Cold Case Files - I SURVIVED: This is Terror Part II

Episode Date: March 2, 2024

Tali Shapiro describes her chilling abduction and assault when she was 8 years old. Rodney Alcala, the man who attacked her, would come to be known as "The Dating Game Killer."Rosetta Stone: Don’t put off learning that language - there’s no better time than RIGHT NOW to get started! For a very limited time, I Survived listeners can get Rosetta Stone’s Lifetime Membership for 50% off! Visit rosettastone.com/survivedProgressive: Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

An A&E original podcast. This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault and violence. Listener discretion is advised. This episode is also part two of our previous episode, This is Terror. If you haven't heard that one yet, go back and listen. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the gentleman that saw me hesitate to get in the car. And allegedly, he was telling himself he was doing the most stupid thing he'd ever done in his whole life. And I wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for him.

In 1968, Tally Shapiro was a little girl living in Los Angeles with her parents and her older brother. So in 1968, our house had burnt down on Kings Road off of Sunset, and we were living at the Chateau Marmont. And normally I had a school bus that I'd caught to go to school, but because we were living at the Chateau Marmont, I was supposed to catch the public bus, and I didn't like the public bus. So I would get up extra early and just walk to school. I'm not sure my parents were aware that I walked to school, but I did let them know that I didn't care to go on the public bus by myself. But I think they assumed I was getting on the public bus. On September 25, 1968, Tally started out for school like any other day. I'm walking down Sunset towards my school and this guy

stops and is trying to engage in conversation with me. I'm trying to blow him off as best as eight-year-old little girl can. I say something that seems silly to me as in like oh I'm not supposed to talk to strangers and he goes oh I'm not a stranger I know strangers. And he goes, oh, I'm not a stranger. I know your parents. And he looked young. I don't remember exactly his description, but it's like, well, he could be somebody my parents knew. And then he offered me a ride.

So I did get in the car, even though I was hesitant. And as we were driving, he asked me what time my school started. I obviously was honest and let him know what time my school started. So obviously was honest and let him know what time my school started. So he knew he had a lot of time. It was at this point he mentioned we stopped by his place

because he wanted to show me this beautiful poster. At which time all my hairs on my arms stood up and I wanted to jump out of the car because this wasn't what he had said we were going to do. He was going to take me to school and now we were going to stop by his place. So no, it wasn't part of the plan. This is I Survived, the podcast where we talk to people who've lived through the worst things imaginable in all the tragic messy and wonderful

things that happen after survival i'm caitlyn van maul after riding in the car and arriving at his residence, pretty much after walking through the front door, I don't recollect anything. So one would assume that I was attacked pretty much after walking through the front door. When Tally had gotten in the car, a man nearby was watching and thought the whole scene looked suspicious. So he followed them. When he saw the little girl go with the man into a house, the witness called the police. Police knocked on the door, and initially, the man inside said he was just getting out of the shower and needed a minute to get dressed.

But then they heard the sounds of someone struggling and murmuring and decided to kick down the door upon entering they found tolly covered in blood from a blow to her head with a metal bar across her neck they initially thought she was dead but after they removed the metal bar from her throat she started to breathe after i grasped for air he'd he'd actually stepped over me that's i've heard that's from his, he'd actually stepped over me. I've heard from his words that he actually stepped over me. And that's when I grasped for air. And he realized that I was still alive.

Yeah, he assumed I was dead. While police were tending to Tali, the man had fled out the back door. They found his wallet in the house and the license inside belonged to Rodney Alcala, the same man who had attacked Morgan Rowan earlier that year. Tali was taken to the hospital but doesn't remember anything. She received more than 27 stitches for her head wound and was in a coma for 32 days. I don't remember ever being in the hospital. I do remember hearing that I was released because there was nothing they could do with me. It was a brain injury. So I was sent home to the Chateau Marmont to be cared by for my family there. And when I did regain consciousness, nothing was brought up.

