Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - David Cross

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Actor and comedian David Cross feels envious about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. David sits down with Conan to discuss his incredible career in comedy, being attacked by his audience, passing down cherished comedic influences through generations, and his new special I’m From the Future. Later, Sona looks back ruefully on her most recent temper tantrum. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone]. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com.

Hi, my name is David Cross and I feel envious about being Conan O'Brien's friend. You're envious of me because I get to be your friend. I'm envious of myself for getting to be your friend. I got lost as well. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walk in the blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna be friends. I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hello there. Welcome to...

What was that? You don't like my hello there? You were doing all these bits before, like picking up a phone and pretending you were talking to someone and then all of a sudden you got serious. Here's the problem. And I'm explaining this because we're using this open, but I... Don't you think we should, Gourley? Yes, I do. Okay, so basically they need to know we were screwing around acting like fools and then Matt said, okay, let's get going. And I suddenly switched from, I have an old timey phone on my desk and I was pretending, I was doing some stupid bit as I do. And then it was time to start our supposedly comedic podcast, but you said, let's get going.

So I put the phone down, took one second and just went, hello there. And you guys start laughing and because, and you're right, it's so stupid. So dumb. I'm not this respected figure that needs to say, and now the news, you know, of course still, you know, it's absurd. Why did I go from doing stupid bits with you guys that weren't being recorded? Yeah. Just being dumb and Sona saying, I'm stupid and me saying, yeah, well, idiot called and it says it's you, whatever, whatever dumb stuff we're doing back and forth. Trying to hit me with whatever you had rolled up through the computer.

Yeah. We're doing something weird. We're on Zoom and I have a glasses case and I was trying to jab you with it through Zoom. So all of this absolutely inane foolishness. And then Gourley says, not it's time to start the eye operation on the patient, which then it would make sense to like, okay, guys, settle down. Gourley, what you're saying is it's time to stop this foolishness to begin the foolishness. The actual bullshit dick around begins now. Yes.

Yeah. Stop this bullshit dick around and then I'm going to pull this lever. And so I said, okay. And then suddenly just change. When did you do this tone of hello there? And like, well, who's that guy? You become the full Cronkite. Let's try again.

We'll keep all this stuff, but just be yourself. Ready? Three, two, one. Well, Sona's bad. What? What? I'm sorry. I thought you wanted me to be myself.

No, why? Well, admit you're kind of. That wasn't creative at all. That was so bad. Oh, wait. You don't think it's creative? So you think I was just saying the truth? No, I respect your slams when they have some creativity behind it.

When you're just like, Sona's bad. Here's why Picasso was great. Oh, come on. He was an incredible draftsman and incredible. Great man. Yeah, but also, I didn't say that, able to, realistic. He could, he was, he was great at depicting. He could depict anything.

He could draw the human hand beautifully, which is very difficult to do. He had studied anatomy. He knew what to do, but then he blew it up by going to the simple shapes, simple shapes. And that's what I just did. I've had my sophisticated Sona slams, but like Picasso, it's now like 1917. And I'm deciding, I got to blow it up and do something that'll blow everyone's mind. And my new riff is Sona's bad. Oh, let's hear another one of these blown up Sona slams.

That's, that's my, that's my Cubism. Oh God. It's awful. Sona's unprofessional. There. You are. Stupid. No, I don't like this.

Cubism. Because it's true. It's not even like it's like funny because it's, it's like, yeah, I am unprofessional. State some more facts. Let's, yeah, I don't know. No, no, I, no, I just, this is my Cubist period and you guys say this is no good just saying Sona's bad. But when they do put, and I believe this is artwork, what we're doing.

Oh, no. When this is put, when, yes, a hundred years from now, when people want to buy the digital snippet of me saying Sona's bad, it's going to be at Christie's auction house. It's going to be framed somehow. Don't ask me how. And it's going to be worth $35 million. Which will be about $350. I know.

That was such an Austin Powers moment where Dr. Evil is like, and the ransom is $10,000. Dr. Evil. What? Oh, it's not 1968 anymore. All right. Anyway, I promise to become even less professional as we move forward. And these openings of the podcast will continue to deteriorate, but no more clowning around today.

We've got to get to it. My guest today is an actor and comedian, you know, from the hilarious sketch comedy series Mr. Show and the Emmy Award winning series, Arrested Development. Good God. I've seen every one of those episodes like five times. What a brilliant show. His new comedy special, David Cross. I'm from the future.

He's out now. I'm excited to chat with him today. David Cross, welcome. I want to be fair. This is your 12th podcast today. You are really fried. You just came from comedy bang bang, I believe. I did.

And yeah, I've been running around. We call it the Ockerman Waltz and that takes it out of you. It does. And you know, you got to be on top of, you got to be a tip top shape. Tip top shape, yes. And all your improv skills have to be, your synapses have to be great. Here you can relax. Trust me.

This is the shady little Glen in the woods where you can just hang out. You don't have to be in top anything to be on this podcast. That's fantastic. Can I fart? I'd rather you, just to let go. I'd rather you simulate it. Can I tell you, this is true, a thing that you said long, long time ago. It might have been the first time I ever hung out with you.

Maybe, maybe. You just stand up on my show in 90, you were early. This is before you had a, or you might have just gotten the talk show. This is before that. Where were you? And I can tell you a little bit more about this interview. I'm not exactly sure. We were either in New York or LA.

I know Janine was there and Bob was there. Janine Garofalo, Bob Odenkirk. Yep, Bob Odenkirk. And we were, there were probably, I'm going to say at least eight people. And we were at a dinner and you and I were sitting across from each other, much like we are currently. Yes. And eating delicious food as we are right now.

