Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Bowen Yang

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

Comedian Bowen Yang feels dissociative about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Bowen sits down with Conan to discuss SNL-induced dread, putting together the iconic Iceberg skit, touchy interview subjects, and why it’s impossible to write a sketch in advance. Later, Matt Gourley struggles to announce the new season of Sona’s web series Sona Fixes Your Life.  Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Bowen Yang and I feel dissociative about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Does that mean you feel like you've left your body in some way? Yeah. And this is something that like we're going through in therapy, but like... You're gonna have a breakthrough today. Here? Yes. I can't wait.

It's gonna happen. And then you're gonna owe me $600. Yeah. Oh, that's cheaper than my therapist. That's perfect. Well, I didn't say it was gonna be a very good breakthrough. You're gonna realize you're intolerant to oat milk. Oh, great.

And then it's not gonna be anything that's gonna help you in your life. A breakthrough? There's a breakthrough. I don't think there's any qualitative thing about a breakthrough. I'm just happy to have one. Here we go. Seven, six, too long a countdown. One.

No, that's too short. 14, 14, too long. Here we go. Hey, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I started today's podcast. You're not gonna hear this part, but I was trying. I was doing a countdown. Yeah.

I was gonna... Counting myself down, which I thought was very professional. And then I realized I chose too high a number to count down from. I just randomly went to 15. Yeah. I think you should keep that in. Yeah, I'll leave that in so people know what you're talking about. It was just all over the map.

And I thought... And it was my attempt to be professional. 15. Nope, that's no good. But... And then I went too early. I went to, I think, to one, which don't go to one. Three is the right way to start.

Don't you think? Three. Yeah. Two. That's the right way. Next time I do this, I'm just new to all of it. I'm gonna start at three. I will not...

You're three years in. You're not new to this anymore. You're not new anymore. You keep acting like, oh, podcasts, what's that? It's like you've been doing it for three years. Well, you know I have short-term memory loss. I have severe... I just keep...

Wow! Wow! A podcast! Unless someone messes up, then it's something you bring up like seven years later. I have an amazing memory for someone else's failure. I can remember if someone else slightly screwed up 57 years ago, I can smell that moment, taste that moment, feel that moment. I can describe everything in the room.

That's what I'm good at. Right, Sona? Yes. Yes. You bring up things I forgot to do like 12 years ago. It's small things too. It's like, oh, remember I emailed you and you didn't respond to me to let me know you got the email?

Right. Remember the time that I needed that medication to stay alive and you didn't get it from me? And you died. You were out at a rave and you drank the blue stuff that was in the glow stick and you and your friends threw up on top of each other and both got radioactive. What? Yep. I remember that.

That's a true story. I'm not. Okay. Well, as you can tell, I'm joined by my crack team. You guys are a crack team. You really are. That's right. Yeah.

You're just so on top of it all the time. I'm going to disagree. I think Matt is, I'm not, so half of your team is a crack team. Matt? I think you are. You know what? I'm going to give you a compliment, Matt, and hang on to this because you're never getting another one of these again.

You actually do stuff. You actually, you actually, you produce this podcast, you do a lovely job. You go through it. You make sure that, you know, it all lines up and it's technically proficient. That's a little I know about what you do is that I just said it all lines up. Far off. But Sona and I are just chimps that have been put into a space capsule that just hit each other and throw pancake batter at each other.

And then, you know, you're in mission control, making us, you know, get up into the atmosphere and back safely. That's what you do. Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah. All right, golly. Thanks. Are you putting us on the same level?

You do all the interviews and I really don't do much. I mean, this is a big scam that I've got going on. You're the heart. Oh, I know. I know. What I did was I tricked Sona into complimenting me. So she just said, Conan, you're the one that does all the interviews. And then you were left out in the cold, Sona.

So that was a beautiful thing that I just did. Sona's the heart, I'm the brains, you're the obstacle we have to get over. That's true. To make this go out. That's true. I'm the... Yeah, that's right. You're a hindrance.

I suppose. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You're... I'm going to put it this way. Sona is the Christmas spirit and Matt is Bruce Willis and I am Hans Gruber. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

You're the hippie-kye, motherfucker. Yeah. Tell me about these cowboys, you know, whatever I don't do. Wow. Was that your German accent? I know. Well, work on it. I didn't give it any thought and I think I also, at the same time, something burst

in my brain. So I can't be... He didn't even have a German accent, though. Diddy Allen Rickman was just speaking in his British accent, wasn't he? No, he was not British. He had a little bit of one. He had a bit of a German accent. Well...

It was sort of one of those... It's like he came from the bad guy region of Central Eastern... in Europe. Do you know what I mean? He's 60s Nazi. Yeah, it was one of those very vague, there's like a country that's near Lithuania, but it also borders Belgium,

and that's where all bad guys are from. Ah, welcome, Mr. Bond. So nice to have you. I do hope you're comfortable, Mr. Bond. And they all come from that one little country, all of them. Every single fucking one comes from that country. That brings up another thing I wanna talk about. I love how bad guys are so worried

about James Bond's comfort. Have you noticed that? They're gentle, mate, it's nice, yeah. But in the 60s Bond movies, he's basically been foiling their plans for most of the movie, and then finally they end up in his lair, and all they do is say,

I trust you're comfortable, Mr. Bond. You know, Bond will wake up and he's wearing silk pajamas, in a lovely room, and someone comes in and says you're to join, you know, Dr. Bad Guy. You're to join Dr. Bad Guy for a lovely meal. They should just kill him right away. Yeah, that's been established.

That's been long established that they should do that, but I love that they, my favorite thing is just how concerned they are. Ah, Mr. Bond, I do trust you slept well. Mr. Bond, is this wine to your liking? And they've got the pit with the alligators and the sharks ready to go, and they know they're gonna kill him soon,

but it's all about his comfort. Oh, trust, oh, oh, you, the mattress was a little hard, was it? Oh, Mr. Bond, our apologies. Do they make him take a survey for his comfort? Mr. Bond, before we kill you, just could you fill this out, please? How was the massage?

