Cold Case Files - The Family / The Clue That Stuck

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

A detective vows not to shave until he solves the murder of a young Oregon woman. And investigators track down a killer with the help of DNA found on the duct tape used to wrap the victim's head.Hers: Start your free online visit at forhers.com/CCF for your personalized weight loss treatment options.Marathon: Join Marathon Rewards today and start earning rewards on every gallon of gas. Marathon, where fun runs on full!Progressive: Multitask right now. Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at Shopify.com/coldcase and take your retail business to the next level today!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This program contains subject matter that may be disturbing to some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. There are over 100,000 cold cases in America. Only 1% are ever solved. This is one of those rare stories. What we looked for when it came up, we look for indentations in the snow, and the first one was right over here. Michael Gates is a Multnomah County investigator in the state of Oregon.

This was the actual pit here. What we're doing is we're digging a parallel ditch and then go in. On April 19, 2005, he returns to a hole in the ground, where seven years ago, a team of cold case detectives uncovered the remains of a woman named Kim Basil, a woman who had been missing for 16 years. This is the first one you guys tried? This is the first one. We had two holes where we started simultaneously.

Today, Detective Gates is joined by Kim's mother, Carol, and sister Michelle, who have made the three-hour drive from Portland to see for the first time where Kim was buried. So I started this one, and Gary, and the rest of the guys started the other one over here. For me, she was my daughter. She was gone for 16 and a half years. We needed to see this. Are you looking for some threads from the sleeping bag? What is it? You're just looking at anything. Okay. I wanted to see if I could find a small piece of my sister that was left. Maybe a piece of jewelry or a bone that they didn't get. Just to fill the soil in my hands at where she was the whole time.

What is this right here? Visiting Kim's makeshift grave is her family's attempt to come to grips with a murder that began more than 40 years ago with a phone call. We're not going to be able to go much further because it's really, it's a rut, hon. She was crying hysterically when she called right from the beginning. On October 17, 1982, Michelle Basil is 13 years old and at home when the phone rings. On the other end of the line is her sister Kim. And she just said that she was in trouble and she needed to come home.

She was standing in the shower so no one would know she was on the phone. Kim Basil's family has not heard from her for several days. Before Michelle can ask why, the conversation is cut short. And then someone came in and found out she was on the phone, and they started to violently beat her. And the phone dropped, but it didn't disconnect. And then they started burning her with cigarettes. I could hear it begging them to stop burning her. I just listened as long as I could, and then finally someone hung the phone up.

In 1982, Michelle is barely a teenager and badly frightened. She tells her mother, Carol, about the phone call and about Kim. I contacted the police and they told me I had to wait the two weeks to file a missing person. They considered her a 19-year-old runaway. She was an adult until they had something proving that she was gone. It really was very little investigation. Whether she was a runaway or a murder victim, all that's known is Kim Basil has disappeared and is still missing a year later when a local drug sting produces an arrest and then an informant.

This person had heard that Kim had been killed and went on to tell me that Esther, Benita Kehout, and John Santmeier were two of the people that were involved in killing Kim. In October of 1983, Joe Goodale is a detective with the Portland Police. The names Kehout and Santmire are familiar to him. According to police, both are members of a local crime family, allegedly headed up by Danny Longoria. The group that we're talking about, the old, older participants were constantly setting up crimes, using younger people so that if someone got caught, it wouldn't lead to their arrest. They were very good at it.

These families were infamous since the first day I came on the police bureau in the late 60s. It's just a way of life with them. According to Goodale's informant, at the time she disappeared, Kim Basil was Danny Longoria's girlfriend and had been used by the family in a massive shoplifting scale. I think at one point during this investigation, the store informed me that they believe they may have lost up to a quarter million dollars worth of merchandise before they had figured this out. They set up a surveillance with video surveillance and captured this on film. Caught by security cameras, Kim Basil was looking at possible jail time, and, according to the informant,

reportedly asked the Longoria family for protection. She told them, you need to help me, and if you don't, don't, I'm going to go to the police and I'm going to tell them about your cocaine trafficking, the safe burglary, and these thefts from Fred Meyer. Wrong thing to say to these people. We knew she was with some very bad people and young and somewhat naive and probably in over her head. Goodell believes the family viewed Kim Basil as a potential informant and decided to get rid of her. In November of 1983, he sits down with Linda Estes, a detective from neighboring Clackamas County.

