Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Charlie Sheen

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Actor Charlie Sheen feels enchanted about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Charlie sits down with Conan to discuss his debut memoir The Book of Sheen, relating by way of struggles with addiction, the many reunions in the making of his two-part Netflix series aka Charlie Sheen, and much more. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, my name is Charlie Sheen. I love that you. Very few people struggle with their own name. Charlie, how are you? I came up with the fill-in in the middle of my name. I'm using all of this. I don't care what you say. Hi, my name is Charlie Sheen, and I feel enchanted about being Conan O'Brien's friend. I love that. I'm going to, yeah, I like that a lot.

I haven't used that word since childhood. Yeah. Well, yeah. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hello and welcome to Conan O'Brien needs of friends. podcast that gives life meaning.

Son Mepessian joining me along with Matt Gourley. Hi. And Sona, I understand you've got a big gig coming up. Do you want to talk about it? Yeah, we were talking about a podcast recording we have coming up that I have to miss

because I'm going to a... This episode. Oh, just kidding. Oh, I'm missing this episode. You're missing this guest. Oh, so you won't see me or hear me in Charlie Sheen's episode because they know it's Charlie Sheen.

I'm pulling a cone and I'm like, do they know? I know. I'm sorry, I'm from the old school of show business where you, wala, this is the new world of magic where they tell you how the trick works and then do it. Didn't your late show start with it going and tonight's guests are? I know. I know.

Nothing was ever a surprise. I know. Oh, my God. Don't reveal how ignorant I am in my own life. I don't even know who I am at this point. So, but anyway, I'm going to try and clean my job. My job is to clean up this brambled brush. Wow.

Yeah. You are going to miss the interview. today because you have to go on a big gig. Tell us what the gig is. I'm doing a speaking engagement at a convention for assistance. Why are you laughing so hard? I was your assistant for 12 years. You were terrible.

How dare you? Why is there also a convention for assistance? Because it's an important thing to bring us all together. We are the most powerful people in the entertainment business. This is going to make me sound really ignorant, probably to a bunch of assistants. She's speaking. She's the one who's telling all the assistance. Stop laughing.

Stop laughing. I kept you alive for 12 years. I kept you alive. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard. I got you to where you needed to be. I forgot what else I did. I'm pretty sure like I... Welcome everybody to the convention of non-killing murderers.

And our speaker today is Genghis Khan. Gangus, talk about your life of not killing and not murdering, no violence. These are my people. These are my people. Now, are you there? Is it kind of ironic that you're going? People know. You wrote a book called World's Worst Assistant.

Yeah, you wrote the foreword for it. I know, yeah. So you laugh, you laugh at you. You did this. You laugh at you. Because you enabled this, you'd laugh at you. Is this a preview of your speech? Hey, number one rule of being assistant.

You laugh you. You laugh you. What are you talking about? You're incoherent. What I'm saying is you enabled me for 12 years. Okay, sure. All right. What do you mean, sure?

I mean, yes, I agree with you. I don't think you ever reprimanded me. You just made fun of me all the time. Right. But what I'm saying is, given that all of that is true, you still should not be speaking to thousands of assistance and putting your imprint on their minds. How, I am, I am, uh, a success story.

In spite of yourself. That's true. But I, I assisted a high profile individual for a very long time. Very true. Um, and I got you to where you needed to be. Yeah, what do you mean, uh, yeah, I did. Good debating skill. What do you mean, me?

Neh. Buh. And the winner is a champion debater. I was a champion. I, speech. I didn't debate. debate, because debate involves logic and doing a little reading ahead of time. She was really good at going, oh, me, no, you're all!

You look at you. You look at you. You look at you. You laugh. Funny me? Funny you. You laugh. You and you, no, you did this. You did this. And the speech champion once again is Sonamov Sessian, Sessian, Sessian, Sessian, Sessian. No, for real, though. I came into this ambitious, and then you started making fun of me very early on. You said it sounded like I was arguing with Dracula when I was talking to my grandma. the phone. It was your mother. And it broke us. And it did sound like our good. You were going,

blah, blue. And it did sound like, uh, you know, Dracula the auctioneer. And I, I just commented on that and I thought was a very sensitive way. Are you proud of what you've done to me? Yes. I think it's really funny. Is it? Yeah. Is it funny for you? Yes. Because you in a name, you, you funny you. Well, you win that one too. God, you're good. What's the subject of your speech going to be? It's not. It's a Q&A. I don't even have to have a prepared speech. I'm just going to have conversation with someone, which is nice. It's called the EA Mafia. And, you know, they're like, it's a, it's going to be in Palm Springs.

It's going to be lovely. Okay. I'm going to say this at the risk of ruining all our good fun. You are, were a remarkable assistant. Oh. And no, listen, I will say this on some of the specifics, a disaster. But the important thing is, Sona would have jumped in front of a bullet for me. I would have.

She would have. She's incredibly loyal. I... Why would you have done that? I don't know. Just so she could get overtime. I know. To protect my paycheck?

I don't know. She'd be like, well, I'm shot now, so that's double overtime to the length of my recovery. Can I say something, though? You compliment David Hopping way more than you've ever complimented me. You always tell him he's doing a good job. Yeah. I taught him everything he knows. I don't think that's true.

It's true. No, he took over and you were like, good luck to you. You do you. And then you jumped out a window and landed in a big hummus truck. Oh, that sounds good. I want to get it. I want some of that. That actually sounds really nice.

No, I'm going to finish my nice thing. Incredibly loyal, very street smart, savvy, really funny. And we had a blast. I had a blast working with you. I think 95% of the time we were doing bits. But yeah, helped keep me sane. Or it kept me insane. I don't know which.

but Sona, I love you and I owe you everything. I love you too. I'm serious too. I really miss working with you on a daily basis. But back to how terrible you were at the specifics. Oh, no, we were so close to a nice moment. Come on.

Come on. My favorite quote is the, we did a remote that you can look up on YouTube, I'm sure, our webs, whatever. I don't know how things work. What? YouTube.

