Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 824: DOGE Keeps Failing So Hard

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

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Ontario. This episode of cognitive dissonance is brought to you by our patrons you fucking rock. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. Recording live from Glory Hole Studios in Chicago and beyond, this is the Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way, we bring critical thinking, skepticism and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big or makes us mad. It's skeptical, it's political and there is no welcome mat.

Today is Thursday, February 20th. We're about a month in buddy. A month. Today's a month. Yeah. How many is that now? What do we got left? We got 47 left.

47 left buddy. Let's see if we can do them. It's been a bad. Cash Patel today. Cash Patel. That's terrible news. That's a fucking QAnon conspiracy theorist. Yep. That's terrible news. That's a fucking QAnon conspiracy theorist. Yep. That's genuinely leading...

I mean, a QAnon conspiracy theorist that's unabashed. Although he said that he didn't believe that stuff in the hearing, but who cares? He's got a history, like a written story, like a checkable history of that shit. Markowski and... who's the lady from? Collins. Collins, yeah. Said no, but it was still 49 51. Great, awesome.

Because fucking Mitch McConnell voted for him. Sure he did. Mitch McConnell, like if anybody was holding out hope that like you would be able to look to old grandpa turtle for like some semblance of like oppositional integrity from within, you're fucking delusional. Like he maybe doesn't like one thing here or there, but he's not gonna do anything.

He's also fucking neutered at this point. I feel like what they're doing too is the few people that are really find these people distasteful, they're letting them have a chance to not vote, even though it's all gonna pass. So even if, you know, all of us, we can throw our nose up at certain people, but nobody's doing it all at the same one.

Right, yeah. Enough to knock it out. That's true. It's just, oh, Murkowski gets to voice her dissent on this one. And then McConnell gets to voice his dissent on this one. And then McConnell gets to voice his dissent on this one. But never do they voice their dissent altogether enough to make sure somebody like Cash Patel

doesn't become your FBI director. Yeah, and then all of those people get to say, look, I didn't just rubber stamp everything that happened. What I did is I selectively rubber stamped in a strategic way that lets me lie to you, my constituents. It says, I know we said when Trump got elected, we were not gonna talk about Trump all the time. And I just wanna say, I'm sorry that's not possible.

And I mean, I wanna say that, I wanna make sure they emphasize that. I'm sorry that that's not possible. It's not possible though. We've got it like, the shit that's going on is faster and crazier and stranger than I imagined it would be already. What I'm gonna try to do is talk about stuff they do rather than the triggering stuff he's doing

to try to trigger people. So we didn't put in the notes this week, the King comment. That's not in here. We're not gonna talk about that comment where he called himself a king other than not in here. We're not gonna talk about that comment where he called himself a king other than me just mentioning that we're not gonna talk about it, right? Because it's there very specifically to make you angry.

It's there very specifically to trigger us, to make us upset, to make us talk about it, and to make us talk about him. That's not necessary. Now the stuff he did do, that stuff you gotta talk about. That stuff you gotta talk about. You have to talk about that stuff. You can't skip and not talk about that.

That is fucking evil. Evil? Yeah, evil. And the sad thing is, you can't even comprehend why it's evil because you've never had to feel anything. It must be so nice to be as numb to the world as you Protected and sheltered by your own shallowness so much so that you don't even realize what you're doing is downright wrong You done

Why are you such an asshole I Don't know. It's a gift. No, it's just sad. This story comes from CNBC. White House post video of immigrants in shackles calls it deportation footage ASMR. And that is literally from the White House. I'll put the I'm going to put it on the big screen so you can see it.

Cecil showed me this before we started. I'm not going to play it. I'm not going to play it because it's the big screen so you can see it Cecil showed me this before we started I'm not gonna play it I'm not gonna play cuz it's just sounds of chains and and like Jetsons and I also like just honestly the video after Cecil played It for me. I had a moment where I was just struck dumb It's the title of it is ASMR illegal alien deportation flight. This is from the White House's official Instagram page. Yeah, or Twitter Twitter, I guess that's their Twitter. And it is human beings being put in four point shackle harness things, you know,

like so their arms are shackled, their legs are shackled, they're, you know, chained around their waist. These are people, like this calls to mind the internment camps that we put Japanese people in in World War II. This calls to mind the rounding up of Jews in the ghettos. This calls to mind a past which we were supposed to have gone to school and read books about not doing that anymore. We were all supposed to have gone to school and read books about not doing that anymore.

We were all supposed to have done that. I don't understand how some segment of the population skipped that part. When I went to school, and I'm sure it was the same for you, literally you learn about these things and you absorb them as the horrible mistakes of the past, the racisms of the past, the mistakes, the small mindedness, the xenophobia,

the cruelty, the inhumanity, that's how I absorbed all of that, that was the message that was supposed to underlie that. What makes me crazy is that like now we've got some significant percentage of the population that's jerking off to this evil, horrible bullshit again. And it's more visible than it's ever been before. One of the things that I remember always like wondering was like, God, you know, like what

about the regular people, you know, that of Germany who were living near these, you know, camps or living near these ghettos or these places where people were rounded up. And I think that I had what may be a historically erroneous assumption that many people, the regular people, didn't know, right? And I think in 1930, 1940, you can be forgiven for not knowing things because the world was not as accessible. When you put on your fucking Twitter

or your goddamn Instagram, we have to look at this. We have to see this. We have to look at this. We have to see this. We have to look this right in the eye and know that like, I see what's happening. I know what's going on. Like if my kids ask me, did you know? I have to say yes.

You have to say yes. Yeah, you have to say yes. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I don't know whether or not the people that were depicted in this video were actually immigrants or if it was just, they just got one of their guys to put on a coat and play the part and shuffle up the jet stairway anyway.

But it doesn't matter, right? Like doesn't matter whether it's a real person who's doing it or you're depicting it. It's still you relishing the thought of doing this. Whether it's real or not. Now, here's the thing, we know it's real. We know they've sent people away. So we know it's real enough for them to have done it.

So whether or not they're relishing that particular moment or just the memory of it doesn't really matter. That's still the same. It's still the same thing. And it still sends the same message to the people in this country who very much disagree with this action and how we're treating people who come to this country. And it also sends a message to all the people

who are immigrants in this country. I mean, this is a guy who wants to wipe away birthright citizenship. This is a person who has said in a couple of different times that it doesn't matter whether or not you're an actually a naturalized citizen or not. Right.

