Cognitive Dissonance - Episode 88: Friendly Atheist, Part 2

Episode Date: February 24, 2013

Special thanks to Hemant from the . And author of the books, and “” Thanks’ to Dan and his wife for creating the Hillbilly god images. Intro: Sam Harris TED talk.

Want to stream Cognitive Dissonance to your Android or iPhone? Buy the app. Go to DissonancePod.com and click on the link on the right-hand side of the page. Each purchase helps support the show. Now this brings us to the sorts of moves that people are apt to make in the moral sphere. Okay. Consider the great problem of women's bodies. What to do about them? Well, this is one thing you can do about them. You can cover them up. Okay? Consider the great problem of women's bodies.

What to do about them? Well, this is one thing you can do about them. You can cover them up. Now, it is the position, generally speaking, of our intellectual community that, while we might not like this, we might think of this as wrong in Boston or Palo Alto, who are we to say that the proud denizens of an ancient culture are wrong to force their

wives and daughters to live in cloth bags? Who are we to say even that they're wrong to beat them with lengths of steel cable or throw battery acid in their faces if they decline the privilege of being smothered in this way? Who are we not to say this who are we to pretend that we know so little about human well-being that we have to be non-judgmental about a practice like this i'm not talking about voluntary wearing of a veil and women should be able to wear whatever they want as far as i'm concerned but what does voluntary mean in a community where when a girl gets

raped, her father's first impulse, rather often, is to murder her out of shame? Just let that fact detonate in your brain for a minute. your daughter gets raped, and what you want to do is kill her. What are the chances that represents a peak of human flourishing? Be advised that this show is not for children, the faint of heart, or the easily offended. The explicit tag is there for a reason. This is Cognitive Dissonance. Every episode we blast anyone who gets in our way. We bring critical thinking, skepticism, and irreverence to any topic that makes the news, makes it big, or makes us mad. It's skeptical.

It's political. And there is no welcome, Matt. This is episode 88 of Cognitive Dissonance. And we are joined by Hemant from the Friendly Atheist blog. Hemant, I'm only using your first name because any attempt to pronounce your first name and your last name together would only be met by dire failure on this part. I'm surprised you got the first name right. Thank you. We interviewed you before, so I had to go back in the way back machine here. Welcome to the show.

Thank you very much for being on. Thank you, guys. Hemant, you have the Friendly Atheist blog. That blog is one of the many available at patheos.com. And it's one of the many that I raid with regularity. Thank you. For this show. So thank you for making my job easier because I am fundamentally deeply lazy.

The first story we want to go over is actually a blog post that you wrote. Cardinal Roger Mahoney, I forgive those who are angry at me for covering up child rape. What? It's such a magnanimous position to take. I know. He is such a nice guy, isn't he? You read this and you think, man, what a deep, kind-hearted individual. He doesn't even hold a grudge against those of him who are angry for being a terrible person.

It's so nice of him to forgive all those people who got raped under his watch. His cup overfloweth. It's just spilling out all over. Oh, no! His cup overfloweth. It's just spilling out all over. Oh, no.

And we've crossed the line. The line is crossed as soon as we hit record. Yes, as soon as we hit record. You know, you talk about, we're going to talk about your book later on, but it's called The Young Atheist Survival Guide. Now, in that book, do you have any survival tips for encountering a handsy priest? That's the sequel. It's The Young Atheist Self-Defense Handbook. It involves lessons in karate. It includes a rape whistle.

You know, it's got all the bells there. Packaged with the book. You open the first page, it's just a particularly vicious dog inside. The way you say that, I'm imagining like a Shawshank Redemption. You open up the book and there's like a whistle armed into the pages. Yeah, that's exactly it. So now, seriously though, one of the things that we talk

about on this show a lot, because we do cover, you know, because this is always in the news. This is always something that pops up. You know, the priesthood has covered up for these people, covered up for other priests many, many, many times before.

And we always talk about how it would be so easy for the higher-ups to just reach out like a helping hand to the groups that are trying to get these priests out of there. It would be so easy for them to clean up their act, don't you think? You would hope when it's that hierarchical that it gets fixed from the top down and it looks like it's basically the opposite. Yeah, it's just sad how they just can't seem to fix their own house, you know? And again, it's religion. These are groups that pride themselves on their moral authority to fix their own house, you know? And again, it's religion. These are groups that pride themselves on their moral authority and they can't fix the biggest problem

within their own ranks. And the worst part is, yeah, like you guys said, when people are trying to do something to fix it, they get defensive or they don't do anything about it. And yeah, it's just, it's, I'm glad it exposes the church for what it is. Yeah. I think, I think this line here, this is from his website and you quote his website in your blog post. He says, in the past several days, I've experienced many examples of being humiliated. In recent days,

I have been confronted in various places by very unhappy people. I could understand the depth of the anger and outrage at me at the church and about the injustice that swirl around us. And he says here, he says, thanks to God's special grace, I simply stood there asking God to bless and forgive them.

Forgive them. Forgive them, yes. Because he is in need. He did no wrong. Well, it's the sin of their anger, right? I mean, that's like their wrath at being victims of. Could have been out of stretch. There's only one side that can be infallible here.

Yeah. Now, now comparing this here, we are comparing this to the pope who just recently stepped down. There's some talk about him getting some immunity as well. What do you think if there's if that if that is the truth that that he I mean, you know, it's just rumor. It's just, you know, it's just speculation. But do you think that there's something to be said about him staying in the Vatican to to sort of escape the law? I'll be honest with you. I haven't read much about the immunity part of that. But you know what? It's it's one of those things that if there's something you can get him on for him to even claim that he could be immune by living there and he wouldn't have to be persecuted or prosecuted or whatever it is. I mean, that's going to be a story if and when that happens. And it's not going to help the church win over anybody. That's true. So, I mean, go ahead, be immune. It's not like anyone else in the church hasn't gotten away with stuff. But realize that when it's that high profile of a

case, people are going to find out. They're not going to be happy about it that when it's that high profile of a case uh people are going to find out they're not going to be happy about it and it's not going to help the church do anything they're lost if they want to claim that so so you're suggesting that living in a gilded palace in not it land is not going to win the hearts and minds of the world's citizens you know to avoid prosecution for child sex crimes i gotta point out in this uh this blurb that you read cecil he uses cardinal mahoney uses the word i refers to himself four times in four sentences Like this is a man who in this entire blog is mostly concerned with one person. It's not the victims. It's not his deity.

It's – he's really concerned about Cardinal Mahoney. That's who he's really concerned about. And we've talked again. We've talked about Cardinal Mahoney several times on this show. And one of the things that he did, and we might even got this off your blog, although I'm not sure if that's the case. But one of the things that he did was he had taken pictures of his victims and he was praying for his victims, these victims that had been shuffled around. And it seems so asinine. It's like you're praying for these people. Why don't you actually

do something for these people? Right, and you're fully capable of doing something by taking action against some of these priests. So we're going to be back with Hemant at the end of the show. If you're new to Cognitive Dissonance, we will be interviewing him after we go through some news items.

We're going to be talking about his book, The Young Atheist Survival Guide. And I want to say, Tom, that I think that Hemant should probably – I'm a marketer, so I just want to pitch this idea at him. I think he could probably play off of the current popularity of the undead genre and call it the zombie Jesus survival guide. But we're going to be visiting with Hemant at the end. So stick around if you want to hear him. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. To me, it's pretty simple. A person either believes that God created this process or believes that it was an accident and that it just happened all on its own. So this story comes from the raw story. Physicist Lawrence Krauss rips creationists.

Quote, it is like the Taliban. Physicist Lawrence Krauss on Tuesday defended calling the teaching of creationism a form of child abuse, saying that withholding education was harmful. And, you know, you read that and it's like, well, fucking of course withholding education was harmful. And, you know, you read that and it's like, well, fucking of course withholding education is harmful. That's why education is required by law. No kidding, right? Because we recognize that it's harmful to just be like, well, I'm just going to raise dipshits. That's what I'm going to do.

