Cold Case Files - I SURVIVED: If I Go to Sleep, I Might Not Wake Up

Episode Date: February 3, 2024

Paul Dennis Reid Jr., a country-star wannabe, spends nights robbing fast food joints and killing innocent workers. One of those workers, Jose Ramirez Gonzalez, recounts the night he faced off with Reid in a stock room and managed to survive.

An A&E original podcast. This episode contains descriptions of violence. Listener discretion is advised. Like, okay, he's got a gun. He's, he's obviously, he wants the money and I hope he just get the money and, and go, but it wasn't, it wasn't like that. In March of 1997, Jose Ramirez Gonzalez was 29 years old and had just moved to Nashville, Tennessee.

I came to Nashville, Tennessee to work with my brothers and cousins in construction. When I moved to Tennessee, I didn't speak, was nothing, no English at all. Just a few words. While I was waiting for work in construction with my brothers and cousins, we used to go to a couple blocks away, it was a McDonald's. So we used to go for breakfast Sunday morning

or Saturday morning sometimes. And it was one of those days I was talking to the manager in that restaurant. And my language in Spanish, because I didn't speak any English in that day. And I asked him if he's got an application for work. And he just said, yes, you want to work with me? I can teach you how you work in here, and I can give you an application right now. He said, yeah, that's fine. Jose was put on the evening shift and had only been working there for three days.

He was closing the restaurant with manager Ronald Santiago and his co-workers Robert Sewell and Andrea Brown. On the third day, Sunday night, we was working until I think they closed at 11. Andrea Brown. I was ready to go home, so I'm not going to let you and Robert go to their cars, and I'm going to stay here at the door with Andrea to lock the door. So I say, okay. So I start walking to the outside. The manager and Andrea, they were at the door. Well, we start walking to the outside. Well, I was walking outside behind Robert. I see someone coming to us for the drive-thru, for the canopy.

It was a guy coming to us with a gun. He was wearing a hat, a baseball hat, and something like long hair, like curly hair, all the way down to here. I'm sure he was wearing a wig. I just see the guy moving the gun, like telling us to go back to the store. When I hear the manager saying that, to come back in. In my language, so we, Robert and I, we start walking back to the store. We came inside and that's when the guy came in behind us with the gun.

This is I Survived, the podcast where we talk to people who've lived through the worst things imaginable in all the tragic, messy, and wonderful things that happen after survival. I'm Caitlin VanMol. So we start talking with the manager. I didn't get anything. I just followed the other guys going to the office with the money was on the telephone. So we start walking there. We were inside of the room,

and the guy stays by the door with the gun. Jose didn't understand what the man was saying, so he followed his co-worker's lead into the office. He was walking behind us with the gun, and we went to the room, and he said something to the manager, and he started trying to open the safe to get the money out. He was scared. He was swearing like crazy. He was scared, obviously.

When he opens it, he put all the money in a bag, coins and everything. And after that, that's when I just hear Andrea crying. And that's when I start thinking about do something, because obviously they were scared, and I was scared too, but I was thinking about what I can do, you know, like, what to do. But I was also thinking about, this guy is going to get the money and live. The man ushered them all out of the office and into the back room. We went to the back room when it was dark. It was dark. The room was dark, but I was able to see, you know, like not clearly, but he told us to lay in the ground. I just saw them on the ground with their face down. When the guy go to the manager and shoot him twice,

and I just see the lighting of the shot a couple times. And after that, he went to Robert and Andrea after. And after that, he came to me, but I wasn't face down. I was looking at him. When he point me, he point my face with the gun in my forehead. He start like clicking it for, I don't know, four or five times maybe.

That was the two seconds when I was thinking about like, okay, I'm gonna die I'm gonna I'm gonna be there I'm gonna they're gonna send me to Mexico and with my parents with my family I went back to all my life all what I did and all my life and one second thinking about my family, my kids. The gun didn't go off. That's when I was trying to do something. I fell back and I started fighting with the guy. And I felt something in my ribs and it was a knife or something.