Was the massage okay? Typically, I like shiatsu. Oh, fuck it, Mr. Bond, we didn't know. We thought soft tissue. I like a shiatsu massage and a shi-li mattress for a sleep number. We were going to contact you ahead of time, Mr. Bond, but then we thought that would give away

the whole capturing you thing. So sorry, Mr. Bond, but yes, we've got it now, shi-li and shiatsu. Is that what you said in your strange Scottish accent? No, shi-li. Shi-li. S-H-E-E, it's a very rare type of mattress. Okay, shi-li, God, it's Mr. Bond.

I just do hope you're comfortable. Now, we have a tank over here filled with eels that are going to shred you, but they do hope you're comfortable. Certainly, C-H-E-R. Did you say certainly or certainly? I most certainly did not. You see, these are good times.

Look at us, look at us. We're just a bunch of normal joes having a good time. If he didn't know any better, you'd say we were chill chums. Hey. I wish I hadn't brought that up. All right, we should start today's episode. My guest today, very excited about this gentleman

and that he is visiting. My guest today is a cast member on Saturday Night Live and stars in the Comedy Central series, Aquafina is Nora from Queens. He also co-hosts the popular podcast, Las Culturistas. Bo and Yang, welcome. I came up to you recently.

It was at the Emmys. I don't know why I'm pussy-footing around where it was, but I came up to you and I was very sick of fantic, is that the right word? I was just very reverent, basically. Well, that was very nice. You were very nice to me and said some nice things and it has gotten back to me that you've...

Oh, I cried. I cried about you. Yeah. Did you listen to that? Were you just told that Bo and Yang cried about you? Yes, I heard that you cried when we ended our show and my problem is, and you can be my therapist. It wasn't performative either.

It was really just me being so emotional over just that last sort of speech you gave. Anyway, sorry, go ahead. Well, no, what was nice is I hear something like that and I step outside my body because as you know, you get in this business and we'll talk about this. There's this whole journey to getting to do it and then you're doing it and you're in it

and then suddenly you're meeting people and you're performing with them. Sometimes someone that you admire says something nice about you and I just don't... I have a hard time processing it, you know? And so I like to look at it all from a distance. Like, so I didn't rush and say,

I've got to listen to Bo and Yang cry about me because I wouldn't know how to process it, you know? That would feel very vain too, if you didn't. Oh, well, but I'm very vain. No, so am I. I look at myself nude and I have a nine-way angled mirror that shows me. You're in a nonagonal mirror, right?

Jesus. Very yes, I could have gone for octagonal but I went for nonagonal and it really shows you everything and I'm on a pedestal that slowly turns and I stand on that pedestal nude maybe four or five times a day. These are tall mirrors or the mirrors are suspended. They are suspended.

Yeah, they're suspended and they're adjustable height. So I can zero in on different areas. You know, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about that I kind of feel like we have in common is that my parents were the first generation that they weren't screwing around. They were not, they worked their asses off and they got full scholarships to good schools

and both became professionals. And so there was this real respect for education and you've got to work hard. And then I picked up on that and I worked really hard. I was a grind. There's no other nicer term for it. I was just a joyless grind about school work and got to go to a good college

and then immediately fell into comedy and has spent the rest of my life dedicated to looking like an ass as much as possible. And I was interested to talk to you because more than anyone I can think of has really followed in some ways a similar path. You think so? Wow, that's very good.

Well, because you were, I mean, you're clearly, you know, hyper intelligent and you went to NYU and you study chemistry. Yeah, but that was just me getting, that was just the stepping stone to going to med school which was the ultimate goal. Right, right. But that was, but the chemistry wasn't

because I had an affinity. Well, I actually, I mean. Oh, I'm not saying you have to have it. I'm saying there was some part of you that thought I've got to achieve and perform at this acceptable, in this acceptable venue, right? But you don't think that's a lot of comedy people, especially people who.

More and more, but I think what's fascinating to me is that comedy used to be, and show business in general, was not the domain of respectable people, you know? And then that changed, but you know what I mean? Something happened at some point where comedy became kind of, I hope I get to get into Brown so I can go into comedy. Right, well.

What the hell happened? I feel like you, again, not to be too reverential like I was before. Well, I think you should. If you have a dial on reverence, could you turn it up actually? Yes. Oh my God.

Because I feel like it's been on mute. Just while we've been recording? Yeah, I feel like I'm not getting enough. Okay, so I was just gonna say that, I feel like you guys probably, I'm saying you guys as in like your generation of writers who all like bounced between, not all of you bounced between like,

Seinfeld and SNL and The Simpsons, but I feel like you guys set up that prestige maybe. And then it became, and now I think you're seeing whatever micro generations later that like people are sort of filtering through those and being like, see, there is this like path to like respectability and comedy,

which I don't think, which I think like it wasn't quite as established back when you were probably out of college. Yeah, I remember almost apologizing to my parents that I was gonna give comedy a try. Uh-huh. And getting remarks, and this is back in ancient history,

but it was 1985, kind of getting some attitude from people about really. So you went to Harvard and this is what you're going to do that your parents must be so upset. And I thought, well, what is it? It's not hurting anybody. When did you realize? It's not like I became a male prostitute,

which I did for in 88 for a year. That's beautiful. Yeah. Quite lucrative, by the way. I bet. I'm not even whatever. So, but when did, was there a point that you realized that it was,

that you were okay? I mean, was it? It took me a little- You did SNL first then Simpsons and then- Yeah, I did. Well, SNL went, my writing partner, Greg Daniels and I, bummed around for a bit. We worked out in LA and we lost our jobs went away

and then we worked kooky odd jobs. Greg was an SAT tutor. And I don't know why, but I went to work, and I've mentioned this before, but I went to work at Wilson's house of Swade and Leather. I don't know why, but that was a low point. That was a low point where I would visualize my degree from this prestigious college

while I was at Wilson's house of Swade and Leather and I'm 23. And I'm thinking, this is gonna be okay, right? This is gonna be all right. But then we got SNL. Then I did the Simpsons and then the whole craziness of late night. But it took a long time for me to think,

oh, I have some facility in this world. I really didn't really start to kick in to SNL, which is when people I kind of idolize would say, point at me and say, hey, that's funny. Hey, do that again. That was funny. And I would, like you just said, I would leave my body a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. Ugh, what is that? I don't know. I feel like- I think it's healthy. Have you gotten better at that? Or I don't know. I worry about constantly being calloused

to the stuff that- I don't think that's gonna happen to you. Okay, wow. No, I really don't. I think that that's a personality type. And so, just today and the times I've met you, you've come across, you have a lot of humility. And I think if you had the gene, the callous gene,

that would have shown up immediately. Wow. You wouldn't even be talking to me right now. It's a nature thing. It's not a nurture. I, okay, if you say so, I just find myself becoming like slightly more monstrous like as time goes on.

