Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 878: Dick Cheney, Shutdown

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

2025 General Election: Races to Watch in New York, Virginia, New Jersey and California White House is working on executive order on elections, press secretary says | Reuters Why the Hell Did JD Vance and Erika Kirk Hug Like That? | The New Republic Trump says government shutdown ends when Democrats give in: "If they don't vote, that's their problem" - CBS News Trump on Binance cryptocurrency tycoon he pardoned: "I don't know who he is" - CBS News USDA tells grocery stores: No special discounts for SNAP recipients Trump throws 'Gatsby'-themed gala as SNAP benefits expire How Cheney's Presidential Power Push Paved the Way for Trump to Go Further - The New York Times

Today's show is brought to you by Adam and Eve.com. Go to Adam and Eve.com right now and you'll get 50% off just about any item. All you have to do is enter the code word glory, G-L-O-R-Y at checkout. Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. From Glory Hole Studios in Chicago and beyond. This is Cognitive Dismance. Every episode would be blast anyone who gets in our way.

We bring critical thinking, skepticism and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big or makes us mad. It's skeptical. It's political. And there is no welcome at. Today is Wednesday, November the 5th. And I would like to tell you that we're recording on Wednesday because we were so excited to see the election results. But it's really just how our schedules lined up.

It is. And we also wanted to make sure that we played the coffin guys, quickly as we could after Cheney. Oh, delicious. So right now, if you're watching this, let me ambiginate it so everybody can see it. Everybody, if you're watching, we have, I'm not playing the music because Ian gets mad at me

when I play the music, but we'll probably get demonetized anyway, but the coffin guys are on, they are on the... Love those fucking coffin guys. Just imagine the music as Dick Cheney's coffin rolls itself into the fucking ground, and even the ground is sad.

it has to take jick chaining you know i was thinking about this i sent you a text message and i and i want to retract my text message on the air so i sent you a text message saying like hey things have gotten so bad that this doesn't really resonate or hit for me and then i thought a little bit more and i there's a couple of things i think are really worth talking about for dick cheney and the first is let's make sure that we do not allow the retroactive whitewashing or rehabilitation of his history and his legacy. Bang on. Just because that motherfucker

opposed Trump publicly and so did his daughter. Absolutely, Tom. Fuck that guy. And I want to say, too, very importantly, he made Trump and he was sorry about it. Yeah.

He made Trump. The Unitary executive theory, that's all, like Dick Cheney, fuck that couch three ways from Sunday, man. He was the first JD Vance. He was in the fucking White House. Fucking that couch, And he fucking, you know what he did?

He gave us all the unitary executive theory under the dumbest person next to Trump to have that office. The stupidest person to ever walk in next to Trump, obviously, because Trump is genuinely the stupidest. But this person is George Bush is the stupidest person. And he was like, you know who needs more power? Fucking the dumbest person who ever sat in this chair before him. Yeah, man. I would contend that W was dumber than Trump. Trump at least is cagey.

So there's a certain sort of animalistic kind of like intuitive intelligence that Trump has. I'll allow it. W was just a useful idiot. That's all that fucking guy ever was. He was a useful idiot. Dick Cheney was absolutely the architect and master and puppeteer during the entirety of the eight years of the W administration. The W administration, to your point, owned entirely and run entirely by Dick Cheney,

committed straight up war crimes. Like, no, like, we cannot, we cannot say, like, here's the thing, like, as angry and rightfully so, as angry and furious as anybody is over the atrocities that occurred and are occurring in Gaza, the shit we did in Iraq dwarfs that. Just by the numbers. It dwarfs that.

It's not even close, actually. It's more than two times the number of civilians who were unjustly murdered by the, and not by American military sort of like support, but by the actual military doing the murdering, doing the killing. And there was no justification whatsoever, none. There wasn't even an October event that was like a spurious sort of. of like a galvanizing catalyst. There was literally nothing.

There was nothing. There was just the unjustified and unprovoked murder of over 100,000 or 120 or 150,000 civilians, not even counting like the soldiers who would never have been put in harm's way if we didn't create a war out of thin air for them to be forced to fight us against. Otherwise, they would be killed. We have to count them as. casualties too. And then also you have to count the shit you left in a power vacuum that they went on to go like ISIS and all the other stuff that came out of that, all the radicalization that came out of that,

all the deaths that followed that because of the radicalization. Like, it's a fucking giant domino. It's not just 100,000 people. The 100,000 people fell into more people, man. Yes, yes, yes. All of those atrocities. Every single one of them is not like, oh, if you look hard enough and squint, you can kind of see the chain of events. No, it's like one to one. It's a this than that. It's literally the ordering of those hostilities to occur, lied, directly lied. It's not like he got intelligence and it was bad intelligence. He knew the intelligence didn't exist and ordered his defense secretary, Colin Powell, to lie to the fucking UN and to the American people about it. This is, these are just straight up facts. This is not conspiratorial. This is not. This is straight up facts. And like the other

really important part. The thing that we have to make sure that we never do is forget who Dick Cheney was. Dick Cheney is the guy, the extraordinary rendition, that's Dick Cheney. The torturing of people. Dick Cheney signed a waterboarding kit. He autographed a waterboarding kit. Autographed it. He was proud of extraordinary rendition. He was proud of enhanced interrogation, which is just a different way to say torture, straight up torture. These are things that up until that administration, we had sort of all agreed, hey, we are not the kind of country that disappears people. That's what, that's what, and now. That sounds hilarious when you say that right now. Right. Yeah. But your initial point is exactly it. Like, in, in so many ways,

in structural ways, but also in ideological ways, Dick Cheney, the person, is the guy who set the stage and created the conditions that were absolutely necessary. Trump could not be. He could not exist without the preconditions that Cheney worked, his entire political career to foster and to create and to push forward. And now that he's dead, we cannot let that go. Like, same thing with W. Like, I don't give a shit that he's like a senile old fuck with a smile on his face,

painting pastoral scenes in his, you know, off time. And we're all like, oh, I want the nostalgic days. of W. W was a fucking war criminal. That's who he was. That's who he should always be right.