who is familiar with the Longoria family. Goodale brings her up to speed on Kim's disappearance. Well, you got the phone call that the people responsible for this were Esther K. Hut and John Sampire. Right. So what did you do with that? Estes and Goodale decide to approach Danny Longoria and see if he will turn on his cousin Esther or his crony John. It's something the Longoria family is famous for. They like to tape record other criminals and use.

that for barter should they ever be arrested. And instead of going to jail, they wanted to trade something. Danny Longoria does not disappoint. The moment he hears the name Kim Basil, Longoria proclaims his innocence, and then agrees to a police wiretap. He agreed to make some tape-recorded phone calls to the suspects in the case

and to any witnesses in the case that might have information. Longoria first calls on Esther Cahute. I'm not much in this to me for a minute, because we're both talking. I don't want no big arguments. You call them lawyer. In fact, I'm just going to tell you

what I heard. I don't make a difference who came from. A lawyer said that you said that I killed that brought and you had the police believe. That's a story.

That's a story. That's an absolutely made up story. You have nothing to worry about. You did absolutely nothing. I know. I did. That's not the point. That's not the point.

I don't want you to put a bump beef on me, man. Esther isn't talking, even to her cousin Danny. Then more stories begin to surface about Kim Basil and a wood chipper. We heard rumors on the street that her body had been run through a wood chipper. Joe Goodell and I did some follow-up investigation

in regards to that. And interviewed the owner of this wood chipper and looked over the grounds. And I mean, I could envision finding pieces of body parts that have been through a chipper out here. We never did, thank goodness. No body, no evidence, and no one in the family willing to talk, at least not yet. The date is January 9th, 1998.

I'm in the Clackness County Jail. This is Gary Muncie with the Malmountain County Sheriff's Office. In my company is John Albert Santmire. On a winter afternoon, Detective Gary Muncie, sits across from John Santmire, an alleged member of the Longoria crime family, now sitting in jail on a probation

violation. St. Meyer has asked for the meeting and wants to talk about the 1982 murder of 19-year-old Kim Basil. There's perhaps a crack in the foundation of this group of people, and he was privy to that, and he wanted to get his word in first,

probably to benefit himself. What I do remember the night, I'm not sure. sure the night that it was. I was awakened by Esther. Esther is Esther Cahute, Danny Longoria's cousin, and second in command in the Longoria operation. John Santmire lives with Esther and her three sons. She had asked me to help move the body, for which she had already called her brother and her son, which is Roy and John, and she had showed me the body,

for which down toward the lower part of the body, which would have been a grind area, it was a big wet spot to where I am actually assumed that she was dead already. He said that Esther, Roy, John, and himself had carried her out of the house and the sleeping bag. stepping over other kids that were asleep on the floor out through the garage into the back of the pickup truck

and that Roy and John left in that truck with the body in the back of the truck. And from there, I had went back to sleep, and that was that. Muncie isn't buying St. Meyer's limited role in the crime, but before he can charge anyone, he'll need more evidence, including a body. So in September 82, Kim's arrested at Fred Myers. September 10th. Muncie decides to bring in Detective Michael Gates to lead the investigation. Two weeks later, detectives forge a second crack in the Longoria family. This time, it's Esther Cahoot's nephew, Benny Minaz,

who was arrested on a charge of attempted murder and seems more than willing to trade in his aunt for a deal from the DA. When Benny came forward, it really enlightened me a little bit because what he was telling us was about this property that his aunt owned, and that through the years he heard rumors of a young girl that was murdered and put in the property somewhere. I heard him talking to somebody on the phone about property of a friend that my mom and dad was found. That's how I knew that she's going to be moved up today. I was the one that dug that hole. Did you dig it for this reason? No.

Why did you dig it for an out-out house? for a now now. And I thought it was going to be used for a grave. And Benny drew a map to location where he believed the body was. The land Benny describes is in a remote area outside Portland. Gates procures a search warrant and heads out looking for the body of Kim Basel. We knew that the formant had relatives that owned the property. So for us, that information became extremely reliable.

