Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Ambassador Rahm Emanuel

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Ambassador Rahm Emanuel feels a tremendous amount of self-loathing about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Rahm sits down with Conan to discuss prioritizing time with his family, serving as ambassado...r to Japan, opposing the raw exercise of power on the world stage, and the current situation in Israel and Gaza. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: (669) 587-2847.

Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, my name is Rama manual. And I feel a tremendous amount of self-loathing about being going in O'Brien's friend. Okay, you, and I hate to say this because you're, you're an ambassador. Yeah. You've served in many positions for our government, but you prick. How dare you? How dare you say that to me. How dare you say that to me. Fall is here, here and now, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends. I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there, Conan O'Brien here.
Starting point is 00:00:46 Welcome to Conan O'Brien. Needs a friend. No Matt Gurley today, he's got the flu or so he says. I picture him water skiing right now. Yeah, I don't believe him. Yeah, laughing and drinking a margarita all at the same time. But Sonia, you're here. I am, I'm here.
Starting point is 00:01:00 Yeah, no. I'm not going water skiing. No, no, you're with me because you believe in me and you have faith in me. No, it's because I couldn't go water skiing to. Yeah, right. You could, you tried really hard. Really wanted to go water skiing.
Starting point is 00:01:14 All right, well, we have a show today where we're not gonna do a lot of chit chat first because our guest happened to be in town and we ended up talking about a lot and we went long, so I think we're going to get right into it. My guest today is an American diplomat and former mayor of Chicago, served in the Clinton and Obama administrations. And he now serves as the United States ambassador to Japan. This gentleman has a very unique perspective on what's happening in the world
Starting point is 00:01:46 right now, and I thought it might be valuable to check in with him. Get his take. Ambassador Rama Manuel, welcome. This was a mistake. It was a mistake having you on. It was a mistake. It was a mistake having you on. It was a mistake. We got to that conclusion. Let me give you a little bit of background, which is a couple of years ago, I do a week of shows in Chicago. And you as the mayor of Chicago at the time, and you've held many posts, you agreed to
Starting point is 00:02:20 come on and give me the Chicago citizenship test. Other members, huge laughs, huge laughs. Went over very well. I tell our members laughter. I don't recall much else, but you did a solid. You did that for us. It was also your best ratings if I remember correctly. We look that up right now.
Starting point is 00:02:40 It's our only rating. That Nielsen thing is really coming. It's our only rating. Apparently. That Nielsen thing's really coming in handy. It really is coming in handy. Also, we have a connection, which is, and I like to, you know, be upfront about that, which is, I thought we weren't going to talk about that on the show. We are going to. You have a brother.
Starting point is 00:02:56 Rumor has it. You have two brothers. Of course, one is an incredible brainiac physician, man of the world, Zeke. And then your brother, Ari, has been voted the most evil man in the world many times by evil magazine, and they really know this shit. Ari Emmanuel technically represents me,
Starting point is 00:03:17 but I thought this wasn't technically, it's really his friend, it does most of the work. And I thought it was okay to still have you on, even though there's a conflict of interest, because Ari has not answered my phone calls in about 15 years. Oh, wow. Yeah. You're like, uh, his brothers. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome into that. This thing. Wait a second. But first of all, when you do get up on the phone, yeah. Okay. No. Yeah. That's it. That's it. He doesn't listen. Um, and ever since Ari actually knows only like two pronouns and one adjective. So that's it. He doesn't listen. And ever since he actually knows only like two pronouns
Starting point is 00:03:45 in one adjective, so that's it. So you come from this family. We'll start with the family because you, Immanuel's are quite a group. You are three supercharged human beings that have come into life. And I come from a large family, and I wouldn't say that that's true of my brothers and I. What happened? What did your parents instill in you that turned you into these, well, semi-ferral, you
Starting point is 00:04:16 know, incredibly potent, powerful beings? Tell me what was the secret growing up in the Emanuel House? Were you hit with a cane? What was happening? I don't remember it being a cane. My dad actually did say, what do you wish Schmuck and then hit you? And that was his way of saying, I love you. So you got to understand you as right there. But that is a form of love. I said that. It is. There's a real story. I'm gonna do it for you, right? But, are you a schmock? Schmock. It's funny, there's a story. Yeah, go ahead. You got the same thing, right?
Starting point is 00:04:48 Yeah. The Irish, I've always thought. If you want a love of child, you don't hug it, you hit it. Exactly. No! I'm gonna hit it in the back of that with what are you a schmock? There's such a similarity between, and a kinship between the Irish and the Jews. And I have found that all my life, so many of my friends are Jewish
Starting point is 00:05:06 and because I feel like they understand me because growing up Irish and growing up Jewish feels like it's almost the same thing. Here's the one rule of politics. When somebody introduces another ethnicity, you stop and you call pull back because it's can only get you in trouble. I'll just believe what you just said. I'm not touching it after this. I'm gonna stay within the tribe, the Jews. Are you afraid to comment and maybe insult the Irish? Is that true? Are you afraid of the great thing about being Irish is that you can't insult us.
Starting point is 00:05:35 Yeah, when someone tells an Irish joke about the Irish being drunk or stupid, everyone in the room laughs of every other ethnicity and no one laughs louder than the Irish. So how many times have you come in? I tell you, I tell you, just screaming about what a... Daily! Daily! Yeah, potato eating, you know, beer chugging out. You call me. She's clearly never on for office because I'm not touching it in the city of Chicago,
Starting point is 00:05:58 not a chance. So here's what I do think. Actually, this is a very serious subject given what's happened to the American family And so let's put the emanules aside and you know, there's a great market Yeah, I just did it for you mark Twain has a great comment at 13. I concluded my father was a fool By 18. I was shocked what he learned in only five years and I would say this is a father now with three children two in the Navy one is You, just graduated
Starting point is 00:06:27 Princeton and is teaching yoga and is co-authored a book on national security and climate change. And I can't say it was a straight line to there, but there's, I totally am against this equality time and all this crap. You build a house, a love, and the value of education and the rest is up to the children. You tell them, second is, even when I was mayor, chief of staff, I used to say this when I was chief of staff, White House is family friendly to the first family.
Starting point is 00:06:59 And it's like a mess, but we set up rules. When I first, Amy and I did this together, The family will have time and the work will then get scheduled around the family not the family around work Mm-hmm And you make priorities simple things We had every Friday night Chabot. We had dinner as a family and whoever did the best grade that year that week in Reports got to invite a friend Second we had three nights the address a, Sunday and two nights during the week. Dinner is a family, all electronics out.
