Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Bryan Cranston Returns

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Actor Bryan Cranston feels stimulated about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Bryan sits down with Conan once more to dive into the details of his wild first sexual encounter in Salzburg, transitioning from physical comedy in Malcolm in the Middle to the high-stakes drama of Breaking Bad, how kindness and hard work are the key to a satisfying career, and the upcoming season 2 of Your Honor. Plus, Conan regretfully comes to terms with how Joop! cologne has impacted his life.

Hi, my name is Brian Cranston. And I feel stimulated to being on, to being, to about being, I just can't say it. I think you just couldn't get beyond stimulated. Hey, Conan O'Brien here. Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, sitting here with Sonam of Sessian. Hi. You were staring very intently at your glass of water. I was trying not to be loud about it. I feel like I'm very like loud when I do things, so I'm trying to be very gentle.

No, but you were down and you were staring into the glass and kind of a- I don't know, I zoned out. I think I zoned out first. I think you completely zoned out. I don't even think you realized you were in studio. Right. And how are you, Matt Gorley? I'm fine. He's just staring at a pen.

Guys, we've got to be on the ball. People listen to this podcast because of our razor sharp repartee. They do? That way? No. No. Wait, I forgot what we did. Yeah.

No, it's not for that reason. What about all the research we do before each podcast? Use all the prep, the meetings, when we talk about what we're going to say. You know, it'd be really funny if we revealed that we met for a whole day beforehand and worked out in great detail the nonsense that we were going to discuss. It's all scripted. Oh, and it's all meticulously laid out and it's storyboarded. It's storyboarded.

And then there were little moments where you're supposed to say, yeah, I'd buy that with an onion, you know, and then, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, you say that line? Yeah, I'd buy that with an onion. Yeah. Then we get another take. That's pretty good.

Was it? Yeah. We also hire actors so we can watch this thing ahead of time and make notes and changes. You know what this is becoming? It's a lot like Nathan Fielder, his show where the rehearsal, I'm a huge Nathan Fielder fan and I would love it. I would love to see him hire actors to listen to a lot of our podcasts and then try and recreate us talking.

And then, of course, Nathan's there with his pad of paper or his notebook, his computer, studying, trying to crack the great mystery that is three idiots. Basically killing some time. That's true. I would not work well if we had to plan anything, though. If we actually sat down and thought about the things that we were going to say, I don't think I could. I'd walk out.

You're pretty chill. Now, let me ask you a question. Are you a chill mom? Because I've known you for a long time and then you have these beautiful boys now, these twin boys, Mikey and Charlie. And I'm wondering, give us a read on what kind of mom you are. Are you a mom who's like, it's all good? So we ate a gummy.

What's the big deal? Oh, God. No, I am. I am a very like, you know, let them live and explore. And like, that's their journey. That's the highway. They should walk around it and take a look at stuff. You know, there are lines like, you know,

I don't let them walk into oncoming traffic if that's what you're saying. Okay. Yeah. No, the point is keep them alive. Yeah. But I'm not like, oh, they dropped. They dropped this. I must wash it thoroughly with soap and water.

And well, who are you doing? I don't think Gourley. I mean, you might be that kind of guy. Are you that guy? You're not that guy. No, I think Amanda's a little more chill than me for those things. But yeah, I'm not a helicopter parent. We let our kid kind of ping off the walls like a Roomba.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you? I'm not, but my wife has hired private detectives. Lots of them. For your kids? For our, just to follow our kids around.

Really? Yeah. She's always getting reports. You're worried that they're cheating on you with other parents? Yeah. There's pictures of them meeting with these other parents who actually looked them in the eye when they talked to him. And don't discuss their career and show business.

Yes, odd nauseam. They look, frankly, they look very happy in these photos. They look very happy. They go there. They all eat a nice, lovely meal together. And the father asked them about them. Doesn't seem to monologue incessantly about his podcast and his next move in the business.

We're clearly your new children then. Yeah, I'm just sitting here thinking, I know what that's like. I've really never been like, Hey guys, watch this sketch I did. That was really funny. No, that was not going well. Literally because you just did that to us earlier today. No, you guys are different.

Oh, okay. You work for me. You have to do. And you're going to watch more. Eduardo, queue up 75 sketches I worked on for SNL that are at best a B or a B plus. But what if they're like, Oh my God, I love Brad Pitt. You're like, well, I did a bit with him years ago

during late night. Here it is. Look how cool I am. No, they're not. And this is, I shout out. I mean, I really love my kids for this there. I think on some deep, deep, deep level that could only be found on an MRI, proud of me.

But, or, you know, they think, okay, he's, you know, he's paying the rent. Good for him. You guys are retting, huh? Yeah, yeah, we are. Too bad. I made some bad investments. Anyway,

I can make it. I just can't hold on to it. I love the ponies. I'm always at the track. Be great if you saw me every week at the track. And I'm always walking out at Santa Anita and I'm always tearing up tickets angrily. And I'm wearing a rumpled shirt and a crappy pork pie hat.

That's what I pictured. Exactly what I pictured. Yeah. And I'm just, I'm just mad. I'm, I was there. Two dollars a race. Yeah, two dollars a race. And then just chewing out someone who gave me the bum tip,

screaming at jockeys when they're trying to get to their car. And horse had gone faster. They put a bank safe in the saddle. Sure, we really don't need to take this abuse. Yeah. So that's, that's me. That's me. No, but I, I, yeah, I give them a lot of credit because they,

they, they are not, they are certainly not sick of fence about my work, which is really nice. That's nice. You know, you've, but you've done like, I mean, you're, I know Beckett's into the Simpsons. Like you've probably shown him like the monorail episode. Well, I didn't, that was nice because he found that on his own. Oh, okay.