What's that? YouTube. YouTube's still a thing. Okay. On the tube, you can look it up. But when you and I work, with someone...

The HR rep. Blair, I think, right? Yeah. Oh, that's right. Her name is Blair. And you said, and you weren't making a joke, you say, I just think I have a mental block against assisting him. And I said, you are my assistant.

Yes. And it was such a great moment because I think that's true, but it also in a great way worked. It did work. It worked. And we're pals for life. We are pals for life. And I'm a barnacle. Also, I'm proud of you.

I'm really glad that you're doing this. And I think those people are lucky to have you. Oh, my God, thanks, Com. Like a piece of, what are you getting paid? Yeah. Got to get a little something? No, you can't get it. No, that's mine.

Don't do that with your mouth. I want to wet my beak. I want to wet my beak. No, don't do that. Oh, my God, no, I'm not doing. Stop doing that. Ew. I love wet my beak.

It's gross. I don't like the sound effects. Those are awful. Awful. I guess today, we got to get into it. Yeah. I mean, there's no time to screw around. Maybe he wants to wet his beak.

Well, all we've been doing is screwing around just so we're clear. I know. That is actually the job definition. We do. Quit screwing around. We've got to get back to screwing around. My guest today is an actor whose new memoir, The Book of Sheen, is out now. He also has a two-part Netflix documentary titled, A.K. Charlie Sheen. Welcome. I want to make it clear to all my listeners, I met you years and years ago. You came on, I didn't realize, you came on. I came on. I didn't realize. You came on. on my show eight times. That's amazing. You came on the show a lot. And the first time I met you, my immediate reaction was, and this is long before two and a half men. Okay. My reaction was, damn, this guy's really funny. Oh, right on. And I remember clicking with you right away just about how funny you are, which enraged me. Because you were born with that head and I was born with this

head that infuriated me that you were so quick and verbally dexterous. Your delivery is so dry. You have the features and, of course, the career of a leading man actor. Thank you. But you were so funny in ways that could surprise because it's not what I expected coming out of you. And I think that served you really well over the years. And now speak to that. Yeah, yeah. How do you, what can I, what can I say that you didn't? Well, you could say no, no, no, you're wrong, Conan. It is you.

Right, right. It was the true master. Of course, you haven't done that. It was you, though, when I discovered that we had, like instantly, we had a comedic rapport. Yes. And we understood each other's rhythms and timing and sensibilities. Yes, yes. And that doesn't use, that's, that's rare.

No, it was so much fun. I remembered, you know, there was always, as you know, you generate all kinds of stories. And at the time, there was some story about how you liked feet, you know, ladies' feet. And so our producer. We did it with Andy. Yeah. And our producer, Frank Smiley said, and, you know, we thought, well, we'll pitch you this thing. And I thought, well, Charlie Sheen might just get mad and punch us. It was all about us showing you different feet and you rating them. And you were like, of course, yes, let's do that. And then you did it and you were really funny. And to me, it's, oh, he's really fun to play with. And there's so many ways that I, first of all, a lot of similarities. You and I were, when you talk about who really partied hard in the 80s and 90s, it's always Charlie Shee and Conan O'Brien. Well, yeah.

And not always in that order. Not always in that order. No. I'm sure he didn't party and you didn't just clean up. Yeah, no, I, and Charlie will bury this out. But there was not a moment in his hard living times when I wasn't right across the room. It was me, Nick Cage, and you. And I was.

And Sean Penn, of course. And I remembered you guys sometimes saying Conan, slow down. Yeah, but that didn't matter if you never listened to us. But if you're going to set up. Yeah. That's why when I watch the documentary read the book, I'm like, hey, where am I, man? I was there often leading the way. Well, as litigious as you've been in the past, we were like, let's just, let's just disappear him.

And we did, and I thought you'd see that as a compliment. You know, I, my wife, very appreciative, my kids, so glad not to be mentioned. It's so funny because you've always made me really laugh, and you have this, you've had this unusual career where, you know, these films, these iconic films that you were in, and then where you're playing, it's heavy roles and leading man stuff and, you know, Oscar winning a, you know, platoon and you're in Wall Street. And then you have this, we're talking about it, major league and the hot shots where you got to show this other muscle that. that most guys in your position

wouldn't have had that kind of flexibility. Sure. And you probably knew all along, I could do that if I had to, or did you not know? Well, the Hot Shots movies, going into it, I was going to be borrowing

from the late great Leslie Nilsson. Yes, yeah, yeah. And I just, I kind of, because I saw those films as a child, or as a young teenager, like with Amelio and Westwood on a Friday night, watching airplane. It was the first time when I thought,

oh my gosh, someone else gets my sense of humor. And when I saw that, I thought, oh, yes, this is what it is. Your eyes don't twinkle. No. When you say it, you have to have the 10,000-yard stare. Everything you brought to any of your serious movies,

you now bring to this, but what you're saying and doing is quite absurd. Right. So I have to kill those jokes like I killed Sergeant Barnes. Yes. I just came up with that. And then I had another...

Very good. Thank you. Thank you. That's a fresh one for me. Okay. And then I just realized that you're talking with us too. I don't mean that demeaningly,

but you're part of the triangle. You know what? We discourage him as much as possible. Okay. Because I don't want to be like, he's the only one that matters. You really don't have to. Charlie, please.

But you're part of the show. Not really. Are you filling in for someone today? No, no, no. I've never met this guy before in my life. No, no, he was here to fix the HVAC. That's right. And we said, he said, this chair is comfortable.

I said, well, have a seat. And I said, this is true. I did see Platoon when I was in sixth grade, six times in the theater. In sixth grade? Middle school. Okay. And I was obsessed with that movie. Wow.

You saw how many times in the theater? Six times. So you have, I mean, that's a lot of money in Charlie's pocket. Yeah. That came directly from you. And I'm here to get it back. You were dissatisfied. But you couldn't stop seeing it.

That was a lot of money in Oliver's pocket. Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't have any ownership back then, you know. Of course, right. But one of the things that, you know, between your book and the documentary, both of which I've found fascinating, thank you. One of the things that I connected to on a personal level was because we're the same vintage.