I mean, there's a person who just really just wants a white America and all the places in the world that are white that feed into here, that's fine. Any other colors, sorry, we're not super interested in that. So we've seen that. We've seen his comments about this. It's not a secret.

It's not like I'm making this up. This is like literally the platform of this entire administration. But this is such a disgusting thing to show. And it's really made, it's made to not only do what you suggest, which is let's make sure that we put out something that all of the hateful, bad human beings

who enjoy this sort of thing are gonna relish, but also put out something that's going to upset a group of people and scare a group of people. Yeah. Yeah. And some of those, there might be a Venn diagram where those things overlap. there is a certain amount of bad thinking probably where the Trump administration thinks if they put videos like this out, that it will discourage immigrants from trying to come over and cross the border. So that's why they, that's why they did the detention with the separating kids from their parents. That's why, I mean, that's why fucking that guy even said it. That ghoul even said that out loud.

Make it as miserable as possible for these people and you'll discourage the other people. But like to the point of whether or not it's real, like I think that like this, that would, people who wanna focus or fixate on whether or not something is real, I just, this is a larger point. You missed the point. Like we're at a place where the message still matters, even if when it was filmed, that wasn't a thing that was happening

to that specific person, honestly. And it matters because one, the person who is saying it, in this case, the White House, is an empowered body, and they are delivering this to you as if it were true. And that matters, right? It's like, if I go to your house and I look through your movie collection and I find a bunch of homemade snuff films.

Then you will. I know. I'm here. That is intensely problematic in telling about who you are as a person, even if they're fake. Even if they're fake, I now know something about you that is not good. That does not reflect well on your character. So it's not a get out of jail. We do this thing all the time now that we're in a post-truth world, now that we're in this

Photoshopped version of reality where we're saying, oh, well, it's not real. So it can't carry a message. That's nonsense. Don't let yourself do that don't get fixated on whether or not something is real if you want to say does it still carry a message? It does yeah, it does same thing the same thing goes for that. Nazi salute, right? Yeah for that for that not whether it's fake or not It doesn't matter whether he's trying to troll people or if he's actually doing a Nazi salute. It's the same message Yes, regardless of whether or not it's real like a Nazi salute, it's the same message. Regardless of whether

or not it's real, like a real honest to goodness Nazi salute, doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is, uh, this is heavy duty doc. This is great. Uh, does it run like on, on regular, on leaded gasoline? Unfortunately, no, it requires something with a little more kick. Plutonium. Uh, plutonium, wait a minute. Are you telling me that this sucker is nuclear? So it's been fucking chaos at the firing factory. I'm gonna call up two of these, Tom.

There's two in a row that we're gonna do. Hey man, quick pop quiz. What's super duper fucking important? A, nuclear weapons. Sure. B, food. I'm going to go with D all of the above. So in the fucking zeal to just fire everybody and then see what happens, the fucking Doge clowns fired a whole bunch of people at the

fucking department of energy. The department of energy are the guys who make sure that the nuclear weapons don't do the things you don't want nuclear weapons to do and only do the things that you want nuclear weapons and nuclear energy in general. And then the USDA who's like, yeah, do you like Listeria? And you're like, no, it kills me a whole lot. That's terrible. I don't want that at all. They're like, well, we try to make sure you don't have Listeria. And we're just like, some of you are fired.

But now we're now the Trump administration is like, oh, shit. Oops. We shouldn't actually fire the nuclear and food safety guys because we don't want to be on fire and eat Listeria hamburgers. I didn't say Simon says I'll fire a department of energy official when I pull it out of the hat and it's not a practice. They're like walking away.

Oh, you got me. Dude, seriously though, like a mess. Like if anybody thought and, and there were people who thought that Trump was going to come in and run a government more efficiently, this should tell you that they just don't know what they're doing. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know what they're doing. And this could be a saving grace for us.

I really could. It really could be a saving grace that they just don't understand the workings of government well enough. We're going to cover so many different stories today that show you that they really don't understand how thingsings of government well enough. We're gonna cover so many different stories today that show you that they really don't understand how things work. They really don't get it. They don't understand it, they don't get it.

And so, but this is one of those things that like, trust me, there isn't a single person in his administration that he didn't already know, right? You know, this is the important thing we have to remember. When he picks somebody for the Department of Energy, if he picks somebody, right. I don't know if he did or not. Right. But if he picks somebody for the Department of Energy, he's going to pick like Triple H from the WWE. How not surprised would you be? It's three H's and those are all hydrogens. But like, seriously, like, he picks people he knows.

How good could these people be at these very specific jobs if he's only choosing from the people he knows personally? There's no way they could be. Like, if I were to say to you, Tom, I want you to pick somebody to head the Department of Education, you wouldn't be like, well, let me flip through my Rolodex.

You would be like, well, let me flip through my Rolodex. You would be like, well, let me see who's the top minds in our country that are dealing with education right now. Maybe you might take a Dean from Harvard University or something, or the Dean of Education School or something, or whatever. I'm just making, I don't even know. Maybe that guy sucks. Maybe that guy's terrible.

I don't even know. We're going to get an email, do you guys not know about Dean of Harvard? But at least, at least it doesn't matter whether that person sucks or not. I guarantee they're more capable than Linda McMahon. I guarantee it, right? This guy came in and he's choosing only people he knows. That should tell you everything you need to know about his administration. I was listening to a story, I don't know, I was driving, I was listening to a story yesterday, the day before. I can't keep track of time anymore,

and nothing matters, where they were interviewing a whole bunch of people who'd resigned, they were like, oh, I'll take, they got the fork in the road. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this one woman was like, yeah, I work for this agency, I'm a very highly sought after, skilled person, I realized I could get six months

of paychecks, I've always wanted to work, but I don't think I'm going to be able to for the federal government anymore. So it made a lot of sense for my family. So I typed resign and I told my supervisor and like we were all sad and I was going to leave and like, so are these other colleagues. And then like a few days later, they got an email like, oh, you're, you actually can't resign. We're not offering this to you.