Well, you had a lot of insane demands before you did the podcast. We had to buy you a fur coat. Yes. Floor length fur coat. Floor length mink. Who even does that anymore? Nobody.

And you said it had to have a hood that came from different mink. Like, what is this? Like, I don't know, the 60s? Who wears mink anymore? Well, you wanted it. I know. You wanted those massive shoes made of Bakelite?

Who gets shoes made of Bakelite? Yeah. This is all very on trend, by the way. I hope you realize that these things that you're rattling off are actually, I think, pretty cool. Like some circle. Is it really?

I have no idea. I don't know. I've never known what was cool. I've never been. Whenever I stumble into something that's cool, it's a complete accident. Well, oh, I was just reading this article today about how the fact that everybody everywhere is drinking,

and this might not apply to everybody, but how espresso martinis have really sort of proliferated in the last year. Oh, I didn't know that. Like, every place, like from a dive bar to like a high-end place, like every place will serve an espresso martini in some form where people will want one.

And so that is sort of symbolic of this thing that's going on where there is no, there's this collapse of irony that like, if something is cool to everybody, then like is nothing cool anymore? I hate that like we're talking about. No, this is where, but anyway. So wait, so your point being that if everybody's

suddenly drinking an espresso martini. Yeah, like of every subculture, if like, you know, like Wall Street guys are drinking it, and then like, you know, your crust punks are drinking it, and like the outer boroughs, like what does that mean about where culture is right now? We don't have to really get into it, but I just, I find it interesting that like,

but I've always been of the mind that like, you should just like everything. I don't know, which probably is. Like everything. I tend to go into something. I can't go with you on like everything. Not everything, but like, I, it's, I'll like something until I find something

extremely off-putting. Right. I will try to, not even keep an open mind. So you tried racism for a while. And then it was off-putting. And then I thought, no, this is too mean. Yeah, but you gave it three, you gave it three years, and you really went for it.

Yeah. And then you were like, you know what? I'm losing friends. I'm really losing friends over the whole time. I'm losing friends. I feel like, what does it, they say like, it takes like eight years for you to be like an expert at something, or 10,000 hours, whatever,

but like, anyway, yeah, did it for three, and was like, no, I can't do it. But no, anyway. Yeah, I'm just one of the listeners to know that we're sitting here, Bowen's wearing a full-on, but he demanded mink long coat with a different textured hood and bakelite shoes, and talking about his seven-year attempt to really be good at racism.

And I've got a Viking tattoo on my hand, which is a dog whistle for something else. You know, I was so appreciative that you came in today because it is Tuesday, and as a former, as an alumnus of SNL, I know that Tuesday was the day that filled me with dread, because Tuesday is the day, you guys have a show this Saturday, Tuesday is the day that I had an apartment in Brooklyn,

and I would take the train in, and my heart was in my stomach. I was so nervous, and you ride in, and I'm so nervous because this is the day that doesn't end. Tuesday bleeds, and it's something that started at SNL, I think in 1975 or 76, for some weird reason. Cocaine. Probably cocaine. Somebody thought it was a good idea for the writers

to stay up all night, literally through the night, writing sketches into Wednesday, all until read through, which starts at like noon or one. Oh, see, now it starts at like 4.30, which is even worse. And so you get out at like 11 p.m. when pics are out, but anyway. Oh my God. I know, it's rough.

Yeah, well, I remember, that's probably Lauren slowly moving the dial, so that it more and more fits his lifestyle. Unless he needs to like go to the opera one night, then we'll move it like earlier, and we'll all know about it. Like Lauren has to go see, you know, company on Broadway or something like that.

Right, right, yeah. Well, Lauren gets out of his coffin at three o'clock in the afternoon. And can I just say it's a beautiful coffin. It's a beautiful coffin. And he arises just without moving any muscles, he just goes completely up and perpendicular to the ground. And then moisturizers are applied,

and a little bit of popcorn is eaten. Yeah, and then he flies, sprouts wings, and flies to Rockfeller Center. And so I think his, over the years, it keeps getting later and later. But God, that night. And I was talking to, I was a couple of years ago, I think I was talking to Howard Stern on his show.

He brought me back to those days, and I was telling him, you know, I've hosted a late night show, I've been through what should be real terror a thousand times over. None of them matched Serenade Live. How nervous and self-hating I would get on a Tuesday night.

The wandering the halls. Yeah. Is my stuff funny enough? Hearing like the laughter from across the walls, and thinking, oh God, like everyone else has it figured out. I mean, that's still, I think you were talking to Dratch about this recently.

Yes, yeah. And like you were both talking about that sensation, that feeling, and I was like, oh God, that hasn't gone away. And like that's kind of the reason why it works. Like that's the reason, that's like the engine that everyone runs on. It might be the special sauce.

Yeah. But it also may not be. It may not be necessary. I don't know. I just know that I, to this day, when I pass Rockfeller Center, I'm filled with lots of awe and wonder and appreciation. I really do appreciate my,

if you add up SNL and late night, I think I did two decades in the building. And I am so appreciative of it. But at the same time, there's a, I'm also reminded of, oh yeah, that feeling, that feeling of real, real at Sarnat Live for that couple of seasons of-

Baird and Dredd. Dredd. Yeah, Dredd. It was real Dredd. And it was mostly confined to Tuesday. For me, anyway. No. Tuesday into Wednesday. Right.

