Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Bill Hader Returns

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Actor, writer, and director Bill Hader feels tired about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Bill returns to chat with Conan once more about his favorite bits to do at parties, the timelessness of quality storytelling, and writing Barry backwards from its narrative conclusion. Later, Conan celebrates Matt Gourley’s birthday by exposing shocking details from his own lurid past. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

My name's Charles Bronson and I feel surly. That's it. We're using that as the opening. But it is not Charles Bronson. In fact, it is. It's me, Bill Hader. And I feel tired about being thrown in a Brian Strand. It's a lot of work, isn't it? Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are gonna be friends. I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hello there. Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Joined by my good chums. Son, I'm Sassian. Hi. How are you? I'm great.

You're doing fine. I am. You're doing great. Okay, thanks for answering for me. Sure, yeah. I didn't really want to know. I'm just checking a box here. Your eyes glee is doing fine.

And Matt Gorley, you're doing fine, aren't you? I guess if you say so. You bet I do. Okay. People want pep. They don't want to hear about problems. I was gonna bring up major grievances today, but if you tell me I'm fine, I guess I got nowhere to go.

Trust me, you're fine and quite happy with your salary. All right, we gotta talk about something today, which is actually, oh, it's a fun thing. It's just different. It's something called Conan O'Brien TV. Are you familiar with this concept, Matt? Yes, I am. Okay. Unfortunately.

Isn't that your dream? Just more Conan all the time. You're with me every day making a podcast, but then you go home and you get to relax. Oh, God. And instead of watching one of your classics on the Criterion channel, you get to hear some more Conan. But, you know, a lot of people would like this. I believe that in my mind.

I got a new free channel and it launches on Wednesday. I believe that in my mind. I believe that in my mind. What about your soul, Conan? I don't have a soul. No, I have a free, I have a new free channel. It launches on Wednesday, May 24th, and it's only on Samsung TV Plus. Yeah.

So that's crazy that you should say that because I do have that. I have a Samsung TV and that's when you turn it on, that's the first thing you see is Samsung TV Plus. I can't escape you. You can't escape me. And you know what? Most polls show that people don't want to escape me. We weren't in those polls.

Yeah. Because we were in prison. What a very strange poll to do, by the way. Do you want to escape Conan O'Brien? Well, the polling's in. Anyway, to celebrate the launch of my new channel on Wednesday, May 24th, for my New York fans, there's a treat in store for you. An ice cream truck roaming around the city that has my face on it.

This, by the way, was my childhood dream. And you follow Samsung TV Plus on Instagram or you can follow it on Twitter or Facebook for live updates on where to find my ice cream truck. And listen, you think that I've gone too far? I have not, sir. Listen to this. Jordan Schlansky is going to be in the truck handing out ice cream pops. Wow.

Jordan Schlansky is going to be at the ice cream truck to meet fans. And I think Jordan has many more fans than I do. People are always stopping me and asking me about Jordan Schlansky. Find out for yourself if he's real, because he's going to be in the ice cream truck handing out ice cream pops. And guess what? The pops are in the shape of me. Oh, my God.

You've jumped the shark. What is going on here? Did you make them do this? You know what I did? I didn't just jump the shark. I got on a motorcycle and jumped the fawns on the shark. Who is currently jumping the shark? Who is currently jumping the shark.

We've gone that far. And it says right here, get your Conan pop. While supplies last and come say hello to Jordan Schlansky, my associate producer who's going to be in an ice cream truck with my face on it handing out ice cream pops shape like me, Paul to celebrate. I want that put into Samsung TV plus. Popular usage that when you do something so stupid, it's jumping the fawns. Yes.

And you've done it. Yeah, I've done it. Fawns jump the shark now we have, we put a shark on a motorcycle and jump the fawns. Anyway, very exciting. And so check out my new free channel May 24th launches Samsung TV plus ice cream Jordan Schlansky ice cream truck Twitter, Facebook. Listen to the words coming out of your mouth. Wait, what's on this channel?

It's all Conan all the time, some of my best routines and bits from over the years. Okay. Classic Conan. Oh, I see. Great Conan. Okay. Are you high right now? I'm not high.

I just, you're just like, hey, check out my channel and then there's an ice cream shop. All you need. But what's on your channel? And it says it on this paper and you're not telling people what's on the channel. You don't need, listen, when someone says there's Conan or Brian on a channel, that tends to be all they need to know. Are you dancing or what are you doing? To avoid that channel.

Some of my classic stick and bits from years of performing. If there's anything I've ever done that you've liked that's going to be on there. There's also popular celebrity interviews with A-listers. Look at that. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. It's going to showcase all kinds of people.

I'm sorry. I'm selling this better than you are because you're all about that ice cream truck. I'm telling people what they can watch on it. Well, you can watch classic interviews I've done with John Ham, Ryan Reynolds, Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, Kevin Hart, Will Ferrell, Lisa Kudrow, Dal Gadot, Kate McKinnon, Martin Short. I mean, you could go on and on and on. I've interviewed everybody that was ever born or ever will be born. Anyone who's ever lived on earth, I've talked to them and it's all there on Samsung TV Plus.

But it's all about that ice cream. You've got to get the ice cream. No, this is uniquely curated stuff as 30-minute collections of clips. It's just, I mean, that's all you should have to say. Okay. You know? It's like a Porsche. It sells itself.

You know? Okay. I'm a Porsche. You think you're a Porsche? Yeah. Porsches don't come with Conan O'Brien in the back seat. Yeah. No, I'm not an actual, I'm just saying I'm akin to a Porsche and that I'm low slung and packed

with power. Low slung? I'm manufactured in Germany. What is low slung? What does that even mean? I don't like that. I can't, if you have to go over a speed bump slowly when you're driving with me. Anyway.

