Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Dan Levy

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

Actor, director, and writer Dan Levy feels thrilled, titillated, excited, and stimulated about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.   Dan sits down with Conan to discuss memories of the great Catherine O’Hara, how Canadian self-awareness creates a unique sense of comedy, producing six seasons of Schitt’s Creek without the pressure of audience expectations, and the bombastic cast of his newest show Big Mistakes. Later, Conan brings in his lawyer David Melmed to consult on Aaron Bleyaert’s questionable tax write-offs.   For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. Get access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/conan. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, my name is Dan Levy, and I'm feeling thrilled, titillated, excited, stimulated. Wow. To be Conan O'Brien's friend. I think you're thinking of a different Conan O'Brien. I'm just feeling really good right now. Fall is here. Hear the yell. Back to school. Ring the bell. Brand new shoes. Walking loose. Climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are going to be... friends can tell never we are going to be friends. Hey everybody. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a friend. And I sit here quite proudly with my good friend Sonam of Sessian. Hey, Sona. Hey, hi. And of course, David Hopping.

Hello. We were chatting just before the podcast started about different things that we were excited about. And then, David, you were electrified because you said, and you had a huge smile on your face. He said they just renewed Gray's anatomy. I know. For what season?

23. Okay, this show started, I think, shortly after the end of the Civil War. Whole castes have aged out and died. There's only three originals left. I know, but how could this show still be going? And I don't mean to be ignorant or, and I'm so happy that people love Grace Anatomy, but I was unaware that it was still. It's still kicking, and I'm still watching.

Okay. I started it at Warner Brothers when Sona gave me permission to watch TV. I watched the first 14 seasons. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. Sona was my assistant.

Yeah. And then you were supposed to help her. And she gave you permission to watch. I'll never forget it. Sona. Because I was, so at Warner Brothers, Sona was on the second floor with you. This is for the TBS show.

Yeah. I was up on the third floor. So anytime you needed something, Sona would call me. And one day she called and she was like, hey, you know, if you're up there waiting for me to tell you to do something, like feel free to watch Netflix. And I said, great.

And I watched 14 seasons of Grey's Anatomy. You are. you are a cancer. What the fuck? You are a cancer that turns everyone into an indolent clown. You instructed him, and he didn't just watch one show or half a show. He watched 14 seasons. This is your work environment.

You are the boss. You set the tone. It comes from the top. Yes, it does. I don't think so. I think that there is a, the tone I set, I'm a very hard worker. I'm very intense. And then you come along and everyone around me, I'm sorry.

Are you being serious? You say, I understand you work hard. Yes. But you're not, you're not a serious person. Like I walked, excuse me. I'm very serious. No, I walked into the Oscar rehearsal and you asked everybody there if they all smell garlic. You said that two room full of people I've never met before.

Hey, dude, he's like, hey, what's that smell? Is that garlic? And you looked over me. You know what? It killed with all the seat. fillers. Yeah. They love my, my riffs about you.

Um, anyway, you, let's get back to you and how you've failed me. So you got him to watch. So you watched 14 seasons of Grey's Anatomy. Well, guess what? You have like 35 more seasons to go. Isn't it incredible? Well, how do you think this show will end? There's a theory that when Gray's Anatomy does end, humanity will end.

Oh, I thought maybe you were going to have a real theory there for it. No, there's a theory that it's, it's been around as long as, Earth has been orbiting the sun. Sure. I know you think the sun orbits the Earth, but that's not the case. It's insane how long it's been going for. I know. Isn't it incredible? I mean, as long as Meredith Gray is on our TV, what else could we want? Which one is Meredith Gray? Ellen Pompeo. Okay. And they're still doctors. Has the show morphed into now they live in a treehouse or something? A lot of shows that have been on that long morph and now they live on a dude ranch and they're not doctors. Is that happen? No, but the amount of like just natural disasters and awful things that happen in the hospital. What kind of stuff happens? Like there's a whole really intense shooter episode. There's a plane crash episode. Wait, a plane crashes into the hospital? Not into the hospital.

All the doctors are on a plane and the plane crashes. Well, what are the odds of that? I know. There's a ferry episode where they like all start to drown. What? All of them are on a ferry. So the doctors from the hospital all said, let's take a ferry and then it's the first ferry that's gone under. And that's an early one.

Okay. Yeah. All right. So, yeah. Well, the important thing is it seems to bring people a lot of joy. I'm trying to make this a positive thing. Yeah. And I know I came across a little bit when I started out as like, how could Gray's Anatomy still be going?

I said the same thing. But that's a terrible attitude for anyone to have. No, I said the same thing. I also watched it when it first came out. And they lost me when they blew up Kyle Chandler. That's when I was like, I'm out. How they blow him up? With a bomb.

What? And they blew them up with a bomb. Okay, but give me the context. When you said blow up, I assumed it was some kind of explosive. Don't just say there was a bomb. They blew them up with a bomb. How did Kyle Chandler blow up? There was an explosive in a person that they found during surgery.

Why would a person have a bomb in their body and then check themselves into the hospital? Answer that. David, do you remember? I don't remember. No, he needed the person needed surgery. You just have to, you have to go with it. The person needed surgery. The person needed surgery.

And the person didn't know that three years earlier he had swallowed a caramel covered bomb. It was stuck in his rectum? I'm just to explain this to me. So they're doing the surgery and then the girl feels something. And then they're like, oh, my God, it's a bomb. You have to stay still. So she just had to stay there with her finger on the bomb so it wouldn't go off. And then they called the bomb squad.

And then the bomb squad got everybody safe. And then while he's walking away with the bomb in his hand all, like, quietly. Who's he? Kyle Chandler. Well, he's on the bomb squad? Yes. Oh, I thought he was a doctor. And they handed him.

No, he's on the bomb squad. Okay. And we're like, oh my God, everyone's clear. He's walking away. And then as he's walking away, it just explodes. Do they cut to shoes that are empty but they're smoking? It's not a cartoon. I wish it was a cartoon.

And guess what? It sounds like a cartoon. So someone checked in for surgery, had a bomb in them that they didn't know they had. Yes. They call in the bomb squad. Kyle Chandler. Coach from Friday Night Light. Oh, yeah, Coach Taylor.