So he just was into the Simpsons and I didn't really say anything about it. And then I think one day he saw my name. He didn't know. Oh, that's amazing. Might have known, but it's interesting. He found the Simpsons pretty young and it's not, I, I don't walk around saying, you know what I used to do

because my wife won't allow it. Not cause I don't want to. She really. I can't wait for my daughter to find my James Bond podcasts and really be floored. She will be though. She will be. There's a certain age where they're proud of you

cause you're the only parent they had, you know? What? I'm sorry, but soon or later my kids are, my kids are just going to have to go, that's the dad we got. You go to war with the army you got. Exactly. Exactly. That's the dad we were handed by a cruel arbitrary God.

And then they'll find little things about me that were, you know, that were okay. So. Yeah, I'm sure they will. Yeah. Now they will. Of course they will. Yeah, yeah.

What are we talking about here? I don't know. I think they will. I don't want my kids to see or do anything that I've ever done. Well, you wrote a book about pretty much where you laid bare your work ethic and some of your misadventures. What about when your kids find that book? I know.

And then like, you know, World's Worst Assistant by Sonam of Sassan. Available in bookstores everywhere, you know? New York Times. It's a New York Times bestseller. You can get it for the holidays or after the holidays. You could have gotten it for the holidays. Yeah, I'm sure you got it for the holidays.

Yeah, yeah. So, but the point is, how do you feel about the day when Mikey and Charlie are walking through a bookstore and they see that book? Because it'll be in print as long as Catch-22 by Joseph Heller. Okay. No, it won't. But I think there's going to be, like, you know,

there's me talking about weed and dating boys, but by then they might not even care about that stuff. That's a whole different generation. There'll be no dating in the future, I think. It's going to be, everyone's going to just sort of, I think sexes are going away. I think we're all just going to be, and sex is going to go away.

We're just going to replicate using various machines. Are you talking about your own life? I know. What is this? Are you projecting? Yeah. This is Christ. Yeah, and we're going to get real depressed.

Or we're going to watch our old stuff from the 90s alone. Because your kids won't watch it. Yeah, where you're sitting next to a young Andy Rector. Wait, this isn't me. I'm talking in broad, general terms about what's going to happen to civilization as we go forward. You're going to start taking those pills you found in the park. Anyway, we got to get going.

We got a lot of show today. Can't be babbling on like this when we have a man of this stature here. I know. He's cool. We'll just say, yeah, he too is cool. No, he is. Now, he's cool. Now, that guy's cool.

Now, that guy can happily show his kids what he's done. I bet they're just clamoring to see what he's done. He is also cool. He is. No, that's not cool. Now, that guy. You're not listening. You know, my guest today is an Emmy and Tony Award-winning actor.

Okay, so he's got an Emmy and a Tony. He's an it. A what? He's an it. What happens when you, what do you do when I'll get when you have everything? He got. He got. Does that include Latin Grammys?

Well, maybe. I mean, it's a Grammy. Yeah. My guest today is an Emmy and Tony Award-winning actor who played Walter White on the AMC series Breaking Bad. I think I just gave it away. Now you can see him in the second season of the critically acclaimed Showtime series, Your Honor Thrilled.

He's with us today. Brian Cranston. Welcome. Once you said stimulated the whole atmosphere in the room changed. Yeah, stimmy. Stimmy. It's a stim. Stimmy stim.

Stimmy stimulation for Brian Cranston, to Conan O'Brien's friend. I think that's Conan O'Brien's friend. That's where I stumbled. Cruel. Yeah, cruel and unnecessary. A man of your stature. No, because I haven't entered into the pantion of that. My great friends.

Brotherhood, yes. Like Sona and Matt. Yes. What does that mean? Well, I'm sorry. Towering figures. And we're not your friends. Let's be friends.

Oh, well. You're paid to be my friends. Like a hooker. It's a similar relationship. Assistant. Yeah. Adam's like the pimp. Yeah.

Oh, it's true. Look, it's the world's oldest profession. Oh, so I'm told. Yes, sweetheart. Ever had any experience? You didn't. I did. You did?

Yeah. Let's get into it. Brian Cranston, you were with a Lady of the Evening once, huh? Yes. I was a virgin. And I was traveling with a bunch of friends in Europe. I was 16 years old. Oh, my God.

And it was the thing to do. And I was actually looking forward to it. And nervous as hell. Of course. I'm 16. Yeah. And a bunch of friends who we were out together and said, we're going to do this.

Let's go. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, sure, let's go. Oh, my God. And we go to this, the Red Light District in Salzburg, Austria. Whoa. OK. And my two older friends, they were about a year and a half older than me.

And they're going in and I started to get cold feet. And I said, I don't think I brought enough money. I don't think I have enough Austrian francs to be able to make this transaction. Sure. And they both made their deals and they went upstairs. And I said, no, I don't have the money or trying to indicate in the universal language. Right. Don't have it or whatever.

And I sat down in the foyer and then this woman came up to me. And everyone's older than you when you're 16. Yes. I could not tell you how old she was. She came up and she was indicated in my pockets. I go, oh, no, no, see. And she said, I'll show you that I don't have enough. See, that's just not like this is nothing.

This is not. And she grabbed the money and grabbed my hands and like, oh, my Lord. And I went, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, this is happening. This is happening. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. And we go into this room. There's a single bed. There's a sink and a trash can.

That's it. Oh, Jesus. So I had just, and she goes, you know, she points to my clothes like that and like this. She's preparing herself. And she really sets the mood. Oh, my God. My penis would be up inside my body at this point. It would have retracted into my left lung to have its little arms crossed.

Oh, you are a woman. You are a woman. No, I swear, I swear. Yeah. So then I had to stand up while taking my clothes off and I put it on a hook. And she goes, oh, come on. And I knew it was like, oh, my God, I was so nervous that I didn't really feel anything. I was just, my brain was on fire.

