Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 708: Where There's Woke Podcast

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Thank you to our guest Thomas Smith from - follow, listen, check out, subscribe!     Show Notes

This episode of Cognitive Dissonance is brought to you by our patrons. You fucking rock. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. recording live from glory hole studios in chicago and beyond. This is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political. And there is no welcome mat.

Today is August 10th, Thursday, 2023, and it's our show. And there's a possibility. Yeah. You just tuned in. You heard an auto ad in the beginning. Because we turned auto ads on the show. You might have heard an ad you don't like.

And recently I got a message from someone who said, hey, I got a recruitment ad from the Border Patrol. Yeah. Hey guys, in case you wonder what our stance is on joining the Border Patrol, you don't wonder what our stance is on joining the Border Patrol. What I love though,

is that it's probably wasted money. Like, you remember that site 419 Eater where those people would like waste the people, waste time of the scammer, right? So if you get, let's say a supplement ad that's garbage or a fake boner pill ad or something, something that you would normally raise or a Republican ad, understand it's perfect.

They're wasting their money. Think of us as like 419-eater, but for ads. And so what we do is we take the money that comes in from them, but then they wasted the ad on our skeptical audience who is never going to listen to anything that they say. And like, we do want to tell you guys, just so you understand, that we do feel like there is a difference

between the ads that we write that we endorse. So we endorse happily adamandeve.com. We endorsed happily Manscaped. That's a good product. I literally use that product. It's a good product. Earwolf. Earwolf presents.

Earwolf presents. Absolutely, we endorse that. When we've had ads that we've spoken about, feel comfortable knowing that like, yeah, we think those are actually decent products. They're worth your time.

We vet them. Right? We don't think they're creeps or, you know, like, we stopped. Better help.

Better help. I was like, fuck that. We stopped it. I'm not, I don't want your fucking money. I told him to go pound sand. We were not happy

with how they use their data. But when it comes to the auto ads, we don't endorse that shit. I don't, I don't even know what goes in. You can't even guess. Guys, it's here because they pay for time. Yeah, and if it gets to the point where it's crazy

and there's like really nutty ones, let us know. First, let us know. I'll happily read those emails, but let us know. And then what I'll do is if we have to like go up a tier because we're getting absolutely insane ads, we'll go up a tier.

And they take some things out depending. It'll be more restrictive. So they restrict certain categories. We kind of went with a more open category thing, but we'll see how it runs. If it sucks, let us know. Send us a message and be like, hey, now don't send me a message and be like,

hey, I hate auto ads. Use the 30 second skip button. It's right on the front of your just brunk and it it goes right past everything, and you're right in the whole thing. You're right in the whole thing. Just make the TiVo sound. There you go. Just make the TiVo sound. The old TiVo thing.

Our younger listeners are like, what the fuck is a TiVo, you ancient dinosaur? A TiVo is like having a DVR, but then also a marriage. You cannot get out of unless you pay them an obscene amount of money. I loved the TV when it first came out. It was fucking awesome, but canceling it? But their canceling system

was absolutely a nightmare. I remember this. That was a nightmare. They were like, they counted on you calling them. They wanted to keep you on the phone. Then they kept asking me questions. I was on the phone with them for 25 minutes.

This guy kept asking me questions. Well, why do you want to get rid of it? Because I don't use it. Well, maybe you could start using it. Here's a few programs you could. I'm like, I'm not going to use it. I need you to cancel. I must have said cancel the account like 20 times.

Just anytime I get like the retention people, I'm just like, cancel, cancel, cancel. Just keep saying it over and over. Just like 20 times. Anytime I get the retention people, I'm just like, cancel. Cancel. Cancel. Just keep saying it over and over. Just like, cancel. Cancel. Also, later on today, Thomas Smith is going to be on Where There's Woke is his new podcast. He's probably also going to be talking about SiriusPod as well.

SiriusIncreditsOnly, where he's continuing to produce content. We're anxious to have him on. He'll be on at the end of the show. Always a great guest. It's like Jesus is the geek in the cafeteria sitting by himself, and I'm the guy pretending he's not my friend. This story comes from the Raw story. Pastor alarmed after Trump loving congregants deride Jesus's teachings as weak. Big screen, just so you can see that the Raw story has decided to put Jesus next to Trump there. And Jesus is looking very pissy.

There is no mistaking what they're talking about here because it seems that this was a story, I saw this in a couple places actually. NPR ran a story. Yeah, NPR ran a story where in fact the liberal, and they're not just liberal, but any pastors now are using, one of them was quoting Jesus,

the sermon on the mountain. People are like, bro, that's weak. That's some weak ass shit. Nobody would, nobody should do that anymore. And he's like, wait, that's like, Jesus said this. This isn't, I'm not, this isn't some woke politics. And they said, basically, no, we don't, we don't believe that anymore.

Even though it's Jesus, that shit's outdated. We need to be different now. Do you remember, we had a conversation, a really good conversation. I remember if it was main show or if it was a supplementary show, like a patron show. We had a really good conversation. things that we were talking about a while back was the idea that America and patriotism and Americana and Christianity have all melded to create a new religion. Yeah, that was a long form article we read. Yeah. And I really think this is sort of emblematic. I read this article and I thought, yeah, like a hundred percent, because like the new religiosity or the new religion of American exceptional Christianity is its own thing, right?

And it is this like toxic soup of this like hyper toxic masculinity shit. Like there's like, if you were to get like a fucking cauldron and make this religion, the ingredients would be like, you'd have to sprinkle in like a heaping dose of like hyper toxic masculinity right that's like embedded in all of it is the truck nuts that holds it together yeah you know and then then there is like some of the more like violent and mean-spirited teachings from the bible cherry-picked because all all teachings of the bible are always cherry-picked so they would cherry-pick some of the, really honestly, the more aggressive Old Testament kind of shit from there. And then it would be this sort of hyper-nationalist, uber-simplified, civics-for-kids-that-failed-civics version of American history. And then you stir all that shit together, and that's the new religion.

And people are worshiping at that altar and it feels like a cult right now. It feels like a spread out cult right now. Yeah. I think, I think fire and brimstone's always been here, right? So I think that, you know, the, the, the Bible verses that condemn people and the otherism of Christianity has always existed. Yeah, for sure. I think it was smaller pockets, farther away from each other, less chance of a way to communicate and also less of a monetization on people's anger and angst, right?

You know, when you think about what they do, they get these people mad. They get these people tuned up. They get these people to otherize other people, these big evangelical churches. And then they say, give us money so that we can keep this faith, so that we can keep this word continuing. And I feel like it's obvious in the cash grab and from the sizes of these churches, it's obvious in the cash grab. And so, and I think genuinely, that's what, that's what

when we're going to talk about with Thomas later, I'm sure we talk about the woke politics and they talk about like these people who are attacking the woke, right? Let's talk about, you know, talk about DeSantis and other people and they don't, I don't think they care so much about it as

much as they care about being in power and helping their rich friends. This is just an avenue to do it. This is the way they do it is they create these little bubble overs to get people to agree to put them in power and then they won't care what they do. And I think this is very similar to what is happening here. Yeah, because you're right. Because Christianity has never been kind nor gentle. No, no. So, and that's not to say that there are no practices of Christianity that are kind and gentle.

There are. Like, it would be very difficult to shake an angry finger at the Quakers, right? The Quakers have always taken a very kind and gentle approach to Christianity. But that's cherry picking too, right? Because Jesus has also said some fucked up shit, you know? So it's not even just like, oh, well, if we follow the teachings of Jesus, it's all kind of gentle.

Jesus has said some fucked up shit. It's all the same book. Stop with the fucking, stop with the division. It's all the same fucking book. So, but like, so Christianity, so there is nothing new to be found here. That I totally agree with. Also, like, I think you're right.

