Cold Case Files - You Might Also Like: True Crime Obsessed

Episode Date: April 19, 2025

Introducing 406: The Girl on the Milk Carton from True Crime Obsessed.Follow the show: True Crime ObsessedFive days before Christmas 1984, 12-year-old Jonelle Matthews went missing from her own living room in the small town of Greeley, Colo. In an attempt to find her, Jonelle was given the tragic distinction as one of the first missing children whose face appeared on a milk carton. Sadly, the publicity did not bring her home. LOOKING FOR MORE TCO? On our Patreon feed, you'll find over 400 FULL AD-FREE BONUS episodes to BINGE RIGHT NOW, including our episode-by-episode coverage of popular documentary series like Love Has Won: The Cult of Mother God, LulaRich, and The Curious Case of Natalia Grace; classics like The Jinx, Making A Murderer, and The Staircase; and well-known cases like The Menendez Murders, Casey Anthony: American Murder Mystery, and The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, and so many more! FAM! COME SEE PATRICK ON TOUR! In February and March he's coming to Seattle, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Denver, Indianapolis, New Orleans, and Kansas City WITH A BRAND NEW SHOW! CLICK HERE for tickets and info! DISCLAIMER: Please note, this is an independent podcast episode not affiliated with, endorsed by, or produced in conjunction with the host podcast feed or any of its media entities. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the creators and guests. For any concerns, please reach out to [e-mail].

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Ends 430-2025. Jeep is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. Girl, we just recorded our ads, and it is very clear to me that my eyes are going. Oh, no. I'm enlarging everything to like 50% bigger than they sent it to us. You know what? You have options.

I know. We're solving problems. It's true. Even my notes for this are in 18-point font. That's where I start. No, but that, for this, it's different. Right, because you've got to be able to read it onpoint font. That's where I start. No, but for this, it's different. Right, because you've got to be able to read it on the fly.

We're gonna do it fast. We're flying by, and we're pissed today. I know. Oh, my God. Yeah. Ugh. -♪ Hi, Jillian Pazzovalli. Hey, Patrick Hines. Um, girl, do you want to tell them

that tis the season to be gifting, and if they feel like it they can give the gift of Patreon? Yeah, but you said you can give the gift of Patreon. It's really easy now. We're going to link this in our show notes, but there's also a direct link you can go to which is? Yeah, it's patreon.com slash truecrimeobsessed slash gift.

Gift no S. No S. Gift. It's in the show notes. We'll pin it in the Facebook group too if you want to. This is a thing that you all have been asking for years, a way to like gift a Patreon subscription. You can do it for a month, for three months, for a year.

It's up to you, it's all there, it's super easy. And what a lovely thing to do. And one other thing we gotta tell them. What? If you're on the Patreon or you wanna join the Patreon, this is the month that we send the calendars out to the HeroBell tier. So there are 12 original designs by this amazing, they're like caricatures by this amazing Broadway

artist. His name is Squigs. He's so famous. He does them for every Broadway show and he does them for us too. I know. It's amazing. It's such an honor to get like a Squigs original. And then yeah, so it's every month is like a nice little fun, hilarious TCO thing.

Yes. Right. Every year for the last few years, we've had Squigs make us this calendar. We sent it out. If you're on the Hereabouts here, you're getting the calendar. If you upgrade to the Hereabouts here, while supplies last, we will send you a calendar. And we've got plenty, so upgrade if you want to. In the month of December.

In the month of December and into January, Steve says, if we have stuff left over. Because beyond that, you won't want it because you'll already have your calendar. Yeah, that's true. But anyway, it's the Hereabouts here. Go get it if you want it. Great. Girl, what are we talking about today? We are doing the Girl on the Milk Carton on Peacock. It's two episodes. We're doing it in one episode. And it's a wild ride. It is.

Jonelle Matthews of Greeley, Colorado, three, five days before Christmas, disappeared from her home. Days before Christmas disappeared from her home. Greeley was a sleepy little town until December 1984. No forced entry, no signs of struggle. She's vanished. It's believed she's the victim of a kidnapping. She was one of the first ones on the milk carton. Someone in Greeley knew something. A monster tapped on the shoulder of law enforcement because he couldn't help but to do it.

Statements made by Pinky made him a person of interest. The former candidate for governor of Idaho. He's an enigma. Is he a criminal? Is he a witness? Who is he? I didn't know she existed until six days after the fact. I never let myself fear failure. Failure wasn't an option. It was like a quest for me. I had to find out if he killed Janelle Matthews.

You couldn't even believe something like that would happen. It affected people for decades. It still does. This is the case of Janelle Matthews. And right at the top, we meet her sister, Jennifer. And Jennifer is driving us on the walk that Janelle took to school every single day. She says it's a mile and a half each way.

Nobody does that anymore. Yeah, we're in Greeley, Colorado in the 80s. So she's kind of saying, this is what we used to do. And she's very aware, like, yeah, no one, no kid walks to school anymore. Walking a mile and a half to school, that is, I mean, we walk six blocks at the AC school every morning.

I'm like, are we still doing this? I know, after my career in the marathon, the next day I was like, I, my legs hurt. I walked a lot. You had sympathy aches from there. That's exactly what it was, it was sympathy aches. But yeah, I'm assuming it's also like a group of kids. Everyone's like sort of picking each other up on the way.

It's just cold, it's corn fields, a mile and a half is a long way to go. Yeah, but we see the house they grew up in. Yeah. And she explains, you the house they grew up in. Yeah. And she explains, you know, like everything was great. Everyone felt really safe until December 20th, 1984. And this is always really bad, but like the added sadness and heaviness of the holidays

in this story in particular is really- Listen, I think about that all the time whenever something like this happens around the holidays or a loved one die, it's just the way, like can we have one nice thing to look forward to every year? You know what I mean? Absolutely not, 100%. We don't deserve that, do we?

No, we don't. We don't. I'd be, so let's, so Jim is Janelle's dad and Gloria is her mom. And Janelle is, you know, she was three and a half years younger than Jennifer who's here with us today. And we learned Janelle was the planner. My sister, she would be the life of our quiet family

because she was the planner. As long as you are OK with what she had planned, come and join her. Jennifer, the sister says, as long as you were OK with what she was planning, come and join her. But hell hath no fury. That's right. If you didn't like what she was doing,

you know what, you're on your own today. Too bad. Get out of here. She's a party girl. But she just seems awesome. She just seems that, like, you know, her and today. Too bad. Too bad, get out of here. She's a party girl. But she just seems awesome. She just seems that like, you know, her and Jennifer were really different. And I think that Jennifer feels some guilt about that now

because she was saying that like, you know, it was a big personality. She loved music. She loved rock and roll. She was fiery. She loved to perform. And Jennifer says like, she got in my space and I didn't really want that.

Yeah, Jennifer says like, she kind of wanted no part of that. And I, it's kind of, it's really refreshing. refreshing. So Jennifer. Thank you for being so honest about it Right shit happens all the time and like it's real and it's okay and you're not a bad sister I know that person but that is very real I just I loved hearing Sarah Turney say and in that documentary that she like forgives her younger self for feeling You know or or at least like she realizes now that her younger self doesn't need any forgiveness You know, and I want to say to Jennifer girl girl, like let yourself off the hook. Like you did nothing wrong. You were just being a sister

This has nothing to do with anything that you did Yeah, and I don't want to assign Jennifer anything because she feels she seems very like she gets it like she's on our side But it was just refreshing to hear like I kind of want to know part of her And like we were just at that age and I think that is so real and just refreshing to hear. Uh-huh So it's December 20th, 1984. Everyone was doing something different that night. Yeah, so the mom we learned had not seen her parents in a couple of years.

So the mom on the 20th is flying to LA to surprise her parents for Christmas. So she's spending Christmas away from her husband and kids to go be with her parents as a surprise. Now Jim the dad, Gloria the mom, and Jennifer the sister are all here with us today. So Gloria the mom at five o'clock, she's flying out to visit her parents

and surprise them for Christmas. Jennifer had a home basketball game that night and Janelle had a concert. Janelle was in the honor choir at her middle school and it was gonna be held at what we call the United Bank in town. Because she was in the Honor Choir? I have to note, be still my choir nerd heart.

I tried so hard to be in choir, I could not read music at all, so I was... You have to read music? I thought you just had to sing. Or you kind of have to be able to follow it. I was kindly asked to leave the choir, because I was really... Sure, that went over real well. Well, I... It was very embarrassing. At the end of the thing, I was kind... Sure, that went over real well. Well, it was very embarrassing.

At the end of the thing, I was kind of like, I guess... It's probably more like I saw myself out because I was like, this isn't going to be fun if I can't do this. I can't do this. Oh, no. But she's an honors choir. That's so sweet. Good for her.

And we'll learn more about the event, but what Janelle is doing that night is that she's performing at this big venue. It's going to be televised. The Union Bank? I'm like, I think going to be televised. The Union Bank? I'm like, I think that's actually the bank. The United Bank venue? Oh, yeah, the United Bank. Or it looks like a bank.

Is it not a bank? I don't know. I don't know. I know it's a big deal. Because we see the building today, and the staircase where they're singing, I'm like, it's all still there. But it does look like the lobby of a bank.