I mean, my parents didn't talk about it, so obviously something had happened to me, but I never knew what had happened to me. Allegedly, over the years, talking with other people, allegedly, and I won't mention names, but a well-known psychiatrist at the time that was a family friend that my parents went to speak with

had said, don't bring it up unless she brings it up. And I made the mistake of bringing it up to my mother, who probably opened up a box of chocolates and it was not addressed. That was her way of dealing with it and promised to take me shopping probably. Seriously. Though her parents weren't telling her what happened, that didn't mean people weren't talking about it. I did recover enough to go back to school for a little bit, and my whole classroom standing up and looking at me like, oh, my God, I was supposed to be dead.

And there was several family friends at that school, so there was some talk, but not in detail. And obviously, as 8-year-olds, I had been kidnapped and obviously attacked, but I never knew of a rape. That was never even in my consciousness. Shortly after Tali's attack, she and her family moved to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. This gave Tali the fresh start she needed.

I can't say that for certain what happened to me was my parents' decision to move to Mexico 100%. My parents were extremely involved in Los Angeles in the music and movie business. At the time, I think they'd been thinking about it for a while anyway, of either moving to Kauai or Mexico. And I think Mexico, because it was like a two and a half hour flight, it was much easier to get back and forth in case there was an emergency. Definitely what happened to me maybe made it a reality sooner than later. Life in Mexico was paradise. I got a rowboat and a horse and I never wanted a horse, but my mother always wanted a horse. So I immediately got a horse and a little rowboat

with a sail on it. Living in Mexico is paradise. It was amazing. Well, I had a real childhood. I mean, there was nothing to remind me of anything like that. No one knew. No one knew there of that. I mean, even the Los Angeles old family friends, a lot of them didn't even know about it. It was nothing that was ever brought up to me. And then I was put in a whole new world, which that wasn't even a reality. Meanwhile, Rodney Alcala had successfully disappeared. In 1971, four years after attacking Talley, he was added to the FBI's most wanted list. Campers at a New Hampshire summer camp saw the FBI list at the local post office and saw a familiar face. But they recognized him not as Rodney Alcala, but as John Berger,

their camp counselor. After they reported him, Alcala was arrested and charged with kidnapping, rape, child molestation, and torture. Talley's family did not want to put her through testifying, and without the victim's testimony, prosecutors pled the case down to just a child molestation charge. In total, the man who had nearly killed a child only ended up serving 34 months. And that fact alone is despicable because the court system knew,

why are you gonna pull an 11-year-old person back into that scene, make them relive that when there's no doubt that that was me and that he did that to me why did it take the court system that i had to be there that's disgusting and despicable that seriously why bring that up to a child again make that person relive that that's disgusting when fact is dna it's all there i was there that was me he did it oh but it takes me being there that's horrific seriously would it have taken me dying to have kept him in prison oh i needed to die i needed to not breathe again for them to put him away maybe because i didn't come back to testify that's disgusting disgusting. I mean, I mean, I don't get it.

I don't get it. Oh, yeah, let's make that child relive this, put her through hell, and, oh, then maybe we'll put him away. By me not going to court, that, that was their decision? That's... It doesn't take away any of the facts of what he did to me. That's... I don't... That's... Something's wrong with the system, if that's what it takes.

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Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. Thank you. to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash survived today. I Survived is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedies, celebrity interviews, news, or even motivational speakers, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue, right? And guess what? Now you can call the shots on your auto insurance too. Enter the Name Your Price tool from Progressive. The Name Your Price tool puts you in charge of your auto insurance by working just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance,

and they'll show you a variety of coverages that fit within your budget, giving you options. Now that's something you'll want to press play on. It's easy to start a quote, and you'll be able to choose the best option for for you fast. It's just one of the many ways you can save with Progressive Insurance. Quote today at Progressive.com to try the name your price tool for yourself and join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Tali and her family tried to move on with their lives. But when she was 18, Tali got a call from her dad that resurfaced the horrible incident. I was living in San Francisco. My father called me and said some detectives would like to talk to me.