And at one point I thought, oh, I should, I should touch your breasts. Just one of them. It's like diffusing a bomb. Don't touch the wrong one. Clip the red wire. Not the blue one. And it was, it was like, which one should I touch? I don't, I don't know.

And so I just touched one of her breasts and all of a sudden I just felt her hand slap mine. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Just, she slapped my hand to take my hand off her breast. So, yeah, because that was out of bounds. You didn't pay enough. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's true. Exactly right.

That's probably it. Like, no, no, no, you get this McDonald's meal. But you don't get the extra large fries and you don't get the shake. Yeah. And there's no prize. Yeah. So the deed was done. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. 16. Yeah. And then, of course, out I go and my friends were coming down the stairs and, of course, I was smoking my imaginary cigarette. How was yours? But I say that it was like, it was a traumatic and a great exhilarating memorable experience,

man. It was, it was a seminal moment in a, in a person's life when they lose their virginity. Yeah. Yeah. I've been going back to Austria every day. I know. Brian, I'm looking here. It says that you've shot your last seven movies in Austria in Salzburg.

Yeah, it's such a beautiful place, though, Conan. And the exchange rate is really good. Very talented crews. Yeah. You're often seen with a now 110-year-old woman walking hand-in-hand in the marketplace. Please don't address Heidi that way. She is very sensitive. Heidi Redbust?

I've seen her. Wow. Wow. Wow. You know what I loved about that? We were just starting to chat. Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't get us there.

There was some joke and then, We were called prostitutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a really funny joke. And then Brian just like, well, you're going to drag it out of me. I was one of the Watergate co-conspiratives.

What? Well, you know, you are, I mean, my hats off to you because you are, you're adventurous. I think if you were in Europe in 16, I wasn't traveling around Europe when I was 16 years old and taking chances like that. I mean, was this always you? This is who you were? Yeah. Yeah. I was born and raised in a suburb of LA and we didn't have any money.

As a matter of fact, when I was 12, they posted a sign on our door for eviction because we couldn't pay our mortgage. And we had a, my parents had a very nasty separation. And I think it propelled me into high gear. If you were lulled into a nice environment and loving parents and everything, you can kind of take your time growing up. Yep. And I think it was like, now, do it now.

You need to pay attention because all hell is breaking loose all around you. And so you're kind of hyper aware of things and still making tremendous amount of mistakes. But you're making, you're making them. Right. I was thinking about you today, obviously very excited that you were going to come in and talk because every time I talk to you is, it's a joy, but there was this quote that I came across that really resonates with me and I'm sure you've heard it, but it's Aaron Paul. And he said that you're one of the most professional people he's ever worked with.

But you're also the most immature person he's ever worked with. And I thought, there is something about you that beautifully is able to contain both. And I believe that I like to think that I'm professional. I'm also a complete fool. And somehow I think it's possible to contain the two at the same time. Is that making sense to you? I think so. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

I think you can be sincere and have the things you want to set up in your life and enjoy it. Don't take it too seriously. Don't feel you're entitled to anything. You're very lucky. And I think if you flow with that, you get a chance to have fun and goof around. But I think it depends on how you were raised and the principles that you stand by. I really do. I tell actors all the time, get your personal life in order.

If you really want to be an actor, you have to get your personal life in order so that you don't flake out. If you get your first job and you have a nice big paycheck, don't go blow it on something. Put it away so that the more sustain you. So the longer you can be an actor and make a living in it. That's so fascinating because I think there are probably a lot of young actors out there that think the other way. There are people that think in order to be a great artist, I must act like a maniac because the tailwags, the dog, what doesn't. You just need to be good at what you do at your career. You need to be good at what you do at your craft.

You need to keep it together. But I think there are a lot of people that don't think that way. You know what I mean? That think, yeah, I'm in my 20s. I'm starting to make some money. Gravity is starting to lift. Everyone's treating me really nicely. It's time to fuck up.

Well, it's like especially with men. Men are just boys that can shave. Yeah. Because... Wow. Wow, you really... I'm going to take that one on the road. You really got to Sona on that one.

Sona, how's the marriage? It's so funny. It was true because we're very... We're stimulated physically. We see a car. We see a beautiful person, male or female. Look at that. Look at these things.

We sometimes act upon it. We look as a boy. Oh, I want that chocolate. I want that thing. As men, you have to look at it and go, I want that chocolate. But if I grab that chocolate, I'm going to feel such and such after.

I want that woman. But I am married and I need to not do that. You have to think of consequences behind every decision. That's basically the difference between a man and a boy. Yeah, it's funny because I know that I've known Bob Odenkirk forever

and he gives you a lot of credit for helping him when he was starting out in his role on Breaking Bad and he said that you were very good at telling him you got to know your lines, you got to hit your mark,

you got to do the work beforehand and that was your introduction to acting for him. We've got to get your shit together before you go out there. I've heard all kinds of stories over the years in this business, mostly behind the scenes

about very well-known actors that don't do that. They don't know their lines. You'd be surprised. Yes, and they're hanging out in their trailer for a while and they're not just doing the work. And I think one of the times

there's so much pride in the fact that you've been a working actor really your entire life, the most part of your life. And it's such a nice way to break it down because we can all get existential about our career

or where are we now. You're working, you're working, you're making things, you're paying your mortgage. It's a great way to, I think, kind of simplify it. The business that you love to do, a creative one,

and you make a living, I don't want to hear a complaint out of you. I don't want to hear that you have to be here at six o'clock in the morning. We're acting. Look at us. So every job that I work on where I lead the cast, I try to set that example

so that I don't want to hear any complaints from anyone. There's enough artistic frustration within. You need to recast because this didn't work out. There's enough problems to deal with. You should not be dealing with any kind of problems of

I don't want to be here that early or how late do we have to stay or some actors who don't want to be off-camera for another actor. It's like, I started that when I was really young. Jennifer O'Neill, do you remember Jennifer O'Neill?