Like all the time at 6A, like didn't like supersede that eventually. Like all the time, like doing late night stuff didn't like- Late night because I was performing, the demons were exercised. Yes. Yes.

Oh my gosh. I spent one year as a writer and it was so, so, so, so difficult, especially because even though I sort of self-identified as a writer, like I think you go in there, like no matter how developed you are, in your point of view as a comedian,

like there's something about SNL where you have to reset and like learn how things work there in order to survive, in order to like be successful. And like there's, there are few people who like probably go there and like are very insistent on their point of view.

And then it works and Lauren's on board, like probably like a Julio Torres or like a Jackhandy or someone like who goes in there and like is already like- Fully formed. Free fab, yeah exactly. Fully formed and yeah, that doesn't need any time to cook.

They're just right there and ready to go. But 99.99% of people I think are so overwhelmed by it and I mean, I certainly was and then, but it's this crucible that everyone has to walk through, which kind of makes it beautiful too. But also, I mean, I can't, yeah. I've very recently started to not be terrified of Lauren because I think Lauren had mentioned to Adie,

like Bowen probably thinks of me as this like peak. I think his words were, I'm just quoting Adie, but Adie was like, I think Lauren thinks that like, you think of him as like a peak that you, like a mountain you have to climb every time you talk to him. And I think, and she was like, I think he wants you to just go up to him and like be his pal.

And I was like, I can do that. But like for the longest time, I think it's like probably something in common with you and I with our upbringings or something where like, I don't know, again, reverence is like so valued that like, I had to for a very long time only see him as this like incomprehensible authority figure.

Right, and I, to be fair, I think he's okay with people feeling that way for a while. Of course. And then he, and he's, you know, look, he's, I've said this to him and I said to him at the Emmys when I saw you guys that, you know, he's responsible for my career and giving me the shot that changed my life.

And so I'm always indebted to him and so appreciative of what he did for me. But at the same time, you know, you get, you get to see when you get more perspective on it all that, oh, I see how he runs things and I, and it works, it works. He's not gonna go out of his way for the new people. He's gonna let them fight it out.

And see, you know, who's got it. But that's part of, I think, and I think, oh, cause you talked about this in, cause they interviewed me for this Washington Post profile before the Kennedy Center owners. And you had a great quote in there where you were talking about how he kind of just lets you, he'll find people and then he'll put them

in this like big cauldron that is SNL. And then he'll, and then he will just make, he will not be too stringent on like what you can or can't do. I think he just lets you like go for it if you wanna go for it. And that's kind of, that's the genius of the show. And that's why it's been around for so long.

And it's been through so many different iterations, but that still kept this thread of like, I just, I let you do whatever you wanna do. And if you find, if you figure it out, then it's fireworks and it's beautiful. Yeah, and I think that's what something that I learned from him and that I tried to pass on all the years that I've had writers

or tried to mentor people is throw them in the deep end of the pool, give them lots of leeway. If it doesn't work out, then it's on them. If it works out, then it's on them in a good way. And I was stunned when I went to SNL when I was I think 24. And immediately upon showing up, they were like, yeah, Steve Martin's in that room.

And I went, you mean Steve Martin, my absolute comedy hero growing up, who in my opinion, redefined the levels of funny that could exist in the universe and reached those heights. He's in that room and you want me to go in? Yeah, go in and tell him your funny ideas. You don't even know me. You just picked me up off the street.

I'm trash and you want me to go in there and uh-huh. And then if you blow it, you blow it. But if you can make him laugh or you can think of something that he's gonna like, you get hoisted on everyone's shoulders. And I thought, okay, this is scary. This is the scariest damn thing I can imagine. But it's all or nothing.

Was there no like scaled up version of that situation when you were at late night? Was there no like when you had to walk into someone's dressing room that you admired so much? I mean, I guess not cause it was your show. No, it was my show. And so I went right from, you know, I was a writer and then got the late night show

and immediately I was going into rooms with legendary people and people that I had grown up watching on TV. And I think, this is something I've been thinking about a lot, the people that you saw when you were growing up and your mind was forming, they will always be gods to you. So for me, it was these people that I had seen like Dick Van Dyke or Mary Tyler Moore,

people on TV shows that were even in reruns when I was a kid, but I was seeing them. And then suddenly overnight I have a show and I'm saying, who's the guest tonight? Well, it's Mary Tyler Moore. Wait, the icon that I watched on TV growing up. Yeah, she's in the dressing room and she's here to do your show.

I have a show. Yeah, you've had it for about a week. You may not have it much longer, but you have a show. What do you mean I have a show? Anyway, Mary Tyler Moore is in there. And then, you know, the band plays and your childhood icon walks out and says, hi Conan, so happy to be on your show.

And I think this is the dream, but it's also the nightmare. And I think that is the thing that I, one of the reasons I've really wanted to talk to you is, you are aware that both exist at the same time. And I think most people right now think, well, Bo and Yang, God, he's so funny. And I love him on SNL and he's this breakout star,

but you are fully aware that it's always both. It's always a joyous dream. And oh my God, many of my buttons are getting pushed. Yeah, well, even just this here is a perfect example. Not that, I mean, as a fan of the podcast, like I think you put everyone at ease, but I feel like I'm coming in. And I told you when I talked to you over the summer

that like we came to New York City when I was 14 or something to look at schools for my sister. And we couldn't, my two big things that I wanted to do. One was to go see Wicked on Broadway. We couldn't afford the tickets. We did not go, but my parents drove me to the George Gershwin Theater so I could stand outside the doors for like 10 minutes

and then leave. Good for them. Good for them. But then the thing that we could do was take the NBC studio tour at 30 Rock. And then we went up to eight or nine, I guess. We sat on nine, sat at the SNL studios. This was over the summer, so everyone was on hiatus.

And then I was like, okay, whatever, SNL. And then what I was most excited for was to go to 6A and go sit in the seats at Conan. And just, I mean, that was, and it's funny to be to fast forward, whatever, like 16 years from that. Now here where I'm like about to go into work at SNL where I work and then sitting with you.