Starting point is 00:07:28 Second, mid-December, like early January, we went on a family vacation just as a family. Third, we used to go for walks on the beach as a family and stuff like that, or I take individual to kids, and Amy did the same thing. And you're proud to take kids. When the kids call at the office, nobody's allowed to answer the phone of me. And if I take individual to kids, I need me to do the same thing. And you prioritize kids. When the kids call at the office, nobody's allowed to answer the phone for me.
Starting point is 00:07:48 And if I'm in a meeting, I will tell them that you, my staff, cannot communicate. The children know they're my priority. My kids, when I ran for office, never once appeared in a commercial. Right. And you just, you build, and when I used to read, or let's say I was working after dinner,
Starting point is 00:08:04 I would do my work mainly reading, I've run the phone in one of the rooms when they're doing homework, just because you're present. And being more present than being either a drone or a helicopter is a better thing. And those are like lessons I learned from my parents. And I think that because I do actually, I have a lot of feelings about this. And I also, and I think this is actually a serious subject, then we'll get to the neuroses. The three Emanuel brothers live, not with love, not with that we live in fair failure.
Starting point is 00:08:34 That's the number one rule. And we'll bring shame to the Emanuel name if you failed. And I think that's actually a big motivator of ours. Beyond the fact that we are Zeke and I hate Ari, which is also a very healthy thing to do. But I do, we all hate Ari. And we also filled with a lot of self-loathing. But I really think this is a very, because a lot of quality time and people try to buy
Starting point is 00:08:57 their kids love with material things when kids are really emotionally needy. The other thing is I also, as a father of two daughters, they would probably disagree with me. I think a father's relationship with their daughter starting around, while it's always important, starting really in 12, is more important than a mother's. And I took Alana on a bike trip in Europe. Leia and I went to Israel together for her bopin. I think those are really really because a daughter then, as identity of herself, without having to have a boyfriend
Starting point is 00:09:26 or another partner to bring that identity. So I have a lot, I mean, I think there's really a bit of that. This is fascinating. I struck a nerve here. And there's a lot of wisdom. You did, because I actually think people don't deal with probably the most important issue
Starting point is 00:09:40 facing our country, which is the breakdown of the family. I don't care how many parents, but there is a value here that is, it cannot be dismissed. I have this theory, a dumb, you didn't want to do this show like this, but this is really what I care about. You seem angry whenever I speak.
Starting point is 00:09:56 No, I'm just angry. We'll analyze this later. Every time I start to speak, you come in with something, but I'm going to fight you back. Yeah, we have that in common. We have, yeah. Yeah. Which is wrong, yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:10:05 Right here. Which is Ram. I agree with you. We're not on a first name basis. Yes, you start with that. You start with that bastard. Ambassador. Ambassador.
Starting point is 00:10:14 I'll give you permission to get to Ram. How about Ambassador, and then if we really get lefty? Just ambi. How about this? Ambassador, your excellency. Your excellency. Your most real excellency. Dude, when I let you get to Ram, we'll know.
Starting point is 00:10:26 Okay, until that. Okay, but you're allowed to call me dude. All right, this is fantastic. What a great fucked up relationship this is. I will tell you. All in favor say, I, I have it. Oh, I see how things work in Chicago. You just steam rollered me.
Starting point is 00:10:40 No, I agree with you. I agree with you completely that it's, dumb it down is my theory a little bit, which is it's time around with your kids, even when I'm annoying them. And being a total pain in the ass, I know that yes, this is our time together. I'm really bugging the shit out of my kids.
Starting point is 00:10:59 This is golden time. I agree with you completely. Again, I will give you one anecdote when I was mayor. I think Lana was... I'm just going to clarify mayor of Chicago. I'm just going to give everyone the download. Chicago is the center of the world and center of the country. So let's just go there, mayor.
Starting point is 00:11:14 Sure. Dumb mayor. So we went to a black oxen, and she brought two friends, et cetera. I was wearing a final shirt at the Hacking Inn. And the next day a reporter from a major network was really, he says, well, on social media, you were ridiculed for wearing a, not wearing a blackock jersey, you were wearing a flannel shirt, et cetera. And I said,
Starting point is 00:11:34 you know, that's interesting. I think it's kind of cool that my daughter, 15, still wanted to be with her father, but I suppose what I was wearing as a shirt was really, really important. Yeah. Yeah. And there was this, you know, I think she was willing to go with her friends, with her dad, who's a dork, to a hockey game. That would have been like something we would have said, hey, that's important, and that's a good sign. No, let's talk about my flatish look, which was a very nice flannel shirt, by the way. And I want to say I got it from Rag and Bone, and I was really proud of it. Are you getting money from Rag and Bone's right now?
Starting point is 00:12:04 No, but I would like to. Okay. I can't do that. Don't. I don't know if the ambassador thing is over then I'll give it accept that. All right, you can accept that. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:12:11 Yeah, here's a great story. I give you a gold Rolex when you got here. And you put it in your pocket and said, mum is the word. Every, every Thursday. Keep it on the download, Abraham. Hey, every Thursday, I get a little yellow folder and you're supposed to sign these forms for the state department.
Starting point is 00:12:25 Here I'm gonna get fired right? If we only win five minutes in and it's for gifts above $25 okay and you have to sign it for ethics reform and record it. Right. So one day I come in and there's like 40 forms and usually it's like four or five for you know I go I'm signing I'm signing it and I'm like I'm feeling rushed I got phone calls I got to, I'm feeling rushed, I got phone calls, I got to get, I go, what is this? And they go, well, these are the, we got a lot of gifts because of this reception. And I said, I'm not signing these. They go, oh, you got to have signed this. I said, I'm not signing these. And they go, would you have to sign? I said, let me just be really clear. I'm from Chicago. You want to buy me a start to seven zero. So I'm not doing this for. If you think I'm selling
Starting point is 00:13:01 America out for Croatian sparkling white wine, you know, I am from Chicago. We have a number, and it starts with seven zeros. That's incredible. I said, you ought to open this ethics report, man. I am not signing this. I'm not reading it. By contrast. And America's not going for a cheap tradition.
Starting point is 00:13:19 I mean, I love Croatian sparkling white wine, but it's not going well, okay? I could so easily, you could purchase my loyalty with a candied ham. That's why I can't be in politics. I could be bought so cheaply. And later on when they were having the hearings to take me down, it would be, did you sell out our government for a ham,
Starting point is 00:13:38 a Harrington ham? I did your honor. I'd like to be, I'd take a rag and bone on November 8th, 2024. Yeah. All right. So it is also, I wanted to bring this up because I know this about your family having done some research, which for me is a lot, and that you were encouraged by your parents when
Starting point is 00:14:01 you got to the table to be up on what was happening in the world and discussed so that you could discuss it. Yes. And it's funny because there's, I know for a fact that being a Kennedy O file, that Joe Kennedy senior did the same thing with his kids. When they came to the table, he wanted them to be aware of what was happening in the world so they could discuss it intelligently. Is that something that, do you feel that that helped you a lot
Starting point is 00:14:25 when you were a kid, that you were encouraged, maybe even forced to read up on what was happening in the world in the States of the day? Yeah, well, it was, first of all, also don't create a mental image. It was not just mom, dad, and the three boys. Right. Grandpa and grandma lived with us.
