want to thank for anything. Yeah, that's true.

Here's what you do. Instead, you thank a podcaster for their service. You just go to patreon.com slash citation pod. There you go.

Another specific Tom call out. This one's for Nick. He'd like to, he'd like Tom to roast his friend Drew. Go for it, Nick. He'd like Tom to roast his friend Drew. Go for it, man. Drew looks like a somewhat sticky ventriloquist dummy you might find at the bottom

of a lost and found come to life. Nick, you said he was a sap. That seems right. He looks both runny and sticky and uncanny valley all at the same time. I'm not sure Drew's real. You don't have a real friend. That's not a person.

All right, Jessica needs someone to roast traffic, Cecil. I've never been around anyone as mad as you about traffic. She wants you to roast specifically the traffic of the Los Angeles variety. None of entropy.

Roast it. Hey, hey, look, guys. Someone got a flat tire. You know what we should all do? Fucking stop our cars and stare at them. Yeah. There's nothing in the world more interesting than a flat fucking tire.

We should all just make sure all fucking seven lanes on each side of the road stop to see what's happening. Someone call the news. This has to be a freak fucking human occurrence like Haley's fucking comment, man. There's an earlier fucking stop and gawk

because we may never fucking live to see another fucking tire. Okay. I never understood traffic jams. When I was a kid, I would say this.

I still believe this. I don't know. If everybody just starts going faster, it's over. Just go, right? Right? Can't we all just go?

Just like one, two, three, go. Fuckers. All right. Eli, another political one for you. This one is for Jason. He wants you to go after Mike Pence's successor in Indiana, Eric Holcomb. Also, this guy's from Indiana

and clearly does not have a working sense of smell because he wants a bonus roast of Chicago pizza. Like, you can roast that, whatever. All right. Well, Eric Holcomb... It takes, like, several hours to roast. Ridiculous. Eric Holcomb looks like a Eugene Levy character that he abandoned for being

too unlikable. If there were an advocate for sexual harassment among lumberjacks it would be Eric Holcomb he looks like the lawyer representing deep dish pizza after four local children drowned

here's a lob right in the strike zone Noah dealer's choice roast any right wing asshole any asshole okay let's go for the one most likely to kill me at the moment ron the bubonic tonic desantis right because yes i live in the fiefdom of brian kemp but i'm less than 50 miles from the state whose governor has directly linked his presidential aspirations with how many of his constituents he can kill with covid so ron

you always look like you've got an inner ass itch and you're looking for a chance to stand halfway behind something. What's more, you're the inner ass itch of human beings. And the state of Florida is super duper looking for something to stand halfway behind. Can somebody just scratch? It's this one spot. I can't get it.

Rubbing it against a door so again pretty specific thomas would like a roast of people who don't know how to use their brights oh my god this is why we have the pit maneuver this is why we invented it i like the pit maneuver for this these people need to fucking go These are the man spreaders of the roadway. Well, it's worse. If man spreading somehow made a subway derail and crash, then they're that. If you can't see the road without the brights on,

don't be driving. Stop. Don't do that. If you're overdriving the regular photons, what the fucking stop? What are you doing? You need to pull over, get out of your car, light a cigarette, immediately

toss it behind you near your gas tank and slowly walk away. Don't get back into a car. Another person who needs a Tom style roast for their friend. This one is for Alex and he wants a roast of Filon. Yeah, how the fuck is Filon even a name?

It's not a name. You made that up. All right, I mean, you listed all kinds of stuff about him, but even reading it out loud in my head, all I could hear after a while was the peanuts. Womp, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp sounds.

Fuck. Look, Filon is a guy who's just so fucking into stuff to be into stuff that he's not about anything. He's got so many interests to cover how deeply uninteresting he is. I mean, what the fuck? He's a wine snob and an anime nerd and a tattoo guy and a hunter and a gamer.

It's all excuses to talk about or be about something and now nothing. Some new piece of meaningless trivia. Some new whatever that someone else created. Maybe, Phelan, don't be so fucking afraid to be bored and you wouldn't turn out

to be so fucking boring. That's your friend. People with interests. I don't like you either, Tom. That's your friend. Why would you ask for me? That's the schtick here. That's so mean. That roast you ask for me? That's the shtick here.