Like, these churches absolutely have been for the long time positioning themselves as the sort of vanguard to a fight. Yeah. And if they position themselves as the vanguard to a fight, especially in an underdog kind of, you know, hey, it's us against

the spiritual forces of evil, you know? And you're like, fuck, where's my wallet? You know, you're like, I gotta give you some money. You have to make it go away. And so like, they've done a really good job of leveraging that, but they've also tuned up this fighting spirit. Yeah, yeah.

And so they've been able to like, conflate this hyper-nationalism with that tuned up, like, ready to fight shit. And that we've got like this, I don't know, this like amalgamation that takes place where the idiots at the fucking January 6th riot are standing there like waving Christian flags because they don't know how to differentiate their religious beliefs from their nationalistic beliefs. And the same person would easily wave a Trump flag, right?

Oh, absolutely. Because they intertwine. And it's not, and I don't think, I know there are some people who are going to say, but that's because he's's not and i don't think i know there are some people who are going to say but that's because he's their deity i don't think that's the case i think it's more what you said which is that americana is its own religion now yeah and this patriotism bullshit is its own religion and the fact that this is starting to bite some pastors and some pastors are pulling back and being like, oh, I really genuinely think you should have fucking paid attention a long time ago. Yeah, man.

This shouldn't be sneaking up on you right now. This is on you and your people, right? These are your people. They're doing bad things. You should have fucking nipped this in the butt a long time ago. You should have had some hard,

knock down, drag ass fights with some of these evangelicals a long time ago. And should have had some hard, not knock down drag ass fights with some of these evangelicals a long time ago. And because then you could have at least positioned your your flock away from them. But instead you were like, hey, man, they're kind of

doing what I want. So I'll just let them do it. And they rode that same gravy train and now all of a sudden here it is. And you know what? As they say, Cecil, the dildo of consequences rarely comes lubed. What happened to those simple pleasures? Did they die with the dinosaurs and the Tyrannus Rex? In my book, they didn't.

And there's only one book. That's the Bible. So give it a read when you got a chance. Hey, last time I checked, Bibles were in libraries. Hey, good night. So this story comes from Newsweek. Republicans' wife replaces library books with Bibles. Now, this is the small little library books that are on the side of the road.

They're like little houses that are built. I didn't realize this was a nonprofit that does this all over the country. I just thought this was like a local thing when you happen to see it. 100% thought this was just like some person nearby was like, oh, I'll make one of these things because it seems pretty easy to put together. But evidently this is a whole nonprofit that had no idea. It's a take a book, leave a book, leave a book. But it's a national program where these people, I guess, fund this. There's ways to donate to it. And then they buy books that they then put inside of there. And then you take a book, leave a book. And they really do say that

they try to push for books that will help people grow. Yeah. And a diverse collection of thoughts and viewpoints and voices. It'll help people grow. And so that's a laudable goal. Yeah. I think like, I think that if you're not the worst, that is a beautiful and laudable goal. This Republican woman, she winds up going and taking Bibles that she gets for free or at the, at the thrift store. And she just replaces a book that she says, I pulled a bad one out and put one of these in. Well, and she's got a quote, let me scroll down. I want to, I'm going to read a quote here. Jennifer noted in her Facebook post, from what I've seen and put one of these in. Well, and she's got a quote. Scroll down. I'm going to read a quote here. Jennifer noted in her Facebook post,

from what I've seen, a lot of these books and other things, they don't align with our Christian values. Today, I saw a bunch of pride stuff in one. So she is seeing this beautiful, charitable, nonprofit program that is there to give and to have this like free exchange of ideas. And she's like, what if we homogenize that to just my idea? What if I just unilaterally went in and decided that your ideas are not fit for consumption by, she's not taking that book and reading it. That's the thing that like, cause her fucking idiot lawmaker husband is like, well,

she's just doing what she's allowed to do, which is take a book and leave a book. She's not going to take the book home and read it. Yeah. She's taking the book home and probably fucking destroying that book because she thinks that that book contains objectionable, like, you know, content. Like it's stuff that her fucking little brain refuses to wrap itself around. And then she seeds her indoctrinated bullshit into this, into this. She's the worst. Yeah.

It's such a petty, petty fucking thing to do. It also really shows that indoctrination in this case, you know, you could just indoctrinate your kid, right? Like, let's say this is a, you know, like you have a kid who you want them to go to church. You want them to follow the rules. Let's say you're, you know, one of these crazy people that doesn't believe in birthdays or Christmas or whatever. And you can do that, right? You can, you can separate your kid from everybody else and you can indoctrinate them as you see fit. I just want to say like quickly, I don't, some people will think like, I agree with that. I don't agree with that. I don't like that idea, but that like people have kids and that's what they do. And I have no power over stopping those people from doing what she's doing

is she's not just, just doing that for herself or just, just preaching something or trying to, uh, get her message out to people. What she's doing, she's trying to take away the other message. So you can't, I won't let you do this. I won't let you teach somebody something I don't want you to teach, right? That's not how this works. That's not how any of that works. Like you, you don't have a right to take that away from somebody else. Now, if this is your kid, you make all the decisions you want, right? You're your kid, you feed them, you house them, you make decisions about what goes in their head, right? That's what all parents do. All parents make those decisions,

whether it's a net nanny, whether it's church, whether it's books that you buy them, media that you buy them, whatever it is, you make those decisions, right? But once it's out of your house, you don't have any fucking say, whatever anybody else does. That's why these attacks on libraries and schools

and these little tiny little book houses that are all over the place. That's why these are so insidious because they want to pull those ideas away from you and your kids and your friends. They want to pull those ideas out of the thought, out of common thought. They don't want them to exist.

Yeah, this is, and they are not subtle about it this is intentional moral and intellectual gate yes exactly that's like they're just like look motherfucker i'm the funnel yeah i am the narrow edge of the fuck yes and that's what they're intending to do they're looking through like yeah i don't approve this is like this feels so like like from the simpsons like the fucking preacher's wife this feels so it feels so like, like from the Simpsons, like the fucking preacher's wife. This feels so, it feels so cartoonish and like absurd. If you wrote this in a comedy, you'd be like, that's ham-fisted. Write something better. My problem is that we are on day three of a massive heat wave with forest fires everywhere.

And I really don't think they're going to be able to spare anyone to help a couple of idiots who are trapped in an elevator. This is from politico cecil arizona republicans don't want to hear about the deadly heat wave it's like 110 degrees every day yeah and it's in arizona for a while like a chunk dude for a fucking hot minute it's been a hot minute right for serious and like in this the story in politico opens up where they're like yeah even in the fucking like law making house the air conditioner was broken and so they're in this fucking sweltering fucking stink box in their suits and they're fucking pouring sweat i would be a disaster oh my god i'd be i can't i would be a puddle i i wouldn't even be

a person i could not work like that like there's literally no way I could work like that. And they are refusing to engage in the conversations. They literally won't even engage conversations regarding climate change. And we are seeing, especially this year, we are seeing some massive changes in the Earth's climate when it comes to the Northern Hemisphere. We're seeing massive changes. Absolutely. Like these, and it's higher, like they were saying that during July, there was 10 or something

days that were the hottest days on record ever. Yeah. Ever. In the history that we have this stuff, there haven't been 10 days in a row that were hotter than these 10 days. And the last eight years have been the last eight hottest years on record. Yeah. And so, you know, we are existing in a place where we know this is a reality. That there is a constant growing of temperature.

And we're seeing massive changes in weather. And they're even predicting like within like, I think they were saying at 2050, they were saying that like there's a current in the ocean that might go away. It might just go away. And that would like totally ruin a whole bunch of things in- Jesus Christ.