You're exempt from the resignation. So it's incompetently done. It's incompetently done, this to you. You're exempt from the resignation. So it's incompetently done. It's incompetently done start to finish. And I know that like, here's the thing that I worry about Cecil. It's like, if you give a contractor a hammer and you say, demolish this house, he'll do a really good job

because he knows how to demolish a house with a hammer. If you give a teenager a hammer and you say, demolish this house, maybe he can't demolish it as with a hammer. If you give a teenager a hammer and you say demolish this house, maybe he can't demolish it as well as the contractor, but he can still fuck that house up real bad. I worry that like there's such a level of incompetence that these agencies will be way too stretched. They'll collapse on themselves.

They'll lose employees. They're hoping for. Yeah. I mean, that's what they're hoping for. Like at some point, like at what point is like the FAA not going to function or what point is like, are the people at the TSA no longer going to be able to function? Like are we going to have, are we going to have planes crash? Literally, like, are we going to have planes crashing?

Yeah, man. More. I mean, like, you know, government is service, and it's not something that you should be cutting to try to make a profit or to try to lean it down in a way to make sure. Like, the money that they're saving, and you saw the dumbass thing this week where he said he wants to give people a $5,000 dividend.

Oh my God. Like, that's trillions of dollars. Like, how do you get that? You'll never get that money. Like, there's no way. That's a lie. He's saying that to get you to like him, so that you get that? You'll never get that money. Like, there's no way. That's a lie. He's saying that to get you to like him. So then you're like, oh man, everybody will get five grand

and then he won't give it to you. And he'll give it to all his friends and be like, we tried, sorry. Yeah, and like, one, you know, as soon as I saw that, I immediately pulled out my calculator, realized it doesn't go high enough, went on the internet and used an internet calculator.

And then I just took the population of the United States and I took how many people those were adults. And I did a couple of quick cut downs and it's, you're right, it's over a trillion dollars. And like delivering that money back to the people of the United States makes no sense. First of all, it makes no sense at all. Those same people were bitching about the traumatic effect

of stimulus packages, this would just be a giant stimulus package. So presumably, even if you're Republican, you wouldn't want to do this. Third, it's never ever going to happen, right? Any cuts they make, they're just going to deliver back to themselves in the form of tax cuts to their fucking cronies. That's what the plan was from the very beginning. But like the whole idea here is they're just gonna tell you a thing that makes you happy. And at the same time, they will cost you way more than $5,000.

You will, the costs in your life will increase more than $5,000 if there's no goddamn government services. Yeah. That's what people don't understand. The Department of like, I know because it's a big deal right now, everyone's still talking about the Department of Education. It doesn't touch everybody's life, but it touches most people's lives at some point in their life. The Department of Education is student loans, right? So like the Department

of Education is grants for school. The Department of Education is special education. The Department of Education does a lot of stuff and that stuff is still going to need to get done. The constituencies in your neighborhood are not going to say, well, I guess we just won't have special education anymore. What that's going to do is raise your goddamn property taxes, dumbass. Your taxes are going to go up. Your taxes are going to go through the roof. Yeah. Or your schools are going to hit the toilet. Yeah. Those are the only two options. And at the end of the year,

when you look at your paycheck, it hasn't changed. No. It won't change. It's not changing, man. So you're basically just trading that money in for someone else to get a tax cut and for you to pay more in property taxes. So your overall tax burden goes up,

your overall services go down. Yes. It's a bad trade both ways. What I don't get is these people who work for the government, there seems to be quite a few of them who are on the far right that voted for Trump. Yeah. And I'm like, why would you do that?

He had said he's gonna go in and start cutting things. I know where- I'm seeing so many people. I'm like, what is that? Even people- I know that even I know man how many people he cut from the Park Service like he just laid off like thousands of people and you're like of course he did he fucked with the Park Service the first time yeah he's already fucked with that same thing the first time I this is like I don't want to do the leopards and the Fafo thing. I really don't.

But like also, you did have to know. You just, you did. You kind of did. You did have to know because you said it out loud. And I don't understand the surprise. The surprise is the part that I'm not even trying to rub it in anyone's face, but I'm trying to be like, how do I get the surprise from here?

Yeah. Because who's surprised? I kind of wish I was, I'm trying to be like, how do I get to surprise from here? Yeah. Because who's surprised? I kind of wish I was. I'm going to be honest. I really wish I could be one of those people that you could go through the world so tragically unaware of things. That you could just go through the world and be like, yeah, I'm just so unaware of how the world works that when I do a horrific thing for my own future, I didn't even realize I did it.

Yeah. That's kind of awesome, actually. Look, ignorance is bliss makes sense, right? Like, they're... Tell me! How do you walk around? Well, no, I mean like that, those two wires that are in that pond over there, maybe it's heating it up. I don't know. Like, could you imagine? How do you not just walk into a glass wall all day?

Seriously, man. Like, at some point, aren't you just like constantly beating your head in a window like a bird trying to escape a room? I'll tell you, man. The thing that's really shocking is the military. You see the military is all for Trump and you're like, dude, he's gonna fuck you. He's gonna cut that budget. He's gonna do all kinds of crazy shit. You think he's not gonna fucking, he is gonna fist the VA so hard you're gonna be shitting blood for the rest of your life.

The VA is already getting taken And everything's gonna lose something. And we're losing these things. I think there needs to be a person who comes out. So there's gotta be somebody, and I hope it's soon. There is a story. I know how I would finish a sentence, but I'm not allowed to on air. Our next presidential candidate,

I hope emerges within the next few months. And everybody recognizes it. Everybody sees it for what it is. Everybody looks and says, nope, that's who the person is. That's the next presidential candidate. And in my opinion, you got to do what Trump did, which is go start rallies right now. You should start doing rallies right now. You should start raising money for your presidential campaign and you should start doing big rallies everywhere right now. You should start raising money for your presidential campaign and you should start doing big rallies everywhere right now. And I'll tell you what, how easy would it

be to get these maligned, thrown away workers in government, these people who didn't think the immigration was going to come for them. The people who own businesses that are now suffering because of the choices that he's making with Canada and Mexico, all those people, he's hurting a bunch of people. We said, this is the third show in a row, I'm going to mention it. This is the third time I'm going to mention it. All the hurt people need to get together and get rid of this terrible governance that we've somehow thought was the right way to do it. We're gonna find out over the next four years how bad it is.