Just going to raise fucking dumb kids. They call that homeschooling. They call that the South. Oh, no. Oh, no. Please call that homeschooling. They call that the South. Oh, no. Oh, no. Please don't send us messages. Please don't send us messages and be like, I homeschool my kids. You are assholes.

We know. We know. I'm just kidding. It's a joke, people. There's a video attached to this, Tom, and it's a show called The David Pakman Show. I've never seen it, but evidently it's a YouTube show. And there's a part

where they're talking about Santa Claus. And I thought it was great. They were going back and forth and one of the things he said was the host of this show was saying at least with the Santa Claus one, it's not harmful.

It's all positive, right? It's all positive stuff that you're lying to your kid about. It's not negative stuff that you're lying to your kid about. But at least it's positive. And then secondly, there's going to be a time when you're going to tell him it's bullshit. There's going to be a moment in the future where you turn to your kid and be like, hey, that Santa Claus thing, I was fucking pulling your leg. There's no Santa Claus. It's called mommy and daddy's wallet.

That's what Santa Claus is. And there's no – I ate the fucking cookies. You know what I mean? Like those cookies didn't disappear. You know what I mean? So there's going to be a moment where you tell them it's bullshit. When it comes to creationism, when it comes to this Bible indoctrination, when it comes to telling your kids that they're going to go to hell, no, that's not something you're ever going to renege on. It's not something you're ever going to say, no, I was kidding.

Yeah. And, you know, you're also not going to teach them like, oh, well, Santa Claus is real. So, you know, you shouldn't trust the basic precepts of science, right? Like you're not going to be, you're not going to be like, look, Santa Claus was real and so Santa Claus really buried dinosaurs to test your faith in Santa. And if you really want presence... And Santa Claus really does break all the laws of thermodynamics

when he flies around. Those laws are lies straight from the pits of hell. Yeah, you know, he likens introducing creationism to the Taliban. He says it's on some level. You know, he's mitigating. He's not saying it's equivalent, but he's drawing a comparison. And, you know, he says the Taliban doesn't want girls to be educated or people to be educated because if they do, they'll understand the myths they are learning are crap.

And I think that that's part of the whole religious shell game, right? You know, keep everything moving, keep everything hidden so that the kids, while they're being educated, and they're not really being educated, but while they're being spoon-fed in this syrup of lies and bullshit, they never get an opportunity to sort of pause and look around and realize like, wow, none of this shit is real. And I can reject all of this wholesale and still lead a good life and a moral life and be happy. It is similar. I mean it is fundamentally very similar. I just want to see the person, like the creationist, who's like strapping like, I don't know, fake dinosaur bones to his chest to blow up like a, I don't know, like an abortion clinic or

something. He's lighting dinosaur bones. Actually, you're lighting dinosaur bones all the time in your car. Now we're going to get an email that's like, oh, it's not actually dinosaur bones. It's the vegetation that was underneath it. Fossil fuels are not actually made from crushed dinosaurs. Yeah. Some of the things we say aren't really true.

That is the essence of humor. Basically all of the things we say. Yeah, none of the things that we're saying are true. So see, this story is from why? Natnews.com. News. Nyum. Nyum.

I have no idea. Police suspect Modesty Squad terrorized Batar Elet. Batar Elet? I don't know. What is that? What is that? What is that? What is that?

What is that? What is that? What is that? What is that? What is that? What is that? I had to look it up today. I was like, what the fuck is a Beatar Elite?

And it's like it's a place in Gaza. It looks like it's just three L's, too. It totally does. Because of the font they chose. They chose the worst font to write this word possible. Two ultra-Orthodox men were arrested Monday for allegedly heading a modesty squad. Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na at him and telling him they terrorized female residents and says the suspects allegedly followed the conduct of the city's residents and decided to educate and educate us in quotes those who did not live up to their standards of modesty.

And I wonder, is this how Batman got started? Is this how he got started? Well, you know, like these guys are just so modest. Like the thing they would. Like, that they wouldn't. This is the modesty squad. This isn't the modesty squad we deserve. It's the modesty squad we need or whatever. I don't know.

It's that line from the Batman movie. They won't take credit for their modesty. They're just like, you're so modest. No, no, no, no, no. You're so modest. It's like this fucking. It's a humility circle jerk. It's just nobody will ever take credit for

how modest they are that's awesome like at what point are you like whoa we got to teach we got to educate that person and by doing that we really mean kidnap a 17 year old place him in a closed room and beating him yeah well you you missed out a part of this. It says beating him for daring to act wantonly. And when I first read that, I thought it said wantonly. And I was like, oh, that means he was acting like a crab ran. He's acting crunchy and delicious. These are just I mean, this is like ridiculous. This is like those. It's like those Muslims that were running around being like, this is a Muslim abia.

You have to fucking – you wear a fucking – you got to wear a burqa and not drink beer because I can't do any of those things. You have to wear a shipping container. That's right. Shipping. You have to wear another person on your person. You have to wear the skin of a fatter man. He kept crawling him like a tauntaun. None of my skin is showing.

It's somebody else's skin entirely, actually. What would they say to Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs? He's like, would you fuck me? You don't like that guy. What would they say to that guy from Silence of the Lambs? He's like, would you fuck me? You don't like that guy. What would they say to that guy? Well, he is tucked, so there's nothing visible. He's totally tucked, and he's wearing somebody else's skin that's not even his. As long as they put the lotion in the basket, everything would turn out okay.

It doesn't matter at all. It totally doesn't matter. The thing is that this sort of activity sort of activity is is commonplace. I mean, you know, we talk about it every other week. And whether it's the whether it's the slut shaming that goes on in the United States over abortion and about, you know, rape or it's the it's the modesty squad, the Muslim strong arm squad in the UK or the modesty squad in the Gaza Strip. It's all the same thing. It's religion trying to force its morality on you when it's an outdated fucking Bronze Age morality.

Right. You're not doing my book. Yeah, I'm not actually interested in doing my book. My book better. You're not doing the book enough. You're a terrible Jew, but I'm not even a Jew Thank you I'm fine with that actually

I'm also a terrible giraffe You are the worst giraffe I'm a terrible giraffe Of all nature's creatures Giraffe and I, not at all Not even close. More of the territorial hippo. You're like biting Orthodox Jews in half.

Get out of my river. What the fuck's going on here? No, I was just hungry. He's charging. He's charging. He's charging. He's charging. Allahu Akbar. Allahu Akbar.

Allahu Akbar. Allahu Akbar. So Cecil, this story is from Digital Journal. And Jim Chajaruri. That's perfect. You like that? Gosh, that's like, it's like, I just asked Google Translate to speak his name. Urges Muslims to claim Jihad Seekers Allowance.

That's awesome. I guess the Jihad Seekers Allowance is the dole. It totally is. It totally is. It's just welfare. It's like, I want the Jihad Seekers Allowance is the dole. It totally is. It's just welfare. It's like, I want the Jihad Seekers Allowance. That's just welfare. It's him and all the chavs or whatever they call those guys that are on the dole over there. They call them chavs.

C-H-A-V. I don't even know if that's how you pronounce it. What is that for? Do you know what that stands for? I have no idea. But they're they're trash. I mean, I want to call it white trash, but, you know, I guess it's just any kind of trash. You know what I mean?

Like what we would call, you know, somebody who's I don't even know. What do you even call that? That's the thing is that I don't even have like a fucking slur for them. Well, that's the thing. No, no. See, in America, we're so racially divided that we you know's like, well, how are you going to attack somebody on welfare? Well, you got to know what color they are. So we got to attack their race first and then their poverty second because we're America.

It's totally true. It's very true. I was actually – one of the funny things was I was reading an article and there were some comments about the article. And one of the things that the people were talking about was diversity. And one of the people in the in the article was saying, like, he's like, I'm black. I don't ever move into a neighborhood thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm going to up the diversity in this place. I think they think I'm moving into a better neighborhood. I mean, like, mean? Like I don't think about diversity.

