Cold Case Files - I SURVIVED: The One That Killed My Husband

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

While Debbie is outside gardening, an unknown attacker hides in her home waiting for her to come inside. He abducts Debbie beginning a 5-day nightmare, during which Debbie will discover that she isn't this man's only victim. Sponsors:AMCN: Visit airmedcarenetwork.com and use offer CODE: ISURVIVED when you join.  PDS Debt: PDS DEBT is offering free debt analysis to our listeners just for completing the quick and easy debt assessment at www.PDSDebt.com/survived Take back your financia l freedom today by visiting PDSDEBT.com/survived  Angi: Download the free Angi mobile app today or visit Angi.com  Progressive: Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 29 million drivers who trust Progressive. Warner Bros: Listen to Deadly Nightmares wherever you listen to your podcasts 

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AutoTrader. Hi, I'm Caitlin VanMol, host of I Survived. As you may have noticed, we're relaunching season one. We love this show so much. AutoTrader. Debbie was already in therapy when she was attacked, but that therapist didn't specialize in PTSD, so she found one that did. So she was seeing her original therapist and her PTSD specialist at the same time. But I think that just shows it can take sometimes more than one resource or one type of therapy to help you deal with what happened, and that's fine. And you'll hear all about Debbie's story in episode four, The One That Killed My Husband. This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault and violence. Listener discretion is advised. Also, a note about this episode.

We interviewed Debbie over Skype, so the quality isn't as good in some places as it is in others. There's no reason why I should be talking to you today. And I have been reminded by law enforcement when I speak for them that, Debbie, he would have killed you. Debbie and Nino Puglisi met in their early 20s. Debbie was just 21 and he was 24. We met in a nightclub and it was back in 1970 that in the nightclub, he went up to my friend, Bill Sharp, and he said, are there any nice girls that I could take home to mom? And Bill pointed me out and said, Debbie's a really nice girl. And he came over to me and we talked and our relationship bloomed. And we were married in May of 1973.

Debbie and Nino were approaching their 25th wedding anniversary in April of 1998. Nino was, first of all, a family man. And he was, you know, a wonderful husband, father, and a very talented musician. He often referred to his gift of music as a gift from God, saying that he was a devout Catholic. He never missed church, loved to cheer his kids on when the twins became runners in high school. He never missed a sporting event. They had twins, a boy, Michael, and a girl, Melissa, who were both in college. My kids, let's see, Michael went to University of Delaware, so his campus was not too far from

our home. And Melissa attended East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina. I had worked for the Delaware Hospice as a nurse, and at the time, my position was on-call nurse. So I would be on call for 16 hours, three nights in a row. But for me, it was very rewarding. I think I'm comfortable, you know, with my immortality. And I was there for people at the very end. I was able to bring families together, let them know that the end is near and support them and most importantly, control the patient's pain and symptoms so that they could transition peacefully. But on April 20th, 1998, death would enter Debbie's life in a horrible new way. This is I Survived, the podcast where we talk to women who've lived through the worst things imaginable

and all the tragic, messy, and wonderful things that can happen after survival. I'm Caitlin VanMol. It was a spring day. I decided that I was going to plant rose bushes. When Nino arrived home, he parked the car and came over to me. And he was so pleased that I was planting the rose bushes because I'm really not a gardener. So he went on into the house and then I said, hey, Nina, would you please call out to me about 5 of 4

so I can go in and call my nursing supervisor to get my assignment for the night. I sensed that it was getting very close to 4, and thinking nothing of it, I then brushed myself off, walked into the house, and all of a sudden, and I didn't see this person, but I was attacked viciously by someone striking me on the left side of my head. I fell to the ground. I was not knocked unconscious. However, I knew that someone was in my home demanding, where is your money? I was frozen. I could not believe this was happening. I was in shock.

I had no idea where my husband was. And I was wondering, why isn't he coming to my rescue? But at the same time, I'm thinking, Nino, help me. Nino, stay away. I don't want him to be involved in this. I was only on the ground for a few minutes because he then immediately started to tie. He bound my wrist, my ankles. And at that point, he moved me, kind of dragged me down probably 15 steps, and at the bottom of the steps, we have a concrete floor, and he threw me face down. While I was lying on the floor, he started to pull down. I had sweatpants on.

