Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara

Episode Date: January 20, 2020

Actors, writers and comedians Eugene Levy and Catherine O’Hara feel absolutely delighted, flattered, and honored to be considered Conan O’Brien’s friends. Eugene and Catherine sit down with Conan to talk about taking chances in the pre-internet era with SCTV, transforming into the characters they play on Schitt’s Creek, the formula that makes a successful comedy show stick, and legendary tales from the Second City stage. Later, Conan takes it up with the Cheesecake Factory menu. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone].

My name is Eugene Levy, and I feel absolutely delighted about being Conan O'Brien's friend. I too. Well, my name's not Eugene, but my name is Catherine O'Hara, and I too feel flattered and honored that you would consider me your friend. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walk in lose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are gonna be friends. I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hello, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

I'm trying to be more professional. Hello, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Why? This doesn't work, does it? Sorry. It's just not good, right? It just doesn't sound right. Well, hey there, Conan O'Brien here.

Yeah, that's good. Okay, I'll try it that way. Just Conan O'Brien here, and rephrase it if you want to come at a different angle, you can't. Me Conan, it's a friend I need. Me Conan, friend I want. Friend for me Conan. Conan, frenzy.

That's how we'll do it from now on. Just, I have to say, I'm having a blast doing this podcast. What a silly thing. After over 110 years in broadcast television, suddenly I'm talking into a microphone in a very small room and having a blast, and I'm helped as always by my trusty assistant, Sona Moisesian. Hey, Sona. Hello.

Nice to see you. Nice to see you too. This is the most professional UNIR all day. I know. It is. We were probably throwing fruit at each other an hour ago. I think we were. And then I'm here with Matt Gorley.

Matt, how are you? Hi guys. Good. Everything good? Yeah. Very good. How about you? I'm very well.

Thank you. This is nice. This is nice. We're all being very professional and kind to each other. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. No, no, no. I don't think that's the right way to look at this. Maybe we grew out of that.

Maybe we did. Maybe 2020 is the year when we all respect each other and act like professionals. I like this. This is cool. So Sona, I do want to announce, I'm very excited that after a long series of episodes, after a long search, it looks like you're getting home. It is. We should be closing tomorrow.

That's gross. We can't say exactly where it is, obviously. That would be wrong. 3512. No. No, no, no. La Huga Street. No, don't get.

La Huga. La Huga Street in Los Caos, Notches. Oh my God. There's a whole parts of LA that I don't know. You've never been. And so I always just, they all sound like, you know, like, yeah, over there by Eagle Stone. Except the road from Noces, Noches, Calabros. You and your two friends used to do something cool, which I think used to help you explore

the city, which is you would go to restaurants that were established before you were born. Quick shout out to my posse. I'm sorry. I know who your posse is. Greg Daniels and Rodman Flender. These have been my friends for like. Your bros. My bros for 35 years, I think.

And we have this rule in LA tradition, which we did for a long time, which is we would meet up and go to a restaurant. The rules were none of us could have been there before. And the restaurant had to have been in operation before we were born. Wow. So we'd go to these places from the 50s and the 40s and the 30s and the 20s and we would go downtown. And it was just fascinating places, you know, that like cops would hang out in in the 40s.

We'd be like, oh, yeah, that's where you get a cup of mud, a cup of Joe and a side of beef. Where people were like murdered in. Yeah. Right. There were a lot of murders while we were there. We would go to these places. You murdered. And we would do the murdering.

But we would go to all these places. And it was really a fun tradition. And then for some reason, I can't remember it just petered out. I think we were attacked at one point. Are you talking like Musso and Frank in that kind of place? Yeah. But we would get even more eclectic than that. Oh.

It would be like these places where, you know, it's an old elevator car that is on its side. And what do you mean it's an elevator car? There was an elevator that fell out of a building and it landed on a lot. And then they make, they serve clam soup. Clam soup? What's, you mean chowder? No, clam soup in an elevator. Wait, so why would you get your go there?

And the whole idea is they're rude to you. And the soup isn't good and you get sick. But everyone does it and there's sawdust on the floor. So we literally go to places like that. Literally. Yeah. We would go to places like that. And sometimes it was a terrible idea and sometimes the place was kind of cool.

And they're all from that era when menus were about eight feet by four feet. And made this heavy, heavy plasticized paper. And the waiters and waitresses are all very old, aren't they? They're very old. Yes. Yes. They're very hardy. And they're like, what do you want?

I got to go and vote for Coolidge. And they're like, what? No. Anyway, I'll have the, you'll have the clam soup. Isn't it chowder? It's not chowder. There's no milk in there. Anyway, I'll take you guys there sometime.

I think you'd like it. I should probably get down to business, right? That's who we're here for. Yeah. Well, my guest today, very excited. There are various actors whose working relationship goes back 40 years. They got their start on SCTV, one of the greatest shows of all time. They went on to star in such films as Waiting for Guffman for your consideration and a mighty wind.

Now you can see them on the hit pop TV series. Everyone loves the show. Schitt's Creek, which is currently airing its sixth and final season. I am so excited they're here with us today. They are Heroes of Mine. Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara, welcome. First of all, I'd like to point out that I've had you both to my home. Yes.

Very recently. Yes. Well, I'd say you're my friend, but I didn't know you thought I was your friend. I didn't say I was yet. Oh, sorry. No, that's the thing. That's why I almost said I feel somewhat uncomfortable. Catherine, it's a great honor that needs to be earned to be my friend.

I'm going to keep working on it. I'm up to the challenge. I'm going to keep... I can do that in four days, Conan. You think in four days you could win my friendship? I think in four days... Okay, three and a half days. Three and a half days.

I could become your friend in three and a half days, Conan. No, people have tried. It sounds like one of those hokey movies where they say you can inherit the fortune, but you have to spend a night in the... There's always a thing, a stupid reason. That's a me too thing, actually. Oh, really? Okay, all right, forget that. You're right.