It's like only white people think about diversity. It's like the rest of us don't care. We just want to live where we don't get shot and we want to go to good schools and we want to live in nice neighborhoods. Like that's all it is. That's pretty funny because it's like it's such a privileged status to be like, I want to live in a diverse community. Oh, okay. Well, you can afford to just choose whatever community you want. That's what you're saying.

You have a special financial privilege. But anyway, we're off the subject of this Muslim guy. So this guy, this radical Muslim preacher, Anjem Chidowri, was poking fun— You're so good at that that you are so good at that god damn i'm fucking spectacular you should get a job just saying muslim names shortest lived job ever it's like like why wouldn't i hire somebody who speaks arabic no no tom's really bad at this no hire me i. I'll insult your entire culture in the process. I'd be beheaded before week's end. Are you kidding me? I'd be like, hey, guys, you want to go out for lunch or get some Subway or something?

They're like, oh, I'm going to cut your head off. I'm like, fucking, and Jim Chazari. Why are you doing this to me? Stop saying my name. We have not talked about this story at all. No. He's been urging his followers to learn from the example of Muslim leaders like himself claiming, claim your jihad seeker's allowance, a reference to the fact that he lives on state benefits. He mocks people that work nine to five.

That's awesome. And calls that slavery. We just call that being a fucking responsible human being and paying your goddamn debts. Yeah. That's what you – It's funny because like I always talk about the myth of the welfare recipient. There's this myth that the people like to – that people that are really privileged like to push on the underclass by saying those people want to be on welfare all they want to do is be on welfare well i'll tell you right now i was on welfare as a kid

it sucks like it sucks in the united states i don't know what it's like anywhere else okay i can't speak to it anywhere else but in the united states it's fucking balls okay it's fucking powdered milk government cheese and. That's what you live on. You do not make a lot of money on subsistence living. Yeah. Let me tell you, the hope is in the smallest package. Like that's the smallest piece of the entire puzzle. It's not a fun thing to do. I mean, it's not a good way to live. It sucks. And you want to get off it as soon as possible. to live. It sucks. And you want to get off it as soon as possible. So I don't know. I mean, like this guy must really enjoy powdered milk. He must. He will. What he enjoys is letting the citizens of the UK finances. Holy war. I mean, that's what he's saying in here. Yeah. You know,

he's saying like basically that all the Kufar, the nonbelievers, are a bunch of fucking suckers for going to work and basically being the engine of the economy. That the Muslims should piggyback on top of, drain from the nonbelievers all the financial resources they can so they can wage holy war against the very people who are financially supporting them. Isn't that just church, though? Yeah. It's like, seriously, you are a fucking leech. Yeah. Like, you are definitively a leech. But isn't that just how churches work?

It is. It knows exactly how churches work. I mean, it's really like just, okay, well, you know, you guys go to work every day. You guys bust your hump and give me 10% of your income and I'll sit up here and tell you how great God is for two hours a week. I mean like really that's all this guy is doing anyway. It's like, whoa. He's just cutting out the fucking – the people that donate and just choosing everyone. Everyone is a donor now, not just the people who don't believe.

He's saying the people who don't believe, but I'm sure there's many Muslims that are putting into the, you know, into the kitty just as well. Of course. Right. Yeah. Um, he says here, he says, uh, it says, according to the telegraph, uh, this guy's name, uh, told an audience at, at a three hour meeting in the community center, um, that David Cameron, Barack Obama, and the leaders of Pakistan

and Egypt were the devil, shaitan. He urged Muslims to kill them. He said it was wrong for true Muslims to deny any part of Islam, including jihad and the Sharia law. He said, what ultimately do we want to happen to them, the unbelievers? Maybe I'm the only one who wants the shaitan to be killed. The shaitan should be finished. There should be no shaitan. All should be obedience to Allah, or you should have no right to call yourself a Muslim. Well, Barack Obama doesn't call himself a Muslim!

I know! That is... I mean, I know you want to call him a Muslim. A lot of people want to call him a Muslim, but he's not a Muslim. Yeah. You must hate in your heart Cameron, Obama, all that they worship. Democracy, freedom, secularism, the parliament, all the MPs and the presidents, all the Kufars' ideas, everything that people worship. We have to believe that they are bad, and we have got to reject them. Reject them with your tongue.

Reject them with your heart. In our heart, have hatred towards them. That is the religion of peace. You've got to hear that and you've got to say, that sounds good. You'll be spending some time in jail over here if you said that over here. That is fucking ridiculous.

If you said somebody should kill Barack Obama, they'll at least fucking investigate you. You might just disappear. Yeah, I mean shit. They'll fucking drone your ass. What the fuck? They can drone you. There's a part of this article that says the Muslim cleric regaled his listening audience as the best with a list about landish Sharia regulations.

We do not sleep on our stomach but on our side. You are not allowed to keep lions or tigers Snakes or scorpions cannot be kept Even dogs, except if it's a hunting dog or a guard dog or a shepherd dog Did you know that you are not allowed to ride a sheep or a cat? And I love that it's like the reason I'm not part of Islam is because I can't ride a cat And I think it's the same reason He-Man isn't a part of Islam because he can't ride a cat either if he's part of Islam. He's got that battle cat.

And there's no way they'd let him in. Even if it was a battle sheep, he couldn't even come in. A battle sheep? Because he can't ride it. A battle sheep? He can't even ride it. It's just like you hop on it. Like, oh, it's just grazing.

It's just sitting there. And you like go. It's just grazing. It's just sitting there and you're like, come on, man. Go battle. God damn it. I'm trying to fight the Kufar. Fucking this is the worst engine of holy war possible. I need you to. But isn't this just the fucking like biggest

stream of consciousness nonsense that you've ever heard? It is real weird. This is what your book says. You are a crazy person if you believe it. I know. And, you know, you read – obviously, you read some of the – he even says you cannot cut a tree without going to the hellfire. Like you just can't have shit made of wood?

Made of wood? Yeah, it's like wood. Wood. Your book is like, I'm anti-wood. It's like, motherfucker, you're a book. You're made out of paper, so he's reading it on a Kindle. Like it's fucking papyrus or nothing for you. It's either gold plates, stone tablets, or a Kindle.

Those are your only options. So we're going to take a quick break, give you some information on how to contact us, and then we're going to come back, do a couple more stories, and we're going to finish the show with Hemant from the Friendly Atheist blog talking about his book, A Young Atheist Survival Guide. So stick around for that. Want to contact Cognitive Dissonance? Visit them on Facebook.

You can find the link at the website dissonancepod.com or type it in the Facebook search bar. Be sure to follow the guys on Twitter. Their handle is at Dissonance underscore pod. The guys also post to Google Plus now too, so check them out there. And if you'd like to email them, you can do so at Dissonance.podcast at gmail.com. You can also leave a comment on the blog at their webpage or give them a call at 740-74-DOUBT. That's 740-743-6828. Long distance rates apply.

And to everyone who listens, shares, retweets, or rates the show, Cognitive Dissonance would like to cordially thank you for all of your fucking support. So Cecil, this story is from, try to restrain your surprise, the Friendly Atheist blog. An Unholy Alliance, Private Prisons and the Christian Right. This is quite a long article. This is an article actually by Lawrence T. Chablacki, and it appeared in the 2013 March-April issue of The Humanist. So it was excerpted for the Friendly Atheist blog.

And, you know, this article is significant. And what it's proposing is that there is a problem with the for-profit private prison system, which is difficult enough to say, much less to be in. Yeah. And the way that that system is tied in with the evangelical Christian organizations and how those two go hand in hand. And Cecil, I think you and I both felt the end of this article particularly was noteworthy. Yeah, yeah.

