Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Bryan Cranston

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

Actor Bryan Cranston feels very lucky about being happily paid to be Conan O’Brien’s friend. Bryan sits down with Conan to talk about brushes with Charles Manson, establishing contact with Vince Gilligan on The X-Files, and portraying characters with complex moralities from Breaking Bad to his new show Your Honor. Later, Conan responds to a listener voicemail regarding his strangest purchases. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is Brian Cranston, and I feel very lucky to be happily paid about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Hey there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Whether you're a regular listener or this is your first time, we welcome you to our humble abode. We hope you enjoy it here. We're having a good time. I got my pal Sonam of Sassian with me. Hi. My assistant in real life for 10 years plus, yes? You know what? It just became 12 years in the beginning of January. Wait, from 10 to 12? I know, he's always saying 10, but it's 12 now. Well, but I get it gets confusing because you've really worked for me for like two years. Okay. If you add it up all the time you've actually done work, it's like two years,

and that's weekends and lots of breaks. I'm not going to argue with that. That, Matt, you'll fess up to that. Sonam, we've been together 12 years and never a crossword. Never a problem. Smooth sailing all the way. And of course, Matt Gorley here as well. Matt, you and I have not known each other as long as I was introduced to you when we started this podcast. That was two years ago, but it just became four as we're recording. What were your first impressions, Matt? You had never met me before. And as a true egotistical comedian, I'm going to ask you, what did you think of me? Oh my God. I remember how conversational Sonam was. Okay. Interesting. Hey, Matt, tell me what you thought about me. Tell me what your

impression was about me. Who asked that question? No, I asked that question because I'm going to tell you something. I didn't choose Matt Gorley. Adam Sacks, the genius behind many of our schemes these days, said, Conan, you should do a podcast. And he said, and I want you to come into this room and meet the person who's going to be your producer. And here he is, Matt Gorley. So I remembered after meeting Matt, well, let's see the other candidates. And then I was told, there are no other candidates. Yes, I did. They just said it's Matt. By the way, this is the, oh, Adam, jump in here. Adam, you're there. Don't act like you're not there. Did you, it's not like you gave me a choice. You said here, who's doing it? It's Matt Gorley.

I think I said, if you don't, if you really object, if you really, really, really dislike him, then we can, we can look for other options. But I will say in all sincerity, you said, you said, really, really, really dislike him. And I only really, really. Yeah. So that's what we kept him. You know, it was kind of similar on my end because I was never told like this is going to be a job for you. It was like I was brought in as a consultant and it was kind of revealed to me along the way. And then we did that first pilot and it was then it was just kind of set in stone. But I remember being kind of nervous because I was a big fan of yours, Conan. And so it was. I was a big fan. You were. Yeah, I was. I was. That's what happened. That's what happens to people.

So was I, Matt, when I first started. Never, never meet your heroes. Yeah. That's true. That's true. No, I, no, we, we hit it off right away, Matt. And then I've, I've, I've, we've since found out that we share insane interests, mostly in, you know, weird history trivia from the 20th century involving presidents that people don't think about that much. So, so it all worked out. Yeah. And, and I remember learning that Sona and I lived a town next to each other. We grew up in a neighboring town. Yeah. That's why we're so chill. And I think we bring that chill element and then Conan, you are whatever you are, you are you. Well, don't you think now to be, you may have hit upon something there, Sona, which is

both of you guys come from California, right? Yeah. I've always thought, and I grew up in Boston and winter there lasts like 11 months. And also I grew up in the Boston of the late 60s and 70s, which is a very different. Now you go to Boston and there's a croissant shop inside every croissant shop. I grew up in a very, go watch a movie called The Friends of Eddie Coyle, which is a, an old movie that, that shows you what Boston really used to look like. Every car was made of rust. The snow was really dirty. Everyone was talking like they had a cod in their mouth. And it was just a very different, there was, I think we had three restaurants in all of Boston and two of them were McDonald's. And so it was a different time back then. And then it all got

whitewashed and everyone thought it's cheers and it's the cheers bar and let's go see Norm. And that's all bullshit. I grew up in the, in the rough and tumble Boston, well, Brookline, nice suburb, but still, let's not quibble. I've been to your neighborhood. It's very nice. Please. It's nice now. You know why it's nice now? Because I grew up there and they prettied it up after, because Conan lived there. Yes, they went back and they realized, well, there's going to be pilgrimages now. So my neighbor is from your neighborhood. Yeah. You think you're the reason for the pilgrimage? Because JFK wasn't enough. Okay. They needed one other person to push it over the top. And so it was Conan O'Brien. It was used to be JFK

from Brookline, Massachusetts. And they were like, that's pretty, that's almost, almost to the level of let's clean up this town. Then Conan O'Brien 1993, he takes over late night. Kaboom. Then they realized we finally have enough of a justification. And so they go back and they pretty up the whole town of Brookline. It was squalid when I was growing up there. At least you got JFK from your neighborhood. Nixon's from my neighborhood. I know. Remember, remember when my neighborhood famously debated your neighborhood? That's right. And my neighborhood sweated all there on its own streets. Yeah. And your neighborhood didn't shave and my neighborhood did. Your neighborhood wore makeup. People who listen. Those people that listen to on radio. Yeah, on the radio. People