If it bothered me not to talk to them, but I did have my right to society, if I could help, I should do so. Prosecutors wanted Talley's help putting Alcala behind bars again. On July 24, 1979, Alcala had been arrested at his mother's house, this time for the murder of 12-year-old Robin Samso. While searching the Monterey Park, California home, investigators found a receipt for a storage unit outside Seattle. In the storage unit, they found thousands of photos of people, some young, some old, some nude, some in compromising positions. And they found many pieces of jewelry, which they suspected were trophies from his victims, but couldn't match them to any particular unsolved murders.

As a victim of Rodney Alcala, Talley's testimony was important for the case. I first heard the name Rodney Alcala, I think the first time I went back up to the States to testify. Because I remember the first time I went to up to the States to testify. Because I remember the first time I went to testify, it was horrible. They put me in a courtroom, and it was just the judge, and Rodney Alcala was standing there. And the court was cleared, and I asked the judge if that was him,

and he goes, you know, like, he couldn't tell me that. And it was the creepiest thing I've ever experienced, because he was right there. It was like, that's disgusting. I don't know why anyone would do that. Rodney Alcala was convicted and sentenced to death for the murder of Robin Samso. However, his conviction was overturned on appeal. The jury had heard about Alcala's previous sex crimes as part of the prosecution's case, including Talley's testimony. The appellate judge determined this

shouldn't have been entered as evidence. Alcala was tried again in 1986, and he again was found guilty and sentenced to death. This was also overturned on appeal. In 2003, Orange County Senior Deputy District Attorney Matt Murphy, who was also the prosecutor in our first episode this season, had the DNA on the jewelry found in Alcala's storage unit tested. Pieces in the locker matched Charlotte Lamb, Jill Parenteau, Georgia Wickstead, and Jill Barcombe, all murdered between 1977 and 1979 in Los Angeles. Matt Murphy called Tali to ask for her help again.

I don't recall exactly how Matt got a hold of me. I do remember having several phone call conversations with him and him insisting on how vital I was to the whole thing and how much it would mean to the whole scenario if I would participate. And of course, if I could help, I was graciously offered myself. That was not a problem. Meanwhile, over the years, Morgan had never forgotten about the little eight-year-old girl Alcala raped the same year as her. And while Tali got a call from the DA's office, Morgan was totally blindsided, finding out about Alcala's newly discovered victims from the news. We moved to California in about 2002 or 2003. We moved to Orange County.

And one night his face just appeared on the news and it said that he was on trial for murdering Robin Samson. And I was more than I could take. I had a panic attack so bad I thought I was having a heart attack. I just I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that he was out. I couldn't believe he'd attacked another child and then the more I learned and the more I heard about possibly hundreds of women and all these women he killed and I just absolutely speechless. I don't feel guilt for them. I didn't leave him out of jail.

You know, I didn't do that. I don't, I don't, nothing I could have done was gonna give him a longer sentence. I cannot believe that they actually let him out again. And as I watched it night to night on the news, they showed the brave eight-year-old survivor go on the witness stand and oh my god she had a name. It was like Tali Shapiro. Wow. And she was whole and she was beautiful and she wasn't hurt. It was wonderful. It was just wonderful. I wanted to reach out to her, but there was, what do you say? I mean, it was just nothing, there's just no easy way to do that. So I was just happy to see her alive and brave

and happy and whole, you know. Rodney Alcala was tried for five murders in 2010 and represented himself. Prosecutors presented Robin Samsoe's earrings found in Alcala's storage unit as evidence. As part of his defense, he showed a clip of his appearance on The Dating Game in 1978, where he is wearing a similar pair of earrings months before Robin Samsoe was murdered. He was bachelor number one and actually won the show, but his bachelorette was too creeped out by him

to go through with their date. This appearance would give him the name the Dating Game Killer. When I saw Rod on the Dating Game, there's a moment there where he's really Rod. You know, there's a moment where he's smiling and laughing and charismatic and someone you want to know, and he's not the horrible memory that I have.