Starting point is 00:14:44 Grandma, my dad's mother moved from Israel to Chicago when we first got part. So it was never like a quote unquote Acien Harriet nuclear family over there. And it was, first of all, it wasn't a discussion. Screaming was the tone in which you had a discussion and yelling at each other. And in fact, among the three brothers,
Starting point is 00:15:04 we will not discuss the movie Dear Hunter. It is awful limits because it becomes violent between our ears and I. Nope, we're not going there, even if they're not there. Well, I dear Hunter of all the movies, that's the one you always. You're vehemently disagreeing. Yeah, well, we vehemently disagree about a lot of things,
Starting point is 00:15:18 but that one has become literally taboo. And we can't even discuss in that. This is so great, because the next time you're giving a speech somewhere, I'm gonna be in the crying, I'm gonna go, dear her! And just watch you lose it in front of your family. Yeah, but back to the family, it's, and first of all,
Starting point is 00:15:35 the first most important thing was the fact that we all ate together and we all sat there. But it was actually, you had to be prepared starting at a very, very early age. And it wasn't like a kid's table and a dealt table or kids discussion and told me we also had like in the summer June first week, you had to write the three books down that you were going to read that summer and then at the end of the summer you had to pick the one book and lead a family dinner conversation on that book. Every child, every child and I still read my Zach my oldest son and I we picked my Zach Myel just on a night.
Starting point is 00:16:05 We pick books and recommend them. Lon I read, try to read a book with each child just me and them. And then say, but dinner conversations, the word conversation is deceptive. I would not call it a conversation. You didn't listen to somebody else. You just yelled at them about your opinion. Right. Okay.
Starting point is 00:16:23 You know, here's a difference. I'm going to, I'm going to posit a difference maybe, and this could be just my family, but because there's so many similarities between a Jewish household and an Irish Catholic household, but one difference in my opinion, and this is just my own personal experience is we didn't, there was no yelling. Oh, there was all. You guys just went into the colon? Yeah, I'm sorry. Because you're really not kidding. It went into the colon. And when I had my first colonoscopy. I could also be a doctor.
Starting point is 00:16:52 Who knew that? That was so quick without examining or touching your abdomen. And I knew that. When I was telling you, it everything gets repressed. Yeah, I don't know yet. Yeah, my first colonoscopy,
Starting point is 00:17:00 they opened me up. You know what, my father's screams. Come out of my ass. Here's a, from 1969. Get in here, you son of a bitch. I'll come out and a torrent. Here it is, ready? And the reason it goes there, as opposed to us,
Starting point is 00:17:18 you guys get it out. No, no, no, here's the difference. You guys hold it, and then on Sundays, you just tell the priest and it's done you're absolved and you go another week. We have to hold it all the way to Yom Kee pair and you get a whole year of holding this stuff. So that actually does burst out quicker because a year is too long. You guys just get a week and it's how long you can hold guilt. But see, this is interesting. And, don't you think it's true? No, I think there's
Starting point is 00:17:40 difference between a week and a year. I'm not going to give too much credit to the priest because I would freeze up. When I would get into the confessional and I year, I'm not gonna give too much credit to the priest because I would Freeze up when I would get into the confessional and I've talked a lot for let's unpack that I would get into the watch it watch it buddy. That's my religion. I told you I would go into the confessional There goes my I would I would freeze up because I would forget all the things that I was mad about or had transgressed and I would lie and I'd say I stole a lot more when I didn't I Would try to make it more interesting that is but Sona you come from I believe it's Armenian I've never really yeah, you know it's Armenian. I do. Oh my god. She's so Armenian
Starting point is 00:18:17 But you guys you scream at each other and you're just having a conversation right? Yeah, oh yeah Well, we're naturally very loud and then when we do talk we talk over each other and you're just having a conversation, right? Yeah, oh yeah. Well, we're naturally very loud. And then when we do talk, we talk over each other. It's the same with your family, yeah. So this voice is not recorded for the podcast. People can just hear it from the book. Amy said when we first, she came to her first family male, my wife, she said, why are you and Ari fighting? I said, we're not fighting.
Starting point is 00:18:40 She was, no, no, no, you were fighting. I go, no, we were talking. We're talking. And so it's very, when people come outside, it's very like this family needs Blue Cross Blue Shield. And it has to cover mental health, okay? So, I want to go over your resume very quickly and form the listeners. You were a very, very early advisor to the Clintons, to Bill Clinton back in Arkansas,
Starting point is 00:19:14 correct? I was part of the paint store. There's a group of us that when we first got there, the campaign was in a paint store. That's what we call ourselves the paint store, Clacks. And so what year would that be that you moved down in October, nine,ou one okay, and he announces in October. Yeah, okay, so you are Working very early in the Clinton administration then chief of staff senior advisor to Bill Clinton Yeah, I was then a Conversment mm-hmm second term. I was chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Third term I was caucus chair.
Starting point is 00:19:45 Fourth term I was a member elected for an hour and then I became chief of staff to President Obama's first chief of staff. And how long were you with President Obama? Twenty-one months, but if you counted twenty-one months that would be the whole thing from chief of staff. And then when I go out and I run for mayor of the city of Chicago, serve two terms. And then I took a break and then I'm ambassador for 20 months, although for the Japanese it feels like 20 years,
Starting point is 00:20:09 but 20 months. They're slowly getting used to it. I'm gonna say this, let me jump ahead to the ambassador rule. When you were announced or nominated or put forth as an ambassador to Japan, there are many people who thought, this is an odd choice because your style is so tell it like it is kind of pugnacious
Starting point is 00:20:30 and people thought this will not be a good mix maybe with Japanese culture. And yet that has not seemed to have been a problem for you. The Japanese people kind of like, am I getting it right? They like your three things. One, I evaluated all the advice I was getting, you know, you should, you know, Japanese are more reserved,
Starting point is 00:20:51 more quiet. And I realized, you know what, being inauthentic was not gonna work. And I said, I can be myself. And I've been in many, many positions, given my titles and roles I had to do and jobs. I know where you have a feel for where the line was. I haven't crossed it.
Starting point is 00:21:07 And it was better to be authentic. Second is, and a serious note, I mean, obviously, big thing about taking trains. I've taken trains my whole life. Japanese do love their trains. And I admire them, and I'm on them all the time. But I did this study. I had to office to do this.