But I was, after that I was unable to do anything. I just, I feel like loose. I didn't do nothing else, but I felt one more in the same side and two on the other side. By then he was holding me from my neck and he started stabbing me in the back of my head. In the struggle, the man also cut Jose's finger so severely it was barely still attached.

But I didn't really pay attention to that. It wasn't too important to me because I was fighting, and I knew it had more stuff than this. Actually, I was like, a finger is not important to me. It's more important to me my whole life. I didn't feel any pain, but I remember the last stab he gave me was on my face right here. He throw me to the ground. He was behind me.

He stabbed me three times in my back. I was thinking about like to play dead, to do something like that way he cannot see me moving or something, you about, like, to play dead, to do something, like, that way he cannot see me moving or something, you know, like... Jose tried to hold his breath so his attacker would think he was dead and finally leave the restaurant. I wasn't breathing or nothing, but when I hold my breath, that's when I feel the air coming out from my, from my staffs. It was like a little noisy because I used to stop for a little bit, like breathing or

something. When I opened my eyes, but I feel him still there behind, behind me. I see him, I was on the and i just see the uh the manager's face right next to me and i was actually my face and all his black i don't know for how long but i just hear something like a door like someone shut the door or something. And I was just afraid to move to see the guy was behind me still. But I just turned my head and I didn't see him anymore. I remember I stand up just for a couple seconds and I fell on the ground again. Jose knew he needed to get to the phone to call for help.

He couldn't stand, so he crawled, slowly, to the office to call 911. I was looking for the phone, and I didn't, I don't know why, but I didn't see it. And I fell on the ground, and I was feeling tired, like tired, like ready to sleep or something, but I just was trying to stay awake, you know? I just see the wire, phone wire, and I just pull it, and it comes right next to me. It was the phone. So I just tell 911 once, and someone answered it,

but I didn't say anything. I just hang up, and I dialed 911 again. Remember, at this time, Jose didn't speak any English, so he didn't think he'd be able to communicate with the 911 operator. Before that, I heard probably people talking about, if you dial 911, the police go to your house. That's what I knew. If I die in 9-1-1, they will know where I'm calling from.

Yeah, I just, I was thinking about calling my brother, and I did it. I called him, and somebody else answered the phone. I just tell him, tell my brother to come to the restaurant because someone robbed the restaurant and hang up. I was on the ground after that and I don't know for how long, a few minutes probably, and I was getting more tired, like ready to sleep, ready to close my eyes.

I used to start hearing noises around it. I hear the ambulance, I hear police, people walking, but I was just you know like waiting for them to come into the store to pick me up. And I just hear when they break the glass door to get in the store. And I remember when they came to the rooms, but they went to the other room where the other guys were dead. Jose had crawled out of the back room to the office to use the phone. And the first responders didn't see him at first. I was laying down with my face down on the ground, and I started moving my leg. That way they can see me. I was alive.

When someone came, I was moving my face. He saw me. He just went to start talking to me, and most people came, and they asked me for my name, and I said, Jose Antonio Ramirez. After that, they just put me in the ambulance with a lot of stuff in my hands, my nose, and they just tell me, don't move because they put me to sleep in the ambulance.

That was the other time when I started thinking about all my life, all the past, a few seconds. I go back to all what I did in the past, all my family, my kids, everything. Because I knew after I go to sleep, I'm going to probably wake up or not wake up anymore. But Jose did wake up. Two days later, in the hospital. That was like I was sleeping in a deep hole. I started like someone was calling my name,

like saying Jose, Jose. But I was feeling like i was in the hole all the way down like far away and uh finally when when when i hear one of those probably was the third or fourth time when when the person called my name that's when i i was trying to say, yeah, I'm here. But I was unable to talk. But obviously I started moving or I did something because the person who was calling my name, he said, Jose, don't move. My name is Juan Borges.

I'm a detective of police in Nashville. And your brother is right here next to me. As one of the few officers in the Nashville Police Department who spoke Spanish, Officer Juan Borges was Jose's primary contact with police. Jose was given police protection while he was in the hospital, and he ended up having four surgeries for his stab wounds that's when the when the pain started because i was unable to sleep probably for two or three weeks i asked her some something to sleep and i don't know why they give me a medication to sleep but because the pain i was unable to sleep. Jose eventually was able to rest, and his nurse saw an opportunity while he was recovering.

