Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Al Franken

Episode Date: December 30, 2019

Author, comedian, and former senator Al Franken is already a f***ing friend of Conan O’Brien’s.Al and Conan sit down to talk about favorite SNL sketches that never made it to air, doing ‘The Brain Tumor Comedian’ with Tom Davis, shutting down George Harrison’s drunken piano playing, and the jokes that failed to land with guests of The Al Franken Podcast. Plus, Conan follows up on the resurfacing of his correspondence with iconic writer E.B. White.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].

Hello, my name is Al Franken, and I'm already a fucking friend of Conan's. Hello there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. If this is your first time listening, this is my rather transparent attempt to make more friends using the podcast format. I should be ashamed, but I'm not. I'm having a blast. It is really fun. And I'm joined, as always, by my superlative team, my assistant extraordinaire, Sona Movsesian. Hello, Sona. Hi. Yeah, what's wrong with you?

That was very nice. Yeah, it's a trap. It's not a trap. It's me just being nice. You're a good friend. We've been through a lot of scrapes together, some high highs and some low lows. Yeah. But you've always stuck by my side because I pay you. But you're a good friend. That's cool. Yeah, you are too. Thank you. There you go. All right. That's a very toned down Sona today. I don't know what's going on. And then I'm also joined by our producer, Matt Gorley.

Is it just producer or is it executive producer? Yeah, let's go with executive producer. Well, what's the difference? I really don't know. In podcasts, are you a producer? What are you? I don't think podcasting as an industry has figured that out. There are people that tell you that there are different things, but I just make this thing go from this to the internet. Okay. I edit it, tighten it. You edit it? Oh, sure. So this is edited?

Oh, yeah. What are you talking about? Oh, yeah. So when I go on those insane tirades. Yeah, especially I put those up front. Where I just lose it and I start screaming at my father. Dad, why? You cut those out, right? Those are cold opens for the podcast. Every podcast starts with, father, why? Why, father, why?

Well, whatever you're doing, it's working. This thing is very successful. Well, thanks. You haven't heard it though, have you? You've never listened. I don't like the sound of my own voice and I'm shocked that other people can tolerate the sound of my voice. You have a nice voice. Well, thank you, but I don't like to drive around or I would never listen to my own podcast. I really enjoy doing it. I really enjoy making it. I watch my own show around the clock. I've never actually seen my children because the only way I'll look at one of my children is if they're held up between me and the screen that I'm watching that's showing a Conan O'Brien from the 90s.

Those classic Conan's. They're held up. Yeah, they're held up. His children are 16. He's 14. Lion King style. Well, yeah, I hired a very, very strong man to hold my 14-year-old rapidly approaching my height son. His name is Julius. He's a performer professional wrestler and his job is to lift my son so that a...

I hate to walk in the door. Yeah, and Lion King music plays and he, for a second, interrupts my view of myself from the 90s because I'm just watching a constant loop. And I'm sitting in a chair and I pee into jars so I don't have to go to the bathroom and miss any color. Come on. What happens to those jars? Well, you save them all. They're marked day and date. Science wants to understand my genius. And the scientific community needs to know at some point, how did this guy exist?

How did he have a mind like that? Let's investigate his urine. And they'll have... Four years ago, I don't have February. I don't know what happened. It's gone. It's just... I don't know if it's got thrown away or what.

Did you drink it? No. It's disgusting. Is there like a Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse just full of your jars of urine? Yes. At the end of the Conan O'Brien story, they're going to pull back slowly on a giant warehouse and it's just going to be jars of urine. Look, maybe we've gone down a bad road or maybe we've gone down a great road.

I think the important thing is that science will one day have access to my urine to understand how my mind worked. What's that noise? It's just utter disgust. Okay. I don't think anybody cares. What's that? I don't think anybody cares how your mind works. They do. They're going to have to figure out one day how this happened to me.

How to stop it from happening again? It's going to be an antidote. Why was this done to me? Vaccine. Why? It's not right. We're injecting a small amount of Conan's urine in you to vaccinate you from becoming like... Worldwide all children at birth.

Uh-oh, this one's starting to babble. He's starting to talk nonsensically and he's dipping out of weird... It's depression and then euphoria and lots of weird babble and Civil War references quickly. Inject him. Inject him with the Conan antivirus. He got a sunburn in the delivery room. All right, that's funny. Yeah, yeah, Conan's pale.

Let's all have a good laugh just because I can't go in the sun. But it's possible. It's possible. Oh, yeah, it's possible. I can say that at the end of it. It's possible. It's possible. We have a really good show today.

Really fascinating show. My guest today is an author. He's an Emmy award-winning comedian and a former senator of Minnesota. He's now hosting his own serious XM show, The Al Franken Show. Al Franken is joining us. I would like to mention I did talk at length with Al on the show, a TV show about his resignation from the Senate. And it was a pretty serious discussion, as you can imagine. If you want to see that interview, it's available on Team Coco.

The podcast was an opportunity for me to go a different way and talk to my friend Al Franken, my friend of many, many years, who is a brilliantly funny comedian and talk to him about comedy and how maybe he thinks it works because I still don't understand myself. He is hilarious. I'm thrilled he's here. Al Franken, thanks for joining us. I met you in 1988.