And yeah, I just, this is a dream in the nightmare at the same time. Not that this isn't so pleasant, but this is like, I can't believe, I mean, yeah. If it's a fair analog to say that like, you're the Steve Martin to me. I don't want to do this too long. And I know you wanted me to turn up the reverence dial.

I was, I was kidding and I also wasn't kidding. Yeah, yeah, okay, great, great, perfect, perfect. Please no, Bowen, please no. But I just keep giving me more, more, more. So you've seen me walk on water, right? Basically. Oh, Conan, this is, I mean, I didn't grow up with cable. And so like, it was just me tuning into NBC on Saturdays

and on weeknights. Just, I would, you know, I'd sit through Leno, love him, but then, you know, the main event was you. Yeah. And yeah, I mean like, the reason I got emotional on my podcast when your show ended was because, I'm sure a lot of people have brought this up too, but that encapsulation of like,

your whole career has been about like, the intersection between stupid and smart or silly and smart or whatever. And not that I'm saying that I'm like super intelligent, but I'm like, oh God, like that's, that's the reason I like have the friends I have in comedy. That's the reason why, like those are the things that are the most fun for me to write

when I write at the show. Yeah, it's that magical thing. And you do understand it, you know, when I saw your now famous and billion times viewed iceberg sketch the first time, I was like, oh, this is everything that I like because it is very smart. It's so smart that we're getting the icebergs perspective

and that the iceberg has this attitude of like, I wasn't doing anything. And then, and you know, and it was so well done. I love that the iceberg keeps underselling how many people died saying like, hey, 30 or maybe 50 people, you know. That's a dead address. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's like, no, no, 1500. And then you say like, no one brings up the water. It was the cold water that killed people. And so your attitude is all very human and understandable. But then my favorite thing is that you have a song to plug. Now, I think most comedians would have at that point made the song something about the iceberg. The song has fucking nothing to do

with your story or your raison d'etre, it is this. And when your song had nothing to do with the sketch we had just seen, I like stood up and was like, yes, I like, I love Bo and Yang because that's such a smart move. And to me, that's the encapsulation in my opinion of that thing that's always a quest. You can never achieve it.

It's slippery. You can't really get ahold of it because you'll have it and then it's gone. But oh my God, that was so stupid slash smart at the same time, but so stupid, but so smart. And it just keeps flipping in your head. Well, that quest is so perfect because it was Anna Dresden and I writing that together,

who's one of the head writers. And I mean, it felt too good to be true as we were writing. We were like, this will never make it onto TV because it's making this laugh too much. We were like, this can't pass through all the filters that are in place here. Where the update writers see it and give notes

or Lauren or the producers see it and have feedback. I mean, this is the thing that you talk about in the profile for Lauren is that it's kind of miraculous that he lets you do these things. Yeah, and that I can imagine it read through, you don't have the iceberg on your head. No. And so people are, I'm sure, laughing,

but the prop and then this is the other thing it has to go sketch comedy. There's always a thousand things that can go wrong. If that prop isn't just perfect, it doesn't work. And so also my kudos to whoever came up with that prop because it's just perfect because it's beautiful and it's also betraying no matter what kind of big deal.

Yeah, well, it's also, it's big and it's absurd and you're trying to establish your dignity the whole time and your point of view and you're all while wearing, that's my favorite thing. Anyone whose dignity is compromised immediately, but refuses to accept it. Right, oh my gosh. That's like, yeah, that's like,

I took a character workshop with Drew Drogi, this guy in LA at Groundlings, but he brought up like Jerry Blank is the perfect example of someone who has this delusory idea of themselves, but everything about them betrays that. But I mean, Alex, okay, so I think Alex Bayes, someone told me that Alex Bayes used to be an update writer was talking about how it's interesting

that it's usually the other way around where it's like the character telling, it's Colin or it's one of the anchors telling the character, like, hey, stop that, no, no, stop it, stop it, stop it, but because we watched the Letterman interview with Paris Hilton, like right as she got out of jail, where all Letterman wants to talk about is, I mean, first of all, like people have pointed out

how not cool it was for Letterman to push so hard, but that's how Letterman was with everybody. He was just like the jerk and that's why we love him, but Anna and I watched that interview as we were writing it, just being like, look at how uncomfortable like she is in this moment and like look how Letterman wants to like push for like,

we really like mapped it onto that particular interview, I think. That's what you were working on. Yeah, and just like kind of like, I don't know, like I think the whole, not to like break apart my own sketch too much, but like, I think we were just writing something based on like this media pattern that happens

every now and then. Well, right, cause in that one, Colin, as the sort of faux journalist in the situation, I love that you're like, well, we got to talk about the Titanic and you're like, no, no, no. My publicist said, we're not talking about that. And which brings up a hilarious thing,

which is everyone always shows up with a publicist. I always show up. I've got mine. You have your publicist and by the way, she's been, I think playing a game on her phone the whole time. She's not intervening in any way. She's doing Angry Birds too, like the sequel.

Yeah, they're not even birds anymore. No. They're just heavy people being fired into the air. They've evolved. Yeah. But I love that, you know, I've always had a publicist with me saying, do you want me there?

But when you get on the phone with these people or drop me on the phone and I'll say, what are you gonna do? To do what? And they'd say, excuse me, we're not discussing that. And especially on a podcast, I've always thought what's gonna happen and what is funny. Cause once the podcast starts,

if I start going down some crazy rabbit hole of, hey, you know, Bowen, I have, I actually did some research. And I found out that you say you went to NYU, but there's no record of you. And the shit starts to hit the fan. Does your publicist crash through that glass and stop things? Probably.

She would, Julian would. No, no, she's again, still not listening and still playing Angry Birds too. But my favorite thing, and I think you mentioned this just before we started is when people say, and this is what came up in your Titanic iceberg sketch is, hey, it was agreed we wouldn't talk about this.

Right, right, right. I love, I'm always about to talk to some celebrity on the podcast now. And it happened for 28 years on late night, moments before I went out there. Someone would come up to me and go, hey, don't mention blank, but here's the thing. It was always something that I didn't even know about.