The for-profit systems in this country, I mean it's no secret that we have one of the largest, if not the largest, prison population in the world. We have a revolving door with drug offenders. We have three strikes you're of time for very little – for things that are not – that are not – I don't think that you should be spending life in prison for, but they do. And there's a lot of times that the Christian – the religious right is fighting against legislation because of changing things like drug laws or immigration laws would decrease the amount of population that heads to offer 48 states offering to purchase their prisons if and only if the state would sign a 20 year contract that guarantees that they'll send enough inmates to 48 states that this fucking corporate, this corrections corporation of America sent that says, if you're willing to commit to a 90% occupancy rate of all these prisons, we're willing. So there's no chance of this, you know, this, this, uh, this giant prison system that we have ever being any smaller, you know, I mean, granted, you know, as time goes on, you know, the population is going to rise so that, you know,

even if they did stay at 90% of their current rate, that would still shrink the population of the prisons, but not by enough where we're actually rehabilitating them and making them go out into the world and helping them fix their lives. And I think that's the part of the article, Tom, that you and I really feel is the most important part. I'm going to read directly from the end. He's confronted in this article. He says that a prison inmate confronted him because he basically said, look, I don't think that they should be forcing religion down your throats here, even if it is for programs and things. And basically, the person said, the inmate said, well, you know, what are the humanists doing? And I'm going to read directly from the end of the article. He says, the increasing presence of evangelical Christians

in our prison should be a clarion call to the American Humanist Association during an annual meeting to create a blue ribbon community charged with the mission of making recommendations for how the philosophy of humanism, along with the presence and activities of humanist communities, can be introduced and propagated in some of our nation's prisons. And I think that's the most important part, is that we see, because it's visible all the time, the prayer vigils that happen all over the place. The halfway houses that are religious that help these people out of prison, the religious institutions that go in there and help these people.

Where are the humanists? Where are they doing? And this is, like I say, this is the call to action. If we're going to have meaningful reform, that meaningful reform of the prison system has to come from the secular community as well. In the name of Jesus, we speak that. This story comes from... What would JT do?

New study. Religion doesn't deter criminal behavior. It actually reinforces any behavior, i love i fucking love that this is i mean like no fucking big surprise right when you have religious texts when you have religious bodies and organizations that are so outlandishly meaningless like when you have religious texts that just include everything and include nothing, then whatever you're doing is either fine or it's not. It's whatever you want it to be. No big fucking surprise. Religion doesn't make people better. We know that. Like we were just

talking about the prison system. Look at the fucking prison system. It's full of religious people. Okay. So we just got done talking about how humanists need to have a call to action in prisons. What would a humanist mindset, how would a humanist mindset do better, Tom, than a religious mindset in this case? Like, because we're saying, you know, like, we should give them

something that's a humanist way to think when they're in the prisons. How would a humanist mindset help think when they're in the prisons, how would a humanist mindset help them more than a religious mindset? You know, one thing the religious mindset always will do and that is not helpful at all, and it's particularly not helpful for people who are struggling with reentering society, is it's, you know, rather than religion banding people together,

it only bands people together into small sects, right? And those sects are mutually exclusive. And you can kind of, I mean, I hate to say this, but you can kind of look at it like gangs, you know? Yeah, yeah. You've got this group of religious people, and they have this one set of beliefs, and this group of religious people,

and they have another set of beliefs. And that seems to reinforce that isolationist, you know, tiny community tribal behavior that is so wholly unnecessary and destructive. Whereas a humanist mindset would say, hey, you know, we need to look at this from a perspective of what are our goals as a society? What are our goals as a species, as people? And how can we work together to meet these goals? And doing that means that everybody gets to be included within that community. And when you take that and move that into something like the prison system, a system that's already incredibly segregated into tribal communities, incredibly segregated by race, incredibly hierarchical. It helps to break down, I think, ideologically, it would help to break down some of those barriers and would probably create a deeper and more honest sense of community.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I think there's an interesting part of this article, too, where they say that God endorses their behavior. So I think, again, this is where the humanists could do better because, you know, there's so many times that you read that you read or hear about people who do things and think, you know, well, God is on my side, even though they're doing things that are, you know, patently awful. You know, they're doing something that is not moral, but they're doing things that are, you know, patently awful, you know, they're doing something that is not, uh, moral, but they're, they're acting, uh, they're acting in such a way where they think that, you know, God is on their side and these people will use God as a, as a, you know, as a, as a scapegoat and say like, well, look, you know, God is on my side. God loves me. God wouldn't have me do these things. You know, there's all that Jesus take the wheel bullshit.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, and so I think, you know, responsibility for your actions, understanding, understanding other people, empathy, all of those things are things that people can get out of humanism. And, you know, you can use those things to help you become a better person. What also strikes me is religion has a problem with forgiveness. And I really mean this. Religion teaches people that you can do awful shit and then you can pray it away. You can be forgiven. It doesn't somehow it doesn't count anymore. The ultimate authority has forgiven you of your various trespasses. And and while that's that's very sunshine and roses, I don't think it's terribly fucking socially useful.

Yeah. You know? There's some shit that you just shouldn't be forgiven. You should not be able to look back and be like, well, I was forgiven for that time that I murdered that family of four when I broke into their house. I've been forgiven. So fucking live and let live, whatever. Jesus still loves me.

No, fuck off. That's not how that works. There's some shit that you just got to say, like, well, I fucked that up. I can't be forgiven. Religion has a forgiveness problem. And you take that into the prisons and it's like, well, fuck it. I can do whatever the fuck I want all i have to do is regret it later okay that sounds like my life sounds like my eating habits yeah i know

mostly my my escapades are on the dinner table if you'll excuse me i need this gallon of ice cream before we continue i need to choke down a cake like a fucking snake. I need to unhinge my jaw and swallow the whole cake. I only like cake when it's been deep fried. Otherwise, it's too healthy. You go into the bakery, the bakery shop, you're like, what is this, a health food store? What the fuck, guys? Where's the deep fat fryer?

Fuck it, I've got one in my car. Just bring it, wheel it out. You're dipping gingerbread men in batter and just frying them. You want answers? I think I'm entitled to them. You want answers! I want the truth! You can't handle the truth.

This story is from OpposingViews.com. This is from, Cecil, I've got to point this out. This is from their health section. Their health section. Attackers cut off seven-year-old albino's hand in Tanzania. We'll likely use it for witchcraft. You have no idea. They're going to probably use it for witchcraft or a tasty soup.

Well, no. I mean, think about it this way. Could you imagine if you – it would suck if you were that kid and you come into some witchcraft gift shop and your hand is some elaborate back scratcher? That would make me so mad. It's being sold to tourists. Yeah. Tourists come in, they're like, man, I love these fucking Tanzanian back scratchers.

They really hit the spot. Let's see. Do I want an ivory tusk pencil holder? Can I get, let me get one of those elephant foot umbrella holders and I'll have this back scratcher hand. If you could replace a frame. Light fire to Africa. Everything should be made of the most like ridiculous shit possible.

Like, like the frame of your car should be all narwhal tusks. Like it should just be all narwhals. Just that's all it is. And you have to replace it every week because it breaks constantly. It should just be all narwhals. That's all it is. And you have to replace it every week because it breaks constantly. It's awful. It's terrible workmanship. Those narwhals hardly know how to put anything together. They don't make them like they used to.

It's fucking union narwhals. Narwhals. That's awesome. Why the fuck would it be? Why would you look at an albino in Africa and be like, oh, that's magic? Yeah. That's not good magic then because you're an albino in Africa.

Of all the places to be an albino, I would think Africa would be not the one you would. Like, if you were a fucking albino Inuit, nobody would even notice. They'd be like, hmm? You're constantly covered in snail – in like a snail, in seal grease. So nobody even knows. Right? Right. You're like, oh, man, how's Joe over there?

I don't know. He's covered in fur. How are you? It's freezing up here. Fuck. It's cold. I hate it. I hate it. No, Tom. They love How are you? It's freezing up here. Fuck. It's cold. I hate it. I hate it.

No, Tom. They love it. Yeah. Nobody loves living up there. Nobody loves it. Even the Inuit are lying to themselves. That's fucking ridiculous. Yeah.

You know your life is shitty when you live in an ice house and drive a dog to work. Yeah. You have fucked up your life. And you're like chewing blubber after work for food. That's awesome. I want to say though, because there's a part of this article I could not believe. It says a few days before the attack,

it says an albino mother of four was attacked by five people and had her arm cut off by a machete. And now I look this up, it turns out that's not the safest or most efficacious way to remove a limb. I had to look it up. I think it's number seven under putting your arm in a wood chipper.