1988. So that would be... My math is correct. 31 years ago. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I was a punk kid. I remember very clearly my writing partner at the time, Greg Daniels, and I came to New York to write on Senate Live.

And I pitched something. Uh-oh. And no, no, no. No, no, no. And you laugh the Al Franken laugh. Oh. And I immediately relaxed. I thought we were going to get bounced out of there any second.

And I pitched. We had a sketch. Do you remember what it was? Yeah, okay. It was about a lab professor. It was something I used to do for my friends. It's a lab professor who had a lab skeleton. And he'd say, well, here we have, of course, the austere patella.

It was the thickest of the bones. And then he would look over this going to go, oh, oh, God, oh, God, oh, God, it's a skeleton. And he got as scared every time. And you were howling. And then you came up to me and you went, I really like that. Wait a minute. Well, I'm sorry. That's how you talk.

Oh, wait, no, that was Roseanne Barr. Well, that was a T-Rex. But anyway, you were a generous laughter with me right away. And I remember that feeling great. I remember that feeling great. If people aren't laughing in the office, it's harder. Right. It's interesting, too, because everything would be based on, you remember this, the

read-throughs that we would do on Saturday Night Live. And you did how many, I mean, if you add up all your years at Saturday Night Live, isn't it like 111? It's something crazy. I did 15 seasons. So we did 20 a year, right? Mm-hmm. That's 300.

Have you noticed so far you're really into numbers? I was good at math and science. And I'm a Sputnik kid. I was born in 51. And when Sputnik went up, my parents marched me and my brother into the living room and said, you boys are going to study math and science so we can beat the Soviets. And I thought that was a lot of pressure to put on a six-year-old. You really thought it was up to you guys, yeah, in Minnesota.

We were both, we were literal. Yeah. A literal and obedient. Yeah. And so, and so my brother was really, really, really good at it and went to MIT. Mm-hmm. And I was really good at it. And I, you know, I went to another school that I was very well thought of.

Yes, yes. I've heard of that school. Yeah. And he became a photographer and I became a comedian. Yeah. But we beat the Soviets. You know what's nice? That you took that seriously and then, yes, the wall came down, the Soviets were defeated.

Yes. And then Sona married one. Isn't that right, Sona? Yes, but he wasn't one of the Soviets you were fighting. Well, in a way, yes he was. He was a child? No, we were fighting them all. He was a child and he was, you know, grew up in the Soviet Union.

Yeah. As a child. He was a child. And then he came here. That's what you're saying. Then he came here. Yes. Okay.

When he was 11. But Al, what I maintain is that when you fight the Soviets, you fight them all. And so, Tak, your husband, even as a small child, we were out to defeat Tak. You were saying Tak was the enemy. Yes, he was and now he's not. He was a child. Well, I disagree with that. So, I don't, I disagree with that.

He had a child's name. That I know. I can't remember his last name. But anyway, yeah, so I came to Cernot Live and I was so scared and then got to know you and Jim Downey right away. And that's the thing about Cernot Live that I was impressed with is they throw you right into the deep end. There's no, you'd think that.

What is the deep end? It's like you got to write a sketch. Is that the deep end? Yes. No, but what I'm saying is. You've got to do your job, the deep end. Okay. Yeah, write a sketch.

But write a sketch. Deep funny. Go in and pitch to Steve Martin. Go in and pitch to Martin Short. Go in and pitch to, you've just come in off the street. I know, but that's like cool and a privilege. You're getting this. Yes, I think being thrown in the deep end is a good thing.

Oh God, this isn't going well. I thought it was a pejorative. Okay. This is just not going the way I wanted it to go. Well, I had a couple of ideas thinking back to the show. One is just. This is my show or Cernot Live. Which show?

Oh, Cernot Live. Oh, see, when you say to me. The show. And I'm sorry, am I wrong, Gourly? If someone says to me like, hey, yeah, the show, I go, of course, Conan on TBS. Right. I think Conan podcast. Oh, that's interesting.

Sona, what do you think when you hear the show? You know what? I know how you think. You think jiggalos, don't you? Jiggalos is no longer on the air. That's tragic. It's a show about actual male jiggalos. Is it like a dramatic, I mean, is it acted out?

It's a reality show. It's a reality show. It's soft core pornography. Really? I'm not even kidding. Yeah, it's got a plot and it's got certain jiggalos it follows, but it is, it's soft core pornography. I'm sorry.

Wow. How do you. Anyway, back to. How does a show like that get canceled? Who said we're not getting any interest in the soft core pornography? How does that happen? I feel like the jiggalos were pulling out. Yeah.

No, Bill Nye's Science Guy came up against us and just cleaned our clock. How does that happen? I have no idea. I don't know. But Al, you were going to talk about starting out live. What are the ideas you wanted to talk about? Your favorite sketch that didn't make it. Oh, that's interesting.