That's his legacy. The best thing Dick Cheney ever did was shoot his own friend in the face with a shotgun. That is the high point of who he was as a person. Also, I don't know if you heard this,

but after he died in his will, he ordered that guy to be shot in the face and buried with him. So it's like a whole thing. It's a whole thing Dick Cheney did. Maybe like the most insanely surreal moment of that was when that guy,

apologized for his face being in the way. I'm so sorry. I thought I was wearing a fucking hand chicken on my face. And I got shot. I'm so sorry. I was drawing the hand turkey. I had the hand turkey right here. You shot it right there.

I'm so sorry. This is my bad. My bad. That's so Midwestern to get shot and be like, I'm so sorry. So sorry. Oh, well, you just slap your knees. You're like, well, that one's on me. That is.

Amazing. Oh, my God. amazing. You know, Dick Cheney is like is like Oppenheimer with less conscience, right? Yeah, man. He's like, he created an absolute monster in, uh, in, and he, and, and the thing is is that he fucking knew it. He knew it because look at how he

came out. He'd have to come out against Trump at the end of his life. Nobody fucking remembered who he was, right? Like, he had to roll it out at the end of his life to come like, oh man, hey, uh, just want to let you know Dick Cheney's are Trump's really bad. And you're like, dude, you could just be quiet. Nobody gives a fuck because Democrats don't fucking want to hear from you. And the Republicans hate you. They're going to call you a rhino after you're dead.

So who the fuck cares? Literally, you can't do anything except for you already gave him all the power. Right? You already created this monster. You're the fucking asshole who had fucking George W. Bush on a big fucking chair and you rolled them up into the lightning so you could have your fucking Tesla coils shoot him. And you created this monster, right? You're the one who helped create.

this stuff. And the thing that fucking makes me crazy is, look, you got, you have to know, you have to know when you are doing this, that you are doing something that is going to make America worse. You know you're going to do it because there is way more chance, way more chance. When you take power away from Congress and a multitude of people, there is way more chance to be corrupt if it is a single use of that power. If there's only one person, who is in charge, there is way, it's way easier to corrupt the system. It's way easier to throw everything off balance. It's way easier to make somebody who basically just turns themselves into a king through

executive order and now can't be, there's nothing that can happen to him after the fact, right? We've given him everything he's ever wanted and everything he could ever achieve. And it was all based on a not insubstantial boulder. that fucking Dick Cheney rolled down the hill. He's the one he started it. Now, did it get momentum? Did it get a little more fucking, did it get a little more fucking, did it? Cotamari itself and get a little bigger as it worked as?

Yeah, it did. But you know what? That was a big fucking boulder he rolled down that hill. Yeah, didn't. Fuck him forever. Yeah, man. And keep burying him until he fucking disappears into the mantel. Fuck that guy.

Like, like, your analogy is the perfect analogy. He is the Dr. Frankenstein. Yeah. Right? And like in that story, Dr. Frankenstein very much comes to regret his actions. And that does not uncreate the monster. Nope. Right?

It does not uncreate the monster. You cannot. That's the problem here. And like one thing that like these Republican fuckwits who want to push power to the top don't seem to understand is that there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator. That is a contradiction in terms. Yep. You cannot create a benevolent dictatorship. no matter how gentle or wise or whatever you think your benevolent dictator is,

the creation of that power structure is by necessity and by definition a net bad thing. It is the destruction of democracy. It is the removal of power from the people. It is the removal of a checks and balances system, which is designed intelligently, I think, in order to keep dictatorships to a minimum, in order to make sure that like shitty people don't rise to an extreme level of power. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictatorship. It dictatorship cannot be benevolent.

It doesn't matter who's in control. So any action toward that is an evil action. By definition. The USA are rouge. The sunsleigh isle-new-N-York has been Zoran Zedong. He's for the bonner of the people. He is the grand starvesing the people.

The president Zoran-hame-le-le-le-le-le-le-puple. He is our guide for create an America Newvel He knows He knows the voice of the future Zoran Zedong

is like the suning His clad apart all the light Speaking of Benevolent Dictators though

Tom What about Mimdani winning Come on This is amazing This is great Look man The Democrats

and the Democratic Socialists had a baller fucking night on Tuesday I will say this You know

I don't want to give people's hopes up for a much more progressive rest of the country based on what New York does. But what I will say is that you got an opportunity to see what happens in a blue state

when a very progressive person goes up against a corporate traditional Democrat in a situation now where people are really feeling a crunch for both their freedoms and their wallet from Trump. So you're getting an opportunity to see what happens in real time.

And I'm going to say, you know, while obviously New York City is blue, while obviously New York State is blue, it's not 100 fucking percent blue. And I also want to say to people who will say something like, well, Cuomo did get a lot of votes in comparison. You know, maybe it shows that centrist Democrats and other places in the country might be, might have a better chance. I disagree with that because I think that guy's fucking numbers were absolutely booed. by a ton of Republicans who knew that the fucking beret wearing dude wasn't going to go anywhere. So they fucking threw their vote behind Cuomo who's a lot more like a Republican than he is a Democrat, right?

He's a lot more. And I will say that, let me change that. Because I don't think that's true. He's a lot more like a Republican than he is somebody on the left. Let's just say that. And I think, like, I think it's a great victory there. It's a great victory in Virginia.

It's a great victory in California. And I think we need to, to pay attention to younger people who are running, you need to pay attention to more progressive, more populous stuff that's happening. Trust me, this I think will resonate. These lessons that people learned in these races will resonate across the country. Get rid of these corporate people. You said it before. They're not going to be on your side. The corporations have abandoned the people because they knew where the power was going to go. Get rid of them. We can't get rid of the money because the citizens united,

but you can get rid of them. And if you look at where the money went, you can see Mandani won not because of the money. He won because of his message. Yeah. And I think there's, you know, I want to, I was thinking about, so from what I have followed between the most important races here

as I'm to understand them from the news, right? So you've got the New Jersey race. You've got the race in Virginia. You've got the race in New York for mayor. You've got, you know, also Supreme Court seats, I believe, in Pennsylvania. Yeah, Pennsylvania. And if I think about... And Prop 50.

Yeah, Prop 50 in California. If I think about the specifics across like Virginia and New Jersey and Mamdani, they're very different candidates. Like the candidates in Virginia were much more like middle of the road kind of candidates. They're a little more centrist, yeah. But what's not different is the messaging. I was thinking about this this morning. The messaging amongst those candidates, as I understand it, was three important things.