Yes. And then you, whatever you got, whatever the thing was, I'm going to, I'm going to switch up the order of how I say this because there's a, there's a dairy brand that is in, in my grocer's freezer and it's a ridiculous name and it's called Cream O'Land and it's, you know, milk. Right. Cream O'Land milk, yes. Yeah.

And, and I always, and I'm talking like once a week will pop into my head because you were served something and then you just took a bite and you went, mmm, creamy. And it's the most innocuous thing and it just stuck in my head. I'm sorry. And whenever I see Cream O'Land, I'm sorry. Creamy. Creamy. That sounds like me circa 1989, I'm going to guess that was, or 1990.

I don't think it was that early. I didn't know Bob until 90. Maybe it was pretty, I don't know. Right. I think you had just gotten the show or it was. I knew Bob Odenkirk and obviously you and Bob come together for Mr. Show, which we're going to talk about so many things to talk about and so much comedy stuff to nerd out on.

But you and I come from this same era of comedy. I distinctly remember being out here and there was this LA period where I was through Bob meeting all these cool people. That's how I got to meet Jeanine Garofalo. I remember her hanging out once when Bob and I were shooting baskets. And if you've ever seen two guys that shouldn't be shooting baskets, it's me and Bob Odenkirk. And also we do bits the whole time we were shooting baskets. One of my bits was I was the Phantom and I would pull my shirt up over my head and be

very pompous about how no one knows my identity while taking shots. And Bob, the straight man would say, Phantom, if you took the shirt off, your shots would go in and I would braid him. We would do this. Jeanine was there saying, these people are idiots. Then he joins forces with you and you guys do Mr. Show had such a clear comedy vision that and you were very true to that comedy vision. And I've heard you talk about it before, but you talk about how a lot of us were influenced

by Python, but you guys really wanted the show to have a very distinctive tone like Python so that if anything happened on the show, no matter what order you saw the sketch or where you saw the sketch, you knew this is a Mr. Show sketch. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Amongst other things. We had certain and Bob was really more specific about that kind of stuff.

And it was Bob's idea to not have, I mean, we did it a couple of times, but to try to avoid reoccurring characters and that we wouldn't mention specific celebrities. If there was a sketch about something that was very topical and it would have been obvious if it was say like Paris Hilton or somebody of the time and is to not make it about Paris Hilton, but about that idea and to not name people who are current events. And I think that's helped keep it kind of not dated. Well, I think that's my favorite stuff or the stuff that I've liked the most or I think the stuff that anything I've been involved in, we call it evergreen comedy, just because

it's just silly. And I find in general, I gravitate towards that kind of comedy. That's what I like the most. Yeah. And Python did that too. I mean, Python might mention a certain minister that was a real person in the 70s that a 13-year-old kid in Roswell, Georgia is going to have no concept of, but I understood the context. Right.

I got the idea of what they were talking about. You know, I was so influenced by Python and later on, all of us have had the chance to have these encounters with different pythons here and there. And I always try to impart on them like, you guys were the atom bomb blasts for a lot of us. You guys were the ones that, and I don't mean that they killed hundreds of thousands of people instantly. I mean, over the years with radiation, over the years of radiation, they did.

And they started a brinksmanship between Russia and America that was really destructive. Other than that, I think what Python really did was they completely opened up this whole massive continent of comedic possibilities that the rest of us saw. And we think about it, Python starts in 1969, and I thought 15 years later, America still hadn't come close to catching up because I was seeing Python in reruns when I was a young teenager, 14, 15, 16, and it was just completely changing my idea of comedy. And sometimes I just even, if I tried to write a sketch when I was very young, people had British accents in it, and it was just, I wrote one in particular, and I remember really

clearly doing it, and people were saying, why is everyone speaking in a British accent? And I was like, oh, fuck, just do it, just don't be mean, just do it like that, because it beats a Boston accent any day. And all, and think about how when you're a kid and you're with like-minded kids, how many times did you, you know, we're the knights who say neat and try to, and that was your like, almost secret code with other comedy nerds, especially when you were around the jocks or whatever, and they didn't know what, why is that cracking this kid up? He keeps saying, me, or whatever the, you know-

No, it was a secret way to let people know, oh, we are a small band of hobbits who've been banished to the forest, there are very few of us left, most were killed by orcs, but this is how we'll let each other know that- You're part of the tribe. We're part of the tribe. But one of the things that interests me is I know you come originally from the South, but then you make your way to Boston when you start doing comedy, to stand up. That is not always the most welcoming place for alternative or original comedy.

Maybe it's changed a lot, but for a while there, that could be a tough place to finally develop, to try and develop your kind of sensibility. Well, I got extremely lucky in the timing of that, and you're right. And I don't think the, you know, what's become known as alternative comedy didn't really kind of, there wasn't a term for it yet. There was no term for it, right. People back then just said, you're not funny. That's what we called it.

Well, they go, you're not funny, faggot. What are you laughing, you know, there's a lot of- That was the 19, that was, yeah, that was 1986. It was tough, man. So, yeah, so I got very, very lucky on the timing that the comedy boom, which was a real thing that was happening, really the kind of episode was, you know, Boston was huge. It was between, when you think about New York, LA, Boston, San Francisco, where I'd say for stand up were the kind of big places, Boston was the, you know, per capita had more

places to do stand up than those other three. And they needed bodies to go up on stage. They just needed to fill spots. And if it had been two years prior or three years post, I don't think I would have gotten the opportunities that, because I mean, they just, because I bombed a lot of times. And I was definitely a comics comic. I was still finding my voice and I shouldn't say I bombed all the time. That's not true.