Is that like, that's all? I don't know if it's my favorite. It's the one that comes, one of the ones that comes to mind. Or the one that was most annoying to you that it didn't get on. Yeah. There was one. The disparity between how it did, it read through versus what happened to the sketch. So I had an idea.

Do you remember Phil Hartman had a character named Mace? Yes, of course. And Mace was this, I don't know that I can access the voice, but this incredibly tough. Right. Toughest guy in the world. Like, I'm Mace. You mess with Mace. You're going to mess with Mace.

And Phil Hartman, one of the great SNL players of all time. Yes. Could do anything. The glue. Yeah. And he did this character that just was very funny, where he was Mace, toughest guy in the world. And so I had this idea that Mace is in his cell and the scene starts with, you know, a guard

coming by and he's like, that's right, screw, keep walking around. You know, and it's all incredibly tough. He is, right? Right. And he's really tough. And then whoever the guest was that week, and I don't remember who it was, but let's just say Matthew Maudine, they bring in, he's my go-to. He's my go-to.

Let's, I always say, if I say like, look, if I'm ever murdered by, let's just say Matthew Maudine. So, so I, then they put this prisoner in with him. And it's that classic thing where he's like, you're not going to screw with me. I'm the king of this cell, Blobsie. I'm Mace. And the guy's like, whatever, I don't want any trouble. Cause I'm going to rip you a new lungs and I'm going to feed them to you and I'm going

to shove them up your ass with those. Slendle, shine, buddy boy. And he does this whole thing and the guy's like, okay. Then the guy lays down in his bunk and Mace looks over and it's typical, there's a bunk bed, it's a jail cell for two, and there's one exposed toilet in the middle of the room. And Mace is looking over and it just becomes clear that Mace is shy of pooping. And so Mace is doing a lot of like, so maybe you, he's looking at the toilet and he's starting to head that way.

And the guy, Matthew Maudine is like, Hey, if you got to go, you got to go. I don't have to go. And then, and then he's saying things like, why don't you, why don't you go to sleep? You look tired. Try to go to sleep. Get a good night's sleep. That's the first thing you got to do when you get in prison. The guy's like, okay, yeah, I am a little tired.

And he starts to go to sleep. And the minute he thinks he's nodded off, Phil Hartman goes over and then this was something Greg Daniels out of that that was really funny, which is he starts peeling off little pieces of toilet paper and put him like, he's very fastidious. And then, and then Matthew Maudine would wake up and he'd be like, and so this thing was read at read through and killed and you know, when a piece kills at read through and people were like pounding the desks, the piano in the corners rattling, the acoustical tiles falling.

It was like just, it was killing and I afterwards people were coming up like patting me on the back. It got a pause. Lauren made eye contact with me briefly and then celebrated with a tic-tac. And I was like, wow. And then the all week long people were like, oh, I can't wait for that. I can't wait for that. And then dress rehearsal and they started to do it.

Not a laugh. I don't know what happened to this day. Not a laugh and it happens sometimes. But you know the way there's a thing, Al, where in a sketch there's a trigger. It's, and it's the, it's the trigger that's supposed to set everything else. The wonderful, all the laughter to come need to be with that trigger. And when you hit that line and the trigger pulls and nothing happens, you know that you've got nine more pages and none of that's going to catch.

None of it. And so I watched it just completely go down the drain. What about you? What's the, do you have a sketch that you absolutely loved? Another, I have several. One and fart doctor. That's so stupid. Say no more.

Fart doctor has an interesting history and life to it because there were, okay, this is what happens. So Al Gore. What? I just want to tell our listeners that I have a pen and a pad of paper and I'm trying to draw. I'm just trying to figure out how one thing goes to another, like how does Al Gore and fart doctor, and it doesn't work.

I'm telling you right now, it doesn't work. So Al Gore is going to host and I believe it's 2002 and he asked that I be a guest writer because we're friends. So I come and I think about it. I have some, some lead time and so I, I write this sketch that Al Gore is not right for. Okay, here is the premise. Okay. You have three of our cast members.

I remember Amy Poehler being one of them. And they're waiting in a room and I think Amy was the one who was very impatient and skeptical that this famous diagnostician who can diagnose diseases when no one else can was coming from Duke. And they're a little, he's a little late and she is kind of both skeptical and impatient and there's one, one of the other doctors going like, no, I'm telling you, he's amazing. Okay. So the fart, whoever the host would be to play fart doctor comes in and he's read all the

files, right, of all the different people and so they bring the first patient in and they cannot, these other doctors cannot figure out what is wrong with this guy. And so this doctor from Duke says to the, to the patient, he says, okay, I'm going to need you to fart. Oh my God. And the guy says, what, I'm going to need you, you know, to fart. And so the guy tries and does finally squeeze one off. And the doctor says, your mother was Silesian.

My God. Yes. Yes. Did you have tabooly salad for a lunch today? Yes, I did. You have a very specific disease and all the other doctors are going like, oh, of course. Why didn't we figure that? Oh my God.

That's brilliant. And the good news is, is that we know how to treat this and you're going to be fine. And the guy is going, oh, thank you. Thank you. Next patient comes in. I'm going to need you to fart. Skeptical but farts. And he's going like, I'm glad that made it up.