You can inherit a fortune, but first you have to spend the night. Tickling my... No, it was a haunted mansion was where I was going. I didn't... But you took it into me too, who of it... I'm sorry, I watched... Well, getting back to the friend thing here... Yes, okay.

This is a very difficult thing to start with, because, you know, in all honesty, yes, you're kind of an under... I mean, what is your circle of friends? It's not why. It's not why. Yes, how would we be joining? So then I don't feel that I would necessarily... And I know I've been to your home, a beautiful home.

Thank you. But I wouldn't say saying that you are Conan O'Brien's friend takes a lot of balls when you're not really in that inner circle of friends. There's no... It would be. I'd be more comfortable saying it, and I feel good about being Conan O'Brien's acquaintance. Okay, well, that's just horrible. Because I don't feel close...

What do you think? I would love... I was in your home, but I'm not sure you knew I was there at the time. I knew you were there. Oh, okay. I found you eventually. Yeah. She hid in my wife's closet.

Well, you kept ignoring her, and I said, Well, what is this? I thought they were friends. We had... I'll just clarify this. A Christmas party, a lot of people there. Of course, I'm the consummate host, so I'm running from person to person. Yes.

I didn't get to talk to just about anybody. But I think, actually, almost every time I've seen you guys, Martin Short's there. Martin Short, and it's almost like... It's almost this rule that if you were on SCTV, and you're one of the gods of Canadian comedy, you must all travel together. It's the exact opposite of how, you know, the president's not supposed to travel with the vice president

and the secretary of state, because if something God forbid happened, then the chain of command would be wiped out. I mean, half of Canadian comedy would be devastated if the three of you were in an elevator that went down at the same time. Do you understand? Well, that's the hope that if something happened, that the three of us at least being surrounded by others.

Yes. You know, if you're alone, maybe it'll just, you know, there's bigger news that day. But if it's three of us, we have a chance of being, you know, commemorated in some way. And Marty's big fear would just be the headline would read, Pointy-Hitted Nerd Goes and Dies in Elevator. Or Eugene Levy, Martin Short and Friend. Yes.

I don't think so. Martin Short and Nerdy Newsman. Die in terrible. I wasn't even there, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Boy, I said friend, at least. And Clest. You just, just come right out.

In that scenario, Catherine, in that scenario, Catherine, you got out alive. You survived. Oh, thank God. And all they found, they found, they found your eyebrows, Eugene. All that was found at the scene. Well, and a bulldozer, actually, you know, kind of picking them up. So I, I was, I first met you guys. It was a huge thrill for me.

It was a long time ago in the 90s at the Aspen Comedy Festival. Oh, yes. I was my dream come true because no show meant more to me when I was a youngster who was fascinated with comedy. SNL, SNL Live was all the rage. And then this show came on, SCTV. There wasn't even broadcast in, we're, we're in this, I think I discovered the show in the summer. And technically it was not broadcast in Rhode Island. We stayed at our grandfather's house.

But there was a TV station, a TV tower in Buffalo that was picking it up off of Toronto. And we could, my brother positioned the antenna and found this show, this magical show. And he woke me up and he said, you have to see this. And so we, that's what got me indoctrinated into it. And I really thought they're making this show for me. They're like, and then I remember then I got to go to Aspen. And this was my out of body experience. They asked me, would you host the SCTV reunion?

I said, what are you talking about? The fact that I get to be in the same room with these people is an absolute mind blowing experience. I had the experience and you guys were lovely. You were just absolutely lovely. You were very nice to me. You made us feel so welcome. And you told a story like that and made us feel like we loved it. Same story. I have one story, Kathy.

Well, is it true, right? Yeah, it's a true story. No, you did. You made us feel so welcome and proud of our work. And now you remind me. You made me feel proud and honored that you have the same memory of us the way as I had of discovering for myself, thinking I was the only memory in the lives of my sisters, brothers of Monty Python. Yes.

When I was in high school watching Monty Python. And to think that anyone felt that way. Thank you. Well, no, that's what happens is in comedy. I do think that there's this magical thing that happens and not just comedy, music, obviously, and throughout different art forms. But people get together and they make something. And the best is when they almost think nobody's watching.

Yeah. And I think you guys had this attitude, which is, well, we're not starting out live. That's getting all the attention right now. We're here. We're in Toronto. We didn't even know anybody was watching the show. I mean, we would go in, tape the show. And then, you know, in our very first season, it was just local.

It was only in Toronto. And anywhere else. It was just like on global, maybe, television. We didn't even assume they'd be watching. Right. And we would go in and, you know, tape the show and then go home and have dinner. I mean, it was like it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like SNL where those guys went in and all of a sudden they've got New York City at their feet.

It was just the job. You'd go in and do it and then go home and do whatever you want. And then this thing around about the second season, the show did get syndicated to 40 markets in the States. And I guess you were picking it up on maybe the Buffalo thing. Yeah. We were getting in this weird convoluted way. And my brother, Neo, is a savant at knowing, I mean, to this day, he still uses TV antennas.

No one uses them anymore. He still uses TV antennas to pick up stray signals. And he's, you know, he's watching shows, you know, that are from Ghana or something. They're not on his head. No, no, no. Sometimes he then takes the antenna out for dinner. But it's, but you two guys, it's how I got to know you two guys, John Candy, first time I saw him and Joe Flaherty and Dave Thomas, Dave Thomas, of course, and Andrea Martin.

Yes. Well, you do it. I'm sorry. I didn't want you to feel you had to come up with the names. Yeah. Continue. Very nice. You're doing it quicker.

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm terrible. So cruel, Eugene. So cruel. I'd expect that from Martin Short, but not you. Well, I just came off co-hosting Ellen, so I'm. Oh, wow.

You just dropped a name. Can I pick that up for you? Ah. I was talking about the Ellen Pompeo show. This very little known show. No one else won. Yeah, it was Canadian. The Ellen McDougall show.