that listened on the radio thought your neighborhood did better, but people that watched on TV thought my neighborhood did better. Yes, it's two freaks and nerds talking things through. Hey, you know, Fergie from the Black Eyed Peas is from my neighborhood. So she didn't debate anyone. She sang the national anthem to great success. Oh, yeah. Was she one of those people that sang? Oh, she interpreted the national anthem. Yeah. That's being kind. Well, I like Fergie. And I like Nixon. Yeah. Well, there you go. And I like JFK. Great. We got off track. The point I was trying to make is that I've always believed that I would be a different person if, like a young Superman, if Boston was sort of starting to

about to blow up because it was going to hit by a meteor and my parents quickly selected one child out of six and it was me, sorry, brothers and sisters, but they were like, we can only save one. It must be young Conan, you know, like Kal-El, Jor-El. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they put me in a little spaceship and shot me to Los Angeles and I grew up in this incredible climate. I think I'd be a different person. I really do. I don't think I'd be as uptight. I think I'd have a V-shaped torso. I think I would have, I would have been dating, casually dating people when I was 14. I'd have been, I'd have been surfing and I'd have a serious girlfriend at a very young age. All the stuff that didn't happen for me. That didn't happen to us. I don't think that

Sona did you, I never had a V-shaped torso casually dated at 14. Sona has a V-shaped torso. I have a V-shaped torso. No, but you know what, when I, when I lived by the beach, that's when I was like, this is LA. Yeah, me too. That's, yeah, that's how, that's when you really feel it. That, but yeah, I think the soul gal life though, it just makes you kind of chill, right? Is it the sunshine? I think so. Oh, I can't hear you through all the chill right now. Yeah, so chill. But see, I don't have that. And even though I live in Los Angeles now, it's too late. I spent way too much time on the East Coast and it's in me and I'm constantly yelling at birds in the backyard, getting into arguments with them, accusing them of being Yankee fans.

You know, it's just, it's a shit show for me all the time because I carry that shit show within me. And then whenever I go home, I immediately, when I go home to Boston to see my folks, I immediately go, oh yeah, I get it. Right. Yeah. Well, can I say that I've known you since you moved here and you've, you've definitely been more mellow. Oh, you chilled. You did chill a little bit, Conan. I've noticed a difference. But I don't know if that's just age, you know. Yeah. I think, let me explain something to my listeners and this has medically been proven, but as a man ages, his testosterone level starts to plummet. Okay. All right. And so, it's time to start the show. Who's the guest? Yeah, let's do this. Who's the guest today?

Shockingly low testosterone levels now. Sure. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Who's the guest? We're running out of intro time. And the guest is? We're running out of tape. We're actually using tape this time. I think medically I am a female fetus right now. And so maybe that's why I've calmed down. Oh yeah, I should probably get on to the guest. We can't. You know, I say this a lot. I do this, you know, thing like, we can't waste any time. We've got a great guest and it sounds, and look, sometimes I say it when we don't have a great guest, you know. I'll say like, we got to get going. We got stab Bickley on the show. And he's from that new program, Let's Do the Do. And stab Bickley. You got to hear this. But I think we have today one of the

easily, one of the finest actors of our time. Just brilliant. I think he is a genius. He's an Emmy and Tony award-winning actor who played Walter White on the hit AMC series, Breaking Bad. Now you can see him in the Showtime series, Your Honor, which I've been watching and it's fantastic. I'm thrilled he's with us today. Brian Cranston, welcome. I am delighted that you're on the podcast because you're one of my favorite people, one of my favorite actors of all time. And also, I've had the pleasure of interviewing you a bunch of times and then getting to know you a little bit, seeing you at different events. And you're always the consummate gentleman and I salute you. You literally say that to every guest you have on

your show. I know I'm reading it right now. You know what I have? I have it written on my hand and I say it to the worst people in the world. I've said it to many of the worst, most horrible people in the world, convicted mass murderers. And before I get started, I'm like, before I get started and we go over your crime spree, I just want to say you're one of my favorite people. Of all the murderers. Of all the murderers. You're my favorite. Thank you, Ted Bundy. Now listen, I'm proud of that interview. We had a great time. Yes. We played a drinking game and you should check it out. So much to talk about. I want to talk about your new show, which I am hooked on. I really love it. I love Your Honor. But there is so much to discuss

and what I like to do is always make it about me in some way. And I think that's appropriate. It's very much appropriate. Yes. We're both actors, I believe, of the same caliber. Take it easy, son. I've never seen someone actually just walk out on a podcast. No, you did. I have had the opportunity to meet all kinds of distinguished people and then I had this moment where I totally sold you out. I name checked you in a way that I should be ashamed of, which is I bumped into you somewhere and you were wearing this Heisenberg tie clip. Oh, yeah. And it's absolutely one of the coolest things I'd ever seen. And I just complimented you on this very cool Heisenberg tie clip and you took it off and you gave it to me. Now, of course,