But in certain venues, when they need somebody to go up and fill 20 minutes at some cowboy bar in Methuen, you know, I'm not going to have the greatest set. Sometimes to thrive in that environment, you need to really be able to handle hecklers and people who aren't. And if you're spending a lot of time doing that, you might be developing the wrong muscle, which can be tricky, you know? I mean, famously what I've always heard or sensed is that San Francisco was very well welcoming, comedically or traditionally was very welcoming for people that had offbeat

ideas that they wanted to try on stage, almost as opposed to a Boston, which, you know, could be a much tougher environment. Yeah. But it toughens you up. You get a thicker skin and that's an equally useful skill, you know, to, if you go into something saying there's a fairly good chance, let's say a 65% chance, I'm just going to have an awful miserable set, you know, in order to keep doing that, you have to psychologically adjust.

Right. You know? So I think that was helpful. But there's something like, you're like an RAF pilot. You know that it's 1940, the Germans are attacking in force, you're going up in your little spit fire, 80% chance you don't come back, I don't know, it might, it might heighten the senses a little bit, you know? Some great comedy came out of the RAF in 1940.

Yeah. I mean, it's probably the best analogy you could make. I think so. That's your second war analogy. Oh, there's going to be more. If you think that's the only one I've got, hold on a second. I think if this comedy episode is of the podcast is kind of a Gallipoli, if you will. Sure.

Yeah. Last stand. Yeah. Fodder. There's something that happens around this time where you're, I always think there are different phases, and I don't mean just for us, but what you just said about the timing, I think about this all the time, which is timing was essential for me in luck, just dumb luck.

Oh, sure. At that place without, for me. But just me coming along, you know, coming along at the time that I did, if I had shown up a few years earlier, I'd be measuring you for insoles somewhere, do you know what I mean? Yeah. But it just happened that this was a time when it was possible for me to maybe get into comedy, and here we are all these years later.

It's one of the most satisfying things that can happen in one's life. Not only are you making lifelong friends and people you can work on projects with, but then you get to kind of do the same for others, you know, like anybody who's in the position that I was in, or you were in back then, and you can recognize it, and you see some talent, you just sort of, you bring them in, you make an effort. I mean, Bob was extremely responsible for Tim and Eric, and their rise and, you know, and getting them a show, and look how many people they've influenced, you know. Right.

And it's just a... I believe in what you just said, unless they're very talented, and then I try and... It's called kill them in the crib. I try and take them out of the game very quickly before they can be a threat. I was saying this before, though, and tell me what you think, because I haven't thought it out completely, but the stand-up world, the comedy world to a larger extension, but the stand-up world is, I would say, probably the most supportive, creative community. More than, at least from what I understand, like visual artists and maybe playwrights

and actors, certainly. I'm going to broaden that out to include improv. Yeah. And that's because I didn't come from stand-up, I came from improv and met people who were incredibly, hey, supportive, and said, hey, you're good at this, you should try this now, you should do that, and would push me and direct me, and also kind of give me some of the best advice that I ever had in terms of getting up in front of an audience. And help.

It help you get in front of an audience, and there's less ego backstabbing, bitter recrimination type shit. That comes later. I started getting into that about a year ago. How's it going? I'm like Nixon, I have an enemy's list. You have a list? Yeah.

Who's next on the list? Oh, well, I keep putting people on the list, and then people tell me they've died, that they're already gone. Regis was on my list, like, I'm going to get him, and he never, he was only nothing but lovely to me, but I just was like, oh, Regis. It's who you've become. I'll get you. That's what this world has turned you into.

I'm very paranoid. I was very paranoid about Regis for a long time. I want the listeners at home or in your car, wherever you are, to know that it is positively freezing in this room, and I appreciate it. Can I point something out? Yeah. You are wearing not just a shirt, but you are wearing a lumberjack shirt over it. I've got a flannel, yeah.

A flannel. I am wearing just a T-shirt, because I wanted you to see my musculature as soon as I can. That's the Massachusetts in you. Yeah. I want to show you what I'm fucking made of, but it is very cold in here. I don't know why. I think there's meat stored in the corner. There you go.

There's a lot of... And a body. Yeah. Oh, my God, it's Regis. Forgot to dispose of the body. How long has that been there? Well, three years. That's why the clothes he's wearing are out of fashion.

No, it's interesting to me. This is something that I think about when I think about the work that you've done, especially Mr. Show, and I want to talk about your stand-up special, I'm From the Future, and your stand-up in general, which is somewhere along the line, you learned to take incredible chances. You start your stand-up special, I'm From the Future, and I don't want to give anything away. I don't want to give anything away. But you started with telling this story, and I won't give anything away, but I will say

that I was watching it saying, it is impossible, the whole year digging yourself with this story. I was watching it and I was thinking, as someone who does this for a living and has thought about comedy for such a long time, I thought, I don't know why he's doing this, but there's no way he can get out of this hole. He's really digging a deep, deep hole, and you hear the audience get really quiet, and I encourage you to check this out. You dig an incredibly deep hole, and then in one sentence, you flip everything around, and it's very funny, and everyone's with you, and I was like, okay, shit, all right.