And he says, I'm an expert on bombs. Well, I think I'll take this with me home. I'll just go jogging home now. Who walks away with a bomb? You know, I'm sorry. I don't mean to neg on this wonderful show that people really like. Oh, there's a great musical episode, too. No, there isn't.

There's no way there's a musical episode. They're around a table doing surgery while singing How to Save a Life by the Frey. Okay. And they find a bomb? I feel something hard. Oh, my God, it's a bomb. We better get Carl Chandler. Oh, no, he blew up.

Oh, man. I just sneeze because I'm allergic to bad plots. How do they break a story on that show? How does the writer's room say, I've got it. There's a bomb in this patient. Why? Don't worry about it. I don't know.

Okay, listen, to all you fans of, what's it called again? Grace Anatomy. Season 77. Remember the first season? That was a good one when President Hoover stopped by. And he said, I think there's a depression coming. And by the way, I think I have a bomb in my colon. All right.

Well, guess what? My guest today, and this is no, there's no transition here. No. My guest today is an Emmy Award-winning actor, director, and writer, a real writer who starred as David Rose in the hilarious series Shits Creek. Now you can see him in the new Netflix show, Big Mistakes. Very, very happy. This gentleman is with us today.

Dan Levy, welcome. I'm going to say one thing up front. It's not where we're going to talk about. initially, but I, David, my assistant here, hi, hi. He downloaded, we were sent a few of your episodes of your new show, big mistakes, and we watched a couple of them yesterday,

and I was immediately, every time we finished one, I go like, another one. I'd be like, next. I mean, my job is I maybe watch the first one. Right. And then, yeah, I was like, next, next. And I was like, the hamster with the cocaine palette. I love that. when we were done.

No, I just wanted more. That's what we're hoping for, so that's a good sign. No, you are, yes, you want me to be a rat and addicted to cocaine. All of the above. It's really funny, and we will talk about that in a bit, but I'm so happy because I'm a massive Schitt's Creek fan, as we all are.

And then when I heard that you were up to something, another series, I was very excited. Prepared to be disappointed. Yeah. I love how your mind works, because that's how my mind works. Exactly. So I was disappointed. That's right.

Certain that you would die? Wait, what? No. Oh my God. Expecting the worst. Expecting the worst? Sure. And it delivered across the board.

Oh, my God. What a tragedy and what a travesty. No, I'm so glad that you are back making more ridiculous fun and you're so good at it. Thanks. And just thrilled to have you here. I saw you recently not to bring the room down. but I saw you very recently at a very sad event. There was also uplifting,

which was Catherine O'Hara's, you know, the gathering for Catherine. That's right. And I want to offer my condolences to you because we all lost this amazing person in Catherine, but you had this relationship that's probably gone on your whole life with Catherine. I mean, you made this incredible role for her in Schitt's Creek,

but all of us, that's one of just one of those losses that I still can't quite fit into my head. And the crazy thing about it is that I'm still like, you know, I go on Instagram and her face is there and Moira's clips from the show are all over the place. And I, every time I see her, even though I wrote the thing, I stop and I watch. And I'm watching not for anything that I did. Right. But I'm watching because she is impossible not to watch. Yeah.

And she's impossible not to love. And it's impossible not to laugh. with her in anything she does, and it's, it is like an unimaginable loss. Yeah. Yeah. She was just, you could, irreplaceable talent and an irreplaceable person. Really, I may have mentioned this, but at the SNL 50th, it's, it felt totally arbitrary to me unless they were just had an Irish section, but I showed up and they gave me my seat and I sit down

And then there's an empty seat next to me. And then who's a sign there, but it's Catherine O'Hara. And I had the time of my life with her. She's the greatest company. Yes, she was so. She's the greatest seatmate. Yeah. She's the greatest dinner companion.

Yeah. She was the greatest conversationalist. Yeah. She was endlessly curious and humble and deeply, deeply funny. Also, she has this, had this way of instantly, again, I don't know if this is because I'm part of that. sick Irish tribe, but she had this way of immediately becoming like an older sister to me. So I'm sitting next to her and we're going back and forth and bullshitting in between sketches.

And then finally at the end of the show, Paul McCartney comes out. It's like a surprise, but he comes out to sing like the end of Abbey Road. And I just next to Catherine went, oh. And she said, what? and I said, this guy's never good. And Catherine, like, punched me. She's like, oh, shut up, you know.

I'm like, I don't, I know her but I know her well enough to get punched by her, but yes, I did. That's also a stunning Catherine O'Hara impersonation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She had a very sort of, oh, there was a throatiness to her that was so gruff at times. Yeah.

And yet she played like Lola Heatherton and Vera Rose and had this, like, unbelievable elegance. and yet sometimes could just be like, oh, gosh. Suddenly, yeah, suddenly lose her words. She also knew when something was not funny. Yes.

Hence your Paul McCartney joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to be... She knew when to bring it back to reality. I wanted to be the one person who ever said that when Paul McCartney came out. I just wanted... I thought there's no one's ever done it.

I'm going to do it. I'm sure that was the reaction you were looking for. Yeah, exactly. I'm going on a limb with this Paul McCartney joke and see how... I wanted to get punched by Catherine Hara and my dream came true. But this segues nicely into something that has always puzzled me. And at the event for Catherine, the former Prime Minister Trudeau was there.

That's right. At one point, I find myself talking to him after the ceremony and I just said, why? Why are Canadians? What is it, is it in the water? What is it about? And I know it's a question that's been around. For a second, I thought you asked him why he was there. Yeah.

And why he and also. Again, I don't know if that would fly with, I don't know, maybe. I did. So when I saw him go, ugh. And someone next to me said, what's the problem? I said, he's never good. No, I asked him, what is it about so many of my comedy heroes? I grew up watching your dad, Joe Flaherty, Catherine O'Hara.