I'm such a breaking bad fan, such a fan of yours that I proceed to wear that tie clip around. Now, you'd think being in this business, I'd be kind of cool about it. But no, the first person who bumped into me and said, oh, that's so cool. You got a Heisenberg tie clip. Where'd you get that? And I said, oh, a friend gave it to me. And they said, who's that? And I said, oh, Brian Cranston. And in that moment, like in an old cartoon, my head turned into a horse's ass. And I don't do things like that, but I was so giddy. I was such a dick in that moment. And I think I've done that many times and sometimes to the same person over and over again. My tie pin? Yes, I know. Yes, Brian Cranston gave it to me. I'm glad to hear that. And also the people who

gave me that tie clip will be glad to hear that because it's actually a GPS tracker. And so we've been marking exactly where you've been over the last couple of years. The IRS is very concerned. FBI has got a huge file on you now. Now, why does the IRS care about what I do at a strip club? Yeah, you can't deduct the shrimp. That was it. You should have just let that go. It's a second job. I'm a dancer. I'm the lowest paid stripper, male stripper in the history of the world. Come see consumption boy. Brian, so much to talk about. First of all, I was

delighted to, there were things I have in preparation for this interview that I read up about that I didn't know. I thought I knew a lot about you. And then I find out there's this whole period of your youth where you're a badass on a motorcycle riding across America when you're in your early 20s. And what brought that about? And who is that guy still in you? Are you still that guy? Yeah, you don't want to know him. You're like Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven. I'm not like that anymore. Back when, I'll try to make this short. There was a lot of confusion in my childhood, a lot of discontent. My family unit exploded when I was 11 and split up and I lived with my grandparents for a while and I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I thought I would

become a cop because I became a police explorer in high school and I was pretty good at it. And so, oh, that seems like a pragmatic thing to do. So I'll do that. And then in college, I took an elective course in acting. I got to kiss this really pretty girl in a scene in the first day in class and I thought, oh my God, this is the greatest thing in the world. And then I thought I thought this girl also really likes me. So this is the easiest date I'm ever going to have. And so I asked her out and she said, no, I have a boyfriend. And then I realized, oh, she was just acting. I swear to you, I thought she really liked me. My head is exploding now. And so at the end of two years, it was like either I'm transferring to a university to continue police

science courses or I run away and I ran away. Basically hopping on a motorcycle and leaving the state for two years was running away. And in retrospect, I find that I needed to go get lost so that someday I could be found instead of locking myself into a position where I was just going to take the easy road and follow suit of what I was training for. And but I realized I wasn't going to make the best policeman that I could have. And it really opened my eyes. So it was, it was to grow up. It was to mature and find some adventure and figure out what I really wanted to do. There's no way probably I can't prove this, but I don't think you could be possibly doing the kind of work at the level that you're doing it if you hadn't

thrown yourself out there for a while. That's for sure. I always tell my daughter too that whenever something bad happens, it's going to make a great story. If everything in your life was terrific and beautiful and no hurdles to leap over and no stumbling and where where are the lessons you're going to get from that? And by the way, where are the stories? Every single story worth it's merit comes from a place of failure. Somewhere along the line, the hero stumbles and fails and has to get back up and achieve or overcome a fear or an inadequacy or something. That's those are the best stories we want to watch. And if you have a collection of those in your real life, you're actually lucky for it. Remember that line in a Billy Joel song, you have no scars

in your face and you cannot handle pressure. It's like you need some life, some lines on your face, some scars to know how to behave and how lucky you are right now. There's a famous story about Humphrey Bogart who later in his career, around the time of Citizen Kane, he would tell the makeup people, don't make me look too good. Let people see what I really look like because I've earned that face and that's the face of an actor who's been places and done things. Yeah. I got news for you though. He wasn't in Citizen Kane. I'm sorry. Did I say Citizen Kane Mutiny? I'm sorry. Well, hold on. You know what I find his best? Rather than admit I made a mistake, I'm going to cover it by saying late in life,

Humphrey Bogart was deluded. He went through a period of delusion where he thought that he was Orson Welles and was in Citizen Kane. Well, thanks for catching that. I meant Kane Mutiny. Yeah. I didn't want to have you get all those emails like, hey, dummy. Asshole. Well, then they'd be mad at you too for not correcting me. I can't believe Chris didn't catch it. Walter White would have caught that. He caught it. Yeah. When you were driving around a motorcycle, is this true that you claim that you believe you saw Charles Manson? It's not a belief. I did. It wasn't the time I was on a motorcycle. This was 1967, I think. And I was about 10 years old. And we used to go horseback riding because I was born