Just go away because there's not anything that can- Help circulate. Yeah, because what was circulating before was a change in temperature and now it's just going to go away because there's like less of that around. And it can totally like completely change the entire face of Europe's climate.

It can like completely change it. And we're talking within 20 years, it could change it completely. And the problem is that these people that are in power right now are so entrenched and so blinders on that they can't foresee any, they don't want to see it. They literally, in this story, they will not see it.

People are coming at them with data and like, well, it's always hot down here. It's the desert. It's just hot. It's hot in Arizona. Water is wet. Even though it's been the hottest streak they've ever had, they still will say,

oh, well, I remember when I was a kid, it was hot. So it's just hot, whatever. It doesn't, because humans are real bad at this. Like you're bad at remembering, you're bad at wondering. That's why we have devices to tell us this stuff and measure it. And then we collect the data.

So the worst part is that there is a generation of people, and I think Gen X is part of this, right? That have blinders on. They have these blinders on. Boomers, Gen X, they're not thinking about the world 20 years down the road. They are thinking about what's here right now. And those people, they need to stop being in power,

period. They need to stop being in power. We've got to empower young people who want to change the world in a drastic way because it has to be done if there is going to be another two generations of human beings. Yeah. The current generations of people that are in power are ideologically opposed to the results of science. Yes. You cannot be ideologically opposed to the results of a fucking experiment. Yeah. That is fucking stupid. That is nonetheless absolutely the case.

we have like you know i have resisted for a long time probably because i'm old but like i have resisted for a long time the idea that somebody should be hired into uh some kind of like lawmaking position because they're young and youthful that we should that we should have more young and youthful people i thought that we just need the best people, the smartest people. We just need more young people. We need people who are invested in a future that I will not survive to see. That's the thing. That's the thing that makes older people more of a liability on that.

And I'm an older person. I speak as an older person. I don't know if you do this, but I want to raise my hand and say I'm guilty of this. When you read off something like 2050, in seconds, I already know how old I'm going to be. The first thing I do is calculate out how much will that matter to me? You say it's going to happen in 2050. I'm like, okay, that's 27 years.

I'm 45. So, you know, I'll be 62 or whatever, you know, 72. So I'm like, oh, all right. That sounds like it'll suck, but it's a tail end of my life. So I'm like, oh, all right, that sounds like it'll suck, but it's a tail end of my life. And like, whether or not I really think all that through that consciously, I think a lot of people think that shit through subconsciously, right? Or unconsciously. We're doing the math and being like, that's not my fucking problem.

And I think the real issue here, and I don't want to sound ageist. I know people are gonna be like, you sound so ageist. I don't want to sound ageist. I know people are going to be like, you sound so ageist. I don't want to sound ageist. What I want to say is it's not their age. It's their inability to care about something outside of their lifetime. That's what it is. It's just their inability to act and to care. I think as a general statement, a general sort of demographic statement,

young people seem to be more accepting of and promoting of radical change. And as we get older, I think we become more accepting of incremental change. And that's not, we are in a place where we need radical change. You have to have it now. You have to. If we do not, and I mean, every single day is critical and we're failing every day. Every day. So like, we're in a place where like, if we don't get people in who are willing to take radical steps, like change your life steps, like the day next week will not resemble your life two weeks before big time, fundamental restructuring of society type big steps. We are fixing this.

We aren't fixing it. Incremental change got us here. It will not get us forward. We can't walk back. We don't have the time. Yeah. We're out of time. Yeah.

So yeah. You gotta do something about it. Lawmakers are gonna sit in their own fucking sweat box. It feels like the frog in the boiling pan. It really does. And these are people who are presented with reality and are denying it. And these are people in power. They're in power there.

They're in power all over the entire world. And I really do think that there is going to be a breath of fresh air within the next couple of years in politics because of this. Because I think this is evident to everyone who's young. I think all the young people see this and think, and they're disgusted by it. And they're scared. And they're scared.

I would be too. My kids are genuinely scared. I don't blame them. My kids. I would have anxiety the whole time. They do. They're 16 and 17. And they're just,

there's a fatalism too, that is starting to creep in amongst young people. Yeah. That's like, I don't know what the point of any of that would be. The world won't be around in 70 years. And it's like, yeah, man, I can't tell you it will. Also real quick, Cecil,

I do want to also bring this up from that same article. And then I promise we'll move on. But also this is how they did address it. They addressed it by having the chaplain begin the Senate. I just want to bring this up he said we pray father for solutions to end suffering and for our temperatures to trend downward to provide relief for so many in harm's way yeah the legislative chaplain said as sweaty

heads bowed in the sun and that's and that's exactly that's that that is the extent of the help that they want to give to anyone to try to mitigate climate change. That's it. That's the extent. If we can wish it away, we'll do it. But if we can't do anything else, then that's the extent of the help we're going to do. Fuck it. That's it.

And that's the reality that we live in. Radical change is needed in government, period. Welcome back to Sports Dome. It's the startling confession that has the whole sports world buzzing. Soccer has come out of the closet to tell the world it's gay. A FIFA spokesperson made the announcement

at a press conference earlier today. Soccer is not ashamed of what it is. Soccer is a gay sport. Youth League soccer, the MLS, even the World Cup, all of it is completely gay. So Cecil, the story comes from the- I just want to put this on the big board because it's Trump's face.

And it really looks like, I don't know, like he's really trying to say choo-choo or something. His skin, Trump's skin, never good on any given day. In this picture, looks particularly overdone he looks he looks like a peking duck he does yeah that's he literally does his skin looks like it's crisp it looks crispy it absolutely looks rendered underneath and crispy so recently the uh the united states women's soccer team was uh in the World Cup series, the Women's World Cup, and United States was a favored team,

and they lost. I don't watch women's soccer, so I don't know. I don't watch soccer in general, but I know that the women's soccer team has been dominant for years. Very good. They've done very, very well,

and they lost. They got knocked out of the World Cup this year by Sweden. Yeah, and so this is what Trump tweeted right here. Shocking and totally unexpected. Quote, lost by the U.S. women's soccer team to Sweden is fully emblematic of what is happening to the once, to the our once great. That's what he wrote. To the our once great nation capitalized under crooked Joe Biden.

The former president scrawled. Quote, many of our players were openly hostile to America. under crooked Joe Biden. The former president scrawled, quote, many of our players were openly hostile to America. No other country behaved in such a manner or even close. Woke equals failure. Nice shot, Megan. The USA is going to hell. MAGA.

This is old man yells at cloud. It very much is. And this is an example too. They say things like, they hate America, so therefore I'm attacking them. But really you're attacking the American team. I mean, that's what you're doing. Like you're the one who's going after the American team.

I don't understand. I mean, you're the one who's supposed to be patriotic here. But you know, that's exactly why I grabbed this article, Cecil, is that I think what is fully emblematic here, to use his fucking weird turn of phrase, is that these guys are not actually patriots. Like, they are not pro-America. They do not want to make, like, America great again.

Because this same week, he said, yeah, I'd rather be in the south of France than be here. Yeah, I know. You know, America's going to hell. Nobody denigrates and shits on America like Trump. No, 100%. These guys actually hate America. They really do. You remember when Trump was campaigning and he would talk about like, like the, he would

describe all kinds of cities all across America as like shithole cities and like dangerous. And he would like use all these pejoratives to describe, you know, any number of cities all across the country. He hates America. He hates America. What these guys like is a vision for America that doesn't include you. Yeah. Right. And it doesn't include immigrants.

It doesn't include immigrants. And it puts women where they belong. Yep. Yeah. What they like is a vision for america that is for rich white men and the end make nobody else included in that club make no mistake one of the major reasons why they hate these women is because they're women absolutely make no mistake yeah this is this is women hate this is misogyny you know a thousand percent i like you can't like run the fucking test to see.