Starting point is 00:21:23 Give me images for the last year of US government officials or pre-COVID of what's happened. And we'd like an Americans, seven black sedans drive up. You get out of the back of the car, the secret service running around, you walk into a building, and I'll tell you you walk out, you don't say anything to the camera, you get in the black sedans, everybody drives out. I said, that's it. We're not doing this. I said, I'm going to walk to my meetings in the government. We're going to take trains everywhere. And I said, and when people from our government come,
Starting point is 00:21:49 like Bill Nelson from NASA, he did a town hall with high school kids. And then you have to do one thing interacting with them, the public of Japan, because we are not going to act as arrogant as we are as a superpower. We're going to, we're going to, where our public engagement is going to change.
Starting point is 00:22:04 When Secretary Blinken came to Japan, he landed in Tokyo and took a train to the G7 foreign ministers meeting because you are going to engage the public where they live and we're going to show a different face of America. And then third, I do think the Japanese kind of look at me like, you know, when that, when a dog slightly hears a different sound and they turn their head, they're kind of looking at me like, we never knew somebody could be this kinetic. I mean, like, they're kind of, they're kind of both repulsed and attracted at the same time by the amount of energy and stuff like that.
Starting point is 00:22:33 So, I mean, now, and it's worked so far. I was saying, so far. There's one caveat. The trains in Japan are awesome. You want to, you want to, you want to, I mean, I would eat, I would eat on those trains. I would sleep on those trains. I would live on those trains, I would live on those trains. Those trains are absolutely gorgeous and they run to the second.
Starting point is 00:22:51 Wanna hear a fact? Yeah. Okay. So the shinkansen is their high speed, 150, 175 miles an hour. And you put a coffee cup, nothing spills. Right to the brim. All year. All shinkansen runs all year. How many minutes are they like?
Starting point is 00:23:10 And I said minutes. Three and a half. I mean, I'm like, no disrespect, and I'm a big user of the Chicago Transit Authority. That's between the mantra stop and the Irving Park stop. Okay, that's on a day for a train. And then I'm running down, I think, a great system. In Chicago, three and a half minutes.
Starting point is 00:23:30 And people get irritated when it's a little late. I said, like, you guys got a chill man. This is 10 seconds, but it's that efficient of a system. And it is, there's like the world's public transportation system, and then there's Japan. It's in a different class. A total, it's one of the marvels of the world. I'm not kidding. It's just an incredible, clean, efficient, well-run and respectful of you as a customer systems. It's really great. And now they want to build it to 220 miles. I'm like good at 170. We can't go five, okay?
Starting point is 00:24:06 But it's really an incredible system. I'm with you. Wait, 225 miles an hour? They're building a new Mac left. They want to do it. They're testing it now in Nagoya. It's really incredible. I'm moving to Japan.
Starting point is 00:24:15 It's, oh, let me tell you something. I'm telling you, when I've been there, I've absolutely loved it. I'd love to be ambassador if that's possible. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I'm going to do this. Compared to US Senator voting on you, you're going to do just fine. I will say it's a process. I'll give you one other thing. And I always say, what have you been shocked at it, whatever? And I came from the city of Chicago as mayor,
Starting point is 00:24:58 and this is true of any other big city in America. But I created these safe passage routes so kid could walk eight blocks straight to school, not thinking of their safety, but their studies. And we created these routes, employed people on the south side, west side, and shakaku. In Japan, little kids, five years old, backpack, this big, they're this big, in the school uniform, little baseball cat, they walk eight blocks to school by themselves. Get on a train, from low baseball cap. They walk eight blocks to school by themselves. Get on a train, the ones that we love.
Starting point is 00:25:27 They put their car down, their parents get an instant text that their child went through the turnstile. They cross streets and they raise their hand above their head, the car stopped. They know exactly where to cross. And they go eight, six, seven blocks to school. When they're let out, they're let out. The principal's not standing there,
Starting point is 00:25:44 20 parents running around. Just it's the single most beautiful thing in the world. And I always say to the Jeff, you don't see it because it's there every day. Yeah, you come from Chicago and it stands out. It's incredible beauty. I mean when I also got there, parent usually the mother is 20 feet 30 feet ahead and walking and the child is walking behind. She doesn't look, doesn't turn around. Not worried about a child being snatched, abducted, not worried about sexual harassment of a child.
Starting point is 00:26:15 They have their childhood, it's not stolen from. It's one of the most stunningly beautiful, gorgeous things in the world. What do you attribute that to? Is that cultural? Is it, I don't think I attribute it to, because obviously there are certain, obviously different policies and that gets into a whole other conversation about it's a society. You're not allowed to have a gun, you know, but there's so much, but it's not something that goes so much deeper than that. What is it?
Starting point is 00:26:44 It is. It's, yes, they don't have guns, etc. But that's not, that's not it. I don't think. And this is, again, I'm an outsider. I think there's a respect for life and respect for human beings and also a self-respect. And I think it's a, and also a shared sense of community and obligation to each other. And it's, that's an outsider who doesn't speak the language,
Starting point is 00:27:06 has a translator, asks people constantly. But my sense is there is a value put on the individual as a part of a community and enshrined into the DNA then of the society. So do the laws help that? 100%. Do they start there? No. They're an emphasis on top of something
Starting point is 00:27:27 more fundamental in the culture. I mean, there's also, I will be besides the training, the kids, there's, okay, you know, we can't get people in the office by 11 a.m. They can't get people out of the office till 11 p.m. I mean, I walk home from dinners and people
Starting point is 00:27:41 are coming out of the office at 11 p.m. They work non-stop. The other thing that is really beautiful, or I think is, I didn't like it at first, but you go to a restaurant, you walk out, and the chef's last show is there, and they bow to thank you for coming, and the hand you would gift.
Starting point is 00:28:00 No tipping it's allowed anywhere. That's their job, and they want to make sure you not as a slow customer, but as a client enjoyed it. It's really stunningly beautiful. Now, they have a challenge, they have a department, a cabinet position for loneliness. So not everything is perfect. I'm familiar with this. I did a trip to Tokyo, one of my travel shows. And while I was there, we discovered the concept that you can rent family members because it's a real issue. So I rented wife, daughter, and grandfather. And then I started, and it's all perfectly legit. They just hang out with you.
Starting point is 00:28:50 Nothing creepy happens. But there but it was so great because I ended up talking to the grandfather about all the things that bother me about my father. And it was very therapeutic. And he didn't speak English. So he understood none of it, but smiled with this beaming father. And it was very therapeutic. And he didn't speak English, so he understood none of it, but smiled with this beaming smile. And I felt like it was worth six years of therapy. I left those people and I was like, I missed that guy.