I was pretty sure Kim was up there somewhere. We didn't know exactly where she was up there, but we knew she was up there somewhere. On a cold day in February 1998, detectives descend upon 38 acres of woods and begin to dig for Kim Basil's body. We had two pits that we needed to work on. Both of them were outhouse pits, and we knew that. But we didn't know exactly which one Kim was in. So we spent two or three days digging down through this area using metal detectors and noting things beneath the surface, so we started digging on a grid system through here. By the time I was almost finished with the other one, one of the detectives found a sleeping bag in this one.

So we concentrate all our efforts on this hole right here. We need this section is very fragile, and that over there. We knew from the very beginning that Kimmy was in a sleeping bag, and we cut it just a corner of the bag and saw what appeared to be a human bone. dental records prove that the body is that of Kim Basil. It is left to Michael Gates to contact the victim's family and let them know after 16 years what happened to Kim. I was very relieved, but you have so many different emotions that come through you.

You're excited for a brief second because you finally know, but then at the same time you don't really believe it's your sister. I mean, is it really true that she was murdered? and then you're so sad and then you're angry how dare someone do this investigators have found Kim Basil's body but have not

ID her killer as he talks to the Basel family Detective Michael Gates makes a promise I told him we were just going to continue on with this case and we weren't going to stop and I thought for a moment and then I told him that I'm not going to shave until this case is solved

he gave us this life basically looking for her He promised that he would not shave until someone was charged for Kim's death. No one had ever promised before that they would, they would not stop working on Kim's case until they solved it. Michael promised that. Gates puts his razor away and picks up Kim Basil's murder book. Gates' case thus far relies almost entirely on a string of informants,

most of them pointing a finger at either John Santmeier or Esther Cahoot as Kim Basil's killer. Gates feels he is close to an indictment. Then the chatter begins to dry up, and the Longoria family closes ranks. And once family members learned that Esther was more likely than not involved in the murder of Kimmy, things started quieting down,

people were disappearing, and people were really clamming up. One of those people clamming up is Benny Minas, Gates' original informant. She told me the rats die, and she said that he wouldn't have a burn family. Would you? And I said, no. She says, well, you know what would happen. If you would burn family, would have done it. And I said, what? You know? And she said, don't play the steeper with me.

Do you afraid of being killed if you tell him the truth? He's straight up with me, man. Right now, is that a yes? Can you say it? Yes. Esther is Benny's aunt, and Benny would be in trouble. And if I didn't get the heat off of them, that my mother and my father, My sister and their kids and my wife and my kids would be killed included with myself. They said that they would disappear. She's mean, she's conniving, cold stare right through you. She knows what she's doing, capable of murder anytime.

Everyone, it seems, has stopped talking, and the case against Esther Kehout begins to soften. Meanwhile, Michael Gates' hair continues to grow. It kept getting longer and longer and longer. And it was a visual reminder to myself that you need to solve this case and you made a promise. And it really made me strive to work harder and harder for this case because I did want to shave one of these days. At Marathon Gas Stations, every stop is the start of fun. Like the awesome fuel savings you can get with Marathon Rewards. Join Marathon Rewards today and start earning rewards on every gallon of gas.

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Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash gold case. Go to shopify.com slash cold case. That's Shopify.com slash cold case. The whole case was going to rely on people talking. And unfortunately in this case, people didn't want to talk. Michael Gates is a detective with a problem. He needs to get inside a Portland crime family. and get people talking about the murder of 19-year-old Kim Basil, more than 15 years earlier. There were several people that we talked to that felt that they would end up the same way as Kimmy did if they talked.

Gates has promised the Basel family until he solves Kim's murder, he will not shave. Six months later, Gates' stubble has thickened into a beard, and he discovers that his promise has a hidden benefit. It helps him operate in Portland's criminal underworld. I looked like a normal cop, and people didn't want to talk to me. And once the beard started growing and the hair started growing, I found that people really wanted to talk to me, and they would talk to me.

They invited me in their house. By being one of them, I think it worked tremendously for me. When Mike first came up and spoke to me, I was in this mentality to where you're not supposed to talk to police officers. You're not supposed to say nothing no matter what. Frank is a cousin in the Longoria family, and just out on bail, when Mike, Michael Gates approaches him.