But just if you're listening to this right now, and you obviously are skeptical but farts meets. Yeah. Skeptical but farts. Never been said before. Oh, I forgot the, I forgot one beat. I forgot one beat is that after that first patient leaves, he takes a little fan. Uh-huh.

Sure. A little electric, you know, one of those little fans and clears the air. So the second one comes in and he goes like, hmm, very interesting. And like, could you fart again? And he takes out a beaker and collects this one because he wants to bring it back to dude. Then another guy comes in and he's just an asshole about it. Yeah. He's just a fucking asshole about being, you know, has to do this.

He has to fart and he just, he's just a dick about it. And finally he does it and it's like, you know what, I'm going to talk to you later. And then he leaves and he says, he's a dead man and all of them are kind of like, okay with that. Yeah. They just never liked this. Never liked it. Yeah.

And the last person comes in, this is the final patient, comes in and you have to fart. And the person really, very valiant effort and can't do it. It's just can't do it, can't do it. And then you hear a fart and he looks puzzled and he goes like, wait a minute, that can't be your fart. You're half Austrian and that just can't be yours. Well, and then Amy Poehler, the one who is so skeptical says, that was me. Right.

And he goes, we got to get you into surgery stat. Okay. Now that's a good sketch. Yes. Okay. So now this is. No, wait, you pitched this to, you wanted Al Gore. No.

To be fart doctor? No. I knew that Al Gore was not right for fart doctor. Okay. So here, here's what happens. I am not working at the show at this point and I'm doing other stuff. I just came in for Al Gore. But I'm going like, I've got a fucking gem here for doctor and so while I'm not there,

I'm going to submit it for read through, which is not a good thing to do. I mean, if you're not there and if you're not there and you submit it for read through, it's the writers that are there can feel, right? They resent it maybe a little bit and they want their thing in. And so, but I'm thinking like, okay, Christopher Walken is a host. So I go like, okay, all right, all right, Christopher Walken, I'll put it through with Christopher Walken. So it goes in and it doesn't get picked.

And then another month later, I submit it again and it doesn't get. So now you know the writers every time Lauren says, all right, next sketch, Fert Doctor. They're not there and they know that this is the seventh week in a row that it's being read and the pages are crumbling in yellow from age. Yes. They're irritated with you. Okay. Right.

And Tina Fey was head writer, I think at the time. So I stopped doing it. It never gets done. It just doesn't get done. So on 30 Rock, they refer to Fert Doctor very often and you know, what's going on on the floor, they're rehearsing Fert Doctor, you know, and that's her homage to you. Yeah. It made perfect sense to say and then when she meets Matt Damon and at first I think

she, in this show, she pretends to be something else and finally she admits that she's the producer and writer for this, for this right kind of variety show and she says, I write Fert Doctor and go, I love Fert Doctor. So it found, it's in a way, it found a life. You know? Yeah. And then here's the thing. She never gave to any of my campaigns.

Well, in a way, she gave the greatest gift of all. She made Fert Doctor immortal. It's playing all around the world constantly. It is. We're going to take a quick break. Let's just take a quick break. We've got some business to do. Just hang on.

Without Franken. And we're back. Pretty cool. So, okay, another one that this is another sketch. We're talking about sketches that, that we love that didn't make it on Sound Out Live. Right. And which, which one is this? This weirdly is another doctor.

And it's called That's My Oncologist and it's a sitcom. It's like a 50s sitcom. And it's the song starts and there's a, you know, the montage of a sitcom. When it comes to cancer, he's got the answers. He's the best in the biz. But when it's honey, I'm home. He's thickened the dome. That's my oncologist.

And so I, I submitted it once with a sketch. Kind of in it as a show. And then I did a next week on, you know, and so the next week worked. And the next week was it's take your daughter to work week or day. Yeah. And it's just, he's pointing to these x-rays, I guess, or whatever those are. Okay. He's a goner.

Okay. This one is, it's in his liver. How old's the daughter? The daughter's like eight, you know? Yeah, yeah. And, uh, oh, this is your teacher and that, and that killed. Yeah. And, and so I just said, okay, just take the sketch that isn't great and just do that.

And it didn't happen. Here's one of the things, this just reminds me of something I want to ask you about, which is when I was watching Senate Live along with everybody else 75 to 80, you and, uh, Tom Davis, I remembered watching late one night and you did this sketch. You couldn't remember this better than I can, but there was some sketch where you're doing something throughout this period of time and you're getting progressive. Is it you that's getting progressively sicker? Is it a tumor?

Is this the brain tumor? Yes. The brain tumor comedian. And it's your comedy. Yeah. Just tell me. It was so dark and I remember the time thinking, nothing this dark has been on television before. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Um, this was, uh, so we had been doing the Franken and Davis show as a show within the show and we were on when the show was short. So when a lot didn't work and they, and Lauren put us on in the last half hour. So, um, but we had been on, and there were times people knew, knew, knew the Franken and Davis show. So it was like a cool, uh, animated, animated of your, of your faces.