You were trying to say something. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, no, I'm often trying to say something. It never happens. But what's interesting is that the show was launched to all of you guys, and then I find out much later on, and Martin Short also on the show, and Rick Moranis, and I find out much later on that you guys all kind of knew each other before, because you'd had this

other life beforehand where you're in this, you're in Godspell? Well, that's where we, yeah. A lot of you met in Godspell. Yes. We met, Marty and I, of course, grew up in the same town. We went to school together. In fact, Marty knew my sister before we ever met. In fact, I think they dated.

It sounded like he knew your sister before you knew your sister. That's what it just sounded like. No. How large a family was this? Marty introduced me and my sister. You know Marty. So we went to school together. We became really good friends in university, at McMaster University, back in our hometown

of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. We auditioned. I went out. Marty was still going to school finishing his final exams at McMaster. I had already dropped out, and I went to audition for Godspell, and I remember calling Marty saying, boy, you've got to come out and audition for this. Because it's a musical, you know, he says, well, I'm writing my finals. I said, I think you should come out and just do it.

So he did. We get into the show, and that's where we meet Victor Garber, and that's where we meet Gilda Radner. I already knew Andrea Martin. I had worked with Andrea. I introduced Andrea to Marty at the Godspell auditions, and so we got into Godspell. Now, Gilda was going out with Catherine's brother, Marcus, at that time. He's the most incestuous group, this Canadian mafia.

That's how I first... Marty stole her away from Marcus. Oh, really? Yes, the dirty thing. What a dog. I know. Yeah. Well, that's where I first met Catherine, as Marcus's sister, who would come to Godspell,

and then we'd, you know, see each other kind of at a party after the show. Only after that, Catherine got into the second city in Toronto. I got a call back for Godspell, but I didn't get in. Oh. That's okay. I don't think I knew that. It's okay. You didn't quite have it, Catherine.

I did. I did have it. That's been proven over time. And it was in high school. I was in high school at the time. You were too young. Robin Duke and I got tickets, though, for Godspell, from Gilda Radner, and we got to hang out with the cast.

I love that that's probably on your resume somewhere. I got tickets to Godspell. But you know what's really... I'm still bragging about it. It's really amazing. That's really sad. So what's amazing to me is that this, I think, it's very akin to what happened in England in the late 60s with the pythons, where you get this group of like-minded people bumping

into each other in college, and they all are in sketches together, and they all kind of know each other. And later on, you hear, because I talked to Eric Eidel recently on this program, and he was like, oh yeah, no, they all knew each other. They all knew each other, and you hear it later on, and it sounds absurd. What do you mean you bumped into John Cleese, and then you guys both then bumped into Michael Palin. What do you mean you bumped into each other?

It sounds stupid later on. Well, we all work together in the Second City Theater at different times, working in the same company. So that's where these friendships started, and then we kind of did seven years of SETV, and then we, you know, Catherine and I, you know, did a lot of projects after that. You kept hiring me, thank you. Well, and there's a good reason for that, and you know, but I won't go into over-complementing you here, because you really, really hate that, so I'm not going to do it.

Nodging that you've given me a lot of jobs, thank you. But it's funny getting back to the Python thing, because I remember when Python came on in, I believe it was 1972, we got it in, 71. It started in England in, it's 69, is when it starts in England, but it doesn't get here for a while, and then you guys probably got it, because you're a Commonwealth. Before you got it, right? So we got it in 71, and that was the Thursday nights at 10.30, that you had to be in front of the TV, and what is this bizarre show?

What are these bizarre references? What are these strange names? And when SETV came on the air, I'm not necessarily sure that it was a kind of a bizarre Canadian thing that made things different, or whether it was just a second city sensibility in the comedy, but I think the Toronto second city was different than the Chicago second city. Right. Yeah. And what is interesting to me is that you look at these formats, like one of the things

I think the nuclear bomb blast, the revelation of Monty Python was things should go on as long as they're funny. And the minute they're not funny anymore, they should switch to something else. They said now for something completely different. Right. Or the sketches are working. This isn't working? Yes.

Now, what you guys did was you said we're a TV station, so you'd have interactions, but the minute you had explored what's funny about this, you could cut to a commercial, and the commercials were commercial parodies. So the structure of it meant things can be, they can exist for as long as they're funny, and the minute they're not funny anymore, or we don't enjoy playing with this toy anymore, we're done. Right. And I think that's the thing that you guys hit on.

I think it's one of the things that because they're not live, obviously tons of brilliant moments, but if something's not working, it still has to go on for nine minutes sometimes. And trust me, I wrote some of that shit, and I knew sometimes like, oh my God, this is too long, it doesn't have a good ending. Yeah, it's live. I mean, I always felt bad. I always felt bad when people compared the two shows. While this show is funnier than SNL, I mean, this is back in the, what, early 80s when

we... On one night? Wow. Huh? No, but I mean, there were always comparisons that I'd say, but this is a live show. Our show is a post-produced show. It's so much harder now to experiment and try different things and take chances and learn on the job without having a world of opinion.

Yes. Yes. Whereas we were allowed before the internet to try things and make mistakes and really just take chances and learn how to do what you were doing. I wanted to start off talking about SCTV because it meant so much to me. One of the things that all of you, not just you two, but everyone in that initial group... But mostly us. But mostly...

I mean, you guys more than all the rest, including Marty, who has insulted me so many times. Yes. Marty loves to say to me, Conan, whatever you're doing to your face, I say do 20% more and then stop. It's such a great Canadian insult, like it's under the guise of Conan... It's constructive. Yes.

Yes. It's cheerful and encouraging and awful at the same time. But one of the things that I think is really nice is that you've got these fans who don't need to know anything about SCTV, but they can know Guffman, or they can just know Schitt's Creek and it's their favorite thing. What's happened with Schitt's Creek is absolutely lovely because it's always been a really funny show and then it's just grown and flourished. And so to the point that my friend Sony here, my assistant, is nervous today to be in the

room with you and was acting... She's over that by now. Yeah. And I said, well, Sony, you're around me all the time. No, I'm not. An incredible start. It's the same thing. No, not at all.

Really. No. And I cannot tell you how many times I have walked out. This is... Sounds like a joke, but I'm not joking. I've gone to Sony at her desk to ask her to do something important for me and she's got her headphones on and she's watching. Is this true?