I mean, Marty Short, the whole crew, I watched them on SCTV, and I was a religious devotee of how smart. and funny and great. What a brilliant show that was. Well, I also try to get younger people to understand there's so much smart cutting-edge stuff that can come from any angle at you now. It just didn't exist then. And SNL was great and monolithic, but SCTV shows up shortly afterwards, and it is more like the internet comedy of today. Right. It was maybe 50 years. That felt like it was 50 years ahead of its time and I just fell in love with it. And I was up and then, you know, working in comedy, I've just, every time I work with Canadians and they're so fast and funny. And I'm wondering,

you're growing up, was it in Toronto? Where did you grow up in Toronto? And can you explain what this whole thing is? Well, I mean, my, my dad and Catherine had, have this philosophy that it's actually not an instinct. It's not a categorically Canadian thing. Right. It's just Canadians who have succeeded have just like there's a lot of Canadian enthusiasm around them. Okay. But statistically speaking, I mean, I think there are a lot of very successful, specifically Canadian comedians. I believe that statistically it's off the charts, meaning I'm not satisfied with the explanation that, no, there are funny people in every country and somehow Canadians just support. No, I've worked with way too many. All the kids in the hall guys, Mike Myers are just, it's an endless list. And it's also

pockets of very funny Canadians that have found each other at these points in their lives. And I, you know, going, one of my big, like, genie wishes would be to go back and watch some of those early second city nights. Right. You know, John Candy, Andrea Martin, Catherine O'Hara, my dad, Marty, and then, you know, Gilda. And, I mean, then you get into the god spell of it all, which I would have killed to have seen. Oh, that's the show we all want to go back and hang out at because it, it It's like every important science or every great painter in the Renaissance somehow got together and worked on one painting. It was insane. That's how it felt this one production of Godspell.

Everybody was in it. I mean, everybody. It has like legendary status. The very first movie I ever made was with Tina Fey. And I was so nervous. And at a break, she came over and she was like, I want to talk about Godspell in Toronto. And instantly, I was set at ease. Yeah.

So it's, yes, there are funny Canadians, but there's also like these pockets of unbelievably brilliant Canadian funny minds that have somehow found their way into the international sort of zeitgeist. I think it's because we live above America, which is inherently sort of a very prideful freedom and, you know, and we are not. You'll have freedom if it kills you. We're firing a freedom bomb. at you. It's like, what? We can't relate. You know, we don't have that kind of hubris. So as a place that is sort of wanting to be very different than America, but knowing that it is not quite as powerful, there is an inherent sort of self-awareness. Yes. That is in the water. And I believe

self-awareness is what makes the people funny. Yes. It's a lack of self-awareness is the most boring people you meet are completely unaware of how boring they are. Yes, yes. Canadians are very aware of how boring they are. And that's what makes it funny. Do you know what I mean? Yes, no, that's it. I don't believe that.

We know what's going on and we can talk about it. God, I love being Canadian. It sounded pretty good right now. I want to be Canadian. I'm clutching that passport. I got, my wife and I got invited to that lake area where everyone has their little cottages. Yeah, and Miskokas, and sitting on a dock and watching a boat pull up and, you know, Catherine jumped out of the boat with her husband, Bo and your dad's there and people, like, the cast of SCTV is jumping out of a boat to sit with me on a dock while Marty pours us drinks. And I left my body.

I left my body. You're drinking probably a rum and ting. Yes, rub and ting. And, of course, I remember it was like 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and Marty's like, time for rum and ting. And I noticed he shouts about everything. Of course. Come in, my boy. Rum and Ting!

And then a boat pulls up. All my heroes are on one boat. They all get out. We're sitting on the dock. I leave my body and I'm looking at myself thinking, that guy's hot. No. God, the sun has done wonders.

That's what happens every time I leave my body. I'm like, check out that ass. Wait, are you looking at your own ass? Your ass isn't good. Well, still. No, I was, I was, I just couldn't believe it. I just couldn't, I couldn't believe the whole thing. And then what's lovely about this whole story is that I know that you growing up were very conscious of not wanting to be part of your dad's light and make your own thing and do it your way, which is in some ways harder, I think.

Yeah. Because you talk about when you were a kid. Yeah. I don't know where I read this, but you were a kid. And if people were paying attention to your dad, you didn't want to be part of that. Yeah. Is that true? I would like walk 10 steps ahead or 10 steps behind.

I really didn't like, well, I was like really insecure as a kid too. And I think having a parent who is like well known and particularly in Canada, that SCTV alumni are just like a kind of royalty. Yeah, they're like 10 Wayne Gretzky's walking around. Yeah. That's exactly it. And people would come up and the attention was just so kind of awkward. And so, yeah, I never really paid attention to it. And then I got into the theater program in high school and would never ask my dad for any help and really wanted to do it on my own.

I just think when you grow up under somebody who is so good at what they do, a lot of the trial and error of being a child of somebody who is good at what they do is trying to. to discover whether you are also good at the thing that you're excited about. And if you happen to be excited about the thing that your parent does, it makes it even harder. Yeah. Because you're constantly in comparison. I remember taking a second city class, improv class in Toronto, in front of a five-foot by six-foot photo of my dad in costume.

It was like, Bobby Bittman or Bobby Bittman? Bobby Bittman, okay. A giant Bobby Bittman looking at me. like, how are you? In a thing, with the red suit and the thing. And I was, and people were like, gosh, you look a lot like Eugene Levy. And I thought, I can't take these classes anymore. I can't do this because also failing at improv in front of a photo of your father

who didn't fail at improv is worse than never having done it. It's worse than failing at a thousand things. So I just, I never really, when I got a job at MTV, I didn't tell them who my My dad, I just didn't want anything to do with him because I revered him so much, but also because I wanted to trial and error my own skills without the constant comparison of... Is it as good as Bobby? Yeah. And slowly but surely I built a name for myself in Canada very unbeknownst to the audience that I was my father's son. And then when shit's happened, I felt like, I felt confident enough in my own point of.

view in what I was bringing to the table to ask him to collaborate. And I just had to get to that place by myself. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's almost like you had to do like a walkabout or a desert sojourn where you figure these things out. And it's interesting because there's a- But also being Canadian, you don't want the leg up. Yeah. You want the torture of doing it completely on your own. But also, when you do it on your own, there is a greater satisfaction. in the success. Yes. Schitt's Creek, initially, the reviews were mixed.