Ow. Ow, fuck. Like a machete? Yeah. You're just walking down the road. Like, what is – I mean, does fucking Jason Voorhees live over there? Like, you're walking down and you're just like, oh, there's that guy with the hockey mask. Here he comes.

Oh, man. He's going to cut another albinoino arm off it's just like the limbs are just flying off you would think this would be like an unlucky rabbit's foot it's the albino just like it's hanging on like a little tiny key loop yeah it's like a whole arm of somebody it's all fucking desiccated and nasty. And it's just like, oh, yeah, I got my car keys on there. It's awesome. I'm so lucky. I wasn't fucking lucky for the albino. Yeah.

It's not lucky at all. Like I had the whole body and it wasn't lucky because I got attacked by a group of lunatics with a machete. Gosh. I mean, it's not a safe place to be an albino. Heck, that wouldn't even be a safe place to be a white person with black features. No. So, Tom, stay out of there. They would take one look at me and be like, too fat, American.

He's come to eat our village. They'd be like, man, there's no way I'd be able to cut through that in one swipe with a machete. I'm sorry, there's no way. They, like, put down the machete and they just grab a bigger machete. It's like the America machete. It's like, oh, yeah. They grab a steel chainsaw. They're just like, no, no way a machete is going to work.

I got my swing on, baby. So we're back with Hemant from the Friendly Atheist blog. Hemant, you have a book out that Tom and I both read called The Young Atheist Survival Guide. Could you tell us a little bit about your book? Yeah. So I'm a high school teacher, and I have been for six years, still am. And I've worked with the Secular Student Alliance for almost a decade as well. And so I was trying to figure out the best way to kind of combine those worlds. And I realized I hadn't really read a lot about how to be an atheist when you're in high school.

How do you deal with all the obstacles that you got to deal with when you're a young atheist. Because I know there's a lot of press about college groups and all the things local groups are doing to kind of let atheists out themselves and have these discussions in communities. And it's awesome. I remember when I was in high school, I didn't have any venues like that. I didn't have any outlets. And really, the Internet was not as awesome as it is now if you're an atheist. So as I I got to say, too, like when I write about high school or middle school atheists on my website, people's hearts go out to them because, man, it doesn't even matter if you live in a Bible Belt state. matter if you live in a Bible Belt state, there is so much crap you got to deal with from parents, from your friends, from people, your friends trying to take you to their church. And there's not just, you know, peer pressure, but just active discrimination in some cases. So I want to highlight some of those stories and talk about what those atheists, those young atheists could do to help themselves,

what teachers and administrators can do, what parents can do to kind of make that transition easier. So that's kind of the gist of the book and what I was trying to do. I want you to address one of the critics. I was looking at Amazon, you know, reading through some of the reviews. You had 11 reviews of the book. The most helpful critical review, though, I need you to address this. This book has been needed for many years and Hammond did a fairly good job and he's been a very good role model for the rise of atheism. I just wish I'd waited till the price matched the value perceived for an electronic copy, which should be less than three dollars.

Which I have complete control over. So I know I could take care of that. I love that the criticism that's leveled at the book is, hey, why isn't it $3? That's pretty awesome. That's so ridiculous. You should price what I want. Yes, my Kindle ran out of juice before I could finish the book. One star.

The Kindle ran out of juice before I could finish the book. One star. Why did you drain the battery on my – It's a short book. The Kindle lasts a month. You've got to be a slow reader. Jesus. Yeah. So you do talk – you just mentioned this.

You just finished talking about this. But you talk about your book about peer pressure from other students, about hostile administrators. How much of your book is dedicated to diffusing the other side, so to speak? I don't know that I'm saying anything negative about Christianity. In fact, I think if any Christian reads this, they would hear what's going on in some of these stories. And, you know, part of the book is not just about how Christians treat a lot of atheists really poorly, because I don't think anyone's really defending those Christians, but some of it's also the way that some Christians try to push prayer into public schools, how they try to have assemblies that are all about, like, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, stuff like that.

But somehow it turns into a religious revival meeting of sorts, and there are sneaky ways to do that. But somehow it turns into a religious revival meeting of sorts. And there are sneaky ways to do that. There's things about coaches on teams praying with their students. These are all things that I don't think anyone would think. I think a lot of Christians would not think of all those things as big deals. But when you're an atheist in those environments and you feel like, you know, you got to, as one person put it, you have to pray to play. That's not right. And I would hope most Christians reading that would say, you know what, that's wrong. And if I see it in my neck of the woods, I got to do something about it. It really has nothing to do with whether Christianity is right or wrong. I'm not it's not an argument in favor of atheism as much as it is just saying,

look, there are atheists there. A lot of times they get treated like crap. Here's the ways you can help them deal with that. I see. So it's like a call to action for students and for administrators. Absolutely. Absolutely. So what are some of the ways that you say – and now in your book there's a whole chapter dedicated to this.

What are some of the ways that they can spread the friendly atheism, so to speak? If you're a student and you're willing to out yourself as an atheist to your friends and maybe people who are very close to you, I think one of the best ways to do it at that age is just by starting a group. Just about every high school will allow you to begin a group for whatever really you want to, as long as you follow school rules. And with most atheist groups that I've seen at that age, it's really not about spreading atheism. It's about having discussions about religion. It's about having debates. It's about learning about what different religious people believe. It's really an educational group,

not so much an antagonistic, aggressive, you know, everyone else sucks type of group. That may be the best way to just explore your own beliefs. And, you know, for people who are kind of on the fence, which I know a lot of high school students are at that age, it's a chance for them to really explore their beliefs and, you know, raise their doubts in a way that's not hostile. And let's face it, the Christian groups at your high school really don't allow for that. And so that's a thing students can do. Teachers don't have to hide the fact that they're atheists, you know, if they're called out on it. If a student asks them what they believe, it's okay

to say, I'm not religious. In fact, one teacher that I talked to, and I write about this in the book, he said that he's been teaching for a long time. And his students would ask him, you know, what religion are you? And he would just say, you know, I don't feel comfortable answering that question. So if it's okay with you, I'm just going to keep it to myself, you know, and they'd move on. He was a good guy. And then he realized none of the Christian teachers at school ever said that. They would always be like, oh, I'm a Christian and I go to this church and you should go one day or something like that. Then he's like, you know, why am I holding back? Why am I the only one holding back? Because there really isn't anything wrong with those Christian teachers saying,

I'm a Christian and whatever. There's anything wrong with those Christian teachers saying I'm a Christian and whatever that's there's nothing wrong with that um so he finally began answering you know uh I I don't go to church my wife and I are both atheists and just left it at that and that's it and what he found happened was that most kids were totally fine with it and in fact some of them realized that he was like a trustworthy guy that they could come up to him and say, you know, Mr. So-and-so, we want to begin a group for atheists. Can you help us? Can you be our sponsor? And so if teachers are willing to let themselves be known as atheists, not endorsing it, not talking about it or anything, but just, oh, you ask? Yeah,

I am an atheist. And that's it. That's a huge deal. And even administrators can make sure that, you know, not one religion isn't granted privilege over any other group, that just because you're a Christian group, you can do this and that, and no other group is allowed to. They can make sure that, you know, the different groups are kept in check. I'm surprised there isn't more backlash. I'm surprised. You know, it, it, it,

it strikes me that, you know, because, uh, there is so much, um, there is a lot of, uh,

people that I think are, uh, that think that atheists are, uh, I mean, there's a lot of distrust of atheists. There's a lot of, uh,

a lot of people that dislike atheists, a lot of people that didn't, I mean, you listen to, uh, you know, Reverend Hagee on the, on the, on the, you know, giving a sermon and he'll say, you know, atheists leave the country. So I'm sort of shocked that there is no, that you didn't encounter any, you didn't find anything that had any backlash when somebody outed themselves as an atheist, as either an administrator or as a teacher? Again, the teachers and the administrators who did,

and there is one administrator who actually went out of his way to try to stop Christian groups from passing out the Bible to students in school. And he did get a lot of backlash from his community for doing it. And the surprising thing is he was a Christian too. He just didn't think they should be doing that. And he was right. Um, and, uh, but the truth is the students who are willing to come out and start these groups and raise these questions, um, they deal with a lot of stuff. Um, I mean, at the very least when these organizations begin, uh, having their meetings, the posters are ripped down immediately. Um, Just about every student