That's all I'm saying. And Gloria is saying, look, Janelle had a cold. She had to stay home from school for a few days before this, but she really wanted to perform in the concert, which means you had to go to school that day. That is such a dumb rule. I remember that rule. If I could, for one second, we had Jamie Haley,

who was like the greatest singer of all time, and she, like every year you would look forward to her performance in the talent show, she really sang. Like she was like an incredible singer. And one year she was really sick for three days, and they wouldn't let her sing in the talent show, and everyone protested. And ultimately, they let her sing,

and you know what she sang? I was going to ask. Black Velvet. Oh, my god. I know. Yes, it was Black Velvet. What? It was, it was, it was like.

But like, were you sick, or were you not? No, she was really sick. It was Donna Martin graduates protest. Like, we were going to walk out, and they finally let her. They're like, fine, Jamie can sing in the talent show. But? No, she was really sick. It was Donna Martin graduates protest. Like we were going to walk out and they finally let her, they're like fine, Jamie can sing in a talent show. But she still like wailed and sound awesome? She closed out the talent show. I mean, it's a performance of a lifetime.

She's a closer too. Who is this person? Jamie Haley. She's a goddess. She walks among us mere mortals. Jesus Christ. I know. Black velvet, holy shit.

She's saying black, I'll never forget it. Was it on a karaoke track? Was someone playing live? Oh yes, it was some kind of track. It had to have been some kind of black. I'll never forget it. Was it on a karaoke track? Was someone playing live? Oh, yes, it was some kind of track. It had to have been some kind of track. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Damn. I know. But anyway.

That's legendary. That's like legendary behavior. Legendary. Legendary behavior. Like, to have a shred of that. I know. I know. I know. And I say this with love, like audacity. I know.

In the good way. To have that for two seconds would be too powerful. The Donna Martin graduates, if at all. We were not having it. No. So Janelle goes to school, obviously, because she can't perform if she takes the day off. Yeah.

But the family, like, it's a really stressful day because Janelle's really pissed because now her mom's going away for Christmas. And Janelle, now they can't celebrate Christmas until her mom comes home from California on the 26th. And it's kind of like not the same. I'm on Janelle's side on this. As a kid, of course.

You know what I mean? Whatever the reasons are that the mom is going, I get whatever. Not my business. But I understand why Janelle is upset. And so when Gloria the mom leaves at six o'clock on December 20th, it's like a little bit tense. Yes. And she gives Janelle a kiss goodbye, and she doesn't say this, but like that's the last time she sees her.

That's, yeah. And she says like, you know, and you hear this all the time in these cases, but everybody in their life is like, I wish I could have done this different. I would have done that different. She replays that moment in her head every night before, but I'm sure. And the holidays are really stressful, as much as December is so much fun, because there are a lot of events, it's stressful,

because there are a lot of events. And now, you know, like, so that night, Jim takes Janelle to McDonald's before her concert. Dad of the year. Dad of the year. I mean, take her to concert. Down of the year. Down of the year. I mean, take her to McDonald's out of the year. And now Jim is in a really tough position, right? Yes.

Because both of his daughters have big events. And he's one person. He can't be in two places at once. And Jim has to make a decision that many people listening, I'm sure, have gone through on a regular basis. I mean, even with Steve and I, yes, this happens to every parent. You've got to decide.

So Jim takes Janelle to McDonald's in the winter. Oh, it hits so good. I'm thinking about the double cheeseburger meal right now. The fucking crispiest Coke in the world. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So, they go to McDonald's before the concert. Now, Jim drops Janelle off at the bus. All the kids are going to the concert together on the bus.

He watched her get on that bus. He waved to her. Now, Jim goes to Jennifer's basketball game. I had to kind of choose between, you know, was I going to go to the concert or was I going to go to the basketball game? With my sports interest and everything, I gravitated towards going to that basketball game. Again, two daughters, one of him, his wife is away.

He can't be in two places at once. This is what happens. The thing about the concert too is that it's being broadcast on cable that night. It's televised. I mean, that's a really big deal. And Janelle was front and center. And we see footage of it, which is amazing.

She's front and center with her friend, Deanna Ross. Deanna's in the back. Deanna's like. Thanks Deanna's parents for forcing her to endure a lifetime of, oh my God, what? Your name is Deanna Ross? To which she has to reply, no, it's Deanna. It's Deanna, it's not the same.

But I love Deanna and her father, Russ Ross. Her dad's been through it enough. Like, please don't give this guy any more shit. Russ Ross, this is a generational issue in this family with the naming. But I love Deanna and I love Ross and I love Janelle's parents also. I also like love this community

because, you know, the mom's away. So like the dad's a single dad for the weekend. Like he's relying on the community to help. So he just knows, I didn't know exactly what time Janelle would get home, but I knew that somebody would bring her home. Like one of her friend's parents would totally do it. that for the weekend, like he's relying on the community to help, so he just knows, I didn't know exactly what time Janelle would get home, but I knew that somebody would bring her home, like one of her friend's parents would totally do it.

Because Janelle and Deanna are super close, so the bus brings all the kids back, and Russell Ross, Russ Ross, says in the sweetest way, he was like, she asked for a ride home, and I just said, you bet, he's like, I've given her, it would be weird if I didn't give her a ride home that day, I've given her thousands of rides home, the girls, talk about immaculate vibes in this car.

I know. The girls are on a high after the performance. The girls were giddy about, you know, hey, we were on cable, maybe they'll want our signatures. We were just talking about Christmas break, exchanging gifts, maybe talking about boys. They're talking about boys and Christmas presents. Just, I mean, shining, glistening vibes, loving this car ride.

While we're here in the restaurant, last story I promise, because we've got some serious shit to get to. My mom went to college with a woman named Nancy Ann Ciencianis. So her name is Nancy Ann Ciencianis. Oh my god. Why do you do this?

Like, why do people do this? Like, answer for yourself. I know. Nancy, Anne, Sien, Siennes. That's insane. That's a real name. That really happened. Well, it shouldn't be.

The minute she turns 18, it should be something else. Nancy, Anne, Sien, Siennes. That's insane. Who is Anne? Anne must be this fucking saint on Earth that her parents insisted on middle naming her that. I know. Who is Anne?

I don't know. But maybe they didn't even do the math until it was too late. You know what I mean? That is insane. How do you name a kid without saying it out loud? Should it be Bridget? Should it be Joanne? No, why don't we go with Anne?

Nobody's thinking any further than the middle name. This is a chau- and it's also like, stop being selfish. It's their name. Again, think of them at recess on the playground. Between like Nancy Allison, Cien Cienas or like Nancy and Cien Cienas. It's like, stop being selfish for two seconds. It's not really your name.

They didn't choose to be born and they didn't choose their name and now you have to suffer. It's ridiculous. I'm really sorry that we didn't ask you all to pull over for that because that's kind of an explosive moment. Like, there's probably coffee all over dashboards, all over this country right now. Oh my God. Well, get used.

Don't even bother cleaning up because we got a long way to go. It's true. So it's 825, this little perfect... Like, imagine what they're listening to in the car. Just so much fun. Amazing. 825, the car gets to Janelle's house. The garage was part of the way up, kind of normal. Of course, the headlights went into the garage.

Nothing unusual, I guess. I told her, I'll see you tomorrow. She turned around and waved. We always had her flick the lights on and off just to make sure she made it in and everything's fine. Deanna and her dad always had Janelle flick the lights on and off to make sure she was safe inside. I love this family.

It was the exact same ritual in my house. Love it. So 9.30, Jim the dad gets home and he knows it was 9.30 because he was like listening to the news on the way home. It was the night, whatever. He walks into the house and calls for Janelle and there's no response. But he knows Janelle was definitely home at some point

because the TV was on and she had like taken her shoes and tights off. Is there nothing better than taking your fucking tights off when you get home? The way he described that the shoes look like they had been kicked off. Of course they were. It's like the best thing in the world.

She couldn't wait. Couldn't wait. Today, I can't wait to get those goddamn tights off. Yeah. So the dad's like, she probably didn't hear me. Maybe she's upstairs. Cause like the TV's out. Like obviously Janelle got home safely. Yeah, exactly.

So Jim goes upstairs to look for Janelle to say hi. Janelle isn't there. We immediately know something's wrong. Yeah. Jennifer, the sister gets home from the basketball game around 10 and she's like, I could tell right away that something was off. And the dad is kind of frantic. He's asking her if she knows where Janelle is.

She doesn't know. All of a sudden, he's calling all of her friends. Yeah, by 10 10. And remember, it's 1985. So 30 minutes later, because he was waiting for Jennifer to get home. Maybe they're together. I don't know.

And so now they're calling everyone. So Russell, the best, Deanna's father who drove her home, talks about dropping her off at 8 30 PM. She flicked the lights. And he's like, yeah, well, I remember the garage door at 8.30 p.m. She flicked the lights and he's like, yeah, well I remember the garage door was wide open when I got there, so you know, I figured someone was home, everything was fine. Yeah, the dad immediately, this scares Jim to death.

He's like, that is not normal. And he says, I know for a fact the garage door was not open when I left. The minute he's like, back up a second. I know. It was what? I know, and the fact that Janelle didn't clock it, you know what I mean?

Like that like. Or maybe she did, but it's like you're home, you're going to the house. We skipped this when we got to that part, but Russ says he noticed that the garage door was open and that didn't seem weird to him. You know what I mean? So he said it was like partway open.