The bottom will fall out. Anyway, I think, I mean, listen to this, this is going to sweep the nation. This is going to be all people were talking about. Yeah. And so, wow, this is going to, you know what they're going to do? Anyone who was thinking of launching a presidential campaign anytime soon is going to hold off until this whole Samsung TV Conan pops in the shape of Conan ice cream truck, Jordan Schlansky thing calms down and then they're going to announce.

You know what I mean? Can you imagine DeSantis, DeSantis like announcing during this? And then his people come to him and say, Governor Ron DeSantis, no one knows you're running for president. But I told you to have a goddamn ice cream truck with my face in the form of power. Too late, Governor DeSantis. God, damn it. There was already an ice cream truck out there with Jordan Schlansky, DeSantis.

Jordan Schlansky. Oh, nuke Disney. All right. We've got to get on to the business of show. We have a wonderful guest today, a fantastic guest. One of my favorites, a dear friend, my guest today is the co-creator and star of the Emmy award-winning HBO series. And by the way, one of my favorite shows, Barry, which is currently airing its fourth and final

season. I'm so excited to talk to him today. Just, it's a joy every time I get to share any space with this gentleman. Bill Hader, welcome. I will say that when you come on the pod or even when I just get to hang with you, I laugh myself sick. I get, I'm sore from laughing at the stuff you do. It's so much fun to be around you, whether we're recording it or not.

And I remember now I had this party at my house and you showed up and we hadn't even greeted each other yet. There's a bunch of people there at some holiday party and you show up over my shoulder and you're a Germanic guy from the late 19th century who had, you laid it out immediately and I knew exactly what it was, but you just came up to me and use a guy from the late 19th century in Germany who had fought me in a duel over a woman and lost, but now you're putting a brave face on and your arm doesn't work because of the dueling. And you walk up to me and you were congratulating me on my house and my wife and trying to put

a brave face on it all, but seething with resentment. Very nice, O'Brien. It seems like you've done very well for yourself, O'Brien. I see. And you would say, oh, this is my son, you know, and I go, ah, you have a son. With the woman that you loved. Yeah, very well. I see.

Well, I appreciated the invite, O'Brien. I was quite surprised to get it. You were like, well, it's nice that you, I think you said, it was nice that you drove here. I go, flew. I flew here, O'Brien. But you could try to take that as long as you can. And then, yeah, eventually someone's like, will you guys please stop? Well, that is the nature of this world we're in.

Yeah, please stop that. But yeah, but I was so happy because, you know, rather than, oh, hey, thanks for having me over. A place looks great. This is a really good ham. It's someone I fought in a duel in Germany and I maimed and I won the woman that he loved. And he's putting a good face on it. Yeah, it was. Yeah, very, yeah.

And immediately. Stoic. Yeah, Stoic and maimed. How long did it take you to get all that exposition out? No, it happened immediately. No, exposition. I think he just turned around and was like, well, very good, O'Brien. I see you've got a very nice house here.

And he went, oh, oh, I surprised. You know, I was like, yes, I'm very surprised to get the invitation, O'Brien. Yeah. And then I think you mentioned since our duel. It all came out very quickly. And then it was like, yes, someone would hand you something like, this is the only arm that works, dear. Thank you very much.

I would love a tuna stick or whatever it is. I just, I don't know. I just was laughing just, but you know who likes those bits of the old school bits like that at those parties is Larry David. Yeah. And oh my God, when you get him laughing, it is, he really gives it up. It's like surprising when people go, what's Larry David like? I'm like, he is a laffer.

Oh, he laughs so hard at stuff. Yeah. Also, have you noticed that when Larry laughs, his jaw goes like a skeleton like. It's like if you just started yanking on the court of a ventriloquist coming up and down. That's his laugh. And it's kind of crazy, but because his character is such a crank, you don't get to see him lose it. But I had an experience where Dana Carvey famously does this thing that I absolutely love.

We both are obsessed with it. We're both obsessed with it. And he's done it here, I believe, where he, he's Jimmy Stewart and he's in a car with a hepper and he's trying to talk her into pleasuring him. And, but he also has very specific needs about, you know, how it should, how, I want you to act surprised when I take it out, but not too surprised. And he's very bossy about it. And it's, you're crying when you hear it.

So Larry, I'm talking to Larry and I do it for him. I said, this is Dana's thing and I do it for him. And he was laughing as hard as I've seen him laugh. I'm not gonna die. His jaw was, and so then I see him a couple of days later, I run into him and he went, oh my God, I was at this party and Bill Hader did Dana's thing. And it's the hardest I've laughed. And I said, fuck you, Larry.

That wasn't a party. That was my party. And I was doing it for you. And he was like, well, it seemed like Hader. It was really funny. No, I think what happened was also is that you do the Jimmy Stewart thing and the thing I do of Dana's, which again is a Dana bit, is the Burt Lankaster and Kirk Douglas having sex. And that's what I was doing.

And so when I would do that, which again is Dana's bit. We're all doing Dana's bit. It's all doing Dana's bit. But when Dana Carvey did that for me once and I fell on the ground, I was, yeah. Well, just a couple of fellas. Ahh, you know. Don't worry now. And I'm like, I want you to dig it slow.

And then the line that I always remember was, don't buck around now. I don't have a lot of play down there. And he, it is an old Dana Carvey bit, but when he did that, I just, when he came, he hosted when I was a cast member at SNL, and when he hosted, it did become a thing where I would just ask him, well, could you do this or you could,

I mean, I was just following him around like, yeah, a puppy dog, I was doing all the stuff that, you know, asking about, you know, Phil Hartman's stories and, you know, everything, you know, that was the thing. Well, he is fortunately that nice combo of one of the funniest people ever and also incredibly nice and kind

and probably to a fault people pleaser. But yeah, we took Dana out to lunch. We were here at the studios and then we went, we did something and then we went next door to get lunch and a couple of writers came along. He put on a show for the writers and very naturally, but just was going through all kinds of stuff and he was doing Henry Fonda and it was so funny

and afterwards the writers were thinking, you know, there's that dynamic that you hear about where the comedian is funny on stage, but then if you see them offstage, they're quite, they could be quite dour and you see that a bunch of times and then there are these people that just, nope, you can sit next to them on an airplane

and my wife and I once got on an airplane and someone behind us was like kind of heckling me and talking about, I don't know, they'll let the Irish on this plane and I guess they'll let any scum. What airline was it? Air Lingus, that was the part that shocked me. Yeah, most use this airline.