That was frightening for me as a viewer. I don't know how frightening it was for you performing it. I was so delighted when I figured, I was looking for a way to talk about that stuff, and I don't want to talk too much about it because people haven't seen it, but I was looking for a way and I just couldn't find the end to that subject matter, and then I was literally at dinner with my wife and some friends, and then it just occurred to me, I was like, oh, I know what I'll do. I'll do this.

And luckily, I live in Brooklyn, and my fans are very forgiving, and so I was able to develop that bit, and really, it's about how far do I take this, and when is it too much, and figuring out- But I can see how much you love. There's that, and again, we're talking about something that I don't want to get specific about because you need to check out the special, but there are many times in the special where you walk up to the line, you kind of stick a toe over the line, pull it back a little bit, but then I can see you, you want to, if slightly encouraged or even not, step a

little more over the line and really play with that, and that's something to me that you don't develop. That's something that I'm guessing you had when you were 17 years old. Yeah, for sure. When I was first starting out and I was starting to get road work and I'd have to go to Augusta for a week or Corpus Christi or wherever, I always knew when I was going out and in those situations, I'd do my set, and then I'd come back and the headliner, if the headliner said something like, boy, kid, you got some balls, I knew he was going to suck.

I shouldn't say suck, but I knew what I could expect, and I don't mean this to sound pompous or whatever, but it doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel to me like I'm taking the risk that it appears to others that I'm taking because I don't, it just, I guess I just don't think of it in terms, those terms, so there have been a few bits over the years where I would do it and I would get a little tense because I thought maybe am I going to get beat up? Is somebody going to rush the stage? Somebody could throw something, and there have been a handful of those, so I'm aware

of the thing I'm doing, but for the most part, it's just, that's part of the fun and part of the joy of it, and look, an audience and several audiences in a row will let me know if like, okay, that's enough, that's too much, and if I can't justify it and defend it by, it's funny, here's why it's funny, here's why it works, then I'll go, you're right, that is too much, it's not, and it fucks up your set, it fucks up the whole, you know. So that, let's say an audience lets you know, you've gone too far, or that made us uncomfortable, it was too much, do you carry that with you for a while, or can you etch a sketch that pretty quickly, can you shake it off, you know?

Both, kind of, I mean, you have to shake it off, but yes, you think about it, and look, there have been a couple times where I was, you know, people came on stage, like I literally have been, especially with religious stuff, more than anything else. For example, you being upfront about your, you know, belief, your lack of belief. And making jokes, it's all in the context, you know, it's not a TED talk or anything, I mean, I'm doing, I'm trying my best to- I've been charged during TED talks, I've had people come on stage, and it's been people like Sonia Sotomayor and Bill Gates that tackle me, beat the shit out of me.

Together, like together. Together, they always attack together, they're very good, they're, they're, they're like ninjas. They have a strategy, they flank on the side, and yeah, I mean, it's, it's- Well, did anyone ever hit you? No, I had it at Stitches, the old Stitches in Boston, I had- Well, this is how it got its name, probably. Somebody threw one of those like, thick glass ashtrays, this is back when they had Smoking,

this is how a few long ago, and it missed me, but I mean, that thing would have really done some damage. And I had a guy, I was in Baton Rouge, and there was a bunch of like kind of frat type of guys, but little doughier frat guys, and this guy stood up and he did the classic, you know, beating the palm into the- Palm into fist. Palm into fist thing. I'll beat you, yeah.

Yeah, and, and I was, I tried to make some joke, he's like, this is gonna be you after the show, I'm gonna be waiting for you. And you know, you leave the stage, and you run, and you try to get protection. I've had, over the years, I've had, I had a guy come up on stage, I was doing stuff about whatever, some Jesus stuff, whatever it was, and a guy came up on stage, and there was a table with a pitcher of water, and he stared at me, and he poured the pitcher of water, I wish you could see this because it was, it's, part of it is a visual, visual, but pitcher poured the pitcher of water into the glass, and then stared at me as he drank

the water, which was supposed to be intimidating, and kind of was, but also, I will hydrate you, but also was, the oddest, like, what? It's so weird. It was very weird. You know, it's so funny too, it's just like, this is you after the show, drinking a glass of water. And then after the show, he's in the, he's in the alley, and he's just like, you know, I just think it's important to hydrate.

I worry. I was, I was speculating you was thirsty. It was such a strange thing, because he stared at me, you know, and he knew he had, because believe me, I, I was, it was a mass exodus. People were not into the set, and any, and he came on stage, and there's no security. This is a college. It was St. Louis University, and, and, which is a Jesuit school, which I didn't know until I was there.

That's my question. I'll get to my question in a second, but just so you know where I'm going, who's booking? Because it's so funny to me when people said, you know, we've got, we're a lovely group of Methodists, and we're going to have a dinner of grilled lamb with mint sauce, then we're going to have a prayer circle, and then we've hired a comedian to come in who doesn't believe in an afterlife and is hostile towards the concept of Jesus as the son of man. Hey, what the hell happened? Yeah, well.

I'm always stunned by that. I, I, I mean, I'll, I'll, it was a, it was a one-off college university gig, and those pay pretty well, and it was, I was in New York, and, you know, it's a fly out for it. They asked for you special, they, and I, so I didn't know any of this at the time. I just know it's St. Louis University, and two kids picked me up at the airport, and I'm in the backseat, and I, I'm just kind of peppering them with questions just to see if I got a, you know, opening minute or two to, to chat before I go into my set, you know, and so, tell me about, I don't think I'd been to St. Louis before, I'm not sure if

I had, but ask them a couple of questions, and, you know, tell me about the school. The guy's driving, he's like, yeah, we're, you know, it's the oldest Jesuit school in the country, and it was founded in, by Father Franciscan, you know, and I was like, I'm, I'm sorry, it's a Jesuit school? Yeah. And then I, I said for, and I'm, quote, I was like, have you seen my act? And the other kid, it was a girl, goes, you're the Jesuit-me guy, right? No.