We're already finding out how bad it is and we're a month in. It's gonna get so much worse than this. We need to collect all those people together and there needs to be somebody right away to do that work. Somebody's gotta do it right away. And I'm willing to support somebody who comes along, who has the sort of welfare

and the good of the people in their sites. So somebody's coming in and saying, we're going to change the way minimum wage works. We're going to change the way healthcare works. We're going to do universal pre-K. We're going to do all the things that help the people on the lowest level of this society get up. We're going to ride, we're going to lift all boats and it's going to start low.

It's going to start as low as we can go. Helps the homeless helps the, you know, whatever it is. I want to see somebody who really is a person for the people come in. I want to see the same exact thing. And then I don't think they should campaign on it because it won't take because America's too stupid. But like, they also need to roll back executive power. Yes. Forever. Yes.

Because what I'm really, really afraid of is that as this goes on, as he continues to test the fences all the time, right? What we're really doing is we're rewriting the playbook. We're rewriting the rules. We're expanding the power of the presidency in ways that don't ever get scaled back unless we consciously scale them back through legislation.

Yeah, you gotta get somebody in there who's willing to sign those things too. They gotta be willing to get rid of that stuff. Yep, I think Pritzker would do it. I actually really think Pritzker could be a viable candidate. I think you gotta get somebody in there who's willing to do that work and get that stuff down

and then also start working on legislation or changing some way to do Citizens United, limit campaign funding, whatever they can do to change the face of our politics in this country. Skin flint, a petty tyrant and a hypocrite to boot. New York Times, thousands gather on President's Day to call Trump a tyrant. Protesters opposing broad swaths

of President Trump's agenda took the streets across the country, including outside the US Capitol. I have never heard of a protest on President's Day before. Did you feel, well, you don't, so you work for the podcast, so I don't even know if like Presidents Day was a thing for you, but. Not really, no.

It's a holiday for us. In my industry, it's a holiday. It's one of the days that we get off of work, of like our day jobs. We worked that day. What's that? Podcasts Work That Day. We recorded that night.

We worked that day. Yeah, and I am, well, yeah. Podcasts Work That Day, buddy. My job job was shut down, so I just did my other job. But like, it's weird this year. I've never thought about President's Day. It was always just like, yeah, it's President's Day.

Like, the banks are closed. So like, I got, you know, thankfully I don't gotta work. I felt fucking weird. I felt bad. I didn't like it. It was President's Day. I was like, fuck this. Like, I don't want President's Day.

God, you feel like those racists on Juneteenth. Ha ha ha ha ha! Like, I'm staying home, I ain't, fuck this. Like I don't want presidents. God, you feel like those racists on Juneteenth. Like, I'm staying home. I ain't going to work, but I still don't like the black people. I ain't gonna like it any bit. Tell you that right now. Yeah. A lot of people were saying that, you know, you weren't seeing this anywhere.

What I kept reading was people were saying, all these protests are happening and nobody's talking about it. And I'm like, yeah, there are people talking about the New York. This is on the New York Times. I mean, this isn't like nobody. They were, I saw, I saw news stories about it. There was plenty of protests going on. I say to people, if this, if you are moved to go protest, if you think you're moved to

go protest, do it, go do it, go out there and do it. I know it's cold now. Some people can't do it because their health won't let them. Other people can't do it because they can't get off work and you gotta feed yourself. I get it. There's no general strike.

So you're just gonna have to go feed yourself. So you gotta go do it. If you have an opportunity, all the best. Like I think like that's, this is a great thing to keep showing over and over and over again, that people aren't happy. And I think the more you show this,

the people that have been wronged will come over and stand with you in solidarity. I hope so, man, because we're wronging a lot of people. You're wronging a lot of people and he's not stopping. Yeah. It's not that the bus is, the fucking train's on the tracks, baby. So it's not gonna stop wronging people.

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This is from the Hill. Trump says Zelensky should have never started the war with Russia. This is the international political fucking version of she shouldn't have worn that. Really is. It really is. It really is. Yeah. This is also a lesson in like the gaslighting of America and the gaslighting of the whole world. We're doing this crazy thing. I was trying to explain this to Haley because she was not following the news. And I'm like, we are turning toward, we're turning away from Europe and we are allying ourselves with Russia.

And it's insane to me that the Republicans who for a huge part of my adult life revered, revered Ronald Reagan as this like pinnacle of their movement, of the right movement, of the conservative movement. Like Ronald Reagan oversaw the Cold War, the height, the fucking tail end, I should say, of the Cold War, where people were worried about being annihilated in their homes and in their schools and in their places of business. But like, and somehow we're allies now with Russia. We're enemies of Ukraine. It's fucking up is down, man.

Well, that people have pointed this out to us before that Russia after the fall, like USSR's fall, turned not only full of oligarchs, but also they also turned into an anti-gay sort of Christian place, right? And so these people in our country saw kinship in Russia and they're just different than the USSR now. They're just, I mean, they're just, they're exactly the same thing. There's oligarchs and they don't like gay people. And you're like, okay, well, it's pretty much our country. Like that's, I mean, pretty much straight up.

And so I do see the connection in that, but I also recognize too, like you're right about the gaslighting. I do another show with Michael Marshall, the No Rogogan experience, and we're listening to Joe Rogan and three or four times we've heard him talk. He's talking about how it was known that Russia sort of drew a red line and said, if you guys start talking about, you know, NATO, then we're gonna, you know, we're gonna invade you.

Like you can't talk about Ukraine going in and joining NATO. And our country, supposedly according to Joe, sent like provocateurs over to overthrow the person who was in charge before. And this was before they took Crimea, right? So it's like before that. Before 2014.

Before 2014. Before 2014. There was another party that was in there that was pro Russia and they got overthrown by popular support. Basically they've got ousted. And then a new party came in and said, okay, we're not gonna, you know, we're gonna think about maybe joining NATO.

And that's when everything started going to shit. But they're blaming it on the United States. And Joe and his guests buy this completely. They buy that it's our fault, that we're the ones who got them in this problem. And what I also see them say is like, well, yeah, of course Russia's threatened, why wouldn't they do that?