I am. Yeah. I've rewatched it several times. Often watching. I just really love it. Schitt's Creek multiple times and pretty much telling me to wait until you're done with the episode. I'll be with you in a minute.

To get my heart medication. My priorities are in order. My God. Yeah. She's Creek first, Conan first. Conan first. But that's... But you know, this is the thing that people dream of, which is you've got these bodies

of work, both of you, together, separately. You've got these bodies of work, things that you've done that have been like, oh, that's fantastic. Oh, that's great. I love you in this. I love you in that. But they are completely separate. People don't need to even...

Now, people like me, I know, SCTV, but it's not necessary. I hope everyone goes out and sees that. Isn't that nice? No, there's a big chunk... It's nice to be alive. It's still working. Yeah. A big chunk of art.

Schitt's Creek audience. Catherine just said, it's nice to be alive. It's still working. Well, okay. So why should I talk anymore? I'm sorry. It's nice to be alive. It's still working.

Yes, so you remember when you named things that you did years ago, and then you mentioned that we're still working, and that somebody like Soda would care and watch. I'm sorry it makes me feel grateful to be alive. Go on, Eugene. Yeah, we're all grateful. Well, not everyone. Some people are very depressed. We're all alike in that respect.

Right. I think there's probably a lot of people out there, like, not Sona, who's a big fan. Catherine, who knows your other work, but they just knowing you from Schitt's Creek, they don't know how you really speak. Because it's such a great, you found, I want to talk about your character because Moira is just so... I'm trying to figure out how you channeled that accent because it's so beautifully bizarre, but she's not someone who's from England. She sounds like someone who's just completely made herself up.

Is that true? Yeah, even when I read her here, oh, you're doing Mid-Atlantic, it's not Mid-Atlantic, or you're doing 19th. It's not. I don't even know what I'm doing, but as soon as anyone tries to name it, I think, no, that's not it, because I've never really... I'd never had an actual idea of what it was going to sound like, and I had a vague idea, and I've met lots of people who have reinvented themselves.

I think of Madonna. I'm not doing Madonna, but sometimes I hear a bit of Madonna in Moira, but remember how for a while she was English? Oh, no. For a while, she turned into Dick Van Dyke from Mary Poppins. She was like, Alev, go do it. Oh, go do some fishing ships. Oh, good.

And you were like, what happened? I love her nerve, though. I love people that will just... Yeah, this is who I am now. That's a nice way. That's a very nice way to say it. No, but people are going on about it, like, what the fuck? When did she become British? And then I can't complain about it anymore, so I'll just let her be, as the world gave

up and she continued. And so there are people that... She changed now. She is a... Yeah, she's a World War I Prussian officer. No, seriously. I've seen her in concerts. She wears a spiky helmet and she comes out and she says, yeah, they must have all happened. It's true. And no one's going to question her.

No one questions her now. There's a great... Kathleen Turner was on The Tonight Show or something years ago. She came out and suddenly she was Brazilian or something, and there was no explanation. Right. You've got to find it. It's on... Of course, it's on the internet. But the thing I also unintentionally did, as well, because I had no actual plan, is that if you really listen, it's completely inconsistent.

Yeah, it changes basically. And I think at the beginning I thought, well, I think I thought that Moira would kind of put that on with townsfolk and with my family, I'd be a little more natural. And that kind of happened because when I tried to actually relate to people, which I needed to do in scenes, especially in family scenes, I would find it seemed like I'd had a stroke or something. And I couldn't actually... I was trying to keep up the acts, whatever the acts it was. And I would lose it.

Eugene, every day of all six seasons, almost every day, would have to remind me in the middle of the day, say, Moira, what's your favorite movie? The Aviator. The Aviator. The Aviator. The Aviator. The Aviator. The Aviator.

Thank you, Eugene. And that gets you back in. That gets you back in. That was a... That gets you back in. The Aviator. I'd go on this and just say, Catherine, favorite movie. Thank you, Aviator.

Now, you know, when we started, we did the... But this was the, again, fantastic touch that Catherine came up with when we started the show, because we did a little presentation pilot with a lot of different cast members when we shot it here, and there was no dialect or whatever. It was a character you really didn't really care that much about, but you did it as a favor, and then when we started the actual series, she came in with these great ideas. What if there was a dialect? What if Moira kind of talked like this, says, I said, gold, beautiful, that's great.

It's great. And what if she wore... Wigs. The wigs. Wigs for the different moods that she was in. I was really... Okay, yes. I told Eugene I found... I have all the old emails that Eugene and I exchanged before

we got into shooting the series, and he's... We're turning into our characters, because I would say, Eugene, you have to make me feel... Okay, my whole life has upended. I'm in a motel, and Eugene said, it's okay, we're going to work it out. It's all going to be good. You'll be taken care of. You'll be allowed to feel. He's turning it to Johnny, and I'm turning it to Moira. Eugene, you have to let... But also about the wigs in one of the emails, Eugene, what

if I had a friend that kept going, disappearing at dinner and coming back with wigs, and ta-da, and what if I wear a lot of email back... Talk to the hair department. Could you pick maybe two wigs? One would be for dressing up, one would be for when you're in a bad mood, and perhaps a turban. It's like, no, Eugene, you don't understand... I didn't even know what I had in mind, but it was like, no, don't say now how many I have to wear. I want to get there and find out.

So you were worried about cost, Eugene. Yes, he's a producer. I'm a producer. The time. I'm a producer. Well... But I love the way you actually did an impersonation of my email, where you start out with a throat clearing.

Well, I... I have an emoji for that, don't you? An emoji of a medical camera, whatever they're called, of your throat. One of the things... And as you watch Shitt's Creek over the seasons, you can see your... And I think the writer is having a lot of fun with Moira. Your speeches get longer and more... And they're sort of more grand, about nothing, about... Oh, yeah.