I never really, like, I wasn't interested to learn English. I started when I was awake in the hospital because I was unable to tell the the nurse for something like say I have I got pain I need a pill she's the one who start talking to me in Spanish and she's the one who start telling me how to say or what to say to her in case if I need something in English so that's when I started and I was like I don't know why but after everything happened I was I was learning a lot and I gotta I remember I tell my brother give me something that way I can I can tell the the doctor or the or the nurse what I need and he bring me a book from the

store the book the name of the book it was uh English and Spanish so all the sounds they were in Spanish so I start talking to the nurse and I was able to ask for something and I didn't know about in the hospital I was in the hospital I didn't know about I can order anything they want I didn't know that until I start talking to the nurse and I asked her is any way I can have an orange and I she said yeah just put in the order you can make an order say oh I didn't know that and I learned all my co-workers and McDonald's after I came back to McDonald's they all teach me how to say something the manager in that store she used to give me the headphones and put in my in my ears even if I was working in the kitchen just to hear how people talk how people ask for

orders for food and that's when I started, like, getting more and more and more. And I wasn't afraid to talk more and more and more while I was working. And I just, other thing I learned, it was every place you are is different words. But returning to work wasn't easy for Jose, after witnessing such a horrific attack. After all this happened, because I had a part of my therapy with my psychologist and psychiatric, part of it was go to the store, the same store, the same room at night time, the same room where everything happened right there. It was part of the therapy to not be afraid to go to restaurants. And after when I start working again, I was working at McDonald's probably

other two years, and not in the same one, different one. But it helps me a lot. I wasn't afraid anymore to be in restaurants or something. This McDonald's was the latest in a string of fast food restaurant robberies in the Nashville area. On January 2nd, 1997, a show niece had been robbed and night manager Charles Thoett Jr. had been stabbed 52 times. The surveillance cameras had no tapes in them, and the killer left no fingerprints. On February 16th, Steve Hampton and Sarah Jackson were both murdered at a Captain D's restaurant

just a few miles down the road from the McDonald's where Jose worked. There was a fingerprint at the Captain D's crime scene, but that wasn't much to go on. As the only survivor, Jose was the only one who had seen the killer. After I spoke with them about what happened that night, that's when they started showing me pictures, books of pictures, about if I see him. I never see him in those pictures. I probably, they probably show me probably 500 pictures, 600.

I never see him. And Juan, he was a person who came to the hospital with me to tell him how that guy looks like, you know, like to make a picture of him. And I explained him, but probably because the translation, it wasn't, I don't know, it was me or was the translation, the picture he did, it wasn't like close to him or something. A month after the murders at McDonald's, on April 23rd, 1997,

Michelle Mace and Angela Holmes were kidnapped from a Baskin Robbins in the same area. Their bodies were found the next day at Dunbar Cave State National Park. A red car was reportedly spotted the night of the 23rd at the park's visitor center. While I was in the hospital with the detectives, we watched the news that day and the news say there were two girls dead and the police found them a day or two days later, and I was like feeling that it was the same person who did all three, Captain D's, McDonald's, and Baskin-Robbins.

Clearly, fast food workers in Nashville had great cause to be scared about the killer targeting their workplaces. But Shoney's manager, Mitch Roberts, wasn't concerned. I was aware that recently there had been attacks at other fast food restaurants, and so it was getting a lot of pressure on the police at the time in the area to find this killer. And a lot of people talked about it. I had some of my customers would relate to me

and ask me questions when they came in the restaurant about if we had heard anything or how the investigation was going as far as we knew. A lot of policemen came in my restaurant and ate with me from time to time, so we kind of kept current on what was going on. We were such a high-traffic area, and it was, like I said, police came by and ate with us all the time day and night so it would it never occurred to me that we possibly could be a target Mitch lived in a rural area outside the city he lived on six acres of land and his house was set far back from the road it Well, it was quiet 95% of the time.