I talked to, they even referred to, you know, oh, yeah, we put up posters and then, you know, like everyone else, they got ripped down. It's like, not like everyone else. Like, I know that's true, but you say it like it's not a big deal. And it is. Your posters are getting ripped down. And they said we made two sets of posters to hang up in school, one for the morning and one for the afternoon. Oh, my gosh. They were going to get ripped down. And then you get to the point where some students like who are writing newspaper articles, there are articles about why they're an atheist. An opinion piece is not allowed to go in the school paper because it might offend people, even though these are not offensive articles. Or, you know, some students don't want to stand for

the Pledge of Allegiance and some schools give them detention for it. They're not allowed to. And thankfully, the students are aware of that, but the administrators aren't. But it's just it's the sort of thing that when it happens and you think you're the only atheist out there, hopefully these kids realize that even if you're the only atheist at your school that you know of, there's a lot of other people who have been in your shoes, who have dealt with this. There are a lot of organizations that will help you deal with any obstacle that you have. So seek them out and get their help because, trust me, even if you think you're alone, you're really not. You know, one thing that occurred to me reading this book is that, well, I very much appreciate a sense of community, and to protect your personal rights and your constitutional rights. And those things are all addressed very well in the book. Thanks.

Yeah, I mean I totally agree. acceptance and having that group of friends and finding out that you make friends with new people who share a common interest, whether it's playing a sport or doing theater or whatever. And in some cases, you know, very few groups really let you talk about religion or philosophy in a way that some of these secular student groups do. And so I think that is an important way to have these discussions. And if it's not an atheist group, let it be like a religious discussion group or philosophy group or whatever, because you want those conversations out in the open, because there really isn't a lot of places you can get it. And even in a classroom setting, in a really good class where you can discuss these things openly with the teacher moderating, you don't get the freedom that you might just after school hanging out with people and talking to them about it. So

yeah, I hope they take advantage of it because it is really nice to know that there are people who enjoy talking about it. And, you know, from a personal standpoint, the last thing I want is to see high school students, to be blunt, be dicks about being an atheist at that age. Like take the chance and get to really understand what it is other people believe and know your own beliefs so that, you know, when you get to college, when you graduate, you can do something about it. You know, what what occurred to me, though, is that it would be nice if there was kind of the flip side to this book, you know, and I'm not saying it's your responsibility to write it, but I'd like to see a flip side where it's, you know, the educator's guide, you know, the, the atheist educator's guide, because one thing that kept

occurring to me is, man, that's a lot of onus to put on the student. You know, the student has, and that's, and that's just the necessity. That's, that's part of being a minority group in, you know, in any in any situation. Right. Is that the onus for justice is often going to fall on you. But it would be nice if the educators had a rallying cry to say, hey, we're not going to wait for the students to start this group. We're going to try, you know, to to organize a national educator push to start these groups, to have it available, to draw the students in? There's I did try to address this in the book because the issues that I always came across when I was researching this stuff, it really was student driven. And the teachers and administrators

were only players in their stories, really. But one of the things that happens at a high school setting is it really does have to be the teachers playing a supporting role. The teachers have to take a supporting role in all this. They can't really say, hey, I'm going to start an atheist group, and if any kids want to join it, come do it. I think most high schools either frown upon that or it's not allowed in general. I know I couldn't do that in my school. In most cases, it has to be a student-led, student-initiated group. And yeah, there might have to be a faculty sponsor, but it's not faculty-led. So it's kind of hard to say at a high school level, hey, faculty, take charge here. They really can't do that. But what they

can do is make sure their classroom is a safe space for atheists, that if they hear anything, if they see anything where and not just atheists, if they see any student getting attacked or discriminated against in some way because of their beliefs, put a stop to it right there. And I mean, the same thing goes for sexuality, for, you know, if there's a gay student in class, make sure they're not being bullied, et cetera. I mean, that's that's the job of a good teacher. Um, so, I mean, I would hope any teacher administrator is doing that. Have you gotten any, any like backlash at all? Has anybody like not read it and just read the title and sent you some bad email or something? I've gotten absolutely no backlash. I've gotten absolutely no backlash i've gotten a lot of really wonderful positive feedback um actually got a nice email the other day from a student uh who read the book and just um you know she she's gone through so many things in her own life as an atheist getting name calls in school kids trying to trip, throw religious pamphlets at

her face, calling her names and all that. And she thought she was the only one who had to deal with stuff like that. And when she read the book, she told me that she realized that, wow, it's not just that she's not alone. It's that there are other kids out there that have gone through the exact same thing. And so, you know, she she learned a lot from that experience. And just, man, it's good to know that you're not the only one who has to deal with that shit. So I'm going to put you on the spot here for just a minute. Let's imagine for just just for a moment, hypothetically speaking, if you were on, say, a podcast, and you had but a few moments to give one piece of sage advice to high school and middle school kids who might be atheists, who might be listening to a program such as this, what advice would you give to those students? If you just had

one, just like, this is your last bullet in the gun. I think they should explore their beliefs for themselves. They should read as much as possible, listen to podcasts, read websites, whatever they can to expose themselves to new ideas. Because at a high school level, there are so few ways to really explore religion. And so it's one of those things you just kind of have to do on your own. So I hope they take advantage of that because I remember when I was in high school, some of the ways I formed my own beliefs was having – when I went out with my friends, that would be a topic of discussion because we all believe different things. And it was never contentious, even though we were not always in agreement. And it would be fun. And then I learned I started reading books. And, you know, I remember this is back in the day where there was like AOL dial up

and there was like not a lot of websites, but there were like a couple websites about atheism. And I started searching, like, what happens if you don't believe in God? What what is I didn't even know the word atheist like that's but you came across these websites about atheism. And I'm like, oh, these people are crazy. But when I started reading what they wrote, I'm like, oh, my God, I kind of agree with what they're saying. And that wouldn't have happened unless I actually started exploring it for myself, you know, outside of the eyes of my parents who are religious. And, you know, everyone else that I kind of knew who, you know, everyone I knew seemed to be religious in one way or another. So it was one of those things I just had to explore for myself. So I hope other kids and even if you end up being religious as a result, fine, but explore

it, figure, see where that leads you, see if you. See if you agree with some of these arguments or not. Because it's one of those things that really doesn't happen on its own. So if our listeners wanted to get a copy of this book, where would they go? Easiest way is to go to FriendlyAtheist.com, and there is a link in the sidebar for the book. But they can also go to Amazon and search for Young Atheist Survival Guide. So you have a newer book that we didn't get a chance to read yet. What's that book about? Yeah.

You know what? It's a collection of blog posts that I've written over the past few years, some of my favorites, that deal with the subjects of politics and GLBT type of writing, young atheists also. But it's kind of the blog posts that I've written that kind of encompass my thoughts on those issues. So it's not so much a book as it is. This is what I was feeling at the time that I wrote this article. So if you want kind of a taste of what my blog is about and the sort of things that mean a lot to me when I write about stuff, it's just a compilation of it. It's put together by this awesome company called Hyper Ink and Hyper Ink actually publishes

they publish similar types of books by Alexis Ohanian who founded Reddit and a couple other bloggers who have written for a number of years so really cool company to work with and they help put this thing together it looks beautiful

and they did a nice job of we picked these posts together and they put it together. It's really cool. Is there anything else you want to plug? You know what? I'm the chair of a group called Foundation Beyond Belief, which is an organization that tries to urge atheists to give money to secular charities. And so if anyone's interested in learning more about that, you know, one of the things we always find is that every study shows that religious people give more to charity, not just their church, but to charity than anyone else. And I don't know why that would be true,

other than they just have a better way to give money. They have a venue for doing it. And atheists don't really have that unless we seek it out on our own. So Foundation Beyond Belief gives atheists a good way to give money to really awesome organizations. We vet them for you. We tell you about them and you could divvy up your money however you want. So if you're interested in that, it's foundationbeyondbelief.org. And it's, I've been working with this group since it started about two years ago. We are, we have given away, I would say, uh, it's well over three quarters of a million dollars right now, um, of people making donations, atheists making donations to these groups. Um, I'm so proud of this group. So if anyone's interested in learning about them, check it out.