Oh, yeah. They thought you were David Spade. No, no, sorry. I was on Jesuit-me, I did, I had done this running character that was, and I had this, there was this catchphrase, well, it became a thing called, it was Chick-Bot, Chick-Bot, Chick-Bot Pie. Yeah. And I got- They only knew that.

They only knew that. They knew I'd done some other things, but they knew me as the, the Jesuit-me guy. You're slow, Donnie, from Jesuit-me. That's the thing I always thought about, say, with, you know, recently passed Bob Saget, is there's so many people that thought, America's Funniest Home Videos, and he's the dad on our favorite sitcom that we watched with our kids, let's get him for the event, and, well, we all know, dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty, filthy man. But I don't know, I just, I'm always stunned when people will, I was somewhere, and it

was some snooty event, and they had had, I don't know why I was there, but I was at some snooty event. The Met Ball, the Met Gala. Sure, yes, yes, and I- I know you're a regular there. People were, always want me at the Met Gala, and I had, you know, worn my outfit and walked in, and the crowd went crazy. No, I was at some snooty event, and it was sort of older blue blood types, and they were upset, and I forget what I did.

I did whatever I did, and they were, they, they laughed and thought it was funny, and they were saying, well, we had a very unpleasant time not long ago. We had this gentleman kid rock come, and I said, what? And it would, well, someone, someone knew someone who knew someone, and they brought him in, and he was, you know, and he was, he was quite abusive. I just, I always, my question is always, who's booking? Yeah. It's my favorite thing in the world is, hey, it's a kid's party, chill, relax, six-year-olds.

We got Rodney Dangerfield, he'll be here in a minute, and, why, why, why, air is ice watering. Why? I don't know, I'm just, I find that to be one of life's great pleasures, is just, who's somewhere in the cosmos, someone's playing a great joke on everybody, but. I mean, they, well, these, these people contacted somebody, because they, I mean, you know, in the, I think of that student, you know, they have the, the fund for, you know, they get three, four people a year, and, and I guess I was a cut rate, you know, I was brought

in. Yeah, someone said, trust me, this is gonna be good, I've seen him on a very fun sitcom that I watch with my parents, and he's gonna be nice. And maybe he'll say that line over and over again for an hour. Yeah. That thing we loved. It reminds me of Man on the Moon, Jim Carrey, portraying Eddie Kaufman, and he, he goes to the classic gig with his character, Shrek, from Taxi, and he ends up getting angry, and

he sits down and he just reads. Great Gatsby. Great Gatsby. Yeah. You have Scott Fitzgerald, and he reads it page to page, and leaves, and so there's that element. I know there's something, when I saw the documentary about Eddie Kaufman and wrestling, I had a lot.

I always liked Andy Kaufman, but when I saw the wrestling documentary where he's- I don't think I've seen that. Oh my God. It's so incredible, but he- What, what is it called? Where do I check that? It's called Andy Kaufman on Wrestling, and what he does is it's just all the real footage of him traveling throughout the South, taunting people. Yeah.

You know, he played intentionally the most awful, who would they most hate to see? Yeah. Hollywood. He would get in the ring, and he would taunt his opponent, and then, of course, when his opponent came out, he'd run away, and then when the opponent was turned, he'd kick him, and then it'd say, if you touch me, I'll sue you, and then he'd go on and on about his Jewish lawyers in New York, just so you could see people in the crowd losing their minds. Yeah.

That was 80s. That was early 80s, right? Late 70s. I think late 70s, or 1980s. Just ballsy is. Yeah. He went on, I think he went on, I mean, this is famous, people know, but he goes on television at one point, and he's holding up local television, and he's like, hello, I'd like to show you

something, because he's somewhere in the deep south. This is a bar of soap. You might want to try it, and people came to that event to see him die. The best wrestling villain ever. Yeah, because he really got under people's skin, and, of course, didn't mean any of it, but I just wanted to see, did I get this straight, because I was looking at, there's a bunch of your influences that make sense to me, like Bill Hicks and Andy Kaufman, and Monty Python, and Stephen Wright, obviously, and Richard Pryor, and then I saw Lou Costello.

Is that the Lou Costello of Appen Costello? Yeah, in the sense that when I was young. My dad was pretty awful, but one of the best things he gave me was a love of comedy, and he loved Laurel and Hardy and Appen Costello, and I really, really, for whatever reason, beyond Mark's brothers and Laurel, I really loved Appen Costello, and Lou Costello was just the funniest guy to me when I was, I mean, I'm talking like when I was seven, eight, nine, 10, whatever, and I would watch all the movies, and yeah, I wouldn't say he's necessarily an influence, but it was an early love of that thing.

Well, I liked that you said that because, like you, I grew up in an era where there wasn't, television existed, but there wasn't enough content. So my dad, who was quite nice, but the similarity with your dad is that he also, it was important that my dad, for my dad to show me this stuff, and he saw that I was interested and I knew that he was interested and it was a way for us to connect, and so he was very interested in showing me W.C. Fields, Mark's brothers, Charlie Chaplin, but it also was on TV a lot, they used to run that stuff, and now, I would have to say to my son, I'm gonna go and show you, rather than watching all of the great stuff.