Were mixed and you were taking some heat for like, oh, is this, you know. I believe the New York Times called me untalented. Oh, yeah. What the fuck. Well, and the, yeah, in the review of season one. And the problem with doing press around something. when these articles are coming out, is you then have to swallow the facts that the new,

everybody is reading the New York Times. Yes. Reading, like, I don't know if it was the word was untalented, but that was the takeaway that I took from it. It was not kind. Yeah. And then you kind of had to go and be like, I'm really excited about the show that I'm making.

Anyway, cut you six years later. They wrote a glowing review of our final episode. And you sometimes just have to, keep working. Yes. To prove yourself and I'm fine with that. Yeah, I mean, this is funny because you mentioned this with the, in Canada, you don't want a leg up, you almost want the punishment. I realized that I had kind of a self-hating thing that was very comfortable with the punishment early on. Sure. And then when things turned around, by the time they turned around, I felt much more confident because I felt like I hadn't been floating along on a lot of hot air, certainly. And

it can feel beneficial, you know, to walk through that in the beginning. Absolutely. And find your way. I also feel very lucky about the fact that nobody really watched Schitt's Creek until it was done. So we were able to just make the show we wanted. How rare is that? Yeah. To make six seasons of a TV show with absolutely no expectations from an audience.

Nobody cared. We were hustling until the end. And then it wasn't until I had finished writing the last episode. of our sixth season, the series finale, that people started to pay attention. So we had this wonderful kind of window where due to luck and circumstance, we were able to stay on the air for six amazing seasons,

but nobody cared. But also, so great. I care. Yeah. I definitely care. But also, what's nice is now they're done and we are a culture now. I think there is upsides and downsides

to the modern, streaming world we live in. A big upside is shows that I love like an arrested development or Shits Creek. They're there for me at all times. And you can go through and you can page through them like having a classic novel around the house. It's really lovely. And I remembered thinking this before she passed. I remembered thinking it was such a nice thing for Catherine to have that role during that last decade of her life where she was playing someone who was belies. loved because people love the character and they're really getting to see yet another way that she's really funny.

And she was very proud of it. And I think people were always coming up to her saying, we love you on Schitt's Creek. It was such a nice thing for her that you, you made happen. She made it happen. I just made sure that I was prepared. Okay. That's really what it came down to. Like, so much of Moira Rose was Catherine.

Yeah. As is every character, she, I mean, you know, Seth, Rogan was talking about this recently about, you know, how the amazing thing about Catherine is they would, she would email them the night before being like, gentlemen, some thoughts about the scenes we're shooting tomorrow. And it would be a full top to tale rewrite. And as soon as he said it, it was like, I got those, I got those emails, the gentleman, it always started with gentlemen, some thoughts. And then it was an unbelievable rewrite of the scene. And that is what the amazing, all the great Catherine roles were when she found collaborators that wanted to give her that platform. Yeah.

You know, because she had so much to offer. And she was so, the way that she thinks is so on another level that as a writer, you can't get into her head. So all you can really do is set the table, wait for the email, gentlemen, some thoughts. read the scene and say, fuck yeah, you know? And like, just be prepared. Sure.

You know, she told me how she wanted to look on the show. My job was to make sure that in a wardrobe fitting, we had everything that would excite her. Well, this I have to break in because you just brought up a topic that came to my mind, which is the wardrobe for the show, was, you know, a star of the show as well. Sure. And it always reminded me a little bit of Gilligan's Island where the premise was, these people get together for a three-hour tour.

A storm hits. They're washed up on an island. And every time you see the howls, they're wearing these absurd different outfits. And they just said, yes, they brought a trunk of their clothes with them. Yeah. On a three-hour tour.

And it was in trunk that was like out of Hogwarts. It was infinite. There's Belgian armor in there. There's Shakespearean garb. Every single thing you would ever need. And I remembered having that thought about shit's crows. which is they had money and then... Lost it, but got to keep every piece of clothing

and somehow store it in a motel. Very small motel. That was often booked up. Yeah. In our mind, all of their clothes were stored in the upstairs above the lobby of the motel. But also, I love... That's how we rationalized it.

But I love that... I love that... You do seem to me like someone who does his homework. I'm sure you were doing all. all of the character work and figuring out down to the smallest detail. But to that point, those clothes did so much of the character work for us. All I had to do was make sure the racks looked good and they were nuts. And that we had, you know, huge sky-high heels and, like, knee-high boots and mini skirts made out of latex.

And at some point, there were some, I would source these designer pieces that sometimes required us to contact the designer. to find out how to put them on. There's a dress that Catherine wears. You enter through the arm. No joke. There's a very classic scene where Moira Rose is being photographed in a field by a character we called Sebastian Rain,

who was played by Francois Arnault, who is now of heated rivalry fame. And she is in a latex dress that had to be tied with a shirt under And we couldn't figure out how to tie the latex because putting a tie around latex is like rubber rubbing against rubber. So at one point there were like four people around Catherine, like one with a foot on her back, one trying to tie the latex. I'm like swirling around her being like, can you breathe? Are you feeling good? Is everything okay? Missing her.

And that was when Catherine was like at her most excited. Yeah, yeah. When the costumes were so insane that it took five people to put them on, and then boots that were laced up that took 10 minutes, and then she'd walk onto set, you would hear kind of gasps from the crew, because they never knew what she was going to show up wearing and looking like, depending on the wigs as well.

And it was the joy of seeing Catherine excited. There is no greater joy for me. But also, I mean, you got to wear great stuff. I'd wore a lot of drop crotch pants. and they were all really comfortable, actually. So that's all you can ask for. I mean, wearing double-faced cashmere in the dead of summer in Toronto outside

was tough, but I won't complain about it. We all pay our dues. That's exactly it. I always heard that Sarah Jessica Parker owned, like, her deal when she was making sex in the city was she gets to own all the dresses and that they're in a massive warehouse somewhere and she owns them all.

And I'm thinking, I hope you had that deal with Schitt's Creek. Are you fucking crazy? Do you understand how little that show costs? We had to sell every piece of clothing to pay off the debts that the show had even in our sixth season. Wow. We got no cash. It was like slim pickings from the very beginning and then incremental sort of, I think it's like a standard 15% whatever it is that your budget can increase. But, you know, 15% on like a pile of shells and a feather is not giving you much.