But I still I guarantee that if the men's soccer team was heavily favored to win and they had a fucking bad game and they lost that he would not be as comfortable tweeting this shit out. He tweets personal attacks against women with like regularity that is unmatched. All the time. All the time. All the time. He's a racist and he's a misogynist and it's not subtle. There's nothing subtle here. And it's coming together. His racism and his misogyny are coming together now

as he's attacking the possible prosecutor in Atlanta. Oh yeah. So he's making up stories. There's a story he's spreading about her slandering her saying she had, she was having a relationship with one of her previous clients and who was a drug dealer or something like that is what they said. And so he's saying that, and she's like, absolutely not. I defended that person when I was a defense attorney. And that's what I did. Like, that's literally what I did. I never had any relationship with them whatsoever.

And the Rolling Stone article that's about these two people that is talking about how they had a sort of mentor-mentee relationship because the person was a rapper and she was defending him. And they had sort of a men... He was a very young man and she's an older woman. And they had a mentor-mentee, an auntie and, you know of a men he was a very young man and she's an older woman and they had a mentor mentee an auntie and uh you know a nephew relationship not a a relationship like trump wants to think they had a relationship right and and he's slandering this woman could get her i mean this this type of talk could get you disbarred right it's it's absolutely it's literally slander

but it's because she's a woman he feels comfortable to do it he feels comfortable to attack women all the time because he's a bully he's a shitty bully yeah and he has been for years i mean even before all the presidential stuff do you remember all the shit talk he said with like we had a thing with rosie yeah rosie o'donnell yeah the fight and the the nasty shit that he said that was very pointedly misogynist, right? Like, this is a well he's comfortable going to and drawing from. Absolutely. He's a racist and a misogynist.

So, of course, he's going to go after the women's soccer team. And he's a homophobe. And he's a giant homophobe. And a perfect example is that, you know, like, he's going to go after anybody who sticks up for LGBTQ+. 100%. He'll go after them, too. Because for him, that's woke, right? Well, and this is a pander.

This is a pander to a base of people. He's not worried if he looks un-American. The thing is, the message that this appeals to is a bunch of people that don't like the reality of America. is a bunch of people that don't like the reality of America. What MAGA really means is, let's turn back the clock and make America unsafe for people of color. Let's make America unsafe for women. Let's make America unsafe for everybody

who's not a rich white guy. Yeah, you remake Back to the Future with a black guy, a gay guy, a trans person as the main character. It's a horror movie, right? It, a trans person as the main character, it's a horror movie. Sure. It's a fucking horror movie. I went back in time and now suddenly I'm like, holy fuck. If it's not a white kid,

a white boy, it's a horror movie. Yeah. So we're joined by Thomas Smith from the Where There's Woke podcast, as well as Sirius, inquiries only. What are you, is you looking at a squirrel? What is happening in your life where you are staring around?

Oh, I didn't see. This is why I don't do video. I didn't know I'd be subject to such scrutiny. I'm realizing that I have. So what happened was right when you started talking there, I realized your levels

are 800,000 times too high. So I was like, how do I turn this down? Blowing my brain. I don't know why it's coming in so fucking loud. It's coming in hot, buddy. It's coming in hot. How do I stop putting an end to this?

How do I make it stop? Okay, I finally found. And that's the end of the interview. Thomas Smith is like, how do I put an end to this? Boom. Look, let's face it. I do content mainly, I think, for Ian in particular. As a sound guy, there's not one place where I can adjust the sound.

There's 470 places. And I just have to do I feel lucky, like which one of these would be the best place, you know? I think I got a good one. So I'm set now. I will look straight forward. My eyes will be locked in. Straight ahead. You're locked in now. I will look straight forward. My eyes will be locked in. Straight ahead. Straight ahead. You're locked in now.

I will never look away. Locked in now. Let's make it weird. Just make it weird. Hard eye contact. Thomas. Into the void the whole time. Thomas, you started a brand new podcast.

Tell us about it. Oh, I did. It's called Where There's More. So it's really, it's a split because, you know, it's a cliche on all the fucking shows, but coming to terms with my ADHD really explained a lot about my life. That was previously a little unexplained. And I was having a hard time with Serious Inquiries

only because I was just split in so many directions that I wanted to take on. You know, it had always been kind of a, oh, it's just, you know, just trust me. It's things I want to either talk about or people I want to talk to. And it's like, that's the worst thing from a marketing perspective, of course, you know, just trust me. It's things I want to either talk about or people I want to talk to. And it's like, that's the worst thing from a marketing perspective, of course.

You know, it's like- It's a weird elevator pitch. Like, ah, just, you know, sometimes it's me. Sometimes it's Gasset. We talk about whatever. Just whatever. Sounds like the Joe Rogan podcast. You should be in.

Anyway, it does sound like the Joe Rogan podcast. It does sound like the Joe Rogan podcast. I mean, that is the most popular podcast. So we should all be doing exactly what the fuck that idiot does. Apparently talk for four hours a day about human growth hormone. Yeah. We can do a reenactment.

I can be like, Hey, you know, I heard that, um, fucking, you know, uh, the sky is actually orange. Hold on. Let me look that up. Jamie, we're going to need to look that up. Is there a website? Holy shit. There's a website that says the sky is orange sometimes.

Yeah, and then sometimes they're like, it's not orange. And he's like, well, okay, but you can see how I might think it's orange though. Yeah, great point. That's an excellent point you just made. That's one in your column. If anyone needs me, I need $150 million. I was always split. Like, I love doing interviews. I love it. I love talking to

scientists, experts, but every time I do that, I'd also have like, Oh, there's this like news item or political thing that like, that always feels more like, Oh, I need to get it out. And then I had this backlog of like really cool interviews that were like two months old that I was like, what am I doing? So I finally had the bright idea like, oh, fuck, idiot, you should just split it off. And so I finally was like, that sounds familiar. Yeah, right. I am is like, right when I think of it, I'm like, that's the perfect idea. Like, right when it clicks, I'm like, committed. And so I did that and I split off where there's woke is more of the commentary. And it's also it's not exactly what I've done before on SIO. I am evolving a little bit too,

to become more like a little bit of investigative. I won't call it fucking journalism. A little bit of reading stuff on, no, like in the vein of- Based on some of the journalism you've taken apart, I think you do get to use the word journalism. That's true. Yeah. Like, I don't think you're like worried about the bar being too high. It really isn't, you know, nowadays that, that like that that like there's some that's that's the thing is you look at real good journalists and and i look at them i'm like you're a wizard and i could never do your job like i i feel like thank you when it's about time you shut it i appreciate it i was talking about tom specifically thomas thank you thank you no would you would you like to see a

like a good investigative journalist? You know, that does that. I was reporting out the story for three years. I didn't do anything else. Yeah, I was stabbed twice, once in each eye, actually. One of the most depressing facts about our world is remember the Panama Papers? Or was it the second one? There was two papers, the Panama Papers and then like the Paradise Papers, right?