I grew up, came of age in the 70s as a kid. Sure. And in a documentary, you're showing a lot of footage from your Super 8 films that you're making. And I recognize the jeans. I recognize the shirts, the jackets. I also recognize this idea that there were no helicopter parents back then. You just did whatever you did all day long with your friends. My parents never knew what I was up to or what I was doing.

In my case, not much. In your case, a lot. But I was looking at those, looking at your. Super 8 films and I was thinking, yeah, I remember this part of my life. That resonates with me so powerfully. Wow. Killing time with your friends. Only in your case, your friends are Sean Penn. And his brother Chris. Chris. Your brother Emilio. You're, you're, I mean, it's a who's who of very famous actors that you're clowning around with. Only you're doing the same shit that I was doing in Brookline, Massachusetts with my brothers. Only, we didn't go on.

on to become iconic movie legends. You guys did. Well, yeah, and there's two people that are missing from the dock, only because they joined the party late, and the choice in the dock to focus on that specific capture of time, and that was Rob and Chad Lowe. So they were also, like, right down the street. It was like, what was in the water? Yeah.

What was in that point doom water? Moisturizing back then as a child? He must have been. He must have been. It just, that guy kills me. What is the deal? My face rotting like a pumpkin in the hot late October sun. And I've had talks with him, and I remember I was talking to him once, and he reached

into his pocket, and it came out, and there was like a little packet in there, and he was like, squeak, squeak, squeak. Is that true? Did that happen? I think it happened. I think it happened. but he, you know, some internal clock went off that must moisturize, but yes, yeah,

I don't know if he'll outlive me, but his face will outlive me by 120 years. All of us. Yeah. All of us, yeah. But one of the things that was fascinating about watching the doc was you're making these very innocent films with your friends.

Then you go off because your dad, Martin Sheen, is going to shoot Apocalypse Now. You and your family join him when you come home from Apocalypse now, spending a long time in the Philippines, your films change in tone. And you actually have some of the props from Apocalypse now, like a severed hand.

You brought stuff back. And suddenly all of the films go from, ha, ha, oops, we fell down. Whoops, I went, boom. Yay, hippie, woo! And then you come back from shooting that, and it's people shooting themselves, shooting each other, hands flying, body parts.

Your oeuvre completely changed. It did. It did. Yeah, I guess the violence, the pure spectacle, the sheer amount of blood and body parts on apocalypse, like just like a, you know, like on a Tuesday, you know, just seeing that. And but also starting to like get in touch with, you know, not with the emotional aspects of. FX makeup and gore and all that, but with the technical filmic versions of it, you know, and then wanting so badly to emulate that and bring that home. And then basically, it went from the stuff you talked about to our prop department just being guns and blanks and blood. Yeah. That was it. I mean, it's really funny to see that change. Some of that's age, but also you were just on the set of apocalypse now

for a long time. Right. There's skulls everywhere. There's skulls everywhere. The heads. You're looking at the heads. I mean, there's a line. And this is you at catering.

Yeah. There's just skulls and bodies. Just here for a taco. Yeah. You had these friends who were becoming famous, and then you had your brother. Emilio becomes very famous, huge star. And then there's the whole brat pack phenomenon, all those guys and gals.

And I remember, I came out to L.A. in 85, and I have a very clear memory of working at Sunset Gower Studios as a 22-year-old walking up the street to make a deposit at the Wells Fargo on Sunset in Hollywood. And all of a sudden I saw this Jeep, open Jeep roar passed. And it was Emilio and Demi and they were all in there going, yes. And they went by me, and I remember thinking, Oh, boy, if only I could be in that Jeep. That's how I talked back then for the surgery. We all did. Your early movies were you like, I'm going to go to Wall Street. So glad they did ADR and fix that.

Yeah. You are around that, and I was thinking, oh, right, you'd have been around the rabbit, but no one knows who you are yet. Right. And what did that feel like? It felt awful. Yeah. It felt, I felt like I was just, you know, taking up the rear.

I felt like a valet on certain nights. Even when I was in the mix, like we'd start at the hard rock cafe and then we'd, like, you know, wherever the night took us to all the VIP lounges and all the special places where you, you know, try to hang out with the untouchables, you know, not the band, like, you know, actual. Right, right, right. Yeah, super famous people. But I never, it felt the worst was when, all the attention from all the pretty girls, you know,

and they would all go home with them, you know, and I would just go home. And it was, and I just, but it was in, I think there's a line in the book that my, my inner bear had been poked and it lit a fire. You could see it from the fucking moon, you know. You knew on some level, because had you been a different person,

you might have said, well, gee, I'd like to be in their situation, but that's not really my thing. it almost seems to me like you had this subconscious knowledge. I'm supposed to be one of the people that everybody knows. Well, that, or at least be part of all of the perks, you know, I didn't give a shit about acting. I was looking at that, just like, you know, if I can just get a... Didn't give a shit about acting.

No, if I could just get a job that everybody, like, you know, lines up to go see. Yeah, yeah. Then that's how my nights will end. I mean, seriously, that's kind of what was the inspiration, you are honest to a fault. Thank you. Thank you. I only got into comedy to do good works. Right, I know.

In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not familiar with these perks you speak of. Now, if you excuse me, I have nine bentley's duct tape together. I'm going to drive home. There's so much, I really recommend the documentary because there's so much in it, yes, there's all these harrowing tales that you have. There are moments where I, as you, as your star rises and you're self-medicating and you're getting into all kinds of stuff where I'm like, okay, that's not me. Like there's a scene where you're actually being very valiant, you're trying to help a woman out who's in a bad situation. she's in a house with kind of a violent guy.

Oh, right, right, right, yeah. And you say, well, I went to the, I knew she was in there with this tough guy. So I went out to my trunk of my car and popped it open and I took out my, and you know the exact making, I do, I do. Make and model of the gun. Yeah, it was an HKP7M13. Okay. Yeah.