It was controlled. It was consistent and it was focused on specifics. and specifics with respect mostly to the economy. I think the Democrats have done a bad job of being those three things over time, right? So what I mean is that their messaging has not been very controlled. They have been all over the map, right? So they're talking about whatever, they're sort of like trying to take the temperature all the time and see which way the wind is blowing and say, okay, well, we'll talk about that now.

And we'll talk about that now. And there's been no control to the messaging. They've also been inconsistent in their messaging, like in terms of like trying to reach in and say, hey, like, I'm going to focus only on a handful of issues, and that's what I'm in a push. And they've not been focusing specifically on economic solutions. It's no good to just say things are bad. I see that too, right? That doesn't mean anything. Like, what did Mamdani come out and say? He said, hey, we're going to do a rent freeze. We're going to have fast free buses. And there was a third thing. I forgot what the third thing was.

But he had three basic pillars. And they were all- Grocery stores. Grocery stores. Hi, everybody. And it's also universal child care. Thank you. Back to the show. They were all the economic pillars and he just came out and they said again and again and again and again, these three things.

The same is true. The Virginia candidate. I was just going to say really quickly, before you go with the Virginia candidate, everybody tried to attack them. And what that allowed him to do was just like really sort of just deflect the simple stuff. And it got them talking about his. points, not their points. Right. Right.

So now everybody's talking about the things he wanted to do. Now what Cuomo wanted to do. They were all talking about the things he wanted to do. He got his shit out there fast. He got that shit out there early and he stayed on message. And everybody was like, well, we've got to talk about what he's going to do. Well, now you know what he's going to do. Think about them.

Think about how they talked about Kamala. They were all like, well, I don't know what she's going to do. I don't know anything about her. And it's because she was constantly fighting against Trump's policies. Yeah. And she did have some, but she kept. on trying to fight against the things he was going to do. Now, she was right about a lot of things.

There should be a hat in fucking 2028. That says Kamala was right about everything and it's fucking blue. Let me tell you, she was right about a lot of things. But it was all that push. So I'm sorry I interrupted you, but go ahead with the Virginia stuff. Yeah, no, but look, you're exactly right. And the Virginia candidate was same way. I forgot what her primary message focus was,

but she really had one primary message that she kept bringing back over and over and over and over and over again. we have to just simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify, be controlled, be consistent, have discipline around your messaging and focus on a specific solution or three that you're pushing forward. And people will respond to that. If you're trying to be all things to all people at once, you're nothing and you're nobody to anybody.

And people don't believe you because they recognize that what you are trying to do is to be sort of like constituently sycophantic. And nobody wants that. And nobody, that doesn't appeal to anybody. But if you're out front like Mumdani and you're saying, look, I got three things and they matter to everybody. And if I do these three things, we'll have a much better New York. And if I come out and I say, hey, we're going to do these three things.

And whatever you want to talk about, I'm going to bring it back to one of these three things is what people care about is where they live and how they move about our city and whether or not they have access to food. Yeah. These are like basics, right? We're at a place, I think, in our country where people are worried about the basics. We are worried about the basics. Let's message into the basics.

Let's make the Republicans own the economy they've created. Make them own it. And bring solutions. Walk in the door with solutions. Walking in front of a fucking table full of groceries and being like, that's expensive. That plays to a bunch of idiots. But that's not going to be what drives Democrats to the polls. It's not.

And it's not going to be what brings the centrist into the polls. We've got to do that work. I think that's really what's, the Democratic. Democrats take a lesson from this. They've got to look and say, man, that consistency, that message discipline, that focus on specific three things, shit, that was effective. Because those numbers in New York aren't fucking close. The Maine also had a voter registration, mail-in ballot, and voter ID law that went. And it was shot down.

Good. So that's not going to happen there. And I think, like, genuinely, I've seen a ton of misinformation. Specifically, I'm, you know, I'm listening to Joe Rogan more so I get an opportunity to hear the immigrant misinformation. And the immigrant misinformation is all about how they, they, it's a conspiracy theory. It's essentially a distilled version of the Great Replacement Theory where they're busing in and letting in through open borders a bunch of, uh, undocumented immigrants and they come in to blue cities where they then vote, where they then use that to vote. And none of that's true because undocumented people can't actually vote in elections.

You have to be very specifically, and especially federal elections. Now, they can in some cases, depending on the jurisdiction and what exactly is being brought up. There's possibilities for certain people to vote. But they have to like be here. And I'm pretty sure it's not undocumented people. I think it's, You know, you have to be a documented immigrant, like someone with a green card or something like that. But in any case, it's like they are pushing these conspiracy theories to scare people. And we're seeing that more and more and more. And I think what this shows me is that there is a obviously going to be a group of people who are never going to leave those conspiracy theories. And you're never going to change their mind.

Like those are people like, it's so hard to get those people to switch. with just telling them that that's not true. What is going to change their mind is when the shutdown lasts for a really long time and they don't have a paycheck or they go to the airport and there's one TSA person and it's like a 40, it's like a four-hour wait

to get in through security checks. And when their lives are changed because they put it in a matter of vacation and now the fucking federal, federal, what do they call those things? Forest Preserve or whatever it is, you know, National Park is closed, et cetera. So they will use those, they'll see those things when they feel and experience these pains that inevitably the government that is currently in there will inflict on them.

So you've got to just, what you've got to do is be the person who alleviates all those pains or at least one or two of those pains and they will be one of the people who, and that's what, that's literally what the Republicans did, right? The pain that people were feeling was in their pocketbook. So they appealed to that pain. They said, look, we are here to, they didn't do anything about it. They literally got in there so they could fucking turn this into a Christian theocry. We're watching it happen before our eyes. Yeah, man. But they lied about it.