But the nerve and the arrogance to go on a show looking for dates when you kill women is the perfect description of who he was. He had no bounds. He didn't care what anybody thought. I don't think he cared if he got caught. It's just insane that he would do something like that. I didn't know about the show. I didn't see the show at the time.

I absolutely hate the name, The Dating Game Killer. It sounds cute. It sounds sweet. It sounds harmless. And he's vicious. He can be charming and he can be charismatic and he can vicious. He can be charming, and he can be charismatic, and he can be interesting, but when he becomes whatever it is that takes over him,

he is just a sadistic, horrible animal. That's a real good description of who Rod is, the arrogance to actually go on television in front of the whole country looking for more women is just the absolute description of the arrogance that he is. Rodney Alcala was once again found guilty on all five counts of first-degree murder. Talley testified during the penalty phase of his trial,

where he would go on to be sentenced to death. When I agreed to participate in the 2010 court hearings, the little girl from Newport Beach is what drove me to participate. I mean, if there was anything I could do to help, of course, I was there to help. I was able to meet a lot of the families and I was welcomed to this odd, I don't know the word for it. We kind of all bonded in a strange way. I did see Rodney Akala on the stand

and I guess he apologized to me, but I wasn't sure what he apologized for. I didn't feel anything because I have no emotion for the man nor do I, I don't exert any energy towards him. I don't feel anything because I have no emotion for the man, nor do I, I don't exert any energy towards him. I don't feel anything because I don't, I mean, I know that's something that happened to me, but I don't, it's not like I don't acknowledge it. It's just, I don't, I don't carry any energy one way or the other of that. So him, him apologizing was kind of ludicrous, basically.

It's like, mofo, you didn't accomplish anything, nor did you ruin my life. Unfortunately, he ruined a lot of other people's. From watching the trial, Morgan now knew Tully's name, but didn't know how to get a hold of her, or what she'd say if she did. But a chance encounter changed everything. Just last year, I have a small group of people that talk about Sunset Strip and what it used to be like. And I said, you know, it wasn't all wonderful, you know, that Rod Alcala had raped me when I was 16 years old. Because a lot of them knew him.

And my friend Tony wrote me a private message and said, this is insane. Rod Alcala raped the 8-year-old girl that lived next door to me in Mexico. And I was like, Tali Shapiro? And he said, yeah. And I said, you knew her? He goes, I said, yeah. And I said, you knew her? He goes, I know her now. And I said, you got to be kidding. I said, so I go, will you please, please, I don't want to blindside her.

Will you tell her that there's someone else that this happened to that would like to write to her and ask her if it's okay? And she said yes. And I spent a week trying to write this letter just pouring my heart out this letter about how sorry I was and if I could have done something and I sent it to her on instant messenger. Well in one of our correspondence with Morgan she had expressed guilt and remorse and shame for not doing more.

I don't know that it was within her power to have stopped him or stopped him doing what he did to me. I feel love for her. She's grateful that I forgave her, but there was nothing to be forgiven about. I mean, she did try in her own way to go to the police, and the police kind of wrote her off as a groupie and, you know, did nothing. Didn't even fill out a report. After a few cancellations due to the pandemic, Tali and Morgan finally met in 2021. The first time I met Morgan, she and her husband came down here to Palm Springs and we met at a restaurant and she just gave me the biggest hug.

And I was a little awkward because, you know, she knew me more than I knew her. I mean, and we've met several times since and she's just a sweetheart. I was more nervous that day than I am today. I was so nervous. I don't know why. You know, we planned to meet and we had to cancel it because of COVID, you know, and it was a long time till we finally could finally get together. And I sat waiting for her to drive in that driveway. My hands were shaking. I was crying. I was just a mess. And she got out of that car and I practically knocked her over. I ran over her. I just put my arms around her and I felt her put her arms around me. And I just, it was wonderful.