So we had to sell it all. I kept four looks. I kept four of Catherine's looks, four of Annie's looks, and four of my looks. Unfortunately, my dad's suits, we can just buy in a store. But, so I have some. The retrospective will be small. But I do have some of the looks. So the museum is going to be like a little nook in a mall.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It'll be a corner. Yeah. Here they are. The floor outfits. That's right. Moths got to them, but it's fine. They were kept in my parents' basement in Toronto, where they still are in a plastic bin.

So we'll see. The show ends. And I know that people are probably all saying to you, as they do in this business or really any business, once you have a success, hey, what's the next thing? That's right. And I have never known what the next thing is. and go into like a weird slovenly funk. I did say to my wonderful team of people, I will, I cannot hear the word momentum ever again. Right, right.

I don't, it means nothing to me. Momentum, I feel like, is, is a word that forces people to make bad decisions. Wow, that's good. I just, and yet, this is a, an industry that's like, you're hot, you're hot, you're hot, what about this? And someone says yes, and you do it, and suddenly it's, you're spread too thin. We see it all the time. I don't know. I feel like I've been lucky enough to really care about the quality of the work.

Because to me, if what I'm putting out there isn't good, then why am I doing it? Right. You know what I mean? I worked at a bakery and a video store. I can go back if I have to. Oh, the video store, wow. You can trim that, right? No, we can't.

I worked on a TikTok. We're going to put that on a loop. Yeah. It's not fun. Yeah. And there's no, I mean, you know, to work on things you don't care about, it's just not fun. So I would rather take the time and risk the lack of momentum. Right.

And put something out that continues to, like, excite people, then take every opportunity and not be maybe even the best fit for the opportunity that crosses my path. Yeah, it's a really interesting point you make about momentum because that is a thing. you've got to strike while the iron is hot. You know, you just had a hit movie. You've got to write a book instantly. Yeah. And no one...

Did I sell Tostitos chips? Absolutely. Do you regret it? No, you do not. Absolutely not. I was making a Canadian TV show, okay? Even at the end, we weren't making, like... Yeah.

It's different. So when Tostitos, I love a Tostitos chip. You know what? Anyway. Can I just say one other thing? It's a good chip. It is. Yeah.

It's a good chip. Are you a chip? Preparing yourself? for eventually becoming a toostito gun. I'm thinking, I'm just putting it out there. But if Dan wants to do something with me and the Tocitos, again, the humble side of myself was like, don't make it seem like he didn't take the, you know, the ads.

I took the ads. I enjoyed them. I was able to make them my own. Yes. Well, to me, the great revenge is if you can make one of those things funny and in your voice, then it becomes something you would have made anyway. Exactly. Which is always the dream.

That is a dream. But I'm just curious. You're in this period then where you need to think, you need some time, and time goes by and you've worked on other things, but then this idea comes along. And did you have this idea? This show idea? Well, in between that show, I made a very small movie called Good Grief for Netflix,

which was exactly what they wanted me to make after the success of Schitt's Creek. A small film on the rumination of grief, just examining the small, ins and outs of how a group of friends deal with grief. You want laughs? We got laughs. And I was so aware of it at the time when I pitched it too. You know, you're looking at very kind executives being like,

and then and that's it. Okay, great. And they made the movie and I was so happy because it got me through such a hard time in my life and I'm so proud of the film. But yes, now we are back to comedy. Yeah. And I'm, again, but I do think if you have curiosity, you have to, I think that's why the second album from an artist is always kind of the experimental one.

Yeah. Because when they have success in one area, like a record, you'll listen to an unbelievable record, like jagged little pill, for example. And then you have supposed former infatuation junkie, which is like similar, but very different. But I think you need the freedom to play in another area to show you. yourself that you have the ability to do other things because the industry can make you feel like, oh, you're that guy. Yeah, yeah. So that's what you do.

And you'll do that. And I did. I got like really a lot of scripts where I was asked to play essentially a worse written David Rose. Yeah. And I was like, I did that better than this. So I don't want to do that again. Yeah. I want to tell a small story about.

friends who are dealing with grief. And then I'll get back to the comedy. But I have to know what else is out there in order to feel confident enough to come back into the space that gave me everything I have now and be excited to come back to it. Right. Well, I mean, as I said earlier, David and I were watching a couple of the episodes and really enjoying it. It's really funny. And the first thing I noticed before the show even began is that this is something that you worked on with Rachel Senate. Yes. And And I thought immediately like, well, love Dan, love Rachel, very much looking forward to this, and then didn't disappoint. Thanks.

It was really funny. I'm really happy with it. And you know what's interesting is right away, it's revealed that your character is a pastor, like in the first frame. And it's almost so felt like you throwing down a gauntlet like, no, this is not David. It's not David. It couldn't be farther from David Rose. And it was so smart because in this one fell short. you're like, oh, he, this is, no, by making him a pastor, you're a completely different person.

That's right. It was, you know, I wasn't even a conscious thing. I think it was just curiosity. I wanted to do something different. I never get the opportunity to be part of a crime thing. Yeah. It's just not, I guess, what people see me as. So part of what was exciting to write the show.

And when I thought about, like, well, you know, when you commit to TV, it's a lot, it can potentially be a long, exciting journey, but a long journey, you better like what you're writing, otherwise you're in trouble. And the idea of finding a way through both comedy and crime felt really exciting to me because it's so far from my comfort zone. The idea of being blackmailed into organized crime is a horrible phobia that I have. I don't know what. I don't know what it is. I've never heard of in my life. Generally speaking, I hate being trapped in things. Yeah. So the concept of being blackmailed into. to organize crime, you are stuck.

You're not getting, the chances of you getting out of that situation, it's not good. And if you're me in that situation, you're done. Bye-bye. So that felt exciting. And I brought the idea to Rachel. She loved it. We worked on it for, you know, eight months and wrote the pilot in a night.

And it was just, it was, it's great. It was so fun to act. It was so fun to write. I have to talk about your sister is played by Taylor Ortega. Yeah. And she's really funny. And I was not as familiar with her. I didn't know Taylor.