Not the way I go. I go for a Glock M80944 slash B carry the three. They were sold out of those. Okay. The day I bought the HK. Okay, no, no, no. That's, I think of it. I was as a lady's handgun, but anyway.

It shoots bubbles. What do you want? No, you, you, you, yeah, why was I so specific about that in the dog? In the dog, it stood out to me like, you rattle off the name of the gun and you, like, chamber around and put it in your waistband. And I'm like, okay, you're an actor. What are you doing? Well, you know, rolling through a dangerous neighborhood, right?

So I figured I should pack a little heat. But it's in the trunk of your car. Right. Could you pardon me for a minute, sir? I'll take care of you. If you don't mind, I'll step out of the car. Get in the trunk if you don't mind. Yeah.

Wait, all my wallet's in the trunk. Hey, buddy. No, but it still came in handy. It did. That was a tough guy moment, though. That doesn't really speak to, like, who I claim to be. or want to be, but it did feel dangerous enough that I needed to be armed. Yes.

In that moment, in that creepy place to help her out. Yeah, yeah. I just, I'm really glad I didn't have to shoot anybody. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because that's when it gets like. You need confirmation on that?

Yeah, I mean, it gets. No, I say it would be good if you shot up the place. Okay. But that's when it gets messy. Yes. You know. Yeah. Yes.

Well, I do know. And not like our Super 8 movies. Right. Right. This is the real thing. Is this disallowed? Are we, like, not? I don't see any issue with it.

I don't know what issue with it at all. It's just nicotine. Yeah. I don't know what you at all. I mean, I'm fine with it. Vap away. Yeah. Well, no, I was going to say he was doing something else since it's audio.

Yeah. He said, is this okay? And he started removing his clothes. Can you imagine? He just pulled out a heckler and Cox 79B. Is this okay if I fire upon Conan? Amazing. Yeah, it's fine.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. But back to that night. Yeah. Yeah, with Sandy. Yeah. I'm not doing this in any particular order. It's just as things come to me. And one of the things that comes to me is, which just makes me sad, but you are very evocative

of another very handsome, very talented, extremely verbally funny person that I got to know a little bit, not super well, but Matthew Perry. Oh, wow. He came on my show just his friends was hitting, and he got there early. And I remember us just chatting in 30 Rock in the hall. all way and laughing a little walk and laughing and you know and um i just thought damn this guy's so as you are verbally dexterous funny then i find out that you guys actually became friendly uh before he passed away we did and that which makes complete sense to me sure sure i i i wish that

i had stayed in in better touch with him or just stayed more available or his his orbit was a was a hard one to to penetrate you know or or his his ecosystem or whatever which isn't unsurprising because you know when people need to be insulated to to hide or protect the things that they're that they're doing yeah um the less people getting past the velvet rope the better you know yeah yeah that makes sense I just but I read his book yeah and I read it in a day. And I just, I started it. And I was like, okay, I don't want to do anything else until I finished this. And then I wanted to reach out to him. And then, you know, kids and stuff in life. And I was like, ah, calm tomorrow. I call him next week. But I wanted to just congratulate him

and have a laugh about how I was included in his book. Yeah. Then there's one line where he says, fuck Charlie Sheen. I'm going to be just as famous one day, you know? He was like using me. Like, I used Emilio and Rob and dad and the rest of them, you know. And I never got to reach out. And, and first of I'll thank him for that and congratulate him on the book. And then he, I think, died a month after I read it. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

It was that, it was there, there was a moment in my childhood. There was a coffee house in Malibu, and it sits like, it was there for years, and they finally tore it down, like the get rid of everything cool, right? And I think I was 11 or 12. I had decided that Jaws was the greatest film ever made, right? And I saw it in the movie theater a hundred times, like in a movie theater. Because it played in theaters for a year or longer. So anyway, in the middle of that, probably 40 showings into that, right?

Dad drops me off at that diner. And I go inside a house and I'll park the car and I'll join you in a minute, right? So he's, I'm waiting for him and a person sits down next to me and I turn and look at him and it's Roy Scheider. Oh, wow. It's Chief Brody. Yeah. And I'm frozen. I don't know what to do.

I literally don't, we don't, there's no languages available. There's no, I mean, I'm 12, you know. Yeah. And, and then he was there just briefly. Dad took a while with the car. They knew each other from New York. That introduction could have been like, oh, hey, by the way, it's my son, right? He leaves, dad shows up, and I say, Chief Brody was just here, right?

And he says, ah, it's too bad. I know him. I could have introduced you. So then that's, so I never, I never got to take. tell him that, right? And I was always like, Jesus, if I ever saw, you know, if I ever see him out in the world, then, you know, I'll say, wow, as a child and this thing. But during two and a half, Holland Taylor played my mom, she knew him. And so she got that message to him. Oh, that's good. Yeah, before, before he passed, you know. But it was another one of those things.

It was with Matthew, that it was kind of, it was, it reminded me of the shudder missed opportunity. Yeah, I mean, Matthew wrote very honestly about his experiences and must have rang a lot of bells with you about those demons and what it's like to have that kind of, to be wrestling with that level of addiction. Yes, and his story, I think, took us more through a lot of the, you know, just a lot of the stuff that he dealt with. specifically with rehabs and with detoxes and with that whole world that tends to cycle people. You know what I'm saying? That sort of the business model is to rely on relapse. Yeah. And I'm going to get yelled at for saying that, but it's really true, you know, and then they saw.

It probably happened insidiously where it starts out one way, but then things can become a business. Yeah, exactly. And then you want to return customer sometimes. And I mean, I'm not, I'm asking, I'm not telling because I don't know. Yes. Yes. That is accurate. Okay.