It's like, welcome to the airline. But it was sitting right behind us was Don Rickles. Oh my God. And Don Rickles was, and then the whole flight, like cross country was Don Rickles just peppering me with insults, but then telling great show business stories and it was one of the highlights of my life. Oh man, I watch his stuff on YouTube all the time,

him on Carson, him on all that stuff. I mean, did you ever see the one where he's on Letterman with Denzel Washington next to him? Oh my God, do yourself a favor. It's so, just that he was that age, I mean, he was really old and when he'd be on your show, he was hilarious, he's so fast. He's so fast.

So insanely fast. Also, he had this knowledge of, we all know there's this like weird line between music and comedy where somehow there's just things that sound funny and they work and you don't know why. And one of the things he discovered was someone would say something, he'd be like, that's right.

You know, like almost as if to say, you know, what do you want to clap on the back? And you say, what do you want, a cookie? Yeah, what do you want a cookie? He said, David Letterman goes, Frank Sinatra's wife's name's Barbara and your wife's name's Barbara, right? And he goes, what are you, a detective?

And he goes, what kind of, what's up with these, what kind of questions? He goes off on that question and just zeroes in on it. And he's like, you make a billion dollars a year and you ask the most stupid question. And I, it's the best. If you could find him with Dick Cavett in the early 70s, it's really,

because Dick Cavett's trying to give it to him. Like, oh, I like your act, but I always did like Jackie Leonard, you know what I mean? And he's like, oh, all right, you know? Yeah, oh, you really want to, oh, you really want to have a karate fight? Yeah, it's like Bruce Lee.

It's like, all right, cool. And then it's fascinating to watch. If it's on YouTube, it's really interesting where you could just tell he has zero, zero respect for him. When I was a kid, I watched old movies, almost exclusively. And I'm bringing this up because I want to bring it around to Barry, which I'm just, I have to say this is,

and not just because we're friends or anything, it is, I think, the best show on TV. I absolutely love it. That's really nice of you, man, thank you. Now, keep in mind, I don't see a lot of stuff. And he's never seen this. I've never, yeah. And he's never seen this.

I don't watch Barry. I've never seen Succession. Yeah, exactly. No, it is, I just love what you're doing with this show. And I know that this season you directed every episode, I believe. Yeah, every episode. And so I kind of just wanted to go back for a second and think you clearly are such a classic film buff.

And it comes through in your choices as a director and you take that really seriously. I know that, I think you were telling me once when you were a kid, you'd go over to sleepovers and people thought, oh, these kids are probably watching, you know, pornography. Yeah, right. That's like, no, you were watching a Clockwork Orange

or Taxi Driver. Yeah, I was watching Taxi Driver, yeah. Just studying the shots. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no one was interested in that. Or it was like, see how the camera, it's like a subjective camera move. I gotta go.

I gotta go. And they're like, guess it, they have those important things. What the hell's wrong with you? Subjective camera move. Why the hell are you in my house? The father comes in and tidy whities. I just hear subjective camera move.

Where the hell you come from? I want you to get out of my house. Looks like we gotta sell us a film buff. No, but it was more nerve wracking for that. No, but it was, yeah, you would watch that or watch old movies and it's just what you were kind of interested in. It was, you know, what the thing that you can't describe

the thing that you're attracted to that is what happens. And when I would watch movies, I remember, you know, my mom liked actors and things like that. And what always captured me was kind of the story or the way it was shot or the design of it. And just recently, you know, I have three daughters and I showed them a rear window. And it was fascinating because it started and they went,

yeah, this is like old, you know, 13, 10 and eight. Are they ready? And they're just, this is boring. Why are we watching this, please? No, and then as it went on, they were getting more and more into it. And well, and then it gets to this point, what is one of my favorite parts in any Hitchcock movie,

if you can remember the movie where Grace Kelly goes and gets, she goes and gets in the Raymond Burr's apartment. Yeah, the killer's apartment. The killer's apartment and he comes home. And then there's that great moment where she finds the wife's ring and she has the ring and she's trying to show Jimmy Stewart across street like I found the ring.

And then the camera pans up and Raymond Burr has seen that she's doing that. And he looks right in the camera. He sees Jimmy Stewart across the street. So he now knows I'm being watched and I now know what's happening. And when he did that, all three of my daughters just went, oh, and I thought, okay, this guy made this in the 50s,

early 50s, and there's just nothing that you can do whatever you want in movies, whatever. But if you have good storytelling and good craftsmanship, this is what you get, it's timeless, you know? And it really made me, that's why I keep going back to those because it's just like, it's just the bare bones craft of it, you know?

I love that you bring up showing these to your kids because I always feel like I have so much on the line when I show these movies that I love to my kids, especially when they were younger, because if they weren't having it, I felt destroyed. But I showed them, not too long ago, I showed them a deep throat. No, no, no, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Deep throat. Yeah, and you know what? It's got a lot of subjective camera moves. It's a clock. It's a clock. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

I don't remember this, kids. I don't remember this part, I'm sorry. I saw this in the theater, I was wearing an overcoat in the 70s. You couldn't get this stuff online back then. No, no. but the Times Square doesn't look like Times Square looks like Batman.

It had a real life, you know? Subjective camera move. Look at all these subjective dolly shots. Don't you think there are all those people like that, purists that are still wearing a raincoat while they are on their computer, watching porn? Like, artisanal vintage joke, yeah. They're just like, you know, this is how you do it.

Yeah, and they're making their friends dress up like a nusher, like, in 15 minutes, come in and kick me out of my room. Ha ha ha, say hey, hey, can it. The flashlight, say, hey, knock it off. Yeah, this guy's spending thousands of dollars to hire people. Hipster master beaters.