If you didn't know where I live, you wouldn't be able to find my house because we lived on the edge of a mailing address. We lived on the edge of a phone service. So you wouldn't have any idea where my house was based on that information. But on June 1st, 1997, Mitch received an unexpected visitor. I was waiting to go to bed. It was a Sunday night, about eight or nine o'clock, and I had to get up early the next morning. I had to be at the restaurant at four o'clock. My kitchen manager and I did inventory every Monday morning early before the restaurant opened and so I had to be there very early. So I was on the couch with my wife and

my daughter and my son. We were watching a little TV and my son was playing with our video camera and all of a sudden out of the, there was a knock on the door. And when my son turned around with the camera, there was Paul standing in the doorway waving at him. Paul Dennis Reed worked for Mitch at Shoney's, but recently had been fired. Mitch had no idea why Paul was at his house. Paul Reed was a loner type person. He didn't make friends easily at all. He kind of stuck to his self. And what was a little odd about him to me, and this plays into his scenario of tricking people and being something that he wasn't. When he spoke to you, when I said

anything to him, it was always, yes, sir, no, sir. Very respectful. Until he got mad the day at Shoney's and frisbeed a plate and it hit one of my dishwashers. And I sent him home. I fired him on the spot and sent him home. That was probably a few weeks to a month before he showed up that night at my house, knocking on the door. And I said, Paul, what's the purpose of your call? And he said, well, I wanted to see if you'd give me my job back. And about that time, my wife interrupted me and said, could I speak to you just a second in the other room? And so I said, Paul, hang on. And I walked in the other room with my wife, and she said, something's weird. Something's

wrong. You need to get rid of him. I said, okay. So I went back out in the living area and was talking to him. I said, Paul, it's kind of late and I've got to go to bed to get up early in the morning. Why don't you come by tomorrow or call me and we'll talk about your job then. I'll see what I can do. So I kind of led him towards the door and he walked out. And when we got out on the porch, that's when he told me that he could prove to me someone was stealing from the restaurant. He was trying to keep my attention. And I said, okay. So we started walking down to the car. I remembered that the police were looking in these serial killings. They were looking for a red sports car.

That's what was sitting in my driveway. So I started adding two and two and it came up four. And I just, I knew then that it was bad. I knew that this was the person they were looking for in the fast food murders. He handed me a steak from Shoney's. We had special packaging He handed me a steak from Shoney's. We had special packaging and handed me a steak and showed me, said,

someone's been stealing food from you. I said, well, you need to give me a call tomorrow and we'll go through this and I'll see about your job. So I turned and started to walk away. And he ran around in front of me and pulled a gun and said, told me, said, you're going to do what I tell you to do. And he handed me a pair of handcuffs. And I saidul if this is a joke it's not funny and he said it's not a joke

there's two guys behind your house that'll shoot you if you don't do what i tell you and i said well tell them take their best shot because i'm going in the house and i turned and walked away from him again and he just followed me up to the porch. And I thought, you know, I need to look and see what he's doing before I try to get back in my house, because my family was in there. And so when I turned around, he had pulled a knife, and he had a gun in one hand and a knife in the other. And I said, Paul, who do you think you're talking to and dealing with? I gave you your job. I helped you. What is it you need? He said, well, if you're not going to give me my job back, I need some money. I'm going back to Texas. And I said, well, I'll give you some money

and you can send it back to me after you get there and get your job. I just started talking. I don't think it was because I was so brave. I think it was because I was nervous. And that's what I knew to do. And so I started talking to him. And like I said, I've had a lot of time to think about this. Most of his victims were crying and pleading and begging for their life. I started talking to him like I was still his boss. And that kind of threw him off a little bit. And as it progressed, I thought one step at a time of what I was going to do to try to get away from him and keep him from getting in the house to my family. I knew if he got back in the house, he would kill them there,

take me to the store and make me open the safe, rob it, and he would kill me there at the store. So there again, whether it was brave or foolish, I don't know. And that's when I decided to pull the door open and turn on him and hit him and knock him backwards. I was going to fight him on the porch. I was not going to let him in the house with my family. I told my wife, hand me the gun, it's laying right there. Well, there wasn't a gun laying right there, but he bought it and left.