Well, the lawsuit's on you then. Yeah, that's fine. It's fine. Once again in there. Add it to the stack. There's actually seven stacks behind you of lawsuits. But I could relate to a lot of that and just being at the mercy of people all the time and just giving away, giving up your power and giving up your agency and giving up just the, the, the light that makes.

you special, you know? And it's just, that's just being dimmed, you know. Um, plus I never did the freaking drug that he, you know, was it, what was it? Ketamine? Yeah. It was ketamine. Yeah. Um, the other thing that I'm, I'm grateful that, you know, I was never, um, involved, uh, my heaviest drug use, uh, never included fentanyl. Yeah. So that was never like, there's a good chance you wouldn't be here. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. My ex-wife Brooke was engaged to a guy who had a nice business. You know, it's a former athlete, young dude, good looking, but couldn't stop getting loaded and wound up in rehab again and scored dope, some cocaine in rehab and went into the bathroom and did a couple big lines and died on his way to the floor. So it's like, and that was fentanyl. Yeah. You know, and I just think about, my gosh, how many situations was I in where, you know,

we couldn't, like, order the fentanyl test strips on Amazon back then, right? I mean, it was just like. As you can now, you're saying? Well, yeah, that's definitely. Yeah, right? Oh, I think you might order fentanyl on Amazon. No, the test strips to see if it's, oh, damn it. For a second, I was like, well, hold on, my phone's right here.

We're rapping early. Yeah, I misheard you. That's all right. It's not like today when you can just get fentanyl on Amazon. There's another lawsuit, but not me again, you. Yeah, you talk about, there was a great quote where you said that you and Matthew Perry, I had a friend of yours that described you guys as veterans of the unspeakable. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a Downey quote. Is it Jim Downey? No, Robert Downey Jr. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, that's a Downey quote. Most people say Downey quote, and I go to Jim Downey, that's an L comedy writer. That's awesome. You go to that other downy who no one knows.

Right, I mean, maybe one day. Maybe one day. And there's another really funny, very funny, verbally dexterous guy, brilliant actor. And a lovely man. Yeah. Yeah. But I gave him a new nickname in my book. I call him Bobby D.J.

Oh, that's pretty good, right? I like Bobby D.J. Kind of rolls right off the tongue, right? Yeah. Bobby D. Okay. Okay, I don't have one of those. I have a, I'm not going to say guilty pleasure because usually when you say,

I watch these comedies on reruns, but I'm friendly with one of your directors on two and a half men, Jamie Widows. Oh, okay. Who's a lovely guy. One of the great people ever. Yes. Yeah.

He's a lovely guy. He's hilariously funny. A lot of you will know him. Like, wait a minute, how do I know that? You know, great TV director, but Animal House. Yeah. He's in Animal House. He's Hoover, I believe.

Oh. In Animal House. You know, now hold on a second, Dean. you know, you sit down and smite, you know, that smart guy. And he tells great stories from that set. He has great stories about Belushi. He has great stories. I mean, I got to get him on here to tell those great stories.

But his price is high. So wait. Anyway, he talks about, you should be getting paid. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's interesting. Wow, they skipped that part. Yeah. Just skipped it.

He'll be paid. Two and a half men, any time that show is on, I'll watch it. Seriously? Yeah, because your character in that is funny in a way, because I'm such a comedy nerd, I'm like, this is a little different. I'm trying to think of who else has been funny in this way. It feels very original to me to be playing that rhythm on a sitcom. It just felt unique to me. You feel like there's some precedence for it?

Well, yeah, I was borrowing or honoring parts of it from Ted Danson. Right. You know, from cheers. Yeah. But it's darker. It is darker. Sam had to be somewhat likable. Of course.

That didn't seem to trouble your character at all being likable. You know, like he's, there's, you still like your character. Right, right, right. You're not afraid to say the most horrendous things. Right, because I, I had confidence that whatever that they, that my character would wind up doing, that they, he would ultimately always be forgiven. I've watched the blocking on that show. I think you burned four calories an episode. you're always very comfortably dressed

and you're always usually sitting one leg crossed over the other with a beer and then other people can have complete meltdowns or John can have a complete meltdown you're watching, you've got some great jokes then cut to you in bed

with an incredibly different beautiful woman every week and you're like, wait a minute, did you win some kind of contest? Must have. Must have, yes, yeah. No, that's an aspect to it that nobody complained about. Yeah, yeah. The actors or the audience.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and interestingly enough, I was either married or in some relationship. No, it was only two relationships during the entirety of two and a half. It was either with Denise married and then that went bad and then Brooke married and then that went bad. So anybody you see me dating on the show is just on the show, which can. kind of sucked. I love that you're acting like, I know it's hard to believe, but I didn't actually sleep with that woman in that scene.

That's usually the case. Yeah. This is going to be hard for you to believe, but I've interviewed thousands and thousands of women over 30 years of television, and guess what? I didn't sleep with any of them. Seriously? Wow. How is that possible?

Thanks, pal. Hey, sorry. Okay, B, Arthur. Wow. Wow, you brought B into it. I had to. I had to. You mentioned that you watch it whenever it's on, right?

Do you know who else does? My parents, my parents will stop what they're doing. And if they finish dinner or they're about, then two and a half is on, they'll just sit down. That's fantastic. And they'll just take it in. And then I'll show up at the house the next day, right? I'll be like, hey, we watch this episode where so-and-so does this. And then the kid did that.

And then, so what, why did John do that other thing? And I'm like, mom, uh, I, I don't, I can't answer. that question. I don't remember the episode. You know what I'm saying? They want specific details. Oh, I know. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, okay, give me a little bit of backstory. And all the backstories are identical.

You know what I'm saying? It's the week you threw John out of the house. I'm like, I need I'm like, I need more. I need more, mom. I need more. You're slightly yeah, I'm pleasant. You're skeptical.

that something John's trying to do is going to work out. Right, and you're drunk in the scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You immediately throw one woman over for another. What happened in that episode? I really like watching you and John Cryer. Oh, thank you. In scenes together, there's a really nice, real chemistry there.

Thank you. And I know I was happy because I'm friendly with John, and I know that you guys went through stuff, and that could not have been easy for, for John. Sure. I was very happy that he participated. I was too.