That roast wasn't for me and it was for me and I'm sad and will be forever. Ten years after Philan dies, I'm going to be like don't be afraid. All right, Cecil. I'm jealous. You get to roast Senator Josh Hawley for Aaron.

Have at it. Oh, man. What I love is that someone asked for Josh Hawley a year before he was instrumental in the insurrection and voted not to confirm our election, right? He was that big of an asshole beforehand. So this tells you what kind of fuckknuckle this guy is. You're like the star of an American Psycho remake

done by David A.R. White, and he thought the guy in it was a hero. Eli, Steve is looking for a roast of his daughter and newly married husband. Oh, Steve. Steve, what I wouldn't give for an update on this couple. Because if ever a wedding picture said, I've taken on a second job

so James can focus on his pottery, it's this wedding picture, Steve. She looks like she made him sign a prenuptial agreement about not keeping his beanie babies. They look like they invite people they meet on a hike to swing. I hate to break it to you, Steve,

but they invite people they meet on a hike to swing. It's to break it to you, Steve, but they invite people they meet on a hike to swing. It's true. One more for each of us. This next one's for Heath. Javier wants his good friend KP roasted. Okay, so KP is an aspiring

actor, writer, and director. So, Uber driver. She's an Uber driver. Kind of like Eli, except with a way more dependable job for raising a child. Yeah, there you go. Dependable source of income.

More responsible as a parent, potentially. I agree. Eli, Jonathan wants you to roast his Republican wife, Holly. Yeah, so I read the email for this request,

and I was like, how could anyone stay married to a, oh, there's the picture. Got it, Jonathan. Okay, I get it. I mean, look, man. They make hot atheist girls too. Ones who, you know, don't think masturbation is gross

and I shit you not that Bill Cosby is the real shit. Shut the fuck up, man. So, Holly, if you're listening and you're not because you and Jonathan got a divorce 18 seconds after he sent this email get off instagram for a second honey just a second holly i promise just for a second hi hi i'm one of the comedians your ex-husband listens to to drown out your family

during the holidays holly unclench okay you know there's no god i know there's no God. I know there's no God. So just sit back, tie Jonathan's head to your waist with a horse feeder and just work out whatever you've got going on down there, girl. I'm so sorry Bo Burnham stole those pictures

from your Instagram. That was very mean of him. Very mean. Last one for you, Noah. Jason wants a roast of Nathan, the landlord, and Kieran the tentative oh that is so convenient because they're both

weird looking in the same general way thank you for they both look like they're like set to the wrong aspect ratio for this reality you know like they're from a 1.85 to 1 dimension but they're trapped in a 2.39 to 1 dimension

you're like you're like the weird shit that happens when balloon or costume designers have to imagine a two-dimensional cartoon character into a three-dimensional space. You're like the Duke and Duchess of the Uncanny Valley. It's amazing. That's great. Last

special request of the night, Scott wants a signature tom roast of josh and born again mormons oh is that a thing you know i don't even care nobody cares mormonism is a stupid cult that's so goddamn obvious about how fucking stupid it is right out in the open and on its face that if you as a goddamn grown-up in the 21st century, decide from outside that culture to sign the fuck up, you deserve to lose your income and your friends, because you've come entirely untethered from any possible connection you may have to reality. Mormonism is no excuses, stupid. No excuses. And if your dumbass fucking ex-friends can't see that, Scott? If they were somehow moth to the light, attracted to, of all inexplicable things, Mormonism, then let them go, Scott.

They were never worth keeping in the first place. Okay. Finally, I will wrap this up with a roast of Lloyd. Lloyd looks like Dig Dug pumped up a dwarf. Like just pumped him up and then let him sort of deflatel and then pumped him up again and did it again.

When he sits down at the gaming table, I feel like you guys should check his beard for a hidden black lotus. Not the magic card. The actual plant. I'm sure there's one in there. I had that once. Stupid. Guys, that one. Stupid. Guys, thanks for joining us. A couple more next month

and we'll come to a close. We'll see you guys all then. Getting there. Getting there. So we want to thank our patrons. Of course, we want to thank all our patrons. We want to thank our newest. Of course, we want to thank all our patrons. We want to thank our newest patrons, Joel, Kevin.

I have here an affidavit. And if I could get an evidentiary here, you would clearly see that I am not a potted plow. I think it's potted plant. Kay, Lynn. That is the longest fucking name. That is the longest Patreon name.