He asked me if he could talk to his girlfriend and get back to me. I go home and I speak with my wife and we start talking. She tells me to do what you think is right. And the next day I went back and he wanted to sit down and interview with me. And I taped the interview. I was drinking with this associate, John Satmar. And he was a little intoxicated and he started talking about how he smother. He says I smothered her with a pillow on a couch.

When you say her, how do you know it was Kim? He said her name. He said that he smothered Kim on the couch of my aunt's home and that she was fighting for her. And he said he took her to the mountains and put her in a pre-dead hole. Frankie was another piece of the puzzle. He was polygraphed as to what John Stemeyer talked to him about and he passed with flying colors. On March 19, 2000, John Santmire is arrested for the murder of Kim Basil. Gates, however, is not yet satisfied.

He believes Esther Cahute, second in command of the Longoria family, was intimately involved in the crime. I wanted anybody that was involved in this case in prison, and we knew she was involved. I just couldn't prove it at the time. While the Longoria family seems willing to throw John Santmire to the wolves, Kehout appears to be another story. Gates is reduced to waiting, watching, and hoping Esther delivers herself into the hands of police. I knew if we got Esther to admit to anything that we had her. Then in October of 1999, Esther Kehout is arrested on drug charges.

As she sits in the county lockup, awaiting arraignment, Gates sees this as his last and perhaps best chance. Still unshaven, he plants stories about Kim Basil's murder in the local press, and then listens on the prison phone as Esther Cahute's family begins to call in. So I kept listening and listening and listening, and then finally it happened. Esther's son, Lonnie Cahood, called her and said, Mom, they found the body. He came out in the newspaper today. What is?

That they found the body. Uh-uh. Yeah. Esther says, uh-oh. And then they continue to talk about it. Who's going to be involved? Who are the police going to come after? Well, left this straight.

That's really good to hear. What motive would I have? What anything would I have? I mean, I have no motive. They just continually talked about it, but Esther never came out and said she murdered Kim. The phone call is a damaging piece of evidence, but not enough to bring Esther down.

That privilege lies with her co-conspirator, and whipping boy, John Sampmeyer. What I'm going to do is now, John, John, the right remains silent. You understand that? Inside the county jail, investigators apply pressure to John Sampmeier. Police believe Santmire and Cahoot had beaten and tortured Kim for hours. According to Santmire, Kim was tied up in a sleeping bag when he and Esther decided to kill her. As soon and Kim up, I mean, saying,

that she just went this way, she's been in the sleeping bag, she brought me into the front of, so we, Kim was in the sleep bag, all the stuff, the only part that was shown with her head. And he showed me how he held her down, until Kim, he stopped struggling. And there was such a struggle with it that during the portions of the time when Kim came saying,

a old town, a motel and motel and hotel, I said, after I can't do it, so we switched spots. And I didn't sit on, her arms while Esther sat on her face with the door. I basically just grabbed around it so she couldn't move her up. And when she stopped struggling, they held it down for a couple more minutes to make sure she was dead. Why did Esther want Kim dead to show off me on the other than? Hey, and though it's done, I can do this, you know, hey.

Esther Cahute is indicted for first-degree murder. She pleads guilty to manslaughter and a sentence to nine. years. Esther was released from prison in 2005. John Santmire pleads guilty to murder one and receives a sentence of life with the possibility of parole after 10 years. You know, all the pictures I saw of Kim, I mean, she changed a lot. We finally got some closure on Kim. We brought her home. That's the first thing we wanted to do, and then we put two people in prison. So I think the job was well done by all, and the conclusion was a wonderful one. This is bringing back a lot of memories.

He just wasn't going to let us down. It was bounding determined he would find someone. I mean, at that time, we basically knew who they were, and we had for years, but it was trying to find the proof. With his promise fulfilled, after nearly three years, Michael Gates finally gets his face back. And I told him once we solved it, I was going to shave. And we did that. We came to the office. The media was there.

and they shaved my beard off and it felt wonderful. Someone finally cared enough and to find someone like that is really remarkable. It was Tuesday morning and it was the morning after the Memorial Day weekend. On June 1st, 1993, in Port Wainimi, California, a house that was once a home becomes a crime scene. When I got here in front of 135,

I was met by the estranged husband of the victim and his brother. They were seen to be in a panic, and they told me to come in the front door. Dennis Fitzgerald is a homicide detective with the Port Wainimi Police Department. Inside the house, Andrew Rodriguez is 11 years old and watches as they cut duct tape off the body of his mother, 32-year-old Norma Rodriguez. My uncle was checking the post. First thing to do was I get out of scissors and cut the tape, you know what I mean if she was still alive. And when he cut the tape, you know what I just seen her face.