Because it felt like there was a bit of a, let's put that behind us, let's come together, which I thought was. For the most part. For the most part. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What you say for the most part, who he's. Because there's a couple moments in the dock where he's still kind of hacking on me a

little bit, you know? And then he's questioning like if he should be in the dock because, you know, is it going I mean, another sheen experience that starts great and finishes in the toilet. Right, right. So I proved him wrong this time. Have you, though? Because many people consider coming on this podcast to be a rock bottom. That's a good point.

And, by the way, I went through all of your experiences, both in the book and the dock. Right. This is your rock bottom. Okay. Okay. This beats you going to the trunk of your car for a MI 1533. 48, 33. what is it 36 so whatever

there was a different time when you watch 60s movies that joke about women's measurements all the time that people did back then what is it she's 24 30 I forget how it goes she's 36 20 or 36 yeah yeah yeah yeah whatever

and you like what you watch it now and it's just a standard thing like she's 36 you know 24 36 oh you're like you're listing the her bust and hip measurements what

I've never understood it clearly there doesn't need to be math in that moment you know you're taking what should be a beautiful moment and reducing it to to ratios the ratio of hip to breast

it's quite pleasing it's the golden mean the Greeks discussed the Thagorean theorem your Emilio is not in and your dad's not in is that do you I think you mentioned at one point

you wish they were in the dock but it they maybe felt like they don't want to speak to all of this I don't know they watched a rough cut of the first episode at my house with the director Andrew Renzi Ramon was there mom was there

and and they loved it they were so entertained they were laughing they were just like they were so engaged and then they both said you know dad said i'm already in this thing i'm already represented in this thing and i and i like the way i look in that better than today he says he said you don't want to you're such an actor thing he said you don't want the old version of me you know like well kind of i mean well you know that's the authentic moment right now and so so he said no no no i i i can't and then amelio

they both decided that that or came to a realization that they it was my story and and and even though they're, you know, part of my life, obviously the whole journey, they didn't want to get in the way of my story. They didn't want to, in any way, put it through their own filters or in ways that might misrepresent some of the stuff, how it actually happened. You know, they didn't want to get in the way. But of course, the press jumps on it, and they're like, they're not in it. What's the backstory? What's the feud? You know? And there's like none. Well, your dad is a very special place in my heart because early on when I was doing my show in 93, 94, and people were saying, what is this? Who is this guy? This comedy is aggressively strange. We had a bit where it's very hard to explain, but it was stay in your seat theater where we would have. It's already funny. Yeah. Well, we would have, we needed someone with gravitas who would, I think it was a medical drama. And we needed an actor who, a guest, who would be the medical drama.

But what happened is we had other actors with green screen sort of felt over their faces, moving to different positions. And then when their line came up, we would take someone from the audience, literally a person who had been waiting in line outside Rogfar Center, 20 minutes ago, their face would suddenly be put on the actor's bodies. They're just sitting in their seat. I don't know if anyone has seen this, but they would project it. It's early, early, aggressively weird stuff.

Your dad said he'd do it. And so, I mean, we never thought Martin Sheen would do this. He'd be the superimposed face. No, no, he was the actual guy. He's Martin Sheen as the doctor. And then he'd turn to another doctor and go, what's the diagnosis? And we'd be just a, you know, a body there with the green sock on. And then someone from the audience who's just sitting in their seat who's from the Bronx,

their face would be there doing a scene. And they would just, we'd hold up a cue card. And it'd say, three CCs of Palahoma Samasone. And your dad would go like, great. And then one more thing. I'm in love with you. You know, and your dad just went for. Did he commit to it the whole thing?

He didn't, I mean, of course he did. Wow. He committed to it a thousand percent. That's amazing. And I, he was lovely to me. And we had a great conversation. And I've always just had a, just a, I mean, who does that? Especially with his stature, you know.

So, this new guy, something that's bound to fail, let's do it. Sign me up. Yeah, exactly. So, well, I'm glad that you guys are, and you talk about this, I didn't realize that Emilio was the first choice for Oliver Stone wanted for Platoon. Interesting, right? Yeah. Interesting isn't the word.

I know, I know. It's bananas? Let's go with interesting. No, it's not to use a fruit. But no, it, I mean, first of all, stuff between siblings and brothers especially, I think, can be, and I shouldn't say that, sisters too. But stuff between brothers is extremely loaded. Then you're both saying, let's do this acting thing. You're, you know, Emilio's first having success. Then there's this, what turns out to be a very important film, very important big director. And Emilio is their first choice. He's going to do it. And then something. happens, the project gets delayed, and then they come around and they say, well, Charlie, Oliver wants to see you for it now. Yeah. How heavy is that? It's, man, it's a trip. Emilio and I, like, never had that moment where we, like, sat down and processed it or even gave it the, you know,

it never existed between us that we felt that we needed to, you know, because it wasn't like that that didn't work out for him and then he did nothing. Yep. You know, he, he did a ton of cool shit and films that people are still talking about to this day, you know? Yep. You know, I didn't mean to speak for him, but he told me that he didn't love the script. Mm-hmm.

He didn't love the script. And then, if you ever have him on, there's a story with him and Tom Cruise, like jogging on the beach. That's already a great image, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Slow motion, the whole thing. Yeah. And they're talking about the script of Platoon. And they're kind of comparing notes.

And Emilio's like, well, what about this thing? What about when he, you know, and then when the bunny character pees in the dead VC's face and calls him this thing, you know? And like, what about all that? And Tom's like, yeah, man, that's pretty gnarly. And so it, I don't think. How about us losing the Vietnam War?

That's a drag. That part. We should win it. Yeah. But so I don't, I don't think Amelio really felt like he missed out and a fantastic opportunity, which is interesting until he saw it and was like, oh shit,

but I think he sees that it just would have been a slightly different film with him than it was with me because that is, I think that is the only part that we've ever, what's the cross swords on? No, that's not right. Well, what is the thing that people say?

No changing that. It's the only role that ever, Where your penis is touched. Our penis is touched. Yes. Yes. I'm trying to help you. Am I helping? At the premiere. So what the hell? That's not in the dock, is it?

Jesus. I wanted to save something good for this, you know? Sorry, Melio. Now I've done it. Well, this is another story that's fascinating. You give a verbal commitment or you sign a contract to do Grizzly 2 revenge. Right. It was originally called Grizzly 2, The Predator.