Really like a hot plate, you know? Well, I think Daniel would back me up on this, that they would write great speeches and great... And I would get hold of them and go through my books, Foil's Filavri, and Foil's Further Filavri, and Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary, amazing books full of arcane, archaic words. Oh, this is great. And I would floralize... Moira, floralize, what... Yeah, it was so much fun. Yeah. Yeah.

And, but that also got the writers... Oh, yeah, then they would try to copy each other. So then the speeches would get written more flowery, and then even more flowery, you would take it and go through it and do your little revision. I was greedy. I would get Daniel a copy of Foil's Filavri until the fifth season. Daniel meaning my son Daniel, who is the showrunner. And also on the show, playing your son. Playing my son.

Great stretch. Yes. Is that... What's that like working with your son? Is he ever... Pain in the ass. I don't want to work with anyone I'm related to. No one I'm related to will work with me. Yeah, big pain in the ass. I'm a dad, and when I say something, I want somebody to say, okay, dad, we'll do it your

way. That doesn't happen. No, they are freaky gentlemen, the two of them. They are. No, it's been unreal, to be honest, and the critical... I mean, he's done an amazingly brilliant job on the show in so many ways, but my... The big turning point for me was the learning when to just step back, and which happened maybe early in the first season of just realizing, wait a minute, he's got it all under control here.

Why do I feel I have to be mentoring something that he's already got, he's way past where I am. Right. So, all right, go ahead. It's yours. It's good. Do it. It's not just a dad talking, Daniel's freaky born to do this, really so confident and such

a great writer, and open to ideas, not threatened by ideas at all, just he's so confident in what he knows to be, to work, what's going to work, and really funny in character. It was wild, how good it is. Also doing walking that really fine edge of, very funny, but when the show first started, I thought it would be easy to dismiss these people as caricatures, but you believe in their friendships. You actually believe that they care about each other, which years ago when I was working on The Simpsons, I used to get lectured, I just wanted to write crazy, funny things

happening, and I would get lectured, you've got to remember, it's a family, and they love each other, and I would think, what is this shit, because I had like a giant pompadour and long sideburns, and I was the hot comedy writer, 28, Conan O'Brien, and I acted like my name was like Blaze Willington, you know, I've come to town to write hardcore comedy, and finally bumped The Simpsons up a notch, and I don't give a shit about who loves who and who cares about who, and then of course, I'm dealing with these incredibly talented showrunners who are teaching me, know that has to be the underpinning to the whole thing, or you've got nothing.

You know, that love comes from Daniel, and I bet I'd say that comes from his father too, his family, his upbringing. Well, it was, yeah, and it really happened from season to season, I mean, the first season was the, you know, the fish out of water scenario on Schitt's Creek, and you had to kind of lay that out, how uncomfortable they are in their new surroundings, and meeting all these townspeople, and everything kind of, that's how you lay it out, and then once that was all laid out in the first season, you could then just relax and get into relationships, you can let things play out, and just have two people in a scene for, you know, five

minutes, and it's about how people are getting to know each other. So I think one of the interesting things is that there are some people that might think, oh, these people work so well with each other, they've known each other so long, it's improvised, and no, it's not, it is not improvised. And I know that you're very emphatic about saying, no, we like to get it just right, it doesn't mean you can't use improv to try and find things. Right, absolutely. But I do see people, sometimes I'll watch a movie, a comedy, or a TV show where I can

tell they're improvising and everyone's cracking up on the set. Right, yeah, it's a little litreque. Yeah, and I used to work. Too loose. I used to, oh, okay. Who's got a pair? Now, for a lot of our young listeners, that was a too loose litreque reference. Could you hand me that pen?

I want to get that done. I think we're saying he's been in business for a while. Is it okay if I just talk to Catherine? Is there a way we could put like a cardboard box over Eugene as a punishment time? A punishment time? I apologize for that. You have to earn your way out of a little too loose litreque job. No, I apologize.

Honestly, I apologize for that. That was a horrible thing. And I just halted an entire flow of whatever it was that was... It was terrible. They had to be listening. Yeah, they had to be listening. They had to be listening about listening and then going for the too loose litreque job. That's it.

When can I get it in now? That's the... I had a nickel in the middle of every improv. Eugene would come out with the too loose job. Did anyone call for too loose litreque? No, no one called for too loose litreque. Now, I said, oh, wait, I said it wrong. I'm going to go back and come on stage again.

I have a... This was the opportunity right here. Because I don't get to use that that often. No, no, I can see. It's one of those lines when somebody's like too loose, like somebody's saying, oh, are you comfortable? I say, well, I make a living. So when somebody says too loose work already, this is like, oh, the...

You're not a good man. No, no. This is like, no, I thought he was... Try to read... I thought he was one of those guys. It was just... But he's not. I just...

I really want to focus on Catherine as much as I can. He's not. He's not really as funny as I thought he was. You know, and also, people are seeing you without the eyebrows. You use them so beautifully. They're such a gift. They... I think they...

They think they are as a seven-inch rise and fall with your eyebrows, like the cookie monster. Wouldn't it be sad if he got Botoxed? Oh, my God. Oh, if they didn't move, they were just kind of up on the side. Oh. You know what she did is she was like, well, this is... If you got an incredible amount of surgery and they pulled your head back, too, so that

they were right up at your hairline, that would be fantastic. Oh, he's a place-abalding hairline with the house. I'm dreading turning 93. Don't you worry. I don't know what this... You've got nine years. I don't know what this face is going to look like in nine years. Don't worry about it.

So, improvisation. Oh, please. Why are you... You're like a dean trying to get control of the rowdy frat house. That's where I cut you off. Now, everybody... You know, it's so funny. I feel that you're a Jack Benny, a huge Jack Benny fan, because you've got some...

And if you don't know Jack Benny, goddamn, he was the funniest person, one of the three funniest people of the 20th century. But you've got a little bit of that. Well, now, let's all just calm down. I loved Jack Benny, Jack Benny. I watched his show Gleason, Benny, and Sid Caesar back in the 50s, but Benny was just... Here is the beautiful thing about Jack Benny, who was a comedian, had his own show, started out in vaudeville, then went into radio, and then television.