We got the door locked, called the local police, and they came out and was talking to me and interviewing me, and the phone rang. It was Paul on the phone. Yes, I was shocked. I didn't expect to hear from him again. So he started talking like, well, I'm sorry we had words on your front porch there. I didn't mean for us to get cross with each other. I said, Paul, you scared the hell out of my wife and me.

We need to talk about this tonight. You need to come back with each other. I said, Paul, you scared the hell out of my wife and me. We need to talk about this tonight. You need to come back to the house. And I talked him into coming back to the house. But when he came back, there was five or six different deputies waiting for him, and that's how they captured him. Paul Dennis Reed was arrested for threatening Mitch with a gun, but police didn't immediately connect him to the fast food murders. And I had to go over to the jail to sign some paperwork to arrest him.

And I told them then, I said, this is the serial killer they're looking for in Nashville. And at first they didn't believe me. And I looked around and there was a bulletin board with wanted posters on it. And I had to move some of them to get to his because it had been several months and they'd put new ones up. And I said, that's him. And I pointed to the picture. And they said, you really think so? I said, I know it is.

So I called Pat Pestiglione, the detective in Nashville. And I said, Pat, you need to get to Cheatham County. They've got Paul Reed, your serial killer, in a cell. And he said, what is he charged with? And at the time I said, I think assault. He tried to get in my house and tried to assault me. And he said, go charge him with everything you can so they'll hold him longer till I can get there. And so, I forgot exactly, but it was two or three charges that I'd filed against him to where he couldn't just make bond and get out. I had a friend that was in the bonding business and I called him and said, I don't have time to talk or explain right now. If Paul Reed calls you and wants a bond, do not, do not give him a bond. Call the other bond agents in Cheatham

County and tell them not to do the same. There was only two or three bond agents in Cheatham County, so he could quickly do that. Paul called and tried to get a bond. Luckily, I thought of that. If I hadn't thought of that, he would have got a bond and got out. After Mitch thought about it more, it became clear how calculated the attacks were. He had learned from working at fast foods that you didn't go to the bank on Sundays, most people didn't, and make deposits. So you had money there. So that was the opportune time to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, is go on the weekend when the most money is still there in the safe. Sunday nights is usually

a slow night and you get out earlier. You can go home earlier. So there's not a lot of people around. There's not a lot of customers or people or anything. And he would always go when the store had closed. But he had been casing out that Baskin-Robbins location in Clarksville for a long time. They found out and reported later on some of the news articles that he had been seen in the area at several different places, and he'd asked people about that. He was a planner. He didn't do anything quickly or spontaneously as much as he thought about it and planned it, premeditated, if you will, to the point of thinking through what time he was going and where he was going and why. Mitch also remembered a disturbing fact from before the murder started. Shoney's manager, Charles Thoet, the first victim, had called Mitch about hiring some of his workers. Charles worked at the one on Dickerson Road in Nashville.

He was the night manager. Unfortunately, he called me one day and asked me if I had any people that I could loan him or maybe I wasn't working full-time and they wanted more hours and I sent Paul to him and he hired him. I always really felt bad about that but I mean that's nobody knew nobody had an idea at the time that I did that that it was anything like that and like I said he was always respectful to me yes sir and no sir and was to charlie as far i i talked to charlie several

times after that and charlie said he was a real good worker and he appreciated me sending him to him and all that little did he know he would come back one night and charlie would just open the door and let him in and he killed him made him open the safe and robbed him and killed him there there. Now that they had a suspect in custody, Jose was called in to identify his attacker. In June 1997, they called me to go see more photos at the police station. They told me that they got a few pictures that way I can look at him and see if he's if he's someone I can

recognize or something yeah they bring six pictures they put those pictures on the table and they and they just left me alone with the pictures for I don't know probably 10 minutes for the first two three minutes I just watched the pictures you know carefully but I didn't I didn't see anything something I can recognize I watched the pictures you know carefully but I didn't I didn't see anything something I can recognize I watched the pictures you know carefully but I didn't I didn't see anything something I can recognize but uh after that I just pay attention to one picture in the middle it was three in the top three in the bottom three in the bottom the one in middle, it was the one I was looking at him. And I just got, I don't know, scared for a moment,

excited, or I don't know. I never feel those, I never, like, weird feelings, you know, like, I just, I just see him right there. And I just opened the door and I say, Juan, yeah, this is the guy right here. He said, you sure? I said, yes. Are you positive? I said, yeah. Can you sign something you got to sign when you agree that's him?