Just for anybody, any cinefiles out there that think I'm violating the, you know, the true spirit of the Grizzly franchise. Well, I'm just going to tell you. Come to be smirching the great... Matt Gourley saw Grizzly too. Revenge in the theater 75 times. I'll thank you to respect the sanctity of my favorite film series regardless of whether

you were in it. I'm out of here. I move to dismiss. Motion denied. But you know you, this is the crazy story. So you've said yes, I'll do Grizzly 2 revenge, which by the way also stars George Clooney

and Laura Dern. So there's a lot of great talent came out of grisly too. And the bear has gone on to now the, yeah, he's got that whole honey company. That's stupid. That was stupid.

He's the Paul Newman of Grizzly. He's the Paul Newman of Honey. All profits go to me. But you know, you say you're going to do that. And then you get this call that they want you to be the star of the karate kid. That happened. Yes.

And take it. Uh, so I, uh, I think it was on a Friday and, um, and I went and I, I auditioned with, um, with Abilson, correct? Mm-hmm. We have a research team here. Yeah, with John Abelson. Yeah. And I, I thought the, the, uh, audition was a disaster. Right.

And it was the scene where he wakes up from the beating of the bullies, right? And he wakes up, um, to his, to, to this, you know, his mystical sense. right and so to pat marita yeah and then um the dialogue was kind of stilted and didn't really have any kind of flow and like it did in that scene but it's not supposed to that's kind of their first encounter isn't yes yeah yeah so this should be a little tentative exactly yeah and i thought i tanked it and i'm on the drive home i was like all right let's just park that and just do better next time you know and i get to glennis liberty's apartment in santa monica she's my very first agent, right, who actually got her agent's license because I decided that, like,

I was going to become an actor. Wow. You know, and she was a friend of my mom's, but she worked for Pollock and Redford and, you know, she knew her way around. And so, um, we, we would usually have like a chalk talk at the end of the day of auditions and stuff like that. And, and she was on the street, like, looking for me. And I thought somebody had died. And I pull up and she, like, runs right up to me and and she's like crying and and babbling and and just so excited I couldn't believe it and I'm like slow down slow down slow down what's going on and she said they they they need you in karate training on Monday you got the part well I'm like well hold on today is Friday so and she's like yes you you're going to be the karate kid it's like the biggest film in town right

and I'm like uh okay but I have to um I got the thing with the big bear i got the predator thing and where is that shooting that shooting in budapest yeah and not like when it's cool to be in budapest you know um and so she said well i'm sure there's you know i'm sure there's a way to get you out of that and and and you know what should i tell them and i said i just tell them that maybe we could just have the weekend you know so i took the weekend and went to dad and i said hey i got this amazing opportunity like a career making move this giant movie that i think is you know it's got hit written all over it you know it's a game change And he says, and I said, so help me out.

Give me like a cool way to get out of the grizzly thing. And he didn't even, he didn't even offer anything in that regard. He just said, well, so you gave them your word, right? And I'm like, the grizzly people. Yeah. I'm like, well, yeah, but it's the thing with the bear in Budapest. It's totally forgettable. Anyone can get eaten by a bear or dad, right?

And he's like, he's like. I've narrowly beat out a side of ham Exactly And he said it's not about that It's not about that One big film Is in this business It's not going to carry you as far

As being known as a man of their word So I had to sell that to Glenys You know And she was like, yeah, have you lost your mind? And after a while, she agreed with pop. And so after a... Now, how was it when Karate Kid comes out and it's huge? That must have stung a little bit.

A lot of it. Did you go and... A lot of it. Did you go and see it in the theater with the bear? I picture both of you. Oh, you fucked up. It's just got a big paw. You're taking more than your share.

You're splitting up. They offered me the part of Miyagi. The bear could have been Miyagi. This is great. The bear was supposed to be Miyagi. You were supposed to be Ralph Machio. The whole thing's fucked. Oh, my God.

But he went with, oh, everyone just sees me as the thing that he chases people and eats things. Because I'm a bear. But anyway. I saw in the movie theater, like on a Friday night. And it was interesting. It was a strange mashup of intense jealousy, right? And missed opportunity. all that stuff but add to that relief there was a relief and i don't know how to explain what that was

about i think ralph was so freaking good in that movie right yep that i was looking at ways like what i have how would i have done that differently how would i have done that at all yeah and i was kind of like okay i think i kind of dodged a bullet here i don't think they would have filmed the whole movie with me right i think it would have been like uh okay cool no you gave it a hell of an effort kid But also, I've had that experience at my age now, where I can look back the things that I missed out on that I was convinced were essential to me moving ahead that devastated me at the time. Now I see them and I go, well, they don't fit this arc that I have at all. Interesting. They just don't.

And you could not if I got in a time machine. On my way here today, there was some street work, so I had to pass my old apartment on Cochran. I had a $380-month apartment, 1986. I lived on the first floor way in the back. I looked out on an alley, and I passed that apartment. I always slow down if I'm in that neighborhood

and look at that apartment. Wow. Because it was going to sound weird, but I almost feel like there's a ghost of me from 1985 that I used to sit on the steps of those apartment, of that apartment complex. and think, like, how am I going to make this thing work? I don't know.

And so every now and then, I'm like, I'm on my way to go talk to Charlie Sheen, and I've had a pretty good run. But I'll stop and sort of honor that moment at that apartment at that time. If I could talk to that guy now and say, trust me, the gig that you, where it's between you and another guy to go work, be a writer-performer for Letterman,

and you didn't get it. And they only hire, like, one person every three years and that you're not going to be on that boat. I still think that kid would have said you're out of your mind. That was my chance and it's over. I'm not going to make it. Right. And I've had like nine of those, you know.

And but then you look at it later on and you go, no, you weren't supposed to do karate kid. It wasn't supposed to happen. No. No. Because that choice changes other choices. So then you're not going to get platoon. You're not going to get. Exactly.