Sure. Summer of 42, beautiful, beautiful woman. I was a guest star on a show that she did called Cover Up. Was it Cover Up? I think it was. And I had this big emotional scene. It was the De Numeau.

Here it was. Here's what happened. Here's why it happened and how it happened. And it's with her. And we came back from lunch and the director said, Jennifer is still having lunch with someone in the commissary.

You're side of it now with the script supervisor reading it off-camera. And I said, this is a big scene. I wouldn't mind if it was just a couple little lines and not a big deal, not an emotional thing.

But this is a big deal. So I don't think so. I don't think we should do that. And they said, excuse me? I said, no, I think we should wait for her then, don't you think? And they said, well,

I don't know if we should. And I said, no, I think it's important enough to wait for her to get this right. And so they had to wait for her. That's great. You had, again, this is a testament to you're very young at this point. You haven't made it.

No, I was 27. You're not Brian Cranston yet. You're an early form of Brian Cranston. You're the beta. And to say that, because I haven't done much work in that world, but what little I've done,

it's immediately clear that they shoot you in your scene where you're yelling at me and then they turn around and they shoot me getting yelled at by you. And if you're out for that scene and they're just hanging a tennis ball there,

pretend the tennis ball is Brian, it's very hard to do your thing. Not really, because that tennis ball probably gives you as much emotion as I would give you. And as much respect. I practiced this whole interview with a tennis

ball. It was good, wasn't it? Yeah, but we're not speaking anymore. The tennis ball is filing a complaint. Cancelled by a tennis ball. That would be the lowest. You know, it's so funny because

you've done so much work, obviously breaking bad and the work you're doing on your honor and you've done, I saw you on Broadway as Lyndon Johnson and you killed it and it was just

so you've sort of conquered all these different worlds and I always go back to, it's funny, right now and then I run into Malcolm in the middle and it's one of the funniest performances I've seen on television.

You as Hal and it's a very particular kind of almost cartoonish energy. I'm not even going to say almost, that you're bringing to that role and there are so many little ticks but the physicality of it is absolutely hilarious

and so I came to that show later, I think when Malcolm in the middle was really hitting on all cylinders, I'm working on the late night show and I'm thinking, well that's a family show for kids. I'm not really paying attention and then I went back and I started seeing some of them later on

and reruns and then I started noticing that there are fans that do like mashups of all of your most amazing sequences. I can watch those forever. I can watch those forever because I maintain that your shriek as Hal is one of the funniest things

I've ever seen and also you run away funnier than anyone in comedy, I think. Your run away is absolutely delightful. Does that make sense to you, your run away? Want to see it?

There are so many scenes where Hal is against it and you decide to run away and you do this thing where every part of your body is moving kind of incorrectly. It's like there's 35 cats

inside a person's suit trying to run away and it is so hilarious. That's the kind of stuff I think physical comedy when people can nail that, I think you're in a just high stratosphere that most people don't get to experience.

I can watch that stuff forever. That was an interesting job for me because everything else was cast. The entire family was already cast and they couldn't find the dad. In the pilot episode I think I have three or four lines and that's it.

I was trying to find the core of every character that I do. I look for what's at the emotional center of this person and I'm looking for different ways and I finally came across it and I realized oh well, just keep this

simple. I wrote down all the qualities that the Jane Kasmerick character played Lois had. Fierce. Tough. Resilient. I go, oh, fierce. Wimp.

Tough. Soft. Resilient. Cracks immediately. I just went the complete opposite. One that I came to was fearless and I went oh, he's frightened.

That's it. He's frightened of everything and so once I grabbed onto that, everything in his life he's frightened about being fired, about being a bad parent, about his wife leaving him, about spiders, about heights.

He's frightened about everything and from that point everything kind of grew. And where did the shriek come from? Because it's... So much fun. There was a sequence I saw once where you've gotten into... what is it called, race walking?

You've gotten into race walking and you think someone else is more jogging than race walking. One of your teammates are competitors and you accuse him and then he panics and he tries to go away and you say, don't worry, I've got this and you start race walking after him when you could

just run. And I look at it and I am not some people say, well, to really see classic comedy, you need to look back at Chaplin and you need to look at Laurel and Herney. I think yes, definitely

true, but you see it all over the place. You just have to be looking for it. There are people that can see it. And obviously that was a really great idea. So I give the writer's credit, the director. But that character is one of the funniest characters in

television, I think. It still endures. You know, it's so... I haven't seen it in ages though. I hope it does. And I have new generations of people coming up to me because it plays on Disney Channel, I think. And they said, my kids are now watching it.

I loved it. When I was getting now, my kids are watching this and it's like, man, that's good when it can endure. What's also fascinating that you could be Hal, and then you can be Walter White. And I know that I think one of the things that

I always realized is there's great comedy. It's a different kind of comedy. It can be very dark. But there's really funny moments between you and Aaron Paul. There's really funny moments in your life trying to make this transformation, and go through this.

But if you look at the work that you're doing on Malcolm in the middle and you're taking it, you're playing way up that end of the neck on the guitar. And then you look at the finale of Breaking Bad and you see where you've gone and you think it's impossible to imagine.

It's crazy. It's a crazy range. And in this town, most people want to be able to place you as doing something. Like a comedy guy. I never get that. You never get that.

I get he's trying really hard. And he's well intentioned. That's what I was been pigeonholed into. No, but exactly, yeah. They want to pigeon hold you in that. So I did seven years of Malcolm in the middle, and it was great. And out of that,

I had a couple offers to do. A sweet goofy dad on a sitcom right after that. And I thought how could I do something different at this moment? It's so ingrained. I need to completely step away from that world. So easily said no to that.