He pulled my sweatpants down and my underwear, and then he raped me from behind. After he raped her, the man dragged her out of the basement and covered her with a quilt. And I remember thinking to myself, thank God it's over, because I heard the footsteps moving away from me. I heard the door close. And then, of course, my first thought is, where is Nina? All of a sudden, I'm being gathered up in the quilt, and now I'm looking up again, seeing this person, and he's not speaking to me, but he's carrying me into the foyer of our home, where I could see a car backed up to my front door. He held a knife to my throat, and he threatened me.

He did not want me to scream. He took her outside and put her in the trunk of his car. When I heard the car moving, I thought to myself, Debbie, the only way you will have any hope of surviving is to totally try and get the ties loosened. Because when he stops the car, what I had to do was to try and make a run for it. So I'm in the car. I'm loosening my ties with the plan of escaping when he lifts the hatchback. I thought, okay, he's going to open that trunk,

and I'm going to do everything I can to kick and scream and run. It wasn't until he opened the hatchback, and I realized that I'm in a garage. I don't know where, but I'm trapped. And now he's carrying me. And the next thing I know, he's throwing me face down on a bed. He noticed that my hands were untied. He could tell that I was trying to escape. So he punishes me. He pulls my pants down again. And this time, he sodomizes me. He then turns me over, rapes me vaginally,

and I pleaded with him. But I found that when I pleaded with him to stop, he laughed, and he just continued. So I learned early on that this is an evil man, and that I had to just take it. He was not a person that I could talk to. He was angry. And it appeared to me that he was under the influence of drugs. He took ropes and bound my wrists so I could not move them. He bound my ankles. He put ropes above my knees. And then he placed another tie from my wrists to my ankles. He put ropes above my knees. And then he placed another tie from my wrist to my ankles.

He placed a washcloth in my mouth with duct tape going around my head. He blindfolded me and left. As the night went on, I heard two gunshots. And I did not know that he had a gun. He had held a knife to my throat, but this was when I learned that he had a gun. Day two, Tuesday, April 21st. The next morning, he said to me, oh, my God, he said, I thought that the cops had found me. He explained to me that there were headlights that had shown into the front window. And he assumed that it was the police and shot two gunshots, shattered the front window.

And all he could think about was, I don't want the neighbors to see. And he went into another room and turned on either the television or the radio. I did hear, and I get goosebumps, but I heard an announcer say that Anthony Puglisi had been shot and killed and his wife is missing. And as I was trying to even absorb the fact that my husband is dead, because it hadn't even occurred to me that this murder had happened, the door opens, and my husband's murderer opened the door and said, I'm sorry, I had to kill your husband, shut the door and left. To me, to have a person do what he did to me, to learn that he had shot my husband, now I'm convinced that I'm next. I knew that I could not cry.

Even though the tears weren't coming, if I were to be a blubbering person, this evil man would hurt me more. So I held my emotions in, and it wasn't long afterwards that he opens the door, he comes in, he releases my ankle ties so that he can rape me yet again. Immediately afterwards, he replaced the washcloth in my mouth with duct tape, blindfolded me, retied me, and said to me, I really should go to work. How many of you wish there was a better solution to paying off your debt? I really should go to work. finally take initiative with your debt. Stop waiting and start saving with your own custom debt savings options from PDS Debt. PDS Debt is giving our qualified listeners a free debt savings analysis just for completing the 30-second online debt assessment at pdsdebt.com slash survived. You'll receive a full breakdown on how to save on interest each month and the quickest way to take care of your debt. If you're making payments every month on your debt and your balances aren't going down, this program is for you. PDS Debt rolls all your

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on brand and solve font crimes at Canva.com, the home for every brand. The man would periodically leave to go get food or go to work, but he would randomly come back early to make sure Debbie wasn't trying to escape. He'd say he was going to work, but come back 20 minutes later to make sure she was still where he left her. While he was gone, all I want to do is get back to my children. I knew they had to be agonizing. Number one, they're grieving for their father. They're wondering about mom. And my heart was bleeding. I can't even describe as a mother how I felt. And all of my thoughts were with them. As the night went on, and I'm wondering what to expect when this person returns, the door opens. And he did something out of character.