Maybe it's one of those things you remember in hindsight that you kind of like, wait a second, the garage door. I think it's something in a neighborhood like this that you kind of clock, but it's like, what are you going to do? It's an I-30, like she's home safe, she flicked the lights. It's also like, this is second, the garage door. I think it's something in a neighborhood like this that you kind of clock, but it's like, what are you gonna do? It's an I-30, she's home safe, she flicked the lights. It's also like, this is the safest town in America, we're told, nothing bad ever happens here.

It's just a weird thing. Even if people notice it, they're not gonna do anything about it. Yeah, so by 11 o'clock, the police have been called, and Detective Mike Prill gets the call. And I wanna point out, too, that everyone is saying, I'm glad that we very quickly are like, she did not run away. The sister is like, she didn't run away.

The dad is like, she would never have run away. I love that that is pretty quickly taken off the table. Yeah. So the two cops are Mike and Mark. Yeah. And yeah, they basically say, look, the garage door is open. There's no sign of a struggle. There's no forced entry.

She kicked her shoes off. Like this is typical 13 year old behavior. Yeah. And her coat is missing. Like clearly she's not a runaway. And when they said that, I was like, oh my God, can we play that again? I know. I know. This is typical 13 year old behavior. Yeah. And her coat is missing. Like clearly she's not a runaway. And when they said that, I was like, oh my God, can we play that again?

I know, I know. 10 million times and louder and slower for everybody else. She's not a runaway. And like, thank God, right? But here's the most important thing. Yeah. There were shoe prints in the snow in the backyard that appeared to have been raked out.

As far as Jim could tell, they were not his. And Jim is unable to explain why it looks the way it looked. The footprints led from the garage to the garden level windows in the back of the home, as if someone had been looking into the windows and then raked the tracks out. The Prince had been raked out? What they say, meaning that someone tried to destroy the Prince. Now that is also a detail that is never released to the public. So keep that in mind.

And the prince go from the garage to this, what they describe as a garden-level window in the back of the home. So it's like, oh my god, someone was looking in the window, stalking the house and Janelle. I cannot imagine a scarier moment. Like, you're looking at that from the outside. It's dark out. She's not even 13. She's home by herself. The house is dark and there's a scarier moment. Like, looking at that from the outside, it's dark out,

she's not even 13, she's home by herself, the house is dark and there's a man looking through the windows, it scares me to death. And the cops are thinking like, okay, well, maybe the person probably knew, the family at least, right? Like, they knew Gloria, the mom, would be away, they knew Janelle would be home alone.

It's either that or it's completely random and I honestly don't know what's worse. And the cops keep saying, like, there's no sign of a struggle, there's no forced don't know what's worse. And the cops keep saying, like, there's no sign of a struggle, there's no forced entry, the garage door was open, the TV was on. Like, everything seems normal here. Like, it seems like Janelle would have gone

with somebody that she trusted. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, I know even now the statistics are, if kids are kidnapped, it's like 99% of the time it's somebody that they know. I'm like, we gotta stop thinking. Like, this is so scary to me that, like, it does happen that kids are abducted by strangers.

And it's also scary to think about that she was home alone enough to get herself a snack and kick her shoes off and watch TV and someone was watching her do it. I don't wanna make anybody feel bad. The killer is the killer. But we know that she got home a little bit after eight and the dad doesn't get home until 9.30.

That is too long for a 12 year old to be home by themselves. Well, it's like 8.30 to 9.30. It was a little after eight eight and the dad doesn't get home until 9.30, that is too long for a 12-year-old to be home by themselves. Well, it's like 8.30 to 9.30, it's like... It was a little after eight, is what Russ says, and he walks in the door at 9.30. Like, for me, it's too... that is too long. Now, again... For you now in 2024. I was just gonna say, it's 2024. I know when I was that age,

I was absolutely left home alone by myself, probably longer than that. Or worse, I was left home, home like tending to my younger siblings. You know what I mean? I get it. I'm not blaming the dad. This was, this was acceptable at the time. It just scares me to death now.

Yeah. So Gloria, oh my God, Gloria, the mother calls home to tell Jim her husband, Hey, you know, I made it to California safely. All good. So now Jim, who's devastated, has to tell her what's going on. And so by the next day, December 21st, 1984, Janelle is missing for 12 hours.

The documentary gets this wrong. Did you see this? It says missing 12 days, and it really fucked me up. For a second, I was like, wait, what? Oh really? Yeah, it's like a typo in the documentary. Oh God, that's so annoying.

I've never seen that before. That's not cool. No before no because I was like it really fucked me up for a minute but anyway they fucked that up it's 12 hours later yeah and so Jennifer the sister gets a police escort to school she showed up to school in a police car which had to have been incredibly surreal and I gotta say the mom by the time I came to California my sister and brother-in-law picked me up and I called up Jim and I said, Hi honey, I'm here safely. That's when the nightmare really, for both of us, really hits. I flew home that night.

I was crying the whole way, just missing her a lot. She got to the house. OK, let me just tell my husband I landed safely, and then just like hangs up and just goes home in the most devastating, horrifying way you can imagine. And the way that she says, I flew home sobbing and missing her. On December 21, 1984. Yeah, and I can just feel that feeling of like,

I may never see my daughter again. Like, I just, I can feel it. It's just so awful. So it's the morning of December 21st, 12 hours missing, and the cops are talking to everyone before they leave for work. Like, they're knocking on doors at 6.30 in the morning. Streets are closed off.

You can't leave the area without talking to a cop. They're looking everywhere. Bridges, fields, nearby irrigation ditches, which is just more nightmare fuel in case you need it. But a neighbor says, actually, last night at around like, around 8.42, my dog dog started barking like crazy and my dog doesn't bark like that so that's super weird and I'm thinking with a specific time like that this neighbor is people like us something out of the ordinary happens

what time is it? I was that's exactly he looked at the microwave he's like with something weird is going on 1984 1984 seems like super fan I don't know you watch he's looking at the super 8, maybe he's like super fan. I don't know, you look at your watch. He's looking at the Super 8 machine. Oh, whatever. He's looking at the VCR. Maybe, I don't know. He looks at the VCR.

Done. 1984, right? I have no concept of time. Yeah, me either. But he, like, I was thinking the same thing, that the fact that he knew that it was 842 meant that he like, something is going on, I'm clocking it in case I am asked.

And then the horror movie of being actually asked the next day. Right. Because Janelle disappeared between like 8 15 and 9 30 Yeah, the dog barks at 8 42 and Jim the dad got home at 9 30 Yes So it doesn't really the cops are trying to think about like was this a random intruder or someone who knew the family and they're Thinking they're just like theorizing but they're thinking the proposition for some drifter Coming through town and just stumbling into a house

that conveniently had what he wanted and then just vanishes into the night, it's so fantastical that it comes across as impossible. Everything worked out for him then. Yes. You know, Gloria was out of town, Jim the dad was at the basketball game. But not everything, cause the dog started barking.

Right, so we have a time. That's the one thing because this does get me that like no one saw anything. Well, that's the other thing. It's like how did he take Janelle's described as fiery. So like how did no one hear them? How did no one see them? Was she overpowered and drugged and where are her footprints? So she was carried out of the house. Yeah. And I mean, we can talk more about it when we get to what we learn happened, but we don't know when she was subdued.

You know what I mean? So the family's devastated. Deanne and her father are devastated. Everyone is trying to figure this out. It's also all over the news. And it's on the news at night. It's on the radio during the day. Like, the whole community is sort of mobilized to, like,

the verbiage they're using is like, find Janelle and bring her home for Christmas, which just like rips your fucking heart out. So by December 24th, the FBI enters the chat. Right, because it's gotten so much news coverage, they're getting tips from everywhere and they're overwhelmed. We're told the Greeley Police Department is a small force, like something about 80 officers, and they cannot manage the volume of tips they're getting so the FBI steps in. Yeah, and also Jim Christie, the pastor,

is the one at the house answering all the phone calls coming into Janelle's house, because he doesn't want the family to have to deal with it. And everyone's like, this is a really kind thing to do. And I'm like, is it? That feels suspicious, someone gatekeeping the phone calls? Like, it's the nature of this gig, dear listener. Totally. I would want that.

I got to think that way. I can't, like, if God forbid anything were to happen to Daisy, I could not be, like, fielding the phone call. Yeah, but I hear that, and I'm like, we got a middleman, huh? Yeah. I know. Listen, you're not the only one pointing fingers. You know what I mean?

You know? Everyone's like, we're going to get to the pointing fingers in just a second. OK, well, here's something weird. Yeah. The cops get a phone call, someone claiming to be a pastor named Panky. Like last name Panky.

Because if it's the first name Panky. Because if it's the first name Panky. I hate Pastor Panky. And this pastor named Panky calls and says, look, oh man, do I have a story for you? He straight out said that someone had come forward to him and confessed, but that Panky was prevented from telling Statler who this individual was, hiding behind, for lack of a better word, pastoral privilege. I'm just gonna let you know that I know,

but I can't give you any more information to which I say, then why are we here? Why pick up the phone and make the phone call? I have literally, then why are you calling, girl? When I wrote that, I heard your voice saying it and exactly the way that you said it. No one's preventing you from anything, Panky. You picked up the phone.