Exactly. So people were always saying like, okay, I'm about to talk to Al Pacino. And someone would come up to me and say, don't mention that he keeps a catcher's mitt in the freezer. And I'll say, what? He keeps a what? He keeps a catcher's mitt in his freezer.

And then that's all you're thinking? Yeah, and I'm like, and I'm, don't mention it. I'm like, why would he keep a, it's not to come up, shut up. And then you get out there and Al Pacino comes on, he goes, oh, it's good to see you. And I'm like, all I can see is him putting a catcher's mitt in the freezer and saying, no one can ever know about this. You know?

And I'm just, it's insane to me. But that always happens that someone did not happen with you. I was gonna ask, okay, really? No, no, no, no, I was not, I was, no one said, you can't mention this, you can't mention that. But so many times I'm told you're not to mention that B Arthur has the largest collection of used dental floss in the world.

She does, don't mention it. She'll flip out and the interview is over. It's not a thing where like a segment producer tells you before, like before the show, I don't know. I don't know how there's- Mostly they're supposed to do that, but there's one and I always give him a shout out occasionally, but there was one guy, Frank Smiley who,

and he really did talk like a guy and he still does. He talks like a guy who's on Broadway. Saying, kid, you got it. He's literally out of the 1920s and he had a knack of, and it wasn't his fault, but the publicist would always mention it to him. Seconds, the band's playing. I'm backstage or I'm at the desk

and I'm about to bring out Elton John and he'd come running up and say, he makes pots on the weekend, but he doesn't use a kiln, don't mention it. And I'd be like, what? And then literally, ladies and gentlemen, Sir Elton John and Elton John would come out and I'm just wondering, why did you even tell me that?

Nobody knows that. That would never come up. Oh, wow. Yeah, so there's- Frank Smiley, I'm sorry, not Frankie. No, Frank Smiley, but I call him Frankie. But I love that people make assumptions. And so the assumption would be-

That you would ask about the thing. Yeah, but also they assume that show business, especially at a certain level, is much more professional than it really is. Oh, no. There's so much running around. Yeah, I mean, it's like that, you were saying like there's a thousand things

that can go wrong in sketch comedy. I feel like there's any kind of presentational thing, a million things could go wrong. And that's kind of why it's fun. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I remember the music when I wrote there to be the change between dress and air, but my sketch would be on early.

And so I remember very clearly running under the bleachers at Cernot Live while that band is playing. And in the commercial break, getting to the cards and going, changing cards and the sketch is coming up. And I'm shouting, no, no, there's no, no, there's no tomahawk anymore, the tomahawk's out. You know, that whole section, that whole section. No, no, this becomes, sir, how dare you?

And then we lose all this. You lose all that really loud music. Yes, you lose all that and your chest is pounding because the band is so loud in 8-H. And you're shouting over them. And you're shouting over the band. And this happened for years at late night too, pretty much every night where we completely

rewrote something just before the audience was loaded in. The cards aren't right. You're on the fly shouting at people over music. But also as a host, I was always smiling because the audience can see me and looking super chill. But what I was saying was, no, that's all wrong. I'll murder you. That has to have like some psychological,

psychic effect on you. I mean, like to like cut through like all of the, not saccharine stuff, but like the stuff that like is meant to like, I don't know, get everybody like amped up. But you have to like, you can, at that point you do have to be professional and say, no, this is not how it's supposed to be.

Right, no, you have to get it right. Yeah. You have to get it right and it has to be right. And that has to be a religion, which is it has to be right. But at the same time, you can't be, you've got to remember that we're all human beings trying the best we can. And that's tricky.

Yeah, that's like the whole, I think that's all of showbiz and a nutshell. That's beautiful. That's what I do is I summarize things that no one else can put into words so succinctly. But I do it just regularly. And yeah, and that's why I'm just made of bright light. I don't even have flesh.

So you're going to go to the building right after you do this podcast and you're going to get to work. What is your, and I don't want to get specific. What's my idea? I don't want to ask your idea or get specific about it. But do you know what you're going to be working on this week or are you also waiting for inspiration?

I'm a little bit of both. I have one idea that I'm kind of, I kind of have a really solid grasp on. And then the rest, I don't know. I think there's one thing that like is sort of, yeah, I think I'm like really running the gamut this week in terms of like something that I've, like a big question mark for one thing.

And then all the way up to like something that I think is like really beaten down. So what do you think is great? I think I love that. I don't know why I didn't write more in advance. And it's the big- No one does it. The big question that started out live is,

cause there's a lot of weeks off. Now you'd think during the weeks off, we'd all crank some paper into the typewriter. Sorry, I'm dating myself here. Oh yeah, you were in the typewriter era. That's so cool. No, we were in the legal pad. Yeah, there were typewriters, but I was in the legal pad.

We wrote everything on legal pads and then dropped them off and they were typed up. And we had to often be called into decipher what our scribblings meant. But no one, I look at, I have boxes filled with legal pads that have sketches in them and lots of doodles and lots of really disturbing little notes on the side. Like why live when death could be so sweet?

And then little notes like don't invest in Microsoft. That's going nowhere. This is beautiful. Yeah, but I actually have found like, recently I found the legal pad that had me saying, I wrote Monorail at the top. Oh my God. Yeah, and then I have all these notes

about music man, music man, and little arrows. And I'm like, okay, I gotta save that. That was a SNL and then you brought it to existence. No, no, no, that was a legal pad. I always worked off legal pads and kind of still do. I like to write that way by hand and then undoodle and come up with things. But, and you know, I always have little notebooks.

But I was stunned getting back to my question, why we didn't sit down and write out fantastic sketches that were silly and evergreen. Meaning they could be on at 1245 and star anybody or just the cast and put them in a file so that when we were, that would have saved me so much anguish and panic. But not only did I not do it, nobody did it.

Nobody did it. And then we were wandering around at quarter to three crying. Oh my God, on Sunday or Saturday or whatever. No, like on the night that we had to stay up all night. On Tuesday, yeah, of course. And then coming up with something at six a.m. Rarely, rarely.

And this is another thing. Good ideas don't come when you're tired. But so many people now are doing this thing where they write on Wednesday morning before they have to submit. Like from scratch, writing a sketch for like from six a.m. to 10 a.m. for that to be read the same day.