He took my ties off. He removed my blindfold. He took the washcloth out of my mouth, turned the light on. And at first, of course, I'm stunned because I really hadn't seen light. So he started to talk to me like a person. And he said to me, I'm thinking about letting you go, but I'm afraid to let you

go because if I do, you'll be able to describe the house to the police. And I said, no, sir. And this is when I started calling him sir. I wanted him to like me. I would always refer to him as sir. I tried to show him respect. I tried to let him know that I would be a good girl, that I wouldn't try to escape. I would give him time to reconsider letting me go. So I said, sir, you put me in the trunk of your car. I had no idea where you were taking me. I can't describe the outside of your home, the area where you brought me. And I offered him a suggestion. I said, why don't you blindfold me again, put me back in the trunk of your car, and just drive off and leave me?

And he said, I can't do it. And, of course, hearing that was so discouraging. But what he said to me was, you'll be able to describe my flocked wallpaper in the dining room. And then he made a statement that didn't make sense. He said, you know, if I get rid of all the drugs in the house and the police do find me, then I won't get more than 10 years. And kind of bells went off, and I'm thinking, I'm not dealing with an intelligent person here,

because if he thinks he's going to get 10 years for murder, for kidnapping, for rape, then he's not a bright person. And I kind of switched to survival mode. I allowed myself to think, maybe, Debbie, you can get out of this. And he began to trust her. That night, he didn't gag her or put the blindfold on. But this wasn't better for Debbie. He put me on a king-size bed that I assumed was the bed that he sleeps in and laid down next to me.

And I had to sleep next to Nino's murderer. Day three, Wednesday, April 22nd. On Wednesday morning, he took my ties off, and he said, I would like you to take a shower. But of course, by, you know, Wednesday morning, I've been in these clothes, I've urinated in these clothes, and I mean, this is, again, dehumanizing. So I told him, I said, I'm too weak to stand in the shower. Is it okay that I take a bath? He made me undress in front of him. And I got into the bathtub. And I was so weak. But I washed my body the best I could. And then he said to me, aren't you going to wash your hair? And I said, sir, I said, my wrists are so sore that it was difficult for me to raise my arms to do that. Well, he washed my hair.

And to have my husband's murderer just washing my hair, it was horrible. It was just horrible. And then when I got out of the tub, I had to put his clothes on. I had to put his sweatpants, his t-shirt, because of course my clothes were destroyed. So now I'm cleaned up and he rapes me again. Day four, Thursday, April 23rd. On Thursday morning, he got up, and he surprised me by saying he wanted to feed me. I said, you know, why don't you, while you're out getting the food, buy a newspaper so we can see what's going on? And he agreed.

So we ate, and I was careful about how I talked to him, but he showed me the newspaper. The newspaper said it was like trying to find a needle in a haystack. They had no clues, which was, of course, very upsetting to me. But I didn't want to let it show. And when he read it, he said, you know, I've committed the perfect crime. They don't have any idea who I am, where you are. And he was proud of himself. Day five, Friday, April 24th.

He handcuffs her instead of tying her hands with ropes. He didn't blindfold me. He did put the washcloth in my mouth with the duct tape and told me he was going to work. And my gut said, because of the type of person he is and because this is different, he might not believe that I wouldn't try to escape. So I decided to wait about an hour because he made a point of saying, I'm leaving now and the door shuts. So I'm on the bed, trying to lie very patiently.

And it was about an hour. And I heard the door open just slightly. And the door shut. And I thought, okay, I've passed the test. Debbie, now you have to make a decision. You have to try and get out of this. So I shuffled. I don't know how, but with my hands cuffed behind my back,

I opened the door, not knowing if he would be on the other side. I went through the door, into the hallway. The house is totally dark. And I knew from being able to walk around the house that his dining room was to the left. So I shuffled, and again, God was with me. On the dining room table was a phone, a cordless phone. With my hands behind my back, I can't explain it, but I picked up the phone. And as a hospice nurse, I was very familiar with using the phone a lot. I knew where the 911 was, and I actually punched 911. Police, call an ambulance.

Please help me. I'll be quickly seen. Please help me. Okay, what's the problem, ma'am? This man kidnapped me and killed my husband. Where are you now? I'm in his home. I have handcuffs on my hands and on my feet. Oh, Lord have mercy. Oh, my God.

Where is he now? Yes, where is is he now? He's come. Yes, where is the man now? He's at work, I think. But he might come back. So you're there alone now? Yeah, but he might get here before you. They're on the way, man.