He surrounded himself with very funny people, which turned out to be a formula for a lot of successful shows. The person in the center is kind of the straight guy, and you surround yourself with a lot of funny people, and Jack Benny would just get his laughs off something funny somebody else said, and then he would react for 20 seconds off the line that somebody else said, and then another 20 seconds staring into camera. Right. But it's fun.

I mean, you are playing on Schitt's Creek, you're this consummate straight man, the world around you doesn't make sense, and you're trying the best you can. But a lot of it is your reactions that are really fun to watch. I mean, I think this is the most straight man role you've probably played in your career. Yeah, it is. I mean, it is. And it's hilarious. Absolutely.

Intentionally. Intentionally, yes. I mean, I thought Dumb and Dumber was a comedy, but later when I saw it, I was actually pretty straight. Not true. But you know, just mustache, glasses, and playing with Sherry O'Terry. Yes. But a classic straight man is hilarious.

Yes. Yes. So I love that, though. I love it. I was excited about doing that. I, because I've never done it, I was always afraid to play myself, like on SCTV, I remember we did a piece on SCTV called Days of the Week, which I wrote, and it was a soap opera. And I played a character called Dr. Sabian, and I, it was just me.

It was basically, I didn't know makeup, like, I mean, no wigs, and must have said it was just me playing opposite a second fiddle to John Candy's Dr. Wainwright character. And I got so insecure that it was just me playing opposite this great character that I eventually wrote myself out of the soap opera because I just couldn't do it anymore because I didn't want to be me. So this was a big step for me, playing straight and, you know, getting the exposition out, keeping everything on track. That I've all been doing it for six years, I just absolutely loved it and kind of relaxed

into it in a way. Now, Katherine, you've, one thing that fascinates me is that you've said that when in doubt, everyone has like their, whatever their fallbacks, but you've said when in doubt, play insane. And I love that because I feel like you, you, I hear that quote and I think, I believe that to be true, you, yeah, you're enormously talented at channeling this insanity. Where does that come, I mean, I know that we have some similarities because we both come from huge Irish Catholic families. How many kids in your family?

I'm one of six. You're one of seven. Yeah, I'm one of seven. Okay. I'm the six of seven. Oh, you're the six of seven? I was, I was third of six. Oh, you're in the middle.

I was in the middle striving for, I will be heard. I'll show you all. I guess I was too, wanting attention. Is everyone, is everyone funny growing up? Yes. Everyone in my family. Yes. My mom would, my dad would tell jokes from the office, you know, just, you know, set

up punchline jokes. Right. Great ones. And my mom would tell stories. This is all at the dinner table. There was a lot of, you know, things that happened to her that day, people she'd met and she'd imitate them all. So hers was more character work and he was doing stand-up, my dad was doing, yeah.

But everybody in my family's funny, yeah. And so you knew, you always knew that, like, did you think this could be a career when you're a kid? Did you think this is something that could, that could, I, I made my mom and dad laugh. This was my take on growing up Irish Catholic is there were so many ways that you weren't allowed to be free. But if you're making people laugh, you get this license to really push it and go over the line.

And in a way, I found that to be intoxicating. Like if I'm on a roll at the dinner table or at the Sunday, we always had like a, we would gather on the kitchen table at 1230 on a Sunday and eat our Sunday meal at 1230 in the afternoon of one. And I would try and get going and see if I could get everybody laughing really hard. And I know that, I think Bill Murray has said, yeah, that's the real training ground. It is. Yeah.

And I don't know if, I'm sure that's not just Irish Catholic. I'm sure it's true in Jewish culture. I'm sure there are many cultures where they say like, yeah, this is where it gets started. You try and make people laugh around the table. It's definitely where it's encouraged. Yeah. Being funny was definitely encouraged in my home. Was it in yours where your parents funny?

Yeah. Yeah. Parents are funny and they would really laugh. And it was just sort of like whatever tensions there from being Irish Catholic and they're being way too many kids in a small space. If you're not laughing. Yeah. Who clearly, and we were all born about four months apart.

It's Irish. It was really, medical science is still studying both my parents because yeah, yeah, six kids in two years. So you knew then you wanted, you knew then you liked it, but I never thought for a second you could do this for a living. No. I didn't think for a second. There was no way.

I didn't think, I didn't think any, you can't do this for a living and my dad's a microbiologist and my mom's a, you know, estate attorney and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm going to be in show business. That's what's going to happen. Yeah. I didn't think that was going to happen. No. Eugene, did you think that was going to happen?

I never thought that was going to happen and I spent, the more I, I went through, you know, university, I did a couple of, you know, plays and things in high school. It was high school. I wasn't trying to make people laugh in the family, it wasn't, it wasn't like, you know, I can, I can do that. Let's see if I can do that. But at a certain point in high school, I started writing this little, this little book of odd little things, kind of like, I didn't realize kind of what, what it was reminiscent of until

I read the John Lennon book that came out in 64, Spanier and the Works. Oh yeah. And so it was like, yeah, wordplay and things, you know, like, like weird little things, you know, insect decides, you know, spider, spider, spin your web, clean your cleats and scratch your head, don't eat figs, tomatoes or spaghetti, just lie around and throw confetti, by E. Levy. I put it at the bottom, you know, uh, uh, owed to a Frenchman, we, we, me, no, so tell me this, Pa, come see, come sa, he, he, ha, ha, by E. Levy.

Today they'd put you on Riddlin', they'd put you on a heavy dose of Riddlin', and they would monitor you carefully. And I called the book Poetry Pros and Cons, and then the book was passed around the high school and then people started, started reading it, started reading it, and that was it. They said, oh, this guy's like really funny. And then that was it, and then somebody said, run for president. And then, you know, so I could make these great funny posters and I thought, oh, I could run for president, put all these things up on big posters.