She was white like a ghost. So that's when I knew that. She was dead already. Rodriguez has been strangled to death. Her head wrapped entirely in tape. Fitzgerald works the homicide with Sergeant Fernie Estreya. It was pretty close and personal with the strangulation and the duct tape, which I know we'd never seen a homicide like that before where duct tape was at. ever used in a homicide.

This was his or her way of putting some kind of a blindfold on this person so that they wouldn't have to look at her while they were doing what they were doing. From a forensic standpoint, the crime scene is clean, no sign of rape, no bodily fluids to work with, no unknown prints lifted. There is, however, at least one significant clue, and it involves Norma Rodriguez's house keys, which disappeared days before the murder, only to reappear at the crime scene. The keys became very important because then we realized that the keys had been missing, missing, and all of a sudden are there.

And the house was thoroughly searched. We knew whoever had done this, brought those keys back. And so that told us that whoever did this had access to the keys prior to the homicide. Whoever killed Norma Rodriguez knew her well, apparently moving in and out of her house at will. Detectives believe they have at least one other lead to follow, one that involves an eyewitness to the crime. The problem is, he's only four years old.

One of the people I interviewed was the victim's son, Austin, who was age four at the time. On June 4th, Detective Ron Burns and a child psychologist, sit down with Norma Rodriguez's second son, four-year-old Austin. He was home with his mother all weekend, and detectives believe might have actually witnessed the attack. This part of the interview is the part where I talked about

what he had seen regarding the tape around his mother's face. Somebody do something bad to your mommy. What did they do to her? They did my tape. Why did they do that? Was she saying something to them?

Do you remember what she said to them and what they went to tape by her mother? Was she screaming? Mm-hmm. What was she screaming? You don't know? In this case, I got to the point where he's going to be able to tell me a name of a person he saw, putting the tape on his mother's face.

And without throwing any names out there, this was a name that he brought up. Do you know what the bad person put this tape on her mouth? You know that person? Do you know his name? What is her name? One. One. What color is Warren?

Did he put it by your money now? Why did he do that? Do you know anybody else who'll pretend by your money now? Mm-hmm. Nobody else? Mm-hmm? Only Warren? Now, we established as far as he knows,

what he's telling us at this time, there's only one person involved. Police believe that person to be Warren Mackie, a former co-worker and friend of Norma's. Just as the case begins to come together, however, four-year-old Austin produces a second name. This is what he had to say about the second person involved. Did you see one in the house?

What's it? What's it? What do you said one was like? What? What did they do? What did? Which one did? What the one?

She saw the boat? I don't know. Yeah. And that threw us a curveball because the first person he identified was a white man. And it was that man alone. And then he indicated there was a black man also involved. Police believe the second man also to be a co-worker of Norma's. Investigators need to locate both men.

How you done, Ward? I'm Detective Berg, Portwereen Police Department. This is Detective Sergeant Estreya. Four days after talking to Austin Rodriguez, detectives sit down. down with Warren Mackie and ask him about Norma. How did you know her? Very well. When you stay close, how do you know, I'd say that now,

where you're going to go from, but we're very close friends. Being that Warren Mackie was a close friend of the victim, she wanted to interview him and see what he has to say about, where he was, what he was doing that particular night. We went to Santa Barbara Sunday night. We went to Santa Barbara was killed. Mackey claims he was out on the town, and stayed out until early the next morning.

You have to be having you... Excuse me apart from what time you made up to pass. It was maybe between 1.30 feet or 1.30 days. Because we left right before I was closing down. So it was about 2 o'clock or so when we got home. And we went back to you. I went back when I was pretty drunk. I just, I passed out of the sleep.

Mackie's friends substantiate his alibi. providing Mackie, at least for the time being, with some cover. Investigator Darren Schindler runs down the second man mentioned by Austin at the local Kmart. He was pretty cooperative. We asked him if he was responsible for her death. He told us no. He passed a polygraph test. There was nothing to indicate that he was being untruthful with us at all.