Just stay on the phone with me until they get there. Oh, my God. Okay, we're pulling up outside now, so if you hear something, that'll be one of the officers. You promise? Yes, ma'am. Help me. Just stay calm. Help me.

Just stay calm. He knows you're there. All of the emotions that I had suppressed through the week just came... I lost it. Help me! Help me! Help me! Help me! Police traced her call and arrived at the house in less than six minutes. She was rescued. Of course, when I was rescued, at the time I was in captivity, I wouldn't allow myself to feel emotion. I found out that Nino had been murdered on the second day of my captivity. And I was shocked and unable to grieve because I felt in my rapist, when he would come in

to see me, if I showed emotion, he would hurt me more. And upon rescue, it was bittersweet because I'm grieving the death of Nino, but I'm also feeling relief and joy of being reunited with my children, my family. But then I had a lot of physical injuries and psychological injuries that I had to deal with. She was taken to the hospital to have her injuries treated and to have her evidence collection done. I have to say that when I was rescued, the police were wonderful and they always have been. I only had one negative experience, but what happened was the police knocked the door in. And of course, they immediately took me to Christiana Care, the nearest hospital. However, the two detectives

that processed my home, the crime scene, now came to me. My body is a crime scene. So they came into the room, and this was just when the sexual assault program had started at the hospital. It was only nine or ten months old. And they had called the nurse examiners in, but they had not arrived. So the two male detectives had me stand on a white sheet and disrobe. And to me, that was another victimization. While Debbie was being held, her family had all come in to be there for her kids and were now there to help Debbie as well. You have to remember that my children were victims as well, and they were unable to tell me much about what they endured during the time that I was held in captivity. My family came from

Florida, Virginia, and New Jersey to be with them, And my family, more or less, were with them 24-7. They were able to help Melissa with the funeral arrangements. They even had a chair, an empty chair that they were going to place with a rose, with some of my personal effects, to honor me. But to this day, they are unable to really discuss the situation with me. But what I'm happy about is they each have their own counselor

that helps them get through it. But a large part of me prays that someday they will want to talk to me. One of the things that motivated Debbie to act when she did was attending Nino's funeral. Processing Nino's death was very, very difficult.

I don't think that I would have healed as well as I did if I was not there for his funeral and also to support Michael and Melissa. As far as really dealing with his death, that couldn't happen until after the criminal trial, because my psychologist warned me that I had so much healing to do and preparation for the trial that losing my husband wouldn't become a reality until we got through the trial. And she was so right. After the funeral, Debbie went with her dad and stepmom to their house in Florida. While she was there, she got some upsetting news

from the prosecutor on her case. The prosecutor, Jim Ropp, we had a hot and cold relationship. And while I was in Florida, he called to inform me that my case would not be an open and shut case. And from someone who was very naive about the criminal justice system, it was very upsetting to me because they found me in his house. He confessed and I couldn't understand why this was going to be a difficult case. And so I became very emotional. And because of our conversation, I no longer wanted to deal with him. So I mostly met with co-counsel. And one of the things I can say in hindsight that hurt me the most was because of my distrust,

I did not use victim services. Now I have such praise for the people who work in victim services, and I'm so sorry that I did not use them because I think I could have been better helped by using the services. And instead, I used my psychologist, I used my co-workers, and my family for my support. Debbie's family was incredibly supportive, but didn't really want to talk about what happened, which was all Debbie wanted to do. It was very difficult because they just wanted

to bury the pain and I wanted to purge the pain. And the only person who actually listened to me at the time was my sister Darlene. We went out one afternoon and we're sitting in the restaurant and she started talking to me and allowed me to talk about the ordeal. And I started crying. I thanked her because she actually helped me to share my story. I think the reason that not only do my family feel they need to protect me, but they're protecting themselves because they haven't dealt with their own emotions, their own grief. And they do want to suppress their feelings and they just don't want to talk about it

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You invited me, Extra Man, on your summer road trip, which is lucky for you because about five minutes in, this happens. I'm hungry. Luckily, there's a clean, modern Extra Mile at the next exit with fizz fountain drinks and sweet and salty snacks, ready to satisfy even the pickiest of road trippers. Pass the candy. So you can pull up, stop in, and get back out there. Are we there yet? Extra Mile convenience stores at select Chevron and Texaco locations. We'll be that hard. You can still get fast delivery through DoorDash. Get groceries and anything else you could need from your neighborhood with DoorDash.