And later that year, same year, I got a notice. I said, well, you did an episode of X-Files about nine years ago before Malcolm in the middle. And the writer of that episode, Vince Gilligan would like to see you about this show

called Breaking Bad. Do you remember him? He said, no. I don't. Hard pass. I'm not going to go audition. And I said, sure. And I read it, and it was

just incredible. And what Vince did, and what he said he wanted to do at the outset is he wanted to change the main character throughout the course of the series, which has never been done on this series television. If you look

at Archie Bunker or Tony Soprano or whomever, they are the same people. They react to different stimulus, but they are the same person, whereas Walter White was going to change from

a good, honest guy to becoming a killer. As Vince Gilligan often says, he says, I just want to see if I can change a guy from chips to Scarface. They're not going to let me. I know they're just not going to let me do it, but

we'll see what we can do. He's such a sweet, unassuming guy, Vince Gilligan. I've had the joy of hanging with him a little bit, and you would never sense that he was the creative center of, you know, the best TV

show ever. He doesn't act that way. If I had achieved what he had achieved, I'd be wearing an admiral's hat. I'd have epaulets. I'd have epaulets. I'd be carried around in one of those chairs. I would let everyone know.

But it's really amazing. It's funny because you probably heard this from a lot of people. I went back because my son never saw Breaking Bad. He was too young, but we started watching it together, and I went back to the beginning,

and it's mind-blowing because I know the transition that's going to happen because I've watched every episode of the show when it was on, but now I'm starting again, and I still can't believe it's going to happen. You know what I mean? You still think, no, no, no. On some level,

you know, I don't see how that could possibly happen, yet there's not a false note along the way. And, you know, it's that old saying that a whatever, a curve is an infinite number of straight lines.

That it's like, no, it is possible. You just have to make sure that the changes are very subtle, and each one has to be earned. It has to be earned, and I think that's what's magical about that is everything Walter White does is earned. Yes, and that's

the writing. It is the writing. It's, I will always say this because an actor gets inspired through great writing, and an actor can only perform so much. If an actor got B level

material working at his or her best, I do believe I could get it up a grade level, but if I got C level material, you're getting a B out of me. That's as far as you can go. It just, it really does

take incredible writing. If you get A level material, you treat it like the Holy Grail. It's like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Just don't screw this up. You know, just, oh my god. And men breaking bad was like that. You're turning the pages and going,

oh my god. I cannot believe he's doing this. Oh my god. And yet, it's not an aberration. It's something that was set up if you were attentive to it.

It does track if you go back and still it's surprising to you. What's it like then these number of years later and it's hard to believe it's been how many years has it been since Breaking Bad and has it been eight years? You're looking off. You could look at me.

Have Walter White right here and you're looking at me. Does no one know how... Ryan, wait here. I'm going to try and find out. Wait. I'll be back. Conan, I can tell you. I'll head this way. How many years has it been? I don't know.

God! Damn you! Damn you! Oh, god. Yeah, to 1813. So that's been, it's someone do the math. Nine. Well, it depends

on when this airs. That's true. We're holding onto this for a few years. I think people need to be ready for this interview. The way it started, they really need to be prepared. We need to clear things up. Yeah, nine years so far. But when you go back, as you've

done, and I don't think I'm spoiling anything here, to pick up and have these moments in Better Call Saul, does it feel like you're putting on an old suit? It does. It feels like that. Yep. It's slipping.

You know how for an actor, when you sit in the chair and you start putting on the makeup and you start looking at it, when I did the HBO movie All the Way where I played LBJ, it took three hours of prosthetic makeup

three hours every morning. And although I used it as my preparation into getting into that headspace to play that guy, that big boisterous domineering man, and I can see the transformation

happening when I'm looking in the mirror and they're applying all the extra nose and the ears and the things and pretty soon you start talking like this and god damn it, get out of here. Where's my soda? And start poking people and you become that guy.

It really helped. Same thing with even putting on Walter White's desert boots and his khakis shirts, his long sleeve shirt and that very, very iconic pork pie hat of his

and there he is and you go I know what this feels like and then you kind of, it just kind of helps you slip into that character. That's incredible. I mean, because all this time has gone by and you've done all these other things and the fact

that you can access it, which I imagine is that's the craft. Well, I imagine, but think for a comedy tour that you did and a routine and if someone said remember this and you go

oh yeah, yeah, yeah and remember this and remember this and then you might pick up on it and go and then I did this and I remember that and you start, it starts ticking away at your brain and your memory starts coming back and you start to be able to recite certain lines from it.

You're going to be rusty like you are in most of your shows. You know, first of all, you're not wrong. I'm not going after you for being wrong but saying it out loud seems cruel and unusual. I wanted to ask you about that.

You're talking about you had a live audience for many, many, many years. 28 years. 28 years. Was it like when you stopped having that live audience even though it was tiring to get that going all the time? Did it feel like you fell

off a cliff? Did it feel like you stumbled a little bit? It's funny. My honest, most sincere memory is I knew this needs to stop and I've done this a very long time. I've done this every

which way I can think of in this specific format and I still think we're doing some good work but this is a good time to stop it. This is a good time. I'd like to decide to move out of my home and move into a condo

before they come and take me out. But it wasn't even that. It was just this feeling of so yes, very much the only thing I missed there's a lot I didn't miss but I missed the daily interaction with writers, comedy writers

but there are other ways to get that that I can do now. There are other ways to work with creative people without having to do a show every day for an hour. The other thing I missed was the audiences but I found

my wife will tell you walk around with Conan and when people stop him and talk to him I do a show because I enjoy it. It's like what I like to do. I really try and make people happy.