Yeah, yeah, hipster master beaters. Right, yeah. What was the film you were gonna... Just to think so I can say it, where he's... You know, the one, why am I blinking on... He gets dizzy when he... Oh, Vertigo Vertigo, Vertigo, I don't know why, old age.

The one where he gets dizzy. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Vertigo. What was the movie where you got There's the shower movie. There's the shower movie. There's the shower movie. There's the birdie movie.

There's the birdie movie. There's the dizzy movie. There's the dizzy movie. Then there's the peek-a-boo movie. Peek-a-boo movie. I might see you across the street movie. I showed my kids vertigo with some friends of mine, and they're watching it.

And at least they were old enough to appreciate, because I went on a rift at one point about, because it's kind of crazy. Jimmy Stewart takes this. It's kind of Dana's bit in a weird way. Beautiful blonde woman up in this tower. And then she goes flying out of the tower. And so then he comes back later on to the same mission

with, you know. Kim Novak. With Kim Novak. And I just do him running into a nun and saying, I'm just, we're gonna get one more try here. You see. We're gonna take her. And the nuns are like, no.

I don't know. No, you were here once with a blonde who looks exactly like her. She died. She died. No, no, no. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I saw, you know, when, you know, you know, the flag put one more time.

I just, I just, I just, I just, I probably think I'm some sort of a creep. And then I do him going after the second one. The second one like, I kind of landed in the same spot. I, the wind must catch. Oh, I get it. The wind catches her a bit.

And that's, yeah, right where the tiles meet the eaves. Yeah. And my kids were like laughing at that. And I thought, okay, at least we have. Yeah, it's all right. Yeah. It's okay. It's funny that, yeah, you try to watch those old movies

and sometimes they work, but then me and sometimes when the, my daughter had a big sleepover with a bunch of friends and I'm usually downstairs watching an old movie. They're upstairs, like, you know, whatever, singing karaoke and, you know, singing Carrie, you know, Katy Perry songs or whatever. And then they came down.

I was watching this movie called Jeopardy with Barbara Stanwyck. It's basically a story about these, this couple and their child go to Mexico and the father, play the Barry Sullivan, somehow gets stuck under like, there's a dilapidated boardwalk and he gets stuck under like a piece of it,

like a log and the tides rising. So he's like, you need to go get me help. And so she leaves her son there. She goes out to get help and she finds Ralph Meeker and she goes, and you just, and he is an escaped convict, right? So you're cutting back to Barry Sullivan, the water's up to his neck and he's talking to his son,

going like, don't worry son, he's going to be all right. Can you just set your pants on fire, son? Let's make a beacon and all this. And then she's with this killer and my kids, and then I turn around and like, more of these kids are coming in behind me and they're watching it and they're just totally, they go, how's she going to get back to the,

you know what I mean? I'm like, it's that simple, you know? And I came into the edit bay the next day at Barry and I was like, it really isn't that hard if you just can, you know, tell a good story. Right. That's what it's going to be. And so I get,

that's why I get very inspired by that stuff. I have to say, I had an interesting choice I had to make because I love Barry and I've been waiting, I loved the way it wrapped up last season. And I was very much fascinated with what's going to happen. And usually what happens is you might get sent an episode, but I got sent almost all the episodes. Yeah, you got sent everything but the finale.

And my pact with my son who adores this show, loves it and has great taste, is that we watch them together. And he has been unavailable. And I was like, I don't know. And I, and also I didn't want to cram. It was like this beautiful meal has been laid out that I'm looking forward to and they're like, you know,

and so what I did was I decided, I'll watch one and a half without my son, which I did. Cause, and then I will watch the rest of the season unfold. And I was, I trust you, I trust, I trust you guys. I know that you know what you're doing, but you have painted yourself into such an incredible corner and I'm riveted. I'm absolutely riveted.

I loved, I loved it and I love where it's going, but you've put Barry in this impossible situation, not just Barry, but I don't want to give anything away, but these characters are in this position where you think I don't see a way out, just enthralled, just absolutely enthralled. Yeah, that tends to be what happens at the end of every season is we'll write it.

And then it, you know, beginning of season three, I think my first day in the writers room, I said, well, he needs to get caught. And so, you know, I think we're writing towards that. You know, I don't see how this can keep going. And then we did that. And speaking of Larry Davis, I saw Larry and he was like, watch Barry, that's it.

Right? I said, no, we have a whole new season. And he went, why? I go, well, I think there's more story to tell. And he's like, but it's done. This is cause he ended Seinfeld with a ball and jail. Yeah, right, right. He's like, hey, done.

Yeah. And so exactly. I didn't think about that. That's true. Jail means it's over. Jail, oh, it's done. It's like Monopoly. But he said, but he said, but he was, yeah, he was just, you know, we, so we have that.

And so you start every writing session for season four. And this one was during the pandemic, like the pandemic happened, we were two weeks away from starting to shoot season three, the pandemic happened. And when I went to HBO and said, is it okay if we just write season four to have something to do? And then as we were writing season four, we started to go back to season three.

And so I see three and four is kind of one big season. It kind of like we kind of, it all kind of rolls into each other. But, you know, season four, yeah, you start off with him in jail and everybody he loves hates him. And no one ever finds this stuff. I find funny, funny.

This doesn't really think, but the opening of the season is very calling Jean Cousineau. And the first thing he says was, did you trick me? Yeah. Did you trick me? And also, and he's such like a child. Did you trick me? He goes, did you trick me?