and raised in Southern California in the valley in Kanoga Park. And we used to go horseback riding at the Spawn Ranch in the Santa Susana Pass where Charles Manson held his little player. It was his batcave. It was his batcave. So my cousin and I were dropped off by my mom to go horseback riding one time. And she was a year older than me. So she was 11 or so. We're getting our, we're signing up for our horses and someone charged into the room and said, Charlie's on the hill. Charlie's on the hill. And he said, go on, go on. I'll take care of this. There was an older guy taking care of, but it was such a startling moment that that's why we remembered it. It was like, oh, God. And the old guy got our horses and we looked out and we

see there's six or seven people jumping on horses and riding off. And I will tell you, when I saw the movie. Once upon a time in Hollywood. Starry Humphrey Bogart. Damn. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Boy, he got it right. He got it right. So he recreates Spawn Ranch and there's that fantastic whole sequence that takes place at Spawn Ranch and it's chilling. Yes. And so what I witnessed in real life when I was 10 to see those people jump on horseback and ride away was the same thing I saw in the movie. So back to the story. My cousin and I get our little horses ready for the glue factory and we come plumb, plumb, plumb. Then we go down the

pathway and about 15 minutes into our little walk out, we see this trail of horses coming back. Now, the trail itself is probably eight feet wide. So you're actually pass each other very close. And there were six to eight people on horseback and we noticed right in the middle, there was one guy sitting on a horse who was not holding his own reins, but the guy in front of him was holding his horse's reins. And we saw him, this guy, short guy, black shoulder length hair, black eyes and drugged out of his mind, undulating to the movement of his horse. Just and my cousin and I are passing stealing looks over there as we're passing him and we, you couldn't take your eyes off him and they pass and she turns around because he was in

the front and she goes, that must be Charlie. I go, yeah, yeah, weird. Then two years later, what happens happens, all the murders and they finally catch up to him. They put his face on there here. The guy had spawned ranch and I'm freaking out and my cousin calls me and she goes, did you do what the guy did? I said, yep, that's him. We saw his face like, here's the face of Charles Manson. Of course, we only knew him as Charlie and that was my brush with Charles Manson. That's insane. And as I said, I'm throwing this all into the general category of you experienced, I mean, that's just one of many experiences that you have that experience, but you're also out on the road, you're on a motorcycle, you're going through

what I imagine is a lot of familial pain, you're going through just so much stuff at an early age and acquiring so much that you could probably draw on. And then your career, you have this enviable career. I mean, with Malcolm in the middle alone, I remembered always marveling at your comedic abilities on that show. You were just absolutely fantastic and thinking a lot of people would be satisfied with that, but your career really took a while. It took a while. Well, I'll tell you what, it took a while was notoriety and celebrity. I was working steady as an actor since I was 25 years old. That's 40 years for me. So I've been working for 40 years, but since 25 years old, I have been only working as an actor for a living.

When I was 40, I got Malcolm in the middle. When I was 50, I got Breaking Bad. 60, I'm doing Broadway and it's like a renaissance. I was just talking about this the other day with Humphrey Bogart and he was giving me some advice. This will haunt me forever. I swear to God, he's in Citizen King. He comes in at one moment and offers Orson Welles some soup. And I finally had the nerve to ask Humphrey, what was the meaning of Rosebud? And he said these magical words to me. He said, get the fuck away from me. That sounds like him. I had the pleasure of seeing you on Broadway in All the Way where you played Lyndon Johnson and I was just delighted by that performance. And I just thought to myself, you're having the right kind of career,

maybe the perfect kind of career where things just seem to keep getting better and better and better. And yes, it was on a low simmer, but this is the way probably for it to lay out, don't you think? If you could pick a way for it to lay out? I appreciate you categorizing my career as a low simmer. A low simmer that led to a boil. I'm talking about a low simmer and then it led to a boil. Look, if it's always boiling, the beans come out of the pot. Once you get the boil, you lance the boil. They're very careful. You've had a pus filled career that is now erupted. I don't see why you'd be insulting at all. No, there is a Chinese saying that I once heard that translated, what it's supposed to mean is,

may you find success early in life? And it's meant as a curse to say that you won't be able to handle it. That wisdom comes along with time and maturity and growth. And as like Malcolm Gladwell would say, put in your 10,000 hours of work towards something before you call yourself an expert at it, or before you could actually say, I deserve to earn a living at this. And so that's what it was. It's like, I just kept my nose clean to keep my head down, do the work, and I was grateful. And it is my most cherished professional accomplishment to say that at the age of 25 and onward, I've only had to work as an actor to support myself and my family. Yeah. That's very cool. I've worked, as we know, briefly as a male stripper, but other than that, I have applied the comedic arts. That's

just telling people, that's what I'm doing. It is comedy. It is comedy. You gave yourself an artistic bent there, the comedic arts, as opposed to just doing stand-up. Just being an idiot. Well, let me ask you, how old were you when you finally made money? No more open mic nights, no more, what was the time? I started out as a, I first made money writing, not performing. I made money writing comedy, and I was so excited. When I was 19 years old, I wrote a piece for a national parody that the Harvard Lampoon was doing. I got a check for $200. Wow. And I needed the $200, but I refused to cash it, and I still have it, because I thought to myself, I just made money writing something silly. And that's when the