It looked like it's the Franken and Davis show. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Anyway, so we come out and, uh, and I have this, um, bandage, this huge head bandage with a big lump on the, you know, the bandage is, uh, you know, adhesive tape around gauze and, uh, my head's wrapped in it and Tom says, um, Al has a brain tumor and he's always, you know, we're a team, but he's always wanted to do a monologue and then work along, you know, just try that.

And I think that, uh, uh, I'm really encouraging that because that's his dream and he's going to do that and, um, he's a little, uh, he's not doing well and, uh, so just laugh. It was so eerie. And, uh, so I, I go out there and tell the first, you know, the rat, have you heard the one about the rabbi who doesn't charge for giving circumcisions? He only takes tips, okay? And then Tom's going like, cool, cool. Tom's behind, yeah.

He's like, isn't that funny? And then from then on, I just, the punchline is always, he only took tip. And Tom is trying to encourage people to laugh and then, and I start at one point, I start to clearly just lose it and I'm almost about to pass out and he has a sponge and some water and just starts sponging with my face. I have a memory, which I love to tell people that stars you and I think it's just Harrison. Yes. Word gets out, word gets out that George Harrison's in the building and he's down in Lawrence

office and I'm, I don't think he can be a bigger beetle fan than, than myself. I just, I, I know everything about them. I know the instruments. I know the, like, you know, the chord changes at the whole thing, you know, the names of the songs. Yes. I know, I know some of the names of the members get hazy on the bass player, but we're there and we're thinking, are we going to see him?

Are we going to see him? And then finally George comes down the hallway and we're all in the writer's room and he comes in and I remembered he had been out partying with Lorne and he was a little tipsy and Lorne had gone out to dinner with him. So, and traditionally on a Tuesday night, this is Tuesday night. The show gets written on Tuesday night. And we stay up all night. We stay up all night, but it really, you know, starting, I don't know, 10 p.m. or something.

Things are actually starting to be written. And so, first of all, George Harrison shows up at around eight and they go to dinner. Yes. And they don't come back until like 10, 10, 30 or something and Harrison's really drunk. Yeah. He's tied one on. And this is what I remember very clearly. He walks in, we all stand up.

He comes into that, those wide, it's double doors into the writer's room, writer's room, writer's area, writer's area. And he's standing there and he's sort of weaving from side to side as one does when one's had a lot to drink. And he said, I'm sorry, I'm pissed as a newt. I'll never forget that. He went, he went, sorry, I'm pissed as a newt. And then he said, was he all staring at, and we were all staring at him.

And then he looks over in the corner and he sees a piano and he goes over and he sits down at the piano and he starts to play the piano. So a beetle is in a relatively small room with us playing the piano. Making music. Making music. A beetle is making music. And all of us are transfixed. And I think he plays for about 20 seconds.

Nope. Less. Maybe. More. More. Okay, more. All right, whatever. I'm being controlled.

He plays more, but he plays for a while. And then you, you come out of your office and you said, quiet! Okay. And then he gets startled and he gets up and scuttles away like a hobbit that's on ogre. He's like, get up and scuttles away and you go back in your office, did that or did that not happen? A version of that. This is what happened actually.

First of all, he played for a lot longer than you remember. He played for a long time. Yeah. Not many people when a beetle is playing go, hey, let's pick it up. Let's pick it up. No, no, no. Well, the point is we have a writing staff. We have a show that gets written now and, you know, it's like 11 and he's playing and

he's playing for quite a while. Who the fuck cares? Okay. What is it? So that, you know, a special, this week, Rue McClanahan is on the show. Who cares? The show could have sucked that week. Who cares?

We could have sat there for six hours and listened to George Harrison play and then just turned in. It could have been a whole show of one fart doctor after another with Rue McClanahan. I didn't think of that, but this is prior to the existence of fart doctor. I see. Okay. Okay. So I had a role that year, which is I think I was the, some producer.

Yes. I was like, I was responsible. You were being responsible. Yeah. No one is going to leave that room and work as long as George Harrison is playing the piano. You have no one on your side in this room. I know.

I understand it. And I'll tell you something else. I mean, I think also that you had been working on the show since 75 and George Harrison had been around the show a lot. So you had spent a lot of time with George Harrison, whereas this was my... I hadn't spent a lot of time with George Harrison. I thought you guys used to go antiquing. No, we used to go to listen to light jazz in a gazebo.

But here's the thing. I didn't say quiet. This is, I went to Phil Harderman and I said, and my office was very near the piano. Yes. Your office was the closest office to the conference room in the piano. Yes. I'll verify that. So I say to Phil, watch this.

And I go into my office, so I don't see Harrison's reaction, but I'm told later what it was. I slam the door as hard as I can. And I knew that... It sounded like an explosion. Yes. And he... He jumped. Yes.

And I've been told it is two or three feet above the piano bench and then back to the piano bench. He jumped up, back to the piano bench. He's been drinking, so he startled, afraid, and he gets up and runs away, and I don't think ever returned to America. I haven't looked into it, but I don't think he ever returned to America. And I do get shit from few people who were there. But I bear you no ill will.