And no one has ever laughed at that. But me and Allie Greer, the editor, Frankie Guttman, the other editor, we are crying, laughing at how, he's like Homer Simpson, we say, that he has gotten progressively dumber. He's got progressively dumber each season. And so, yeah, we just, you know,

it's you start with him there and then it just turns into like, well, what would happen? What would you do? You know, and then the character is kind of really dictated. And so you kind of walk through all these steps and you take a lot of, you know, missteps. You go down avenues and it doesn't work. And from working it, it started live for so long

and doing this where it was such an immediate thing. What was so nice about the show is you could create something and feel like good and then walk away from it and then come back six weeks later and go, what the hell were we thinking? This has nothing to do with what the story's about. You know what I mean?

It's more about this, isn't it? You know, and that was so helpful. So we had, you know, two years of being able to kind of percolate these ideas. And then even with that, you're still on set going. Duffy Boudreau, who's the co-writer and my oldest friend, we've been friends since high school. He, yeah, he's, because he's been my friend for so long,

you kind of know how it is where you're like, on set, my show, and so people are very nice. And I feel like I'm a very nice boss, but it is kind of like you hear the, Bill's on set, you know what I mean? It's like, Bill's here. So it's like, you know, it's like Conan's coming up the, Conan's car is here.

Oh, trust me, there is none of that here. I assure you, there is no reverential time. It's more like, oh God, Conan's on set. Put on your listening ear. Get ready to laugh. Put on your pretend happy face. No, but it is that when I show up, it's like, oh, you know, and so it is, everybody's kind of,

and it is nice to have your friend from high school there going like, well, that's dumb. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. Or like, I have, there's a scene in this, there's a little bit in the trailer, so don't mind, but there is a scene this season

where Barry is at his lotus in the first episode where he's kind of at his lowest point and he's in the bathroom and I kind of flip out in the bathroom. That's a great scene. Oh, thank you. And very, very intense the way. Very intense, yeah.

It was hard, it was, you know, your two cameras, I'm directing it, so it's like, okay, we've got two cameras on me, I'm gonna flip out, and then we'll just keep going and I'm gonna hit a wall and we'll just keep going. And I do the first take and I'm feeling, wow, I really brought it, you know? That was really good.

The door opens and Duffy comes in and goes, it's a lot of acting, dude. I go, what? I go, what? I go, well, that's why it's called, you know, you get into like a fight like you did, like with your friend from high school, like, well, that's what I'm doing, man.

He's like, I don't, I mean, look, I'm from Oklahoma, what do I know? But it's just, it was a lot of like, oh, wait, oh, wait, oh, wait, oh, wait, oh, wait. A lot of like, hey, look at me, you know? And he just walked out and so I got mad and I'm like, all right, let's go again. And then, and then I, in the scene, I start hitting myself.

So the action, the action, the action, in the scene, I start hitting myself, so the action, I'm looking at myself in the mirror and they start hitting myself and behind the wall, I hear, there he is. Like, there you go, come on, man. But he doesn't have any, like, you know. There's no reverence.

There's no reverence. There's no anything. He's like, come on, man, what are you doing? You know? And then Gavin Kleintop, our first A.D. and Iida Rogers, our producer, they got to that place too. And that's infinitely, it's so helpful. And our editors are like that, where I go,

hey, you're not gonna believe this scene we did. And they look at it and they go, that's pretty corny pill, you know? And you need that, you need somebody to say, I just, this doesn't feel like the show, man. I don't know what this is. This reminds me of one of the times that I think it was the first time

Gary Shandling came on my late night show. We'd been on for a couple of years and we'd gotten through the rough spot and things were really starting to gel. And then I heard Gary was gonna come on, which was just a huge thrill, never had met him in person. And he came on the show and was fantastic. And then afterwards he came into my dressing room

and sort of shut the door like he just wanted to talk to me and see how I was doing. And he said to me, well, how's the staff? How are you guys, you know, you feel good about? And I said, yeah, I do. I really have excellent people. And he said, do you feel like you have too many like yes men or something?

And I said, Gary, I would kill for just one yes man. And he was laughing at that, but it was true. That's the kind of family I grew up in. There's not a lot of, I mean, people just sort of make jokes. And I know that we all love each other, but we make a lot of jokes. And so there's not a lot of, hey, I just have to tell you,

hey, your work really inspires me. That's not the environment I would be comfortable in. Just thinking about it, you're laughing. What if I said that to you? I was like, Conan, you really inspire me. Yeah, yeah. So good. I would say how much money did you get paid?

Yeah. Where's the camera? What's the joke? You really inspire me to do the opposite. To nap, you inspire you to nap. Yeah, that's what, it's also the best thing that I've learned over the years, when you're writing it and shooting it

and then editing it, it just keeps changing each time. And then what I always do, and it drives everybody nuts, but it's true as I'll sit down and say, okay, you just saw the latest episode of Barry, and you go to a bar and you're sitting with your friend and your friend goes, oh, you just watched the latest episode of Barry?

Yes. And they go, what's it about? What do you say? You know what I mean? And it's like, well, it's about a guy. And like that order and that of the information is how we should probably lay the story out. And it'll be interesting as they'll tell the story

and it's going smoothly. And then you'll go, that's great, but you've never once mentioned Fuchs. So we got to go back and make it so he's, you can't talk about it without mentioning him. You'll talk about the whole thing. You're like, that's great, but you never once mentioned Barry,

which happens season two. We had a whole episode that I wasn't in. And Alec Berg and I went, you're not in the show. It's my favorite episode. Yeah, it's my favorite episode. He goes, you're in two scenes. That's the only one I've seen. Oh yeah.

That's the Emmy winner. I thought, yeah. I thought Henry was Barry. I'm Barry? People are always like, what's it like working with Henry Winkler? And it really is all about the cake that he brings to set.

He just brings bunk cake. I'm like, Henry, you're losing your mind in this scene and you're on the verge of, and he's like, and then after that, can I give the crew the bunk cake? Like Robert Wisdom is going to scream at you and make you cry. And he's like, right, right. Well, I have the coffee and the bunk cake.

Right over, and he has a story about everything. Right over in this corner, you know, Gene Chalot attacked me. Or whatever it is, he wasn't attacked. He was one of the first celebrities I saw when I came out to LA with Greg Daniels in 1985. We went to something and one of the first celebrities, not the, but one of the first celebrities.