Starting point is 00:29:14 I think you scared them. I did, probably, explain them. Well, I'm a very strange looking man. I'll stand out. Also, the one other thing is, you go to a restaurant and they'll explain to you, oh, this fish is caught in this bay, and this is the only time of year.
Starting point is 00:29:27 And I'm like, and the corn is grown, or, you know, the rice is here, or the vegetables. And I said, you know, in America, the big thing is farm to table. I said, you guys been doing it for like 800 years, you may want to market this thing, okay? Okay, okay. We think we've discovered something,
Starting point is 00:29:44 like you've been doing for 800 years. Okay, okay. We think we've discovered something, think you've been doing very hundred years, okay? Yeah, we came up with that 11 years ago. It didn't exist until somebody grew up in the back yard called Farm to Table, okay? This is a thing, because there's something, this is a unique opportunity to have, to talk to someone who's had these very different
Starting point is 00:30:04 positions of power. And I'm trying to understand, obviously, the world internationally is a frightening place right now. I maintain, it's always been a frightening place, just that we have more access to all the remaining people. Yeah, but it is without a doubt, we're facing all these challenges and I agree with you. I think you've gone out of your way to identify certain parties because there's a tendency to go, well, it's gray areas, black and white.
Starting point is 00:30:36 And you are identifying certain regimes, certain parties, whether it's Putin, China, you're saying, look, these people are bullies and we have to stand up to these people. And this is a value of the United States of America when I think a lot of people are feeling a little wishy-washy about that. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, I mean, I'm very specific about China and in the recent past, Russia, 100 percent because it's not just their bullies, but they're also
Starting point is 00:31:11 look, there's I don't mean to make it binary, but in this case, it is because they've chosen, which is you either can have a rules-based system, applies to all, or you can have the raw exercise of power that applies to the powerful. And I don't think you want to live in a world where the raw exercise of power. Second is Putin and well, Russia and China have decided to militarize their maps. Okay. And they're going to execute those maps, their vision of the world, where the boundaries are, where the lines are by armed forces. That is not the world we want to live in. Now, we are not a perfect judge of the rules. We have violated them. We have been
Starting point is 00:31:44 imperfect, but we have bet we have more often than not abided by them and more often than not held other countries accountable when they violate them. And when you don't have American power, the country, the world does feel like it's office access as you do right now. We're sitting here today talking. And that is why we have a responsibility. And then when it comes to situation, I'll give you an example of the most recent thing about China. You know, in Japan, the prime minister did a cabinet shake-up and announced I'm
Starting point is 00:32:11 going to have a new minister of foreign affairs and a new minister of defense. And he announced it to the world. They barely have an armed forces now. They're building it up. China in that same period of time, the foreign minister and the defense minister both went missing. Gone. And they have 500 nuclear head weapons. I'm sorry, you want to be a world power? You have like China has a lot to contribute to the world. But if you have 500 nuclear weapons who's in charge? Because God forbid something happens in the next three weeks. We'd like to know is it a 800 collect call or who are we calling here?
Starting point is 00:32:45 Okay, and I'm sorry, this is not the secretary of agriculture or the head of the environmental industry. This is the two people, two positions that outwardly face the world. You have an obligation with 500 nuclear weapons. Just like, who are we calling? Are we doing on a zip call? What, how are you doing this?
Starting point is 00:33:05 Right. And I'm and we're gonna call it out because this is not you want to lie about your unemployed youth. You don't want to release the data. You think that's something that's how somehow the youth are going to feel better. Fine, go do that to your youth. But when it comes to minister of defense,
Starting point is 00:33:21 you don't get to say, I ain't telling you. Who are I since trying to knew that I was doing your show today, today they announced he's no longer the minister of defense, you don't get to say, I ain't telling you. Who, since China knew that I was doing your show today, today they announced he's no longer the minister of defense because they knew we were doing this show. And they were really scared of that we were going to be so press. The Chinese are terrified of me. That's been for a long time. That's going to get you ready? That is your opening line for your confirmation, Harry.
Starting point is 00:33:41 Okay, there it is. You're just wrote that. I'm going to turn off my name is Conan O'Brien and the Chinese are terrified of me. Okay, no, nine you to two, nine you to two. There you go, get confirmed. You gotta get the two to show off. That's someone's gonna say there's this footage of you
Starting point is 00:33:54 in 1998 jumping into Caramel and a Faw. No, but here's the thing, and my thing is, I'm China, they put a map out. Yeah. India. Official complaint. India, official complaint. Indonesia, official complaint. Vietnam, official complaint. Philippines, official complaint.
Starting point is 00:34:12 Japan, official complaint. Malaysia, official complaint. That is an incredible map to put out and everybody in the neighborhood doesn't like it. And we have, G has made a decision to have a rigid as fast about China's great past. We've just gone through Putin's desire to be Katherine and Peter the Great all wrapped up in one. And that's the
Starting point is 00:34:35 17th and 18th century. I hate to see what if they go back to the 15th century. So forget it. We're gonna call them out. And here's the deal. You want to do the raw exercise of power? Fine. We're gonna be for rules and guess them out and here's the deal. You want to do the Royal Exercise of Power? Fine. We're going to be for rules and guess what? And here's the other thing that Americans have to remember. We have an immigration problem. People want to be part of our world. Okay. But what meant young men, the future of Russia, Moscow and St. Petersburg, they've left.
Starting point is 00:34:58 Beijing, Shanghai, left. Yeah. There's a young woman just died, is brain dead in a hospital in Tehran because he grabbed her in a subway They're dying on the streets. Nobody. There is no immigration problem in Iran, China or Russia They have an immigration problem not an immigration problem, right people we forget this breaking news Freedom is seductive and people want to be a part of it Yeah, and we suck a lot of times because we don't allow a lot of people that live here to be part of that. And we have to work on it. That said, do never lose sight of how
Starting point is 00:35:32 powerful this country is in the values we have and people want to be a part of it. And I'm going to call out China, call out Russia, because they need to be called out. Oh, man, see this specific. That felt therapeutic. So thank you. We're going to play music under it. OK. Can I get a little bit? Not the music you want. I would like piano. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:35:50 A little fill of glass pieces or something like that. It's not going to be what you want. Wait a second. It's going to be Jethro tall. I can't live with that. Okay. Okay. There is something I wanted to ask you about, because there's something I've been thinking
Starting point is 00:36:15 about recently, which is obviously I have very strong opinions that we need to help Ukraine as much as possible and that Putin has to be stopped. That is a very clear issue to me. But as a history buff, and I know you're a history buff, I know that there's something in the American DNA that has always made us very reluctant to get involved. We were very reluctant to get involved in World War One, very reluctant to get involved in World War Two when it was clearly a moral imperative. And we are as a country, the United States has always wanted to say, we want to take our toys and go home. We just want to stay here.