Hemant, thank you so much for coming on our show. We really appreciate it. And we hope everybody goes out and gets this book. Especially if you're a young atheist, The Young Atheist Survival Guide is a great book. Thank you guys so much. And yeah, and if anyone has any questions after they read it, friendlyatheist.com is my website. My contact information is on there. I'd love to hear from your listeners. Fantastic. Awesome. Thanks, Hemant. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you, guys. No problem. Hope to talk to you soon. So we got a little bit of voicemail. We got a voicemail from Pat from Evanston. We got one

from the King of Cash Money, and we got one from Steve. We actually got two from Steve, but we're only going to play one from Steve. This is Steve reading the Ten Commandments, but we're going to read them. We're going to let him read them to you so then Tom can read them from Google Translate afterwards. Okay, this is King of Cash Money. I'm really high. I thought of something. Okay, we're going to sing you a prayer and we go into Bible camp. Okay, ready? Thank you, God, for giving us food. Thank you, God, for giving us food. For bread, the keys to bed. Thank you, God, for giving us food. Thank you, God, for giving us food. Amen. Hey, it's Steve from Vegas again. Quick addendum to my last Google voice.

Something I've been wondering about for the last couple weeks. What would the translator make of King James Version of the Ten Commandments? And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which hath brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images. 3. Thou shalt not take the name of thy Lord thy God in vain. 4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

Five, honor thy father and thy mother. Six, thou shalt not kill. Seven, thou shalt not commit adultery. Eight, thou shalt not steal. Nine, thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. And don't you forget it. Hey, Cecil. Hey, Beanie. Sorry, Tom. Big fan of the show. And I just wanted to say, whenever I hear the Islamic call to prayer drop in,

to me it always sounds like they're saying, Along went Crump, along went Crump, along went Crump, along went Crump. I don't know what that means, but that's what it sounds like. Anyway, enjoy the show and keep it up. Sounding good. Thanks. This is Pat from Evanston, Illinois. A local boy. So, Tom, Ten Commandments. Hey, it's the From Vegas again. Quick addendum to my last Google Boys. Something I've been wondering about the last couple of weeks. What would the friends later mate of King James version of the Ten Commandments?

And I got the state. All these words things I handle bored. But I got which have brought the out of the land of Egypt of the house of bondage one of this show. Have a new other dogs before me.

Two. Dogs before me? No. Two. Dogs before me? Two. I was Shelton, not make from. Two. D. To meet rebooted dimensions.

Three. Oh, shelled my take. The name of the word I got it in. Vain. Four. Remember the word. I got it in. Vain. Four. Remember the Sabbath day. To keep it. Julie.

Julie. Five. Offered by father. And by mother. Six dollars. Shell. Not feel. Seven.

That'll show. Not commit. Bill treat. Eight. Show Not commit bill treat 8. Show Not you 9. So Shelton That they're all sweetness Against by a neighbor 10. About shelter

Not hope it And but you forget it A lot of I mean God really talks to Shelton a lot. He's just like him and Shelton. They go way back. We got, we got a voicemail.

One of the voicemails was from King of Cash Money who called us really high. Oh my God. He was really high. And he wanted to tell us, thank you, God, for giving us food. It's not God.

That's the pizza guy. Yeah. Okay? That's not God. And I do want to point out that he also sent us an email rescinding his voicemail. No, no, no, my friend. But that doesn't fucking work. We own that shit.

You can't fucking high dial us and then be like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to fucking do that. Yeah, whatever, dude. You got your hours now. Let's see. Oh, Tom, this is this is from an email address called Start Thinking. Yeah, this is great. When using the podcast app on an iPhone, the phone very conveniently pauses the podcast you're listening to when you answer an incoming call, say, from your mother, and resumes playing when you hang up.

Now, if you do receive a call from your mother while listening to a podcast, then get to your in-law's house and forget what podcast was playing when you took the call and you hand the phone to your child so they can talk to their grandmother. You should not leave the room oh no my in-laws are very religious quite republican and have no sense of humor that i'm aware of when my daughter hung up from talking to my mother my wife's parents my wife and my children had the opportunity to hear quite loudly exactly what i was listening to and also what you guys think about Peter Popoff. We're okay now, in case you were wondering. Oh, no. We're very sorry.

Actually, I'm not sorry at all. But thank you, Start Thinking, for sending us an email and letting us know of your woes. We got a couple of different people sending us an email about the apps this week. One person sent us an email about the app and said it really wasn't that great. It's like, well, I didn't design it. I know. It's not very good. It's like a freebie.

Like it's a freebie they tack on to the money that we give them. So, yeah, of course it's not going to be great. But we welcome anyone else who wants to design a better one. We totally can, like, take you up on that. Because I'm not going to do it. Yeah, I know. And speaking of this, someone, David says, I didn't see a donate button on your show. Do you guys take donations?

Are you planning on doing another campaign for Doctors Without Borders? If so, I can just donate to that. I did buy a cool-looking t-shirt, so thanks for having that available. First things first, Tom and I are looking to go to TAM this year. And we are starting to collect some of the Audible money soon. Hopefully. So the Audible money that is supposed to come to our podcast is hopefully going to be deposited in one of our accounts eventually. But one way to support the show is if you're not a subscriber to Audible, go to our website, dissonancepod.com.

There's an Audible link that takes you to the section that basically gives us credit for giving, you know, for taking you there. So audible knows that you came there through us and then sign up for a free audible audio book. Uh, it's a subscription service. Sign up for it. If you don't like it, you can cancel. But, uh, Tom and I both are avid audible listeners. We listen to audible. I know I have a account. Tom has an account. account. So we enjoy it a lot. We recommend it to people. We think it's a great service. So if it's something that you like and it's something that you want to do and you want to support the show, that's a way to do it. Another way to support the show is to buy the app.

We get a lot of complaints about the app. People don't like it. So if you don't want to spend $2 on a terrible app, feel free to spend $2 on it. The thing is, is like I don't think it's a terrible app. Like I use spend $2 on it. The thing is, I don't think it's a terrible app. I use it all the time because it streams the show very well. Stitcher streams the show, but I think Stitcher streams at a

Stitcher streams at a little lower rate, so the sound quality isn't as good. Stitcher is a wonderful program, though. I think Stitcher gives you the ability to download a ton, to listen to a ton of different shows while you're streaming, which is great. Our app will allow you to listen to our show streaming, which is nice because you can then listen to all of our shows. I think Stitcher only gives you a

limited backlog, too, whereas if you had our app, you could listen to all the shows streaming on your mobile phone. That being said, we only get a dollar out of that. So if you buy an app, we only get a buck. The best way I think right now to give us, if you wanted to support the show, is to buy a shirt. Now, yeah, it costs 20 bucks or 25 bucks, but you get a shirt out of the deal and we get seven or six dollars out of the deal, which is nice. We are going to have a special shirt coming up very soon that's going to be our Send Us to Tam shirt. So basically we're going to ask you to buy a shirt to help send us to Tam to help pay for the cost because it's like $500 or $600 just to even get in the door there. So we're going to ask people to buy shirts then, and that money will be hopefully used for that.

But we're going to have a special shirt for that, and it's going to be coming out in a couple weeks. We're actually designing it right now. And we need the seatbelt extensions on the air flight. I mean, it's bad. I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot. I got to get the double aisle seats. Thing is, is you're not at home there

and I can't shop at Costco when I'm out there to eat the giant boxes of cereal in one sitting. So I have to feed myself while I'm out there too, which is a lot of money. What I think it's like $100, if your bag is over 100 pounds, we're going to be there four days. I mean, my granola bar bag alone is going to be more than that.