And you have to remember, you guys are too young, but happy days in the seventies was the biggest thing in the world. And the Fonz was the biggest part of happy days. And, you know, in my school, in my English class, there was a big poster of the Fonz on the wall. And the teacher had put it up just to like try and pacify us.

He was such a big thing. So I get to LA. This'll calm them down. This'll calm them down. How do we calm these children down? Here's a picture of Abraham Lincoln. Here's one of the three Stooges. Oh no!

The Fonz. Cool. Cool. Cool. Look at them, sir. Look at them. We went to some event and I couldn't believe it, but it was everyone was going to their cars

and like this big, almost like a station wagon pulled up that the valets brought up a station wagon and it was raining really hard. And one of the windows had been left open. And Henry Winkler came out to claim the car and his wife was getting in the car and he opened up the back seat and he took like this big rag and started wiping the water off the back seat.

And I thought, what's the Fonz doing? He's some schlub, wiping water off the back seat of a station wagon. Yeah. What happened? He jumped in the car, he quickly went, eight, and then they got in the car. It is him.

Now he's the sweetest guy on the planet. Very sweet. Very nice guy. And so he's the guy that you can also, when I was on set be kind of overwhelmed or whatever, he would always be like, I just want you to know you're doing a wonderful job. And he would walk away and I was like, that's sweet.

My son and I are such Barry fanatics that we last year decided we need to go back and rewatch them all. This was, we did that before the last season. So we went back and watched all of them. Again, what struck me was how there's an arc to the tone of the show. It's very organic, it's a compliment,

but if you watch the first Barry, second Barry, third Barry, it's much lighter. It's almost when you start down this path, and I was loving it, the tone starts to gradually change, but it's subtle and now if you look at where we are now, you can't believe the arc. You can't believe where you started,

which to me is a real achievement. When you're writing it, you kind of start with this kind of idea that is kind of on the face of it could be a very kind of glib idea. And then when you try to do it realistically, you kind of move on and then it's finding it and you go, oh, this is like,

this is the tone of the show. And then I think there was just some touchstones. I mean, one in season one was when Barry is in the car with his friend, Chris, and he has a choice to like kill him or not. And he kills him and there's no joke after that. And I remember being in the edit and going, Alec Berg directed that episode

and we were going, the next scene is like a comedy scene. What do we do to, let's just put it in there and see what happens. And it didn't hurt anything. And it was like, oh, that's interesting. We can do that. So it was a bit like having some sort of machine that you went,

well, we're still on a float, we're on a boat and we're trying all these things and we haven't sunk yet. So let's try that. We can go in that direction. But a thing I always thought of as we were moving forward was the movie Rosemary's Baby. If you watch that movie, it starts off very purposely like a Doris Day movie.

It starts off, there's nothing overtly creepy about it. It's like a very nice couple buying a place, an apartment at the Dakota and it kind of moves us forward. And then as it's happening, the tone starts to slowly shift in a way. And so that's always stuck with me in that to what you're talking about. But then I don't know about you,

you've experienced this too when you're writing something, you're kind of like, it's how you meet people too. It's like, we're writing a character and you're meeting all these characters and it's how you meet somebody is kind of superficial and you have your initial take on them or impression of them. And then as you hang out with them,

you start to get to know them better and they've just become slowly and increasingly more complicated. And it's just trusting that. And then also I think the other thing I'll say is when you're dealing with murder, it was very hard for me to be funny about it. It could be strange,

but it was hard for me to have someone get, the Janice Moss character get killed and then kind of forget about it. And I was like, no, no, no, when she dies, it's for the whole show. Like you can never forget about her every episode she's mentioned, because I think that's what happens

when someone loses somebody. And so you would be in the writer's room and everybody's going, what was the company? And it was like, no, no, no, but we got to hold on to that. We have to hold on to that and just trust that it'll work. But also, is it a comedy? Why does it have to be a comedy?

Yeah, that was in their room. That's true. Yeah, I get, that's funny you say that cause I just did it, but I do, I just, I've been doing a ton of press. So I'm a little tired, but. So why was the last piece of press you did? Literally, it was the last thing you wanted.

No, no, I have more press. No, I have more press after this. I don't know. I've done just about every shitty thing you can think of. I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel. They reintroduced me to shows that were canceled. I went, I went to. I just did Regis.

I just did Regis. I just went to Bonnie Hunt's house. I just said, Bonnie, let me tell you about Barry. And then she said, I don't have a show. And I was like, listen, Katie Couric, she doesn't want to hear all these people. They don't know, they don't know me. And I said, why didn't you get the episode?

I saw you on Hannity. I was on Hannity. I was like, look, look at me when you talk to somebody. When you talk to a man, you look at him. No, but it is a thing you get a lot of, which is a comedy or not. And it's like, we're just telling a story. It's so funny because this season of Barry starts off

in this very dark place. I'm not giving anything away, but at one point, Noho Hank is with his partner and they have a cut to him. And he's wearing this hat and these glasses. And I lost it. It's such a funny and I rose. And so to me, this idea that things can be incredibly dark,

but then you can, and to me, it makes the funny much funnier. Yeah, also, what we learned was that as long as it stayed within that character, where you would say, well, Noho Hank, this is what he would wear in Santa Fe. Yes, yeah. This is what he would want to wear. That's what he's wearing,

which we always thought was very funny. So it's always like, when it comes out of honesty, it kind of works. And the things that wouldn't work was when I would hand of God, comedy nerd, try to come in and create something that wasn't coming organically out of a situation or the characters.

And that was usually the stuff we would lose quickly. I've built a career on forcing it. And I have to tell you, I'm a big believer. I think you're missing out. Conan O'Brien's new podcast, Conan O'Brien. Why'd your mind go there? A new podcast. Yes, yes, yes.