Okay. But can I ask a question? Because you've told this story before. You sort of made it seem like it was a joke, but were you really telling him to be quiet? Now I'm confused. I think he was doing a bit of a joke. Okay. I think you were doing a bit.

You were also impatient. I wanted us to have a successful TV show. At any cost. That was kind of my goal. Right. And he'd been there a while playing, and also he was very drunk, and it wasn't... I'm not a music critic, but I don't think it was... I just don't think it was his best worth.

Yeah. It was wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, wheels on the bus go round and round. All right, George. We could put a harmony in here with wheels on the bus. Yeah. And the wheels gone, and guess what happens? People get to work, and we write a good show.

I don't remember if it was a good show. I don't either. It made a slightly passable show, but no, you are, I will say, absolutely fearless. I remember you not being intimidated by massive stars and just going right in, and were you always that way? Were you like that in 1975? Were you ever a scared pup, or do you have any memory of that first show? How scary it was?

We're doing a live show. Will this even work? What if... It was very unlike what the show became, because we had, I think, three musical acts or something. And you had Muppets, too, I think. We had Muppets, we had a music act. The hit was Chevy and Update.

And the show didn't become the show until, you know, it started getting more like what it was. And the Lily Tomlin, I think, was the first show that seemed like one of the shows. But you know, it was George Carlin, I think, did two monologues or something. It was like Midnight Express, but with more comedy focus. I always try to point this out to younger people that are interested in comedy, is that nothing is what you think it was at the beginning. And a good example of that is Watch a Simpsons from the first season.

First of all, Dan Castagnetta, who does Homer, his take on Homer was that he sounds like he should sound like Walter Maffow. And so it's a lot. If you watch the early ones, it's, boy, now come here, boy, I'll get you, dough, well, Bart, we better... I mean, it's not... And the pacing is completely different. It's radically different.

And I always tell everybody that nothing, you know, people tend to think that everything just springs out perfectly, and that never happens. I mean, I think a good show is a living thing. I know that, you know, Lauren has told me that, you know, people used to say to him, starting with the second season, well, it's not as good as the first season. No, no, no. Saturday Night Dead. Yeah.

It's like... They started doing the Saturday Night Dead joke probably right away. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's that... It was like Arthur Miller or something said that, you know, he wrote Death of a Salesman and everyone was like, oh, my God, this is the best thing ever. And then later on, he'd write his other plays and people would say, it's not Death of a

Salesman. And then he'd write more and they go like, you know, it's just not Death of a Salesman. And then finally late in his life, people... He'd write something and people would say, you know, we've been thinking about it, Death of a Salesman isn't that good. Actually, it was really good. Yeah. I know.

But just if you stick around long enough, they'll pick everything apart. I do my podcast alone. I'm like, there's nobody in the studio with me except a climate scientist is on and we're talking about obviously global warming and what we need to do. And he gets into the underdeveloped world, the poor countries of the world, the third world countries. And when their economies expand, that they're going to have to kind of skip a generation of energy.

They're going to have to skip coal and go into, you know, carbon neutral fuel and that kind of thing. And I said, well, how could we just get these countries not to develop? And he didn't laugh. He thought, okay, for example, so we had former energy secretary Ernie Moniz, I'm laughing already. And he's on and he's a great guy and he, he actually negotiated all the technical aspects of the Iran nuclear deal.

He's a brilliant, brilliant guy. He was the head of the physics department at MIT and we're talking also about climate. And we have this discussion about whether natural gas is a transition or not. There's controversy about that and he says it is. He says it is. And he says, I, for example, I work with Southern company, which is this big utility in the south. So I say to him, you're working for the man.

And he goes, well, or the woman, he doesn't know the phrase, maybe didn't know the phrase. That's exactly what happened. He's not like, he just didn't know the phrase working for the man. And he, I think he's like five years older than me or something like that. And people five years older than me know the phrase working for the man. But I think he was studying physics. He's trying to fix the world. He's busy trying to save our planet from, from a global disaster.

Yeah. So he didn't. And you're angry that he's not up on his. I'm not angry. I know, I know. I'm not angry. I'm just, I'm going like, I, I really respect him. I think he's, he's a great, he was a great public servant and he's a great mind and he's

a tremendous asset to this country and the world. But I just kept making fun of him. Hey, hey, can I get you to do, I know you're over, but we can, you know, I have to cut. No, I don't, but this guy does. Okay. So, so. You'll, you'll chop this up any way you want. Yeah.

Yeah. And, and okay. So, so we, we did, we had a rewrite table on Thursdays. Yes. And the Bush-Dukakis debate. Oh, right. Yeah. And, you know, for those who don't remember, Dukakis was probably about what, five, six

or something. Yeah. And Bush was like, I don't know, HW Bush was like six, one, six, two. Yep. A lot in the news that Dukakis was, could he stand on something and, and the camps were going back and forth like, well, it can be one Apple box, but it can't be two, you know, maybe it can be one step, but not a step and a half and they were negotiating. That's, was in the news.