nickel dropped, that this is something I would do anyway, and they pay for this shit. 22. I was 22 when I first started earning money in Los Angeles, coming up with ideas. Yeah, but Conan, you can actually start cashing those checks that you've been accepting all these years. Did you realize that? I didn't. I still have all the checks. I've never cashed them, but my father, his last name is Texaco, Dr. Thomas Texaco, and so I don't need it. That's something Jay Leno would always say in the commercial breaks at the Tonight Show when I was on as a guest, he would always lean over, and I've heard a lot of people say this too. He was very proud of the fact that he made so much money doing stand-up

that he never cashed his Tonight Show money. So he'd lean over in the commercial break and go, you know, I've never cashed the Tonight Show money. I've not cashed a single check from the Tonight Show, and I think stop telling people that. It's not cool. I don't even need this. You know, I've got so much, I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with it. Yeah. I remember when I was doing all the way before Broadway, we did it at the ART in Cambridge, and I think I was, I was invited to be honored by the lampoon and at that triangular building. Yup, on Bow Street. Yeah, the castle. The castle. And it brought me in and everyone's masked and everyone's doing all this pomp and circumstance, and it's the weirdest night ever. But I also think

that I was honored because I was geographically desirable at the time. I was in Cambridge working and they said, well, let's get him. He's close. Well, first of all, a couple of things. The masks are to hide the acne. And I wore mine for many years afterwards. No, there was no masks. I don't know what you're talking about with masks, but the lampoon will do any, they love having a big deal celebrity come by. And I've told this story many times, but we used to make up trophies, literally invent, go to a trophy store and make up an award that didn't even exist to get celebrities to come by and be honored by us. And that's, that's how I met a couple of really big deal celebrities and handed them what was a bowling trophy. But we saw, we saw it off the arm that was bowling and

like taped, you know, the comedy mask onto it crudely and said, you just won this prestigious award. It was complete bullshit. I have had the pleasure a little bit of getting to know Vince Gilligan. I've gotten to have a meal with him, you know, a time or two. And he recently, my wife and I went to the theater and he was sitting right in front of us, being a real dick, heckling the play. When was this? When did you go to a play? I went to a place, this is pre COVID, obviously, just pre COVID. Yeah, if the play was called ironically, the plague can never come here. And starring Humphrey Book. So anyway, no, but such a lovely guy, and I'm thinking it's so funny because you, you met Vince Gilligan in this other period of your

life. Were you doing, was it an X files that you were doing? Yeah, 1998. I was doing the rounds. I guess starring on anything that will have me. And there was a role on the X files that he wrote. I didn't know who he was, but I got that role. And it was a character that was really kind of despicable and it was anti-semitic and he was bigoted on every level and just an ornery asshole kind of guy. And he needed, it was an invitation to learn the nuance and the brilliance of Vince Gilligan's writing. So the concept was that Mulder, David Coveney's character, had to drive in a westerly direction at 80 miles an hour or my character, my head would explode. I'm in the backseat and it's messy. They're always rewriting the same old scene. Same old things.

The old 80 miles west of my head will blow up. That will make it 80 miles east. How about that? So he's driving, he's driving in the car and he's got to keep it up or my headaches are going to explode. Now, most writers would have written my character to be sympathetic, to be nice, to be a good guy. And so that the hero, the star of your show, yeah, David saved that guy. He's a nice guy, but you're not invested in that. That's an obvious. So what Gilligan did was make my character awful, despicable human being, which puts the moral dilemma in the center of your lead character. Is this man worth saving simply because he's a human being? What he would love to do is just pull over and watch me explode, but he can't do it. That's the brilliance of it. So

as he starts developing that, I go away for seven years. I do Malcolm in the middle. I didn't really become a friend. I didn't know him. And then after Malcolm finishes, I get this call that Vince Gilligan wants to see me. Do you remember him? He remembers you. And I said, no, I don't know who that is. And so he was a writer on X-Files and he's doing a show called Breaking Bad. And I go, what does that mean? He goes, well, nobody really knows. But do you want to meet him? And I said, yeah, if he remembers me, okay, I'll meet him. So far, you're coming off as really uncurious and surly in this story. What's that, Gilligan? What does it mean? What does that mean? It's shenanigans. It's never getting better than Malcolm in the middle. Tell him to

fuck off. So I go to talk to him and I, but I read his script and it's just the best one hour script I have ever read. It just kept me going. I was so sympathetic toward this character. And that was his genius that he told me in the meeting that he wants to change. He wants to bring about change of the lead character. He wants to take him from a good guy to a bad guy. And I said, I don't think that's ever been done before because look at the characters. Tony Soprano was always Tony Soprano. Vic Mackie was him. Every character is the same. They adjust slightly to impetus that comes into their lives. But by and large, they're the same character. This was turning, as he said, I want to turn Mr. Chips into Scarface. Yes. And that's what he did. And so I'm fortunate