You're right. Why am I talking like Jim Signorelli? There's a reference. Yeah, there's a reference. Jim Signorelli did all the films that I said back in the day. And what I remembered is that he wore his watch so that the face of the watch was on the wrist side.

Doctor style. Yeah, and the band was really loose. And I remember thinking, I guess that's the way you're supposed to wear a watch. That's the way a director wears a watch. I don't think I had a watch then. Yeah, yeah. If I did, it was a swatch.

And he shot, I remember he goes, I hear you're a film fan, because I was a DP on Superfly. And he was. Well, I'm glad. I mean, I have a pact, which is anytime someone brings up Jim Signorelli, I have to wrap it up.

Oh, yeah. The Signorelli lights on. Yeah, that's when Obama was here and he was like, Jim Signorelli. Was the inspiration for. I remember the time I went down to Pink's Hot Dog. That was a bit that mean. That is still my favorite thing that Fred and I would do

is yeah, Obama at the base of the Capitol Records building, just talking about his time in Los Angeles. He's like, I went down to Pink's Hot Dog. We're a writer from Grace Under Fire said, Mr. President, what are we gonna do about this WGA contract? I was like, I went down to Venice Beach. We're in the sixties.

A band taught us that if we work hard, we can break on through to the other side. Why isn't it that the more specific impression is the better? It was. And then one thing was that he got to run background. I went down to the set of Two Broke Girls. They let me run background, which is.

Fred did this and I fell and he's like. It's when people, you see the people in the background talking, now they're not allowed to speak. So you gotta tell them, hey, you go in there. Now you come out. Now you're drinking coffee. You two are married. Now you go in.

Now you can't talk at the same time. I'm gonna bring it back to Dana, which is he does an impression of Obama pitching to Netflix. It was Obama pitching and all of his ideas are things they already have. So it's just as I was like, well, I'm thinking of a show or a bunch of people vying

for the, they're vying for the throne of a, and different kingdoms and stuff like that. And they're trying and it's sort of like they're all trying to get the throne and different families and there's rivalries and there's battles and a lot of sex. And they just come off and they go, Mr. President, it sounds a lot like, and he's in the meeting with his, with Mrs. Obama.

And Mr. Obama, that sounds a lot like Game of Thrones. Well, fuck me. Meesh, what do you got? And that was my favorite part. Fuck me. Meesh, what do you got? Meesh, what do you got? Meesh, what do you got? Have you heard him do his thing?

I guess he did where he and I think it was Jan Hooks because at the table read SNL, Laura Michaels has to read all the stage directions. Yes, all the stage directions, yeah. And then they wrote a sketch that was called Mr. Poopy and it was all stage direction and they wrote it solely. So, here Laura and be like, and Mr. Poopy walks into the thing.

Mr. Poopy can't fucking think. And then Mr. Poopy comes out. Mr. Poopy then walks in, he sees, he sees, so and so. He walks out, he sees the mailman. The mailman wants and says, hello, he gets in the car. Mr. Poopy now is in the car and he says. They just were up late going out. I just want to hear Lauren have to read through all this.

Mr. Poopy, say it 700 times. Yeah, he said Mr. Poopy like 100 times. God, I would have been in there for that. And I don't think I was, I was not there. I would remember that. Mr. Poopy did, Mr. Poopy did five. He would always, that was the worst because Lauren, when he would kind of mumble

and then if you weren't paying attention, you would just hear, and he'd say, involve me, say good bye, bye, bye. And walks Bill and you're like, oh Jesus. And the read through has been like two hours long. Yeah, and you're like, what? Oh, it's me. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, so.

I remember the thing that made my soul die was if I'd written a sketch that all turned on one reveal, you've developed like a, you've made a 600 mile long domino string and you've hit in the first three fall, but the fourth doesn't. And you know that this is gonna last for eight more minutes and there's not gonna be one single laugh.

It's the worst. I really wish that there was a time where you could just in those moments just say, can we not do this? Yeah, forget it, forget it. Moving on, moving on. Right, kill it. Kill it, kill it.

Cause it's just like, we had stuff like that happen all the time where it was just me and Will Forte. I remember we wrote my first table read ever. We wrote a sketch called Emmy attire. And it was me going, it was him. I'm trying to remember what it was. It was him in biking attire.

And then I'm in the other room and I go, hey, are you ready to go to the Emmys? He goes, sure I am. And I go, what are you wearing? He's like, I'm wearing biking attire. And what do you mean? You know, the helmet, the shorts, the fingerless gloves, biking attire.

And I go, go change. And he goes, why? And then I come out and biking attire. I go, because I'm wearing biking attire to the Emmys. I like that. And he goes, what? Yeah. And then Jason Sudeikis came in and biking attire

and we were like, oh, this is very nice. Are you going to the Emmys? You know, and he's like, you know, I thought you guys said biking attire. I thought you said biking attire. And it was this whole thing. And at the end of the sketch was, it was like this voice came in and goes,

what you've just witnessed happened four years ago in my mind. And then a thing that's up from the desk of Jimmy Carter. And it goes, hope you enjoyed it. And it was my first table read and I just remember the look on Tina Faye's face was like, what the fuck was that? And I just was like, okay, all right.

I just, well, I'm glad I could bring you here to bring back those lovely memories. Oh my God. You know what? I'm just delighted to know you and to be friends with you. And you bring me so much happiness. And Barry, as I said, I watched the first episode and a little bit of the second one.

And then I made myself stop because I'm watching these with my son and it's really brilliant. Oh, thanks, man. I'm really proud of you. Oh, thank you, man. That means a lot. Thank you, Conan. That means a lot.

Really does. That's crazy. No, I'm super proud of you. Sadly, this must come to an end. We must stop because you're a busy man. And just, I cannot thank you enough for doing this. I can't. Thanks, Conan.

Thank you, guys. This is always a pleasure to coming here. Thank you very much. Thank you for reading those kind words just as we wrote them. I love you, Conan. Conan O'Brien is loved. That should be the name of this podcast.