The longest Patreon name. Not a the longest Patreon name. The longest Patreon name. Not a Terrible Karen, Sarah, John F, McDropout, CS, and Joseph. Thank you so much for your generous donations.

We really do truly appreciate it. Our two employees live off of your largesse. They do. Thank you very much for donating because we pay them through you. So thank you. Thank you. Not only do they live off your largesse. They do. Thank you very much for donating because we pay them through you. So thank you. Thank you.

Not only do they live off your largesse, but we will have to kill them if we don't have patrons. Absolutely. So they will die off your lack of largesse as well.

Lack of largesse, for sure. Yeah. It's a rough system. It's tough, but fair. It's how I like to think about it. Tough, but fair. Tough, but fair.

It's not very fair, though. No. So we got a little bit of messages this week. We got an image from Seth. It's a Comcast image. We're going to post it on this week's show notes. Very funny.

Thank you, Seth, for sending it in. Seth has another one that we're going to talk about in a few minutes that he sent in. We got another message, Tom, about healthcare. This one's from Kitsuni. Yeah, part of the article that they send says this. You are a healthcare reporter. I'm a healthcare lobbyist.

And the fact that we can't do this ourselves is an indictment of where things stand at this point, said Greminger, health policy director at the Purchaser Business Group on Health, which represents large employers who pay their employees medical bills directly and have a big stake in price transparency. The subset of people who can do this is pretty small,

and most of them work for hospitals. Now, overall discussion is, nobody knows what anything costs or why or how. You have no idea. You can get, and I have encountered this. You can have, when I had, before my back surgery, depending on where you went for the same fucking procedure. So I had several MRIs.

And the MRIs of the same part of my back would cost different amounts just because. And you're just like, you have no way to know what it's going to cost before you get it. You have no way to know. The whole system is just nonsense to the consumer. Nonsense to the

patient. We got a message from J.A. and J.A. sends a message that they found our podcast in 2015 off of YouTube and they've been listening for a long time and they say, because of your help, I no longer wage a war on myself over God and my transition.

How great is that? I think that's so great. Thanks for listening, J.A. Yeah, thanks for listening, J.A. and good luck with everything and we're so happy that you listen. We got a message, Tom, from Julie who also was another person who might have left a church because of Trump. How cool is this? I'm a new listener. I love the show. In response to the listener comments from episode 584, I am a new atheist who left the church at the beginning of this year, in part because of the Christian nationalist movement and the church's embrace of Trump.

Well, welcome. Welcome. Julie. Welcome, Julie. You're going to love it here. Got a message from Seth again. And Seth says, Dean Cain is filming a Christian anti-bullying teen zombie movie near where I live in West Virginia. That's a lot of words to write before the word movie. It really is.

It really is. Should I try to sneak in with the background actors? Abso-fucking-lutely. You have to do this now. And you have to wear a cognitive dissonance shirt. Because cognitive dissonance is not overtly atheist.

That concept is not overtly atheist. Right. So if you wear a cognitive dissonance shirt, they won't know that and you just look like you love a psychological condition. Tell you what, Seth,

if you can get in on that movie, send us a picture. I will send you a hoodie. Yeah, for sure. Got a message. This is from Cheryl. And Cheryl says, hey guys,

at the end of the most recent episode, Cecil mentioned a listener's message had come from your fan page. Where is the fan page? The fan page is on Facebook. And so I'll have Ian post a link to it this week or sort of let people know. Ian, if you want to jump in here,

if you have an easy way to let people know. How to find the page. How to find the page. But I don't know the quickest way to find it. Ian can probably post a link to it on this week's show notes. And so that way you can just log in. You have to answer a couple of really easy questions that anybody who listens to the show will be able to answer.

And then you're able to get in. So we'll post a link on this week's show notes. And then if Ian has a quicker way, I'm sure he'll jump in and help. All these private groups like feel like an electronic speakeasy. Yeah. You know, you gotta know, you gotta know a guy who knows where to go and like how to do the secret knock. So we got a message from Amanda. I love this. And Amanda, when we were in Sydney, Amanda drove from Melbourne

all the way up to Sydney on a motorcycle, I think. On the back. I think she was riding on the back of a motorcycle to see us. And I remember her and I remember her and I remember

being just blown away that someone drove because it's not an inconsiderable that's not around the corner it's a distance right and it's also through like

you got to dodge kangaroos and like wallabies and all kinds of stuff the road is made entirely out of snakes at some point for sure and you know there's a whole

like cobblestone area that's just armadillo backs. You know. So, but they came up and I remember them specifically. I remember a lot of people from there, but I remember them specifically. So specific. I remember the bar that we were in.