And I'm like, wait a minute, this is a sovereign nation making its own decisions. If you want a sovereign nation to do something, there's a lot of other options other than just invading them to get them to do it, right? If you're Russia and you think, I don't want NATO so close to my border, there's a lot of ways to woo Ukraine into becoming your very close ally

or to sanction them or do some other things that are not direct war. They went direct war. That's not something that you would expect on the world stage, but that's what they decided to do. But somehow Joe's audience is blaming us and Ukraine for all this. And they let Russia, because he just has a bunch of Russia talking points. People come in and they just say things to him and he just accepts it as fact without

hearing any anything else. And this is a perfect gaslighting of America. You know, you get the younger people listening to Rogan. He's gaslighting them about how all this started. And now Donald Trump is doing the same thing. You're just a pawn that Joe sacrificed in the endgame, which means that you're useless to us. This story is from Common Dreams. Dems reportedly angry that progressives

are pushing them to act like an opposition party. I thought this was almost an opposition party. I thought this was almost an onion article. I know, right? Doesn't it feel like it is? But you have these people who are, like we were talking about before, this group of very solidly decades-long careers that are still thinking that politics works the same way that it did. Yeah. And they're stuck in their ways, and they're in this place, like Schumer and other people, who don't want to, like, do things, I think, that would disrupt. They don't want to do anything like that.

Well, we're not at a place now where you can play nice. No. And if they're not playing nice, they need to step aside. Get rid of them. Don't have them be the speakers, or the, like, lesser party speaker or whatever it is. You know, I don't want them as part of that group and I want them to leave Congress. I want them to leave. I want them out. I want all those people out. I don't want them to be part of this again. We talked about Nancy possibly getting somebody who's gonna run against her.

I want to see somebody run against everybody that capitulated. I want to see someone run against them. Oh dude. I want to see I want to see that capitulated. I wanna see someone run against them. Oh dude, a thousand percent. I wanna see that a hundred percent because I think like, what we need to have right now is power. Anything that does any kind of powerful anything movement, you need to have that on your side because anything that's weak is just gonna push,

it's gonna push away your own side and it's gonna repel the other side. You're not doing anything You're essentially just hemorrhaging people from ever Supporting you ever again if you capitulate. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're also playing a game. The other team isn't playing They're not playing this game anymore So it's it's fucking like all these like these guys who have been in the in the business for such a long time And they think the game works one way, the other guys are playing a different game now, man.

Like you think you're feeding the dolphins, you're feeding the sharks, they're gonna bite your fucking arm off, you dumb ass. These guys all have to go. They don't have the balls to do the work that needs to be done. We need to get people that have the guts to actually show up to work and to be a thorn in the side

of the autocrats and the oligarchs and the would-be dictators. And anybody who's not willing to lose their job for that work, who's not willing to lose their reputation for that work, who's not willing to like put their ass on the line, can go fuck themselves. Like either the work is existentially important to do, or you should not show the fuck up to work.

Ooh, what does this button do? do or you should not show the fuck up to work. The story is from AP. Tens of millions of dead people aren't getting social security checks despite Trump and Musk claims. This has to do with the program that they're using. So they're using a program called COBOL. And if it doesn't know your birthdate, it just sort of defaults a date from a long time ago because that's how the system, like the code language works.

And these guys are all like, well, look at what it says. It says that all these people are getting all this extra money and all this stuff. And it doesn't say that at all. Like the actual, the actual, um, data says that many of those people aren't paid anyway, and then the ones that they are, that might just be missing the actual date that they were, that they were born. And so that's the only thing that it is. But no, these guys, I mean, this is a guy who is supposed to be a programmer, right?

That's what Elon Musk is. He comes in and he doesn't understand how this particular programming language even works, who is cutting things, doesn't know what it does. This is like a guy. I mean, this is like hiring just some random guy to rewire the electricity in your car. Yeah, man. Just going to pull out stuff and be like, I don't know. Wires or wires?

Wires or wires. It's still running, right? Just cram all the wires against each other and hope for the best. That's what's happening. This is a horror. And, you know, again, there's part of me that recognizes this is going to blow up in their face really badly if they start fucking with a couple of things. Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security payments. Social Security payments, dude, if you start fucking with that,

that's a huge group of voters. That's an enormous group of voters. And those are people who show up at the polls. If you fuck with those people, I mean, the easiest win ever for the next group would be, yeah, we're just gonna go back to the way we were with Social Security. That's the easiest win ever

if they start fucking with it tremendously. And also Social Security has, like in terms of payments, has an error rate that's less than 1%. Yeah. Like everything that anybody does, any system anybody creates is going to have an error rate. And obviously we want to get that error rate as low as possible because it does cost money. But your error rate's like under one percent.

That's a there's no fruit there. Like if you're if you're rooting out, if you're trying to try to find some government waste and government corruption, government spending and all that, like you're not finding it at the get these guys have already they're fucking. They've been auditing their own shit for fucking years. They have an error rate of like less than one percent. You didn't find what you said. The problem is that they are tweeting out

just straight up lies. The fat cat fascists in Washington are betraying their own people. This from the New York Times. Doge claimed it saved $8 billion in one contract. It was actually $8 million. And it might not even been 8 million. If you read this article, they're like, that's being very generous that it's 8 million. Right. Yeah. So like they made an order of magnitude

error. No, more than that. They made an error that's with three, four orders of magnitude off to get from a million to a billion. It's like a whole set of commas. It's like your whole do the whole commas. Because one order of magnitude would be 80 million, two orders of magnitude would be 800 million, three orders of magnitude. For real, what a fuck up that is. What a fuck up. What they won't do is say like, oopsie.

Because it's a big deal. Like they put a thing out like, oh, we've already found like 50 billion dollars in savings or something. And it's like, that's counting the $8 billion that's not $8 billion. And that's counting a bunch of other dumb shit that's poorly counted. What they're doing is cutting services and firing people. Sure, are you going to get money from that?

Yeah, absolutely. Are we also going to get shittier services because of that? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, here's something else. They're cutting all these people out of the IRS. They do that on purpose so that like the fucking tax cheats don't have to pay their taxes. That's why they're doing it, man. Biden hired under the Biden administration, they hired a whole bunch of people in the

IRS specifically to go after and collect money from the fucking rich people that have to pay the taxes and then just don't actually fucking pay their taxes. People like you and I, we get our taxes typically just taken out of our paychecks. We're W-2 earners. And then we file our taxes and oftentimes the government has had more of our money and then they get to borrow that tax free until tax day and then we get it back. Or sometimes we pay like some nominal sum afterwards.