With their two best suspects on the back burner, detectives decide they need to take a fresh look at the case. We right away started looking at. her inner circle of friends, husband, the brother-in-law, ex-boyfriends. I can recall being extremely frustrated because there were a number of potential suspects. However, no one really surfaced at that time. If it was a horse race, nobody really came out ahead. They were all neck and neck.

Potential suspects are asked to take a polygraph. All agree, and each, in turn, passes. Questioning then expands to neighbors and casual friends. I had no idea who it might be the one thing you want to do is keep your thoughts, ideas, everything wide open, so that you don't miss something. It's very frustrating because the momentum is there at first, but then kind of wanes after a while because one dead end after another. And you try and keep that momentum going and it's very tough. difficult to do. In time, the investigation slows and the case goes cold, until a scientist turns on the TV and finds a clue that just might stick. When I was channel surfing one day,

I saw somebody in the process of wrapping somebody up with duct tape. Then I saw her go up like this here to tear it and rip it. And that's the obvious thing that you'd be looking for is saliva on their saliva is a very rich source of DNA. You know, there's just so much out there right now when it comes to weight loss, new trends, endless options, even a new wave of medications. It can feel impossible to figure out what really fits you. That's where Hers comes in. Through Hers, you can connect with a licensed medical provider who takes the time to understand your goals and decide what kind of treatment makes sense for you. And if medication is part of that plan, your care doesn't stop there. Hers keeps it

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Hazzo! Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. He said he didn't see anything remarkable, you know, the naked eye. We should take him anyway. We wanted him cut because of how close and personal the murder was. In the spring of 2002, investigator Dennis Fitzgerald opens up the evidence files on case. number 931483, the murder of Norma Rodriguez. They are searching for traces of the killer's DNA and begin by looking under the victim's

fingernails. Ten years ago, we couldn't have submitted those fingernails for DNA processing. It just wasn't there. So that becomes pretty huge. These are the fingernail clippings from one of Norma Rodriguez's hands. In May of 2002, forensic scientist Shannon Barrios, takes custody of fingernail clippings, taken from the hands of a corpse almost 10 years earlier. Barrios tells detectives she's hopeful she will be able to extract DNA.

An example of what I would do to get the DNA off these fingernail clippings is I take a swab. This is a swab. And I just wet it with water. So I would swab the under surface and then I would turn the clipping over and I would swab the top surface. And then I take that swab and I do a DNA extraction on it. The extraction produces two genetic profiles. It was a mixture of DNA from Norma and a second contributor. Sure enough, there is a profile underneath her right fingernails that is an unknown male.

This was a huge break for us. I knew once that happened that the chances of solving this case were really big. The unknown profile is entered into CODIS, a DNA data bank made up mostly of convicted felony offenders, but fails to generate a match. Detectives reach out to Richard Simon, a prosecutor for the Ventura County District Attorney's Office, to help them work the profile. At that point, Dennis and I put together a list of people that were friends and acquaintances of Norma Rodriguez, and these were people we wanted to get DNA from to see if we could get a match. and the very first person I contacted in the collection of this DNA was Warren Mackey

and I asked him for his DNA and he said, sure, I'll give it to you. You know his name? What was the name? Warren. Warren? Warren. He was one of the two men

IDed by Norma's four-year-old son, Austin, as being in the house on the day Norma was killed. In 1993, both men offered alibis. Now, investigators send Mackey's DNA, along with samples from other suspects, back to the lab for comparison testing. On June 1st, I believe, of 2003, 10 years to the day, we get a hit. I was jumping up and down.

People in the adjoining offices could hear me. They were wondering what was going on. But yeah, that's when Shannon Barrios called me and told me that we have a match, it's Warren Mackey. Warren Mackey's DNA found under the fingernails of a murder victim. Cold case investigators are excited but cautious. I mean, it was pretty good, but we needed to eliminate any other possible explanations. I know down the line sometime, a light would come on, and he would say,

oh, now I remember she ran her fingers through my hair, or she did this or that to explain away that DNA. Investigators would like a second piece of forensic evidence, one that would inextricably bind Warren Mackey to Rodriguez. We're looking at the heart and soul of this case. At the request of cold case detectives, forensic scientist Ed Jones pulls out a length of duct tape used to wrap the head of murder victim, Norma Rodriguez, and prepares it for DNA testing. Yes, this piece of tape would have been 20 feet long when it was originally applied to the victim. It would have been wrapped around 14 times around her head.