Like that freaks me out. But I think the reason why, maybe my theory on why people don't do it, don't write in advance is because I think they just need to compartmentalize so aggressively. Like when it's a work week, when it's a show week, I'm writing, I'm writing, I'm writing. When I'm off, I do not want to think about.

Yeah, maybe that's it. Any kind of sketch comedy. Maybe that's it. Like maybe that's it, yeah. Or we're terribly lazy and we don't think ahead. Yeah, that's probably. God, it's so sad sometimes when we think about how like certain things that are like programmed

into humanity, like just can't, we can't ever like get out of them. And that's okay, and that's okay. But like one of those things is writing a sketch in advance for us to know. Like humanity will never transcend that. No, and we'll always crave salty fats, sweet chocolates. We're always convinced that that third glass of wine

is going to get us back to that feeling the first glass of wine gave us. And these are all lies that humanity knows. And we're not ever, we're never, ever, ever going to transcend that. And so, it's time for us to leave this earth, I think, and colonize Mars and ruin that. I can't wait.

It is an incredible delight to talk to you. I say that. This was so nice. Did I, was it all therapeutic for you? Is there any way in which I can, is there anything you want to ask me as your therapist that I could help you with? Because I feel like I understand you.

I very much admire you. I've been through a lot. And I feel like I could be your, sort of, the therapist you don't pay. You could always call me up. I'll pay you. 600, you said? That's, what's your rate?

Well, it's 600 a minute. I'm out. Okay, great. Because come on, man. I mean, I have a incredible lifestyle. You do. A very lavish lifestyle. Yes.

I drove up here in three Bugattis. They were all lashed together with coil. And then, what's that notebook bound? With this? Yeah. This notebook right here? This is, oh, and there's no, the spineless notebook. Yeah, this is a notebook with no spine.

These are, I think, made in Japan. Oh, in accordion. It's like an accordion unfold. Oh, that's actually really cool. And I write, and you can write on both sides. Oh, that's perfect. I doodle, and I write things like, here it says, bow and yang, really get him, take him down a notch,

getting way too much praise from the media, chip away at his self-esteem, and then I have checks next to all the things I've done. Publicist, make sure publicist is locked behind glass. I don't know what to ask you. And I feel like this is like... Oh, you don't have to ask me anything. I don't want to put you on the spot.

I just thought I'm here. I know, I know. And also, I don't mean it, you know? You're never to contact me personally. I know, I know, of course. You know that, right? I do know. I was, you can't see,

while I was saying all that stuff to Bo, and I actually have a sign that I made that I use frequently on podcasts that says, I don't mean it. It's right there. And I'm holding it up, and it's an exclamation, and has three exclamation points for Bo and...

And you wrote it in serifs. You put little lines and stuff at the ends of them. I don't know why. Listen, Bo and I was really excited to talk to you. I know we've met, and there's always a lot of people around, and it doesn't really feel like a meeting. And this I was looking forward to.

I was looking forward to. Because not to embarrass you, but you are the kind of person who I really admire. You're a hard worker, you're really smart, and you have a lot of humility. I'm dissociating as I hear you say this.

Well, it's weird. I saw you leave your body. And the weird thing is you're naked when you leave your body. I'm naked, but it wasn't even like a spectral thing. It was like you could see, it was like a corporeal, leaving two bodies. I saw, right now,

and I'm gonna tell the audience what I saw. I saw a naked Bo and Yang climb out of the Bo and Yang in front of me, and make a really unpleasant face. You look like someone that just stumbled out of the bathroom naked. You've got to not do that in front of people. I won't, I won't.

It's only when they like shower me in compliments. Thank you, Conan. Yeah, and seriously, Bo and, have a great show this week, and thank you. Thank you for being here and for being, when I meet these young. Not that young anymore.

Oh, no. Well, anyway, no. Trust me, if I could tell you my age and your teeth would fall out. I'm 79 years old. That's amazing. Yeah, I gave birth to Lorne. That's how old I am.

And also my gender. All right, you'd have a good week. You too. Okay, who wants to start it off? I'll just do as I'm told. I'm a guy that reacts. Some say I'm a nuclear reactor. Let's begin.

How do we want to? Do we talk over the clip or let the clip play in a virtual? Talk over it. What's that? Let's talk over it. Unless I hear my own voice, the better. You know what it's like to be me.

Okay, I'll do as I'm told. I'm gonna suggest Gorley, you take charge. Maybe for the first time in your life. Let's do it. Okay, you got it. Well, this is exciting because Sona, you have your own new series on the Team Cocoa YouTube channel.

Wait, you've already had this one. What? This is very exciting because Sona, a new season of your series. Wait, let's try one more time. It's on YouTube, but it was on Instagram, before, right? Oh.

I don't know, honestly. I hate this so much. Okay, please. Yeah, let Gorley do it and please don't interrupt Gorley, anyone. He knows what he's doing. Go ahead, Gorley, in three, two, and it's all yours. This is very exciting, Sona,

because your web series, shit. Oh my God. What a stroke victim. This is amazing. Did you say video series, Adam? Is it a video series? I don't even know what it is. Okay, all right.

I have a web series. You've got to be quiet during this. Now, please. What? Despite everything he's done so far, I still believe in Gorley and I think this is going to be the take in three, two, one, it's all yours.

This is very exciting because Sona, a new season. What is your problem? I'm sorry, he's so like, this is very exciting. This is very exciting because Sona, you have me. Let's try this again and then two more mistakes like this

and I'm calling the EMTs. Can this just be the whole segment? Can we just stop right here? No, no, I'm sure Gorley's going to get it. Okay. Okay, take 15 and go. Sona, do you have a new video series out? Sona fixes your life.

It's the second, fuck. Why are you explaining to her that she has a new series? She knows she has a new series. Because the listener needs to know. Oh my God. What is that? All you have to do is say,

well, Sona, I find this very exciting. You have a new series out. You know, that's all you have to do. It's not a big deal. No, this is better. I hope, by the way, this has to air somehow because, and I'm not a doctor. I am not a neurosurgeon.