So, we're looking for a Joe, you know, some way to do this and we get it from Conan only because he does sound effects or this sound effect, which is a hydraulic lift. Yeah. So, if you look at the, the, the piece. It was a John Lovitz is Dukakis. A hilarious Dukakis and he kind of gets behind the podium and he gets, and you see him like get ready for it. I've ever pitching this in the room.

And then the, then it goes up. I can't do it. I'm going to have you do it. And then it goes too high, but it goes like a, he has like a lever and yeah, you know, he doesn't have a lever. Maybe he did. Somebody else is doing it. But he is, he played it so beautifully because he is trying not to, Dukakis is trying not

to react, but he goes up to humiliated and he's trying. So what I did in the room was just like, what if he gets behind the podium and then you just hear and grinding of gears and like an elevator or something. Well, it kind of comes up and it goes, and now I was doing that laugh and I was happy that day. That was a day where, because I used to go back to my apartment, which was in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. And this is 1988 and this is back when you, I, again, things are not what they were.

You, Williamsburg, Brooklyn in 1988 was a scary place to live, height of the crack epidemic. It's not the Williamsburg of today where there's just. And why did you live there? I know it was less expensive than living in a safe place. I didn't know anything. And also I had not lived really in New York before and I was coming from Los Angeles where I had started my career and I didn't know. And so I had a friend, this woman, Lynette Cortez, who over the phone, I said, I just

need to find a place to live in New York. I just got hired at the Senate Live and she said, come live. I have an extra, I live in a townhouse and there's a room here that you could have. And I live in Williamsburg and I was thinking Colonial Williamsburg. I really was thinking like gas jets and cobblestone streets and people churning butter. And I said, that sounds fantastic. And then I got my brother, Neil, to drive me and we showed up in early February of 1988 pitch black freezing and we get off the Williamsburg Bridge and start heading south.

And then we get off and it's just looked like a, like one of those post-apocalyptic movies of burned out cars and all the street lights were dark. And someone said later on, they told me, yeah, the crack dealers shoot out street lights. So everything was dark and I keep thinking, what is this? We got off on the wrong thing and my brother, Neil, was saying, no, no. This is, this is Berry Street. This is, and then finally the car starts to slow down and he goes like, yeah, it's 242, and like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this can't be it.

This can't be it. And then he comes to a stop and it was a scary, scary place to live. And I remembered coming to work one day and I used to take the L. I used to walk eight blocks, I think north to get to the, in the L. I went and got fry boots with giant heels and I would wear a trench coat because I thought that it would make me look tougher. And I would have a cigarette coming out of my mouth because I thought this would make me look tough. But I just, I looked, I looked like six, I'm not a tough looking guy, and it's like two

kids in a raincoat. Yeah, exactly. It looked like, yeah, it looked like a 1930s movie where three kids try and get into a movie as an adult. You know, quiet, you, you're on my shoulder, shut up, I really like to see the movie. It was terrifying and then I came to work and I remember you were just listening to chatter, us chattering and you're doing something and then you just heard me say, yeah, no, I just came in from Williamsburg and you went, what?

You were living, you were living in Williamsburg and you went, yeah, and he said, you gotta get out of there. You're gonna fucking die. Yeah. I did. And I did. How long could it take you to- I was not there long.

Right after you told me that, I got out and I moved to 18th Street. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So thank you. You're welcome. There you have it. Yep.

There you have it. You know what? This is, this has been a joy. It's very nice having you here and laughing our asses off and let's do this again. This was really fun. Yeah. What do you mean? But what was that?

That wasn't interesting. I'm trying to, no, I was going like, I wonder when we could do it and how you do that? Do you do that? Well, you had Dana. Yeah. And then we're a couple times. It could happen again. You know, you never know.

Okay. Yeah. Well, what a terrible ending. It's an awful ending to an interview. Just to sort of, I thought, I think it's like a little, like a wind down. It's a wind down. Yeah. That's nice.

To be continued. Not to be continued. Yeah. Yeah. That way you want to. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

Your voice is getting really. Good night everybody. Good night. I'll franken. Thank you. A few episodes ago on the Zach Galifianakis conversation, you mentioned that you had written to E.B. White, the author of Charlotte's Web.

How old were you when you did that? Let's see. I would have been in high school when I did that. And he had this book of essays. And I wrote him this letter and I don't know what possessed me, but I dashed it off and I sent it. And I think I found out somehow, this is all pre-internet where he lived or basically what town he was in, and I sent it up to North Brooklyn, Maine, and then kind of forgot about

it. And then I think a month or two later, I get this envelope in the mail and it's a letter from E.B. White. And I've only ever had my, the letter he sent me, I never remembered what I sent him. All I knew is that in his letter to me, he said, he compliments my writing and he says, you said you have a hard time taking criticism, you're going to have a tough time as a writer. And so I remembered him saying that.

Which in itself is a criticism kind of. Yeah. But also what I remember very clearly when he, so interesting is that I wrote E.B. White and basically my main question was, not sure I can make it as a writer because I'm worried about criticism. And then what do I do? I become a comedian on television, replace David Letterman at a time when he's beloved and get more criticism than most humans get in a thousand lifetimes.