These people reported this out. They did this like cloak and dagger amazing you know reporting for years and it said like yes the rich people are hiding money here and like the second one that came out nobody cared it was like seriously they're like yeah no we basically we knew that last time like that level of rigorous like dedicated uh slow burn kind of like get all the facts just right as much as you can like it's it's it's vanishing and so compared to those people if there was one simple like an idiot yeah about the paradise papers then people would click that would that would work yeah

yeah it was like top nine revelations about this see there you go everything should be a listicle don't you get yeah they should have made a tiktok actually what they should have done and i think they you know they missed that with a dance bad yeah there should have been a dance rachel maddow here's the tax fraud dance that the rich are doing uh yeah it's called it's put the money over here and then nobody can't yeah the government the republicans fire all the IRS employees. So nobody can come after us. And then the right, when Biden tries to hire like three more of them, the right is like, you're coming after us and going to kill us with your IRS agents and idiots believe them. Anyway, separate story. The point is, yeah, it's actually, um, I noticed a pattern and I don't

know how much you fellows have gone into these things over the years, but like I noticed a pattern when every time there'd be some bullshit explosion about a campus thing or a blah, blah, blah, like Evergreen university, Jordan Peterson, Brad wines, all those people. I, especially early on, like I prided myself on like, Oh, I'm going to take a look objectively, get to the bottom of all this. I believe like both sides can be wrong. I was a real both sides of the eye back in the day. can be wrong. I was a real both sides of the eye back in the day. And, and I like, I'm not super proud of that, but it did mean like, I was looking at these things with a, with a truly open mind, especially back in like 20, you know, 14, when I first started with that side of it. And every time it was like, oh, they're just lying about it. Like, it's just, it,

it'll be something where, yeah, okay. There's a little bit of like, on one hand, the students were kind of dicks, but on the other hand, the grown adult who's paid to teach them was a bigger dick and the students are 18. I think maybe like they're not to blame. I think maybe the guy whose job it is who gets paid to do it should do better. And the students are students, they're kids, they're literally kids. And every single one of them was like that. It's only gotten worse. They're literally kids. And every single one of them was like that. And it's only gotten worse.

And it's, it's, it's fed into this narrative, this anti-woke thing to where they all reference these events, this common history. And it's been built upon lie upon lie upon lie upon lie upon lie that we're like way up in outer space. Like the lies have stacked that far. And when you reference any of them, no one fucking few people debunk them. Every time I'm in the midst of one right now and I Google and there's not a single result that tells the real story. It's all populated. I'm not saying no one's doing it, but literally all the right wing and not even right, like center left, like fire dot or that fucking organization that I think used to be good

that sucks. They flood it all with the anti-woke headlines about it. And that'll be the first as many pages of Google as you could possibly look at. And maybe somewhere there's another me debunking it, but I don't see it. I mean, and it might not be their fault. It might be that the other side floods the zone,

but one way or the other, nobody looks into it. And it's just so, it's so infuriating. So that's what I want to focus on. But boy, it is a lot of work to do that kind of. Is there still these campus, are these campus things still happening week after week? Because I remember they were like a thing. I thought a lot of that had dropped out.

It was a thing, but I don't pay attention to it. So is it still sort of where there's a brand new one this week and like Andy Mill or whatever is posting about it on Twitter and out there with his little camera getting shaked in the face. It evolves. So like, I think part of it is the Tucker Carlson situation. So he had literally a segment on his show called Campus Crazy.

And he did one every week. And it hasn't been that long since he's been shit can. Like, so he was still doing that segment. However many months ago that was, I don't know. Time has been a little weird for me to be honest this last year. But like he was still doing that recently. I don't know if I actually meant to check if the,

the dweeb who replaced him, it's just a fucking Russian nesting dolls of dweebs when they have to go down to the like JV, JV, JV, Fox racist, you know? And they're like,

fuck, where do we find another racist? What kind of tide is this new guy? Because like, that's really a set. We've already, we've already had the bow tie. Is it one of those Western ties? Yeah, like with the two things. Yeah, maybe fringe and a skull.

Little skull in there, like a little cow skull. The old timey Western tie with like. Oh, I bet you that's like cultural appropriation or something. So that would be even better for them. They'll be like, oh, I bet you that's like cultural appropriation or something. So that would be even better for them. They'll be like, yeah, proudly culturally appropriate.

Who cares? Can't stop me. You get, you get a ton of stuff from Tucker, but then also from like a Ron DeSantis campaign. I'm sure you get a ton

of stuff as well. Cause that, the word woke is used as a weapon by them to sort of attack an ideology. So I want to ask this. This is the – in preparing for this interview, long and hard, thinking deeply about it.

As a journalist. And I appreciate before, as a journalist. You noting my journalistic integrity and accuracy. I'm a little nervous to go one-on-one with Tom Curry on the firing line. Whoa. Whoa. Nervous to go one-on-one with Tom Curry in the firing line. Whoa.

Whoa. But I did want to ask this question in all seriousness. What is woke? What does that word mean? Because we're all using it. Everybody's using it. And I'm like, all right, but do we even have agreement across anywhere? Anywhere? Does that word mean anything?

What the fuck does that word mean? It's there. That is such a complicated question. That is a really good, you know, I should actually do like a 10 episode series on just that. Like for real, one of the,

so I had such a wealth of choices for the quotes to put in the intro that I wanted to do. There was a, it was somebody, Oh, what is her name? Bethany something, Frank. Oh, I might be confusing two people, but it's somebody like that who wrote a book about wokeness and they were in an interview and were asked like, so what, what is, could you define wokeness? And she's like, so wokeness is, and it was like 30 seconds of nothing. She was just like, ah. Tidy.

Yeah, it's nothing. Like she couldn't even answer the question. It's the being of the being of the being. She literally was on there to promote her book about wokeness. Like her anti-woke book about wokeness. And somebody was like, so what, could you define like the most basic thing? Like you're asking me now, Tom. Can you just define literally the one term you wrote a book about? And she's like, yeah.

And what's so great is she ends it by she stammers for 30 seconds ah it's oh so it's the it's the kind of and then she goes this is gonna be one of those viral moments i was trying to find a way to put it in my intro but like oh that's great silence doesn't translate very well in an intro you know right i can't really illustrate that she sat there in silence. Yeah. But yeah, like that's a good example. Wokeness, it's the ultimate dog whistle for everything you hate. If you're on the right, like if you're coming from that.

Okay. And these words very quickly don't be, stop being used earnestly. Like there's some initial, like long ago, I think it was started in the black community. You know, they refer to being woke and there'll be some other, I've looked at it before, but honestly, I forget it. Once I write a book on it, I'll have an answer for you. But the reason I don't know or care what the specific definition is, is because it's just used as a, as a boogeyman. It's just whatever whatever we're mad about the point is the malleability right yes like exactly exactly right and and uh to kind of go back to the question a second ago

as well and combine them the the campus craziness stuff sort of shifted a little bit and turned into the trans panic so you don't see as much about the campus crazy this is still there it'll always be there and there's also the like maybe true true believers who are still like that. Like I just fresh in my mind, like there's an academic one that I'm researching right now. And there are the people who I think are either useful idiots for the right and don't know it, or they're secretly right. Or one, one way or the other who just spend all their time on these campus controversies they still exist but it's sort of like the broader lens has kind of shifted a little and those people are still like yeah this is my battle the campus crusade and then mainly they're

like well no kind of we we're more into hating trans people now and being scared of literally everything they say or do and uh and and none of this none of the people ever go oh shit was i just being used by that group? I can see them now. They're down there and they're just harassing a trans person. They were behind me a second ago. How does somebody, like, so when I think about the term woke and I think about people using it as a pejorative, right? I think about Jordan Peterson and people like that.

How do they continue to cash in? Once they've cashed in once, what does Jordan Peterson do to continue cashing in? Because he doesn't seem like he's left it behind. He's continuing to use it. It does seem inexhaustible, does it not?

Right. We just did a recording on the the I don't know if you got the Richard Dawkins, you know, wokeness is a religion. Nothing that he wrote on Substack. Did you is that what I stopped paying attention to Dawkins a long time ago? Same. But like he just did a thing where he like advertised his he was going to publish a Substack.