Starting point is 00:37:01 Let's not get involved. It costs too much money. When the money involved in helping some of these countries is a fraction of what we spend on other things, which I think are probably less important. What is it about Americans? You think that's changing? Or do you think that that's something
Starting point is 00:37:16 that's just in the DNA of being an American that we would rather not, given our brothers get involved? Well, it does go, I mean, to go back in history, it goes back, I mean, 100 years and you got more than 100 years, rather, to the founding of not being involved in Europe's wars, not being involved in other wars. Now, it does change post-war war two, where there's a decision, and I just finished this great book on Max Hastings' books on Korea.
Starting point is 00:37:45 I did not realize how significant a drop off post-war war two was in the defense. The clearly, you could say, from a deterrent standpoint, had everybody points to the action since speech, but we actually were caught flat-footed and not capable right after World War II as it related to the Korean War. Yes, militarily. to the career war. Yes, militarily. We weren't prepared. Not only not prepared, but it defenswise how significant a draw down that was.
Starting point is 00:38:11 So we almost, you could argue in the first five years, repeated the same thing, mistakes of the post-World War I. But America's don't, they don't want to be obligated and worried with the rest of the world. But it keeps knocking on our front door. So we start this process of, and that we're in the middle right now, the early stages of that process again, post the Cold War, where things were working accordingly, and we let our deterrence guard down.
Starting point is 00:38:37 And now we're in the mad dash rush, both in Europe, the middies, and Indo-Pacific, of getting our deterrence back up to where it needs to be, so we don't have these type of wars. Yeah. And I think it's very easy, politically, for people when there's time to travel to say, why are we spending money over there? Why are we spending money on those countries when America should come first,
Starting point is 00:38:58 without thinking a little bit further and thinking, no, this is in our vital interests? Well, I actually, I'll go back. I think that's a false choice, which is there are things that we should have been spending money on at home. Yes. Okay, but it wasn't coming at the expense of spending and doing the type of things you need to do at home overseas.
Starting point is 00:39:17 And for a long time, we didn't make the type of investment. And I'm going to do a plug here for my boss, President Biden, because I do think the type of things that he's doing, whether you talk chips, infrastructure spending in the United States, or for that matter on climate change type of investments, those are desperately needed for America, desperately needed for our leadership, but they don't come from the same powder resources, or somehow mean you can't invest in certain things here, when you're making sure that Ukraine does not disappear as a country, a language, a people, and an identity separate from distinct because the best thing we can do to crumble Russia is to show a successful Slavic nation on its border,
Starting point is 00:39:57 democratically, politically, society-wise, and economically. And that is what he lives in Pharaoh, is that in fact, is when you look at Poland and its success, you look at the rest of Eastern Europe, Lafayette, Lithuania, Estonia, and then if you crane join that, the mirror, it would be a house of mirrors for him, and he would, and all his warts and all would it be exposed to the Russian people. I was shocked that, I mean, obviously he's got things locked down, but I, I don't know what is. That is what you think. No, no, well, exactly. I would, I would have thought that a recent insurrection by his top military, I would
Starting point is 00:40:37 have thought that that would have weakened him more. Maybe it has. I don't know, but it, I'm kind of stunned that Putin probably, I mean, he does, as you said, admires the Zars. He probably has its set up that he's impregnable. There's one thing this is true about Putin and G. We used to think of this and we have to update this. We used to think of the Gulag you get sent away, they take you out. Because of the phone and technology, the gulag comes to you. You don't go away to the gulag, it comes to your front door into your house and on your
Starting point is 00:41:14 phone. You make a phone call, they know about it. You text, they know about it. Not just who, what, and what you said. When you go and you're at a scene, God forbid, you're at a scene where there's a protest, they know you were there. So the gulag is not a place you go, it goes with you wherever you are. And that's how they have perfected the state operation.
Starting point is 00:41:35 And we have to start changing the way we think about it. And that's why while I'm not saying they're absolutely secure internally, they have mastered the security system in a way that we not even begun to think about. You did come in here with several phones. Yes, I did. In fact, I want to make sure that actually the Communist Party is meeting now. Can you speak a little louder please?
Starting point is 00:41:57 Hi Conan here. You're greatest fear. But that's got to be one for you. Do you go to government and family and another one for my mother? Someone that's not charged. That phone's from 1988. It's a giant brick with an antenna. That's from mom.
Starting point is 00:42:23 That's it. You know, he kicked you over his that flip phone. Why do you use that? So his mother can't an antenna. That's from mom. That's how you know Chuck Hoover has that flip phone. Why do you use that? So his mother can't call him. That's why. I want to bring up Israel. Obviously, this is is incredibly complex conversation and a complex conversation for anybody who's, you know, it's generation.
Starting point is 00:42:55 Anybody who's called Ram is Rolomanial. Yeah, it's a very complicated conversation. He's Italian. I would give you this, I used to take in the mornings I would never tell you when it needed to be. I'm going to give you this. I used to take in the mornings, I would do it in the Clinton White House, I'd go in and Leon Panetta was the chief of staff and I would go in and I'd start 7 a.m. by Wihina and we're the first three to get there and I would scream it.
Starting point is 00:43:18 I would Leon goes and then my hands are flying and Leon go, what are you Italian? I go Italian enough to date your daughter goes, you're not that Italian. I just look up at me, you're not that Italian. I just look at you, look up at me, you're not that Italian, okay? No, you're Italian, but not that Italian. Don't, ramen is real manual, that's the thing there. So let's talk about this. So obviously what's happened in Israel
Starting point is 00:43:42 and what's happening right now in Gaza is dreadful and this has been a passionate interest of yours your entire life. It's part of your family legacy. How are you feeling about things right now? It's like I have 600 feelings and I think that's just a good start. I'm amazingly depressed. I'm angry. And my anger doesn't have just one audience. And I'm pained. I mean, I, I, I, and I don't even think I'm scratching the surface.
Starting point is 00:44:21 Yeah. I mean, I start. So one is having worked on the Oslo courts with President Clinton, the Y Plantation. One of the more memorable times was going to Aqaba, Jordan watching the Israeli army and the King Hussein, and Yusuf Rabin signed a peace agreement. One of the most beautiful things I saw in public life
Starting point is 00:44:41 was when they played the national anthem, the Israeli military leadership, facing the Jordanian military, stood at attention. And when they played Hatik for the Israeli national anthem that was reciprocated, that was a stunning way to end a war and end hostilities, to see two armies stand at attention and to the other countries' national anthem stand in full honor and respect of that.