But genuinely, that's what they did. And so just be the person with the burn sap and walking around and being like, yeah, man, we're going to alleviate the pain that they're causing you right now. Let me ask you what do you think of this analogy? So as you were talking, something occurred to me. And that is, like, we've talked on this show about how vaccines to a large degree are a victim of their own success. Right? So because smallpox, that's the wrong example.

because like chickenpox or measles is not sort of, or polio is not like rampaging its way through your neighborhood, it's very easy for people to say, well, these really aren't all that dangerous, they're unlikely to happen, I don't have to contend with them. I'm actually more afraid of this vaccine because the vaccine is something I do have to contend with. So I'm wondering if a well-functioning government is not a victim of its own success to some degree as well. Sure. When things run smoothly in government or they run mostly smoothly, we don't really have to confront very much, right? We're not where it is a victim of its own success. Because one thing that occurs to me is everybody fucking hates the government until it shuts down. Right? You'll hear so many people, I've been so fucking annoyed at this messaging for so long, where everybody sort of has this tacit understanding that government is wasteful and bloated and bureaucratically inefficient and, you know, it doesn't work and there's all this. And it's like, and it's like, and it's like, and it's. like, well, yes, at the, at the legislative level, certainly everybody can agree at this point that government is not working. But I think at the bureaucratic level, most of the time it works really fucking well. It works so well, in fact, that it is kind of not something you have to contend

with very often. And it just, you just sort of expect it to work. And then when it shuts down, all of a sudden, you're like, well, what do you mean I can't get on an airplane? Well, well, that actually has all been happening. You didn't, it's like, you know, you. It's like, you know, you. You know, it's like I make Christmas for my kids and it's a lot of work and they don't even know it. Because they just wake up on Christmas morning and all the presents are wrapped and the fucking house is decorated and the cookies are there. And all that stuff just gets done. And it all fires in the background in a way that allows everybody to take it for granted. And when the government shuts down and all of a sudden people are like, well, what do you mean this thing isn't working?

And what do you mean that thing doesn't work for shit? And what do you mean like? And it's like, well, yeah, because all that shit was happening in the background. And you got to take it for granted. And you got to not have, you know, you got to say at fucking Thanksgiving, oh, government is so wasteful. And you don't know how it works. Because I'll tell you what, like the people that I know that have worked in government

are smart, they work really hard. And there's not a fucking million of them. They're always a little underfunded. They're always a little understaffed, right? They're always like barely getting the job done by hook and by crook. and that seems to be actually more often the case than otherwise. I'm not saying there's no bloat. But like when Doge swooped in to find all the bloat,

I think it's really telling that they didn't fucking find any. They didn't discover it. They made a whole spreadsheet of what they didn't do, right? Because they had a lie on their spreadsheet. So where's all the fucking golden toilets or whatever? Everybody's been telling us for generations. Oh, it's a million dollar toilet seat and the government can't. Where is it?

Where the fuck is it? because we had a whole crew of people. Yeah, right? So I wonder, like, is it a vict, is a functioning as a well-functioning government its own kind of curse? Yeah, I think it probably is. I think it's just like how you take your health for granted, right?

You take your health for granted until something important happens in your body that throws everything out of whack and you're like, why doesn't this thing work the way it's work? And you're like, well, you took your health for granted. And the same thing happens in government. I think genuinely, we are, we are, And we also have really short memories.

And here's one of the things that I think, all right, Tom, so can I bring the party down just a second? Just for a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I bring it down? Can I tone it down just a little? I don't know. What if having overwhelming victories for blue things inflicts a new level of authoritarianism on the country to help stifle elections in 28? What?

No. What? Why are you saying this? If you push and you have a really. break out election cycle like you just did, does that suddenly make them? Because I mean, Trump already this morning was talking about blowing up the filibuster and passing voter ID laws, right? So Trump's already talking about it. Yeah.

So does this change things? I mean, just, I mean, like, objective, like, just trying to look at it as if it was something. I mean, that feels like something that could cause some real problems. Yeah. With a group of people who now are currently lawless have no repercutting. and can lie because there's no complicate. There's literally nothing that can happen to them if they do it.

Yeah, you know what? I don't think you're wrong. And I think what this does this is so I'm worried too. Like I hear you. I think like what everybody is saying is this is sending a signal or a message to Trump that says, you know, hey, this is a sort of a sneak peek of the referendum to 2026 will be on your policies and your administration. And if that's the case, then if you're a reference.

then if you're Trump, you've got a ticking clock right now. And your ticking clock means that you absolutely have to do everything in your power to consolidate as much authority in your hands as soon as possible. Because in 2026, your life is about to get a lot worse if this goes bad. So you can't let that happen. You've got to break the system. I wouldn't be surprised at all, Cecil. I would not be surprised at all.

if we didn't see drastic, even more furious overreach, authoritarian overreach, exactly because of this. Yeah. In response. In response to this, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's depressing.

But I don't think you're wrong, man. Here, like, the thing is, like, I think you're exactly right. But also, like, let's be on guard. Right. Let's pay attention to it. Be on guard and do what we can to try to thwart it. That's all we can do. Yeah.

We're in the position now where we don't have any power. Let me take that back. We're in a position now where we have less power. Yeah. But that doesn't mean we don't have any power. Right. And that means that we can do things to help stop things or slow things. And that's what we need to do.

We need to be that fucking that thing that slows things down that that shuts the gears down. Hey, the world is healing after that Tuesday. You know, I'm just feeling good. You know what I mean? Definitely. nothing on the horizon that could potentially make me not feel good. But you know what makes you feel good is going to Adam and Eve.com and using code glory because something glorious did happen, you know.

It was a wet, a blue wetness all across the land in a way. It was a rebuking of a system that didn't. want you to get off. So that's why you should be going to Adam and Eve.com and using code glory. Because when you do, you give 50% off almost anyone item. That's like, I mean, socialist. I don't, I'm not saying this, but you could be, I'm just saying, go to Adam and Eve. com.

I'm feeling good. You should be feeling good. Let's all feel good. while, you know, there's something feel good about. In the future, but 50% off, you know, that's going to make you feel good. Spread the wealth. Spread your wealth, you know what I'm saying? To whoever you are spreading your wealth upon or towards on.

It's just it's the right thing to do. It's the human thing to do. It's the thing that I think as a species we recognize is probably pretty dope. So be more social and get a little ism while you're, you know what I mean? Like if you're isoming while you're isoming while you're social, that's good. So use code glory. Now the government might be shut down, but that doesn't mean you can't open up, you know, and pass your own CR with extended healthcare considerations,

because you're taking care of your health by going to Adameneve.com using code glory. Have I stretched this metaphor far enough? Not as far as you could be stretching your metaphor. Go to Adameneve.com, use code glory. Okay, this is the last out of the year. Okay, just do it. Thank you so much.

Bye-bye. Holy Spirit. All right. She's front hug down without looking hurt. You better turn to the side. Patter on the back. Give me that Christian side hug. That Christian side hug.