It was it was a weird promotional thing. And it's exactly what you're talking about, where he was like, I'm going to answer this question from Dr. Jordan Peterson, someone with whom I disagree, but whom I greatly respect, even though, you know, he's literally a Christian who whatever. And it's the same shit that they were saying in 2014. Like, I don't understand how you could not evolve at all in that way. Like it's, it's like, well, did you know the woke, they are the thought police and also they, um, they burn heretics in that they get really mad at you on Twitter. It's like, yeah, man, you were saying this 10 years ago. It like, nobody gets tired of it, I guess. They never get tired of hearing their own thing reinforced, I guess.

It's beyond me. I don't get it. Something that strikes me from like the campus stuff, right? It's like, and it's, I think this, and tell me if you agree or disagree, but like a lot of this, a lot of the issues that get like amplified by the right when they're talking about woke stuff these are there is an intentional misalignment of energy toward really small stakes shit yes in order for them to generate amongst their audience a much bigger response energy yes so like this shit that happens at evergreen college i'm just if evergreen college

just folded up and went away entirely i would never know i didn't know what it was i still don't know where it is yeah i don't give a fuck nobody cares no it's american right yeah you could tell me it was in fucking maui i have no Doesn't matter. That's a weird name for a college in Maui. I don't fucking no idea. But I guess that's my point is like, well, these students at this, and they try to like write these issues large, even though they are fundamentally tiny issues. And I think the intent of all of that is just to galvanize and create energy within the base because there's no energy at the root of most of the things they're pushing on. Even the trans stuff, trans people make up

a tiny fraction of the population. But the outsized worry that the right has for the activity of trans people is grossly out of proportion to any power that trans people could possibly hope to exert hope to ever wield.

To ever wield. So, like, it seems like all of this is intentionally finding issues this big. Yeah. In order to, like, push this kind of response. Was that something you would agree with? Oh, 100%. And I think that, you know, we've all covered this before when, in 2020, when the Republicans just decided not to even have a platform.

There's like we don't need it. Whatever this guy says was the platform. It doesn't matter. There are no issues. Like literally, if there's any Republican fucking watching and listening to your fine program, which I don't know, maybe there's a couple like tell me one policy. You know, there's always one weirdo, though. Like, do you ever get that email? It's like, oh, actually, I'm very right wing.

But, you know, I just listened. And you're like, wow. Nope, nope, not anymore, man. Yeah, maybe that maybe I'm talking about like five years ago. Yeah, but that used to happen before Trump. Before Trump, those guys got weeded the fuck out. They are not allowed in this house anymore. I would challenge any Republican family member when you know you

all go home for thanksgiving or whatever and if there's none listening i guess we'll have to go find him at thanksgiving but uh i would challenge them like tell me a policy stance on for any republic like tell me like a bill that the right wants to pat not one that they want to fight not one they want to ruin that we're trying to do. Cause that doesn't, I mean, just not oppositional. Yeah.

Tell me what's the thing you stand for. And you, you maybe, maybe they'll be like, well, lower taxes, but freedom, freedom,

obviously bald Eagles. Well, actually I joke, but didn't roll in white flag buntings, rolling coal in your truck, rolling coal. Yeah. Truck bald eagles. Well, actually I joke, but didn't rolling wind flag buntings, rolling coal in your truck, rolling coal, truck nuts, truck nuts, whatever country music songs say. Absolutely. Try that in a small town. Yeah.

A resolution that hereby try that in a small town. Do you get so ordered that try it in a small town? Yeah. But I, you know, I made the joke a second ago, or you said freedom. There was that time. Gosh, it's been a little while. So I'm forgetting if it was the House or the Senate or who it was,

where they tried to advance a bill that was like the Freedom of Speech Act. And they're like, dude, we have a constitution. You don't actually, you're just passing like we, like just reiterating. You should just read the pre-work. Yeah, right. You don't have to get real far. Check the syllabus. You know, just check the syllabus.

It's just like, well, just extra. You don't have to read all of the amendments to get there. Like if you just like, if you give up right away. You give up quick. You give up. No, it's something like that. It's either a free speech act or something. And it was like, dudes, we already have that.

Like, you think you're, that's a good indication that the thing you're fighting against is pretend. Because you're like, oh, you know how we fix this thing? We pass the Constitution. You're like, well, considering that's already there, I think maybe you're full of shit. Like, something you're thinking about is wrong. And yeah, they don't have a platform.

So I would put it, there's a taxonomy that I want to build eventually of these things. There's the main category is completely misreported and lied about. Like that's not a number one. It's something that's just like these college things or whatever the woke controversies totally lied about. That's number one, because what they want to do is they find that simple out. They'll find something that's based on a kernel of something. And then they all decide to terribly misrepresent what that thing is, and then just spread it. They're just a perfect team. Everybody in this little ecosystem from the right to the center left, I think, that is anti-woke, like that whole brigade, they all get

on the exact same page to where, like I said, if you Google any of this shit, all you'll find is their results. And they'll all echo each other and they'll all link each other. And so that's number one is that bullshit. Number two would be like something that there may be a truth, which is, by the way, at the end of the day is, oh no, a college kid said something like that's like the, then that's the worst case scenario. And because college kids are college kids. Yeah. They can be wrong all the time. Why would, why would there be any reason we would expect that everyone at a college is always right? Like, even if they're on the left or whatever, like there are people

who are just idiots and they just make arguments terribly. And like, I wouldn't stand by him, but they'll be quoted. Like the two sides will be, here's how Florida is literally banning education and making trans people live in fear and not get healthcare. And all of a sudden abortion, by the way, has gone out the window. And on the other side, there's the student union and they wrote a letter and it said that this dude, this teacher should be fired. Now, was he fired? Not at all. But the letter said, I wish I were making a joke. That's this is literally real.

I'm describing a real thing like that. That is what they'll that'll be. They'll line them up. On the one side, we have a student group said this person should be fired. And I'm sitting here thinking like, well, I don't know if they should be fired, but like, it's so a 19 year old can't be like that person should be. Yeah. What is the stakes of that? Tom,

to your point, what is this? Should there be a headline? 19 year old says guy should be fired. Is that in today's world? The polarized caps are gone. The fucking, we got nobody can afford a house.

There's either. You could go down the list The fucking, we got, nobody can afford a house. There's, you could go down the list for 4,000 million billion issues to then at the bottom somewhere would be a college kid thought a professor should be fired and doesn't actually even have the power to do that. Just said like, I think they should be fired. That it's, it blows my mind.

No one has any perspective. Everyone has lost their fucking minds. You could be to that point. I often, and I don't know if people get annoyed at me for this. I'm not sure, but I often make the point that I could even just for fun, entertain the idea that you could be completely anti-woke on all your views. You can be like, yeah, I don't really get trans stuff. Like also, I think the college kids are kind of dumb. And also I don't even, I'm Christian. I don't really

like the gay stuff. You can take all those stances and still you could be like, yeah, but like, I think we should, you know, student debt is a problem. And also like, you know, global warming is an issue. And also everything you're making a big deal about on the right, that seems to be nothing. Like that seems to not really matter in the scheme of things. So you should still vote left if you were that person. Like there's no, unless you, the only excuse for voting for Trump or anyone on the right is getting caught up in that culture war to your point, Tom. That feeling that like, no, this is the most important thing. The Twitter, that's what they said.

Can you believe the tweets? Like, dude, that's not the world. There's so much else going on. I wonder if like the way they tap into this, we actually, Tom and I were having a conversation with another friend of ours the other night, and we were talking about progress, social progress. And we were talking about specifically some of the things that we thought were funny or movies we thought were funny maybe 20 years ago. And I have fond memories of some movies as I watch as a child that are extremely problematic

today. I'll watch that movie and I'll be like, holy shit, that was like a date rape scene. I had no idea that that was in the movie or something like, you know what I mean? There were a lot of those, my dude. Yeah. And not just that, but there was inappropriate touching. There was, you know, a ton of stuff in there. Casual racism, casual homophobia. So much homophobia. So much of that stuff, right? And we have, I still may have a fond memory of that.