And I'm watching her with you in this show. And it feels like a real brother-sister thing. Yeah. It feels very real. And one of the things I think works so well is you are so good when your character is in peril and desperate. You're so funny doing not even quiet desperation, but you play that so well. And what you've put yourself into consciously or not is a situation where you are always in terrible peril. That's right. From maybe six minutes, five minutes into the show, you're in peril.

And then the show just keeps turning the crank. Yeah. So you keep getting funnier and funnier and funnier as you're in more and more apparel. And of course, you have this sister, Taylor, who's very different from you and, you know, more assertive. Sure. And but also she's really funny in these situations. And the fact that you two still bicker when your lives are at risk made me really happy. So there's a lot of that.

That to me was what is the show. Yeah. It's like, you know, playing with the audience in terms of saying, okay, what if this were you? and your sibling, you wouldn't change the dynamic just because of the circumstance, you would be bickering in the back of a truck. Yeah.

Well, this is, you're pointing out one of the situations, I don't think I'm giving away too much. It's just a little thing that gives you a sense of the show is you guys are in the back of a truck, you're in great peril, and then you see an opportunity to flee so you start to run. She starts yelling at you that it's not a good idea.

start stop, start yelling back at her, that it is a good idea, and you two are fighting about whether or not you should flee while the bad guy comes back. And I thought the fact that sibling bitterness and bickering overrides the instinct to live. That made me really happy. That's the joy of the show. These are two people that will, if they're forced to get into a common grave, will be arguing with each other about who should get shot second as opposed to first. Yeah.

And I feel like, okay, you've got a lot of runway with that idea. Oh, that's always like the greatest realization when you're like deep into a season and you're like, oh, we're just getting started. You know, like, that's the fun. And in finding Taylor, again, it's like, I had this with Annie in shits.

Yeah. Finding somebody who has done the work found the job and is ready to go and showing them to the world, that's a thrill. Yeah. One of the many thrills of this show, you know,

working with Lori Metcalf, one of the... Oh, who's... By the way, unbelievable. She's your mom, and she is... Even when she's doing the subtlest thing,

she's absolutely hilarious. And, you know, the insufferable mom is a character that's been played a million times, and then Laurie Metcalf does it. And you're... It's a whole new thing. It is.

And she's so good. And it was, I mean, I've been a fan of hers for, you know, like, it goes back and back and back. But, yeah, you know, Taylor is, I'm so excited for people to see her. I'm so excited for her to get what she's worked so hard for. You know, I think that's, it's, there's something thrilling about introducing somebody to an audience. Because so often now, it's like, you can't greenlight a show unless, it's a stacked cast. So to continue to tell stories

with relatively up-and-coming actors is, for me, is thrilling. I include Lori McHaff as a relatively up-and-coming actor. You know, this was the project where I finally thought. This is her breakout. She's arrived.

I'm so excited for her. You've talked a bunch in the past, or in interviews, about anxiety, feeling insecure. when you're growing up. And this is a topic that fascinates me because like it or not, I think we probably have to accept that that's an essential ingredient sometimes to the mixture. Sure. And I can't explain why that would be the case. And I feel like I'm legitimizing that kind of anxiety or those kinds of mental issues. But at the same time, I also think that was a big part of my situation coming

along and if I had to do it again and didn't have that, I'm not sure that I would be here. There are certain ingredients, albeit painful ingredients, that are necessary to, in my case, to the storytelling. Yeah. So much of what I write about is how families interact with each other under difficult circumstances. And if you come from a Yelly family, I think this show in particular celebrates Yelly family. Yelly families. I think of people who don't come from Yelly families will probably watch this in shock and horror. But if you come from a Yelie family, it is a celebration of the fact that

anxiety and nerves manifest in very loud aggression between people. And if I didn't experience that and inherit it, I wouldn't be here today. So as hard as it is, there does come a point, I think age is a big part of it too. Like, I'm now 42. I don't care as much as I did when I was 20. When I was 20, everything was consequential. And so when everything is consequential and you are an anxious person, you will worry about everything because you're so unaware of how little it matters in the end. So now I think I get to look back on my own experiences and kind of the experiences I've had with my family and all of that kind of stuff and and celebrate it. Yeah.

Instead of continue to wear it. I'm a less anxious person than I am now. And I do actually think at the core of the show, it's an, it's an examination of what we inherit, what that kind of ancestral trauma that kind of trickles down from, in this case, like matriarch to Lori to the kids, you know, the first. very first scene of the show, Nona is dying, and she's a yeller. And then you

instantly see that this yelling streak has just found its ways through three generations of this family. And all we try to do as a generation below is push back against what we're inheriting. And sometimes you can do it, and sometimes you can't. You just have to let it happen. But it's fun

to be able to, like, write about the minutia of anxiety and how it affects people. I think it's endlessly entertaining. Now, where do you, so when you're making the show, is the show made in Canada? Is it made in Los Angeles? In New Jersey. Okay. So, um, where do you live? And I need an address. I'm, well, I have been in L.A. And relocated to New York City to make the show. That's so cool. And we shot in New Jersey. And it was very exciting to be back on the East Coast and experience seasons. Is home, when you think of going home. Is that Toronto? Is it L.A.

It's L.A. Yeah. Okay. That's, it's, because I think that, um, I'm always fascinated by that because home used to be Boston for me, but it's not anymore because I've been gone too long. And I think the more that the hometown changes, the less you can relate to it. Like I was just in, I just came from Toronto yesterday night. And I look around and it's, it's just not the place that I grew up in. So when you look around and the place doesn't reflect the memories that you have, all you have are the memories. It becomes less and less about the actual place. So my life now is in Los Angeles.

Most of my friends are in Los Angeles. And that is home. The hometown is a memory at this point. Yeah. But also, I think, even though my parents are still in my family house. Oh, is that true? In Toronto right now. Same house, all these years?

Yeah. By the way, your mom's really funny. She is very funny. Arguably funnier than my dad. Yes. Yeah. Who, by the way. And he'll admit that.

Yeah. And I've tell your dad all the time, I've never found him amusing. That's right. And his eyebrows go up. Uh-huh. No, he is such a lovely man. And I met all these people for the first time when I did a Aspen, they asked me, would you come out to do the Aspen Comedy Festival? And this is just when my show had kind of clicked in

and it was starting to gel. I remember being younger and thinking that was the coolest thing. The Aspen. That he got to meet you. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah.