But are you positive? I said, yeah, 100% he is. A few days after his arrest for attacking Mitch, Paul Dennis Reed was charged in the murders at the Captain D's and McDonald's. He would go on to also be charged for murdering the workers at Baskin Robbins. The three attacks were tried separately. Jose testified in the trial for the McDonald's murders. It was hard, first time with the cameras in front of me. Donald's murders. right next to the first seat right there, but I walked behind him. I was, I don't know why, but I was scared

to see him in his face. And after five, six minutes later, I wasn't afraid too much, but he was there next to me. Mitch also testified, but couldn't bring himself to look at Reed. To be honest, I tried not to, not because I was afraid. I didn't want him to be able to see me or any expression on my face.

So I purposely looked away, like, I don't care about you. You're not worth looking at. He was getting enough notoriety from the press and everything else. I think he kind of liked that a little, too, as well. He, at one point, wanted to be a country music singer. And to be honest, he couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. But he had dreams. I won't say delusions of grandeur,

but as far as being a country music singer, that was delusions of grandeur. Paul Dennis Reed was found guilty in all three trials and was given seven death sentences. Relief. Feel relief. Not exactly for me. I was more relief for the families that were in the courtroom a few times.

And I saw them how they were. It was sad to see them crying sometimes in the courtroom. a few times and I saw them how they were. It was sad to see them crying sometimes in the courtroom. And I saw them happy when they said he was guilty and everything. That was when I feel relief more for them. And the detectives, they asked me if I want to go that day when they kill him. But I said, no, I don't want to go. I don't want to go see him die, no. I think Paul's motive in most of these situations was he wanted, he just wanted money easily. He didn't want to take months and months to work for it and try to save any, but that was surreal

that someone that worked for me could do that. But I've likened it, if you've ever watched a special on TV of a great white shark swimming by a cameraman, and then you look in their eyes, there's not a spark of life at all. It's dark black. That's the way Paul's eyes were. I don't think he had a soul or a conscience.

He was just evil. He was mean to the core. And that still, at times, kind of gives me pause to think about how so lucky we are to be here. Because if he had had his way, we wouldn't be like all the others that he murdered. Paul Dennis Reed died on November 1st, 2013, but not by execution. He died several years later in a prison hospital from pneumonia, of all things. That was way too easy a death for him compared to what he put these other victims through and the suffering that they went through. Today, Jose lives outside Boston in New Hampshire with his wife and daughter.

In construction in Boston, the most of the time, downtown Boston, union worker. Being a survivor is big to me. I feel like March 23, 1997, I survived and I'm an older person. I'm a new person now. I was born that day. I feel like that. Mitch is semi-retired and moved to San Antonio

to be closer to his son. He's lived here in San Antonio for about six years. And he and his wife, luckily, both have good jobs and they like them. They just built a new house. My wife and I decided they're not coming home anytime soon, so if they won't come to us, we'll come to him.

To me, to be a survivor of a serial killer, I can't hardly describe it. I feel so grateful and so lucky and so humble over it. The good Lord was just looking out for me. That's all I can say. I mean, how else do you get away from someone like that that's killed eight or 10 or 12 people? Most people aren't that lucky. Very few survive. And most of the time it's by luck. I sometimes wonder why me? Why was I that lucky? But I'm grateful that I was. And I'm grateful for my family, that we all survived. I Survived is hosted and produced by Caitlin VanMol and Law and Crime Network. Audio editing by Brad Mabee. For A&E, our senior producer is John Thrasher and our supervising producer is McKamey Lynn.

Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Sean Gottlieb, and Shelley Tatro. This podcast is based on A&E's Emmy-winning TV series, I Survived. For more I Survived, visit aetv.com. Copyright 2023, A&E Television Networks, LLC. All rights reserved.