And so when someone says something like, yeah, man, that movie's fucking crazy. That movie's super problematic. There's something in you that is like, whoa, wait a minute. And so there's a, I think that they're tapping into this idea that progress will make it so that you're a bad person, that things that you might have liked

are now, they're problematic and you're a problematic person because of it. And I think they're tapping into this because social progress works like that. There is going to be some bit of shame that you might feel for liking something back. And I certainly wouldn't suggest someone watch The Breakfast Club, for instance. I think that there's a lot of problematic shit in there. I made a joke on a recent citation needed about Johnny Five and Short Circuit,

the movie Short Circuit. And he was like, it's a super problematic movie. And I looked up and like, there's a dude in blackface in the movie. And I totally forgot there's a guy who plays an entire role in like, he's playing an Asian guy or not an Asian guy, an Indian guy. And he's not Indian. There is a need to be able to hold morally complicated positions with respect to like still being able to be like yeah short

circuit's a shit movie with bad values but i still can i i don't find it problematic to be like it held an important place in my life and it's yeah i don't need that's okay yeah but like you have to have a sort of morally complicated position but we, I think we have a morally simplistic society, particularly if you are a religious person. Religious people tell you that there's a, everything exists on a binary of good and evil and sin and salvation and all of this like really morally simplistic shit. So like, I think that there's probably a lot of pushback because it's like, well, I have to hold a morally complicated position or decide that that's just bad.

Yeah. By the way, and it'll be a movie you were never going to fucking watch again anyway. How much of your life was like, no, I was going to watch Short Circuit like tomorrow and be really excited about it. It's like, no, you're totally right. No, you're totally right. It's all these same things, especially that's what disappointed me so much. A lot of things about like, you know, the rational community that we thought we were a part of going this route. A lot of them, not all, of course, not all of them, but like that was what disappointed

me so bad about that. Cause it's like, okay. Marsh is a real problem. Yeah, he is. I agree. Marsh, that fucking guy. Yikes. We're kidding, guys.

There's going to be people who are going to email us like, what happened to Marsh? Nothing. He's salt of the earth. What was it he did? Just go to any of Eli's websites. You'll see what Marsh did. He did COVID or 9-11 or one of them. Both of them. All of them. I don't know. Sure. Sure. I get that immature people,

stupid people, Christians, people like that, fundamentalists, I get that they would have a hard time with that. Like, yeah, sure. It's being a reactionary. It's a tale as old as time. And there's a reactionary, you know, there's a reaction to this progress exactly in the way you're talking about, 100%. And I always thought like, well, as a skeptic, as a rational person, I think it's for me, I'm like, well, why don't I just examine that?

And like you say, Tom, it's like, well, you know, there are movies that that I love. You know, I'm trying to think of like the the worst example offhand. I really love the Peter Pan cartoon. You really see it when you have kids. And, you know, if they are like mine and just obsessively watch everything on Disney, they put that warning in there now of like, hey, this wasn't super cool. And with Peter Pan, like I love some of the music to that cartoon. Like I really, I just, I enjoy it. Like it has a nice feel to me.

And, and, but you look at, you get to the scenes with Tiger Lily and you look at how they animated the Native Americans and you're like, Jesus fucking Christ. Wow. That was bad. Like it just christ wow that was bad like it just it objectively was bad even then it's just no one cared you know it's not like and so that's a hard one because it's like ah that that's for me that's a close call like my kids have watched it but i try explain it to them like hey this is like this was not very nice how they did this you know they're little so they don't understand. But you draw your line. You see, in this scene, what's trying to happen is

Tiger Lily is trying to sexually seduce Peter Pan in order to move him from child and adolescent into adult. Why are you not? Okay, eat your dino nuggets, fucking whatever. All right, but if he fucks her, if he fucks her, I told you I had it. That's what that scene is. That's the thing that takes us down to YouTube too.

That what Tom just said. The key is like, it's not just that these reactionaries, the people who are anti-woke, it's not just that they want to be able to still enjoy the things themselves. They also want you to tell them it's okay. Yeah. Or something.

Or they interpret, a lot of this stuff will be people over-interpreting what they're actually hearing. So like if someone online says, yeah, you know, the way they did the Native American, like the Tiger Lee's dad, you know, is like, it's really, it's animated badly. And what they hear and what they'll respond to is often,

these people want to ban this movie. They want to ban this movie. They just make up a whole thing. It's like, they didn't say that. Or they'll say, you think I'm a bad person. Yeah. Like, no, I just, I just think that part is problematic. That's all. Cartoons are racist. That's what they said. No, I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying I don't like the thing. Yeah. Well, I, you know, I will say like, I really understood that concept Cecil better after reading White Fragility. Yeah. The idea that you can be

like, yeah, you know what? It turns out I am racist. Like, because, yes, I am. Because I'm part of a racist system. And like, trying to divorce myself from a set of beliefs that I've been indoctrinated and socialized into as a white male my whole life.

I'm never going to escape that, right? But that doesn't necessarily make me a bad person. Like, it makes me a bad person when I don't respond and improve. Or try to keep going. Yeah, try to makes me a bad person when I don't respond and improve. Or try to keep going. Yeah. So when I don't respond and try to improve, then that's where I have moral culpability.

But I think you're absolutely right. I think people are like pushing back because they don't want to be like, you got to teach CRT in my schools. Well, then I'm going to feel bad to be a white guy. Like, well, I'll tell you what. I don't feel bad to be a white guy. Yeah. Right. You do because you're not contending with your shit, man.

So, like, what you're doing is being like, I don't want to contend with this topic in a real way. So, I'm going to, like, stick it in a bucket. Exactly. Thomas, how much of this stuff, just to go back to the journalism piece, because that's kind of my background, as you know. Of course. I'm talking to the journalism piece, because that's kind of my background, as you know. Of course. I'm talking to the Tom Curry. Again, thank you for acknowledging it. Journalist to journalist.

Yeah, yeah. Is my Pulitzer in the shot? Is my Pulitzer in the shot? I can't. Anyway. So, no, it's not. Cecil's shaking his head no, it is definitely not in the shot. So for all the bad reporting, you're still laughing.

For all the bad reporting that's being done, how much of that bad reporting around wokeism would you lay at the feet of the economic death of journalism? Oh, that's interesting. That's actually, I'm not sure that's the issue. I don't know. Yeah, that's, I see that as a little bit. It's easy to click, right? That's kind of what I mean, right? It's that journalism has changed in our lifetimes.

Journalism has changed and the economics of journalism have changed. And I think that to frame that question maybe for the audience is what I mean is as as the money for journalism has rapidly declined at the same time that the need for output has dramatically increased and then the way to get you know output that matters is to get engagement those are those are all economic factors that seem to me to conspire to produce this exact kind of bad inflammatory journalism. So in throwing that back and forth, my brand deal noodle a little bit, I think one counter argument would be the New York Times is more profitable than ever. And a lot of this that I've critiqued lately is at the New York Times.

So I don't think like with that specific example, I think, and this, you know, this is an argument Eli and I have a lot, I'm curious where you guys sit on this. Eli is very much, Eli is not saying, yeah, there you go. So, so we, I don't even need to say what it is. No, I actually am curious about your view on this. Like he often looks at these people as from the perspective of nobody actually believes anything. They're just saying whatever to get clicks. Like with Richard Dawkins, for example, and the anti-trans stuff, you know, he's often like, yeah, he's just lying for, you know, fun and profit, whatever. And I don't know. I never can quite go there.

Like I just it strikes me as so bizarre. Like why you especially when you talk about people like JK Rowling, people like other people who are like, you already had all the money. Like there's, it doesn't make economically. That doesn't make sense for them in particular to make that choice purely out of selfish motives.