Place your first order now at DoorDash.com or the app and get a $0 delivery fee. Terms apply. Canva presents True Crime of Design. In the office, Maya spots something unusual in the presentation. What's this? It was an off-brand font, her co-worker explains. I added the font. I thought it was fun. It was not. Maya solved it with Canva.

Open up Canva, one click, and the font is on brand. Easy! Stay on brand and solve font crimes at Canva.com, the home for every brand. Debbie had already been in therapy to help her through the loss of her mother and her kids going off to college the year before. I had started to go to a Dr. Foddy. He helped me not as much with the PTSD, but he knew my history. He understood more about me in the beginning than Dr. Dansu. Dr. Constance Dansu was recommended to me by my son's running coach's wife. She knew of Dr. Dan Su and felt that she was the best person because she specialized in PTSD, I actually would go to see Dr. Dan Su every week and I would see the other psychologist, Dr. Faudy,

about every other week. So I had intense counseling. Debbie spent the summer with her dad and stepmom in New Jersey, but returned to her house in August after the floors had been replaced and all the damage from the attack had been fixed. She started working again. And around this time, Bill Sharp came back into Debbie's life. Bill was the one who introduced Debbie and Nino. He was the one who knew a nice girl you could bring home to mom. I had a meeting with my personal attorney. He had some information for me about the upcoming trial. So I met with him and I became very upset.

And Bill, in one of his phone calls, he had called upon my return to Delaware to offer support, told me that he had a nightclub in Wilmington. And so I knew where he worked. So I think my car was on autopilot. I just drove and I'm very upset. And I saw Bill outside of the club because he was getting a beer delivery. And so he saw me, you know, in a really bad state of mind and took me around the corner to a little restaurant. We sat at this corner table, and for an hour and a half, Bill listened to me. Listening is the best gift you can give anyone.

For an hour and a half, he listened. He didn't judge. I just thought, oh my gosh, what a gift. We started to date after that. So it was six months after Nino's death. And a lot of people felt that it was too early. I didn't want to tell Michael or Melissa that I was seeing someone. And I was right. I mean, once they found out, probably near Thanksgiving, they were not very happy about it. And Melissa actually made a comment, you know, I'm not going to call him dad.

And I said, you certainly are not going to call him dad. He is not a replacement for your father. I said, this is Bill, and he just wants to be there for me. Debbie had talked about Bill in therapy, and Dr. Dansu wanted to meet him. Dr. Dansu suggested that Bill come in for counseling with me. Her main purpose, she said, was so he could learn how to deal with my behaviors when I had a trigger, whatever. And also I had expressed to her that I didn't see how any man would want me because a woman who has been raped feels like they're damaged goods. And she wanted, of course, to dispel that right away.

So just one session with Bill, she told me, she said, Debbie, she said, you know, just watching the two of you interact, it would be wrong of you to listen to anyone. She said, just enjoy, you know, what you have and just don't listen to anyone else. So it was, it was very helpful. And he would go once a month after that, just to see Dr. Dan Su, maybe tell her some things that I, you know, behaviors that he saw of me that maybe I was unaware of. Bill helped Debbie so much and encouraged her to do her therapy homework to prepare to face her attacker at the trial. Donald Flagg was pleading insanity, so Debbie was going to have to testify. The trial was exactly one year later in April of 1999. And I had cognitive behavioral therapy with Dr. Dan Su. And basically what I did during my therapy sessions, I would have homework where I would

have to make audio tapes. I would describe the ordeal on the tapes. And then I would have to rate my feelings one to five, one being very upset, five, maybe feeling much better. And so I would listen to that. And in the beginning, I was hesitant to do my homework. And Bill would say to me, Debbie, you need to listen to the tapes. And he would listen to them with me. The second one was to look at his picture to kind of desensitize me so that when I went into the courtroom I would be able to face him. The third was to say his name and I would refer and still refer to Donald Flagg as the asshole. And Dr. Dan Su told me that she had cleared her calendar for the day that I testified. And if I felt like calling him an asshole to look at her and she would redirect me. So that was difficult.