You're not going to get Wall Street. You're not going to get none of those things happen if you do. Probably not. Probably not. And, you know, following like that amazing in-theater experience with, you know, the karate kid as we know it, I didn't work for like eight months after that. And then I started writing stories about, okay, gosh, maybe they've tried to blackball me because I said no to their big, you know, their big event, franchise film, you know. Yeah, it just so that sort of compounded the, you know, the funk that that left me in, you know. And you did contemplate like I could be a cinematographer, I could be an AD, like I could get into this business in another way if this doesn't work out.

Sure, that was more really because I had done all of those jobs in our Super 8 world. You know, I'm not saying I did them well, but I had enough knowledge about, you know, what, what happened on both sides of the camera, you know. And that was sort of the pitch to my parents at the breakfast table, that first morning of summer after, you know, being kicked out of high school. I kind of sold them on this thing. And it's in the book. I don't know if it's in the dog.

But I said, look, I'm going to give the acting thing a shot. You know, I'm just going to spend this first summer of freedom just auditioning and just see where that takes me. If that doesn't work out, then kind of not a big lie, but the medium-sized lie that I told them was that I'll, I'll go to film school and I'll learn how to, you know, I'll be an editor or director or a cinematographer. And, you know, and so I just wanted them to feel like there was, there was a backup plan that wasn't the same one that dad had struggled with for so long in his early. years, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and they bought it. They bought it. You know, they thought, okay. He wants to be a botanist. Um, did, uh, oh, you also, and you talk about this, you had to sell your, your dad on changing your name. Yeah. Which is a moment. It was a moment.

Yeah. Um, and I just, um, you know, your original name, Carlos Estevez. Right. But Carlos had already been Charlie from in throughout childhood okay because we've had an uncle Carlos dad's brother and so someone would yell hey Carlos and we both like come in the room and that we know we had to put a stop to that right yeah there's only room for one Carlos yeah and and seniority rules in that moment yes so I became Charlie and then I was Estabas all the way through high school and then when I made the change or when I decided to to give this thing a shot I sat with them And I said, I really want to use Sheen. It's got about a ring to it.

You know, Emilio's already using Estevez. And that way, you've, you've got both bookends of your heritage represented out in the world. God, you're a good salesman. Thank you. You are so good. I'm in the wrong business. Well, you and I should start an advertising agency. I'd love to.

I would love to. Yeah. I just, yeah, and I meant you say to your dad like, I can see it in lights, pop. Right. Exactly. Charlie Sheen, you weren't wrong, you know. I mean, I just, it was, plus it was easier to say. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. What's your name? I'm Charlie Sheen. Even though when I walked in here, it stumped me. Yeah. And that's like on camera. That's going to be on like YouTube.

Yeah, I know. I know. You're screwed. You're screwed. Hi, my name is. Well, I don't want to take all your time. I'm going to say this. First of all, you said you wanted to hand me something.

Yes. But I don't know if you still do. I do. I do. I do. I know. I absolutely did not change my mind. you and I had a banter

that I think ran over the course of a couple years and it was during Spin City remember I was on the zone diet and I was like super thin and like eating nothing but I had this thing on Friday nights

that was a treat to myself that was called the McFlurry do you remember this? Yes we had great runs about that we had yes the McFlurry was important to us yes and then you said you would always say well has McDonald's reached out and and like offered you

free food for life or anything great like that. I'm like, no. Unbelievable. Yeah. And then you would make jokes like, well, why are you out here talking about McFurray? Why aren't you saying names like Portia and Ed's Diamond Store? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.

So shortly after that, this shows up in the mail, like no joke. The guy from Arby's. The guy from Arby's. Bill Arby? You know him? Very soon. He sent me that. Oh, my God.

And Arby's Free Food for Life card. Yes. I don't know if we can push in on that or, you know, yes, this is, and it's signed on the back. Yeah. I've been carrying that around for like 20 years. I love that you have this. And also. Yeah.

And you're the reason I have it. You're welcome. You're welcome. And can I say one of the thing, this? I want to know, would you go to Arby's and order everything? and then when they go, wow, so cool to me. Oh, and by the way, I'm not paying. And you're driving, like, the nicest car in the world.

Oh, man. You know. Here's the good news. I've never used it. I've never used it. No offense to Arby's, but you're busy. I love Arby's. I think Arby's, it hasn't changed in years, and that's good things. They do have the means.

But I just, I imagine. and there'd be a line behind me and just what you said and the guy brings all the stuff and I'm like, well, I got this thing and then he's like, okay, well there's some paperwork. Yes. Right? Yes. And then I'm like filling stuff out.

People are recognizing. TMZ shooting it. Right. And they're like... And then he's like, so that's two shakes, three roasts. Like in bananas. Yeah, exactly. Who had the...

Yeah. Yeah. So I've never used it, but I saved it. And I don't know. I just had to. it all these years. Just hang on to it. It survived the carnage. You know where that needs to go? The trunk of your car.

There it is. Right next to the BPX 45-663. I've got something you need to see. A gun? No. You can take the honest road to free armies or the dishonest road. We can take it in the dark. I rob you of these corned beef sandwiches.

Or I get him for free. Either way. I'm leaving here. Either way, I'm leaving here. With the meat. Charlie Sheet, this is what I'll say. This is one of my favorite. sessions. I mean, it's up there in the pantheon. You always, since I first met you, a delight to talk to

a really funny person. Thank you. Likewise. You have been very honest about your struggles and the craziness. And, you know, I went downstairs and you got here. And I just, I told you, we hugged. And I said, I'm really glad you're still here. Wow. Thank you. Because we lose all these people. We lose these beautiful people. We lose these really funny, wonderful. and people we lose so many people sure and um i'm just uh very grateful that you're just still with us thank you and um go go with god what the hell was that you're very religious today it's powerful we'll change it um uh go with satan satan go with satan i already went with satan i know I already went with Satan.

Satan's like enough with him. He moved in and wouldn't leave. Go with Arby's. Go with Arby's. Charlie, seriously, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. It's an honor. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien,

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