I was gonna ask, do you have that, do you desire that, or do you have that connection with your kids? Yes, yeah. Yeah, I do. I have a very much, I have a 18-year-old daughter and I have a 16-year-old son, and I love showing them stuff that I thought was really funny and having them like it, and I'm just, that is just the best. When did you, at what age did you-

And when I talk stuff, I'm just showing them all late night shows from the 90s. And they're like, dad, it's not that good, and this clutch cargo is going on way too long. I'm like, you're gonna watch it again! Dad, you had cheekbones. Shut up! What age did you start doing that? Pretty early.

I think one of the things that I showed them that made me happy is my dad used to take me to see, it was a big deal when a new Pink Panther movie came along, because I love Peter Sellers, and it was a big deal, we'd go and see it in the theater, and I would see my dad laugh till he was crying at Inspector Clouseau and the insanity of it, and- And how old are you at this point? I think I start seeing them when I'm 11, 12, 13. And so, when I remember showing my kids one, and it's tense because you think, if you tell your kids, gather round, we're gonna watch something, and you get them seated, and you

show it and unveil it, and they're not having it, it's a total, it feels like you bombed on a massive stage somehow, because it's your kids, but they loved it and they wanted more, and we ended up watching all of them, and I felt like this is great, like this is the circle of, to me, this is the circle of life. My dad shows me the Marx Brothers, then I show my kids Night at the Opera, and they love it, and wow, this is as good as it gets. Yeah, that's great. I'm looking forward to, we still have a couple years to go, but looking forward to introducing

my daughter to that stuff. But you know what's interesting is like in our, I'm talking about like an old man, but in our era, this stuff, you couldn't avoid it because local television, they packed it with... You're absolutely right, it's a completely different... Right, so now it's like a thing you have to choose to do, which is, I want to show you, like it's their criterion collection, I want to show you horse feathers, or I want to show you...

They would not find it on their own. Right, they wouldn't find it on their own, and they'd say like, well, wait a minute, if we can watch anything, why don't we watch this latest, why don't we watch Dune, or why don't we watch this thing that's the new Glossy, and you have to make a real argument for, well, it's going to be in black and white, you're not going to understand some of it, but it's really fantastic. In our day, it was just what was on TV, and no one was presenting it to us, it was, look, it's this, or you can watch the Catholic Mass on the other channel, and I'm not watching

that. So there's this, or yeah, or there's the flag waving. I also think when you bring up Luke Costello, I think of Abbott and Costello, he was, but Abbott was the greatest straight man of all time, and really, what are you talking about? What did you do that to the man for? He keeps the lines so tight between the two of them that I've always blown away by that. You probably know this, but you know that for years and years and years, that the straight man was like 60, 40, was cut.

The straight man was the more valuable person in the act, which doesn't make sense when you think about it now. You've got the straight man, and then you've got the wacky person, but it was originally thought that, no, the straight man, it's Martin, then Dean, it's Dean Martin, then Jerry Lewis. Nobody is watching Abbott and Costello meet the werewolf or whatever because of but Abbott. They're not. Nobody. They're waiting for the set piece where the werewolf is going to fall down and get hit

and all that stuff. Or get tapped on the shoulder and then realize it's Frankenstein and then do 20 minutes of being and yeah, but I would say, I don't know, I always find it fascinating that there's, I can talk to someone like you and I just, I never get over it like, huh, okay, so you come from this unhappy experience in your youth and all this, you could say like, wow, you've been placed as far from, you're not really given any leg up in any way, but you have it in you. You have that thing in you.

You search out all these different, first of all, as a kid, you're finding on television wherever you can find it, these people that make you laugh. You've probably find in yourself, there's something about this I like. You make your way to Boston, you keep at it and then the next thing you know at just the right time in the story, you're meeting Bob Odenkirk, you're meeting Ben Stiller and then you're meeting more people and then the next thing you know, you're part of this movement and then there's Mr. Show and then you're on Arrested Development and then you get to a point where people can cite things in your career and you never know what thing you're

going to cite because you've done about 85 different things, you know. And some of the most popular are things that I'm not even all that familiar with and really does depend on kind of age and ethnicity and cultural background, but I mean, scary movie too, I still get that a lot, lots and lots and lots a lot. And Alvin and the Chipmunks, you know, people were kids when they watched it and now those kids are teenagers and the good thing is it opens them up to other stuff I've done, you know, I'll run into some 17-year-old who like never heard of Todd Margaret and then because of this thing and that thing, they're like, oh my God.

But it, you said something that made me think that it just comes full circle with the, you know, it's still whether you're 13 and you're in a weird kind of hostile environment and then you, like we were talking about with Python, you find other people and it's almost like a secret handshake and you find those people and you stick with them and all the way up through now with our individual successes and we still have lifelong friends that have a secret code talk and we can talk about things that other people and the people that you mentioned at the stuffy place are not going to get and you, you know, if you or if you were there and it was, you know, Bob or Smigal or me or Janine or somebody, you would have

these inside jokes that only we would get. Right. And that's been, I have to say of everything, that's been the part that I have enjoyed the most. Yeah. It's the whole Robin Hood aspect of it, which is you make your way along, you start out as one person, you start to pick up people and then you have your troop and, and in life, you know, not just in career in your, in your life.