But I feel that with my cognitive behavioral therapy, it made me a stronger person. And in a way, it hurt me because I walked in there strong. And during my testimony, I was not a tearful widow. And I think the jury saw me as someone who was not grieving appropriately. That was hurtful to being judged by the fact that I didn't cry. The only time I teared up is when they played the 911 tape, and when it comes to I want my children, I want my children, it took hundreds of times of listening to that before I did not tear up. But I must say that I dared Donald Flagg to look at me. I was brave enough to look at him,

but he would put his head down. Debbie was present for most of the trial. She was warned not to show emotion while sitting in the gallery, but she was growing increasingly frustrated at the defense. I had no respect for the public defender, Brendan O'Neill. I know that he had a job to do and he was trying to prove that Donald Flagg was mentally ill. I felt that the defense went fairly easy upon me. But when I did react at one point, when the Brendan O'Neill kept referring to Donald Flagg as the bird with a broken wing, I had heard it one too many times and I got up and left the courtroom before I became emotional. The next day in the newspaper headlines, Debbie Puglisi stomps out of court, out of the courtroom. Well, that was the only time that I was threatened not to reenter the courtroom. The prosecutor called to say, shame on you. And I had to wait until Monday to hear the judge's decision whether I

could go and attend the trial. So on the following Monday morning, I went up to his chambers. I felt like a school child. I went into his chambers, and he was very nice, but he was also very firm. And he said, Mrs. Puglisi, I will allow you to go back into the courtroom, but you must refrain yourself from showing too much emotion. So how are you supposed to act? Donald Flagg was found guilty. Delaware had the death penalty in 2009, but the state has since found it unconstitutional. Sentencing was recommended by the jury, but ultimately decided by the judge.

The jury in this case recommended life in prison and not the death penalty. The judge could have overruled that and still sentenced Fleck to death, but Judge Norman A. Barron gave him eight consecutive life sentences plus 166 years. For the first 10 years of his sentence, Barron also stipulated that Flagg would be held in solitary confinement every April 20th through 25th, the five days he held Debbie. Initially, I felt the sentencing was unfair because if anyone deserved the death penalty, Donald Flagg did. In fact, he was noted many times as the poster boy for the death penalty. However, I have since talked to the judge, and this is years later, and I know the reason that he did not choose the death penalty. He did not want to put me through the appeals.

And of course, now Delaware no longer has the death penalty. I have now come to peace with the sentencing. I feel it's something that I need to let any anger go. It's not something I want to be controlling over me. And I really love the way he stated it about how the only way he will leave prison is with his hands crossed on his chest in a pine box. It's very satisfying to me that I can be assured he can no longer harm me or anyone else. Before Debbie was rescued, her disappearance in Nino's murder was a big story in the news. Some of the coverage didn't really sit well with Debbie. I was very upset by that.

Actually, the day of Nino's viewing on a Sunday, April 26th, there were three pages with large pictures of my children and I felt betrayed. I was not happy with the verbiage of the article. There were hurtful things being said, and I just didn't want to be out there. I didn't want to be in any kind of news, local, national, whatever. I had to deal with that for a very long time, and basically I took the tragedy and became triumphant. So I no longer hid. In fact, during the trial, I let the reporters know that if they have something to say, they say it to me, and they need to get the story right. Debbie wanted to be able to tell her story in her words. I never chose to write a book. Marjorie Preston approached my personal attorney

and asked him if I could meet with her about the possibility of writing a book. We met in his office and this was before the trial. And of course, I didn't make any quick decisions. Thinking about it, Marjorie is also a rape victim. So I decided she would be the best person to work with because she understood my feelings. And working with her was cathartic because she had some of the very same feelings that I had. The only difference was Marjorie still labeled herself as a victim when we were working and I had already moved to survivor when the trial ended so when we did begin to work we cried together and we healed together and at the end of reading of writing the book she said