I mean, I remember this because I was. I was fucking floored. Yeah. I was absolutely floored. So, and Amanda wants to, you know, get us in on this Tim Tam Slam.

Tell you what, we will, I will figure out how to get some Tim Tams. We'll figure out a Tim Tam Slam. Yeah, because we talked about it

on Cog Dis, on Weird Foods. We did, not Cog Dis, on Citation Needed. We did a Weird Foods a couple weeks ago. And the Tim Tam Slam

was one of the food, ways to eat food that people considered weird enough to put on a Wikipedia article. Yeah, we'll do it on a stream. I didn't mention it. We got a couple of messages

about this in Toronto. They renamed a park to Glory Hole Park. No shit. What the? Like legit, no shit. Why? Renamed the park

Glory Hole Park. So Tom, we've got to get it to Toronto, not only for this, but also because I think in Toronto they have that Glory Hole donut shop. We just need to go, all right, field trip. Field trip to Toronto.

We're going on a field trip. We'll go to field trip to Toronto. It'll be fun. Once the world opens back up. I know, man. Once you can go to Canada. Once the Omega variant rolls through everything. Got a message from Justin last week on the stream.

I specifically said, somebody had said that Mike Lindell was previously someone who was addicted to cocaine or crack. And I had said, I don't know if that's true. How do we know that that's true? And there's a whole article here that they posted from CNBC and he genuinely was a crack addict. And there's a photo of him. The guy wouldn't sell him crack. The story is actually really a great story. If you read the story.

It is. And you don't, I don't like this guy, but I think it's kind of a great story. This poor guy is out fucking doing tons of cocaine and gets on crack and he's doing all kinds of crack and he goes to go try to buy it. So he stays up several days in a row and they specifically won't sell it to him

because they had said, until he gets some sleep, I don't want him to, because he's going to die. I mean, he's staying up day after day after day after day. And so he goes to buy it and the guy says,

no, I won't sell it to you. In fact, I'm going to take a picture of you. He takes a picture with his camera phone and he gives it back to him and he says, you'll use this when you're famous. And so it is a picture of him so fucking strung out. He doesn't even resemble himself.

He doesn't even, he looks crazy, but he turned it around, found Jesus or whatever that helped him, prayed to the Lord and that made him quit whatever he was doing. And, but the thing is, is, is I wonder if that had a serious effect on him because- On his cognition. Because man, the stuff he's putting

up now is... It's not like... It doesn't feel like he's well. It doesn't feel like he's well. But it's an interesting article, and thank you for sending it in, Justin. We got another message, another image from Seth, and this is about the image that the guy posted last week, the Lindell guy. Check it out on this week's show notes.

So that's going to wrap it up for this week. We want to thank, of course the scathing atheists god awful movies D&D minus skeptocrat citation needed guys for coming on today

and doing vulgarity for charity we're so happy that they invited us to do this with them we're passionate about modest needs and we're always willing to put in some time to help modest needs and we did it last year and you guys willing to put in some time to help modest needs. And we did it last

year and you guys came out in force and wanted to help. And so we're still trying to bang away at these, even though it took us forever to get to them. We're still trying to make sure that we do this and we're still very passionate about modest needs. And we're hoping another Vulgarity for Charity this year, some changes in the work so that this doesn't happen again. And we're not three years in the making trying to get all't happen again. And we're not three years in the making trying to get all these rows out. We're going to try to think up different rules this upcoming time to help not only make it a shorter process, but also make it so that the money gets to the people that need it. And that this sort of thing can happen every year. And it

doesn't feel like we're spending a whole year of vulgarity for charitying. It says there's a portion of the year that fits into it. We'll keep you posted on that sort of information in the future. But we want to thank them for coming on the show. Next week, we're going to have a guest. Two weeks from now, we're going to read the second chapter of Carl Sagan's book. We want to thank you guys for joining us today. And we're going to leave you like we always do with the Skeptic's Creed.

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