It was salvation, you know. It was just a beautiful feeling that she would forgive me. That someone else understood was wonderful too, you know. And I think it was, hoped that it was good for her too to have someone else that understood, you know, and our friendship isn't about him. He's over and done with, you know. We love each other as the person we are, you know.

We don't, as little as possible, we don't talk about him. After being sentenced to death in California, Alcala was extradited to New York in 2013 to face charges for the murders of Cornelia Criley and Ellen Hover. He raped and strangled Cornelia Criley in her New York apartment in 1971 while he was on the run for attacking Talley. He murdered Ellen Hover in New York in 1977 when he was out on parole. She was missing for 11 months before her remains were found in Westchester County outside the city. Alcala pled guilty to both murders and was sentenced to 25 years to life. However, life would only be eight more years. Rodney Alcala died in prison of natural causes

on July 24, 2021. When Rod died, I thought I'd be happy. I thought I would open a bottle of champagne and celebrate, and I cried, and I couldn't stop. I cried all day. I cried for the evil and the suffering he's brought into this world. I cried for Tali's lost childhood. I cried for the mess of my own life.

But I think mostly I cried for all the women out there that'll never get found and all the people who love them that still wait. And I cried for all the other women that keep their secrets and that cry by themselves in the middle of the night. And if there's anything good that could come from me speaking is to tell others to address their instincts. When you feel uncomfortable, you need to leave. Not later. Now, you need to leave. You might not get a second chance. We didn't all survive. I had moments I could

have saved myself. I could have called home. I could have walked out of that restaurant. I could have done something to stop what happened to me. I should have known who was going to drive the car. There were moments that I could have prevented this from happening. And I hope that, you know, by hearing that, maybe someone else takes that to heart and trusts their own instincts. While Morgan's instincts might have told her to leave that night, just like Tali wasn't sure about getting in his car, there's no way either of them could have predicted what would happen.

And today, they both choose to see themselves not as victims, but as survivors. Well, I haven't met many survivors from serial killers, so I don't know what we all have in common. I am extremely self-sufficient and independent, maybe too much so, but my cup is always half full or three quarters full. My friends tell me that I always see the best in things, even when the sunnier side of the road, or I will find the sunshine in a cloudy day. I mean, you could complain, but what good is it going to do? We all have choices, and maybe because of what I've overcome, I choose the sunny side of the road.

I'm not sure, you know? Or maybe I'm more aware of the choices. I'm not sure, you know? But, or maybe I'm more aware of the choices. You have a choice, you know? I'm not one to wallow in pity. It took me a lot of years to realize that, you know, I do have control, that I do, you know, that whatever mess I made out of my life wasn't anybody's fault but my own.

But, you know, but it took me a long time to realize that when evil touches you, it changes you, but it doesn't own you. Evil will never own you. And it's a hard road to take to get to that, but there is an end to it and evil just does not own you. I continued to be the best person I know how to be. I didn't get bitter or angry. I didn't hurt other people because I'd been hurt. He owned me once, he really did, but he didn't own my life. I refused to let him own my life. To speak to someone at the Rape Abuse Incest National Network, call 1-800-656-HOPE or 1-800-656-4673. You can also live chat with someone at RAINN.org. That's R-A-I-N-N dot O-R-G. I Survived is hosted and produced by Caitlin VanMal and Law and Crime Network.

Audio editing by Brad Mabee. For A&E, our senior producer is John Thrasher and our supervising producer is McKamey Lynn. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Sean Gottlieb, and Shelley Tatro. This podcast is based on A&E's Emmy-winning TV series, I Survived. For more I Survived, visit aetv.com. Copyright 2023, A&E Television Networks, LLC. All rights reserved. Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far from where he filmed Blue Velvet. What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots, quiet, out-of-the-way places to bring in his cocaine.

My name is Joshua Davis and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across, but nothing was quite as strange as what we found in Varnumtown, North Carolina. There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got a story to tell, but does the truth even exist? Welcome to Varnumtown. Varnumtown is available wherever you listen to podcasts.