No, I'm the only time I'm good at separating the, I keep them very separate. My wife understands. What are you, why are you calling me here? I told you never to call me here. Look, it's exclusive to being in comedy. You only want to talk to other people in comedy and every now and then, and that doesn't go too well. My wife actually in a, she's started as like a, a joke, but she kind of means it when she's

like, especially if I, we're out and I'm like with John Benjamin or somebody like that. And she's like, guys, no bits after 10, no serious, no bits after 10. I used to do so many bits so much, this is years ago, but with Will Arnett because he can't be serious and I can't be serious. And you know, the way they say certain times that no, they're famous killing duos like Leopold and Loeb or the, the people that committed those terrible inco-blood murders where they think none of them would have done these things individually, but put them together and they create a unit that will kill everyone in the house.

The problem I have is that when Will Arnett's around, he won't be real. I won't be real. And it's an evening of bits. And I remember years and years ago, back when they were newly married, Amy Poehler would see me show up at something that they were at and she would come up preemptively and go like, guys, guys just, just okay, a few bits and then that's, that's it. And she would just in that very, I love Amy, but she's got this very common sense kind of like, you know, guys, okay, that's it.

That's it. That's enough. We did it. You were, he was the colonel and you were the private. And you know, he was the donkey and you were the guy that, that hits the dog. Good. That's enough. I'm calling it.

You know, it's almost like she had a rep's whistle. It's tough on wives. It's tough on wives, whether they're in the business or not. Yeah. And children. My kids are, my kids are tired of it. I taught my kids early on something that made me really happy and they're really good at it.

And they'll do it to this day where I'll be leaving a building and it's something that I sort of taught them to do when they were like five and seven, but I'd be leaving a restaurant and I'd have them go out and there's nobody out there and I'd have them say, no, no pictures, just everyone. And there's no one there. And it was this great way of, And there's kids saying that. Yeah.

And they're like, and my daughter, I remember my daughter being really good at, she was like, I think she was six or seven and she'd be like, he's a person. He said, you know, get back. Conan, that's great. Did they know how, why it was funny, how it was funny? No, no, no. They knew exactly why it was funny. And it was great because it was, I would die if I saw that.

No, no, it was so great because they're really funny kids and they got it. But also I was instructing them early that no one cares about your dad, which is a good, it's just like, I mean, that's a really good lesson. Like they know that they're a fan of their people, but, but letting them know early on and instructing them that I am someone who should be mocked. I do think people should, it's healthy for kids to find their father somewhat ridiculous and silly. To a point.

That's, I gotta maintain the upper hand. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. There's one thing I have to go back and say, have you ever, have you ever seen Will do his, I don't know how he'd describe it, but his super Uber professional boom mic operator? I don't think I have. This is Will Arnett being a holder of the long stick that has the microphone at the

end on movie sets. On sets, yeah. Yeah. And it's something he started riffing when we were doing Todd Margaret. And, you know, it's just one of those things, I'll just request it and it's just great. You have to, you'll have to ask him about it or have him do it. But he's got, you know, the guy has his, his boom mic is in, in his own really fancy carrying case and he puts it together and it's like, he's a pool hustler.

He's got like a beautiful case. Yeah. The whole shoot is really about him, you know, the whole, it's just, it's just really fun to watch. Just ask him to do it next time you see him. I'm going to see him in a couple of days because we're getting married. Oh, fantastic. Yeah.

You'll be reading about it. It's going to be a big story. Well, let me make sure I mention, again, your standup special, which is out now. We're taping this in advance. What? Yeah. How does that work? Trust me.

So then the- I could try to explain this to you. The title is really appropriate. But you'd never understand it. The title is really appropriate. But David Cross, I'm From the Future is a comedy special that is out right now. I should say that it's available on my website, doing a different thing this time. OfficialDavidCross.com, that's where you can go get it.

Cool. All right. Well, check it out. And like I say, it is very much about what we've all been going through the last two years and what people have been talking about, and there is a ton of really good work in there. Well, thanks, man. Yeah.

It's fun to do. Yeah. And it also, you know, I've been away from an audience now for six months, and being an ass in front of an audience is something that I miss. So I'm going to probably just become like a strip club MC or something. Oh, sure. There you go. MC, DJ, and be the stripper.

That's right. Yeah. Why stop there? Yeah. When do you see what I'm packing? Ooh. Talk about an audience clearing out. Hey, thank you so much for doing this.

Oh, my pleasure, man. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Absolutely. Very cool. For real. Okay. Well, this is something that happened to me yesterday, you know, I've been stuck

at home because I'm sick. I have COVID, but I'm okay. You have a very, you have the very mild. I have the mild. I'm vaccinated, so it didn't hit me that hard, but my husband and I. We have the Fisher Price COVID. We have the Fisher Price COVID. No, fortunately, let me just be responsible.

You've been fully vaccinated and then boosted. So you got COVID, but you've presented very mild, very mild symptoms. Very mild. And then you've still refused to really do any work. Oh. But anyway, go ahead. Sorry. We're on our boys.

We go for a walk every day. And yesterday we're walking. And before I say this, you know, Conan, you know about my temper that I've tried really hard to. You, you have a hair trigger temper. I've seen it in action. Yeah. When you get mad, you see red and I've asked you to try and get under control.

Cause sometimes you're with me and you start to go off on somebody. And I'm like, Sona, I don't want to read about this tomorrow in the paper. Yeah. So Conan O'Brien was seen with a Tasmanian devil. Yeah. So, um, so what happened? I'm curious. Okay.

So I had, it's been a long time since my temper has come out, but yesterday some bitch is jogging with her dog on one of those waist leashes. So she's jogging and both her hands are free and I'm walking my dog and we're with the boys and, and Taks walking the boys and she's jogging in the middle of the street on this cul-de-sac. So Oki goes towards her dog. Her dog comes towards my dog and then she like swivels cause she's jogging and she goes, lady, what's your dog?