I tend to treat most people who are actively, you know, writing, pushing anti-woke stuff, not Tucker Carlson. Cause that guy's fucking different category, but like some of these, you know, writing, pushing anti-woke stuff, not Tucker Carlson, because that guy's fucking different category, but like some of these, you know, journalists or people who are kind of in that realm that are, they're not right wingers, but they're like, oh, I believe in free

speech. And you see the college kids are threatening free speech. I kind of think they just believe it. I personally, I don't know. What do you, what do you think? Do you tend to take people at their word when they're, you know, whether it's Richard Dawkins with his trans stuff or what do you think? It depends on the person. I mean, I feel like, you know, there's part of me that thinks that the big politicians, the biggest politicians in the country probably don't believe it as much, but utilize it, utilize it. Um, people in the media, you know, I, if you're going to talk about, say like, let's say Joe Rogan, do I think Joe Rogan believes what he says? Yeah, I do.

Yeah. I think he's a simple guy. But he says 18 contradictory things a day. I think he's a simple guy and he contradicts himself and he's a dummy and he says dumb stuff. And I think he believes. I think he's gullible. I think he's easy to trick. And I think that he's, so when somebody comes in with an issue and they do a bong with him and he's like, man, that sucks

that you were almost fired. And then he's like, man, it's really sucks. And then like, I really think he believes that. I think he genuinely is, is credulous and he believes whatever anybody tells them if they have a microphone and they're sitting across the table from him. So I think that people do genuinely, I think a lot of these media personalities do believe it, but I do think that there is some accentuating of it for more publicity. I think Tucker Carlson's a perfect example. I think Tucker Carlson's always been a bastard, but I think Tucker Carlson accentuates it. He pushes it out so that more people see him and it gets him like more clicks. It's a rage bait. He knows how to rage bait. I would add to that that just like I think that the forces of capitalism tend to poison even most people's best interests, I think the attention economy does the same thing.

I think that the attention economy is as poison as capitalism. And so there are people, look at Dawkins as a great example. Dawkins, I'm just going to pretend, I don't know that this is true, but it would not surprise me if the driving force here is a desire for continued attention and relevance. And so you can do that in one of many ways, right? He could write a brand new book about evolutionary biology that 12 people are going to fucking read, or he can tweet some shit out, or he can like debate somebody

or have a fucking talk with an inflammatory narcissist like Jordan Peterson. The attention economy, I think, is as or more poisonous than capitalism. And it drives a lot of activity. I think it really is like some there's sometimes where I just maybe I can't step outside my own lens because I just I see that. But but like if you didn't really believe it, you could get tons of attention by going the other way. I mean, this isn't a one sided this particular thing, the attention economy, all the economics

of it, that's not a left or right issue. That's across the board. There's no money in papers. There's no, you know, like that financial problem. And so there's plenty of content on the left that fear mongers on the left. I happen to believe that more of it's accurate, but like it still needs to play on those emotions to drive engagement, to do all those same things. So I don't think the choices between going anti-woke or nothing. I think it could be,

yeah, you could go anti-woke or if you're just purely profit driven and you happen to be someone who's vaguely left, you could go the other way. You could become one of these leftist podcasts or whatever it is, leftist papers, leftist columnists, Twitter personalities, whatever, leftist podcasts or whatever it is, leftist papers, leftist columnists, Twitter personalities, whatever, who push the emotions the other way and try to cash in that way. Like even if money's just your motive. So I feel like there's, I don't know. I also feel like what we saw with Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and a lot of those people from 2015, whenever that started happening, 2014, like I think they just have a circle jerk of friends who all tell the same few lies about this stuff

and they just reinforce it with each other. And they just start to believe that that's the world. You know, it really, like, what is it? Like, Niall Ferguson. There's a couple of those, like, Ayaan Hirsi Ali's husband. Is that who that is? I can't.

They have friends who are very conservative and they kind of got in good graces with them. And I just feel like that's affecting their information diet to where they think these things are plausible. And once you take this dim view of students, of colleges, of blah, blah, blah, you're more and more willing to believe inaccurate things. Like if somebody told you Trump tripped over his own ball sack and fell into a pile of cow manure or whatever,

you and I are going to be like, well, maybe. We're more prone to, that's an exaggeration, but we're more prone to believe he's going to do a dumb thing because we accurately know he's a dumb guy. But also, we're kind of hoping for it I mean we did we watched him look directly

into the eclipse we did watch him look directly into the sun did he kind of spread his fingers a little did he make like a little did he make a little dog you can keep most of the photons out if you want like I

you know and so in my opinion it's it's a more jesus christ remember when the president stared right at the sun do you remember that yeah see so that's just science that actually works that's a bad example because that'll thomas tell us how to find your show uh just search where there's woke man i we're it's the it's the 90 nineties. No, what year is it? It's 2023. And I don't even have a website for it. Cause I, I probably should, but I,

you know, nobody does that anymore. I say, just search it, just search where there's woke in any podcast delivery thing. And I'd really appreciate people. Listen, there's some,

there's some really interesting stuff. Um, the first one is about elevator gate. And, uh, I know a lot of people listening will, will, that'll be fun. That's a way back machine thing. I listened to that episode.

I was like, I don't know that I fully know. I'm glad you started this all the way back at the beginning of time. Cool. Yeah. When that right on that Tyrannosaurus was really interested in what that Stegosaurus. Yeah.

And then I went on the whole, you know, James Webb Telescope controversy, which is a whole thing. That is an audio book essentially now at this point. And there's so much more planned, you know. So thank you so much for having me. And yeah, please check out Where There's Woke. There's so much to debunk. And it's so infuriating to see how many like ostensibly serious people just lie or don't check the facts on these things. And I've only just begun to start pointing it out.

There's so much more to do. And then you've also still got serious inquiries only for all of your expert interviews. So you split the two so you can check out your other work there. And you've got a third podcast, if I recall. I don't know what that one is. That is... Abortions are good is what it's called, I think. Dear old dads, of course. Yeah, it's also called Now You Tell Me. Deceptive is the rule. Oh, boy.

Yeah, of course, dear old dads. That is... I have to publish one. I've got to edit right now, dear old dads. I love it. It's always a pleasure. And yeah, thanks for mentioning Serious Inquiries Only because I don't want to give that one short shrift or whatever

because I am doing more interviews than ever on there. They're so much fun. I've got astronomy ones. Sorry, astrophysics more accurately. That's a lot of fun. Some bad science journalism. Yes, I also know the difference, by the way. I just wanted to be clear.

Tom had to lean on his Pulitzer for that one. Yeah, I did. Yeah, so lots of good stuff. Expert interviews over there. I appreciate you mentioning that. And of course, dear old dads. I assume everyone's already listening to that. Or they're just so anti-natalist that they don't.

Yeah, I don't listen because I hate kids. Thomas, thanks for joining us, though. We really appreciate it. Appreciate it, bud. Thomas, thanks for joining us, though. We really appreciate it. Appreciate it, bud. So I want to thank Thomas Smith for joining us today.

You can check out his new podcast, Where There's Woke. You could also check out, of course, Serious Inquiries Only and Dear Old Dads, where Tom is also a part of that. So that is going to wrap it up for this week. Remember, this upcoming Thursday night will be our live stream. And so we'll be live streaming 9 p.m. Central. We're going to try to do that once a month. And so this is the week that we would do it.

So be there on August 17th, 9 p.m. Central Time on YouTube and Twitch, and we'll be live streaming. So come check us out. All right, that is going to wrap it up for this week. We're going to leave like we always do with the Skeptic's Creed. Scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead, pan, sales pitch, late night info-docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls,

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