Debbie I am now a survivor and I felt so proud of her to be able to inspire and empower her to become a survivor. Shattered, Reclaiming a Life Torn Apart by Violence was published in 2003. I had to become stronger physically and emotionally before I could actually reclaim my story. When I wrote Shattered, that title was not my choice because I refused to be a shattered woman. And I had to fight for the subtitle, Reclaiming a Life Torn Apart by Violence, because I really didn't want to be that shattered woman. I wanted people to know that I had picked up the pieces of my life and have moved on. I'm so proud of the book. It has been used by many counselors and is also required reading in a criminal justice class called victimology. So I have been to many universities

and have lectured to the students and have answered any questions that they have. But my main purpose in wanting to do that is to show them that you need to become victim-focused and they need to know how victims feel. Debbie also started volunteering for different victim services groups. In the past, I've worked for the Sexual Assault Network of Delaware, and I was actually on the 911 Enhancement Board. The work I've done in the past also with Contact Lifeline, which of course helps women who are raped. I support with all of my heart. And having said that, in 2007, I was awarded through the Office of Victims of Crime

the Special Courage Award, and I couldn't be more proud of that. I've actually gone into the prison system because I fully believe people that are, you know, first offenders or whatever, mostly, you know, your drug addicts need to be rehabilitated. So they need to hear my story because drugs, of course, were involved in my case. So that is something in the most recent past I've done is to go with my friend Kim, who founded Victims Voices Heard, and speak to the prisoners. Kim also served as the mediator while Debbie was exploring restorative justice,

where victims and offenders are brought together to discuss the attack, helping victims get answers they might not have gotten during the trial, and helping offenders understand the impact of what they've done. And so she met with Donald Flagg and we had lunch several days after. And she told me, Debbie, I'm not sure if you should meet with him because I was uncomfortable the entire time that I met with him. I was very upset at the time because I felt that I was strong enough that I had the courage to go one-on-one with this man. So she said, well, Debbie, what question were you going to ask him?

And I told her that I wanted to know if indeed he planned to kill me. And she said it was chilling. He just matter of factly said, yes, I was going to kill her. Today, Debbie doesn't think of herself as a victim anymore. In my eyes and from my experience, a victim is someone who is victimized and is still suffering, whether it be physical or emotional pain, and they're unable to let go of any anger or resentment. And once you receive help, whether it be therapy or whatever, and are able to let go of that pain, I believe you can survive. And so I moved on to Survivor by choice, just like Marjorie did. Now, if you actually, like many victims, myself and many of my victim

friends, go on to help others to feel that call. And I feel that God had a plan for me. I do have my faith and my spirituality. And I feel that my life was spared. and I had a calling to reach out to victims, either by my book, my speaking, my lectures, and empower them to thrive. And that's what a thriver does, is to give back to others. Debbie married Bill on July 21st, 2000. Her twins, Michael and Melissa, have a good relationship with him. I think that after probably knowing him for several months, they came to realize that he has my best interest at heart. He truly loves me. And Michael actually told me that he was relieved

because he knew that I had someone to take care of me. So they get along very well. The 20th anniversary of her attack was in April of 2018. One of the funny things, you never know how you're going to feel on the anniversary of April 20th. I always surprise myself. I didn't think 20 years was going to be any different than 18 or 19, but it really was difficult for me. We usually spend the anniversary in Aruba.

I like to get out of the States, but I do have a habit of kind of replaying the day. And once I get into the evening, I kind of let it go. But I can't help but think between 3 and 3.30, I hear a gunshot in my head. And that's a trigger. That's PTSD. That's something that will always be with me for the rest of my life. And for people who tell victims to move on, get over it, need to know that that is not what you say to someone who is in pain. I think when people listen to me, the most important thing I want people to know is there is life after tragedy, that it's important to deal with any pain that you're experiencing. Try not to hold it in because it just because it's a wound that never heals. If you don't believe in counseling, find some type of support person,

whether it be clergy, whether it be a good friend. It's just so important. The main reason that I am here to tell my story of survival today is because I allowed my family to take care of me, which is not easy for a nurse to do. Nurses are caregivers, but I truly want to help victims out there, to empower them, to take their lives back, to become a survivor, to become a thriver, and to enjoy life. To speak to someone at the Rape,use Incest National Network, call 1-800-656-HOPE or 1-800-656-4673. You can also live chat with someone at rain.org. That's R-A-I-N-N dot O-R-G. I'm Kaitlin VanMol, host and senior producer. Our audio engineer is Kelly Kramarik. Our producer is Scott Brody, and our executive producer is Ted Butler. Special thanks on this episode to McKamey Lin. I Survived was originally produced by NHNZ. To hear more I Survived, please subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. See what hit blockbusters are streaming free this month during Popcorn Summer Movies on Pluto TV.

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