Do the right thing. That's also against the law. Look, I looked into this. A priest will tell you that if you go into confession, a therapist will tell you if you go into your therapy session, you cannot confess to a murder. They are mandatory reporters. You know what I mean? If you're a danger to yourself or others.

Yes. If you've committed a murder, they have to turn you in. And the cops should know that. The cops do not take this very seriously because they tell us a few days later, this pinky, he called in the report that somebody confessed to murder him, but then he shows up at the police station

a few days later to say, disregard, just kidding. No, disregard. Forgot it never happened, peace be with you, bye. Right. And they're like, what? I know. What's going on? And then this guy was like, never heard from again.

And I'm like, all right, I hate this this guy we're told the cops think it's a prank like if that's a prank that guy should go to fucking prison but I'm sure of course but how many times do we hear in every case like the prank phone calls to the family and that's why sometimes cops don't want to ask the public because then you get false tips and you get pranks yeah people are cruel I know we wouldn't have a job if they weren't. So like, I'm sure that kind of shit happens a lot. More than anything, yeah. I mean, how many times have we actually heard

our tip getting called in that leads to solving the case? 99% the other way. Like, it's crazy. So now we meet Angela Hicks. In 1984, we were living west of Greeley about three miles. And at that point we had no TV, no radio, but it was cornfields and open space between there and the mountains. She says it was just cornfields and open space between there and the mountains.

Now her husband Steve was quote, never into Christmas. This year was different though, because Steve's dad wants to spend Christmas together before people start dying. Because he's literally like, not sure how many Christmases I have on this God forsaken earth. Muster up some joy and cheer, Steve. We're celebrating this year. And you know what? Steve says, absolutely not, dad.

We're not doing it. And Steve sucks. He sucks. And it's not just about the holiday season specifically. It's kind of about that, though. It is. But for me, the reason I think he sucks so bad, and we'll get into why later, but right now I'm like I know everything

I need to know about you. You don't want to celebrate anything ever Yeah, like what a fucking miserable existence and his whole thing too is like it's fine You want to be the Grinch and not celebrate fine, but like you know that he's depriving the joke Like no Christmas music in the house. No Christmas tree. No presents for the kid He's got to ruin it for everybody everybody and also don't do that parents I don't know like let's celebrate before people start dying. I know. That is manipulative and stupid and it never fucking works.

No, no. Just don't manipulate your kids that way. And also, who wants to hang out with Steve? Anyway, Steve sucks. The worst. We're gonna sort of tell you what is going on in Steve and Angela's lives at the same time of what was going on in Janelle's disappearance, right?

Yes, yes. So 18 hours after Janelle goes missing, here's what's going on with shitty Steve and Angela. So the afternoon of the 21st, all of a sudden Steve came home and said, get us packed, we're leaving tomorrow morning. I felt so bad because we had two great Dane dogs. Steve said, don't worry about the dogs,

I dumped the dogs. Get us ready to go. Pack your own fucking bags. Pack your own. He does this to her endlessly. But also like now you want to go visit your parents? Also you want to go so bad? You pack your shit.

Right, because he had said, we're not going to Big Bear to go to see my parents. Suddenly on December 21st, 18 hours after Janelle went missing, it's all hands on deck. We got to get the fuck out of here. Now, this minute now So Angela says we're just gonna go by this real fast Angela says that Steve quote dumps the dogs and I have to assume that

Means some wonderful person found them and gave them the life they deserve But there's no question that like those dogs were taken some way to another home and they had a better life Of course they did that's what happened as long as you're away from this shitty person Steve. You're okay Yeah, so they get to the family's house and guess what? Shitty Steve is not welcome. Because he immediately gets in a huge fight with his father and then he tells Angela once again, get everything together and pack the car and go do it yourself.

Don't you know he hates celebrating, he's a miserable sack of shit and he's abusive to Angela. Do you not know everything you need to know about this guy? 100%. So they're in the car. Oh God, this is insane. Sitting in silence, by the way. Yes.

Because three hours into the drive. And you know why? Because it's all Christmas music on that day and he doesn't want to hear it. And also, like, Angela might like it, so let's not do it if it's going to be nice for Angela. So they're sitting in silence, and after three hours, Steve finally puts the radio on.

Yes. Now, the news about Janelle is on every local station. It's been 18 hours. So they're sitting in silence and after three hours, Steve finally puts the radio on. Yes. Now the news about Janelle is on every local station. It's been 18 hours. And it's all Steve wants to listen to. Steve said, keep looking, keep looking. He was so focused on these news reports, over and over. I'm flipping the radio dial for the entire rest

of the trip home. She says she's got to do this for the rest of the ride home. Like just being screamed at for to do that, to like getting barked orders. And also, like if you're Angela, are you like, why? Like, why are you so like it's all the same information? It's, you know. Yeah. And also, like, she's definitely been broken down. So I don't even think she's and I'm not saying I'm not. Angela does amazing.

She's on the right side of history here, but in that moment you're just like, as long as he stops yelling at me, I'll just fucking change the channel. But on one of these stations, they hear the name Russ Ross. Now Russ Ross is one of our best friends because he drove Janelle home, he and Deanna are like besties with Janelle.

So Steve, shitty Steve, knows Russ. Russ is Steve's boss and Steve hates him. Right. And Steve is now thrilled to hear that Russ is mixed up in this awful tragedy because Russ was the last adult to see Janelle. And so Steve is thrilled to hear that Russ Ross is like maybe gonna get in trouble for this.

Because now people are like theorizing, they're like calling in and they're like, well I think the dad who drove her home has to have something to do with it. Now Steve is loving this because he hates Russ, so he loves this. Forget the fact that it's a horrible tragedy on Christmas.

Right, right, right. And that a little girl is missing. Right. If Russ is involved in something horrible, that's really great for Steve. Yes. And Angela, the wife, is saying, like, obviously, this was very strange behavior.

I just didn't understand what was going on. So by December 28, they'd been home for a couple of days. So now we're home. We're kind of going to a normal mode for, you know, two or three days. All of a sudden, I smelled smoke. And at the back of the property, there's a car on fire. And Steve is standing near the car, kind of leaning on a shovel. Steve has set his car on fire, and he's just standing there watching it burn. And I'm like, okay, Steve did this, right? I mean, no question.

The minute you, I mean, of course, I'm like, why are we giving a shit about this horrible guy? Like, now we gotta get Angela out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta find justice for Janelle. We gotta get, I'm like, but what the fuck? Oh, when he's sitting there in the middle of a field,

watching it burn, I'm like, oh, let's get this guy. Exactly, and when you're Angela, you're just got to, like, you're like, you know, for her, like, once again, we've got the hindsight of the documentary. For her, she must be like, what the fuck is going on here? Because it's like another day in terror for Angela. And also, like, you know, probably the only news reports Angela's heard about this was in the car,

because they don't have a radio in the house. They don't have a TV. She's completely isolated from the world. By design. By design. So let's go back to the case. Time is going by. It's now January 1985. The little evidence they have is kind of growing old.

And time is the worst enemy of a case like this. In all cases, but especially when someone's missing. And, like, they've been getting call after call after call, but no leads. Nothing new has come from that. And so they say, like, at this point, they've got to look at the dad. Because the dad, remember the circumstance. Like, the person who took her, either it would have to have been random and he got quote, lucky,

or it would have been a person who would have known, the mom was out of the house, the sister was at a basketball game, there was this window of time that Janelle was going to be home alone. And the only person who would have known that would have been the dad. Right. And also, like, you got to start at the center

and work our way out, right? Yes. So now Jim the dad goes in, remember it's 1985. Yeah. He goes in to take a polygraph test because he's like, I see this on TV all the time, like it seems fairly ordinary. All he wants to do is help. He knows he didn't do anything.

But like when they give you a polygraph, you would think they would say, you just got to stay calm and give us the answers. They don't give him that instruction. The police? No, they're not going to do that, girl. They're not going to help you pass the poly on a cold case that happened during Christmas

when all eyes are on the cop reading this shit solved yesterday. So Jim's like, no problem, fellas, what time should I be there? Is eight a.m. early enough for you? I can make it 7.30, happy to help. And really, Jim wants to help. This is his daughter.

Yeah, of course. And we hear it. We hear the recording of the polygraph test. It's contentious right away. I do not know where she is or who took her. That's it. Are you sure? Absolutely.

Absolutely sure. I don't want somebody coming in here reading me the scriptures of something just to barry me out to try and get me to confess something. I would like the goldmine to have my daughter there and get out of the public eye. The cops are doing that thing, talking to him like he did it, and they know he did it, and they have all this proof

because cops can lie to you. So of course, Jim is getting worked up, which is not good for the results of the polygraph, and he fails it because of course he does. And they say that, like, we had to, like, look at Jim because we had no other options, and I'm like, that's just not a good enough reason, girl. But they're saying it out loud.

They are saying it out loud. They're saying it out loud. And like, also, I know that this doesn't, it shouldn't mean anything, but like, the dad does not give off killer vibes. You know what I mean? No. Like, this is the man who, like, you can see on the face of it.

He did not kill his daughter. Your heart, I mean, if you're a real person, your heart has to break a little to be desperate. If you're a cop, right, you're desperate for a break in this case. This is a grieving father. It's January. He just spent Christmas and New Year's morning his daughter with his family and you're calling

him in and not being honest about them. Your heart has to break a little knowing this guy didn't fucking do it. Think about the difference between him and Alyssa Terny's dad. My God. Right? So like Alyssa Terny's dad like doesn't want to give a formal interview to any of the cops when he it's talking to anybody. He's glib, he's sarcastic, he's showing no emotion. This dad, Jim, is like, I couldn't get to the police station fast enough, strapped me into the polygraph machine.