All right, dude, we got to talk about what everybody's talking about. That is the hug. The embrace between J.D. Vance. The Christian front hug? The Christian front hug, Tom. Man. The Christian grind hug.

Here's the thing, right? Like, when you watch it in regular motion, when you watch the between J.D. Vance and Erica Kirk in regular motion. It's a little gross, but not completely like, oh my God. But the pausing of it to let you recognize the position of their hips, the position of their hands is genuinely like one of those

things where you're like, what the fuck? Because her hands are in his hair. His hands are on her hips. He's fully frontally. Like I was talking to Sarah about this and I was like, when I hug other people, I try to hug them high if I can't. Yes. Now, sometimes you get thwarted where you got to hug them a little lower than before or whatever, but you're trying to hug them. I try to hug, especially women, as high as I can.

And it's sort of like a lean in. Like, you know, like, you lean in. My fucking hips are away. I'm not grinding my cock on you. I'm like leaned out a little. I try to give you a hug around the top of your, like over your shoulders, not around your neck, right? Because that's also a little intimate too.

You want to be around the sort of widest part of their show. I realize that I'm saying this and everybody knows how to hug. I'm not trying to like fucking land a fucking lunar lander here. But I am trying to explain that this is fucking weird. Because when you watch it, you're like, dude, don't put your hands on her waist. Like, what are you doing? Dude, this hug is bizarre. And it is even more bizarre when you realize that like Erica Kirk said something and I'm paraphrasing, but only a little bit,

she's quoted as saying something like, nobody can ever replace my Charlie, but J.D. Vance comes close. Yeah. And then they're hugging in this way that, like, I, like, I've never, I would never dream of hugging anybody that I wasn't intimate with in this way.

It's so, it is so weird. It's genuinely estranged. And that's the thing. Like, even if there's nothing there, there, these people are fucking weird. They're weird. People. man, Tim Walts was right.

They're fucking weird. Their behavior is abnormal. These aren't normal, regular people. I cannot imagine hugging somebody that I was not sleeping with and having them touch the back of my hair in that intimate way while my fucking hands are around your hips

and my hips are pressed to your hips. That's an I'm fucking hug. Nobody touches. Nobody touches the back of my neck but my wife. Nobody touches. Nobody touches it. I have not been grabbed or touch. Last time happened was when I was a fucking kid.

And then once I married my wife. Like that's it. Like sure, intimate partners between my wife and then, yeah. But my wife since then, that's it. That's the people.

That's the number of people that touch the back of my head. Yeah, man. Look, maybe I'm going to get some message and be like, hey, you're a prude or, you know, you guys are weird about touch.

And that's possible. It is possible, right? But I am saying right now that I don't feel like I'm unique in how I feel like, in how I feel about how that touch went down. No, but like here, here's how you can establish that baseline. Cecil, what if I hugged you that way?

How weird, Tom. If you and I... It would be a little weird if you grab my hips home me. I'll tell you what, here's what I was, I was, if you and I were in person in studio today... I'm 100% going to grab the back of your neck to the... I actually thought about this that if you and I were in studio today, I thought like, I'll lose a fucking hand. I'll pull back a stuff.

And the thing is, is his time. I wouldn't do anything. He would just, he'd crunch his neck, but it's so thickly corded that I would lose my hand in there. And I'd be pulling and I'd pull back and I'd pull back just an elbow. Like for anybody that, for anybody that doesn't think this is weird, what I thought would be funny to do if you and I happen to be in studio today. We're just not, was the on-camera hug that way? Take the picture.

And then have somebody take a picture of it. Jesus Christ, dude. Look how weird this is. This is not how friends embrace each other. It's fucking weird. I will point out to, really quickly that I've heard him multiple times say that he had only just met her after the husband had died. So, like, he was friends with, or at least friendly with Kirk, but I thought I heard him say,

I'm pretty sure on that podcast that he didn't really know her until she had died and then they became, like, friends afterwards. So that's like a really intimate hug for what is that three, four months? And what a strange thing for her to say, like, right after, dude, her husband a minute ago. And she's like, yeah, nobody's, nobody will ever replace my husband. But this person comes close.

Let me go and throw on some. I'm going to throw on my leather morning pants. Yeah. I've seen some fucking great memes though, Tom. They've been amazing. One of them was, uh, it showed, it showed eggs, cooked eggs. And it showed like a six minute egg, a seven minute egg,

a Erica mourning her husband egg. And then, it's a boils And you're like Oh my God, I fucking love that. I've seen, I saw a tweet that said I've let hot pockets cool longer than she's mourned her husband. That is like the fucking best line. Oh my God.

It's so good. It's so fucking funny. And the thing is like, here's the thing. Like I don't, I'm not trying to laugh at this lady's misfortune. But what I am saying is like, like all of this just feels weird. Yeah. And the reason why this is even out there is because everybody involved is profiting off his death. So, like, when you look at this as an outsider, you're like, yeah, they're still talking about Charlie at these talking point things because they want that cash cow to keep rolling in.

And so they're going to get the fucking, and the vice president, what he wants is all those really active people to be part of this. So they are going to fucking weekend at Bernie's this dude's corpse for as long as they. can because they want to keep on fucking milking the shit out of it as quickly as the podcast because they don't want it to go away. And so like when they're doing this and then they're also being weird while they're fucking advertising this, it's all fucking fair game, man. And Erica Kirk, like she immediately, immediately steps into the fucking power vacuum at turning point immediately.

I mean, within, within hours or days. Yeah, she was, yeah, she's hosted the podcast the next week. Yeah, this is bizarre behavior. Everything about this is bizarre behavior. Dude, like, if somebody that I deeply loved died, not even necessarily, it doesn't even, like, if you passed, I wouldn't be like, oh, man, you know, I got to get, I'm going to fucking take over cognitive dissonance and like, I'm going to figure out who I'm going to get. I'm going to step into the fucking no Rogan experience.

Like, I'm going to, here's the ways that I'm going to, I wouldn't do it. I would just be like, hey, for a while, my job is to just take care of my emotional well-being. And I know some people throw themselves into work or whatever, but that's not the thing. That is not the thing. That's not how that works. Say something for the record. Tell the people what you feel. Fuck the record.