I don't have a single piece of clothing that I wear that weighs under 100 pounds. It's old. Because it's like tent material. It's enormous. It's like I have to wear something the size of a house. So we got an email from Ripken. He says, hey, I listened to your podcast with me, Mom, and she only had one thing to say about it. A bit too much swearing.

Hey, Ripken, fuck her. That's all I got to say about that. Fuck her. That's bullshit. Whatever. No, thanks for trying to turn your mom onto the show. I don't know that that's going to work ever. I don't know that anybody's mom has ever been turned onto this. As soon as you're like a mom,

you're like, uh-uh, no. We're way too responsible for this show. I have young ones to think of now. We got an email from Dan and Dan sent us three hillbilly god images that we are going to... Now, these are not something that we...

We're not sure we can use them for a t-shirt. This was initially what these came out of. But I tell you right now, before we decide on the Hillbilly God t-shirt, eventually these will be in the running. We'll think about what's going to happen with that later on. But one of the things that we will do with these right now is we will put them on Facebook. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take these images and load them to Facebook. They're very funny.

They're great. I love the banjo playing angels, and there's like a bucket. What do they call it? It's like a washtub bass that he's playing in the back. It's awesome. Like it's just awesome. And they're very funny. So we're going to post these on Facebook for now.

We're going to see if there's some way they can be turned into a shirt or something later on when we decide on the Hillbilly God t-shirt. But thank you very much, Dan, and thanks for tasking your wife in making these. They're great. We really thought they were very funny. Someone else sent something to show. Shane sent a couple

of pieces of music to the show. He says if we'd like to use some of these songs we've written that he's written. I'm going to probably keep these in my inventory of sounds that I'm going to use. So thank you for sending them. Obviously, you know, we already have a theme song that we've sort of had for many, many episodes. So I'd be reluctant to change that at this point.

But thank you for sending them in. And I will probably use some of these in the future if I ever need any kind of music underneath something. So thank you again. Tom, Jillian sends an email to us here about being a Jehovah's Witness or at least being surrounded by them. Yeah, he sent us an email saying that he's an atheist living with his family who are all Jehovah's Witnesses, and he still has to go door to door preaching to people about some shit he doesn't believe in anymore and that it's actively causing harm. He finds it frustrating. He credits our podcast for helping him keep sane.

No, that's not our podcast helping you keep sane. That's the incredible fortitude of being an atheist in a family of Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeah, no kidding, right? All the credit goes to you. So fucking bravo. And I'm sorry you've got to deal with that right now. Yeah, and to be honest, that's a tough situation to be in. And especially if your parents are taking care of you, they're calling the shots.

And Tom and I have always been sort of hardline on that. Yeah, absolutely. You don't ever try to buck the system while you're at home. You know, when you're, you know, out on your own and doing things on your own and, you know, that sort of thing, and you want to maybe make a pushback and say, look, I'm not doing the Jehovah's Witness thing. You may, maybe you don't want to call yourself an atheist eventually, but you might want to just be like, I don't want to do it as a witness anymore or something. I didn't mean that probably is just as bad, but you know, uh, you know, then maybe you could do it, but while you're living at home, you've got to follow their rules. And you know,

we just, we just hope that hope for the best for you. We got an email from dirty and a dirty just has this very difficult predicament. Um, basically she says that, uh, that she's a therapist at a government agency that provides court ordered intensive outpatient substance abuse treatment part of this treatment is requiring participants to attend AANA so the final

question is what can I do if a client if I have a client who opposes AANA I don't want to violate anyone's first amendment but at the same time I love all other aspects of my job and I don't want to make any waves. That's a very interesting question. It's a question Tom and I agonized for a few minutes over. dueling banjos rural area of southern illinois and you happen to have a client who is not religious they're used to putting up with religious intrusion in every other part of their life going to aa or na is not going to be any more onerous for them and if you have a dearth of other available options you just you just do what your job tells you to do at that point. I mean you don't have better secular options to push them into.

Corbin sends an email and says, I guess I missed it, but who's the fucking cook? I think he meant kook. Kook. But he's not a cook. His wife's the cook. That's the thing. In the soundbite you started the show with, it's in the notes. It's the first thing we started the show.

It's the last – I think it's the last note show with, it's in the notes. It's the first thing we started the show. I think it's the last note last time. It's in the notes. But if you're ever looking for a soundbite, lots of times it will be in the notes. So just go to the website, dissonancepod.com, click on the episode, and click on one of those links. Lots of times the links will show you what the thing is. And many times it's an embedded video, so it's actually easy to see. If you open up a news story and there's no video, probably not that one. We got an email from Josh.

Who wants us – I don't know. Maybe he doesn't like us. You know, Thomas has his own show. I don't know if you knew this. It says, I really like the recent show. Thomas really brings up the show. Really brings up the show. I know.

It's such a downer. Fuck you, Josh, you asshole. Almost makes it worth listening to. Hey, suck my ass, you jagoff. I might recommend having him join the show for good. But he would just probably take over and kick you two off. He already did that on his own show. He's done that twice on our show yeah i'm not gonna look i i recognize josh that cognitive

dissonance only needs one tom yeah like i'm not introducing my replacement like i made me dumb but i'm not stupid i'm not no but conan it's not a fucking leto conan o'brien thing here you know what i mean like this is uh you know we're not gonna we're not gonna bring him on the show he does say seriously, though. I know we're just fucking kidding with you, but it says seriously, though. He really contributes to the show.

Personally, I think it would be awesome to have him as a permanent addition. No, he's a great guest. He is a great guest. And we love to have him on the show, but, you know,

we're not getting the band back together. The band's already together. The band's already together. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is it. The band's already together. The band's already together. If it's not American Idol, the audience doesn't decide. Josh, this is as fucking good as it gets right here. Like, if you want to keep listening to the Thomas shows on repeat, that's cool. They're funny.

He's a funny guy. But, you know, this is it. This is as good as it gets. That's what I keep telling my wife. This is as good as it gets. You know what I keep telling my wife. This is as good as it gets. You know, Josh, this is the best you could do. That's what Tom tells his wife all the time. She's so sad.

I would be too. So we want to thank Hemant, the friendly atheist, for coming on our show and talking about his book, The Young Atheist Survival Guide, and also talking about his other projects and his blog, The Friendly Atheist blog. He's a great guy. He's a very intelligent guy. He runs a great blog, so you should check it out. Go to FriendlyAtheist.com or also if you want to check out a whole host of blogs, it's Patheos.com, and that's where a lot of these blogs live. There's a ton of blogs. We actually had Vicki Garrison

on. She runs a blog through Patheos. There's a bunch of people who do, so they're really great. You can take a look at them. But friendlyatheist.com if you want to find him, and then also pick up his book, because it's totally worth reading. It is. It's a good read, and it's fast read, too.

Despite the critical review that it should cost $3, it's worth eight. It's totally worth eight. And all the people who send us email all the time, all the high school students who send us email all the time, all the – I mean, heck, all the college students who send us email and say, hey, it's tough to be an atheist. Pick this book up. It's totally worth it because it will give you an opportunity to see how he suggests you go about being a friendly atheist, go about being somebody who can help the community, and it's totally worth the eight bucks to read on Kindle, and you should check it out. So that wraps it up for this episode of Cognitive Dissonance. Next time we're going to have hopefully a guest we're going to see. We're running the guest train right now. Until next time, this is Skeptic's Creed.

Credulity is not a virtue. It's fortune cookie cutter, mommy issue, hypno-Babylon bullshit. Couched in scientician, double bubble, toil and trouble, pseudo-quasi-alternative, acupunctuating, pressurized, stereogram, pyramidal, free energy, healing, water, downward spiral, brain dead, pan, sales pitch, late night info-docutainment. Leo Pisces, cancer cures, detox, reflex, foot massage, death in towers, tarot cards, psychic healing, crystal balls,

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Doubt even this. The opinions and views expressed in this show are that of the hosts only. Our poorly formed and expressed notions do not represent those of our wives, employers, friends, families, or of the local dairy council. you