He slept outside just to be there early so he wouldn't be late to take the poly to be helpful. Exactly. Like, come on. That, to me, is like, where is the humanity here in this? Right. Right. So, it's February 1985, Angela, who's married to miserable Steve is working at the church that everyone goes to. As a janitor.

And Angela's like, I have to tell you, I am not overselling this. She said her life, it was very, very hard. They were very, very poor. He had like a car dealership where he would buy insurance totals and fix up the cars. They were struggling. Struggling.

They've got two young kids. I mean, like life was very, very hard for them. So they're at church. Everyone is sort of like, that's where the social life is. That's where Angela's working. Like everyone's at church. One day the pastor is just like, hey, everyone, I heard from God. Good news. The Lord says that Janelle's going to be safely returned and reunited with her family. Steve was sitting to my left and all of a sudden he says, false prophet. And he stands up and he says, false prophet again. Screaming false prophet and making a scene.

Now look, I will never, ever defend Steve ever. But he's not wrong here. This is mean and irresponsible and cruel to do. And we're not honoring Janelle in any way by doing this bullshit at church. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also just like, Steve, you're just not trying

to get away with this, I guess? No, not at all. You know what I mean? Not at all, which is like very, I mean, I would love to talk to Dr. Amber just about this specifically. But like pastors and people that stand up in front of the congregation, don't do this. Because it's not, it's cruel and it's not right to Janelle Dr. Ann Burgess about this specifically. But like pastors and people that stand up

in front of the congregation, don't do this. Because it's cruel and it's not right to Janelle and the spirit of Janelle and her family and friends and loved ones. Also, he's so loud. They've gotta wrestle him out of the church. He's escorted out of the church. This guy has never been in four walls

that he's invited to stay into. He's kicked out of every single establishment he goes into, whether it's his parents or the church or anywhere else. He's like Golden at daycare. Golden at daycare. The only reason Golden gets kicked out of daycare is because he jumps over the fences. He jumps. He just, because what he does, you know why he does? He attaches to one of the workers

and if that worker takes a break, Golden will lose his shit and Golden can jump eight feet. He'll jump over the fence and then he gets in trouble. And then I get in trouble. Well, it's parenting for you. You're absolutely right. You know what I mean? But Angela is saying that like, once again, she's like, of course, this was insane behavior, but I couldn't ask him about it. I was too scared.

It was too, it was too unsafe. And she's also mortified because the church is like the main hub of her life. And her job! It's where she works. And everyone like, oh my God, there's Steve getting escorted out because he's screaming false prophet. And now again, Angela's more isolated. She can't say anything. And now like, you know, Steve is a nightmare who rules by fear. So what are you going to do? You're like, she's just walking on eggshells, like what

whatever's softer than an eggshell. You know what I mean? And now it's like, the more he has an outburst like this, it makes her quieter because she's gonna be next. Right, exactly. Pack the car or you're next. Get my sandwich or you're next. Do this or you're next. And so she's just sort of this like shell of a person. So now we meet Eileen.

She's a family friend. I love her. When she first heard the rumor that it could be Jim the dad, she was absolutely furious. Furious at the idea that anybody would think that Jim could do that to his daughter. Janelle didn't run away and Jim could do that to his daughter. Right, Janelle didn't run away and Jim didn't do anything. Exactly, and so she's like,

I had to do something beyond what the police were doing or not doing. Because Janelle's been missing for 49 days. Yeah. So it's like enough already, something has to be done. And this always happens, some hero always comes to the front and she's like, I'm gonna be the one to organize everything.

She's like, she organizes the family, the friends, the community members. We had tens of thousands of posters printed. We were mailing them overseas. We started calling networks and trying to get the word out. Greeley and the whole city wanted to do something to help. We were going after the world. They're calling every network.

They're calling every radio station, every newspaper, doing absolutely everything. And eventually Eileen's like, you know who we should call? The President of the United States. Right to the top. Like, we should call the President. And she goes, the White House has a phone,

like let's just call it. Which is so funny, I was like, I guess I've never considered that. And I'm like, fuck yes, Eileen. Fuck yes, Eileen. You know who we should call? Come on, Eileen. The President.

Call the President, and you know what? It fucking works. So, March 7th, 1985, 77 days missing, President Ronald Reagan is on, I know, boo. But he's on television talking about the missing children in this country. He says Janelle's name, which is huge. He never talked about the AIDS crisis

or said anyone's name in that vein. But he says Janelle Matthews of Greeley, Colorado. No, the thing is, it's good in the sense that, like, he's talking about missing children. It's bad in the sense that, like, all this does is, like, remember when she was getting the local news reports and that was making it so they were getting seven billion phone calls to the police station?

This is that times a zillion. Because now with the... And they say, like, calls were coming in from all over the world because Reagan said her name, and not a single one led to any usable clue or tip. Well because the name of this documentary is The Girl on the Milk Carton. Yeah. So right after he does this, the president does this, the Milk Carton campaign starts and like some like similar projects trying to locate missing kids and it's about keeping

their images in the public eye and I was like, why did it stop? So I Googled it. Why did it stop? It stopped for a lot of reasons. One, legal issues about who could post a child's photo on a milk carton. Oh. It was causing a lot of emotional distress because kids were terrified, parents were traumatized.

Oh God, we're just trying to do the good thing. And there was like no success, like nothing, it didn't help, it hurt more than it helped. Is that right? Yeah, so like it says there was like no data on how many missing children like and it was just causing a lot of strife and like stranger danger and all of this stuff and so like it was a visible aspect of the movement but like did it actually help the

movement? No. Oh wow because it's so famous. It's like so famous. Wow. And so it says that the practice had begun to fade by the late 80s and then the Amber Alert system happened in the nineties. So by April 29th, 1985, Janelle is missing for 130 days. But now everyone's seeing Janelle everywhere. Like she's all over the country, according to these tips and no leads come from this. And because it's doing more harm than good, again, that's one of the reasons

we don't have the faces on the milk carton anymore. But like someone in town had to know something. Right, well someone in town had to know something. Right. Well, someone in town did. And then I'm like, speaking of horrible Steve, let's go back to 1978. Yeah, so we're back with Angela. We learned the Angela and Steve backstory.

So they got married in October 1978. And then she said, and this is what we always hear, things started to change very quickly once they got married. He's constantly having Angela do things for him, things he should be doing. Yes. And we get this horrifying story that they have things for him, things he should be doing. Yes. And we got this horrifying story that they have

this storage unit, and he sends her there to get his welding rods. And he says to her, make sure you make sure that unit is locked tight. Make sure you lock it up before you leave. The padlock, of course, is too big for her. It's an enormous. And again, why are you locking the storage unit?

What's in the storage unit, Steve? What's in there, girl? Like, but it's a huge padlock, like enormous. And it's too big for Angela to maneuver, so she kind of just does her best. Now that day, Steve actually does something for himself for once, going to the storage unit to check and make sure Angela did everything, right?

And because she couldn't. Think about how enormous a padlock has to be, that you can't maneuver it by yourself. Her as the wife, the assumption is that, like, whatever. Like, I couldn't do it. He'll fix it when he comes back. No big deal. But not really, because that's something

that she can get in trouble for. Well, but I think this is when the trouble starts. I think she might not necessarily have known what was coming yet. Fine, yeah. Because, so she says that, like, he comes back. The next thing I knew, he had that big, heavy padlock in his hand, and he just slammed that

into my face. And the next thing I knew, I was on the pavement. He hits her in the face with it. He knocks her out. He knocks her to the ground. Knocks her to the ground. Then he realizes that other people could have seen what he did. He's kicking her in the back telling her to get up, get in the car.

She's covered in blood. She describes like she's on the ground like tasting blood. It's just, get in the car. She's covered in blood. She's like, she describes like, she's on the ground like tasting blood. It's just, it's, I mean, it's horrifying. But it doesn't end there. He puts her in the car. She says they drive out to Red Feather Lake, which is where her dad has a cabin. This like rustic, off-the-grade cabin. She said there's no water, there's no food.

No heat or electricity? He takes her there, puts her inside, and tells her to stay in and not leave. And then he leaves, and she has no idea how long she's gonna be imprisoned there. Completely isolated, no way to contact anyone. He leaves her there for five days. With no food. What did she do?

She's just, like, suffering psychologically and physically. She has all of these injuries because he beat her. Yeah. And he finally comes back, has a bunch of groceries with him and says, make me something to eat. I hate him. I know. After five days. I hate him.

She says this was a sign of things to come for the rest of the marriage. Now she is of course terrified of him. And he's saying, he's reinforcing the saying, oh, I own you. Yes. We're married, you belong to me. And this is how it's gonna be forever now. And she thinks there's no way of ever getting out of it.

Cause Angela says, not only does he get scarier and more controlling and he makes her more silent and more isolated, he's threatening her. He told me, if you're thinking about leaving me, you're gonna watch me shoot both boys, then I'm gonna shoot you, Then I'm gonna kill myself. Is that what you want? Is that what you want?