And fuck the people. All right, this story comes from CBS News. Trump says government shutdown ends when Democrats give in. If they don't vote, that's their problem. That shows you who he cares about, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's their problem. Hey, man, like, it's not that this is not, this is the, this is the, this is the, this is the, this is the, this is the,

problem of framing everything in terms of political victors and political foes. And this tells you, again, how little Trump's intention has ever been to govern for the people, right? He's never, I mean, I don't even think he's even pretended that he had any interest in governing for the people. I think it's very evident that his only interest has been to govern for himself and to govern for his friends. And that's all. That's it. There's nothing else. I think. I think, think one of the things that this really shows is that we as a country from this point on, maybe in the past it was easier to get these things done, et cetera, et cetera. But unless you elect somebody who can actually know how to compromise and understand how

to negotiate these sort of political impasses that we come across, you're just electing somebody who's essentially useless. They are completely useless in the situation. And Trump is, as much as he tries to pass himself off as a negotiator and a demaker, he's none of those things. He's never been any of those things. When he likes you, he'll capitulate. When he doesn't, he'll hold firm and he'll, and he'll shoot himself in the foot before he gives you anything.

Like he doesn't, even if it hurts him and hurts his constituents and hurts everybody else, he doesn't give a fuck about that. Well, he cares about is whether or not your interpersonal connections make him the power one. And if you lie to him and pretend he's powerful, they'll 100% compigulate. But what, what's happening now is there's no way for him to look powerful if he has to give anything in this. So what he's going to do is he's not going to give anything. So you're going to have to rely on the Democrats and the Republicans in the House to actually get to work with each other. And I don't know that that's going to happen. I think we're in for a longer, a much longer shutdown.

I don't think it's going to end soon. I really don't either. No, I don't either. I think the, if the Democrats capitulate now, then it was for nothing, right? And I think, you put people through a hardship for nothing. For nothing. Yeah. The polls right now also really seem to show that the Republicans are being rightfully

blamed for what's happening right now. So if that's the case, then like, if you're the Democrats, you're like, look, I need, and also right now it's open and. enrollment for insurance. And like just people need to see, hey, if we don't do this, this is how much shit you eat. We're trying to help you, stupid. Like, we're trying to protect you. Much of it goes to red states too.

Much of it, much of the, much of what they're trying to do is save people in red states who are going to be experiencing extreme shortfalls on their insurance. This is, this is, I mean, this is like basic shit. It's stuff we were already paying for. And ask yourself this. the amount of money that we're spending on this that they're trying to keep in, what are you going to see from that? What are you, the American people, if they decide to keep these,

to raise prices on you and to do all this stuff, what are we going to see in exchange for hurting a much, like the lower percentage of earners in this country? What are we going to, like, what are the upper classes and higher classes going to see? And the thing is, it's not much. It's nothing, if anything. It might not be anything at all that you see in your taxes. And so you're not getting anything out of it.

That's the thing that people don't understand. They always fight for these crazy, they're like, I'm fighting for my taxes. I just don't want to pay it. And it's like a principal thing because it definitely isn't a physical or a monetary thing that they can actually see. It's none of those things. How much do your taxes go up and down based on the whims of Washington? And it's not a lot.

No, it's nothing. Like, if we were to defund entirely, if we were to defund snap entirely, if we were just to get rid of snap, that's about 1% of the federal budget. So you think your taxes are going to go down? If they did go down proportionally, they would go down 1%. 1%. So like, do a little bit of math. If you are the average household, the median income for the average household in America,

somewhere around $76,000. If you're, let's say 100% of that was. taxable. Let's be ridiculous. A hundred percent of that $76,000, no reductions was taxed, was was was was taxable. And let's say your effective tax rate was, uh, 27 percent, right? So 27 percent of 76,000 is 20, $520. That's your, that would be an absurd tax rate. Your take home is, is the opposite of that, but whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So what's one percent of that? $200. And I'm using absurd numbers. And then let's divide that by 12.

$17 a month. It's less than George Bush gave everybody. Right. It's nothing. It's less than George Bush gave everybody 20 years ago. Right. Like, that's the thing. This is nothing.

This is fucking nothing. And those numbers, by the way, are absurd. That's not how any of this works. They're absurd. It's, it's tens of dollars, people. Yeah. It's tens. Tens of dollars.

And you won't get it. And you won't get it. You're not going to get it. So even if they, even if they remove all these programs, history has shown us that that doesn't actually change the amount of money you personally get. And the answers to how we solve this is easy. You tax billionaires and corporations more. That's actually where the wealth is.

That's where the money is. The money isn't in the fucking middle class. The money isn't in that. It's not where the money exists. Yeah, tax people who are wealthy, period. That's what you should do. Yeah. If you did that, this solves all of these problems.

And we don't have a problem funding this stuff. And Snap is already too small. That's the thing. It's like snap isn't too big. Snap is too small. Already too small, man. Oh, no tears, please. It's a waste of good suffering.

This story is from the Hill. USDA tells grocery stores. This is fucking insane. Special discounts for Snap recipients are unallowed. No special discounts. Now, a more charitable reading of this is that there has been a longstanding law that does not allow price differentiations. for people on SNAP.

And I think that those laws probably exist in order to make sure that people who are on SNAP are not getting screwed, right? So they're not getting like... Price gaugged. Yeah. That's not like... I think we can like look at intent here. And I think we can be reasonable about intent. And remember, too, that laws don't self-enforce.

So laws have to be enforced. So I think it's very telling that the USDA is saying, hey, don't do this thing that would help. people. We don't want to help people. We will enforce the letter of the law, even though that letter of the law, does not actually keep with the spirit and intent of the law. Yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty obvious. When you read this story, you can see that law exists. That law exists specifically to help protect people on SNAP, not inflict damage on people on SNAP. The people on snap are going to be going to these places. And what I say is, if you're one of those grocery

stores be like, yeah, I'm actually just giving them a discount because I like their shoes. Like, fuck you. Right. Yeah. Fuck you. You know, like, the Republicans will talk to death. I know it's not true, but they will talk you to death about small government. What is more big government than the government coming in and saying, how dare you give someone a

discount because you think they deserve it? They do not deserve it. People on Snap does, that does not give them an inherent bonus in the system. Dude, you're not feeding these people. They're asking, everybody in the world is saying, hey, man, we should help these people out. And you're not even feeding these people. So what the fuck do you have to say?