that he remembered me from doing X-Files. And he said, that's the character that I need. Someone who does start to do despicable things and yet the audience will still sympathize with you. One of my favorite American movies of the last 25 years or 30 years is The Unforgiven, Clint Eastwood's film. And one of the reasons I love it so much is that it's very European. A lot of American movies are, you root for the good guy and then he wins in the end after he's gone through a bunch of scrapes. This had this very sophisticated, everybody in that film is trying to do the right thing. Everybody, if you look at it, everyone in that movie, every character thinks they're doing the right thing and all that results is carnage. And I've thought about that a lot and I realized

one of the things I love so much about Breaking Bad is I understood everyone's motivation and you were taken there naturally. So you can't go from Mr. Chips to Scarface in one episode or 10 episodes or 30 episodes. It took years of people and I think that's why I think more than any TV show I can think of where everyone was so invested in it. I mean, the world was invested in this man because we understood every step of the way why he did what he did. And you think of storytelling, story should be as long as it takes to tell it completely. So when you think about, can you imagine Breaking Bad as a feature film? It would have been terrible. In two hours to tell that story, the transition of a man from good to bad in two hours, it's like it's too truncated.

It's too sandwiched together. You wouldn't be able to experience the slow pain of that transition. And so it is as long as it's and not to be smirched Saturday night live, but sometimes they'll do a brilliant sketch and they'll say, let's make this a movie. And it's like, no, no, it's great in sketch form. It was designed to be three minutes long or five minutes long. Don't try to make it two hours. I think about there are many times where people have asked me to do comedy at a situation and I start asking them about the room and what's the occasion. And they'll say, it doesn't matter. You just come out and you'd be really funny. And then we bury the guy. You know, I'm like, what? You know, wait, it's a funeral. And they're

like, yeah. And I'll say, no, you don't want me at that. It doesn't, it doesn't work. And they're like, that'd be really funny if you came out and and or it's a complete, it's just the wrong context or what am I following? Well, you're following a 20 minute video on horrible things that happen to dogs and then you come out. And they believe that comedy is a thing. The way a refrigerator is a thing that you put something in and it gets colder. It's just a in it. You're like, no, no, it has to, it's all about context. Yeah. It's about so and I did. Did you really? Please tell me you did do a stand up at a funeral. Please tell me. No, well, I did, but the one of the bigger challenges I've had in my life is I did a, it was a very good event.

It was in town hall in New York City. And it was a very, very good, worthy event. But the people, just the way it timed out, it was to raise money and an excellent cause for people that had been really grievously injured in the war. And so that there was a long film up top about the injuries. Then they had people come out and play taps. So they played taps. And after they finished playing taps, a voice of God just said, Conan O'Brien. So I walked out to taps. Taps was my, and look, either, you know, I'm not, listen, it's about the cause and it's all that that, but, and I actually, I had to talk about, do you understand the situation I'm in right now? And that ended up being the thing that I think helped turn it around. And obviously,

my struggles in that moment paled in comparison to the sacrifice that all these people had made. But I was just thinking, you know, it's, that was, that's a moment where I, you talk about moments where you remember, I remembered being backstage and they started to play taps and then hearing my voice and almost wanting to be, I'm thinking, I'm sure glad I'm not that fucking guy and realizing I'm that fucking guy. You know, but I've been watching, as I said, I've been watching your honor and this character playing Michael Desiado. And again, you're, you've chosen this role that I think speaks to a lot of the work that you've already done. And, and, and you're, so you're well prepared for this, but it's something where I understand everybody's

motivation. And, and, and I'm wary of giving away too much about the show. But as a dad, as someone who's got a teenage son and daughter, your son does something and your character, a judge is trying to save your son. But you're, you're doing all these things that are completely anathema to who you are as a judge. But I understand every single thing you're doing. And I understand why you're doing it. But it's a, it's, that's I think what really makes the show so riveting is that, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a tough one. The premise itself got me. And, and I would present that to your listeners. I would ask all seven of them if you were told there's an eight. We're told there's an eight. We don't have proof, but we're told there's an eight.

If you were presented with the, the, the real belief that your son or daughter was being threatened with their life, would you become a criminal to save their life? And I haven't talked to anybody who said, no, yes, they would become, I would do that. And so I said, in this premise, my character is a, is a superior court judge. And he tries to convince his son who was, we talked about the premise. The premise is that my son is involved in a hit and run accident. He panics and leaves the scene of the accident and the boy who he hit on a motorcycle dies. And he's distraught with that, of course. And he realizes he made a huge mistake when he confesses what he did to me. I convince him to do the right thing. We're going to the police station,

we're going to turn you in and we're going to be responsible and accountable for our actions. However, at the police station, I discover the parents of the dead boy is a mob boss, a deadly, dangerous mob boss. And I know with every ounce of my being that that guy is going to kill my son no matter what. And that's the thing that turns it around. And my character then uses all of his law background as a lawyer and as a judge to be able to say, okay, how do I reverse engineer what actually happened and create an alibi, destroy evidence, manipulate a jury and to get this into the so that my son stays alive. And of course, whenever you try to become someone you're not, it's a slippery slope to destruction.