The areas that I start with would be the beginning and the end. The beginning and the end. Jones has watched enough TV to know that these are the areas most likely to have been handled by the killer. When I was channel surfing one day, I saw somebody in the process of wrapping somebody up with duct tape. Then I saw her go up like this here to tear it and rip it. And that's the obvious thing that you'd be looking for is saliva on there. Saliva is a very rich source of DNA. A single DNA profile is developed from each end of the tape.

It is a perfect match to Warren Mackey. and the final piece to the murder case. So that means on both ends of that duct tape, we have his DNA. So he could have told us anything he wanted, but I don't know how he could explain his DNA buried 20 feet deep into that roll of duct tape. Whoever finished that roll, wrapped it around her face, and then either tore it with their teeth or with their hands, left their DNA on that duct tape at the end of the roll.

That was the killer. We knew we had the right person. We just wanted to afford him an opportunity to explain. On August 27, 2003, investigators Dennis Fitzgerald and Danny Thompson escort Warren Mackey into an interview room. Obviously, the main thing we want to do is see if we could get him to admit to what he had done and why he did it. Do you remember last year when I came to interview a volunteer getting in your DNA sample?

Sure. Do you know yourself? show it up on her. No, I don't. How could it? Well, that's what we want to know. Well, I don't know how it could happen. I have no idea.

Well, it's under the nature of thinking of. I had no idea what you're talking about. You know, I did not kill one, and it's just turning now into what you said all about me. The light bulb goes on, and you can see it go on, and he says, you're saying that I did this. That's exactly right. So we're just trying to think of anything that would explain that. I don't know. I don't explain it.

I wouldn't even try to start to explain it. I have no idea. You know, I'm getting to the feeling where, you know, the accused is sitting in this chair and, you know, I feel very uncomfortable. You know, talking with you guys now. You probably do feel uncomfortable, and I understand why you would. With their suspect uncomfortable, Fitzgerald moves from fingernails to duct tape, and the DNA report that will seal Warren Mackie's fate.

I asked him then to read the DNA results on the duct tape. All right. Then what about read that? And he read that, and he seemed to be pretty devastated. I don't know what you're talking about. It's not only underneath her fingernails. It's on the duct tape. It's on the duct tape. I didn't have anything to do with this murder.

Not at all. This conclusively helped him more than you did. I did not murder normally. I did not. This helped you. Absolutely. You know, if you're accusing me, then I'm not going to talk anymore. And, you know, I'll get a lawyer because you're accusing me now.

Absolutely. And that ends the interview. And we arrest him on the warrant. Warren Mackie is charged with killing Norma Rodriguez. Five months later, he pleads guilty to second-degree murder. But never offers an explanation as to why. There's some speculation on that. I think that he had a romantic interest in her. She didn't reciprocate, and I think he felt rejected and angry. It was a rejection thing he couldn't deal with. If he can't have her, nobody can type of thing. The thing I can't get over

is why I use the duct tape. You know, unless he tells us, I don't think we'll ever know. Just can't take somebody's life and expect to keep on breathing without paying some type of serious consequences. Twelve years after Norma Rodriguez was murdered, her son is grown. His life and his families changed forever by a murder that makes no sense

and an anger that refuses to settle. All I got to say is, all I needed with the guy was about two seconds personally for him to understand that, you know what I mean? The anger that I have towards you because you changed my brother and the rest of my family's lives forever. never be the same.

I would not forgive him. Like I said, I curse him for the rest of his life. I had so much hate on him. So much hate. I have forgave him. That's who I am. That's another Christian person that I am. And that's the only way that I could go on living.

They say in time, you will heal from your pain. No, it's still there. On March 28, 2005, Warren Mackey is sentenced to 15 years to life for his crime. He is currently serving his life sentence at Valley State Prison in California. The other man mentioned by Austin Rodriguez as being with Mackie has never been charged in the case. Thousands of free movies and TV shows. You swear? If I'm mine, I'm dying.

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