You got that wrong. But it was, I remember they said, Conan, we want someone to, you know, interview all the SCTV greats. And I thought, this is a make-a-wish. Like, I must be dying and no one told me. But I went and, you know, talked to everybody and interviewed them.

and got did my preparation and we did the thing and when it was over your dad said hey everybody um everyone was trying to disperse and your dad like a camp counselor said hey everybody um i think conan put a lot of work into this and did a really nice job and i think we should you know give him a round of a and i thought what it like incredibly nice man to do that that's so nice you know like he was taking care of me right he was he saw like oh wait a minute this guy let's before we all go let's make sure we do this and that always that touched me a lot at the moment he's a little very sweet man. Yeah.

He's a very well, like soft, well-intentioned, sweet person. I did not inherit his goodness. It says that here in your information. He is a genuinely kind, like, he just, it is, I can't just, I can't explain it. And the number of people that come up and are just like, your dad is so nice. And I'm like, I know. But I can't help you. You are also something.

Well, the show is big mistakes. It's really funny, and I'm very happy for you. Thank you. And please come back any time. And also, you're part of this. I get, I say this a lot, but I get very excited when I meet and get to hang out with, even briefly, younger talent that's part of this whole ecosystem. And the fact that is, you know, because we've had Rachel here.

Oh, yeah. And having you here. and I'm just always very pleased when I get to be around this whole, what I consider to be a childlike generation that's doing really good work. It makes me happy. Listen, I'll take that compliment

simply the youth factor because I don't think I'm young at all. Guess what? I am now, I love that. I am at a vintage now where I'll meet what I think is a kid and say, I think this kid's really coming along and I want to help this kid. And someone will tell me, they're 55.

that's their third hip I'm so glad I invest in facials you know what I mean it's good to keep the skin looking at but anyway I appreciate that thank you. This was great thank you so much for doing it. Thank you for having me everybody

appreciate it, thank you. All right, we've got to get to the bottom of something. Recently on a podcast episode it came to my attention because Blay was babbling and blurting. And Blay, you mentioned that your mom does your taxes. It was then revealed to us that, well, she doesn't do your taxes. She takes, she calls another tax service.

She uses turbotax. She uses turbo tax to take care of your taxes for you. That's right. She demands to do it, by the way. I just want to make that clear. I'm not asking her to do it. She gets upset when I even toss the idea out of me. Yeah, understood.

Okay. And that's not what we're going to go after here. Okay. What I want to investigate is you brought up at a certain point that you write off your various, I'm going to call them trinkets, doodads. What do you call them? Memorabilia. I would say arcana. This style feels, it feels reductive.

They're objects of power that I love to. What do we tell by? So listen, listen. You like, I'm a collector. I like stuff. I'm a collector of great items Okay, and things like I'm gonna give you a great example

You're like channeling Jordan A collector of great items Yeah, no no I just I want Swords like battle swords Okay, yes Like I bought a really cool Batman statue A statue of Batman

That's right A Batman statue done by In the style like Sergio You know the Mad Magazine guy Yeah I think it's Aragonus I believe Arragonis that's right I have a number of swords

You know flame thrower I just got an axe. But not just weapons. You also not just weapons. You also have like stuff relating to various things you're into whether it's... I have a dinosaur egg, a brontosaurus egg. A real one? That's right.

Okay. And, you know, meteorites. I have several like three or four meteorites. I have a cool... It's actually 70 million years old. It's a whale vertebrae. Sure. It's a giant.

It's kind of like the size of two... A big coffee can. I shouldn't have said memorabilia. You collect shit. And you have a lot of shit. And you... You write it off because you said you managed to mention it on the podcast. Well, we use it for the podcast.

How do we use it? Because it's the basis of comedy bits like this today. It's a page of a comedy bit. You just listed 20 things. And also like, so for instance, summer smores, I brought my, I bought a big broadsword at the Renfair. Which is your idea. Here's my point. I don't say, wouldn't it be cool if someone here had a broadsmore?

sword and you said, I happen to have one and you brought it in and then you were able to write it off, you go out and buy stuff and then you insert it into the podcast so that you can then write it off. And that's why I brought in Mr. David Melmed, who is our attorney who's helped us many times in the past. I sense fraud. I don't know about fraud. See, there we go. But, but, but, but in terms of what the IRS may be looking at, we're talking about.

section 162 of the Internal Revenue Code. What is section 162? Ordinary and necessary expenses can be deductible. Now, I guess the question is, are those ordinary and necessary? Are they necessary? It says and necessary. Is comedy necessary to this podcast? Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. It's not comedy. A bronchosaurus egg is not comedy until you foist upon the podcast, you barrel your way into the podcast and say, look at I got. I got a brinosaurus thing. We're all like, what the fuck you're talking about? Let's let Melman fish. And Melman, what's the rest of the law? Let me finish when you don't like the way I'm going. I like the way you're going. Let's rest of the law. In connection with the podcast. Yes, okay. All right. So let's take your

bronosaurus egg, for example, right? Let's. Let's get past the ordinary and necessary. If you didn't bring it into the podcast, would someone bring it up? Or is this something that you're doing to get a ride off? And I'm not going to put you on that. Well, how do they know of a pronosaurus sake if I don't bring it in? Well, okay. But you've mentioned it. Wait a minute.

This is becoming an insane who's on first routine. Yeah. No, I wouldn't have said, you know what this podcast needs is a broad sword or what it needs is a bronosaurus egg. I would never bring up any of those things. Sure. And they're not comedy in and of themselves. you are buying this stuff because you love it.

And then you're saying, I got to get this stuff onto Conan's podcast. And then you're claiming that it was a necessary part of your job. That, to me, feels all backwards. It could, well, so I'm going to go a little deeper on this. Let's let the law decide. I'm going to go a little deeper. So there's really two sides to this, right?