I'm gonna make you watch me shoot both boys. Then I'll shoot you. Then I'll kill myself. And I'm like, can you just do the last one? I know. Can you just kill yourself and make the world a better place? Because honestly, what the fuck are you doing here? But truly, like when you are, Angela, in that situation, you have no money, you have no way out,

nothing is your own. These kids are so young, like you're just staring down the barrel of the rest of, like, this is the rest of my life. And at that point, the isolated cabin is a welcome change. Yes. Because you get some peace from this person. Ugh, well, that's how episode one ends. So we're on episode two, it's called Monster Revealed.

We jump forward to July 2019. Janelle has been missing for 34 years. And we're here episode two, it's called Monster Revealed. We jump forward to July 2019. Janelle has been missing for 34 years. And we're here with Detective Robert. And we hear him say, like, it took decades, but we found her. Right. So we don't know if they found her dead or alive,

but we know that they found, in 2019, they find her. So now we jump back to 2013. Detective Robert Cash has been assigned Janelle's case. He's also friends with her sister, Jennifer. From high school. They've known each other since ninth grade. Yes. And Jennifer's like, oh, cool, I guess.

Like, it's been so long. She's not expecting anything from it, I guess. She's like, OK, like, this guy I know from high school is, you know, he's been handed my sister's case. You know, it's been 30 years. I mean, after 30 years, I guess you just do that thing where you just cannot expect anything good is going to happen in the case. Well, then Robert's 30 years. I mean, after 30 years, I guess you just do that thing where you just cannot expect anything good is gonna happen in the case.

Well, then Robert's like, well, Jennifer, that's where you're wrong. I'm not gonna fail at this. Like, it's just not gonna happen. He says, you don't understand, this case lives in the hall of the Greeley Police Department. Everyone in the police department knew the family. They all worked on the case.

This is the case that, like, they all want to solve. They care so deeply about this. So now we jump back to 1999 with Angela and awful Steve. Angela is cleaning houses, and they are renting a house from one of her clients. They got married in 1978. He's been abusing her for 21 years. Yeah.

So now Steve is not paying their rent because he needs a lawyer because the cops are asking him about Janelle Matthews. Yeah. And he tells her that. And Angela says, I was in complete shock. This was the him about Janelle Matthews. Yeah, and he tells her that. And Angela says, I was in complete shock. This was the first time Janelle's name came up in 10 years. Because again, dear listener, I'm watching this and I'm like,

he's getting questioned for the disappearance of Janelle Matthews. And I'm like, what? In 1999. I know. And Angela says, what? I write. And then Steve, the violent and controlling nightmare, replies. He turned kind of halfway to me and said to me, do you really think I would hurt her when she looks so much like you? There's an expression that something

makes your blood run cold, but it's the only time in my life I've experienced it. There's that expression about your blood running cold that is the one and only time in my life it actually happened to me. But at the same time, the blood runs cold and something clicks. Right.

And she's like, Steve is involved in this. Right. She says all those odd occurrences, that quick trip to Big Bear, the dogs being quote, dumped, the car on fire, screaming false prophet at church, she's like, in that moment, that all took on a new meaning for me. Right.

So now we're doing a lot of time jumps here, but now like in 2019, Detective Mike is like, can I be honest with everyone here? I'm just gonna be super blunt. This investigation has been a mess from day one. A lot of missed opportunities, not a lot of following up happening. For example, that weird call from that supposed pastor

in 1985, Pastor Panky, where it says, oh, someone confessed, but oh no, so sorry, I'm a pastor. I can't say anything. And then two days later, peace be with you. Don't worry about it. Forget I ever called. Yeah. It's Steve Panky.

It's creepy, horrible, abusive Steve. Right. It's the same person. Yeah, which is, it's confusing because you're like, oh wait, he's a pastor. I didn't, like, we never have heard of him as a pastor before. But the guy who made that tip back when,

like, the week Janelle went missing was Steve, bad Steve. Yeah, because he's also naming Russell Ross as a suspect. Russell Ross is Janelle's best friend's dad, the last man to see her alive, and Steve hates Ross. Right, because, like, Steve used to work for Ross, so, like, Steve is trying to, like, pin the murder of Janelle, which he probably did on Russ, the guy that he hates. His boss or whatever.

Exactly. So the cops give... The cops, like, call Russ in. And they're like, hey, Russ, we gotta that he hates. His boss or whatever. Exactly. So the cops give, the cops like call Russ in. Oh my god. And they're like, hey Russ, we gotta talk to you again. And the minute they're like, do you know a guy named Steve Panky? And he's like, oh, that asshole. I know.

He worked for me and he lied and said I beat him up and he's been spreading all these lies about me. Like he's just a fucking nightmare. But the thing is, like to us. He's also not a pastor, by the way. Right. None of these people are pastors. But I love that Detective Robert, he's like the friend of Jennifer's, the sister,

like he's the one that's really, like the new guy that's really invested in this. He doesn't really know that Panky is lying. He's just saying like, wait a second, if Russ is talking shit about Panky, maybe we can get Panky to tell us more about Russ. Something is weird. We got this phone call, They all hate each other.

It seems to be bad blood for a long time. So April 8th, 2019, Detective Robert calls Steve Panky up. I'm like, what if you just called Taylor up? So it's like, ring, ring, hello? Hey, I'm looking for Steve Panky. Hey, speaking. And he's like, hey, Steve, I'm working on the Janelle Matthews

case. And Steve Panky's like, oh my god, I have so much tea on Russell Ross. He also immediately starts to sound like a terrified robot. Like, I feel like this is the call he's been waiting for all of his life. The entire time. And he's like, OK my God, I have so much tea on Russell Ross. But he also immediately starts to sound like a terrified robot. I feel like this is the call he's been waiting for all of his life. The entire time.

He's like, OK, OK, OK. He's like, I can tell you something very interesting about Russell Ross. I am not dot, dot, dot over the phone, dot, dot, dot, going to tell you anything specifics. He's excited and terrified. This is it. This is the moment.

Russ Ross, I know a whole lot about him in the dark side. I'm very interested in what you know. I'm not going to say anything until I have a firm deal that can't be broken. I'm not saying anything until I have a deal firmly in place. And they're like, a deal for what? Why would you need a deal? Right.

So let's go back to 1999, when it's all coming together for Angela. Yeah. She's starting to look for clues. She goes, it became a quest for me, which I love. Now, she's going through all, like, the docu- like, all of Steve's stuff. And he has a lot of stuff, because he's

in the middle of a lot of lawsuits. Yes. People are suing him. He's suing other people. And I'm like, what kind of life is this? To deliberately be miserable and evil. Like, put up some tinsel asshole, you'll feel better. Totally.

Like, see, he hates celebrating. He's abusive. He's mean. He's suing. He's litigious. And he's being sued. Like, what a nightmare. All I Want for Christmas came out the year before.

You know it's all over the radio. Just turn it up. But Angela hits the mother load, because she finds a piece of paper full of this like haphazard, crazy handwriting from Steve. And it says some really important things. It says, pastoral privilege, Janelle, remember he said that that was his reason

why he couldn't explain the confession that that person made to him. But then the big one, it says, Janelle dead before crossing 10th Street in Greeley. Tenth Street is where they live in Greeley. This is their address. Right. Why is he writing this all down?

I don't know, but to me, obviously, this is a confession to the fact that he took her from the house and killed her almost immediately after kidnapping her. Right. And then Angela finds a ripped up piece of that yellow legal paper. I could see on a ripped up piece of that like yellow legal paper. I could see on one of the piece of papers

that it said Janelle Matthews. So I put that piece of paper back together and on that document, it said, snow outside the Matthews home was raped. Remember how we said there were all these footprints in the snow, but they were raped as if they were trying to be destroyed? And nobody knew that?

Right, it was held back. Nobody... So, like, the cops are saying, this is the held back information, so we'll know the actual killer, because they'll have that information. And which means that this guy wrote it down and saved it for 30 years, and even when he ripped up a piece of paper,

he had saved it. Right. So, Angela smuggles these papers out of the house in her shoe. And she walks right down to the police station where she talks to the police chief. She tells him everything. And they say to her two things. You got to get out of this marriage. He's going to kill you.

And they also say, like, you got to send this to the Greenlee police. Because they're living in Idaho. So she goes to the police in Idaho and tells them everything that we know, like the car ride on Christmas, wanting Because they're living in Idaho. So she goes to the police in Idaho and tells them everything that we know, like the car ride on Christmas, wanting to hear Russ Ross's name,

all the abuse, the false prophet, like all of that stuff. So 1999, the Greeley police like have all that info, right? Angela's waiting for them to contact her, right? One, for justice and two, so she can finally leave the abuse of marriage because she's waiting for like those wheels to be put in place so she can finally leave the abusive marriage. Because she's waiting for, like, those wheels to be put in place, because she can't leave without that.

Right. So this never happens. The Greeley police never call her. Now, cut a few years later to 2002, Angela is trying to— She's like, fuck it, I can't wait for the cops anymore, I need to get out of here. She tries to get her own lawyer. She can't. Every lawyer in town has a conflict because everyone is suing this guy.