There's another way to do that. There are all avenues that I'm exploring where I can still get that fix for lack of a better term without being part of a machine that's doing that kind of volume business. It's funny. I didn't feel

the day after our last show phone rang and I picked it up and it was Bob Newhart. I just wanted to congratulate you. That was a great run and you did a great job. I was

tearing up and crying and I got off the phone and thought I'm the luckiest person in the world to get a call from Bob Newhart. It turned out later on it wasn't Bob Newhart. It was me impersonating him. It was you and it was a prank

that you were doing on a radio show. It was really funny. I listen to it now and the Newhart isn't even that good. Bob Newhart here, see? But I'm so needy that I believe... But anyway, you have those moments where you think

that was fantastic and it's like you say you really can't have any complaints in this business. When you brought that up it reminded me of when I first was working in television

and I was a writer on Saturday Night Live. There was a writer strike was announced and I'm so lean and hungry, literally very lean and literally very hungry and I've got this great job and suddenly we're being told you all have to go on the picket line

and stand up for the Writers Guild. I remember it fought my nature a little bit because I thought I don't want to look like I'm complaining because this is the greatest thing that ever happened but I also understood that this was imperative and you got to support the Writers Guild and this is... So they gave us these signs to hold

and the logo was a graphic of a manual... like an old 1920s typewriter with a big ghostbuster slash over it like we're not going to write and I was walking around with these signs feeling really self-conscious

because people on the picket line they knew well what does a working writer get? You guys get a lot of money, right? We do get a lot of money. So what is this all about and there were legitimate things but not that you would explain on a picket line like 24 and walking and holding this sign and then being horrified

because someone stopped me and said wait so you guys are upset that you can't use electric typewriters? That's not fair! And I was like it's not fair! Why should I use a 1920s underwood? But I remembered feeling conflicted

about complaining but of course these things all have to balance out. They have to balance out and there are things that need to be corrected but my attitude early on very much was I'll do this for free! I just love being a comedy writer

and you know you're not supposed to say that out loud. So now doing the podcast you still, you know you have an audience but you don't hear them so you just have to imagine that you're connecting in with it. But you know it's nice and you've seen this Matt, I know you've seen it Sonica's

when we walk around and Paul has seen it Paula Davis when we walk around whether it's in New York City or so many people come up and they say I listen to it, I listen to it in COVID, it helped me so I'm constantly

getting feedback. And it's not just because you're wearing the sandwich sign right? It says please compliment me? Please talk to me. Yeah, I will pay for compliments. It is. I walk around I go to the ATM every 10 minutes and I will give people $30

or something nice. Cause we don't even put this podcast out, we tell you. This is all for you. So these are actors that you're hiring? Yeah. Incredible. They're very good. Although I was pretty sure I recognized Johnny Depp he needed work.

Yeah, and then we do some live ones and we do a live one they sell out, there's a lot of people there and they're very excited and they know they know me but they are like so excited to see Sona they're so excited to see Matt, they know our rhythms, they know

the bit players, anyone who is tangentially involved in any way with the podcast and so we do get that affirmation which is really nice. This is fun. Yeah. And you travel, you travel with the show around the country a little bit? We've done some. Yeah, we've done some shows here and

we just did two shows at the Beacon Theater City and Stephen Colbert did the first one and Tracy Morgan did the second one as surprise guest and it was just a party. Fun. With no alcohol

or any. But is that a really a party then? And really no joy. And not one laugh. You know, kind of like a Soviet party. There's something that you mentioned Steven. I was on Steven's show when I was doing my last

Broadway play Network. I saw that live and you saw him sat in my friend Mark's lap because he used to go out in the audience. Oh yeah. It was amazing. That wasn't part of the show. Out of context. That sounds like you sat in my friend's Mark's lap. He was

part of the show. Prostitute in Europe. Yes. He looks great. Yeah, part of the show was that at a certain point I would come down into the audience and I would sit down among them and just have. It was fun. I went on Steven's show

and we're talking about the differences between doing live television and doing theater and I said, it occurred to me at that moment I said, well it's interesting because what we do in theater is tell the same story to a new audience.

You tell a new story to the same audience. So it still has its responsibilities and difficulties and challenges for us doing theater and doing hundreds of performances. How do you keep that fresh?

How do you keep leaning in? You have to understand and accept not only is it your job and responsibility but these people who paid good money have not heard this story. So you get to break it to them and that gives you some juice to go on and you just have to kind of lean in

and then you get into a rhythm and you flow with it. I've always thought for myself because when I look at you, anyone of your ilk who's up on a stage owning it in a Broadway theater, I always think this would be the greatest

show business feeling in the world because in the world I've worked in and again, I've been extremely lucky but when I go to a show and I saw Hamilton for the first time and John Groff comes out

as King George and he has a very small part but it's fantastic and he destroys and I remember telling him I went backstage and I'm talking to Lin-Manuel Miranda and I'm talking to the different people

and just telling them how much I love the show and I told John Groff, I was just saying I'm so envious of you because I would love it if there was a time apart from me on Broadway where I get to come out maybe 25 minutes into the show

kill, absolutely kill and then go backstage and eat a giant sandwich and people are like Conan was great but it's surprising he's only on stage for six minutes halfway through but I would make such a and I'd be a total over-the-top ham

and I thought what a joy that would be and what an incredibly privileged selfish thing to ask for could someone out there please write that they're still doing Hamilton, why don't you audition for that role audition?

did you say audition? I don't audition come on talk show host of course we can just become theater actors overnight yeah I think one of those crazy stunt castings but yeah and I wanted to talk to you about

I was able through my connections in the biz uh I don't know what biz actually oh it's biz no it's an accounting firm I got to watch the uh

opening because I watched the first season of your honor and I do love it and then I got to watch the opening show of the second season which was made available to me how is that possible you got it for me really?