That's often how it's done as W-2 workers. That's usually the case, right? But most of the money that people owe, people like that, we're not getting fucking audited. They're not showing up and auditing people like us. They're showing up and they should be auditing top earners. Complex taxes, more room for collection, more room for people to cheat on their taxes.

Biden administration hired a bunch of people, they're all fucking fired. They fired them all. They fired them all. So these guys are gonna cheat on their taxes. It's literally tax season right now. Yeah. They're firing all those people.

Why not cheat on your fucking taxes? I feel like at this point, like should we even file them? Yeah, I know, man. You know, like if they're like, oh, there's nobody there, will they know?? Well, they don't even know Cecil. They won't Yeah, they're not and it like that's the thing like there's no there now They're gonna be fucking overworked and overwhelmed and they're just gonna perform minimum services and they're not gonna have any fucking time for any the rest of it. You're a pure soul. But you didn't say God bless you when I sneaked. Loki?

You're getting off light. Loki! I know, I'm coming. You're so lucky. Okay, I gotta put this on the screen. Dude, dude, what the shit What the shit dude? It reminds me. It reminds me of something from that's like biblical. I don't know why This is from Snopes goat covered in $100 Trump bills is on display at Mar-a-Lago

Guys here's it's a fucking goat statue Guys, it's a fucking goat statue covered in fucking Trump monopoly money. Everything about this guy is so fucking tacky. Dude, I know. It's just so tacky. I know. I really wanted the villains that destroyed the world to be better, like have better taste. Why does this have a true stamp on it? Like why do I live in a world where there's a true stamp on this? I don't get it. I just don't get it. Like, why do I live in a world where there's a true stamp on this?

I don't get it. I just don't get it. And I put it up here very specifically because there was, you know, it has to be whether or not it's debunked or bunked, right? You need to know whether it's bunked or debunked. This one's bunked. But you see it and you think, is it possible that that's real? Is that fake? What is this?

And I'm not clicking on any Twitter links, but is that fake? Is it not? And then you see it, you're like, yeah, no, it's, it's a real thing. And then Snopes is like, yeah, no, some, some crazy person who's really tacky also did a tacky thing and took a goat statue and put, printed out a hundred dollar bills with Trump's face on it and then put it at Mar-a-Lago. I mean, I think, here's what I would say. If I was religious, I think I would be really upset

with this. If I was religious, I think I would be really upset. Oh, because of the golden idol? Because of the idolatry that goes along with it. I think like, you know, obviously no one will be, but I think like if I was religious, this would be a sign to me. If you were religious and I, and I mean this, if you're religious and you are still a Trump supporter, you are a liar. Yeah. I think you're just because like, do you remember the golden statue of Trump? Yeah. Yeah. Like

if you were religious and I mean that like you're and you're a Trump supporter. You're lying Yeah, you don't care. You're not religious. You're bad at your religion. You just bad at it Yeah, you don't care about that. What you are is a nationalist what you are is somebody who likes the fucking potlucks Yeah, that's what you are. Yeah, and that makes you a bad person too Yeah, those potlucks are terrible pucks are the worst. Have you ever had a good potluck dinner? No. No. I can't think of a time I've had a good potluck dinner.

No. I've had the best potluck dinners I've ever had like have been mediocre. Yeah. Like best case scenario. Here's the problem with the potluck dinner. One, you've got to make something that is either going to be good cold or something that can be heated up and stay hot there in a crock pot.

Cause those are your only two options. You can't make anything else. Like I can't be like, Oh, I'm going to make rib eyes. Like that would be impossible. You wouldn't do that. Right. Right. Or I'm going to make, you know, even if it was a flank steak, like let's say I wanted to make like a nice flank steak

and make like a little flank steak station where I made a flank steak station or something where I caught it and you came up and I got you a, still wouldn't be good. It would not be good. So you're in this weird spot where you're like, okay, well, what can I make? Well, most of the time you make a dip or something

in your crock pot or a chili or something. Those aren't bad sometimes. Sometimes they're horrible. Sometimes they're really bad. And that's the problem with a potluck too, is that like everybody participates and some people aren't good at it. So you're just like 50% of the things,

25% of the things I'm gonna eat are bad. They're not good. So you're already rolling the dice. And maybe you made, Tom, maybe you made the best chili there, but I don't trust it because I'm not going to eat your chili because I'm like, oh man, I had bad chili here one other time. I'm not going to do it again.

I'm done. And so I won't eat that. And then the other stuff is just cold and cold stuff is most of the time, not all the time, but cold stuff most of the time is unappetizing. So you know, you were basically hamstrung everybody there into making one or two things or a completely inedible thing because it's not doing either of those things.

What's your most hated potluck staple? I have an answer for me. Most hated potluck staple. You know what it is? What they call in the Midwest barbecue. So they'll do sloppy joes at these things. I don't know if you've ever seen this, like sloppy joes. They call it barbecue out here,

but it's essentially just like grade beef with somebody threw some, you know, just a bucket of sauce in. And then they didn't drain the fat. So it's like got this fucking like sheen of fat on it. And it always tastes really, really bland. It tastes like sweet baby raiser or whatever it is. And you're just like, cool, that doesn't taste like anything.

You're like, that's not an interesting sauce even. It's a boring sauce that you put on that. And then I've got like a bun that's been sitting out and I'm gonna eat it. That's probably my least favorite. I almost always skip it. Almost always skip it. Crockpot barbecue meatballs. That sounds terrible. I'm gonna eat it. That's probably my least favorite. I almost always skip it. Almost always skip it. Crockpot barbecue meatballs.

That sounds terrible. I've never seen them. Man, like I've seen these at so many potlucks and like work potlucks like fucking crazy. Somebody always brings them in. It's fucking crockpot and they've got these little meatballs in there and then it's like barbecue sauce in there.

And then they cook it in the crock pot for like four weeks. Holy shit dude. And it's like it burns on the side and then it like reduces down because they've taken the lid off of it. And then you've got these little like hunks of like dried out dog food ass fucking meatballs. How do they taste, Tom?

They're the worst. I'll eat them. I'll eat them. But. They're so bad. I'll eat them. I'll eat them. But- Hahahaha I knew you were gonna say that. They're so bad. I'll still eat a plate of them. I'll still eat a plate of them.