Yeah, and she finally is able. It's insane. It's totally insane, but she finally is able to find an attorney that will work with her. She takes the kids and she leaves. They get an order of protection against Steve. For her and her two sons. For her and the kids. And she's saying so far, he still doesn't know that she talked to the police. And if he ever found out, he would definitely kill her. Yeah. And of course it kind of doesn't know that she talked to the police. And if he ever found out, he would definitely kill her. Yeah, and of course, it kind of doesn't matter, because Idaho cops did nothing, and no one is calling Angela anyway.

Should we take a significant left turn here? Oh my god. 2014, we jump to 2014. Steve Panky is running for governor of Idaho. He wants to be your next Republican governor of Idaho. If you're young and beautiful, 18, and this is your first time voting, I welcome your vote. If you're young and ugly, I welcome your vote.

I'm sorry, what? If you're young and ugly, I welcome your vote. Fuck off. What a piece of shit. Together we can make a safe, prosperous, and moral Idaho. Really, we can do that? We can do that? We can do that, Steve? This guy has so many skeletons.

How on earth do you think that you're going to run for governor when you've got a wife with an order of protection against you? I mean, look at this is where the smugness comes out. I mean, he just is the worst. So finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, by 2019, Angela gets a phone call from Robert Cash, sister Jennifer's friend. But not because he's read her statement

and all the stuff that she gave them. They're just trying to call the ex-wife or the guy they think did that. Angela's like, oh great, so you have everything from the report I filed 25 years ago, and it's crickets. Pin drop. And he's like, what? And I'm like, where did it all go?

I know. Like, who has that? And he said, Robert is saying to us now, I had no idea what she was talking about. Because he says to her, do you know that Janelle Matthews' case, she's like, very, very, very, very well. Yeah. And he's just like, OK, so sorry about this.

Tell us what you know. And she is pissed. Because she put her life on the line to get this information to them. But she gets over it real fast. Well, they start working together because now we have bigger fish to fry. So they're meeting after meeting after meeting.

They're talking about everything. But I want some answers. I want to know who was responsible for receiving that information and then fucking lost it. Yeah, or just didn't call the other state. I thought this case lived in the halls of the police station, Robert. You know what I mean?

It was Idaho. She walked into the cops in Idaho. Oh, so it's not like really lost it. You're saying Idaho never sent it. They? But it was Idaho. She walked into the cops in Idaho. Oh, so it's not like Greely lost it. You're saying Idaho never sent it. They never got it. Oh, I hope. I hope that's the case. So, but this biggest bobshell though is that...

Angela had notations summarizing a conversation she had with Steve Pankey about shoe impressions that had been raked out of the snow surrounding the Matthews house. My blood pressure rose. I'm like, oh my God, Steve knew the hold back information. Has the public never knew that ever. Even in 1999 from 1985 to now, nobody ever knew that part. Yes. So he's the killer. He has to be. He's got to be the guy.

So we cut to July 24, 2009, and Detective Robert calls the Matthews. And he's saying, like, we got to get to you before social media gets to you. And, like, that was such a mindfuck for me because she went missing in 1984. And now it's 2019. You know what I mean?

She went missing in the era of, like, fucking E.T. and the Goonies. Like, this was so long before social media, and she's been missing for all of these years. And then it cuts to the mom and the mom says, I didn't want them to find a body. Like that is, like that was so heartbreaking to me. Of course. Like you don't, this is that you want to know what happened to your daughter, but like you don't want it to be that we found their remains.

And the remains were found by an oil exploration crew that was digging up a field. Thirty minutes away from her home. Thirty minutes away. And the detective said, before calling the family, of course, he went to see the body. This is really bad, what I'm gonna say. So, if you want to turn it off or put the kids in the other room.

And so the detective goes to see the body, and he says the skull had a gunshot through it, and he said he saw the braces and he knew that he had found Janelle. But this part, like, this part will haunt my dreams. He says, because of the trajectory of the bullet, they think that she was on her knees looking up at the person who shot her. Yeah, it's absolutely horrifying. It's horrifying. And, like, you get that phone call that you've been dreading,

but also waiting for in some weird way for all of these decades, It's absolutely horrifying. It's horrifying. And like, you get that phone call that you've been dreading, but also waiting for in some weird way for all of these decades. And the devastation comes back like it's 1984 all over again. Yeah. But these detectives, they've been living with this case since 1984. They are so fucking angry. And they're ready. They're just ready. They're ready. So it's August 15th, 2019. The cops finally go to speak to the killer and they're acting their asses off.

So because the killer can't believe they're at his front door and he's like, are you gonna read me my rights? And they're like, girl. Why? Oh my god. That's so funny. We just drove nine hours out of our way to just say hi. Just say hello. You're not even a suspect. This is so silly. And again, he's like, okay, well, I want to remember that deal. I want a deal and the cops are like, girl, we can't do that in order for us to give you a deal. You've had to have committed a crime, which we know you didn't do. But then they say unless Steve murdered Janelle, there's no crime you could have committed back then that we could arrest you for.

Statute of limitations retorts. I need a deal. He's just told me without saying it directly, I murdered Janelle and I'm not going to talk to you without a deal because that's a crime from 1984 that you can still arrest me for. The cops are like, okay. He just admitted it. He's telling them that he's the guy. And also like asshole, you're not going to get a deal you fucking idiot.

Of course not. So the conversation goes nowhere except that the cops now know that he for sure killed Janelle. They just have to prove it. Yes. So two weeks later, they come back to the house with a warrant. They're not so friendly. And we see the video.

He's not home. Like these search warrant videos are so creepy to me. This house is so weird. There's no furniture, no TV. It looks like four college guys lived there and moved in yesterday. Literally. Random shit everywhere, papers all over the floor.

However, this dude has his high school yearbook picture framed and hung up in his bedroom. It's the only thing on the wall. I know. What a fucking loser. I know. There's three cell phones, two laptops. They confiscate everything. Also, 14 handguns.

And a super expensive brand new gun safe. Like, oh my God. But they say he was living in his own self-imposed prison. He was doing this so that he wasn't leaving. He had everything he needed in the house. But now we're gonna dive into the search history. Cause remember, two laptops and three cell phones. So his search history, he searched for Janelle thousands, thousands of times.

And when Janelle's remains were found, this guy was on his computer for 36 hours straight. And they know it's not that the computer was left on. They can see every move of the mouse or the keystrokes or whatever. Like you could see everything he did. He wasn't sleeping. It's not that the computer was left on. They can see every move of the mouse or the keystrokes or whatever. Like you could see everything he did. He wasn't sleeping.

He was 36 hours. And so they start looking into this guy. And of course, like the 10,000 lawsuits come up, which means that there's paper trails of everything. This is great for this case. And it's wild what he's saying in these documents. He's calling himself a master manipulator. He's writing to the Idaho Supreme Court saying, someday somebody's probably going to charge me with a Janelle Matthews

murder and I'm going to get the death penalty for it, even though I didn't fucking do it. We got one particular report from Idaho. A police officer was on a traffic stop and he starts videotaping the police stop. She confronts him, tells him to step away and he starts talking and saying that he's buried more bodies than she could possibly imagine. She stops and says, oh yeah, where? Well, in Colorado. Colorado. So, he just wanted the attention so, so badly.

He's so sick. He just couldn't wait to get caught. So now, by October 12th, 2020, the killer is arrested and charged with the murder of Janelle Matthews, its first degree murder and kidnapping. Yes. When the Matthews family hears about it, they're like, never fucking heard of this guy. So, like, this is the stranger in the backyard. This was a total crime of opportunity.

But he knew Ross. Yeah, he knew, and we'll get to that too, but, like, he had to get there and he had to leave and nobody saw anything. I just don't understand how that happened. Yeah. So, by 2021, the killer pleads not guilty. And Lacey Wells is here. She's the deputy DA. It's her very first homicide trial. And she's like, look, this is a 40 year old case. We have mountains and mountains of evidence. It is circumstantial. Like we do have a lot of work

ahead of us. Yeah. I mean, it's just so wild that like, they have the body, but like they can't determine other than like the gunshot in the head. They're saying like, it's just so wild that like they have the body, but like they can't determine other than like the gunshot in the head. They're saying like, it's not gonna give us any forensic evidence. And she is saying, juries nowadays expect DNA. And I'm like, but like you've got the body, you can see that she was murdered.

We've got so much fucking evidence of this guy. I mean, it's just wild. Yeah, but the killer won't shut up. So he wrote a book, not published, of course, called Graveyard, about a strapping young man named David Darkson, who has a falling out with the Nazarene Church in Greeley, Colorado. But, but, but, in the book, in the book,

this guy, who's obviously Steve the killer, has a grudge against a woman named Deborah Lynn Moon, which is interesting because in real life, a woman named Deb Moon Moon. Which is interesting because in real life, a woman named Deb Moon filed a sexual assault charge against the killer and she also went to Nazarene Church as did Russ Ross. Yeah, and like we learned what he did to her.

Like he took her out into the middle of nowhere and raped her for four hours. And then the charges were dropped by the male DA because he said this is a he said she said situation. She was bullied into dropping the charges. And what happened is that... His name ended up in the newspaper and he got excommunicated from Sunnyview Nazarene Church. And then he starts spiraling in hatred, having members physically pick him up out of the congregation and forcibly remove him.

So this whole thing is about him getting revenge on the members of this church. Right, because Russ Ross really was the killer's former boss, and to the surprise of no one, they were engaged in a lawsuit. So this is very, very personal. So the theory is the killer hated Russ Ross for many documented reasons. Yes. Hated him, was obsessed with him. The killer was following Russ Ross, trying to find something that he can do and frame Russ Ross for. Yes. Saw that Janelle Matthews was alone.