Literally, the suffering is the point. When they do this, they are trying to make people suffer. They are trying to hurt poor people. If you are someone who happens to be a Republican and you see this and you cheer this, you're a fucking awful person. Do some real work in your life to get better. because you're fucking terrible. Your heart is a million sizes too small.

It's not just two fucking sizes too small. You're a terrible person. Everything about you needs to change for you to become better. Yeah. And like, remember too that SNAP recipients, think about how fucked up our accumulation and wealth distribution is in this country. If 41 million people qualify for SNAP, when in order to qualify for SNAP, generally speaking, you have to be at or below the federal poverty line.

The federal poverty line right now is $15,650 for a one person, $21,150 for two people, and $32,150 for a four-person household. That is fucking bonkers. $15,650 for one person. Where in the world does anybody think that you can survive? $15,000. That is, it should be a great shame of our country that 41 million of us rely on food aid from the government because they make so little money in an economy with so many

billionaires, with so many people are, a lot of those people are employed. A lot of those people, these aren't like, like these people want to come in and they want to talk about how everybody's fucking game in the welfare system and these people are lazy and they don't do anything and they just get money, yada, yada, yada. We talked about it last time. Most of those people are kids. Most of those people are elderly. And then very specifically,

most of those, anybody else who's left fucking works, man. You're giving it to, like, I would much rather feed 100 kids and one person cheats the system. And I know it's not that. I know the numbers are way lower than that. But I would 100% be fine with my tax dollars going to that if I know a hundred kids got to eat today. That's the thing.

That's the thing. I don't, we should be ashamed of this idea of like, well, let's reduce the number of people that get food in supposedly the richest country on the planet. We can't call ourselves the richest country on the planet when what we really mean is that the fucking gilded age part two accumulates the wealth to a tiny fraction of people who are ultra wealthy while so many others go hungry. They've done, they've done such a great job. I think the people who are in power have done such a great job of getting us to fight about a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't just you guys are getting away scot-free with all this all this wealth accumulation.

And we're fighting about other things that don't matter as much as feeding people, housing people, and giving people health insurance. And we've been fighting about all kinds of other stuff all around. And they're very happy. I think a lot of people who are giving money to the government, especially to get these people in office and maybe even funding, both sides just to get us to fight about this crazy shit that is that is inconsequential in comparison to those three things.

You try. All right. Let's talk about the Gatsby themed party actually because this is a good. This is also from the hill. How fucking gauche is this? Oh, God. So Trump throws a Gatsby themed gala as snap benefits expire. Is there anything more intentionally cruel and tone deaf that you could do with your time and

energy? There's no reason for to do this other than to rub people. faces in it, right? You can't, there's no way you're this stupid. Someone, you know, even your party planner might even said something. And what your party planner said, then the fucking, said, hey, maybe we shouldn't do this. Who thought this was a good idea? And then Carolyn Levitt sent a text and said, your mom thought it was a good idea.

Jesus Christ. You know, when I was talking to Haley about this the other day, my comment was like, you know, if you were writing a villainous story, a villainous fictional story, this would be lazy fiction writing. It's just so on the nose. It's so insanely on the nose that it's almost boring.

This feels like District One shit from fucking Hunger Games. You know what it feels like? It feels like somebody just asked Chatty PT for an ending. Yes, right. Yeah. There you go. Because it's cliche.

It's a cliche. You're like, yeah, no, of course. Yeah, you know, here's the thing. The good thing is that most of the time in the books like this, the most of the time in the doing things like this happen, someone in the next chapter is going to lose their head in a guillotine. That's all I'm saying, man. Somebody's going to lose their head in a guillotine

or some gas station worker is going to have a gun because you ran his wife over or whatever it is. However Gatsby ends. I don't remember. I don't remember either. Somebody gets mad about somebody getting run over and then they shoot somebody. I don't remember exactly how it ends, but I remember that was it. It was a convoluted.

I didn't really, I didn't really, I didn't really. I don't remember. I remember liking it as a kid because I was, I was very selfish. I remember it because the writing is good. I don't remember the story that well. I remember the story. And I remember it was like one of the few books I read for Book Report when I was kidding. Because it actually, here's the thing about the Gatsby. If you have a good narrative hook, it'll catch you. And I think as I was reading it, it had a really good narrative hook. And it just caught me. And it had me from early on, it was, it's really well written. He's just. wrong. Yeah. Well, I, like, here, Heath is wrong. And that's really the takeaway.

They, like, you just always remember that Heath is wrong. I feel like this is, that should be the theme of the entire show. Is that Heath is wrong about pretty much most things. I thought that was the theme for the entire show. Yeah, I thought that was just locked in, I thought. Dude, I remember this bro, Derek Adkins? He was

the coolest. You don't even know. It's the coolest. Anyway, we were having this slave auction fundraiser. This story is from CBS News. This is something else. Trump on Binance cryptocurrency tycoon, he pardoned.

I don't know who he is. So what he actually said is like, I don't know he is, but a lot of people said he was great, and maybe he didn't even do the things he did, and I pardoned him. And my kids are into crypto, so that's important. I mean, like, literally he says these things. Like, I'm not even making it up.

He's like, as she's saying, but you pardoned him, and you don't know who he is. And then he literally just changes the subject to, well, my kids are into that industry. And I think it's a great industry. It's a great industry to get into, you know, a lot of people. And he basically just turns it into what he always does, which is he just deflects the conversation into some nonsense that he just thought of. And he thinks everybody is so stupid that they won't notice that he essentially pardoned someone he didn't know or didn't know anything about the case. Or he did, and he pardoned somebody that genuinely was a bad person. And here's a thing. And here's the thing.

thing. The reason why this is even out there is because the hypocrisy between the congressional group saying Biden's auto pen pardons, those are invalid and Biden should not be able to pardon those people because he was being controlled by other people. He didn't even know who he was pardoning. They ask him literally the same question and he didn't know who he was pardoning. So this is someone who actually signed the document who didn't know what was happening. So you can't, this is the log in my eye while there's. is splintering yours, et cetera, et cetera. It's the same thing.

It is. And like, I think people should not, you know, Trump does this all the time where when he gets cornered for something that he's done, he basically says, I, you know, I don't know anything about it. I just relied on other people. Right. He does that sort of shit all the time. It's a deflection into ignorance. And he does it constantly, constantly so that he can't be held to account.