So that's just so funny that I said, I'm kind of afraid of dogs. And then I ended up in a career where I jump into wolf packs covered in sausage grease and just see what happens. I just find that really interesting. Well, Cornell library has recently unearthed the letter that you sent to E.B. I heard about that. Yeah. They found it and they found the letter and I never look at comments online because I'm

so afraid of criticism even today. They released it and I saw that it was getting some attention on the web. So I clicked on one comment and it was, and it was, you write like a girl. I am looking at your penmanship. I wouldn't say that you write like a girl. It's very gender fluid. Why did that bother you? Isn't that a compliment?

Because guys have usually have chicken scratch and girls have like, well, that's not necessary. No, anytime a man is told when his, you know, gender definition is challenged by someone else online, it can rattle you for a second. And usually, you know, I thought he meant, I was afraid. I hadn't looked at the letter yet and I thought that I made like my eyes had it full circle at the top and side of a dot and a little smiley face. I'm struck by how evenly spaced everything is. It's almost like this was put into a computer and like center justified.

It's incredible. Yeah. It's as if someone who wrote it was compulsive. I'm so sorry. Welcome to laughing at my pain. I'm so sorry. Yeah. I see that here.

We're back at laughing at the lesions in my mind. Come on. There are stains on this letter too, I wonder what those are. And you did, this is handwritten. You did a signature and then printed your name like. I know. Totally unnecessary. I love that.

That's endearing. I knew that people did that on printed on typed letters and I don't think I had a typewriter. So I wrote the letter, but then signed my name, but then printed it underneath as if it was a type letter. It's just a window into who I was, but I have to tell you, I really was worried about putting this all online. I think it's sweet. And I think you should take it as a compliment that you write like a girl, but I also think

that it's sweet that you wrote that letter to someone who you admired and it's sweet that he responded. And I think the person only said I write like a girl because in the letter I say, I'm so happy to be a little girl. I think they meant, you know, I think that's what they were talking about. I said, I'm so happy to be a little girl and to be growing up to be a woman one day. Why did you want to tell, you be like that? I don't know.

It was a very confusing time for me. That's okay. Yeah. Teenage years are confusing. I was wearing a 19th century, I remember this, a 19th century wedding dress when I wrote that letter. Okay. That's fine.

Yeah. You were going through, you were finding yourself. Was. It was my 19th century tattered wedding dress phase that I went through. What did you end up finding? One hell of a guy. Yeah. Just a really good guy.

Salt to the earth. Yeah. Where's he? Yeah. He died. He died in 1988. He got married often. He was, he was attacked by a mob, that guy, and then he was replaced by this guy.

You know what? I like this guy. He's cool. You like this guy? Yeah. I love this guy. This guy's my friend. He's like family to me.

I like him. That's nice. I know we do a lot of, you know, I do want to say we do a lot of sort of bickering, but it's all with love. Same. Love is a strong one. It's done with a level of affection and respect. What?

Respect. I don't know. Respect. Is it respect? No. You were going to say it was done with love, so you love us. You push it sometimes. What do you mean?

What do you mean? You just love to push it. What do you mean? You just love to... I love you. You just love to stick your chin into the buzz saw, don't you? I'm right here and you know that my... I love you.

You know that I am registered as a black belt in hurting people with my words, and I don't want to hurt you, but you keep coming at me with your irony nunchucks. I think you do want to hurt him. I think you like... I think it makes you stronger. I always... I compare you to the witches in Hocus Pocus, where they suck the souls out of the kids and it makes them stronger, and I feel like you've become stronger when you make fun of

people. Thank you. Yeah. I do. I do. Yeah. It's nice. I'm a soul-sucking witch.

Yeah, definitely. I love how it husks when I'm gone. That's great. Thank you. And guess what? Happy holidays to you too. It is true. Happy holidays to you too.

Merry Christmas. God bless us, everyone. God bless us, everyone. I was thinking about what if Scrooge had taken Ambien, so the three ghosts visit him, but then he just doesn't really remember it in the morning, you know, and he leans out the window and he's like, boy, boy. And the boy looks up. You know, the boy says, go get the biggest goose in the window and take it over to Bob

Cratchit. He just leans out the window and he's, boy, boy, and he says, yes, go fuck yourself. He just can't remember. He saw his own grave. He saw all this stuff, but he's on Ambien. He doesn't remember. And there's all this... He ordered some stuff in between the ghosts.

He ordered stuff on Etsy that he didn't even really want. And there's all these cookie crumbs in the bed and, you know, and then he wakes up in the morning and he's literally just been shown his grave and he was crying and he was like, but is this the way things will be or could be if I change? That is to be determined. Back to sleep. And then he orders a few more things. He goes on Amazon, you know, he watches some really weird porn.

He eats a whole cinnamon loaf that he doesn't even like and the crumbs are all in the bed. And then he wakes up in the morning, boy, boy. Yes, sir. Would you like me to go get the goose because your life has turned around? No! Go fuck yourself! You piece of shit! And the ghosts are starting to kind of drift back.

Did you hear what we... Oh, get out of here! What are you doing here? No, you've met us. I don't know you. We shouldn't have let him have the Ambien. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco Production in association with Earwolf.