Like following him on the night that Janelle Matthews was murdered. And he, like Janelle wasn't the target at first. Russ Ross was. And he was trying to look for a moment of opportunity. Saw that Janelle Matthews was alone, took the opportunity to kill Janelle Matthews, and then slowly, after 40 years, kind of framed Russ Ross for her murder. What makes no sense to me is, this is a very small town. Now remember, Russ Ross was driving Janelle home from a concert, so probably there was

more people on the road than normally would have been at 8 o'clock at night or whatever. But like, how did Russ Ross not know that he was being followed and then once Russ Ross left We are never told how Steve Panky was able to pull his car Somewhere close enough to the house that he was able to open the garage door open the garage door sneak into the backyard somehow Overpowered this quote feisty 13 year old girl who would have fought for her life to the death Yeah this, quote, feisty 13-year-old girl who would have fought for her life to the death, get her into his car and take off. And the only witnesses are the dogs who heard something. Nobody saw or heard anything. Yeah. Like, we know he did this. We just, we don't know how.

How, yeah. We're at the trial now. So Angela, the ex-wife testifies. We had to have the conversation with Angela that the judge had restricted her testimony to a sanitized fashion. The jury will not hear about any physical acts of violence Mr. Pinky perpetrated against you because it was overly prejudicial. She can't discuss the violence. She can't discuss the course of control. She can't discuss her fear. I'm like, then what can she talk about? So three weeks later, the trial is over. The jury deliberates for three days

and it's a fucking mistrial. Because like honestly, based on what's presented at trial, you can understand the reasonable doubt. I'm not saying zero doubt. I'm saying you can maybe see the reasonable doubt, maybe, maybe. The jurors get hung up on the thing that we were just talking about,

which is like they can't prove that he was at the house. And we don't know what kind of guy he is because Angela can't say anything. Exactly. And also the dead moon testimony is also not allowed at this trial. So everyone is super bummed, but the prosecution's gonna try him again. But things are different this time.

Because he took the stand in his own defense in his first trial, all of the stuff that was excluded, he opened doors to. He would allude to it on the stand to sort of fuck with the prosecution because he knew that they couldn't question him about it. But because he had done that for the second trial, it's all of it is allowed in. And he would say things like, well, you know, that's protected,

so we can't talk about it. So he was really using that as a shield and he thought he could get away with it, but he ended up completely screwing himself over. Yes. Because the killer, for example, painted Angela, his ex-wife, as a, quote, scorned over. Yes. Because the killer, for example, painted Angela, his ex-wife, as a, quote, scorned woman.

Yes. But that means that Lacey, the DA, and her team can explain why she might be that way. She's not. But now that it's like, oh, she's crazy, now we can get into the psychological abuse and dive into that, which they couldn't bring up the first time.

And also, Deb Moon is allowed to testify. So we're able to hear about his behavior before he was with Angela. Then Angela is allowed to testify to all of the abuse plus all of the evidence that she found where he's basically talking about stalking Janelle before she even died. Because the killer, I mean this guy is out of his fucking mind. The killer filed a complaint against the cops in 1985 and And in this, again, he writes everything down. He saves everything. Like, a lawsuit, that's like legal documents.

Like, that lives forever. That's a record. And he writes that he knows that two cops live on the same street as Janelle Matthews. And you're like, how would you know that? How many of these people are you stalking? How would you know that? According to the documentary, he wrote that before Janelle died.

They make the point to say... So now we're able to tell the jury that Panky was conducting surveillance in Janelle's neighborhood before she passed away. Not only did he know where she lived, he was stalking her before she died. So she was some kind of target for him. Plus, all of the handwritten notes that Angela had,

like, dated, and writing down all this stuff that no one in the public could have known unless you're the killer. So it's October 7th, 2022, the second trial starts. And when Deb Moon, the woman he assaulted testifies, it is unbelievable. She destroys him on the stand. And at one point she stared him down and he looked away first, which is just unbelievable. And Angela takes the stand again.

And finally she can be fully honest. And these women take down this horrible person and the killer is convicted, guilty of kidnapping, guilty of murder. Yes, and he gets life in prison. As we're winding down here, Janelle's friends and family are saying like, Janelle was only on this earth for a little less than 13 years, but she was like amazing.

Yes, I mean, that really broke my heart. The dad said if she were alive today, she would be making us so proud. We only had her for a little less than 13 years, but she was like amazing. Yes. I mean, that really broke my heart. The dad said if she were alive today, she would be making us so proud. We only had her for a little less than 13 years and I just like burst into sobs. And Jennifer says like I had a sister and her name was Janelle. Yeah. And I think, you know, that made me think like the name of this documentary is even like the girl in the milk carton. Like where is Janelle in this?

I know. And so I'm so glad that we came back to that with Jennifer. And then Gloria, her mom. Oh, I am so glad you're going to say this, because I wrote down every word of it. She's just talking about what it's like to be Gloria. So many of my Christian friends say that I have to forgive him, but I can't.

Espy was going to go for the rest of his life behind Bosch. And I like that. He's gonna die in prison and I like that. I like that. Like that is something, like that is peace for her. That he's, the world is a better place when he's not in it. Yes, and I couldn't agree more. And Angela, again, like all these women, oh my God,

Angela says like for the first time, she finally feels safe because what Angela did, Angela took her life in her hands. Imagine being Angela, you go to the Idaho police, you tell everything and this controlling, horribly abusive, violent person could maybe find out at any time. What if they showed up at his job and said you're under arrest or what if he was able to like living, she has been living in fear maybe her entire life. Yes. And so to finally not feel that way. But what she did for Janelle and for Deb is like is huge.

It's huge. It's amazing. Oh, my God, girl, we did the girl on the milk carton. I know about Janelle Matthews. Really sad story. I know. I'm so glad the family got peace in the end. Yeah.

You don't have to forgive anybody. You don't, but you do have to come to Drag Bingo tomorrow night. If you're hearing this the day that it comes out, Drag Bingo tomorrow night, Wednesday, December 11th, with the amazing Shwa, it's so, so, so much fun. It's so fun, we have a grand old time. It's growing every month.

It's for everybody at the $5 tier and above on Patreon. If you're on the tier and you haven't tried it, just try it. Try it. If you're available, come check it out. You're gonna have a great time. Yeah. Before we go, girl, I wanna remind the people, we've got a TCO book club now.

It is, I was gonna say raring to go, but it is thriving. It's been going. It's been going for a couple of months, and really there's nothing you need to do to join. All you gotta do is get into the Facebook group, look at the featured posts. They used to call them pin posts, but now they're featured posts.

Yeah, Sasha has it all going on. Sasha's got it all going on. Just get in there and let them know that you're interested. Let me tell you the upcoming books we're doing, fam. So for January, girl, did you know this? They're doing Life After Death by Damien Echols. Yeah, well, everyone votes on the books. So there's just like a selection of books and everyone voted.

So yeah, that's exciting. And the book club meeting for that is going to be on January 26th at 2 p.m. Eastern. And then in February, we're doing Zodiac. Oh, Graysmith. The Graysmith Zodiac book. I was like, can we do that? Because I'm reading it and I want to talk about it. Oh, wow.

Okay. And then in March, they're doing a killer design by Dr. Anne Burgess. I know. I said to Sasha, I was like, if you're taking suggestions for the thing, we should do Dr. Anne Burgess. So here's the deal, fam. Just get in the group, let them know that you're interested. Sasha will let you know when the meetings are.

If you can make it, if not, we can also just talk about it in the group. But we're going to make this more of a thing. We're kind of figuring out how we're getting it going, but right now that's what we're doing. Perfect. TCO Book Club. Happy reading everybody. Happy reading.

What are we doing next, girl? Fanatical, the catfishing of Tegan and Sara. Oh man, you got some feelings about this. I have a lot of feelings about it. I really do. And I've been in my DMs, the listeners also do. Yeah. I have feeling, thoughts and feelings.

I just, I, I will dive into it. Listen, that Closer song, I listened to that on repeat for like a year. You and everyone else in 2007 or whatever. Whatever it was. I was obsessed with that song. But we'll unpack some things. Yeah.

All right, I'm looking forward to it. So stay tuned for the trailer for that. My loves. And that's it. We love you. All right, we love you. Stay safe out there. All right, bye.

Bye. Tegan and Sarah were known as being very accessible. I messaged Teagan and we got a response. It was very exciting. Teagan added me as a friend on Facebook. I had become friends with Teagan, and it had become a long-term friendship. At some point, she sent me a shared drive and a password.

It felt off. So I reached out to her management and got a text that said, she has no idea who you are. And I said, well, then Tegan has a big problem. In the beginning, we thought it was just a leak of a demo. And then we realized this hacker had access to Tegan and Sarah's personal information. This whole new really scary universe opened up.

I said, you. Fake Tegan knew where we all lived. Email addresses had been hacked. They shared passport scans and knew their mom's medical history. It introduced the idea that it's someone we know coming after our friends. Me and my girlfriend. That just made me question everyone around me. It was terrifying and scary.

I was paranoid. The fear, of course, was the sort of physical safety. It got darker when we realized multiple fans had been catfished online and thought that they were talking to me.