And all the plays I started doing in university, uh, working with Marty and Dave, we all became friends and did a lot of that stuff, never once did I think, this is what I should be doing for a living. It never occurred to me you could do this for a living. No, I, I, I. The only thing I loved to do, and it wasn't until I had to drop out of school for the second time, because I just wasn't going to classes, that I got a, I ended up getting a job on a, on a, on a, on a film.

Ivan Reitman also went to be a master. We were good friends. And so he, I got a job on his first feature. If I hadn't got a job on his first feature, and if I, if, if there was no job opening, I think I got the last job available on his film, which was coffee, the coffee boy, which he didn't want to give me because it only paid 60 bucks a week. If I hadn't got that job, I probably would have stayed in Hamilton and, you know, and working in a tailor shop, two pair of pants, it's called cannibal girls.

That's, well, that's true. Can we look that up? Yeah. Is there another, there's, you did an obscure movie called cannibal girls. Well, cannibal girls was, yeah, 1971, but in, Was it later? Sorry. In university, we actually did kind of a, a, a, a porn-ish kind of a thing.

You did porn in college? Which was kind of a soft, soft, no, I would say soft, artsy kind of thing. Yeah. Porn, we call it. Yes. We were on our way to shoot a kind of a some nude thing on the beat. I wasn't in it. I was, I was, I was, I wasn't in it.

But I was working camera and, and that was the night they landed on the moon. We were on our way and I remember listening to them. What? The night that man landed on the moon. That's right. You were filming a pornographic film. First things first. What's the greater achievement you might ask?

Right, right. Good lord. Yeah. And we all thought it would be the movie. One small something. But it wasn't. It was, it was the landing in the moon. That's the correct, that's all I'm going to think about now when I see that footage

of Neil Armstrong's foot being the surface of the moon. Yes. Me? I mean, it probably has no film in it you perv, just so you could watch some naked people do it. Yeah. Okay. Well, I got all I needed out of this interview.

Me too. I'm frightened now. Did you even know any of this? No, I did not. No, you did not. See, you think you know a guy? Really? Here's my wish.

My wish, and this is a real wish, you are some of the funniest group of people that have ever existed all grew up or came of age knowing each other in Toronto or different areas of Canada. All I really know is Toronto and Vancouver, then there's other areas. Now you're this like revered group of people and you have this great tradition in Canada where they honor you. If you're a great person in the arts, you get this pin and I know this because Martin Short every time I see him has his little pin on his suit and I think you've all been

honored. Yes. And this is what I want. I want that honor. And I'm not from Canada, but I do feel I've done a lot for Canadian comedy and I don't think anyone would notice. We could say that I'm from some outer Saskatchewan, some other province. I could write a letter on your behalf to try and get this thing in motion and say that.

The only reason I want it is it would make Martin Short so fucking good. If I started wearing, if I showed up and I've actually thought about getting, it's a very distinctive little discreet pin that you all have because you're all knights of genius in Canada and I thought, this is this idea I had, I'm kidding about actually getting one of actually ever, I'm not from there, getting in a time machine, but what I'm not kidding about is I do want to go to someone and have a replica made and start wearing it around Marty and just have him notice it and go, what is that and go like, you know, it's incredible.

Because I took my show during the middle of the SARS crisis to Toronto. They just gave it to me. He just gave it to me. And he went, they gave it to you, but you're not, and I went, I know, but they made an exception and they sent it to me through the mail. It's great. He would get so pissed. He would.

He would be enraged. He's so proud. And you could do it. Get him there. It's on your jacket. I wore mine today. Yeah. Why don't you apply for citizenship?

In Canada? Are you Irish? Are you dual? I can't be dual because I think you're... No. It has to be your grandparents. It's not my grandparents. It's my great-grandparents.

Yeah. Same with you. So I miss out. So I can't get the dual citizenship. Then go for the Canadian. Sure. They'll take anyone. Get in line though right now.

That's good. Oh, another quick thing I forgot to ask that I have to ask is that there's a, all my writers adore you guys and one of them who is Canadian says that, and this may be lore and tell me if it's lore or not Eugene, but apparently according to legend, when you used to do improv you had a hard time maintaining an accent and then it would go in and out and the legend is that people would say, say to you in a scene, were you from again, sir? No. And you would start to...

Now I don't know if that's true. That is the legend according to... Is that true? It's news to me. Well. No. Maybe that's the reason this story came up. I was doing scene on the second city stage and it was the last...

It was during an improvisation, we take suggestions, and then we go back and work it out. So they came up with this idea of some kind of British war scene and everybody's taking their parts and I said, I can't, I'm really not good, no, no, no, it'll be fine. And then you do this, you do this, and Eugene, you be the last guy and knock on the door, you can be the British doctor that kind of walks in. I said, I can't do anything. So they start the scene and I wait till everybody is on stage doing their thing and I knew it was the last scene of the night and I just went home.

No! No! Now there's a team player. And there was no knock at the door. The first room in improv. Right. Yeah. That's...

They said you went home, I said, I'm not good at dialects. You were home dreaming of a life in pornography. Well, I've only done it a few times since. I want to thank you sincerely both for being so consistently and brilliantly hilarious for so long and making so many people happy, not least of all myself, and please, next time you come to my home, have the decency to speak to me. I did, I had a lovely conversation, I mean, not lengthy, but it was good, well I'm still intimidated by it.

It was nice, Bob Newhart was there, Eric Eil was there. Yes. And Bob Newhart, hilarious, and then Marty just insulting me constantly. He's become Don Rickles. Was he always Don Rickles? Or did he become Don Rickles? But now he really has just the biggest load of jokes ready to go. I remember like a couple years ago at the Christmas party, thank you, and Marty came

in and said, oh my God, what a home. The wealth, the ostentatious, beautiful wealth, the taste, I don't understand, I've seen your work. Yeah. And he said it a hundred times louder than I just said. He's got a library. Make sure everyone heard out in the yard. Conan, I look at your home, it's so beautiful, it's magnificent, and it's so lovely, and

then I look at the amount of talent you have, and well, it just doesn't match. It's always a delight, but I'm like, literally, and whenever my writers are around and he's going after me, they're so in heaven. No. No, yeah, because they love it. Well, no, because they, yes they can. Because you would fire them, tell the truth. I can't fire anyone.