There's talent, right, and company expenses. So if he's bringing this on as on-air talent, using the mic, that's one thing. If you are, for example, using this as a company expense or an expense that the company would that could eat into the net revenue of the podcast. So can I ask a question? Yes. In terms of company expenses, so you're saying if I already used the sword to defend Conan

off Mike, that's a company expense. No, it would have to be in connection with the podcast. That's what I'm saying. He comes into the podcast and I'm using, and I'm defending him. physically from attackers. I'm seeing why you're not a lawyer. It's now apparent to me. I'm just asking a question.

So, Socratic method. Yes. All right. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I do it. So the act itself is not deductible.

Right. But the, but the, right? So you coming in with your sword. Yes. But us sort of cleaning up that mess could be deductible. So I'm just saying like, that mess. But I'm saying like, okay, there's two things.

There's talent, right? Yes. There's talent. Okay. So also, to make Conan fell asleep. I didn't fall asleep. I just got super sad. Where we were.

When we were in Altadena, when we recorded Somersmores and I brought in my sword. Yeah. We did a bit where we could hear wild animals that were crazy screaming in the distance, right? Yeah. So could I argue to the IRS, I'm there to defend Conan? No, boy. No, boy. You're being crazy.

You think that people don't write stuff off in crazy ways? I'm bobbing and weaving. You know, no, hold on a second. I don't treat the IRS that way. But I guess you'd like to bob and weave and try and trick Uncle Sam out of his rightful do. Johnny Law's got his scratch. He doesn't need my couple bucks. Okay, you got to settle down.

I'm going to take you off, Mike, for a little bit. Okay. I wish I had a button that silence blay. Okay. And I would use it so routinely. I might have to just put a bunch of books on top of it. I'll stop talking. I want a silence play button right here, and then I'm going to build permanent structures on top of it.

I'm not comfortable with this interpretation. I do think we all need to pay our fair share. I think that the. Those things you're buying, they bring you pleasure, they bring you joy. I haven't unreleased the button yet. This is the button and when I touch it. I have a question too when you're done. Okay.

You'll have the floor after me and then anyone else who wants to. But anyway, yeah, I guess my issue is these are his hobbies. And then through the grace of some God we don't understand who works in mysterious ways, he has access to this podcast and he's bullied his way up to a mic. And now he's inserting himself into the show and saying, hey, you know what I was thinking about this morning? I was thinking about the Scarlet Witch's cape. That's what I was thinking about.

And I'm like, the Scarlet Witch, yeah, she's a Marvel heroine. I was thinking about her cape and I bought one. Let's have fun talking about that. It all feels manipulative. Sure. It feels sinister. and it feels like it is, I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's in the spirit of the law.

It's a bit overreaching. Yes, yes. It's overreaching. And then let me, hold on, we'll get to you, Blay. Eventually, I don't know what month, but we'll get there. Sona, what do you want to say? I wanted to say, all of these things are what make Blay play. I know.

Yeah. So, and you've mined a lot of that from him, who he is. You've talked about his watches a lot. You've talked about the fact that he has a giant wall-sized pronounce. out of his face in his apartment. Yeah. We don't need to say, we don't need to give him more ammunition. What is Blay without the dinosaur eggs?

But listen, but listen, I can see his watches. I can see these things. And I, Blay doesn't need to work at making himself seem more ridiculous or man-childy. He doesn't need to work at it. It's all, this is my problem sometimes with Blay, is that he should just trust in his natural nerdiness and his natural Peter Pan syndrome, you know. No, and this is all the stuff that you have. It's natural and I can see that you wear a different ironic watch every day that never

cost more than $3 and often doesn't have hands on it so you can't tell time because you've got nowhere to be. I can see all this shit myself. I don't need help. But when you come in and yours plan is today I'm going to dominate the podcast with my Brontosaurus egg that I just bought, then I say, Then I smell a rat. I smell a rat.

Can I speak? Yeah. Okay. I, here's what I want to say. I think it is, to Sona's point, we do, there is a lot, we come up with a lot of bits on the spot, on this podcast. And yes, I have a lot of cool stuff, all right? No, you don't. No, I got a lot.

You don't have a lot of cool stuff. Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. But my point being, I have this stuff anyway. I think it's, I, what I want to say is, I, I want to say is, I don't. I don't go into. You have it anyway. I think you may want to read. Listen.

No, listen. You should. What I meant was. What I meant was. You may want to revise that. Hold on. Freeze. Freeze.

You may want to revise that. Go ahead. You don't. If you had it anyway, you probably couldn't deduct it. But I'm giving you a chance to. No. What I'm saying is like this.

What I'm saying is this. Do you want to fix what you just said? I'll say this. I'm not going to fix it because it's honest. I have a sword. Okay. Right? I have a sword.

Many swords. And I'm going to the rent fare. all right and I'm at the rent fare and I'm like oh man I should get a sword and bring it in because it could be a good comedy bit so I buy another sword and that's what I'm writing off because it's for a comedy bit I'm not writing off the one I already have I'm like I'm taking things from my life and heightening them to use a comedy turn okay so why why do you think this show needs so much help with comedy I don't think it needs help why do you think this show is just is is is is is bereft of all entertainment unless you go go out and buy a feathered helmet. I should bring it in to save us. I serve. No. Poor Conan O'Brien can't think of a thing.

That's, that's projection. I just bought it. I just bought it some underwear made of caramel at a rent fair. I would buy that. That's projection. I do not do that. As a producer, I like to give my host a buffet of choices from which he can, from which he can pick and choose.

Maybe he's going to, maybe I'm offering mac of cheese. Maybe. Oh. When we're saying, what should we do for a segment? And Sona says, oh, this happened to me. Hopping is like, this happened to me. I say, hey, I just bought a sword at the rent fare. What do you think about this?

Sometimes you choose from my bucket. Sometimes you choose from others. And if you choose from my bucket, then, you know, it's all worked out. What I do is I live for this podcast. Can I write off stuff too? I live my life in service of this podcast. Can I write off my edibles? He can't stop.

You can't stop. Yeah. I want to write off all my edibles. You talked about going to Disneyland with your kids. Yeah, can I write that off? Can she write those tickets off? Okay. All right, I'm going to use my wife's favorite phrase, which is there's a lot to unpack here.

That's for you, Liza. Stop saying it. And we are going to continue this in another episode because this is vital, vital to the American interest. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian and Matt Goreley. Produced by me, Matt Goreley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leow. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

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