and it's terribly edited they really rushed it he needs it now but that opening scene where you're and I don't want to give anything away because it hasn't come out yet but what your character has gone through that is a

memorable scene that the second season opens so you're saying something that I can't even comment you can't even comment I'm just saying but I understand what you mean people out there is you need to catch up on your honor if you haven't and then this first episode I thought

which is coming out soon was riveting and it's the same thing where it is a little bit evocative of stuff you've done before where you're starting out in one place and then we're seeing your character get pulled like a piece of

metal to the point where it's a wire and it's quivering and you think is this going to break at any moment it's a very descriptive way of putting it I like that I was a metallurgist for a while I guess they'll tell you, Matt'll tell you

all my whenever I make any kind of illusion at all it's usually two it's like when you take copper and you pound it and then you apply some cold water he only knows metal analogies and it acts as a conduit too

and then you can access other it's a little like brass yeah it's insufferable yeah it's terrible I apologize but kids study metallurgy and then you can get into comedy you are the vertigray of my

yeah it's fun the people at Showtime are just enormously supportive and they gave us the tools and the time to be able to create the second season of Your Honor the way frankly I wanted to do it yeah it's great too

because my favorite shows are the ones where it's not always clear who I should be rooting for because there's it's a way that TV has I think improved so much since the TV you know when we were growing up

television was good guy yeah oh the bad guys are coming it's getting tense good guy wins credits and I think obviously we've evolved to this place

where people that I understand their motivations I like them but I'm also horrified by what they're doing I'm not sure I agree with all these choices but I understand why they're making them and I think we've come a long way since happy days

but the old formula was nothing can ever change the fawns is always the fawns Richie is always Richie and this is how it is and that's the way people find comfort in that and there are still procedures that people do

find very comfortable they are presented with a problem that our hero is going to solve by the end of the episode and they do I don't particularly find that very entertaining it's so kind of black and white and

but it's the serialized shows that go deep into it and I think younger generation the generation now that is coming up from college or whatever they're far more sophisticated and they demand more

in their entertainment and you cannot serve them the same old dish that they had before they won't take it you have to rise to their level of expectations and we were fed pablum in those days

it's like this is what you have it's Hawaii 5.0 it's that driving music and it's like something exciting is going to happen and then it doesn't and it's like oh well the other thing is I sound like a guy describing the Great Depression

but by no stretch of the imagination there was a difficult childhood but there were three networks and so there was very little competition they were all pretty much making the same stuff and the third place network was making a fortune

there was no such thing as losing money because they were the only games there's ABC, there's CBS, there's NBC and then it's quite a while later that Fox shows up but when these that was it and so you often watched things because the reception was pretty good

oh I'm getting this channel in it's pretty, what are you watching? it's a Catholic Mass you sure you don't want to no it looks good though they're doing the communion ceremony so let's check it out but the things that we would watch just because it came in

and I take shit for this sometimes because I go after the show Chips but when I watch one of those now and I'm looking at all the logical flaws I did an episode of that of course I did who were you and what did you do

that needed the intervention of some motorcycle cops I was a newlywed and they don't give me much time to create a character what are you talking about you were a guy on Hanglider

they said this newlywed southern couple and so I was talking like this I mean babe come on let's drive fast I've got to see this episode and my

so here's the scandal is that the woman who played my betrothed was a woman Kathy Shower and I believe she was like a playboy playmate or a penthouse pet or something like that and boy Eric Estrada was on her

immediately and it's like I rarely saw her it was like they were off it was like Mr. Estrada we're ready in a minute in a minute oh god bless

the late 70s and early 80s what a wonderful time I just I don't mean to imply that and impugn her integrity no no they were going over lines that's hilarious but I often use that as an example of

that's TV where there's not much competition that's how it always felt to me meaning what's happening this week well there's some jewel thieves and they operate on the highway why would they don't ask and then the guys

rather than the FBI getting involved because this is interstate commerce crime we're going to ask these two motorcycle highway patrolmen to crack this ring it's proximity and so then the next week they crack that and then it always ends

with the beginning of the show because I ranted about this with Bill Burr on the podcast once so I know I'm repeating myself but I have to do this because you're here it always starts with there's a disco dance competition in the policemen's union punch you're going to enter

guys I got you now you shouldn't do it punch for the meeting there's some jewel thieves on the highway punch John get on it they do that and then at the end of the episode they're slapping the cuffs I can't believe you caught us hate punch you better get going you're right

well you can't tell by the way I use my welcome a woman and punch dancing and everyone's like yeah freeze frame right and then next week it's there's going to be a hang gliding competition with a bunch of bikini clad girls but first

someone's stealing Renoir's on the highway but Bill gets mad he's like I love that show and I'm like no Bill hey you think that's tough I met my now wife 35 years ago doing an episode of

Airwolf Airwolf Jan Michael Vincent Ernest Borgman and the helicopter the airwolf so you're too young to know but I bet there was this series

on CBS that every week it had to involve a helicopter every single climax had to deal with a helicopter can you imagine like third season 17th show the helicopter goes

under the bridge now did that first season 17th helicopter goes through a drive-thru goes through a drive-thru car wash second season third how do you do that there can be no

undercover work or anything happening in a interior space that's not going to work and I think by the later seasons it would be a knock at the door and they'd open the door and the helicopter would be there with a mustache on trying to go incognito

and no one recognizes that I am not helicopter I am boat blade I am boat not airship but seaship he speaks funny I don't know if I trust ignore these blades

and powerful turbines yeah that just kills you but man I have to say I got to do a little work once with Ernest Borgman in another life and I was outside my body the whole time because it was Ernest Borgnein

I mean this man has an Oscar but he also he's in everything he's in bad day at Black Rock with Spencer Tracy I mean he's and he was a lovely guy lovely guy and I always

when I see people that come from generations before me which is less and less frequent as I get into my dotage but I'm always amazed I'm so happy to see

these old troopers that are out there he was great on the show Jan was a troubled guy he had a lot of demons he was always late and we did what's called a poor man's process

with a helicopter so we'd actually be on the ground there would be grips who would be actually just shaking the helicopter and the cameras would be on the ground looking up and all you see is sky above us through the top

and we were taught we had the headphones on and things and we're looking down looking down at what the city would be and it's just shaking and Jan who had insisted on these dark dark dark glasses and he would sit there

trying to keep his hand on the throttle and the steering portion and then he would reach up and he'd flick a switch up on the ceiling all the while his eyes are closed he is napping they painted eyeballs

on his glasses and we got that again cut and then Jan would just go back to sleep and then part of the thing was a roll camera and the first he would do a shaking sign to me and I go Jan