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. OK, well, take a moment here because congratulations. And the felicitations are in order. Today is Matthew B. Gorley's birthday. I know B is not your middle age. Nor is today my birthday. I thought you said today is your birthday.

I just said this episode was coming out on the 22nd. My birthday is the 23rd. Oh, well, what the hell, man? Right before we started, didn't you say this is coming out? You asked me when this is coming out, and I said on the 22nd, and then you go, that's my birthday. Weak. Oh, come on.

But that's what Conan's birthday was on the 18th, and we recorded for the 17th. So it's like the same thing. It's not like we can't talk about your birthday. I didn't stop the whole momentum and the magic to point out a small accounting error. It is more or less your birthday. But now I started off with this feeling of generosity

and everything, and now I don't have it anymore. Wait, I'm just curious. No, it's coming out the 22nd. My birthday is the 23rd. All right, well, who's going to announce that to America on the 23rd? You going on the Price is Right? What are you doing?

That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm going on the Price is Right for my birthday. OK. Hey, have you been on the Price is Right? No, but I have been on more game shows than I'm a care to admit. Is that true? Yeah.

When those people that just went from game show to game show? When I was younger, yeah. When I was younger. Yeah. Well, I'm turning 50. I mean, come on. This is your 50th birthday tomorrow.

Can we just say it's today? Sure. Also, people don't listen to podcasts necessarily on the day. Look at this guy telling me how podcasts. Well, maybe if someone should, they don't necessarily listen the day that they're put on air. That's, well, you lost it.

It's OK. You tried. No, no, no. They don't. You know what I mean? Yeah. This drops. But then someone might be checking it out tomorrow.

And guess what? If it's the 23rd, then happy birthday, Matt Gorley. Thanks, boss. And it's the big 5-0, eh? Yeah. Ah, nothing. Yeah. That ain't nothing.

I don't know. What are you talking about? I don't know. I feel it. You know? 50 is, I mean, with all the advances in science and everything, 50 is the new 49, 48. You know?

You can't worry about it. I know that you're. First of all, you're a very youthful chap. Well, thanks, but. You come across as very young. You were getting kind of upset when we'd mention your 60th birthday. Yeah.

So you tell me. That's because I'm upset now that you brought it up again. I'm trying to get it out on Wikipedia that I'm 51 or 49. OK. I'm also trying to get some other stuff out there, too. What? That I was in porno for a while. In porno.

In porno. Porno. Yeah. No, people who do porno don't say I'm in porno. This was a long time ago when people said in porno. No, I think porno was in you. No, it was 1981. Oh, that's a good porno time.

Yeah, I was going to say that's my favorite. Yeah, and back then we called it in porno. Did you? Yeah. Sexy. Yeah, someone would say, hey, you, what's your score? And I'd say, I'm in porno. That's the game.

That's how people talk about it. Wait, wait, what were some of your movies? Oh, you don't want to know. I do want to know. OK. Look out on Zip. Oh! That doesn't feel like look out because here comes

something sexually formidable. It feels like look out, you're in danger. Look out on Zip was one of my best selling movies. Yeah. So yeah, I'm trying to get that on the internet. What was the plot? What's that? What was the plot?

Oh, there's this guy and he goes to get his zipper fixed. He wears these really tight corduroy pants. And this guy's packing, let me tell you. Is there any sex in it at all? I wouldn't call it sex. What would you call it? But there is an extended segment where the just the penis just keeps coming out and out and out.

Come on. It's like a magician would pull scarves out of their mouth. Well, that's it. It's a scene where he's wandering the earth trying to find a way to make a living. And then he teams up with a magician at one point. And the guy's pulling out and pulling and pulling and pulling and it just keeps going.

And it's called Look Out on Zip. Look Out on Zip. Well, look for it. And then there's a little, you know the way sometimes there's a title underneath, a little. It's Thwabba da Habba da Hubba da Habba da Hubba da. Thwabba da Habba da Hubba da Dubba da. Oh, twice or is it just the one Thwabba da?

Depends on which country it's released. I've seen ones that were, you know, I saw a copy that was being sold in the Canary Islands. It's Thwabba da Wabba da Habba da Habba da. Hubba da Habba da Dibba da Dabba. But it depends on where you get it. But all of this is my way of saying happy 50th birthday, Matt Gorley.

And you know what? You should feel grateful. You have a beautiful wife. You have a lovely daughter. And a gorgeous home. I mean, and you get to work with Sona and Conan. And that's a pretty rare. Yeah, I get to work with Sona.

Yay. Conan. Oh, I had Sona. And Conan. And Conan. Too much, buddy. The three together that make that work. Two pals.

Two pals. And another guy. I'm gonna go sit on that two-legged stool and see how that goes. Is that another one of your in-pornos? Yep. Well, that was one-legged stool. That's the other one I made, which didn't do as well.

People were disappointed in the ending. One-legged upside down stool. Yeah, where I'm just sold as a stool. And then I'm just just a long sequence of me erect. And people were having coffee using my back as a table. And I'm in a French cafe. And they're on really tall stools because that's. Guys, you're like packing, yeah.

Yeah, this is all true. Oh, my God. You know, maybe this is a great birthday present for you. No, it's not. Yes, you can gather the wife and daughter around the radio that plays podcasts. No. And you can listen to this wonderful memory.

I'm gonna salvage this by drinking out of Javier Bardem's cold coffee cup. No, there you go. Now that's a birthday I can savor. Yes. Very nice. Well, happy birthday seriously. Happy birthday, girl.

Thanks, you guys. Thanks. We all did. Blake, would it kill you to lean into the mic and say happy birthday? Well, he told me it was the 22nd. I know, but so what? We let that go.

You know what? You're still nursing that? Happy birthday. It seems like there are qualifications to that. Yeah. Don't accept your happy birthday. All right. Well, as long as we ended in bitterness.

Let's get out of here. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Nick Leow, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes.

Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts,

and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.