Starting point is 00:45:09 Now, I kind of describe myself as a security hawk and a dove on peace. That's kind of, and I think the abandonment of, by both parties, and I think more abandonment by the Palestinians when you look at all the opportunities they could have had by the Palestinian leadership, not the Palestinian people. I think the Palestinian people from my understanding, the last to give up on peace, I think their leadership abandoned it.
Starting point is 00:45:33 And never you can't sign a peace agreement or Oslo courts and two weeks later blowing up buses in Tel Aviv. Just you either got peace, you know, as Yogi Bereson when you get to Oforkin the road, take it and they didn't do it. Now that said, there are leaders in Israel who also walked away from it. That said, 1400 citizens of the state of Israel in their homes were raped, murdered, to capitate it in a total violation of their rights and what we believe in. And no government would allow that to happen to any citizen.
Starting point is 00:46:08 And so I'm like, and I don't think I have a singular emotion. I have not only multiple, I have contradictory emotions. I mean, when I was back in Chicago, it was as you probably saw a young Palestinian child was murdered. And I called the parents. And I would reach out to the father and I talk to the father and I just be, no parents should have a child killed because of ethnicity. So you ache as a human being.
Starting point is 00:46:33 That said, a state exists. The first responsibility of a state is the security of its citizens. And you violated that. And for Israel and that neighborhood, to turn, we were just talking about it as a racism in the United States, to turn, you know, your first and that neighborhood to turn, we were just talking about it as a race of the United States. To turn is, you know, your first and foremost responsibility is to turn to the turn to the turn. And I'm sorry, they're going to restore returns.
Starting point is 00:46:53 And I get that and it's unfortunate because there's going to be a lot, a lot of loss of human life. And I also say this, and, you know, Israel requires weapons to protect its citizens. Hamas puts his citizens in front to protect its citizens. Hamas puts its citizens in front to protect its weapons. That is not a moral equivalence. It just is not. And there's a moral difference here, and you're seeing it play out, and it's going to be horrific now. I could go on and on about this, but I will give you one thread of optimism, where the world feels on the losted sexist. I think not immediately, and it's hard to say because we're sitting here on week two of a horrendous moment.
Starting point is 00:47:38 You know, if you think about 73 is the Yom Kippur War, 79 israel and Egypt, make peace and disengage and it's basically since 79 held through a lot of tribulations. I think a couple things have occurred. One this fallacy that is or could have a great economy make peace with the global area and ignore the Palestinian fact is not true. Now whether a Palestinian leadership wanting to show up and make peace, that has to come out of this.
Starting point is 00:48:08 I think that may, starting to appear. Second is the idea that you can obliterate Israel, or it's not, you know, from, they say from the, from basically the CEO Galilee to the Mediterranean, that also fallacy is off. And I think with the right leadership and coaxing, mainly by the United States, but not absent others responsible, you can get to a place, not immediately, not the first year to a place where you actually make something of this tragedy and tragic moment. But there's going to have to be a level of deterrence
Starting point is 00:48:45 reestablished and a level of security reestablished. That is a thread that there is a better place. And I think out of the rubble you'll get there. This leads me to a much bigger question I had for you, which is after all these different positions you've held, and you've been in the belly of the beast. The beast, you've been in the colon of the beast, you've been in the lungs of the beast, you've been in the heart of the beast. You've migrated from organ to organ in the beast.
Starting point is 00:49:17 I always describe myself as like a 52% optimist, 51% to 52% optimist, which is I understand that the world is a terrible place, but I still think that things are slightly better or could be better and that we are moving very slowly forward. I think President Obama has the same feeling that history does not progress in a straight line, but progresses. Where are you in all that? With your unique perspective?
Starting point is 00:49:49 Well, I mean, as a former ballet dancer, sometimes you take a step forward and sometimes you take a step sideways and sometimes a step back. So I think with human agency, it gets better. Without it, it falls backwards. And there are certain things you can look at, and not just because they're scientific, but other things where it has improved. And so I'm slightly on this side of optimism, because if you weren't, you wouldn't get out of bed anymore. Yeah. Okay. I am, and going back to Lisa on this, because we're talking about this. When I think back, I mean, so I organized the signing on the South Lawn, the day of
Starting point is 00:50:32 et cetera, not the negotiations that was held by the Israelis and the Palestinians. Was that September 13th 1993? Yeah. You know why I know that date? Yeah, because you're Jewish. Because I'm very Jewish. You're Jewish. You're a Jew. You're a Jew. Why am I an that date? Because you're Jewish. Because I'm very Jewish. You're a Jew. I'm an Orthodox Jew.
Starting point is 00:50:48 Yeah, yeah, Jew wannabe. And that was the day my late night show started. And so it gave me the perfect joke for the start of that. And so in a very, so this is how egotistical I am. I think of that date, that historic date of peace. And that photograph is the day I started my late night. You are this is so I always is that that's how sick I am.
Starting point is 00:51:11 Deez at New York is focused on the oral. I was like yeah, DC's focus on power and L.A. is focused on itself. Yeah, it's such a yeah. So here I and I was thinking this historic moment and I brought my father who fought in the war of independence for Israel and fought in the Ergoan, the one of the undergrad, the right wing underground, and I brought him to the signing. And I remember going with President Clinton to talk about for the signing with Jordan, the Yplantation, we'd helicopter every morning up to the Yplantation for the negotiations
Starting point is 00:51:41 between Netanyahu, Arifod, et cetera. And I wasn't there, but I talked every day to President or really every day to President Clinton during the camp, David. And there was a struggle, but you thought there was a ticket to a better place. And then you look here and you were kind of pulled back. But in the end of the day, I'm on the,
Starting point is 00:52:02 it does get better, but it gets better with human agency. Yes. Yeah. That's the part you have to, it doesn't get better. There's not a gravitational pull towards justice. It only gets better with human agency and hard work. And it's interesting. You say that about President Obama.
Starting point is 00:52:21 He, I've seen him sometimes where he's a little on the darker side too. I'm sure you. No, I've seen him sometimes where he's a little on the darker side too. I'm sure you're right. You're not going to get over not all of us. When you do that stuff, you, you in the end of the day, you kind of come there, but you're have some moments of doubt about this whole thing. Yo, it's a miracle. What does it, it's a miracle. You realize, for Obama was a mother.
Starting point is 00:52:42 It's a mother. It's a mother. That's a translation,. It's just gave you that's a translation. I know of a law. Oh, trust me. I have always understood that there were days when Mahatma Gandhi came home. It was like, fuck it. Fuck it. Fuck it.