Jan yeah it was really sad he had it all and he just didn't know how to handle it and I think this goes back to what you were saying at the beginning is that you got to get your life in order and don't think that what you're experiencing now if you have good fortune

that you could do anything that you're entitled to do anything you're still a human being you still have to function and the problems ensue if you don't follow that well that's just good a place sorry to bring everybody down

no I thought that was really nice I think that's great I think you should take note well took a shot didn't quite hear what you said I saw your lips moving and it was something about being kind

doing the work but I didn't really get it so golly would you edit this thing together so it makes some fucking sense I got to go buy a lot of cocaine in your helicopter in my helicopter be great at that

I would love so much I would love so much if we had this great talk and then we all broke and you were like see you Conan and I walk outside our little place and I got into the helicopter you're like oh what a great grounded Conan Brian

such a delight to talk to you and I always come away invigorated, refreshed, inspired I'm proud to know you thank you my friend I appreciate it please come back anytime tomorrow if you can do it

tomorrow I can't do it tomorrow I actually looked into your schedule I can do it tomorrow I cancelled that podiatrist thing apparently your feet are a mess I'm a beneficiary last week we tried out the jup clone for men

because Tracy Morgan had mentioned it in his live episode at the Beacon Theater yes we had our thoughts and it ended with you going home smelling like a bucket of jup to see what kind of reaction you were going to get yes we wanted to test see what my wife's reaction would be

without me saying anything. So this happened last week, drove home from the podcast studio to make sure, cause I had some jup on me that we applied during the podcast to make sure I got out of my car in the garage and I sprayed underneath the right part of my throat and the left part of my throat and then rubbed it in

cause I wanted it to be powerful. Dupre, dupre. Exactly. So I walk in, I go into the kitchen, my wife's there and the first thing I wanted to do was give her a big hug so that she would really smell it. So at first I think she was concerned cause I was coming in for this big hug

and we haven't hugged since I think 2006. That was yes, according to the lawyers, it's 2006 but so I go in for this hug and I think she's a little bit like, huh, okay, all right. I'm getting a big hug from Conan, this is nice. And then I intentionally made sure that, cause I'm taller than her, she's quite tall but I'm taller than her

so that her nose is right up against. And she went, oh. And she stepped back and she went, you're wearing a cologne. And she's being very diplomatic because what if, I think her initial thought was my husband is now a guy that wears cologne and this is what he's chosen. Conan.

Yeah, and. How do I get out of this? This is who you are now, you're a cologne guy. I'm cologne Conan. And so she said, oh, and she was, so she didn't have like, oh my God, what the, you know, she just said, oh, a cologne. I said, yes, do you like it?

And she was like, yeah. And she's being very diplomatic. Oh, how nice. And she's being sweet cause this is, you know, Liza's very nice and she's very sweet and then I started to explain the backstory. And she said, okay, cause it's really strong. And I said, yeah.

So then I start walking around and talking and then like my son comes home and he's like, whoa, what's happening in here? And I realized, okay, I should, I'm gonna try and tone this down a little bit. So I got some soap and water and was like washing my throat and my underneath my jaw. And walking around, nope.

That jupe was there to stay. It was the equivalent of getting a tattoo. And so then what I didn't realize is that night, sometimes when I fall asleep, I roll over onto my stomach. So I ground jupe into my pillow and my mattress. And then three days later, I'm still smelling jupe on our sheets. And I think they've been washed.

So jupe is not something that you, it's not a decision you can take lightly. My jupe was with me for maybe six to seven days. Did it feel like you were in bed with Tracy Morgan? It did. Yeah. And you probably, you enjoyed that. I had a very erotic adventure with my pillow.

Let's just put it that way. What? Speaking of Tracy Morgan. And then later on, you see me at a restaurant opening a bottle of wine and it's me with my pillow. The pillow is sitting opposite me. And I'm going like, Can you leave Liza for your pillow?

Liza has me followed by a private detective. And he goes, I got bad news for you. He's seeing some sled on the side. And then she sees pictures of me with my pillow. She's like, oh, that's the phone memory pillow. Yeah. That's who he is. He's like, what's up in?

I take it to dinner. A guy comes by with a violin and he's playing while we're, I'm ordering the best champagne. Move it into an apartment in the city. Yeah. That's right. I got you all set up in your own special place. With an allowance.

Now, when I brought that jupe in last week, I left only to find that Tracy Morgan, that day, a package arrived from him. Yes. This was a great. I went home with the jupe, which sounds. It does sound like I, the clown came home with the clown. I went to this house of ill repute

and I came home with the jupe. That guy, that guy's lousy with the jupe. Doc, doc, you gotta help me. I got the jupe. So, yeah, Tracy sent me a bottle of jupe and a handwritten note. Really lovely. So you have jupe now at home and in the office.

Yeah, I've got my home jupe and I got my work jupe. Jupe'd up. Yeah. You're jupe'd up for days. Yeah. Oh, I'm all set for jupe. Although Tracy says to really do this properly, you've got to use half a bottle with each application.

Oh my God. So I'm really good for four days when you think about it. Oh, you're four years. Whoa. All right. Well, anyway, again, our thanks to Tracy Morgan for showing me this side of life. I didn't know.

I think maybe I am a cologne guy now. And if anyone asks, my cologne is jupe. Why? Because you can put it on once and it's there for life. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Saks, Joanna Solotarov,

and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Supervising producer, Aaron Blair. Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez.

Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Patista, and Britt Kahn. This episode was mixed and edited by me, Brett Morris. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It could be featured on a future episode.

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