I know a lot of people think I am, but I think it's a small bubble of air that has worked its way into the speech center of Gorley's brain. And I think that's what's causing a complete meltdown. Gorley, no pressure. I don't mind it at all. Gorley, no pressure in five, four.

Get it right this time. Three, two, it's really on you. This has to be good. One, and you've got it. Hi, Sona, you're new show on the television. Could I do watch it? Oh, Jesus. All right, here we go.

Sona, word has it that your series, Sona Fixes Your Life, has a new season and the new first episode is out now. I thought we could take a little taste of it right now and talk about it a little bit. Really? So we're going to see a clip from Sona's. This is her web series, Sona Fixes Your Life.

Yes. OK, good. I just like to set the table. Oh, here we go. I don't. Why are you watching it? What is your approach to addressing sex to your children? Love you.

Oh. Oh, my God. Sona Fixes Your Life. Oh, what a dick. That person's a dick. This is great. Hi, guys. It's Sona.

Love, Sessian. Sona, please. The return of Sona Fixes Your Life. And as you can tell, I'm very serious. I have books behind me. I've read every single one. That's a lie. And I have this thing next to me.

What is this? It's a rocker. Why do I know that? Because I'm a parenting expert now. How am I a parenting expert? I have had children for four months, two of them. So obviously, I'm an expert. That's eight months.

So I'm happy to answer all the questions that you guys have about parenting. So let's raise your kids. At Euler, 277 says, what are your strategies for keeping Conan away from your children? Just to, A, never giving my address. B, I told him I was pregnant. But I think that if I just tell him

that I was a pillow the whole time, maybe he'll never show up. So he's going by. Well, why would someone say that? Why would someone say keep Conan away from your kids? Just to never tell him where I live. And then he'll just come and want to meet them. Well, Sona left.

Sona doesn't like hearing her own voice. And Sona, I have to say, I sympathize because I don't like hearing your voice. Come back in. She left the studio during that. I want to say you're very photogenic, Sona. Very. And you look very attractive.

Thank you. That was awful. No, it was not. I hate seeing that. Oh, stop it. No, that's awful. I just, I hate everything about what we're doing, talking about it, listening to it, watching it.

Wow, you're the best promoter of a project. Why are we even here if you're just going to make noises and say, don't waste your time? I think that could be very valuable. I'm a little hurt because a viewer said, or listener, whatever you want to call them, said, how do you keep Conan away from your kids? That's insulting.

I did visit your children. You did. And I worked hard to get some laughs out of them. And I, Mikey, easy. Easy laugh for Charlie. I don't know if I, whatever, smashed his car in a previous life, but he was just staring me down. There's always, Charlie's going to be

that guy in the audience for the rest of my life who doesn't give it up. I couldn't crack. Yeah, you're kidding. Cracked. I couldn't crack Charlie, but Mikey, very sweet and was fascinated, kept looking up at my hair. Well, they've never seen anyone like you before.

What do you mean? You are the tallest, widest person they've ever met. And your hair is very, can be scary to babies. Oftentimes they think it's immobile, my hair. And they try and bat at it. No, but I visited your kids and I thought I was very good. And I was very impressed with how adeptly you and Tak,

your husband, handle your kids because you have twins. So each of you is holding a kid. And then you're performing all these functions around the house. Just holding onto a kid. So Tak was like, oh, you want a beer? And I'm like, yeah, I'll take a beer. He went to the refrigerator and opened the refrigerator and got out a beer, opened it, poured it into a glass.

Then I think he built a ship and a bottle with one hand. And the whole time, holding your son. And you're doing stuff too. You're painting stuff and you're doing eye surgery on people and you're holding your other son. It's amazing. Well, we kind of have to because especially we had a lot of help and then my parents left for a week.

So then we were like, oh, we actually have to parent these children right now. Why did your parents leave for a week? Were they deported? No, they were not deported. Well, I'm just curious. No, they were not deported. Do they have their papers in order?

Oh my god. Do they have their papers in order? They do. I mean, I used to threaten to deport them when they would upset me. I'd like you to mad at me for making that joke. When you used to regularly threaten to deport your parents when you were a teenager, right?

Yeah, when I was a teenager and they'd upset me. I told them I was going to deport them. And they're like, we're citizens. And I'm like, I'm sure there's a loophole. What, Sona, you need to fix your own life. Yeah, you're fixing other people's lives? No, I know. I love that you're posing on the balcony of your new home.

Yeah, that was so silly. I know it's a fun thing to shoot, that's all. And I like connecting with your fans. They're your fans that I'm poaching. I think they're your fans as well, let's be fair. Well, I mean, it's off of the Team Coco stuff. So they are your fans. That's true, yes.

And of course, the house that you're in is paid for by my paychecks. What? You employ me and I do a service and then I get paid for it. Well, I employ you, I don't know what service you're doing. You're doing it. I can't come in today. It's just not a good day for me.

Where's my check? That's my Sona impression. Is it? It's good. Yeah. You want to hear my Conan impression? Yeah, well, that's by the way, everyone you're hearing has a college education.

Well, congratulations on your series and best of luck to you, Sona and stop making noises and bitching about how you hate the sound of your voice. You've got to convince people to check this thing out. Oh, yeah, I like it. It's good, I guess. I'll do it for you, Sona. And this is just off the top of my head.

New episodes post on Fridays on Team Coco's YouTube page. And the first episode is out now. Want to know how to get your life fixed? Sona takes questions from fans via Team Coco's Instagram stories, so be sure to follow at Team Coco for the next time we ask questions. OK, well, if you're making room for that in your schedule, you don't have a lot going on. I'm sorry, but that's just absurd.

Great promotion, too. Yeah. Yeah, I'm creating content for you. You're welcome. OK, all right, I'm sure you're being overly compensated. But anyway, the important thing is that we're friends, you've got a project, and I wish you all the best. Let me just read this note off my hand,

and I care for you and respect you. There we go. OK. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gorley, produced by me, Matt Gorley, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf, theme song by the White Stripes.

Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering by Will Beckton, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Year Wolf.