I'll still eat a whole plate of them. But I'm a little mad about it. Yeah, you're angry about it. I'm a little mad about it. All the time. Yeah, yeah. Hahahaha Oceans rise, empires fall.

It's much harder when it's only your call. All alone, across the sea When your people say they hate you Don't come crawling back to me All right, this story's from The Guardian. 200 UK companies sign up for permanent four-day working week. More than 5,000 workers to benefit from reduced hours with no loss of pay. Man, God save the queen.

Have you ever had a job, I've had two jobs that have flirted with the four day work week. And the way that they've done it is one of two ways. The first job that I had that flirted with the four day work week, just put you to four 10 hour days. Sure. So you just, you still get a 40.

40 hours. Yeah. Still way better than five eight hour days. I gotta be honest, I would take that too. I took it in a second. I would take that too because you could be like, yeah, I get in at eight in the morning and I don't leave till six.

But I wasn't gonna do much on those days anyway. Right. So. Yeah, it's a 100% took it. It's actually funny. The, the, the first job I had that did it was a, the title company I worked at before this one. And like they, they want to move all of their employees

to four day work week. And I was the manager and I said, well, what's my day off? And my boss was like, well, no, it's, it's for the employees, not for you. And I was like, well, that's not going to work for me. We got to do something like I'm everybody. I can't be the only buddy that's got to work five days. So he do something. Like I'm, if everybody, I can't be the only buddy that's gotta work five days.

So he's like, all right, and then we fought a little bit about it. And he gave me like Wednesday or something. And I fucking loved it. It only lasted like three months. And then he realized it was untenable because he didn't manage it properly. But like, it was fucking great.

You work two days, you get a day off, it's in the middle of the week. I would fucking kill for a Wednesday. It was great, man. If I could have every Wednesday off. I loved it. And then you just like, you work two days, you go back and you're like, okay, I'm off a full day.

Work two days, off two days, work two days, off a day. Wednesday is the best day of the week to take off. It was fucking great. I know everybody wants like Monday, Friday, get the three day weekend. I never cared about those. I fucking loved it. Like I said, he mismanaged it,

so it only lasted like two months and everything fell apart. Wednesday is an amazing day to take off work. And then the other time that I've seen it is at my current company. We've done it to save money. So you go to a four day work week, but then you cut people's hours. And that's a way to save on payroll. So now they're doing 30, what is 32? Now 32. You've knocked people from 40 to 32. Just a four day work week? Just 32 hours and you're

still full time? That's amazing. That's a fucking gift. It's amazing. It's amazing. I wish, I wish, you know, we live in a time where, you know, hopefully there's a possibility that some places in the world will start doing this. Maybe eventually America will catch on. We always, we work more than most people anyway in the world, but it would be amazing to see more people having a four day work week. You know, like when I saw us starting to work from home, I thought that there was maybe a change. Yeah, I thought so too, but it doesn't look like it's trying to reverse all that. So actually, it's some NBC news.

We're sure Massachusetts becomes a sanctuary city for trans people after council. That's kind of amazing. Actually, this is beautiful. I love this. I saw this. This is great. There's a, there's a whole video here and it's just wonderful. It's like, you know, this is what the world needs more.

The world needs more people just being like, yeah, no, we're going to, we're going to, this is where you come. This is where, like I was saying, man, I've been saying it for weeks. I'm going to keep saying it like, just like, let's collect all the people they hate and let's be one big group of that and I love this. I'm like, yeah, man, that's what we need. We need a bunch of these places popping up there like, yeah, this is a sanctuary for everybody that they dislike.

Yeah, I love the idea of having places in the country where we're just like, we still know what the right thing to do is. Yeah, we're still gonna do it every time. Yeah, you know what? Whatever face we get. Hey, over here? Yeah. We do is. Yeah, we're still gonna do it every time. Yeah, you know what? Hey, over here, we still do the right thing. We're gonna do it every time. Yeah, we're not fucking lunatics.

Tell your parents that President Orlean and Ishael are sociopaths and fascists. Real interesting story from the Atlantic, how COVID pushed a generation of young people to the right. Lots of stuff in this. One thing that I seized on, I wanted to talk a little bit about Cecil that I hadn't really thought about.

But during the pandemic, more and more people began to socialize, of course, online. So they can't socialize on social media. And one of the things I hadn't really considered is that on social media, those are really gender separated spaces. I didn't realize that either when I heard this, I was like, you know what? They kind of are in a lot of ways. There's a lot of gender separated spaces. I didn't realize that either when I heard this, I was like, you know what?

They kind of are in a lot of ways. There's a lot of gendered spaces online. And those gendered spaces isolated men and women. And then when you have a play, you have now a far right leaning young male base that feels in many ways pushed in that position because of COVID and other things and unhappy because of it. And then they want change and the change they see is the change on the right.

Yeah. It really began, well, it didn't begin, but it like, it worked to deepen the radicalization of young men against feminism. There's a lot of men who've been erroneously taught that feminism is not compatible with their own sense of self and masculinity. They've been taught that feminism, again, erroneously, means the supremacy of women over men.

They've been taught a lot of bad shit about feminism. So because they've gotten their ideas from a bunch of people who have weaponized those ideas in order to sell shit and radicalize those people and then to sell them more shit. And it's really been a tragic reworking of American culture as a result. And now Trump in the last election,

like Trump basically erased all of the golf between Democrats and Republicans that young people had always expressed. So young voters had always expressed a huge leaning toward the left. And after the pandemic, a lot of that's been erased. Yeah, it's been gutted. And I think they, you know, these male influencers

did a thing which a lot of people do, which is create a, you know, an enemy and then point their group at them and say that that enemy is coming for you and that enemy is trying to suppress you and that enemy is trying to suppress you, that enemy is trying to all press you, and you're safe with me and I'm going to help you fight them. And they chose feminism as that thing. It's so funny because you think like any guy who's secure in their own masculinity isn't threatened by feminism. Like any person who's really secure in their own masculinity

should be, there's nothing there that's threatening. The only thing that's there is there's a chance to learn from someone else. That's really it because like, that old saying that you, if you're privileged, any kind of equality feels like oppression is exactly this. And that's what they seized on. They made all those young men think,

this equality that you're feeling now, any bit of it, and it wasn't even like a true equality, but anytime there was any kind of sense that there was an equality, they made sure to point to it as oppression. And people believed them. They believed them. And they played on that feeling that all these young men were having to point to it as oppression and people believed them. They believed them. And they played on that feeling that all these young men were having from this place of privilege that they had before.