That's what happens. It's quite good. The actor who plays your son is amazing. Hunter Duhann. Just when you're describing it, if you don't like the son or sympathize, because when you lay the story out and say that the son is involved in this hit and run and kills this mob boss's child and then runs away, it's so well done because your son is having an asthma attack while it's happening. You see all the reasons why he tried to do the right thing, but then panicked and ends up doing the wrong thing. But it's laid out correctly. Do you know what I mean? I'm saying, do you know what I mean? You're the star of the show. Do you understand, Brian? I hear it's a good show. I haven't seen it. No, but that's the genius going back to the

most underrated element of all performance art is the writing. Every performer knows that you are only going to be as good as the writing is. And I say this often, if you handed Meryl Streep, C-level material at her best, she can get it to a B because she's that good, but it won't ever be an A because the material is just not there. So when you're handed A-level material, you're a little apprehensive and nervous, but you then read the script and see the guidepost of how it's going to take you on this journey and just memorize your words and don't bump into the furniture and you might be okay. So you had this career that I described as starting on a low simmer and then building to an outrageous boil. I mean, there's beans flying all over the place and sticking

to the ceiling and there's a kitchen fire because your career is on such a boil. My question is, you had so many years as a working actor and then respected actor doing well and then you hit this note and now because of Breaking Bad, I can't imagine a place you could go in the world where you would not get recognized. Are you okay with that level of fame? Well, I don't know that I've thought about that. I don't know if it really matters if I'm okay with it. Fame is an interesting and odd thing. It's not something that either one of us was able to prepare for. We didn't know what that was going to be like. You're just doing your thing. It's a byproduct of your success as a professional in your field and it's very rare too because we both

know scores of people who are talented who don't reach that level of celebrity. So you've got to count yourself very fortunate. With that comes a lack of privacy. Interestingly enough, you have tremendous benefits on one side and there are a few things that you have to learn to live without from that point on. But it's worth it as I think you'll attest that you have opportunities and meeting people and reading really great material and working with terrific directors on my end of it. I know you to be a very nice, sensitive person. There must be times where you think, I'm very grateful for all this success, but now isn't the best time. It is. Well, as you know, you have to set up some boundaries. So for example, when I go to a restaurant with my family,

once I'm in the restaurant and seated, I don't take pictures. I don't sign autographs. I don't do that. People will approach the table and I'll say politely, no, I can't do that right now. I appreciate it. I'll shake your hand. Thank you. If you want to wait and meet me outside when I'm done, I'd be happy to do that. But otherwise, if I stood up for one person, then it gives permission for other people approach. And what happens? The dinner out with my family stops being that. And now I'm sharing my time with strangers and it creates an odd dynamic then within my family. I've had moments where I'm with my family. No one's approached for a selfie. We're not getting along. And I say out loud, I'm sure someone wants a selfie here just to get the fuck out of that

situation. And when no one just to create distance and people are like, we're good. And I'm like, no. I'll pass. They're like, I really liked you in the 90s. And I'm like, I'm here now, man. I'll pay for your meal. I'll pay for everyone's meal. Let's just get a line going. We're good. It's an Arby's. It's not that expensive. Brian, it is a delight to talk to you. I would feel wrong and evil keeping you any longer because you've been generous with your time. But just delightful to talk to you. Always delightful running into you. I love wearing the tie clip. Thank you. And being incredibly obnoxious about it. I'm glad you liked it. That's great. To people. Yeah. No, seriously. My wife is tired of me saying, check out my tie clip. She's like,

I know. We all know that you know Brian Cranston and he gave you a tie clip. Shut up. It's four in the morning. Don't wake me up again. And seriously, I'm thrilled with your new show, Your Honor. And I can tell my last observation is that you clearly after Breaking Bad said, I just spent years telling a story that took place in an arid desert. I want to be in New Orleans. Put me in humidity. Put me in humidity. Let me eat and drink and soak up all the culture. Yeah. That's what it was. That's what did it. It's all about the humidity. Well, Brian, thank you very much. Thanks, Co. I appreciate it. It was a blast. Thank you, man. You guys want to do some voicemails? Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I not knowing what's in them,

but I trust in the kindness of humans. What? I trust that people know that I'm sensitive and that the voicemails won't be mean. I think you're overestimating your fans. I think because you're sensitive. They just want to shit on you. Okay. That idea seems to bring you delight, Sona. You seem to be chuckling away at the idea of me getting my feelings hurt. I'm sorry. But bring it on, Matt. I can handle it. Okay. Let's take a lesson. Hey, guys. So I'm just listening to episode 99, my way to work. And you guys mentioned Conan sending Sona out to buy some BDSM stuff, which made me think, one, what is the weirdest thing that Conan has since Sona to buy, but also feel like the perks of having a personal assistant when you're famous is that they can go do shit like that for