They have so much dirt on me. Right, Sona? Can I fire any? No. He can't fire anybody. No. You have very little power here. I have very little power at the Conan show.

Wow. Do you swear to stop watching Schitt's Creek? No, no. I'll probably watch even more after having met the two of them. Yeah. I'm sorry. Have you ever watched it behind? I had a time.

Come on. Is that a yes or no? Well, yeah, obviously. She's watched the podcast. Yeah. She loves the colors of the podcast. All right. I love you both.

Well. I know I don't want to make you uncomfortable by saying that, but I really do. You're very dear to me, and this is lovely that you came in and spoke to me. You've always been very, very sweet to us. I love the idea that you always tell us how much you were a fan of SETV. And then all the stuff since. It means a great deal to us, and you're just so sweet about it, and you're so funny. Really?

And such a nice... Why are your jeans arms crossed for that whole lovely speech? You can't see this, but his arms are crossed in a very defensive posture. You're uncomfortable with your emotions, sir. It's called acting. And scene. I'm personally intrigued because we are scheduled to be working here for a while. I don't actually consider this work.

It's a joy, the podcast. But we're supposed to be doing this for a little while, and Sona seems agitated to go, and I'm always intrigued when Sona has to be somewhere, because you don't seem like someone... What do you mean? I've got things to do, I've got places to be. Okay, all right. That's fine.

But what do you have to do? Yeah, where do you have to be? Where do you have to go? I have to go to the cheesecake factory. No, no, wait. No, let me just be clear. This is not a promotion. This is not a promotion.

And you've got your... And you've got your disclosure. My step-brother, my dear step-brother is a general manager of the cheesecake factory. Okay. Okay, but this is not a promotion. No, no, no. We're not getting any money from the cheesecake factory. No.

But... Okay, why do you seem anxious to get to the cheesecake factory? So I have these two friends that I have dinner with occasionally. What are their names? Megan Sinclair and Erica Brown, first and last names, just to make it even more embarrassing for them. Right. And we always get dinner and we think, where should we go eat?

And we'll have a list of these amazing restaurants in LA, and we always just end up going to the cheesecake factory. But listen to what you're saying. LA, like New York, and maybe even more so than New York now, has some of the greatest cuisine, some of the greatest restaurants. Amazing. And you choose always. Always.

The cheesecake factory. We love it. Okay. Can I tell you the thing about the cheesecake factory that I'm suspicious of? Yeah. Too many choices. Oh, it's a novel. And whenever a restaurant says, you want some pizza, you go, yeah, I might like some

pizza. What else you got? You want some Chinese food? All different genres. Yeah. I guess Chinese food. What else you got? You want some sushi?

Oh, wait, sushi too? Maybe. Hey, how about Greek food? Wait, you've got Greek food also? Yeah. Hey, do you want some Mexican food? Mexican food? Every page is a restaurant.

No. And the thing is, I always think, what does that kitchen look like? And the chef must be having a complete collapse, a complete mental and physical collapse. Because it's not like, oh, okay, I got to make, it's like, hey, where's that pizza? The pizza's almost done. Yeah, okay. And how about that rad na with the spicy crab? Yes.

I'm a third of the way through the rad na with the spicy crab. Will you better hurry up? Yeah. And also, make sure you get the vici sois all set. And also make sure that you chop the top off that frozen bottle of champagne with a saber. I mean, how can they offer that much? Like if they just focused on a few things, maybe the food would be.

Now you can tell by the way, now you can tell this is not a paid promotion for Cheesecake Factory. Although I love Cheesecake Factory. And also, the wait there is long. I mean, we're waiting there for like an hour and a half to eat there. And that's how long you would wait in a nice restaurant. You know why? You know why you're waiting an hour and a half?

Why? Because an ambulance is taking the chef to the hospital and they're finding another chef that knows how to cook 750,000 types of cuisine instantly. That's why. I don't know. Okay. Where's our paella? Huh?

Where's our paella? I said, I want a pepperoni and shrimp pizza and I want paella. And then I want a flaming bowl of tapioca pudding with haddock on the bottom. And then I want some Gruyere cheese that's frozen in an aspic wedge. And it's all sitting atop a flaming baked Alaska. Where the fuck is it? I've been waiting six minutes. I want my fucking nine different types of completely weird cuisine.

It's true. I love it. That's insane. And that brown bread they serve is really good. Brown bread. Yeah, they have that brown bread. That stuff is good. I'll have a whole meal of brown bread.

Well, that would be easier on the chef. If you just came, here's what I'm worried about. I'm going to ask the people listening right now to go to your nearest cheesecake factory. And again, this is not a promotion, but I want you to go and I want you to order as many disparate things on the menu as you can. Try and find the nine types of food that have nothing to do with each other. Order them all at the same time and say, I need them immediately because I'm due for heart surgery.

Because we had this debate about if you went in and ordered one of everything on the menu, how could they possibly do it? Because there's so much. And I asked my stepbrother and he said we could and we have when they've had to do it. Stepbrother's just talking out his ass. No, he's a solid guy. Your stepbrother loves to go around and say, I work at the Cheesecake Factory. And guess what?

If you can think of it, we can make it instantly. Sorry, I'm sorry. That's your brother-in-law. Sorry. All right. Well, listen, Sona, you're off to the Cheesecake Factory. This is not a paid endorsement. Yep.

And folks, remember what I said, order everything you can and order every single kind of thing and see if they can bring it all. And according to Matt Gorley's stepbrother, you can. He'll bring it. They'll bring it instantly. Whatever you want. Telecom sent you. Yeah.

You want caviar, a caviar taco. And you want a puffer fish that's sitting inside in a clare. And you also want some spaghetti and meatballs. But the meatballs have to have Russian coins in the center of them. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Sona Movesessian and Conan O'Brien as himself. Produced by me, Matt Gorley. Produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. The show is engineered by Will Beckton. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.