Starting point is 00:52:56 Three things. I used to say it though. I used to say it though White House. I used to say it though White House. You know, like, think about it's Friday. Two more work days till Monday. The other thing is a far cheaper step. Now, you go from the east wing to the west wing, that walk. There's like three oils of George Washington, two of Jefferson. You go next door as the Rose of Elrumb, you got Truman's over here, you know, you have
Starting point is 00:53:20 a couple atoms over there. I'm like, you know what, we're going to take these down and we're going to put up film more, Zach Taylor, and you know, a couple atoms over there. I'm like, you know what, we're gonna take these down and we're gonna put up film more, Zactalar. And, you know, a couple of these up here because I'm telling you that walk, each wing to the west wing, the worst walk anywhere in the world. Because you literally go those 200 feet and they pass Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Monroe, Jackson, right Teddy Roosevelt, Frank Roosevelt.
Starting point is 00:53:46 What, I don't know, I think Zack Taylor was okay. I mean, we can try. I could be graded on a curve. Let's get Zack Taylor in there. Let's get Phil Moore in there. Then we're doing okay because by the time they get to the Oval Office, it's a mess. They have their head as a total mess.
Starting point is 00:54:01 Better for the cheapest. It's not good they should do this. It's not good for the chief of staff. They should have a so- Let's get back to who this is born. That is not good for the chief of staff at 8 a total mess. Better for so- Yeah. It's not good they should do this. It's not good for the chief of staff. They should have a so- Let's get back to who this is important. That is not good for the chief of staff at 8 a.m. in the morning to go like we're going for Mount Rushmore. No, no, no.
Starting point is 00:54:13 We're going for a highway here in a high school, okay? We are not going. Can you like, what about high school? Okay. We need a name in high school. That's a win for you today. Do we have to do Mount Rushmore again? Yeah. Saturday at 8 a.m. I mean, come on.
Starting point is 00:54:26 So worst walk in a literally everybody talking about the walk is shame. No, the walk from the East Wing to the West Wing. It's a horrible walk. Take Washington out of here. We're gonna put in here. Buchanan. Okay. He hasn't really got a bad. All right, all right. I'm gonna go back to everybody. You know, but like, yeah, no Buchanan, Andrew Johnson put him up. Yeah, I'm not bad. I know. All right, all right, I'm gonna go back to every day. You know what I'm like, yeah, no, you can't, and Andrew Johnson put him up. Yeah, I mean, it's so terrible.
Starting point is 00:54:49 You can't, it was bad, I'm gonna give you something else. So, my middle one, who I loved dearly, I love them all, I used to, that was the other thing my mother used to say. I used to say, you love Zeke more than me, she goes, no, I hate you all equally. That's also a key point. That's a mother's love right there. I said, I explained a lot about you.
Starting point is 00:55:04 I said, my mother, I said you. I said in my bottom. So I said to Alana, you have to start reading history. You have to start doing this. I said, Zach and I do this. So pick a history book. She gets a, she, okay, okay. She comes back and says, one nation under sex. I said, okay, that you picked it, we're gonna read it.
Starting point is 00:55:22 It goes through the sex lives of all the presidents Buchanan Little known fact Okay, and it was known at the time written at the time. They probably had a different word for it back then They probably did but it's his love letter His letter his letter his letters to the Alabama Senator very clear living together very clear It's without a doubt that we actually living together very clear. It's without a doubt that we actually, when you think of LGBTQ rights, you think of civil rights, you think of women about, we were ahead of our times as a country. People do not give us credit what happened between 1856 and 1860. We set a standard with James
Starting point is 00:55:59 Buchanan. Now he sucked on everything else, but there he was. God bless the movies ahead of his time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad you cleared that up. Did you know? Did you know a lot of people in here like, you can't again, I'm like, look, Bill Burr, I don't have time to get into that right now. Did you know that?
Starting point is 00:56:16 I'd heard rumors. Okay, I'm gonna get you to. But you know, I want to make people like, I think it's up to you can into it. You know, I don't want to out him. That's his choice. Well, it's amazing to me, it's not only that, it was talked about openly,
Starting point is 00:56:30 and in a society that was clearly not as sophisticated as ours, about like, whoa. So I'm going to send you some books on reading because I know you love presidential history. I like all kinds of history, but yeah, I love history. I read it non-stop. It's your favorite history book. If you had to pick one desert island. No, I'm not going to do that out. So here's all the on the Holocaust. I love
Starting point is 00:56:54 Daniel Mendelssohn's book six of six million. Okay. So recording of it's a story of the story of finding in one of the Pulitzer, it's a great book. On Civil Rights, there's this great book called The Sword in the Shield. It's about the history of the relationship between Dr. King and Malcolm X and how they learned from each other. On Lincoln, I still think Gary Will's book on Gettysburg
Starting point is 00:57:21 is how he wove the declaration independence into the civil rights, into the constitution, the fabric of it, I think that was a brilliant book. Right. There's like so many good Franklin Dolen or Roosevelt books. I do. I have a book I go back to a lot and I think I just read it for the third time was Guns of August because Barbara Tuckman took on the beginning of World War I just because was guns of August because Barbara Tuckman took on the beginning of World War I, just because it's all about how humans, this is how humans behave, and this is how humans start a war, where millions and millions of people are killed and no one even knew why, and no one wanted to go into it. I don't know, I find that always good. Right now I would read Paris 1919. Yeah, it
Starting point is 00:58:01 was a great book. Right. And then there's, uh, that is a great book. And then I think from military history, I love Max Hastings. I think he's one of the great military historians. I read a recent good great book on the Cuban Missile Crisis, which I think is an important book at this time. Well, this podcast has always been about getting people to read. Wait a minute. That's a different podcast. Our podcast makes people dumber. Yeah. But those are great recommendations. Thanks for taking the time with me.
Starting point is 00:58:30 I really appreciate it. I was against it. I'm still against it. And I'm pretty sure. I see questions. This hour come down to like three minutes. It was a short podcast. Do you guys?
Starting point is 00:58:38 We are going to cut this so much that you're going to introduce yourself and then you're going to be listing books. And then your and then your ass is out. No, this has been great. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm thinking of I'm thinking of licking I'm thinking of lifting my mother to Beijing. I think she'll find the system will crumble a woman. She will be running in the hidden city hiding for Marsha manual. A ron. No, a batter. Ambient.
Starting point is 00:59:19 No, a batter. Ambient. No, a batter. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. You're the most high. We bow to you. Thank you for being here.
Starting point is 00:59:28 Thank you for yelling at me and insulting me, but also bringing us who was the both of us are better for it. Nope. I'm worse. That's all we'll get. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian and Matt Gourley, produced by me, Matt Gourley, executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao,
Starting point is 00:59:47 and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Your Wolf. Theme song by The White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering by Eduardo Perez, additional production support by Mars Melnick, Talent
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Starting point is 01:00:37 you

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