And it created a whole group of people now that are probably going to vote right for a long time. A long time. Yeah. They suspect they're not going to be somebody who's going to snap back. Yeah. Well, and one of the things that they point out, and I think rightfully so, is that people in their teens and 20s begin to solidify a lot of their views

that they'll then hold for the rest of their lives. One of the things we were talking about on the Dad Show the other day, and it's something I think is appropriate here, and it's something that's on my mind a lot, is I do think that we hit a moment socially where I think like me too really helped to kind of like drive some of this, where we began to have really important conversations

about violence against women, about the predatory nature of certain power dynamics, about really important elements of like how the patriarchy affects all of us. And I think one of the things that got lost in there, and I don't know how to fix it, but I just think about it a lot, is that I think that we've kind of built a narrative

that a lot of men are really upset about, where the view of masculinity revolves around who not to be. Yeah. And there's not a whole lot of messaging about who to be. And that's not an effective message. That's a bad message because it's ineffective. It's not a bad message because those are unimportant conversations.

Ironically, those are deeply important, like life-savingly important conversations to have. But those are also messages that like, if all the messages for that young men hear, in their minds at least, if all that they're sort of taking in in their minds and absorbing is, don't be this, don't do that.

And then we don't have any good messaging from our side that says, be this, do that. It leaves a vacuum. And we always, I think good intentionally, like thought, well, like that's because we want people to invent their own masculinity. We don't want it to be constrained by these sort of like, you know, traditional social forces.

The problem is that the right saw that as an opportunity to fill it with the Tates and to fill it with like the Jordan Petersons and to fill it with, when you leave a vacuum it with like the Jordan Petersons and to fill it with, when you leave a vacuum, you leave a big hole for grifters. You leave a big hole, especially in young minds. And I think like it's a real problem in our messaging around masculinity and femininity

that we've framed the conversation about masculinity in terms of who not to be, rather than positive messages about who to be. And I don't know what the solution is, it just feels urgent to me. You know, I'm drawing a connection in my head, maybe there's not a connection, but I'm drawing a connection in my head about women

in say the 50s through to like, you know, the 90s. It was probably maybe to the 80s. I'm not sure. Women could probably tell me better. But there was this idea that like, if you're a woman, there's a career for you in teaching. There's a career for you in nursing. There's a career for you in daycare. But that's kind of it.

There's really not a lot of other places that you can go. And so they didn't have representation in their head about how they could be something else, right? We came very close to having twice, I think a woman being president, right? The highest thing in the land for you to look at and say, oh, okay, you know, one day I might be president or whatever. Definitely we had a vice president, right?

One day I might be vice president.. Definitely we had a vice president, right? One day I might be vice president. And women fill all kinds of roles today that they traditionally, if you look back in time, did not have any opportunity to do. And I wonder too, like, it's just seeing guys being able to cope and do the right things like you're suggesting that could help fill those gaps. Because all you have to do is just get out there

and make sure that there's enough dudes doing this stuff to say, it's okay, guys, we're not threatened by this sort of, by feminism. Feminism doesn't threaten us. It's okay, we can live in the same world where that exists and we can all thrive together and we can understand each other at a where that exists and we can all thrive together and we can understand each other at a level

we never understood each other before. Right. If there's somebody out there modeling that behavior, that's a good thing. But instead what you're seeing, like you suggest, is like, you know, Adrian, what is it? Andrew, what is Peter's, what is that guy's name? No, it's Jordan Peterson.

Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate and to a lesser extent, Joe Rogan. Like I'm listening to Joe Rogan now. When Joe Rogan's, you know, Joe Rogan does have a lot of things that you should do, right? It's like talking about how you should be doing hard things, you know, like how you should like workouts should be hard. You're, you know, you, you're, you should, you should be reliant on yourself. Like, those are messages that are like, they're not completely obvious, but they're undertones of his show.

And I think those guys all seized on that sort of thing. We talked about loneliness this last time, but also solitude. In a lot of ways, Joe Rogan is singing the same things on his show every week. So, yeah, I think that there just needs to be somebody who's just able to show that. I think there have been. I don't think that it's bereft. I think there are people who are doing it. But I just think that for some reason, I think what sells better isn't this is what are you

worried about instead? You should be worried sells way better. Yeah, I agree. I think the part of the problem is the narrative of you are a victim and here is the aggressor. Everybody takes to that message and like saying like, hey, here are some heroes you can have that exude a kind of masculinity

that is not threatened by femininity. There's no easy binary aggressor victim. Like it doesn't work in the same way. It's just harder to spin for people. So the messaging has been neater and slicker and easier. The answers have been more ready and available on the other end. It's a more complicated answer on our side.

And think about how they treat women, even when they're talking about how they want to be with women. They treat them adversarially, right? Like think about how they treat, like if they're talking about like that pickup sort of idea, you know, that more plates and dates or whatever stuff, you know, like that stuff is all about

women are an adversary that you need to conquer. That's not about like find somebody that is compatible with you and like learn to live with that person and love that person and enjoy life with that. That's not that at all. That's not part of it at all.

It's all about being adversarial and they sold all that stuff. Yeah, they sold, it's the adversarial mentality and it's also the acquisitional mentality. Yeah. Yeah. Conquering. Yeah. All right. Well, that's going to wrap it up for this week. We're going to have a patron show for you on Thursday so all you patrons can join in and hang out with us. But for the rest of you, we're going to leave you like we always do with the Skeptics Creed and see on Monday. Credulity is not a virtue.

It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician double bubble toil and trouble pseudo quasi alternative acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram pyramidal, free energy healing, water downward spiral, brain dead pan, sales pitch, late night info docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls, bigfoot, yeti, aliens, churches, mosques, and synagogues, temples, dragons, giant worms, atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches,

wizards, she says you're nuts. I catch you red handed and you stand there with your dingle blowing in the breeze and a naked broad in my cabana and you sermonize with me. Isn't that great? Shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, doublespeak, stigmata, nonsense. you Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, consider supporting us on Patreon at patreon.com forward slash dissonance pod. Help us spread the word by sharing our content.

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