And I go, are you fucking serious? And I go, they're dogs. And I tried to, I actually like held the Oki back and then she just kept jogging. I was like, that's right. Keep jogging bitch. And I turned towards Taks and I was like, what just happened to me? I was going to stab this woman in the face. I have been there for these instances with you when you completely lose it.

And let me explain to people, Sona is a very polite kind person most of the time, but when you lose it, it's immediate. Yeah. You've got your babies with you. Yes. You've got, you've got these six month old twins with you and you want to throw down, I mean, what you're using is the language of a penitentiary. You want to pull out a shiv that you've fashioned in shop and that you've hidden in dark recesses

of your body and you want to pull that out and stab someone to death in that moment. I do. And, you know, luckily the boys were sleeping and they're six months old. So they won't remember this, but I did. I yelled to this woman, keep running bitch. Like, but also. What if that's their first words? What if you're like, say mama, say data and your, and your parents are there and everyone's

gathered around and they're like, keep running bitch. And then Charlie says that. And then he goes, keep running bitch. Then they teach each other how to correct it. And then it's just like, keep running bitch. They, then they harmonize. Keep running bitch. Every time you put them down for a nap and then leave the room, you just hear keep running

bitch. Yeah. Okay. There you go guys. Nighty night. Have a good sleep. Mama loves you. Daddy loves you.

Everybody loves you. And I'll just close the door and yeah, keep running bitch. I don't think you got the stones to be our mom. It's called a fucking dog mom. I don't need your boobs. We're getting our milk online from each other. What? We just ordered some simulac, dehydrated milk off Amazon.

So keep walking bitch. And watch your goddamn dog. We took a walk the other night and it was maybe four o'clock and it was just barely starting to dim and this old woman jogged past us doing that kind of walking jog, you know, and she just muttered to herself, not even to us, too dark to walk a baby. What do you mean? I've never heard of it's too dark to walk a baby. What does that even mean?

I don't know. I just wanted to say, Sona, I understand it. The problem was I did that thing and maybe Conan, you could relate with this where also we were three houses from our house and we got in the house and I went, wait, why didn't I yell at that lady? Mind your own business. Instead, I just went, yeah, you know, yeah. Well, that's, that's you.

I, when things like that would happen and my kids were really young, I would, I remembered once throwing my daughter at the person. She was about four months old, but she had some, she had strong bones. Too dark to throw a baby. Yeah. I said, it's too dark to walk a baby, but not too dark to throw a baby. Heave ho. Well, that was.

That's this grandma. Yeah. That's good though. It's good to have her straight, Matt. I would have exploded and then I would have gone home and I would have been like, why did I do that? But I regretted the other side. I'm kind of obsessed with that too dark to walk a baby.

Yeah. What I've never, I don't understand. I don't understand. I think everyone's losing their mind. And I will say, I absolutely love our neighbors, but they saw us walking the baby at the same time too. And for Christmas, they got us two of those like Caltrans reflector vests and. It's not that dark.

But that was. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. I'm on, I'm on their side now. You know the story that you, and you're walking a newborn at night that you're both wearing reflector vests and you have those lights. Oh no, we were in ninja suits. You were both, you were both dressed as people that put the scenery out in between.

Yes. Black turtle next. Yeah. You were wearing black turtle next and. And your daughter has all black on too. She's in complete ghillie suit, sniper camouflage. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. That's terrific. And also I've never been in a fight before. I mean, I don't know why I even said that to her. Like keep running. I mean. Maybe it was your maternal instincts kicking in and you felt like a threat to your family. No, she had this before.

Yeah. We were in many years ago. Sona and I were with a friend of hers and we were in a very nice restaurant on the upper west side of Manhattan. Oh, I know that. Yeah. And I guess, you know that place. There's only one left.

Sona was being a little loud and there was a guy way over at the other end of the table and it was at the restaurant, just on the other side. And he just kind of made a shh. No. Hold it. He went shh and you went, oh, really? Really? And you stood up and you started to unload on this guy while I'm there in front of me

and your friend was trying to restrain you. Remember? What was she saying? You almost climbed across the table and tore this guy's face off. Wow. And you know who the guy was? Who? Stephen Hawking.

It was one of the great physicists of all time, Stephen Hawking. And he went shh, please, please. It's upsetting. And she was like, oh, really? I've got ideas too about black holes. I'm going to carve one in your fucking forehead. I wasn't even shushing you. That was the sound of my machine.

Sorry. I wasn't shushing you. That was my machine that helps keep me alive so I can think of new ways to help humanity in my shortened lifespan. Oh, yeah, really? Remember that? And then you tried to wheel him out the door and security came? Yeah.

Do you remember any of this? Yeah. You attacked him. You started hitting him with a baguette. You're right. I'm sorry. And then he ended up apologizing to you. I'm sorry if I upset you.

Remember? Yeah. And then he said, wait a minute. That may be my best idea yet, and you went shut it. Yeah. And then you screamed at him for 10 minutes, and then he went, I forgot my idea. He was being a dick. Well, there you have it.

The story of the time. It's Sona on the Upper West Side attacks Stephen Hawke. Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sona Mufsesian, and Matt Gorely. Produced by me, Matt Gorely. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solotarov, and Jeff Ross at Team Cocoa, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Year Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes.

Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Will Beckton. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Cocoa Hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Cocoa Production in association with Year Wolf.