you and not draw attention to yourself and your business. But Sona is famous now. And I wonder if that actually hamper her ability to be an assistant. Yeah. So that's about it. You guys cheer me up on my way to the hospital. Keep it going. Bye. Oh my God. Wait, is she, does she work at the hospital? It wasn't clear. I don't know anything more than that. And let me set this up. The episode she's talking about was Sona buying something for Conan. But Conan, you joked that you sent her out for BDSM stuff. But then that led her to ask this question about whether Sona can do that. Right. So let's make, let's clear up a few things. First of all, I hope that person's headed to the hospital in a work capacity. But if they're going for some procedure, I hope that

that went well. So we wish, we wish you well. I also love, I listened to episode 99. I know. We have no, oh, good old 99. That was a corker. I have no idea which one episode, you know what I loved. I liked episode 48. That was me at my best. And then, yeah, and also I'd like to clear up that, yes, I was joking when I said that I sent Sona out to buy bondage, you know, sadomasochistic stuff for me, because as we all know, I make that shit myself. Homemade whips and stuff? Yeah. I like to make whips and I make my own chains. I have a latex press in the basement. And so I look, I believe it's sort of, and I sell some of it on Etsy and people love it. So look for my homemade bondage stuff I've

learned. What's the name of your Etsy shop? I know this is bad improv, but fuck you. I don't know what it is. Oh my God. Tell us what's the name of that improv shop. I don't know. Not only do I not know, but I'm going to slam you, gorely. Fuck you. Well, no, I just, you get angry at us and now you do this. That's, that's the kind of improv I like to do is get up on stage and someone, I walk out on stage and my partner in the scene says, Oh, I love your candy shop. What kind of candy do you have? And I go, I don't know. Fuck it. And then just walk off. And then the curtain comes down. By the way, episode 99 was Sam Richardson. Oh, great. Wonderful. I love Sam Richardson. Okay. Now we answer the question. I still do everything you ask me to do when I remember to do it. Yes.

Thank you. Thank you for that. I mean, it's very sweet. She thinks I'm famous, but I'm absolutely not. No, but I've heard you on the phone if you are on the phone taking care of something for me. I've heard you say yes. Yes. This is Sona. Yes. That's Sona. Yes. Yes. I'm a bad assistant. Yes. He needs his butt plugs. I don't like these bits. Fuck you. Fuck you. Once again, I don't need butt plugs from anyone. I manufacture my own. Oh, no. They're made out of endangered ivory to really enrage people. Endangered ivory. Yes. Ivory from around the world that's illegal and endangered. I have animals slaughtered for my homemade butt plugs. So I can sell them at my bondage store on Etsy that's called Fuck You Gorley.

Yeah. I like to make things myself. I'm very handy when it comes to the sensual arts making crafts. Artisanal butt plugs. You're very handy. Artisanal butt plugs. Yes. You know how I know you're not good at like building a lot of things because you build that stop with camel and you wouldn't stop talking about it for like four months? I know. That's probably us. Did you ever finish that? I did. I did finish it. It's very good looking. It's sitting on my desk right now. In fact, I'm looking at it and it's gorgeous. I put a lot of time into it. It is. It's a 1917. Sony, you've seen it. It is. It's awesome. And kudos to you, Sona, for remembering the name. That's pretty. I know. Well,

he said it so many times and that's like if someone builds things all the time, they don't talk about it constantly. Okay. So this is a true story. I years and years and years ago got this small house in Connecticut that was like the first thing I ever bought and I would go up there. I'll never forget. There was this handyman around and he said, do you need anything? And I said, yes, I need a workbench. And the guy said, okay, I'll get you. I'll find you a workbench. And I said, yes, and I'll need a vice to hold on to things while I'm fixing them. And he went, right, I'll put a, I'll buy a vice and I'll put it in the, you know, work shed, you know, attach it to the workbench. And I went, good, good. And I'll need a hammer and a saw. And he went, great.

And so whatever flash forward, he gets all that stuff and I look at it and remember the day it's the, the vice is this metal vice and it's sort of a bright industrial blue and you turn the crank and it goes out and then it goes in again, you know, and you're like, yes, I've got my vice. I'm ready for my work. Flash forward 15 years. And my son, who at the time is like 10 says, hey, what's the deal with this bench and this vice? And I went, I need that for my, when I do my work around the house, when I do my repairs and I fix things. And he said this, and he pointed to it, has never been used. And he peeled off some plastic that was on the handle that you would feel if you even once turned the handle, which I never did. And so I have this,

I mean, you could eat sushi off this thing and there wouldn't be one microbe on it. It was, it's to this day, the most pristine, you can't find a vice in a hardware store that's brand new and sealed in loose site that's cleaner and less used than the vice that's sitting in my little, little house in Connecticut. It's just gleaming like a jewel. So I'm an ass. I think that's what we've learned. Yeah. I've never fixed anything. I don't really use a vice and it's sad. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sonam of Sessian and Conan O'Brien as himself. Produced by me, Matt Gorley, executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Salataroff and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf, theme song by the White Stripes,

incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. The show is engineered by Will Beckton. You can rate and review this show on Apple podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.