But like, he is held to account. It's your job. This is like the buck stops with you, dude. It's your fucking pardon. And don't think for a second that this guy who has made millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars on crypto doesn't know what he's doing when he pardons a crypto guy, billions of dollars on crypto. Like come the fuck on. How stupid the fuck do we think we are? Well, the answer is he thinks you're real fucking stupid.

And he thinks he can get one over on you or that you won't do anything about it as the most objectively corrupt present. in modern American history, he is looking right at you while fucking your wife, man. That's what he's doing. And the same goes for every single Republican on their side who, when they're asked about this

and they're asked about the discrepancy between these two things, just like Mike Johnson was the other day and he was like, well, I don't know anything about that. That's the president. Fuck you. You should be fired for that. Because everybody in the United States who has a job when they're asked about something that has to do with their job, they should have a

fucking answer or they should answer for that. Right? There's a reason why you do the job. There's a reason why you're a pick for the job. We let these people off way too easy with all of the fucking comments. Man, don't stop fucking asking them these hard-ass questions. Ask him a fucking hard question and then keep going. Don't stop.

Don't let him be like, yeah, it's great that your kids like crypto, you're a Mr. President, but that still doesn't explain why you pardoned him. Did you pardon him just and you didn't know anything about it And you're literally telling me that someone just told you to do it And then they were able to control you? Is that what you're telling me, Mr. President? Is that you're so easily controlled that someone said something And you just did it without knowing any of the implications behind it?

Is that what you're telling me Most powerful person in the United States Because the American people need to hear that? I mean, Jesus Christ, just ask the fucking question a third time. Yeah, and dude, that's the best case scenario. Think about that too. The best case scenario, Tom.

You're not wrong, Tom. You're not wrong. Best case scenario is that that is that what he said was true. The reality is probably he's lying to you and he knew the whole time because of course he fucking did. The best case scenario is a shocking level of incompetence. That's the best. Like if you were to be the most charitable in this scenario, you would have to say, wow, I will assume your grotesque level of incompetence.

And like, we've talked about this before. for, it's not like these names got picked out of a hat and that's how you become president. You have to fuck it or speaker of the house. You got to beg for that job. You got to stand up there and be like, me, please pick me, please pick me, please pick me, please pick me. That's what a candidate is. That's what an election does. That's what a fucking campaign is.

It is people standing up and saying, I'm the right guy. I'll do a good job. I will be held to account. I'll get your shit done. Please pick me. Please let me do this job. So when they don't do that job, that's so unacceptable. they said to you, please trust me with this incredible amount of power and authority.

And then we did. And then they're just like, yeah, I don't know. I don't do my job. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. So we want to remind people that Vulgarity for charity is in full swing right now. So what you can do is go to recovering from religion.org. Volgarity for charity is a link at the top. You no longer have to do all the rigmarole you had to do before where you donated. And then you had to take a copy of your thing. And you had to send it to us at an email account. And then we had to coalate and we had to have poor, Tim go through every single fucking thing that we did and put a fucking giant list together of all the people who donated and a giant spreadsheet. And then all the pictures had to go in a different document.

And poor Tim was spending hours and hours and hours of his life. Trying to do this. We don't have to do that anymore. All you have to do is go to recovering from religion. Dot the page. There's a vulgarity for charity link. It's a form. You donate to them directly.

And then after it's done, there's all these little things like, who do you want to roast? What do you want the roast? to, what do you, what do things you're roasting about? Oh, by the way, you want to include an attachment like a picture or do you want to include attachment like you wrote something? Here's a way to do that. And then all you have to do is just send that in and then you give the money and that's it. And here's the thing. All costs is $50 to get in a chance to get a roast. Now, you can give as little as you want, right? We're not asking people to break the bank. So if you if you grab a dollar, that's awesome. The people from recovering from religion would love to

have a single dollar from you. Yeah. But if you donate 50, $50 or more, that puts you in a drawing. We are taking all the people who give. We're going to take 50 people randomly from all the people who give and then 50 of the top donors. So if you're somebody who wants to help people who are trying to get out of religion, get out of religion easier, this is a great way to, great use of your money. And these people are great stewards of that. They do a great job of making sure that all these programs are happening all over the

country and in fact all over the world. So they are helping people transition away from religion, helping people with the grief that that causes and the family disruptions that cause. They are doing all of that. So all you have to do is go donate the money. And if you're a big spender, if you're somebody who has a lot of money and you can, there's a good chance you're going to get your roast red. So if you have a little bit extra cash this month and you say, hey, you know what, I'd really like to help those people. You go to recovering from religion.org, vulgarity for charity, full swing. We'd love to get as much money as possible for them. There's going to be a show that we're going to have on scathing.

We're actually recording it a little later today. So this week on scatzing, it will have already happened when the show releases. So the previous scathing will have a vulgarity for charity segment. And then we will have one later on in the month on our show. And so there will constantly be these vulgarity for charity segments. So please get your roast in. And the earlier you get them in, because this goes all the way until Thanksgiving, the earlier you get them in, the better chance you have of getting picked because that pool

is much smaller early on. Way small. So you got a way better chance of getting your roast in and getting it on one of our shows. So please go to Recovering from Religion.org, Vulgherty for Charity 2025s at the very top. All you got to do is donate 50 bucks or more

and you get a roast or a chance for a roast. That's going to wrap it up for this week. We're going to do a long-form show this week about conspiracy theories, both heartbreaking and also informative. So check it out this Thursday. And we'll be back next Monday, the full show.

We're going to leave you like we always do with the skeptic. Creed. Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno-babelon bullshit. Couched in Scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quazi alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead pan, sales pitch, late night infoducatainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, towers, tarot cars, psychic healing, crystal balls, Bigfoot, Yeti, aliens, churches, mosques, and synagogues, temples, dragons, giant worms, Atlantis, dolphins, truthers, birthers, witches, wizards, wizards,

vaccine nuts, shaman healers, evangelists, conspiracy, double-speak stigmata, nonsense. Expose your sides. Thrust your hands. Bloody, evidential, conclusive. doubt even this. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, consider supporting us on Patreon at patreon.com forward slash dissonance pod. Help us spread the word by sharing our content.

Find us on TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and Prits, all under the handle at DissinancePod. This show is can credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at 617-249-4-255, or on their website at creator accountability network.org.